[Sugestion] Skill up system overhaul so easy even Square can do it

[Trisscar]

The current skill up system is an outdated monstrosity that really needs to be overhauled, badly. As it stands whenever you you do any kind of action requiring any kind of skill (be it synth, magic, or combat) you don't get a skill point, instead you have to hope that Square's stupid Random Number Generator deigns to give you a .1 higher skill.

As far as weapon skills go its a pot luck of how quickly skills level, with 2 handed weapons taking considerably longer to skill up than 1 handed skills to level up. Maybe it's because 1 handed weapons can be dual wielded and have considerably less delay. This gives it more chances to roll the dice, and as anyone knows (according to the laws of really big numbers) the more quickly and often you roll the more likely the number you want to come up will come up.

And for some reason ranged weapons take considerably less time than 2 handed weapons do, it took me a night to level Markmenship from level 50-ish to almost level 350.

It is especially a dreadful design choice, particularly on spell skills (they seem to take that much longer to skill). It's high time the entire thing gets overhauled, from the bottom up.

This is an area in FFxiv I believe they got right, that any time you use an ability you get XP towards that next skill level. And it's something that I suggest they implement it here, already. This is what I would request be implemented here as well.


Important note: I am not requesting for the need to skill up weapons/spells/crafts to be removed, nor am I asking for skill ups every swing/cast/craft!!!


Also, for synth, they should remove the fact once you reach a cap on an item you no longer receive skills from it up to x number over the cap. Would make leveling synth that much less stressful.

[FrankReynolds]

I'll take anything that makes magic skill up better. My other account has been cure bombing my monk for like a year now and hasn't capped healing.



Also, for synth, they should remove the fact once you reach a cap on an item you no longer receive skills from it. Would make leveling synth that much less stressful.

Everyone would just spam the cheapest level 1 recipe and never make anything else. Perhaps if they made skill ups (or skill exp) come faster when you craft synths that are near your level, and just gave you less exp for lower tier recipes. That way you would progress either way, but much faster if you do level appropriate recipes.That would also be nice for fixing the spots where you have no recipes near your level that you can get ingredients for.

[Trisscar]

I'll take anything that makes magic skill up better. My other account has been cure bombing my monk for like a year now and hasn't capped healing.
I know how you feel, my healing skill levels up maybe once every three months just about. My Great Axe skill has been stuck fast at almost nearly 300 despite having used it a lot for almost a year now. And don't even get me started on my club skill level. It's absurd.




Everyone would just spam the cheapest level 1 recipe and never make anything else. Perhaps if they made skill ups (or skill exp) come faster when you craft synths that are near your level, and just gave you less exp for lower tier recipes. That way you would progress either way, but much faster if you do level appropriate recipes.That would also be nice for fixing the spots where you have no recipes near your level that you can get ingredients for.

Indeed, that's my thought as well.

[Eric]

Cap healing by spamming Cure on the skeletons in Abyssea - Grauberg.

TBH, the skill-up system is pretty low on my concerns for FFXI right now, but I don't see how your idea would change things. You'd still be spamming a spell for long periods of time until you capped its corresponding skill. If what you want is for skill ups to be quicker, then just ask for that. Changing the way we count our skill ups won't change things if SE decides to set the numbers so that it still takes the same amount of time to skill up.

[Seiowan]

Cap healing by spamming Cure on the skeletons in Abyssea - Grauberg.

TBH, the skill-up system is pretty low on my concerns for FFXI right now, but I don't see how your idea would change things. You'd still be spamming a spell for long periods of time until you capped its corresponding skill. If what you want is for skill ups to be quicker, then just ask for that. Changing the way we count our skill ups won't change things if SE decides to set the numbers so that it still takes the same amount of time to skill up.
The difference is that one is a definite progression while the other is merely a CHANCE at progression. That's a pretty big difference in the grand scheme of things.

As for the crafting thing, it doesn't bother me that you need higher syntheses to improve your skill (it only makes sense that doing easy stuff over and over won't make you an expert at anything), but it does bother me that even syntheses which are greatly lower skill level than you have can still be failed. That, if anything, is the only thing that really needs looking into.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I'll take anything that makes magic skill up better. My other account has been cure bombing my monk for like a year now and hasn't capped healing.

Cure Decent Challenge+ Undead instead..



Also, for synth, they should remove the fact once you reach a cap on an item you no longer receive skills from it. Would make leveling synth that much less stressful.

Except it makes sense, you learn to do stuff via learning, and mastering that said item... The system isn't broken, the rate at which you skill up is.

Sorry, in reality you can't learn to cook Carbonara's, etc..... From boiling an egg, or making beans on toast.

[0nionKn1ght]

Out of everything in FFXI the Skill System is one of the few that just works well enough as it is. I don't think it needs a change.

What does need a change is the availability of important scrolls such as Tier IV nukes and Raise II - Yes im farming them right now, and having found a 5 min repop Yagudo Prior for Aero IV and Tornado, which is very easily soloable, im moderately happy, but my next one is Raise II which means I need to either spam coffers or do BCNM's (ugh). Not so much of a problem for less useful spells, but some of the job defining ones are insanely hard to get hold of. BLM really does get a raw deal as the AM's and the Tier IV's are all super expensive now.

