question for GM's

[Secondplanet]

http://i50.tinypic.com/2rfbu47.jpg

This is what annoys me greatly, GM's chase people for stupid reasons at times but when this happens they don't even bat an eyelid..

So SE... care to explain?

[Demon6324236]

Well obviously~ 6 people who all look alike met up and thought they should go send things to people while naked in Port Jeuno, what could they possibly be doing to draw a GM's attention? :O

[Secondplanet]

just like i can't wait for my next [BR0SALE].C0M /tell that SE keeps saying they will handle and 10mins later i get more.

[nyheen]

LOL that a army of RMTs

[Kaisha]

RMT investigations are STF territory, not GMs.

You can send reports to the crew via this form at the bottom - http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=20&la=1

[Secondplanet]

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

And OMG they're still running around O.o

Gasp that got taken care of......

[Mifaco]

Incoming Chocobo Blinkers nerf

[Kaisha]

Incoming Chocobo Blinkers nerf
Blinkers are an easy source of taking out RMT, and focuses them in on a single method of obtaining gil, and it's been in abuse for awhile if the billions of gil being frozen are a sign of things - http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/rule/specialtask.html

Shame they haven't added last month's results to the list yet.

What they really need to do is something about the non-stop RMT FellCleave shouts 24/7.

[Demon6324236]

Depends on if they can tell whos a FC and whos not. I myself have made money from FCs from time to time, if I were banned because they thought I was a RMT I would quit this game and never look back.

[Sarick]

Depends on if they can tell whos a FC and whos not. I myself have made money from FCs from time to time, if I were banned because they thought I was a RMT I would quit this game and never look back.

Technically everyone is an RMT, we pay money for a subscription and/or buy the client software just for special in game items sometimes. It all depends on how you define the way money is traded.:rolleyes:

[Nawesemo]

I look at em this way, .....did they steal my mob? Are they farming on mobs that i want? Are they making my sales on the a.h. decline? Are they being overly annoying with their shouts? If the answer is no to all of them, and they're litterally not bringing my experience way down..... They're a lot like homeless people, eyesores, but I'm not going out of my way to notice them...... They content being what they are so be it. But they hit me with the tells, steal my mobs, or are generally being dicks when they're cleaving a zone, yeah, I tend to snitch em off to buffer and harder linkshell mates who enjoy competing with them for xyz..... They prey on us, Anji pretax on them, its a vicious cycle.

It's the botters that irritate me to no end.

[Mirage]

They are decreasing your experience, though. Making money out of nothing (blinkers, lol) creates inflation, which basically makes all your gil decrease in value. For every gil RMTs generate, your gil is worth less.

Of course, legit players generate gil out of nothing too, but with rmts, it happens faster, which leads to inflation increasing faster, which leads to your gil devaluing faster.

[Sarick]

RMT investigations are STF territory, not GMs.

You can send reports to the crew via this form at the bottom - http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=20&la=1

The Lead and Senior GM's both said GMs would still file the reports for players if needed through the help desk. There was a big stink on these forums about it involving you know who on a topic rasaline (SP) started.

[Nawesemo]

They are decreasing your experience, though. Making money out of nothing (blinkers, lol) creates inflation, which basically makes all your gil decrease in value. For every gil RMTs generate, your gil is worth less.

Of course, legit players generate gil out of nothing too, but with rmts, it happens faster, which leads to inflation increasing faster, which leads to your gil devaluing faster.

I understand that, but it is part of the world we play in, a lot like homeless people in real life, ...... Some get taken care of, the majority go unnoticed..... It is what it is, but I've no time or patience to police our gaming population for rmt., s.e. notices 100s of mllion moving to and from any given character, they should look into it, send a tell, inquire what is all that gils purpose, and make decisions from there, I play to play, not crusade against people trying to make ends meet, (yall know the shouts, know how long it takes to farm 5mil, and think these people are getting real life rich? I dont think so, but maybe.).... Red inflation sucks, but I expect a mass banning of the unexplainable gil hoarders.... Soon, and their gil to be taken out..... Maybe, maybe not, but a crusade against them I am not, they are not why i play.

[Demon6324236]

Today I went to do some seals out in Vunk[A] and guess what I found~ :O

http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i372/demon6324236/RMT/Dem120917133508a.jpg
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i372/demon6324236/RMT/Dem120917133443a.jpg
In fact most of the area was probably full of em...
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i372/demon6324236/RMT/RMT.png
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i372/demon6324236/RMT/RMT2.png
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i372/demon6324236/RMT/RMT3.png
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i372/demon6324236/RMT/RMT4.png
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i372/demon6324236/RMT/RMT5.png

[Nawesemo]

Incoming djinn ash npc price adjustment!!!! (Ok, you win, the names are a little indicative of foul play)

[Plasticleg]

Technically everyone is an RMT, we pay money for a subscription and/or buy the client software just for special in game items sometimes. It all depends on how you define the way money is traded.

RMT = RL $ for In-game money/items.

sry, there's no grey.

[Kaisha]

It's the botters that irritate me to no end.
What about folks clearly running at speeds they shouldn't be, or blatantly looking at things that are not normally visible until it finishes its cooldown?

Abyssea such a great place for catching cheaters.

[Sarick]

RMT = RL $ for In-game money/items.

sry, there's no grey.

All right maybe I should've attached a bit of a pun that it was some what smartarse sarcasm. Again, I fail to underestimate that some people can't realize the obvious. I guess it's to grey for them.

[Sarick]

What about folks clearly running at speeds they shouldn't be, or blatantly looking at things that are not normally visible until it finishes its cooldown?

Abyssea such a great place for catching cheaters.

If we complain enough the witch hunts might start and innocent people might feel the wrath of the ban hammer once again.

Seriously though it's these guys that ruin it for everyone. I doubt these guys will get ban if the main is a a long time legit player. After all this game is a busyness and these players do pay a monthly fee. With the dwindling player base banning these guys might not be worth their effort if it's not already obvious.

[Kaisha]

Don't ban them then. One week suspension plus some form of penalty (-50% Slow attack for two weeks would be annoying enough to most), plus a strike against your account.

[Plasticleg]

All right maybe I should've attached a bit of a pun that it was some what smartarse sarcasm. Again, I fail to underestimate that some people can't realize the obvious. I guess it's to grey for them.

ah, i took it literal.

booze + family over for the holiday= <<i'm sorry>>

[Nawesemo]

What about folks clearly running at speeds they shouldn't be, or blatantly looking at things that are not normally visible until it finishes its cooldown?

Abyssea such a great place for catching cheaters.

Meh.... Sprinters drink, ....and well some peoples computers run much faster than mine.... I've never been outclaimed so repeatedly that I've thought the other person was cheating, but don't doubt its happened. Back @75 though, it would tickleme pink when you knew the guy next to you was a bott.....but you had the red mob name.... Ahhhh yes glory.

[Secondplanet]

Here is a fun pic to show everyone, if this doesn't seem a tad bit suspicious then what would?

http://i49.tinypic.com/2w3rx2o.jpg

Was gonna buy this item for shifts and giggles but this is what smacked me in the face.

[Scribble]

s.e. notices 100s of mllion moving to and from any given character, they should look into it, send a tell, inquire what is all that gils purpose, and make decisions from there

SE polices RMT with their own bots. My account was suspended because a large amount of gil was traded. I contacted SE over the phone and the agent I spoke with told me that it was an automatic ban. I can't be certain because I wasn't the one who traded it, but my guess is that it was exactly two weeks after the trade.

tl;dr
SE uses programs to monitor trades and bots to automatically ban people who are flagged for 'suspicious activity'. Lazy as hell I know, but not likely to change.

[Nawesemo]

SE polices RMT with their own bots. My account was suspended because a large amount of gil was traded. I contacted SE over the phone and the agent I spoke with told me that it was an automatic ban. I can't be certain because I wasn't the one who traded it, but my guess is that it was exactly two weeks after the trade.

tl;dr
SE uses programs to monitor trades and bots to automatically ban people who are flagged for 'suspicious activity'. Lazy as hell I know, but not likely to change.

Yeah, the ban hammer.... I think I was max level 50 during the salvage-ban, and just after the auto banning, our shells patriarch Seiya, was taken hostage due to something similar... A casualty of the draconian policy, ..... I give em credit for trying, bur do think a person should have been involved in the decision..... Yes lazy, but it did need to happen...... In retrospect.

[Nawesemo]

Lol, someone paid a rediculous amount for a pearl body on cerebrus..... But yeah, some people exploit others laziness....

[Mirage]

The AH is full of obscure, outdated gear that is sold for ridiculous amounts of gil. I've been noticing this quite often the last few weeks, just looking at random items on ffxiah.com. Typically, the items are all very slow sales, usually less than one sale every couple of months, but then suddenly you have three people buying them for 10 millions, and their names are always some keyboardslam-like name.

