RDM Adjustment Suggestions

[Nightfox]

*********** Please keep comments and criticism constructive. ***********


Spells:


Bravery – Increases a target party members attack; Overwritten by Faith. (30s recast)

Faith – Increases a target party members magic attack; Overwritten by Bravery. (30s recast)

Temper – Increases target party member’s chance of attacking twice. (30s recast)

Stop – Causes an enemy to stop temporarily. (45s Recast)

Ail – Inflicts an enemy with plague. (20s Recast)

Reversal - Swaps current TP with a member in your party. (Only applicable if user’s TP is equal to or higher than target’s TP.) (1min 30s Recast)

Hinder – Slightly reduces the target’s area-of-effect spell radius. (20s Recast)




Skill Rating:

Sword Skill Rating: B+
Enhancing Magic Rating: A





Weapon Skills:

Vorpal Blade
Sanguine Blade





Job Traits:


Fencer- Increases Critical Hit Rate when wielding with the main hand only. Grants a TP Bonus to weapon skills.

Fencer II- Increases Critical Hit Rate when wielding with the main hand only. Grants a TP Bonus to weapon skills.

Tranquil Heart II- Reduces enmity gain when casting healing magic.

Spell Precision- Slightly raises magic accuracy.

Spell Precision II- Slightly raises magic accuracy.





Job Abilities:


Enfoldment – Triples MP cost of an enhancing magic spell and converts its range to an area-of-effect spell. (1 min)

Entrapment- Triples MP cost of an enfeebling magic spell and converts its range to an area-of-effect spell. (1 min)

[tyrantsyn]

That's what I love about the RDM forum's, Every month a new improvement, adjust, ideal thread pop's up. Well not so much new in idea's, but new thread atleast. You don't get that over on the dead ass WAR forum's.

Well at least with the way thing's have been going lately they have half a chance of being look at and consider.

Edit: Bravery and Faith have been toss around for a while now here on the RDM forum's. It would be a big boom to the community moral if these spell's got push threw for the job.

[Calatilla]

You don't get many idea threads for war because lets be honest, what does war really need? RDM has been left in the corner since Abyssea and any ideas people throw out either get rejected or used for other jobs. So people will continue making threads until the devs listen.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

A few things:

Faith / Bravery would be one of those spells it'd be acceptable to be self cast only.

Tranquil Heart II already exists upto IV, we have upto III. http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Tranquil_Heart

I'd accept AoE for Enhancing at quadruple cost.

[Koren]

Spells:


Bravery – Increases a target party members attack; Overwritten by Faith. (30s recast)

Faith – Increases a target party members magic attack; Overwritten by Bravery. (30s recast)

Temper – Increases target party member’s chance of attacking twice. (30s recast)

Stop – Causes an enemy to stop temporarily. (45s Recast)

Ail – Inflicts an enemy with plague. (20s Recast)

Reversal - Swaps current TP with a member in your party. (Only applicable if user’s TP is equal to or higher than target’s TP.) (1min 30s Recast)

Hinder– Slightly reduces the target’s area-of-effect spell radius. (20s Recast)



Temper and Faith have been mentioned before and people more articulate than I will comment on them. Temper I've viewed like a physical En-spell, and would prefer to see it Accessionable rather than single party target, but if you'd rather have it cast on other players more power to you.

Stop is basically Stun, or Terror if you want the mob's animation to stop also. If you go with it inflicting Terror, you could stagger the effects of Stun and Terror to prevent an enemies action so there's some use for it. There is no Terror spell for black magic so it's a viable spell to get provided it's not resisted to hell and back.

Now Plague is more of a solo tool. Any more than 2 people hitting a mob and I doubt you'll see much of an effect. In all likelihood it would fall to the wayside as a "useless" spell.

Reversal is better used as a job ability, not a spell. I can't think of any realistic situation in which it could be used since RDM does not have a method of gaining TP without melee. Maybe between VW fights.

Hinder is a spell I like. If it is treated like DNC steps and stacks with itself to reduce the mob's AoE range even further it could be a powerful tool in battle. This spell would certainly needs to be able to overwrite itself. We all know the NMs will inevitably use their 1-hit Deathga move in between when it wears off and while we're reapplying it.



Job Traits:


Fencer- Increases Critical Hit Rate when wielding with the main hand only. Grants a TP Bonus to weapon skills.

Fencer II- Increases Critical Hit Rate when wielding with the main hand only. Grants a TP Bonus to weapon skills.


Fencer I've never understood with RDM, is it because it is an honestly useful ability or because it's called Fencer? Would RDM still want it as badly if it were called Finesse instead?



Job Abilities:


Enfoldment – Triples MP cost of an enhancing magic spell and converts its range to an area-of-effect spell. (1 min)

Entrapment- Triples MP cost of an enfeebling magic spell and converts its range to an area-of-effect spell. (1 min)

I know RDM wants a place in parties, but literally taking a page out of SCH's book isn't doing it. The only benefit is that you don't need the corresponding Arts to use them. The 1 minute recast hurts more than helps to be honest. SCH's advantage to AoE enhancing is they can crank them out one after the other with stratagem charges.

As a contribution, I'll propose a job ability.