[RAIST]

Character skills level fine...just need to do it right. Some good examples have already been given for healing--the same idea can be applied to targets for the other skills as well. If you've been stuck near 300 skill on an B to A ranked weapon....you simply aren't doing it right. I unlocked fell cleave on dolls and pots doing a magian trial, spamming that page in Sky for tabs on WAR ffs (think they were level 76-78 tops?) . Skilling a weapon is one of the easiest skills to cap now because of the DC tweak. You can hit 95/96 caps just farming the items for the Olde Rarab Tail for final Genkai, then top it off in abyssea--IDK how a WAR's GA can be stuck so low if it's been used on any worthwhile content the last year.

Now, as for crafting---that DEFINATELY needs some tweaking: especially once you get past about 60-70 skill or so. Even if you are crafting under ideal conditions with some crafts, those skillups can be way too far and few between.

[Trisscar]

As for the crafting thing, it doesn't bother me that you need higher syntheses to improve your skill (it only makes sense that doing easy stuff over and over won't make you an expert at anything), but it does bother me that even syntheses which are greatly lower skill level than you have can still be failed. That, if anything, is the only thing that really needs looking into.


"You don’t become a master by doing a thousand things once, you become a master by doing one thing a thousand times."

Also it's like Reynolds suggested, it would have diminishing returns the further over the item level cap you get. Even with it like that you could level your crafting skills just by spamming items that have recipe items you can get from NPC. In the case of fishing, you can get really high level just for questing Lu Shang's without ever leaving Port Sandy.

[svengalis]

Skill up food(saltena works for me) should help with any combat skill ups. You can't find mobs in abyssea to skill up GA on?

[Trisscar]

Skill up food(saltena works for me) should help with any combat skill ups.
Doesn't that stop enhancing skill ups after a certain skill level? Besides that, what about magic skills? Those are still stuck at the stone age, thanks largely to the system.

Enhancing and emfeeblement, for example, aren't exactly easy to level either. Even after spamming enhancements for all they are worth I still have yet to break 200, despite how long I have leveled Paladin and (before you ask, I leveled it way before Aby came out) White Mage for, not to mention My Red Mage sub (again before Aby). What about leveling Ninjutsu? That is a pain in the ass to level no matter how you cut it.

And then there's the flaw in food effects that all foods share, how long those effects last.

You can't find mobs in abyssea to skill up GA on?

Crabs in Misareux, unless you got a better suggestion. And yet skill ups (not just on Great Axe) are slow as fudge.

[Demon6324236]

Mandragoras... The best skill up mob, crabs are ok for alot of jobs they are great, but with Retaliation you can not really beat a MNK mob hitting you 2 times a round for twice the chance of retaliating.

[FrankReynolds]

Cure Decent Challenge+ Undead instead..




Except it makes sense, you learn to do stuff via learning, and mastering that said item... The system isn't broken, the rate at which you skill up is.

Sorry, in reality you can't learn to cook Carbonara's, etc..... From boiling an egg, or making beans on toast.

I guess I'll give the skeles a try. Weird that I never had to do that on my other two chars. Guess I just never worried about it before.

As far as the crafting goes, all the crafts are different. Cooking and egg is much different from making a souffle. But making ebony lumber is exactly the same as making maple lumber. Can't really apply real life to everything. For example (Real life chef here) if you give me a guy who has been cooking eggs short order for a year, I can make him a line cook at a high end restaurant in no time. Give me a guy who has made a few great omelets at home, and odds are he'll quit the restaurant before he even figures out why he sucks at line cooking.

Point being that the guy who made a million rooty-tooty-fresh-and-frooty did in fact pickup some extra skills, even though he doesn't know what garde manger means.

[FrankReynolds]

Doesn't that stop enhancing skill ups after a certain skill level? Besides that, what about magic skills? Those are still stuck at the stone age, thanks largely to the system.

Enhancing and emfeeblement, for example, aren't exactly easy to level either. Even after spamming enhancements for all they are worth I still have yet to break 200, despite how long I have leveled Paladin and (before you ask, I leveled it way before Aby came out) White Mage for, not to mention My Red Mage sub (again before Aby). What about leveling Ninjutsu? That is a pain in the ass to level no matter how you cut it.

And then there's the flaw in food effects that all foods share, how long those effects last.


Crabs in Misareux, unless you got a better suggestion. And yet skill ups (not just on Great Axe) are slow as fudge.

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Category:Skill_Up_Food

this helps (a little). Not sure how well these foods actually work though.

[0nionKn1ght]

I guess I'll give the skeles a try. Weird that I never had to do that on my other two chars. Guess I just never worried about it before.

As far as the crafting goes, all the crafts are different. Cooking and egg is much different from making a souffle. But making ebony lumber is exactly the same as making maple lumber. Can't really apply real life to everything. For example (Real life chef here) if you give me a guy who has been cooking eggs short order for a year, I can make him a line cook at a high end restaurant in no time. Give me a guy who has made a few great omelets at home, and odds are he'll quit the restaurant before he even figures out why he sucks at line cooking.

Point being that the guy who made a million rooty-tooty-fresh-and-frooty did in fact pickup some extra skills, even though he doesn't know what garde manger means.

And how about me, I can boil a bad ass egg in minutes, make a kick ass omelette, and have worked on the QE2 as a Waiter under some of the arsiest chef's on the planet, but I probably couldn't make a souffle :(

[Luvbunny]

Yes for overhaul skill ups system. They did so with counter and parry, let's hope that they do with the rest of the atrocious skill ups system....

[0nionKn1ght]

Yes for overhaul skill ups system. They did so with counter and parry, let's hope that they do with the rest of the atrocious skill ups system....

Again I don't see the problem with it, I hit 310 dagger with very little effort on my part, and it's now skilling up super fast by doing feet seal NM fights for friends. I think you are massively over reacting to a system that on the whole works quite well as it is.