I'm sure SE is aware of these anomalities, though. I can't imagine it being hard to detect with automated scripts/programs/whatever.

And @ Scribble, before you go out and call it lazy to use automated detection of RMT-like behavior, please try to make an estimate of how many transactions there are in this game, over all servers, per day. I'll give it a try too, and I'm gonna say "something like a few hundred thousands a day". Are you seriously expecting SE to monitor these manually? If they did, our monthly subscription would be in the hundreds, not $12.95. It is unrealistic for any big MMO to not use automatic detection of bot/rmt-like behavior. Sometimes these will produce false positives, but it is a lot easier to manually fix these false positives than it is to hire hundreds of employees to stare at transaction logs 24/7.

[Scribble]

And @ Scribble, before you go out and call it lazy to use automated detection of RMT-like behavior, please try to make an estimate of how many transactions there are in this game, over all servers, per day.

I should've been more clear about my situation. My account was compromised. I contacted support within a matter of days and my account was still automatically suspended two weeks later. They were made aware of the situation and still their bot auto-banned me. That is lazy.


Are you seriously expecting SE to monitor these manually? If they did, our monthly subscription would be in the hundreds, not $12.95.
That shit doesn't fly over my hood...

There are F2P games that have staff to review suspension or ban in those games so no, it's not asking too much. The fact that XI is a service that you pay for means you should have more attention spent on things like this. I never suggested they have someone comb through every single transaction, all day, every day and on every server. It's clear that they have a system in place that flags accounts for what they would consider to be suspicious activity. I don't think it's too much to ask that they assign a non-bot to investigate these specific cases.

You don't find ironic and maybe a little hypocritical that SE created a script to combat players using scripts?
banallthethings.gif

[Nawesemo]

I should've been more clear about my situation. My account was compromised. I contacted support within a matter of days and my account was still automatically suspended two weeks later. They were made aware of the situation and still their bot auto-banned me. That is lazy.


That shit doesn't fly over my hood...

There are F2P games that have staff to review suspension or ban in those games so no, it's not asking too much. The fact that XI is a service that you pay for means you should have more attention spent on things like this. I never suggested they have someone comb through every single transaction, all day, every day and on every server. It's clear that they have a system in place that flags accounts for what they would consider to be suspicious activity. I don't think it's too much to ask that they assign a non-bot to investigate these specific cases.

You don't find ironic and maybe a little hypocritical that SE created a script to combat players using scripts?
banallthethings.gif

I think I agree except for that last part, .... For me, to say that is like taking firearms from police... It's their world, we ask em to police it, if they dont use the tools that the bad guys use, they are asking for a e-thwomping..... But i think i agree with the rest, and if you were legit, a casualty caught in the crossfire..... Lol one of our tarus was temp banned for shouting naruto spoilers in jeuno(im sure previous violations played in the decision,),.....this is still s.e. were talking about. Yes, auto banning without a person looking at each flagged transaction is a little lazy in my book, but i think they do look now, for what its worth.

[Annahya]

The AH is full of obscure, outdated gear that is sold for ridiculous amounts of gil. I've been noticing this quite often the last few weeks, just looking at random items on ffxiah.com. Typically, the items are all very slow sales, usually less than one sale every couple of months, but then suddenly you have three people buying them for 10 millions, and their names are always some keyboardslam-like name.

I'm sure SE is aware of these anomalities, though. I can't imagine it being hard to detect with automated scripts/programs/whatever.

On Bismarck, I have been seeing a good number of people with Onion Weapons in their Bazaar for tens of millions of gil, wandering about the Port Sandy MH. I am not sure if this is the same thing that is happening with RMT at the AH, but that was the first thing that came to mind when I saw it.

[Secondplanet]

One time while fishing i saw a person with /anon and 4 lu shangs in their bazaar and it wasn't like the had them at 99999~ it was at what they cost to buy of AH and they were fishing up more moat carps in perfect timing each time only catching moat carps.

I filed the paperwork to send to the STF and even did a GM call, person was there for the next 3 weeks fishing non-stop. Eventually that person went away i guess and then a new person was fishing with 5 lu shangs.

just like the fishing bots that fish up trumpet shells to make trumpet rings to NPC. I've seen in jeuno people synthing these for hours, never once buying any of AH. i counted once a person made over 500 in one day. now that person doesn't do it anymore but runs to a new person who does...... yeah STF at work again.

[Riggs]

wow that's some amount of frozen gil, if anyone from the special task force is on i'de be happy to get rid of some of that gil for you :)

[Sarick]

I saw 3 alliances in Vunk A the other day near the rabbits/puk using 9 blms reverse chaining. All the BLMs where leaders for the parties in the alliances. The others where NUDE /anon Galka sitting all stacked up near the cave.

I'm sure anyone even SE with an inkling of understanding can clearly see beyond a shadow of a doubt these people are crurer farming and converting it into gil.

One of the funny things I recalled was 2 names that caught my attention. In one allince the Leader was ****** in the Next alliance the lead character was named "******" I guess he was the pimp.

I doubt these guys will have any action taken on them because the same player or group pays for at least 18 accounts. If this RMT like activity is multiplied on all servers well, you get the idea.

Don't believe us go to Vunk Inlet do a /search count the anons with the funky names. Only idiots would assume these are legitimate players when they farm 24/7 and create trains of bots buying/selling YOU KNOW WHAT.


If you agree that these players are probably RMT click the like below.


http://www.diywebsitegraphics.com/images/animated/ArrowDownLeftBig.gif

[Nawesemo]

I saw 3 alliances in Vunk A the other day near the rabbits/puk using 9 blms reverse chaining. All the BLMs where leaders for the parties in the alliances. The others where NUDE /anon Galka sitting all stacked up near the cave.

I'm sure anyone even SE with an inkling of understanding can clearly see beyond a shadow of a doubt these people are crurer farming and converting it into gil.

One of the funny things I recalled was 2 names that caught my attention. In one allince the Leader was Shrimp in the Next alliance the lead character was named "Filpus" I guess he was the pimp.

I doubt these guys will have any action taken on them because the same player or group pays for at least 18 accounts. If this RMT like activity is multiplied on all servers well, you get the idea.

Don't believe us go to Vunk Inlet do a /search count the anons with the funky names. Only idiots would assume these are legitimate players when they farm 24/7 and create trains of bots buying/selling YOU KNOW WHAT.

If you agree these these players are probably RMT click the like below.

I gave you a like, but assuming they were gil farmers, ....

Now, I do something very similar, (no, I don't own 18 accounts), but do from time to time farm cruor like that, and invite the shell out for afk cruor, and or exp. They don't pile on one another, they often are as well dressed as gear/ wallet allows.

And the legit players doing the fellcleaves,.... I can understand normal players who are able to do this for some quick gil. (Ok not that quick) but think they would get sick of doing it day after day.

The rmt took the time to level 18 accounts to 30,.... Just to get em in, did the run to and from jeuno to access maw,..... In the horribly random name instance, I think its safe to assume something is there worth looking into. It's a problem, I'm not sure a good way to curb it though. I mean, the rmt would ammass a lot of gil on multiple accts, unload it, ..... And then get caught.... If they're willing to do the level 18 accts again,....then we've just sort of allowed it, ....it would take policing the hot cleave/aoe burns, and ban /temp ban them then and there to actually discourage it.... Imo at least. (And innocent legit players will be casualties)

[Sarick]

I gave you a like, but assuming they were gil farmers, ....

Now, I do something very similar, (no, I don't own 18 accounts), but do from time to time farm cruor like that, and invite the shell out for afk cruor, and or exp. They don't pile on one another, they often are as well dressed as gear/ wallet allows.

And the legit players doing the fellcleaves,.... I can understand normal players who are able to do this for some quick gil. (Ok not that quick) but think they would get sick of doing it day after day.

The rmt took the time to level 18 accounts to 30,.... Just to get em in, did the run to and from jeuno to access maw,..... In the horribly random name instance, I think its safe to assume something is there worth looking into. It's a problem, I'm not sure a good way to curb it though. I mean, the rmt would ammass a lot of gil on multiple accts, unload it, ..... And then get caught.... If they're willing to do the level 18 accts again,....then we've just sort of allowed it, ....it would take policing the hot cleave/aoe burns, and ban /temp ban them then and there to actually discourage it.... Imo at least. (And innocent legit players will be casualties)


The ligit players have characters that are used for duel boxing, multi-boxing or in general they actually play the game. When you see these guys their names are simply created as filler names. Nothing is wrong with cleavers and burn parties. These guys aren't cleaving anyway, they're killing one type mob then killing another type mob. They are REVERSE chaining to get 600+ curers a kill. It's the same as chaining EXP but instead of EXP crurers multiply.

