Gungnir needs to be addressed.

[Ophannus]

This is probably the billionth time a player has suggested something like this in the past 7 years since Relics were introduced but maybe this time something will change. I hope persistence pays off.

Gungnir is a powerful weapon no doubt. The strongest relic? Nay. But a powerful polearm in its own respect. There are two problems with Gungnir that need to be addressed.

Problem The First

Geirskogul's Aftermath.

The aftermath effect given to this lowly WS was Shock Spikes. Why it was given Shock Spikes nobody but the Developer in charge of battle content or items will know. My hypothesis is that back in 2004 it was surmised that DRG should have some kind of defensive attribute given to it that was also kind of offensive and would stun the mob upon hitting the DRG whenever the DRG pulled some kind of hate. That seems okay on paper but there are several flaws with that.
1) The Shock Spikes effects the DRG gains from Geirskogul aftermath are extremely puny. The Spikes deal 14-18 damage to most things and the stun effect rate is about the same as the BLM version of the spell (~5%).
2)Back when the weapon was created, DRG was already considered a flimsy damage dealer with subpar abilities and weapon skills that the notion of giving them a semi-defensive ability such as shockspikes was laughable because a DRG rarely drew hate ever unless there was a terrible situation where the tank died.

Fast forward to 2012, at level 99 the aftermath is even more of a joke now than ever. There's no point in using this WS for its aftermath because the shock spikes are extremely weak and the stun almost never activates. I don't know why the aftermath effects of relic weapons were not better balanced. Ragnarok is an extremely powerful relic and the icing on the cake is that Scourge's aftermath increases critical hit rate even further. Many melee relics add a useful, beneficial buff that increases damage output via enhanced crit(Mandau/Ragnarok) or a defensive trait (Bravura/Spharai/Excalibur). But by far the shock spikes effect on Gungnir's WS aftermath is a laughable joke, it's terrible, it's weak, the stun never procs, it doesn't even serve its purpose which was probably to buy the DRG a few seconds of time by stunning the mob so the DRG could either super jump or run away.

The second problem
All relics seem to have a unique attribute whether it's a special bonus on the weapon(Ragnarok's Critical Hit+ bonus), the damage of the WS(Mandau/Annhilator) a property if the weapon skill(Catastrophe's HP drain) or the aftermath effect(Mandau/Ragnarok/Guttler). Gungnir un fortunately has none of these. The Weapon skill is very weak and has an unreasonable AGI modifier for reasons unknown(DRG has one of the LOWEST AGI ratings in the game and gets almost no AGI gear), the aftermath is terrible as outlined in the previous paragraph, and there is no unique enhancement on the weapon that gets stronger with magian trials like Ragnarok's critical hit bonus. The only unique effect Gungnir was given was "Additional Effect: Defense Down"

Would it be possible to make this Defense Down a unique debuff that cannot be overwritten by any other source(Acid Bolt, Angon, Tourbillion) such that the effect is unique only to Gungnir and either stacks with other forms of defense down or is powerful enough effect that overwrites the others? There is nothing special about Gungnir except for the fact that it's the highest base damage polearm and has +40 accuracy, which every other 2handed relic have. Besides that, the unique bonuses from the WS and aftermath add nothing tactical for the job. Giving a unique and powerful defense down effect that can stack with other effects would make the weapon actually useful and rewarding for a player whose favorite job is DRG. The current power of the defense down is ~17%, I would be happy if the defense down was even lowered to 10% as long as it stacked with Angon or other defense down effects. Or perhaps increase the potency to 33% defense down but make the effect unstackable and irreplaceable with other forms of defense down. EIther way there should be something unique to Gungnir to make it stand out rather than just simply being a high DPS weapon. Most other relics have unique bonuses, strong WS, or very good aftermaths, gungnir has none of these!


3) Why can the special damage multiplier of Yoichinoyumi and Annihilator's apply to Barrage but Gungnir's can't proc on Jumps?

4) The Defense Down proc on Gungnir overwrites Angon. This is annoying not only because they don't stack but because Angon is more potent and it's undesirable to have a weaker effect overwrite a stronger one.