[FrankReynolds]

Again I don't see the problem with it, I hit 310 dagger with very little effort on my part, and it's now skilling up super fast by doing feet seal NM fights for friends. I think you are massively over reacting to a system that on the whole works quite well as it is.

As far as combat skills, I would say 2 hand weapons could use a boost. They tend to skill up considerably slower than 1 hand. Not a huge deal, but then again, its probably just changing one number in the code, so not much to ask either.

[Luvbunny]

Again I don't see the problem with it, I hit 310 dagger with very little effort on my part, and it's now skilling up super fast by doing feet seal NM fights for friends. I think you are massively over reacting to a system that on the whole works quite well as it is.

1 handed weapons are great, 2 handed not so much, magic skills not so much, summoning magic extremely not so much. I am totally fine with the way 1 handed weapon skills up rate, it's perfect, forces you to put some works but not utterly ridiculous amount.

[Demon6324236]

As far as combat skills, I would say 2 hand weapons could use a boost. They tend to skill up considerably slower than 1 hand. Not a huge deal, but then again, its probably just changing one number in the code, so not much to ask either.

Agreed. In honesty I leeched up my NIN, I started at 100 skill, but ended up at 350ish after only 2 hours in a worm party. At the same time I have played WAR for months, both for DDing and for Red procing, not to mention the occasional FC, yet it has gotten up to a high level of 390ish. So I will defiantly agree that 2hand weapons skill very much slower and should be adjusted.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I guess I'll give the skeles a try. Weird that I never had to do that on my other two chars. Guess I just never worried about it before.

As far as the crafting goes, all the crafts are different. Cooking and egg is much different from making a souffle. But making ebony lumber is exactly the same as making maple lumber. Can't really apply real life to everything. For example (Real life chef here) if you give me a guy who has been cooking eggs short order for a year, I can make him a line cook at a high end restaurant in no time. Give me a guy who has made a few great omelets at home, and odds are he'll quit the restaurant before he even figures out why he sucks at line cooking.

Point being that the guy who made a million rooty-tooty-fresh-and-frooty did in fact pickup some extra skills, even though he doesn't know what garde manger means.

No one did really bar career WHM's, it's only when they made the skill useful.

Truth is the guy that made the eggs for a year just has more patience, nothing at all would change between a boiled-egg maker over an omelette other than that.

Though I do agree with the whole log-making case, same for things like au lait's. Still, you don't learn by making the same thing over and over, well accept how to do that.

Could do it faster skill ups if you use random recipes I guess.



Agreed. In honesty I leeched up my NIN, I started at 100 skill, but ended up at 350ish after only 2 hours in a worm party. At the same time I have played WAR for months, both for DDing and for Red procing, not to mention the occasional FC, yet it has gotten up to a high level of 390ish. So I will defiantly agree that 2hand weapons skill very much slower and should be adjusted.

I don't know, it's an odd one. It's not a skill-up mechanic that makes them slower, it's simply the higher delay, that said, there is a much higher gain from skilling up 2-handed when compared to a 1-hander so it's evened out really.

[Trisscar]

Cap healing by spamming Cure on the skeletons in Abyssea - Grauberg.

TBH, the skill-up system is pretty low on my concerns for FFXI right now, but I don't see how your idea would change things. You'd still be spamming a spell for long periods of time until you capped its corresponding skill. If what you want is for skill ups to be quicker, then just ask for that. Changing the way we count our skill ups won't change things if SE decides to set the numbers so that it still takes the same amount of time to skill up.

I'm asking for a more streamlined and sensible skilling up system, but let's assume that tomorrow Square announces that the job leveling system will work just like the skill leveling system to where you might go a dozen dozen kills just to see an one percent experiance towards your next level or you might get experience from three mobs in a row.

I'm sorry but this is a stupid system and it always has been a stupid system, especially where it comes to magic skill ups.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I'm asking for a more streamlined and sensible skilling up system, but let's assume that tomorrow Square announces that the job leveling system will work just like the skill leveling system to where you might go a dozen dozen kills just to see an one percent experiance towards your next level or you might get experience from three mobs in a row.

I'm sorry but this is a stupid system and it always has been a stupid system, especially where it comes to magic skill ups.


And people disagree, isn't life fun.... Want walk in the park easy play a one-player game.

[Luvbunny]

And people disagree, isn't life fun.... Want walk in the park easy play a one-player game.

Trisscar is asking a very sensible request. All SE has to do is to make all other skill ups gaining similar rate like 1 handed weapons, which require that you do WORKS but not at the ridiculous rate that is now. They are able to fixed guard and parry where you gain MUCH FASTER skill ups. This is a game, not life. It should be fun, perhaps not one click done button but at least not a miserable grind.

[Trisscar]

I guess I'll give the skeles a try. Weird that I never had to do that on my other two chars. Guess I just never worried about it before.

As far as the crafting goes, all the crafts are different. Cooking and egg is much different from making a souffle. But making ebony lumber is exactly the same as making maple lumber. Can't really apply real life to everything. For example (Real life chef here) if you give me a guy who has been cooking eggs short order for a year, I can make him a line cook at a high end restaurant in no time. Give me a guy who has made a few great omelets at home, and odds are he'll quit the restaurant before he even figures out why he sucks at line cooking.

Point being that the guy who made a million rooty-tooty-fresh-and-frooty did in fact pickup some extra skills, even though he doesn't know what garde manger means.

I understand that, but such a thing doesn't translate very well into videogames.

