moogle slips overflow

[Dsriker]

Anyone else getting bogged down by the tons of moogle slips don't get me wrong i love how much space they save but the number of them keeps getting larger. why can't we have a single slip and choose what type of item to withdraw from it instead of 12+ slips for diffrent types of gear most ppl have 10 or more jobs so the store gear you don't use often argument isn't as valid as it was when they were first added for me its the only way i can be useful to my 4 man static we change our jobs based off the situation. so for us the slips are a must.

[Kincard]

Two things:
1. I think it has to do with how much data is allotted for each item, setting a limit on each one, which is why they did add new items onto slips at one point (VW stuff onto slip 3 or whatever)
2. Imagine having to scroll through a single list of 400-500+ items. It's already annoying the way it is right now.

[Demon6324236]

I think his idea is basically you trade slip, it asks you what kind of gear, you pick from that list then it shows you that kind of gear. For instance you trade the slip and get a menu like this

>Remove item from slip
>Check Storable items
>Cancel

after you pick one of the 1st options it would goto a menu like this

>Salvage
>Nyzul Isle
>Einherjar
>Assault
>Abjuration
>Tu'Lia
>Lumoria
>Limbus
>Campaign
>Zeni
>Voidwatch
>Artifact
>Artifact+1
>Relic
>Relic+1
>Empyrean
>Empyrean+1
>Empyrean+2
>Scenario
>Relic-1
>Relic+2

or something similar, and then to a list of gear under that catagory once a catagory is selected.


Not a bad idea, however I am perfectly happy with slips as they are now, saves alot of space holding the items they do in 1 slot than if I had to hold the items separately. Also I doubt that they could easily tie that much info to a single item.

[svengalis]

There needs to be a moogle to hold our slips lol.

[Fynlar]

I'd greatly prefer having to carry 10-14 slips rather than (rough estimate) maybe 500 pieces of gear.

And since it's actually impossible to hold that many things, obviously there would have been things I wouldn't have been able to keep otherwise.

[Okipuit]

...why can't we have a single slip and choose what type of item to withdraw from it instead of 12+ slips for diffrent types of gear...

Dsriker,

It's an understandable request. However, as some of you came to this conclusion, there is a limit to how many items each moogle slip category can carry. Therefore, we have separated these slips into multiple categories for organization and memory purposes.

[FrankReynolds]

Dsriker,

It's an understandable request. However, as some of you came to this conclusion, there is a limit to how many items each moogle slip category can carry. Therefore, we have separated these slips into multiple categories for organization and memory purposes.

They seem to have the opposite of the desired effect. It would be cool if each slip could hold all the JS items for one job and then you could have a couple general purpose ones for other non job specific gear. Maybe even a slip that would hold any old item you choose.

Really though, you guys should stop working on these slips and come up with something better. The slips are almost as big of a pain in the ass as muling gear. Can't you just charge us a buck a month for a spare character that does nothing but sit in our mog house holding gear for us so that we don't have to go through all this crap to change jobs?

[BigPapaBlueJay]

Dsriker,

It's an understandable request. However, as some of you came to this conclusion, there is a limit to how many items each moogle slip category can carry. Therefore, we have separated these slips into multiple categories for organization and memory purposes.

You should totally make a new slip for unaugmented AF2+2.

[Fynlar]

ITT: People complaining about amazing timesaving, spacesaving feature that we were lucky to get at all in the first place


The slips are almost as big of a pain in the ass as muling gear.

It's really nowhere even close, unless you somehow absolutely suck at trading items to an npc and selecting things you want from a list. But hey, if you think they're comparable, you feel free to keep paying for those mules.

[Komori]

Being able to hold 14 items to hold hundreds? It sounds so awful in comparison, they should do away with them.

[Nawesemo]

Being able to hold 14 items to hold hundreds? It sounds so awful in comparison, they should do away with them.

Exactly, we're only spoiled if we don't know we're spoiled, some, are grateful though :)

I do love my moogles.

[Rosalie]

>.> I live and die by these slips. There's no way in hell I'd be able to get by without them anymore.

[Motenten]

With allowance for the extra two jobs, we can say that, for example, slip 10 needs to be able to hold 5 * 22 = 110 items.

