Blue mage treasure hunter trait is too overpowered

[Malthar]

Ok, ok, before the flames start burning my behind hear my argument.

SE stated that the hierarchy for treasure hunter is as follows:

Thief
Ranger
Thief job support
Other jobs

From what I can tell blue mage falls in the other jobs category. Blue mage can attain TH2 from the augmented tarutaru sash and the treasure hunter job trait by setting the correct spells.

Beastmaster also falls in the other jobs category. I'm assuming that's the official reasoning for reducing th from Falcorr and Yuley from TH3 to TH1.

Now, why is blue mage special to get TH2? If blue mage can attain TH2 from gear and job traits then beastmaster should be able to also attain TH2 through the thief pet and gear.

Now here's a proposed solution. Either take blue mage off the tarutaru sash or introduce a new piece of gear that gives pet treasure hunter +1. I'm not one for gimping one job to elevate another, so my preferred solution is to introduce a new piece of gear offering pet: treasure hunter +1.

It's the only way to be sure.

[selond]

I REALLY hope your trolling bro..... because like..... wow if your not.... pleases say your trolling

[Malthar]

No, I'm not trolling. There's this big hubub about bst having th and no-one considered the fact that blu can get th2, the same as subbing /thf, by just equipping some spells and wearing a tarutaru sash. How is that balanced? SE, themselves, said the order of TH is to be:

Thief
Ranger
Thief job support
Other jobs

Nowhere in there does it say blue mage is to be above other jobs. So I put this to you. Fine, let blue mage keep th1 by setting spells and have the ability to have th2 by also wearing the tarutaru sash, but don't be hypocritical of bst wanting the same thing using gear. DipperYuley and Falcorr posses a native th1 trait. Beastmaster should be given the same opportunity as blue mage and be able to equip a piece of gear that gives pet th+1.

Please reread my original post. I'm not advocating that SE take blue mage off the tarutaru sash, though that is one of the suggested solutions. I'm promoting the idea of giving bst a piece of gear that gives pet th+1 just so things can be balanced.

[Metaking]

ok the question is what would you give up for it, if se made the penalty a lingering effect on your pet, -all pets job traits + stout servent for 1min? remember blu loses a lot of spell points setting th1, and can make you lose alot of dmg potential when you have caped gear haste DW2 and DW3 are a big difference in dmg potential, and generally blus are sacrificing that for that th1, not to mention general for us things like dynamis are much much riskier , that extra point of th is there to make us take that risk you bst are unwilling to take. Of all the jobs that really have a chance at dynamis blu has the lowest natural evasion(c-) but i dont cry at the nins(A+) dnc(B+) and thfs(A+), know your advantage and push it, and before you say i know nothing of bst i already did my time as a bst in dynamis and simply noticed i could make more currency on blu tho if something went wrong i was in the penalty box for 5 mins, which almost never happen on bst. O and ps before you say it isn't, we all know this is about dynamis.

sorry i had to be that guy but yea 90% of the blus who see your post probably would have written something much much more hateful i mean really your post is up there with like a rdm posting on drk forum its not fair for them to get fast cast helm(provenace one) with as much fast cast as there af hat

[Caketime]

Damage potential means little when farming. We're rocking a Taru sash, after all.

I disagree with any sort of nerf to BLU for the same reason I disagreed with the one to BST. It is simply not deserved.

[Cabalabob]

We give up so much for the TH spells and the additions from the sash. We give up 12 set points, for Amorphic spikes which is weaker than quad continuum which is set for DW, charged whisker which unless you're in aby is rubbish, and everyone's grudge which sucks for farming. Then we also give up one of our highest haste pieces aswell as whatever other benefits are on it. For TH. Blu sacrifices all that for TH2 and you're suggesting that extra TH should just be THROWN back onto bst for no cost to them cause it's unfair that BST only gets TH1 naturally?

I'd say that's still under /Thf seeing as we give up quite a bit more for sash and spells version than we do for simply subbing thf

[Metaking]

well my counter is more to the fact he says there is not a balance, which i say he is wrong
Bst = extremely safe farming (gotta get swarmed by like 3-5 dc's before your pet is even remotely in danger)
blu = highest single drop potential (kill speed + th2)
thf = safe farming(massive evasion) + best per mob drops(th7 tho slow kill rate)
Dnc = safe farming(less than thf but still really high evasion)+ can easily lock subjob and farm white procs to beat even a lucky blu on overall currency a run
nin = ok fine nins have a right to be upset with the balance job ability spam hurts there main advantage of massive dw and i think because of evasion job traits actually have lower evasion than a dnc out the door
pup = actually i hear farm currency rather well no personal experience but if any job should get pet th it would be them, there pets are considerably more....... mortal than bst pets >.>;

[Prothscar]

Kind of hilarious for a few reasons. Namely, you're not comparing the strengths/differences of the jobs or their methods of acquiring Treasure Hunter.

-I have to give up a large amount, nearly 1/3, of my blue magic set points on mostly worthless spells just to gain TH1.

-I cannot simply walk into Falcdor. That is, I can't just summon my friendly neighborhood hippogryph, who has treasure hunter, sic it into a pack of 2000 DC mobs, and throw biscuits at him now and again. No. I have to take a measured approach to combat and pull carefully, because despite having a large amount of sleeps and stuns enough DC mobs will be capable of overwhelming me. This is, imo, BST's biggest strength, it's easy to get into and survive on comparative to other jobs. Cost:Reward or Effort:Reward, whichever you want to look at as the most deciding factor in a situation like this, BLU certainly pays for the extra tier of TH.

-Would I be opposed to BST getting an item similar to Taru sash? No. Just make it as difficult to get, at least. While AoE burning or just regular Gold Box farming in Abyssea - La Theine may not sound all that daunting, tell that to those of us such as myself who spent at least a cumulative 72 hours getting ours.

-Including the words "overpowered" and "imbalanced" in this setting is kinda funny, just wanted to say that before I wrap this up. I'd also suggest you direct your hate mail more toward WHM, who can get TH3 by subbing THF and wearing Tarutaru sash for minimal to no losses to their effectiveness when farming Dynamis.

[Malthar]

What you give up for that th is not at issue. What is is the fact that blue mage can reach th2 without subbing /thf. That was the major butthurt the entire community had about bst.

Plus, if you have an almace, which most blu's do, you barely use any spells farming dynamis with the exception of sudden lunge and dream flower.

[Cabalabob]

What you give up for that th is not at issue. What is is the fact that blue mage can reach th2 without subbing /thf. That was the major butthurt the entire community had about bst.

Plus, if you have an almace, which most blu's do, you barely use any spells farming dynamis with the exception of sudden lunge and dream flower.

It's quite obvious you've never played Blu, you don't just set spells for the spells you set them for the traits and 12 points is a lot of space to take up out of our traits, frankly in a situation where it's ok to set TH and use the sash it would be just as safe and easy to use /Thf and the sash for TH3

And yes, what we give up has everything to do with it the reason bst got gimped was cause it was reaching th2 and 3 without giving up anything and didn't even have to /Thf. Blu has to give up stuff to the point where /Thf is just more effective

[Malthar]

I do play blu and your argument is invalid. You don't have to have all the traits if you're going to do something as simple as farm dynamis. And as for bst not giving up anything, that argument is also invalid. You give up your choice of pets if you want TH and must stick with the ones that have TH.

