In regards to the lack of communication on the NA side over the update issues

[Staren]

The latest JP Update from the Dev Team appears to say they have no clue what is causing these crashes that still persist. Linkshell events are having to be cancelled due to an inability to trust that their members wont magically vanish in the middle of the fight either causing a loss for the group or their member to miss out on spoils. NNI is risky to attempt as the time sensitivity of the run cannot afford for a DD to DC in the middle of the run especially since some of your lamp floors require they be in attendance.

If you dont know what the issue is you have one of two options. You roll back the entire update because something you did blew everything up. Option two you refund our subscription fees for the time the game is unreliable/unplayable. I have experience in the software field and this is not acceptable behavior for any company. I dont mean to be rude moreso I am intent on being blunt. My life in game was a million times better before this update and what you instituted I didnt want/need and can live without for the duration of my remaining time in the game. It would be nice to be able to play the game again.

[Dazusu]

Oh one of these posts again.

If you had experience in the software field (other than installing MS Office on your Neighbours PC and her giving you $10 for your trouble), you'd know that live updates get pushed out - bugs occur, and people aren't refunded subscription fees for shit that's covered in the end user agreement that you agree to each time you login. Not to mention this problem is menial at best, and will probably be resolved shortly.

[Staren]

One of these responses again. I will put my money where my mouth is. Here is my LinkedIn profile.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/russell-mccoy-iii/1a/ba1/a66

I am a Configuration Manager. I have been developing releases and managing and testing releases for companies that make profits in the hundreds of millions. I have a background in auditing and SOX Compliance as well as ISO, ITIL, CMMI. Every company I worked for was a client driven release process. We had to have backups and rollbacks for every release we did. Especially being in the medical field at Alere you cannot have software giving people health results and advice with bugs in the code. So please tell me again what experience I lack.

[Mirage]

Shit just got real.

[Infidi]

One of these responses again. I will put my money where my mouth is. Here is my LinkedIn profile.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/russell-mccoy-iii/1a/ba1/a66

I am a Configuration Manager. I have been developing releases and managing and testing releases for companies that make profits in the hundreds of millions. I have a background in auditing and SOX Compliance as well as ISO, ITIL, CMMI. Every company I worked for was a client driven release process. We had to have backups and rollbacks for every release we did. Especially being in the medical field at Alere you cannot have software giving people health results and advice with bugs in the code. So please tell me again what experience I lack.
Can you turn my toaster into a time machine? :D

[Staren]

Follow the below schematic

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4523tIdB31qjfzvbo1_500.png

YW.

[Infidi]

Follow the below schematic

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4523tIdB31qjfzvbo1_500.png

YW.

I wonder if I duct- taped the duck the opposite way it would make a clean, renewable energy source... Provide unlimited clean energy for all human kind or sign my name on the deceleration of independence.... Decisions, decisions...

[Asymptotic]

One of these responses again. I will put my money where my mouth is. Here is my LinkedIn profile.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/russell-mccoy-iii/1a/ba1/a66

I am a Configuration Manager. I have been developing releases and managing and testing releases for companies that make profits in the hundreds of millions. I have a background in auditing and SOX Compliance as well as ISO, ITIL, CMMI. Every company I worked for was a client driven release process. We had to have backups and rollbacks for every release we did. Especially being in the medical field at Alere you cannot have software giving people health results and advice with bugs in the code. So please tell me again what experience I lack.


Apparently you lack the experience to understand why rollbacks would be important in the medical field but menial performance hiccups in a game wouldn't merit the same treatment.

[Arcon]

We had to have backups and rollbacks for every release we did. Especially being in the medical field at Alere you cannot have software giving people health results and advice with bugs in the code. So please tell me again what experience I lack.

The experience to make a qualified comment, as the field you have experience in is completely and entirely unrelated. There are simply different needs and requirements for medical applications that need to function correctly and games that focus on incremental progress and upgrades, where temporary bugs are tolerated.

You've shown your opinion to be unqualified with this comment:

I have experience in the software field and this is not acceptable behavior for any company.

You don't get to decide what's acceptable and what not (even if you actually did have applicable experience, which isn't the case). This particular choice of words makes it obvious that you just feel unreasonably entitled and the fact that you're hurt got to you and you want them to re-roll something that affected you personally negatively at the cost of affecting everyone else negatively by denying them new content (and very likely the progress/achievements they've made since then, as a rollback of game information would most likely be connected to a rollback of character information as well).

[Staren]

These standards. ISO, SOX, CMMI are not medical field only standards. SE is an international company so they are not required by any means to fulfill them. Don't mistake best practices with the fact that one of the companies I worked at as being medical. These practices are followed at the State Dept of Education which is a non profit organization. Why? Because they are best practices. You're right I dont decide them just the entire software development standards used by most every North American company. So try to act high and mighty but SE does not measure up to some of the smallest standards American companies hold themselves to. You can white knight all you want but trying to pull arguments about computing basics methodologies and policies you have no experience with and have probably never read or tried to implement yourselves is just armchair quarterbacking and white knighting SE. The fact that you don't know what Change Management is or does, which is obvious by the fact that you don't realize that my experience is relevant, shows you probably have a minute understanding of an SDLC or a proper release cycle at an actual professional company and you are probably someone who works out of your basement writing code with your friends. That or you work at a company so small they don't even register well enough to be traded publicly.

