Auto-attack ranged attack

[Rubicant82]

Okay so here is a silly question and quasi request:
Why does ranger not shoot their bow/crossbow as their auto attack?

I personally would love to see this as an option for this class (and maybe COR too I'm not to sure about their play style though). I'm newish to playing ranger and in other MMOs the ranged classes all auto-attack with their bow/crossbow at range and change to melee when closer to enemies. I know this would mean the consumption of more ammunition but honestly that doesn't matter to me. selecting ranged attack and making macros that needs to be pressed constantly are much more annoying than having to buy more ammo in my personal opinion.

[Mirage]

Agreed. Let it be a stance of sorts. Activate a 10 second cooldown ability to start it, activate the ability again to stop it.

Although, that sounds like it would suck if you got hit with amnesia. Maybe this JA should just not be affected by amnesia?

[Babekeke]

I don't see why it needs to be a JA. Auto attack when out of range and facing the mob, you fire ranged. Auto-attack when in melee range, you melee. If you want to ranged in melee range, use it manually. If you're out of melee range and want to stop firing ammo, turn.

[Mirage]

It doesn't have to be anything, it was just a suggestion.

[hiko]

make it an option in the attack menu with a text command (/automaticrangeattack /ara)

and while under this mode show the player with ranged weapon in hands instead of melee weapons
...

[katz]

Some people use different ammo....not everyone thinks this idea should happen

[Mirage]

Which is why I suggested a toggle. Don't want to shoot really expensive ammo automatically? Just turn it off and do it manually.

[Rubicant82]

I understand there are different ammos, which is why the ability should be able to toggled on and off as stated above. Because I know I would hate to refarm the special arrows, bolts, and bullets I have accumulated over the years. I still wish the ability to have it automatically shoot though would be there. Because lets face it this game has never been about button mashing, and that is what it feels like spamming a /ra macro every 3 seconds to get a shot off.

[Lokithor]

Different ammo shouldn't matter. The ranged stance would shoot whatever ammo that is equipped. You want to change ammo, just equip the new ammo. Want to change it back? Re-equip the previous ammo.

[Rubicant82]

Different ammo shouldn't matter. The ranged stance would shoot whatever ammo that is equipped. You want to change ammo, just equip the new ammo. Want to change it back? Re-equip the previous ammo.

Ah but it does matter because there are Rare/EX ammo one use with Unlimited Shot, so it would behoove us the ability to pause the auto attack change ammo weaponskill change back to tp ammo and resume. You don't want your rare/ex arrow to be shot accidentally by the auto-attack shot.

[FrankReynolds]

Different ammo shouldn't matter. The ranged stance would shoot whatever ammo that is equipped. You want to change ammo, just equip the new ammo. Want to change it back? Re-equip the previous ammo.

The problem is when you use a special ability with a r/e ammo that you would be very sad if you lost, auto attack may kick in before you (or your cleverly written macro) can swap back to your normal ammo.

Even with an on off switch for the ability, there would still be a fairly high likelihood that the macro could misfire and leave auto-attack turned on.

An easy fix would be to make it so that those types of ammo could not be used for normal attacks (I believe they did this with certain items).

[Nala]

Hmmm not entirely opposed to the idea however would retool the gearing concept of rng as it stands, with an auto attack type situation you'd have to full time snapshot gear to ensure you were getting full time effect of the "haste" which would detract from your STP build.

As it stands now a ranged attack is treated much like casting a spell where you can equip your snapshot (fast cast/haste/cure cast time/elemental celerity) gear just prior to initiating the action and then swaping to STP/RATK gear (mab/int gear) in order to maximize your attack (spell) potency/effectiveness.

In any case addition of auto range attack would likely require a complete overhaul of how ranged attacks are processed, this however may not be a bad thing but i do not trust the dev team currently to handle such a change without gimping STP builds, that is to say forcing players to hybrid their snapshot set with their STP sets thus lowering TP gain and Rattk for the actual post shot phase.

[Afania]

Hmmm not entirely opposed to the idea however would retool the gearing concept of rng as it stands, with an auto attack type situation you'd have to full time snapshot gear to ensure you were getting full time effect of the "haste" which would detract from your STP build.