Slip 4 needs to be able to hold 6 * 22 items (5 armor, 1 weapon, assuming the new jobs get their standard AF set), so 132 items altogether (though only 120 right now). Similar for relic: 5 armor + 1 accessory per job.

Since that requires an on/off bit for each item stored, we know we need at least 4 32-bit fields to store all the present items, and potentially an additional field for handling the new jobs' armor.

If you tried to store all the armor from all 13 slips in one item, it would need 52 to 65 32-bit fields. Somewhat excessive. Granted, some of them won't need the full expanse of that, but you still need room to expand (eg: can the new NeoLimbus gear be stored in ticket 2? will we be adding all the new Salvage gear to ticket 1 (which has to store both all the sets and all the component pieces, plus Nyzul, etc)?).

Most games of this type might describe item objects with maybe 20 fields at best (probably less), some of which will be reserved for things like item name, icon, status, stack size and so forth.

We also know things like, each piece of armor is limited to storing 5 unique pieces of information (not counting augments). That implies it's probably limited to 5 32-bit fields for 'general data'.

Similarly, it doesn't matter if you have a single ticket that lets you access different storage 'compartments'; you still have flag all those stored items individually, which means you're back at 5 fields per ticket type, and needing 60+ such fields.


In principal it seems like a fairly easy fix: just make an item with tons of storage data on it. In practice, not so much. That item has to be understood by, and tracked/stored/retrieved by, the underlying engine that's been programmed with the data structure design of everything in the game. Introducing something entirely new means not only having to adjust every function that such an object could go through or be manipulated by, but also the memory pressures of storing such objects. The easiest adjustment being to just expand the size of the base object, if you had to triple the size of the data structure, you pretty much just tripled the memory requirements for a huge chunk of the game for a fairly minimal benefit (most objects won't be using all that new empty space), and figuring out how to convert all -existing- objects to the new one, should such a changeover occur.


A different trick would depend on whether the game has the concept of 'inside'. In some other games, if you have a bag to put stuff in, the bag itself is an object, and 'contains' the other items put inside it. You can do fancy trickery by putting one object inside another, but not allowing the player to actually see inside. So, you have a 'global' ticket that holds the 13 individual tickets inside it, and use the flags on the global ticket to indicate which individual tickets are available.

I suspect that's not possible, though, due to the way inventory is managed in the game. The data on each of the sub-tickets would still need to be managed, which means the game has to be aware of them when moving things around, which means it probably runs up against the whole 80*2 item memory limit from the PS2.


.. I think there was some point to this post, but... whatever, just solidifying the probable basis for Okipuit's post.

[Kari]

IMO change slips to be job-specific.
I'd much rather hang on to slips for the jobs I play, and be able to easily manage my gear.

I play ~5 jobs and counting.
When I want to swap to DNC...

NOW:
Store everything related to current job. Cry as I hold on to unaugmented Relic +2
Take out DNC Artifact gear from one slip.
Take out DNC Relic gear from another slip.
Take out DNC Empyrean Accessories from another slip.
Take out DNC Empyrean +2 gear from another slip.
Take out Thaumas gear from another slip.

How it should be:
Take out all DNC gear with one slip.
Take out Thaumas gear with another slip.

There would be more slips, but the average player would be using less, and EVERYONE gets an easier time with the NPC.
Tons of other ideas floating around, one way or another, the Porter Moogle System could be done better.
I also hate that SE is afraid to rework anything.

[Komori]

How would that really be any better? Because then for people who store gear or play all jobs or most of them, they'd have to carry the same amount of up to 20 slips instead of 14?

I don't mind that I have to trade 4 slips to gear up a job, to me. Saying that "I'm tired of having to trade so many slips is so awful" is kind of lazy. Considering how much the slips save you in inventory, I'd rather have 80 slips take up one full bag of inventory than to have to try and make due without slips or without more to do things like accept loose abyssean and voidwatch specific gear, and unaugmented relic, and magian weapons.

[Godofgods]

Being able to hold 14 items to hold hundreds? It sounds so awful in comparison, they should do away with them.

I agree. Their might be quite a few slips, but considering the vast amount of equip they can store, your winning out ten-fold.

