Remove 3+ man requirement for lvl 75 content.

[IngyPie]

Pretty much what the title says. Is this really necesarry? There are people that would still want to do some of the 75 content but can't because they can't even rally up 2 other players. SE pretty much killed 75 and since a lot of old content can be solo'd, might as well remove the 3man requirement don't you think?

I understand this is an MMO and you're supposed to play together, but if you can't even get other people to do it then there's no point. SE loves adding content and letting it die, but at least make it still usable.

Of course some changes would have to be made, for instance you wouldn't be able to solo Nyzul Isle the lamp order floors. Not like anyone likes lamp floors so they might as well remove that entirely if you ask me.

[Shadax]

You need better friends.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

They said no.... they meant no.... they wont change there mind, the answer is no.

[Arcon]

You need better friends.

You need an Intelligence Potion.

[MarkovChain]

3 man requirement is necessary or you would see 10x more thread where people complain that the gear is too easy to obtain. As long as it's not 18 or 36 man requirement, it's good. The only objection I would have is doing a mythic, but for this you can build 2 gimps characters that would help you go in assault/salvage/ w/e, that's not exactly what the average player is looking for though.

[Shadax]

You need an Intelligence Potion.

I hope it's because I'm an Elvaan and I could use the INT boost, and not because I think it's perfectly reasonable to require two other people to do what amounts to maybe 10% of the content in this massive multi-player online game.

[Arcon]

I hope it's because I'm an Elvaan and I could use the INT boost, and not because I think it's perfectly reasonable to require two other people to do what amounts to maybe 10% of the content in this massive multi-player online game.

The multiplayer aspect in a game should be implied due to content you can't clear on your own, not through arbitrary restrictions. That's like saying Super Smash Brothers should have a single-player mode that can only be activated with four people playing it, where one guy plays the game and the other three just need to sit there and breathe through their mouths.

[Tile]

3 man requirement is necessary or you would see 10x more thread where people complain that the gear is too easy to obtain. As long as it's not 18 or 36 man requirement, it's good. The only objection I would have is doing a mythic, but for this you can build 2 gimps characters that would help you go in assault/salvage/ w/e, that's not exactly what the average player is looking for though.

We' ve had massive threads in the past mostly about assault missions and Nyzul isle.


We are aware that with the current level of difficulty, it is possible to clear things with less than three people. However, we do not have plans of changing it so that you can solo/duo this content due to the fact that the "cost" of Assault-related content is 3 tags. Therefore, the rewards, and other aspects, are balanced for the "cost" of 3 people or more entering.

thread went on and they said they'd never change it.

and as for someone making 2 other characters and 3 boxing stuff, I've seen that before and it just looked goofy. guy was doing Salvage.

[Demon6324236]

I didn't make 2 other characters for it, but I did/do occasionally use my GF's and my best friend's characters to go into Salvage and use the log out thing so they keep their stuff.

[Mirage]

I think the real reason they won't change it from requiring 3 people is that it would put more load on their pseudo-instances. Consider this: Entering Nyzul with one party of three people fills up one of their instances, three people entering alone fills up three of their instances, and they only have a limited number of them to put people in.

This is a problem because (as I understand this) the game doesn't instance things as neatly as many newer games do, but you actually need a separate section of a huge zone for each instance, and when you've run out of new sections to put a party in, the next party that wants in needs to wait for one of the current parties to finish.

It is unfortunate, but probably not too strange, considering the server software for FF11 was made a very long time ago. Can't blame the devs for making a server before certain technologies were thought of.

If I'm completely wrong about this, feel free to correct me. I won't be mad.

[Xilk]

I think the real reason they won't change it from requiring 3 people is that it would put more load on their pseudo-instances. Consider this: Entering Nyzul with one party of three people fills up one of their instances, three people entering alone fills up three of their instances, and they only have a limited number of them to put people in.

This is a problem because (as I understand this) the game doesn't instance things as neatly as many newer games do, but you actually need a separate section of a huge zone for each instance, and when you've run out of new sections to put a party in, the next party that wants in needs to wait for one of the current parties to finish.

