Please fix Excalibur + enlight

[Oakrest]

I have recently obtained Excalibur, and am disapointed to find out that enlight will not let the "additional damage" proc from the relic modifier. Is this intentional? From my Google-translation of this JP thread [link] (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/22080-%E3%82%A8%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B9%E3%82%AB%E3%83%AA%E3%83%90%E3%83%BC%E3%81%AE%E8%BF%BD%E5%8A%A0%E5%8A%B9%E6%9E%9C%E3%83%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%82%92%E3%80%81%E5%84%AA%E5%85%88%E5%BA%A6%E3%82%92%E9%AB%98%E3%81%8F%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E3%81%BB%E3%81%97%E3%81%84?p=362772#post362772) it seems many others are also not happy with this.

I still love the sword, but it seems Excalibur and en"light" should go along together and no have to compete.. at least let me know if this is a bug or intention - thanks!

[Nawesemo]

I approve of this message wholeheartedly.

[Martel]

Seconded. And I don't even have an Excalibur. <,<

[Nawesemo]

zomg!!! YOU don't have an Excalibur!!? O.O































































































I'm just f'in with you.... neither do I.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

It's the way enspells are done unfortunately, it'd probably just be better in the long run to make most additional effects stack with enspells..

[hiko]

just switch add effect priority (weapons' add > enspell)! you wont get both proc on a single hit but enspell wont bloc other proc anymore

[Daniel_Hatcher]

just switch add effect priority (weapons' add > enspell)! you wont get both proc on a single hit but enspell wont bloc other proc anymore

Except enspells can be stronger than quite a few other weapons additional effects, Enspells II were added for this kind of thing, only Enlight activates on all hits so it's irrelevant for PLD.

Seriously, very few weapons bar for example this Relic would exactly be strong by allowing them to stack.

[SpankWustler]

I don't imagine this is intentional so much as the result of years of forced-to-be-console-friendly code piling onto itself like the fat of an 800 pound man layering up just so and crushing the breath from him while he sleeps.

I suspect Tier II en-spells were a Development Bro's attempt to work around the mutual exclusivity of additional effects, so in addition to being horrible themselves, they can be considered an ill-omen.

[Martel]

It'd also be pretty nice if I could use Sagasinger's Buff drain without canceling enlight.

[Okipuit]

I still love the sword, but it seems Excalibur and en"light" should go along together and no have to compete.. at least let me know if this is a bug or intention - thanks!

Greetings,

Correct, this is intentional. As some of you may already know, added effects from weapons cannot stack, thus unfortunately the added effect from Excalibur cannot be used in conjunction with Enlight.

Also, it is not possible to make it so the effect from Enlight activates when the added effect from Excalibur does not. Likewise, changing the priority so that Excalibur's added effect is higher than Enlight would require a complete reworking of the weapon as well as limit the use of Enlight, which is not a realistic approach to this.

With that said, we will be keeping priority on Enlight and would like players to choose which effect they want to use by removing the Enlight effect for the times they prefer having Excalibur's added effect.

[Dekar]

Greetings,

Correct, this is intentional. As some of you may already know, added effects from weapons cannot stack, thus unfortunately the added effect from Excalibur cannot be used in conjunction with Enlight.

Also, it is not possible to make it so the effect from Enlight activates when the added effect from Excalibur does not. Likewise, changing the priority so that Excalibur's added effect is higher than Enlight would require a complete reworking of the weapon as well as limit the use of Enlight, which is not a realistic approach to this.

With that said, we will be keeping priority on Enlight and would like players to choose which effect they want to use by removing the Enlight effect for the times they prefer having Excalibur's added effect.

This is absolutely terrible. How would making the additional effect of Excalibur overwrite Enlight hurt Enlight (or any En-spell for that matter)? This dev response is terrible and desperately needs to be reconsidered.

[Martel]

The way that's phrased makes it sound kinda like raising Excalibur's proc priority would prevent enlight from activating even on hits where Excalibur's didn't proc. Which would kinda defeat the purpose.

[Karbuncle]

I'm actually confused as to how this would be impossible.