Suggestion for alternative aftermath effect: Replace Shock Spikes with
"Additional Effect: Damage varies with Wyvern HP." This is basically the exact same bonus as Excalibur's "Additional Effect: Damage Varies with HP" but instead of the player's HP determining the value of the additional damage, the Wyvern's HP would be the determining factor. The animation for the additional effect could even be an 'Enthunder' effect (opposed to Excalibur's Enlight effect) which would fit with the lore of Gungnir having lightning properties.

[Aarahs]

Pro-tip: don't use the relic weaponskill. There's nothing stopping you from using stardiver.

[Ophannus]

Obviously. But many relic WS are very good i.e Onslaught/Catastrophe/Mercy Stroke/Kaiten. Some are good mainly for the aftermath they grant. Gungnir has neither a good WS nor a good aftermath.

[Rekin]

Pro-tip: don't use the relic weaponskill. There's nothing stopping you from using stardiver.

Good job missing the point.

I agree with You Ophannus the weapon as a whole is very lackluster compare to it's peers and design is very flawed. I would love to see some new traits and changes to let it sync with the job more.

Anyone else notice how odd geirskogul's mod is AGI when thunder the element Gungnir seems to be all about is DEX? I know the game is old and I know SE and their devs aren't in a rush to make their game pretty anymore but some care would be appreciated.

[loldrg]

And while they're at it, make it look like Odin's Gungnir dammit. I haven't played in about 6 months, my favorite job was DRG, i got it "the old fashion" way, sponsoring Dyna runs back when Seraph still existed. Was quite an accomplishment for myself and the Dyna LS i was in. While i loved the weapon i agree completely that it needs to be revamped. /drg gear such as the lv 30 earring gives 5% haste, where the developers got the idea that shock spikes belonged with the job with a AGI mod is beyond common logic.

[Insaniac]

The shock spikes were probably intended for solo utility. The weapon should do something for your wyvern. Increased breath potency or wyvern HP, Drain HP for your wyvern like cata or Wyvern acc/att/haste.

[Rekin]

The shock spikes were probably intended for solo utility. The weapon should do something for your wyvern. Increased breath potency or wyvern HP, Drain HP for your wyvern like cata or Wyvern acc/att/haste.

That is the only reasonable thing I can think of for the WS's purpose. Otherwise I am hardpressed to find any real use for it. The damage is terrible, the additional effect is horrible and as a whole it is a waste of data.

[Ophannus]

If you could afford 400m back in 2004 chances are you didn't need to solo.

[Unctgtg]

I agree with you that Gungnir needs to be addressed. I know my Catastrophe now has some nice HP drain and the haste effect after is still nice. Has saved my life more times then not.

[Rekin]

I agree with you that Gungnir needs to be addressed. I know my Catastrophe now has some nice HP drain and the haste effect after is still nice. Has saved my life more times then not.

That is the disparity between wses/effects/aftermaths I hope we see addressed to gungnir and other relics. Honestly many relic weaponskills really don't cut it as far as "check out this super amazing weapon skill that can totally change how you play your job now that you've spent a great deal of time obtaining this weapon!"

[Ophannus]

I'd be content if they just made the DEF Down unique and stackable. I mean Aegis's MDT is made to surpass the MDT cap and Burtgang surpasses the PDT cap, why can't Agnon's Defense Down surpass the defense down 'cap' of only have one defense down effect on.

[Mayoyama]

Obviously. But many relic WS are very good i.e Onslaught/Catastrophe/Mercy Stroke/Kaiten. Some are good mainly for the aftermath they grant. Gungnir has neither a good WS nor a good aftermath.

I put in a request in the Producer Matsui (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26797-Let-Producer-Matsui-Know-How-He-Should-Catch-Up-on-2-Years!?p=356324#post356324) thread about Kikoku (and lolNagi). I 100% agree that some relics (and mythics) need to be re-examined and updated to be relevant and useful for the jobs that can equip. Aftermaths like shock spikes and subtle blow are not desirable traits

Although... I think the biggest LOLfactor will hands down go to relic staff.

[Ophannus]

There's a relic staff?

[JohnGotti]

This is probably the billionth time a player has suggested something like this in the past 7 years since Relics were introduced but maybe this time something will change. I hope persistence pays off.

Gungnir is a powerful weapon no doubt. The strongest relic? Nay. But a powerful polearm in its own respect. There are two problems with Gungnir that need to be addressed.

