Hardcore players!

[Waldrich]

Stop making all new contents for hardcore/hacker players.

They're 5% of the FFXI's community and Square Enix think they deserve more attention.

Stop listening to Hardcore players opinions, they want this game to have less and less players aka costumers.

We need more players into all servers, and if Square Enix think they have enough players, they can't handle a situation with more players into all servers.

[0nionKn1ght]

And instead they should listen to players making up statistics to back up a point that is in essence, wrong?

[Spiritreaver]

Stop making all new contents for hardcore/hacker players.

They're 5% of the FFXI's community and Square Enix think they deserve more attention.

Stop listening to Hardcore players opinions, they want this game to have less and less players aka costumers.

We need more players into all servers, and if Square Enix think they have enough players, they can't handle a situation with more players into all servers.

It shouldn't be an either/or mindset in terms of how content is developed. There should be content for both extremes AND everything in between. SE just needs to expand its resources(Read: Add more bleedin' Staff) and think out how they add content.

I really don't think there has been any short-fall of good ideas from SE over the years, they have just made some very poor decisions in how they implement them. If they would just stop striving for a near mythical 'Balance' and just focus on more flexibility in functionality, i personally think most of the problems this game sees would not exist in the first place.

SE should be actively listening to ALL of its players and making content that we ALL should be able to readily use and enjoy.

[Luvbunny]

I think the approach they took was releasing new content at higher difficulty and slowly lowering it over time. If you remember last year, Voidwatch was rough, and you need a good LS to beat it, even with all the temp items, it was not a walk in the park battle like how it is now. Barely any shouts, and hardly any people want to join, deathga was common occurrence, and now it is very accessible to all - though some NMs still able to decimate alliance if it's not being handled properly. I am fine with select few get a chance to tackle it first, so they can share strategy and whatnot online. As long as SE will make it very accessible a few months later so that all can tackle it with lower difficulty. This way the hardcore get to gloat first for getting the first dip and the rest of us will laugh at them at the end when we also get our gears :)

[svengalis]

I think the approach they took was releasing new content at higher difficulty and slowly lowering it over time. If you remember last year, Voidwatch was rough, and you need a good LS to beat it, even with all the temp items, it was not a walk in the cake battle like how it is now. Barely any shouts, and hardly any people want to join, deathga was common occurrence, and now it is very accessible to all - though some NMs still able to decimate alliance if it's not being handled properly. I am fine with select few get a chance to tackle it first, so they can share strategy and whatnot online. As long as SE will make it very accessible a few months later so that all can tackle it with lower difficulty. This way the hardcore get to gloat first for getting the first dip and the rest of us will laugh at them at the end when we also get our gears :)

You also have to remember that we just unlocked level 99 also. VW became easier when the level cap went up. SE clearly designed VW for level 99s.

[Luvbunny]

True, but when it was first released, VW was hard for lvl 90, there were a brief resurgence of VW LS or several medium size LS joined hand doing VW events. It was not exactly as popular as it is now, and some LS did 2-3 days a week voidwatch events for clear and whatnot. Even at 95 it was still hard for some of the harder mobs (B-Rex, Kalasutrax, Pil, etc...). It is much easier now - with displacer - but still mildly challenging without it. It's a good idea to do a stagger release so that hardcore groups can get their first try and post findings and tips, and become special snowflakes. Further down the line, the casuals can also have their chances later on. I feel they should do the same with all the neo events and Legion - this way they can please almost everyone without alienating both groups in the process.

And if you take a look back in 2010 - Abyssea was not easy when it was first introduced - it was hard and required at least 6-10 people to clear some of the contents, ex:zone bosses, etc. Over time, it become increasingly easier and very accessible to all. But when it was first introduced it gave us enough content that last over 12-18 months for the majority of players, obviously hardcore players consumed them even faster. At the end of the day, accessibility and creating fun + addictive content should be the first thing in their priority list.

[Reiterpallasch]

It shouldn't be an either/or mindset in terms of how content is developed. There should be content for both extremes AND everything in between.
I wish more people would understand this. It feels like the vast majority of people that post here though seem to think that if there is even ONE piece of content out of their reach, that the system is flawed, unfair, and that hardcore players are ruining the game for them.

[Tamoa]

Stop making all new contents for hardcore/hacker players.

They're 5% of the FFXI's community and Square Enix think they deserve more attention.

