Random Deal Adjustments

[Okipuit]

Yarr,

I’d like to share some information about upcoming changes to corsair’s Random Deal ability.

Currently, Random Deal includes each and every ability into its chance factor in the case of abilities that are separated into multiple categories hierarchically, such as Phantom Roll. Due to this, the possibility of Phantom Roll being chosen greatly increases. With that said, we are planning to make changes so that Phantom Roll only counts as a single ability. (Similarly we will also be changing abilities such as Samba/Waltz, Jump, and other abilities that share recast timers.)

While this change won’t quite make it in time for the version update taking place at the end of September, the Development Team is working on the change and aiming to implement it during the following version update.

[Mirage]

Does this mean you are planning to give all four jumps separate timers, and/or give us for example two independent waltz-timers? I am especially interested in the latter of those two.

I realize it might be way too early to expect precise information about these changes, but even a "something like that" would be very nice to hear!

[Koren]

Technically you can call this is a nerf for abilities that share the same timer.

The game views each ability separate (example: Curing Waltz I, II, III, IV and V, Divine Waltz I and II and Healing Waltz.) If you use Waltz V, all the Waltzes are set to a recast of 23 seconds. Random Deal will go through the list and try to reset Curing Waltz I, then Curing Waltz II and so on giving Waltzes 8 chances to reset vs something like Berserk which only gets the one chance. SE is planning to have all 8 Waltzes viewed as a single ability by Random Deal so it would only have the 1 chance to be reset like with Berserk.

Edit: Since Random Deal only resets a single ability timer this is useful for jobs like COR which may have Phantom Roll cooling down which would be about 28x the chance of being hit vs Quick Draw.

[Mirage]

But at the same time, if you're playing dnc without a cor with you, you might be able to do a Healing Waltz now, and then follow up with CW4 just one second later. That sounds really nice to me, but I guess it goes both ways.

[Cowardlybabooon]

Not sure how this could be viewed as negative in any way if you know what random deal is generally used for.

[Milva]

These days CORs are highly dependant on Phantom Roll recast timer in Legion. In that event every minute counts when you enter and it is not uncommon to do multiple COR rotations in an alliance (or even two alliances). In that setting starting and keeping 11 chain is almost impossible since you have pretty much only 1 shot at rolling for each party (busting or having to reroll wastes too much precious time). Imagine three CORs having to wait 60s to reroll each party in alliance - that's 10% of event time wasted by everyone just standing around and waiting for their buffs to be put up. And repeating this process several times..?
Thus, in Legion, Random Deal having a high chance at restoring Phantom Roll is a highly beneficial thing. Same goes for restoring Summoner's Shock Squall timers or Scholar's Alacrity-Stun timers.

Phantom Roll recast with merits and gear can be brought down to 45s (or 15s if you get lucky with 11).

Essentially this change is aimed at putting more pressure on CORs, SCHs and SMNs in Legion. In any other event if you want to avoid Random Dealing your Phantom roll, you just wait half a minute and aim for that Fold/SnakeEye etc. Similarly, your SCHs not having Stun up and ready is not a big deal aside from Legion (and maaaaybeeee Provenance Watcher).

Legion is going to get interesting when Perfect Defence, Embrava and now Random Deal all get nerfed.

[Edyth]

Yarr,

I’d like to share some information about upcoming changes to corsair’s Random Deal ability.

Currently, Random Deal includes each and every ability into its chance factor in the case of abilities that are separated into multiple categories hierarchically, such as Phantom Roll. Due to this, the possibility of Phantom Roll being chosen greatly increases. With that said, we are planning to make changes so that Phantom Roll only counts as a single ability. (Similarly we will also be changing abilities such as Samba/Waltz, Jump, and other abilities that share recast timers.)

While this change won’t quite make it in time for the version update taking place at the end of September, the Development Team is working on the change and aiming to implement it during the following version update.

So instead of Phantom Roll having 30-ish chances to be restored, it'll only have 1. I like this. It means more Folds, Snake Eyes, and Quick Draws.

[Quetzacoatl]

(Similarly we will also be changing abilities such as Samba/Waltz, Jump, and other abilities that share recast timers.)

Did SE just say they're going to make waltz timers separate?!

[hiko]

Did SE just say they're going to make waltz timers separate?!

NO!
they dont separate timer, RD only try to reset it once instead of once per waltze/samba

[Eric]

Y'all have reading comprehension issues. They're not splitting waltz timers. In fact, they're kind of merging them even further.

I'm no COR expert, but let me show you an example of what's going on (we're going to assume the user has at least one merit into Loaded Deck.):


A Dancer just used Curing Waltz V and is also waiting on the recast timers for No Foot Rise and Presto.
A Corsair uses Random Deal.

