The Unoffical "Let's Fix Red mage" Thread

[Trangnai]

Before you post please, read this entire post, as well at the rest of the posts in the thread to ensure your point has not already been addressed.

Please try to stay on topic and keep out of flame wars. You're opinion is welcomed but de-railing the purpose of this thread is not. I'm sure everyone who posts in the thread want to get the attention of the devs on this issue. Trolling and De-railing won't achieve that.

Let's face it, we all know rdm is broken, and not in a good way. The way the game has evolved in the last few years have made the class less and less relevant with every patch. The Job Class was given miniscule improvements while other classes were altered and improved so much that there entire roles changed.

Red Mage has been stuck in Limbo due to a huge slew of reasons. We need a breath of fresh air, for some of us, that may just be leveling another job entirely. But some people have devoted alot of time to there rdm and want the class to be relevant again.

Most people, and I'm sure you will agree wish for Red Mage to ether fill a specific role, or be a hybrid like blu, nin, dnc, sch and many others. The problem stems not only from its diversity but the fact that it lacks the tools to preform the role, be it a spell, trait, gear, or maybe the monster it would be most useful on is immune to there spells. There is alot of issues to be addressed.

I can go on and on for days about the issues people already know about, but I wish to see other players state there mind first, how do you feel about Red Mage and it's current role in the game? What can we do to fix it? What issues do you wish to see addressed?

Community Team please give us answers and help us get a once great job class back on its feet again. Players I look forward to hearing your thoughts and Ideas for fixes.

[ManaKing]

Enhancing needed to scale better past 75, we needed some job traits, and IDK enfeebling shouldn't have been written out of the game.

What's left to do? Not much really. Reason: Devs

Previous to the level increase, Devs considered RDM very powerful (debatable whether it was or not).

During Aby, Devs still considered RDM very powerful, even though no one that actually played the game would agree with them.

Temper was acquired and the Devs thought that was enough even though it only addressed 1 of 3 sides of RDM. Cure skill was readjusted favorably for all jobs, including RDM, so 2/3 sides were then ok-ish. BUT then they decided to adjust enfeebling magic to do something, but not really do anything, since it fixed absolutely nothing about enfeebling. It was and still is pathetic. RDM is still at 2/3 currently.

We ask for more utility from either enfeebling and enhancing magic, and we are told in very smug or snarky explanations about how AoE isn't for RDM natively and how Gravity II works. NA RDMs get the distinct impression that neither the NA correspondents or the Devs they represent have any clue how RDM works and don't appreciate the lack of transparency involving RDMs future.

We get a new BAUS. Devs have idea to adjust how many spells can go in the game. I personally am reserved but hopeful. It has the potential to fix the nuke/enfeeble side of RDM. It could also not. No one still thinks RDM is powerful or even average compared to most jobs. New administration has made no actual statement on where they believe RDM in relation to other jobs. If they think RDM is a very powerful job again, we are screwed.

There is no point in making yet another list on what we reasonably, or unreasonably, want until they express any interest in fixing our job or if it is even broken in the first place. Dev perception is our worst enemy.

[Trangnai]

I can agree entirely with this post, not to mention however these "fixes" or additions were minor at best.

A big issue is End Game NMs are resistant or immune to most of the enfeebles we can cast. This means the enfeeblement role is moot, our enhancing role is moot cause most of our spells are on par with whm who has AoE versions of most, The versions we have are self cast only, or the buff from subbable versions are minor and a party would be better going for a bigger overall boost to another role then having a slot reserved for one spell. (refresh)

When I play rdm, I literately feel like the gap between ourselfs and other jobs has greatly worsened from what it was 4 years ago, regardless of the role. If I'm in a party, it makes me feel kind of worthless and that I would be better off just leveling another job. But then again most EG content I do I end up on blu.

RDM just has little to nothing to bring to the table, it doesn't even have many procs for abyssea and voidwatch. While the dev team has there issues we as a community need to work together with them to find a fix. not fight with them or get upset with there responses or responses from others. but take the time to do the math in our head to help find a work around for issues and overall help Red Mage evolve into a new class that has a role in End Game content.

[Ophannus]

Silence= Most NMs are immune
Sleep=Most NMs are immune
Gravity=Most NMs are immune
Break=Most NMs are immune
Bind=Most NMs are immune

That leaves us with Slow/Paralyze/Addle/Dia/Blind. That would be like making most NM's immune to 2/3rds of all elemental magic. Paralyze is hard to land and even if it does land, the proc rate sucks on NMs. Slow is worthless since a mob's regular attacks are easily mitigated, its the TP moves that destroy players, not the autoattacks; slow has very little value. Addle is kind of cool, makes spells a bit easier to stun since the window of casting time is a bit longer.

RDM should get an Inhibit TP spell that stacks with Penance, a spell that gives a TP-Penalty(opposite of TP Bonus), it would reduce the power of TP moves, or a spell that increase the amount of TP a mob needs to use a TP move from 100% to 200% (but the TP move's power is still counted as if it was a 100% TP move) thus it would take a bit longer for a mob to use a TP move. A magic defense down or Plague spell would be neat too.

In order to make Addle somewhat more potent and useful, could it also double or even triple the MP cost of spells for the target?

[Emitremmus]

I agree that RDM needs some twerking to get put back on the table in terms of end-game, but as a mostly casual player (I still do plenty of endgame with a shell, but I ultimately log in to relax), I would like to see more canonical RDM like abilities and spells.

