Pet th - Just hear me out

[Malthar]

Ok, so SE gimped our pet TH down to one and reneged on the mention of releasing pet th gear. So how about this, keep th1 on both Yuley and Falcorr, but allow Yuley to proc th to higher levels with regular melee attacks. Falcorr got an attack boost and Yuley got nothing for having th removed. Yuley is a weaker pet than Falcorr and can barely hold hate from the master. Give Yuley the ability to proc th to higher levels.

If you like this idea, hit like.

[Caketime]

In b4 Barrance!!1!

[Karbuncle]

While I'm not against the idea, as a THF Myself, I simply do not see it happening. But wish you luck.

[Calamity]

I can see another flame thread developing. Just counting the days til Ihnako shows up.

[deces]

And nynja too.. m( > . >)m

[Vandheer]

While I'd always love a buff to Beastmaster Pet TH is a lost cause my friend. You should not forget about how the went about dismissing the issue of Pet TH, saying one thing then claiming they never said anything of the sort. Since that incident convincing SE for Pet TH is a loosing battle.

As for Yuly, I'm not sure how Yuly isn't holding hate against you. Perhaps your not doing it right? Try this, Animated Flourish, Ruinator, Snarl. Nifty thing about Animated Flourish is it has a 30 second timer as does Snarl giving you a voke for your pet. In aby use MC for reduced enmity loss and +20 HP per tic for you and your pet. Not to mention the +50 VIT ups your Waltz on yourself.

As a heads up look out for some potential flames. :x

[Leonardus]

We're an "other" job according to SE, Malthar. Not going to happen.

Yuly still has a few battles you'd use over Falcorr. Also good for an AoE roundup.

Enmity issues? Obviously some enemies are dangerous to melee, but a solid Ruinator at the start is quite useful.

[Nawesemo]

Lol, what happens when a bst subs thf? *gasp. Poor thfs, everyone wants rheir lucky charms, just not them.

[Caketime]

Shove those lucky charms straight back up your bum where they came from~

[deces]

I think SE should do this just for the fact that that Jugmaster is the most trolled and lied to job in all of mankind's history.

[Cabalabob]

I think SE should do this just for the fact that that Jugmaster is the most trolled and lied to job in all of mankind's history.

Lol really? "hey smns we are gonna add new avatars soon!"
3 years later: "here is Odin and Alexander! Oh but you can only use them under your 2hr they take that and all your mp to do one move which sucks by the way. Have fun!"
1 year later: "oh no! The player base found a way to make Alexander actually have a use in the game :( we must gimp it!"

[Shadax]

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa453/hmbruce/dead-horse1.jpg

[tyrantsyn]

Dynamis
BST
TH
Behavior
No matter how simple you try to make this, the problem is right there in 4 word's. The job has pretty much suffer in the same way RDM has. Individual's took it to a new level. And it got snuff under the flag of balance. Personally, I just shake my head. While the nerf balance fix the dev's team problem with the issue. It still leave's many ppl standing around waiting for re-spawn's in a time event where every second count's. Due mostly to BST rounding up everything they come across and killing it in pack's. The situation turn's players against player, and has made BST one of the most hated job classes too see in Dynamis. Can you blame them? No, their just doing what they can to make gil and build there relic.

My apologies for the derail. But the issue goes beyond the TH nerf. And trying to get it back.

[Zagen]

Yuley is a weaker pet than Falcorr and can barely hold hate from the master.
If this is true then you need to work on how you play BST... Hint: Snarl


Due mostly to BST rounding up everything they come across and killing it in pack's.
Does no one actually learn how BST works before proclaiming it is broken/over powered because of X? When this happens pick any mob the pet/master doesn't have imediate claim over, then follow these simple steps:

1) Violent Flourish (stun the monster to keep it from attacking thus lowering the risk of attracting the pet's attention again)
2) Step of your Choice (mostly to help with proc attempt, can skip to #3 if the BST staggered the monster already)
3) Weapon Skill or keep on meleeing.
4) Congrats you just stole a monster from a BST.

The moment a Pet is not being hit by a monster it will ignore it for another monster that is hitting it, the longer said monster isn't hitting it the more the pet will ignore it further increasing your chance to steal. Get the trick now?

This is what makes holding monsters in "packs" extremely easy to steal from which is made worse if the BST/Pet has already proced that monster as they now just lost money. Keep in mind this only works when you aren't targeting the monster the master is on or the one the pet is currently attacking.

SE can keep it's TH nerf even at TH1 I get more than enough currency on my BST mule. I'm just glad they didn't nerf Falcorr's damage as that's what makes him appealing over all other pets in my opinion.

[Malthar]

This thread is about giving Dipper Yuley the ability to proc higher TH, not a forum to explain how to steal a dynamis mob from a bst.

[Calamity]

Due mostly to BST rounding up everything they come across and killing it in pack's.

I also want to point out for probably the millionth time I can think of, this is hardly a bst only thing. I've seen dncs, thfs, nins, plds and other jobs do the exact same thing, especially the ones who have whm mules to back them up. It's really not hard. Bst gets all the flack just because it is the most commonly used dynamis farmer, and for very good reason. It's not that all bsts are jackasses, it's that jackasses have started playing bst, essentially ruining the rep of the small group of us that play the job because we love it.

[bearfoot]

Well u can go online and /sea the dynamis zones at any time u want , u will perhaps see 1 or 2 dncs and thiefs , but 6-10 solo bsts , u wonder they get heat for the behavior ? Go with some friends to dynamis and get whining and b***** by them or have them try to steal from u .
The way bst is handled in dynamis just killed it for most others , not everyone wants to play bst or whatever , and dont start with go to dc mobs .
If it was for me , they could delete the whole th on pets , see the zones and figure what the th nerf did to bsts , absolutely nothing.
Ur just whining u get a few currency less with th1 then 3 . Get over it

[tyrantsyn]

Look I don't like derailing thread's, so I'm not going to add anything more here. If I feel passionate enough about it later I'll bump an old Dyna thread or start a new one and this can be continue there. As far as this topic goes I think Shadax put it best.

[Aarahs]

Yuly is level 76ish. Falcorr is level 90ish. I fail to see the difference in power when you consider that.

[Camiie]

Yuly is level 76ish. Falcorr is level 90ish. I fail to see the difference in power when you consider that.

That's the level that the jugs are available. It has nothing to do with anything really.

As far as the topic, I think allowing Yuly to proc higher levels of TH through combat is a great idea. Even if they just capped it at the level 3 we had before it'd be fine with me.

[Xilk]

Well u can go online and /sea the dynamis zones at any time u want , u will perhaps see 1 or 2 dncs and thiefs , but 6-10 solo bsts , u wonder they get heat for the behavior ? Go with some friends to dynamis and get whining and b***** by them or have them try to steal from u .
The way bst is handled in dynamis just killed it for most others , not everyone wants to play bst or whatever , and dont start with go to dc mobs .
If it was for me , they could delete the whole th on pets , see the zones and figure what the th nerf did to bsts , absolutely nothing.
Ur just whining u get a few currency less with th1 then 3 . Get over it

you are either ignorant or ignoring an important point.
They are wearing perle armor. they were abyssea burned their levels and they are players who only have bst for dyna farming. They are the same players who were bandwagon, sam, bandwagon mnk, bandwagon anything.

don't blame the enthusiasts of the job for what some ill-mannered players do.

[Camiie]

don't blame the enthusiasts of the job for what some ill-mannered players do.

Excellent point.

Another thing is, this doesn't only affect BSTs in Dynamis. It affects us wherever we go. I'm affected in Abyssea or Vana'diel. I'm affected farming something for myself or for friends. I'm affected in places no complaints have been made about.

I don't even like Dynamis old or new. I don't do it on any sort of regular basis, and when I do I don't hog groups of mobs. Yet, here I am nerfed in all aspects of the game without any sort of respite from SE all because a few bandwagon BSTs AND the people who hate them ALL think they own whatever Dynamis zone they're in and no one else should be there farming THEIR mobs. Yep that's right. The BST detractors are just as greedy and selfish as those bandwagon BSTs they attack.

[Nawesemo]

Lol, when a bst can solo a lot of bosses for any given zone with little problems, I don't see that Job as gimped/nerfed (edit, stupid smart phone), just given something that never should have been yours to begin with... I could see more bountiful drops on beast mobs, (read yall can skin shit), but nothing in a "beast master" says "treasure hunter"....... Cor's deserve the trait more than you. Not many jobs can kill harder mobs without as much thought as a bst..... Be happy they don't nerf hate holding of your pets so you don't actually ever have to engage anything...... Cry me a freaking river....

[Caketime]

Who are you to determine what job deserves anything?

[Nawesemo]

Kettle, meet pot? Just another player, but my point stands, we are able to /thf to get as much OF THEIR trait..... And you wanting it natively is as silly as thfs wanting to call pets,.without /bst.

[Malthar]

It's native to the pet, not the job.

[Caketime]

Kettle, meet pot? Just another player, but my point stands, we are able to /thf to get as much OF THEIR trait..... And you wanting it natively is as silly as thfs wanting to call pets,.without /bst.

Who said we want native TH? Are you just making this up as you go?

[Malthar]

If blue mage can get TH from setting monster TP-moves, then the same holds for a beastmaster calling a thief type pet. The pet has TH and should be able to proc TH like a regular thief.

[Nawesemo]

Lol,splitting hairs, .....bst only job that can call it it is an extension or a part of the job,... because maybe a bst being the only job that can call a pet, that used to get buku thf, but dont now because it was unfair to main thf? Or are you just avoiding the fact that this thread is about bst, pets and +thf, and getting it without subbbing thf...... I'm not here to argue, just point out that thf's exist for a reason.

[Plasticleg]

bsts need to be gimped.

you guys are already OP with farsha.
give it a break, greedy ppl >.>

but in all seriousness, most bsts already are gimped, if you take such offense, there's a strong chance you're one of them.

[Aldersyde]

Lol, because maybe a bst being the only job that can call a pet, that used to get buku thf, but dont now because it was unfair to main thf? Or are you just avoiding the fact that this thread is about bst, pets and +thf, and getting it without subbing thf...... I'm not here to argue, just point out that thf's exist for a reason.

Given your original post in this thread, I'd say absolutely you're here to argue. I was wondering when a foaming-at-the mouth bst hater would show. They're slipping. It should have happened on the first page.

[Caketime]

Lol, because maybe a bst being the only job that can call a pet, that used to get buku thf, but dont now because it was unfair to main thf? Or are you just avoiding the fact that this thread is about bst, pets and +thf, and getting it without subbing thf...... I'm not here to argue, just point out that thf's exist for a reason.

Nobody said anything about Thief leading a meaningless existence, and at this point I'm convinced that a BST made you cry today in Dyna. Feed us your tears. Om nom nom nom.

[Nawesemo]

/em bursts out in tears

[Caketime]

Delicious.

[Nawesemo]

Hehehehehe, salty?

[Caketime]

Tastes like candy. :3

[Caketime]

If urine comes from your eyes then I think you have much bigger issues at hand than Pet TH.

[Nawesemo]

Given your original post in this thread, I'd say absolutely you're here to argue. I was wondering when a foaming-at-the mouth bst hater would show. They're slipping. It should have happened on the first page.

.... I said something to the effect that /thf or gtfo without the wa wa wa, problem solved, why should bst have +thf, when they can do soooooo much that other jobs can't? What entitles bst to a thf trait? It seems silly to me, yet there are eloquent posts as to why they should, im wondering if the authors of them considered balance and the 20some other jobs in their brain fart.... Main thf. Have thf, we all can /thf, letting bst have more than that, natively, and keep their /Whm /dnc or anything but /thf in my opinion is broken....there are main thfs for a reason, yall just are still sticking your noses up at the social aspect of the game, understandably so as the red headed stepchildren of any given group, but still, yall don't have to take a thf, but are screaming you want one, just not a player......hu?

[Aldersyde]

.... I said something to the effect that /thf or gtfo without the wa wa wa, problem solved, why should bst have +thf, when they can do soooooo much that other jobs can't? What entitles bst to a thf trait? It seems silly to me, yet there are eloquent posts as to why they should, im wondering if the authors of them considered balance and the 20some other jobs in their brain fart.... Main thf. Have thf, we all can /thf, letting bst have more than that, natively, and keep their /Whm /dnc or anything but /thf in my opinion is broken....there are main thfs for a reason, yall just are still sticking your noses up at the social aspect of the game, understandably so as the red headed stepchildren of any given group, but still, yall don't have to take a thf, but are screaming you want one, just not a player......hu?

My bad, i meant your post on the third page. Still, the haters are way late for this thread. And it's not even quality hating, it's like, grammar-school, fart-joke hating. How the mighty have fallen.

Anyways.

Funny, when I advocate for abilities intended to get bsts invited to group events on these forums (you know, so I can play a job I like once in awhile in current content that actually matters when i get bored with whm, blm, or Armageddon cor), I'm told to go back to soloing or that bsts aren't meant to play group content. When I go play solo, I'm told I'm sticking my nose up at the social aspect of the game. Ah, the hypocrisy of the lazy-thinking drones of the FFXI playerbase. You do know that there are entire linkshells dedicated to pet jobs right? That really doesn't scream anti-social behavior for the bst community as a whole.

[FrankReynolds]

.... I said something to the effect that /thf or gtfo without the wa wa wa, problem solved, why should bst have +thf, when they can do soooooo much that other jobs can't? What entitles bst to a thf trait? It seems silly to me, yet there are eloquent posts as to why they should, im wondering if the authors of them considered balance and the 20some other jobs in their brain fart.... Main thf. Have thf, we all can /thf, letting bst have more than that, natively, and keep their /Whm /dnc or anything but /thf in my opinion is broken....there are main thfs for a reason, yall just are still sticking your noses up at the social aspect of the game, understandably so as the red headed stepchildren of any given group, but still, yall don't have to take a thf, but are screaming you want one, just not a player......hu?

I know just what you mean. Every time I try to find an alliance to farm dynamis valkurm with, they ask if I have beast leveled , but all I have is thief. It sucks that there are all these awesome dynamis shells spamming zones in huge groups that I can't be a part of just because beast has all the TH they need.

If they would just take treasure hunter completely away from beast, then maybe I could finally get into all these huge dynamis farming shouts that I keep missing. That would also clear the zones up completely, because I'm sure that most people who farm on beast would just up and quit rather than be forced into farming on thief, or go back to spamming legion and nyzul and all those other events that beast dominates. At the very least, they would become super friendly and share all the mobs with a poor solo thief.

We should really start a thread and push for this awesome idea. /sarcasm.

[Nawesemo]

Lol, what happens when a bst subs thf? *gasp. Poor thfs, everyone wants rheir lucky charms, just not them.

Were talking about this one yeah? I got some BEASTLY bsts in shell, their gifts are their curse, lowmanning things, (all dynamis zone bosses, all the aby zone bosses..., any goofy t3 vnm, ..Bla Bla Bla, anyway the point is, we (me Blm, him bst, and our mithra thf).... Go into dyna valk, we kill the lock abilities nms, we go farm our big boss POP, we POP thinking cakewalk, were big bad 99s, f no raped us..... We go over what went wrong.... Lol me and the thf touched the mob.... So we huck that part out the plan, farm up another POP, thf sac pops, bst pawns NM big boss..... Blm sucked his thumb....BUT. we took a thf!!!! Lol, ..... I love my bst shell mates, ......can't stand their faulty hate mechanics.... Give one a relic though, ..... Them and their pets are going to wreck shit /thf or not., that has nothing to do with the "arguement" (I can't spell so not a quote, but a quote:).... But illustrates bst power, and lack of ......gelling with other jobs in low man situations.... The rule still stands though..... There is little a bst can't do solo.... They're just hard to include... But I do like em. (Still don't think yuly should get thf back though), (least until they un-nerf Blm aja's).... Anyway, ...that's my story and im sticking to it.

[Nawesemo]

I know just what you mean. Every time I try to find an alliance to farm dynamis valkurm with, they ask if I have beast leveled , but all I have is thief. It sucks that there are all these awesome dynamis shells spamming zones in huge groups that I can't be a part of just because beast has all the TH they need.

If they would just take treasure hunter completely away from beast, then maybe I could finally get into all these huge dynamis farming shouts that I keep missing. That would also clear the zones up completely, because I'm sure that most people who farm on beast would just up and quit rather than be forced into farming on thief, or go back to spamming legion and nyzul and all those other events that beast dominates. At the very least, they would become super friendly and share all the mobs with a poor solo thief.

We should really start a thread and push for this awesome idea. /sarcasm.

Lol you said it bub not me. The idea is very similar to nin/dnc and their lack of a voke, but arguing they should get one,.... Only diffrence being, nins were never teased with one, and had it taken away.

[scaevola]

Oh no, I can only solo farm 250 currency a day!

This injustice shall not stand!!!

(big lolz at all the "real bsts" kvetching about all the people who leveled bst to farm dynamis in a thread where they're all crying for pet TH....to help them farm dynamis)

[Aldersyde]

Oh no, I can only solo farm 250 currency a day!

This injustice shall not stand!!!

