To Dev's, are there any plans to fix Neo Nyzul Isle?

[Amelimie]

just wondered what is happening with this content, any plans so people who do not use 3rd party programs have better chance to win?

[wish12oz]

My LS doesnt cheat and has a 40% win rate. Even counting the runs we've been doing where we just bring whoever is new in my LS along.

Neo Nyzul is fine as is. It's a skill and gear dependent event, and it's nice that there are such things in this game.

[Hayward]

Sorry, any event that practically requires a certain job--or, more specifically, a certain JA from said job--is screaming for an adjustment to include more players and a more diverse job arrangement. It's a bit insulting to any Summoner (with or without Alexander) or Scholar to be used simply for a JA and not it's full repertoire.

[Monchat]

they are not just used for that JA, you use them as healer after that. But yeah I aggree..

[Aarahs]

It's called tactics. You don't bring a tank to a sea battle and you don't bring a battleship to a land battle. Great thing about this game is you can hop out of a tank and hop into a ship as needed.

[wish12oz]

It's called tactics. You don't bring a tank to a sea battle and you don't bring a battleship to a land battle. Great thing about this game is you can hop out of a tank and hop into a ship as needed.

Bringing a knife to a gun fight is still ok though right!?

Seriously though, I like your post, it's funny and gets the point across.


Sorry, any event that practically requires a certain job--or, more specifically, a certain JA from said job--is screaming for an adjustment to include more players and a more diverse job arrangement.

This describes every event ever in the history of FFXI that was worth doing, every event ever has had its best and required jobs since the beginning of the game. Maybe you should just go play a different game.

[Tennotsukai]

Wish I had a skilled LS for this event :( too many casual gamers.

[hiko]

Bringing a knife to a gun fight is still ok though right!?

Seriously though, I like your post, it's funny and gets the point across.



This describes every event ever in the history of FFXI that was worth doing, every event ever has had its best and required jobs since the beginning of the game. Maybe you should just go play a different game.
evrey event had a best required job but none was "best job combo or you loose"

but back it take a lot longer just to get job to 75 than it take now to lvl it 99, full merit it, get decent gear and lvl sub to 49 if needed

[Winrie]

Skill and gear based events yes please.
I'll just chime in here that in 2012 it's easy to exp, skill up, get an empy or relic and gear yourself, so the boohoo limited jobs usable speech is mundane. Go exp and get rdy and do the content. This isn't abyssea anymore get used to it.

[Caketime]

People are still defending NNI? It's a horribly designed event and you all know it, lamp order floors and zerg tactics don't showcase your skill, it just showcases your willingness to jog on a hamster wheel for shinies.

[saevel]

People are still defending NNI? It's a horribly designed event and you all know it, lamp order floors and zerg tactics don't showcase your skill, it just showcases your willingness to jog on a hamster wheel for shinies.


It's too damn random, that is it's issue. There is a laundry list of "gotcha's" that SE can do to utterly screw over your run, and while skill can compensate for some of them, if you get hit with more then a couple no amount of *cough* "skill" will save you. I wish they would remove lamp order floors entirely, or restrict them to no more then three lamps. Re-adjust the jumping randomize to no longer be weighted towards four floor jumps and against 7~9 floor jumps. Also remove the random f*ck you pathos's like no-white-magic and no-weapon-skills, those on a boss floor and your toast or even a really high level floor and your toast.

It's basically just running a gauntlet and hoping that the dice don't roll a natural 1 for game over.

[Winrie]

The reason it gets defended by a small portion of people is because theyve found it to be winnable, losing to random bad luck is something you have to overlook. Wanting SE to change the bad luck/obstacle element of NNI is about the same as asking for the gear to be handed to you a silver platter. I dont have an exceptionally high rate of victory on this content either and i have no sets of nyzul gear done yet. But the content is beatable. What gets me is why everytime i go to the portal, i see perle drgs and wars, with a whm, or ninjas, and they think they will win with such slow output. Then they wipe, lose, whatever comes about from it, then they come here and rage about how the content sucks and its too hard. Back before abyssea this game had setups and organization for content, its also a piece of content you cannot do everyday, so its not like lvling a job for it is so omg bad. Im glad the game is back to setups and organized job layouts for stuff like this. Running into every bit of content and zerging it with no effort is boring as hell. Say what you like, at the end of the day all the ranting in the world will change nothing.

[Hayward]

The reason it gets defended by a small portion of people is because theyve found it to be winnable, losing to random bad luck is something you have to overlook. Wanting SE to change the bad luck/obstacle element of NNI is about the same as asking for the gear to be handed to you a silver platter. I dont have an exceptionally high rate of victory on this content either and i have no sets of nyzul gear done yet. But the content is beatable. What gets me is why everytime i go to the portal, i see perle drgs and wars, with a whm, or ninjas, and they think they will win with such slow output. Then they wipe, lose, whatever comes about from it, then they come here and rage about how the content sucks and its too hard. Back before abyssea this game had setups and organization for content, its also a piece of content you cannot do everyday, so its not like lvling a job for it is so omg bad. Im glad the game is back to setups and organized job layouts for stuff like this. Running into every bit of content and zerging it with no effort is boring as hell. Say what you like, at the end of the day all the ranting in the world will change nothing.

You must never have been around when jobs like Summoner, Dragoon, and Dark Knight were entirely shut out of these events you so fervently defend--I won't even mention BST and PUP since people can't get arrested even now thanks to the ignorance spouted on "professional" endgame forums. What reason is there for creating events that basically shuts out players who don't play cookie-cutter jobs approved by the forum that shall not be named (a la Voldemort)?

NNI would have been fine if the time were extended to 45~60 minutes to offset the increased difficulty and luck factors. As is, however, it is needlessly difficult and encourages Gameshark-type cheating.

[saevel]

NNI would have been fine if the time were extended to 45~60 minutes to offset the increased difficulty and luck factors. As is, however, it is needlessly difficult and encourages Gameshark-type cheating.

In all honestly it was designed during Tanaka's time. The floor 100 gear is a giant shining carrot with the event itself being the stick. You were supposed to throw yourself at it constantly with little hope for success until SE came out with better content. Eventually they consented that it was indeed nigh impossible to beat and settled on the whole win= guaranteed choice item and 25 floor 80 wins = guaranteed choice item. Look at the +3 items, those are actually really nice. You were supposed to farm floor 80 for the +3 drops and slowly build up the 25 KI's for the floor 100 items. Farming floor 100 itself is a red herring (from developers point of view).

This is from someone who has 15/15 and something like 20 floor 80 KI's. They really did expect everyone to farm 25 floor 80 kills per item.

[Mostfowl]

NNI is boring, lack-luster endgame content that is unimaginative and NOT skill based.

We win...heres how. Go in 2 sch (capped enhancing w/enhancing gear merits), 4 sam all geared to the teeth with macro gear and empy, everyone on vent. Go in buff/embrava sams run in different directions using speed gear like powder boots to make them get where they need to go faster, both sch stay at lamp, sam finish objective > move to the next floor reapply embrava and repeat. NO SKILL NEEDED so I call bs on anyone saying its skill related. Gear yes, skill no.

Lamp floors, easy. Everyone is on vent. Make order and same time lamps easy sch can accession > snk/inv > powder boots for flee, get to lamps using vent to talk you can take down the order fast, by now there is usually someone back at lamp since there is rarely, if ever 6 lamps on a floor. Lamp floors can be faster than kill all floors if everyone knows the drill.

Bosses > buff/zerg/win/disappointedface

All the ppl who win this sans cheats need no real skill. And the ppl who cheat...well thats true laziness. It all really comes down to what floors the rng wants to spit out

sam/sch are the only jobs needed so if you dont have one of these with capped skills and geared to the teeth, you are S.O.L. son.

So yes it does need to be tweaked for time extensions and what not, make it open to more ppl/jobs so more ppl can enjoy it. As it is right now...well there's a reason staff changes are being made

[Eurell]

I agree that it comes down to what floors the rng gives you.

I disagree that SAM is in anyway needed. My group has 12 wins so far, we've won with WAR, DRG, THF, MNK, SAM, and DRK. Pretty much any decent DD that will get the full benefit from embrava will tear it up in there.

Edit: obviously not all those jobs on the same run, as we do SCHx2 every time.

[Monchat]

any DD will do, you are wrecking EP mobs . Damage is not the pb. it's luck that matters. and you spend most of the time running around.

[Mirage]

NNI could be replaced with teleporting to a room with no exit until 30 minutes has passed, and a /random for gear drops.

[Leelink]

NNI could be replaced with teleporting to a room with no exit until 30 minutes has passed, and a /random for gear drops.

That would be Neo Bhaflau Remnants

[Detzu]

NNI is boring, lack-luster endgame content that is unimaginative and NOT skill based.

We win...heres how. Go in 2 sch (capped enhancing w/enhancing gear merits), 4 sam all geared to the teeth with macro gear and empy, everyone on vent. Go in buff/embrava sams run in different directions using speed gear like powder boots to make them get where they need to go faster, both sch stay at lamp, sam finish objective > move to the next floor reapply embrava and repeat. NO SKILL NEEDED so I call bs on anyone saying its skill related. Gear yes, skill no.

Lamp floors, easy. Everyone is on vent. Make order and same time lamps easy sch can accession > snk/inv > powder boots for flee, get to lamps using vent to talk you can take down the order fast, by now there is usually someone back at lamp since there is rarely, if ever 6 lamps on a floor. Lamp floors can be faster than kill all floors if everyone knows the drill.

Bosses > buff/zerg/win/disappointedface

All the ppl who win this sans cheats need no real skill. And the ppl who cheat...well thats true laziness. It all really comes down to what floors the rng wants to spit out

sam/sch are the only jobs needed so if you dont have one of these with capped skills and geared to the teeth, you are S.O.L. son.

So yes it does need to be tweaked for time extensions and what not, make it open to more ppl/jobs so more ppl can enjoy it. As it is right now...well there's a reason staff changes are being made

It requires at least the ability to kill quickly. If I follow your logic, i'm yet to see what requires skill in the game.

[saevel]

any DD will do, you are wrecking EP mobs . Damage is not the pb. it's luck that matters. and you spend most of the time running around.

The only places where you need high powered DD are Boss floors or floor 60+ leader / kill all floors. Those places then to have NMs with lots of HP that hit really hard.

We've won with various setups depending on who needed the gear that day.
Our super group / static that consistently won was
SCH
SCH
WAR (Rag)
WAR (Ukon)
THF (Mandau)
BLU (Almace, me)

Ride bergressor and eat meat while running around killing everything. We found a good BLU (read: not an abyssea / voidwatch proc onry BLU) to be invaluable. Requiscat and various damage types are helpful on floors with undead or flan NMs. That and BLU's can destroy EP~EM monsters while also being able to stun most NMs (not boss's though).

[Komori]

Is it also true that TH affects how many pieces of gear that can drop from the boss? I heard of a group with a THF getting 3 pieces to drop from the boss. Without TH it's either 0-1 pieces.

[saevel]

Is it also true that TH affects how many pieces of gear that can drop from the boss? I heard of a group with a THF getting 3 pieces to drop from the boss. Without TH it's either 0-1 pieces.

Yes TH dramatically effects the floor 100 boss. We routinely got three drops off him and occasionally two.

[Siiri]

It's not the DDs that are the issue. SAM is hardly needed, in fact isn't SAM kind of LOL these days compared to war and drk? Regardless, any good 2 handed DD will be fine, and many other jobs such as blue mage and mnk will be fine as well. DDs need to know how to swap gear, macro weaponskill and tp sets, have full haste, understand their x-hit if 2handed, etc. Understandably reading a lot of people's post on this forum and seeing some in game that is a big issue.

The real issue with Neo Nyzul is the ridiculousness of requiring 2 scholars full timing embrava to win. Does no one else think an event that takes 6 people and 2 have to be scholar 2 houring is silly? I know other events had jobs that were "better" but never did a low man event like neo nyzul REQUIRE 2/6 players to be the same job. I guess 1 rdm/drk out of 18 chain spell stunning a boss at 75, but the reliance on embrava in this event is just horrible bad design to me. Even when kraken drk was nerfed no one really missed a beat except for AV.

[saevel]

It's not the DDs that are the issue. SAM is hardly needed, in fact isn't SAM kind of LOL these days compared to war and drk? Regardless, any good 2 handed DD will be fine, and many other jobs such as blue mage and mnk will be fine as well. DDs need to know how to swap gear, macro weaponskill and tp sets, have full haste, understand their x-hit if 2handed, etc. Understandably reading a lot of people's post on this forum and seeing some in game that is a big issue.

The real issue with Neo Nyzul is the ridiculousness of requiring 2 scholars full timing embrava to win. Does no one else think an event that takes 6 people and 2 have to be scholar 2 houring is silly? I know other events had jobs that were "better" but never did a low man event like neo nyzul REQUIRE 2/6 players to be the same job. I guess 1 rdm/drk out of 18 chain spell stunning a boss at 75, but the reliance on embrava in this event is just horrible bad design to me. Even when kraken drk was nerfed no one really missed a beat except for AV.

It was designed to only be won once per couple of months. Artificial difficulty injected by Tanaka's RNG. As I mentioned before NNI has several cheap things that can happen and will ruin a run, it's not just order lamps but different NM's and such, especially past floor 60. And ultimately your at the mercy of the RNG for floor jumps, couple of weeks back it was stupid, out of seven runs (between two weeks) five of them requires 20+ jumps to get to 100 and the other two were failures due to some really stupid sh!t happening. Sometimes you can get there in 17, other times it'll take 23 (highest recorded win so far). Sometimes it'll be spec enemy right next to the lamp, other times it'll be Kill All with Genbu, Krutzel and Tarasque all next to each other. Sometimes it'll be code lamp near the door, other times it'll be order / same time with one lamp being two rooms east and five rooms south of the start.

The idea of double Embrava and all the special *magic* is to give yourself the maximum amount of advantages to overcome the SE F*CK Y*U RNG. So when it throws three to four straight two floor jumps with stupid objectives or pathos's at you, your still able to overcome them and eek a win out. Very rarely does a single thing cause a failure, it's usually the cumulative effects of three to four "bad luck" rolls of the dice that cause you to fail at floor ~90.

[Siiri]

Right, SE probably didn't imagine the double embrava strategy. That is all players trying to overcome like you said. If SE really doesn't want to adjust the event , at minimum make the lobby a true lobby and have the timer not start. In addition can't they do something about the lag after you hit the lamps?

[Ryanx]

If you do not have right job suck it up and lvl the right job needed there is a reason why we can lvl multiple jobs unlike other MMO were you can only lvl up 1 job

[Kari]

As someone who's only participated in 3 runs, and won all of them, I wish NNI was more about skill/gear than luck.
I very much dislike that it's possible for one run to be full of screw-you-over lamp floors, while another could be Code Lamp Floors that complete quickly.
Just as well, pathos can royally screw you at any moment.

If this was not such a tight, time-based event, I might not mind.
If this was not an event that ran on the terrible limitations of Assault Tags, I might not mind.


If you do not have right job suck it up and lvl the right job needed there is a reason why we can lvl multiple jobs unlike other MMO were you can only lvl up 1 job

NNI has nothing to do with having the right job. I ran it on DNC, and we also had a THF. People run it with heavier DDs than that and still fail because the event is so random.

[Plasticleg]

As someone who's only participated in 3 runs, and won all of them, I wish NNI was more about skill/gear than luck.
I very much dislike that it's possible for one run to be full of screw-you-over lamp floors, while another could be Code Lamp Floors that complete quickly.
Just as well, pathos can royally screw you at any moment.

If this was not such a tight, time-based event, I might not mind.
If this was not an event that ran on the terrible limitations of Assault Tags, I might not mind.



NNI has nothing to do with having the right job. I ran it on DNC, and we also had a THF. People run it with heavier DDs than that and still fail because the event is so random.

You're missing the whole reasoning behind embrava-ing NNI.

[Sp1cyryan]

My LS doesnt cheat and has a 40% win rate. Even counting the runs we've been doing where we just bring whoever is new in my LS along.

Neo Nyzul is fine as is. It's a skill and gear dependent event, and it's nice that there are such things in this game.

About the same rate for my group and the random people we tend to take along.

It is luck based mainly, but because of that more skill, gear, and coordination are required.

I believe it is fine as is.


Sorry, any event that practically requires a certain job--or, more specifically, a certain JA from said job--is screaming for an adjustment

Where were you the entire history of this game? Chainspell stun on dynamis lord and NMs back in the day? LS typically only wanting PLDs to tank most HNMs? XP pts that only wanted a BRD COR RDM (or whm) and 3 DDs? Each job has its own element to excel in and be unique in. When you blur those lines and anything works for everything then you might as well just start taking jobs out of the game. It was never cried adjustment that RDM, BLU, or BST could solo NMs back at 75. If it is not broken you don't need to go make it conform to everyone's wishes because everyone wants something different anyway.


People are still defending NNI? It's a horribly designed event and you all know it, lamp order floors and zerg tactics don't showcase your skill, it just showcases your willingness to jog on a hamster wheel for shinies.

Yes, because when two identical groups go in and one wins a run or two and the other is wiping on floor 13, takes 4 minutes to find a register lamp, and clears kill all floors slower than the other then it clearly is not skill based at all! Playing this game at all shows a willingness to run on hamster wheel. Your analogy is dumb.

NNI is not broken. Go to any random shout group for something simple. Say an abyssea MB win, and you will see why people can't win and complain. The average caliber player is not the sharpest tool in the shed.


Also remove the random f*ck you pathos's like no-white-magic and no-weapon-skills, those on a boss floor and your toast or even a really high level floor and your toast.