X-Magic / Doublecast / Quadra-magic
This was always a cool ability that sparked my interest in the older FF games in the series. While I understand RDM isn't the best nuker to begin with, this would still be a fun ability to be had. I ASSUME (that means I don't know the mechanics of the code that is used and how this could be implemented. Just putting that out there before people start yelling about it.) that it could be implemented just like Double Shot for RNG. Perhaps even a double-attack trait for magic that has a percent chance to proc.

Melee
I know what you're thinking. RDM + melee? luluzluzlulzulz. No. RDM is a swordsman as much as a PLD is a swordsman. They should definetely have a buff to their physical prowess. Whether this is through a buff to enspell damage/effect or through straight skill increase.

Parry
They're a swordsman, and so typically a swordsman would parry. I think it would be pretty rad for them to get a trait that ISN'T dual wield, but allows them to equip a parrying dagger in the off-hand. Think of it like how a strap functions for 2-handed weapons. The off-hand dagger would not attack, but greatly increase the chances of parrying.

Fast-cast
RDM is supposed to be the king of fast cast. Quick magic could be a trait native to RDM to compete with SCH's abilities. I understand some jobs can use equipment or atmas to utilize this, but a RDM could have a much higher proc chance with this.

Enspells
Since my Mystic Knight idea was kind of thrown in to Rune Fencer, I think RDM would benefit from En-spells with different effects. At the very least a 3 minute or so ability that adds an additional effect to en-spells along the lines of Enstone: adds additional effect Slow, Enthunder: additional effect Stun.

Crowd control
RDM could also benefit to have more crowd control resources. Perhaps an improved Bind. Old school enfeebles like Confuse. An intimidation spell, or a spell to lock an enemy's focus on the RDM while they kite it. (Old school Kirin kiting ftmfw).

Okay, I forgot to submit this earlier this morning. Forgive me if someone else happens to mention something like I have. Probably shouldn't get in a FFXI forum at work.

[Trangnai]

X-Magic / Doublecast / Quadra-magic
I sadly say I believe Spontaneity will be the closest we ever get to this. The ability to have a spell insta-cast 100% of the time then be able to prep another spell right after is nice, however alot of people agree that the recast is a little long, while I understand allowing us to use this ability constantly may be a little overpowered. I don't see why, if they ever add new job merits lowing the recast of this a little can't be an option for those who wish to insta-cast more often.

Melee
I agree that the melee role of the Red Mage has been greatly neglected, and if improved properly we could see a great change in rdm's role in EG content. Enspell buffs and better gear access are the first things that come to mind, the primary focus should be to allow additions to our support role while on the front lines. Not only make our DDing more potent (because its not just a little behind, its decades behind, I don't mind not being as strong as DDs but we need a boost) but also add debuffs through enspells or other means that require us on the front line to access, however don't make that our only option as a role, let backline rdms have some fun too.

Parry
Nice idea, but I wonder how they would implement it, having access to tactical parry would be nice as well, and alot more useful then shield mastery.

Fast-cast
The one place I havent seen many issues is our spell casting speed, this however doesn't mean we cast faster then other jobs. While I don't feel any boost to fast cast is needed. It seems like SCH gets a lil too much of our casting ability. However if this is only throught the use a Stratigems I don't see an issue as SCHs have to be careful on how they choose to use them do to resource management.

Enspells
This is something I can get onboard with, This makes rdms enspells a viable debuff resource to have on the front lines, I would also like to see a buff to our overall enspell damage. Seeing as we have half of our non AF JSE buffing enspell damage but not providing anything good outside of that. If enspells our where our damage output is supposed to be coming from buff it by giving us a trait that adds additional damage.

Crowd control
Yes, alot of people still wish to have rdm in this role, but its not useful due to lack of resources and requiring a spacific sub job to fill this role. Access to Bindga and Graviga would be nice, even if we still must limit Sleepga to /blm.



Alot of people argue over weather rdm should have a front line or a back line role, I feel that rdm would benifit from the ability to have both, depending on the situation. however this requires us to have destinct resources that are dependent on ether the front or the back line. and the party should be able to adjust to whats needed/play style.

If a Situation arisies where rdm is better on one role then another they should be able to switch and play the best role they can play in that point in time. This diversity would allow players to plan ahead and use rdm instead of having a dedicated DD switch to a Dedicated Mage and so on and so forth. At least thats part of how I see it. For example, blu is able to switch roles simply by swaping spells, there only penalty is a 1min cooldown to cast there spells, while they get access to all other pros immediately.

[Scuro]

*about to say something, but just shakes his head and walks away*
There are like 50 of these, and none of them turn up results, no point. Just go revive one of the other 50 How to fix RDM topics.

[Trangnai]

*about to say something, but just shakes his head and walks away*
There are like 50 of these, and none of them turn up results, no point. Just go revive one of the other 50 How to fix RDM topics.

Yes, and it's posts like these that make those threads a lackluster. gibberish filled mess. please read the opening statements. I would like to be able to form a discusion that dosn't focus on one key point or get entirely derailed by trolls that care less, like you. If people can see the post and we can keep it popular well managed and maintanied we may be able to make some progress. even thought I doubt the devs will directly say there considering our ideas.

Just for the record I don't want rdm to be blu or vise versa, but both being hybrids blu is one of the most common comparisons to rdm in terms of play style, thought blu is refined by the way the player wants to configure it, a blank slate that can pretty much allow you to make your own class.