As it stands now a ranged attack is treated much like casting a spell where you can equip your snapshot (fast cast/haste/cure cast time/elemental celerity) gear just prior to initiating the action and then swaping to STP/RATK gear (mab/int gear) in order to maximize your attack (spell) potency/effectiveness.

In any case addition of auto range attack would likely require a complete overhaul of how ranged attacks are processed, this however may not be a bad thing but i do not trust the dev team currently to handle such a change without gimping STP builds, that is to say forcing players to hybrid their snapshot set with their STP sets thus lowering TP gain and Rattk for the actual post shot phase.

If melees can wear haste during TP phrase and "gimp STP", I see no reason that ranged attack jobs can't wear haste and gimp STP for it.

Atm all that snapshot precast set pretty much just testing player's lag or whether they use 3rd pt tool or not. If you're using regular macro, fat chances are that snapshot macro may make you shoot slower if you're gonna click macro 3 times before fire.

Same thing if you happened to lag a bit before fire too, and yes, lag does happen if you're not living in JP.

Ranged auto-attack will increase output, probably more than "losing STP" IMO, when you add all the lag between each shot together.

[Lokithor]

Atm all that snapshot precast set pretty much just testing player's lag or whether they use 3rd pt tool or not. If you're using regular macro, fat chances are that snapshot macro may make you shoot slower if you're gonna click macro 3 times before fire.

Absolutely. Having a ranged attack stance would finally make all of the snapshot gear useful.

As for switching R/E ammo in and out, I don't see how a ranged attack stance would make it any more risky than currently (coming from one that has lost so many it isn't funny) and if designed specifically to keep this in mind (unlike what exists now) could easily be made better.

[SpankWustler]

Hmmm not entirely opposed to the idea however would retool the gearing concept of rng as it stands, with an auto attack type situation you'd have to full time snapshot gear to ensure you were getting full time effect of the "haste" which would detract from your STP build.

As it stands now a ranged attack is treated much like casting a spell where you can equip your snapshot (fast cast/haste/cure cast time/elemental celerity) gear just prior to initiating the action and then swaping to STP/RATK gear (mab/int gear) in order to maximize your attack (spell) potency/effectiveness.

In any case addition of auto range attack would likely require a complete overhaul of how ranged attacks are processed, this however may not be a bad thing but i do not trust the dev team currently to handle such a change without gimping STP builds, that is to say forcing players to hybrid their snapshot set with their STP sets thus lowering TP gain and Rattk for the actual post shot phase.

Unless someone presently uses a macro that fires multiple times with the absolute perfect delay figured into it, I'm sure the gain in attack speed from eliminating human error would outweigh the loss in attack speed from removing a few pieces of Snapshot equipment.

It's great to use the right tool for every situation. But, these jobs get relatively few Snapshot pieces of greatly varying quality (http://www.ffxiah.com/search/item?&description=Snapshot#adv) (and Velocity Shot for Ranger only, in the place of Haste and March and Embrava and Haste Samba and Hasso and...) in the place of the myriad melee options for delay reduction. I'm not convinced losing use of the worst of this stuff would be a big loss.

[Mirage]

The problem with macros that fire arrows as fast as the delay allows, however, is that whenever you get a Rapid Shot proc, you lose the time saved because your macro won't fire the next arrow/bullet/bolt sooner anyway.

So either that job trait is useless if you choose to use macros, or forces you to fire every ranged attack manually, which is incredibly annoying and makes it more troublesome to talk to other players while keeping your damage up.

so guys
*rangedattack*
what should
*rangedattack*
we attack
*rangedattack*
next?
*rangedattack*

[Nala]

Unless someone presently uses a macro that fires multiple times with the absolute perfect delay figured into it, I'm sure the gain in attack speed from eliminating human error would outweigh the loss in attack speed from removing a few pieces of Snapshot equipment.

It's great to use the right tool for every situation. But, these jobs get relatively few Snapshot pieces of greatly varying quality (http://www.ffxiah.com/search/item?&description=Snapshot#adv) (and Velocity Shot for Ranger only, in the place of Haste and March and Embrava and Haste Samba and Hasso and...) in the place of the myriad melee options for delay reduction. I'm not convinced losing use of the worst of this stuff would be a big loss.

Well aware... Annihilator ranger here with all but a foot based snapshot piece, the only options available to the slot are Khepri with augments or a drop off the final chamber of legion (for which there is no testing to prove if it is better than augmented khepri...) something my linkshell is unable participate due to our small size.