Secondly, the "new content" provided in this update was kupowers and meeble burrows. Neither of which were game changers and none of you will see the rewards for at least a month if the place they suggest the good drops comes from is the final boss. Its been three days you havent honestly made enough "progress" for it to be countable. Not everyone cares about this stuff as much as you official forums casual players do and most of us would prefer being able to continue content that truly matters like NNI, Legion and Prov that you probably aren't good enough to get into or complete anyways. Also had they listened to the outcry from their fanbase and rolled back immediately this issue wouldnt still be around and no progress would be lost. Really the biggest issue is how did this release get past their QA team and the test servers without any of this being noticed. The latter is more believable with <100 people actually active on there regularly.

Show me some IT credentials at a real company and maybe I will take you seriously because you are obviously unfamiliar with the common standards being pushed on companies across the United States at a bare minimum and some of the standards such as ISO are international standards.

[Demon6324236]

So try to act high and mighty
Not everyone cares about this stuff as much as you official forums casual players do and most of us would prefer being able to continue content that truly matters like NNI, Legion and Prov that you probably aren't good enough to get into or complete anyways.Your acting high and mighty too, except on a basis that you apparently believe people are casual players and would have no idea what its like to have problems with the endgame content you mention. I agree with you on this subject for the most part, and I doubt anyone is happy with any of these problems. I normally do quite a bit of VW, since the update I have been unable to actually bother with it because people DC so often in it that it becomes a waste of time. Dynamis also becomes a problem when you DC, only to pop up in the middle of a swarm of mobs, and get killed instantly, ending your run. It also hurts time for Salvage runs.

No matter what content you do, be it Dyna, VW, Legion, NNI, anything, this problem effects every one of us. Also, who are you to say what content matters? My Dyna runs matter to me, my Salvage runs matter to me, doing VW and being able to do 6 kills without half the party DCing at some point during it matters to me. In either case, the last time I remember this game getting a refund on money, was back when the servers were going down completely for days in 2011 due to the Tsunami.

If what Arcon said was right
re-roll something that affected you personally negatively at the cost of affecting everyone else negatively by denying them new content (and very likely the progress/achievements they've made since then, as a rollback of game information would most likely be connected to a rollback of character information as well).Then this also would rollback the progress of anything else done in the game since the update, for some this could be small, and trivial, maybe even nothing at all, for others... An entire ls might have went out and made someone an Emp in the last 2 days, went out and did an Ukon, now whoever got their Ukon loses it, and their LS doesnt feel like going to do it again only days later, so no Ukon for them. Thats not to mention that also as its said, this removes content we just got. I myself like getting new content, more to do, I am restricted to the endgame content I do because of my choice to remain in my own ls which is primarly social, so content like this which is on a small scale and reletivly simple in nature is something I am happy to see, taking it away would only piss me off, especially if they can fix these problems without doing that, and only need a bit more time. So far as I have seen, this problem is starting to disipate anyways, as I have not had a problem with DCing on either of my 2 characters I have been dualboxing today, and have had no DC complaints in my LS either.

[Zhronne]

Can we please stop to turn this discussion into the typical "let's bash user X"?

Someone makes a post.
Another one replies "STFU you have no experience so you can't talk"
He gets back "well actually I do have a bit of experience"
Then people judge him arrogant and start bashing him saying his opinion is invalid.

I hate when this happen. Can we please go back into judging what someone says instead of judging WHO said it?
Wether or not Staren is perfectly qualified to say the things to said (looks to me that he's more qualified than 90% of the people on these boards, but I might be wrong) has very little to do with what he said.
Seems to me his rant is very much understandable and built on solid bases.

If you don't agree say why and develop a well-written post and "bash" what he said, instead of WHO said it.

[Demon6324236]

What he said made since, yes, but it doesn't mean its likely. I also disagree with the idea of undoing the update entirely, and moving everyone back to the way they were before the update. Refunds for everyone? Cool, not a bad idea with all the problems its causing, we should be told what the JPs are told? Again I agree, this is something that needs fixed badly, I remember back at Vanafest where our Reps forgot to tell us about /fume in VW... But the idea of taking back the update for now, is an idea I just don't like, and the fact what I read seemed to be an attack on the credibility of someone voicing their opinion, as a reason for doing so, is all the more reason I disagree with it being done.

[Mirage]

Are the crashes still happening, btw? I haven't crashed even once since the version update, even though I have been playing a lot, so I wouldn't notice any difference if they fixed it.

[Zhronne]

Good, that's something positive for the discussion. Say what you like/unlike and what you agree or don't agree with.
There's no need to delegitimate the person making the post just because you don't like what he says but have no clue how to counter-argument it.

For instance I do concur with your last post, undoing the patch is just pure fantasy. Expecting a better communication and faster handling of the issue is the least we deserve though.
What worries me most is the fact they seem to not have a clue about what is happening.
I haven't logged since sunday because of RL issues (day before patch) and seems to me this patch is the most buggy ever released.
Crashes, wrong items displayed and whatever else.
Wow...
Looks like a big fail.