Red Mage however is not nor would ever be player defined, but could have many roles like blu does now. A skilled blu can play every role except alliance healer, and thats because our healing spells are limited to party only. This is the concept that a rdm should have always been able to preform from most rdms prospectives. having two jobs that preform simular roles but still are able to bring something unquie to the table is not a bad thing, its just that rdm falls behind every role so much thats the issue.

[Shadax]

Ohlookitsthisthreadagain.jpg

But seriously, the deal with RDM is that it is a job that does a little bit of everything pretty well. The problem is that when you can level a job from 1-99 in a few days, nobody wants a job that that can do something "pretty well"... they only want a job that is the best at something, or at the very least can do the job better than RDM - which is pretty much all of them.

Need nukes? Get a BLM or SCH.
Need healing? Get a WHM or SCH.
Need enhancing? Get a BRD.
Need crowd control? Get a BLM or BRD.
Need refresh? Not with atmas, temps, JA's, RDM sub, etc.
Need enfeebling? Lol, what's that?
Need melee? Don't get me started.

Let's face it, the only thing RDM is the best at is enfeebling and unless SE makes it so that more than a handful of enfeebling spells can even land on NM's, RDM will continue to linger in this "pretty good" limbo that nobody wants. I will say that as misguided as they are on RDM, at least they made some effort. The Immunobreak system had some potential, but... well, we all know how that turned out. I really don't expect another attempt until after they figure out how to add more spells into the game and even then I won't hold my breath.

[Emitremmus]

My ideas were merely suggestions. The only thing I don't like seeing any of you say is that you don't expect something to happen. At this point with a new expansion coming out that everyone was CERTAIN couldn't happen, I would say anything is possible anymore.

I agree that our main focus has always been enfeebling, and that is where our strength should lie. But at this point, being able to enfeeble an NM is going to make or break the battle. Being able to have a higher tier slow/para/blind/etc. is going to make things too easy, whereas the slot a RDM would take up could be filled with Resolution to further destroy the enemy.

When RDM gets "fixed", I think we will see a huge focus on the melee and enspell side of things. Back in the day they added Composure to address this slightly. Perhaps a new JA that takes the focus off of casting and enhances the swordplay abilities of RDM, while adding penalties to spells.

[Demon6324236]

Admittedly as it has been pointed out to me before, its unlikely we will be getting any JAs or Traits that effect our melee, we seem to get spells that do that, and well. I mean for instance we didn't get Double Attack as a trait, we got Temper which is far better, originally its only 5%, an average RDM might have it at around 10%, however if you have a really good Enhancing Magic build, it can hit 20%. If we had something very similar, or even the same, for Attack/Accuracy, you could see RDMs on the front lines today. The main thing past that which holds RDM back would be gear, I constantly point out how RDM gets the mage side of gear, and is left out of the melee sets like Thaumas & Athos, which would really flush out our melee alot more thanks to the increased options & stats we would have.



In my opinion these are the 3 things RDM needs to fix the job.

A) Add Brave & Faith.

Brave & Faith should scale with Enhancing Magic, however they should not stack & should have a fairly long cast time, such as a cast time of 15 or so seconds(11ish seconds after lv99 Fast Cast trait). They should scale as Temper does, starting at 5% with low skill, and reaching 20% at 500 skill. Brave should increase Attack/Accuracy, where as Faith should increase Magic Attack/Magic Accuracy. Doing this allows RDM to be fairly potent in both forms of combat, however not at the same time. Neither spell should have negative effects, and neither spell should be able to be cast on others. The only real problem with this I see is that the Magic Attack Bonus from Faith, may cause worry in SCH & BLM. However RDM is limited to T4 spells, and I doubt BLM's better Magic Attack with T5 Nukes, or SCH's weather bonus with T5 Nukes, would be threated by RDM, even with the maximum effect.

B) Add more gear options.

RDM currently is restricted to mainly mage gear, however we do occasionally get melee gear as well. The magic gear for RDM is great, and grows alot, however when you take a look at other jobs, RDM can feel as though its physical power is forgotten. Emp gear gave many jobs massive boosts to many stats, including but not limited to, Haste, Attack, Accuracy, and skill of their main, or secondary weapons. RDM did not get this, RDM had the same treatment as WHM, BLM, and SCH, a set of JSE gear that focused completely on nothing but magic. The Estoqueur gear is by no means bad, but it is only for magic, being stacked with MND, INT, Magic Accuracy, and Magic Attack, along with magic skills. When looking at what other jobs got, this leaves me feeling as though our melee was forgotten, and even with more recent gear giving RDM some melee options, there are still massive shortages in gear we do need, such as WS gear like Athos, or TP gear, like Thaumas. Events which are actually great for gear on RDM, often are not for other jobs, such as Arch-Limbus, and Meeble Burrows, which offer some good gear for RDM's melee side, but little for other jobs, making it hard to get help with these things, especially as a job that is often left out of events, and has to solo things itself.

C) Increase Skill levels, and make current skill levels more meaningful.