Problem The First

Geirskogul's Aftermath.

The aftermath effect given to this lowly WS was Shock Spikes. Why it was given Shock Spikes nobody but the Developer in charge of battle content or items will know. My hypothesis is that back in 2004 it was surmised that DRG should have some kind of defensive attribute given to it that was also kind of offensive and would stun the mob upon hitting the DRG whenever the DRG pulled some kind of hate. That seems okay on paper but there are several flaws with that.
1) The Shock Spikes effects the DRG gains from Geirskogul aftermath are extremely puny. The Spikes deal 14-18 damage to most things and the stun effect rate is about the same as the BLM version of the spell (~5%).
2)Back when the weapon was created, DRG was already considered a flimsy damage dealer with subpar abilities and weapon skills that the notion of giving them a semi-defensive ability such as shockspikes was laughable because a DRG rarely drew hate ever unless there was a terrible situation where the tank died.

Fast forward to 2012, at level 99 the aftermath is even more of a joke now than ever. There's no point in using this WS for its aftermath because the shock spikes are extremely weak and the stun almost never activates. I don't know why the aftermath effects of relic weapons were not better balanced. Ragnarok is an extremely powerful relic and the icing on the cake is that Scourge's aftermath increases critical hit rate even further. Many melee relics add a useful, beneficial buff that increases damage output via enhanced crit(Mandau/Ragnarok) or a defensive trait (Bravura/Spharai/Excalibur). But by far the shock spikes effect on Gungnir's WS aftermath is a laughable joke, it's terrible, it's weak, the stun never procs, it doesn't even serve its purpose which was probably to buy the DRG a few seconds of time by stunning the mob so the DRG could either super jump or run away.

The second problem
All relics seem to have a unique attribute whether it's a special bonus on the weapon(Ragnarok's Critical Hit+ bonus), the damage of the WS(Mandau/Annhilator) a property if the weapon skill(Catastrophe's HP drain) or the aftermath effect(Mandau/Ragnarok/Guttler). Gungnir un fortunately has none of these. The Weapon skill is very weak and has an unreasonable AGI modifier for reasons unknown(DRG has one of the LOWEST AGI ratings in the game and gets almost no AGI gear), the aftermath is terrible as outlined in the previous paragraph, and there is no unique enhancement on the weapon that gets stronger with magian trials like Ragnarok's critical hit bonus. The only unique effect Gungnir was given was "Additional Effect: Defense Down"

Would it be possible to make this Defense Down a unique debuff that cannot be overwritten by any other source(Acid Bolt, Angon, Tourbillion) such that the effect is unique only to Gungnir and either stacks with other forms of defense down or is powerful enough effect that overwrites the others? There is nothing special about Gungnir except for the fact that it's the highest base damage polearm and has +40 accuracy, which every other 2handed relic have. Besides that, the unique bonuses from the WS and aftermath add nothing tactical for the job. Giving a unique and powerful defense down effect that can stack with other effects would make the weapon actually useful and rewarding for a player whose favorite job is DRG. The current power of the defense down is ~17%, I would be happy if the defense down was even lowered to 10% as long as it stacked with Angon or other defense down effects. Or perhaps increase the potency to 33% defense down but make the effect unstackable and irreplaceable with other forms of defense down. EIther way there should be something unique to Gungnir to make it stand out rather than just simply being a high DPS weapon. Most other relics have unique bonuses, strong WS, or very good aftermaths, gungnir has none of these!




Suggestion for alternative aftermath effect: Replace Shock Spikes with
"Additional Effect: Damage varies with Wyvern HP." This is basically the exact same bonus as Excalibur's "Additional Effect: Damage Varies with HP" but instead of the player's HP determining the value of the additional damage, the Wyvern's HP would be the determining factor. The animation for the additional effect could even be an 'Enthunder' effect (opposed to Excalibur's Enlight effect) which would fit with the lore of Gungnir having lightning properties.

100% agree, Gungnir sure needs adressing. Dev reps can we have a answer regarding this please, pathetic aftermath indeed.