Reset - Resets enhancement durations to their initial value for party members within Area of Effect. (Recast should be between 2.5 - 5 minutes)

If a player has Berserk active and there are 30 seconds before it wears off, Reset will return the duration back to its initial time of 3 minutes. Berserk's recast is unaffected. Berserk will not be reinstated if it wears off before Reset is used.
For enhancements with variables like Stoneskin or Utsusemi, the enhancement will be reset back to its maximum duration and effect based on the RDM skill if applicable. Utsusemi: Ni would be reset back to 4 shadows, while Stoneskin would be based on the RDM enhancing skill. This could be good or bad. If an unskilled RDM uses Reset, you could end up with a weaker Stoneskin than you started, while a skilled RDM could boost Stoneskin to the cap regardless of the skill of the initial caster using Reset. Not sure if gear bonuses should play a part in the effect or even if it should be the RDM's gear or the targets gear.

2-hour abilities are not affected by Reset. If they were, expect a much longer recast.

[Demon6324236]

Stop is basically Stun, or Terror if you want the mob's animation to stop also. If you go with it inflicting Terror, you could stagger the effects of Stun and Terror to prevent an enemies action so there's some use for it. There is no Terror spell for black magic so it's a viable spell to get provided it's not resisted to hell and back.

A cool way to do Stop would be to make it an enfeebling version of stun. We have our Dark Magic stun spell for BLM & DRK. Having Stop as Enfeebling Magic would do a few things, for instance it would give RDM a unique spell, with higher land rate due to higher skill, along with a native stun spell so that Chainspell Stun can be done without the original methods of /DRK or /BLM. Also, they could separate the resists for them possible, so some mobs/NMs may be more resistant to one or the other. They could make Stop another element, such as Ice based, rather than Lightning like stun is, so that it can also effect different targets.

In either case, if Stop is done, it could just be another stun spell but for RDM specifically so RDM has it natively, and its own spell for it based off of its best skill, Enfeebling Magic.

[Koren]

I keep forgetting Stun is a Dark Magic spell, so Stop as an enfeebling Stun would make sense. The Stun effect is more or less the most powerful "enfeeble" in the game so our most powerful enfeebler should have natural access.

[Scuro]

Lets keep this short and sweet because the Dodger game is on...


*********** Please keep comments and criticism constructive. ***********


Spells:


Bravery – Increases a target party members attack; Overwritten by Faith. (30s recast)

-They have this its called war cry, Triumphant Roar + diffusion, take your pick. but why not let RDM have it, they need buffs.

Faith – Increases a target party members magic attack; Overwritten by Bravery. (30s recast)

-SCH has this, its called Klimaform and BLU but why not I have no problem with RDM getting this.

Temper – Increases target party member’s chance of attacking twice. (30s recast)

-YES! Thank you, I have no idea why dafuq SE ever made this single cast to begin with, it should be at least party castable like haste and refresh the staples that are RDM. Self Cast makes it a waste.

Stop – Causes an enemy to stop temporarily. (45s Recast)
-This seems to be BLU's headbutt, and BLM/SCH's Break and Stun, I don't see the point of it, you're better off asking for stun, but I doubt BLM's would be willing to give that up.

Ail – Inflicts an enemy with plague. (20s Recast)

-Already stated by devs that this seems to be a over time enfeeble that hinders TP and if it were to be instated, it would most likely go to SCH.

Reversal - Swaps current TP with a member in your party. (Only applicable if user’s TP is equal to or higher than target’s TP.) (1min 30s Recast)

-Sounds alot like SAM JA that gives TP to party members, and PUP's tactical swap but I don't see this happening, and even than it probably wouldn't be a great contributor to RDM.

Hinder – Slightly reduces the target’s area-of-effect spell radius. (20s Recast)

- This seems week and pointless, unless it makes AoE's become Single Target and no longer devour shadows. If that was the case, this spell alone would probably get RDM back in the game.




Skill Rating:

Sword Skill Rating: B+
Enhancing Magic Rating: A





Weapon Skills:

Vorpal Blade
Sanguine Blade

-Will not improve RDM, At all.




Job Traits:

NO! No no no no no!
Fencer- Increases Critical Hit Rate when wielding with the main hand only. Grants a TP Bonus to weapon skills.

Fencer II- Increases Critical Hit Rate when wielding with the main hand only. Grants a TP Bonus to weapon skills.

Tranquil Heart II- Reduces enmity gain when casting healing magic.

- This might piss off WHM's & SCH's since we only have Tranquil heart 1, but giving RDM Tranquil Heart I, I can get behind.

Going to change Spell Precision to "Magical Focus" because nobody but JP's give a flying f*ck at a rolling donut about MACC, and I would have it apply to MAB, but that would defeat the native traits of MAB so lets just kick this over to enfeebles.
Magical Focus- Slightly raises magic POTENCY.

Magical Focus II- Slightly raises magic POTENCY.

(Which would be mostly for enfeebles to proc more frequently, and stick easier regardless of resistances.)





Job Abilities:


Enfoldment – Triples MP cost of an enhancing magic spell and converts its range to an area-of-effect spell. (1 min)

Entrapment- Triples MP cost of an enfeebling magic spell and converts its range to an area-of-effect spell. (1 min)

-I doubt you will ever see this because it will clearly be controversial to WHM and SCH. Since AoE has never been RDM strength, but maybe, make composure affect party members instead of just yourself so that you can extend enhancing magic duration and not worry about having to cast enhancing magic so much on others and won't need AoE. Which will also make RDM more useful, it might step a bit on SCH toes, but I think they are willing to let it go.