We all know RDM has the highest rating in Enfeebling Magic, the highest skill in Enhancing Magic(excluding SCH during Light Arts), and decent skills in dagger & sword. However the use of Enfeebling has died out, there has been little reason to enfeeble anything in sometime, making this feature of RDM, nearly worthless. Enhancing Magic is ok, however its very limited to RDM, SCH has much better buffs for their party members, WHM has AoE spells, and much more powerful Barspells, Protectra/Shellra V, and Boost Spells that effect the party, rather than RDM's self only Gain Spells. All of this leaves RDM's enhancing far behind, and the only unique Enhancement RDM finds itself with that it can cast on others, is Phalanx, which loses its use on higher leveled, harder hitting content due to how it works. Sword & Dagger skill levels are good, however this plays into RDM's problem as well a bit, as its melee loses some accuracy & attack, which is much harder to make up for with gear than it is for many other jobs. In the end, our skills are nice, but without much to use them on, making them fairly meaningless. Bumping up Sword & Dagger to a B+, or A-, while adding new potent, and exclusive Enfeebling Magic & Enhancing Magic, should help RDM become useful again both as a melee, and a mage.



These are the 3 things I think RDM needs to be fixed. With these, we would get new spells, to make our Enhancing & Enfeebling more important, we would get new gear access, so that not only would we be potent mages, but potent fighters as well, and we would have the ability to fill a role better by using a buff to improve our position, while not overrunning jobs that currently hold those very same positions. I think this, would help make RDM the versatile hybrid job it was meant to be, and has fallen away from in recent times.

[Emitremmus]

Nicely worded Demon.

I like the ideas behind Brave and Faith, and allowing them to be RDM exclusive keeps it from getting out of hand. Gear is also a very valid point. Hell...BLU has access to several of the good job traits through just merely setting spells...RDM should have a self-enhancing only spell for traits too. The trait Fencer in a spell makes sense. Why not spells for Tactical Parry, Critical Hit Bonus, etc.? While we're at it...how about a Dual Wield spell, and Gilfinder, and Treasure Hunter, and Kick Attacks, and....okay I'm kidding about these. But I think my point is made.

As for the gear... The way gear is divided between Heavy Armor - Light Armor - Mage Armor is kind of silly anymore. It's like it's a template they follow with gear. For example: BST can use both Toci's and Mekira, PUP can use both Toci's and Heka's, but that seems to be it as far as options go. It's like they've been following the reward scheme from the 3 mini-add ons since they came out. I thought it was cool when you see a piece of armor that STRANGELY has a job you wouldn't think would be able to use it.

It seems like any armor RDM hopes to get that is a big deal in the future is going to be mage aligned. This argument can go along with some of the melee jobs that are on the Mekira piece too, as they don't necessarily capitalize on the defensive nature of Mekira all the time. But they have a lot better options at their disposal.

I don't think they neglect RDM as much as we think. They've made such other drastic changes to the other jobs that needed new stuff that RDM falling behind was kind of a side-effect. RDM was perfect back at the 75 cap. Now they just need to find that new niche that it falls in to...which I hope will be a melee based caster like a DRK, but with more emphasis on self-enhancement than attack.

[Thelona]

Brave should increase Attack/Accuracy, where as Faith should increase Magic Attack/Magic Accuracy. Doing this allows RDM to be fairly potent in both forms of combat, however not at the same time. Neither spell should have negative effects, and neither spell should be able to be cast on others.

How much do you want that party slot?

[Demon6324236]

If Brave or Faith were castable on others they could never have a 20% max bonus, or have no penalties. Think of how much Attack/Acc you would have on DRK, WAR, SAM, DRG, and other jobs, it would just become unbalanced, same as Faith would be with BLM & SCH, 20% Magic Attack Bonus would throw their nuke damage through the roof, especially since with all of the Magic Acc you could easily brush off resists. The main reason for Brave would be so RDM could have a good amount of Attack/Acc on things endgame, making it melee worthy, and with Faith, it would give RDM a massive lead in Magic Acc to land debuffs, while also making Nukes more worth while.

I think the only way we can have buffs that truly benefit RDM, is for it to be self-target only, otherwise it becomes overpowered, and has to be weakened, I believe this is the reason for Temper being self targeted, I admit, WAR having 32% Double Attack before gear, and actually 37 if you count merits, is overpowered easily, meaning Temper would have been weakened fast.

[Trangnai]

Ohlookitsthisthreadagain.jpg

But seriously, the deal with RDM is that it is a job that does a little bit of everything pretty well. The problem is that when you can level a job from 1-99 in a few days, nobody wants a job that that can do something "pretty well"... they only want a job that is the best at something, or at the very least can do the job better than RDM - which is pretty much all of them.

Need nukes? Get a BLM or SCH.
Need healing? Get a WHM or SCH.
Need enhancing? Get a BRD.
Need crowd control? Get a BLM or BRD.
Need refresh? Not with atmas, temps, JA's, RDM sub, etc.
Need enfeebling? Lol, what's that?
Need melee? Don't get me started.

Let's face it, the only thing RDM is the best at is enfeebling and unless SE makes it so that more than a handful of enfeebling spells can even land on NM's, RDM will continue to linger in this "pretty good" limbo that nobody wants. I will say that as misguided as they are on RDM, at least they made some effort. The Immunobreak system had some potential, but... well, we all know how that turned out. I really don't expect another attempt until after they figure out how to add more spells into the game and even then I won't hold my breath.

That is not entirely true, Look at alot of the classes you mentioned, SCH for one is a hybrid class. why get a sch when you can get whm or blm? etc etc.