On a side note, your only going to get a slip if you have something you can store with it. And even if you only store a single piece for each slip you get, your inventory still equals out the same. Two pieces, you save room. 10-100 pieces, and still complaining? seriously?

[Godofgods]

I don't mind that I have to trade 4 slips to gear up a job, to me. Saying that "I'm tired of having to trade so many slips is so awful" is kind of lazy.

+10

I think ppl have just become too accustomed to the easy of play we are all used to now. Even the best things, like these slips, are being targeted...

[HimuraKenshyn]

Back in my day we had to log to a mule and d box gear both ways. The slips are the best thing they have I rather swap 4 slips then to gear 1 per job and gear set that number would be insane to think about hurts my head. The biggest pain I still have is the number of seals I have to carry to complete sets I am still working on ><;;

[Riggs]

I find it funny that people are prepared to come in here and say how great a system is that is clearly flawed. I want to keep my gear in my mog house where it belongs. The fact that this cannot happen is frankly not good enough, i, like everyone else pays to play this game its not a free mmorpg where you could expect some things to be slightly shoody but not in a game we pay for.

I don't care there is a memory issue, thats not my concern, my concern is that i PAY for this game so it bloody well better work right and if that means re-wright the entire code my answer is so what get on and do it. And as long as people keep coming in here posting crap like how lucky we are that SE are fiving us a half backed service then thats what they will continue to give us.

[Crimson_Slasher]

As a note to Motenten, Slip #8 stores all NQ empyreon armor as well as accessories. With 5 visible pieces and 3 accessories, that totals 8 items per job. 8x20=160. That fits within the 80+80 limits, though it DOES present a possible problem once the Adoulin jobs are added, raising the number needing to be held to 178. Wonder how they will resolve that little problem...

[Nawesemo]

I find it funny that people are prepared to come in here and say how great a system is that is clearly flawed. I want to keep my gear in my mog house where it belongs. The fact that this cannot happen is frankly not good enough, i, like everyone else pays to play this game its not a free mmorpg where you could expect some things to be slightly shoody but not in a game we pay for.

I don't care there is a memory issue, thats not my concern, my concern is that i PAY for this game so it bloody well better work right and if that means re-wright the entire code my answer is so what get on and do it. And as long as people keep coming in here posting crap like how lucky we are that SE are fiving us a half backed service then thats what they will continue to give us.

don't like it don't pay.

[Demon6324236]

Well in a few ways SE sounds like they are trying to break the current barriers. More recast timers, more spells/abilities, more inventory, wonder how much they will break the limits, so we can move this game forward again!

[x_loto]

I find it funny that a potential 478 slots of regular inventory isn't enough for you. You have your Gobbiebag, Sack, Satchel, Safe, minus 2 slots for the right furniture to max out Storage, and Locker. Assuming you use all 22 jobs and you need, say, 16 pieces per job, that's 352 used. Let's say you want to keep your Gobbiebag free (I would), that still leaves 46 slots to store whatever. If you like to collect, or you want even more pieces of armor, or just extra free space, Moogle Slips.

So, what you're saying is you don't like a system that expands your inventory beyond an already ridiculous amount. Congratulations. Let us reprogram the entire inventory system for you. Or not. The system isn't bugged, and although it may take a few steps, it works. It doesn't need to be fixed.

[FrankReynolds]

I'm sure all you slip lovers operate your computers entirely from the command line because mice and GUI interfaces are for lazy people right? I'm sure you don't take the lazy route and use macros, or warp spells or *shudder* chocobo's...

Hauling bags of cement is work. Thumbing through hundreds of poorly organized items on various tickets / NPCs is just unnecessary tedium. If you honestly think that you have good work ethics because you enjoy rearranging inventory in a video game, you are probably stupid or crazy or both. Get over yourself. Your linkshell buddies aren't sitting around going "man, that <insert name> sure knows how to organize his gear! I'm so glad we invited him to our shell. We're gonna win every event now!".

Storage should be transparent. Organizing Items doesn't add a single bit of value to the game. It's a necessary evil and as such it should be as convenient as it can possibly be.

[Fynlar]

IMO change slips to be job-specific.