Also this patch included the items for the Xmas event. I guess it's safe to jump to the conclusion that we'll not see another content patch until AFTER xmas? Whoa...

[Dazusu]

So please tell me again what experience I lack.

Sorry, I didn't realise Final Fantasy XI was mission critical software powering the medical field. For someone as intelligent as you appear to be, your opening post is thoughtless drivel. Comparing your experience of bugs in software that power the medical field to an online game, I mean... really?

[Staren]

Dazusu you didnt read anything following that. Especially my second post listing out only one of the companies I worked at that implement these common standards was a medical field. Others I have worked at were architectural companies, oil companies, and non profit government agencies. This is a common standard across the United States and even Western Europe. Internationally companies can choose to adopt these standards which are in fact only best business practices we enforce here due to issues like Enron. The example I often give is the movie Office Space. Without standards like these developers can push code that siphons away money, or user information, or just bad code that keeps the company from running for several days.

I apologize for the inflamation of my last post Demon6324236 it was late and I had been having trouble sleeping. Obviously everyone believes their content is completely valid and you are right about the fact that a complete rollback of data would cause people to lose content. If SE is not following any of these standards a removal of the code would require a complete rollback. Which as I stated in the second post they should have done immediately when they noticed people crashing and had no clue why not stalling out three days allowing people to have created a distance and difference in the backups which would cause as you put Ukons being unbuilt etc. I can see that being an issue. The hope would be if SE kept builds version controlled using the right Source Control systems they could just rollback their code for and server side sql changes using rollback scripts that targeted only the update data without having to affect user data and push the dats from the old build from a client side update til this is fixed. The last thing you want to do is lose user data after a build deployment if you dont catch it immediately. So I was not implying they should roll back our character information. Though thinking about it if they didnt follow standards for this release they probably dont have the others that are commonplace in place.

I've had a few friends still reporting issues with crashing and bg/xiah threads were still reporting crashing issues as of yesterday after the 5am est patch. So as far as I know this issue hasnt been completely wiped and the JP DEV post looked to come an after the fix and the response seemed very much to be the QA team had no clue how to replicate the issue.

[Vold]

Maybe they don't have the luxury of having the champion of computer technology working at their company to solve problems within a day. Maybe they have to make due with newbies. But there is no preaching to them about how it's not acceptable when the game is practically up 24 hours a day aside from the once every few years problem that causes everyone to DC a lot. It's not necessarily an exclusive problem to them alone. See this is what happens when we take technology for granted. It's impossibly complicated for the average Joe and Jane to understand. We think it's a piece of cake. You just stick the thing into the thing and BOOM! it works. To the person who specializes in it i.e. understands technology it's nothing special. You do it for a living. But once in awhile you should step back and examine just what it is you're doing and try to view it as an outsider and you too will agree that hey, this shit's pretty complicated, hardware and software alike.

There's a good reason why people in the field get paid a shitthousand dollars every year to do what they do. But not all of them are geniuses that can fix a difficult DC problem before lunch at 12. All those wiz kids that could pull that off stat are probably working for their respective governments. Or Microsoft. Or NASA. The rest of the world has to make due with what they can get their hands on for talent and so that means we wait.

[Tanama]

In regards to the lack of communication on the NA side over the update issues
It looks like the Community team is very busy with FFXIV: ARR. In the last three days the FFXIV forum has 10 replies while this forum has only one. (Discounting the Mog house contest, of course.)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/search.php?searchid=8060312

See the link above.

[Arcon]

If you don't agree say why and develop a well-written post and "bash" what he said, instead of WHO said it.

If someone says "turd sandwiches are good because I say so and I have experience because I've been eating them for a long time", would you develop a well-written post countering that argument with health concerns and hygiene issues?

There's nothing to develop here. There's no meaningful discussion to be had, because it's not a meaningful topic. Game rerolls are a horrible idea and should only be used in extreme cases (in theory, pretty much never in reality). A few crashes for certain people are a problem, and a big one, but one that should be fixed, not ignored and washed away to try again. (And they did fix a big cause of the crashes, although apparently not everything.) A reroll would not only wash away everything the people did in that time, but also fuck up their own release schedule and establish peoples' opinion and views of them as being inconsistent and unreliable. It would make people afraid to do anything relevant after an update, because they wouldn't want to risk letting any progress they make go to waste again.

What they should have done (and remember for the future), is to test the stuff more thoroughly and not release half-baked code in the first place. This issue should have never arisen. But since it did, they did the right thing and fixed it (at least partially, remains to be seen if they fix it entirely).


Dazusu you didnt read anything following that. Especially my second post listing out only one of the companies I worked at that implement these common standards was a medical field. Others I have worked at were architectural companies, oil companies, and non profit government agencies. This is a common standard across the United States and even Western Europe. Internationally companies can choose to adopt these standards which are in fact only best business practices we enforce here due to issues like Enron. The example I often give is the movie Office Space. Without standards like these developers can push code that siphons away money, or user information, or just bad code that keeps the company from running for several days.

And I'm saying all of that is entirely irrelevant, same as everything from your previous post. I never questioned your qualifications, because I don't need to, because they don't matter. It's simply not up to you to decide what's acceptable, no matter who you think you are, what you do or what you know. And no standard says they need to reroll releases if they don't conform to some imaginary quality guidelines. What's acceptable is decided by the community, and if they go along with it, it is accepted, period. So you're unqualified by definition, regardless of your qualifications.

