BST DoT increase: A modest suggestion

[Malthar]

Hello SE,

I'd like to talk about the ability spur. Currently, the only effect spur has on the pet is store-tp. May we also have 15% haste added to the pet for 1.5 minutes?

And for all the beastmasters that read this, I strongly urge and spur you to like this post so that SE will look at it and give it serious consideration.

Thank you.

[Caketime]

I like this idea, but the devs hate us and don't want to make our ablities any better, especially the terrible ones. Also, I'm pretty sure an old BST will come in here to remind us of the few pieces of existing haste gear for pets and then try to imply that anyone who doesn't already have/use said gear is terrible and should quit the job.

It really is a nice idea, though.

[Calamity]

Hello SE,

I'd like to talk about the ability spur. Currently, the only effect spur has on the pet is store-tp. May we also have 15% haste added to the pet for 1.5 minutes?

And for all the beastmasters that read this, I strongly urge and spur you to like this post so that SE will look at it and give it serious consideration.

Thank you.

I was gonna like... but then came the pun -.-

[Shadax]

Never gonna happen, but I liked anyway.

[Calamity]

Never gonna happen, but I liked anyway.

It's true. I could believe maybe 5%, but there's no way they'd consent to 15%. The main thing that makes Spur almost useless is that even without spur, our pet gains 100tp faster than our ready timer refills. Honestly the only time I use spur at all is when I first pull my pet out and start fighting just so I get the first attack sooner. After that it's pointless. What I would suggest instead, is increase our ready charges at higher levels. SCH gets more stratagems the higher they get, I feel like ready should get the same treatment. Even if it was only an increase from 3 to 4, it would make a difference. I keep hoping that maybe one day SE would do this, but I don't have my hopes very high I must admit.

[Malthar]

Well, if all the beastmasters come out and like the original post, they'll have no choice but to take notice. It's the least they own us from that pet TH fiasco.

[Calamity]

Well, if all the beastmasters come out and like the original post, they'll have no choice but to take notice. It's the least they own us from that pet TH fiasco.

Oh they'll notice. And if we're very very lucky they'll respond and say no. If not so lucky, they won't respond at all. They've taken plenty of notice over how overwhelmingly unhappy we are with the 2hr, but all we've gotten out of that is stoneskin instead of reraise. Not something I'd call a victory.

[Karbuncle]

Instead of asking for an Insane Amount of Haste, Why not ask for something, say, Reasonable? Yes 15% Haste is the average for a Spell, But when think about other Pet jobs, Some way worst off than BST... It seems Absurd. Everyone <3's their job the best, But we need to objectively handle improvements.

SMN and PUP Are the only jobs who's pets can receive haste, SMN Only has 1 Avatar, Garuda, Who can, and PUP only has 2 heads, RDM and WHM. So they're limited in that regard (And I'm 99% certain PUP Heads can't haste themselves, So i could be entirely wrong on PUP)

That said... Spur would be nice if it could be improved a little, But i recommend something way more realistic. Lets stick with the haste idea, But instead of making it 15%, How about 5%, or 10%?

Or, Better yet, Could always have Spur give a Slight Accuracy and Attack Boost. Right now, Spur offers what, Store TP 3 at base, But up to Store TP V with the Gloves?

Spur could also grant.

Accuracy Bonus III~V
Attack Bonus III~V.

This wouldn't be as "Broken" in SE's eyes as 15% Haste for this ability, and would act as a slight Berserk/Aggressor for our pet. Adding a good chunk of Accuracy and Attack on top of the Store TP. Alternatively, It could add the above, as well as a small amount of haste (5%).

Have to think of it in terms of expected reality, Not wishlist numbers. Hope that helps, +1'd anyway.

[Caketime]

So bsaically you don't like this idea because it would be a nice thing. Why do you hate nice things?

[Rezeak]

Augmented BST 2hr = +10% haste
AMK head = + 5% haste
Earthen feet = + 3% haste
Moepapa Stone = + 5% haste

And Run wild also grants some haste

While i'm not saying it's broken there is already alot of pet Haste sources for bst

[Xilk]

some of us have 4% pet haste on the earthen feet.