[saevel]

Just change the "Ranged Attack" menu to do an Auto-Ranged-Attack similar to what Attack does for melee. You would draw your weapon and the battle music would start.

Remember people, use KISS otherwise you'll get unintended consequences.

[Rambus]

I am starting to think there shouldn't even be rare/ex ammo, i mean it has the same timer as double shot-.-

Why does there even need to have the different ammos like that? What is the point other then laughing at people that nerd rage over shooting PPAs (Sorry i am using the ammo of my time) It also happens to be the last type of ammo I stopped caring abut it since rngs is not used much these days anyway-.-

[Sarick]

What about

/autoshoot "Wooden Arrow"
/autothrow "Boomerang"
or
/autoranged ammo "Wooden Arrow"
/autoranged range "Boomerang"

Basically, it'd ONLY auto shoot/throw the type of arrow, bullet or ranged weapon you select. If that item isn't equipped in ranged, ammo or you're facing away from enemy it simply won't auto-shoot/throw when engaged.

PROBLEM SOLVED.

If you like this idea please comment, If you think it'd break things please comment.

[hiko]

Just change the "Ranged Attack" menu to do an Auto-Ranged-Attack similar to what Attack does for melee. You would draw your weapon and the battle music would start.


nope, when I use a range attack to pull a mob i don't want to keep range attacking it nor engage it.

[Sarick]

nope, when I use a range attack to pull a mob i don't want to keep range attacking it nor engage it.

None of these in my idea should affect you then. The engage part might be an issue but at least you won't auto attack unless in combat mode and having the right ranged gear equipped.

[hiko]

None of these in my idea should affect you then. The engage part might be an issue but at least you won't auto attack unless in combat mode and having the right ranged gear equipped. agree was just replying to saevel (the stuff i quoted)

[Rubicant82]

well what about leave /ra alone so it shoots a single ranged attack, but add and /raa that starts the auto attack so that way you can still use /ra to pull.

[Ophannus]

SE said years ago that this is impossible for several reasons. Would also mean you'd need to engage to shoot and would no longer be able to shoot while not engaged i.e how other jobs pull.

[Mirage]

They could just let the game have two different ranged attack modes. Keep the old mode for manual ranged attacks, make the auto-attack mode an entirely new attack mode available when on ranger or subbing ranger. Just don't reuse any of the existing code for ranged attacks and put this in addition to that.

[Afania]

SE said years ago that this is impossible for several reasons. Would also mean you'd need to engage to shoot and would no longer be able to shoot while not engaged i.e how other jobs pull.

How the job pull is not a big problem to solve at all, it's more about changing ranged attack mechanic will need to rebalance A LOT of things work in this game, knowing SE they probably won't bother.

[Mirage]

Another idea could just be to let us queue up ranged attacks. Using /qranged instead of /ranged three times in rapid succession could make the game server queue up three ranged attacks with the absolute minimum delay in between each attack.

With that, you could make a macro something like:

/qrange
/qrange
/qrange
/equip ammo "cool shit"
/ws Slugwinder's Radiance <t> <wait 1>
/equip ammo "cheap shit"

It would be almost as involving as melee attacking is!

Alternatively, it could let us input a value after the command to specify the number of shots to perform. Inputting a new ability/spell/equip/whatever command would cancel the current attack queue, so that if you made an attack queue of 15 attacks and halfway through found out that you wanted to do a WS or Barrage, executing those commands would remove the remaining queued up commands, allowing you to do whatever else you wanted to do.

[Okipuit]

Greetings,

We definitely understand the desire to have automatic ranged attacks and/or a toggle to switch it on and off. As the system is now, if we were to implement auto-ranged attacks, characters would be unable to use weapon skills or abilities during the ranged attack animation and the auto-ranged attack would interfere with the priority of the other abilities/WS. To address that issue would take a huge overhaul to the core system, so unfortunately it's not as simple as you might hope. However, we do understand there is a desire for an automatic ranged attack, and if it should change, we'll be sure to let you know.

[Mirage]

I understand that it would interfere with other commands, as you cannot execute a job ability while a ranged attack is in progress, but I would be fine with that. We would need to take extra care to turn off the mode whenever we wanted to do something else, but I think that is an acceptable trade-off.