[Demon6324236]

Weapon Skills:

Vorpal Blade
Sanguine Blade

-Will not improve RDM, At all.
If you use a sword, yes, Sanguine would help, Vorpal not so much once you have Req/CDC/KoR/DB, but without those 4, it probably would end up as the best we got for damage.
NO! No no no no no!
Fencer- Increases Critical Hit Rate when wielding with the main hand only. Grants a TP Bonus to weapon skills.

Fencer II- Increases Critical Hit Rate when wielding with the main hand only. Grants a TP Bonus to weapon skills.
Not really a problem with adding this, not the most helpful thing ever but I mean not really a downfall to getting it either.

[saevel]

If you use a sword, yes, Sanguine would help, Vorpal not so much once you have Req/CDC/KoR/DB, but without those 4, it probably would end up as the best we got for damage.Not really a problem with adding this, not the most helpful thing ever but I mean not really a downfall to getting it either.

Dude it's scuro, he's a troll. Best think you can do is add him to your ignore list.

[ManaKing]

Stop sounds like a keeper. That's about it.

RDM is the selfish buffer, not the party support. SE made this clear. We aren't going back to cycles, other than Haste, because they aren't important. Until new management makes their position clear, I'm not assuming that they are going to devote time to RDM that doesn't follow the previous establishments frame work. We get a new 2H just like everyone else. Enfeebling might be useful after PD and Embrava are diminished. Maybe not.

All this party buffing you're talking about is going straight to SCH or maybe GEO. Honestly the debuffs sound like SCH territory as well.

[Scuro]

IF you noticed, I've shot down just about every DD thing for RDM because it is not a DD, nor should it, if you want a DD mage, go play BLU. That is why I am more than glad to help out with buff, debuff things which is what I have done. Also to Manaking, if you think that about RDM, it just won't go anywhere, if its going to be a self buffer, it will have virtually no desire to be utilized for group work, and will have to survive on its own, which no offense, it really can't in this day and age. That and Debuffs are RDM's thing, I couldn't see how it wouldn't be.

Whenever discussing RDM, I always keep the job manifesto in mind...

Red Mage

Vision
Support specialists who excel at transforming their allies from mere mortals into demigods with their enhancements, while rendering once-formidable enemies impotent with enfeebling magic.

We want to see red mages play a more vital role in HNM battles by making enfeebling magic more effective against high-level notorious monsters and their legendary levels of resistance as well as allowing them to better contribute to party member enhancement.

[Demon6324236]

The problem with that is, 1, no enfeeble will really be useful in an alliance setting unless it is massively over powered in a solo setting, RDM was once a solo god, so to do this would just put it back in that spot again. Buffs we will never excel at, why? Because of 2 jobs, COR, and BRD, they have a full spectrum of buffs we have no access to or anything near, putting us out of that job as well.

[ManaKing]

Yeah, well I'll counter your poorly translated and often poorly worded manifesto with SE's incessant need to put out promotional pics and videos with RDMs using swords. I happen to have an Excalibur in mine. I also drop Impact and sometimes Double Impact when I'm feeling JCVD. You can say whatever you want about RDMs damage potential, but I actually play this job and I have no question about whether or no I'm a DD. I'm not, I'm a damage contributor that heals and enfeebles where appropriate. Doesn't mean I can't beat shit to death in a group or by myself.

If I needed EPeen numbers to feel good about myself, I would have picked the wrong job. And just so we are clear, when it's appropriate to go to events without my sword, I put it away. BLU is such a superior DD over RDM that they can melee in all the events, like Voidwatch for example. That's why you always need 2 BLUs right? Because they do so much damage as a melee that you need at least 2 of them to ensure a win.

And when you go to Legion, you take a BLU to chain spell stun things to you don't have to use another PD....oh wait, that's not right either....


The problem with that is, 1, no enfeeble will really be useful in an alliance setting unless it is massively over powered in a solo setting, RDM was once a solo god, so to do this would just put it back in that spot again. Buffs we will never excel at, why? Because of 2 jobs, COR, and BRD, they have a full spectrum of buffs we have no access to or anything near, putting us out of that job as well.

DJ he just came here to troll. If you're not going to take pot shots at him, you're just supposed to laugh at him. Because he's here for your amusement.



We aren't party buffers. We are self buffers for flexibility and enfeeblers for party dynamics. If party dynamics don't revolve around enfeebling, then I hope you have the gear to do other things.

[Demon6324236]

But if they have no one to fight with they leave, then we get no amusement from it D:

[ManaKing]

oh i guess i did technically post after you, lol my bad

[Scuro]

If I needed EPeen numbers to feel good about myself, I would have picked the wrong job. And just so we are clear, when it's appropriate to go to events without my sword, I put it away. BLU is such a superior DD over RDM that they can melee in all the events, like Voidwatch for example. That's why you always need 2 BLUs right? Because they do so much damage as a melee that you need at least 2 of them to ensure a win.

And when you go to Legion, you take a BLU to chain spell stun things to you don't have to use another PD....oh wait, that's not right either....


You need 2 BLU's for Proc'n not so much damage, which is w/e, I don't ever go to VW as a BLU, just too much BS (But yes, you can DD, just better if ya got an Almace to do it with). And Legion, I haven't done it, but spamming head butt and sudden lunge, I imagine would fulfill the same as a chain spell Stun, yet again, haven't done legion yet. And no I don't troll, I add input which is why my posts don't get removed for trolling. Because when I post, I object and generally add what I imagine to be the proper fix. So throwing around trolling is cute, but not really what I do here. I just want to be sure where RDM goes, because I don't want it stepping on my toes as the other classes I play, even though I will willingly admit, I truly do have some hatred for the class because of the attitudes around it, but I still do as I mentioned in the above. Yet my opinion has been said, and if this goes into another DD RDM BS I'll be back again and leave again when I'm finished, so see ya til than RDMs.