[Kriegsgott]

The aftermath effect given to this lowly WS was Shock Spikes. Why it was given Shock Spikes nobody but the Developer in charge of battle content or items will know. My hypothesis is that back in 2004 it was surmised that DRG should have some kind of defensive attribute given to it that was also kind of offensive and would stun the mob upon hitting the DRG whenever the DRG pulled some kind of hate. That seems okay on paper but there are several flaws with that.
1) The Shock Spikes effects the DRG gains from Geirskogul aftermath are extremely puny. The Spikes deal 14-18 damage to most things and the stun effect rate is about the same as the BLM version of the spell (~5%).
2)Back when the weapon was created, DRG was already considered a flimsy damage dealer with subpar abilities and weapon skills that the notion of giving them a semi-defensive ability such as shockspikes was laughable because a DRG rarely drew hate ever unless there was a terrible situation where the tank died.

Fast forward to 2012, at level 99 the aftermath is even more of a joke now than ever. There's no point in using this WS for its aftermath because the shock spikes are extremely weak and the stun almost never activates. I don't know why the aftermath effects of relic weapons were not better balanced. Ragnarok is an extremely powerful relic and the icing on the cake is that Scourge's aftermath increases critical hit rate even further. Many melee relics add a useful, beneficial buff that increases damage output via enhanced crit(Mandau/Ragnarok) or a defensive trait (Bravura/Spharai/Excalibur). But by far the shock spikes effect on Gungnir's WS aftermath is a laughable joke, it's terrible, it's weak, the stun never procs, it doesn't even serve its purpose which was probably to buy the DRG a few seconds of time by stunning the mob so the DRG could either super jump or run away.


i agree with you about the Gungnir part and btw the Subtle Blow shit from Spharai isn really helpfull too unless you solo a lot

[loldrg]

Is there a way to have Camate read this..? Would be nice to get an official response on the matter.

[Babekeke]

Is there a way to have Camate read this..? Would be nice to get an official response on the matter.

~50 likes on the OP usually does the trick, however there's a difference between a thread being read and a response being given. Many of the relics have issues: Stupid WS modifiers, ridiculous aftermaths, or daft additional effects. I personally don't see them ever being fixed. Just a shame that DRG only really becomes competetive with a mythic that costs 4 times as much as the bandwagnarok for WAR/DRK, or Masamune.

[ManaKing]

The only issue I ever saw with Gungir was that it overrides Angon, even when Angon is augmented to reduces defense by more.

[Tanama]

~50 likes on the OP usually does the trick, however there's a difference between a thread being read and a response being given. Many of the relics have issues: Stupid WS modifiers, ridiculous aftermaths, or daft additional effects. I personally don't see them ever being fixed. Just a shame that DRG only really becomes competetive with a mythic that costs 4 times as much as the bandwagnarok for WAR/DRK, or Masamune.

This.

The OP is at 40 Likes at the moment. More Gungnir and non-Gungnir owners alike need to view this thread and Like if they agree with the material.

[Yarly]

What's so great about Mandau that made the OP mention it?
Not saying I disagree, just curious.

[Mirage]

I agree, Gungnir could use some help. There's no reason why its AM should be as bad as it is. Either the defensive buff from the AM should be a lot stronger, or it should just get an offensive AM instead.

[Kirana]

100% agree with OP. The same can be said for Kikoku and the mage relics.

[Sapphires]

Hey don't forget about the Nin mythic Nagi, probably the worst weapon of the bunch and weakest weaponskill ever.

[Rezeak]

I'm gonna disagree with the OP, I feel Gungnir is a great weapon and overall it's the job that wields it that lets it down.

Let compare Ragnarok vs Gungnir

Relic WS --- > Aftermath

On both WSes you will lose ALOT DMG if you use the Relic WS and honestly Geirskogul is as strong as most relic WS (mods are all crap anyway). (This is an issue on almost all but like 3 relics so I dunno why ur so surprised)
Alot of aftermaths are better still doesn't change the fact on most relics you don't use the relic WS ever.

Additional effects

The def down effect in an Ally, will add more dmg that any other additional effect it's only issue/s is it doesn't stack with angon (it would be overpowered) and it does mean only 1 DRG per ally to gain the most benefit. (there are weaker relic effects out there).