[selond]

Yes, you must give up your choice of nigh unkillable pets (if you know what your doing). while blus must give up 12 valuable set points just to ACTIVATE th1 and then give up our highest haste slot of equipment for th2. by my count a Blue mage is giving up 2 very important things to your one trivial at best pet selection. Lets not forget that this pet needs to have atleast 4 Dc mobs on it to be in any danger what so ever. Hell, even with almace we cant take on more then 3 Dc mobs at a time if we want to be anywhere near efficient. How can you even call yourself a blu if you think those 12 pts ALONE are not important?

So once again are you trolling? because like...... wow if you are'nt

[Malthar]

Still irrelevant. Blue's having access to th2 without subbing /thf does not fit SE's hierarchy.


SE stated that the hierarchy for treasure hunter is as follows:

Thief
Ranger
Thief job support
Other jobs

[selond]

so lemme get this straight..... because SE posted a hierarchy of who gets higher levels of TH NATURALLY with no gear on that enhances said effect, Blue mages TH1 should be nerfed because bsts pet that had a rather hight level of th was nerfed right? that list should probably look more like this anyway :

Thief at Number one.
Ranger at number two.
ANY job Subbing thief at number three.
Blue mage When TH is set at number four (and so ends the list of jobs that get it naturally)
ANY JOB wearing a tarutaru sash at the VERY END OF THE hierarchy.

To be honest your complaint sounds more like butthurt that bst cant get a higher level of TH on there PET. my suggestion...... GET OVER IT

[Malthar]

First of all, I SPECIFICALLY said not to nerf blue mage. Instead, I suggested adding gear that gives pet treasure hunter +1.

[Mayoyama]

First of all, I SPECIFICALLY said not to nerf blue mage. Instead, I suggested adding gear that gives pet treasure hunter +1.

You really are going the wrong way about it then... most of your argument so far has sounded pro-BLU TH nerf. Hell.. the topic title alone is screaming PLEASE NERF BLU TH

[Malthar]

Let me repost the message for you because obviously you failed reading comprehension.


Blue mage treasure hunter trait is too overpowered
Ok, ok, before the flames start burning my behind hear my argument.

SE stated that the hierarchy for treasure hunter is as follows:

Thief
Ranger
Thief job support
Other jobs

From what I can tell blue mage falls in the other jobs category. Blue mage can attain TH2 from the augmented tarutaru sash and the treasure hunter job trait by setting the correct spells.

Beastmaster also falls in the other jobs category. I'm assuming that's the official reasoning for reducing th from Falcorr and Yuley from TH3 to TH1.

Now, why is blue mage special to get TH2? If blue mage can attain TH2 from gear and job traits then beastmaster should be able to also attain TH2 through the thief pet and gear.

Now here's a proposed solution. Either take blue mage off the tarutaru sash or introduce a new piece of gear that gives pet treasure hunter +1. I'm not one for gimping one job to elevate another, so my preferred solution is to introduce a new piece of gear offering pet: treasure hunter +1.

It's the only way to be sure.

The bolded statement says it all.

[Cabalabob]

You really are going the wrong way about it then... most of your argument so far has sounded pro-BLU TH nerf. Hell.. the topic title alone is screaming PLEASE NERF BLU TH

It is funny he comes to the Blu forum posting Blu TH is too overpowered (is he expecting us to cheer, like and support this view?) which is quite clearly a hint in the direction of nerf Blu, then claims he is actually looking for support for pet: TH gear. If you're looking to support pet TH gear THEN GO TO THE PET TH GEAR THREAD AND SUPPORT IT! Don't come
to a Blu forum asking for Blu nerfs....

[Malthar]

It is concerning both, but more precisely that blue mage can reach th2 without subbing /th while no other job can.

I know that you're trying to protect your job, just like beastmasters tried to protect their job, but according to SE it wasn't balanced and blue mage being the only job to reach th2 without subbing /th is also unbalanced and goes against SE's proclamation of treasure hunter order.

If Arcon were fair and just he would support this topic, because according to him TH is very powerful, but he has yet to chime in.

[Cabalabob]

Ok I'll tell you what's so special about BLU that lets it get TH but after you have to tell me what's so special about BST that makes it deserve it? Cause I think they are lucky to have it at all.

A major part of Blu since day one is the fact that it mimics other jobs through its selection of spells traits and gear. Having TH upgrade from gilfinder is BLU's way of being a mini Thf, same way having DA is its way of mimicking a war, having counter is its way of mimicking a mnk having nukes is its way of mimicking a Mage ect.

As for bst, classically know as a tanking or dding pet job based on setup, the pets that get TH being a ladybug and a hyppogryph. Ladybug's... A bug. No claim to TH there. A hyppogryph, classically known as a steed to a knight or sorcerer, no claim to TH there. What makes you think bst has as much of a claim to TH as a job designed to mimic other jobs?

[Metaking]

no unbalanced is the fact bst pets don't need a super weapon to let there pets break pdt cap, and can do it with very little loss to there own output, only way i could see to make both sides happy is if you got a pet th item that had latent effect th+1 that only worked during run wild ^^/

[Malthar]

Talk about hypocritical! A blue mage is in no way shape or form a thief, but pets whose jobs are thf's qualify for the TH3. That's why jug pets deserve the traits of their jobs more than blue mage. Further, this isn't about bst. If I wanted to make a post about bst I'd make a post in the bst forums.

[Metaking]

well actually blu would be a little bit of almost all jobs in this games cannon rember were a prison of souls we HAVE your pets souls for instance >.> . now if were going to act like how bst and blu work in other ff games, remember this bst is generally a very hard to use weak job that makes there pets do everything, in this ff your a pretty fucking solid dd(A hand axe skill, blus dont even have that in sword) without your pet and you want a pet = to your level with all the stats and traits of a thf = to your level and still want to be a solid dd at the same time yes? ...... yea that's not going to happen, maby if se nurfed your combat ability down to say C combat skills and dropped you to light dd gear only, then maby you would have a case to cry over the minor nurf your pets got, if you really wanna fight for better game balance go fight se over how bad off smn got it, seance in every other FF they appear in smns are one of the most powerful jobs you can get.

[Babekeke]

Now here's a proposed solution. Either take blue mage off the tarutaru sash or introduce a new piece of gear that gives pet treasure hunter +1. I'm not one for gimping one job to elevate another, so my preferred solution is to introduce a new piece of gear offering pet: treasure hunter +1.

It's the only way to be sure.



Talk about hypocritical! ~ This isn't about bst. If I wanted to make a post about bst I'd make a post in the bst forums.

Oh, really?

[Mayoyama]

Let me repost the message for you because obviously you failed reading comprehension.

Either take blue mage off the tarutaru sash or introduce a new piece of gear that gives pet treasure hunter +1.

The bolded statement says it all.

Ya bolded part does say it all... your saying "if BST cant achieve TH2 with gear.. why should blu??"

Nothing wrong with my comprehension at all

[Malthar]

Ok there Mittens. Take what you need and dump the rest. The world is just an etch-a-sketch, after all.

[Nawesemo]

So, s.e should lock reward when using a thf pet? It's brilliant!!! I like it.