I like the idea, but I have my doubts they would make spur better than our 2 hour.

[noirin]

Considering you need to augment your relic Legs to get that 10% familiar haste boost, i highly doubt SE is just going to toss 15% onto some random ability.

[Karbuncle]

Just a reminder, Even if you don't completely agree with the OP... Good idea to give a like if you want something for BST on that ability.

Even if they don't want to give 15% haste, They might see the demand for some additions to Spur is high and look into it. Stop being stingy with your +'s, it doesn't cost you anything to hit it.

Do ettt

[Fadnog]

I personally think that if Spur were to be buffed SE should give it a small amount of haste (maybe ~5%) and a some degree of Acc bonus (maybe Acc Bonus 1 or 2). This would then help the ability do what it was designed to do, help the pet build Tp.

[Calamity]

What does everyone think of the idea of adding more ready charges at higher levels? I think this would be beneficial, and it would have the side effect of actually making spur more useful. I suggest this because I feel hopeful that SE might actually take this suggestion into consideration and not just outright say no. If you like it please like, and hopefully one of our ideas will be acknowledged.

[Cabalabob]

If you're already hitting 100% tp before you have the charges to use abilities then haste wouldn't be that useful, I'd say make it lower the cost of abilities by 1 (to a minimum of 1) so 2 charges would become 1 charge 3 charges would become 2, that way you'd be getting more abilities in where having haste would do nothing

[Malthar]

You're missing the point of the original post. Haste will increase the pet's DoT. Pet TP moves do not do as much damage as regular mele over the same time it takes to get 100% tp. BST needs more damage. I'm a relic bst with a 95 guttler but whenever I ask to go bst in voidwatch I get laughed at. I've suggested allowing the pet to start / end skillchains to SE, but they are wan reluctant to accept that idea. So, I asked for increase haste. And 15% haste is not a ridiculous amount of haste. I'm aware that the +2 relic augmented pants can add 10% haste for it's 2hr. Personally, I think that should have been 15%. And other gear such as the anwig salade and e.feet can add a total of 8% haste extra, but that takes away from the master's DoT, which is a considerable sacrifice when wielding a guttler. The original post was to suggest increasing the pet's DoT so that bst can be more useful in end game events. I mean, come on! It's not a game breaker to give the pet a little more haste.

[Arcon]

15% Haste is overpowered and it still wouldn't get your BST into Voidwatch. BST will never have a place in Voidwatch (other than a proccer if the alliance leader is in a good mood). Not all jobs will be eligible for every event. It would be nice if that was the case, but it's not and I'm willing to bet it will never be. And this is most definitely not a solution for that particular problem either. That's the same complaint that Mandau RDMs have for not being recognized as efficient melee. It's a matter of great importance to them, but they can't see that not every job can have the same capabilities in every department. If a BST DD could compare to other heavy DDs (which is the only way they'd be wanted in VW as DDs), no one would want regular DDs anymore, because BST could do damage as well as them, and several other things on top of it.

[Malthar]

Sooo... You're saying that if bst can do as much damage as other mele then people would only opt for bst and other mele would never get chosen? That makes no sense. If bst could do as much damage as other mele they would be included, as well as the other mele, in endgame events such as voidwatch. The main reason bst doesn't get chosen is that it can't do as much damage as the other mele.

And I'm not saying that giving 15% haste to bst would solve all our problems, but it would be a start.

And to give an unqualified statement such as "15% haste is overpowered" without supporting argument is obtuse.

[Caketime]

15% Haste is overpowered and it still wouldn't get your BST into Voidwatch. BST will never have a place in Voidwatch (other than a proccer if the alliance leader is in a good mood). Not all jobs will be eligible for every event. It would be nice if that was the case, but it's not and I'm willing to bet it will never be. And this is most definitely not a solution for that particular problem either. That's the same complaint that Mandau RDMs have for not being recognized as efficient melee. It's a matter of great importance to them, but they can't see that not every job can have the same capabilities in every department. If a BST DD could compare to other heavy DDs (which is the only way they'd be wanted in VW as DDs), no one would want regular DDs anymore, because BST could do damage as well as them, and several other things on top of it.