If that isn't a good option, would it be possible to go the command-queue route instead? It is not auto-ranged, but more like semi-automatic. The user inputs a command for each ranged attack they want to make, but could do this faster than the ranged attacks would occur, and the commands that were entered too soon would be executed the exact moment the current ranged attack (plus delay) was over.

If the player at any time would enter a different command than the queue-command, the entire ranged attack command queue would be cleared, enabling the user to perform normal commands again after the current ranged attack was over.

[Babekeke]

With up to 6 ranged attacks on 1 macro now, is this really still necessary? The only thing that I can think of is that without auto-ranged attack, rapid shot appears to be completely useless due to your macro going off at a set timer regardless of whether RS kicked in or not.

[Mirage]

And that is one of the issues I sought out to solve. Additionally, while macros simplify things, official macros only work with whole seconds (at least I think so!) for wait commands, while actual delay might be anywhere between .0 to .9, so you lose potential dps there as well.

[Helel]

They really need to fix the cost of ammo before they do anything with auto-attack. I absolutely love the delay reduction that they've implemented, but I don't love how much more ammo I use now.

[Rambus]

Increase damage so it is worth using ammo? *see sig :P*
Anyways it used to be like that, got a few nerfs while now SE is fine with GS being overpowered soooo... ya confused

[Rambus]

You know i been thinking...
How come WoW can do this and ffxi can't ? XD

[SpankWustler]

Thanks for the information!

I'm disappointed that automation of Ranged Attacks is extremely unlikely to happen, but this isn't entirely bad news.

I'm glad to hear the Development Bros understand that people want to engage with ranged attacks as they might melee and that the two systems are drastically different, even if a change is extraordinarily unlikely. That understanding bodes well for any possible changes that might be made to Ranged Attack rate or Rapid Shot or such.


However, we do understand there is a desire for an automatic ranged attack, and if it should change, we'll be sure to let you know.

I'm not sure what this line means exactly, though. I can get two drastically different readings out of it.

"If it is discovered that Ranged Attacks can be automated somehow without making rivers suck up the sea and voices of the dead wail their ghostly laments from below the earth, we know you guys would be into that. So, if that does happen somehow, we'll let you know how implementation is going."

OR

"If Ranged Attacks are adjusted again, presumably in some way other than automation since that is impossible, we'll let you know."

[kingfury]

Greetings,

We definitely understand the desire to have automatic ranged attacks and/or a toggle to switch it on and off. As the system is now, if we were to implement auto-ranged attacks, characters would be unable to use weapon skills or abilities during the ranged attack animation and the auto-ranged attack would interfere with the priority of the other abilities/WS. To address that issue would take a huge overhaul to the core system, so unfortunately it's not as simple as you might hope. However, we do understand there is a desire for an automatic ranged attack, and if it should change, we'll be sure to let you know.
----------------------------
Always good to know the Dev team understands the players have a want for new functionality, so koodos for that. However, I'm not very clear as to how adding an "auto-ranged attack" functionality would effect players any differently than the current ranged attack and spell casting systems do currently. We can't execute any actions/weapon skills during a ranged attack currently. We have to stay completely still until the attack has been fired. We already have very simple ways of managing the fact that we cannot execute any other abilities/weapon skills during ranged attack and spell cast built into the current battle system.

As it stands currently, if a player wants to cancel either a ranged attack or a spell cast in progress, they simply can physically move or rest(/heal) and the action will be interrupted allowing them the opportunity to use another ability or weapon skill shortly thereafter. I fail to see how an auto-ranged attack would effect us any differently especially if we could quickly toggle the functionality on/off similar to auto-melee attacks.
Should an auto-range attack be in the middle of a firing cycle and the player wants to interrupt the shot, they could either move around a bit to interrupt the shot, or theoretically use the Ranged menu to toggle the functionality off, or could quickly use a possible "/range off" macro command to cancel the firing cycle. This wouldn't be game breaking since we're pretty much functioning this way as is, except we just have to move to interrupt our shots and be patient for the following 1-2 seconds to use another command.

[Mirage]

You know i been thinking...
How come WoW can do this and ffxi can't ? XD

Because they coded their game with this in mind from the beginning of.

[Babekeke]

I wonder if a queueing system is possible?