[Demon6324236]

You need 2 BLU's for Proc'n not so much damage, which is w/e, I don't ever go to VW as a BLU, just too much BS (But yes, you can DD, just better if ya got an Almace to do it with). And Legion, I haven't done it, but spamming head butt and sudden lunge, I imagine would fulfill the same as a chain spell Stun, yet again, haven't done legion yet.You missed the point entirely.
And no I don't troll, I add input which is why my posts don't get removed for trolling. Because when I post, I object and generally add what I imagine to be the proper fix. So throwing around trolling is cute, but not really what I do here.Not much to say about this, if it is truly your opinion that RDM should suck, then I am sure we don't need you around our forum.
I just want to be sure where RDM goes, because I don't want it stepping on my toes as the other classes I playNot sure what jobs you play but I doubt giving RDM the ability to actually melee more effectively wouldn't hurt you in the slightest.
even though I will willingly admit, I truly do have some hatred for the class because of the attitudes around it...you hate RDM? Well no wonder.
but I still do as I mentioned in the above. Yet my opinion has been said, and if this goes into another DD RDM BS I'll be back again and leave again when I'm finished, so see ya til than RDMs.You can come back, doesn't matter much. RDM has a Sword for a reason. AF, Relic, Mythic, Emp, Abyssea JSW, and many other unique swords, are all for RDM, and all are sword weapons, not staffs, or clubs. RDM has light melee gear, not as much as BLU much to my displeasure, but it has gear for it. RDM has spells designed for melee specifically, En-spells, Temper, the like. You cant run away from the fact you may hate most, RDM is a hybrid job, and is much meant to be melee as it is to be mage.

Giving RDM more powerful buffs for its melee, would have next to no negative effects on other jobs, at all, except we might actually be able to participate in a front line position more often, as we were, and are being designed to be able to. I don't think SE plans for RDM to always be a back line job for everything otherwise En-spells, Temper, Spikes, and the numerous swords for RDM, wouldn't exist.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Seriously, people were doing so well ignoring the BLU troll.

Strongly suggest you just continue the topic before he came in, and ignore him whenever he posts, he's a massive fan of destroying topics by veering them so far off.

[Demon6324236]

Ok ;;
Bravery – Increases a target party members attack; Overwritten by Faith. (30s recast)

Faith – Increases a target party members magic attack; Overwritten by Bravery. (30s recast)

Temper – Increases target party member’s chance of attacking twice. (30s recast)

Stop – Causes an enemy to stop temporarily. (45s Recast)

Ail – Inflicts an enemy with plague. (20s Recast)

Reversal - Swaps current TP with a member in your party. (Only applicable if user’s TP is equal to or higher than target’s TP.) (1min 30s Recast)

Hinder – Slightly reduces the target’s area-of-effect spell radius. (20s Recast)Rather give up targeting other players with Brave/Faith, with having acc as well as attack. Stop as a Stun spell for RDM, but without it being the exact same, make it special by element & as an Enfeebling Spell, rather than Dark. Plague would be nice, but not to useful. Reversal seems kinda pointless seeing as most RDMs wont have TP, or if they do have it, they want to use it for themselves.
Skill Rating:

Sword Skill Rating: B+
Enhancing Magic Rating: A
Sword I definitely agree, Enhancing would be nice, but not needed, right now we can hit 500 which is cap on spell potency, however if we could reach it easier, we could put in more Fast Cast, so its good either way you go.
Weapon Skills:

Vorpal Blade
Sanguine BladeHelps RDMs without Relic/Mythic/Emp WSs, or Req, and gives the best Sword survival WS, sounds great.
Job Traits:


Fencer- Increases Critical Hit Rate when wielding with the main hand only. Grants a TP Bonus to weapon skills.

Fencer II- Increases Critical Hit Rate when wielding with the main hand only. Grants a TP Bonus to weapon skills.

Tranquil Heart II- Reduces enmity gain when casting healing magic.

Spell Precision- Slightly raises magic accuracy.

Spell Precision II- Slightly raises magic accuracy.Rather than "Spell Precision" why not just have a "Magic Accuracy Bonus" trait, and have it scale for RDM has "Magic Attack Bonus" does with BLM? It would allow RDM to be the best at sticking spells, Sub would only give +24 and T2 of the trait where as RDM itself would get T6 of the trait, and a nice +40. Thats just my idea of it, the rest isn't bad Fencer can be dealt without, but would be nice to have, and Tranq is something we have, but your giving lower tiers, not sure if thats to help with tanking as RDM, or you don't realize this.
Job Abilities:


Enfoldment – Triples MP cost of an enhancing magic spell and converts its range to an area-of-effect spell. (1 min)

Entrapment- Triples MP cost of an enfeebling magic spell and converts its range to an area-of-effect spell. (1 min)Enfoldment is not one of my favs. RDM only has 1 spell outside of the normal spells that other jobs have, that is able to target other players, thats Refresh/II. The chances of us getting an ability that AoEs our spells, with this low of a recast at that, are unlikely.