[Staren]

Likewise if someone says I like douches and I have experience being a douche. Their opinion.is obviously the better one amirite. This is just as bad as politics. You have to discount the other person to be valid rather than read their points and have a logical debate.

If you actually read my last post other than take the parts you like. You would see I said a full char rollback wouldnt be necessary. It you roll back deltas only in the code.and data from the release. It would only remove data regarding kupowers and Meeble burrows. Thats if SE was up to standards and did release following best business practices. So for instane if you did build an ukon in this time it would still be there. However if you did clear three meeble burrows halls they wouldnt. That would be the only data.missing. I said I wasnt advocating, char rollbacks I was advocating a rollback of the code. Which I realize is hard to read or comprehend over your desire to white Knight SE.

All you are saying is that anyone who.disagrees with you votes for.turdsandwich and therefore doesnt.count as a person or valid thought. If the community is truly the opinion that matters and you believed that. I am a member of the community just as much as you or else I couldnt post here. So by that logic all my thoughts.and beliefs no matter their basis are just as equally valid as yours. I dont know what you did between the update and now that you feel the need to protect like Gollum did his precious but I was never threatening it so you can calm down. But I can understand your confusion with a lack of background in the field.

I didnt create the standards their peers have by most every company offering web based services follows these standards. I work in the field and believe me when I say that if the companies I have worked in can do it anyone can.

As far as SE building a name that makes us trust their builds its a bit late for that. This isnt even the first build that has messed up royally just the first to cause major service disruptions.

[Sargent]

It looks like the Community team is very busy with FFXIV: ARR. In the last three days the FFXIV forum has 10 replies while this forum has only one. (Discounting the Mog house contest, of course.)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/search.php?searchid=8060312

See the link above.

Back to the topic at hand... there is a blatant lack of communication as of late. It's fair to say most people are experiencing issues with random crashing, we had issues with the wrong items being displayed in the chat log when used/obtained, and we've not heard a thing. OK, SE has patched the Zhayolm Remnants bug and the chat log issue, but from what I've heard, the crashing still persists.
A translated BG post (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/112776-Dev-Tracker-Findings-Posts) says that the information concerning these bugs is being posted on the JP forums (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/27502-9%E6%9C%8825%E6%97%A5%E3%83%90%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A7%E3%83%B3%E3%82%A2%E3%83%83%E3%83%97%E5%BE%8C%E3%81%AE%E4%B8%8D%E5%85%B7%E5%90%88%28%E3%82%A2%E3%82%A4%E3%83%86%E3%83%A0%E5%90%8D%29?p=364695#post364695), but not here. Surely at least relaying some sort of acknowledgement of these issues is important?

[Staren]

Also. Butterscotch candy?

[Staren]

Sorry Sargent posted that the same time as you because I cant edit via mobile. That was part of my original frustration. Some acknowledgement and forwarded information would be nice. Instead we get a wizard of oz-esque dont pay attention to the man behind the curtain. Here isnt this moghouse contest shiny? I dont think na/eu players should mushrooms (i can explain the expression if needed).

[Staren]

Should be mushrooms*

[RAIST]

the conx problems probably aren't actually tied to the update per se, but more the typical issues with connection pooling/internal routing issues, so even if they were to roll back the database changes and the clients to pre-update state (which would require some heavy downtime)---the problem may still exist if it's more along the lines of their load balancing issues we've been dealing with for forever and a day now.

They've always had these issues, and the more crud they are moving across the wires (internally and externally), the worse it gets--they simply need to beef up the networking side to handle things better.

[Staren]

Thats a new perspective and a good suggestion for them to check. I was assuming that they weren't pushing more data down the pipes but they could have made more data server side. This could be a ps2 limitation due to having to cram data into a minimum 256kb connection? I just wonder why it might affect broadband users. Could the data spike that bad? I have minimal network/load balancing experience.

[Camate]

Greetings!

I’m sorry that you feel that there has been a lack of communication over bugs caused by the most recent version update. However, rest assured that we are not shirking our duties to let you know the status of things. Most of the issues raised that were commented on by a Japanese rep. were already present on the News section (http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/info/info_top.shtml) of PlayOnline.com when the North American reps came into the office, which outlines the list of known issues and also updates that have since taken place to resolve the issues.

The aforementioned issue where the game would crash when items are displayed in your inventory or in the purchase screen on NPCs has been fixed with yesterday’s update (http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/polnews/news21696.shtml). If this problem is still occurring, please let us know and we will let the appropriate people know so they can investigate.

Likewise, if there are any other issues you come across from this version update, please let us know!

[Staren]

Camate! Much appreciation for the response. I can see where the issue being brought up in the news section on the maintenances would be a way for us to know. In some aspects I can give on that issue.

Does the community team still read the premiere sites? These crashes were an are occuring in places other than npc vending. Its happening in the middle of most every time sensitive event. For me and a fellow ls mate it was during providence watcher. Others its Voidwatch or salvage or dyna or nni etc. You get no warning like a normal r0. It just goes to the black error message screen.