(big lolz at all the "real bsts" kvetching about all the people who leveled bst to farm dynamis in a thread where they're all crying for pet TH....to help them farm dynamis)

Except that's not true, it was posters who aren't even bsts who brought dynamis farming up at all. But believe what you want. After all, these are the Official Forums. It's not like you have to actual evidence to back up your arguments or even possess basic reading comprehension before you start talking out your ass.

[scaevola]

Except that's not true, it was posters who aren't even bsts who brought dynamis farming up at all. But believe what you want. After all, these are the Official Forums. It's not like you have to actual evidence to back up your arguments or even possess basic reading comprehension before you start talking out your ass.

Haha, okay; if not Dynamis, why do you think BST needs some increased Treasure Hunter at all?

It doesn't matter if you were "promised" it, because even if you were it still wouldn't make sense to add non-THF TH gear and make it exclusive to the strongest soloing job/job with the absolute lowest gear threshold in the game.

I am not going to dignify something so clearly ridiculous with a more detailed explanation than that.

[Nawesemo]

or even possess basic reading comprehension before you start talking out your ass.

it's writing ability ... what your doing is reading. just the facts. just the facts.

[Aldersyde]

Haha, okay; if not Dynamis, why do you think BST needs some increased Treasure Hunter at all?

It doesn't matter if you were "promised" it, because even if you were it still wouldn't make sense to add non-THF TH gear and make it exclusive to the strongest soloing job/job with the absolute lowest gear threshold in the game.

I am not going to dignify something so clearly ridiculous with a more detailed explanation than that.

If you paid attention to the thread in which bsts were in an uproar about SE's broken promise to add pet: th+ gear, you would know that there was a pretty sizable group (bst haters mostly) who rejected the premise that SE made a promise at all because they didn't explicitly state, as a promise, that they would add the gear. Bsts took it as a promise based on the context of Camate's post. The haters seemed to agree that inferring SE's intention from context was something that bsts shouldn't have done. Therefore, since I just consider you a generic bst hater, I'm not going to let you change the rules and let you do the same to serve your own argument. No bst stated that they want pet TH for dynamis farming. No inferring from context! Sorry, I didn't make the rules. You're going to have to talk to the Bst Hater's Union on that one. So nyah! <raspberry>

[Caketime]

Haha, okay; if not Dynamis, why do you think BST needs some increased Treasure Hunter at all?

For the other 99% of the game that isn't Dynamis.

[Insaniac]

I propose BST be given a piece of gear with "Augments Call Beast" that adds TH+2 to any jug pet called while its equipped. I also propose this this piece of gear take up the ammo slot.

[Aarahs]

That's the level that the jugs are available. It has nothing to do with anything really.

As far as the topic, I think allowing Yuly to proc higher levels of TH through combat is a great idea. Even if they just capped it at the level 3 we had before it'd be fine with me.


Were you going to bother explaining that? Because it has everything to do with it. I can look at other equipment (let's take the line of attribute rings for example) and I see a mostly steady progression from lower level to higher level. Or does your argument have no substance? Please explain how level requirements on auctionable equipment has no bearing on power.

[Insaniac]

Were you going to bother explaining that? Because it has everything to do with it. I can look at other equipment (let's take the line of attribute rings for example) and I see a mostly steady progression from lower level to higher level. Or does your argument have no substance? Please explain how level requirements on auctionable equipment has no bearing on power.



Dipper is an uncapped pet lol. It's level is based on the level of the BST calling it, not the level it can be equipped.

[scaevola]

If you paid attention to the thread in which bsts were in an uproar about SE's broken promise to add pet: th+ gear, you would know that there was a pretty sizable group (bst haters mostly) who rejected the premise that SE made a promise at all because they didn't explicitly state, as a promise, that they would add the gear. Bsts took it as a promise based on the context of Camate's post. The haters seemed to agree that inferring SE's intention from context was something that bsts shouldn't have done. Therefore, since I just consider you a generic bst hater, I'm not going to let you change the rules and let you do the same to serve your own argument. No bst stated that they want pet TH for dynamis farming. No inferring from context! Sorry, I didn't make the rules. You're going to have to talk to the Bst Hater's Union on that one. So nyah! <raspberry>

Again, it doesn't matter what you think you were promised. It's a terrible idea.

[Plasticleg]

Oh no, I can only solo farm 250 currency a day!

This injustice shall not stand!!!

(big lolz at all the "real bsts" kvetching about all the people who leveled bst to farm dynamis in a thread where they're all crying for pet TH....to help them farm dynamis)

You got it all wrong maaaaan.

They leveled bst to afk +2 armor, dynamis came after that!

[Caketime]

Again, it doesn't matter what you think you were promised. It's a terrible idea.

Please provide examples, tia.

[scaevola]

For the other 99% of the game that isn't Dynamis.

Then I have some awesome news for you: recently, the SE dev team announced you can sub THF to get the effects of TH2 on BST!

Ain't life grand?

[scaevola]

Please provide examples, tia.

It's a terrible idea because you aren't asking for more TH gear for everybody, just BST.

It's a terrible idea because you're asking for a buff to the one thing BST is actually already outstanding at, rather than asking for the actual MASSIVE problems the job has (gil-for-gear playstyle, horrible gear scaling, consistent lack of utility in current endgame gimmicks) to be addressed.

It's a terrible idea because no THF is asking for the ability to use Mulsum on himself.

And for (what probably won't be, who am I kidding) the last time, I don't care what anybody thinks they were promised, because had Camate or whoever it was sworn on the lives of his children BST would be getting Pet TH gear, it would still be a terrible idea.

[scaevola]

If only Yuly had something awesome to make it a situationally useful pet.

Maybe, I don't know, being functionally immune to wind elemental damage or something?


man that would be sick.


And frankly, I don`t give a damn if you think my sense of "entitlement" is misguided. I personally think that if SE wants to defend some kind of TH hierarchy with thf at the top, then thf should be left to rot in other ways (that is, offensively) but if SE decided to give thfs something nice in this regard, I certainly wouldn't go into the thread raising a big stink about it, mainly because I'm not a petty douche. And if I did, I would certainly expect to be told to F-off because it would be straight up trolling to get a rise out of people. Kind of like you did with your initial post of this thread.


So why push for BST-specific TH gear and not TH gear for everyone?

I mean, that would still be a terrible idea but at least it wouldn't make you look ridiculous.

EDIT:


I may have "liked" his post but that's only because in principle, I'm not going to object to nice things for my favorite job. Who doesn't want nice things for their job?

Retaliation would be nice for my DNC.

SE plz fix

[Aldersyde]

If only Yuly had something awesome to make it a situationally useful pet.

Maybe, I don't know, being functionally immune to wind elemental damage or something?


man that would be sick.



So why push for BST-specific TH gear and not TH gear for everyone?

I mean, that would still be a terrible idea but at least it wouldn't make you look ridiculous.

You know that Gooey and Fatso have fantastic water resistance right? And Ralphie has thunder resistance as well? Pretty sure Falcorr is resistant to light magic and would mean a lot more if light was actually a scary element. Those are basic properties of those mob families. Yuly gains that resistance simply by the virtue of innate resistances. There's nothing "special" about it. Yuly came with everything a ladybug should have came with, because she's a ladybug.

Why don't you go back and actually read my last post instead of just interpreting what you want it to say? I'm not even advocating what you think I'm advocating. In fact, I'm pretty sure I said something quite different. But I'm not typing it out again. Go back and read it. Practice makes perfect!

Ok, I'll give you a hint. I would fully support any buff that SE decided to give out for any or all jobs. Buffs over nerfs. Always.

Oh, looks like you can't re-read it cause "someone" snitched my post out and it got nuked. Probably for "aggressive language." Tattling really did go out after grammar school you know.

[scaevola]

You know that Gooey and Fatso have fantastic water resistance right? And Ralphie has thunder resistance as well? Pretty sure Falcorr is resistant to light magic and would mean a lot more if light was actually a scary element. Those are basic properties of those mob families. Yuly gains that resistance simply by the virtue of innate resistances. There's nothing "special" about it. Yuly came with everything a ladybug should have came with, because she's a ladybug.

uh

your argument is that because you have a whole bunch of other pets that do the same thing for other elements, having a pet that basically means you can, for instance, get a Masamune, Caladbolg, or Armageddon whenever you kind of feel like it isn't an advantage you consider particularly noteworthy

...ok


Why don't you go back and actually read my last post instead of just interpreting what you want it say? I'm not even advocating what you think I'm advocating. In fact, I'm pretty sure I said something quite different. But I'm not typing it out again. Go back and read it. Practice makes perfect!

i know exactly what you meant to say.


Ok, I'll give you a hint. I would fully support any buff that SE decided to give out for any or all jobs. Buffs over nerfs. Always.

I wholeheartedly support any buffs to BST that address the very real problems the job has that I mentioned further up this page.

In the meantime, again, why have you not responded to the idea of TH gear for all jobs? I do think that would be a bad idea as well, because TH is valuable enough in itself that a player ought to have to give something up in order to take advantage of it (either by virtue of subbing THF or actually bringing a main along), but at least that would almost be fair.

[Aldersyde]

uh

your argument is that because you have a whole bunch of other pets that do the same thing for other elements, having a pet that basically means you can, for instance, get a Masamune, Caladbolg, or Armageddon whenever you kind of feel like it isn't an advantage you consider particularly noteworthy

...ok

Uhhh, no. You presented Yuly`s wind resistance as some kind of miraculous, special thing and I was just pointing out that it wasn't.

If you think that was my argument, I have severe doubts that you knew what I was trying to say in my previous post (since nuked because of "someone's" complaint).

I don't care who SE gives TH equipment to. Why would I? I already said I support buffs (through gear and abilities/traits) to all jobs. Happy?

[scaevola]

rofl


HIGH-TIER MAGIC DAMAGE: NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A BIG DEAL

has it occurred to you that giving you that option for a huge resistance to wind is the whole reason yuly happens to be a ladybug

[scaevola]

I don't care who SE gives TH equipment to. Why would I? Happy?

Okay. Why do we need TH gear to supplement what we already get for subbing THF?

While we're at it, should I be able to use Retaliation on my Dancer, and should all jobs have the ability to heal themselves with Dawn Mulsum?

[Aldersyde]

rofl


HIGH-TIER MAGIC DAMAGE: NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A BIG DEAL

has it occurred to you that giving you that option for a huge resistance to wind is the whole reason yuly happens to be a ladybug

Indubitably...my good chum.

[Aldersyde]

Okay. Why do we need TH gear to supplement what we already get for subbing THF?

While we're at it, should I be able to use Retaliation on my Dancer, and should all jobs have the ability to heal themselves with Dawn Mulsum?

Certainly...my good chum.

[Malthar]

The original post includes nothing about gear. The original post is a request to allow DipperYuley to proc higher TH as other thf's do. It's not to give the master the th trait of any kind, but allow the thief type pet to proc higher TH.

[Quetzacoatl]

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b244/FenreyVarnFFXI/FAIL/FuckDynaBST.jpg

IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT?! D=

I mean, we're throwing you bones in Voidwatch for the love of everything that is good (I've invited BSTs for voidwatch)

[Malthar]

Note that they'll be in there regardless of th.

The original post includes nothing about gear. The original post is a request to allow DipperYuley to proc higher TH as other thf's do. It's not to give the master the th trait of any kind, but allow the thief type pet to proc higher TH.

[Quetzacoatl]

I just hate Dynamis being filled with only BSTs these days...need to thin out the herd somehow :\

I'm glad I finished my first relic while I still could. I'm just gonna farm for gil and buy currency instead for my second relic.

[Malthar]

They're going to be in there regardless of TH level.

[Quetzacoatl]

and?

http://scraemy.free.fr/south_65.gif

[Malthar]

Another troll?

The original post includes nothing about gear. The original post is a request to allow DipperYuley to proc higher TH as other thf's do. It's not to give the master the th trait of any kind, but allow the thief type pet to proc higher TH.

[Plasticleg]

Another troll?

The original post includes nothing about gear. The original post is a request to allow DipperYuley to proc higher TH as other thf's do. It's not to give the master the th trait of any kind, but allow the thief type pet to proc higher TH.

you are missing the whole point of bst being a pet job, eh?

[scaevola]

The original post includes nothing about gear. The original post is a request to allow DipperYuley to proc higher TH as other thf's do. It's not to give the master the th trait of any kind, but allow the thief type pet to proc higher TH.

Yes, but why

why does BST need this thing when nobody thinks BST is in any way deficient at farming

why should dipper yuly be able to proc higher levels of TH when anybody subbing THF cannot

edit: your OP mentions the denial of pet gear as justification for your suggestion, but it doesn't really matter; more TH for BST is a crummy idea regardless of where it comes from

[FrankReynolds]

Yes, but why

why does BST need this thing when nobody thinks BST is in any way deficient at farming

why should dipper yuly be able to proc higher levels of TH when anybody subbing THF cannot

edit: your OP mentions the denial of pet gear as justification for your suggestion, but it doesn't really matter; more TH for BST is a crummy idea regardless of where it comes from

Look, here's the basics:

If a person intends to (or has the means to) farm in a group, then beast is not going to be as good of a choice for getting drops as thief is, Regardless of the level of TH on his pet.

If a person intends to solo, they will likely go beast.

If said soloing person does not have TH in effect on his pet, he will probably have to kill whatever it is he is killing more times to get the desired drop.

This means that other people wanting to kill the same NM or farm the same area just have more competition for said area / NM.

Do you see the problem? Your basically saying "I would rather get screwed out of claim on an NM or ??? or fight with people over farming a certain area than let this guy have an easy time of things."

You are pulling the classic crab in a pot maneuver. Gotta hold the other guy down cuz I don't care about making myself better.

Arguing about how TH is super powerful and important so other jobs cannot have it just leads the devs to believe that thief is super powerful and awesome as is. Which leads to bst getting TH taken away and thief getting nothing in return. Everybody loses and now I have to compete with the same beast in dynamis for even longer because its taking him longer to build his relic.

They basically addressed the fact that thief is not nearly as good at farming as it should be by nerfing a couple of pets because making thief more powerful would have been hard. Unfortunately all they did is annoy bsts.

[tyrantsyn]

you are either ignorant or ignoring an important point.
They are wearing perle armor. they were abyssea burned their levels and they are players who only have bst for dyna farming. They are the same players who were bandwagon, sam, bandwagon mnk, bandwagon anything.

don't blame the enthusiasts of the job for what some ill-mannered players do.

Perhaps on your server their all deck out in perle, I've seen them deck out all the way up to NNI gear.


Lol you said it bub not me. The idea is very similar to nin/dnc and their lack of a voke, but arguing they should get one,.... Only diffrence being, nins were never teased with one, and had it taken away.

Animated flourish is not consider a voke in that combo?

[tyrantsyn]

Look the root of the issue here is over camping during JA proc time's. No one bother's with the other's because there proc rate's suck. If anything needs to be address it's that. I don't know how the dev's can look at the zone's at this point and not think to themselves "why is every one /DNC" and not see a problem with it.

Going for Magical proc's slow's killing down to a crawl

WS proc's don't work because the mob die's too quickly. And un like the JA proc, you can't turn to halt damage and continue to try and proc.

If these proc rate's were given a better % you wouldn't see so many /dnc running around. Or a mob type completely wipe out for the next 5 minutes because of over camping.

[Camiie]

more TH for BST is a crummy idea regardless of where it comes from

Geez, you act like BST is competing against THF for party spots. You guys can push TH higher than anyone, and it will always be thus. You guys have abilities that are much more complimentary to party play than BST. All we have is Killer Instinct, and we can't even take advantage of it a good chunk of the time. So what if we have a little TH working for us when we're out on our own. It's not hurting you except maybe in Dynamis, but that's because Dynamis is now and always has been a fustercluck of a hitshole. Are you upset that a BST doesn't have to call on your aid to apply TH to something? Don't you think BSTs get upset sometimes that people hardly ever need them?

[Xilk]

tyrantsyn is right on the money. The trouble w/ Dynamis has nothing to do w/ BST. Its all about proc rate for JA's vs WS and Magic. If the proc rate were adjusted, the currency famers would be better distributed throughout the zones.

As far as Pet th goes, I miss it more for NM gear hunting than anything else.

As far as jobs /thf not being able to match yuly for TH pre-nerf, its false.
Taru-taru sash gives all those jobs a shot at th3 which was the same yuly got. Blu mage can get th2 w/out /thf and I hope they dont' nerf that.

just clearing up some facts. I'm pretty tired of this discussion.

[Nawesemo]

Animated flourish is not consider a voke in that combo?[/QUOTE]

lol, you know I know you know its not.

[scaevola]

Camiie and Frank, nothing you've said about why BSTs should get more TH wouldn't apply to DNC. Should DNC not get more TH by those rationales?

WHY BST AND NOT EVERYBODY ELSE?

[tyrantsyn]

Animated flourish is not consider a voke in that combo?


lol, you know I know you know its not.
LoL /sigh
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Animated_Flourish

just go away.

[Nawesemo]

Its on the internet it must be true!!!! Have a dnc, and a war their thing, watch where the mob goes, annimated florish is annimated florish, provoke is provoke, if they were the same the would be well, the same, they are not, try again.