It is unfortunate, but probably not too strange, considering the server software for FF11 was made a very long time ago. Can't blame the devs for making a server before certain technologies were thought of.

If I'm completely wrong about this, feel free to correct me. I won't be mad.

If that were the problem, SE should say that.

If the requirement is 3x tags for the content, then thats fine w/ me. Make it cost a single player 3 tags to enter!

[Demon6324236]

If that were the problem, SE should say that.

If the requirement is 3x tags for the content, then thats fine w/ me. Make it cost a single player 3 tags to enter!

SE never tells us real reasons, balance is the only reason they feel fit to give us.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

If that were the problem, SE should say that.

If the requirement is 3x tags for the content, then thats fine w/ me. Make it cost a single player 3 tags to enter!

There is no problem, they said they made it around 3 people minimum and that's the way it will stay.

Quite frankly I'm glad, another Dynamis, No thanks!

[Demon6324236]

There is no problem, they said they made it around 3 people minimum and that's the way it will stay.

Quite frankly I'm glad, another Dynamis, No thanks!

Maybe if ToAU content was like Dynamis you might actually see more than 10~15 people a server with a Mythic...

[Mirage]

If that were the problem, SE should say that.

If the requirement is 3x tags for the content, then thats fine w/ me. Make it cost a single player 3 tags to enter!
Admitting to that might be a bit awkward for the developers, so maybe they don't want to.

[geekgirl101]

Regurgitating an old topic here rather than starting a new one...

I'm one of those who wants the 3 person limit lifted, and a few other limitations lifted too (only 3 groups can enter limbus at any time? It's a real problem when someone goes and solo's it and locks your party out.) I'll give you my reasons why:

Finding a minimum of 2 other people who are on the same floor or willing to do a few levels below is almost impossible. Those who have gone well past the floor you're on are not going to waste their precious tags trying to help you out, which is severely limiting. I've literally spent months watching or even asking in Jeuno for people to do floor 50, and even though it's only 2 people, with the lacking server populations, lack of new players, people on different floors or not even started ToAU missions, and most people doing Neo Nyzul, I have rarely ever found anyone wanting or willing to join me on floor 50.

When after weeks of constant staring at the shouts and hoping to get a couple of people together, it's a different problem altogether in sticking together every week. My statics fall apart after the first week because of someone not logging in, or they got lazy.

The other problem is down to player performance. I hear of people who can do 20 levels per run. I've yet to see that magic number. I've averaged at 10 levels per run, with the occassional bad group who don't know how to do lamps and resulted in us getting only 5 floors completed or not even getting 5 floors and having to start over again and wasting tags. For a lot of people lamp floors just totally confuses them, even with one person calling the shots there's always someone who hasn't got a clue and either runs from their lamp or keeps pushing it at random.

I finally went down to the level of having 3 accounts to attempt to solo Nyzul. The problem is time is precious, and controlling 3 characters at once is very time consuming. Not only that the damage output from 3 characters isn't enough. I tried with an rdm/whm, thf/dnc and war/dnc, and I only got as far as 4 floors before I had to exit. It just wasn't good enough.

All MMOs go this way, lower level content becomes too trivial for people to care about, especially if it requires a lot of effort. Making lower level content a requirement to do higher level content is just punishment to those who missed the gravy train and are wasting months missing out on stuff they want to do but are locked out because of the requirement, and by the time they finally get the requirement out of the way nobody is interested in even doing the higher level content because they got what they want from it and moved on to something else.

[xiozen]

Regurgitating an old topic here rather than starting a new one...

I'm one of those who wants the 3 person limit lifted, and a few other limitations lifted too (only 3 groups can enter limbus at any time? It's a real problem when someone goes and solo's it and locks your party out.) I'll give you my reasons why:

Finding a minimum of 2 other people who are on the same floor or willing to do a few levels below is almost impossible. Those who have gone well past the floor you're on are not going to waste their precious tags trying to help you out, which is severely limiting. I've literally spent months watching or even asking in Jeuno for people to do floor 50, and even though it's only 2 people, with the lacking server populations, lack of new players, people on different floors or not even started ToAU missions, and most people doing Neo Nyzul, I have rarely ever found anyone wanting or willing to join me on floor 50.