This is still occuring after the fix in the am eastern time yesterday. The jp reps post seems to imply they know its there and dont know whats causing it. Though i know google translate cant be reliable thats part of the reason we want to know whats going on.

[Camate]

Just to confirm so we can relay the information, these crashes are occurring when accessing inventory? What type of actions are being performed when the crash occurs?

[Mirage]

Does the community team still read the premiere sites? These crashes were an are occuring in places other than npc vending. Its happening in the middle of most every time sensitive event. For me and a fellow ls mate it was during providence watcher. Others its Voidwatch or salvage or dyna or nni etc. You get no warning like a normal r0. It just goes to the black error message screen.

So it looks like a sort of disconnect from the server then, rather than the client actually crashing? Just thought that should be clarified, so that the reps aren't relaying incorrect information.

I have had some strange disconnects lately, but they aren't frequent and they happened seemingly at the same frequency both before and after the update. Sometimes, I would be disconnected from just some of the FF11 servers, but not all.

This would manifest itself as everything in the zone (mobs, PCs, etc) cease movement and actions. At the same time, I could still see HP values decrease as the mob was hitting me, even if the mob did not appear to take any actions on my screen. If in a town, I would still receive /shout and other chat messages, even though everyone on my screen stopped moving.

To me, that seems like I had been disconnected from the zone server, but not the character server. No R0-message would accompany these disconnects. Eventually, I would get the black screen error message you're mentioning.

Does this sound similar to the disconnects you are having?

[Staren]

Mine are seemingly instantaneous and so were my fiances. She was sitting in town mid response to an ls chat question and crashed no gradual lockdown like an r0. I was popping job abilities in the beguiling radiance fight right before we ran into attack. Chatlogs still working and it seems only one of us disconnected at a time so it wasnt router/network related. Ls mate dropped out middle of prov watcher fight same way not doing any inventory related actions they were on cor most likely in the middle of rolls.

[Staren]

This only began after update for us and it matches the reports on bg/xiah after update for other users.

[scaevola]

These standards. ISO, SOX, CMMI are not medical field only standards. SE is an international company so they are not required by any means to fulfill them. Don't mistake best practices with the fact that one of the companies I worked at as being medical. These practices are followed at the State Dept of Education which is a non profit organization. Why? Because they are best practices. You're right I dont decide them just the entire software development standards used by most every North American company. So try to act high and mighty but SE does not measure up to some of the smallest standards American companies hold themselves to. You can white knight all you want but trying to pull arguments about computing basics methodologies and policies you have no experience with and have probably never read or tried to implement yourselves is just armchair quarterbacking and white knighting SE. The fact that you don't know what Change Management is or does, which is obvious by the fact that you don't realize that my experience is relevant, shows you probably have a minute understanding of an SDLC or a proper release cycle at an actual professional company and you are probably someone who works out of your basement writing code with your friends. That or you work at a company so small they don't even register well enough to be traded publicly.

Secondly, the "new content" provided in this update was kupowers and meeble burrows. Neither of which were game changers and none of you will see the rewards for at least a month if the place they suggest the good drops comes from is the final boss. Its been three days you havent honestly made enough "progress" for it to be countable. Not everyone cares about this stuff as much as you official forums casual players do and most of us would prefer being able to continue content that truly matters like NNI, Legion and Prov that you probably aren't good enough to get into or complete anyways. Also had they listened to the outcry from their fanbase and rolled back immediately this issue wouldnt still be around and no progress would be lost. Really the biggest issue is how did this release get past their QA team and the test servers without any of this being noticed. The latter is more believable with <100 people actually active on there regularly.

Show me some IT credentials at a real company and maybe I will take you seriously because you are obviously unfamiliar with the common standards being pushed on companies across the United States at a bare minimum and some of the standards such as ISO are international standards.

given that you are writing multiple paragraphs about how scandalous, just scandalous and unprofessional some errant crashing is and yet here you are, still paying your subscription fee, i think it's pretty safe to say SE has all the information they need as to what you will and will not tolerate as a consumer

[Rosalie]

We had a ton of disconnects when we tried doing Legion on Tuesday night. It was so bad that we actually cancelled all further events for the evening, and I crashed as soon as I zoned into my lavishly decorated Mog House back in Windurst...

[Kriegsgott]

Just to confirm so we can relay the information, these crashes are occurring when accessing inventory? What type of actions are being performed when the crash occurs?

i'm going to crash soon because you managed to ignore all the campaign threads for a week......

[Plasticleg]

Camate, they are happening while doing anything within the game.

VW, crash
MH, crash
inventory, crash
spells going off, crash
warping, crash
trading npcs, crash
zoning, crash.

You get the point, Camate.

Something happened that by accidentally the whole FFXI in this update.

[Logandor]

A friend of mine who is on xbox says any time he tries to check bazaars he dc's still. He can barely make it through Jeuno before a freeze up and in besieged he dc's at the end of it when we normally go through the cut scene.

[Byrth]

If you're going to start reporting bugs to SE, Camate, this is kind of an issue too:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/27481-Certain-Blue-Magic-Spells-and-Weaponskill-s-Additional-Effect-Accuracy-%28Still-III%29?p=364203&viewfull=1#post364203

[Asymptotic]

I especially like the part where the GM tells Proth to visit community sites for information on Blue Mage.