I know, Or believe by a good margin, That some Additional Effects on weapons (One Example, The only i can think of... the MP Drain Staff from Buburimbu Brown Box) can overwrite Samba Effects. SO if Additional Effects can overwrite Samba... How come This Additional Effect can't overwrite Enspell... I mean, I suppose i can see some reasoning as they may in fact work different, One a JA, one a Spell, But in essence its the same idea, An En-Effect, and a Weapon Effect.

To the above, When i first got the staff in question, I had Drain Samba, and the MP Drain effect on it would still kick in now and again. So unintentionally or not, Effects from Weapons have the power to overwrite those from JA's...

Again, I suppose EnSpells(Magical) Work differently than Samba's, Since i think Samba's are a debuff on the enemy technically.

Oh well, Sorry to hear this will stay this way, Don't personally have an Excalibur but agree this is pretty disappointing for you.

[Babekeke]

I can confirm that Vampyric claws also over-writes sambas, and so did sirocco kukri.

This dev response is BS. I'm annoyed and I don't even have Excalibur, nor will I ever get it lol.

[Zirael]

I believe Endark and Blood Weapon have the same compatibility issues.
This reply is very disappointing and not an attitude I'd expect from a Game Developer. Essentially it translates into "we would have to put in some work into fixing this, but can't be bothered, so deal with it". This one can't be coated with "PS2 limitations" and the implied "it's working as intended" must be confusing for any person able to perform basic mental reasoning, so the after-taste it leaves me with is pretty bitter.
I'd expect more from a Developer of the game I play and pay for.

[Juilan]

Solution : Excalibur PLD get the price to purchase Enlight from that NPC in Al Zahbi from the dev time, because really during the duration of enlight I'm doing either slightly less or vastly less damage with Enlight compared to my enslashing!

[Nala]

Glad to see there has been little reform in the dev team's evaluation of our understanding of the game.

Thanks for sucking yet again guys.

[uptempo]

Pathetic really, it needs sorting out and it's just lazyness on se behalf not to do it. I'd also love to know who the 3 fools were who liked the dev post. Muppets.

[Cabalabob]

That is kind of BS answer, it's not even an unreasonable request, I could understand if we were talking about making them both proc at the same time, but this is simply asking for the better effect to proc when it would actually proc instead of enlight.

I see no reason why doing this would mean enlight must be gimped. If Excalibur was a 100% activation then there'd be no issue, but it's not and it should be able to proc over a weaker effect.

[SpankWustler]

Greetings,

Correct, this is intentional. As some of you may already know, added effects from weapons cannot stack, thus unfortunately the added effect from Excalibur cannot be used in conjunction with Enlight.

Also, it is not possible to make it so the effect from Enlight activates when the added effect from Excalibur does not. Likewise, changing the priority so that Excalibur's added effect is higher than Enlight would require a complete reworking of the weapon as well as limit the use of Enlight, which is not a realistic approach to this.

With that said, we will be keeping priority on Enlight and would like players to choose which effect they want to use by removing the Enlight effect for the times they prefer having Excalibur's added effect.

I think the word "intentional" here is just going to make people mad. Yeah, the code for En-Light is working as correctly as the code of FFXI ever does, but is this outcome really what anyone wants? Did a Developer ever set this outcome as a goal, rather than an unavoidable result of how wonky additional effects are within FFXI?

I hope not, because this outcome sucks.

That said, I can understand why this isn't being adjusted if it would require a large time investment. Compared to other things that might require digging deep in the spaghetti code and fighting the Flying Spaghetti Code Monster who lives there, such as increasing maximum inventory space or adding entirely new mechanics, the gains from modernizing the functionality of additional effects seem minimal.

[Rezeak]

I pretty much agree with the other posters here.

If a dev can read this i guess the real point is this.

If the addtional effect proced over Enlight it wouldn't cause any problems as far as i can see.

But the fact PLDs need enlight for the +30-60 acc boost alone means it takes away a large part of what the point of the relic is.

Either way you fixed alot of the DD relic to restore them to what they previously were why can't you do this for excalibur since it lost it's place when you added Enlight and Emperyans ??

[Ophannus]

I think this is intentional to prevent other shenanigans from other jobs like KC+BW+Enfire+Haste Samba or what have you.

[Karbuncle]

mmm, The question is not allowing 2 or more Enspells at the same time, Its allowing The more powerful one to Proc on the occasion it would normally do so.