[Luvbunny]

As for crafting, did you guys know about rusks and macaroon? Those food give you faster skill ups, HQ results and less chance of failures. They are also rather easy to make and not too pricey.

[Trisscar]

And people disagree, isn't life fun.... Want walk in the park easy play a one-player game.

I'm not asking them to remove the need to level skills, I'm asking them to stream line it.

[Trisscar]

As for crafting, did you guys know about rusks and macaroon? Those food give you faster skill ups, HQ results and less chance of failures. They are also rather easy to make and not too pricey.

Does it work for fishing?

[Luvbunny]

Does it work for fishing?

I am not sure since I do not fish, may want to dig up some threads and experiments? I sure do hope so, unless SE is worried of the resurgence of the fish bots lol.

Also I found out that I get much faster skill ups rate fighting NMs in abyssea, that's how I capped many of my offensive magics. Enhancing, Divine, and Healing is still slow no matter what though. GoV also helps a tons with skilling up once you gained a few levels of the buffs. Warrior is great to level and skill ups many weapons, retaliation FTW.

[Trisscar]

Mandragoras... The best skill up mob, crabs are ok for alot of jobs they are great, but with Retaliation you can not really beat a MNK mob hitting you 2 times a round for twice the chance of retaliating.

Any particular Mandragora?

[Komori]

Altepa [A] works pretty well, as well as Attohwa Chasm.

But you shouldn't have to abuse WAR and Retaliation to level a 2-handed weapon in decent time.

[Trisscar]

Altepa [A] works pretty well, as well as Attohwa Chasm.

But you shouldn't have to abuse WAR and Retaliation to level a 2-handed weapon in decent time.

I agree whole heartedly, thus the reason for this thread. Thanks for the Sugestion though.

[Demon6324236]

Any particular Mandragora?

Well Altepa are probably highly cleaved, so thats out, Attohwa Chasm works if you don't mind gathering them and no one is cleaving them for TEs. The ones out in Misar work but you have to hit each one 1 by 1 making it time taking and annoying once you kill them. And last is Tahrongi but thats really a last ditch effort seeing as their levels are lowest, take what you can get though, Altep is best, Tahrongi is worst, but it should work you up no matter what your doing so long as your below cap for that level.

[Trisscar]

Thank you, demon.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Does it work for fishing?

Nope, fishing is a craft in that it's under crafts and not in any other way.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Trisscar is asking a very sensible request. All SE has to do is to make all other skill ups gaining similar rate like 1 handed weapons, which require that you do WORKS but not at the ridiculous rate that is now. They are able to fixed guard and parry where you gain MUCH FASTER skill ups. This is a game, not life. It should be fun, perhaps not one click done button but at least not a miserable grind.

There is no skill over than perhaps healing or enhancing that is hard to skill up. You can go from 30>99 in Abyssea and skill-up in under a day... That is not hard.

Edit: I did mean to post them in the same post but it didn't work.

[Trisscar]

There is no skill over than perhaps healing or enhancing that is hard to skill up. You can go from 30>99 in Abyssea and skill-up in under a day...

Except for Ninjutsu, Summoning, and pretty much every 2 handed weapon, yeah you're right. There isn't anything that takes people forever to level makes you question your sanity. And nothing is hard even about leveling those skills except for the laughable Random Number Generator pulling a Gandalf and shouting "You shall not skill!".

Never mind the crafting skills, which take forever in a day to skill because same deal.

It's high past time the system was overhauled.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Except for Ninjutsu, Summoning, and pretty much every 2 handed weapon, yeah you're right. There isn't anything that takes people forever to level makes you question your sanity. And nothing is hard even about leveling those skills except for the laughable Random Number Generator pulling a Gandalf and shouting "You shall not skill!".

Never mind the crafting skills, which take forever in a day to skill because same deal.

It's high past time the system was overhauled.

None of those are hard.... Whatever are you on about...

[Salvation]

None of those are hard.... Whatever are you on about...

Translation: "It wasn't difficult for me because I have hours to sit around in game spamming spells / summons or used a script to do it for me."

Why are people so quick to cry when a reasonable request is made for improvements to this game?

[Trisscar]

None of those are hard.... Whatever are you on about...

No, skilling is not particularly hard. I'll grant you that, but the skilling system is too dependent on whether or not the RNG decides you'll get your skill level. Sometimes you'll swing your Great Axe a dozen dozen times and not get .1, sometimes you get .3 skill every swing three swings in a row.

2 handed weapons are all like this, spell skills are even worse (to where you can spam cures for a year and still be no closer to getting cap), crafting skills are teribad as well.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

No, skilling is not particularly hard. I'll grant you that, but the skilling system is too dependent on whether or not the RNG decides you'll get your skill level. Sometimes you'll swing your Great Axe a dozen dozen times and not get .1, sometimes you get .3 skill every swing three swings in a row.

2 handed weapons are all like this, spell skills are even worse (to where you can spam cures for a year and still be no closer to getting cap), crafting skills are teribad as well.

As is most things in this game, at least skilling up makes some sense... How do you propose to do it without a RNG? A skill-up on every hit?


Translation: "It wasn't difficult for me because I have hours to sit around in game spamming spells / summons or used a script to do it for me."

Why are people so quick to cry when a reasonable request is made for improvements to this game?

Translation: "It's easy to cap skill, at low levels they go up ridiculously fast, after that a tiny bit slower, the rest of the way you'll get naturally doing endgame"

Spamming skills, a script ETC will be slow as you're casting on yourself. It really is not even remotely a struggle to level them up.