[Arcon]

I especially like the part where the GM tells Proth to visit community sites for information on Blue Mage.

Not everyone knows how nutty he is about Blue Mage.

[Staren]

given that you are writing multiple paragraphs about how scandalous, just scandalous and unprofessional some errant crashing is and yet here you are, still paying your subscription fee, i think it's pretty safe to say SE has all the information they need as to what you will and will not tolerate as a consumer

All hail the troll king. Master of hyperbole. Revel in his original use of sarcasm and lack of reading comprehension. His inability to infer.

It's too late to cancel for this month and notice how I requested subscription fees be refunded for the downtime. I've already paid for it and I haven't received my money back. I can still cancel before the next subscription fee is taken out. I am glad though to see some response from the community team and effort to get this passed on. It's not scandalous or anything hyperbolic its just not best business practices and it provides a poor customer relation when things like this come up. As a customer its my right to give feedback.

[Washburn]

I remember people crashing back when they introduced the "A Crystalline Prophecy" expansion. The people that didnt have the expansion were crashing when they checked the people that had the body armor duetp the dats not being added correctly (i think). Im assuming this whole crash problem has something to do with the mobs dropping wrong items, an whatnot. Possibly when you do any action involving an item, if its having a conflict of items, i could see why it would crash.

Maybe not, i dunno. Just something to suggest.

[Xilk]

I had 3 crashes right after the update. I was using blu mage. They all happened when I was doing a self-skillchain, so I was hitting macros in quick succession and swapping alot of gear. It happened once in abyssea Misareaux vs colibri, and twice in dynamis - xarcabard vs some demons. It was always while I was doing a self skillchain.

I have not observed it since that time, but I haven't been playing blu either. and there has been maintenance since then.

[Daniel]

Just to note, I've had it crash several times during combat when I was auto attacking, also it some times crashed when I was swapping gear via macros.

[Babekeke]

Game just crashed on me as I exited my Mog House.

Edit: and again, about an hour later. also leaving mog house in port jeuno.

[Vivivivi]

Perhaps it is just me, but I seemed to notice fanatic's drink not working in Abyssea or Walk of Echoes. Did not override with fool's drink, was hit by regular physical attacks, and took damage. This happening for anyone else?

[scaevola]

All hail the troll king.

About time, really!

[Demon6324236]

Perhaps it is just me, but I seemed to notice fanatic's drink not working in Abyssea or Walk of Echoes. Did not override with fool's drink, was hit by regular physical attacks, and took damage. This happening for anyone else?

If I'm not mistaken, its always seemed like this for me. : /

[Sarick]

I think the points are.


Bad development procedure.
Bad delayed communication.
Bad internal company policies.
Lack of customer confidence.
Lack of quality customer support.


Fix these and you (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/27568-In-regards-to-the-lack-of-communication-on-the-NA-side-over-the-update-issues?p=365038&viewfull=1#post365038) have a winning combination. Please CLICK ME (http://www.iso.org/iso/home.html), CLICK ME (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9000) and, CLICK ME TO! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_9126)


http://www.iso.org/iso/iso-focusplus_8-2012.jpg

Oh dear, this could explain everything :( LINK (http://search.square-enix.com/eng/search_eng.x?q=ISO+certification&x=23&y=10&ie=utf-8&page=1) however, this looks nice CRITIAL LINK (http://www.square-enix.com/eng/company/philosophy.html) ;)

The rest of the chatter is meaningless, if the goal is to convey whats in the list above.

Kudos towards Staren for stepping up as a qualified field professional.

[Yinnyth]

We're ISO, the International Organization for Standardization. We develop and publish International Standards.

And they have yet to develop a standard on how an acronym is supposed to work.

On a more serious note, I have yet to experience this bug. Waaaaay back in the day, I would get crashes like this every now and then after an update, but not after this one for some reason. We just did some Nyzul last night and no one redlinked. We did ADL the night before, no one redlinked. Just fantastically lucky? Or maybe it's unique to certain hardware/software setups.

[Sarick]

And they have yet to develop a standard on how an acronym is supposed to work.

Thanks for reading #50. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/27568-In-regards-to-the-lack-of-communication-on-the-NA-side-over-the-update-issues?p=365279&viewfull=1#post365279) You made me laugh so hard. :D

[Camate]

Greetings!

We've passed on all the information about the crashes and disconnections you have been experiencing. Once we get some information back we will be sure to let you all know. Apologies for this, but we appreciate your patience!

[Rambus]

This problem really did not bother me personally till abyssea the other day and I hostenly thought it would been changed by now after me quitting for a year. Overall i am dispointed in the direction the game has went since i left but I'll stop with that there.

I really REALLY hate how you d/c when entering abyssea and if you d/c and don't log in time you get kicked out for 1 hr and lose all that time. I almost experienced this because of the cronic d/c thing but luckily I got status with like under 1 minute to spare.

The change I was looking for was abyssea not count down when on d/c or give more then 5 minutes to get status. I think it is a simple change not to have that lobby countdown or make it like 20 mins or something if you are afraid with people bazaar sit there (Why people would afk in abyssea lobby is beyond me though)

Why is that 5 minte there for abyssea lobby to get status? what is the reason for it? because i hate being kicked out and losing my time and waiting 1 hr to enter because of a d/c.

far as ISO.. umm:
We're ISO, the International Organization for Standardization. We develop and publish International Standards.