Let me explain as to why SE probably won't do anything. Gil has about a two to one ratio. If each kill gets 600s that means about 1200g per kill. Multiply that times 18 every 5-10 seconds 21,600 at 6 kills a minute. Then multiply that by one hour at about 7,776,000k an hour. Last multiply that by 24 hours. My calculator is scientific so it gave me an exponent number of 1.8662 x08 or 186,624,000 gil per day.


If you multiply that by a week its 1,306,494,000 gil every 7 days.

It's really not that much gil to complain about and it shouldn't affect the economy :rolleyes:

If my figures are wrong please correct them.

Anyone get the picture? I'm not including the items or crurers from the chest. This is just one alliance killing 1 mob at a time. When I looked yesterday 3 alliances where doing this.

[Nawesemo]

Yeah, we get... Pretty sure I agree, but feel a little like you want to argue about this... I dunno, anyway yeah, rmt bad, but I've little time to hunt them down and report em, and it'd just be one of those things, you have to be sure about if your s.e., a handful of perma bans on shell leaders could have vana'diel in riots ya know.

[Sarick]

Yeah, we get... Pretty sure I agree, but feel a little like you want to argue about this... I dunno, anyway yeah, rmt bad, but I've little time to hunt them down and report em, and it'd just be one of those things, you have to be sure about if your s.e., a handful of perma bans on shell leaders could have vana'diel in riots ya know.

Na, no one cares. Its only a few gil nobody notices.:rolleyes: The numbers above aren't seen/realised unless someone takes the time to break them down like I did.;)

[Demon6324236]

Na, no one cares. Its only a few gil nobody notices.:rolleyes: The numbers above aren't seen/realised unless someone takes the time to break them down like I did.;)

Ya know though, now that you put it that way I almost feel like doing that for like 3 days, 8 hours a day, with my ls, because you could pop out a relic every 3 days like that...

[Sarick]

Ya know though, now that you put it that way I almost feel like doing that for like 3 days, 8 hours a day, with my ls, because you could pop out a relic every 3 days like that...


Good luck getting people to convert all that crurer to gil and then hand it over. :p

Each person in the group would make 1200g per kill That's 6 kills a minute totaling 7200g. It would be 432,000g an hour. A full day (24 hours) would make 10,368,000 per day. You could make 72,576,000 gil per person per week. Not counting crurur boxes or gold box items.

NO NO NO, you can't count keys as a loss here because every kill pays for a key! Keys are 500c each and the enemies give 600 each. LOL Only one person would be not making the full amount the rest would be doing fine.

Keep in mind my numbers are very conservative estimates. :cool:

[Demon6324236]

Well~ if ya get everyone to work together, I mean 18 people, 3 days for 1 relic, thats less than 2 months for 18 Relics, 1 each.

[Sarick]

Well~ if ya get everyone to work together, I mean 18 people, 3 days for 1 relic, thats less than 2 months for 18 Relics, 1 each.

Gil buys currency, it doesn't farm itself. What i'm trying to say is ~if a bunch of people do this prices of currency will go up as will everything else making the fire crystals 40k a stack again.~

WARNING HIDDEN CONTENT BELOW
What SE might do is limit the amount of stuff you can buy/convert per day like they did with fishing.

[Riggs]

i tried this with a friend, those numbers quoted above sound great but after 2 hours it gets so boring its crazy and if you run 18 chars for this thats gonna cost you 18x £18 = £324 to buy 18 accounts plus circa £160 per month on fees

[Nawesemo]

:/ I got lost somewhere in here.....

I think were at, cant beat em join em, but I'm not sure.

[Sarick]

i tried this with a friend, those numbers quoted above sound great but after 2 hours it gets so boring its crazy and if you run 18 chars for this thats gonna cost you 18x £18 = £324 to buy 18 accounts plus circa £160 per month on fees

You think those guys care about the money? A single day I assume the RMT's can make that back! They've done the math (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/27341-question-for-GM-s?p=363450&viewfull=1#post363450) and are in busyness for it. Just like me, after seeing those numbers (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/27341-question-for-GM-s?p=363516&viewfull=1#post363516) I think a few people got their eyes opened. They don't care about boring either because they don't play for fun like you or me.:confused:

[Sarick]

:/ I got lost somewhere in here.....

I think were at, cant beat em join em, but I'm not sure.

Just throwing numbers (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/27341-question-for-GM-s?p=363450&viewfull=1#post363450) around to open a few blind eyes passing by.

[Sarick]

Don't ban them then. One week suspension plus some form of penalty (-50% Slow attack for two weeks would be annoying enough to most), plus a strike against your account.

I HAVE A BETTER SUGGESTION THEN BANNING PLAYERS.

Make a special JAIL server Chaos (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Chaos) and just throw all the busted RMT, and stuff on it. This is win win for everyone. :rolleyes: It might even become a popular server.

No one gets banned. They can make as much money (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/27341-question-for-GM-s?p=363450&viewfull=1#post363450) as they want. SE still gets to keep the subscriptions.

[Nawesemo]

Just throwing numbers around to open a few blind eyes passing by.

*blush shameful I know, but I just wanna go farm more cruor after reading most of them #'s, go rough up the brits(on account of em usually being asleep when on farming) to make me mules and go put in work... Lol, aweful I know... :/ yeah, they're contributing massively to our inflation... And that's bad, when I'm there, i find an army of zxutre, chfdsa, agjiyt, tarus, I'll be more inclined to report em.

[Nawesemo]

I HAVE A BETTER SUGGESTION THEN BANNING PLAYERS.

Make a special JAIL server and just throw all the busted RMT, and stuff on it. This is win win for everyone. :rolleyes: It might even become a popular server.

No one gets banned. They can make as much money as they want. SE still gets to keep the subscriptions.

/cheers /clap

[Sarick]

/cheers /clap

LOL >>>
LM-69 Your account and characters have been transferred to the Chaos (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Chaos) server pending further investigation. We apologize for this inconvenience.:rolleyes:

[Riggs]

you have to wonder if this is really having an effect on inflation, mostly i farm and sell dynamis currency to buy other currency for that relic weapon i will have some day. But i have noticed no increase in prices on currency. surly if people were buying large sums of gil the cost of dynamis currency would have gone through the roof while in fact its gotten cheaper over the last year

[Sarick]

you have to wonder if this is really having an effect on inflation, mostly i farm and sell dynamis currency to buy other currency for that relic weapon i will have some day. But i have noticed no increase in prices on currency. surly if people were buying large sums of gil the cost of dynamis currency would have gone through the roof while in fact its gotten cheaper over the last year

They could be selling it for real money, building stockpiles for the new expansion or making EMP upgrades Heavy metal has gone up about 50% on my server it was once 100k now I see a lot of people with it for 150k or more. Someone is buying it for those prices because the players selling them at 150k in port Jeuno tend to offload 100's of them at the price. Unless these people removed them from the list or ninja lowered the price they sold them for 150k each. I'm not talking 1-5 of them It's 100's of them.

[Mirage]

you have to wonder if this is really having an effect on inflation, mostly i farm and sell dynamis currency to buy other currency for that relic weapon i will have some day. But i have noticed no increase in prices on currency. surly if people were buying large sums of gil the cost of dynamis currency would have gone through the roof while in fact its gotten cheaper over the last year

That couldn't possibly be because of a greatly increased supply due to dynamis currency getting easier and easier to farm, right? :p

First, we could do it daily, without even paying an entrance fee, and weakness triggering was added to let us get currency more easily. After that, we've seen several level cap increases, greatly boosting our efficiency in dynamis, letting us kill mobs faster than before and with less risk of death.

-edit- Oh and then there was also the implementation of white weakness triggers in Dreamland dynamis, which probably increased the supply of hundreds by quite a bit.

[Winrie]

150k metals on your Server? Crap ima buy every metal I see and migrate, on my server they are nearing 70k lmao. I know it's against the tos and all and I'm not supporting what they do but in all honesty they aren't messing with our NMs or exp camps or really touching anything on the auction house that's common and popular, if anything their fell cleaves are getting people leveled up lol, not that leveling is a problem. The only thing about this that bugs me is it's dangerous for me to share Gil with friends I'm working on relics with because if I trade too large an amount boom, I get canned for jack shit. Currently I'm working on a relic with a friend and we trade Gil between each other to catch currency while the other person is at work, I guess it's even a risk to trade Gil to a mule too. That's what bugs me, risk of non rmt being banned for having Gil. While I know it happens, it shouldn't, no way playerbase will deal with illegitimate bannings in 2012.

[Demon6324236]

Metals here are 100~110k with 8k Bronze/Byne & 6k Shells.

[zataz]

i am totally against rmt 100%. that said, please provide proof they have done anything wrong. slander isn't nice nor fun.