Isn't jumping to conclusions cool? >:\

[Afania]

well my counter is more to the fact he says there is not a balance, which i say he is wrong
Bst = extremely safe farming (gotta get swarmed by like 3-5 dc's before your pet is even remotely in danger)
blu = highest single drop potential (kill speed + th2)
thf = safe farming(massive evasion) + best per mob drops(th7 tho slow kill rate)
Dnc = safe farming(less than thf but still really high evasion)+ can easily lock subjob and farm white procs to beat even a lucky blu on overall currency a run
nin = ok fine nins have a right to be upset with the balance job ability spam hurts there main advantage of massive dw and i think because of evasion job traits actually have lower evasion than a dnc out the door
pup = actually i hear farm currency rather well no personal experience but if any job should get pet th it would be them, there pets are considerably more....... mortal than bst pets >.>;

So many wrong info in above statement.......

To correct some of the info on above statement, from what I've know:

BLU has even safer farming than majority of jobs there, due to 9+ shadow and AoE sleep x2. BLU can also swarm by 5+ DC mob, sleep them all, log out to lose hate if you don't want to fight them all. It's fairly easy to deal with massive link on BLU, but not so much on DNC and THF. If DNC THF mass aggro DCs, they're dead pretty soon too without shadow and AoE sleep(unless THF flee/hide etc). I did not say this myself, many DNC and THF dyna soloer told me they often had hard time dealing with massive link too.

Evasion rating isn't what makes it safe or not, on DC it may make a bit difference, but majority of time it's not what determined how safe it is to solo dyna. Evasion has a cap, even at capped evasion you're gonna get hit 1 out of every 5 hit. Imagine how fast you lose HP when there are 5~7 mobs attacking you on the same time. If DNC THF mass aggro 7 mobs, even at capped evasion you're gonna get hit fairly often still. Fat chance is that BLU will survive better than DNC THF in such situations.

It's fairly easy to cap evasion on EP mobs or close to cap, so C rank evasion(plus evasion job trait from /DNC) doesn't matter on BLU, cuz you'll be capping or close to capping evasion on EP anyways. Once you can cap/close to cap evasion on C rank skill level, it doesn't matter if your evasion rating is C or B or A or S, because you will evade 4 hit out of 5 times no matter what level your evasion is.

You shouldn't be solo farming DC, and if you really do DC, the long stun duration from sudden lunge also makes it safer than pure evasion jobs.

Another thing about evasion is, NIN/DNC has higher evasion than DNC and THF, it's in fact, most evasive job in this game. So saying NIN has lower evasion than DNC is incorrect based on current info.

Put gear/merit/race difference aside, a THF/DNC has 424 evasion skill and evasion bonus V(+60), based on bg-wiki's info, 1 evasion skill=0.9 evasion, which equals to 381 evasion. 441 evasion total.

A DNC/THF or DNC/00 has 404 skill, plus evasion bonus IV+ 48, and closed position merit +15, so total of 426

NIN/DNC has 417 skill, plus evasion bouns II from SJ+ 22, Yonin for +30, and Kurayami for -30 acc, that's like 457. Even without Kurayami but just yonin, it still has higher eva than DNC, with Kurayami it beats THF.

However, what makes NIN bad for dyna solo isn't evasion rating, it's in fact, it has no TH.

As for PUP, the advantage of PUP is, PUP can get TH2 while farming in dyna, cuz they can proc JA with /THF, other job pretty much has to /DNC to proc JA.

Also it's commonly believed that DNC/00 has lower coin gain in the long run due to lack of TH. So DNC solo is DNC/THF only.

So to summerize the advantage/disadvantage of each dyna solo job:
BLU/DNC: Has TH2, can AoE sleep, stun lock mobs, plauge to avoid TP moves, access to all 3 type of proc in case it's needed, fast kill for both TE and the mob. But the down side is that you need gear to gain TH2 access, which not everyone has.

BST/DNC: Has lower skill and gear requirement, but only TH1. Need to use items and spend gil. Faster proc than many other jobs there. Ability to hold 2 mobs.


THF/DNC: Higher TH than other jobs, but you pretty much need elite gear such as Mandau to kill fast enough. Has flee/hide etc, but other wise not very easy to deal with mass aggro.

DNC/THF: TH2, decent killing speed, but not as good as BLU and BST to deal with mass aggro.

PUP/THF: TH2 too, low competition on camp, good dmg output.

Any other job, such as MNK NIN SAM etc, shouldn't be consider as dyna solo job because you can't get TH.

Is BLU TH2 overpowered in dyna? In practice, 3 jobs(THF PUP DNC) I listed above can get TH2 but doesn't require any gear grind, while BLU TH2 needs gear grind. So how does that overpower? Although BST only got TH1, you also have faster proc, ability to hold 2 mobs, less gear requirement to farm efficiently etc, the result is, BST with just TH1 isn't really inferior to jobs with TH2 in terms of efficiency too...majority of players still use BST to farm in dyna. So how does BLU with TH1+1 overpowered when majority of ppl still solo dyna on BST?

In pt situations and outside of dyna, if you need TH, you bring real THF, so it still doesn't matter if BLU has TH2, because BLU will never get invited specifically for TH when THF can do higher TH, and other jobs can TH2 with /THF too.

BLU TH is just fine as it is, TH2 isn't handed to BLU, it requires work and gear grind too, and BLU will suffer from dmg lose by setting TH job trait, it's not like BLU just pop TH2 out of nowhere, and TH2 on BLU really has little importance and almost zero impact to the game/pt setup. If today BLU has access to TH5, then maybe it's a bit overpowered. But TH2? Lol, any job can TH2 with /THF, and nobody invite a job to TH2 it when they can have higher TH from other jobs too.

Any job gets TH2 with /THF, I fail to see how BLU gets TH2 is overpowered.

[Afania]

Still irrelevant. Blue's having access to th2 without subbing /thf does not fit SE's hierarchy.

It still fits hierarchy perfectly. SE said TH is as follows, but didn't say TH hunter hierarchy when gears are being count.

THF
RNG
job/THF
other jobs

BLU with TH job trait still inferior to any job /THF, and only equal, but not superior to any job/THF.

So naked BLU is rank 4, among other jobs.

BLU sacrificing other job trait and spent quite a lot of effort to grind gear is only the same as "THF job support", but didn't beat them. Any job /THF doesn't need to grind gear/sacrifice JT to get rank 3, how does BLU superior to rank3?

Fits SE's hierarchy in every way from what I've seen. It only doesn't fit if it went above THF job support, and entered the range of ranger and THF, but it doesn't.

Now you're going to say, it isn't fair that BLU doesn't need to sacrifice SJ to get TH2, while other job does. However, if you count the fact that you're going to waste 12 set point on a job trait for potentially other job trait on BLU, then it isn't really overpowered.

Say for example, a DNC/THF v.s BLU/WAR with TH job trait set.

Both job gets TH2, so they have equal tier of TH.

DNC has DW 4 job trait, evasion bonus 4, crit-hit attack bonus 3, skill chain bonus 4, conserve TP etc.