The fact is that rdm needs something to make it stand out. In the past this was refresh. to help with that staple, the game of its performance vs other classes was not as wide as it is currently. Enhancing was useless even before Abyssea (except in maybe sky and Dynamis) but it wasent that that made rdm stand out, with the staple of refresh as well as a decent enough healing ability/nuking ability/crowd control ability (depedning on your role) it was used in almost every EG event.

The fact that it was able to fill multiple roles at once was one of its big key uses, thought most people only payed attention to the fact that they got one buff every 3 minutes. They don't notice that cure for 400 that allowed them to take one extra hit or the nuke only doing 900 dmg but ticking the mob a little closer to being dead, or the sleep that stopped the aggro you got from K.O.ing you, this list goes on.

The reasons a RDM is a waste of a slot right now is due to the fact that the gap is much much larger then it was at 75. Refresh is no longer required due to being able to be subbed, atmas, temps etc. Players who have invested time into rdm want a reason to play it. its sad having 25 jobs, 24 useable, 5 that should be being used if your look on things is how the game should work. There is no reason we shouldn't be allowed to play a job we have invested so much time in.

And Solo? Well... rdm is outdated in that department too.

@Emitermmus I was just stating my Opinion on your suggestions. I enjoyed your post and wanted to respond with my thoughts on them, is all.

[Thelona]

I don't see why they couldn't tag Brave/Faith to the new 2 hour, rdm could then be there to clean up the mess that will be PD/Embrava nerf

[Demon6324236]

But it would still be overpowered, the same reason they are nerfing PD/Embrava in the 1st place.

[Thelona]

Based on your proposed numbers it would be comparable to zerk/agg for Brave and for Faith a mab blm can do in their sleep. Not really that overpowered.

[Shadax]

That is not entirely true, Look at alot of the classes you mentioned, SCH for one is a hybrid class. why get a sch when you can get whm or blm? etc etc.

Re-read what I said. SCH can do those jobs better than RDM can. My point was, RDM is at the bottom of the list for just about every function it can perform. As for the rest of what you said, yeah, I pretty much agree.

Trust me, I put a lot of time into my RDM and I'm just as frustrated as everyone else that it's nothing but a novelty at this point. I'm just saying don't put a lot of faith into RDM being fixed anytime soon because, well, honestly, I don't think the devs have any idea what to do with it anymore, but there's also the technical limitations, like not being able to add new spells or abilities that don't share a timer with something else, that won't be addressed for a while.

[Trangnai]

Re-read what I said. SCH can do those jobs better than RDM can. My point was, RDM is at the bottom of the list for just about every function it can perform. As for the rest of what you said, yeah, I pretty much agree.

Trust me, I put a lot of time into my RDM and I'm just as frustrated as everyone else that it's nothing but a novelty at this point. I'm just saying don't put a lot of faith into RDM being fixed anytime soon because, well, honestly, I don't think the devs have any idea what to do with it anymore, but there's also the technical limitations, like not being able to add new spells or abilities that don't share a timer with something else, that won't be addressed for a while.

Oh, I have no doubt, but if were only choosing the best for everything why not just have another blm or whm? There are alot of different ways they can address technical issues the problem is there reluctance to keep the game from evolving due to a small player base. That aside.

The point is, we know SCH outclasses rdm in those roles, but it also has unquie spells, traits and abilities that may make it a worthwhile replacement. If it were nothing more then a slightly weaker version that could do both, noone would use it.

RDM requires those type of abilities to be able to establish a role again, due to the changes in the game, its former roles are no longer needed.

Most people in the thread want to solve the issue via new spells but SE has already declined such an offer stating "Limitations" regardless of how true there statements are, we must take them as fact, and while in the past they have stated no trait or ability boosts, that have to realize that other then possibly removing spells from the game to make slots for new spells, they will have to give us some type of trait or ability that will allow us to assume a role, roles, or change play style. As the current one is too dated to mater in End Game content.

[ManaKing]

In reference to the new 2 Hours, SE told us they were working on a way to add more recast timers for job abilities and add new spells.

The reason we don't have new 2 hours already is that the new administration wanted us to have both available, instead of having to pick because it felt like the proper way to move forward.

For jobs like Dragoon, they may have access to all 4 offensive jumps. For jobs like RDM, it might mean a lot more. This is all going to come down to what the new vision is for the game and how they go about implementing it.

I said previously that I am hopefully and optimistic, but I am still reserved. The way the new administration is moving COULD indicate great things for us. It could also be me choosing to see what I want to see. I am supportive of the changes that are being made and I am willing to give the newer administration enough time/faith to disappoint RDM yet again. BUT I do think they will do better than their predecessors only based on how they are addressing new issues such as the 2 hours and the way in which they are going about fixing them for not just the current game but also for future improvements.

[Demon6324236]

I am 50/50 with them myself. I am interested by the things we have seen so far, asking what we want, and changing how the new 2-hours would function in general, not to mention reducing recast timers. My problems however are I still feel we are being ignored in some cases without being given a valid reason, one such case I am sure you can agree with me on that effects RDM greatly, is the fact they seem to be willing to do nothing to change how Excalibur interacts with Enspells. This kind of behavior is what saddens me, and takes away the hope I do, or did have.
Greetings,

Correct, this is intentional. As some of you may already know, added effects from weapons cannot stack, thus unfortunately the added effect from Excalibur cannot be used in conjunction with Enlight.