It's basically just running a gauntlet and hoping that the dice don't roll a natural 1 for game over.

Getting something like a kill all with no WSs does not guarantee a loss. The pathos and random events that you can benefit from or be hindered by are just a part of what makes Nyzul. Every other event in this game is based on constants as it is. I would find it hard to believe anyone could seriously claim that they get tired of Nyzul faster than other events in this game. It is always different when you go on and never know what to expect. That is what Nyzul has always been. Just when you think it is over there is your five floor jump, free floor, nine floor jump, register next to the lamp, five floor jump, spec enemy at the start, and so on. Just when you think you have won you get 99 kill all with genbu and hydra with three minutes left and a lot of invincible.


but never did a low man event like neo nyzul REQUIRE 2/6 players to be the same job.

DL at 75, two RDMs for chainspell stun. BLM parties for Aspid. Come on certain jobs being used repeatedly is nothing new. Just because it is a lowman event does not change anything. Who cares if it is two anyway? Events always require a job for a specific purpose here and there. The only reason two of the same are taken is to repeat the same purpose.

You can win this without two SCHs too. It is not actually "REQUIRE"D. You would sub in a BRD for one of them which may actually be what happens with the embrava nerf.

[Caketime]

Yes, because when two identical groups go in and one wins a run or two and the other is wiping on floor 13, takes 4 minutes to find a register lamp, and clears kill all floors slower than the other then it clearly is not skill based at all! Playing this game at all shows a willingness to run on hamster wheel. Your analogy is dumb.

Oh wow, it's possible for two groups to perform completely differently, that's not shocking news at all. It also doesn't change the fact that this event sucks. Talk about skill and gear all you want all day long, NNI is still going to suck. You even admitted in your post that it's not skill based, yet you try and defend it by saying that it takes skill, but I'd be willing to wager that your hypothesis is completely false and the only reason anybody wins is due to the RNG not turning any given run into a hot mess. The sole contributing factor to victory in NNI is damage output, and it doesn't take much brain power to press a few buttons or set up a WS macro.

Skill is threading the needle with a pet that paths like an overweight autistic child with bowlegs, running through empty rooms and beating down lone mobs while occasionally pressing a button in sequence with other people is not. This event is still terrible, by the way.

[Sp1cyryan]

Oh wow, it's possible for two groups to perform completely differently, that's not shocking news at all. It also doesn't change the fact that this event sucks. Talk about skill and gear all you want all day long, NNI is still going to suck. You even admitted in your post that it's not skill based, yet you try and defend it by saying that it takes skill

Stop looking at it in a black and white manner please. How are you unable to understand that skill and luck factor in? Some people hate the ways certain things work while others enjoy it very much. We don't change events because it was not tailored to a specific groups liking.


but I'd be willing to wager that your hypothesis is completely false and the only reason anybody wins is due to the RNG not turning any given run into a hot mess.

Three order lamps last night in a run last night with an uncomfortable number of low jumps thrown in and we won with a couple of minutes to spare. The run before that literally had four two floor jumps in a row ( not to mention) and we only ended up finishing 92 with thirty seconds left because it was a huge same time lamp floor. If we managed to pound through a couple seconds faster on every floor then that could have easily been a win.


The sole contributing factor to victory in NNI is damage output, and it doesn't take much brain power to press a few buttons or set up a WS macro.

Damage output is a factor that is involved in winning all events. By your logic this game does not take much brain power at all. Therefore I would wonder what really needs to actually be changed?
Is it a problem that people would rather try to burn through an event like legion that requires some skill instead of actually trying to make it more challenging by leaving the embrava stunners home?


Skill is threading the needle with a pet that paths like an overweight autistic child with bowlegs, running through empty rooms and beating down lone mobs while occasionally pressing a button in sequence with other people is not. This event is still terrible, by the way.

Again with the idiotic analogies huh? I do not even know what you are honestly even saying going on about overweight children with bowlegs.

Nothing makes this event terrible other than the fact that you do not like it. You and your analogies can do all the other events in this game then.

[Caketime]

Ooh, anecdotal evidence supporting Luck > Skill! Herp derp.

Also no, this game doesn't require much brain power to play successfully. If anything it requires patience and a stubborn refusal to be disheartened by the hateful RNG, but that's a discussion for some other thread.

[Sp1cyryan]

Ooh, anecdotal evidence supporting Luck > Skill! Herp derp.

Yes because your analogies have been something to be very proud of. Hurr-durr.

Your acquired knowledge of the game, tools (gear) at your disposal, and prowess with the controls determines your overall skill. Quit acting like this event has nothing to do with skill because some all mighty RNG determines everything. You will get more jumps going in with well geared people who can coordinate and move quickly as a team than you will with the people who do not.

Here let me make the debate simple so we can potentially skate around a rebuttal involving an analogy.

*More jumps within 30 minutes means a greater chance of winning despite bad luck from the RNG.

*Skilled groups jump more often than less skilled groups (typically the people who complain Nyzul is "too hard").

It is as simple as that. You can not win all the runs, and obviously will have some bad luck. However, there is no good reason you can not win one out of three runs on average or better every few nights your group goes.


If anything it requires patience and a stubborn refusal to be disheartened by the hateful RNG, but that's a discussion for some other thread.

Do we really need to question who is being stubborn? I think you may possibly be surprised by the answer.

[wish12oz]

Random thoughts I want to reply to since I last looked at this thread like 3 days ago:

Playing a melee job is not all that hard. You engage things, you use abilities once in awhile, and you WS when you have 100 TP. Simple as that.

The skill part of these jobs comes in knowing what gear to get and use for what enemies, WSing right before or right when you get 100 TP, knowing when it is most effective to use your abilities, learning how to acquire the gear you need, actually acquiring it, etc. For Nyzul specifically, macroing on/off run fast shoes to do your best to remove engage/disengage position lock is a pretty skill based thing to do, knowing when the flan NM suddenly gets healed when you hit it with your stick so you don't suddenly fill it back up to 100%, having good memory so you know which ways you have run already, which ways other players have run already, where other players are when they say things like "I found it," and knowing to not follow the other person when there are two ways you could go.

SAM is good in Neo Nyzul? Since when?
WAR MNK and BLU are the best melees for Neo Nyzul, and I will explain why.

WAR because it has a huge single target WS (Ukkos Fury), a big damage AOE WS (Fell Cleave) and Tomahawk for annoying mobs that take reduced damage, like some of the flan NMs, slimes, skeletons, etc, that you constantly fight all the time. It also has cheap/easy to acquire run fast shoes (Hermes Sandels) from the AH.

BLU for the same reasons as WAR, big damage single target WS/spells, AOE spells, decently easy to acquire run speed (Crimson pants, but these are harder than Hermes) plus it gets stuns, and can do magic damage to stuff to avoid slashing damage penalties or take advantage of stuff that takes extra magic damage or no physical damage.

MNK is worse off than the previous two, but it can use Formless Strikes to fight the flan NM when it goes into "physical damage heals me mode," or to beat on things like slimes. It also has Hermes Sandels. And its not like the stuff in Neo Nyzul is hard at all, so it doesn't take much of a hit from being a 1 handed weapon job.

SAM DRK DRG do not have this one advantage MNK has over them, so they are all inferior compared to it. And 1 handed melees are generally just bad compared to 2 handed in any event where you basically sit at capped haste all the time, since their Dual Wild suffers tremendously, their WS's are all inferior damage comparatively and their overall DoT is just much lower, and thats the only thing the remaining jobs have going for them.

[Caketime]

Yes because your analogies have been something to be very proud of. Hurr-durr.

Your acquired knowledge of the game, tools (gear) at your disposal, and prowess with the controls determines your overall skill. Quit acting like this event has nothing to do with skill because some all mighty RNG determines everything. You will get more jumps going in with well geared people who can coordinate and move quickly as a team than you will with the people who do not.

You've used the term skill 7 times across the last 3 posts in reference to pressing buttons and running forward. Just wanted to put that into perspective. I'm also going to assume that by repeating the term skilled you actually mean geared, it's not like you're crocheting blankets for orphans or anything you're just pressing buttons.



Do we really need to question who is being stubborn? I think you may possibly be surprised by the answer.

The answer is both. You stand by your argument that you're some kind of FFXI commando pro, and I stand by mine that the only reason anyone wins is the RNG allows it. We're not going to convince one another of anything.

[Sp1cyryan]

You've used the term skill 7 times across the last 3 posts in reference to pressing buttons and running forward. Just wanted to put that into perspective. I'm also going to assume that by repeating the term skilled you actually mean geared, it's not like you're crocheting blankets for orphans or anything you're just pressing buttons.

I consider skilled being more than geared. In the last post I even mentioned knowledge, gear, and prowess with the controls being the main components of skill. When it comes to Nyzul coordination is a fourth aspect added on.

After reading that you should not continue to replace "skill" with "pressing buttons and running forward".

Instead of writing yet another pseudo-intellectual analogy you could have addressed the two bulleted sentences in the previous post. So the answer is not "both" of us are actually being stubborn. I am making points and you pretty much shake your head at anything that does not end up leading to "nope RNG guiz".


You stand by your argument that you're some kind of FFXI commando pro, and I stand by mine that the only reason anyone wins is the RNG allows it. We're not going to convince one another of anything.

I am not some sort of commando pro and happen to be easily replaceable in my group.

The RNG 'allowing' a win is not the real reason they won. They won because they tried instead of worrying about chance over and over. Out of curiosity how many pieces of Nyzul gear has that RNG permitted you to obtain?


WAR MNK and BLU are the best melees for Neo Nyzul, and I will explain why.

BLU for the same reasons as WAR, big damage single target WS/spells, AOE spells, decently easy to acquire run speed (Crimson pants, but these are harder than Hermes) plus it gets stuns, and can do magic damage to stuff to avoid slashing damage penalties or take advantage of stuff that takes extra magic damage or no physical damage.

I would not consider BLU to be one of the best melees for Nyzul. However, they are very acceptable to bring and have their moments of utility that shine above what others can preform every now and then.

If the BLU does not have 5/5 requiscate then they are not even worth bringing off the bat. Requiscate on kill all floors repeatedly shines on the NM slimes you run into as well as the normal slimes and puddings. It also shines on the troll NM and the PDT custard leader. Especially with enfire being doled out as the BLU will be walking around with significant double and tripple attack.
Sudden lunge saves runs and time by preventing the chariot leader from spamming charm, the imp NM from amnesia, the rats from their amnesia, EES, and terror, etc. AoEing rooms of mobs down on kill all floors is great too.

That being said if you have a BLU IMO there is no reason for a MNK. Formless strikes becomes useless (especially from not being ready all the time). Rag DRK, Ukon WAR, Masamune SAM, etc just fill the slot better once the BLU has filled in.

[MarkovChain]

The reason it gets defended by a small portion of people is because theyve found it to be winnable, losing to random bad luck is something you have to overlook. Wanting SE to change the bad luck/obstacle element of NNI is about the same as asking for the gear to be handed to you a silver platter..

No, you can change the event so as to make it less of "0 or 1". It's easy to keep the luck part predominant while still giving away bones for when your group doesn't have SCH or when you had a lamp order or when you don't play under cheatmode. There are plenty of solutions but the best one is the following :

* allow each boss to drop a shard from the KI needed to get F100 drop.
* each boss (20/40/60/80/100) are now equal and will drop a cell.
* killing 20/60/80 boss is now necessary to progress further.
* Last boss dops a random armor but not 100% of the time (make it 10%).
* you require 100 shards to exchange an armor at the NPC.

explanations :
-each boss helps you progress so even with far from optimal setups you can progress.
-If you are good OR lucky you will get more shards than other.
-If you are very lucky you may end up getting to floors 100, thus benefitting from a 4rth shard plus a chance at the treasure pool.
-It requires minimal effort to change the current system.
- Forcing people to do inbetween floors helps transforming NNI into a more progressive event.

Anyway, in the census, NNI thread ranked like 3rd in the number of likes so the devs must fix it assap. My suggestion still allows embrava user to perform better but it would be not as much important because 90% of the time even with no embrava you are going to reach F60.

[Sp1cyryan]

No, you can change the event so as to make it less of "0 or 1". It's easy to keep the luck part predominant while still giving away bones for when your group doesn't have SCH or when you had a lamp order or when you don't play under cheatmode. There are plenty of solutions but the best one is the following :

* allow each boss to drop a shard from the KI needed to get F100 drop.
* each boss (20/40/60/80/100) are now equal and will drop a cell.
* killing 20/60/80 boss is now necessary to progress further.
* Last boss dops a random armor but not 100% of the time (make it 10%).
* you require 100 shards to exchange an armor at the NPC.

That easily makes the event worse than it is. Who needs 100 shards when if all is lost you can win floor 80 easily. If my objective was 80 I think my win rate would shoot to 90+%.

Taking away the boss dropping armor 100% on floor 100 also pointlessly makes the event worse.

Forcing floor 20/40/60 bosses is a silly pointless change. The event in SEs mind has rewards that were not put there for progressive system to easily change. Considering any group that has more than one oar in the water should be able to get to floor 60 in a single run why should they allow it to become progressive so you can springboard from that?


-If you are very lucky you may end up getting to floors 100, thus benefitting from a 4rth shard plus a chance at the treasure pool.

Or if you are "very lucky" you could just win and get 1-3 pieces of gear with a KI for another instead of being 8% done towards a single piece. Where does the latter seem better? Floor 100 is not that hard to get to at all.


Anyway, in the census, NNI thread ranked like 3rd in the number of likes so the devs must fix it assap.

Lol, there could be a thread with a record number of likes that stated heavy metal plates should be lowered from needing 1500 to 1000 and it does not mean the Devs have to do anything.


My suggestion still allows embrava user to perform better but it would be not as much important because 90% of the time even with no embrava you are going to reach F60.


They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time, it works every time.

[Caketime]

I consider skilled being more than geared. In the last post I even mentioned knowledge, gear, and prowess with the controls being the main components of skill. When it comes to Nyzul coordination is a fourth aspect added on.

You see that bearded gentlemen with the look of disappointment on his face in the bottom right panel of your sig? That's the face I'm making right now, all of the things you pointed out are game basics, and for all your over-explanation it still boils down to pressing buttons and running forward. The details for the most part hardly matter outside of gear choice, being that our characters have a linear stat progression and there are literally zero differences between one character and another of the same job aside from racial bonuses and gear. Merits might have achieved some semblance of customizaion if there weren't blatant garbage merit choices among the good ones, so even in that aspect players of the same job are extremely likely to have the same abilities merited, or be told to sit in the corner with RDM and BST.


After reading that you should not continue to replace "skill" with "pressing buttons and running forward".

No.


Instead of writing yet another pseudo-intellectual analogy you could have addressed the two bulleted sentences in the previous post. So the answer is not "both" of us are actually being stubborn. I am making points and you pretty much shake your head at anything that does not end up leading to "nope RNG guiz".

You are unable to convince me that your awesome cookie cutter strategies and ability to communicate with 5 other people via voice chat programs makes you more capable of winning an event where luck plays a huge factor in every aspect. Conversely, I am unable to convince you that this event sucks and is a RNG slot machine disguised as "fun". It's OK to be stubborn, it just shows that you're passionate about this particular aspect of the game and nothing I say is going to change your mind. Have fun in there


I am not some sort of commando pro and happen to be easily replaceable in my group.

The RNG 'allowing' a win is not the real reason they won. They won because they tried instead of worrying about chance over and over. Out of curiosity how many pieces of Nyzul gear has that RNG permitted you to obtain?

0. I play BST and am not ideal for timed events requiring spike damage, so I'm defaulted to the corner to play craps with RDM and discuss our plans for world domination. My problem with this event is that typing everything out eats up time and every second counts, if the devs added a voice option compatible between xbawks and PC it would be that much easier to keep everyone on the same page in situations where lamps need to be fondled in a specific order and what have you.

[wish12oz]

I would not consider BLU to be one of the best melees for Nyzul.

Quit hanging out with bad BLUs then.

[Sp1cyryan]

You see that bearded gentlemen with the look of disappointment on his face in the bottom right panel of your sig? That's the face I'm making right now, all of the things you pointed out are game basics, and for all your over-explanation it still boils down to pressing buttons and running forward.

Why stop there? Why not say it all boils down to breathing, being conscious, and having enough chromosomes to have at least eight fingers to play?


The details for the most part hardly matter outside of gear choice, being that our characters have a linear stat progression and there are literally zero differences between one character and another of the same job aside from racial bonuses and gear.

So anyone picking up the controller or keyboard of the same character will preform the same as long as they are not a different race and have the same merits and gear. Gotcha.


or be told to sit in the corner with RDM and BST.

Hey, I would take a Guttler BST over a MNK to NNI.


No.

You know why I like you? Because you are just so constructive. How many pieces of NNI armor have you acquired too? You never told me.


You are unable to convince me that your awesome cookie cutter strategies and ability to communicate with 5 other people via voice chat programs makes you more capable of winning an event where luck plays a huge factor in every aspect.

Than a less skilled group? Yes. What is so hard to understand about that? More skilled players are capable of getting more jumps than less skilled and more win. Nothing hard to understand about that.

Cookiecutter groups? Oh, I see, well then. This is quickly winding down.
The old "cookie cutter" routine egh?


I play BST and am not ideal for timed events requiring spike damage, so I'm defaulted to the corner to play craps with RDM and discuss our plans for world domination.

I remember when I had my first job hit level cap.


if the devs added a voice option compatible between xbawks and PC it would be that much easier to keep everyone on the same page in situations where lamps need to be fondled in a specific order and what have you.

You are posting on a PC I imagine? How many people have xbox, play this game, and do not have a PC they can use a VOIP program with?


Quit hanging out with bad BLUs then.