Stop listening to Hardcore players opinions, they want this game to have less and less players aka costumers.

We need more players into all servers, and if Square Enix think they have enough players, they can't handle a situation with more players into all servers.


This has to be the dumbest post I've read in a while. What exactly is so "hardcore" these days that the non-hardcore players can't access it? I'd really like an answer to that.

[Zhronne]

This has to be the dumbest post I've read in a while. What exactly is so "hardcore" these days that the non-hardcore players can't access it? I'd really like an answer to that.
Dunno. He probably meant level 99 trials for Relic/Empy weapons, Legion and New Nyzul Isle.

Altough I disagree with Waldrich. Judging by the sheer amount of people with New Nyzul gear lyin around in Jeuno I'd dare to say that FFXI nowadays has quite a big percentage of what he called "hardcore players". Way more than just 5%.

[Tamoa]

Dunno. He probably meant level 99 trials for Relic/Empy weapons, Legion and New Nyzul Isle.


In all honesty I don't see why you have to be hardcore to do either of those things. All you need is determination, and to not suck. Any group of 6 good players can do Neo-Nyzul and be lucky enough to clear F100. Same goes for Legion (18, not 6 - obviously). 99 relic weapons trial - you don't need to be hardcore to do that, again you just need a group of people that don't suck and that are willing to commit to finishing each others weapons/help out. Only thing that can be difficult for the casual player is the 95-99 empyrean trials, simply because it will take a long time to finish. But it's still doable - assuming heavy metal/riftdross or riftcinder supply is there.


Edit: ohi Sechs, didn't notice it was you at first :P

[Zhronne]

Hey Tam ^^

Well I dunno, I already said I don't agree with what Waldrich is trying to say of course, but I think the definition of what is and what isn't "hardcore" can be pretty subjective and change according to the context we're using it.

In nowadays FFXI I'd dare to say those things I mentioned are somehow "hardcore" compared to the rest of the game, and require an amount of dedication, patience, friends, resources and time that is not comparable to most of the rest of the game content FFXI offers to players at the present moment.
Are these things more/less Hardcore than the hardcore things we had 5 years ago?
The answer, imho, depends on what you defined "hardcore" back then.

What was hardcore? Doing a relic back then, probably was "hardcore", or a Mythic of course. What else? If we use what you said as a way for "measuring" what is hardcore and what is not, I'd dare to say there never has been any hardcore thing in FFXI. Which is probably what a really hardcore player would say, most of the things would feel "easy" to him, and he would be reluctant into defining them "hardcore".
Another player who plays 15 hrs a week would probably have a different view on the same thing.
Who is "right"?
Who is "wrong"?
Who deserves being listened by SE?

Imho the answer to all these questions is: "all of them".
They all pay, they all play, they all contribute -in different ways- into making this game good (it would be boring with 100% hardcore gamers or 100% casuals, trust me), they all deserve a certain degree of attention from developers.
And this is exactely what makes their job hard, since it's not easy to make one side happy when they ask a completely opposite thing from the other side.

[Tamoa]

I absolutely agree with everything you say there. I guess back in the day, being hardcore would be when you were in a hnmls and gave out your phone number to the ls to call you when Tiamat popped in the middle of the night - at least in my opinion. But today? What's being hardcore today? Being able to play 10+ hours a day 7 days a week? People do that and still don't do things like aforementioned events/trials for whatever reason(s). I'm actually really curious what the OP views as being hardcore.

[Waldrich]

I absolutely agree with everything you say there. I guess back in the day, being hardcore would be when you were in a hnmls and gave out your phone number to the ls to call you when Tiamat popped in the middle of the night - at least in my opinion. But today? What's being hardcore today? Being able to play 10+ hours a day 7 days a week? People do that and still don't do things like aforementioned events/trials for whatever reason(s). I'm actually really curious what the OP views as being hardcore.

People that doesn't work to pay the game and they'll be casual or semi-casual when they get a job, cause I can't see how a real ppl can play more than 4-5 hours a day, when he needs to work another 8 hours(talking about majority) in the same day, I don't care what those players do while they're playing or w/e or my post suck or w/e is your opinion, I'm just asking to Square Enix to think about it when making "NEW" contents.

[Waldrich]

Hey Tam ^^

Well I dunno, I already said I don't agree with what Waldrich is trying to say of course, but I think the definition of what is and what isn't "hardcore" can be pretty subjective and change according to the context we're using it.