Now:
Random Deal will choose one ability from this list to reset a timer:

Curing Waltz - Waltz Timer
Curing Waltz II - Waltz Timer
Curing Waltz III - Waltz Timer
Curing Waltz IV - Waltz Timer
Curing Waltz V - Waltz Timer
Healing Waltz - Waltz Timer
Divine Waltz - Waltz Timer
Divine Waltz II - Waltz Timer
Presto - Presto Timer
No Foot Rise - No Foot Rise Timer

Out of a list of 10 entries, the Waltz timer will be reset by 8 out of 10 possible choices.

Here's how the proposed changes would make it work:
Random Deal will choose one recast timer from this list to reset:

All Waltzes - Waltz Timer
Presto - Presto Timer
No Foot Rise - No Foot Rise Timer

Out of a list of 3 entries, the Waltz timer will be reset by 1 out of 3 possible choices.

[Afania]

Not sure how this could be viewed as negative in any way if you know what random deal is generally used for.

Generally used for PR reset in legion, duh.

Now have fun waiting for 45sec~1 min everytime your COR doing rebuff in legion, unless you're rebuffing mid-battle. That's quite a lot of time waste when you only have 30 min to kill.





So instead of Phantom Roll having 30-ish chances to be restored, it'll only have 1. I like this. It means more Folds, Snake Eyes, and Quick Draws.

I don't see how resetting fold and quick draw has more benefit than resetting PR though, even snake eye is debatable, the difference of killing speed between unlucky DA roll and No.11 DA roll won't be 45 sec~1 min. And 45 sec~1 min is the difference between 1~2 NM killed in legion.

[Seha]

I feel so...indifferent to this change. Call me again when you give us the Quick Draw update.

[Afania]

So instead of Phantom Roll having 30-ish chances to be restored, it'll only have 1. I like this. It means more Folds, Snake Eyes, and Quick Draws.

Also, it's pretty easy to reset fold/snake eye over PR if you want fold/snake eye reset instead of PR.....just wait until PR is up again and use random deal.

[Afania]

I know it's already been mentioned, but I can't help to post again, that I am strongly against this nerf, unless I misunderstand what dev tried to change, because if you do legion, not be able to reset PR with Random deal is against the design concept of the COR.



At this point of time, majority of legion group in NA community uses following setup:

DDx5 + A bunch of mages and SMN. DD x5 in one pt, get COR in to buff, get BRD in to buff, get SMN in to hastega and PD then zerg.

I know some ppl used different setup, but most of the groups I know of still use 5x DD setup.

Due to the limited time, the down time between Phantom roll makes a huge difference between how many NM you can kill, since majority of NM(barring some with high PDT-) will die in 30 sec~60 sec.

The lowest PR recast time obtainable is 45 sec, that means everytime when you spend 45 sec downtime to wait for PR recast, you're losing 1 extra NM kill and 1 extra drop chance because your ally can easily kill 1+ NM in 45 sec.

Although you can just roll 1st roll, disband, get BRD buff, BRD disband, invite COR again to do 2nd roll, but due to the lag in communication and ppl's reaction speed, you still gonna waste time between asking pt lead to send invite and ppl accept invite and it's not going to be faster than just do 2nd roll right away.

Thus ideally, kill the cool down time between phantom roll is COR's No.1 priority, over anything else.

That means while DDs killing the NM, you should be trying to get a No.10 or No.11 up by repeatly overwritting old rolls, and lock double-up status if it's No.10 so you can instantly buff your pt with a No.11 and do 2nd roll.(You can instantly do 2nd roll with double-up timer lock even if it's not a No.10 too)


Every legion NM dies in 30 sec~60 sec or even lower than 30 sec. COR as a ranged DD often only get to do 1~2 WS(at very best, 3 WS if you /SAM or fighting high PDT- mobs) on each NM before it dies.

That means about 4k~8k on each NM(assuming COR isn't buffed by BRD either), and your DD can deal way more than that in a few sec.

No matter how I see it, a COR not dealing dmg, but trying to lock double-up timer(especially if you can lock double-up on No.10) to kill cool down time, or keep overwritting old rolls to get a right number/No.11 is more beneficial than dealing dmg with DD roll up. Unless that NM is super dangerous like mantis that you just need it to die a few sec faster.

However, with current random deal design, as long as random deal is up(it's going to be up for at least twice a run, if you used 2hr you get more), you're free to have DD roll up and deal dmg, and still able to kill cool down time when you buff when random deal is up because you can almost always(I never fail resetting it) reset it with Random Deal.

COR's original design concept is to buff, then when you're not buffing you're dealing dmg. Majority of the COR gears are DD gear too, only a few are phantom roll gear(only luzaf, AF2 hat, AF3+2 set and ASA pants are)

However, by nerfing PR recast reset chance, you will see 1000 CORs all keep rolling/locking double-up in legion, and nobody is DDing, just because it's more efficient to kill cool down time over dealing dmg. Nerfing PR reset chance just basically telling everyone "don't DD, stay as a roll bitch".

I'm totally fine if being a roll bitch is what SE want, but seeing majority of the gears are DD gear, it often made me wonder why even bother to grind them.