BLU/WAR if you set TH, after auto-refresh and DW3 job trait, you won't have much slot left for other job trait if you still want stun/sleep etc. You won't have enough set point for triple attack, evasion bonus(not even tier 1), store TP etc, while other job /THF doesn't sacrifice any job trait for TH. DNC(and other jobs) still keeps their evasion bonus/DW/crit-hit attack job trait etc, while BLU has to sacrifice some of the job trait for TH. You won't have multiple sleeps and so on. SJ slot is just making it up. The result is, BLU doesn't "gain" more job trait compare with other job /THF.

As I said before, if BLU gets TH7 or something, then yes it's overpowered. But how does it overpower if it only gets TH2 from gear, and doesn't went above Thief job support?

If your problem is that BLU gets TH gear but BST doesn't, and it's unfair, then you went to the wrong forum.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

It still fits hierarchy perfectly. SE said TH is as follows, but didn't say TH hunter hierarchy when gears are being count.

THF
RNG
job/THF
other jobs

BLU with TH job trait still inferior to any job /THF, and only equal, but not superior to any job/THF.

So naked BLU is rank 4, among other jobs.

BLU sacrificing other job trait and spent quite a lot of effort to grind gear is only the same as "THF job support", but didn't beat them. Any job /THF doesn't need to grind gear/sacrifice JT to get rank 3, how does BLU superior to rank3?

Fits SE's hierarchy in every way from what I've seen. It only doesn't fit if it went above THF job support, and entered the range of ranger and THF, but it doesn't.

Now you're going to say, it isn't fair that BLU doesn't need to sacrifice SJ to get TH2, while other job does. However, if you count the fact that you're going to waste 12 set point on a job trait for potentially other job trait on BLU, then it isn't really overpowered.

Say for example, a DNC/THF v.s BLU/WAR with TH job trait set.

Both job gets TH2, so they have equal tier of TH.

DNC has DW 4 job trait, evasion bonus 4, crit-hit attack bonus 3, skill chain bonus 4, conserve TP etc.

BLU/WAR if you set TH, after auto-refresh and DW3 job trait, you won't have much slot left for other job trait if you still want stun/sleep etc. You won't have enough set point for triple attack, evasion bonus(not even tier 1), store TP etc, while other job /THF doesn't sacrifice any job trait for TH. DNC(and other jobs) still keeps their evasion bonus/DW/crit-hit attack job trait etc, while BLU has to sacrifice some of the job trait for TH. You won't have multiple sleeps and so on. SJ slot is just making it up. The result is, BLU doesn't "gain" more job trait compare with other job /THF.

As I said before, if BLU gets TH7 or something, then yes it's overpowered. But how does it overpower if it only gets TH2 from gear, and doesn't went above Thief job support?

If your problem is that BLU gets TH gear but BST doesn't, and it's unfair, then you went to the wrong forum.

So basically, by the same though pattern a BST with TH+1 GEAR would be the same.

[Thorbean]

The most hillarious thing is, that this guy is apparently being out farmed on BST by blue mages. Lmao.

Not to mention that BST also gets a minimum of 50% effective evasion vs 2 mobs and 100% vs a single mob (better than 95% cap) as the pet can hold the hate while the BST prances around like an ugly fairy.

Maybe the OP should try actually playing the job and realise that those 60 blue magic points don't go very far at all. Giving up 12 of those for a single trait is a fair trade off in my opinion. If you want TH2 as BST then ask for a pet that removes 25% of your available abilitys while granting TH2. Blue mage loses that much of their available points just for TH1, and you want it simply given to BST for free why?

In the end, you will continue to farm currency on BST, just like 90% of the population, because it's easy and requires no finesse at all. Oh and you also get widescan and are able to target TE's alot faster and safer than the other jobs listed.

Seriously, some people have been completely spoiled.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

The most hillarious thing is, that this guy is apparently being out farmed on BST by blue mages. Lmao.

Not to mention that BST also gets a minimum of 50% effective evasion vs 2 mobs and 100% vs a single mob (better than 95% cap) as the pet can hold the hate while the BST prances around like an ugly fairy.

Maybe the OP should try actually playing the job and realise that those 60 blue magic points don't go very far at all. Giving up 12 of those for a single trait is a fair trade off in my opinion. If you want TH2 as BST then ask for a pet that removes 25% of your available abilitys while granting TH2. Blue mage loses that much of their available points just for TH1, and you want it simply given to BST for free why?

In the end, you will continue to farm currency on BST, just like 90% of the population, because it's easy and requires no finesse at all. Oh and you also get widescan and are able to target TE's alot faster and safer than the other jobs listed.

Seriously, some people have been completely spoiled.

What's funny? BLU is lethal in Dynamis.

[Thorbean]

I'm not disputing that. Whats funny is he is implying BLU TH outshines BST for farming currency. If that was the case then dynamis would be full of BLU. I'm yet to see more BLU than BST in any dynamis. Infact i'm yet to see even 1% of players in dyna as BLU at any 1 time.

Compare:
Pearle BST
Pink blue mage

I suspect the BST will far outshine the BLU piece for piece.

[Metaking]

ok this is targeted at Afania

ok yes we blu do have a 8-10 Blink as in not 100% block rate spell that cost us 1/6th-1/5th of are mana delta and lunge are good tools but wont stop 100% of tp moves (tho im pretty sure we eat alot less than anyone else)

also general speaking if a blu aggros 5 dc mobs a once he is probably dead before switching over to evasion and way before getting dreamflower off, cuz generally that's when were getting te's, and by tarubranigens law when you link more than 3 beast men one is alwase a blm out of sleep range range casting rapaga while getting his ls rdy to up load the pics of your dead body to shadowbook >.>;


also how do you get hit 1 in 5 when evasion cap is like 85-95%, don't remember exactly anymore

reason i mentioned nin is i do see them out there ever so often solo and if se ever made magic procs% up to job ability im sure you would see a ton of them spamming ice and probably whatever there next cheapest tool is completely avoiding the shell currency mobs with dnc sub (aka being able to job ability and magic proc)

on the nin vrs dnc thing, dnc does have more evasion out the door like i said, aka before buffs and debuffs dint wanna mention sense after it im sure someone would have pointed out how badly a blu can destroy a mobs acc(-60blind -20~30 acc down[seen it listed as both at different times]) >.>;


@ Thorbean

well generally bst dont like blus if a bst is hogging all the mobs a blu can easily flip a mob off them and take it, and i hate to admit it, but i have stolen mobs from bst that got my blood boiling, also scary thing is both there primary dynamis pets have near caped evasion themselves as well as like 11% pdt from stout servant not to mention like twice the hp of a galka mnk/mnk for that extra monky goodness <.>

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I'm not disputing that. Whats funny is he is implying BLU TH outshines BST for farming currency. If that was the case then dynamis would be full of BLU. I'm yet to see more BLU than BST in any dynamis. Infact i'm yet to see even 1% of players in dyna as BLU at any 1 time.

Compare:
Pearle BST
Pink blue mage

I suspect the BST will far outshine the BLU piece for piece.

Playing as BLU for currency requires skill, BST in Dynamis is literally -DT or Evasion gear for pet, /ja "Fight" <t>, /ja "Reward" <me> and you're done.

While I don't deny you'll do much better on BST actually playing it properly, the point is BST + Dynamis is basically foolproof this is why it's all BST's rather than jobs like BLU. It doesn't matter what job will farm better Ease will forever be better then a challenge for the majority of players.