Who cares about Logwatch anyway? Also, prove that 15% Haste is overpowered, please cite parses and/or statistical data supporting your claim.

[Arcon]

Sooo... You're saying that if bst can do as much damage as other mele then people would only opt for bst and other mele would never get chosen? That makes no sense. If bst could do as much damage as other mele they would be included, as well as the other mele, in endgame events such as voidwatch.

Wrong. Other melee require healing, buffing and constant upkeep, pets don't. If BST did as much damage as regular melee they wouldn't be as good as them, they would be strictly better. So bringing other melee also requires buffers and healers, which take up additional slots in the alliance, whereas BST wouldn't.


And I'm not saying that giving 15% haste to bst would solve all our problems, but it would be a start.

And I'm saying BST doesn't have a problem. Your "TH nerf" didn't do shit to BST, it's still the best Dynamis farming job out there, and by a good margin. This is not your first suggestion to BST that stemmed from nothing more than you wanting your job of choice to be better for no reason other than you not feeling loved enough.


And to give an unqualified statement such as "15% haste is overpowered" without supporting argument is obtuse.

First of all, it's been pointed out before why that's the case, a few times already just in this thread. Secondly, I don't feel the need to because you suggested it exactly the same way, with no supporting argument whatsoever other than "I want it", same as with your Guttler thread.

Edit:

Who cares about Logwatch anyway?

The OP.


Also, prove that 15% Haste is overpowered, please cite parses and/or statistical data supporting your claim.

Asking for parses of something that doesn't exist, so if I can't provide them you think you win the argument? Clever move. But since you asked so nicely for an argument:
Pets can already get 14% Haste (not counting Run Wild or augmented 2hr). Another 15% brings the total to 29%. That's 86% delay versus 71% delay. That's a 21% increase in damage output. So you're asking for the already best farming job (by far) and one of the best, if not the best survivor jobs to increase their damage output by more than one fifth of its original value. Several times larger than that if Run Wild is active, even larger with the 2hr active, since Haste gets more beneficial the higher the value gets.

As I said before, BST currently rank up there with melee RDM when it comes to the validity of their requests. They're not satisfied with what they have (and unlike RDM, they actually have a lot at this point in the game) and want something their class wasn't designed for to compensate for imaginary needs.

[Malthar]

A-ha! You're a beast hating troll, aren't you? I knew it!!!

[Caketime]

The OP.

The OP contains a general request to increase the effectiveness of Spur, VW wasn't mentioned specifically. The poster also doesn't mention VW specifically as the reason why Spur should be changed.



Asking for parses of something that doesn't exist, so if I can't provide them you think you win the argument? Clever move. But since you asked so nicely for an argument:
Pets can already get 14% Haste (not counting Run Wild or augmented 2hr). Another 15% brings the total to 29%. That's 86% delay versus 71% delay. That's a 21% increase in damage output. So you're asking for the already best farming job (by far) and one of the best, if not the best survivor jobs to increase their damage output by more than one fifth of its original value. Several times larger than that if Run Wild is active, even larger with the 2hr active, since Haste gets more beneficial the higher the value gets.

Please provide proof that Run Wild increases Haste. Also, what I'm getting from your post is that because we're good at farming and soloing 75 content we're not allowed to be viable for newer content? That's interesting.

[Arcon]

The OP contains a general request to increase the effectiveness of Spur, VW wasn't mentioned specifically. The poster also doesn't mention VW specifically as the reason why Spur should be changed.

I never said that. I said he cares about VW, because you asked me who did.


Please provide proof that Run Wild increases Haste.

No.


Also, what I'm getting from your post is that because we're good at farming and soloing 75 content we're not allowed to be viable for newer content? That's interesting.

You're not getting much. Not that I'd expect much, based on our previous encounters.

[Caketime]

If you can't provide simple proof then your claims are inaccurate at best. I love your taste in hats, by the way.

[Arcon]

If you can't provide simple proof then your claims are inaccurate at best.