When after weeks of constant staring at the shouts and hoping to get a couple of people together, it's a different problem altogether in sticking together every week. My statics fall apart after the first week because of someone not logging in, or they got lazy.

The other problem is down to player performance. I hear of people who can do 20 levels per run. I've yet to see that magic number. I've averaged at 10 levels per run, with the occassional bad group who don't know how to do lamps and resulted in us getting only 5 floors completed or not even getting 5 floors and having to start over again and wasting tags. For a lot of people lamp floors just totally confuses them, even with one person calling the shots there's always someone who hasn't got a clue and either runs from their lamp or keeps pushing it at random.

I finally went down to the level of having 3 accounts to attempt to solo Nyzul. The problem is time is precious, and controlling 3 characters at once is very time consuming. Not only that the damage output from 3 characters isn't enough. I tried with an rdm/whm, thf/dnc and war/dnc, and I only got as far as 4 floors before I had to exit. It just wasn't good enough.

All MMOs go this way, lower level content becomes too trivial for people to care about, especially if it requires a lot of effort. Making lower level content a requirement to do higher level content is just punishment to those who missed the gravy train and are wasting months missing out on stuff they want to do but are locked out because of the requirement, and by the time they finally get the requirement out of the way nobody is interested in even doing the higher level content because they got what they want from it and moved on to something else.

This.

I can say, I "waited" to do Voidwatch and "just reached Provenance Watcher". I have yet to do the fight or organize a pick-up "/sh in Jeuno" run to fight the dragon but reading what I have personally witnessed by so many is unfortunate. I have to say I am also guilty of seeing the shouts for material in game that I have conquered and have no desire to re-do; even if its to help a new person trying to experience the vast amount of content I've spent the past 10 years enjoying.

So I truly appreciate reading how candid the OP is and how their experience directly relates to what is "currently" going on in game now.... is there a fix? Not necessarily. In my opinion, we are past the point of a player base that is well meshed in (and have progressed past the point-of-no return) to fix it now and suddenly have an influx of new players getting everything they need or want accomplished by simply yelling/shouting for help.

I personally would want to finish Assaults, but its the restriction of constantly trying to find 2 other bodies that keeps me from realizing that dream (statics don't typically work out and forget a reliable pick-up group)... so yea... =/

[Afania]

Lol the reason why SE keeping 3 person as minium is pretty obvious.

They don't want Mythic to be easier to obtain than it is now, and keeping the amount of people with Mythic lower than relic/empy by creating more hassel for anyone wanting to build a Mythic.

If assault/salvage can enter solo, you will see a lot more Mythic build, and it will lose all the "sooooo rare!!!!" value. It's SE's intention to keep Mythic "soooooo rare!!!" weapon.



This.

I can say, I "waited" to do Voidwatch and "just reached Provenance Watcher". I have yet to do the fight or organize a pick-up "/sh in Jeuno" run to fight the dragon but reading what I have personally witnessed by so many is unfortunate. I have to say I am also guilty of seeing the shouts for material in game that I have conquered and have no desire to re-do; even if its to help a new person trying to experience the vast amount of content I've spent the past 10 years enjoying.

So I truly appreciate reading how candid the OP is and how their experience directly relates to what is "currently" going on in game now.... is there a fix? Not necessarily. In my opinion, we are past the point of a player base that is well meshed in (and have progressed past the point-of-no return) to fix it now and suddenly have an influx of new players getting everything they need or want accomplished by simply yelling/shouting for help.

I personally would want to finish Assaults, but its the restriction of constantly trying to find 2 other bodies that keeps me from realizing that dream (statics don't typically work out and forget a reliable pick-up group)... so yea... =/

Just curious, how come statics doesn't work out? It worked for majority of ppl with captain rank/doing Mythic as far as I know of.

[Mirage]

The reason they're keeping the 3 person minimum is pretty obvious, yeah. It's because their server software wouldn't handle tripling the load for the servers that host these zones.

It was never SE's intention to keep mythics "so rare". In fact, their intention was to make them more common than relics, which is absolutely not the case now.