Ugh, please no.


I find it funny that people are prepared to come in here and say how great a system is that is clearly flawed. I want to keep my gear in my mog house where it belongs. The fact that this cannot happen is frankly not good enough, i, like everyone else pays to play this game its not a free mmorpg where you could expect some things to be slightly shoody but not in a game we pay for.

I don't care there is a memory issue, thats not my concern, my concern is that i PAY for this game so it bloody well better work right and if that means re-wright the entire code my answer is so what get on and do it. And as long as people keep coming in here posting crap like how lucky we are that SE are fiving us a half backed service then thats what they will continue to give us.

It's ok if you're a little kid and can't understand these kinds of things yet. (Most of) the rest of us understand that problems sometimes have to be worked around in atypical ways and paying for something doesn't make this issue automatically go away.

I don't consider the porter service something half-baked at all. It's saved me far more space than even adding five more "Mog Lockers" would have and is a step far beyond anything SE had put out before with regard to storage space.

[Demon6324236]

The only flaw I have ever seen in the Storage Slip function is you can not tell directly what is on the slips while out in the field. For instance I need BRD hand seals, but I have a absolutely shitty memory, leading me to often forget this, so when they are up for grabs, I have no idea if I need BRD hands, or if I already have them, so I often drop them/pass them. Past that, it costs nearly no gil, I need never expand it, they each hold many items, they say what items can be stored on them so I know how they are organized easily, and you cant drop or lose them while they have items on them. Overall they are massively effective, small, and easy ways to store items.

[Asymptotic]

I want a storage slip for Abjurations.

[Demon6324236]

Which ones?
http://img.bluegartr.com/wiki/6/6c/Storage_Slip_02_description.png
Which holds...
Koenig Schaller / Koenig Cuirass / Koenig Handschuhs / Koenig Diechlings / Koenig Schuhs / Kaiser Schaller / Kaiser Cuirass / Kaiser Handschuhs / Kaiser Diechlings / Kaiser Schuhs / Adaman Celata / Adaman Hauberk / Adaman Mufflers / Adaman Breeches / Adaman Sollerets / Armada Celata / Armada Hauberk / Armada Mufflers / Armada Breeches / Armada Sollerets / Shura Zunari Kabuto / Shura Togi / Shura Kote / Shura Haidate / Shura Sune-Ate / Shura Zunari Kabuto +1 / Shura Togi +1 / Shura Kote +1 / Shura Haidate +1 / Shura Sune-Ate +1 / Zenith Crown / Dalmatica / Zenith Mitts / Zenith Slacks / Zenith Pumps / Zenith Crown +1 / Dalmatica +1 / Zenith Mitts +1 / Zenith Slacks +1 / Zenith Pumps +1 / Crimson Mask / Crimson Scale Mail / Crimson Finger Gauntlets / Crimson Cuisses / Crimson Greaves / Blood Mask / Blood Scale Mail / Blood Finger Gauntlets / Blood Cuisses / Blood Greaves / Shadow Helm / Shadow Breastplate / Shadow Gauntlets / Shadow Cuishes / Shadow Sabatons / Shadow Hat / Shadow Coat / Shadow Cuffs / Shadow Trews / Shadow Clogs / Valkyrie's Helm / Valkyrie's Breastplate / Valkyrie's Gauntlets / Valkyrie's Cuishes / Valkyrie's Sabatons / Valkyrie's Hat / Valkyrie's Coat / Valkyrie's Cuffs / Valkyrie's Trews / Valkyrie's ClogsFor Abj gear, unless you mean newer ones.

[Fynlar]

I want a storage slip for Abjurations.

I'm pretty sure by that he meant exactly what he said. A storage slip for abjurations. Not abjuration gear.

I don't think they'd do it, but honestly I wouldn't say it's a terrible idea. It's not much different from them making a slip solely for -1 relic gear, in my eyes.

[Demon6324236]

Perhaps I read it wrong, in which case I have to say that is somewhat awkward, however understandable.