No, they're spot on. I said specifically that I did not count Run Wild in my argument. So why should I provide proof for something that's not part of my argument?


I love your taste in hats, by the way.

Thanks.

[Caketime]

So not having proof is OK in this one circumstance because...? You mentioned Run Wild as part of your above post in reference to Haste, and now you're saying you never included it despite mentioning it in your post as a source of Haste? All I asked was that you prove it does what you say. You still haven't proven the basis of your argument either, at this point it's like watching a Politician backpedal on the issues.

[Arcon]

So not having proof is OK in this one circumstance because...?

Because it's not part of my argument.


You mentioned Run Wild as part of your above post in reference to Haste, and now you're saying you never included it despite mentioning it in your post as a source of Haste? All I asked was that you prove it does what you say.

Yes, I mentioned it. I said "not counting Run Wild". So even if it doesn't add any Haste at all, my argument still stands. You ask me to prove something that a) I can't prove and b) is not part of my argument or this thread.


You still haven't proven the basis of your argument either, at this point it's like watching a Politician backpedal on the issues.

Everything I said is still valid. You're just nitpicking the one thing in my post that I can't prove, despite it being completely irrelevant. It's like not wanting to accept someone's argument for why movement speed is good because they can't prove the Riemann hypothesis.

[Caketime]

If it's irrelevant then why did you mention it at all? You also implied that it's a source of Haste, which is why we're still talking about it. Your previous post claiming that if BST had a better Spur we would be the only job doing VW isn't far reaching at all either, it's just funny. We haven't been accepted for events for years now, one change does not have the capacity to make BST the only job used for anything, we still have a Ready timer that holds back our pet's TP moves. If it were actually possible for us to spam Lamb Chop or Fantod on bosses then I'd agree with you, but we both know that any change to Spur wouldn't facilitate that unless Ready were changed along with it. In fact, to get the job to the level you're trying to claim the entire thing would need a huge overhaul because it's just not built for massive damage output on a constant basis like heavy DD can.

I'm willing to agree that 15% Haste is a bit high for an ability on a 5 minute timer, but anyone claiming that boosting Spur in some meaningful way will suddenly throw off the delicate balance (lol) and make BST the only job anyone uses is completely ridiculous.

[Arcon]

If it's irrelevant then why did you mention it at all?

Because it's suspected to add Haste. And because I don't know for sure, I said that even without that, it's still a huge increase in DPS. Just so people wouldn't think that my calculations assumed shit that wasn't confirmed yet.


Your previous post claiming that if BST had a better Spur we would be the only job doing VW isn't far reaching at all either, it's just funny.

Only I never said that. I said that BST won't be accepted to VW unless it deals the same amount of damage as heavy DDs. However, if they do the same damage as heavy DDs, they're not just great DDs but also have great survivability. Hence, they'd be objectively better than any other DD, and if they're better why would people want other DDs anymore? It's the pure truth that people will go for the best possible setups, which is why BST currently is not being invited to VW.

[Malthar]

One vital fact that you're overlooking is that equiping gear that hastes the pet seriously gimps the master. I don't know about you, but my guttler and I out DD my pet significantly. 15% haste added to spur ever 1.5 minutes is minuscule compared to the reduction in DoT the master gets penalized by equiping gear that hastes the pet.

[Arcon]

One vital fact that you're overlooking is that equiping gear that hastes the pet seriously gimps the master.

You're confusing vital with irrelevant. Don't use that gear then, even naked it's still over 15% gain in DPS.

[Malthar]

You're missing the point. With gear the pet gains haste and consequently a higher DPS.
Conversely, with gear the master looses haste, attack, acc, etc and consequently looses significantly more DPS.
The master significantly out DD's the pet.
Both offenses added equal the total amount of damage.
The damage done with pet haste gear on the master vs haste gear for the master is less.
15% haste contribution to the pet without gear will not make the damage from the pet and master combined overpowered.

It's so simple, why can't you see that?
Or was my original estimation correct that you're a pet hating troll?