[Camiie]

Camiie and Frank, nothing you've said about why BSTs should get more TH wouldn't apply to DNC. Should DNC not get more TH by those rationales?

WHY BST AND NOT EVERYBODY ELSE?

The pet in question is a THF. Pets get the traits of the jobs they possess. At level 90, THF gets the TH3 trait. At level 90 Yuly, being a THF, should also get the TH3 trait along with I and II since it is automatically beyond the levels for those. A DNC is not a THF and does not get TH traits on its own. I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand.

[Arcon]

The pet in question is a THF. Pets get the traits of the jobs they possess. At level 90 THF gets the TH3 trait. At level 90 Yuly, being a THF, should also get the TH3 trait along with I and II. A DNC is not a THF. I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand.

Why just traits, why not spells? Why not job abilities? Why not combat skills and the associated weapons and weapon skills? Because pets are not players. Pets (as well as monsters) only have access to a subset of what's available to players. It's always been this way. Granted, it didn't manifest much in traits before, but that's just an arbitrary difference. Why traits but nothing else?

TH especially is an extremely powerful trait, more than most people give it credit for. TH2 over TH1 means you only have to kill two mobs instead of three, on average, to get your drop. Thus it saves you about 33% of your farming time (on single drops, unaffected by weakness staggers or anything other than TH). That is a huge difference. One that's worth subbing THF for, if you wanna reduce the amount of farming you want to do for a specific drop.

[Malthar]

Oh, and here comes Arcon. The lead singer in the choir of bst haters. You are late, sir.

Beastmasters do not have jug pets that can cast spells. They can charm pets that cast spells, however, and sic will actually allow these pets to cast spells if they're not in melee range; a worm, for example.

Pets cannot equip weapons so they don't have access to weaponskills. They do, however, possess the job traits for their jobs.

And as far as pets not being players, well, they may not be controlled by a human directly, but they are considered characters, essentially players, hence the acronym NPC.

TH is powerful? Really? Can TH 1-shot a mob? Does TH provide the additional effect "death" per proc? I think not.

Get your head on straight before you post and stop trolling the bst forums.

[FrankReynolds]

Why just traits, why not spells? Why not job abilities? Why not combat skills and the associated weapons and weapon skills? Because pets are not players. Pets (as well as monsters) only have access to a subset of what's available to players. It's always been this way. Granted, it didn't manifest much in traits before, but that's just an arbitrary difference. Why traits but nothing else?

TH especially is an extremely powerful trait, more than most people give it credit for. TH2 over TH1 means you only have to kill two mobs instead of three, on average, to get your drop. Thus it saves you about 33% of your farming time (on single drops, unaffected by weakness staggers or anything other than TH). That is a huge difference. One that's worth subbing THF for, if you wanna reduce the amount of farming you want to do for a specific drop.

There is a reason that you rarely ever see bsts (or any other job really) subbing thf. It offers no other benefit besides TH. Especially when soloing. The loss of kill speed and survival abilities from subbing thf almost completely (if not completely) negates the benefit of increased drops.

What's more, you still haven't explained how a TH3 pet is going to hurt some other job. I play thief all the time. At no point has anyone ever said "hey, can you swap to beast so we can get better drops?". If it takes bsts %33 less time to farm things, how is that any different from that guy switching to thief and how does that harm you either way?

The argument "This job can't have this ability because some other job has it" is broken logic in that there have always been jobs with the same / similar abilities since the release of this game. By that logic, pup (for example) would have to be completely removed from the game, as PUP and it's pet do almost nothing that isn't taken from another job.

[scaevola]

There is a reason that you rarely ever see bsts (or any other job really) subbing thf. It offers no other benefit besides TH. Especially when soloing. The loss of kill speed and survival abilities from subbing thf almost completely (if not completely) negates the benefit of increased drops.

the hits just keep on coming!

This argument can apply to literally any subjob. When I play SAM, I can sub DNC to heal myself a bit but I lose some offensive capability from not subbing WAR. Does this mean SAM should get Berserk?


What's more, you still haven't explained how a TH3 pet is going to hurt some other job. I play thief all the time. At no point has anyone ever said "hey, can you swap to beast so we can get better drops?". If it takes bsts %33 less time to farm things, how is that any different from that guy switching to thief and how does that harm you either way?

It hurts the game, because a good game involves meaningful choices and meaningful choices involve giving something else up.


The argument "This job can't have this ability because some other job has it" is broken logic in that there have always been jobs with the same / similar abilities since the release of this game. By that logic, pup (for example) would have to be completely removed from the game, as PUP and it's pet do almost nothing that isn't taken from another job.

PUP can't do all these things at the same time. You use Soulsoother to get healing and sacrifice damage from Sharpshot, etc. Meaningful choices.

Maybe Courier Carrie could get TH3?

[scaevola]

The pet in question is a THF. Pets get the traits of the jobs they possess. At level 90, THF gets the TH3 trait. At level 90 Yuly, being a THF, should also get the TH3 trait along with I and II since it is automatically beyond the levels for those. A DNC is not a THF and does not get TH traits on its own. I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand.

The idea that a mobs job should dictate what traits it gets with no regard to how those traits might otherwise affect the game basically means you think WAR mobs should get Fencer back.

[Nawesemo]

The everly elusive "balance" grasshopper, balance. It is bst only that can call yuly, and splitting the hair so to speak about its abilities not being unique to bst, is fail. It would be bst only w/ thf 3 and not have to sub /thf... And stilllll get to use /dnc, ... =unbalanced. When every other job (save blus weenie thf2, and, oooooo real thfs) has to sub thf to get. Your on the wanting end of this so we get why you don't get it. It can't, and shouldn't have happen(ed). It's as silly a thought as a blm wanting to have thf 3 attached to stone 2..... Think about it.

[Arcon]

Oh, and here comes Arcon. The lead singer in the choir of bst haters. You are late, sir.

I didn't have anything to say that others didn't say before now. Despite what you think, I'm not on a crusade against BST. I just think not all ideas are good, and this one isn't. Same as your last few ideas. Not everyone's creativity is beneficial to the community.


And as far as pets not being players, well, they may not be controlled by a human directly, but they are considered characters, essentially players, hence the acronym NPC.

So "non-player character" is "essentially [a] player" in your book? In what universe does that make sense?


TH is powerful? Really? Can TH 1-shot a mob? Does TH provide the additional effect "death" per proc? I think not.

Movement speed also can't 1-shot a mob. Does that mean it's not powerful? Not everything powerful is related to damage. What do you consider more powerful, an ability which kills a mob instantly, but disables any drops or an ability that gimps your damage by half but gives you guaranteed drops?


What's more, you still haven't explained how a TH3 pet is going to hurt some other job. I play thief all the time. At no point has anyone ever said "hey, can you swap to beast so we can get better drops?". If it takes bsts %33 less time to farm things, how is that any different from that guy switching to thief and how does that harm you either way?

It's not harmful to anyone, that doesn't mean it's a good idea. It wouldn't hurt anyone if WHM got a 0 MP, no enmity, instant-cast Curaga X. It would actually benefit a lot of other people too. Although one could argue that at least this idea is still somehow related to what the job actually does, which can't be said for BST and TH.

I simply see no reason at all for this. It's not required from a game-play perspective, nor does it make sense from a role-playing point of view. And most of all, for all this arguing it's still one of the minor issues BST should have with the job at this point (some of which were pointed out before), so complaining about it while SE basically already shot it down just seems completely pointless and arbitrary.

[Camiie]

Why just traits, why not spells? Why not job abilities? Why not combat skills and the associated weapons and weapon skills? Because pets are not players. Pets (as well as monsters) only have access to a subset of what's available to players. It's always been this way. Granted, it didn't manifest much in traits before, but that's just an arbitrary difference. Why traits but nothing else?

Because they had to draw a line somewhere? Is that the answer you're looking for? I guess they figured it was reasonable for a pet to be able to be able to double/triple attack, have a high rate of critical hits, or be drawn to shiny things (Treasure Hunter) while it would be unreasonable for a rabbit to have a Great Katana strapped to its head. Not to mention, samurai rabbits have already been done.



TH especially is an extremely powerful trait, more than most people give it credit for. TH2 over TH1 means you only have to kill two mobs instead of three, on average, to get your drop. Thus it saves you about 33% of your farming time (on single drops, unaffected by weakness staggers or anything other than TH). That is a huge difference. One that's worth subbing THF for, if you wanna reduce the amount of farming you want to do for a specific drop.

Double Attack, Triple Attack, Evasion Bonus, Magic Defense Bonus, etc. are powerful as well. Should BST pets have any traits at all? After all, every trait they could have is something players have access to naturally or have to sub for. Why is this only a problem when it's a THF trait? Most pets are WAR. Should WARs (including myself) be offended and rage against the BSTs? What makes THFs so special that their job traits are off limits while everyone else is fair game?

[Olor]

Seriously the BST hate is a little much. It's fine if people dislike BST, but maybe you should go to a different forum. It's unbelievable that BST is good at 1 and only 1 thing and people light their hair on fire. You aren't willing to invite bst to like any event, and then you're going to get mad that they solo things? #facepalm

[Malthar]

How about the devs weighing in here? Note, the original message is about giving DipperYuley the ability to proc higher TH, not giving DipperYuley TH3. I have re-posted the original message here for reference.

Ok, so SE gimped our pet TH down to one and reneged on the mention of releasing pet th gear. So how about this, keep th1 on both Yuley and Falcorr, but allow Yuley to proc th to higher levels with regular melee attacks. Falcorr got an attack boost and Yuley got nothing for having th removed. Yuley is a weaker pet than Falcorr and can barely hold hate from the master. Give Yuley the ability to proc th to higher levels.

If you like this idea, hit like.

[Amy]

I have bst leveled, I enjoy it, I see its usefulness in Dynamis. 200+ coins is np.... So why are people up in arms, pretending that the loss of TH3 has gimped their ability to solo? Srsly? are you that spoiled and entitled? You still get more than pretty much any other job by going on bst, even with silly little TH1.

Other people should rage more, like the jobs that have to /dnc to survive solo in dynamis, let alone to proc, giving up any and all TH unless they can a) wear, and b) have the TH sash. Bst is supposed to be a solo job, it does wonderfully in that regard. This sounds like a crap ton of q.q about something that is nearly irrelevant. Bst gets to /dnc to live (and mostly to proc JA) and have TH for drops... I really, really can't wrap my head around anyone who IS a bst, being mad about any of this. We got TH3 on a pet, and it was good. It was so good it got nerfed. That happens alot to many jobs.

Do we complain about the things that actually need fixed on bst? Nope! Let's complain about TH first..... really.

[Komori]

Does everyone who posts in this thread against Beastmaster somehow get to spend more than the maximum of 2 hours in Dynamis? Because from the sounds of it, you all live there. BST is regularly used for more than just Dynamis, soloing empyrean weapons for one. RDM can solo most old content as well and I guess they get no love from anyone either, I guess everyone just hates to see someone else able to do better with elss on their part.

[Amy]

Talking about being able to build TH on random NMs, for empyrean or anything else.... Guess what! same arguement. I solo'd almost all my items for 85 kannagi on my ninja... I didn't get any TH. Bst still gets TH1, still better than other jobs that solo. I, personally, used dynamis as an example because its all the same and I don't feel like listing every solo'able event in the game, because there are way too many. Bst can solo and have TH. And to bring up abyssea is silly because you choose yout atma then stand there. It takes zero skill to solo 90%, if not more, of abyssea content on bst.

Edit: for the incomplete ending. zero skill to solo 90% of abyssea allows you to stand there safely and use /thf for TH2, making the TH arguement moot and allowing you to use other pets to tank as they do so more efficiently. on rare mobs that you can do fine with 2 atma, you can even wear Dread for TH3... Bst has it better than they'll admit.

[Inertia]

Why do you want people to fight even more trivial fights? Killing the same insignificant enemies even more due to lower drop rates is only a trial of patience, not of skill. Limited access to TH is of benefit to nobody, so I can not fathom why anybody wants any job to have reduced access to it. THF already had higher TH, but that aside, that's a stupid niche to have, it needs something better than "less agonizing grind."

[Amy]

Same reason I don't want healing magic on heavy melee jobs. I don't want elemental nukes on paladin. There are limits through lore, history and playstyle that need to be maintained or jobs lose their individuality. FFXI has always been about trials of patience, or have you just started playing?

[Inertia]

Completely different thing. Those completely change playstyles. Treasure Hunter functions on "hit things, get stuff, except it's a little less horrible because your chance of actually getting stuff is slightly higher." Hey, since its so fun to just mindlessly grind shit, lets make everything 0.01% drop rate and 1 xp per kill. Endlessly doing the same thing for little chance of reward is the exact same game mechanic as sitting in front of a slot machine.

[Amy]

People love slot machines. To say that having/not having TH doesn't change playstyles is a silly statement. If i have TH without /thf then i'm not going to /thf. This is a drastic and dramatic change to playstyle. If i am farming I want TH, if not I'll just /dnc for near god mode.

[Arcon]

Because they had to draw a line somewhere?

And now they drew it at TH. Drawing the line at an entire category (all traits) is just arbitrary, drawing it at the content of those categories (some traits yes, others no) shows they actually put some thought in it.


Double Attack, Triple Attack, Evasion Bonus, Magic Defense Bonus, etc. are powerful as well. Should BST pets have any traits at all? After all, every trait they could have is something players have access to naturally or have to sub for. Why is this only a problem when it's a THF trait? Most pets are WAR. Should WARs (including myself) be offended and rage against the BSTs? What makes THFs so special that their job traits are off limits while everyone else is fair game?

It's not about THF traits, it's about TH. If TH wasn't a THF ability at all, this would still be a bad idea. Because other people would have to make big sacrifices to obtain it, where BST wouldn't. The traits you mentioned are powerful in terms of combat, TH is powerful in terms of utility, which are entirely seperate categories. TH is not gonna help with any fight, but it's a convenience boost in that you don't have to fight the same mob as many times as without to get your desired drop. It does not compare at all to any other traits you mentioned. It's like having a pet that raises all your skills by 1 point every 5min, just by having it out. Contributes nothing to combat, but gives benefits outside of it that save you time and that other jobs can't obtain natively.

[Komori]

Except we had to pay upward of 60~100k everytime we wanted that TH. And I've seen people shout in Jeuno on Bismarck for 20k~100k rewards to ask a Thief with high TH to come tag a mob for them.

There is really no difference, it doesn't affect me either way and people know it doesn't really affect them either. Square Enix nerfed Beastmaster because the rest of the community asked for it, not because they felt themselves that Pets having TH3 was wrong, or they wouldn't have given it to them to begin with. And the community thought that it would mean that BSTs would no longer be as commonplace in Dynamis without the TH3 and what did a selfish community get in return? The same number of BSTs in there longer because now they don't get the same amount of coin. Congratulations.

[Caketime]

What I've gathered from the last few pages is there are a great deal of non-BST who are extremely butthurt that we used to have TH3, and all this arguing coming from them is solely because getting it back would make them cry bitter tears at the fact that we can solo better than they can and still get better drops. But either way we still have TH, and we still solo better, which makes that Empyrean weapon you spent hundreds of hours building look silly. My Bunny hits harder than you~

[Arcon]

Square Enix nerfed Beastmaster because the rest of the community asked for it, not because they felt themselves that Pets having TH3 was wrong, or they wouldn't have given it to them to begin with.

None of this is even remotely correct. People never asked for it to be removed and SE never gave it to them in the first place. SE simply made a THF pet, who happened to have THF traits. And people never complained about TH, they complained about BST in Dynamis and especially BST behavior. People said long before this nerf happened that reducing TH wouldn't alleviate the issue.


The same number of BSTs in there longer because now they don't get the same amount of coin.

Again, completely wrong. People who make a relic, make another when they're done. People who are done with relics make money for relic and empyrean upgrades as well as mythics and any other items, of which there are a massive number over 1M in price these days. People will never not need money anymore. As such, people will always be farming more. Slightly increasing or decreasing BST's average Dynamis yield will make no difference in that matter.

[Caketime]

None of this is even remotely correct. People never asked for it to be removed and SE never gave it to them in the first place. SE simply made a THF pet, who happened to have THF traits. And people never complained about TH, they complained about BST in Dynamis and especially BST behavior. People said long before this nerf happened that reducing TH wouldn't alleviate the issue.

Actually sir, I can recall seeing a great deal of bitching regarding BST in Dynamis. The overwhelming amount of bitching about it is focused in several threads on the content forums, for example the "Nerf BST" thread which is a conglomeration of angst, whine, and cry about BST farming Dynamis more efficiently than other jobs. Many posters echoed the sentiments of the OP, agreeing that BST deserves to be nerfed because how dare we solo better than others as a solo job. There are many direct references throughout the thread regarding Dynamis currency, and it's just a humorous coincidence that shortly after that and other threads appeared discussing the same topic did our pets lose TH3.

Fact: Devs gave two of our pets TH3.
Fact: There are literally hundreds of whining posts about BST farming currency in Dynamis
Fact: Devs removed TH3 only after the tears began to literally drown them in their office cubicles.
Fact: Arcon is a banana.