I go BLU to NNI..

I said it is very acceptable to bring. Certainly not going to keep up with the Rag DRKs using last resort and resolution spam. I did go on about if there is a BLU then there is no reason for a MNK imo too, but perhaps that did not make my feelings to clear on the matter.

90% of the BLUs are bad anyway how can you not hang around with them? My favorite are the ones in VW with almace and genbus shield sub war or blm. See that one a lot somehow.

[uptempo]

NNI is boring, lack-luster endgame content that is unimaginative and NOT skill based.

We win...heres how. Go in 2 sch (capped enhancing w/enhancing gear merits), 4 sam all geared to the teeth with macro gear and empy, everyone on vent. Go in buff/embrava sams run in different directions using speed gear like powder boots to make them get where they need to go faster, both sch stay at lamp, sam finish objective > move to the next floor reapply embrava and repeat. NO SKILL NEEDED so I call bs on anyone saying its skill related. Gear yes, skill no.

Lamp floors, easy. Everyone is on vent. Make order and same time lamps easy sch can accession > snk/inv > powder boots for flee, get to lamps using vent to talk you can take down the order fast, by now there is usually someone back at lamp since there is rarely, if ever 6 lamps on a floor. Lamp floors can be faster than kill all floors if everyone knows the drill.

Bosses > buff/zerg/win/disappointedface

All the ppl who win this sans cheats need no real skill. And the ppl who cheat...well thats true laziness. It all really comes down to what floors the rng wants to spit out

sam/sch are the only jobs needed so if you dont have one of these with capped skills and geared to the teeth, you are S.O.L. son.

So yes it does need to be tweaked for time extensions and what not, make it open to more ppl/jobs so more ppl can enjoy it. As it is right now...well there's a reason staff changes are being made

Wow pal talk about false information, War/Drk/Mnk work aswell as Sam haha muppet.

[Caketime]

Why stop there? Why not say it all boils down to breathing, being conscious, and having enough chromosomes to have at least eight fingers to play?

You're right, we'll go with that.



You know why I like you? Because you are just so constructive. How many pieces of NNI armor have you acquired too? You never told me.

Re-read my previous post, I answered your question. Thanks for the compliment, you're a pretty swell guy yourself. :3




Than a less skilled group? Yes. What is so hard to understand about that? More skilled players are capable of getting more jumps than less skilled and more win. Nothing hard to understand about that.

Cookiecutter groups? Oh, I see, well then. This is quickly winding down.
The old "cookie cutter" routine egh?

Remember what I said earlier about neither of us convincing the other? This chunk of text supports that.



I remember when I had my first job hit level cap.

Oh you. All of my jobs are displayed on the AH website if you really care to look at it and leave a snide comment. I play BST because of my odd work hours and time schedule, properly gearing a solid DD is a massive time investment and I just don't have enough hours in my day to work on it effectively. With BST I can go at my own pace and do whatever I feel like doing within my ability to solo or duo/trio with some buddies. Plus it's my favorite job, kind of reminds me of pokemans. I've got WHM for LS activities, but I require at least a case of beer to play WHM. I wish there was a beer elemental line of magic spells.



You are posting on a PC I imagine? How many people have xbox, play this game, and do not have a PC they can use a VOIP program with?

Tablet. I've got a couple of options for voice chatting, but most of the voice chatting in my LS channel is carried out when our DDs are drunk and loud so it's mostly there for comedic purposes.

[Razielrinz]

I will go ahead and say this, those of you gear snobs that play this game for 20 hours a day 7 days a week are gonna be real disappointed when the 70-80% of the population that is casuals on this game leave and then SE cancels it. Which is whats gonna happen if all the content requires Job A + Equipment B = Win. Abyssea brought people back to the game and this attitude of elitism is what is driving them away en mass. If you love this game as much as I do (Been playing 7 years) then stop being such jerks about it and understand content everyone can do leads to content everyone will want to do. Also I think the elitists need to be reminded again that keeping casuals playing keeps the lights on.

[Plasticleg]

*tears*

Have you ever played this game?
For serious, have you?

[Razielrinz]

Sure have played it. Been playing it fora long time. And I am one of many people who are getting fed up with this crap. Making any event single out jobs and restrict the rest is not good for business. I remember soloing Blm to 72 on Bst pets cause I could not get into any Aht Urgan parties cause they all did birds and birds reflected damage. Why should people be forced to play a certain job to do content they want to do to get w/e gear they want? What if I want to come on my Corsair? What if I want to come on my Blm? What if I hate Sch or Smn or the heavy DD that you require? Why should I have to play something I hate to get gear I want? It should be open for everyone to do without having to cheat or rely on Sch 2 hour and JA or Smn and their 2 hour JA. And content that makes it restrictive chases away people that are casual and reduces the number of people paying for the game. Oh and Plasticleg I like your quote, as it shows your ignorance to a very real problem. I, like many have lots of hours in this game and would like it to keep going and content like NNI is not helping it. That's my opinion. The only real solution is to reduce the overall difficulty (incoming hate I can feel it) and just say W/E to the 4 HDD and 2 Sch parties kicking it's teeth in like they do now anyway. This way everyone can do it (even pick up parties wooooooo) like they used to be able to in regular Nyzul Isle. So hate on me all you want but I love this game and do not want to see it go down the crapper cause of elitist attitudes leading the development team.

[uptempo]

Honestly im sick of casuals since abyssea came out i still remember the average casual nobody who got a huge ego when abyssea first came out infact most of them were worse than these so called elitist snobs you are talking about, so why should i care if a casual player can or can't succeed at nyzul, I don't care and it's simply because you are terrible at the game and you casuals seem to think you have the right to have gear handed to you ever since abyssea came out, heres a hint nni wasn't designed so you would win on every run so man up and keep trying to do it and stop crying on here about it

[SpankWustler]

Why do people keep bringing up limited job viability as an issue with Neo-Nyzul Isle?

Compared to Legion or any event where a !! over a monster's head is desired, Neo-Nyzul Isle is open to a huge number of arrangements of a huge number of jobs. Two spots are occupied by Scholars, but the other four are open to almost anything that hits things with things and benefits fully from Embrava.

The huge number of relatively weak enemies makes Neo-Nyzul Isle a walk through the park, naked in April on Free Hotdog Day, for one-handed melee compared to Legion.

Some jobs are definitely left out, but again, there are very few events in all of FFXI that lovingly accept all jobs. An event where a Blue Mage or a Thief can wail on stuff in the same party as a Dark Knight or a Warrior is a pretty open event.

Not to say that Neo-Nyzul Isle doesn't have issues, but it flummoxes me that stuff about jobs keeps coming up in the complaints.

[Insaniac]

It's a red herring for people who just want the event to be easier so they can beat it.

SE can't put out top tier events that you can literally take any 6 jobs to and win because then when you went with the ideal set up you would fly through it like a cruise missile through wet toilet paper. Imagine if you will, if NNI was set to a difficulty level that facilitated being cleared by a PLD WHM THF BRD RDM DNC party. Now imagine that same toned down NNI with a party of SCH SCH UKON RAG RYU RAG.

[Caketime]

Why do people keep bringing up limited job viability as an issue with Neo-Nyzul Isle?

Compared to Legion or any event where a !! over a monster's head is desired, Neo-Nyzul Isle is open to a huge number of arrangements of a huge number of jobs. Two spots are occupied by Scholars, but the other four are open to almost anything that hits things with things and benefits fully from Embrava.

The huge number of relatively weak enemies makes Neo-Nyzul Isle a walk through the park, naked in April on Free Hotdog Day, for one-handed melee compared to Legion.

Some jobs are definitely left out, but again, there are very few events in all of FFXI that lovingly accept all jobs. An event where a Blue Mage or a Thief can wail on stuff in the same party as a Dark Knight or a Warrior is a pretty open event.

Not to say that Neo-Nyzul Isle doesn't have issues, but it flummoxes me that stuff about jobs keeps coming up in the complaints.

The issue keeps coming up in complaints because LS leaders have it in their heads the only way to do the event is with heavy DD and 2x SCH. My LS leader told me to level SAM for NNI or I wasn't going with them, so I lol'd and still haven't finished soloing SAM to 99 yet or gearing it and I don't plan to. I find it rather boring.

In a game with 20 jobs the community is taking 4 jobs to nearly every event and destroying it. So 1/5th of the game's population is able to do these events, and anyone else who wants to do them has to either level SCH, or gear up SAM/WAR/DRK or gtfo. Call it a red herring all you want, it's still exclusionary content.

[Mirage]

Maybe they should just buff the weak jobs so that they are strong enough for NNI instead?

[Caketime]

But that would make sense.

[Sp1cyryan]

Oh you. All of my jobs are displayed on the AH website if you really care to look at it and leave a snide comment. I play BST because of my odd work hours and time schedule, properly gearing a solid DD is a massive time investment and I just don't have enough hours in my day to work on it effectively.

No, it is not. You can quickly gear a solid DD very well. I took a SAM friend to NNI for his first time last week. Had the TP bonus GK, AF3+2, or AH (miekera-oto etc) gear mostly. Did we win? Yup. Granted you just need a single friend or the ability to dual box a second account and just do it all yourself. Even with a work schedule there is no reason you can't camp the NMs for a Masamune/Almace/etc or solo dynamis for 8 months casually not going every night. If you just do not feel like it there are always magian weapons too for DRG DRK and SAM that are not hard. You have a LS, but perhaps you need a new one.


Plus it's my favorite job, kind of reminds me of pokemans.

PUP is my first and favorite job and I know not to take it to Nyzul, but that is okay because I have other jobs I can go on. The secret being I have only leveled two new jobs on Spicy since abyssea came out, when was it? Two years ago? Sounds casual doesn't it? Shhh, don't let the secret out of the bag though. No one needs to know about some casuals not going with 'cookie cutters' easily doing this event. It might just shatter perceptions, but then again of course not because people just don't want an event they have to try more at. Should just dbox everyone the gear now so they can be happy.


Tablet. I've got a couple of options for voice chatting, but most of the voice chatting in my LS channel is carried out when our DDs are drunk and loud so it's mostly there for comedic purposes.

So what was the point of talking about how SE should make a chat channel for PC and lolBox users?


In a game with 20 jobs the community is taking 4 jobs to nearly every event and destroying it. So 1/5th of the game's population is able to do these events, and anyone else who wants to do them has to either level SCH, or gear up SAM/WAR/DRK or gtfo. Call it a red herring all you want, it's still exclusionary content.

Hey, someone got specific with this cookie cutter nonsense. Let's tear this one down while swaying no one.
Wish it was someone besides Caketime, but I will take it.
Before I get started too tell your LS leader to not be so narrow minded and include at least BLU and DRG in those three jobs he demanded.

First off something needs to be understood. You can win without embrava. You can put in place of the SCHs a healer/buffer (RDM, WHM, SCH) and a Bard (lamp whore) and 4 DDs.

Is it optimal? No, but it can win. No matter how many combinations of jobs for an event there is always an optimal set up. No matter what event you are in there is an optimal set up. People need to stop confusing cookie cutters with optimal set up. If the someone wants an optimal set up for an event you can either go or take charge and go yourself to the event with the set up you want. No one forces you to do anything in this game.

Now, for first three DDs you can bring to nyzul you have DRK, WAR, SAM, BLU w/ requiscate, MNK, DRG.

For the fourth DD spot if you wanted to you could take these jobs: COR w/ last stand, DNC, emperian NIN, relic THF, k club RNG, relic BST, or even a relic WHM meleeing.

SO, that leaves out PUP (unless it has mythic), PLD, SMN, BLM. Those damn cookie cutters with their 16/17 out of 20 jobs able to come to an event.

However, yes, yes I know what you are saying. "Not everyone can get a k club or relic" while that is not technically true lets subtract those jobs.

So we have about 13 jobs that can go to nyzul out of 20. Such a cookie cutter event.

There are people who have very successful statics who have a THF come along. I personally will not even take THF to VW with me, but you get the point.

Overall, there are a lot of people who sell the gear to others and win with only five actively participating. To that extent any job in this game can go to Nyzul as their 6th.

This is not exclusionary content. This is content people want an optimal set up for even though they can actually win without it. If you have a problem with a group not wanting you then here is the shocker. You can make your own group. Who knew right?

[Kitkat]

First, to start off: I have 10/15 pieces of Nyzul gear. The group I went with primarily went with 2-3 blu, 2 sch, 1-2 drk. We actually had a very nice success rate (prior to switching out 2 members who either didn't bring meds as necessary, Dc'd during event, or slowed speed down of which were all 2hand DD with relics...go figure) prior to breaking up due to people not showing consistently and running into cheaters who compromised the rest of us. Basically got to the point most of us didn't trust anyone we didn't know personally since SE doesn't wear blinders and will indiscriminately ban not just guilty players but those associated within the same party/alliance. Do I care I'm not 15/15? No, cause I wouldn't use any of the pieces I didn't get and the set bonus doesn't make up for other gear slot choices in particular builds. Moving on....

Does the content need to be adjusted? This is up to some very particular insights on the event in general. The fact that it relies heavily on Embrava being on your DD's is the main nail in the coffin. The content on the other hand is not exceedingly difficult, but it does require that you are a decently-to-well geared player and a competent one as well.

Speaking from legitimate completion of the content it will require you use food, it will require you know how to effectively use gear, spells, ws, meds to your benefit, and it will require that you rely on a decent amount of luck (that you don't get too many kill all floors with HNM, or too many lamp order floors). That being said it is not the most "casual player" friendly since it does require that someone has mid-to-high range gear option available.

Making it a "speed run" type event does have its points and is somewhat enjoyable, but it would make more sense to give players the option to not require the speed run mechanics and instead lower the overall drop rate to compensate. By this I mean you still keep the current build of Neo-Nyzul as an option for certain players, but for those that are "casual" you give them the option to climb it like old nyzul. In this old-style Nyzul you remove the fl100 100% drop rate and possibly make the various KI drop rates less than 100% but greater than 60%. This would still give people who don't want to to speed runs, or can't seem to make the speed runs, work in their advantage without making it too easy to get the prize either.

These are just hypothetical drop rates on items/KI and would be open to further interpretation by Devs, but at least having the option for the casual end of the spectrum would up the overall popularity without compromising the distribution of the gear at the same time. It would just require that the devs put more effort into the content....which they should have done in the first place.

[MarkovChain]

Why do people keep bringing up limited job viability as an issue with Neo-Nyzul Isle?


Embrava and perfect defense have been the bane of the game since it was released, endgame content now systematically includes mobs that can kill you faster than AV could at 75, it's completely stupid. The reason SE is not going to ajust NI right now is because they cleverly analyzed the main complaints that people have towards the game in their census.

ADL/nyzul/voidwatch/legion = plenty of complaints that you can't kill stuff the normal way. All this comes from either temps or PD/embrava.

it results in job imbalance, systematical use of certain jobs (HELLO SMN and SCH in legion, ADL and nyzul, this leaves only 4 free spots and those have to be DDs)

The main root of the problem is perfect defense and embrava. Once fixed, if nyzul only had random luck factor it would not be as bad ; although they deserve a giant facepalm for not adressing the lamp order "bug" earlier.

With this into consideration, the ajustement I gave previously (F100= %drop rare, each boss drops 1 shard, 100 shard needed) will balance the event. Needless to say that with no embrava you are very unlikely to win even F80. Thus with the perspective of embrava nerf, making F20,40,60 important is going to be a necessity.

Also spicyryan is trying too hard to justify an event that was badly designed from start and everyone dislikes (see the census) and cannot be won legit without cheating somehow.

[Rambus]

People are still defending NNI? It's a horribly designed event and you all know it, lamp order floors and zerg tactics don't showcase your skill, it just showcases your willingness to jog on a hamster wheel for shinies.

I was shocked reading the posts here till I saw this. Yay for someone that actually thinks.


The reason it gets defended by a small portion of people is because theyve found it to be winnable, losing to random bad luck is something you have to overlook. Wanting SE to change the bad luck/obstacle element of NNI is about the same as asking for the gear to be handed to you a silver platter. I dont have an exceptionally high rate of victory on this content either and i have no sets of nyzul gear done yet. But the content is beatable. What gets me is why everytime i go to the portal, i see perle drgs and wars, with a whm, or ninjas, and they think they will win with such slow output. Then they wipe, lose, whatever comes about from it, then they come here and rage about how the content sucks and its too hard. Back before abyssea this game had setups and organization for content, its also a piece of content you cannot do everyday, so its not like lvling a job for it is so omg bad. Im glad the game is back to setups and organized job layouts for stuff like this. Running into every bit of content and zerging it with no effort is boring as hell. Say what you like, at the end of the day all the ranting in the world will change nothing.

Like relics and 'endgame gear' now? What happened to the game anyway. Does not hurt to ask for a reasonable event.

[Rambus]

The only places where you need high powered DD are Boss floors or floor 60+ leader / kill all floors. Those places then to have NMs with lots of HP that hit really hard.

We've won with various setups depending on who needed the gear that day.
Our super group / static that consistently won was
SCH
SCH
WAR (Rag)
WAR (Ukon)
THF (Mandau)
BLU (Almace, me)

Ride bergressor and eat meat while running around killing everything. We found a good BLU (read: not an abyssea / voidwatch proc onry BLU) to be invaluable. Requiscat and various damage types are helpful on floors with undead or flan NMs. That and BLU's can destroy EP~EM monsters while also being able to stun most NMs (not boss's though).

hey guys lets call a causal event that requires people to have emp,mythic, relic weapons while demanding 2 schs have 500 enchanting magic..


riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiighhht

Can someone explain what Tanaka's RNG means?