In nowadays FFXI I'd dare to say those things I mentioned are somehow "hardcore" compared to the rest of the game, and require an amount of dedication, patience, friends, resources and time that is not comparable to most of the rest of the game content FFXI offers to players at the present moment.
Are these things more/less Hardcore than the hardcore things we had 5 years ago?
The answer, imho, depends on what you defined "hardcore" back then.

What was hardcore? Doing a relic back then, probably was "hardcore", or a Mythic of course. What else? If we use what you said as a way for "measuring" what is hardcore and what is not, I'd dare to say there never has been any hardcore thing in FFXI. Which is probably what a really hardcore player would say, most of the things would feel "easy" to him, and he would be reluctant into defining them "hardcore".
Another player who plays 15 hrs a week would probably have a different view on the same thing.
Who is "right"?
Who is "wrong"?
Who deserves being listened by SE?

Imho the answer to all these questions is: "all of them".
They all pay, they all play, they all contribute -in different ways- into making this game good (it would be boring with 100% hardcore gamers or 100% casuals, trust me), they all deserve a certain degree of attention from developers.
And this is exactely what makes their job hard, since it's not easy to make one side happy when they ask a completely opposite thing from the other side.

I really really like this post.

[Tamoa]

People that doesn't work to pay the game and they'll be casual or semi-casual when they get a job, cause I can't see how a real ppl can play more than 4-5 hours a day, when he needs to work another 8 hours in the same day, I don't care what those players do while they're playing or w/e or my post suck or w/e is your opinion, I'm just asking to Square Enix to think about it when making "NEW" contents.


"Real people" can still do every event and any trial in this game. If anything, this game has become a lot more "real people"-friendly than it used to be.

[Waldrich]

"Real people" can still do every event and any trial in this game. If anything, this game has become a lot more "real people"-friendly than it used to be.

then do you think we don't need more players?
more one question; since when are you playing?

[Tamoa]

then do you think we don't need more players?
more one question; since when are you playing?


This game is 10 years old, let's face it, it won't draw mass amount of new players, that time has passed.

Started playing FFXI in 2004 - what's that got to do with anything?

[Waldrich]

NOTE: not everyone have a full PT of friends or can plays when all your friends are playing.

Something that the players(with alot of time available) have an advantage is: "time to shout" for unpopular events, I started the game 4 months ago from 0, the game is alot more fair for most of players, but we already can see the game struggling to keep some events alive, things like seal farm PT, nowdays you need to shout for around 1-2 hours or go duo, trio w/o all triggers; Limbus is dead and I'll need to do it "if" I want new limbus upgraded armors, I need to work really 'hard' 'IF' i don't want to rely on luck while doing "new" nyzul isle and I still need to do old nyzul isle, and they share the same assault tag, if you're playing for more time than me, you clearly have an advantage about it, Hardcore player or those ppl who have alot of time to play have a good time doing those stuffs, cause they can do everything(all available events) in only 1 week.

[Waldrich]

This game is 10 years old, let's face it, it won't draw mass amount of new players, that time has passed.

Started playing FFXI in 2004 - what's that got to do with anything?

Well, they can try get more players, but they need to do something that is fun, and not restrict for some jobs or players.
Starting this game nowdays for a total newbie is kinda an invite to quit playing, cause you'll lose more time with old contents than new contents. (Specially talking about Old Nyzul Isle, New Nyzul Isle, Salvage 1.0 and 2.0 [incoming soon]. we're clearly f***d by the assaults tags.)

old contents had bad teleportation/movimentation methods compared to nowdays.

[Tamoa]

There's nothing new in what you're saying though - players with more available time have always had an advantage on those with less available time. And back before Abyssea and level cap increase you pretty much HAD to have a group/ls to do things with, you couldn't solo dynamis, you couldn't solo limbus, you couldn't solo salvage, you couldn't solo sky (unless you were a really good rdm and then only a few select nms), you couldn't solo missions - and you sure as hell couldn't level a job in a few hours. Starting a game as old as FFXI is, as recently as you have, you're going to have to expect the majority of players being ahead of you.

To be blunt, it sounds more like you have a problem with people that have accomplished more than you because they have played this game for a long time. I'm sorry, but that's what it comes across like.