[Nakts]

Easy way to fix RMT is for SE to sell currency themselves, or for idiot players to stop buying gil, just a thought.

[Sarick]

i am totally against rmt 100%. that said, please provide proof they have done anything wrong. slander isn't nice nor fun.

What proof do you need? Trains of nude characters running around in matching paths. Farming 24/7 for days and even weeks then sending them off to convert. I don't think anyone would logically defend it unless they themselves had some type of involvement in doing it.

Slander?, WTF This is when you say something false about a real person or public entity that affects their ability to make money etc. These are in game anonymous characters that have no public recognition. The proof is here pictures, actions and obvious evidence that something is nefarious going on.

I don't know if you're trolling, being sarcastic or having serious insanity issues. Other then the internally logged data you don't need to be a detective (http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=20&la=1) to figure things out.

[Secondplanet]

http://i47.tinypic.com/2hnqmpe.jpg

O.o so its been like how long, i've reported to GM's, even the not so efficient STF. And yet here they are still......

Again SE is quick to ban anyone using 3rd party software but when it comes to suspicious RMT activity they might as well give it some thumbs up cause nothing is being done about it. I also agree with the upcoming expansion they are stockpiling for the slim chance that new people will join or comeback to sell gil. Hell i got a /tell the other day its down to 6.99/mil now AND AGAIN i report this message and get the normal we'll look into it message.

You'd think SE would catch on that people with names of a cat typing on a keyboard would warrant something.

Other idea make it that trial accounts can't use AH/Delivery System/Trade. Make a new status like the yellow/blue flags beside demo accounts and make it a trial account has something like a lock or a clock by the name, and if they have over 100k gil their flagged for IMMEDIATE evaluation.

[Phogg]

I need to get in on the wooden arrow market on phoenix, seems legit:

Wooden Arrow
Price History (25)
Date Seller Buyer Price
Aug. 31, 2012 Einesx Rogeph 13,079,638
Aug. 29, 2012 Soukocci Soukoooban 50,000,010
Aug. 22, 2012 Rogeph Docp 1,864,780
Aug. 19, 2012 Emmamary Yalaalaa 900,012
Aug. 19, 2012 Yalaalaa Emmamary 31
Aug. 19, 2012 Emmamary Yalaalaa 23,400,279
Aug. 17, 2012 Dereseo Tesoby 7,000,000
Aug. 13, 2012 Syuiro Nodotti 1
Aug. 10, 2012 Dhapho Dasieph 10,800,000
Aug. 3, 2012 Tuhd Qaazxi 2,900,000

[Dazusu]

RMT have existed from the dawn of this game, way before IGE existed. It's nothing new. Report the character names to the STF - then give them 6-12 weeks, and the characters *should* disappear... but don't expect instant action, I'm pretty sure they have a huge backlog.

The STF are proactively banning RMT: http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/rule/specialtask.html

This page shows that last month (August 2012) 1.5 billion gil was frozen and 1,151 accounts were banned for RMT-related activity.

[Mirage]

Other idea make it that trial accounts can't use AH/Delivery System/Trade. Make a new status like the yellow/blue flags beside demo accounts and make it a trial account has something like a lock or a clock by the name, and if they have over 100k gil their flagged for IMMEDIATE evaluation.

Are you suggesting that legit players who bought the game would not be able to buy, sell or trade gear for the first month they played? They would quit within the first week. This is a terrible idea. Getting 100k gil within the first month is easy for a new account as well. If they get into an abyssea party they'll have 100k from the drops gained there alone within one or two exp sessions.

[Kaisha]

Are you suggesting that legit players who bought the game would not be able to buy, sell or trade gear for the first month they played? They would quit within the first week. This is a terrible idea. Getting 100k gil within the first month is easy too.
Doesn't matter much when the game already has a 'trial account' status for trial users anyhow nowadays, preventing RMT from abusing that, which was dreadful during the last time they had 'trials' where we were spammed non-stop with BuyGil spam.

Not much they can do to limit spam though on actual accounts other than just banhammering them as they come.

[Mirage]

Those are two different things, actually.

You have one trial account thing that is entirely free, and prevents trading, /telling and a few other things. Then you have people who are on the first 30 days trial of a game they paid money for.

I was assuming Secondplanet was talking about limiting these players, seeing as it would make no sense to suggest limiting the free trial users in the way he suggested, when they are already limited more or less exactly like he suggested.

[Secondplanet]

RMT have existed from the dawn of this game, way before IGE existed. It's nothing new. Report the character names to the STF - then give them 6-12 weeks, and the characters *should* disappear... but don't expect instant action, I'm pretty sure they have a huge backlog.

The STF are proactively banning RMT regularly: http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/rule/specialtask.html

This page shows that last month (August 2012) 1.5 billion gil was frozen and 1,151 accounts were banned for RMT-related activity.

The problem is by the time the 6-12 weeks are done the money went from #1 traded to #2 mailed to #3 sold to #4 through bazaar and sent to #5 by buying something stupid on AH for X million gil. You can't track all of that or there would be more then just 1.5billion gone. Also out of those accounts how many were trials?


Are you suggesting that legit players who bought the game would not be able to buy, sell or trade gear for the first month they played? They would quit within the first week. This is a terrible idea. Getting 100k gil within the first month is easy for a new account as well. If they get into an abyssea party they'll have 100k from the drops gained there alone within one or two exp sessions.

Then take away the free first month and make it that you have to pay, then SE can use that money to get more ppl on the STF to make sure that RMT are dealt with more swiftly. Also why would someone brand new to the game ruin their first job with doing abyssea ASAP? the servers are already plagued with players with amazing gear and no skill to use it. Even if they allow the player to buy on AH but not place items for sale.

The RMT group is taking advantage of too many things and SE isn't keeping on top of it. Even if SE made a quest you have to do with some lvl 70+ job to go to abyssea for the first time would also discourage RMT from doing it but since they all probably all lvl 99 with the skills of a lvl 1 it shouldn't to hard to find them.

[Mirage]

Then take away the free first month and make it that you have to pay, then SE can use that money to get more ppl on the STF to make sure that RMT are dealt with more swiftly. Also why would someone brand new to the game ruin their first job with doing abyssea ASAP? the servers are already plagued with players with amazing gear and no skill to use it. Even if they allow the player to buy on AH but not place items for sale.

One month of play time included in the initial game purchase is standard in the MMO world. If they didn't give people that, they would instead have to offer the client download for free. For both RMT, legit players and SE, this would make no difference in money spent/earned, so why even bother?

And I dunno what you mean by "ASAP". If you've spent 2-3 weeks getting to level 70-75, why wouldn't you want to finally be able to participate in what is the most efficient way to get mid-range gear, exp and merits? Even leveling from 70-80, you'd get enough 13000-gil-hachimakis, scrolls, and whatever to get way more than 100k gil.

[Demon6324236]

An easy way to explain the problem is they don't ban RMTs fast enough, they still make profit, which means they still do it. If RMTs were gotten rid of at a faster rate & they were losing money or making very little they could be snuffed out, doesn't seem likely though.

[Secondplanet]

One month of play time included in the initial game purchase is standard in the MMO world. If they didn't give people that, they would instead have to offer the client download for free. For both RMT, legit players and SE, this would make no difference in money spent/earned, so why even bother?

And I dunno what you mean by "ASAP". If you've spent 2-3 weeks getting to level 70-75, why wouldn't you want to finally be able to participate in what is the most efficient way to get mid-range gear, exp and merits? Even leveling from 70-80, you'd get enough 13000-gil-hachimakis, scrolls, and whatever to get way more than 100k gil.

i was talking about new accounts, you don't start off at lvl 70 you start off at lvl 1. If you can get to lvl 70 (which is almost impossible unless you book burn) in less then a month maybe you need to take some time off the game or be flagged. I understand people loving the game but i don't think someone new will spend days on end doing nothing but grinding levels for 1 month to get into abyssea. They have missions to do quests to get annoyed with. 1 month of blocked features won't feel that long with all there is to do.

[Mirage]

What part of my post makes you think I thought new characters start at lv 70?

Never said I didn't talk about book burn. Yes, GoV leveling is fast, and it is what most new players use to rapidly gain levels. It easily gets you to 70 within a couple of weeks, with only limit breaks slowing you down. Those are however relatively fast to get out of the way if you make some friends over those two weeks.

[Secondplanet]

What part of my post makes you think I thought new characters start at lv 70?

Never said I didn't talk about book burn. Yes, GoV leveling is fast, and it is what most new players use to rapidly gain levels. It easily gets you to 70 within a couple of weeks, with only limit breaks slowing you down. Those are however relatively fast to get out of the way if you make some friends over those two weeks.

that would be how you were talking about new accounts then talk about level 70. And also getting from level 1-70 in 2 weeks through book burning your just senseless grinding, thats not playing the game your just existing. When i joined the game years and years ago it took me almost 2 weeks to get to lvl 20, and i was having fun doing it running around doing quests and even getting a subjob.