Entrapment I fell mostly the same way about. Except I do like the idea, but it loses out on the same basis, Diaga is the only enfeeble spell we have that is AoE, and actually 1 of the only AoE enfeebles in the entire game we get access to as players. While I would like to have that power, especially since it would help us stand out, it would likely be on a 10minute+ timer, and isn't something I think would happen because of RDM's general lack of AoEs, but we can hope, this new guy likes to listen to us players it would seem so I have new faith in this game.

[ManaKing]

You need 2 BLU's for Proc'n not so much damage, which is w/e, I don't ever go to VW as a BLU, just too much BS (But yes, you can DD, just better if ya got an Almace to do it with). And Legion, I haven't done it, but spamming head butt and sudden lunge, I imagine would fulfill the same as a chain spell Stun, yet again, haven't done legion yet. And no I don't troll, I add input which is why my posts don't get removed for trolling. Because when I post, I object and generally add what I imagine to be the proper fix. So throwing around trolling is cute, but not really what I do here. I just want to be sure where RDM goes, because I don't want it stepping on my toes as the other classes I play, even though I will willingly admit, I truly do have some hatred for the class because of the attitudes around it, but I still do as I mentioned in the above. Yet my opinion has been said, and if this goes into another DD RDM BS I'll be back again and leave again when I'm finished, so see ya til than RDMs.

Wow so you are just a troll. Don't know about how CCS is better than BLU. Well it is. You're not asked to come BLU when a mob has to be locked down with stuns because your stuns can be resisted and miss. Which is why you don't go to Legion. Ours can not miss or be resisted unless it is a mechanic that was specifically built in by SE to prevent CCS.

Your job didn't exist when I started playing. You don't have any toes to step on and you step on everyone's toes. You're repugnant and a hate monger. I would tell you to go somewhere else, but you clearly are bored and have nothing better to do. You don't even full time your supposed favorite job, BLU, by going to events as it, so you possibly know less about your job than I do. You have no pride and thus no respect from me. I full time my RDM everywhere, even the places where supposedly RDMs don't get invites to. If you can't do the same with your amazingly superior BLU, then maybe BLU isn't as good as you make it out to be...because it's not.

---

By design, RDM was supposed to share similarities with other jobs, but offer something different, such as refresh, dispel, and gravity. We all know how that went. SE put us back in the game with Temper as far as WAR goes and WHM was adjusted with the adjustment to healing magic. We are behind in our likeness to BLM and that is a big problem.

When the OP mentioned STOP I was pretty happy, because it actually makes sense for RDM. Most of the time, these posts are a ton of elaborate things that people would like for themselves. Things like Stop are simple and would actually add value to RDM as a whole. If not Stop, then Stun. Give RDM either and RDM will have more flexibility with sub jobs, because it won't require /BLM or /DRK to be viable in full alliance content.

In close, Chain Spell Stun is our best trick and you should never forget that. If they start to lower the recast time of Chain Spell, we will be more useful. Having native Stun or Stop, would actually help RDM because you could go /whatever.

[saevel]

Guys stop replying to him, he's just trying to get a rise out of you. Most of us ignored him the last time he tried to stir up sh!t and he'll only hang around if people actively try to argue with him.

For those spells, most would be fine as self cast, it's kinda in line with the rest of RDM's buffs. If they were other target-able SE would make them weak like Temper originally was.

[Sarick]

I got it. then, Since SE doesn't want to make RDM stronger in SOLO situations.

To keep the RDM enfeebling from being to strong solo. Add a trait that multiplies their magic based on the amount of players in their party or alliance. If it's a job ability It would create a ritual circle on the ground that amplifies the RDMs magic using the alliance or party members as catalyst for their power. This is liken to people holding hands in prayer or when doing a rituals.

Warlocks and Witches have done this in reality and it fits the "Warlock" description.

Trait:
Ritual Tactics I
LVL 50
Can benefit from up to 6 party or alliance members.

Ritual Tactics II
LVL 75
Can benefit from up to 12 party or alliance members.

Ritual Tactics III
LVL 99
Can benefit from up to 18 party or alliance members.

This way they won't get that god like power in a solo situation. It fits the self enhancement well, as it doesn't boost allies or make them over powered solo. It boost the RDM magic based on the number of allies they have in party or alliance. By having this boost the allies have enfeebles that actually do something worth giving at least one rdm a spot in the party/alliance.

[Lilia]

Geo JT or JA.

....
Ritual Tactics maybe...
....
....

create a ritual circle on the ground- why i think thats a idea for geo?

[Sarick]

Geo JT or JA.

....
Ritual Tactics maybe...
....
....

create a ritual circle on the ground- why i think thats a idea for geo?

Sounds like something SE would steal for a new job. This is a little different though as it uses party/alliance members not the elements.

[Kristal]

I keep forgetting Stun is a Dark Magic spell, so Stop as an enfeebling Stun would make sense. The Stun effect is more or less the most powerful "enfeeble" in the game so our most powerful enfeebler should have natural access.

RDM should simply get native access to Stun. RDM might only have an E-rank Dark Magic Skill, but that didn't keep SE from giving us a merit spell (Bio III) for it! RDM is probably the job that casts that spell the most as well.

And Adloquium. It would be great for both solo and party use.

[Calatilla]

IF you noticed, I've shot down just about every DD thing for RDM because it is not a DD, nor should it, if you want a DD mage, go play BLU. That is why I am more than glad to help out with buff, debuff things which is what I have done. Also to Manaking, if you think that about RDM, it just won't go anywhere, if its going to be a self buffer, it will have virtually no desire to be utilized for group work, and will have to survive on its own, which no offense, it really can't in this day and age. That and Debuffs are RDM's thing, I couldn't see how it wouldn't be.