[Rubicant82]

in response to the whole slip for Abjurations instead of another slip, why not make the one of the NPCs near or even the one that un-curses the items for you hold them. Kind of like the ABC/Seal NPCs. That way we can get them out of our inventory (because lord knows I have a ton of them also) but we are not making more slips for "disposable" items. I think that the slip system is great, with all the current jobs 99, plus having almost all of the empy+1/+2, relic, AF, and various other gear for the jobs it leaves my mog house for the items that can't be stored, plus my sacks are designated for weapons, pop items, commonly used armor, etc. I do wish they would add the +2 (non augmented) relic armor to the +2 relic armor slip. that is only 200 items on a slip, which would be within the limits.

We are told "There are limits" but we are not told what that limit is, and even if we were told "The limit is 100 items per slip" we would want an explanation as to why it is that, why is it not more etc...

Slips have been a great addition to the game IMO they have let players collect gear that normally would have been overlooked due to inventory issues, and thusly if we could store more on other slips I personal would not have a problem with an inventory full of slips to hold gear. 30, 40, 50 slips, thats fine, because that is inventory +XXX*#of slips, which is a win in my opinion.

[saevel]

We are told "There are limits" but we are not told what that limit is, and even if we were told "The limit is 100 items per slip" we would want an explanation as to why it is that, why is it not more etc...


It would be a technical description if they did. The easiest way to explain MMO's is that they are giant databases, typically three or four databases per "world server". Records in these databases have set lengths, each item in the game is a record, each character is a record, your inventory is a record, every monster, every zone and so forth. That slip in your inventory is just a single item # but when you trade it to the moogle it use's that to locate a record in the database that contains all the items stored on it. That record has a finite length that is determined when they first programmed it in.

FFXI's server setup is very old, and I'm sure it's not a very well designed at that. Rebuilding it would cost about the same as developing a new game, their attempt at that was known as FFXIV, safe to say that won't happen to FFXI any time soon. So we're limited by their design from 2001.

[Kincard]

While FrankReynolds is being pretty blunt, I agree with the general thrust of what he's saying, in that XI has probably the worst interface of any P2P MMO on the market. It really shouldn't take 10-20 minutes for me to put in all the gear on my current job and then pull out all the things for my other job. If they can discard the porter system for an even more efficient system in the future the same way they basically ditched storage NPCs (The guys who store stuff in entire sets, remember those guys?) for the porter moogle system, I'll be more than happy to take it, even if it takes a while to do. In fact, I'd be more than happy to actually pay an extra dollar a month if it meant another 2 or 3 mog safes on my current character just because of the time it'd save (Not like we didn't all already pay $10 for the token just for the satchel...don't lie, that's totally why you bought it!).

Until then, though...could you at least put a Porter Moogle in the Mog House or make it so that our House Moogle can handle slips. You do it on the test servers, after all; is there a problem with making them do it on live?

[Logandor]

Not to say the moogle slips were bad or a lot of trouble but no offense intended but I was pretty disappointed in the slip for voidwatch items and the one for storing event reward items.

Is there any chance at all that those two slips will have some more items added to the list or nope?

[Kristal]

As a note to Motenten, Slip #8 stores all NQ empyreon armor as well as accessories. With 5 visible pieces and 3 accessories, that totals 8 items per job. 8x20=160. That fits within the 80+80 limits, though it DOES present a possible problem once the Adoulin jobs are added, raising the number needing to be held to 178. Wonder how they will resolve that little problem...

Regular storage limits do not apply here. Those items have to be loaded all at once, with their icons and descriptions.
Moogle slips only need to track wether they contain an item or not, so you'd only need 22 bytes.

[Reiterpallasch]

Want storage issues to go away? Work a miracle and convince SE to stop making vastly situational gear, and instead make gear good enough that once you put it on, it stays on until you obtain something better.

It would never happen though, since somebody somewhere would rage over the fact that their hard to get piece of gear that they wear 5% of the time is suddenly useless, because it was replaced by an upgrade.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

There needs to be a moogle to hold our slips lol.I vote for a slip slip. Trade your slip-slip to the moogle to get your slips back so you can trade them to the moogle to get your gear back. Then! You can trade your slips and your slip-slip back tothe moogle! ^^
You should totally make a new slip for unaugmented AF2+2.They should totaly make a slip that can hold unaugmented relic+2 instead.