[Trisscar]

As is most things in this game, at least skilling up makes some sense... How do you propose to do it without a RNG? A skill-up on every hit?

No, gain skill experience every time you hit. Do please learn how to read with comprehension.

Also, how the hell does it make any kind of sense that you can spend months without being able to skill up significantly on magic/combat/craft?

It makes no sense!

[Daniel_Hatcher]

No, gain skill experience every time you hit. Do please learn how to read with comprehension.

Also, how the hell does it make any kind of sense that you can spend months without being able to skill up significantly on magic/combat/craft?

It makes no sense!

At what? 10 minutes of skilling up a week?

Seriously, exaggeration much?!

[Trisscar]

At what? 10 minutes of skilling up a week?

Seriously, exaggeration much?!

Not even remotely, try again.

[Ragmar]

F*** you abyssea. Look what you've done. MAKE EVERYTHING EASIER DO IT NOW (even though you already have I.E skill up foods, allowing skill ups on BPs, lowering the level of mob required to get skill at higher levels, guard/parry update which allows for skill ups even without a proc).

The one valid thing you said however was about skilling up on synths below cap lvl to which I agree If we can get a melee skill up on a mob 24 lvls lower than us why not a synth around 10 lvls lower like within our current rank, even if at a lower rate I don't think that would be that bad. Also there is no magic which takes months to skill. I have all skills capped on all jobs except parry/guard. Yes divine/healing/enhancing did take the longest. Ninjitsu is a joke to cap. Summoning is only slow to cap because you have to wait on BP timers unless you are spamming ele's between BPR's and BPW's. I think summoning should get an adjustment maybe to lock skill up on BP's to .3~.5 instead of .1~.3 without breaking it. I can't wait for the thread asking for /jobs to be ungimped so we can be 99/99.

[Trisscar]

F*** you abyssea. Look what you've done. MAKE EVERYTHING EASIER DO IT NOW.

I can't wait for the thread asking for /jobs to be ungimped so we can be 99/99.

Foul! Slippery slope fallacy! Penalty, kittening (http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/funny-pictures-cat-sees-what-you-did.jpg)!

Damn it, I am so sick and tired of people acting like if making the game more accessible is going to destroy the game.

[FrankReynolds]

And people disagree, isn't life fun.... Want walk in the park easy play a one-player game.

I dunno what everyone else wants, but it could use some adjusting. My WHM mule has no melee skills. I have never attacked anything on him since level 12 maybe. I use him solely as support for my main. He has no other jobs leveled besides whm. The only time he is attacked is when something goes horribly wrong and I have died on my main. He has 275 evasion skill even though he only gets attacked by a mob maybe once a week(?), but still hasn't capped the healing / enfeebling / enhancing skills that he uses every single fight. As a matter of fact, those skills are all right around 275 as well. That's not right.

[FrankReynolds]

F*** you abyssea. Look what you've done. MAKE EVERYTHING EASIER DO IT NOW (even though you already have I.E skill up foods, allowing skill ups on BPs, lowering the level of mob required to get skill at higher levels, guard/parry update which allows for skill ups even without a proc).


What the heck are you going on about? Your still not good. No matter how many times you pop in a thread and yell "Your all gimp! This game is easy! Everyone look at how good I am!", you're still not good. Nobody cares about how good you think you are. Stop crying about how they need to give you a way to prove how good you are. What should we do to get on your level? Be lazy and pay someone to skill up for us? Oh, I mean be efficient and pay someone to skill up for us?

There are obvious imbalances in the rates and methods at / by which certain skills are increased. It's not because people are gimped. This has nothing to do with playing well, or making the game easy. It has to do with making sense. A white mage shouldn't be able to skill up evasion faster than healing magic unless he is soloing with another white mage healing him. Things are broken. A lot of the crap required to skill up crafts gets dumped in the can, because people have no room for it. A lot of crafts are huge gil sinks, which is the exact opposite of what crafting should be. Skill ups could use some love. And crafting in general. You ever look at the AH and see how much stuff is just not on there any more?

[Damane]

skilling up in FFXI is fine in every aspect.

and I wouldnt want to change the crafting skill up especially. If you want to be a crafter, put time and gil into it like every other crafter had to do. period.

[Trisscar]

and I wouldnt want to change the crafting skill up especially. If you want to be a crafter, put time and gil into it like every other crafter had to do. period.

Putting time and Gil into it is well and good but the RNG is a significant road block to skilling anything, especially the crafts.

Last year I got it into my head to go skill a craft and take it to level 50, at least. 6 months latter and it broke level 12. This is wasn't because I or anyone else was doing anything wrong. On the contrary I read the guides, studied the recipes, even gotten advice from none other than Ctownwoody. But I'd get a .1 one craft, nothing else for 9 crafts, and then 3 .2 in a row and nothing else for almost a whole week. It got to a point that leveling the craft was getting more costly than I could afford after it had wiped out all the Gil I already had.

It needs to be overhauled.

[Ragmar]

What the heck are you going on about? Your still not good. No matter how many times you pop in a thread and yell "Your all gimp! This game is easy! Everyone look at how good I am!", you're still not good. Nobody cares about how good you think you are. Stop crying about how they need to give you a way to prove how good you are. What should we do to get on your level? Be lazy and pay someone to skill up for us? Oh, I mean be efficient and pay someone to skill up for us?