[Cabalabob]

You're missing the point of the original post. Haste will increase the pet's DoT. Pet TP moves do not do as much damage as regular mele over the same time it takes to get 100% tp. BST needs more damage. I'm a relic bst with a 95 guttler but whenever I ask to go bst in voidwatch I get laughed at. I've suggested allowing the pet to start / end skillchains to SE, but they are wan reluctant to accept that idea. So, I asked for increase haste. And 15% haste is not a ridiculous amount of haste. I'm aware that the +2 relic augmented pants can add 10% haste for it's 2hr. Personally, I think that should have been 15%. And other gear such as the anwig salade and e.feet can add a total of 8% haste extra, but that takes away from the master's DoT, which is a considerable sacrifice when wielding a guttler. The original post was to suggest increasing the pet's DoT so that bst can be more useful in end game events. I mean, come on! It's not a game breaker to give the pet a little more haste.

I'm not missing the point, I know what the OP is asking for and it should not be added.

First, out of the pet jobs SMN is the DD class, BST is the tank class, so 15% is an insane amount of haste for a 5min ability.
Second, all spur does at the moment is increase STP, which suggests its an ability designed to increase ability frequency, which I understand, cause It will help the pet hold hate (hence my suggestion to change it to lower charge costs because increased ability uses means increased hate which is fitting for a tank class and It still also satisfies the OP's need for more damage to a lesser extent.

[Arcon]

You're missing the point. With gear the pet gains haste and consequently a higher DPS.
Conversely, with gear the master looses haste, attack, acc, etc and consequently looses significantly more DPS.

It's common courtesy to read other people's posts before replying to them. You obviously didn't read mine. I said specifically that even with no Pet Haste gear at all the boost is still at least 15% (it's actually at least ~17.5%). So don't use any gear for it at all, it's still a large boost. With gear it would just be higher.

I'm pretty sure my original assessment was correct in that you're a BST fanboy who just wants his job to get better for no rhyme or reason. The only argument you've ever mentioned for it is that you didn't get invited to Voidwatch. This request is about as valid as me suggesting to boost WAR's damage by another 10% just because there was a SAM once who landed a higher Tachi: Shoha than my Ukko's Fury.

[Caketime]

Or was my original estimation correct that you're a pet hating troll?

This. He talks like he's an authority on everything in the game when he's just another mook like the rest of us. It's pretty funny how important it is to him to point out how wrong we are about a hypothetical ability update and the far reaching consequences it could maybe, possibly have. You should see him ingame, the dude's a tool 24/7.

[Caketime]

You're confusing vital with irrelevant. Don't use that gear then, even naked it's still over 15% gain in DPS.

I just had to quote this because it has got to be one of the most retarded things anyone has said in a discussion in an attempt to prove their point. Wow. You have wowed me, Sir.

[Karbuncle]

I have to admit getting pretty 'tarded up in here.

[Arcon]

You should see him ingame, the dude's a tool 24/7.

He's seen me ingame, unlike you.


I have to admit getting pretty 'tarded up in here.

Indeed.

[Caketime]

He's seen me ingame, unlike you.

Leviathan's smaller than you think.

[Malthar]

Actually, Arcon's a good guy. But as you can see here, he's no friend of the sheep.

[Insaniac]

I think SE is afraid of making BST any more powerful of a solo job. An easy fix for that would be to make JAs that lower a pets survivability in exchange for DoT increases. That may have been what they were thinking with run wild but they went about it all kinds of wrong. Something that floors the pets evasion and defense in exchange for att acc and haste would be pretty neat and would make BST more attractive for party situations without overpowering them for solo dynamis and such things.

[Caketime]

Actually, Arcon's a good guy. But as you can see here, he's no friend of the sheep.

Gacy was a good guy too, he just didn't like teenage boys.

[Xilk]

The only confirmed effect of run wild is the regen.

haste, attack, and DD tests have returned no results.

testing attack is a royal pain w/ a 5 min timer limitation.