They could easily lock a lot of features in this game for the first month and not effect new players too much.

Kinda funny though how you put down the idea of how to stop RMT's but fail to give one for yourself.....

[Mirage]

Nevertheless, this is how most new players are playing. They are grinding to endgame as fast as the game allows them to. They don't want to be low level any longer than they have to, why do you want them to be?

[Enochroot]

Suggestion: STF members should get in-game avatars similar to the GM's judges. They should be Odin-type and have the power to Zantetsuken auto /followed hordes of RMT/cruorbots and cut them all down simultaneously. Do it. DO IT.

[Secondplanet]

Suggestion: STF members should get in-game avatars similar to the GM's judges. They should be Odin-type and have the power to Zantetsuken auto /followed hordes of RMT/cruorbots and cut them all down simultaneously. Do it. DO IT.

nice idea but a big flaw with that.... they would miss them all and maybe just maybe get 1. I love the idea someone had where they should just send them to a different server called chaos pending investigation. They can still play but the gil can't go anywhere harmful, and if innocent they can be transfered back to their original server.

[lllen]

7/1/2009 - 7/31/2009 31,630 Approx. 2.7 billion
5/1/2012 - 5/31/2012 1,417 Approx. 2.4 billion

Must be way easier to make gil these days, less overhead

[Kaisha]

Must be way easier to make gil these days, less overhead
Chocobo blinkers are the new rusty subligars.

[Demon6324236]

Heres how you fix it, anyone with a name similar to shdkah is flagged as someone to keep under watch. If this person partakes in cruor runs, they get contacted by a GM, whom would talk to the player in order to assess that it is not a RMT, RMTs do not speak to anyone, I wonder if GMs are the exception. After this if the zone has 3 or more people with this same condition, a GM goes to that location to see them. If there is a line of them, and the GM is being ignored, ban them, RMTs are gone, and no innocent person is harmed.

[Sarick]

Heres how you fix it, anyone with a name similar to shdkah is flagged as someone to keep under watch. If this person partakes in cruor runs, they get contacted by a GM, whom would talk to the player in order to assess that it is not a RMT, RMTs do not speak to anyone, I wonder if GMs are the exception. After this if the zone has 3 or more people with this same condition, a GM goes to that location to see them. If there is a line of them, and the GM is being ignored, ban them, RMTs are gone, and no innocent person is harmed.

To much work. They no longer do weddings for a reason.

[Sarick]

nice idea but a big flaw with that.... they would miss them all and maybe just maybe get 1. I love the idea someone had where they should just send them to a different server called chaos pending investigation. They can still play but the gil can't go anywhere harmful, and if innocent they can be transfered back to their original server.


Someone?
Someone?
Someone?

I Have a name too. :(

[Demon6324236]

Its pointless to attempt to get rid of RMTs then. They have no way of removing them fast enough for RMTs to have cause to leave, so doing what they are is really a meaningless effort. In honesty though, I'm surprised SE could not take legal action of some sort to have the websites for RMT shut down as it voids an agreement the users must have agreed to, if they participate in the sites activities.

[Vold]

Its pointless to attempt to get rid of RMTs then. They have no way of removing them fast enough for RMTs to have cause to leave, so doing what they are is really a meaningless effort.At first glance it might appear that way, but when you consider how few of us remain, and how much gil they apparently farm every month that gets locked up, we would be looking at what? 2 dollars per mil? 1? I mean they got to charge a price that unloads so many billions of gil that's making them no real life dollars. Mighty tempting to many of player to skip all that hard work in favor of paying out 100 bucks for 100 mil rather than spend weeks earning it.

It keeps inflation in check. That's good enough for me.

[Nakts]

I agree that a lot of AH activity could use a look by GMs, but a lot of other things in this thread seem to be pure opinion.
On a side note; why is that gilselling website still around, I thought SE could just send a notice to the host/registrar and have the whole thing shut down in a matter of days.

[Mirage]

Different jurisdictions and laws etc.

You can't just make someone in X country take down a site if you're in Y country yourself. You *might* be able to if your country has certain agreements put in place with the other country, but that might not always be the case. What's illegal one country might not be illegal in others, especially when it comes to something relatively new like selling series of 0s and 1s in a video game.

I'm pretty sure SE has used legal channels to shut down various RMT websites in the past, but these things are like hydras. Chop off one head and two new ones grow out in its place.

[Secondplanet]

The other thing that bugs me are the people who abyssea a job to the top and then use 3rd party programs to level the skills. I've seen people in the area before shinryu spamming magic for hours nonstop at perfect intervals and even them outside jeuno. Its easy to tell they are bots since they don't talk and everything is perfectly in sync. Again where is the STF or GM's while this is going on?

[Demon6324236]

I don't think they are always bots/scripts though, admittedly I have seen a WHM in the area you fight Shinryu and he was spamming cure, yet when people needed a raise he popped out and raised them, and went back his corner after, to keep on skilling.

[Slaxx]

Funny, I started the grind of getting my Enhancing skill up recently and figured that with a good macro and while paying attention I could cast roughly 800 enhancing spells per hour. If you have the ability to concentrate its VERY possible to get the timing right. You are making accusations with literally no actual proof, just the belief that because you can't (or won't) do it no one else can either.

I also suspect that the "hours non-stop" claim is hyperbole. If you actually stood there for hours watching them why weren't you actually accomplishing something instead of getting worked up over something that hurts no one.

[Plasticleg]

I don't think they are always bots/scripts though, admittedly I have seen a WHM in the area you fight Shinryu and he was spamming cure, yet when people needed a raise he popped out and raised them, and went back his corner after, to keep on skilling.

Maybe you shouldn't be wiping to Shin in the first place?
I don't remember where it was written in the ToS that a person with raise has to cast it on someone else.

[Demon6324236]

Maybe you shouldn't be wiping to Shin in the first place?
I don't remember where it was written in the ToS that a person with raise has to cast it on someone else.

What? What I was saying is that apparently that person was actually there, because they were doing something besides skilling. That means not everyone skilling in a corner spamming spells for hours are botters or using 3rd party programs, some are people actually doing it themselves, so you cant just label everyone who does skill like that, as cheaters and ban them.

[Sarick]

Did a representative or GM respond to this topic (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/27341-question-for-GM-s?p=362174&viewfull=1#post362174)yet? It's been so long I forgot and don't feel like checking the old post. Anyway they'd probably just say go here (http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=20&la=1).

[Romulis]

Easy way to fix RMT is for SE to sell currency themselves, or for idiot players to stop buying gil, just a thought.
THIS^^It would be like the marketplace that SOE is currently raking in money from on EQ2. Smart game plan imo. thankfully i am one of the lucky ones i played through the gil boom n levi then had to stop playing for quite a few years and boom i can buy anything i want. who knew that selling SH+1 for obscene amounts back when would be my retirement today :P

[Sarick]

THIS^^It would be like the marketplace that SOE is currently raking in money from on EQ2. Smart game plan imo. thankfully i am one of the lucky ones i played through the gil boom n levi then had to stop playing for quite a few years and boom i can buy anything i want. who knew that selling SH+1 for obscene amounts back when would be my retirement today :P

Just put (LOCK) the known RMT etc. on the chaos server.

[Secondplanet]

Here is the newest one i saw just the yesterday while helping some friends in bastok was this

http://i48.tinypic.com/11t7e2w.jpg

I followed them all to the maw in north gusta. This train was long and huge, while running they spanned the entire bridge in port from one side to another, there was easily over 20 of them in this train.

[Demon6324236]

I wonder how they get to 30 to do all of that...

[Mirage]

I don't.
/ten

[Sarick]

I wonder how they get to 30 to do all of that...

It only takes one of those players in an alliance to level everyone up to level 10 if all of them are book burning in the right place. After that they just move to higher mobs with a high level BOOK burn. In a few hours all 17 characters can be level 30. They don't need a limit break either just to get the $$$.

[Demon6324236]

True, I just kinda wonder where seeing as I have never seen a group of them around. : /

[Jhanaka]

Hello everyone,

I see there has been questions why the GM team have not replied to this thread yet and I would like to touch bases with those who have made posts.

I have explained, in past threads, that the GM team takes a general hands off to RMT Customer reports as the Special Task Force is the department which handles those violations and does thorough investigations into the claims. Square Enix recognized the RMT situation was a much larger issue than just the GM team could handle, so they created the Task Force just to handle this community concern.