Also, it is not possible to make it so the effect from Enlight activates when the added effect from Excalibur does not. Likewise, changing the priority so that Excalibur's added effect is higher than Enlight would require a complete reworking of the weapon as well as limit the use of Enlight, which is not a realistic approach to this.

With that said, we will be keeping priority on Enlight and would like players to choose which effect they want to use by removing the Enlight effect for the times they prefer having Excalibur's added effect.This was from the PLD area, however it effects RDM just as much as a PLD, or possibly even more.

[ManaKing]

It effects RDM more than PLD because Enlight + Almace is still very reasonable.

I don't disagree with your sentiment either, BUT I don't think that they are just going to run to our rescue and prioritize us first because we require more work than most jobs to do properly.

I hope they make large general fixes that help everyone first, such as adding more job abilities and spells. RDM will still be comparatively boned, but in actuality stronger than previously. We will still be under-powered and undesirable, but if they so choose they can come in and fix and fine tune a lot of the issues that this job has been hung up on for a long time.

The Excalibur response was infuriating bullshit, but it doesn't stop me from using it and enjoying it. I don't use enspells right now because I really want to get a good feel for pros and cons on the additional affect. When I double damage crit and the additional affect goes off, I feel great and the mob probably has eaten shit and died. If it hasn't, I don't get the extra hate from the additional affect. I can drop a lot more damage on a mob at once and it is very enjoyable. What would make it more enjoyable and not even remotely over powered? The additional affect from Excalibur overriding regular enspells.....

[Crimson_Slasher]

Hows about we give a trait to rdm allowing enfeebles to near-instant cast? Recasts can be unaffected if they are worried about balance but if we are intended to enfeeble, then breakneck cast speeds and possibly short recasts would ALMOST address our ability to do croud-control. Also wouldnt hurt in the melee field with a quick little pop of a spell fired at headbutt or stun speeds.

Aside from that, it may not be the best option, but i still stand by stances, because stances can be made excessively powerful on grounds of being dispelled, or locking/limiting other functions.

[Trangnai]

In reference to the new 2 Hours, SE told us they were working on a way to add more recast timers for job abilities and add new spells.

The reason we don't have new 2 hours already is that the new administration wanted us to have both available, instead of having to pick because it felt like the proper way to move forward.

For jobs like Dragoon, they may have access to all 4 offensive jumps. For jobs like RDM, it might mean a lot more. This is all going to come down to what the new vision is for the game and how they go about implementing it.

I said previously that I am hopefully and optimistic, but I am still reserved. The way the new administration is moving COULD indicate great things for us. It could also be me choosing to see what I want to see. I am supportive of the changes that are being made and I am willing to give the newer administration enough time/faith to disappoint RDM yet again. BUT I do think they will do better than their predecessors only based on how they are addressing new issues such as the 2 hours and the way in which they are going about fixing them for not just the current game but also for future improvements.

While I feel rdms ned 2hr is a lack luster, its good to see they are trying to implelement ways fo jobs to change and advance our current system within the game. Even thought this won't benifit rdm alone th advancements to the game could benifit rdm in a series of ways.

I know he devs have alot of stuff to work on alot of people to listen to and code to mess with to figure out if the game can change without breaking it. They are still having issues fixing other things broken by the last update.

FFXI is really reaching the end of its lifeline, at least as long as it has PS2 support. I have to admit I'm impessed they pushed it this far but 32bs of ram... slow custom CPU and needding to hav dedicated devs to that system and its unquie archtechture are what is prohibitng this game from moving forward, there would be no "we cn't do this" if they were not using such a dated system and could revamp engines and such.

Let me put it this way I can't still play WoW on a PowerMac G5

I can't still play EQ on Windows 98

etc etc, its soethig that MMOs do and it part of being a company that deveolps MMOs. We all talk about job balance and such. but Balance isn't as much of issue as having a reason to play it, just because other classes may be better at most roles you can play, how can the end group benifit from having you over another class?

If the PS2 is part of the reason rdm is stuck in Limbo other jobs are neglected etc etc. SE may just have to realise the PS2 needs to be dropped for deveolpmet of this game to contiune.

[Windblade]

I know this is an old thread, but as one who is very interested in RDM improvements, I just had to go ahead and reply.

My favorite job combination for RDM, especially when soloing, is RDM/WHM. Being able to remove status ailments is fantastic, plus there's the Convert/Divine Magic combination. But I love soloing. The only thing I don't like is that it takes RDM so long to kill something, and yet we can spend all the time enhancing, enfeebling, keeping ourselves alive, etc... RDM doesn't have any devastating weapon skills. I can fight alongside some other job and he can kill three mobs in the time it takes me to kill one, so he gets solo experience three times faster than I can. I believe that the time spent working on a mob should also be counted toward experience points.

As for the lack of real attack power with RDM, I suggest a method by which you could attain solo magic bursts. I tend to conserve MP when soloing so I can keep enhancements and cures going, so I don't do a whole lot of nuking, especially since the elemental magic skill limitation keeps nukes from doing a whole lot of damage. But what if Red Mage got a whole set of elemental weapon skills, at least one for each element? You could then have an en-spell going, then use a certain elemental weapon skill, and THEN use an elemental nuke spell for a magic burst -- maybe even a magic burst that is more powerful than what is normally attained when waiting for other players to set you up for a magic burst. Maybe call it a magic blast or something.