[Waldrich]

There's nothing new in what you're saying though - players with more available time have always had an advantage on those with less available time. And back before Abyssea and level cap increase you pretty much HAD to have a group/ls to do things with, you couldn't solo dynamis, you couldn't solo limbus, you couldn't solo salvage, you couldn't solo sky (unless you were a really good rdm and then only a few select nms), you couldn't solo missions - and you sure as hell couldn't level a job in a few hours. Starting a game as old as FFXI is, as recently as you have, you're going to have to expect the majority of players being ahead of you.

To be blunt, it sounds more like you have a problem with people that have accomplished more than you because they have played this game for a long time. I'm sorry, but that's what it comes across like.

not really, I just want to see more "new" people in the game, then me and whoever is starting the game now can do old contents.

[Luvbunny]

NOTE: not everyone have a full PT of friends or can plays when all your friends are playing.

Something that the players(with alot of time available) have an advantage is: "time to shout" for unpopular events, I started the game 4 months ago from 0, the game is alot more fair for most of players, but we already can see the game struggling to keep some events alive, things like seal farm PT, nowdays you need to shout for around 1-2 hours or go duo, trio w/o all triggers; Limbus is dead and I'll need to do it "if" I want new limbus upgraded armors, I need to work really 'hard' 'IF' i don't want to rely on luck while doing "new" nyzul isle and I still need to do old nyzul isle, and they share the same assault tag.

Ok this is somewhat baffling - you mean you have no LS with at least 1-2 people who also need seal farming? Or you do not have anyone in your friend list who could help you? I understand seal farming shout has been diminished now, but still it is not that hard to do at all, most of the hand, leg, head, feet seal can be soloed as thief if you really have no one helping. A beast/ninja + blm/whm can duo easily and have access to two of the most common yellow trigger. Even a blue/ninja + blm/whm can work as combination for a lot of these NMs and you have access to 3 triggers. Yes this means that you may want to at least level thief, blue, beastmaster, whm and blm. With how easy these days to reach 99, that should not even be a problem. The old limbus can be done with 3-4 people. Find a friend who dual box. I totally understand about assault and nyzul, which can be somewhat of a drag to do - you should try harder on shouting since I guaranteed that you are not the only person in the server with this problem. A lot of casuals and returning players are having the same problems and probably do not know where to begin. For this - making static is the way to go - and it is not any harder making one now than making one in the old days. If anything the majority of the contents are now extremely casual friendly - all you need is 1-2 people, and if you cannot find at least 1-2 or having 1-2 friends, then either dual boxing or play a solo offline game. At the very least there are a good 30% contents that can be soloed as beastmaster.

[Tamoa]

I don't always agree with you Luvbunny, but I certainly agree with your above post.

[Waldrich]

Ok this is somewhat baffling - you mean you have no LS with at least 1-2 people who also need seal farming? Or you do not have anyone in your friend list who could help you? I understand seal farming shout has been diminished now, but still it is not that hard to do at all, most of the hand, leg, head, feet seal can be soloed as thief if you really have no one helping. A beast/ninja + blm/whm can duo easily and have access to two of the most common yellow trigger. Even a blue/ninja + blm/whm can work as combination for a lot of these NMs and you have access to 3 triggers. Yes this means that you may want to at least level thief, blue, beastmaster, whm and blm. With how easy these days to reach 99, that should not even be a problem. The old limbus can be done with 3-4 people. Find a friend who dual box. I totally understand about assault and nyzul, which can be somewhat of a drag to do - you should try harder on shouting since I guaranteed that you are not the only person in the server with this problem. A lot of casuals and returning players are having the same problems and probably do not know where to begin. For this - making static is the way to go - and it is not any harder making one now than making one in the old days. If anything the majority of the contents are now extremely casual friendly - all you need is 1-2 people, and if you cannot find at least 1-2 or having 1-2 friends, then either dual boxing or play a solo offline game. At the very least there are a good 30% contents that can be soloed as beastmaster.

ok, I got it, anyway some of those "way to go" you just told me could be easily avoided by Square Enix, that's what I want them to avoid in the future, when planning an event and keeping its longevity.

Very sorry if my ideas was flawed as hell, I'll admit I was angry when I first made this thread, but this game is a pain in the ass if you don't have some friend to tag along.

I'm sorry Tamoa :) and thanks for answering this "dumb" thread.

/end discussion.