[Plasticleg]

hey guys lets call a causal event that requires people to have emp,mythic, relic weapons while demanding 2 schs have 500 enchanting magic..


riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiighhht

Casual events are [a], voidwatch, and neo-dyna.

But again, are you honestly looking for casual content in FFXI?

[Mefuki]

Honestly, what I wish they would do with NNI is make it more like old Nyzul. I want to be able to shout for a group and get a decent win rate, like old nyzul.

[Rambus]

Casual events are [a], voidwatch, and neo-dyna.

But again, are you honestly looking for casual content in FFXI?

at 75 no, but then there was this huge demand for the game to be more causal friendly and abyssea did that.

Then they made relics causal but mythics hard, I am pretty sure that is the reverse what SE intended. Then we get 99 weapon requirements for emps... then um..

point is i would really like a dividing line what is suppose to be casual or not because how to get emps mythics and relics is mixed with what a causal can achieve in a reasonable amount of time while needing to be hard core for others. (relics 75-99 is easy, afterglow is obnoxious, mythics always been obnoxious, emps are pretty easy casual heavily plates and i thought those weapons was meant to be most causal to do, not relics. There is a lot of mixed messages, would like clearer boundaries instead of changing what is harder to do every 6 months. like 90 emp being ok to do but with the 95 cap it is suddenly hard.)

[detlef]

Then they made relics causal but mythics hard, I am pretty sure that is the reverse what SE intended. Then we get 99 weapon requirements for emps... then um..What makes you think that mythics were ever intended to be casual? Especially at level 75? Assaults and Nyzul may be casual but Einherjar and Salvage were not, and the crazy amount of alex required (50k initially) does not scream casual content to me. In addition, the ToAU beastman kings were a lot more difficult back then between the adds and navigating to the NM's spawnpoint without losing people.

[Rambus]

They said it, something about it was quest based version of relics.
30000/50000 is not quest based lol

Oh i would agree with that, I do not think the idea they had matched the outcome lol

[Sp1cyryan]

Honestly, what I wish they would do with NNI is make it more like old Nyzul. I want to be able to shout for a group and get a decent win rate, like old nyzul.

Shouting for groups for old Nyzul often proved disastrous and was never better than a static. The same is true for new Nyzul. You can easily get a decent win rate in new Nyzul.

[Rambus]

Most of my climbs was shouts. I think my static broke because someone did not like the war using a riddle...

and was after the 2h buff where G-axe was standard, very dumb -.-

the reason i had problems making a pt is because people where 20,40,60,80,100 floor only

[Sp1cyryan]

the reason i had problems making a pt is because people where 20,40,60,80,100 floor only

That's the funny thing. People keep asking for the old Nyzul back. The Nyzul that in the same time frame it took me to climb to 100 before even farming the lower floors for gear. I had already finished in the new Nyzul.

Does no one remember killing the floor 80 boss three times and nothing dropping at all? Does no one remember killing the floor 80 Boss three times to get the same piece again and nothing the third time?

In 30 minutes from day 1 you have walked away with 0-4 pieces. The new Nyzul doesn't require you to climb for two months then go back for months to slowly acquire all the gear in wins that are the exact same as a loss when either nothing drops or the drop is what almost everyone has.

The old Nyzul should be respected for the enjoyable progression it brought, but the new Nyzul should be seen as more rewarding and befitting the modern era of FFXI.

Even some of the floor 80 pieces are second best to the floor 100 pieces. The only reason a group can't win floor 80 is because the sad truth is they either need more practice or they just are not that good.

People expect to go from events where there is no contest (any 75 content, any abyssea content, most of VW, in fact 95% of the game) to an area of contest and expect the same results of the game rolling over and giving up. I would rather have an element of difficulty come from a RNG that I overcome almost every single group of runs than the old days. The days of real difficulty where people had to cheat to kill AV or spend 18 hours fighting PW. There is your real difficulty, and what did the players have to show for it besides a pointless carrot and stick struggle? Nothing.

Nyzul Isle Uncharted is fine as is. Go out and enjoy the victory of something that is not just practically handed to you for a change.

[Aeonk]

That's the funny thing. People keep asking for the old Nyzul back. The Nyzul that in the same time frame it took me to climb to 100 before even farming the lower floors for gear. I had already finished in the new Nyzul.

Does no one remember killing the floor 80 boss three times and nothing dropping at all? Does no one remember killing the floor 80 Boss three times to get the same piece again and nothing the third time?

In 30 minutes from day 1 you have walked away with 0-4 pieces. The new Nyzul doesn't require you to climb for two months then go back for months to slowly acquire all the gear in wins that are the exact same as a loss when either nothing drops or the drop is what almost everyone has.

The old Nyzul should be respected for the enjoyable progression it brought, but the new Nyzul should be seen as more rewarding and befitting the modern era of FFXI.

Even some of the floor 80 pieces are second best to the floor 100 pieces. The only reason a group can't win floor 80 is because the sad truth is they either need more practice or they just are not that good.

People expect to go from events where there is no contest (any 75 content, any abyssea content, most of VW, in fact 95% of the game) to an area of contest and expect the same results of the game rolling over and giving up. I would rather have an element of difficulty come from a RNG that I overcome almost every single group of runs than the old days. The days of real difficulty where people had to cheat to kill AV or spend 18 hours fighting PW. There is your real difficulty, and what did the players have to show for it besides a pointless carrot and stick struggle? Nothing.

Nyzul Isle Uncharted is fine as is. Go out and enjoy the victory of something that is not just practically handed to you for a change.

This.
In the game's lifespan where even the hardest VW mobs can be won in shout groups, I'm glad there's something that still requires a higher level of teamwork than simply proc'ing your job's abilities/spells in order to be successful.

Yes it's very job exclusive. And? So was original Nyzul. So was Salvage. You level one of the jobs that's useful for the event you want gear from, or you don't participate. And with how stupid easy it is to level nowadays with the only real time sink/effort coming from skill ups, there's no real excuse to not have some melee job at this point.

[Razielrinz]

I wonder how many people who say this is fine or this is good cause its challenging are using 3rd party tools for the wins and just want to have "Exclusive Gear" to themselves. I see people running around my server with full sets and I just shake my head cause most of them are cheating. You know a event is too hard when the 15/15s are all most all cheaters.

[Camiie]

What makes you think that mythics were ever intended to be casual?

They said so. Sure, their actions didn't match their intentions, but it is what they told us.

[Demon6324236]

They were meant to be casual, and instead have become the most impossible things to make.

[Sp1cyryan]

I wonder how many people who say this is fine or this is good cause its challenging are using 3rd party tools for the wins and just want to have "Exclusive Gear" to themselves. I see people running around my server with full sets and I just shake my head cause most of them are cheating. You know a event is too hard when the 15/15s are all most all cheaters.

The old "most are all cheaters" routine egh?

About the only thing they can cheat on now is 'flee hacking' since order lamps are completely random since last update. Running around that fast is easier to catch as well. So the desperate people are more likely to get caught.

The Ukon WAR for our group was at a concert tonight so we had a stand in TP bonus magian katana SAM. Obviously brining our DD down a bit.
Both of our first two runs had order floors that took three guesses and the first had a kill all with WS restricted. We won the first run with 2 minutes left and the second run with over five minutes left. It was all done legitimately, and now I have 15/15 on my main and 15 pieces between the mules. 10/10 for Squishytaru (the popular 99MNK with no sub job) and 5/5 on my general purpose crafting mule for WHM, RDM, and SCH.
After going 30/15 legitimately I will say once again this event is not hard and does not need a change.

The third run we had a DRG stand in that no one wanted to come except one person who has been pushing for it because they feel they owe them a win. Not only were they slower than the SAM for the numerous all floors (gogo struggling to break 2k stardiver) we had time penalty gears get tripped. DRG killing a weapon instead of going to a lamp, etc. Not to mention the bullshit sleepga around the corner from a skeleton for a minute. We still got to 90 anyway despite all that and the low floor jumps at the end.

I don't know how many examples I really need to provide to show this is an easy event that gets offset by bad luck at times.

[MarkovChain]

The old "most are all cheaters" routine egh?

About the only thing they can cheat on now is 'flee hacking' since order lamps are completely random since last update.

The fact that you are hiding the common cheating ways people are using tells enough why you are in a crusade to justify nyzul. You still know how many lamps there are and still see through walls which helps for 100% of floor types so yeah.

[Kitkat]

I wonder how many people who say this is fine or this is good cause its challenging are using 3rd party tools for the wins and just want to have "Exclusive Gear" to themselves. I see people running around my server with full sets and I just shake my head cause most of them are cheating. You know a event is too hard when the 15/15s are all most all cheaters.

Had the replacements of my group gone to the lengths the rest of us did to keep up our success rate I could have been 15/15 and we didn't cheat. The biggest things that worked against us was extremely large floors, multiple lamp order, poor jumps, or a combination of kill all+lamp order. We had roughly a 40% success rate at reaching floor 100 that dropped to a dismal 5% because of players who refused to get meds, follow direction, or just didn't have movement+ gear. This also happened when people refused to setup preferred list to include sprinters drink...or just didn't use it for some reason.

3 to 4 runs every 2-3 days with only 1-2 wins each time was our average turn around. There were times we got to floor 100 but couldn't kill before time expired. It doesn't take a cheater to only win, they just win easier than intended. It doesn't take a super elite player to win either, but you won't be winning it without average to above average gear and at least a lvl 85 emp weapon depending on job. I honestly don't think some jobs even need a relic or emp to beat this given how good merited WS are, but it certainly helps.

So if you are running around in less than average gear, or can't find a group of individuals that can follow directions, get meds, or use preferred items appropriately then yes...this event will not be easy or totally completable for you. You can however continue to do the event and set goals. Floor 60 and 80 drops the +2, +3, and piece of HQ KI which allows you to at least work on getting better gear as you work through the event. If all you are looking at is floor 100 completion and how "impossibly hard" it is then you missed the point of some of the changes SE has already made to the content.

Did I run around with some +3 items? Yes I did. I used these until I got the HQ items through the chance we actually made it all the way to floor 100, but the rate at which I got KI/+3 was low because we set the goal for floor 100 each run. This means we rarely saw floor boss on 20/40/60/80, but it still happened. If a group purposely sets a goal to hit these floors they still get better than average gear choices (at 80) and a chance to eventually get a HQ item. This is the part that has been set to players that aren't yet situated gear or else wise to reach 100 thus giving them a chance to get there, but at a slower rate.

Suggestion I made in a prior post wouldn't be any faster than this type of progression since the drop rates would be lowered exponentially to compensate for how much easier it would be to reach floor 100 via old nyzul way. You need to look at how adjustments would work in comparison to the gear reward before you automaticaly expect an adjustment. I know that if I ever did want to return to doing nyzul I would need either a semi-competent group with decent gear or a well geared group that is effecient to once again get floor 100 wins, but they would also have to understand that the win rate is rather low when done legitimately. One bad floor can cause the entire run to be lost in the long run, bad jump rates too. That is just how the event is set up, but at least getting to floor 100 is possible and getting at least 1 item 100% at your choice is nice. Some runs we managed to get 2 drops plus the KI giving some of us 2 items for 1 run.

My suggestion to you, before you say only cheaters can complete this, is to at least build a group for it first. The sch requirement is sadly just that...a requirement. They don't need to have 500 enhancing, but it certainly helps as does having +2 emp hands (this more so than 500 enhancing actually). If they can get more enhancing than base that would be ideal, but 500 is not a requirement it is just a bonus. Depending on what sort of DD you can compile and how well you know these people to follow directions, be willing to spend gil on meds, and agree on preferred items setup will be a vast majority of your success rate. I would then do full tags worth of 100 goal set runs just to see what your average attained floor is based on floor jumps. If you at least get 60, but your jump rates are poor (2~4 floors per jump) then you can easily hit floor 80 and possibly get 100 on occasion. If your jump rates are good and still 60 then you might want to see where your problem issues are, discuss it, and then try again to see if you can correct it before setting a goal.

Like I said, the success rate of my group was dictated by this and this above all else. When we ran into members who didn't give it their all and wasted time it created problems and also lowered overall moral (since 3 of the members were actually capped on gear but stuck around to help the rest). Why don't you try doing that first before you see someone with the gear and automatically assume cheater.

[MarkovChain]

You would be credible if you didn't emphasize on gear quality (empy 85+ guys) and not cheating. It's obvious to anyone that has done nyzul that luck factor is 100% of the event. Killall are among the faster floors obviously and time waster are all kind of lamps and bad floor jump# luck.

[Kitkat]

Incorrect, I stated that based on job emp of 85+ goes a long way. I did not state that gear had to be exceptional, but it couldn't be bad or poor either. And I actually emphasized on the fact of team work and overall utility of meds, spells, preferred items over gear. Gear is only a part of the equation. Do try to understand where I emphasize more over the lesser areas.

I also didn't state that luck had nothing to do with it, hence why I stated our success rate was under 50%, because there were runs where we did get bad luck with jumps, multiple order lamps, or multiple kill all floors. Just so you know, at floors 60+ you will run into HNM in kill all floors such as Hydra, Khimera, behemoth, or fafnir which do take longer than running into normal mobs and trashing them. Thus Kill all floors can be slower than any other floor you'll run into.

Kill all are still a a time waste over Kill spec, Kill fam, or code lamp. Even kill leader is faster than a kill all making the two most time consuming floors a kill all and lamp order floor. The secondary time waster comes from the fact that people are unwilling to use meds, use preferred items when needed, or do not follow directions (namely have one person dictate lamp order so time isn't wasted on two or more calling out orders). The least of these comes down to what you say I emphasized on since it is just a portion of the equation and through effort and time they can upgrade their gear choices (of which is true in any event regardless of how you look at it since more often than not that is the sole purpose of the event, to get better gear).

To further elaborate:
People don't do VW for no reason, they do it for drops which are for gear or items to upgrade certain gear (emp weapons).
People don't do Abyssea NM for no reason, they do them for KI or to upgrade to better gear/weapons, or as a form of income.
People don't do Dynamis for no reason, they do it for gear/weapon upgrades, to make relics, or as a form of income.
People didn't do Sky for no reason, they did it for gear or income.
People didn't do Kings for no reason, they did it for gear or income.
Salvage wasn't done for no reason, it was done for gear or income.

This is the only part of gear emphasizes I made, not that you had to be exceptionally well geared. You could be averagely geared, be competent enough to use different WS sets and tp sets as needed, and still go far in this event so long as team work and effort to use other viable enhancers takes place. That is a given for any event that has ever come into FFXI.

I'm starting to get the idea that some of you are more agitated that you can't do this with a mule or something and still get the gear rather than the actual difficulty. It isn't that hard of content, but it isn't something you're going to get into a pickup group and hope to succeed in with a high success rate either. In the 10 years the game has been around mentality for events has always had to change....this is no different.

[Sp1cyryan]

The fact that you are hiding the common cheating ways people are using tells enough why you are in a crusade to justify nyzul. You still know how many lamps there are and still see through walls which helps for 100% of floor types so yeah.

I am not hiding anything. -_-

I was putting out there that probably the most beneficial and common way of cheating was fixed by SE. The last big thing left is people who flee around the zone. Knowing how many lamps there are on the floor wouldn't change anything. People have to fan out and find them. I know the people I am running with (besides the DRK being on xbox) do not see how many lamps there are. As for the walls it is not game breaking either.

Looking through walls and knowing there is more than one lamp (no one uses their radar anymore..?) must be it! That must be how he generally has such an easy time in Nyzul!

McHammer - Too Legit to Quit.

[MarkovChain]

Looking through walls and knowing there is more than one lamp (no one uses their radar anymore..?) must be it! That must be how he generally has such an easy time in Nyzul!

McHammer - Too Legit to Quit.

Yeah ok Mr noone, since when can you see lamps on radar when they are further than casting range ? Me think you are mixing somoething with something-radar (common cheat). Try harder ? If you pop on a floor and see a "number 1" lamp there is a chance it's a code floor but if you see "lamp4" you know you'all have at least 4 lamps to seek. Simarly seeing through walls allows you to go quickly to them. Stop acting like you don't do all this lol. I'd say 99% of the player do it.

Name changing and seing through walls still cuts lamps floors, and all type of enemy floors by 2.

[Demon6324236]

Thats the insulting thing about you, no matter what someone says you refuse to believe them because they disagree with what you believe. I cant say hes cheating or not, but either way without knowing, you cant really accuse em of it.

[MarkovChain]

I don't insult anyone, I'm saying claiming that the radar allows you to see lamps is an obviously skewed argument ; the same guy he trying his best on every forum to justify nyzul, even claiming a 50% winrate post VU on some forums.

[Demon6324236]

I'm just saying the way you put it seems insulting, it seems as if you jump to conclusions and think all others much cheat because they make progress in this event, even if you cant. I don't know if you have done this, if you care, or what is said on other forums. I was simply telling you how it sounded from where I'm sitting & how it seemed. In either case if he cheats then oh well, I really couldn't care less at this point simply because this game is disappointing me alot lately, and if they cheat then so be it, they get a reward they don't deserve and likely don't know how to use. This isn't aimed at him either though, its simply how I feel about anyone who cheats for this gear.

[wish12oz]

It's obvious to anyone that has done nyzul that luck factor is 100% of the event. .

That doesn't make the event not winnable.
In fact, with good players you can win 30% or more of the runs you go on. Quit complaining so much about an event thats easy to win, and go do it instead of being such a bad player.

[MarkovChain]

I'm just saying the way you put it seems insulting, it seems as if you jump to conclusions and think all others much cheat because they make progress in this event, even if you cant. I don't know if you have done this, if you care, or what is said on other forums. I was simply telling you how it sounded from where I'm sitting & how it seemed. In either case if he cheats then oh well, I really couldn't care less at this point simply because this game is disappointing me alot lately, and if they cheat then so be it, they get a reward they don't deserve and likely don't know how to use. This isn't aimed at him either though, its simply how I feel about anyone who cheats for this gear.