P.S.: Our "behavior" is not BST exclusive, it is standard fare across all jobs. Jerks come in all flavors, dear.

[Arcon]

Actually sir, I can recall seeing a great deal of bitching regarding BST in Dynamis.

That's exactly what I said, as was the entire rest of your post. Don't need to reiterate to me what I already know, but thanks for trying.

[scaevola]

Except we had to pay upward of 60~100k everytime we wanted that TH. And I've seen people shout in Jeuno on Bismarck for 20k~100k rewards to ask a Thief with high TH to come tag a mob for them.


The gil-for-gear playstyle of BST is a major problem of the job, and I'd said as much earlier, but the answer to that problem is to make jugs cheaper.

[Malthar]

So Arcon, you agree that the rest of his post is a reiteration of what you already know?
So you agree that
Fact: Arcon is a banana.?

[Arcon]

So Arcon, you agree that the rest of his post is a reiteration of what you already know?
So you agree that ?

When I reply to trolls I ignore their troll attempts, so I ignored that statement. Anyone with half a brain will know to ignore it as well and instead stay on topic instead. Unlike you, apparently.

[Komori]

Why do people act like TH = ultimate advantage in the game anyway? I wouldn't be bothered with SE increasing drop rates across the board or just giving most jobs the ability to equip TH gear. Since a THF will always be able to do it better because they can build more TH besides what they have on gear and will always have the most gear for it. Thief will never be touched when it comes to replacing them for drop rates alone. But the outright butthurt or anger at the thought of a level 99 Thief pet "not deserving" or Beastmaster itself getting TH being this much of an outcry is ridiculous.

[FrankReynolds]

the hits just keep on coming!

This argument can apply to literally any subjob. When I play SAM, I can sub DNC to heal myself a bit but I lose some offensive capability from not subbing WAR. Does this mean SAM should get Berserk?

Except Sam never had berzerk. So, let's take away hasso instead. Then lets take away magic spells from automatons because the master can just sub BLM or whm yeah? And all the PUP 2 hour abilities for that matter... Maybe we take away cures from red mage and scholar because they can just sub whm for that right? That doesn't sound like firm logic to me. In fact it's broken on almost every job in the game. They all have some abilities / traits spells that are shared with some other job. Somehow it only applies to bst though I guess.


It hurts the game, because a good game involves meaningful choices and meaningful choices involve giving something else up.

What meaningful choice? Are people deciding not to go beast to farm now? I thought the meaningful choice was choosing what pet to use.


PUP can't do all these things at the same time. You use Soulsoother to get healing and sacrifice damage from Sharpshot, etc. Meaningful choices.

Bst sacrifice better stats on the pet to use the one with treasure hunter. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

To be honest, treasure hunter is a crap trait and I'm sick of thief having to be gimped because of it.

[Plasticleg]

this whole thread is filled with bsts crying over holding 4-6 mobs at a time, soloing neo-dyna NMs (with ease), and not getting all the drops that they want.

th mules are hard.

[FrankReynolds]

this whole thread is filled with bsts crying over holding 4-6 mobs at a time, soloing neo-dyna NMs (with ease), and not getting all the drops that they want.

th mules are hard.

Bst mules are hard

[Plasticleg]

Bst mules are hard

way to negate your idea lol

[Caketime]

That's exactly what I said, as was the entire rest of your post. Don't need to reiterate to me what I already know, but thanks for trying.

The first part of your previous post states that nobody complained about Pet TH, and only about BST "behavior" in Dynamis, yet our pets' TH was pretty much the sole reason why anyone complained. Oh, that and we were competing with them for mobs.

As far as behavior goes, I don't think it's right to try and say that we've got bad attitudes or we're spoiled. We have to make our own way in the game because parties and alliances don't like us for one reason or another, and we're treated rudely by the community at large, yet we rarely complain. Now that we are finally voicing our opinions about being shat on by the developers for the last couple of years it seems all the animosity that other players held for us is spilling out everywhere. We've come a long way from death ruolettes and exp penalties, but the job is in no way overpowered, and there's nothing wrong with the way we carry out our business nor is it any different than what every other group does. We are not red headed stepchildren any more than you all are master debaters.

I should point out that not all is bad and wrong with the job. It's more like a sack of poo with some gems in it. If you're lucky you might even find a decoder ring in there. Why do I still play it? Well, because poo washes off.

[FrankReynolds]

way to negate your idea lol

I'm not sure what mules have to do with this argument. Are you saying they should nerf thf because people have mules? or are you saying that a bst with a thf mule would be better than 2 bsts?

[Arcon]

Why do people act like TH = ultimate advantage in the game anyway?

Because that's what it is. TH is a massive advantage. It can mean the difference between hunting something for a month and a week. If you don't consider that a huge advantage then you got your own priorities wrong, not everyone else.

I wouldn't have any issue with SE lowering TH effects and increasing drops across the board. As a THF it's only natural to hate TH, because SE constantly use it as an excuse to not give our job any other buffs. Which is why I find it even stranger that BST are so obsessed with it. Would you like it if they increased your TH and neglected your job in other areas in the process?


The first part of your previous post states that nobody complained about Pet TH, and only about BST "behavior" in Dynamis, yet our pets' TH was pretty much the sole reason why anyone complained. Oh, that and we were competing with them for mobs.

I can't speak for others, but it certainly didn't seem that way to me. Peoples' main complaint was BST holding several mobs, while doing high damage and at the same having higher survival chances than anyone else, all while being solo. Sure, TH was mentioned occasionally by one or the other individual, but it was just as well pointed out by other people that decreasing their TH won't change anything (which it didn't).

[Malthar]

Arcon, bub, I'm just saying what you said.

[Quetzacoatl]

Seriously the BST hate is a little much. It's fine if people dislike BST, but maybe you should go to a different forum. It's unbelievable that BST is good at 1 and only 1 thing and people light their hair on fire. You aren't willing to invite bst to like any event, and then you're going to get mad that they solo things? #facepalm

You're wrong on that one, BSTs are being invited to Voidwatch for Pet Attacks more occasionally because White on Pet Attacks.

[Malthar]

That was before /fume was discovered.

[Camiie]

That was before /fume was discovered.

Exactly. No one is bothering with "odd" jobs in VW anymore. BST needs to be needed in groups before they start taking away any of our soloing advantages.

[Lyberty]

I as a THF myself wouldnt mind that BSTs could have their TH3 back, but infortunatelly most (not all) BSTs have very bad attitude when farming dyna, claiming 3 mobs at once which I personally dont think fair to other people farming there as well and because of that bad attitude people hate BSTs so much... Maybe If it wasnt for the bad attitude you guys would still have your TH3.

[Malthar]

What do you mean by "you guys"?!?!?!

[Lyberty]

By "you guys" I meant BSTs in general.

[Malthar]

First of all, don't consider abyssea, fell cleaved, pearl bst's true beastmasters. They didn't level bst in the old days where you'd take two steps forward some days then three steps back another. True beasts are very emphatic of others and we are very polite. It's the bandwaggon bsts to whom you should be aiming your comments.

[Caketime]

By "you guys" I meant BSTs in general.

I like this blanket, it looks warm and snuggly.

Would also like to point out that everyone would hold 3 mobs at a time if they could, and while I feel that is a bit rude to other people personally, who are any of us to dictate how others play the job or interact with the game world? Also, why are career BST players getting all of the flak for the stupidity of some punk kids who only use it for Dyna farming?

[Komori]

If anyone has personally seen me on BST with more than one mob it's probably because Falcorr's poor pathing caused him to link them all also. No one seems to remember that pets talk really weird routes just like monsters do! And it's not as easily to pull only one of them with Falcorr running all the way to the left before coming back to me. If you see more than one on me, take it. As long as you kill quickly, it'll respawn soon enough. But I don't go in Dynamis on BST anymore, I duo it with my friend while I'm on BLU since I got my Almace.

I know what greedy BSTs are like, and all you do is TAKE what is yellow, ignore what they say. They don't dictate the game. They didn't create it and they pay just as much as I do. People need to stop being so afraid of what people will say to them or what "moral law" your breaking when you tell someone in a overcamped spot to stop taking six mobs.

[scaevola]

It's not like pet special attacks are the only thing BST gets. You get axe and most of scythe as well.

Proc-wise, BST isn't meaningfully worse off than DRK or SAM.

The real reason nobody bothers bringing a BST to Voidwatch is because everybody knows a BST with absolute best-in-slot gear is still going to be behind a fair-to-decent WAR, SAM, or DRK because BST's gear scaling is horrible, so the BSTs don't suggest their BSTs over other jobs they have and the group-makers don't ask.

This gear-scaling problem facing BSTs was mentioned by exactly two posters in this thread: Arcon and myself.


Would also like to point out that everyone would hold 3 mobs at a time if they could, and while I feel that is a bit rude to other people personally, who are any of us to dictate how others play the job or interact with the game world? Also, why are career BST players getting all of the flak for the stupidity of some punk kids who only use it for Dyna farming?

Because, once again, this is absolutely 100% about Dynamis; any other context and BST can sub THF like any other job.

EDIT: BST would also be a good candidate to sub DNC in voidwatch and get most of the potential step procs, as well.

[FrankReynolds]

Because, once again, this is absolutely 100% about Dynamis; any other context and BST can sub THF like any other job.

So in a nut shell: BST can't haz nice things because then it would be good at one thing.

[scaevola]

So in a nut shell: BST can't haz nice things because then it would be good at one thing.

No, I say that because the insistence that this totally isn't about Dynamis is disingenuous; this technically doesn't have anything to do with why pet TH is a bad idea. BST is ALREADY the best available for that one particular thing (all farming, not just Dynamis).

I have said several times in this thread that I think BST has problems that can and really, really should be fixed (gil-for-gear playstyle, horrible gear scaling*, current buff-based metagame), but farming ability simply isn't one of them.

In other news, my realtor just called me to tell me somebody accepted my offer on their house. F yeah, homeowning.




*this is the real reason you see so many perle BSTs in Dynamis; it's not that they aren't "real BSTs", it's that they understand that upgrading their gear wouldn't really make much of a difference.

[Komori]

Really it's because people leveled the job solely to farm Dynamis and are pimped out SAM, DRK, WAR etc. any other time of the day.

[scaevola]

Also, I'm starting to get the sense that people don't actually understand how minimal the benefit of TH beyond 2 really is. You'll never see a difference between 2 and 3 without spreadsheeting thousands of kills.

So yeah, this really is about BSTs not feeling like they should have to sub THF like everybody else. What can you call that but entitlement?

[Komori]

It's not entitlement, it's paying 50~100k for TH3 or more just like people shout for it in Port Jeuno. I got a payout the other morning from someone shouting (on BST lol) for Thief with high TH for their Carabosse. This would be one thing if we had never gotten TH3 to begin with and there was no feeling of having candy snatched out of your hand after someone handed it to you. That's moreso what's going on, the only reason SE took it from us is because all of the other kids didn't like the fact that we got candy.

[scaevola]

If I could spend 100k for a stack of twelve items that would each give me TH3 for an hour, you bet your sweet ass I would be using it pretty much constantly.


This would be one thing if we had never gotten TH3 to begin with and there was no feeling of having candy snatched out of your hand after someone handed it to you. That's moreso what's going on, the only reason SE took it from us is because all of the other kids didn't like the fact that we got candy.

In the interests of solidarity, can I expect a post from you demanding I get 70+ TP Penta Thrusts back?

[Komori]

Then ask SE for it and stop griping and grumbling about Beastmaster?

[scaevola]

Then ask SE for it

No, because that item would not be a good suggestion.


and stop griping and grumbling about Beastmaster?



I am not griping and grumbling about Beastmaster. I am mocking spoiled children.

[Caketime]

*this is the real reason you see so many perle BSTs in Dynamis; it's not that they aren't "real BSTs", it's that they understand that upgrading their gear wouldn't really make much of a difference.

This made me lol in real life.

[Plasticleg]

Did everyone forget that our moogles can "change main job" so we can has all the TH we want?
I guess so.

[Jeyman]

No, because that item would not be a good suggestion.



I am not griping and grumbling about Beastmaster. I am mocking spoiled children.

Never post here but did you really just compare a nearly full tp regain to like 5% boost(if that) in common drops? That is almost equal to a brews TP regain without the attack boost.

Lets be a little more real here can we please? I am a bst who never does namis, I would like the TH for farming rare items with my LS who low mans shit more then anything else really.

[Arcon]

Never post here but did you really just compare a nearly full tp regain to like 5% boost(if that) in common drops? That is almost equal to a brews TP regain without the attack boost.

Over 33% reduction in time to acquire a single item. For NMs with a high respawn time/condition, you'll be a lot better off with TH than a brew, because kill time is rarely an issue, but NM availability is.


Lets be a little more real here can we please? I am a bst who never does namis, I would like the TH for farming rare items with my LS who low mans shit more then anything else really.

And what does that have to do with BST? Why not give WHM TH3? If you low man shit for drops one of you may as well come THF.

[scaevola]

Never post here but did you really just compare a nearly full tp regain to like 5% boost(if that) in common drops? That is almost equal to a brews TP regain without the attack boost.


No; since Komori's argument is that BSTs ought to get TH3 for no other reason than that they used to have it, her logic ought to apply to me getting 70 TP Pentas back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

[hiko]

If I could spend 100k for a stack of twelve items that would each give me TH3 for an hour, you bet your sweet ass I would be using it pretty much constantly.



In the interests of solidarity, can I expect a post from you demanding I get 70+ TP Penta Thrusts back?

with current STP trait/gear you'd get 100TP pentas (gogo farm ws proc mob)

[Caketime]

No; since Komori's argument is that BSTs ought to get TH3 for no other reason than that they used to have it, her logic ought to apply to me getting 70 TP Pentas back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

Penta's TP return was a bug, all multi-hit WS used to give high TP return. BST pets with TH were put in on purpose and only later removed due to tears. Penta spam sucked anyway, it made DRG a gimmick job with no other options until the devs addressed their disadvantages, but that's a story for another day.

Our pets all have jobs, and job traits just like we do, that's how the game was designed. Who are you to pick and choose which traits are OK and not OK for our pets to have? Whether you agree with it or not, the TH nerf was wrong and undeserved, and I still can't fathom why anyone is still blindly defending it, or coming up with asinine arguments as to why it was needed. I'd like to hear a reasonable argument as to exactly why the BST nerf was justified, something that will actually prove that it was overpowered, that BST was unbalancing the entire game, etc. All I've heard so far is "BST is mean!" and something like "TH allows BST to farm slightly faster, and that is terrible! They should sub THF like I'm not doing because I have a second account!"

[Arcon]

Penta's TP return was a bug, all multi-hit WS used to give high TP return.

It was not a bug, it was a feature. It was not "high TP", it was regular TP. Each hit of the WS gave normal TP return. It wasn't until they saw how broken it was (MNK with relic H2H spamming Asuran fists with zero delay) that they decided to nerf it to make all subsequent hits just add 1 TP instead.


Whether you agree with it or not, the TH nerf was wrong and undeserved, and I still can't fathom why anyone is still blindly defending it, or coming up with asinine arguments as to why it was needed.

Asked and answered:

Who are you to pick and choose which traits are OK and not OK for our pets to have?

So us saying what's OK or not OK is wrong, but you saying it is fine?


I'd like to hear a reasonable argument as to exactly why the BST nerf was justified, something that will actually prove that it was overpowered, that BST was unbalancing the entire game, etc.

Because TH is a massive upgrade of convenience, one that other jobs have to sacrifice a lot of damage potential, survivability or utility for to obtain. And considering that BST wasn't even on SE's ranked list of jobs that should be able to attain TH at all, it's still doing a lot better than it deserves by SE's standard. I'm pretty sure the only reason they didn't remove it entirely was to not upset BST further, otherwise they would have.

[Caketime]

It was not a bug, it was a feature. It was not "high TP", it was regular TP. Each hit of the WS gave normal TP return. It wasn't until they saw how broken it was (MNK with relic H2H spamming Asuran fists with zero delay) that they decided to nerf it to make all subsequent hits just add 1 TP instead.

No, it was a bug that needed to be fixed and was only glaringly obvious when Asuran Fists spam became popular.



So us saying what's OK or not OK is wrong, but you saying it is fine?

I never said that, which is why you are asking a question instead of making a statement.



Because TH is a massive upgrade of convenience, one that other jobs have to sacrifice a lot of damage potential, survivability or utility for to obtain. And considering that BST wasn't even on SE's ranked list of jobs that should be able to attain TH at all, it's still doing a lot better than it deserves by SE's standard. I'm pretty sure the only reason they didn't remove it entirely was to not upset BST further, otherwise they would have.

You're talking about sacrificing damage potential when farming, which is hilarious, and your entire argument boils down to "It's unfair!!!" which is equally hilarious. Our job has pets which also have jobs, and those jobs come with traits, Treasure Hunter happens to be one of those. It makes sense to me, and apparently it did to SE or they wouldn't have implemented them on purpose in the first place. The nerf itself is an example of public outcry and SE's hamfisted way of "fixing" the problem that was only a problem due to "me too!" dickbags that just want to exploit the flavor of the month to gain a slight edge, and guess what? Those people were never even affected by SE's solution in the first place, those of us who enjoy the job are the only ones still feeling it.