[Raborn]

Instead of asking for an Insane Amount of Haste, Why not ask for something, say, Reasonable? Yes 15% Haste is the average for a Spell, But when think about other Pet jobs, Some way worst off than BST... It seems Absurd. Everyone <3's their job the best, But we need to objectively handle improvements.

SMN and PUP Are the only jobs who's pets can receive haste, SMN Only has 1 Avatar, Garuda, Who can, and PUP only has 2 heads, RDM and WHM. So they're limited in that regard (And I'm 99% certain PUP Heads can't haste themselves, So i could be entirely wrong on PUP)

That said... Spur would be nice if it could be improved a little, But i recommend something way more realistic. Lets stick with the haste idea, But instead of making it 15%, How about 5%, or 10%?

Or, Better yet, Could always have Spur give a Slight Accuracy and Attack Boost. Right now, Spur offers what, Store TP 3 at base, But up to Store TP V with the Gloves?

Spur could also grant.

Accuracy Bonus III~V
Attack Bonus III~V.

This wouldn't be as "Broken" in SE's eyes as 15% Haste for this ability, and would act as a slight Berserk/Aggressor for our pet. Adding a good chunk of Accuracy and Attack on top of the Store TP. Alternatively, It could add the above, as well as a small amount of haste (5%).

Have to think of it in terms of expected reality, Not wishlist numbers. Hope that helps, +1'd anyway.

Let's not forget here that SMNs have unlimited access to pets given they keep an eye on their mp pool, and that smns dont neccesarily rely on keeping a pet out for long periods of time like a pup and bst do. Its more like burst and run. and that pups not only get haste from interchangable gear for pets that most bsts have acess to. They also get haste from the automation attachment that grants them up to 25% haste with 3 wind maneuvers on. has anyone done testing on this yet to see exactly what the pet haste cap might be? if they have can somoene provide a link.

My only qualm with the JA spur is that you have to keep hitting it, I'd rather the Spur effect last 10 minutes or 30 minutes and have a 5 minute recast if possible.
A 5-10% haste doesn't sound too unreasonable, given if its a 5% haste we also get an attack boost based on how long the pet has been out.

[SNK]

FFXI's smaller than you think.

Fixed that for you.~

[Malthar]

Keeping the dream alive.

[Shadowsong]

I agree with everything Arcon says, and its pretty obvious why.
BST is fine, the only thing it cant do is Voidwatch, and why would you want to go BST anyway?
Level useful jobs for the events you wanna do, dont wildly buff the crappy job you wanna use.

[Caketime]

Your face is crappy.

[Malthar]

Ok, enough with the trolling.

And beast-haters need not comment because we know you're opinion is skewed.

[Arcon]

And beast-haters need not comment because we know you're opinion is skewed.

They're no more biased than BST lovers, so by that logic you shouldn't comment either.

[Malthar]

Your logic is non-sequitor, sir. We beastmasters know that our job abilities are lacking so we are asking for a change.
Yes we can!
Yes we can!
Yes we can!

[Aldersyde]

I agree with everything Arcon says, and its pretty obvious why.
BST is fine, the only thing it cant do is Voidwatch, and why would you want to go BST anyway?
Level useful jobs for the events you wanna do, dont wildly buff the crappy job you wanna use.

Except voidwatch isn't the only group content where bst is excluded. It's not exactly wanted in NNI or Legion. It's not wanted for any relevant event. I certainly don't have people beating down my door to join their groups when I hop on bst. In fact, the only time I get tells from anyone is random tools in Abyssea and Dynamis sending tells that say "F*%#ing bsts." And it's really funny, because I'm usually actually in a group doing those events (cuz my friends and ls are cool like that).

I find it funny that the overall impression of bst on these forums is that we're all a bunch of anti-social, always-alone, assholes but when one of us actually asks to be included in group events (imagine that in an MMO!) we're shouted down and told to go back to soloing (which the playerbase seems to have a problem with too, lol).

[Xilk]

Malthar, the way to deal w/ a troll is to not respond to them.
Arcon only wanders over to the bst forums when he wants to troll. Please don't feed him.

IMO, Bst damage is pretty good since we gained Ruinator. What I would most like is to skillchaing w/ pets. This would increase our damage also, but I mostly think it would be fun. I like self-skillchaining.