When I first started playing, I thought it was logical that you could first use a water spell on a mob, followed by a thunder spell to electrocute him more effectively. Of course, it doesn't actually work like that, but it would be great if it did. So a water spell should keep a mob wet for a time, causing double damage from Enthunder. Or you could combine Enfire, a fire weapon skill, then a fire spell to really incinerate the mob to a crisp as each one builds on the other.

Additionally, there's the cure issue. I remember hearing that a long time ago, not long before I started playing, RDM had Cure V. I had hoped that we'd get it back when the level cap was raised, but it didn't happen. Being stuck at Cure IV really does stink when you're Lv.99.

All these enhancements don't do a whole lot of good when you're in Abyssea. Even all the Easy Prey mobs I've fought in Abyssea hit a lot like even match mobs, even through Phalanx. So the need for some way to kill these mobs more quickly is desperately needed, in my view. I don't actually enjoy soloing in Abyssea because I can die so easily, while something like a monk seems to have a much easier time of it.

FWIW,
Windblade

[Crimson_Slasher]

With propper gearing, kill speed isnt too bad, even without an emp i averaged 2500+ deathblossoms at 95 cap on EM sandsweepers in abyssea, and rdm can really do some decent DOT with temper and enspells and DW/DA/Haste gears.

But i still do agree with you that being so heavily gear reliant for even a little kill speed is something that could be addressed. Also subjob choice of /whm can hurt that killspeed too, and if you wouldnt mind we are entirely open to offering gear selection suggestions if you would care to show us what you are currently using when fighting mobs?

[Windblade]

With propper gearing, kill speed isnt too bad, even without an emp i averaged 2500+ deathblossoms at 95 cap on EM sandsweepers in abyssea, and rdm can really do some decent DOT with temper and enspells and DW/DA/Haste gears.

But i still do agree with you that being so heavily gear reliant for even a little kill speed is something that could be addressed. Also subjob choice of /whm can hurt that killspeed too, and if you wouldnt mind we are entirely open to offering gear selection suggestions if you would care to show us what you are currently using when fighting mobs?

Well, that WHM subjob can remove blindness, paralysis, and most other status ailments that can easily nullify any advantages you might think you get from leaving the WHM sub in the mog house. Like you can remove all those pesky Attack-Down, Defense-Down ailments. Probably, all job combos result in generally the same end result. The only variation is in how you attain victory. So some job combos take a little longer, some are a little faster. And which mobs you're fighting makes a difference, too.

[Doombringer]

Well, that WHM subjob can remove blindness, paralysis, and most other status ailments that can easily nullify any advantages you might think you get from leaving the WHM sub in the mog house. Like you can remove all those pesky Attack-Down, Defense-Down ailments. Probably, all job combos result in generally the same end result. The only variation is in how you attain victory. So some job combos take a little longer, some are a little faster. And which mobs you're fighting makes a difference, too.


lemme preface this with a simple disclaimer; you can sub whatever you want.

BUT! /WHM really does nothing for your killspeed, and dual wield is a pretty huge deal. so don't delude yourself.

/NIN is like a 35-40% DMG buff, not to mention that utsusemi will mitigate a lot of the damage you take, and potentially some of those status ailments you were on about (assuming the mob even has them)

/DNC gives a lower tier of dual wield than /NIN, but you're still looking at a 20-30% DMG increase compared to /WHM. this also gives you healing waltz, which directly removes status ailments. (even silence since it's a job ability and not a spell.) you also gain sambas, which can up your survivability, staying power, or damage. (though they force you to use enspell2 or no enspells at all. so it's not exactly a free lunch)

The only PRACTICAL reason to /WHM is if you see yourself needing to throw out lots of -na spells for multiple people, particularly if you don't wanna be within range of eating those status ailments yourself (that pretty much rules out /DNC) and many would argue that you can get the same or better results by subbing scholar.



Again, NOT trying to kick anybody's favorite baby down the stairs, just trying to help you make an informed decision.

[saevel]

The only PRACTICAL reason to /WHM is if you see yourself needing to throw out lots of -na spells for multiple people, particularly if you don't wanna be within range of eating those status ailments yourself (that pretty much rules out /DNC) and many would argue that you can get the same or better results by subbing scholar.


To add to what DB said here, /SCH is typically your sub of choice for party work. The only thing /WHM has over it is stona.

DWIII is 25% DR, suppa is 5% additional DR.
100/70 = 42.85% increase in melee DPS from /NIN
100/80 = 25% increase in melee DPS from /DNC

That doesn't take into account the additional hit on WS's nor the slightly increased TP gain speed. So for raw kill speed /NIN or /DNC are the way to go, for party support it's /SCH or rarely /WHM.

[Thegreatmonkey]

So I was thinking about RDM and thought maybe they should put Chainspell on a 5-10 min cool down timer and give RDM a new 2hr (1hr) ability that lets them pick what job ability they want to activate. It could be something they set like how BLU sets there spells or something that brings up a sub menu like DNC job ability's. RDM should also get an A rating in sword skill and B rating in both Elemental magic and Healing magic and maybe give them access to Cure V along with a Job trait that would allow them to attack faster when meleeing. I think this would put RDM at the same level as a SCH or WHM while at the same time give them a melee option.

[ManaKing]

^Lol. I've seen this before.

[Mageoholic]

Things to fix RDM.

Enhancing and Enfeebling Skill level now affects potency of all enhancing and enfeebling magics. (Making RDM the best overall magic buffer/debuffer).

Added back onto light armor melee sets with DNC THF BLU and the other usual suspects.