While the GMs understand the reports and would like to be able to sweep in and remove the suspicious customers, but normally that is all we have to go on is suspicion; running around with no Linkshell, AH bought gear, level one characters following a high level character, not replying to tells, etc is not a Terms of Service violation. Without a solid Terms of Service violation the GMs need to pass on the information to our Special Task Force so they can do a deeper review.

If you place /helpdesk calls, the GM Team will take any names you report and pass them on to the Special Task Force who have the tools, time and resources to monitor the customers you report. Another thing we may want to consider is that the Task Force is also watching their actions to watch for trends, find the banks, mules and other characters and accounts involved; remember they go after not only the RMT supplies, but the customers of the sites too. But, for the most part, the Special Task Force keeps their agenda secret as they cannot have their investigation means made known public as all of their progress would be lost.

We are here to support you and hear everything you are saying about these suspicious characters, do not give up hope. Please do not stop reporting the cases to use, just be sure to include a name and general description on what they are doing. I know the report line is not very long, so you can say something like: “Bsssiojsoslso may be absentee fishing in Port Jeuno” or “Busususussjsj has been seen with multiple level one chars following while he hunts– please review”. Normally we do not need job/race combos , so if you include that in your reports, it is not always needed.

I am always trying to find better ways to help explain the GMs to our players because the players and GMs work as a team to help keep the game fun for everyone – if you do not report, we cannot review.

Thank you and I am sorry for the wall of text. I will keep this thread open as it has been civil. I may not be able to answer any direct questions, but I will keep an eye on this thread.

-SGM Jhanaka

[Nawesemo]

Thank you.

[Sarick]

Thank you for stepping up to discuss this.

[Sarick]

True, I just kinda wonder where seeing as I have never seen a group of them around. : /

I've seen them they hide in the walls or at the books all bunched up in exp places where average players usually don't go. Once you hit level 10 sky's the limit for book burns. This isn't the problem its the abbysea reverse chain groups that are abusing the system. These keyboard slam characters are what I call trailer trains.

As for that AH exploit, the trial accounts are being used to transfer massive amounts of gil. You can't trade to a trial account but if they put up a 1 gil item and instantly buy it for 10 million it could be outside the RMT pawner system. Trial accounts are limited to trades but not limited to the amount of gil they can post stuff in the AH for. This way a trial or newbie account can place an item up for 1 gil and then then transfer millions by having an alt instantly buy it.

I have no suggestions on how this could be fixed without restricting the ah some.

[Nawesemo]

Lol blue peas!!!! Once upon a time, I was a weenie level 22ish rdm, I learned about gardening, loaded up seven mules. And grew a battalions worth of...... Blue peas, *shut up I didn't read about feeding plants clusters, .... So I had to get rid of the peas, off to the ah with me.... Checked price, ..../cry put em up for the magical 1 gil, ran back to mh, checked d box "MOTHER OF GOD" 890,000 GIL 1 stack..... I thought I hit the mother load...... Still waiting for the second stack to sell..... -.-


Just now hit me that I hijacked a rmt transfer.

[Mirage]

Thank you for your reply. Is it necessary for us to report suspicious auction house activity, such as buying low-level items for extreme amounts of gil, or do you have other (perhaps automatic) methods of monitoring these things?

If you prefer us to report these things, would it be acceptable to do this with the /helpdesk command in the game itself?

Additionally, while I think I might get some negative feedback from the players for this, would it perhaps be an acceptable countermeasure to severely limit cruor gain in abyssea for characters that have not completed the lv70-75 limit break? The way I see it, this would not interfere with the majority of legitimate players. Players who have done the Maat fight would be completely unaffected by this when they took their next low-level job into abyssea, and the only way I can see this affecting legitimate players is when they have created a new character, perhaps a mule, and wish to have other players powerlevel this character up. Even then, it would only affect the new character the first time they took a job up (and only if they chose the chest-burn route). After that, everything would be as usual.

However, it would slow down things a lot if RMT characters were suddenly required to beat maat on every new character they created if they wanted to gain cruor with it. While it is possible for certain jobs to defeat maat with combat skills at 0 (thief, maybe white mage), I am sure it would slow them down and make life a lot less convenient for them. Without having beaten maat, the cruor gain in abyssea could be perhaps 5% of what it currently is.

As for the implementation, it could be done by introducing a key item (in this case, an abyssite) that would be obtainable by talking to an abyssea NPC after acquiring the title "Maat Masher". Without this abyssite, cruor gain would be reduced to 5% of the normal rate.

I don't think I've overlooked anything that would significantly impact legitimate players with this suggestion, but if I have, feel free to point it out.

[Jhanaka]

Mirage >> Good afternoon! Just a quick reply to your questions.

The Auction House transaction scheme is very odd, and that would be something I would report via the Report to Special Task Force feature at the Support Center. (http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=20&la=1) The GM team and the Task Force have many tools at our disposal, but that seems a violation that would take some deeper investigation, so the Task Force may be better suited.

If our players are on the PS/Xbox systems and do not have the means to reach the Support Center, then folks can report to the GM team via the /helpdesk. The GM team will then provide you a quick message back, thanking you for the report, stating we will review and also mention of the Task Force; the GM team will investigate if it falls under our policies and, no matter what, we pass the information onto our Task Force.

The above advice actually goes for any RMT behavior you wish to have reviewed. The GM team can be used as a means to report to the Task Force, so please feel free to use the /helpdesk anytime.

As for your suggestion on limiting Cruor due to Limit Break Fights, that is a great idea and I will pass that up to our team. Thank you for giving thought into ways we can stop the RMT, as I said we are all a team. =)

With that said, I shall step back out of this thread and let you everyone continue their discussion.

Have a great day.

[Secondplanet]

Jhanaka i do thank you to no ends for replying to this board and problems. I was wondering moreover isn't there anyway to autoscan names of new character evenmore so ones like a cat who played on on a keyboard to make the name?

That alone will cut down a fair amount of the problems i notice.

[EFFEFFEXXEYY]

I've seen them they hide in the walls or at the books all bunched up in exp places where average players usually don't go. Once you hit level 10 sky's the limit for book burns. This isn't the problem its the abbysea reverse chain groups that are abusing the system. These keyboard slam characters are what I call trailer trains.

As for that AH exploit, the trial accounts are being used to transfer massive amounts of gil. You can't trade to a trial account but if they put up a 1 gil item and instantly buy it for 10 million it could be outside the RMT pawner system. Trial accounts are limited to trades but not limited to the amount of gil they can post stuff in the AH for. This way a trial or newbie account can place an item up for 1 gil and then then transfer millions by having an alt instantly buy it.

I have no suggestions on how this could be fixed without restricting the ah some.

I understand that the heart of your post is good-natured, but I simply can't ignore that it contains two blatantly incorrect insinuations of truth which are not fact based.

First, your post follows the general assumption throughout this thread which is incorrect. These are not trial accounts. Trial accounts have a yellow and green badge by their name that cannot be removed under any circumstances.

The badge is actually this, which in Japan is used to indicate novice drivers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshinsha_mark

Point of fact, these are not trial accounts. They are paid accounts. Trial accounts cannot enter Abyssea, which defies the prevailing logic of your post.

Now let me explain something. FFXI with all expansions and 1 free month of play was selling for 9.99 on amazon last month. It has sold on Steam for as little as 4.99. If the company that makes this game were sincere about limiting the issues you seem to care so much about, the first thing they would do is stop practically giving away the game for free.

But make no mistake, it's not free, even at 5 dollars. And these "trailer trains" as you so cleverly coined the term are paying customers that bought the product. They are using it how they see fit, and an SGM in this thread just told you it's not the job of GMs to police the activity. Report them to the special task force as instructed.

Second, trial accounts are not being used to manipulate the auction house. PERIOD. You have clearly never used a trial account. It's not that they cannot buy or sell on the auction house. It's not that they can't trade. And it's not that they can't send or receive deliveries.

IT'S THAT THE THREE FUNCTIONS I JUST MENTIONED HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY DISABLED AND DO NOT EVEN APPEAR AS MENU CHOICES.

To even click an auction house counter is completely disabled.

So no, suspicious trades are NOT coming from trial accounts.

They are paid accounts.

They are a product of Square practically giving this game away for free.

At the point you can launder 55 million gil for the price of a 5 dollar license key, it no longer becomes relevant whether it is free to do so under a trial or whether it involves a negligible fee.

It is a small opportunity cost. The price of doing business.

But don't insult anyone's intelligence by pretending that

1) Square is clumsy/lazy/stupid enough to allow trial accounts to make such transactions
&
2) The persons engaging in this behavior haven't invested a significant amount of time and effort into formulating a solution to the problem of being banned for bad behavior.

The reason people are gaming the system is precisely because they HAVE outsmarted it, and until an admission of the facts is made, which is that the methods employed are organized, sophisticated, and effective, then all of this is really just a bunch of cry-babies on a forum whining that they didn't think of it first as far as I'm concerned.