P.S.: Please outline SE standards so we can pinpoint exactly what is deserved. Thanks.

[Komori]

If it weren't for the high evasion that comes with them being a THF, I'd ask for them to be switched to something like WAR or an actual decent MNK pet or something for more attack power.

But we do still need an evasion tank pet, so meh. I guess we're looking at a nerf to all pets soon, removing any trait for them at all since pets with their job traits is overpowered. Ironically the community agrees that the one that affects nothing but drop rate and adds nothing else is the one that stings the most that we have.

[FrankReynolds]

Because TH is a massive upgrade of convenience, one that other jobs have to sacrifice a lot of damage potential, survivability or utility for to obtain. And considering that BST wasn't even on SE's ranked list of jobs that should be able to attain TH at all, it's still doing a lot better than it deserves by SE's standard. I'm pretty sure the only reason they didn't remove it entirely was to not upset BST further, otherwise they would have.

BSTs give up damage / utility to equip the THF pet just like other jobs do to sub THF. BST getting some extra currency, or soloing something big, incredibly slowly does not make the game unbalanced for other jobs.

[Nawesemo]

BSTs give up damage / utility to equip the THF pet just like other jobs do to sub THF. BST getting some extra currency, or soloing something big, incredibly slowly does not make the game unbalanced for other jobs.

No more than a Blm casting between fire and thunder..... It's a function of the main job, they lose nothing, ..... Are we being serious here?, because I can't tell.

[Komori]

I don't get your point, Nawesemo. A BST could kill signifigantly faster using a pet such as Gorefang etc. I've trio'd dynamis with my BST with a THF and DRK. And with a THF present I used Gorefang and the killspeed was ridiculous. We do less damage to gain TH from Falcorr or Yuly. It's the same issue of why would you go in Dynamis on THF, you have lower killspeed as a THF in Dynamis, but you have oodles of TH. So...it's the same situation.

[Arcon]

No, it was a bug that needed to be fixed and was only glaringly obvious when Asuran Fists spam became popular.

You have your definitions wrong. A bug is erroneous behavior, not unexpected behavior. This was unexpected behavior. Same as BST TH, see below.


You're talking about sacrificing damage potential when farming, which is hilarious, and your entire argument boils down to "It's unfair!!!" which is equally hilarious.

Why is that hilarious? That is entirely natural and the only reasonable thing to assume. Why should you be best at one situation and simultaneously the best at another?


Our job has pets which also have jobs, and those jobs come with traits, Treasure Hunter happens to be one of those. It makes sense to me, and apparently it did to SE or they wouldn't have implemented them on purpose in the first place.

They didn't. Pets having jobs has nothing at all to do with it. Pets aren't players, same rules don't apply and never did. If they did pets could be geared up and buffed and BST would effectively be two people at once. It seems that's your rationale for other people having a mule.


P.S.: Please outline SE standards so we can pinpoint exactly what is deserved. Thanks.

SE said themselves what order they want jobs to have TH in. I didn't make it up. I don't have the post here right now, if you're interested you can look it up or just not believe me.


BSTs give up damage / utility to equip the THF pet just like other jobs do to sub THF. BST getting some extra currency, or soloing something big, incredibly slowly does not make the game unbalanced for other jobs.


I don't get your point, Nawesemo. A BST could kill signifigantly faster using a pet such as Gorefang etc.

So why don't you go /THF and use a better pet? What's this entire debate about then?

[FrankReynolds]

So why don't you go /THF and use a better pet? What's this entire debate about then?

You really don't know why having TH on a pet is better than subbing THF? Well then I guess you have no basis for argument in the first place.

[Nawesemo]

I don't get your point, Nawesemo. A BST could kill signifigantly faster using a pet such as Gorefang etc. I've trio'd dynamis with my BST with a THF and DRK. And with a THF present I used Gorefang and the killspeed was ridiculous. We do less damage to gain TH from Falcorr or Yuly. It's the same issue of why would you go in Dynamis on THF, you have lower killspeed as a THF in Dynamis, but you have oodles of TH. So...it's the same situation.


BSTs give up damage / utility to equip the THF pet just like other jobs do to sub THF. BST getting some extra currency, or soloing something big, incredibly slowly does not make the game unbalanced for other jobs.

^^ in response to that.....
my point, the choice of bst pets is just like a blm's choice of fire or thunder, its a function of the main job not something they give up to gain the "thf", but everyone else (save blu who still gives up quite a bit to gain it) has to /thf. it's as goofy as a blm wanting thf traits on thunder 5. give it up. the argument is getting stupid.

[Arcon]

You really don't know why having TH on a pet is better than subbing THF? Well then I guess you have no basis for argument in the first place.

I know why it's better for Dynamis, which I don't care about at all, because BST's role in Dynamis is not threatened by anything.

And aside from that, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Don't talk about "we still have to sacrifice something" because using a THF pet doesn't compare to what every other job is required to give up in forms of utility, survivability and damage.

[Komori]

Except unless it's one of those jobs that has sash, in which case if it works like EVERY other piece of TH gear, it only requires touching the mob with it on and then switching back to your normal TP gear.

[Caketime]

You have your definitions wrong. A bug is erroneous behavior, not unexpected behavior. This was unexpected behavior. Same as BST TH, see below.

Being unexpected does not exempt it from being erroneous.



Why is that hilarious? That is entirely natural and the only reasonable thing to assume. Why should you be best at one situation and simultaneously the best at another?

Because your maximum damage potential shouldn't matter when farming, which is exactly what the THF pets are for, and what we've been talking about. I'm not sure where you're getting "best at one situation and another", I'm talking about farming with BST pets.


They didn't. Pets having jobs has nothing at all to do with it. Pets aren't players, same rules don't apply and never did. If they did pets could be geared up and buffed and BST would effectively be two people at once. It seems that's your rationale for other people having a mule.

Please show where it has been stated that pet jobs are not allowed to function in the same way as players for the purposes of combat.


SE said themselves what order they want jobs to have TH in. I didn't make it up. I don't have the post here right now, if you're interested you can look it up or just not believe me.

That post was a reaction to the community flipping out over Pet TH. They never expressed an order before then.


So why don't you go /THF and use a better pet? What's this entire debate about then?

Because that would require us to sub THF and not SCH or DNC. You know, since most of the time we're required to do things on our own so we don't have the convenience of a helper mage or a main job that specializes in magic damage and sports potent self heals. Though the post you're quoting is referring to group play, and why anyone would sub THF for group play anymore is beyond my comprehension. Might as well add THF.

[FrankReynolds]

I know why it's better for Dynamis, which I don't care about at all, because BST's role in Dynamis is not threatened by anything.

And aside from that, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Don't talk about "we still have to sacrifice something" because using a THF pet doesn't compare to what every other job is required to give up in forms of utility, survivability and damage.

And outside of dynamis, where would bst with a thf pet be breaking things? In abyssea, a plethora of other jobs have it better regardless of TH, due to weapon / magic procs being more powerful than TH. Where else is bst soloing and cleaning up on drops? I haven't seen any in Sea? Sky? Nyzul? Legion? Limbus? Assault? Einherjar? Let's face it. That TH nerf was a BSTDynamis nerf only, and it did nothing to improve the quality of the game for anyone.

[Nawesemo]

Because that would require us to sub THF and not SCH or DNC. You know, since most of the time we're required to do things on our own so we don't have the convenience of a helper mage or a main job that specializes in magic damage and sports potent self heals. Though the post you're quoting is referring to group play, and why anyone would sub THF for group play anymore is beyond my comprehension. Might as well add THF.

And we have a winner!!!! Here's a cookie.

[Caketime]

And aside from that, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Don't talk about "we still have to sacrifice something" because using a THF pet doesn't compare to what every other job is required to give up in forms of utility, survivability and damage.

Yuly takes hits like a grandmother with advanced degenerative bone disease and she hits like one too. Falcorr has more going for him, but not by much. He's still quite squishy against anything that can hit him, and Fantod is only spectacular against too weak mobs. Gorefang brings lots of damage, can take some hits in return and is quite reliable in a duo or trio. There are clear advantages and disadvantages to each pet if you actually play the job instead of just hating everything about it.

[Caketime]

And we have a winner!!!! Here's a cookie.

So what you're saying is I should sub a job that has no native heals, thereby forcing me to rely on Lulu's carrots or /heal to restore lost health, which in turn makes the subjob I chose ineffective at increasing my drops. You can at least use drains on BLM, if you ever take damage at all, so how much do I have to sacrifice before it's "fair"? If I have to force myself to be inefficient at surviving I might as well just say screw it and go WHM/THF to avoid the entire headache.

[Plasticleg]

So what you're saying is I should sub a job that has no native heals, thereby forcing me to rely on Lulu's carrots or /heal to restore lost health, which in turn makes the subjob I chose ineffective at increasing my drops. You can at least use drains on BLM, if you ever take damage at all, so how much do I have to sacrifice before it's "fair"? If I have to force myself to be inefficient at surviving I might as well just say screw it and go WHM/THF to avoid the entire headache.

how fitting for your name: "having your cake and eating it too"
sounds like you need to make some friends or a mule.

[Nawesemo]

So what you're saying is I should sub a job that has no native heals, thereby forcing me to rely on Lulu's carrots or /heal to restore lost health, which in turn makes the subjob I chose ineffective at increasing my drops. You can at least use drains on BLM, if you ever take damage at all, so how much do I have to sacrifice before it's "fair"? If I have to force myself to be inefficient at surviving I might as well just say screw it and go WHM/THF to avoid the entire headache.

Or.....waiiiiit for it....... You could be happy it is what it is and it wasn't totally taken off the pet. Or.......waaaaaaait for it, (cuz this one is a shocker to poor ostracized beastestes) you could make a friend, sub thf and have a blast!!!

The way you currently play would need to change a bit ....(read:you'd probably have to do something, like....*gasp hit the mob), monsters tend to rip whms faces off for so much as deodorizng a beastmaster during the pets fight,.....but yes bsts can have friends...

It is what it is, and I don't think it should change.

[Caketime]

Well at least the "You have no friends" argument hasn't been beaten to death yet.

[Nawesemo]

Well at least the "You have no friends" argument hasn't been beaten to death yet.

Lol, well why not farm with friends? Inefficient? Maybe. don't like to share? More likely.

[Caketime]

It isn't because I am greedy, it's because all of us are greedy, we're a bunch of nerds chasing shinies like magpies with a 9 to 5.

[Nawesemo]

It isn't because I am greedy, it's because all of us are greedy, we're a bunch of nerds chasing shinies like magpies with a 9 to 5.

Since were being honest, as a taru I don't like your pets very much. Wyverns for drgs too, they get in my camera and im sure if we could see it would be covered in ugly smelly pet slober, and plenty of galka poo, from one to many close /follows.

[Plasticleg]

Well at least the "You have no friends" argument hasn't been beaten to death yet.

are you bawwing over the inability to make a TH mule?
poor caketime.

[Caketime]

Inability and refusal are two different things.

[Nawesemo]

Inability and refusal are two different things.

Wooot!!! Good job, here's another cookie.

[Caketime]

You guys have convinced me. I should give SE more money.

[FrankReynolds]

Lol, well why not farm with friends? Inefficient? Maybe. don't like to share? More likely.

Broken logic. Why not just give all your stuff away? Why limit the sharing to the immediate drops? Just walk around naked and be awesome.

The point of dynamis is to make money and / or get a weapon. Sharing drops does nothing to achieve those ends no matter what job you are on.

http://i.qkme.me/3qdain.jpg

are you bawwing over the inability to make a TH mule?
poor caketime.

Actually what happened was people bawwed over having to make TH mules so that they could farm like bst, so they nerfed bst. Nice try though. FYI I have a TH mule. The nerf is still pointless, as are your comments.

[Nawesemo]

Ok then.... /em gives a puzzled face.

Sooooo....gil, currency, gear main motivation. Wouldn't just leveling dnc, and gearring it for dynamis, lock the sub, and hanging out by the bsts pool of mobs solo be more logical? ...yeah, logic sucks.

[scaevola]

Because that would require us to sub THF and not SCH or DNC. You know, since most of the time we're required to do things on our own so we don't have the convenience of a helper mage or a main job that specializes in magic damage and sports potent self heals. Though the post you're quoting is referring to group play, and why anyone would sub THF for group play anymore is beyond my comprehension. Might as well add THF.

It's almost like the tension between increased droprate and increased throughput is just one of many tensions and compromises that FFXI forces players to consider in a case by case basis and grow more competent at evaluating in the process of gaining experience and competence!

Almost as absurd as thinking that this kind of explicit design decision is the hallmark of a good game, I know!

[FrankReynolds]

Ok then.... /em gives a puzzled face.

Sooooo....gil, currency, gear main motivation. Wouldn't just leveling dnc, and gearring it for dynamis, lock the sub, and hanging out by the bsts pool of mobs solo be more logical? ...yeah, logic sucks.

So if you want to do good at bst... play dancer? Flawless logic.


Yes, I suppose it would, if you could find a bst that would let you hang out and steal enough mobs off him to make it more productive than just farming your own mobs... But then again, if that is the better option, then people who lobbied for a bst TH nerf really shot themselves in the foot there didn't they? I mean they could have stolen a mob with TH3 on it instead of TH 1.

[Nawesemo]

Ok then.... /em gives a puzzled face.

Sooooo....gil, currency, gear main motivation. Wouldn't just leveling dnc, and gearring it for dynamis, lock the sub, and hanging out by the bsts pool of mobs solo be more logical? ...yeah, logic sucks.

Staying on your main logic trail for using the precious bst is....well, fail. It is what it is.

[FrankReynolds]

Staying on your main logic trail for using the precious bst is....well, fail. It is what it is.

I'm not sure what your saying now. Did dnc just become better than bst for soloing dynamis? Or did they add another event where bsts hoard multiple mobs to proc them?

[Plasticleg]

Staying on your main logic trail for using the precious bst is....well, fail. It is what it is.

lol Awesemo, Mrkillface is pretty phail.
They are just a spoiled person who wants to vanilla farm neo-dyna with BST+THF without using their noodle.

What a waste of money.

[Nawesemo]

I'm not sure what your saying now. Did dnc just become better than bst for soloing dynamis? Or did they add another event where bsts hoard multiple mobs to proc them?

it is what it is... but your catching on.

[FrankReynolds]

it is what it is... but your catching on.

Are you just saying things that you read on urban dictionary.com? How is dancer being a better job to farm dynamis on in any way a good argument for keeping TH3 off of pets?


lol Awesemo, Mrkillface is pretty phail.
They are just a spoiled person who wants to vanilla farm neo-dyna with BST+THF without using their noodle.

What a waste of money.

None of what you just said made any sense whatsoever. I feel like you were trying to insult me, but you didn't say anything that made enough sense to be an insult really.

[Nawesemo]

Broken logic.

The point of dynamis is to make money and / or get a weapon.
.

You said it not me......

[Caketime]

The point of Dynamis is friendship and togetherness! Also rainbows.

[FrankReynolds]

You said it not me......

And I'm advocating a faster method for doing that. How is that quote in any way contradictory to anything else I have suggested? Or were you just quoting for awesomness? ;)

[Nawesemo]

And I'm advocating a faster method for doing that. How is that quote in any way contradictory to anything else I have suggested? Or were you just quoting for awesomness? ;)

No you're not, you're advocating that s.e. implement another level of thf on a bst pet.

but let’s back up a second because you seem to be getting confused.


someone said......

So what you're saying is I should sub a job that has no native heals, thereby forcing me to rely on Lulu's carrots or /heal to restore lost health, which in turn makes the sub job I chose ineffective at increasing my drops. You can at least use drains on BLM, if you ever take damage at all, so how much do I have to sacrifice before its "fair"? If I have to force myself to be inefficient at surviving I might as well just say screw it and go WHM/THF to avoid the entire headache.

and I responded with something snarky but was to the effect of my next comment...

Lol, well why not farm with friends? Inefficient? Maybe. don't like to share? More likely.

and was ... well :/ responded to with...

It isn't because I am greedy, it's because all of us are greedy, we're a bunch of nerds chasing shinies like magpies with a 9 to 5.


but you decided to quote me out of context but hey .. it happens, ...

Lol, well why not farm with friends? Inefficient? Maybe. don't like to share? More likely.
with....

Broken logic. Why not just give all your stuff away? Why limit the sharing to the immediate drops? Just walk around naked and be awesome.

The point of dynamis is to make money and / or get a weapon. Sharing drops does nothing to achieve those ends no matter what job you are on.

There was a reason ancient dynamis shells leaders and a handful of people accomplished their Relics ... dogh...

and here's the kicker.
Dnc/locked nets more. "." <<<< 100's all day but you knew that.



Back to why bst should get their thf3 back at noon. ( Your arguement that dynamis onry is just silly... if they don't have to spend as much time, effort nor brain power farming anything, cuz sickin a overpowered tank pet on another monster is soooo hard, then it effects my experience, my gil, and my farming, without.. locking their sub /thf ka peesh?

If I have to , so should you ... << see what i did there. :D Balance grasshopper Balance.

[Caketime]

Are you high?