[Demon6324236]

11th Census Weapons page. (http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/11/4.html)
Moving right along, let's take a look at mythic weapons, which—compared with relics—remain extremely rare.
We're quite curious to see what next year's data will look like after the Aht Urhgan revisions that are currently being implemented have had time to play out.
Next, we'd like to examine empyrean weapons, along with the related Magian weapons sharing the same weapon skills. As before, we see adventurers obtaining these items at an astounding rate, though with a drop-off to be seen for weapons above level 95.They know how rare the things are & how bad Emps are with lv95~99 too, and it seems they want the number to go higher after the Aht content is all out, but who knows.

[Xilk]

I think salvage is the only event which would have demand for solo farming.
I think SE will wait for the player responses on Neo-Salvage before they will even consider changing the requirement for old salvage, though I think they should have changed it already.
I might go farm salvage actually. I'm sure I can get other ppl to get me in the door. I can solo it after that, no problem

[Raksha]

Here's a suggestion:

If the "cost" of doing an assault is 3 assault tags, then why not let me enter solo by using 3 of my own assault tags?

I would really like to take my whm mule with me but since since i'm trying to make a compromise between rationality and ultra-retardedness, i'm willing to give a few things up to meet you guys half-way.

My post from a different thread.

[CapriciousOne]

I think the real reason they won't change it from requiring 3 people is that it would put more load on their pseudo-instances. Consider this: Entering Nyzul with one party of three people fills up one of their instances, three people entering alone fills up three of their instances, and they only have a limited number of them to put people in.

This is a problem because (as I understand this) the game doesn't instance things as neatly as many newer games do, but you actually need a separate section of a huge zone for each instance, and when you've run out of new sections to put a party in, the next party that wants in needs to wait for one of the current parties to finish.

It is unfortunate, but probably not too strange, considering the server software for FF11 was made a very long time ago. Can't blame the devs for making a server before certain technologies were thought of.

If I'm completely wrong about this, feel free to correct me. I won't be mad.

My only problem with that is SE always has excuses and I feel we are giving them more of them with this one. Any technology firm worth their weight in gold always tries to find ways to in upgrade, intergrate, modernize their old technology with better more robust existing technology as much as humanly possible. Somehow I just don't get the feeling they even bother too much myself.

[Kari]

If only FFXI had a matchmaking system, so everyone who wanted to do a certain event could be grouped together in a list for easier party forming. [Not necessarily forcing everyone into a party. Game has too many jobs to auto-group.]
/seacom isn't enough. /yell isn't enough.

[deces]

If only FFXI had a matchmaking system, so everyone who wanted to do a certain event could be grouped together in a list for easier party forming. [Not necessarily forcing everyone into a party. Game has too many jobs to auto-group.]
/seacom isn't enough. /yell isn't enough.
That would of been a fantastic idea 6 years ago before all the server crunches in refection of SEs failures.

[Vagrua]

There is no reason that content set at level 75 shouldn't be allowed to be low manned. Salvage and Assault should allow 1-2 people to meet the requirements as that is all that is needed to complete them.

I would have Captain rank by now if it wasn't for those restrictions along with working on a Mythic.

[saevel]

There is no reason that content set at level 75 shouldn't be allowed to be low manned. Salvage and Assault should allow 1-2 people to meet the requirements as that is all that is needed to complete them.

I would have Captain rank by now if it wasn't for those restrictions along with working on a Mythic.

Salvage specifically is done that way due to zone limitations. If SE opened it up to one person going in a day for 100min it would instantly become overcrowded just like Dyna did. You would see a horde of THF's and BST's standing outside the remnants furiously trying over and over again to get a reservation and into the zone. Unlike dyn where the entire zone is shared each person would get their own salvage zone and there simply isn't enough of those to go around. Having a three man requirement prevents it from becoming a daily solo-for-gil-event for EVERYONE on the server like Dyna is now.

The proper answer from SE would be to update their client, F*CK the PS2 and create real dynamic instancing instead of this pseudo reservation slots per zone BS. Then we could all go in and not lock each other out, but until then SE isn't going to reduce the member entry requirements.