I think spur is a bit lackluster, but I do find it useful. It is useful to use right away w/ a new pet to build up tp more quickly on a new pet and you want a ready move available quickly.

It is also useful for spamming 1 charge ready moves more frequently, such as proc'ing in dynamis. The limitation is never the charge timer for Single-charge ready moves. I is also useful when you are doing a 2-charge followed by a 1 charge ready move.

Spur is useless when you are following a 3 charge ready command for any reason or a 2 charge ready move with anything other than a 1 charge ready move.

Run Wild is the ability I think should have a very large and noticeable boost to pet DD. (I've tested, it doesn't have it).

[Arcon]

Malthar, the way to deal w/ a troll is to not respond to them.
Arcon only wanders over to the bst forums when he wants to troll. Please don't feed him.

Funny, considering some of what you said was the same I did. Also funny you're calling me the troll when arguing against the guy shouting "Yes we can!" repeatedly for no reason other than wanting to have the last word.

Also, I'm never in the BST forums. These threads happen to come up when I click on "New Threads".

[Malthar]

Arcon, just stop already. So what if I have a guttler and a double attack +11 offhand axe, and awesome gear and wipe the floor with you while I whoop your behind in farming dynamis. So what?
Get over it already.

[Arcon]

Malthar, the way to deal w/ a troll is to not respond to them.
Arcon only wanders over to the bst forums when he wants to troll. Please don't feed him.

I know I responded to this in my previous post already, but Malthar just proved the point I wanted to make with an exceptionally fitting post:

Arcon, just stop already. So what if I have a guttler and a double attack +11 offhand axe, and awesome gear and wipe the floor with you while I whoop your behind in farming dynamis. So what?
Get over it already.

Zero objective information. Zero relation to the topic at hand. Full of unfounded egotism and superiority with the sole aim to offend. An arrogant tone and directly singling out and addressing one individual. This is an archetypical troll post. I honestly don't think I could have done it better myself if I tried.

[Malthar]

A troll trying to accuse me of being a troll. Wow
Sounds like my ex.

[Caketime]

This thread is only still going because Arcon is jealous of BST. It's hilarious, and kind of sad at the same time.

[SNK]

Your logic is non-sequitor, sir. We beastmasters know that our job abilities are lacking so we are asking for a change.
Yes we can!
Yes we can!
Yes we can!

What the hell are you talking about our job abilities are lacking?

[Ezikiel]

let bst have trial of magian scythe access

[Malthar]

Read the original message. It was a request to add 15% haste to spur. Spur as it stands is pretty useless.

[Ezikiel]

oh OK i just REREAD it. now let beast make a good scythe with ToM

[Malthar]

Keeping the dream alive.

[Olor]

Not all jobs will be eligible for every event. except BST isn't eligible for ANY event really.

[Arcon]

except BST isn't eligible for ANY event really.

By any event you mean Odin v2, Neo Nyzul and Legion, I presume? I've seen BST used on pretty much everything else. Sometimes it's even wanted. Oldin without BST was a royal pain back in the day, and it's still useful to soak up 10k Needles. It's king in Dynamis, something I'm sure just slipped your mind, it's used en masse for pet strategies everywhere (like the 95 limit break Taru), and it's one of the best, if not the best general-purpose soloing job, soloing everything from VNMs to Abyssea NMs.

So what you mean is that BST isn't eligible for any group event with a strict time limit and steep damage requirements. In that case I agree. I just don't have a problem with it. Just like most of my jobs are never and will never be used for them. I'm either WAR or SMN. Not even THF, and if a THF is needed at all it's just a TH whore and will probably die anyway because it doesn't get the same support as any other DD.

[Vandheer]

I think what Olor means is that Beastmaster isn't widely accepted in many group events. Beastmaster is indeed a very strong solo job if not the best but it is rare people would be asked to go Beastmaster for group content. Sure every job has its own role and people are encouraged to level many jobs and use what they need to but in a game that prides itself on group orientated content its sad that Beastmaster isn't widely used. In my eyes every job should have something useful to bring to the table in group related content to allow people to actually play the jobs they love.