[Arcon]

None of what you just said made any sense whatsoever. I feel like you were trying to insult me, but you didn't say anything that made enough sense to be an insult really.

Sadly, this thread seems to run on troll attempts and insults now. Malthar, Caketime, Plasticleg and Nawesemo don't say anything relevant to add to the conversation and haven't for a while. It seems like an argument between scaevola, you and me at this point. Which is why I'll sign out of this discussion, because while I don't agree with your opinion, it's at least a valid one and I feel I won't be able to convince you at this point. Good luck, if you try to further argue with them.

[Nawesemo]

here ya go fixed that for you.


Sadly, this thread seems to run on troll attempts and insults now. Malthar, Caketime, Plasticleg and Nawesemo, Arcon, and the 50 other posters don't say anything relevant to add to the conversation and haven't for a while. It seems like an argument between scaevola, you and me and a brick wall at this point. Which is why I'll sign out of this discussion, because while I don't agree with your opinion, it's at least a valid one and I feel I won't be able to convince you at this point. Good luck, if you try to further argue with them.

lol ok kettle. I think I've made my point pretty clear. bst=bst thf=thf and well there's a gray area being happy it's there is the only way. simple enough.

[Malthar]

Hey, don't label me, man. The original gist of the thread is to allow Dipper Yuley to proc TH to higher levels.

[Camiie]

Hey, don't label me, man. The original gist of the thread is to allow Dipper Yuley to proc TH to higher levels.

Let it start at TH1 and give it a chance to proc up to TH3. Heck if that puts people's panties in a wad give it a chance to proc up to TH2. Just a random chance on hit. It doesn't even have to be a high chance. Heck if that's still a problem make it so it resets back to TH1 if your pet hits another mob. I have a feeling that still won't appease anyone against this.

[scaevola]

why


only


bst

[FrankReynolds]

why


only


bst

Because ninja can't equip jugs and call pets with different jobs/abilities. If they wanted to add a similar automaton frame or head to pup, or give DRG the ability to call different wyverns, I would see no problem adding it to them too. Other jobs can get TH throgh gear if they feel like adding more of that. Honestly, the more jobs the better. Let's just dead the idea that Thief needs to suck because they haz the TH and make bsts happy while we're at it ;)

[scaevola]

Actually, I thought back on something I said in passing on a previous page, and I could TOTALLY GET BEHIND a stackable consumable that gave you TH3 for an hour, provided you had to purchase these at a high price (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oXx0qwe0wc) (say, 10k per) from vendors and they were EX.

I dislike the idea of everybody having heavy TH on demand but not nearly enough to oppose something I know would be a really good way to get massive amounts of gil out of circulation.

[FrankReynolds]

Actually, I thought back on something I said in passing on a previous page, and I could TOTALLY GET BEHIND a stackable consumable that gave you TH3 for an hour, provided you had to purchase these at a high price (say, 10k per) from vendors and they were EX.

I dislike the idea of everybody having heavy TH on demand but not nearly enough to oppose something I know would be a really good way to get massive amounts of gil out of circulation.

Maybe even 100k. Would probably still sell like hot cakes.

[scaevola]

It almost certainly would, though 100k might discourage people from loading up on them for general farming sessions which may or may not affect overall sales.

[Nawesemo]

Actually, I thought back on something I said in passing on a previous page, and I could TOTALLY GET BEHIND a stackable consumable that gave you TH3 for an hour, provided you had to purchase these at a high price (say, 10k per) from vendors and they were EX.

I dislike the idea of everybody having heavy TH on demand but not nearly enough to oppose something I know would be a really good way to get massive amounts of gil out of circulation.



Maybe even 100k. Would probably still sell like hot cakes.

I like these ideas.

[Delvish]

Eh, I have to add a maybe on this consumable. The conflict is the 50k for a stack of Gorefang Hobs plus 120k for a stack of TH3. TH1 for 60k may still win out over TH3 for 170k in Dynamis. To match that 120k selling coins at avg. 7k per, need 17~ more coins per run to break even. I do dynamis twice a day with a THF and a BST, and I'm not sure I always pull away that many more currency per run on THF with TH8 and my BST is rather gimpy by comparison (not perle gimp but 3/5 +1 and askar).

[Zagen]

Dnc/locked nets more. "." <<<< 100's all day but you knew that.
Don't get a White !! in a run and you're not going to come close to what BST is capable of getting with just TH1. 1% is 1% after all. Even with 1 White !! your DNC has to be fairly pimped out to keep up with a BST.

[scaevola]

Yeah, it's generally agreed that if you're alone, locking your sub on DNC is seriously not worth it. Even if you get a 100, which is by no means a sure thing, you may or may not be able to get more than you could by not giving up TH and seriously destroying your kill rate by virtue of significantly lower stats.


Eh, I have to add a maybe on this consumable. The conflict is the 50k for a stack of Gorefang Hobs plus 120k for a stack of TH3. TH1 for 60k may still win out over TH3 for 170k in Dynamis. To match that 120k selling coins at avg. 7k per, need 17~ more coins per run to break even. I do dynamis twice a day with a THF and a BST, and I'm not sure I always pull away that many more currency per run on THF with TH8 and my BST is rather gimpy by comparison (not perle gimp but 3/5 +1 and askar).

I can confidently say I would spend 100k for a two-hour TH3 (that didn't wear on death because I am bad; I'm not asking for that) in Dynamis on DNC, because I think I could make up the difference by going DNC/NIN for DCs rather than DNC/THF and dumping a lot of extra TP into kill rate.

The problem is spending two unbroken hours in Dynamis fighting DCs, which I have a hard time finding fun with any regularity, but that's neither here nor there.

[Nawesemo]

Don't get a White !! in a run and you're not going to come close to what BST is capable of getting with just TH1. 1% is 1% after all. Even with 1 White !! your DNC has to be fairly pimped out to keep up with a BST.

In that segment the arguement is efficiency, and sharing, gimmie a dnc/00 a thf/dnc, and they smoke the poor solo bst. Duo bst... Etc.. dnc/00 rains procs....procs make currency drop.

It's the sharing part people can't handle, and driving force behind the desire to get a thf 3 pet. (You know, so the bst dont have to need someone else), and that is funny, considering its bsts crying in the past about not being included. Its an emo job in a otherwise peach world.

[Zagen]

In that segment the arguement is efficiency, and sharing, gimmie a dnc/00 a thf/dnc, and they smoke the poor solo bst. Duo bst... Etc.. dnc/00 rains procs....procs make currency drop.

It's the sharing part people can't handle, and driving force behind the desire to get a thf 3 pet. (You know, so the bst dont have to need someone else), and that is funny, considering its bsts crying in the past about not being included. Its an emo job in a otherwise peach world.
Your BST/DNC needs to improve then.

DNC/00 has 1 more proc available than /DNC so don't BS about "rains procs". BST/DNC has Feral Howl every 5 minutes and Pet TP move about every minute (realistically less but you'll run out of charges at some point). Sure it's not every 30 seconds like Wild Flourish but then again a BST is dishing out more damage than a DNC/00. Oh and by the way my statement about "don't get a white !!" applies to a DNC/00 and THF/DNC duo compared to 2 solo BST/DNCs.

I duo with my friend as DNC/00 and THF/DNC and guess what unless we're pulling in 2 Whites a run it's a toss up on if we beat our numbers soloing as BST/DNC, usually in favor of the duo but a few runs we labeled TH fail runs. Sure we'll smoke the numbers of my gimp BST mule but she's gimp.

BST doesn't need more TH, all the nerf did was prove how little TH2+ really matters.

Edit: Forgot opting for Wild Flourish as a proc also destroys your damage potential.

[Nawesemo]

Your BST/DNC needs to improve then.

DNC/00 has 1 more proc available than /DNC so don't BS about "rains procs". BST/DNC has Feral Howl every 5 minutes and Pet TP move about every minute (realistically less but you'll run out of charges at some point). Sure it's not every 30 seconds like Wild Flourish but then again a BST is dishing out more damage than a DNC/00. Oh and by the way my statement about "don't get a white !!" applies to a DNC/00 and THF/DNC duo compared to 2 solo BST/DNCs.

I duo with my friend as DNC/00 and THF/DNC and guess what unless we're pulling in 2 Whites a run it's a toss up on if we beat our numbers soloing as BST/DNC, usually in favor of the duo but a few runs we labeled TH fail runs. Sure we'll smoke the numbers of my gimp BST mule but she's gimp.

BST doesn't need more TH, all the nerf did was prove how little TH2+ really matters.

Edit: Forgot opting for Wild Flourish as a proc also destroys your damage potential.

The white !! Says hi. Thf matters its the difference between a run of singles, and a run of quad's. Take a thf/dnc along on a solo run with the bst (ok technically a duo), have the thf tag each mob.... Proc it, then kill it. Then try without the thf (and using yuly for this test is cheating). Tell me what run netted more.

Bst is just safer. And you know it. Dnc/locked is going to help a lot more than thf 3 on yuly in the currency dropping department

[Zagen]

The white !! Says hi. Thf matters its the difference between a run of singles, and a run of quad's. Take a thf/dnc along on a solo run with the bst (ok technically a duo), have the thf tag each mob.... Proc it, then kill it. Then try without the thf (and using yuly for this test is cheating). Tell me what run netted more.

Bst is just safer. And you know it. Dnc/locked is going to help a lot more than thf 3 on yuly in the currency dropping department
I've built 2 relics (apoc mine, mandau my friend's), and along the way my friend and I tried various combinations. That I can recall some where:

BLU + THF
NIN + THF
NIN + DNC
THF + RDM
BST + BST (oddly enough netted less than solo, though probably cuz we didn't split up and use different camps)
DNC + THF (with and without subs)
DNC + NIN

Probably some I'm forgetting but you get the point. We compared all our duo runs to our solo BST runs. Why? Because our BST runs have been the benchmark to beat, heck I even compared my BLU/DNC solo runs which were better than my BST solos until my gear improved on BST. All our tests were post pet TH nerf.

The biggest reason we duoed was because it was more fun and allowed us to play more aggressively than BST/DNC solo not because it led to more coins. Until we started messing with DNC/00 + THF duo nothing compared to BST/DNC numbers solo, we still duoed because it was less boring and usually more amusing. You know that friendship and sharing crap you're talking about.

If you want safer then go BLU/DNC, well if you know how to play the job, as it isn't idiot/gimp proof like BST (this is general statement before you think I'm talking about you specifically and not the job). 1 shot TE stats, Light + Dark sleeps, ability to zerg a monster independent of JA timers, Curing from Waltz, MP, or WS. Oh and BLU/DNC can have TH2 since you think it matters that much.

[Nawesemo]

I've built 2 relics (apoc mine, mandau my friend's), and along the way my friend and I tried various combinations. That I can recall some where:

BLU + THF
NIN + THF
NIN + DNC
THF + RDM
BST + BST (oddly enough netted less than solo, though probably cuz we didn't split up and use different camps)
DNC + THF (with and without subs)
DNC + NIN

Probably some I'm forgetting but you get the point. We compared all our duo runs to our solo BST runs. Why? Because our BST runs have been the benchmark to beat, heck I even compared my BLU/DNC solo runs which were better than my BST solos until my gear improved on BST. All our tests were post pet TH nerf.

The biggest reason we duoed was because it was more fun and allowed us to play more aggressively than BST/DNC solo not because it led to more coins. Until we started messing with DNC/00 + THF duo nothing compared to BST/DNC numbers solo, we still duoed because it was less boring and usually more amusing. You know that friendship and sharing crap you're talking about.

If you want safer then go BLU/DNC, well if you know how to play the job, as it isn't idiot/gimp proof like BST (this is general statement before you think I'm talking about you specifically and not the job). 1 shot TE stats, Light + Dark sleeps, ability to zerg a monster independent of JA timers, Curing from Waltz, MP, or WS. Oh and BLU/DNC can have TH2 since you think it matters that much.

Tentatively, I agree with everything here.

[Komori]

DNC/00 Does not equal an instant relic btw, white procs are extremely rare. I've tried DNC/00 before with a friend and it can potentially net you more but that's potentially, I personally got unlucky and never got it to proc but I've heard from others you have. But I'd rather have consistent high progression going on my BLU/DNC since I know have Almace and duoing Dynamis with my THF friend.

[Caketime]

In that segment the arguement is efficiency, and sharing, gimmie a dnc/00 a thf/dnc, and they smoke the poor solo bst. Duo bst... Etc.. dnc/00 rains procs....procs make currency drop.

It's the sharing part people can't handle, and driving force behind the desire to get a thf 3 pet. (You know, so the bst dont have to need someone else), and that is funny, considering its bsts crying in the past about not being included. Its an emo job in a otherwise peach world.

I think it's funny that you've been repeating that BST just doesn't want to share for like 14 pages, but you still won't acknowledge what I pointed out the other day. You can't possibly try and claim that BST is just greedy and emo and don't want to share while at the same time trying to paint a picture that shows all other players living in harmony because it isn't true. Look at how eagerly you're posting against the idea of Yuly procing TH3.

Before you go and try to say I need to go make friends or whatever, I'd like to point out that you don't know me or my friends, who I play with or what I do. I won't imply anything about you or your social life to try and prove my argument, so please don't do that to me.

[Nawesemo]

It isn't because I am greedy, it's because all of us are greedy, we're a bunch of nerds chasing shinies like magpies with a 9 to 5.

ouch....try again.

[Nawesemo]

Are you high?

darn... ...

[Nawesemo]

I think it's funny that you've been repeating that BST just doesn't want to share for like 14 pages, but you still won't acknowledge what I pointed out the other day. You can't possibly try and claim that BST is just greedy and emo and don't want to share while at the same time trying to paint a picture that shows all other players living in harmony because it isn't true. Look at how eagerly you're posting against the idea of Yuly procing TH3.

Before you go and try to say I need to go make friends or whatever, I'd like to point out that you don't know me or my friends, who I play with or what I do. I won't imply anything about you or your social life to try and prove my argument, so please don't do that to me.

lol you're kinda funny... almost but not. thank you for the giggle though.

[Nawesemo]

DNC/00 Does not equal an instant relic btw, white procs are extremely rare. I've tried DNC/00 before with a friend and it can potentially net you more but that's potentially, I personally got unlucky and never got it to proc but I've heard from others you have. But I'd rather have consistent high progression going on my BLU/DNC since I know have Almace and duoing Dynamis with my THF friend.


DNC/00 Does not equal an instant relic btw

O.o Who said that? Did I say that? ... But now that you mention it, it certainly helps:D


white procs are extremely rare.

Extremely... Like Super-duper? No... They’re common if you go dnc/00 (kind of the point yeah?).. Next part explains a bit....


I personally got unlucky

and I completely understand this next part...


But I'd rather have consistent high progression going on my BLU/DNC

If it works for you I'm not going to knock it, I made noise on blm, and blm just sucks for dynamis, 93 currency /blush (hey it was blm) (sleep dia aspir spam ftw)


duoing Dynamis with my THF friend

Fun hu? :D Don't go no where without your Thf Friend.

[Lollerblades]

They took it off BST for a reason , they don't have to tell us why they did it ... All this whinging and moaning won't get it you back anytime soon

That being said I haven't got a problem with BST in namis , if it's overcrowded use your brains and move to a different pop area ...

[Komori]

They took it off thanks to the rest of the playerbase whining about it. And you white proc how many times if lucky with Dancer with sub taken down? 2 times at the luckiest of times and often times none or just once per entry? I can solo 200+ as easily on BLU as I could back on BST and on top of that, proc a mob at any point of the day so I could honestly bypass having to keep switching around mobs.

But it's not really a point of which job does the best in Dynamis. Everyone has their choice of what job they want to play, people should be able to play Beastmaster when they want to, which is a solo job. It can work well in groups if such a group allows them but people typically jump on it when they don't want to be bothered waiting on someone else. So it shouldn't have to boil down to "Bring a THF friend" for every situation, period.

[FrankReynolds]

SO for a recap here...

1) TH3 nerf made BSTs annoyed and did nothing for other jobs
2) Farming with DNC/000 and another character as a duo yields better profits than soloing on BST (irrelevant)
3) No one has a valid reason for removing TH3 from BST pets other than "Cuz I just don't like it"

[Nawesemo]

SO for a recap here...

1) TH3 nerf made BSTs annoyed and did nothing for other jobs
2) Farming with DNC/000 and another character as a duo yields better profits than soloing on BST (irrelevant)
3) No one has a valid reason for removing TH3 from BST pets or adding it to any other jobs random abilites other than "If I can't why should you?". Fixed that for ya.

[Arcon]

1) TH3 nerf made BSTs annoyed and did nothing for other jobs

It made some other jobs happy, even if it didn't help them. That's just as good a reason for it as annoying BST is a reason against it.


3) No one has a valid reason for removing TH3 from BST pets other than "Cuz I just don't like it"

Which isn't an invalid reason, because SE tries to do what people like, and if most people dislike it, it may well count as a reason for them. Aside from that, here's another reasons: SE decided that BST shouldn't rank in the list for TH effectiveness, and they're trying to keep the game in line with that plan.