Whenever discussing RDM, I always keep the job manifesto in mind...

Red Mage

Vision
Support specialists who excel at transforming their allies from mere mortals into demigods with their enhancements, while rendering once-formidable enemies impotent with enfeebling magic.

We want to see red mages play a more vital role in HNM battles by making enfeebling magic more effective against high-level notorious monsters and their legendary levels of resistance as well as allowing them to better contribute to party member enhancement.

SE's vision for RDM makes no sense. Considering all our buffs are self cast only barring 4(5 if merited phalanx II) how are we turning pt members into demigods again? And the spells we can cast on others (haste, refresh, pro/shell V)every other support mage has. We can make ourselves into minigods, but what good does that do us in a pt situation? And its been said before, enfeebling has been largely irrelevant since abyssea. WHM is better at turning your pt into demigods because all of their buffs are aoe, Boost-STR, Auspice, Pro/shellra V, barspells.

[Demon6324236]

SE's vision isn't important because they go against it. Thats why I never have bothered to pay any attention to that, as you said, WHM can do everything RDM practically and more. The only 1 spell we have that can be cast on others and others cant cast that I can think of off the top of my head, is Phalanx. Yes, Phalanx does make someone in PDT gear a god, but only if the thing hitting them hits low enough. The real vision they have for RDM is...


Vision
Mage heavy hybrids who excel at turning themselves in to demi-gods while rendering once-formidable enemies impotent with enfeebling magic. Able to use both sides of the magical spectrum while also having some melee capacity to make them a formidable force on the battlefield in any position.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

SE's vision isn't important because they go against it. Thats why I never have bothered to pay any attention to that, as you said, WHM can do everything RDM practically and more. The only 1 spell we have that can not be cast on others that I can think of off the top of my head, is Phalanx. Yes, Phalanx does make someone in PDT gear a god, but only if the thing hitting them hits low enough. The real vision they have for RDM is...

The money in the bank is they said "No" to higher tier enfeebles, and have added a great big 0 new enfeebles for RDM, yet announced a new job who will have unique, new enfeebles.

If one vision was screwed from the offset it was RDM's.

PS. Who cares if GEO's enfeebles will stack, when you'll be lucky to land one enfeeble in 6 fights in the first place.

Do you know a trait they should give RDM.

Immunobreak Accuracy - level 25
Immunobreak Accuracy II - level 45
Immunobreak Accuracy III - level 65
Immunobreak Accuracy IV - level 85
Immunobreak Accuracy V - level 99

(10 accuracy per level)

Then the update might be useful.

[Demon6324236]

Sounds alot like when I said this last page.
Rather than "Spell Precision" why not just have a "Magic Accuracy Bonus" trait, and have it scale for RDM has "Magic Attack Bonus" does with BLM? It would allow RDM to be the best at sticking spells, Sub would only give +24 and T2 of the trait where as RDM itself would get T6 of the trait, and a nice +40.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Sounds alot like when I said this last page.

It sort of is, but I don't believe Magic Accuracy works on Immunobreak, this would aid the enfeebling side as it increases the chance of it activating HUGELY while putting them ahead in enfeebling much more than BLM, WHM and SCH.

If Magic Accuracy does increase odds of activation then I'd much rather that over this.

[ManaKing]

I still don't have trouble landing enfeebles in Legion or VW. Immunobreak is honestly for other jobs. There aren't a lot of spells I can't land in 1 or 2 tries.

I do merit Earth and Ice in merit 1s. But honestly the only other things to merit was convert and I just don't need it up that often compared to landing slow and paralyze.

I still can't believe they never redid the merits for casters. They still look like shit.

[Kristal]

I still can't believe they never redid the merits for casters. They still look like shit.

Wasn't that still on the agenda? Don't forget, SAM isn't a caster and they need to find ways to make RDM merits suck even more then they already do. That takes some time.

[saevel]

I still don't have trouble landing enfeebles in Legion or VW. Immunobreak is honestly for other jobs. There aren't a lot of spells I can't land in 1 or 2 tries.

I do merit Earth and Ice in merit 1s. But honestly the only other things to merit was convert and I just don't need it up that often compared to landing slow and paralyze.

I still can't believe they never redid the merits for casters. They still look like shit.

Yeah if it's not straight up immune then it's not hard to land enfeebles. We have so much skill and base stats that overcoming the targets magic evasion isn't that big a deal.

[Crimson_Slasher]

My suggestions still come down to what ive been saying for a long time. For nostalgia i wanted to get them quoted from myself.


That, or at some point on the way to 99, we will be getting a JA that mirrors/transfers all our buffs currently active onto 1 or all party members with a 10 min recast...


I just thought up an idea, i could see a rdm, and a brd equivolent, and perhaps share it to sch, but im not sure if that would apply, but i have an idea for a fun debuff, could be balanced by duration, recast, or effect.

Parochialism - Forces special moves by target to only activate upon the target with the highest enmity.

Now this could be used for a single tp move, then wear off, or be a set duration (before resists) and have a longer recast so this cant be done all the time, though this wouldnt affect aoe spells. This could also (maybe?) prevent some shadow whiping tp moves not dispel the tank's shadows, and this is a substantially powerful party and endgame (HNM?) related enhancement.


I still think, playing as mage or melee rdm, the time for a blink II is at hand, possibly tier III even!