Either way

Gungnir is not as bad as you making it sound, it really is no different from Ragnarok stat/use wise but the reason it is worth alot less is the job balance in the game atm. So really i'd say SE shouldn't bother with fixing gungnir until DRG is balanced with other jobs (and relic fixes are a bad way to do that).

As a side note, Great axe, Staff, Sword, Bow relics and maybe some others have more problems than Gungnir in my opinion.

[Kysaiana]

ALOT

After reading that, all I could think about was this (http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html).

Anyway the issue with Gungnir's add: effect isn't that it doesn't stack with Angon, it's that it's weaker than Angon and it overwrites Angon. Essentially making that merit useless if you have a Gungnir.

I don't disagree that a lot of other relics also have crappy WS/ WS mods even with the % boost by 99. Or that many other relics also have really useless Aftermaths (katana, H2H, Staff, etc.)

I think all of the relics with similar issues should be addressed. Long ago, when abyssea was still in its salad days, SE mentioned that all weapon skills were going to go through a revamp. I wonder if that's still going to happen some day, or if it was just something to make people shut up about ws procs in abyssea for a while.

[SNK]

I'm gonna disagree with the OP, I feel Gungnir is a great weapon and overall it's the job that wields it that lets it down.

Let compare Ragnarok vs Gungnir

Relic WS --- > Aftermath

On both WSes you will lose ALOT DMG if you use the Relic WS and honestly Geirskogul is as strong as most relic WS (mods are all crap anyway). (This is an issue on almost all but like 3 relics so I dunno why ur so surprised)
Alot of aftermaths are better still doesn't change the fact on most relics you don't use the relic WS ever.

Additional effects

The def down effect in an Ally, will add more dmg that any other additional effect it's only issue/s is it doesn't stack with angon (it would be overpowered) and it does mean only 1 DRG per ally to gain the most benefit. (there are weaker relic effects out there).

Either way

Gungnir is not as bad as you making it sound, it really is no different from Ragnarok stat/use wise but the reason it is worth alot less is the job balance in the game atm. So really i'd say SE shouldn't bother with fixing gungnir until DRG is balanced with other jobs (and relic fixes are a bad way to do that).

As a side note, Great axe, Staff, Sword, Bow relics and maybe some others have more problems than Gungnir in my opinion.

Sorry but you're really dead wrong. Comparing a Ragnarok to a Gungnir is stupid because there isn't any. There's a reason why so many damn great swords started appearing across all servers. Resolution. It went from being a very good weapon to a stupidly powerful weapon overnight.

Gungnir is just... lol The Aftermath is worthless and overall you shouldn't have to suffer it if you spent so much time building that weapon.

[Tanama]

Correct.


The weaponskill is worthless
The aftermath is worthless
The additional effect burdens Angon
and the occasionally deals double & 2.5x damage isn't even enough for it to be in the same league with Ryunohige's OATwice/Thrice


That said, the DRG job itself doesn't have the necessary tools to make use of such a weapon like how a DRK, SAM or WAR can wield their respective weapons.

Rhongomiant suffers similarly with one of the most terrible Empyrian weaponskills ever conceived. You would be lucky if you can pass 1200 damage with Camlann's Torment, even on Lv.75 fodder. :mad:

[Rezeak]

Sorry but you're really dead wrong. Comparing a Ragnarok to a Gungnir is stupid because there isn't any. There's a reason why so many damn great swords started appearing across all servers. Resolution. It went from being a very good weapon to a stupidly powerful weapon overnight.

Gungnir is just... lol The Aftermath is worthless and overall you shouldn't have to suffer it if you spent so much time building that weapon.

Yes, my point resolution is what makes Ragnarok an insane weapon not the aftermath, not the crit bonus nor the aftermath but because DRK as a job is powerful.

If you swapped Ragnarok's stats with Gungnir then it would be a stronger weapon.

Btw Rags WS and Aftermath are both useless. Yes, Crit + after math is nice but not if it costs 50% + of your WS DMG to keep up.

The point i'm making is that, maybe the issue is more to do with DRG and the way angon works than it is to do with the relic and mayyybe it might be better for the dev team to rebalance DRG than try to rebalance gear that it could equip.

Then you have other relics like Excalibur which SE told PLDs you can't have additional effect proc while enlight is up meaning it would actually lose a PLD dmg and 30-50 acc just to use there additional effect meaning all excalibur is, is a +attack ODD sword.