For events, Beastmaster is def amazing in Dynamus and can solo other events (though without solid drop rates which TH3 used to help but I digress). What we are talking about is group related content. Yes there are strategies that utilize full pet groups but is it to much to ask for beast master to be accepted in other group content?

The same goes for other jobs that suffer a lack of use in events similar to Beastmaster.

All that said I wouldn't want 15% haste on spur to be what Beastmaster would bring to the table.

[SNK]

I think what Olor means is that Beastmaster isn't widely accepted in many group events. Beastmaster is indeed a very strong solo job if not the best but it is rare people would be asked to go Beastmaster for group content. Sure every job has its own role and people are encouraged to level many jobs and use what they need to but in a game that prides itself on group orientated content its sad that Beastmaster isn't widely used. In my eyes every job should have something useful to bring to the table in group related content to allow people to actually play the jobs they love.

For events, Beastmaster is def amazing in Dynamus and can solo other events (though without solid drop rates which TH3 used to help but I digress). What are talking about is group related content. Yes there are strategies that utilize full pet groups but is it to much to ask for beast master to be accepted in other group content?

The same goes for other jobs that suffer a lack of use in events similar to Beastmaster.

All that said I wouldn't want 15% haste on spur to be what Beastmaster would bring to the table.


It really bothers me that you even had to explain this.

[SpankWustler]

I really like the general sentiment of increasing Beastmaster's damage, but I'm not sure if increasing the offense of the pet end is the right way to do it.

I had high hopes that Run Wild would do this instead of adding a potent Regen that allows me to...uh...save money on pet food if I know a pet is only going to be out for a few minutes either way. I'm as tired of Beastmaster's glut of defensive abilities as some guy who has had to watch a level naked level 97 Beastmaster spend an hour of quality time with Sobek. I just feel like my defensive abilities are more than fine and I'd like some offensive abilities.

Beastmaster isn't Paladin. The job doesn't have a dedicated niche. Like all pet jobs, Beastmaster just kind of hangs out and smokes weed behind the dumpster behind the Arby's off Exit 95. So, why not a new offensive ability?

I feel like enhancing the player character would be a more balanced method of adding offense to the job than enhancing the pet further, however. A player-oriented enhancement would be even stronger for group situations where buffs are involved. A player-oriented enhancement would be less epic in solo situations, because a bro would increase his or her risk of accumulating enmity faster than can be dealt with using Snarl as he increased his or her kill speed.

I will back-track and say this, though. Spur adding Store TP when the Ready charge system works the way it does, and Ready commands often contribute relatively little damage when not needed for utility, strikes me as odd, too.

[Leonardus]

I just feel like my defensive abilities are more than fine and I'd like some offensive abilities.

In Abyssea where we have Ducal Guard they are fine. Outside, a war pet is pretty vulnerable on anything that begins to read Decent Challenge (That's with a solid pdt set). You'll have to consume pet food to keep things green.

Some sort of offensive addition to Spur or even Run Wild would be welcomed. I'm not sure I agree with offensively boosting the master. You mentioned buffs, and this is where I feel bst is still getting cheesed. Surely there is some way to give buffs to the pet, even at a reduced rate? You can buff the master, but the problem is that in those situations where we'd desire buffs, the enemy is probably too dangerous to melee in the first place (Barring a group setting, which I guess was your intention, but why would one be on BST if the goal was to pretend your pet doesn't matter?).

Spur is indeed weird, since you're forced to wait on charges, while Run Wild is so underwhelming you'll be sitting there for the 5 minute duration wondering what you just did (And then your pet disappears).

[Caketime]

Run Wild is hard to eyeball, but if you really pay attention you can see the bar ticking up slightly. Spur is dumb, we already have charges and can generate enough TP before the first charge is even ready to use a Ready move, it either needs to be removed and the effect of the Ferine boots changed or the ability itself needs to be changed. At this point I wouldn't care if it made my pet shed butterflies when struck by enemy attacks, at least I would be entertained.