[Afania]

ok this is targeted at Afania

ok yes we blu do have a 8-10 Blink as in not 100% block rate spell that cost us 1/6th-1/5th of are mana delta and lunge are good tools but wont stop 100% of tp moves (tho im pretty sure we eat alot less than anyone else)



You don't usually use it when you farm, but it's a good idea to put it up when you do TEs, it helps you to
stay alive a few more sec when you mass aggro DCs, which is enough time to cast AoE sleep.

And yes, you can stun lock a mob completely with sudden lunge, I've tried it when I solo DC all the time. Just cast it right away after you see the msg "it's no longer stunned". As long as you cast it right away after you see that msg, it fires off faster than TP move. If it doesn't work, then the only possible reason is either you click too slow, or your internet lag.






also general speaking if a blu aggros 5 dc mobs a once he is probably dead before switching over to evasion and way before getting dreamflower off, cuz generally that's when were getting te's, and by tarubranigens law when you link more than 3 beast men one is alwase a blm out of sleep range range casting rapaga while getting his ls rdy to up load the pics of your dead body to shadowbook >.>;


I'm guessing you aggro 5 DC mob once because you're farming TE. As I said, if you're going to do a dangerous pull, put shadows up. If you don't put it up, it may be instant death when all 5 mobs hit you at once before you can AoE sleep. But if you have it up, it's well fast enough to AoE sleep them, it still has fairly high block rate and can totally save you before you can react, even if just a few sec. Unless, again, your internet lag or you click too slow, then nothing I can say about it.

I don't know how your statment of aggro 5 mobs at once and instant death came from.....I solo dyna almost daily on BLU, farmed thousands of TEs, and I very rarely die when mass aggro(not saying I never die, sometimes I make mistake/R0 too) to a point that I sometimes don't even bother with putting RR up in dyna. As long as I follow the rule of put shadows up, AoE as soon as possible, and didn't make any additional silly mistake, I don't die even with multiple mob+NM at me, I don't even bother with swapping to evasion set. If I can do it then anyone can.


also how do you get hit 1 in 5 when evasion cap is like 85-95%, don't remember exactly anymore




No. Do you ever try to play a pure evasion job(with no AoE sleep/shadows/flee/hide etc) in dyna solo with no alt? It's more dangerous when you mass aggro DC mobs than you think.

95% is the cap of your "hit rate", hit rate doesn't go above 95%, and doesn't drop below 20%. The info is here:

wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Hit_Rate

It stated clearly on the bottom, that it does not drop below 20%, and it also applies to monster accuracy.

So even if your evasion is super high, that the Monster has lowest hit rate, it still has 20% acc.

So every 5 hit, 1 of them will hit you.

When 7 DC mobs hitting you at once, you drop faster than you can ever deal with on anyjob you can't pet tank or AoE sleep or generate shadows, especially if one of them are nuking job/SMN job. Unless DNC or THF has a way to cure faster than losing HP(which I doubt on DC mobs), you're dead. The only job that can survive in such situations, is pet job like BST, maaaaybe NIN if they can keep shadows up, and BLU with AoE sleep/log out method, or flee/hide on THF and gtfo.

Have you ever try to solo dyna on pure evasion job with no shadow/AoE sleep? Try to run in the middle of DC mob and aggro 7 of them at once, highly doubt you can keep your HP up faster than losing HP, you can't eva everything even with super high evasion.

I have np capping, or close to capping evasion on BLU on EP mob in full DD set and evasion bonus from SJ. The only situation that I noticed a difference is DC mob, but I rarely solo DC mob, even if I do, BLU still has more tools to stay alive than many other jobs.

I also rarely see NIN, lack of TH is pretty make or break. Magic proc sucked, and if you're doing magic proc, BLU is also superior to NIN with low MP/recast/fast cast spell such as foot kick(rotate 2 low cost blu spells and you can spam them forever)while NIN you need to buy tools and lose gil.

When you compare evasion, you should* factor additional JA such as yonin, or else it'd be unfair that you factor closed position on DNC(which is a merit trait, not innate). NIN/DNC with just yonin still > DNC. However, factoring BLU spell is another case because all the hassel to cast them. BLU spell needs MP, and requires additional set point. When you kill mobs one by one in dyna, there are little reason/time to cast acc down spell everytime when each mobs doesn't last very long. It's very inefficient to keep BLU evasion high with 1000 spell cast and gains no real benefit. As I stated before, I have close or capped evasion on EP in full DD set, and I have no need to use additional spells to hit higher evasion, although I admit I have pretty high AGI from TP set already, plus full AGI+evasion merit. Having super high evasion is pointless when you already have decent evasion % with what you already have.

[Afania]

I'm not disputing that. Whats funny is he is implying BLU TH outshines BST for farming currency. If that was the case then dynamis would be full of BLU. I'm yet to see more BLU than BST in any dynamis. Infact i'm yet to see even 1% of players in dyna as BLU at any 1 time.

Compare:
Pearle BST
Pink blue mage

I suspect the BST will far outshine the BLU piece for piece.

I believe(although no real evidence) That if both jobs played properly, BST with just TH1 still pulls a bit ahead of BLU due to pet proc and ability to hold 2 mobs(which allow you to "gain" a lot more extra proc in the long run) in pure currency gain. But I'm not counting pet food/pet items cost on BST since I don't play BST and not sure how much they spent per dyna run. In dyna it really isn't about your killing speed(most of the well geared jobs shouldn't have problem with killing speed), but rather your proc rate. Ability to hold 2 mobs is also quite nice when there are competitions....

Not sure BLU with TH2 would make more gil than BST if pet food/item cost are considered though, when I solo dyna on BLU I don't spend any gil on any items(sometimes don't even bother with RR)

[Suph]

BLU + Tarutaru Sash = TH2
???/THF + Tarutaru Sash = TH3...

How does that go against the Hierarchy?

[Metaking]

well afania as i said (in a kinda round about way) when you normally agro that many beastmen odds are rather high there is a brd blm or rdm in the group only takes a sleepaga stun diaga or posinaga, to ruin your day on blu, tho you are right dreamflower seems to have a decent (ok fine a better than decent chance) chance to resist being interrupted from dmg.

i have done dynamis on thf big agro faj boots have saved my trail tho it was buburimu(think i spelled this right) and there is alot of open space to run away, tho i guess thf getting hit with stun would probably have = death as well, and if it happen in quifm yea nowhere to run so would have been dead

on the blu magic proc thing the real issue would be bleeding your mana dry where as nin tools don't have that problem and ice tools are super cheap(really all nin nuke tools should be as cheap) ice crystal and rock salt >.> is what like 1.3k per 12 syths

and yea i dint wanna because anyone who doesn't regularly play blu probably wont understand how big of a drain any spell over like 50 mana is on blu outside abysea when it(the mob) dies every 30 seconds, blu has high 700(at least i hope galkas have this much) to 900ish( im a taru no mp merits and no +mp in tp gear and i have 913mp) mp without wearing gear directly for mp. Average blu is going to have about 4-6 mp per tic (battery charge +3, af3+2 body +2 ( i tend to use themus body tell my mana gets below like 50%) and auto-refresh trait +1) which means blu is getting about 120 mana(@+6) a min -10 because of battery charges upkeep every 5mins and most blus are also going to keep up haste full time which is a 10.6 mana upkeep over 5 mins so now your at a little bit less than 100 mana a min average ep mob is going to only last like a min or so(assuming you don't get mr takes 50 steps to proc mob) probably going to cast delta once so 28 mana and sudden 2-4 times so lets go with 3, 3x18 =54, so after everything a blu on average would be storing like 17.5 mana a min, mind you that's in a perfect world of averages, without venerable(like travel time between mobs conserve mp ext) which..... yea never happens. sure im missing somthing somthing else, but my shift at work is ending so im going home to bed ^^

[tyrantsyn]

LMFAO and the laugh's just keep on coming.