[Jhanaka]

Hello Secondplanet.

Your reasoning is very sound on removing the ability to make alphabet soup names, as I call them; I will pass this suggestion on up, for you, thanks!

There are just a couple counterpoints as to why this may not work, though, so please let me explain.

For one, the RMT customers will just go back to using "normal" names. When this plague first started in our game, they used patterns in their name, like a color/fruit combo, Redapple for example. While those in the party had similar names, they were all still "real" names, so to speak. If we put in filters to prevent the keyboardbasing names, they would just go back to making "real" names and the problem does not stop.

I also worked as a GM for another company where the GM staff had to approve each name the customer's choose. I would like to say that stopped the RMT customers, but it did not.

I have been with you guys from Beta (though my name was changed) so I have seen how the RMTs have developed and adapted. It is an interesting beast and one with many heads, as was pointed out, but cannot be stopped easily. The best thing you guys can do is just continue your reports by either in game or through the email I provided. Trust me, my GMs do not mind as that is why we are here, to handle your concerns or make sure they are passed onto the right folks who can help.

I hope you guys have a good evening.

-SGM Jhanaka

[Sarick]

I understand that the heart of your post is good-natured, but I simply can't ignore that it contains two blatantly incorrect insinuations of truth which are not fact based.

First, your post follows the general assumption throughout this thread which is incorrect. These are not trial accounts. Trial accounts have a yellow and green badge by their name that cannot be removed under any circumstances.



Dear keyboard slam lvl 60 bst with a name I can't spell. You sound very angry about the information I posted. Have some courage and USE your real character name. Also, please understand the current system is broken. If solutions are created to fix the problems by bringing them to the attention of the developers so be it. Even if trial accounts are very limited that doesn't mean people aren't abusing the game in the way I mentioned.


They are a product of Square practically giving this game away for free.

So basically, another version of a trial account for a few pennies more? After some thought I decided to add this. The type of trail accounts I was thinking about where not the ones with the little flags on them as much as the ones where people pay for a few codes like you said and get the added FREE 30 day unrestricted subscriptions IE another type of trial.

It really doesn't matter how they exploit the game it only matters if nothing gets done to fix it.

Oh yea I saw a group of them in BLM reverse chain alliances Attawa Chasm today by the. Ironclad. I didn't report them because it's MORE of a hassle to report them then it is to ignore them. If SE wants to handle THESE RMT they need to kick it up a few gears with STF and investigate cases in a timely manner. Sometimes it's obvious whats going on.

[saevel]

Thank you SGM Jhanaka for your time and explanations. We appreciate you doing this for us. Continue the good work and have a good day ^^

[Sarick]

I have been with you guys from Beta (though my name was changed) so I have seen how the RMTs have developed and adapted. It is an interesting beast and one with many heads, as was pointed out, but cannot be stopped easily. The best thing you guys can do is just continue your reports by either in game or through the email I provided. Trust me, my GMs do not mind as that is why we are here, to handle your concerns or make sure they are passed onto the right folks who can help.

I hope you guys have a good evening.

-SGM Jhanaka

Jhankaka, I appreciate your comments, the most important factor is the response to obvious activity. If someone is floating in the sky or hovering inside a mountain etc and a player reports this they shouldn't be there 2 to a day hours later. When players report these things most of the time SE might as well allow it because by the time anything appears to get done the damage is already there.

On another note: What does SE think about MOVING all the RMT captured accounts to their own locked server?

[Mirage]

Then they would start new accounts on the regular servers. It would be no different than what banning does today.

[Sarick]

Then they would start new accounts on the regular servers. It would be no different than what banning does today.

This is true but they'd still be moved off the servers. The speed at which they are caught and taken care of is what will take it's toll.

[Mirage]

They'd need the same amount of investigation to find out if they are really RMT, and it's finding the evidence that takes time, not banning/moving. I'm sure they canban thousands of accounts in just seconds after they have flagged them as confirmed RMT accounts.

[Sarick]

They'd need the same amount of investigation to find out if they are really RMT, and it's finding the evidence that takes time, not banning/moving. I'm sure they canban thousands of accounts in just seconds after they have flagged them as confirmed RMT accounts.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and smells like a duck. It's probably a DUCK.

[Jhanaka]

Hello Folks,

In some of the posts, you mentioned that there are trial accounts that are abusing the Auction House system. I passed this information onto our Special Task Force and they are interested in this possible exploit.

What I would ask is that if there are customers who you suspect to be using this possible exploit to submit a /helpdesk call. In the detail box place the following:

Trial Account RMT AH Abuse: PlayerName

I will instruct my GM team to pass these names onto to the SGM team; we will then forward the names to our Special Task Force. Please do not post the names in this thread as it may be looked at as a rule violation.

We understand that some people have said this is not possible, but we want to ensure that there are no exploits to be found; it never hurts to double check.

Thank you, again.

SGM Jhanaka

[Sarick]

Hello Folks,

In some of the posts, you mentioned that there are trial accounts that are abusing the Auction House system. I passed this information onto our Special Task Force and they are interested in this possible exploit.

What I would ask is that if there are customers who you suspect to be using this possible exploit to submit a /helpdesk call. In the detail box place the following:

Trial Account RMT AH Abuse: PlayerName

I will instruct my GM team to pass these names onto to the SGM team; we will then forward the names to our Special Task Force. Please do not post the names in this thread as it may be looked at as a rule violation.

We understand that some people have said this is not possible, but we want to ensure that there are no exploits to be found; it never hurts to double check.

Thank you, again.

SGM Jhanaka

Jhanaka, it's not REALLY trial accounts as SE calls them. The trial accounts are the ones where players buy codes online for pennies and get about a month of full access. I don't think it's the characters with those little flags over their heads.


We understand that some people have said this is not possible, but we want to ensure that there are no exploits to be found; it never hurts to double check.

Speaking from experience on other hacked online MMOS players exploited flaws in the clients. If the trial limitations are based on client alterable flags the limits placed on them are moot. I mean if the local client simply turns off menu options on accounts that have trial flags YOU HAVE A SERIOUS security risk. To put it simple If the lock isn't server side it might as well not even be there. I don't know if this is the case or not but it'd be the first thing to check from a security perspective.

[Trisscar]

Hello Folks,

In some of the posts, you mentioned that there are trial accounts that are abusing the Auction House system. I passed this information onto our Special Task Force and they are interested in this possible exploit.

What I would ask is that if there are customers who you suspect to be using this possible exploit to submit a /helpdesk call. In the detail box place the following:

Trial Account RMT AH Abuse: PlayerName

I will instruct my GM team to pass these names onto to the SGM team; we will then forward the names to our Special Task Force. Please do not post the names in this thread as it may be looked at as a rule violation.

We understand that some people have said this is not possible, but we want to ensure that there are no exploits to be found; it never hurts to double check.

Thank you, again.

SGM Jhanaka

Half the player posters here would probably flag me as being suspicious. I do a lot of VWNM and Aby stuff and build cruor on my one and only active character, then turn around and convert it into Gil which I use to buy currencies (to be more precise, I solo farm and purchase currencies to finish incomplete stacks) for my first ever Relic.

So I have two suggestions.

First, be careful you aren't banning legitimate players who might not be able to make money in other ways.

Second, find ways to help legitimate players to make Gil. Seriously, this is is one of the most annoying aspects of the game that has been a deterrent for me and other players like me. I'm glad cruor exists to be exploited in this fashion, otherwise I'd still be stuck at less then 500,000 Gil.

[Demon6324236]

Easier gil is to make, the higher the prices will become for the expensive things. Basically if you have 10k, and the uber gear you want is 100k, you have 10%, however with easy to get gil you have 1Mil, while your uber gear is 100Mil. This is at least how I see it.

[Zagen]

Easier gil is to make, the higher the prices will become for the expensive things. Basically if you have 10k, and the uber gear you want is 100k, you have 10%, however with easy to get gil you have 1Mil, while your uber gear is 100Mil. This is at least how I see it.
You also have to factor supply and demand. For example Fire Geodes, less people burning exp in Abyssea or working on fire trials who need gil (despite needing the geodes down the line themselves) all means smaller supply while the demand hasn't changed much.
_______________________________________________________________________________

Based on the tells I get gil in the last few months has gone from $8/1M to $6/1M. You could make the logical assumption that because gil is so easy to make for RMT they are dropping the prices to increase appeal. There's also the logic that people have finally realized how easy it is to make gil and are now using said methods. Then there's the logic that because a majority of the uber gear is Rare/Ex and few people are selling, and those that are run the risk of being accused of cheating by others (at least as it related to NNI).