[SNK]

Yes, my point resolution is what makes Ragnarok an insane weapon not the aftermath, not the crit bonus nor the aftermath but because DRK as a job is powerful.

Honestly people scoffed at DRK being a DD until Resolution came out. It was pretty terrible that a job built for damage couldn't keep up vs an Ukon WAR or a Masa SAM.

Then Resolution changed the game and now it's a top teir DD like it should have been in the 1st place.

[Rekin]

Honestly people scoffed at DRK being a DD until Resolution came out. It was pretty terrible that a job built for damage couldn't keep up vs an Ukon WAR or a Masa SAM.

Then Resolution changed the game and now it's a top teir DD like it should have been in the 1st place.
While I still don't agree with Rezeak about Gungnir I understand his point. Dragoon itself is an underpowered job. As a 2hander its damage falls far behind other 2hander DDs. If the job's point was to fill in a niche it isn't doing a good job if the vanadiel consensus means anything.

[Motenten]

The only thing needed to fix Gungnir as a weapon is to make it such that def down procs never overwrite a stronger def down effect (this should apply to all forms of def down; Acid Bolts should not overwrite Angon, basic merit Angon should not overwrite relic+2 Angon, etc).

The relic weaponskill could use an overhaul, but that could be said of almost all relic weaponskills, so is a completely separate issue.

The aftermath is largely irrelevant since you'll never use the relic weaponskill. Until the relic weaponskills are overhauled, there's no reason to consider any aftermath changes.

The problems with drg's damage are due to two issues:

1) The inability to get both the attack+DA of /war and the haste+store tp of /sam. All three other 2-hander jobs (war, drk, sam) get both benefits (or basically equivalent, in the case of drk/war). While this makes drg the weakest of the 2-hander jobs, it's better to say that it puts drg in amongst all the other DD jobs in the game (and probably more at the lead of those other jobs), and that it's a flaw in allowing just those 3 jobs to get those doubled-up benefits.

2) The horrible weaknesses of the wyvern in high-level content (mainly breath attacks and the usual problems of buffing pets).

Neither of those are the fault of Gungnir, which is itself a solidly respectable weapon. If you factored out the double benefits those other 2-handed jobs get, a Gungnir drg would be roughly on par with them.

[solidous]

I have an idea that could fix a lot of the jobs problems as well at remove the LOLgungnir waste of 200mil mindset.
Change Geirskogul properties to hp drain like catastrophe but to heal you pet instead. The Dev team farctors in the pets damage yet the poor thing is always dead (even with the pdt they added a while back). This would not only up the pets suvivability but also boost you damage, and would let a drg play like a drg, not a drk sam or war. The pet offers many great things but on anything over DC its only use is for an extra body to take 10,000 needles or Odin V1 10k move....

[Martel]

My wyvern survives fine at ADL, Legion(even Mul), and Provenance. Usually, the only time he dies, is if I die. Or I get amnesia'd and can't use Spirit link/steady wing. And I'm not going so far as to carry Dawn Mulsum.

As for the Geirskogul idea. People still wouldn't use it. Geir is SO bad, that you'll likely get more DMG from NOT having a wyvern and using normal jumps +Stardiver. A wyvern restore on Geir would be purely a solo tool. And not one that's really needed.

[solidous]

Well then you wyvern's name must be Fafnir, last time I check pet cant get PD. O.o; I am trying to give the weapons skill utility to used when needed. if they want to up the damage or change the mods im all for it too. Now if you pet survives Botulus Rex id be impressed. Call wyven's recast is 20 minutes lets not forget that.

[Martel]

Correct, you can't spirit link PD to wyvern(or embrava -.-). But most of the fights are short, and there should be stunners preventing some of the AoEs. Now, this does assume a competent group, and that things went well. But If things go badly in any of those events, your wyvern's survival will be the least of your worries.

Wyvern's also have a innate -40% DT. And steady wing SS can block a good ~1.5K DMG when timed right(technically, you can get more outta it than that, but letting the wyvern get too low before using it is risky. Wyverns have far greater survivability than they used to.

I think gungnir owners would rage hard if SE did decide to adjust gungnir, then made the change a wyvern enhancement.