While doing a ranged attack, hit your ranged attack macro, and it will queue it and use it as soon as possible. This means you're not missing out when rapid shot kicks in, and guaranteed not to damage your DPS. It also means there's no lock-out when you've done enough ranged attacks and want to use JA/WS.

Many other FF games have had this queueing system (where they had the bar going across, and when it reached the end your next action went off), so it's certainly something that SE knows how to do, it's just whether it's possible to implement it into this spaghetti coding or not.

[Mirage]

That sounds almost exactly like what I suggested earlier.

[Godofgods]

While that does have a tech sense limitation, it might still be possible.

Unlike auto-attack, and Auto-ranged attack would not be used as a primary/main source of damage. Their wouldn't be a ton of ppl trying to use that in combat to defeat mobs.

The main use of the auto-ranged attack would be an aid to help skill up ranged attack. (since 424 levels worth of skill ups, done by manually shooting one arrow at a time is mentally excruciating, not to mention a time sink thats at a high level even for this final fantasy.) Using an auto-ranged attack feature for skilling up would not have the problem of entering other command in the middle, or ws'ing, since their not really using that.

Honestly i feel an auto-ranged attack with a mear toggle on/off method, would be more then helpful to players. Despite any of the command problems the Dev's listed. I know id be willing to deal with those issues for this feature.

[Bahamut]

Solution for no auto attack: A "Permanant Double Shot" buff.

Heres why:


I used to think auto attack was a good idea until I looked deeper into the mechanics.

I enjoy the freedom of no auto attack, but on the other hand, I think square enix should make Double Shot for ranged weapons a "Permenant Double Shot" Buff to make up for this defect in the system. (Optionaly making Velocity Shot buff a duration buff instead)

I kidna feel that because of the need to make up for missed macro started attacks or low damage single attacks because of the duration of time without having double shot on and the unavoidable aspect of macro fumbling/timing or just plain human error and positioning for true shot, that rangers are not putting out the same non-burst/"average damage" as other average geared jobs. This is the reason I would suggest a need for a "Permanent Double Shot".

It almost feels like Rangers have to use huge "Burst Damage" to make up for the differance of the regular "Average Damage" another job would have done. Which creates a huge amount of hate disproportionate to "average damage" over time.

What "Permanant Double Shot" would do, is fill in the need for lost "average damage", and reduce the need for "burst damage" to make up for lost "average damage", kind of like a monks two hand hits. This would allow "burst damage" to be free'd up and used as bonus damage comparable to the quality of ammo and gil/time spent more then other jobs.

The downside right now is that as the ranger becomes more powerful and draws alot more agro from those insane bursts of damage needed to make up the average damage differance, it makes the ranger an unwanted tank, where as other jobs debatably wouldn't be tanking at that point from equivilent damage. Another downside is the fact that all mobs do not last as long as the wait time before the next "burst damage" becomes availiable, which results in abnormally lower damage on some mobs during chains, and abnormally higher on other mobs the burst becomes availbable for, resulting in both ranger tanking some mobs, and producing weak damage on other mobs, creating an unbalanced and very awkward flow of chain killing.


*Definitions: Burst Damage, Perma Double Shot, Average Damage.

"Burst damage" would be defined as Weapon Skill + Barrage + Weapon Skill.

"Perma Double Shot" would be defined as shooting two arrows every one ranged shot.

"Average damage" would be defined as regular hits without using special abilies or burst damage.

Side Note: This would be the fastest fix and most easy by devs. I would propose a long term adjustment to allow rangers the ability to choose to store half of thier "burst damage" and allow them to add it to thier "average damage" attacks for the duration up till the next "burst damage" is avialble. Which would cut burst damage hate in half, and ultimatly strengthen their "average damage" between "burst damage" cycles.

[Kari]

What the necro.

Ranged auto attacks aren't a good idea, not useful. IMO we just need to be able to use ranged Weapon Skills without being engaged.

[Helel]

What the necro.

Ranged auto attacks aren't a good idea, not useful. IMO we just need to be able to use ranged Weapon Skills without being engaged.

Agreed. I wouldn't mind haste/march increasing snapshot in some way though. We're still way behind in terms of weapon skill frequency, however, that's a different story if you own a KC.

More than anything, I just want the recycle adjustments... so I don't feel guilty about going my favorite job (RNG) while I'm trying to finish my mythic.