There are obvious imbalances in the rates and methods at / by which certain skills are increased. It's not because people are gimped. This has nothing to do with playing well, or making the game easy. It has to do with making sense. A white mage shouldn't be able to skill up evasion faster than healing magic unless he is soloing with another white mage healing him. Things are broken. A lot of the crap required to skill up crafts gets dumped in the can, because people have no room for it. A lot of crafts are huge gil sinks, which is the exact opposite of what crafting should be. Skill ups could use some love. And crafting in general. You ever look at the AH and see how much stuff is just not on there any more?

Umad bro. You and LB should hang out. The stuff thats not on the AH anymore is because you go 30-99 in abyssea naked now. There is no market for mid level gear to afk/leech in. It's not a crafting issue its a leveling issue. It's absolutely not a crafting skill up issue. There is plenty of lvl 90+ gear on the AH because thats all half the player base ever wears anymore. Just go play on the test server only if you want everything handed to you. Stop trying to dumb down the game. Also stop being jelly it's just a game kid.

[Ragmar]

Putting time and Gil into it is well and good but the RNG is a significant road block to skilling anything, especially the crafts.

Last year I got it into my head to go skill a craft and take it to level 50, at least. 6 months latter and it broke level 12. This is wasn't because I or anyone else was doing anything wrong. On the contrary I read the guides, studied the recipes, even gotten advice from none other than Ctownwoody. But I'd get a .1 one craft, nothing else for 9 crafts, and then 3 .2 in a row and nothing else for almost a whole week. It got to a point that leveling the craft was getting more costly than I could afford after it had wiped out all the Gil I already had.

It needs to be overhauled.

L O L ! ! ! Yup that right here sums it all up. You frank and LB right up there with 3 hit zanshin, haste taking time to proc, and CHR giving enmity.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Not even remotely, try again.

Any longer and it wouldn't take you months to skill up, a week at max.


Putting time and Gil into it is well and good but the RNG is a significant road block to skilling anything, especially the crafts.

Last year I got it into my head to go skill a craft and take it to level 50, at least. 6 months latter and it broke level 12. This is wasn't because I or anyone else was doing anything wrong. On the contrary I read the guides, studied the recipes, even gotten advice from none other than Ctownwoody. But I'd get a .1 one craft, nothing else for 9 crafts, and then 3 .2 in a row and nothing else for almost a whole week. It got to a point that leveling the craft was getting more costly than I could afford after it had wiped out all the Gil I already had.

It needs to be overhauled.

I've levelled almost all my crafts to ~70 with no food. There is no way in hell that it took you 6 months to get to level 12.

30 minutes, perhaps... If you were talking past 60~110 then I'd say: "Yeah, okay" not 1~12

RNG for 1~60 is like:

if (RNG <= 5) {
dont_skillup();
} else {
do_skillup();
}

[Trisscar]

Well at least the two of you are fairly consistent with failing to read for comprihension. Keep up the good work, you're doing a fantastic job representing the worst of the community.

[Trisscar]

Umad bro. You and LB should hang out. The stuff thats not on the AH anymore is because you go 30-99 in abyssea naked now. There is no market for mid level gear to afk/leech in.

Don't know about anyone else, but I don't usually go leech in Aby myself. And since I also don't throw anything away, I still have a bunch of mid level gear cluttering my inventory.

[RAIST]

Well at least the two of you are fairly consistent with failing to read for comprihension. Keep up the good work, you're doing a fantastic job representing the worst of the community.

Funny....thought they nailed it right on the head, they are reiterating what you said, like this:


Last year I got it into my head to go skill a craft and take it to level 50, at least. 6 months latter and it broke level 12.
No other way to comprehend that statement.....you started a craft, and 6 months later you finally broke level 12. Either you weren't crafting regularly, or you were choosing the wrong target/conditions to craft in when you did go to craft.

Case in point, recently I took Bone up 5 levels in one afternoon making/desynthing Horn rings (32-37 cap) off mats I got working on a trial, then fired off some horn arrowheads to ding 38 and took my rank test. That was 6 levels after one weekend of farming a lottery pop Ram NM, and one afternoon of crafting to get 6 levels. Alchemy, cooking, Woodworking, goldsmith, smith, bone, even synergy barely took me a weekend at worst to get past my first rankup---and I generally don't buy a lot of mats off the AH for my crafting, I generally farm/vendor buy or use mats I get doing normal stuff (unless that farming is just too freaking tedious/cheaper on AH than from Vendor, then I'll buy it on AH).

Now, post 60~70, Crafting skilllups become a problem....but up to that point, they can be fairly steady for the most part.

And no, skilling magics/combat skills is not hard if you are doing it right--I capped 99 H2H on MNK right after I dinged 99 on it ffs--the same session in abyssea, and Evasion on it the next day. The only magic skills I don't have capped across 3 mages (BLM, WHM, SMN) are divine and healing (but they are both at 331)--and that's only because I almost never use WHM for anything more than a naked run to raise/tele someone, or if a group needs it for proc'ing something. All weapons are capped across 10 jobs (7 melee, 3 mage: BLM, WHM, SMN, SAM, MNK, WAR, NIN, DRG, BST, DRK) and I capped my skills for the most part solo. I had Parry up to 78 caps prior to them removing the proc requirement to skill parry and just finished taking it to 99 cap yesterday goofing off to bank time for LS mates (was at 97 cap), will start working on my 66-68-ish guard next Saturday. Skilling combat/magic is not hard if you do it right. And for the record, aside from experimentation with 3 foods early on, 1 stack each....I don't use skillup foods to skillup.

TLDR: From what has been described (12 months stuck around 300 skill on A ranked weapon and 6 months to level a craft to 12)----you simply "notdoingitright".