Stances: Doublecast/At Arms.
-Effects in short(doublecast): 50% more mp consumption, 50% more elemental and curing potency

-Balance: Costs more mp, and cure IV still is weaker than cure V, and thunder III is still weaker than IV, but closer, i used those spells with actual numbers but the forum logged me out and i cant be bothered to post it this second. Both become more potent though and get close to the next tier spell none the less. Though then we are almost stepping on their toes. Almost.

-Effects in short(At arms): Ex sword weaponskills, recrunched gain/phalanx/enspell calculations, enhanced combat skills, reduced mage prowesses somehow, convert a little mp to hp (15%?) and possibly some JA haste (5-7% haste?), and swap our native MAB and MDB traits to Attack bonus and Defense Bonus.


Also for something else that could be fun, see this link;
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/294-On-Red-Mage-melee...?p=191393#post191393

These may not be up to date anymore but i still think they are/were some decent ideas.

[Sarick]

The money in the bank is they said "No" to higher tier enfeebles, and have added a great big 0 new enfeebles for RDM, yet announced a new job who will have unique, new enfeebles.

If one vision was screwed from the offset it was RDM's.

PS. Who cares if GEO's enfeebles will stack, when you'll be lucky to land one enfeeble in 6 fights in the first place.

Do you know a trait they should give RDM.

Immunobreak Accuracy - level 25
Immunobreak Accuracy II - level 45
Immunobreak Accuracy III - level 65
Immunobreak Accuracy IV - level 85
Immunobreak Accuracy V - level 99

(10 accuracy per level)

Then the update might be useful.

This makes the job overpowered in solo situations. Something needs done to keep this power in check otherwise SE isn't going to give enfeebles any power. They don't want demigod soloest. If they had something like ritual tactics then their enfeebling powers would be kick ass in alliance situations. These enfeebles would be worthy of the vision you wrote without making them super strong solo. It's got to be something that makes players say "lets get a red mage!" Instead of "lets get something else more useful then a red mage!"

DEMI and Ritual tactics would be up there with SCH's embrova in utility. Instead of making the party/alliance stronger directly it makes the enemy weaker and as a result the members in the party/alliance can be more effective. Because of the weaknesses on the enemy the party/alliance is stronger to the weakened enemy. Player buffing makes allies stronger directly. Since SE refuses to make us the buffers then our nitch should be something like tactics to make the significantly enemy weaker.

If enfeebling is serious enough to have an major impact on the battle outcome then and only then will the job reach a potential of what it should be. I don't just mean accuracy I'm talking kick ass potency. What good is a paralyze that lands and procs maybe (IF LUCKY) once then wears after 3 seconds!

Chit! that's what it is..

[Merton9999]

*********** Please keep comments and criticism constructive. ***********


Spells:

Bravery – Increases a target party members attack; Overwritten by Faith. (30s recast)

Faith – Increases a target party members magic attack; Overwritten by Bravery. (30s recast)

Temper – Increases target party member’s chance of attacking twice. (30s recast)

Stop – Causes an enemy to stop temporarily. (45s Recast)

Ail – Inflicts an enemy with plague. (20s Recast)

Reversal - Swaps current TP with a member in your party. (Only applicable if user’s TP is equal to or higher than target’s TP.) (1min 30s Recast)

Hinder – Slightly reduces the target’s area-of-effect spell radius. (20s Recast)




Skill Rating:

Sword Skill Rating: B+
Enhancing Magic Rating: A





Weapon Skills:

Vorpal Blade
Sanguine Blade





Job Traits:


Fencer- Increases Critical Hit Rate when wielding with the main hand only. Grants a TP Bonus to weapon skills.

Fencer II- Increases Critical Hit Rate when wielding with the main hand only. Grants a TP Bonus to weapon skills.

Tranquil Heart II- Reduces enmity gain when casting healing magic.

Spell Precision- Slightly raises magic accuracy.

Spell Precision II- Slightly raises magic accuracy.





Job Abilities:


Enfoldment – Triples MP cost of an enhancing magic spell and converts its range to an area-of-effect spell. (1 min)

Entrapment- Triples MP cost of an enfeebling magic spell and converts its range to an area-of-effect spell. (1 min)


Of all these I like Hinder the best. It's a unique effect that could be very useful, which is what I'm looking for on the job. It would have to be potent initially, or let it stack.

I like the mutually exclusive Brave and Faith but as self target only. I just don't want another party buff to cycle on RDM. That's why I don't like Temper being party-castable. Yeah it would make the job more desirable in parties but after playing SCH so long after many years as RDM main, I can't stand maintaining anything but AOE enhancements anymore. But I like the idea of giving the RDM a sort of Arts but for magic vs melee instead of white vs black magic.

Ail sounds good too. SE keeps saying a plague spell would go to SCH because it's DoT but that's ridiculous to me, even with SCH being my favorite job. It strikes me as an enfeeble first, oT second.