It's ok Mr troll, I don't think I mentionned anywhere I don't make progress in the event ? I'm entitle to criticize an event about as much as you, even when you disagree with it. Nyzul complaints scored high in the census, and SE implicity admitted massive cheating by "fixing the bug lamp", so .. welcome to ffxi ? Whenever people can cheat, they do it especially when it's not controlled. If you want to verify what I'm saying go in beaucedine glacier and enjoy the show.

[Sp1cyryan]

Yeah ok Mr noone, since when can you see lamps on radar when they are further than casting range ? Me think you are mixing somoething with something-radar (common cheat). Try harder ?

wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Radar

Casting range? What?

wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Distance

I never said I was anyone in the first place. So Mr. noone fits. I think Demon6324236 sums up the situation in his post or two so not much else really needs to be said.

You could "try harder" to say I am cheating though. It does not matter if we saw lamp numbers as we all split up on a lamp floor so if someone spots a register (commonly known as hey we haven't found a lamp yet) we all turn and run to it. It is the same strategy regardless. Seeing mob numbers does nothing either as we spread out and kill. If the floor is over go up and if not we keep looking for the mobs. Nothing changes that at all and why you think that saves time I do not know.


I'm saying claiming that the radar allows you to see lamps is an obviously skewed argument

Because knowing there is a lamp in that maze or not saves time from having to round corners to check?

Saying seeing mob numbers and lamp numbers when the order is completely random now, allows you to win much more is much more skewed than saying that the radar/compass helps.

A sprinters drink will do you more good than knowing there are a certain number of mobs on the floor. If the floor hasn't been completed then obviously there are more mobs. What is the advantage there?

In all honesty does standing near the "tha winnurs R jus' ull cheet3rz" line to make up for the likely assumption that you struggle to do Nyzul? It is completely obvious that it is not even close to impossible for people (lets say 6 PS2 players while we are at it) to win this event regularly.
Any argument for changing the way Nyzul is should not come to the basis of going on about cheats. My take on it is that someone like Razielrinz can't preform well in Nyzul and hides behind 'well they are just cheaters is why I can't win' line of childish and petty logic.

All these groups win not because they are superman with x ray vision through walls, but because they are a solid, well geared, and coordinated group from the get-go.

[MarkovChain]

The radar only show objects next to you idiot. The ability to check ITG mobs through walls, know in advance where a boss or a family is or where a lamp is has been a common cheat ever since nyzul V1 that was never fixed. There is a reason people QQ about nyzul, because even with massive cheat the win rate is pathetic (even less now).

[Sp1cyryan]

The radar only show objects next to you idiot.

What happened to you going on about casting range? AKA 20 yalms. Besides saying radar sounds close to a popular cheat. I suggest you differentiate yourself from those cheaters. So can we stop with the cheating nonsense being thrown left and right?


The ability to check ITG mobs through walls, know in advance where a boss or a family is or where a lamp is has been a common cheat ever since nyzul V1 that was never fixed.

I guess not. Is everything a "cheat" to you?

I suppose hitting tab repetitively and it getting things randomly in the distance you can not see yet is a common cheat too? While we are at is we could stoop to Rosina levels and just call gear swapping cheating. At this point I just don't know anymore.


There is a reason people QQ about nyzul, because even with massive cheat the win rate is pathetic (even less now).

OH SNAP! THE CHEATS HAVE EVOLVED INTO "MASSIVE CHEAT"!

What is a pathetic win rate anyway? I would say the win rates of others that have been mentioned in Nyzul threads are not pathetic at all.

I think people QQ because they are not having the game roll over and give up under their glare like with almost all the other content. Take that for what you will though.

[Demon6324236]

You don't insult anyone, yet you call me a troll for telling you how I read what you sounded like, and call him an idiot for... what again? Looks like he knows how it works, thats why hes linking it to you in the 1st place. And I said I don't know your progress, but from how you seem to act, and the general opinion you have given about its gear much like VW, I assume you either don't have any, or don't have much. If I'm wrong, oh well, nothing that really mattered to me, its just that you seem to be saying hes a cheater & condemning him without knowing for sure, and to be so adamant about someone cheating who of which you likely don't know I figure you either have a grudge against them, or the event, and in this case I suspect the event. The reason for that is because you have shown this attitude when talking to others about this, and even gave your challenge for someone to post a vid of winning. This all adds up to you saying anyone who claims to win, are cheaters. Or at least this is how it looks to me, in either case don't misunderstand my words... its rather annoying to have to correct it.

[Sp1cyryan]

and even gave your challenge for someone to post a vid of winning. This all adds up to you saying anyone who claims to win, are cheaters. Or at least this is how it looks to me, in either case don't misunderstand my words... its rather annoying to have to correct it.

I would go out and post videos just for them, but I am sure they would start saying that other members must have been looking through walls while making pacts with the the patron saint Joe Pesci while tickling the midget who cleans the bathrooms near the servers. Then happens to return the favor by quickly becoming a FFXI savant whom blinks once, sneezes, and wiggles their nose. Causing then a cascade of free floor nine floor jumps over and over. Magically handing 30 pieces of floor 100 gear to myself as well as the cure for the diabetes my static formed in the course of a month of running every three to four days for a couple of hours.

It is just willful ignorance and you can not do much about that. That attitude from them is mildly amusing though.

[MarkovChain]

What happened to you going on about casting range? AKA 20 yalms. Besides saying radar sounds close to a popular cheat. I suggest you differentiate yourself from those cheaters. So can we stop with the cheating nonsense being thrown left and right?



I guess not. Is everything a "cheat" to you?

I suppose hitting tab repetitively and it getting things randomly in the distance you can not see yet is a common cheat too? While we are at is we could stoop to Rosina levels and just call gear swapping cheating. At this point I just don't know anymore.



OH SNAP! THE CHEATS HAVE EVOLVED INTO "MASSIVE CHEAT"!

What is a pathetic win rate anyway? I would say the win rates of others that have been mentioned in Nyzul threads are not pathetic at all.

I think people QQ because they are not having the game roll over and give up under their glare like with almost all the other content. Take that for what you will though.

Your are using the same argument as the 50 other NNI fans that preceded you. So your opinion is just that, one of a cheater willing to defend his pixels.


I assume you either don't have any, or don't have much

That's because you don't think out of the box, the difference between you and me is that I can analyze an event whether I'm implied or not. I'm not the kind of person to QQ for the sake of QQing, I'm letting this to the BG crowed. The fact NNI is the worst event released ever, and that people used to massively cheat and still massively cheat. You know, back at 75 every single Fafnir was botted but it didn't bother SE much, and also people have always botted their fishes without SE doing serious countermeasures.

Also your opinon doesn't matter since you have one on every single which by definition makes you a bad troll ? Do the event and then make up your opinion.

[Demon6324236]

I have done NNI, I have not won it due to bad jumps or stupid party members. Its not as if I just talk out my ass. My opinion is the event is to luck based, skill mitigates the luck factor, so does gear, however neither of the 2 can remove luck as it is built as a core mechanic of the event. Luck should exist in the game as it is a base RPG & MMO element however the amount of things that are at random in NNI is to much, which leads me to think of it as a poor event. There are parts of it that are unnecessary luck, such as order lamps. Same time & code require teamwork, as everyone must time it together for them to win, or they must gather at the coded lamp, while remembering the way back to the start to continue on. Pathos are another thing of luck that I disagree with, they can easily kill you depending on what floor they land on and what one it is. For instance a Kill All floor, when your Embrava just went down at the end of the last floor, and you are restricted to no White Magic, or a Boss floor with no Weapon Skills.

In the end, I know people cheat and always have, its something people do on any game in existence, they find a way to cheat, and do it. In this case, people cheat in NNI a number of ways. Flee hacking, clipping, fillmode(sees through walls), the old .dat hacking, and probably more. The fact of the matter is that unless you know the person is cheating you cant really make that call. The attitude you seem to have about it leads me to believe you have not beat it, or have such a hard time with it, that anyone you see who says they have 15/15, and a high win rate must be cheaters because to you, there is no other way.

[Sp1cyryan]

Your are using the same argument as the 50 other NNI fans that preceded you. So your opinion is just that, one of a cheater willing to defend his pixels.

*looks at your signature picture*

Riiiiiight.


That's because you don't think out of the box

Ignorance is bliss.


the difference between you and me is that I can analyze an event whether I'm implied or not. I'm not the kind of person to QQ for the sake of QQing,

What..? Analyze a statement you mean?
Analyze a event? Like Nyzul? Either the English is poor or you have something to do with being able to analyze Nyzul as an event.

At least you admit you are crying rather than actually putting up some real element to debate. "QQ I can get a 99 relic, but Nyzul (which actually takes less work to get gear than doing ADL, who while we are at it also is not something you can win all of the time and goes down to chance aka RNG) because mainly cheaters only win Nyzul".


The fact NNI is the worst event released ever, and that people used to massively cheat and still massively cheat.

FFS when it comes down to it I see more people 'flee hacking' in Dynamis and everyday Vana'diel life because they are just being lazy. I am willing to bet there are more chocobo blinker bots than people who even do Nzyul.


The fact NNI is the worst event released ever, and that people used to massively cheat and still massively cheat. You know, back at 75 every single Fafnir was botted but it didn't bother SE much, and also people have always botted their fishes without SE doing serious countermeasures.

Also your opinon doesn't matter since you have one on every single which by definition makes you a bad troll ? Do the event and then make up your opinion.

I will leave you with your own response.

"Also your opinon doesn't matter since you have one on every single which by definition makes you a bad troll ? Do the event and then make up your opinion."

[Plasticleg]

This event is/has always been highly skewed with luck, even if you are using 3rd party tools.
People who use them know the risk and don't go crying bloody murder if they get b&.
With that said, you don't "need" an optimal set up for the event, the mobs aren't hard and it's just nyzul.
However, if you want to up your chances of winning, you better have a way you can communicate fast and embrava up for efficiency.
The only reason I would use for SE nerfing Embrava, is so that the win rate (hitting floor 100) will be dramatically reduced, making more attempts required to max out at 15/15. The longer they can keep you running on the hamster wheel, the more months you will dump into their billing cycle to keep your characters active while we mentally wait for SoA. Oh, and if you think they're going to nerf anything about NNI's funtastic win-rate with Embrava's nerf, take off the rose colored glasses and smell the Folger's in your cup. It's a crappy use of artificial difficulty.

Be half of an adult and hit "ignore" on me/pchan instead of turning the thread into another rendition of "the troll that cried troll".

[Demon6324236]

The longer they can keep you running on the hamster wheel, the more months you will dump into their billing cycle to keep your characters active while we mentally wait for SoA.The only problem with this is people like me who look at stupid shit and then walk away from the game for that reason, rather than staying & running on my wheel.

[Sp1cyryan]

Be half of an adult and hit "ignore" on me/pchan instead of turning the thread into another rendition of "the troll that cried troll".

I think the entire world hit the "ignore" button on Pchan.

[wish12oz]

My favorite thing about Pchan is that he uses parsers, windower, and other 3rd party tools, then tries to give other people grief about using them.

[Sp1cyryan]

My favorite thing about Pchan is that he uses parsers, windower, and other 3rd party tools, then tries to give other people grief about using them.

Hey, everyone knows parsers are game breaking. Anyone who ever won Nyzul used a parser!

[Razielrinz]

I retract my previous statement about everyone being a cheat. I have talked extensively with some people who run this on my server and these people win without cheating so it is possible. I guess my complaint comes down to its not fun for me. Ok this is my opinion, its not fun to have to spend all the time I have in game trying to get the right people together to run this event to get a couple pieces of gear that I want. All the good people I know either have 15/15 and are done with it cause its not a fun event to run or are in statics trying to get their 15/15. I have spent 2 weeks in game trying to put together the right group to no avail. So I guess my true gripe is it is not fun to have to spend time trying to put this together with my limited time. People I trust to not cheat say its possible (just really hard) to win reliably without cheating then I withdraw my argument that everyone is cheating. I do think that if this was like old Nyzul (even with different drop rates) it would be better for people like me who have limited time and limited resources.

[Sp1cyryan]

I retract my previous statement about everyone being a cheat. I have talked extensively with some people who run this on my server and these people win without cheating so it is possible.
You don't say? (http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzrkynBlBs1r6t444o2_500.png)


I guess my complaint comes down to its not fun for me.

Perhaps you are just not ready for Nyzul? Perhaps you just need more practice? It is only not fun for you because you are not winning and do nothing but struggle. It honestly should not be that way.


Ok this is my opinion, its not fun to have to spend all the time I have in game trying to get the right people together to run this event to get a couple pieces of gear that I want. All the good people I know either have 15/15 and are done with it cause its not a fun event to run or are in statics trying to get their 15/15. I have spent 2 weeks in game trying to put together the right group to no avail. So I guess my true gripe is it is not fun to have to spend time trying to put this together with my limited time.

What..? I can go to PJ right now and in one shout I will have a handful of people who want to go. Generally they are all well prepared believe it or not. Almost every single person out of maybe 15 people I have seen interested in coming with me has some form of emperian/relic/mythic. If they do not then at least everyone else has the next best thing.

Make a post on AH.com or even anywhere for that matter? Evaluate the days and times you are going? Talk to people you know? I assure you that (assuming you are not geared casually) this event can be done very causally. In fact some people that I have had in the static (after 30 pieces of gear people come in and out here and there) outside of school, work, life, etc do not have much time for the game.


People I trust to not cheat say its possible (just really hard) to win reliably without cheating then I withdraw my argument that everyone is cheating.

It still is not "hard" it just has chance play a factor.

It is not hard to draw the shortest or longest straws when drawing straws. Chance just plays a roll and you get what you get.


I do think that if this was like old Nyzul (even with different drop rates) it would be better for people like me who have limited time and limited resources.

Introducing Meeble Burrows! What, do you want a Mythic for each job too?

I do think that perhaps an event that drops some of the best gear in the game in a single 30M run perhaps might just not be the event you are looking for. Perhaps from everything I have heard you are not cut out for Nyzul because from everything I have gathered you just are not that good.

Don't take it personally as it speaks to nothing of you as a person. Most of the game is accessible to you easily. Just not everything is your cup of tea at this point.

[Demon6324236]

Just to say, because someone does not enjoy an event does not mean "is only not fun for you because you are not winning" some things are just generally boring, I mean honestly, alot of this game is boring for me winning or not.

[Sp1cyryan]

Just to say, because someone does not enjoy an event does not mean "is only not fun for you because you are not winning" some things are just generally boring, I mean honestly, alot of this game is boring for me winning or not.

After them going on about only the cheaters win. Which do you think is more likely?

[Caketime]

Just to say, because someone does not enjoy an event does not mean "is only not fun for you because you are not winning" some things are just generally boring, I mean honestly, alot of this game is boring for me winning or not.

This. I'm finding it pretty amazing that this thread keeps going page after page with the same guy telling all opposition to this event that they're terrible at the game and dictating what's fun at everyone around him. Reminds me of a former patient that was obsessed with Baseball to the point where he'd argue with himself about batting averages.

[Eldelphia]

NNI excludes a greater range of players than most other events. To be effective is to have 4 x high powered DD and 2 SCH. I've done some and had a mixed set of runs which weren't bad for a pickup. It's designed for statics with PUGs having random luck. This excludes a considerable portion of the population who don't have a) SCH and decent Enhancing skill or b) a certain melee DD with a 90+ empy/mythic/relic weapon.

[Sp1cyryan]

This. I'm finding it pretty amazing that this thread keeps going page after page with the same guy telling all opposition to this event that they're terrible at the game and dictating what's fun at everyone around him. Reminds me of a former patient that was obsessed with Baseball to the point where he'd argue with himself about batting averages.

I am now a mental patient.

Love your analogies Caketime.

Stay thirsty my friend.

[Caketime]

I am now a mental patient.

Love your analogies Caketime.

Stay thirsty my friend.

You said it, not me. I pretty much gave up on having an intelligent conversation with you when you posted against the idea of having a built in voice chat option for the game simply to oppose everything I said. I mean, who would want that sort of functionality when we can just use third party apps?

[Sp1cyryan]

You said it, not me. I pretty much gave up on having an intelligent conversation with you when you posted against the idea of having a built in voice chat option for the game simply to oppose everything I said. I mean, who would want that sort of functionality when we can just use third party apps?

Well doesn't that just speak volumes?

Why should SE put in development time for a voice chat system across multiple platforms when 9 times out of 10 people who have internet and this game have a computer to use that internet on? The idea is just silly and a huge waste of time since it is not just for a single platform.

I am not out to oppose everything you said and you know that. You were the one who first started saying it did not matter what I said as you did not really care one way or the other, not I. so please do not try to put spin on it.

You seem to say third party apps like it is a bad thing. Yes Skype is a third party application, but so is an internet browser for that matter.

I wish SE develop their own internet browser so I did not have to use third party applications for posting on the FFXI official forums!

[MarkovChain]

The simple fact that voice chat is essential to win (with your piercing eyes seeing faraway through walls and still useful dat numbers) should say enough to SE :

First what do I do as french if I team up with non french speakers ; I mean I can understand and type engish relatively correctly but as for oral english nope.

What about me playing with japanese or ukrainians ?

So basically as french I'm forced to play with french, and the game supports french I hear. I mean the french forums are empty.

But I think we should be waiting first for the new 2Hours nerf before pseculating about the changes?

[FrankReynolds]

Well doesn't that just speak volumes?