[ManaKing]

It's a 1H weapon. There is no possibility that you could be worrying about game balance with any 1H weapon. It's just laziness.

Making additional affects proc with more generous priority was something you could easily do to appease an under-powered portion of your player base. Instead you continue to treat your RDMs and PLDs like shit. Congratulations. You have a semi-hardcore fan base. It doesn't make you less of assholes.

SARCASM!!!:
You should buff Ragnarok more, because that's the bees knees these days, and everyone in PJ looking the same is the coolest thing ever. Remove all the incentive to play with diversity.

[Mirage]

Also, it is not possible to make it so the effect from Enlight activates when the added effect from Excalibur does not. Likewise, changing the priority so that Excalibur's added effect is higher than Enlight would require a complete reworking of the weapon as well as limit the use of Enlight, which is not a realistic approach to this.

In that case, I think you should seriously consider reworking the weapon or spell. It is a relic weapon we're talking about here, remember. They are special enough to deserve some extra development time to function well with the other effects in the game.

If it was a random mid-level weapon that didn't function properly, I'd be fine with such a reply, but this is a weapon that costs several hundred million gil.

And I don't even have an Excal, or plan on getting one.

As a workaround, can't you just change enlight to have excalibur's effect as part of the spell enhancement, and make it so it only procs if you are wielding an excalibur in your main hand?

Something like
Calculate enspell damage normally
Perform check: Is mainhand = excalibur?
If yes, apply Enlight effect, make X% of the enlight effects deal slashing damage equal to what Excalibur's effect would have dealt
If no, apply enlight effect as normal.

[Oakrest]

we would like players to choose which effect they want to use by removing the Enlight effect for the times they prefer having Excalibur's added effect.

That's really disappointing to know that my Almace embraces Enlight more than my Excalibur.

That said, turning off enlight (not casting it) is exactly what I've been doing - because even if rare, it seems the chance at the 25% of hp slashing damage is more damage than letting Enlight run. I guess what's most discouraging about this is that I had to find it out after I got my Excalibur (from realizing it wasn't procing with enlight active, I stumbled upon the JP thread linked in my OP). I had calculated the added damage and ACC from enlight as part of my reasoning to upgrade from Almace to Excalibur, but with this new knowledge it does feel like a bit of a side-grade.

Moreover, I'm a bit disappointed with the response: not because it isn't what I wanted to hear, but because it seems so contradictory. On one hand you're saying "this is intentional" which suggests it was by design, but on another hand you're saying, "changing the priority so that Excalibur's added effect is higher than Enlight would require a complete reworking of the weapon as well as limit the use of Enlight, which is not a realistic approach to this" which suggests it's a lot of work to change - but why even consider that if it's intentional? The rational seems a bit ... odd.

Perhaps the dev's should revisit Excalibur and look at injecting some of the benefits of enlight onto the weapon itself? Also, consider making the 25%hp additional effect generate enmity which it currently does not.

Please find this feedback with good intentions, thanks!

[Babekeke]

A friend is making this weapon now, so I'd like to confirm, is it just the add. effect damage varies with HP effect, or the hidden effect 2.5 damage, or both that are overwritten by enspells?

[Zagen]

A friend is making this weapon now, so I'd like to confirm, is it just the add. effect damage varies with HP effect, or the hidden effect 2.5 damage, or both that are overwritten by enspells?
The damage varies with HP effect.

[fernando]

Pld are used to getting the raw end, no matter what we say...Started with WoTg!!!IMO.

[Himrik]

One a JA, one a Spell, But in essence its the same idea, An En-Effect, and a Weapon Effect.

I tried the Grotesque Cesti (100% HP drain add effect). I already knew that it overwrites Drain Samba, so I try with an En-spell on. And the En-spell completely overwrites the HP drain effect.

So yes, JA and spells don't work the same way :(

[ManaKing]

Enspells will override any additional affect from equipment. Auspice is the only thing that will override Enspells.

[Volta]

I think the word "intentional" here is just going to make people mad. "

umm.... the OP did ask specifically if this was their "intention"?

I don't understand why people that play this game, can't seem to get around the idea of the devs making or designing a weapon/armor with a specific trait or ability that is individual to that 1 piece of gear and that alone? It was answered that it was indeed an intentional effect and it really should just be dropped at that. Essentially that means that the issue that you are having with that sword is ultimately your problem and not an issue with the sword itself. Sure it sucks that the sword you worked hard for isn't working the way you thought it would, but it's what the devs created, and is working how it was intended to. You mad bro?