Here's two of my reasons (unrelated to the reasons above, which may apply to SE's thinking):
1. TH is extremely powerful. No job (including THF) should be able to get it that high. What someone else said before makes a lot of sense, to make the game rely less on TH by increasing the overall drop rate and make TH give minor boosts instead. However, until that happens, it's pointless to give BST a huge advantage over all other jobs in an area where it's already better than most.
2. There is absolutely no reason for it. THF pet makes no difference. I already said it's completely arbitrary to make pets get job traits but nothing else a job provides. Secondly, even though it is a THF, TH is not battle related, it's a matter of convenience, and it's the only job trait I can think of where this applies (together with Gilfinder, which is in the same boat). As such it's not surprising to treat it differently.

If people keep insisting on bringing the argument that it's simply a THF pet, so it's natural to have it, I have a suggestion that would completely solve the problem for everyone involved: remove THF pets. That way no pets have a reason to have TH anymore, so no one should feel offended for not having it. Unless it really is just greed that drives people.

[FrankReynolds]

. Fixed that for ya.


Flawed logic is flawed. Saying no job can have an ability that my favorite job doesn't have is not a valid argument for anything.

You have absolutely no stake in this discussion and no valid arguments to make. Grats on your Post +1 posts though.

[Nawesemo]

Flawed logic is flawed. Saying no job can have an ability that my favorite job doesn't have is not a valid argument for anything.

You have absolutely no stake in this discussion and no valid arguments to make. Grats on your Post +1 posts though.
If no valid argument was made, there wouldn't be an argument..... Logic, I dont think it means what you think it means.
Actually everyone who plays is effected, more drops for bsts, less profit for me.. my place in this world is small, but I like to think i pay for it as much as any other.

[FrankReynolds]

If no valid argument was made, there wouldn't be an argument..... Logic, I dont think it means what you think it means.

Just because your argument is invalid doesn't mean I can't beat my head against the wall and continue to debate it. You can claim the nerf was needed because it made the ocean dry up and as long as my opinion diffrers from yours, we can have an argument. No matter how stupid it is, it's still an argument. But here's to arguing about arguing :)


Actually everyone who plays is effected, more drops for bsts, less profit for me.. my place in this world is small, but I like to think i pay for it as much as any other.

Hmmm... more flawed logic. Lowering BST drops just means that BSTs spend more time in dynamis, which means that you spend more time competing with them for mobs instead of competing on price. The thing is that there is no shortage of people buying currency. There is a shortage of good spots to farm it.

[FrankReynolds]

It made some other jobs happy, even if it didn't help them. That's just as good a reason for it as annoying BST is a reason against it.

Which isn't an invalid reason, because SE tries to do what people like, and if most people dislike it, it may well count as a reason for them. Aside from that, here's another reasons: SE decided that BST shouldn't rank in the list for TH effectiveness, and they're trying to keep the game in line with that plan.

Yeah, SE should change things people don't like if that thing they don't like actually affects them. No one who plays bst said "Man, I'm sick of all these drops. Make them horrible so that I can beat my head on the wall some more!".

It's been repeated enough already that this nerf had virtually no affect on people who don't play bst. SE did nothing to help anyone except haters who just don't like the idea of other people having nice things. It did not cause people to come to dynamis on jobs that kill slower and get all friendly about sharing camps and leave early because they no longer want currency.

When normal people see someone else with something they like, they try to figure out how they can get one of their own.

Sociopaths try to figure out how they can ruin it for the other guy so that no one has one.

For example, I really like H2H. I would like for dancer to have a high skill and access to good H2H weapons / weapon skills. I think H2H makes more sense on dancer than daggers. I'm not going to spam up the forums with requests that they nerf H2H just because I can't have it on my dancer.


Here's two of my reasons (unrelated to the reasons above, which may apply to SE's thinking):
1. TH is extremely powerful. No job (including THF) should be able to get it that high. What someone else said before makes a lot of sense, to make the game rely less on TH by increasing the overall drop rate and make TH give minor boosts instead. However, until that happens, it's pointless to give BST a huge advantage over all other jobs in an area where it's already better than most.

Let's not kid ourselves. TH3 was a minor convenience for BSTs and the people that have to compete with them for claims. That is all. There was no winner here. No matter how shitty you make drops for BST it's not going to make them stop doing the things that annoy you. It's actually going to force them to do it more.


2. There is absolutely no reason for it. THF pet makes no difference. I already said it's completely arbitrary to make pets get job traits but nothing else a job provides. Secondly, even though it is a THF, TH is not battle related, it's a matter of convenience, and it's the only job trait I can think of where this applies (together with Gilfinder, which is in the same boat). As such it's not surprising to treat it differently.

If people keep insisting on bringing the argument that it's simply a THF pet, so it's natural to have it, I have a suggestion that would completely solve the problem for everyone involved: remove THF pets. That way no pets have a reason to have TH anymore, so no one should feel offended for not having it. Unless it really is just greed that drives people.

Calling the desire to get an item in a reasonable amount of time greedy is quite a stretch. I mean why not get rid of bazaars, trades and the AH? Only greedy people buy something that they could just spend weeks / months / years farming themselves right? Your just drawing the line for what is and isn't greedy at a place that is convenient for your argument.

Sorry if I come off as a douche btw. I do actually respect your opinion and I appreciate that your posts actually make sense.

[Nawesemo]

Just because your argument is invalid doesn't mean I can't beat my head against the wall and continue to debate it. You can claim the nerf was needed because it made the ocean dry up and as long as my opinion diffrers from yours, we can have an argument. No matter how stupid it is, it's still an argument. But here's to arguing about arguing :)



Hmmm... more flawed logic. Lowering BST drops just means that BSTs spend more time in dynamis, which means that you spend more time competing with them for mobs instead of competing on price. The thing is that there is no shortage of people buying currency. There is a shortage of good spots to farm it.


Just because your argument is invalid doesn't mean I can't beat my head against the wall and continue to debate it
well you could, but it makes you kinda silly for agruing against a invalid point, if it in fact was invalid.

Lowering BST drops just means that BSTs spend more time in dynamis


um... no they wont... they uh, kinda can't? (time limit)


you spend more time competing with them for mobs
I don't as it is. You keep bringing up dynamis like it's everything.

[Malthar]

I'm just wondering when the devs are going to weigh in here.
Note, the original gist of the thread was to allow Yuley to proc higher levels of TH.

[FrankReynolds]

well you could, but it makes you kinda silly for agruing against a invalid point, if it in fact was invalid.

I look at it more like skilling up on too weak mobs.


um... no they wont... they uh, kinda can't? (time limit)

Same applies to you. When you come back the next day, that same bst is there too. He doesn't just stop going after a certain number of days just because you think he should have been done by then. He keeps coming back until he gets what he was after.



I don't as it is. You keep bringing up dynamis like it's everything.

I asked before and the response was crickets. In what other content were people using BST pets to solo their way to gear faster than other jobs? or do you know about some unreleased event that bsts are gonna be the bees knees in?

[Nawesemo]

I look at it more like skilling up on too weak mobs.



Same applies to you. When you come back the next day, that same bst is there too. He doesn't just stop going after a certain number of days just because you think he should have been done by then. He keeps coming back until he gets what he was after.

They'd be in there regardless wait for it.... becuase it's easy.




I asked before and the response was crickets. In what other content were people using BST pets to solo their way to gear faster than other jobs? or do you know about some unreleased event that bsts are gonna be the bees knees in?


Actually everyone who plays is effected, more drops for bsts, less profit for me.. my place in this world is small, but I like to think i pay for it as much as any other.

try again.

Edit: its fairly simple concept, bst/dnc able to stay alive, farm anything mindlessly and much safer than any other job as is, adding to that disadvantages the rest of us who choose not to farm on bst. It marginalized a job who's sole purpose as their name suggests is to thf stuff... Yes it would be glorious for bst farmers, and would add nothing to the multi player part of this game. An event you keep asking for, and I'm telling you it would be everything, afk bst , with their pets chilling in beez in latheine, bst on elements in sky, bst on chigos in aut urgan...bst everywhere,.....,

It's a very capable job, it can do quite a bit as it is, having any thf traits at their main jobs disposal and not having to /thf is good enough, and too much in my opinion.

[Caketime]

ouch....try again.

Ball's still in your court, you're the one who won't admit that you're just as greedy as everyone else. You also stooped to attacking me personally in an attempt to justify your argument.

[Nawesemo]

Ball's still in your court, you're the one who won't admit that you're just as greedy as everyone else. You also stooped to attacking me personally in an attempt to justify your argument.

Lol,.. someone pee in your cornflakes this morning?

[Caketime]

Funny how all you've got is tired one liners, personal attacks and no actual argument other than you somehow get less drops if Yuly can proc TH. You keep bringing up Dyna farming when most of us are talking about farming ingredients for our tools because we're one of the most consumable dependant jobs in the game, or doing other things that have nothing to do with Relics. The discussion keeps coming back to Dyna because you're furious that BST can farm currency faster than you, and your entire reasoning hinges on fairness, yet you are clearly only resentful because you want the game to be more fair to you over others.

[Nawesemo]

Funny how all you've got is tired one liners, personal attacks and no actual argument other than you somehow get less drops if Yuly can proc TH. You keep bringing up Dyna farming when most of us are talking about farming ingredients for our tools because we're one of the most consumable dependant jobs in the game, or doing other things that have nothing to do with Relics. The discussion keeps coming back to Dyna because you're furious that BST can farm currency faster than you, and your entire reasoning hinges on fairness, yet you are clearly only resentful because you want the game to be more fair to you over others.

Balance grasshopper, balance.

BTW, I think you don't know what your arguing for/against. I am anti more bst pet thf. You in favor. I am opposed because well, yall bst are insisting bst farm currency well, and if that's the case, adding more thf will only enhance that and any other farming, without the bst needing to /thf, and not giving up anything, like all other jobs do to gain the thf 3. It is not something i agree with. You... Oppose my reasoning, fair enough, but I'll be here all day telling you that its as silly as a blm wanting thf 3 added to thunder 5.

[Caketime]

Who said anything about TH3 added to Thunder V other than you? Also, I never insisted anything, you have. Additionally, if you think I'm not giving up anythng to get TH you're dead wrong, I give up lots of kill speed and have to load up an entirely different gear set to make Falcorr half way decent at killing things. Sure, I could be a lazy douche and just /fight and walk away, but that isn't how I play. I poured weeks of my time into my TP offhand axe and I'm currently building a Guttler to ehance my melee even further. I wear millions of gil worth of equipment just so my pets kill at a decently fast rate, and you're saying I sacrifice nothing? You don't play my job, and you don't know me, so don't even try to say I don't have to make sacrifices to be efficient, because I and every other BST worth their salt know damn well it's not about pressing Fight and Reward occasionally then laughing all the way to the bank. That's the misconception that ignorant people bring to the forums when they're mad.

[FrankReynolds]

They'd be in there regardless wait for it.... becuase it's easy.

Wrong. There are very few people who are gonna just do dynamis forever just because they can. Most people have a limit to how much they can play every day and only do any given event until they don't have to any more. If your theory were correct, Dynamis would be insanely crowded 24/7 and they would have to instance it or add new zones. It's not because a lot of people have other things they would rather do than just grind for gil. There's something like 2,000 people on a server. If they all did dynamis every day "just because", the zones would be maxed out.


An event you keep asking for, and I'm telling you it would be everything, afk bst , with their pets chilling in beez in latheine, bst on elements in sky, bst on chigos in aut urgan...bst everywhere,.....,

OMG What if the BSTS dominate all the Bees in lathein!!!!!???? lol seriously not gonna happen. The fact remains that even with TH% on bst, there are still more efficient ways to farm things any time that you aren't solo. Which means that things will stay exactly the same. People who have to solo will go bst (because they were gonna do that anyways) and people who have a friend(s) with them will go on different jobs that are more efficient.

If it weren't for dynamis proc system causing people to fight over mobs, most people would have never even noticed that BST got TH3 in the first place. That's how little of an effect that it has on other peoples lives outside the BST community.

[Nawesemo]

Who said anything about TH3 added to Thunder V other than you? Also, I never insisted anything, you have. Additionally, if you think I'm not giving up anythng to get TH you're dead wrong, I give up lots of kill speed and have to load up an entirely different gear set to make Falcorr half way decent at killing things. Sure, I could be a lazy douche and just /fight and walk away, but that isn't how I play. I poured weeks of my time into my TP offhand axe and I'm currently building a Guttler to ehance my melee even further. I wear millions of gil worth of equipment just so my pets kill at a decently fast rate, and you're saying I sacrifice nothing? You don't play my job, and you don't know me, so don't even try to say I don't have to make sacrifices to be efficient, because I and every other BST worth their salt know damn well it's not about pressing Fight and Reward occasionally then laughing all the way to the bank. That's the misconception that ignorant people bring to the forums when they're mad.

but you would still retain your choice of /sub, everyone else would need to /thf, to get what your advocating, ...bst would get it as part of the main job and not sacrifice their choice of sub. Pretending like your choice of gear is giving up something is goofy, mages change gear to enhance their spells.... They're giving something up to make their spells more potent? No.... But they do to gain thf 3, their sub. Bst has thf traits on yuly, and thats good enough, too much to a capable job in my opinion. Wanting thf 3 added to yuly is a lot like a blm wanting it added to thunder 5. Kinda goofy.

[Zagen]

I am anti more bst pet thf.
Why?

I mean you must have a reason, and it can't be Dynamis because even post nerf while BST gets less coins it's still there in Dynamis, even if there was no TH it would still be there because of how easy it is to suck and still do well when your pet does the majority of the work.

It can't be farming craft items because really where's the competition there? I mean you'd be comparing TH3 vs. TH3+ from THF main (and if you're /THF instead of THF/ to farm you're doing it wrong).

Is it because you're jealous a BST can solo just about any Abyssea NM? This is possible except BST has at best 3 spells proc options from /WHM, /SCH, /BLM, or /NIN. So really it's an inferior option when considering efficiency of !! vs. TH in abyssea for +1/+2 items. It also can't cover weapon skills for blue like MNK.

Is it because, if the pet had TH3 it would be just as useful in Voidwatch as a THF main? Does pet TH even boost drops like TH from THF?

Keep in mind I'm not for or against increasing TH, I couldn't care less about it. I'm just wondering why you're so adamant about it when I just can't see a good reason to be against it.

[Nawesemo]

Wrong. There are very few people who are gonna just do dynamis forever just because they can. Most people have a limit to how much they can play every day and only do any given event until they don't have to any more. If your theory were correct, Dynamis would be insanely crowded 24/7 and they would have to instance it or add new zones. It's not because a lot of people have other things they would rather do than just grind for gil. There's something like 2,000 people on a server. If they all did dynamis every day "just because", the zones would be maxed out.



OMG What if the BSTS dominate all the Bees in lathein!!!!!???? lol seriously not gonna happen. The fact remains that even with TH% on bst, there are still more efficient ways to farm things any time that you aren't solo. Which means that things will stay exactly the same. People who have to solo will go bst (because they were gonna do that anyways) and people who have a friend(s) with them will go on different jobs that are more efficient.

Don't look now, your starting to agree with me.

[Nawesemo]

Why?

I mean you must have a reason, and it can't be Dynamis because even post nerf while BST gets less coins it's still there in Dynamis, even if there was no TH it would still be there because of how easy it is to suck and still do well when your pet does the majority of the work.

It can't be farming craft items because really where's the competition there? I mean you'd be comparing TH3 vs. TH3+ from THF main (and if you're /THF instead of THF/ to farm you're doing it wrong).

Is it because you're jealous a BST can solo just about any Abyssea NM? This is possible except BST has at best 3 spells proc options from /WHM, /SCH, /BLM, or /NIN. So really it's an inferior option when considering efficiency of !! vs. TH in abyssea for +1/+2 items. It also can't cover weapon skills for blue like MNK.

Is it because, if the pet had TH3 it would be just as useful in Voidwatch as a THF main? Does pet TH even boost drops like TH from THF?

Keep in mind I'm not for or against increasing TH, I couldn't care less about it. I'm just wondering why you're so adamant about it when I just can't see a good reason to be against it.

Why? Because they don't need it.

[Zagen]

Why? Because they don't need it.
Same logic applies to other jobs not needing /THF.

Heck for me the only appealing part of /THF for DNC/THF soloing in Dynamis is Flee and Sneak Attack. Both increase the overall gain in currency than TH2 does as it alone came out to about 1 more coin at best.

[Nawesemo]

Same logic applies to other jobs not needing /THF.

meh... but bst has it's thf 2 already, and that's good enough, it's as goofy an idea that blm get thf traits to spells, or main war having thf 2 traits to any one of their job abilities.

I want alot , I shouldn't get alot of it. I know it, and so do they.

if no one was arguing against it, everyone would scream in unison that it's a great idea, and well... it just isn't.

Balance is as balanced as we can make it, and this isn't the way.

but hey, I'm not s.e. they could give it to them tommorow and well, no skin off my nose, other than loosing a little more faith in the everly echo'd "balance".

(but if they do get it back I can think of a whole list of stuff I'm going to ask for and call everyone who disagrees with me ignorant, and greedy and illogical and get my way too.)