So the logic is, because this job over here can pull this off, you should give me more TH over here on BST.

Nothing personal to the OP, but this is really grasping at straw's here. I can't even think of the last time I saw a blu in Dyna. I understand what you're trying to say and do. But I think you'd be better off making your fight else where.

You know you really have to blame the Dev's for this. If they would have just come out and said there happy with the balance they've achieved with BST and TH pet's. And decided against the added TH gear, they could have save themselves a lot of trouble. PPL still would have bitch, but at least they wouldn't have contradicted themselves.

[Ihnako]

Why do you guys even reply on a post a BST is posting?
We all know that BST is SEs new SAM and if they don't get what they want they just cry.
In my opinion - pets doesn't deserve to get any jobtrait. That's OP cause BST is the only petjob who's pet got jobtraits by default.

End of story.

BST is still OP as it is right now.
BLU had/has to work for a better TH than TH1
So there is no need to pamper any job for a noreason.

If you have to relie on TH you should go THF.

BST got popular the moment SE introduced pets with TH.
A matter of fact, I don't know a single 24/7-BST that was unhappy before they introduced this crap.
I also didn't knew a single BST who was poor cause of the lack of TH.
So the question is, why do BST cry for a better TH and who are those who cry.
Obviously those who jumped on the wagon when this job became the cashmachine.
Even a Perle-BST can outperform a mediorce/well equiped/played BLU with literaly no risk.

[scaevola]

Without trying to sound like I necessarily support the OP are people seriously arguing that wearing Tarutaru sash for one swing is an actual inconvenience?

Like, really?

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Why do you guys even reply on a post a BST is posting?
We all know that BST is SEs new SAM and if they don't get what they want they just cry.
In my opinion - pets doesn't deserve to get any jobtrait. That's OP cause BST is the only petjob who's pet got jobtraits by default.

End of story.

BST is still OP as it is right now.
BLU had/has to work for a better TH than TH1
So there is no need to pamper any job for a noreason.

If you have to relie on TH you should go THF.

BST got popular the moment SE introduced pets with TH.
A matter of fact, I don't know a single 24/7-BST that was unhappy before they introduced this crap.
I also didn't knew a single BST who was poor cause of the lack of TH.
So the question is, why do BST cry for a better TH and who are those who cry.
Obviously those who jumped on the wagon when this job became the cashmachine.
Even a Perle-BST can outperform a mediorce/well equiped/played BLU with literaly no risk.

lol, deluded is as deluded does.

Seriously, being able to destroy level 75 content or Abyssea at level 99 is NOT over-powered.

[Quetzacoatl]

ABORT THREAD, MAL! ABORT THREAD, GODDAMN IT!

*ahem* Malthar's post does not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the KrazyTrain LS on Leviathan. >.>;;;

[Calatilla]

So this pet:treasure hunter gear the OP wants will work for all pet jobs right? Because I think its unfair my SMN only has TH1 if I use taru sash. :D

[Afania]

well afania as i said (in a kinda round about way) when you normally agro that many beastmen odds are rather high there is a brd blm or rdm in the group only takes a sleepaga stun diaga or posinaga, to ruin your day on blu, tho you are right dreamflower seems to have a decent (ok fine a better than decent chance) chance to resist being interrupted from dmg.



When you aggro BLM RDM etc and they pwn you with stun/sleepga and so on, pure evasion job like DNC isn't more safe than BLU either, you can't evade a nuke or stun, at least you can shadow absorb and stun/sleep it on BLU.

DNC is not more safe than BLU for dealing with mass aggro in any way, end of story. THF is only safe with flee/hide up and gtfo, if you're not flee/hiding it's on the same boat.

When you do magic proc with low MP cost spells, MP isn't an issue. Foot Kick only cost 5 MP, you can get 6~7MP per tic, you should never run out of MP spamming it all day. However, it's still less efficient than JA proc so you shouldn't try magic proc anyways. If you only spam cheap NIN spells like ice, good luck with recast.

I think before you made a comment about something like DNC is better than BLU at dealing with mass aggro and safe in dyna, or NIN is efficient with magic proc farming, you should try it yourself first.

[Metaking]

well per min you would have about 37 mana extra to play with, if your at 7 mp a tic(after other cost already mentioned), question is what you are adding after battery charge (+3) af3+2 (+2) auto refresh(+1), only choices i can think of are are serpentine gloves and boots for (+1)[i pray your not using this choice] or refresh hairpin for (+1) and maybe signet when it has that vampi blood enhancement

also on thf you can survive sleepaga tho stun i already said probably meant you died, also you dont need flee to survive just enough space for movement gear to get you home free, and before you say it, i have survived links like that on thf before, i figure with 12% movment boots dnc gets and once a little distance chocho jig should get them away nicely tho never used dnc in dynamis so i cant say for sure.


and if you went back and even looked further back in are conversation i even said "IF se made magic proc rate = to jobablity proc rate" as is its something like 5% vrs 20%(or is it 15% and weaponskills 20)


na actually you pulled the conversation into mass aggro originally i said it was a safe job to farm on for white procs, high evasion no need for sub for cures or procs, but i like a good debate so i went with it, tho the back and forth is partially my fault as well seance i dint correct it to to just be referring to individual mobs and single nms when i said farming

[Daniel_Hatcher]

So this pet:treasure hunter gear the OP wants will work for all pet jobs right? Because I think its unfair my SMN only has TH1 if I use taru sash. :D

Surely you would still only have TH if it was Pet: Treasure Hunter +1

[Calatilla]

Yea, pet TH+1 + sash = TH2 same as what blu has with trait and sash, same as what bst would have with pet trait and pet TH gear.

Besides, i wasnt actually being serious, its just the way OP was talking about pet TH gear made it sound like they wanted it BST only, like bst is the only job that has a pet.

[Afania]

well per min you would have about 37 mana extra to play with, if your at 7 mp a tic(after other cost already mentioned), question is what you are adding after battery charge (+3) af3+2 (+2) auto refresh(+1), only choices i can think of are are serpentine gloves and boots for (+1)[i pray your not using this choice] or refresh hairpin for (+1) and maybe signet when it has that vampi blood enhancement

also on thf you can survive sleepaga tho stun i already said probably meant you died, also you dont need flee to survive just enough space for movement gear to get you home free, and before you say it, i have survived links like that on thf before, i figure with 12% movment boots dnc gets and once a little distance chocho jig should get them away nicely tho never used dnc in dynamis so i cant say for sure.




If THF can deaggro mobs with just movement speed+12% but didn't flee/hide, then so can BLU with movement speed+12% and shadows up. I still don't see how pure super high evasion is safer than access to AoE sleep.