[Oakrest]

umm.... the OP did ask specifically if this was their "intention"?

I don't understand why people that play this game, can't seem to get around the idea of the devs making or designing a weapon/armor with a specific trait or ability that is individual to that 1 piece of gear and that alone?

"Intention" (in this case) is synonymous with design. My original post was really trying to understand if the behavior was by design or if it was a bug in the code. Anyone whose played XI for any reasonable amount of time knows there are lots of bugs. Step one on my Excalibur campaign was clarification.



It was answered that it was indeed an intentional effect and it really should just be dropped at that.

I have two problems with that remark. First, they didn't answer that, at least not clearly. They started to rationalize that making it work the way I (and the JP) described would be too difficult and not practical: "a complete reworking of the weapon as well as limit the use of Enlight, which is not a realistic approach to this". This tells me it was design by requirement, not by intent. At some point in history, some SE dev probably told his boss, 'Uh hey, we have a problem here, Enlight won't work with Excalibur's proc', and then the boss says, 'no problem, we'll just proceed as if that was our plan'. Taking the easy route can be bad game design. Generally, that's bad design period. Sometimes this works but it usually makes for a weaker end result, a compromise. It's a bit like road hockey: suggesting you intentionally wanted to play out on the street in the middle of traffic is a farce - it's simply a compromise to get closer to the sport that's played on ice. In this analogy I'm not suggesting people don't want to play road hockey, I'm just alluding to the fact that the 'ice hockey' was the original true design, the other was a compromise.

In fairness to SE, they have to make some compromises or else the game would never have been finished. I realize this, but perhaps I'm a bit more bitter after my FFXIV experience.

My second issue is that we should not just 'leave it at that'. That's why this community exists, does it not? To question and to offer feedback and suggestions for improvement? My goal is to make a funner game. Improving Excalibur's process is one granular step towards that.


You mad bro?

If you're asking me, yes probably a little. Disappointed is probably a better word though. Are you happy?

[Volta]

I understand what you are saying. But from what I got from the dev is that it was meant like this? Perhaps I read this wrong?

Also I am in full agreement with you as to why this forum exists, to give feedback or suggestions. I'm so used to it as XIV is my main MMO, (which for the record they fixed most of the issues with and are launching next month with XIV ARR beta mid Feb) and I'm much more used to complaints, suggestions, feedback...its more active than the xi forums for sure.

Don't take what I said the wrong way, as stated above, perhaps I read it the wrong way, but from what it sounded like...this was intentional. Honestly if I worked for a relic in XIV (which is a MASSIVE feat to obtain one, moreso than an AF+2/3 in XI) I'd be mad if it didn't function the way I thought it would.....or if I got a response as you implied wasn't really enough to justify why they couldn't fix it. My post was really made out of anger of the way the dev was being talked about and about some of the comments made towards SE because of this (honestly minor) issue. The devs work really hard, and I'm sure they are very busy readying the new stuffs for the planned expansion and also any updates in between then and now. Good luck for a hotfix for this dear sir.

[Volta]

On a side note, wtf does my main say sam? weird.

[Ophannus]

Enspells will override any additional affect from equipment. Auspice is the only thing that will override Enspells.

And treasure hunter

[ManaKing]

Necro Bump for continued disapproval.

[Oakrest]

Now that I'm exploring Adoulin a bit, the lack of Enlight available to Excalibur is increasingly becoming a point of contention for me. Accuracy becomes even more important in SoA with the higher level monsters and so not having Enlight on full time is adverse. Excal's value is diminished substantially in SoA. Please fix Excalibur +enlight! I.e Add some Acc full time to Excalibur if we can't use enlight with it!

[Aldaris]

All you have to do to get the devs to do what u want is boycott...get everyone to stop paying thier bills for a month or two...then u will see them give u whatever u want

[Oakrest]

Very pleased this was seemingly fixed in the last update. I actually haven't tested yet since my 95 Excalibur has been easily replaced by a ilvl 117 RoE sword which I use in place of it :( But all-in-all, it was a pleasant surprise to see SE do something about this.