Enspell II's adjusted for utility, remove the -MEVA and add an Elemental Debuff like stat modifier (-1 STR for each successive swing. Or allow for specific enspell to increase affinity for that spell on each consecutive swing. IE. a fully charged affinity allows a sword to imitate the bonus damage of a staff.

Adjust the enfeebles Paralyze, Slow to impact mob TP. Paralyze can trigger on TP moves, Slow reduces a mobs TP gain rate. Restructure Gravity so the -EVA sticks even if weight is resisted. All T2 Merit spells become scrolls.

New T2 merits that allow a RDM to fine tune their positions, enhanced enfeebling effects, enhanced enhancements, enhanced nuking, enhanced healing, enhanced melee, enhanced defense.

Allow RDM Access to EX WS's on both Dagger and Sword.

Put RDM back on damaging daggers.

Add Occult Accumen to RDM.

Give RDM a Souleater like melee buff, that consumes MP instead of HP.

Restructure enfeeble enimty tables so RDM can act as a tank once again. (BLM no longer requires the reduction as they have enmity douse and mana wall as defensive options if they pull hate.)

[Shumo]

Why not give RDMs the ability to combine 2 spells into one? You know, like alchemy in some of the older games, but for magic. Doesn't mean that every spell combination would be viable but would at least let RDM dabble in something not only unique but useful as well. That of course would mean working on a completely new spell repertoire only for RDM, but at least there would already be a visible scope on possible spell results since they're based on actual spells that have been around for years. I see this as something very, very unlikely but felt like throwing it out there, anyway.

[ManaKing]

Double cast - combine two spells that match SC properties for Fusion, Fragmentation, Distortion, or Gravitation and set yourself up for Skill chain and magic burst. Use Dia and Bio for Fusion and Gravitation. 3 Minute timer.

RDM helps to maximize magical damage for the party by having easy access to MBs for other mages. You can create Dark and Light SCs with Death Blossom, so it's not even a matter of having to get Requiescat or an Excalibur for Gravitation or Fusion.

Fun tip: RDM with an Excalibur can open and close every Light and Dark SC, because they have access to every level 2 SC property.

[shantaru]

i posted what i think on RDM and haste II (i made a reply to thread)
and also i posted 2 new JA ideas that are not at all stupid to consider. and it based on the current enhancing magic skill method that rdm is known for (500 cap) . check it out and reply pls i want input on if this would work (it basically giving the rdm a decent ability to boost the party but not at all as much as COR and BRD do to imcrease partys stats since BRD or COR will still be in party. i know AOE is not a rdm thing as main but SE need consider the FIX to rdm may require this aoe JA for attack up based on enhancing gear equiped. the 2 new JA i posted on RDM new ideas and the reply to RDM and HASTE II. also some little thought into a few spells needed beside haste II (dispelga perhaps 2 buff removed minimum 1 cast and se seems to think dia III is pretty good but DIA IV may be needed to revive RDM. let me know i have been RDM from day 1 and decaying daily. SE please help us out

[shantaru]

My ideas were merely suggestions. The only thing I don't like seeing any of you say is that you don't expect something to happen. At this point with a new expansion coming out that everyone was CERTAIN couldn't happen, I would say anything is possible anymore.

I agree that our main focus has always been enfeebling, and that is where our strength should lie. But at this point, being able to enfeeble an NM is going to make or break the battle. Being able to have a higher tier slow/para/blind/etc. is going to make things too easy, whereas the slot a RDM would take up could be filled with Resolution to further destroy the enemy.

When RDM gets "fixed", I think we will see a huge focus on the melee and enspell side of things. Back in the day they added Composure to address this slightly. Perhaps a new JA that takes the focus off of casting and enhances the swordplay abilities of RDM, while adding penalties to spells.

yes RDM/NIN is still broke but MAXed out i show laksmi server that i can still DD and ALOT MORE with cap fascast shadow -10% neck on all they could say was OK... im tossing hate on the rdm HAHA. fix rdm main SE and it on like a BIG DONG! you know? my WS acc is 920+ with soul +1. where close SE but read my posts where still seen as week and not WANTED... all want to battle through it so help RDM enter the ARENA again and IT BE THE MOST FUN ONCE DEVELOPED ALMOST ever! RDM/nin with cap Fascast and -10% neck on. try it out im running shadows all say long no cast lock. all we need know it faster sword JOB specific weapons need added to game anyway at 119. NIN katana so fast. give rdm a faster weapon to rock n roll finally. 1 faster JSPEC weapon with ecaliber or almace whatever be on like a big dong! i cant wait to see rdm fixed and from my post and what is needed to even compete with cor or brd with only 1 in the party and a RDM going melee and heal/enfeeble if needed it will take something simular to the JA ideas i posted and haste II single targeted still. aoe the gain spells not stacking with like boost from whm be fine and dandy!! JA DUELaga aoe attack to party memebers in effect even 10% be something with gains/or TEMPER chance rate on Double attack aoe'd be much desired even based on ehancing magic equiped to be poper RDM form and under composure last 2.5 min max on a 5 min timer. IT BE PROPER and server would accept usi f haste II from RDM on melees and on RDM/nin could then PARSE damage properly. im close but some jobs but still it not proper DAMage as it should be to fill a spot in a DAMAGE THROUGH IT SETUP as all new contetnt 6mans seem to be. tweek RDM!!!! SE read my posts