Also it's commonly believed that white proc isn't worth going unless you have access to TH somehow. So we should stop talking about white proc already >.>

As for the refresh, it's usually +6, but you can reach 7+ if you really, really need MP, or when you not in TP mode. You can cap haste with serpentes if you happened to need that extra refresh, although your TP DPS will drop a bit, but I don't find TP DPS important all the time especially when mob is 30% or lower HP, and certain mob like bird/rabbit just drop HP really fast regardless what I TP in, and in the range of 1 spell will end it's HP already.

Oce head(+1)(6% or 7%) AF3+2 body(3%) Twilight belt (7%) Haste 3% hands Thaumas legs (6%) serpentes feet, that's 25%~26% haste with 7 tick refresh. If mobs are almost dead, like 10% left, it totally won't make a difference in terms of killing speed by using serpentes. Majority of the EP mobs I have to turn around before it even proc anyways. I rarely have MP issue anyways, so most of the time I just keep 6tick refresh. But even if I switch to 7 tick, mob still often hit 5% and I have to turn before it proc regardless.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Yea, pet TH+1 + sash = TH2 same as what blu has with trait and sash, same as what bst would have with pet trait and pet TH gear.

Besides, i wasnt actually being serious, its just the way OP was talking about pet TH gear made it sound like they wanted it BST only, like bst is the only job that has a pet.

No, I just meant would you not have:

+1 for you
+1 for your pet

so only TH+1? Not sure how TH works. I know you get whatever is the highest the party member / pet has. In SMN case it'd be +1 where as BST would be +2 for pets natural and Pet: Treasure hunter +1. Though as I said, I could be wrong.

Personally I'd love a piece like:

Assistant's Ring
Pet: Treasure Hunter +1 "Haste" +1%
BST DRG PUP SMN

In general, more gear specifically for BST DRG PUP and SMN with pet buffs would be really good.

[Thorbean]

The last few day's I've been experimenting with chasing magic stagger as BLU/RDM. It's not "completely terrible" but can get extremely frustrating with the frequency of unlucky streaks. (often ~40-50 casts and getting nothing). The only redeeming part about it is you get the entire area to yourself and don't have to put up with stupid perle BST's.

Generally rotating dia > head butt > dia while facing the mob, with occasional hits hapening between casts. Even with essentially no wait between casts, i would still have to turn and switch to dia only to get a stagger on ~70-75% of the targets. I had auto-refresh trait set, AF3+2 body, battery charge and serps set equipped for stagger (7/tick total).
After stagger i just switch to reular hands/feet for the kill if it happened early. I generally ended up killing it with head butt as most of the time, the target was around 1% hp by the time i actually got the stagger... Never had MP issues, even getting riddled occassionally wasn't a problem and convert every half hour meant no down time. Once or twice i got stagger with dream flower on adds and a quick CA>Savage Blade> Goblin Rush took care of it and let me get back to dia spam. Certainly not a fun 4 hours (I enter just before JP midnight for 2 runs back to back every 2 days).

I'd say the chance for magic stagger should least double what it is currently to come anywhare close to /DNC chasing JA.
It would also spread the players out abit and curb the problem of 15-20 people all chasing the same stagger.

Same story with WS, it's just not really viable, spamming RLB, I'd find myself having to pull another mob just to TP on before i actually got a stagger and often end up killing before.

Everyone shouldn't be forced to /DNC to perform well in dyna. Magic/WS stagger really needs looked at. I'm a "Blue Mage" not a Blue dancer. I should be best off chasing magic stagger, but that's just not the case.

Having TH trait was certainly not overpowered in this instance...

[tyrantsyn]

Did the same on RDM the other night ago, it's so frustrating. By the time it takes me to proc one mob with magic. Another player on JA's could have done 2 to 3 mob's. I can Under stand thing's could become problematic do to aoe spell's. But at this point I'd rather deal with the unknown than what we have to deal with now.

[Leonardus]

Way too many people in this thread twisting Malthar's original argument.

He was making the point that SE wants a strict order for TH, which blu is breaking via the augmented Tarutaru Sash. Blu was breaking this order before SE announced their TH rules, just as BST was. BST was adjusted.

Someone said SE wasn't counting gear. Jugs are an equipped ammo and SE treats them very much as ammunition ("Firepower") for BST.

Another guy was suggesting hippos and bugs aren't "historically" thieves. I'm not sure how this is relevant to FFXI, because in Vana'diel, many hippogryphs and virtually all ladybugs are indeed THFs. Mobs possess the traits of their job. Jugpets are mobs. So the BASE of a jugpet before SE gives them special characteristics, is indeed that of a wild mob. This stuff has been tested.

I'm not crying for SE to do this, but I think the 'fair' solution is to add one item for BST with TH+1. Make it the waist (So you'll sacrifice a Moepapa Stone or Twilight Sash). They could remove the sash's augment altogether which would bring order to the TH job chart, but system-wise I'm not sure if that's possible. Pretty rough situation.

As for other pet jobs...there's no reason SE can't be creative in that department, but what avatars are technically THF? (I honestly don't know. Are they blms?) We'd need a SMN/PUP sash with Pet: TH+2 on it, correct? Well, should all jobs be able to do this, pet or not?

Quite a mess. I don't see SE acting on it, to be honest.

[scaevola]

Make it the waist (So you'll sacrifice a Moepapa Stone or Twilight Sash).

knock it off

[Thorbean]

I was under the impression that only the main target can be staggered by an AoE. Still, spamming -ga's isn't gonna be near as effective as /DNC on JA even if you could hold and survive 10-15 mobs at a time.

JA could be lowered 5-10%, magic raised by a substantial amount and WS raised by maybe 10% IMO to bring it a bit closer together. Main target only for -ga's.

[Nawesemo]

I was under the impression that only the main target can be staggered by an AoE. Still, spamming -ga's isn't gonna be near as effective as /DNC on JA even if you could hold and survive 10-15 mobs at a time.

JA could be lowered 5-10%, magic raised by a substantial amount and WS raised by maybe 10% IMO to bring it a bit closer together. Main target only for -ga's.
It was pretty chotic, and i didn't record it but im pretty sure anything hit by aoe can proc, dnc linked everything from top of the ah, down to the bridge in windy, I fired off a sleepga on the avatar, and one of the blm yags went red !!, our thf accidently went /nin, so I can't be sure, but I was targeting the avatar....

[tyrantsyn]

Way too many people in this thread twisting Malthar's original argument.

He was making the point that SE wants a strict order for TH, which blu is breaking via the augmented Tarutaru Sash. Blu was breaking this order before SE announced their TH rules, just as BST was. BST was adjusted.

More than likely, they just didn't take the time to research it before answering the question. Which is really nothing new for Dev's or for ppl posting here.

On top of that, the OP pretty much spell's it out in the first 2 to 3 page's. If they have this and I only have that. Give me this so I can be in the order you claim I was in. And the way he came off just sounded selfish and self righteous.

Honestly I don't think most ppl would care if they got the gear. Their just tired of zone's full of dead mob's during preferred proc time's due to over aggressive BST.

[Tennotsukai]

If there was a thumbs down or dislike button I would have used it for this forum post. It's really bad SE likes to nerf. We should really only be asking for the opposite of a nerf like a piece of gear for BST that offers the pet TH or something.