[Tamoa]

ok, I got it, anyway some of those "way to go" you just told me could be easily avoided by Square Enix, that's what I want them to avoid in the future, when planning an event and keeping its longevity.

Very sorry if my ideas was flawed as hell, I'll admit I was angry when I first made this thread, but this game is a pain in the ass if you don't have some friend to tag along.

I'm sorry Tamoa :) and thanks for answering this "dumb" thread.

/end discussion.


Hey, no need to apologise - and either way I'm sorry too, I probably came across as a bit of a bitch in my first post. It's just that sometimes the amount of posts on this forum, asking SE to gimp everything to hell and back (in my eyes), gets really annoying, and I took your OP as being one of those posts.

I understand it can be frustrating being a new player, when the vast majority of the player base is miles ahead of you. And I totally agree that SE needs to make this game as enjoyable as possible for all kinds of players, both hardcore and casuals. But by comparing today's FFXI to pre-abyssea FFXI, I'd say they've come a long way towards succeeding in that. I don't approve of all the changes they've made to the game, by all means. But I do believe it's easier now for a new player than it ever was before.

We all get frustrated with this game at times, for one reason or another. For years my biggest problem was being EU, because finding EU linkshells that successfully did endgame events could be a pain in the backside. So for example, I never did Einherjar until 3 years ago, when I joined an endgame linkshell on Pandemonium which while being mainly NA, still tried to do Einherjar at a time when their EU members could participate. Same with salvage, I didn't actually do salvage until well after the infamous salvage bans in January 2009.

Anyways, I'll stop before this post gets too long. Just don't give up, keep your eyes open for shouts, and you'll get there.

[Waldrich]

Hey, no need to apologise - and either way I'm sorry too, I probably came across as a bit of a bitch in my first post. It's just that sometimes the amount of posts on this forum, asking SE to gimp everything to hell and back (in my eyes), gets really annoying, and I took your OP as being one of those posts.

I understand it can be frustrating being a new player, when the vast majority of the player base is miles ahead of you. And I totally agree that SE needs to make this game as enjoyable as possible for all kinds of players, both hardcore and casuals. But by comparing today's FFXI to pre-abyssea FFXI, I'd say they've come a long way towards succeeding in that. I don't approve of all the changes they've made to the game, by all means. But I do believe it's easier now for a new player than it ever was before.

We all get frustrated with this game at times, for one reason or another. For years my biggest problem was being EU, because finding EU linkshells that successfully did endgame events could be a pain in the backside. So for example, I never did Einherjar until 3 years ago, when I joined an endgame linkshell on Pandemonium which while being mainly NA, still tried to do Einherjar at a time when their EU members could participate. Same with salvage, I didn't actually do salvage until well after the infamous salvage bans in January 2009.

Anyways, I'll stop before this post gets too long. Just don't give up, keep your eyes open for shouts, and you'll get there.

I'm brazilian and my english isn't enough to do proper arguments against your posts XD I'll just send you a tell to "try" to explain you my point of view :)

[Luvbunny]

Waldrich if anything, the game is even more accessible than ever, abyssea content is always accessible from the get go, but back in 2010 when it was first introduced you need a lot more people to even be able to clear some of them. By the way, depending on which mob you are trying to kill for seal farm, some drops KI that is needed to pop zone boss NM or other NMs that drop plus 2 (cirein coin + amhuluk is a good example in misareux, thats at least a good 3 popped NMs, and 2 time based). So even if you manage to get 2 people, that's like at least 9 rounds of kill - also most of the other NMs are not as camped as it was before. Another example is Audumbla, before you need at least 2-3 people, now almost any jobs can solo this, 5-20 mnts depending on well geared you are and if you have empy weapons. The same goes to the tiger NMs in ugly range, it used to be quite challenging, now blue/ninja and blm/whm can easily duo it.