Really, DRG just needs adjustments in general, rather than relic specific fixes. Although I do think the add def down overwriting angon should be addressed.

[Ophannus]

Wyverns have better survivability than Dragoons do, unless you count PD which soon won't matter much.

[Amador]

Hello Ophannus,

Haven't played in months, but seeing a thread like this asking for help on likes does make me want to come back and be like alright! Some sense still stands in this game!

I hope it works out Ophannus, not really for my sake, I'd love it if Gungnir was better. It feels like such a wasted investment, and a regret for me since I put an entire LS through HELL for it.

It'd be nice to see something from it put to greater use than it's current standing.

In any case,

Kind regards.

[Umichi]

I always viewed Gugnir as the solo dragoons choice in a ultimate weapon, we do have two other weapons you can use that have better aftermaths for party/alliance play and might i also point out stardiver's aftermath. please dont fix it if anything just balance it out i plan on owning this weapon in the future. fix the modifier to vit or something :3


Edit: upon further reading i concur with fixing the defense down.

[Jaall]

I'd rather SE didn't put all their time into fixing gungnir and simply jut fixed DRG so that it can compete with other DD's. It's a great job and Gungnir would also be better if DRG was better. Nobody really uses relic ws's or at least not that i've seen simply because the merit ws's are better and I don't think DRG should have more priority because that will lead to nerfs later on and drg can't afford to be nerfed!

[Landon]

Something definitely needs to be done with Gungnir's modifier. I mean AGI? It's supposed to be thunder based and therefore DEX should be the mod. And the least they could do is not have def. down overwrite Angon or a more powerful one. Those two things alone would make most DRG happy. so please SE its a simple fix!!

[Ophannus]

Nothing about the WS indicates its thunder based. Even Cloudsplitter which is a thunder animation WS is STR/MND.

[SpankWustler]

I got this. I just finished this letter addressed to Gungnir. I'm all over this!

Dearest Gungnir,

As we march towards Quebec this frigid Winter, my thoughts often turn to you as I wrap my feet with rags. A little while after that, I think about killing and eating Private Johnson. There's a lot on my mind, I guess?

I think about the AGI modifier on your weaponskill, I think about the Shockspikes of your Aftermath, I think about the priority of your Defense Down additional effect. I think of these things often, and my hatred of them keeps me warm over these frozen plains and hills.

Eagerly do I await my return home after this fool's campaign, when I will grip you tightly in both hands that I might better hurl you into the ocean after completing a Ryunohige.

Lots of Hugs and Kisses,
Corporal Spank M. Wustler

[Aldaris]

But really do people think Gungnir will be fixed anytime soon. I've had one for quite a while now and like many of you waiting for something like making Angon a unique ability to help Gungnir. Yet not even one developer rep will even respond to this post. Do they not care anymore? Diablo 3 is a game I play and while it has more issue than FFXI at least the devs respond to posts on the official forums. Why will they not answer us?

[loldrg]

This is a bump in hope that Camate will read this, please address not just Gungnir's WS, but all relic WS when they update RME to be on par with Delve weapons. Please add the proper mods for WS, none of this AGI mumbo jumbo please and thank you!

[Demon6324236]

This is a bump in hope that Camate will read this, please address not just Gungnir's WS, but all relic WS when they update RME to be on par with Delve weapons. Please add the proper mods for WS, none of this AGI mumbo jumbo please and thank you!That and also please make the AMs worth something, not all of them are good, many are terrible in every way, like 10HP/Tick Regen, Shock Spikes, Subtle Blow, these need replaced!

[Aldaris]

Well at least its not as bad as Diablo 3 where EVERYTHING is basically a scratch off ticket that u never win on

[Helldemon]

I always viewed Gugnir as the solo dragoons choice in a ultimate weapon, we do have two other weapons you can use that have better aftermaths for party/alliance play and might i also point out stardiver's aftermath. please dont fix it if anything just balance it out i plan on owning this weapon in the future. fix the modifier to vit or something :3


Edit: upon further reading i concur with fixing the defense down.

You do realize the the aftermath is worthless? 5-15 damage and a non-existent proc rate on the stun. I have been hit thousands of times with the spikes up and only seen the stun proc twice and a majority of these hits were on low lvl mobs, 30-40 levels lower even.