[Nawesemo]

If there was a thumbs down or dislike button I would have used it for this forum post. It's really bad SE likes to nerf. We should really only be asking for the opposite of a nerf like a piece of gear for BST that offers the pet TH or something.

Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!

[Malthar]

Yeah, I agree Tenno; oh wait... Wasn't that what the original post requested? lol

[Leonardus]

Honestly I don't think most ppl would care if they got the gear. Their just tired of zone's full of dead mob's during preferred proc time's due to over aggressive BST.

This is why I stick to city dynamis with my friend... BST+BLU makes a pretty good team. You just know something's wrong when it takes you several minutes to get a magic proc, though. It's not the jobs, the event itself is flawed.

[Thorbean]

If there was a thumbs down or dislike button I would have used it for this forum post. It's really bad SE likes to nerf. We should really only be asking for the opposite of a nerf like a piece of gear for BST that offers the pet TH or something.

Because BST deserves TH more than any other job? Are you serious? You don't have it good enough with a highly evasive pet that can tank like a pro and deal sygnificant damage while being able to find specific enemies with wide scan i guess...
God forbid adding anything that isn't exclusive to BST!

[Calamity]

Ya know, bst is one of my main two jobs, and I was affected by the TH nerf no less than any other bst. But I gotta say, let it go. we had our fight, the battle is lost, and yet every week I see a new thread like this, several started by Malthar himself, and I have this to say: Give up. We are never going to get our th back. Threads like this only serve to give bsts a worse rep than we already have. This one is especially bad because you're not bitching for other jobs to be nerfed because of what happened to us. So I am here speaking for those of us bsts who just don't want our image tarnished any more. Give this up.

[Malthar]

I made two threads, not several. And this thread had nothing to do with bst! It's about the tarutaru sash and blu th job trait breaking SE's TH rules.

[Prothscar]

...no, it's a thinly veiled whine thread about BLU being able to get 1 higher tier of TH than BST without having to sub THF.

[Scuro]

First I lol'd.... then I serious'd

Go cry about TH elsewhere, the only ones that would b*tch about TH being given out is THF and it doesn't even matter because they already have a pretty indefinite role in this game. If you want awesome TH you go to THF, but if you want alternatives for when you don't, why not have these other options. Also I can tell you right now as a BLU, I don't put that shit on or get that TH+ thing for me, so I don't see the big wank fest here. Its not like we're stepping on anyones toes cuz oooooo we can get TH2! TOOOO LEEET OVERPOWERED!! GTFO! lol.

[Afania]

Way too many people in this thread twisting Malthar's original argument.

He was making the point that SE wants a strict order for TH, which blu is breaking via the augmented Tarutaru Sash. Blu was breaking this order before SE announced their TH rules, just as BST was. BST was adjusted.



Even if you count gear, BLU still doesn't break order for TH, BLU doesn't get TH3.

[Phogg]

Ok I'll tell you what's so special about BLU that lets it get TH but after you have to tell me what's so special about BST that makes it deserve it? Cause I think they are lucky to have it at all.

A major part of Blu since day one is the fact that it mimics other jobs through its selection of spells traits and gear. Having TH upgrade from gilfinder is BLU's way of being a mini Thf, same way having DA is its way of mimicking a war, having counter is its way of mimicking a mnk having nukes is its way of mimicking a Mage ect.

As for bst, classically know as a tanking or dding pet job based on setup, the pets that get TH being a ladybug and a hyppogryph. Ladybug's... A bug. No claim to TH there. A hyppogryph, classically known as a steed to a knight or sorcerer, no claim to TH there. What makes you think bst has as much of a claim to TH as a job designed to mimic other jobs?

The pets a BST controls have jobs, just like their counterpart mobs, whether they are charmed mobs or jug pets. Falcorr and Dipper are THFs, just like courel pets are WARs. So, in that vein, there is no difference. BLU, as you say, mimics other jobs. BST utilizes the job of their pet. Even charmable magic casting pets. So if one of our pets are a THF, and THFs have treasure hunter, why is that so confounding to assume the pet would have TH?

[Caketime]

Because we can't have nice things, Phogg. When I say we I mean BST in particular, not players in general.

[Kitkat]

I'm not sure what to say to this. Honestly, someone has to try really hard to come to an ass-backward conclusion that a blu will go through the trouble of setting TH1 then sacrifice a 7%haste 2%DA gear piece for a +1th piece and still maintain the same or better kill/proc speed of a bst+pet with TH1.

This has nothing to do with Blu getting a better TH than Bst, cause it is the same damn thing as bst only there is a TH+1 equipable item that quite possibly no one will ever put on over a better piece. That is like saying a thf/dnc will sacrifice their kill speed by equiping Thief's knife when farming Dynamis (which if you do...shoot yourself in the foot...seriously, I'm not kidding here...get a gun and shoot yourself in the foot).

Now, if blu/dnc could set TH1, super tank 2-5 mobs, proc, and have moderate kill speed you might have a case. Fact is, they can't without support or sacrificing something else in the process, just doesn't work that way. I have thaumas, I have quite a varied option of haste sets to choose from, and I can tell you right now I would never ever sacrifice belt slot to put on TH+1 item and sacrifice a useful job trait lvl to set TH to reach TH2. It just isn't worth the overall sacrifices to attain TH2, let alone just use the item for TH1 effect flat out.

By the way, please find me a blu that will go through the trouble to setting TH1 and wear an augmented sash to farm thinking it is far more beneficial to do so than alternative means. If you find this person, I would like to /point and /laugh until I'm blue in the face......for I find the thought of someone doing this absolutely hilarious.

[Komori]

I'm not really for or against this but please stop acting like having the TH belt on for ONE swing is somehow gimping yourself for the entirety of the fight. I'm a BLU with Thaumas and Almace as well.

[Calatilla]

Are people really saying you're losing 7% haste by using a taru sash on BLU? You do realise you don't fulltime it, macro it into SL and you're sorted.

[Dohati]

tarutaru sash or not. blu falls into the "other jobs" category at the bottom of SE's proposed TH hierarchy because anything/thf has more TH than a blu already. it's not like other jobs can't sub thf AND wear a taru sash.

[Kitkat]

If all you can pull from the post is that it "gimps" the haste department then you missed where I said it doesn't due to various haste options. I instead mentioned that if someone thinks a blu will seriously go out of their way to set Th trait plus use the belt and be at the same kill rate as a bst using a th pet then they are seriously looking at things ass-backwards. Almace or not, all haste options or not, a blu/dnc with th2 via trait+sash is not comparable to the bst and their TH pet in terms of kill speed and multiple mob holding.

This guys argument is about as valid as bitching about other jobs that can equip the sash subbing /thf and getting Th3 instead of TH2. The fact behind it is that it isn't done because the gain from it does not outweigh the loss of another trait and anyone who needs TH that badly on something would be better off lvling thf instead. Plain and simple it is a bad argument all around since the guy just looks at the TH part of it and not the whole picture.

[deces]

I foresee another nerf on a grand scale.

[Spiritreaver]

<Slow clap>

I saw this OP last week and figured it would get a few responses, but here it is still going strong. I swear you guys argue about the most asinine things.....

[Osmond]

I tried TH trait and don't see it overpowered. It felt like a waste of Blue points though.