I don't think they will, but hey, I'm wrong often so others can be right.

[SNK]

No, it was a bug that needed to be fixed and was only glaringly obvious when Asuran Fists spam became popular.

That sort of circular logic could be applied to Dipper and Falcorr's Treasure Hunter being nerfed.

[Zagen]

(but if they do get it back I can think of a whole list of stuff I'm going to ask for and call everyone who disagrees with me ignorant, and greedy and illogical and get my way too.)

I don't think they will, but hey, I'm wrong often so others can be right.

This logic I can agree with, I'm in favor of buffs over nerfs. That said correctly tested buffs.

If SE and not the player base was concerned about Yuly/Falcorr's TH affecting drops they wouldn't have given it TH3 off the bat they would have said TH1 and we see what happens without telling the players. That however wasn't what happened, SE introduced a pet with TH3 base because it was a THF and they didn't care about drop rates at the time. The player base cried about BST in Dynamis because it had TH3, SE nerfed TH on pet and guess what BST is still there. In other words the nerf failed at what it aimed to do which was make the overall player base happy, just like most nerfs.

[FrankReynolds]

Balance grasshopper, balance.

BTW, I think you don't know what your arguing for/against. I am anti more bst pet thf. You in favor. I am opposed because well, yall bst are insisting bst farm currency well, and if that's the case, adding more thf will only enhance that and any other farming, without the bst needing to /thf, and not giving up anything, like all other jobs do to gain the thf 3. It is not something i agree with. You... Oppose my reasoning, fair enough, but I'll be here all day telling you that its as silly as a blm wanting thf 3 added to thunder 5.

You keep saying this stuff, but it's not true. BST has to give up damage on their pet just like blu has to sacrifice spells, just like rng... has to hit a button... Other jobs get TH just from equipping a piece of equipment one time. The whole "BST doesn't have to sub thf" argument is completely shot to hell. It has no basis. BST simply had a slightly higher level based on them having a thief pet where as none of these other jobs with access to level 1 have anything related to thief about them and far more going for them in the way of procs.

[Nawesemo]

You keep saying this stuff, but it's not true. BST has to give up damage on their pet just like blu has to sacrifice spells, just like rng... has to hit a button... Other jobs get TH just from equipping a piece of equipment one time. The whole "BST doesn't have to sub thf" argument is completely shot to hell. It has no basis. BST simply had a slightly higher level based on them having a thief pet where as none of these other jobs with access to level 1 have anything related to thief about them and far more going for them in the way of procs.
Lol aside from me not favoring thf 3 on a pet, and you wanting it, we pretty much agree. Bst has thf 2, does well when its used, gives up no sub job to get it, nothing from any other aspect of their job any more than any other to gain thf 1 ( the jobs that can equip it) and Blu sucks. (Read blu is the spoiled rich kid everyone uses as an example as an exception to the rule), ....rng.... Lol seriously... Yeah, i hope s.e never gives into go go group think, this is a bad idea.

[Komori]

Your posts only half make sense Nawesemo, and BST only has TH1.

[Nawesemo]

Your posts only half make sense Nawesemo, and BST only has TH1.

o. well, that's more credit than I've been getting so thank you.
/blush

[Caketime]

but you would still retain your choice of /sub, everyone else would need to /thf, to get what your advocating, ...bst would get it as part of the main job and not sacrifice their choice of sub. Pretending like your choice of gear is giving up something is goofy, mages change gear to enhance their spells.... They're giving something up to make their spells more potent? No.... But they do to gain thf 3, their sub. Bst has thf traits on yuly, and thats good enough, too much to a capable job in my opinion. Wanting thf 3 added to yuly is a lot like a blm wanting it added to thunder 5. Kinda goofy.

My sub choices are limited to what can ensure survivability. We talked about this earlier in the thread, if I were to sub THF then I'd lose out on ALL other utility that a sub brings plus I can't wear a Taru sash, whereas most other jobs wouldn't be in the same "completely screwed" position. BLM doesn't have any problems subbing THF because you can still easily keep yourself alive and maintain massive damage output, and you also have the benefit of being friendly to a group. I have to do all of this solo or with a BST bro to expedite the kill process, which doesn't actually bother me despite your insistence, but it is less efficient to quite a large degree. It's OK for you to be efficient, but not for me is what I'm getting from your posts.

As for gear, it actually does greatly effect my performance depending on what I'm wearing, and there are several pieces that have to be fulltimed (barring WS macros etc.) which take up valuable gear slots for otherwise much better pieces, and you only have to gimp it up for the initial hit. It's OK for you to be efficient, but not for me, I have to bring a friend or go without heals and even then I have an inferior TH level. If we're arguing fairness, how is that fair? Or is it OK that it's more fair for you and I should just stfu and level BLM?

[Nawesemo]

My sub choices are limited to what can ensure survivability. We talked about this earlier in the thread, if I were to sub THF then I'd lose out on ALL other utility that a sub brings plus I can't wear a Taru sash, whereas most other jobs wouldn't be in the same "completely screwed" position. BLM doesn't have any problems subbing THF because you can still easily keep yourself alive and maintain massive damage output, and you also have the benefit of being friendly to a group. I have to do all of this solo or with a BST bro to expedite the kill process, which doesn't actually bother me despite your insistence, but it is less efficient to quite a large degree. It's OK for you to be efficient, but not for me is what I'm getting from your posts.

As for gear, it actually does greatly effect my performance depending on what I'm wearing, and there are several pieces that have to be fulltimed (barring WS macros etc.) which take up valuable gear slots for otherwise much better pieces, and you only have to gimp it up for the initial hit. It's OK for you to be efficient, but not for me, I have to bring a friend or go without heals and even then I have an inferior TH level. If we're arguing fairness, how is that fair? Or is it OK that it's more fair for you and I should just stfu and level BLM?

:/ if i'm /thf um... lol I did alot more than gimp my first hit.

Gotta remember bub we're talking about thf 3 on a pet, not what you have today, ... I can live with that, becauase it's fair'er than what you want ... thf 3 on a pet. (or thf 3 on an shiruken for nin, or thf 3 on pebbles for blm, or thf 3 attached to thunder 5.. etc).

Right now.... yeah sure, blu skrew's you over in the "we get more thf than youuuu ne ner ne ner ne ner" department. but that's blu... you want to put bst on that same special tier that gets to get thf 3 without /thf. I don't agree with that. Bst has it well enough as it is.

And just stop with the "i have to gimp myself to use yuly" arguement... it just sounds dumb. Its your job to use beast pets, it's what you do, you're not gimping yourself by choosing what pet to use, your making a decision based on what best suits your needs. Your not gimping anything, your gearing for the task at hand, war's change sets for ws, becuase they are optimal for that ws, there are trade offs, for diffrent things.. you know like thf. ... or /dnc for safety, or .. /war for dmg output.. every bst who isn't /war is gimping themselves? THEY'RE NOT DOING THE MAX DMG THEY CAN must be a gimp.... NO... lol it's a decision... just like why you decide to play bst vs. blm, rdm, blu, dnc, smn. and when you decide to /thf or not. You are just like zomg!!! the rest of us, who "can" use a pet who has a thf trait. Be happy you get that.

Giving thf 3 to a pet puts bst in a special class, I don't like it, don't want it to happen.

Sure if you wanna ... go ahead and level blm, it's no where near efficent though .. it's more like the fat kid oozing sweets off his fingertips and still maw'ing down on chocolates (mp efficency is poo), ... but I don't think you'll like it. (there now i said it so it makes your post a little more ... right)

[Nawesemo]

BLM doesn't have any problems subbing THF because you can still easily keep yourself alive and maintain massive damage output

hehehehehhe...

Nawesemo casts Break on the Vangard protector
Nawesemo casts Thunder 5 on the Vangard Protector
the Vangard Protector takes 3485 points of damage
the Vangard Protector uses Chainspell
The Vangard Protector starts casting Silence
Nawesemo starts casting Stun
The Vangard Protector casts silence
Nawesemo is Silenced.
The Vangard Protector starts casting Thunder III
The Vangard Protector casts Thunder III
Nawesemo uses a Remedy
Nawesemo takes 340 points of damage
The Vangard Protector starts casting Fire III
Nawesemo starts casting sleep
the Vangard Protector casts Fire III
Nawesemo takes 240 points of damage.
Nawesemo casts sleep
The vangard Protector is asleep.
Nawesemo Uses Manawell
Nawesemo starts casting comet
Nawesemo casts Comet.
The Vangard Protector takes 4000 points of damage.

lol .... I could pull it of no sweat :D *gulp

[Caketime]

:/ if i'm /thf um... lol I did alot more than gimp my first hit.

Gotta remember bub we're talking about thf 3 on a pet, not what you have today, ... I can live with that, becauase it's fair'er than what you want ... thf 3 on a pet. (or thf 3 on an shiruken for nin, or thf 3 on pebbles for blm, or thf 3 attached to thunder 5.. etc).

If Ninja shurikens were an integral part of the Ninja's play mechanics (I'd say Jutsu is moreso than shurikens) and having TH made sense for the job, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. Same with your other examples, I wouldn't be opposed to what you're suggesting as long as it makes sense for the job. THF pets having TH makes sense in that the developers gave pets jobs and traits to go along with those jobs, for BLU it makes sense that they can get as much TH as they have due to their ability to change their job traits with spell sets. When this problem came up BLU was complained about too, but BST pets got the adjustment. Yuly is inferior to Falcorr in every category, by the way. The nerf to TH has made her even more niche than before. Absolutely no reason to use her unless you're fighting single targets with piss accuracy. Even then, Falcorr still outclasses her. She's lost her place among our pets for anything even halfway serious.


Right now.... yeah sure, blu skrew's you over in the "we get more thf than youuuu ne ner ne ner ne ner" department. but that's blu... you want to put bst on that same special tier that gets to get thf 3 without /thf. I don't agree with that. Bst has it well enough as it is.

Hi I'm a BST, we're highly dependant on farming for EVERYTHING our job uses, the nerf to our pets has only served to force us to spend more time farming and that's not helping anyone. It certainly doesn't help the chefs I offload ingredients to either. I don't think my job should be special, but our pets having TH never hurt anybody until Dynamis got revamped and the tears began to flow. It sucks, bro.


And just stop with the "i have to gimp myself to use yuly" arguement... it just sounds dumb. Its your job to use beast pets, it's what you do, you're not gimping yourself by choosing what pet to use, your making a decision based on what best suits your needs. Your not gimping anything, your gearing for the task at hand, war's change sets for ws, becuase they are optimal for that ws, there are trade offs, for diffrent things.. you know like thf. ... or /dnc for safety, or .. /war for dmg output.. every bst who isn't /war is gimping themselves? THEY'RE NOT DOING THE MAX DMG THEY CAN must be a gimp.... NO... lol it's a decision... just like why you decide to play bst vs. blm, rdm, blu, dnc, smn. and when you decide to /thf or not. You are just like zomg!!! the rest of us, who "can" use a pet who has a thf trait. Be happy you get that.

You can't compare a WAR pressing a button and performing a single action to a BST summoning a pet that is less efficient than literally any of our other choices and using it for the full duration. That's 2 hours of changing my playstyle vs. two buttons for the WAR. I'm not saying it's unfair, but the comparison just doesn't work. Also like I said earlier, we don't have nearly as much choice in subs without taking a severe hit to survivability. Wild Carrot isn't a solution either, and Snarl requires me to be up my pet's ass to use now due to the great river of tears. That alone forces me to stay right next to my pet instead of snagging another mob to add to the collection, forcing my efficiency even further down.


Giving thf 3 to a pet puts bst in a special class, I don't like it, don't want it to happen.

Being an "odd" job, BST has never been accepted into group content except with other BST, we are pariahs by design. Jobs like ours need to be able to function in the game just as well as other jobs, except we have no real role in a group, so we get pets to shore up our glaring flaws. TH3 never made me special, it just made me more capable of functioning outside of group content without forcing me to farm for even longer periods. Apparently that twists the community's collective panties for some reason. How dare we have something nice, it's so unfair to everyone except for the jobs that can wear the sash and take few penalties for subbing THF.


Sure if you wanna ... go ahead and level blm, it's no where near efficent though .. it's more like the fat kid oozing sweets off his fingertips and still maw'ing down on chocolates (mp efficency is poo), ... but I don't think you'll like it. (there now i said it so it makes your post a little more ... right)

I wasn't serious, I'm not a fan of the job. It rocks, but it's just not my tankard of grog. I also don't feel like collecting even more MAB+ gear in addition to building a goat set and boring my way through getting the accessories for it. That goes without mentioning scroll quests and the time investment involved with those. It's all worth it, but I'd rather be BST, it fits my playstyle and personality better. I'm rather shy around people, so I'm OK with not getting tells for groups, and I'd rather get my gear on my own because I am able to do so. I never liked the idea of gathering 17 other people to get items for me, it's one of the things that never made any sense that this game is full of, but it is what it is.

[SNK]

Hi I'm a BST, we're highly dependant on farming for EVERYTHING our job uses, the nerf to our pets has only served to force us to spend more time farming and that's not helping anyone. It certainly doesn't help the chefs I offload ingredients to either. I don't think my job should be special, but our pets having TH never hurt anybody until Dynamis got revamped and the tears began to flow. It sucks, bro.

Hate to remind you but back in the day our pets didn't have TH then either and even worse jug pets outright sucked and were way overpriced in terms of utility. As far as farming everything my job uses well.. I dunno what to tell you. I had other jobs lined up to farm crap where I needed seals/gear which I could obtain easier with friends.

I like my BST but I don't depend on the TH as much as some people do. Dipper is still a great pet regardless of how much it got nerfed. It's cheap, highly evasive and hits pretty hard for a small ass bug.

[deces]

I'm still shocked that ranger can get treasure hunter 10.

[Caketime]

Hate to remind you but back in the day our pets didn't have TH then either and even worse jug pets outright sucked and were way overpriced in terms of utility. As far as farming everything my job uses well.. I dunno what to tell you. I had other jobs lined up to farm crap where I needed seals/gear which I could obtain easier with friends.

You don't have to remind me, this job has come a long way. Farming ingredients is my choice as well, it's either that or do events for rare drops to sell, both are just a means to the same end.


I like my BST but I don't depend on the TH as much as some people do. Dipper is still a great pet regardless of how much it got nerfed. It's cheap, highly evasive and hits pretty hard for a small ass bug.

I've taken a shine to Silas over the last few days. We need more Frog pets.

[yankeestom]

Dynamis
BST
TH
Behavior
No matter how simple you try to make this, the problem is right there in 4 word's. The job has pretty much suffer in the same way RDM has. Individual's took it to a new level. And it got snuff under the flag of balance. Personally, I just shake my head. While the nerf balance fix the dev's team problem with the issue. It still leave's many ppl standing around waiting for re-spawn's in a time event where every second count's. Due mostly to BST rounding up everything they come across and killing it in pack's. The situation turn's players against player, and has made BST one of the most hated job classes too see in Dynamis. Can you blame them? No, their just doing what they can to make gil and build there relic.

My apologies for the derail. But the issue goes beyond the TH nerf. And trying to get it back.

For the love of Christ, back away from the apostrophe key. Plural words will require apostrophes about the same time as BST will get Pet: TH+ gear.

[SNK]

I've taken a shine to Silas over the last few days. We need more Frog pets.

It's an ok pet but not one of my favorites. When I'm cleaving *Yes I said cleaving* I use LuckyLulu since he's an amazing damage dealing pet when soloing. For mass pulls where you want to be able to pull hate off you then Dipper is a 100% win for this.

Falcorr is solid and I like his TP moves but compared to the two TH pets, I enjoy Dipper slightly more.

[Caketime]

I use Lulu for trials, she's made my TP Axe so much easier to do, and she's not too bad for weather trials either. Whirl Claws gets the job done quite nicely. I tried out Silas on Balaur using Plaguebringer/Apoc/Ducal Guard and he did really well, I didn't have to ride Reward and was able to melee without worrying, only turning when he put up spikes and waiting for a Dispel from my BLU buddy. He seemed to take the magic damage pretty well, so I'm going to keep using him for little fun things like Abby NM camping for friends.

[Aldersyde]

It's an ok pet but not one of my favorites. When I'm cleaving *Yes I said cleaving* I use LuckyLulu since he's an amazing damage dealing pet when soloing. For mass pulls where you want to be able to pull hate off you then Dipper is a 100% win for this.

Falcorr is solid and I like his TP moves but compared to the two TH pets, I enjoy Dipper slightly more.

I was intrigued by this, so I went and tried Lulu in Abyssea-Kon with RR/MC/DG on efts (because they link). It went ok but I was wondering what atmas you use when you do it. Do you just let Lulu whittle them down or do help out with damage with a dagger AoE ws?

[Lyberty]

People, please if you want to farm and have TH there is what you are supposed to do: mog house->change jobs-> THF.
And if you still insist to have TH on you on BST,well you can always sub THF for it, the reason I say this is because THF is THE farming job in FF, so you either accept it or not but SE wont be giving BSTs pets a higher tier TH, in my opinion pets shouldnt even have TH, but thats just me... The reason I say this is because I have never seen a THF asking for a pet so they could do it better/faster.