Why should SE put in development time for a voice chat system across multiple platforms when 9 times out of 10 people who have internet and this game have a computer to use that internet on? The idea is just silly and a huge waste of time since it is not just for a single platform.

I am not out to oppose everything you said and you know that. You were the one who first started saying it did not matter what I said as you did not really care one way or the other, not I. so please do not try to put spin on it.

You seem to say third party apps like it is a bad thing. Yes Skype is a third party application, but so is an internet browser for that matter.

I wish SE develop their own internet browser so I did not have to use third party applications for posting on the FFXI official forums!

I agree wholeheartedly with you. Why should SE develop something that already exists? I mean they should just stop developing games entirely. Most people who have a computer / console gaming system already have games installed, so no need for SE to run out and develop more. Why would people want to pay them to develop something that already exists right?

[Caketime]

Why should SE put in development time for a voice chat system across multiple platforms when 9 times out of 10 people who have internet and this game have a computer to use that internet on? The idea is just silly and a huge waste of time since it is not just for a single platform.

Because built in voice chatting would eliminate the requirement for using things like Skype to talk to someone for a one time event or a pick-up party, and voice chatting makes communication easier. I'm sure you think it's completely stupid since you've managed to write another post that is completely against the idea simply because I'm the one talking about it. You would rather give out your contact information to people, and that's fine, but I'm not one of those and I feel that being able to voice chat without having to screw around with a contact list or worrying if the person I'm giving my information to is going to be a shitlord and order me a bunch of pizzas or something would be immensely convenient. Awesome, even.


I am not out to oppose everything you said and you know that. You were the one who first started saying it did not matter what I said as you did not really care one way or the other, not I. so please do not try to put spin on it.

Clearly you are, as your entire post is about how stupid the idea is and is based only on your contempt for me rather than anything tangible.


You seem to say third party apps like it is a bad thing. Yes Skype is a third party application, but so is an internet browser for that matter.

I wish SE develop their own internet browser so I did not have to use third party applications for posting on the FFXI official forums!

This is where you're confusing yourself with things I posted and shit you've made up. Third party apps aren't bad, but people are, and I expect the worst from each and every one of them. I'm sure you'll find a reason to justify your stance while attempting to discredit and/or misquote me, looking forward to that. Could you also add some assumptions in as well? That'd be great.

[Demon6324236]

I agree wholeheartedly with you. Why should SE develop something that already exists? I mean they should just stop developing games entirely. Most people who have a computer / console gaming system already have games installed, so no need for SE to run out and develop more. Why would people want to pay them to develop something that already exists right?

Thats getting a bit stupid with it imo. It would be nice for SE to add a voice system to FFXI seeing as communication is a massive part needed in some events such as NNI. At the same time making one may ultimately be undo-able for cross platform. If you cant talk via cross platform it seems kinda pointless seeing as the only players who would be able to use it would likely be PC players, which already have access to other forms like Skype. Also players who only play FFXI on Xbox and not on PC, could use Skype on a nearby computer rather than being unable to because their friend/party are using "game-chat".

As for it being because of third-party programs, if that is the reason why that is being talked about even, its stupid. I am 99% sure when third-party programs come up they are referring to any program made by someone other than SE which directly interacts with the game in some way. Internet Explorer does not, Skype does not, Windower does, Parsers do. Easy way to tell the difference in my opinion.

If SE is counting things like Skype & Internet Explorer against players, then they need to ban every PC player on the game for the internet, most players on Xbox for Xbox Live voice-chat/skype & the internet, and some PS2 players for the internet & chat programs.

[detlef]

One thing we know about SE's voice chat system: it will suck and people will hate it.

What a silly thing to request.

[Demon6324236]

Because built in voice chatting would eliminate the requirement for using things like Skype to talk to someone for a one time event or a pick-up party, and voice chatting makes communication easier. I'm sure you think it's completely stupid since you've managed to write another post that is completely against the idea simply because I'm the one talking about it. You would rather give out your contact information to people, and that's fine, but I'm not one of those and I feel that being able to voice chat without having to screw around with a contact list or worrying if the person I'm giving my information to is going to be a shitlord and order me a bunch of pizzas or something would be immensely convenient. Awesome, even.

If this is your concern, then you simply make a 2nd account with completely false information. For instance I have a Skype account I use with people I do not know or do not trust, I live in 666, Asshole Dr. in the city of Hell, Ohio. Obviously such a place does not exist, my info is not given out, and I can talk with whomever I wish. Best thing about this is since nothing on the account even matters anyways you can name it something pointlessly retarded you remember easily with the password of 123456 and it doesn't matter because the only use for it is to talk to people you will probably never really talk to again anyways.

[Caketime]

If this is your concern, then you simply make a 2nd account with completely false information. For instance I have a Skype account I use with people I do not know or do not trust, I live in 666, Asshole Dr. in the city of Hell, Ohio. Obviously such a place does not exist, my info is not given out, and I can talk with whomever I wish. Best thing about this is since nothing on the account even matters anyways you can name it something pointlessly retarded you remember easily with the password of 123456 and it doesn't matter because the only use for it is to talk to people you will probably never really talk to again anyways.

I will not do this.

[Demon6324236]

Well then sorry to tell you but your chances of getting what you want is slim. As I said, the main reason SE would think about this I think is cross platform, and due to that likely not being possible, I just cant see them putting in the time to make it when other programs exist already that allow for easy voice communication.

[Caketime]

Well then sorry to tell you but your chances of getting what you want is slim. As I said, the main reason SE would think about this I think is cross platform, and due to that likely not being possible, I just cant see them putting in the time to make it when other programs exist already that allow for easy voice communication.

No need for apologies, I'm well aware that it's not likely to happen. I'm just surprised that there's such adamant opposition to it.

[Demon6324236]

Well please don't take what I say as opposition, but simply as doubt.

[Glamdring]

yep, put me down with those who don't think neo-nyzul is broken. broken means something isn't working (see voidwatch drop rates, etc.), but it doesn't collapse, freeze, randomly play cb signals through your speakers or delete your drops. there's a difference between broken and stupid design, this falls into the latter. Just so we are clear on the part I consider a stupid design-if you do everything right you should reach your goal, here it's if you do everything right... maybe you get to your goal.

[Sp1cyryan]

Most people who have a computer / console gaming system already have games installed, so no need for SE to run out and develop more. Why would people want to pay them to develop something that already exists right?

Apples to oranges? Please don't be stupid with it.


Because built in voice chatting would eliminate the requirement for using things like Skype to talk to someone for a one time event or a pick-up party, and voice chatting makes communication easier.

Chatting programs that exist by far and wide are generally for one platform. Skype is available on multiple platforms such as Linux. However the Linux version is an older version of Skype that does not really measure up to the Windows version. The Mac version of Skype also lags behind the Windows version. That is just a company dedicated to just Skype. You really want Square Enix with the lack of manpower on XI compared to their other projects. To stop what they are developing to make a decent VOIP for PS2/3, Xbox 360, and PC? You want them to make a VOIP for PS2 for that matter? Come on please do not be silly.

Once more even if SE took the time to make a decent three platform VOIP why would the majority of players stop using Skype, Vent, TS, or Mumble in favor of SEs VOIP? If you think about the whole picture there should be no reason I should have to really explain this.



I'm sure you think it's completely stupid since you've managed to write another post that is completely against the idea simply because I'm the one talking about it.

Please do not play the victim. It does not provide any real credence or substance to a conversation.



You would rather give out your contact information to people, and that's fine, but I'm not one of those and I feel that being able to voice chat without having to screw around with a contact list or worrying if the person I'm giving my information to is going to be a shitlord and order me a bunch of pizzas or something would be immensely convenient. Awesome, even.

I am going to avoid really even talking about this, but on a side note. How funny would it be if you turned out to be someone who uses a social network?



Clearly you are, as your entire post is about how stupid the idea is and is based only on your contempt for me rather than anything tangible.

Please reread my post and use your critical thinking skills. I believe this may provide you with clarification as to your belief I am against SE making a VOIP for the platforms of FFXI just because you want it. Once again, you are not special enough for me to single out and alter my speech just to spite you.



This is where you're confusing yourself with things I posted and shit you've made up. Third party apps aren't bad, but people are, and I expect the worst from each and every one of them. I'm sure you'll find a reason to justify your stance while attempting to discredit and/or misquote me, looking forward to that. Could you also add some assumptions in as well? That'd be great.

I am not out to justify what I say. Take it for what you will.


yep, put me down with those who don't think neo-nyzul is broken.

Shhh, you were supposed to drink the Kool-Aid on the way in.

[Caketime]

You're right, you shouldn't have to explain your points, or justify any of your arguments because that would make too much sense. Let's have snow cones instead.

[Sp1cyryan]

You're right, you shouldn't have to explain your points, or justify any of your arguments because that would make too much sense. Let's have snow cones instead.

Sure, sounds good.

[FrankReynolds]

Apples to oranges? Please don't be stupid with it.


I wasn't being stupid with it. You were. The need for a chat app was created by SE. They put an event that more or less requires voice chat into a game that does not support voice chat. You are lacking important mental faculties if you don't see the problem there.

It's dumb to build an event that requires features not included in the game. It's extra dumb if you aren't even smart enough to sell the required features yourself and instead let some other guy provide them while simultaneously spamming your players with advertisements for competitors games and / or charging them money that you could have made your self. That is from a developer standpoint. From a customer standpoint, being against building the functionality needed to play the game into the game is just plain retarded.

[Kincard]

Wait, why are people talking about voice chat being a "requirement" when JPs have beaten the event, and will continue to beat the event, despite almost never using voice chat? (In shout groups, no less)

Voice chat isn't a requirement, that's a silly thing to say...does it increase your chance of winning? Certainly, it helps your team coordinate better and that makes a huge, huge difference in this event- except that's something you can apply to every event...ever, including ones in other MMOs.


One thing we know about SE's voice chat system: it will suck and people will hate it.

What a silly thing to request.

Oh ho ho ho.

It is funny because it is true.

[Sp1cyryan]

I wasn't being stupid with it. You were. The need for a chat app was created by SE. They put in an event that more or less requires voice chat into a game that does not support voice chat. You are lacking important mental faculties if you don't see the problem there.

If, only, could, read. Lack, minds eye,, make,, 2,, response.

From a customers standpoint hearing about another customers standpoint about a development standpoint. You should go pick up an application for the Dev team.

[Plasticleg]

Or you all could cry less and make effective chat macros to signify your party what is going on...

Shocker.

[FrankReynolds]

If, only, could, read. Lack, minds eye,, make,, 2,, response.

From a customers standpoint hearing about another customers standpoint about a development standpoint. You should go pick up an application for the Dev team.

If you don't like hearing other people's opinions about game development, go read a different forum / thread. This one is about... game development, specifically regarding NNI. This is the part where the conversation degrades to "Your Momma" jokes because you are outta stuff to say.


Or you all could cry less and make effective chat macros to signify your party what is going on...

Shocker.

LOL that's a good one. Care to share your super efficient macros mr. helpfulpants?

[Plasticleg]

LOL that's a good one. Care to share your super efficient macros mr. helpfulpants?

Sure.

"/p Found it! <t>" (this can be used for the lamp or specified mob/NM)
"/p Order"
"/p Code"
"/p Timed"
(for order, after order is given) "/p Lamp On" ~or~ "/p Lamp Off"
"/p Gather together, next floor Embrava/RegenV" (self explanitory, given your SCH's have half a brain + an alarm)
Typing "N,S,E,W" after saying the location of a code lamp, or a ToAU NM also helps.

You don't have to have an involved conversation to communicate.

[Sp1cyryan]

If you don't like hearing other people's opinions about game development, go read a different forum / thread.

Where did you get that from? I never said or insinuated that..


This one is about... game development, specifically regarding NNI.

Okay..?


This is the part where the conversation degrades to "Your Momma" jokes because you are outta stuff to say.

Says the guy who starts saying others lack the mental capacity to see things. When I stoop to your level and when you get to "yo mamma" jokes. Then we can talk about it.

[FrankReynolds]

Where did you get that from? I never said or insinuated that..

oh, I guess you were being serious when you said:

From a customers standpoint hearing about another customers standpoint about a development standpoint. You should go pick up an application for the Dev team.

And here I am thinking you were trying to tell me to shut up about game development. My bad. I'm glad you respect my opinion enough to suggest I apply for the team. That's very big of you.


Says the guy who starts saying others lack the mental capacity to see things. When I stoop to your level and when you get to "yo mamma" jokes. Then we can talk about it.

Says the guy who replied with:

Please don't be stupid with it.

When I took his broken logic and showed the flaws. Face it. Your arguing against something that would make the game better just to spite people who you deem lazier or less skilled than you. You would rather the game lack in features than let people who you see as unworthy have something they want. There is no reason why an official chat app can't be developed and used for more than just FFXI.

But that's beside the real point, which is that something that does not exist in the game should not be required in order to be good at the game. It's a fact that NNI is nigh impossible to win without a large number of things completely unrelated to your skill all coming together perfecftly.

NNI is basically a three hundred foot tall wall in the outfield with a few roided up d-bags who can hit one out telling the camera "It's not about taking performance enhancing drugs and having the catcher tell you what pitch is coming and using corked bats guys... these other guys just need to learn to swing smarterer..."


Sure.

"/p Found it! <t>" (this can be used for the lamp or specified mob/NM)
"/p Order"
"/p Code"
"/p Timed"
(for order, after order is given) "/p Lamp On" ~or~ "/p Lamp Off"
"/p Gather together, next floor Embrava/RegenV" (self explanitory, given your SCH's have half a brain + an alarm)
Typing "N,S,E,W" after saying the location of a code lamp, or a ToAU NM also helps.

You don't have to have an involved conversation to communicate.

I think we both know that none of those macros are going to make a party anywhere near as efficient as a group using skype.

There's no way around it man. Natural speech is far more efficient without even trying to rush it.

[Plasticleg]

There's no way around it man. Natural speech is far more efficient without even trying to rush it.

I'm not saying that it's better or as efficient. What I'm saying is that it 'can' be done.
We use the macro for one person, who unfortunately cannot join us on Skype.
And with your logic, wiki is for botters, pos-hackers, and people who run around at Mazurka speed. K.

[Sp1cyryan]

I'm glad you respect my opinion enough to suggest I apply for the team. That's very big of you.

I think a lot of people would see it all differently if they put themselves in the teams shoes. Which is exactly why I am against the idea, but yes sincerely I think you should apply to be a Dev.


When I took his broken logic and showed the flaws. Face it. Your arguing against something that would make the game better just to spite people who you deem lazier or less skilled than you. You would rather the game lack in features than let people who you see as unworthy have something they want. There is no reason why an official chat app can't be developed and used for more than just FFXI.

Here is what you are trying to peg me on. That I think there is a negative reason against some chat program being made for the game. I am not, and in fact it be to my benefit so I did not have to ask people to download something like Vent for events. It has nothing to do with arrogance, narcissism, or the sort.

I do not see them doing it because lets be honest. Are they really doing to spend the time trying to make a chat program that works between PS2 and Xbox users? On top of Xbox Live then factoring in and becoming a hassle. I just do not see it as a realistic goal because of all the details here and there. Now if it was just for PC users then sure it wouldn't be anything groundbreaking to have to develop, but SE won't do that because it creates offsets the "balance" of the platforms. We have heard their responses on matters enough to be able to generally anticipate if they would be willing to do things or not. Just like they will not expand the macro lines for the same rationale.

That is all excluding the effectiveness of choosing it over existing options too.

The logic here is not broken at all.


But that's beside the real point, which is that something that does not exist in the game should not be required in order to be good at the game.

It does not make you good. It just helps, and your request is like complaining that the batteries are not included for the toys, the additional parts are sold separately, and the HDMI wire does not come with the new TV. How many things in life do you come across a situation where you actually want/need to get items not included in a purchase?

A cookie jar does not come with cookies inside and you should not be surprised when you get home and your decade old cookie jar initially running on an even older table station 2 does not have the ability to chat with a PC, a PS3, and an Xbox living on its own island with its own chat system and a different set of rules. Frankly I was surprised I did not need a gold membership to play this on Xbox.

We get more bang for our buck if SE just works on content rather than making something which already exists for anyone who owns a PC.


NNI is basically a three hundred foot tall wall in the outfield with a few roided up d-bags who can hit one out telling the camera "It's not about taking performance enhancing drugs and having the catcher tell you what pitch is coming and using corked bats guys... these other guys just need to learn to swing smarterer...

I disagree.

The reality is that we are not in the MLB, but the Sandlot. When you have a group filled with a bunch of new kids on the block then you will just end up saying "you are killing me Smalls". When you have a team filled with Benny Rodriguez you will have a natural advantage over a team of Ham, Squints, and two twins who repeat themselves.

This is not about Bugs Bunny vs the Mon-Stars in a game of basketball as your odds. It is about going in with a good team for your best chance to beat the RNG. Nothing more and nothing less. Even cheaters lose here, but yes it does increase your odds.

There is no 300 foot wall, no team of roid filled players, and the only corked bats are the people who all have E/M/R weapons.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Put me on the list for wanting this event adjusted in the nearer future.

[MarkovChain]

Sure.

"/p Found it! <t>" (this can be used for the lamp or specified mob/NM)
"/p Order"
"/p Code"
"/p Timed"
(for order, after order is given) "/p Lamp On" ~or~ "/p Lamp Off"
"/p Gather together, next floor Embrava/RegenV" (self explanitory, given your SCH's have half a brain + an alarm)
Typing "N,S,E,W" after saying the location of a code lamp, or a ToAU NM also helps.

You don't have to have an involved conversation to communicate.

hye guys, I heard doing macros is a good way to communicate with people. The best macro in nyzul is hermes' sandals.