The older contents such as BCNMs still need 3 people for the level capped, and a few can be soloed as beast, at least 1 of the 99Kindred Seals. The rest of the older contents definitely need 2 other people to clear - or 1 person who dual box :)

[Smokenttp]

I'm brazilian and my english isn't enough to do proper arguments against your posts XD I'll just send you a tell to "try" to explain you my point of view :)

waldrich se prescisar de alguma coisa é só pedir po se eu n puder ajudar na hora agente marca um dia pelo menos XD (brazilian too so this is portuguese) (translating : if he needs help he just need to ask even tough i might not be readly avaliable we can try to shedule it for a day.)

anyway i do see your point and well just read what i wrote here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26797-Let-Producer-Matsui-Know-How-He-Should-Catch-Up-on-2-Years%21?p=353272&viewfull=1#post353272 , and hit like i think that is pretty much what im asking around there if this gets enough likes it might get noticied by the devs and they can take into consideration some of it. also about the post there i dont think what i am asking there too overboard (since the 2x exp boost its not as bad as before to go trough low levels) and i understand most of ppl dont wanting to lose the easy button called abyssea (btw as a metter of fact i still have tons of low level jobs, so its not like i abused it and dont want anyone to abuse ever again), but this game is so beatiful that i find pretty much a pity that the players arent experiencing to its full potential. the game overall is alot well thought (altough not perfect it do have some flaws) and i for one would love to see this game reach its peak as close as perfection as possible

[Afania]

People that doesn't work to pay the game and they'll be casual or semi-casual when they get a job, cause I can't see how a real ppl can play more than 4-5 hours a day, when he needs to work another 8 hours(talking about majority) in the same day, I don't care what those players do while they're playing or w/e or my post suck or w/e is your opinion, I'm just asking to Square Enix to think about it when making "NEW" contents.

Although OP's problem has nothing to do with players being hardcore or not, still:

I love how ppl generalize those "hardcore" players as ppl without jobs and play for 8 hours a day. As if you're doing more "hardcore" event, then you have no job.


The difference between players who plays 8 hours a day v.s plays 2~3 hours a day is, ppl who plays 8 hours a day gets stuff faster, that's it. Yes, causal players may not be able to get relic in 1 month, but why not just take your time and do it in 3~4 months instead if you want one?

None of the event in this game requires 8 hours of straight play to do. Legion only takes 30 min a run, count the gathering time that's 1.5hr a run~2.5hr for 2 runs, and shouldn't take more than 3hrs. Dyna only takes 2hr, VW from /shout to pop all takes 2~3hr for VERY unpopular ones. Nyzul takes 30 min a run, 3 tags including 2hr reset/break time can still be done in 3 hr. 3 hours of play time you can do pretty much every event, 4hours of play time a day you can do every event without the risk of having to leave early. You don't NEED more than 4~5hr a day of play time to get every stuff done, unless it's not 4~5hr straight, but rather 1hr at once and play 4 times with constant rl interruption. For those who work for 10 hours a day, and sleep for 8hrs, play for 3hr a day is still quite affordable(although may be a bit tiring)

I understand some ppl have weird work schedule, and have to play on different timezone, making it harder to make VW/legion/Nyzul/Abby pt due to different timezone, but it has nothing to do with how many hours you play.....you can play for 8hrs in JP timezone, and unable to get any English pt for anything, or you can play for 3hr in EST timezone, and do an event with English speaking players really fast.

If you happened to have to do something extremely unpopular(such as seal farm), fat chances are even if you have 8 hr a day of play time, you still can't get ppl. It's probably better to solve the problem by other means, rather than blame all the problem to your play time.

Yes, this game may need friends to get shit done, may need more skill/gears to do harder content such as Legion, but it has nothing to do with your play time at all, more about how good you're at solving the problem, finding friends, organizing a pt and so on. Some of the real hardcore content in this game, doesn't require 8hr of play time a day and you can totally play with a job, I know enough players in this game has a full time job, and still has relic/empy, do "hardcore" content such as legion, enough said.

[scaevola]

Logging into the game every day for multiple hours to work on the same thing for a month or more straight is probably a good working definition of hardcore for my tastes. This would still include Relics/90 Emps; the fact that they are not strictly speaking difficult doesn't mean the dogged pursuit of them over a significant period of time isn't hardcore.

Hardcore or not is really a question of how much of a priority you make the game in your life, not really the difficulty of the content you do (which, of course, you the player have no control over).

[TybudX]

This has to be the dumbest post I've read in a while. What exactly is so "hardcore" these days that the non-hardcore players can't access it? I'd really like an answer to that.

Obviously handing in cruor is so hardcore that 'real players' can't do it, and it is scaring away potential customers.

[Nawesemo]

Lol its an old school game with old school players hazing, and in crowds and everything, the not hardcore aspiring to be hardcore, the desire to be the best.... Nothin wrobg with that, no matter how hard, or easy the make it you will always have the maximizers, and the good enoughers, and thats just the way it is.