[scaevola]

3 man requirement is necessary or you would see 10x more thread where people complain that the gear is too easy to obtain. As long as it's not 18 or 36 man requirement, it's good. The only objection I would have is doing a mythic, but for this you can build 2 gimps characters that would help you go in assault/salvage/ w/e, that's not exactly what the average player is looking for though.

While I understand why people three-box in general, I choose to read this as you suggesting people spend $40 a month to run assault.

Oh pchan!

(srs though the fact that it's most likely impossible to make a mythic without two extra accounts is an Actual Problem and is by itself reason enough to get rid of the restriction)

[Arcon]

Salvage specifically is done that way due to zone limitations. If SE opened it up to one person going in a day for 100min it would instantly become overcrowded just like Dyna did. You would see a horde of THF's and BST's standing outside the remnants furiously trying over and over again to get a reservation and into the zone. Unlike dyn where the entire zone is shared each person would get their own salvage zone and there simply isn't enough of those to go around. Having a three man requirement prevents it from becoming a daily solo-for-gil-event for EVERYONE on the server like Dyna is now.

Right now it's the same thing, only that one other person d/cs at the start. Also, Salvage zones have more than one instance, several groups can be in the same Salvage zone at the same time.

[Llana_Virren]

You're missing the fact that server load is reduced by having a single instance which is shared (Dynamis) versus loading multiple instances of the same zone (Salvage). 1x man enter will increase those zones to the point where you have more glitches and more *itches about it glitching.

[Arcon]

You're missing the fact that server load is reduced by having a single instance which is shared (Dynamis) versus loading multiple instances of the same zone (Salvage). 1x man enter will increase those zones to the point where you have more glitches and more *itches about it glitching.

First of all, server load is almost irrelevant, because none of it compares to even a single VW battle, of which there's multiple going on at the same time, all day long. Server load from such events (especially with only one or two people) is negligible in that context. SE's servers can and do handle a lot worse and have been doing so for over a decade.

Secondly, the "instances" aren't really instances as in other MMORPGs, they're merely different locations on the same physical map.

Thirdly, what kind of glitches could possibly arise from a situation with higher server load or multiple zones? Not that it matters at all, because (as I said before) this is already being done constantly. It's no different to how it is now, only that people won't have to abuse their friends' characters to enter, which is what people are currently doing. I've been 2boxing Salvage for months, as have many people I know, and this restriction isn't stopping them, it's only making it more tedious.

[Vold]

I couldn't care less about about all of ToAU content EXCEPT for assault. That 3 man requirement has also locked me out of captain rank. I had my chance but I chose not to go with it. Needless to say it's laughable to even consider the possibility of finding one or more to do assaults. If there is one thing we all learn in this game, it's that if you're late to the party, your ass is left behind. The only time this has not rung true was end game. If it involved mission progression and or required "tags", goodluck catching up. Before the problem was everyone was saving their tags for Nyzul. The problem now is next to no one cares anymore.

I am 100% certain that dozens of players that need assaults done for captain rank are on my server. The long standing issue is and forever will be caring, schedules, and language barriers. And anyone doing salvage I am certain are already spoken for in assaults(and probably only doing the one in order to do salvage) so that idea is shot dead before it has the chance to bloom.

Ah well. That's dem breaks. Right? The universe will explode if people could solo assaults. It would cause dozens and dozens of assault groups to have to {Standing By.} waiting on soloers because it's such a highly popular event these days. Not.


Another way to solve this problem is to put new gears as assault rewards, if only to help the remaining players that need capt rank get capt rank. Just sayin'.

[MarkovChain]

You have to find only THREE people to farm assaults, come on. We are talking about an era were voidwatch requires 18 and meeble burrows requires 3. Almost everything in the game requires you to find a party to do it, even abyssea. If you are still mad at this you can always buy 3 accounts for the time it will take to finish assaults. But I suspect this to be an excuse to transform old salvage into a farm fest alla dynamis, because honestly, captain rank serves no purpose.

[Demon6324236]

The difference is, those events are rewarding to a lv99 player, where as there is little to no reward for lv99 players to do assaults except to hit captain. Captains main allure is Mythic, and Mythics need Alexandrites, so people are even less likely to help you because by helping you, they are giving themselves more competition later down the line, they would be better off goading 2 friends into helping them with it.