That and also please make the AMs worth something, not all of them are good, many are terrible in every way, like 10HP/Tick Regen, Shock Spikes, Subtle Blow, these need replaced!

At least every other relic and I do mean every relic has some kind of use in their aftermath but gungnirs has absolutely no use and never has or will if it is not fixed. I'm not saying some of the others shouldn't be revamped either though.

They gave us an even bigger slap in the face with our plasm weapon being weaker then every plasm weapon when our "weak" relic can beat it on some occasions. It stands no chance against mythic though. Every other jobs plasm weapon blows their stronger RME out of the water.

[Babekeke]

They gave us an even bigger slap in the face with our plasm weapon being weaker then every plasm weapon when our "weak" relic can beat it on some occasions. It stands no chance against mythic though. Every other jobs plasm weapon blows their stronger RME out of the water.

This is what I thought about the delve weapon too. I did ask for other people's thoughts on it in another thread, but got no replies ><

At least the delve boss weapon is freaking awesome though... when I can get a win, that's definately where my plasm is going.

[Helldemon]

Don't believe my server has a single NA win on any delve megabosses atm :(

[Babekeke]

Wow, that sucks. Pretty sure people will be selling spots to people who need wins before long on Phoenix.

[Babekeke]

The second problem
All relics seem to have a unique attribute whether it's a special bonus on the weapon(Ragnarok's Critical Hit+ bonus), the damage of the WS(Mandau/Annhilator) a property of the weapon skill(Catastrophe's HP drain) or the aftermath effect(Mandau/Ragnarok/Guttler). Gungnir un fortunately has none of these. The Weapon skill is very weak and has an unreasonable AGI modifier for reasons unknown(DRG has one of the LOWEST AGI ratings in the game and gets almost no AGI gear), the aftermath is terrible as outlined in the previous paragraph, and there is no unique enhancement on the weapon that gets stronger with magian trials like Ragnarok's critical hit bonus. The only unique effect Gungnir was given was "Additional Effect: Defense Down"

It's not a lot, but part of this is at last being addressed... with an 80% DEX mod as of the 17th July 2014 update (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/42588-dev1216-Weapon-Skill-Adjustments?p=511125#post511125)

Also, Camlann's Torment is getting an additional 60% STR on top of it's current 60% VIT mod.

[Ophannus]

Should be pretty sweet. That puts Geirskogul somewhere on par with Tachi Fudo(before new changes) and Camlann's Torment well above Tachi Fudo(before new changes). They should both be pretty solid weapons skills. Though with Gungnir's +40% Geirskogul damage, Geirskogul will probably be stronger of the two against targets in which don't have massive defense. Hopefully, since Drakesbane and Penta Thrust were not visibly changed, their Attack penalties were at least removed...

[Tennotsukai]

Hopefully, since Drakesbane and Penta Thrust were not visibly changed, their Attack penalties were at least removed...

I really hope so. Why wouldn't they make any adjustments on drakesbane? I always thought the ws was meh...

[Lithera]

Lol there was a time groups wouldn't let people come on Drg if they didn't have drakesbane.

[Riki]

well 2 years on and he got some of what he wanted...

No longer oevr rides angon and now has a DEX mod... ohh and the Ws dosent suck anymore.

But yeah lol shockspikes

[Technikatwo]

"Shock Spikes" is a waste of an Aftermath slot, how about changing it to something DD based like "Weapon Skill DMG +%"?

[V-1000]

141 likes 6 pages of discussion and 0 SE statement/acknowledgement thats whats sad.............

[Helldemon]

well 2 years on and he got some of what he wanted...

No longer oevr rides angon and now has a DEX mod... ohh and the Ws dosent suck anymore.

But yeah lol shockspikes

It still sucks, Camlann's and Stardriver still destroy it.



"Shock Spikes" is a waste of an Aftermath slot, how about changing it to something DD based like "Weapon Skill DMG +%"?

Shock spikes could be fine as a solo tool if it wasn't so pathetically weak. Give it 30-40% chance on proc and a good duration along with 100+ dmg spikes and that would be fine. When I was doing trials at 99(?) the crabs in kuftal tunnel never once got stunned and it was doing 4-5 dmg lol.