All this really adds up to at this point for me is RMT may still be here but the game has reached a point where their effects are minimal at best. Now all I'm worried about are legit players getting caught in the mix because they converted too many Choboco Blinkers at one time, or some other stupid mix up.

[Demon6324236]

Imo there is a clear sign when RMTs are doing blinker runs, when they are naked, randomly named, and in large numbers. Large numbers are the easiest sign, no normal player really does this, random names are more common, just because some people do choose names that are not normal, and most common is naked player characters. I agree RMTs have little effect most likely, but I doubt many players are caught in the crossfire, and if players are being caught up in it like that, then SE should be a bit better on investigating things.

[Llana_Virren]

Imo there is a clear sign when RMTs are doing blinker runs, when they are naked, randomly named, and in large numbers. Large numbers are the easiest sign, no normal player really does this, random names are more common, just because some people do choose names that are not normal, and most common is naked player characters. I agree RMTs have little effect most likely, but I doubt many players are caught in the crossfire, and if players are being caught up in it like that, then SE should be a bit better on investigating things.

-Any- legitimate player doing a blinker run will be naked- you need the max available inventory space to make it time-efficient.

[Trisscar]

Easier gil is to make, the higher the prices will become for the expensive things. Basically if you have 10k, and the uber gear you want is 100k, you have 10%, however with easy to get gil you have 1Mil, while your uber gear is 100Mil. This is at least how I see it.

More evidence that the average player doesn't know the first thing about economics.

People can't spend money if they can't make money. That simple.

[Llana_Virren]

More evidence that the average player doesn't know the first thing about economics.

People can't spend money if they can't make money. That simple.

The key factor here is the unspoken suggestion that AFK leechers are all RMTs, whereas everyone earns Cruor (ie. Gil) magically while only one person actually "earns it." This dynamic is what throws economic principles out the window, because gil (money) is being artificially generated and injected directly into the economy.

Unlike in the real world, where systematic checks are in place to control the injection of "new money" into circulation, this does not exist in FFXI. The question becomes "which system is better?"

The system where Gil is hard to come by and uber gear is expensive, or
the system where Gil is easy to come by, and uber gear is proportionally more expensive?

[Demon6324236]

More evidence that the average player doesn't know the first thing about economics.

People can't spend money if they can't make money. That simple.

People can't spend money if the things they wish to spend money on are still to expensive due to increases in price that were caused by increases in overall money that is circulating between players.

[Trisscar]

The key factor here is the unspoken suggestion that AFK leechers are all RMTs, whereas everyone earns Cruor (ie. Gil) magically while only one person actually "earns it." This dynamic is what throws economic principles out the window, because gil (money) is being artificially generated and injected directly into the economy.

Unlike in the real world, where systematic checks are in place to control the injection of "new money" into circulation, this does not exist in FFXI. The question becomes "which system is better?"

The system where Gil is hard to come by and uber gear is expensive, or
the system where Gil is easy to come by, and uber gear is proportionally more expensive?

No. The problem the others have is more to the fact that now easy to come by for the average player, so more people can afford the more expensive gear. This means that these others can't lord over that gear the average player wouldn't have been able to afford in years past like it used to be.

That's all it really is. Pissant ex-elitists who are bitter because they're now no more better than average players.

[Trisscar]

People can't spend money if the things they wish to spend money on are still to expensive due to increases in price that were caused by increases in overall money that is circulating between players.

Higher prices are indicative of a healthy economy. It means that the intended customer (like, for example, me) has enough money that they feel comfortable spending more of it.

I dread the advent of SoA because it likely means a return to when money was a pain in the ass to get.

[Nawesemo]

Higher prices are indicative of a healthy economy. It means that the intended customer (like, for example, me) has enough money that they feel comfortable spending more of it.

I dread the advent of SoA because it likely means a return to when money was a pain in the ass to get.

O.o um.. uh... Lol tell that to the Iranians.

[Trisscar]

O.o um.. uh... Lol tell that to the Iranians.

Can we leave real world politics out of this, please?

Also, maybe you can make a relevant argument about what you have against average player being able to make money.

[Nawesemo]

Can we leave real world politics out of this, please?

Also, maybe you can make a relevant argument about what you have against average player being able to make money.

There is nothing average about being able to duo box, fell cleave solo with a pocket whm, or run around with 16 level 30 players in tow. When you say average you need to mean average, the ones who play max 3-4 hours a day, and them being able to farm 1mil gil, and litterally double the amount of gil an item that in 2010 would cost. Higher costing items , doubling in price in months periods of time is a sign of rampant inflation, price gouging, and an unhealthy economy. But hey, its a game, its economy can have these things AND be healthy.... Awesome /sarcasm.

[Zagen]

There is nothing average about being able to duo box, fell cleave solo with a pocket whm, or run around with 16 level 30 players in tow. When you say average you need to mean average, the ones who play max 3-4 hours a day, and them being able to farm 1mil gil, and litterally double the amount of gil an item that in 2010 would cost. Higher costing items , doubling in price in months periods of time is a sign of rampant inflation, price gouging, and an unhealthy economy. But hey, its a game, its economy can have these things AND be healthy.... Awesome /sarcasm.

Imagine when they figure out the average player can be used to farm them 3+ times what they get from cleaving just by setting up cruor burn parties.

Just a bit of fun random facts for "average" players:
In 2-3 hours (factoring in 1 hour setup) of cruor burn partying they'd net 1-1.5 mil gil after conversion.
In 2 hours they could have farmed 1-2mil gil worth of currency in Dynamis. (Edit: based on Bismarck rates)

[Demon6324236]

I have no problem with the average player making money, I am simply trying to point out how doing that isn't going to actually help anything IMO.

[Trisscar]

I have no problem with the average player making money, I am simply trying to point out how doing that isn't going to actually help anything IMO.

Banning RMTs is a lot like arresting and deporting illegal aliens. Sure, it looks good on the news and it makes it seem as its doing some good but it really doesn't in the long run. The way to really disable RMTs is to make it to where their potential customers don't have as much temptation to use their services.

Good way to do that is to increase the ways that legitimate players can proficiently make money.

You know, like making it possible to cruor farm for Gil.

If you were right about the economy you'd see prices continually spiral out of control. But you don't. The prices have inflated, sure, but they are stable at the moment.

[Llana_Virren]

Higher prices are indicative of a healthy economy. It means that the intended customer (like, for example, me) has enough money that they feel comfortable spending more of it.

I dread the advent of SoA because it likely means a return to when money was a pain in the ass to get.

Money will never be a pain to get unless they adjusted the blinkers, because that is the easiest method of earning gil out there.

On the flip side, high prices are also indicative of inflation which, if unmanaged, can also collapse an economy.

[Trisscar]

Money will never be a pain to get unless they adjusted the blinkers, because that is the easiest method of earning gil out there.

On the flip side, high prices are also indicative of inflation which, if unmanaged, can also collapse an economy.

Considering that prices have stabilized and doesn't seem to be spiraling out of control, I think it's safe to say that the worst case scenario isn't coming to pass.

[Sarick]

This might be a start as It won't effect the average player. We can still have our blinkers but the RMT's will have a much harder time converting because they need to finish limits breakers etc first. I did want to point out that the level 79 gear options would be abused if blinkers got restricted by level.

1. Raise the cap for the mission to level 75.
2. Make the level 79 armors unsellable.

Trophies allow players to buy gear that can't be sold to NPC's this gear can't be npced. The level 79 crurur bought gears it could still be traded or sold at the auction house if they where not bought by npcs.

The chocobo escort mission can't really be done by a level 50 so it shouldn't be available. Also the level 79 armors can't be equipped by a level 30-50 so what other reason would they buy them for? Last since the full set of lvl 79 gear is next to nothing to purchase why are they still available as NPC fodder?

By the time they became capable of converting crurur the STF would of had time to investigate the IP addresses against known RMT IP's or activities. If they do get busted after the limits it will be much more effective then the current system. Currently they automatically gain access to the conversion when they can enter abby.

Too the poster that said dynamis was a better form of money. I think (demon) that mentioned making 1.2 million in an hour. This is most likly solo where you get all the loot. If you was to add a few friends and split currency at the end your profits would plummet even though you can kill faster. Please understand this, by doing a reverse chain I think it makes about 432 thousand gil an hour per person. this amount is NOT SPLIT but multiplied by the group size. If the group is an 18 person alliance they're making plenty more then a same sized group in dynamis.

Conclusion, in dynamis a smaller party makes more profit then Abby but, in abby a larger group can make more then dynamis.

[SNK]

Considering that prices have stabilized and doesn't seem to be spiraling out of control, I think it's safe to say that the worst case scenario isn't coming to pass.

It did once a long time ago.

[Trisscar]

It did once a long time ago.

Indeed, I was around for it. I doubt it's ever going to happen again.