[Trisscar]

Updated original post to include some suggestions from other posters.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Well at least the two of you are fairly consistent with failing to read for comprihension. Keep up the good work, you're doing a fantastic job representing the worst of the community.

I think you're saying it in your head, and typing something different..... There is no possible way to misinterpret that it took you six-months to go from 1~12 in a craft.

[Trisscar]

I think you're saying it in your head, and typing something different..... There is no possible way to misinterpret that it took you six-months to go from 1~12 in a craft.

Try to underderstand this than: What really limits how quickly/often a person levels a skill is the RNG. Exactly because of the laws of really big numbers 1 handed H2H weapons are really quick to level because the more quickly you are able to roll the dice in succession the more often and more likely the numbers you want will come up.

There is literally nothing else you can do so quickly and often as swing a sword or punch an opponent. Because of this many skills level extremely slow in comparison. Understood?

If they were to change the skill up system to allow for skill experience to build up on every action the only reason a person might have for not having skills in anything (including crafting) is pure laziness.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

[condescending Wonka] Oh? You understood understood that much? How good for you.[/condenscending Wonka]

Try to under this than: What really limits how quickly/often a person levels a skill is the RNG. Exactly because of the laws of really big numbers 1 handed H2H weapons are really quick to level because the more quickly you are able to roll the dice in succession the more often and more likely the numbers you want will come up.

If they were to change the skill up system to allow for skill experience to build up on every action the only reason a person might have for not having skills in anything (including crafting) is pure laziness.

lol, good way to get your point across.

[FrankReynolds]

Umad bro. You and LB should hang out. The stuff thats not on the AH anymore is because you go 30-99 in abyssea naked now. There is no market for mid level gear to afk/leech in. It's not a crafting issue its a leveling issue. It's absolutely not a crafting skill up issue. There is plenty of lvl 90+ gear on the AH because thats all half the player base ever wears anymore. Just go play on the test server only if you want everything handed to you. Stop trying to dumb down the game. Also stop being jelly it's just a game kid.

There were major deficiencies in ingredients before abyssea. I get that your mad about it, but you can't blame everything on abyssea. Try and tell me that no one is making level 35 + 5 agility foods because of abyssea, so I can laugh at you.

And for the record: people who say things like you mad and jelly are generally not smart enough to converse on an adult level. Saying things like that just comes off as childish. Perhaps you should change your FFXIAH listing from "WoC looking for a few mature people to build empy/AF3+2/Relic" if your going to act like a 2 year old.

[Trisscar]

lol, good way to get your point across.

When driving in a nail, use a hammer. When driving in your point with the dilbrately obtuse, use a hammer.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

When driving in a nail, use a hammer. When driving in your point with the dilidrately obtuse, use a hammer.

Oh, is that what it is? You have a concussion?!

Curious: What's dilidrately never heard of it?

[Trisscar]

Oh, is that what it is? You have a concussion?!

That's really rich coming from someone that completely failed to see the point for seven pages, despite how many times it's been shown to them. The fact of the matter is that the skill up system is not fine as it is and could use some attention. I've provided a reasonable suggestion to that and all you seem capable of contributing is "OMG easy mode, start at cap! Herpderp!"


Curious: What's dilidrately never heard of it?

A typo, courtesy of my iPad. And the moral is, don't use touch screen when your hands are wet.

[Luvbunny]

Umad bro. You and LB should hang out. The stuff thats not on the AH anymore is because you go 30-99 in abyssea naked now. There is no market for mid level gear to afk/leech in. It's not a crafting issue its a leveling issue. It's absolutely not a crafting skill up issue. There is plenty of lvl 90+ gear on the AH because thats all half the player base ever wears anymore. Just go play on the test server only if you want everything handed to you. Stop trying to dumb down the game. Also stop being jelly it's just a game kid.

Aww Princess Snowflake even remember me on this other thread, still trying to nurture your sore feeling? Go back preening in Port Jeuno and boasting all your imaginary accomplishments - you are like a 3 years old who throw a tantrum just because someone else has different opinions than you and think very little of your so called "elite status". Good thing SE is pretty much destroying any "old school accomplishment" feel and liberate the game into easy mode button for everyone and their gimped cousins to play.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

That's really rich coming from someone that completely failed to see the point for seven pages, despite how many times it's been shown to them. The fact of the matter is that the skill up system is not fine as it is and could use some attention. I've provided a reasonable suggestion to that and all you seem capable of contributing is "OMG easy mode, start at cap! Herpderp!"



A typo, courtesy of my iPad. And the moral is, don't use touch screen when your hands are wet.

I saw your point, but I disagree with it. I wont say I agree with you if I do not. I will also criticise absurdly stupid posts.

Ah, fair enough.

[Luvbunny]

Seriously all SE has to do is to fix the 2 handed weapon skills up to be similar to 1 handed and the newly revised guard, parry etc.... This way people will be happy and everyone still have to put some works on getting there, just less frustrating doing it. Crafting is not the greatest thing here in FFXI but they should definitely let us get random skill ups at every attempt using the right recipe for the ranks/level so that we can still skill ups but at a much steadier pace - even if it is 0.1-0.2 every attempt randomly.

[Slaxx]

I recently got it into my head to level crafts. I spent 51 days at it. In that time I took all 8 crafts from 0 - 70. If it took you six months to get to level 12 you failed in every way possible. I was averaging over 10 levels a day in that span, much of it until the end was 20 levels. The only thing that slowed me down was availability of materials (and crafting delay and guild purchase delay - I finished just before they were implemented).