[Afania]

The difference is, those events are rewarding to a lv99 player, where as there is little to no reward for lv99 players to do assaults except to hit captain. Captains main allure is Mythic, and Mythics need Alexandrites, so people are even less likely to help you because by helping you, they are giving themselves more competition later down the line, they would be better off goading 2 friends into helping them with it.

I find it hard to believe that ppl not working on Mythic isn't interested in captain rank, it gives free tele/free undersea entrance, and adds more to achievement and AH point and so on.....

[Demon6324236]

Eh, most people have a ton of Standard from Colibri days if they were there, if not then they have easy methods of getting Standard, either Besieged, or you can farm Mirrors. Thanks to the fast warps to Beastmen areas in Aht now with VW, you can quickly farm Mirrors so long as you know their locations. As for undersea ruins, you can get in for free if you have a Remnants pass as well, which unless you do Salvage as much as you can you should always have 1 with you, meaning you still get in free. I don't disagree with you that they are fine reasons, but with the amount of work to get captain, just to save a bit of gil on the off chance you are in Aht for whatever reason seems kinda insignificant to me, that and I have never seen someone who wants Captain rank, but doesn't want a Mythic.

[detlef]

I just finished burning through the 50 assaults again yesterday. All I did was ask in LS if there was anybody who was interested in Captain rank. Then we got together 2-3 times a week and did every single one. I can see how it would be tough for a person with absolutely no friends or connections, but if you have even a social LS you should be able to find people to go. I'm sorry you can't find someone who is interested in finishing captain rank. Guess your friends don't bother with missions or quests either. I find that most people who are not Captain would like it but just need a push to get it done.

If you want to complain about assaults, the biggest issue by far is assault tag recharge time.

[Mirage]

My problem with finishing captain rank isn't that I can't find two people, but that some of them would prefer to finish nyzul for some of the WSes there first. Because they both use the same ID tags, we can't do both at the same time. It would be easy for us to finish both assaults along with nyzul stuff if the tags were just separate. Because of this, there is a bit of indecisiveness among my friends about who should sacrifice their time first, so often times we don't get anywhere!

[MarkovChain]

, or you can farm Mirrors. Thanks to the fast warps to Beastmen areas in Aht now with VW, you can quickly farm Mirrors so long as you know their locations.

You've clearly never done that. Going past true sight zones ? Opening doors with keys ? 10 minutes weakness from failing etc if you are a thief. The reason captain rank is useless because your average beseiged gives 6k IS which covers transports for years seing as ToAU is dead.

Secondly mythic concerns no people and the least I expect from someone building a mythic is to buy 2 other accounts (otherwise you are too naive) to spam all that requires to be spammed because he'll never get anything done, and that's not only assaults (einherjar, nyzul ..).

[Demon6324236]

I actually have done it, I was camping the NM in Mamook for a pair of Beast Bazubands with my BST character, and used my THF character to run around and farm Mirrors until it popped since I have had a shortage of Standard as of late, and needed my THF nearby for Treasure Hunter because my last 3 kills never dropped them. By the way, congrats on your worthless selfish weapon.

[Vagrua]

Secondly mythic concerns no people and the least I expect from someone building a mythic is to buy 2 other accounts (otherwise you are too naive) to spam all that requires to be spammed because he'll never get anything done, and that's not only assaults (einherjar, nyzul ..).

Paying for 3 accounts a month should not be a necessity. Einherjar and Nyzul Isle I can understand needing more people for, but Assault Missions and Salvage are soloable if you can enter them.

There have been suggestions for consuming 3 tags for 1 player entering. I agree with this.

[MarkovChain]

Welcome to real life, SE should not force you to transfer to 15 servers to collect 30k alex either yet they do it. I mean, I've been playing the game since 2005 and I can tell you that you can't get help for every single step of a relic, a mythic or an empy. SE is tied by their own salvage system ; solo entry means that alex market will become flooded and mythics become soloable ; I doubt they will ever accept you to solo them for 90M gil.