International Standard Organization ?

[Nerji]

Why is that 5 minte there for abyssea lobby to get status? what is the reason for it? because i hate being kicked out and losing my time and waiting 1 hr to enter because of a d/c.

This happened to a friend of mine a few weeks ago, she logged back in, got kicked out... then she reentered straight away. I had the same fear but guess they fixed it ages ago

[Arcon]

If you leave Abyssea with less than 5 minute on your stone, you're locked out, and only then. This applies to the lobby as well. Normally you can just leave the lobby and re-enter straight away.

[Alerith]

Guys, I'm clearly the best WHM ever. I mean, I am a nurse in real life, so clearly I know how to properly apply a cure spell better than any of these other idiots.

Sacrasm Man, AWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

[Demon6324236]

Greetings!

We've passed on all the information about the crashes and disconnections you have been experiencing. Once we get some information back we will be sure to let you all know. Apologies for this, but we appreciate your patience!

Camate... go look at this thread! (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/27182-Unaugmented-AF2-2-Storage) Please for the love of Altana reply to the thing rather than ignoring us! >:O

[vienne]

I think the points are.


Bad development procedure.
Bad delayed communication.
Bad internal company policies.
Lack of customer confidence.
Lack of quality customer support.


Fix these and you (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/27568-In-regards-to-the-lack-of-communication-on-the-NA-side-over-the-update-issues?p=365038&viewfull=1#post365038) have a winning combination. Please CLICK ME (http://www.iso.org/iso/home.html), CLICK ME (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9000) and, CLICK ME TO! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_9126)


http://www.iso.org/iso/iso-focusplus_8-2012.jpg

Oh dear, this could explain everything :( LINK (http://search.square-enix.com/eng/search_eng.x?q=ISO+certification&x=23&y=10&ie=utf-8&page=1) however, this looks nice CRITIAL LINK (http://www.square-enix.com/eng/company/philosophy.html) ;)

You seriously think that an international, stock market listed company as SE doesnt have an internal or external audit once in a while >.> thats almost as cute when you thought the Belgium and German flag were the same <3

[Sarick]

You seriously think that an international, stock market listed company as SE doesnt have an internal or external audit once in a while >.> thats almost as cute when you thought the Belgium and German flag were the same <3

Wow, You have an attitude like I slapped your baby for pointing out it has a long nose and poop in its diaper. The links on that square holding site has their auditing process listed. As ignorant as you act I know this and read through them. It's you who don't understand most companies get ISO certified so a 3rd party can mitigate the internal issues. Genius, the standards make it so a companies internal policies aren't overlooked because of a conflict of interest.

You're talking about a system that isn't certified so internal issues have no reason to be enforced in all situations. Tell me this, where are the customer satisfaction ratings for the online services, Look at the better BBB (http://www.la.bbb.org/business-reviews/Video-Games-Retail-Dealer/Square-Enix-Inc-in-El-Segundo-CA-13168063) they have an A+ rating as a software company

Here I made a LINK (http://www.customerservicescoreboard.com/Square+Enix) Lets see if people bite.

Now let's look at another 3rd party link (http://www.contacthelp.com/directory/Shopping/Electronics/Square+Enix?ListingID=4425) in general. I didn't look at the 1,700,000 complaint links when I did a search on google. I guess people will always hate something.



Greetings!

We've passed on all the information about the crashes and disconnections you have been experiencing. Once we get some information back we will be sure to let you all know. Apologies for this, but we appreciate your patience!

It's not the company as a whole that's in these it's more or less the online and playonline that have the complaints. The reps in this forum seem to be trying hard but I doubt they have the resources to fix the internal issues that are holding them back. This is why ISO certification is important. It certifies that comprehensive polices are in place to protect the interest of everyone and insure that audits are done in a professional manner.

Don't get me wrong this isn't only about lack of communication it's about the over all issues and lack of communication stood out.

Also, isn't this the NA English forums and you're an EU player right? So, support offices etc. aren't even the same for us. You're in a completely different region with totally different regional management. You might not have dealt with the company in this region. Last, Why start a fight with me after I left the topic? Did you want this to drag out or are you looking for someone to argue with again?

[Byrth]

SE used to get an F rating from the Californian BBB until they became an "Accredited Business," a title that means "I pay the BBB." The BBB is kind of a racket.
http://www.bbb.org/us/Business-Accreditation-Standards/
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan/21/business/fi-lazarus21

[Sarick]

SE used to get an F rating from the Californian BBB until they became an "Accredited Business," a title that means "I pay the BBB." The BBB is kind of a racket.
http://www.bbb.org/us/Business-Accreditation-Standards/
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan/21/business/fi-lazarus21

Hehe, I didn't post this even though I knew about it. I didn't have the backing. Where are the links showing the F rating? People need to see the evidence or they'll say "It didn't happen." You'll also have people saying "This just means they improved." :o

[Byrth]

I can't seem to get the wayback machine to work for that site, but if you look at past Alla debates you should be able to find references to it. Also, now that I think about it the rating probably wasn't "F" but "unsatisfactory" or whatever they used to say when they only had two ratings. They were letter-graded pretty low when they started using letters, though. I'd say C at the most.