[Mirabelle]

Here's a novel idea.
Blow it up and change everything about ranged attackers to make them more in line with melee.
No more ammo at all. By a single arrow/bullet/bolt of a certain type and all ranged attacks are of that type until a different ammo is equipped in slot. Lose TP as always for swapping ammo. Make getting ammo's like getting spells. Even better make it like getting BLU spells, where you have to learn certain ammo types from a ranged mobs. Others can be sold by NPC or found in chests or are rare drops from NM's.

Get rid of unlimited shot, recycle, etc.

Then turn ra into an auto attack function which can be hasted.

Then fix enmity so that rangers can shed it easily or can't reach cap and avoid having the mob wander over.

just my $0.02

[Oddwaffle]

Here's a novel idea.
Blow it up and change everything about ranged attackers to make them more in line with melee.
No more ammo at all. By a single arrow/bullet/bolt of a certain type and all ranged attacks are of that type until a different ammo is equipped in slot. Lose TP as always for swapping ammo. Make getting ammo's like getting spells. Even better make it like getting BLU spells, where you have to learn certain ammo types from a ranged mobs. Others can be sold by NPC or found in chests or are rare drops from NM's.

Get rid of unlimited shot, recycle, etc.

Then turn ra into an auto attack function which can be hasted.

Then fix enmity so that rangers can shed it easily or can't reach cap and avoid having the mob wander over.

just my $0.02

Can not be done or costs too much time. Range attack is currently similar to an ability. It can not be influenced by haste or slow and need the user to activate it. Changing it will either require a different set of auto attack for a few jobs.

Right now only melee attacks is auto attack. Everything else requires the player to activate. Depending on how auto attack is made 'auto attack is part of melee' or 'melee is part of auto attacking' you might be able to squeeze in ranged or you might have to remake the whole battle system.

[Glamdring]

I do a manual auto attack on the rare occasions I get to use my rng using my pull macro with a wait command and all 6 lines filled but on <bt>. since hitting any other macro breaks that one I don't have an issue as my unlimited shot macro incorporates the ammo change and the change back. It's not a perfect fix, but it is viable. Still, SE has said something like this was in the works. Now, things with SE are sometimes in the works for 5+ years so...

[Horadrim]

This should go both ways:

Auto Attack needs to be universal, and there needs to be a "Delay Attack" mode so you don't have to turn around to stop auto-attacking.

Then we can have /haltattack macros for NMs who gain HP or use crazy JAs when hit after certain attacks/TP moves.

Mean while, it sucks you can't stack <wait> in macros, or else you could do:

/shoot <stnpc>
/echo Ranged Attack = (<lastst>) <wait ##>
/echo Ranged Attack Ready!
/shoot <stnpc>
/echo Ranged Attack = (<lastst>) <wait ##>
/echo Ranged Attack Ready!

Since Delay 110 = 1 second, basically you'd do (Delay / 110) * 60 and get how long you'd need to <wait> (plus/minus whatever modifiers), then from there you'd just have to tap enter to confirm the shot. Too bad you can't loop macros, I guess? Maybe if you could you wouldn't even need to set it for confirm, just <t> then <lastst> over and over in a loop.

[Ophannus]

No point, this game is too old, would take a huge amount of resources to overhaul. Let it be. If this game was brand new, there'd be hope but lets just accept these flaws for what they are. This game has 3-4 years left in it tops.

[Fae]

This is still relevant today. My view is what should be done is what the dev response described, but have a way to stop attacking while still engaged:


Greetings,

We definitely understand the desire to have automatic ranged attacks and/or a toggle to switch it on and off. As the system is now, if we were to implement auto-ranged attacks, characters would be unable to use weapon skills or abilities during the ranged attack animation and the auto-ranged attack would interfere with the priority of the other abilities/WS. To address that issue would take a huge overhaul to the core system, so unfortunately it's not as simple as you might hope. However, we do understand there is a desire for an automatic ranged attack, and if it should change, we'll be sure to let you know.

I think you could get by with just a toggle on/off, with the current system. Have people toggle it off when they want to get ready to weaponskill or use job abilities, this would be a large improvement. Also, while it's toggled on, your ranged weapon should stay out full time like Semih Lafina's trust. There'd also need to be a way to define and equipset for both snapshot and midshot of each shot.