[Plasticleg]

hye guys, I heard doing macros is a good way to communicate with people. The best macro in nyzul is hermes' sandals.

Great for adding nothing pchan? Only a retard would enter NNI without hermes, powder boots, and sprinters.

edit: I remembered, it's pchan. lol.

[Waldrich]

All elite boys + their mules already have 15/15 Square Enix, time to give us something other than "Luck based events" or "time sink based events".

The real skill + gear + w/e event is Legion. which is almost unbeatable w/o a good zerg strategy for every chamber.

[wish12oz]

All elite boys + their mules already have 15/15 Square Enix, time to give us something other than "Luck based events" or "time sink based events".

The real skill + gear + w/e event is Legion. which is almost unbeatable w/o a good zerg strategy for every chamber.

Neo-Nyzul and Legion are both skill and gear dependent! One just requires less people with gear/skill.
afk GW2

[FrankReynolds]

I'm not saying that it's better or as efficient. What I'm saying is that it 'can' be done.
We use the macro for one person, who unfortunately cannot join us on Skype.
And with your logic, wiki is for botters, pos-hackers, and people who run around at Mazurka speed. K.

So everyone doesn't need chat apps, just 5/6 of the party. Well in that case, I say they revamp 5/6 of the event or build 5/6 of a chat app. That makes perfect sense.

[Vitus]

The design of NNI is meant to trickle out some fine pieces of equipments at extremely low rate. A PT without cheat would need all the stars aligned just to win. Anyone that claims they can win on a regular basis w/o cheat of any form is either: one, a lying fool with an inflated sense of superiority. Two, a stupid idiot doesn't even know his members are cheating when they zip through his face with 100%+ movement, or identify the objectives at 50yarms away in a walled-maze environment.

On a side note, for those people who still have the false impression that the Japanese don't cheat, I would like to let you know that they are not all that pretty like you think they are. If you have a capable brain and dwell enough time in its late modern history you will understand that Hitler is just a kitty compared to what the Japanese did to East Asia.

I'm pretty sure the Devs has statistical data on this. They probably look at the data and see a decent gear distribution rate (regardless of the way people acquired them) from this event and I don't think they will want to increase it any further, sadly.

[Afania]

Sure have played it. Been playing it fora long time. And I am one of many people who are getting fed up with this crap. Making any event single out jobs and restrict the rest is not good for business. I remember soloing Blm to 72 on Bst pets cause I could not get into any Aht Urgan parties cause they all did birds and birds reflected damage. Why should people be forced to play a certain job to do content they want to do to get w/e gear they want? What if I want to come on my Corsair? What if I want to come on my Blm? What if I hate Sch or Smn or the heavy DD that you require? Why should I have to play something I hate to get gear I want? It should be open for everyone to do without having to cheat or rely on Sch 2 hour and JA or Smn and their 2 hour JA. And content that makes it restrictive chases away people that are casual and reduces the number of people paying for the game. Oh and Plasticleg I like your quote, as it shows your ignorance to a very real problem. I, like many have lots of hours in this game and would like it to keep going and content like NNI is not helping it. That's my opinion. The only real solution is to reduce the overall difficulty (incoming hate I can feel it) and just say W/E to the 4 HDD and 2 Sch parties kicking it's teeth in like they do now anyway. This way everyone can do it (even pick up parties wooooooo) like they used to be able to in regular Nyzul Isle. So hate on me all you want but I love this game and do not want to see it go down the crapper cause of elitist attitudes leading the development team.

Everyone's favorite Abyssea doesn't let me play Corsair too because NIN WAR BLM/BRD BLU WHM MNK only.....until I need to brew something.

No game content in FFXI allow every job to fit in optimal setup, ever. Hey, Abyssea is easy, but as soon as you play jobs like Corsair, your farming efficiency decreased, like what happen when you use none-optimal job in NNI.


Btw, Corsair can beat NNI, ppl beat it on this job before with 20 floor jumps and no clipper. Of course it's not most optimal and win rate may decrease, just like how it's not optimal for Abyssea. That's why Abyssea is a poor arguement if you just want to play favorite job in NNI.

[wish12oz]

The design of NNI is meant to trickle out some fine pieces of equipments at extremely low rate. A PT without cheat would need all the stars aligned just to win. Anyone that claims they can win on a regular basis w/o cheat of any form is either: one, a lying fool with an inflated sense of superiority. Two, a stupid idiot doesn't even know his members are cheating when they zip through his face with 100%+ movement, or identify the objectives at 50yarms away in a walled-maze environment.

I posted 6 or 7 videos to my youtube account in about 2 weeks of me beating this event with my mule, without cheating. Wanna know how you can tell we didnt cheat? Cause no one was running fast and we didnt get a single order floor in any of them. I also live streamed all of them as I was doing it. Just because you're bad at the game doesn't mean other people are as well.

[Plasticleg]

I posted 6 or 7 videos to my youtube account in about 2 weeks of me beating this event with my mule, without cheating. Wanna know how you can tell we didnt cheat? Cause no one was running fast and we didnt get a single order floor in any of them. I also live streamed all of them as I was doing it. Just because you're bad at the game doesn't mean other people are as well.

From the mule's POV at the lamp. Not saying you clippered or anything, but it doesn't show that your group didn't.

Just stop. No one cares if you did or not.

[wish12oz]

From the mule's POV at the lamp. Not saying you clippered or anything, but it doesn't show that your group didn't.

Just stop. No one cares if you did or not.

I only sat at the lamp for 2 of the videos. Make more excuses.

Not only that but I uploaded a video of me on WAR winning nyzul as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbRjebM9rGk&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-tVT3u9tq8&feature=plcp

[Demon6324236]

Your condescending attitude about the subject is probably why few people care about your input on it, including myself.

[wish12oz]

I just get tired of bad players spamming threads like this saying its unwinnable unless you flee hack at 500% and use lamp order DATs.

[Demon6324236]

People who aren't bad, and see terrible amounts of luck based parts in an event, probably hate being called bad players too.

[Caketime]

I just get tired of bad players spamming threads like this saying its unwinnable unless you flee hack at 500% and use lamp order DATs.

Because anyone that has a problem with RNG dominated events is a bad player.

[wish12oz]

Because anyone that has a problem with RNG dominated events is a bad player.

If you cant win neo-nyzul at least 10% of the times you go into the event, youre in a bad group of bad players, and might be bad yourself.

Neo-nyzul is instant win, no progression required, RNG is just an excuse bad players use for why they cant win. Inside 2 weeks I acquired every piece of gear my mule needed from the event, with a lot of people who didnt have much/any experiance with the event. Within 2 months anyone could be 15/15 if theyre not bad. Compared to old FFXI, or even Abyssea stuff, this event is an amazing handout of awesome gear.

[Caketime]

Your enthusiasm for this event amazes me. Can I have some of what you're smoking?

[Afania]

Your enthusiasm for this event amazes me. Can I have some of what you're smoking?

So basically ppl that have cleared without clipper are not allow to express his/her opinion about this event isn't that bad?

SE forum rule No.1: If you're not here to complain about game content, you should gtfo cuz you're not allow to defend for game content or tell everyone how it is possible to win.

[Demon6324236]

So basically ppl that have cleared without clipper are not allow to express his/her opinion about this event isn't that bad?No, you are allowed to express your opinion, just not in a condescending & insulting attitude, such as telling people they are bad players because they disagree with an event they believe to be highly luck based. This is something that Wish seems to do any time someone says NNI is bad content, flaunting a high personal win rate followed by the insulting comment that is similar to...
If you cant win neo-nyzul at least 10% of the times you go into the event, youre in a bad group of bad players, and might be bad yourself.For me it has little to do with the fact people want to say the content isn't bad, Ill simply disagree with anyone who wants to say it does not have many parts of luck, mitigated with skill & proper communication, my problem is more so the underline tone of how its being said, and the remarks I see as insulting.

[Caketime]

So basically ppl that have cleared without clipper are not allow to express his/her opinion about this event isn't that bad?

SE forum rule No.1: If you're not here to complain about game content, you should gtfo cuz you're not allow to defend for game content or tell everyone how it is possible to win.

No, I never said anything like that. After all the forums are here for us to discuss the game and post our opinions, I was just stating that Wish has a huge amount of enthusiasm for NNI and has been defending it tooth and nail for 15 pages. To me that's like someone extolling the merits of a pile of hot garbage and arguing with anyone that disagrees, because they just don't know how awesome said garbage really is. Of course that's just my opinion, feel free to ignore me.

[Fupafighter]

The event is luck based. You will win, you will lose. If you have any sort of decent gear, like an OA2 DRK with 26% haste and even a shitty weaponskill set, you can win. Just learn the damn event and do it right. I know players 10x worse than me that cleared the content legit. The event is more about speed movement and communication, not OMG zerg everything. Little things like making your sch pull mobs to you, people not fighting together, having a designated lamp caller. They all help. Fulltime flee boots. Having flee available 100% of the time is a huge boost. Sadly the groups I go with don't even do that shit, and it shows. Stop blaming SE. The only thing that could be minor changed is order lamps. The rest is all failure on the playerbases part.

[Kincard]

Personally, while I do think that Neo-Nyzul is perfectly possible to beat as long as you put the effort in, I still think its a horribly designed event, when you consider things like Salvage at 75...at first people didn't have a clue how to beat it, then in a few months people were doing full clears of SSR 1-4+B with time to spare. That was people figuring out strategies and getting into the rhythm of the event, etc. Neo Nyzul has that to an extent, you can get good at it but even with that the random number generation can still bone you, and I think that's something worth complaining about. I just find it silly that one night my group can get 5 wins in a row and then the next week we get 0 (This actually happened, I'm not exaggerating :p). It's just a poorly thought-out event. The absolute worst criticism you can throw at Salvage was the cell drop rate in Arrapago, which still averaged out high enough for a well-oiled group to full clear the area every single time.

I think they should make order lamps not make you wait something like 20 seconds after a failure, and I think that fix alone will probably make it better (Such order lamp floors wouldn't be all that worse than gigantic clear all floors anyway). I really hope SE avoids this sort of design philosophy in the future though.

[wish12oz]

For me it has little to do with the fact people want to say the content isn't bad, Ill simply disagree with anyone who wants to say it does not have many parts of luck, mitigated with skill & proper communication, my problem is more so the underline tone of how its being said, and the remarks I see as insulting.

I only speak the truth in a blunt and easy to understand way. A 10% win rate requires your group to be able to clear 15-16 floors a run, if you can't do that, you are in a bad group, no question about it, there's nothing to argue. If you don't like my bluntness on the subject, you should just ignore my posts, but that won't change the fact that I'm right about this. You can't even argue against my stance that in comparison to old content or even abyssea, this event gives amazing rewards for time spent doing it, you just complain that I speak bluntly.

I don't expect most people to clear 20 floors on average like I did, 15-16 and having a 10% win rate is more than acceptable, and you'd get everything you need within 2 months. If all the complainers in this thread had been doing this event instead of complaining in this thread, you'd all be done by now. It's kind of sad the way I see it.

[Demon6324236]

Nothing to do with being blunt either, you have straight up told me I'm a bad player because I told my opinion that this event has way to many luck based things in it that are only mitigated by skill.
And Demon, youre just bad, I dont even care, suck less and you'll win, that simple.

[wish12oz]

Then stop being bad?
Game isn't hard.

That's also not why I said you're bad.

[Demon6324236]

Point is when talking about NNI you always come in & say you have a blah blah win rate, you have all you want for you & your mule, and people are bad players. This condescending attitude is what I have a problem with, you like NNI? Cool, I don't, many others don't, thats our view on it, I don't say that your just a cheating liar who wants to keep your NNI gear and want it as a gloating tool you can keep while others cant get it the same way because they fixed lamps. I simply tell you my opinion on the event, take it or leave it, doesn't give you a right or reason to be a douche about it.

[Luvbunny]

So after 16 pages, they still have not recover their ability to say something and pretty much ignoring people again as usual. Seems like this game is going back to their ancient ways of see no evil, hear no evil, the consumers do not exist and they are only paying monkeys with no opinion and no voice....

[Afania]

So after 16 pages, they still have not recover their ability to say something and pretty much ignoring people again as usual. Seems like this game is going back to their ancient ways of see no evil, hear no evil, the consumers do not exist and they are only paying monkeys with no opinion and no voice....

No content can please everyone, but I think SE official forum thread should not be an indication whether everyone is happy or mad about it. From what I've seen, majority of players(probably including myself, since I complained about things too) that come here mainly because they're unhappy about something in this game, while ppl happy with the content usually won't come here to say stuff. There are plenty of ppl I know have full set, didn't clipper, and told me that NNI is one of their fav event, some even kept doing it after 15/15.

Is NNI luck based? Yes, like old dyna/salvage/VW/limbus etc etc etc. But based on the fact that A LOT of player already has full set, it's certainly not unclearable, far from it. Of course nobody can force ppl to like the event. I don't like the event either, and pretty much just gtfo after I got what I want. Doesn't mean I think this event should hand out item faster than it is now.

[Demon6324236]

NNI is one of their fav event, some even kept doing it after 15/15.Not to sound rude/mean/offensive but... I don't believe that 1st part, and I have to assume the 2nd part is because they are helping people who need it still who are friends or LS members.

[Afania]

Not to sound rude/mean/offensive but... I don't believe that 1st part, and I have to assume the 2nd part is because they are helping people who need it still who are friends or LS members.


Just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. Some doesn't like VW zerg, doesn't like lv 75 solo content, and NNI was in right difficulty with mid-sized pt. 1st part is real. Like how I can tell ppl how I love VW all day while others hate it, or others tell me how love abyssea all day but I hate it as much as NNI.

2nd part is because they're helping yes, but if you hate it with a passion you wouldn't want to help either.


Nothing to do with being blunt either, you have straight up told me I'm a bad player because I told my opinion that this event has way to many luck based things in it that are only mitigated by skill.

I agree that Kaerin's attitude is pretty, err, notorious on forums and not everyone liked. But one thing I don't really understand. If player A call another player doing it wrong/gimp/bad, that player often have 3 different types of reaction. It's either
1: Acted up and call player A elitist 2: Defend for themselves, insisted they're not wrong or they have various reason to do it wrong. 3: Back off and tell everyone that they'd rather not do the event.

I know that probably not everyone is going to enjoy everything, nor I can change how ppl enjoy certain things. IMO however, if one player have problem to achieve their goal, wouldn't that player need a more positive attitude to solve the problem? If another pt has 18 floor jump avg(Note that I didn't use win rate here, only used jump, to emphasize on performance over luck), but my pt only have 15 jump avg, then what I should worry about, is to increase floor jump rather than being called doing it wrong or bad.

And I think that's where Kaerin is getting at. That majority of player, have no positive attitude, nor the will to find and solve the problem. And this is one problem I noticed on a lot of players in general. And it has nothing to do with gear/hardcore etc(this happens to players plays 24/7 also). If Ukon 90 WAR A parsed 7%, Ukon 90 WAR B parsed 15% in every fight, not just one. The obviously Ukon WAR A is doing it wrong. If Nyzul A pt has 18 jump avg, Nyzul B pt with same setup only has 15 jumps avg, then obviously Nyzul B pt is doing it wrong and should try to find ways to get more jumps. What I don't understand is, instead of trying to perform as well as others, many Nyzul B pt player come to the forum and complained, and tell everyone that they hate this event and not going to do it anymore.

Of course no event can please everyone. But personally if I see other ppl performing better than me, 1st thing I ask is if I do something wrong, and try to solve the problem in every way, before I worry about elitists call me bad. However, I rarely tell everyone I hate this and give up, or else I will never beat it and get item, and giving up is same thing as losing.

But now that majority of player got so acted up or instantly back off from event if I suggest them how to improve when they play their jobs, with no intention to solve the problem, even if I said in most polite manner I can think of. I don't get it. Isn't problem solving/positive attitude an important aspect irl when you work too? So how come once we log on to the game it's all gone? Inb4 game isn't life.

Majority of tips and tricks to win is being posted on the forums. And you need X setup+ cheating to win is just exaggeratting. A lot of Nyzul complain posts floating on the forum I actually posted several solution. Don't have 3rd pt tool? Powder bootsx7+ full time rotation and keep flee up full time. Don't have DRK WAR etc? Many other jobs such as NIN DNC COR BLU THF proved to able to clear. Nobody want to take your jobs? Make your own. Your pt really really REALLY can't do 16 floor jump? Do F80 25 times I guess. To be successful in this game, is nothing but problem solving(a skill you used a lot irl too), and find different ways to improve performance within your ability and resource. I don't deny that I can't solve every problem I encounter in game, but that's part of the spice of playing the game, it's a challenge, and if you can't face it with a more positive attitude while enjoying it, then what's the point to keep playing?

That's really what I see from Kaerin's post, besides the fact that not everyone enjoys NNI. NNI is one of my least fav event and I swear I hated it, but I never run away from it, and still managed to put together a group, farmed a lv 85 empy for my DD, and watched a tones of Video, spent tones of gil on powder boots just to beat it and get gear half an year ago. And this is not THAT undoable for majority of player IMO. Once upon a time my friend told me, "If you can't get something, that means you haven't tried hard enough". I always remind myself with what he said, for both in game and irl, whenever I set a goal that seemed impossible to reach.




I know next post someone will reply with "But I just don't enjoy the content, and I'm paying for this game so I should get content I enjoy". Ok move on.

[saevel]

Well they *fixed* Nyzule Isle.

Embrava is now 90s base for 3:45 total.

Requires 5 floor 80 wins to get a floor 100 item.

They want floor 100 to remain "lucky only".

So ... good luck...

[Thore]

They've certainly "fixed" NNI alright...