Then suddenly SE pays them some money and is an A-rated company! :D

Such a great system!

[Glamdring]

The latest JP Update from the Dev Team appears to say they have no clue what is causing these crashes that still persist. Linkshell events are having to be cancelled due to an inability to trust that their members wont magically vanish in the middle of the fight either causing a loss for the group or their member to miss out on spoils. NNI is risky to attempt as the time sensitivity of the run cannot afford for a DD to DC in the middle of the run especially since some of your lamp floors require they be in attendance.

If you dont know what the issue is you have one of two options. You roll back the entire update because something you did blew everything up. Option two you refund our subscription fees for the time the game is unreliable/unplayable. I have experience in the software field and this is not acceptable behavior for any company. I dont mean to be rude moreso I am intent on being blunt. My life in game was a million times better before this update and what you instituted I didnt want/need and can live without for the duration of my remaining time in the game. It would be nice to be able to play the game again.

Welcome to the hell that some of us (see the bugs thread) have been dealing with for 10+ months. There hasn't been 1 single post about an intent to fix the DCs. There HAS been posts saying 11 isn't certified on x card with driver version y and above. Judging by the passage of time since those postings it is IRREFUTABLE that there is not even an intention to fix those issues, so basically to the players its 'nice knowing you, please keep your $ coming and don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out". I've actually devoted the lion's share of my time for the last month to WoW, since it at least runs on equipment built/code written past 2007.

That said, you seem to know your way around code. Any idea where I can find archived drivers for an nvidia Geforce 9400 from PRIOR to the November late 2011 release which coincided with my inability to play more than 120 minutes at a stretch (generally closer to 45-70 minutes). also, any advice on switching back and forth between the old and new drivers on the fly so I can still use my PC for modern software applications when I DON'T play 11? Tired of not being able to be counted on during group activities because we KNOW with absolute certainty that I will be booted at whatever point the action is hottest? Seriously, I'm the "crowd control" specialist for my group, they kinda depend on me, and I liked that I WAS dependable before that time.

[Rambus]

I made a few complaints to the BBB when they had a lack of response about my banned mule account. Like i said before the only reason anything would call it rmt was from moving stuff like nin tools from that account to another because of the expanding mog options (might of been around when that second mog bag came out, not the first one that required buying a token)


Anyways BBB back then gave them an F because they would not even respond to them. (I know this because my first few BBB complaints had no reply from SE. It was part of the F warning that you might run into that) Then when they respond with "It is not in our policies to tell you if we are really investigating" they got bumped up to a B something.

Awww now they are A+ how cute


This happened to a friend of mine a few weeks ago, she logged back in, got kicked out... then she reentered straight away. I had the same fear but guess they fixed it ages ago
lose save time?

[RAIST]

www.guru3d.com had a pretty big archive of drivers...should be able to find something there.

uggh.. they've completely redone their downloads section now...used to be able to pick ATI or nVidia drivers and browse them all by release number by brand...now you have to pick a month/year for release and you get links to everything that came out that month. Not sure I like the new format....guess it will grow on me eventually. Here's a direct link to the archives page:

http://www.guru3d.com/files_archive

[Sarick]

I made a few complaints to the BBB when they had a lack of response about my banned mule account. Like i said before the only reason anything would call it rmt was from moving stuff like nin tools from that account to another because of the expanding mog options (might of been around when that second mog bag came out, not the first one that required buying a token)


Anyways BBB back then gave them an F because they would not even respond to them. (I know this because my first few BBB complaints had no reply from SE. It was part of the F warning that you might run into that) Then when they respond with "It is not in our policies to tell you if we are really investigating" they got bumped up to a B something.

Awww now they are A+ how cute.

You aso must realize cases get closed if one party doesn't respond in a time frame. Like if you report a double billing and no response is made they'll send you an email. From what I understand If each end don't keep responding to them they'll just close the case and deem it resolved giving the busyness the benefits no negative ratings.

You could always go here (http://www.complaintsboard.com/?search=square+enix) then.

The www.customerservicescoreboard.com (http://www.customerservicescoreboard.com/Square+Enix) has no positive negative or employee comments.

[Glamdring]

www.guru3d.com had a pretty big archive of drivers...should be able to find something there.

uggh.. they've completely redone their downloads section now...used to be able to pick ATI or nVidia drivers and browse them all by release number by brand...now you have to pick a month/year for release and you get links to everything that came out that month. Not sure I like the new format....guess it will grow on me eventually. Here's a direct link to the archives page:

http://www.guru3d.com/files_archive

thanks Raist, nvidia was useless, and I gave up searching after going 17 pages deep on search engines without finding anything.

Still doesn't address what a major pain in the ass it'll be switching between the 2 if I wish to continue with 11, assuming the driver fix works (I think it was you who pointed out there was some Direct X involvement as well). Last time I tried to downgrade drivers I lost netflix playback and had to do a Silverlight reinstall, so I imagine it will be quite the production. Only reasons I'm going to try is a. I'm a stubborn asshole, and b. I don't want to lose my interaction time with my game friends.