[Metaking]

well im a blu and probably should not say anything but plague really isn't a dot, does no hp dmg, it reduces mp and tp which is nice in low man content which how useful for rdm im not sure on. my 2 cents on rdm i think yall should be bumped up to a- sword really think yall need a better formula on your en-spells and spikes cuz at one time adding like 15-20 dmg a strike was nice when even 2 handers were caping out at like 150 dmg and 1 handers would rocking the room at around 60-100 which would have been like a 10-15% boost on dmg, now a caped rdm i think can get it to 30(before enhances enspells) which would seem nice if it wasnt for the fact most melee hit for much much much more dmg now rdm included when using a good sword like almace and if you got a- skill would probly be in the about the 200-300 range that little 30 extra dmg is a decent amount more lacking no real reason your en-spells shouldn't be caped at like say a modest 50 (before enhances en-spell gear). Spikes im not sure how to change them, but yea when nms can have 200+ dmg spikes why cant we have like i don't know 50-70 dmg ones >.>;

[Babekeke]

SE Response - "Thank you all very much for your suggestions regarding Bravery and Faith. Unfortunately, we were completely stuck as to how to make SCH useful when we nerf Embrava, but giving them Bravery and Faith looks like it would do the trick just nicely. This does mean of course that we won't be able to give it to RDM as well.

Keep the suggestions coming!"

[ManaKing]

well im a blu and probably should not say anything but plague really isn't a dot, does no hp dmg, it reduces mp and tp which is nice in low man content which how useful for rdm im not sure on. my 2 cents on rdm i think yall should be bumped up to a- sword really think yall need a better formula on your en-spells and spikes cuz at one time adding like 15-20 dmg a strike was nice when even 2 handers were caping out at like 150 dmg and 1 handers would rocking the room at around 60-100 which would have been like a 10-15% boost on dmg, now a caped rdm i think can get it to 30(before enhances enspells) which would seem nice if it wasnt for the fact most melee hit for much much much more dmg now rdm included when using a good sword like almace and if you got a- skill would probly be in the about the 200-300 range that little 30 extra dmg is a decent amount more lacking no real reason your en-spells shouldn't be caped at like say a modest 50 (before enhances en-spell gear). Spikes im not sure how to change them, but yea when nms can have 200+ dmg spikes why cant we have like i don't know 50-70 dmg ones >.>;

That would pretty much do it for melee. If they made Enspell 2s more attractive at the same time, it wouldn't hurt either. It's that lack of growth from 75-99 that makes RDM look terrible more so than anything else. Our Spells were designed for lvl 75 and they didn't plan for beyond that.

[CapriciousOne]

*********** Please keep comments and criticism constructive. ***********


Spells:


1 Bravery – Increases a target party members attack; Overwritten by Faith. (30s recast)

2 Faith – Increases a target party members magic attack; Overwritten by Bravery. (30s recast)

3 Temper – Increases target party member’s chance of attacking twice. (30s recast)

4 Stop – Causes an enemy to stop temporarily. (45s Recast)

5 Ail – Inflicts an enemy with plague. (20s Recast)

6 Reversal - Swaps current TP with a member in your party. (Only applicable if user’s TP is equal to or higher than target’s TP.) (1min 30s Recast)

7 Hinder – Slightly reduces the target’s area-of-effect spell radius. (20s Recast)




8 Skill Rating:

Sword Skill Rating: B+
Enhancing Magic Rating: A





9 Weapon Skills:

Vorpal Blade
Sanguine Blade


Job Traits:


10 Fencer- Increases Critical Hit Rate when wielding with the main hand only. Grants a TP Bonus to weapon skills.

11 Fencer II- Increases Critical Hit Rate when wielding with the main hand only. Grants a TP Bonus to weapon skills.

12 Tranquil Heart II- Reduces enmity gain when casting healing magic.

13 Spell Precision- Slightly raises magic accuracy.

14 Spell Precision II- Slightly raises magic accuracy.


Job Abilities:


15 Enfoldment – Triples MP cost of an enhancing magic spell and converts its range to an area-of-effect spell. (1 min)

16 Entrapment- Triples MP cost of an enfeebling magic spell and converts its range to an area-of-effect spell. (1 min)

1, ,2, 3, 4, 5 Only concern for me is how long will the effect last on other members since it is usually less than it would if cast on ourselves, even without Composure
6 Well this goes back to the whole melee RDM complaints, if you not up front swinging how much tp will you really get unless the mob AoE attack often? Also dont most other DD job have some form of Double attack or Store tp effect that we dont get anyway to not really need this?
7 How much of and AoE radius reduction do you have in mind and for how long?
8 No complaints here other than the additional skilling that will be required but that is manageable
9 Only concern here is that the base damage for our weapon skills kind of suck compared to a dancing edge at 300 tp and think they will nerft it for us if we get it.
10, 11 I have absolutely no use for this as I /dnc and dual-wield alot
12 I never liked the idea of this trait as a more melee oriented rdm becuase it lowered the hate to get the mob attention and allowed me to skill up my sword especially when people would whine if i went up and attacked the mob directly, but that is also why I invested in enmity up merits as a middle finger to those people.
13,14 I like good idea
15, 16 Good idea but how long will the effect last on the targets within the Area of Effect because at 3x the MP for protect/shell V that is too expensive and not worth the cost to me. Also for "Enfoldment" this would just be better served having a whm in the party and just keeping him refreshed II for the mp cost since whm can AoE enfeebles for the exact same MP cost for RDM to cast on itself.

[Cicion]

Love Bravery and Faith ideas. Would like to add the spell Concentration into the mix increases target/casters fastcast scales with enhancing. A new Ja that swaps my tp and mp pool allowing me to self SC. Also dont see why rdms not getting regen 3-4. We got regen 1 the same lvl as whm at 21 then se decided were not getting another teir till 76. All for raising sword/dagger/enhancing and they can drop our divine skill to compensate since we have no native divine magic. Could drop our shield master trait and give us a quick magic as a more suitable job trait or auto refresh.