[Crimson_Slasher]

Here come the neo-nyzul bards.

[Caketime]

They've certainly "fixed" NNI alright...

Like swatting a fly with a shotgun blast.

[Luvbunny]

Here come the neo-nyzul bards.

Yup, indeed, until their next fix which will destroy soul voice and pretty much any good 2 hours ability worth their salts. It's the "let's destroy the game, drive the players insane so they quit the game altogether" new mantra. Weeks after weeks of shitty updates and worst balancing ever. You think that Tanaka was worst, seems like this new director is the spawn of Satan himself lol.

[wish12oz]

Maybe it's just me, but at first glance, the embrava nerf looks like it will make it harder for people to get the gear, even though they only need to get to 80 five times.

[MarkovChain]

shoudn't be a trouble with your awesome cheats.

[Demon6324236]

Could we please not start this stupid shit again? -_-

[Camiie]

Maybe it's just me, but at first glance, the embrava nerf looks like it will make it harder for people to get the gear, even though they only need to get to 80 five times.

Of course it will. That's what they want. In their eyes no one is supposed to be 15/15 or probably even 5/15 at this point. Just like a casino they don't want us walking away winners. That's bad for business.

[Caketime]

What confuses me is SE's insistence on grindfest themed gameplay. We've been here for 9 years more or less, having fun despite the grind. Is it impossible to hope for content that focuses on fun instead of gear hunting to get better gear, tags, and restrictions? I realize an incentive is what gets most people to do events even though they may not be so entertaining, but it's getting to the point where logging in and deciding what to do for the evening amounts to choosing events in order of how boring they are. I can't remember the last time I logged in and had fun doing an event, and while that may be a personal issue I don't know anyone ingame who ever comments on how fun that VW run was or how much fun they had farming Dyna or Sea, etc. My LS mates and I sit around and joke over beers with this game acting as an animated chatroom, stuff we do just runs together into a hot derpy mess.

I've wandered away from the point a bit, I and many others are going to continue to play this game until the servers shut down, so why does SE keep designing events focused so heavily around restrictions instead of fun? Currently the game is only fun when I'm drunk and relatively boring at any other time. :(

[Demon6324236]

^Words of truth. I have had a friend tell me 1 time a VW party was fun, and have had the same feeling myself, but it is rare, mostly only when one of us are on RDM or PLD then the party all dies & we somehow tank the NM for 2 minutes without dying or anyone healing us, so everyone can recover. Though I'm not sure if thats because its fun, or because your the job no one else plays or normally brings along but your showing off by saving everyones ass.

[Tigrress]

I just have to reply to this about being good vs bad group to win a certain percentage of the time. I have done NNI about 20 times now and of those 20 times I have never had less then 2 Lamp order floors, I have never recieved more then 5 floor skip, and every run either ws was locked at some point or ja were locked at some point. With random numbers you have the potential to have the greatest group in the whole damn game with the greatest players who ever existed and lose 100% of the time.

[detlef]

I have done NNI about 20 times now


I have never recieved more then 5 floor skip
This is impossible.

[saevel]

The floors jump amount seems very skewed, its definitely not an even distribution. What I've been noticing is that the floors under 50 tend to give you 2~4 floor jumps the vast majority of the time, it's only after 51 where the jumps seem to be bigger.

[Afania]

What confuses me is SE's insistence on grindfest themed gameplay. We've been here for 9 years more or less, having fun despite the grind. Is it impossible to hope for content that focuses on fun instead of gear hunting to get better gear, tags, and restrictions?

The fact is, if an event have no grind, and no "hunting to get better gear", then nobody will do it and it's fact. That's why you rarely see ppl do pvp(they still do, just SO RARE compare with other content) Garrison, eco warrior etc. It's not that SE "insist" to make content giving out better gear, just that majority of player would rather not spend time on it if it has no reward.

If they want to make ppl do a content for fun, but don't want to offer reward/better gear, the only possible way I can think of is to add competitive element, such as leaderboard, achievement point, PvP element and so on. But it seems that FFXI isn't leaderboard/achievement point/PvP centered MMO.

[saevel]

"Grinding" aka "Treasure Hunting" is common in my MMO's. In SE's cause is that they've yet to grasp what is enjoyable and what isn't. Everything running up to a spot then fighting the same boss NM twelve times and getting jack sh1t isn't fun. Even if the NM were to dispense goodies like a peeze it still wouldn't be fun. Now if they made a one to two hour dungeon where you cleared multiple levels while progressing through increasingly stronger boss NMs, then that is fun. Provided the boss NM's don't go all Kefka on you an "OMGWTFBBQ DIEDIEDIE!!!!", then it's just cheap on the developers part.

Also then NEED to stop putting all the goodies at the very end, it should be graduated progression with goodies dropped with each stage. Not a sh!t ton of crap then a few decent drops from the very end boss.

[Caketime]

The fact is, if an event have no grind, and no "hunting to get better gear", then nobody will do it and it's fact. That's why you rarely see ppl do pvp(they still do, just SO RARE compare with other content) Garrison, eco warrior etc. It's not that SE "insist" to make content giving out better gear, just that majority of player would rather not spend time on it if it has no reward.

If they want to make ppl do a content for fun, but don't want to offer reward/better gear, the only possible way I can think of is to add competitive element, such as leaderboard, achievement point, PvP element and so on. But it seems that FFXI isn't leaderboard/achievement point/PvP centered MMO.

Can't help but notice the events you listed are incredibly boring. I realize there's a formula at work here, where we do events for gear and shinies, but we only do those events for the shinies and not because the event is fun.

[FrankReynolds]

Can't help but notice the events you listed are incredibly boring. I realize there's a formula at work here, where we do events for gear and shinies, but we only do those events for the shinies and not because the event is fun.

Off Topic: I'm of the opinion that they should offer non stat related customization as a reward more often. They should add things like warp points that can only be gotten by beating certain tiers of content a certain number of times, or enhancements that turn that butt ugly gear into "super fly, I'm the bestest of the bestest and you can tell just by looking at my gear" type gear. Instead of having events where you have a 1/10 chance of getting an item that's worth 1,000,000 gil, they could just make the event drop 100k every time (These numbers are of course just an example, as every event would be different).

There should be bonuses for helping people out with events too. Ie. If you beat an event with a bunch of people who have done it a million times before then you get regular rewards, but if you beat it with a bunch of people who haven't cleared it before, then you get bonus drops / points / whatever.

All I'm saying is that if they just got a little creative, they could make things a lot better. I'm mean, they were sort of onto something with evoliths, but the gear sucked and it was too random. If they added that sort of customization to currently existing gear and made it so that you could do it by trading points from different events to an NPC for different pieces, it would probably be popular.

TLDR; They should make more rewards that aren't stat related, but are worth chasing regardless. That way they can spend less time trying to make events that are hard enough to be fun for "mr. I have every relic / empy on the planet and my whole LS does too", but easy enough that "joey the pink ninja" can beat it once in a while too.

[Tigrress]

This is impossible.

Shame its what has happened.

[detlef]

So you're saying you have done Nyzul 20 times and never received a jump over 5 floors? That really is statistically impossible. What's the point of even making this claim?

[Demon6324236]

Its not statistically impossible, I mean realistically I could roll a die 1,000,000 times and it come up 1 each and every time, its just very, very, very unlikely. This is much the same, unless the game forces you to get a higher jump if you get alot of shitty jumps, which it doesn't.

[wish12oz]

So you're saying you have done Nyzul 20 times and never received a jump over 5 floors? That really is statistically impossible. What's the point of even making this claim?

He probably only cleared 2-3 floors each run, lol. That's the only way it's possible.

[Afania]

Can't help but notice the events you listed are incredibly boring. I realize there's a formula at work here, where we do events for gear and shinies, but we only do those events for the shinies and not because the event is fun.

If everything is boring to you, including PvP, then I really can't think of much else that you find fun, prehaps you can try another game. Although personally I haven't play a single MMO that doesn't get incredibly boring after you spend 200+ hours into the game. I quit WoW/warhammer/FFXIV after a few days of playing, only SWTOR still struggling because of the story(but planning to quit after I finish story), cuz most of them just using same game mechanic over and over.

Yes we do event for shinies, that's just the way it goes in MMO, that after 1st time you do something, 2nd time it got incredibly boring. If it doesn't offer reward, no matter how fun it is nobody will be interested in doing it for 2nd time. And the main goal of MMO is to keep players playing.

The only way is probably a well made, balanced PvP system, so those players stick around and improve their skill to get better result. Like how players play Starcraft, or Street fighter4 over and over, to practice and get better at it.

Other then that, there aren't many game mechanic that's "incredibly fun". Most likely it'd just be kill this, kill that. Dodge attack, guard boss attack, dodge trap, select right skill rotation, kill epic boss and so on, like every other MMO out there.



Off Topic: I'm of the opinion that they should offer non stat related customization as a reward more often. They should add things like warp points that can only be gotten by beating certain tiers of content a certain number of times, or enhancements that turn that butt ugly gear into "super fly, I'm the bestest of the bestest and you can tell just by looking at my gear" type gear. Instead of having events where you have a 1/10 chance of getting an item that's worth 1,000,000 gil, they could just make the event drop 100k every time (These numbers are of course just an example, as every event would be different).


No, it won't work for the person you replied :p His problem is that no matter what he does, he found it incredibly boring, and he'd rather do something with no reward but something fun. Personally besides PvP, or some sort of archievement system, I couldn't think of any game mechanic that can keep players play for years and always find it entertaining, without offering shinies/reward.

[Caketime]

If everything is boring to you, including PvP, then I really can't think of much else that you find fun, prehaps you can try another game. Although personally I haven't play a single MMO that doesn't get incredibly boring after you spend 200+ hours into the game. I quit WoW/warhammer/FFXIV after a few days of playing, only SWTOR still struggling because of the story(but planning to quit after I finish story), cuz most of them just using same game mechanic over and over.

Incorrect. I enjoy Campaigns, Besieged and the occasional Brenner match. Limbus is mildly entertaining, occasionally awesome if we pick the harder version, and I have fun being a jerk in Dyna here and there. Einherjar is another rather fun event that I enjoy with my LS though I haven't been going much lately. I like "Kill all of the things!" events as well as pieces of content that I can either solo or duo to pass time and earn merits or whatever I happen to be busying myself with at the time. Assault is pretty fun too when I can get more than one other person willing to go.

Frank brings up an interesting idea, I would also like to see some form of non-stat related customization. Mostly because I want to annoy the crap out of everyone around me by coloring all of my armor bright pink.

[Afania]

Incorrect. I enjoy Campaigns, Besieged and the occasional Brenner match. Limbus is mildly entertaining, occasionally awesome if we pick the harder version, and I have fun being a jerk in Dyna here and there. Einherjar is another rather fun event that I enjoy with my LS though I haven't been going much lately. I like "Kill all of the things!" events as well as pieces of content that I can either solo or duo to pass time and earn merits or whatever I happen to be busying myself with at the time. Assault is pretty fun too when I can get more than one other person willing to go.


1. Campaign isn't much more fun than every other event. You just kill mobs without much strategy too.
2. Besieged is lag feast
3. Brenner is PvP which I mentioned.
4. Ein/limbus is do it for shinies event.

Honestly your comment confused me, first you complained events are boring and ppl only do for shines, then you listed a bunch of events you had fun and ppl did for shines too. So what exactly do you want? An event that's fun but doesn't offer shines? What exactly do you want that you think it's fun? If you like kill all, pretty much everything in XI is kill all.

There really isn't anything wrong with event offering shines. It provides incentive to do more than once and keep players around. I don't see a point to take the reward away from event, it will just make the event utterly pointless to do and that's it. However, having shines doesn't stop the players from doing it for fun.

[Demon6324236]

Its good to offer items, its good to offer fun, its great to have both in one. The problem is most of the time they don't go together. VW, good gear, no fun because its more annoying and aggravating than anything. PvP is fun, but no rewards for doing it.

[Kitkat]

Personally, when the group did as they were expected (us meds, split on kill all floors etc) the event was fun regardless of if we ultimately won, or didn't win in my experience. It was when the lack of using meds, or people not following directions that made it seem aggravating cause the event was so time sensitive on top of luck dependent. Sadly a big portion of getting through things fast was tied to Embrava up to this point. I hope that with the change to the spell and what little they are actually adjusting ontop of that for NNI, they will notice the difficulty and adjust it a bit more.

Without the changes to Embrava, I'm fairly certain that the original make up of people I did this with would probably had greater than 50% success rate on hitting fl100 especially when considering lamp floors had more down time than needed just waiting for them to reset in some cases. With the Embrava changes, I would rather see them limit the number of times you can land on a lamp floor each run to 4 times.

[Caketime]

1. Campaign isn't much more fun than every other event. You just kill mobs without much strategy too.
2. Besieged is lag feast
3. Brenner is PvP which I mentioned.
4. Ein/limbus is do it for shinies event.

I have my opinion about the events currently available, and you have yours. Can't we just leave it at that?


Honestly your comment confused me, first you complained events are boring and ppl only do for shines, then you listed a bunch of events you had fun and ppl did for shines too. So what exactly do you want? An event that's fun but doesn't offer shines? What exactly do you want that you think it's fun? If you like kill all, pretty much everything in XI is kill all.

I want the game to be fun again. I can make my own fun with LS buddies while we do events, but most events aren't tailored to being fun, they have a list of objectives and how we choose to accomplish those objectives may or may not produce a fun experience. For example, when fighting anything other than Odin in Einherjar we just run straight at it and hack and slash our way to victory. But if our DDs do it while wearing "the outfit" we have a bit more fun, and there are unshaven Elvaan and Galka legs exposed everywhere. I feel sorry for our Taru friends at these events.


There really isn't anything wrong with event offering shines. It provides incentive to do more than once and keep players around. I don't see a point to take the reward away from event, it will just make the event utterly pointless to do and that's it. However, having shines doesn't stop the players from doing it for fun.

I never said there was anything wrong with rewards for events, I just commented on the fact that most of these events are just a means to an end, and are designed for maximum grinding rather than being entertaining. The only fun happens when we make it happen. But I don't think it has to be that way.

[Camiie]

So what exactly do you want? An event that's fun but doesn't offer shines? What exactly do you want that you think it's fun? If you like kill all, pretty much everything in XI is kill all.


Any event in a MMORPG that doesn't offer both fun and advancement at the same time, is a failure. Yes, I understand the implications of what I'm saying. There's a lot of failure in this game and many others.

[Detzu]

Random thoughts I want to reply to since I last looked at this thread like 3 days ago:

Playing a melee job is not all that hard. You engage things, you use abilities once in awhile, and you WS when you have 100 TP. Simple as that.

The skill part of these jobs comes in knowing what gear to get and use for what enemies, WSing right before or right when you get 100 TP, knowing when it is most effective to use your abilities, learning how to acquire the gear you need, actually acquiring it, etc. For Nyzul specifically, macroing on/off run fast shoes to do your best to remove engage/disengage position lock is a pretty skill based thing to do, knowing when the flan NM suddenly gets healed when you hit it with your stick so you don't suddenly fill it back up to 100%, having good memory so you know which ways you have run already, which ways other players have run already, where other players are when they say things like "I found it," and knowing to not follow the other person when there are two ways you could go.

SAM is good in Neo Nyzul? Since when?
WAR MNK and BLU are the best melees for Neo Nyzul, and I will explain why.

WAR because it has a huge single target WS (Ukkos Fury), a big damage AOE WS (Fell Cleave) and Tomahawk for annoying mobs that take reduced damage, like some of the flan NMs, slimes, skeletons, etc, that you constantly fight all the time. It also has cheap/easy to acquire run fast shoes (Hermes Sandels) from the AH.

BLU for the same reasons as WAR, big damage single target WS/spells, AOE spells, decently easy to acquire run speed (Crimson pants, but these are harder than Hermes) plus it gets stuns, and can do magic damage to stuff to avoid slashing damage penalties or take advantage of stuff that takes extra magic damage or no physical damage.

MNK is worse off than the previous two, but it can use Formless Strikes to fight the flan NM when it goes into "physical damage heals me mode," or to beat on things like slimes. It also has Hermes Sandels. And its not like the stuff in Neo Nyzul is hard at all, so it doesn't take much of a hit from being a 1 handed weapon job.

SAM DRK DRG do not have this one advantage MNK has over them, so they are all inferior compared to it. And 1 handed melees are generally just bad compared to 2 handed in any event where you basically sit at capped haste all the time, since their Dual Wild suffers tremendously, their WS's are all inferior damage comparatively and their overall DoT is just much lower, and thats the only thing the remaining jobs have going for them.

Sorry for the mega delay, but do you know drk have twilight scythe and with apoc can almost solo a complete floor of NMs?

[Metaking]

hmmm well if you were to have to chose from a war with all tricks and gear vrs a drk nni would heavily favor the drk i mean tomahawk is nice but its only a 25-30% Sdt drop, and most of the in jobs for nni have better ways to get around pdt blus of course are going to req it(nasty attack penalty but alittle def down makes it barely noticeable) mnks formless (tho they take a 40% to 5% dmg penalty for it) as dutz said drk has twilight which ignores -Sdt and i think -dt as well. A drk with relic scythe has alot more serviablity than a war, thax to an hp draining weponskill, and tho ukon is a beast of a weapons skill Gs merit weapon-skill can go toe to toe with it, and drk using there tricks can make it come out on top.

this part is just my opinion, but after embrava loses its balls blu mnk drk nin(maybe) and dnc will be the go to jobs for dd slots in nni(tho this is assuming emp harp brd take over at least 1 of the schs slots)

[Peldin]

agreed with everything up until you mentioned nin as a top dd slot