Admittedly the ONLY thing I did for that period was craft and I don't expect that level of dedication from everyone but if you are complaining about only getting 12 levels in 6 months you are either grossly exaggerating or you were performing one craft per day.

Or just plain lying.

[Sarick]

On top of the current skill up system, If you fail to get a skill up after 1/10th your skill amount in attempts it automatically hands you 0.1 on actions that can give skill ups.

You have 400 skill and don't get a skill up for 40 times you'll get a skill up.
For crafting this would mean you'll never need make more then 10 items to get at least 0.1

The rate of this could be increased to 1/15th 1/20th or 1/25th percent of current skill if it's still to slow.


BAMM fixed. No more random issues that never give a skill up you'll always get a chance even if you got bad luck.

[Sarick]

I can't wait for the thread asking for /jobs to be ungimped so we can be 99/99.


:mad:NO NO NO NO NO NO NO..:mad:

:rolleyes:We want Main/Sub/Support:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:PLD99/WHM49/WAR24:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:WHM99/SCH49/BLM24:rolleyes:

[Demon6324236]

On top of the current skill up system, If you fail to get a skill up after 1/10th your skill amount in attempts it automatically hands you 0.1 on actions that can give skill ups.

You have 400 skill and don't get a skill up for 40 times you'll get a skill up.
For crafting this would mean you'll never need make more then 10 items to get at least 0.1

The rate of this could be increased to 1/15th 1/20th or 1/25th percent of current skill if it's still to slow.


BAMM fixed. No more random issues that never give a skill up you'll always get a chance even if you got bad luck.

Sounds like a good idea, has a nice bit of slowing down it later levels still as well, which should keep it "balanced".

[Trisscar]

I will also criticise absurdly stupid posts.


When I found out that skill up will get a boost, I was happy. I was going to take another shot at skilling up a craft, something unrelated to battle content and less stressful.

And then I found out it was only going to be applied to Parry and Gaurd.

So tell me, how is it absurdly stupid to suggest that they apply it to all other skills that take long amounts of time to do?

[Demon6324236]

When I found out that skill up will get a boost, I was happy. I was going to take another shot at skilling up a craft, something unrelated to battle content and less stressful.

And then I found out it was only going to be applied to Parry and Gaurd.

So tell me, how is it absurdly stupid to suggest that they apply it to all other skills that take long amounts of time to do?

If just comparing Parry/Guard to others then you are wrong, otherwise I agree it should be heightened for some others. Parry/Guard skill rates were broken because it only skilled on the small rate you would actually parry or block, which made the skill up rate so small it took 10 times longer than any other skill to rise, not to mention that they are not to useful in the 1st place except for a few select jobs. That being said I think 2-hand weapons should be sped up on how they skill to balance out with 1-hand weapons.

[Trisscar]

If just comparing Parry/Guard to others then you are wrong, otherwise I agree it should be heightened for some others. Parry/Guard skill rates were broken because it only skilled on the small rate you would actually parry or block, which made the skill up rate so small it took 10 times longer than any other skill to rise, not to mention that they are not to useful in the 1st place except for a few select jobs. That being said I think 2-hand weapons should be sped up on how they skill to balance out with 1-hand weapons.

Maybe. I know they should've added Shield skill ups to that as well because it, like Parry and Guard, isn't something that happens 100% of the time (although, as far as I can tell, it's rate is higher than the other two).

You also forgot spells and crafts. Even if they don't go the route I suggest, they should enhance the skill up rates until they are on an even keel with 1 handed or H2H weapons.

[Demon6324236]

I only said 1 for example, I agree spells should be heightened, crafts are kinda ok, they could be improved and I would not complain however they have always been a "spend a million to make 10 million" kind of idea, you spend alot of money to skill it, but in the end are able to make alot more from it. Shield I disagree, honestly I find it easy and fairly painless, so I wouldn't really change it, then again I still say, I wouldn't object, but its not something I actually see in need either.

[RAIST]

Try to underderstand this than: What really limits how quickly/often a person levels a skill is the RNG. Exactly because of the laws of really big numbers 1 handed H2H weapons are really quick to level because the more quickly you are able to roll the dice in succession the more often and more likely the numbers you want will come up.

Looks like more evidence you need to adjust your approach to how you are skilling up. There are a host of things that can be done to dramatically adjust how quickly you are swinging your 2H weapons, or otherwise increase how often you are able to fire off multi-hit WS to dramatically increase how often you roll the dice--thus dramatically increasing your skillup rate. It is actually possible to wield a GA with the equivalent of around 150 delay or less.

[Demon6324236]

Looks like more evidence you need to adjust your approach to how you are skilling up. There are a host of things that can be done to dramatically adjust how quickly you are swinging your 2H weapons, or otherwise increase how often you are able to fire off multi-hit WS to dramatically increase how often you roll the dice--thus dramatically increasing your skillup rate. It is actually possible to wield a GA with the equivalent of around 150 delay or less.

Possible, yes, but not exactly easy in a skilling up situation. Nothing we can do currently will change the fact a NIN Dual Wielding Katanas with good haste gear vs a WAR using a GA with good haste gear, the NIN will hit much faster and many more times.

Not the best example, but its true, and being that most 1-hand jobs have DW I figured I would use it as an example, in either case, delay will be naturally lower for a 1-hand job, meaning much faster hits, and faster skill-ups in the end, where as 2-hand jobs skill slowly unless (and even still in come cases) you stack Double/Triple Attack along with Haste and perhaps even OAT. I do this with 2-hand weapons after a certain point (when WAR/RDM can no longer solo Retaliation skill-up off mobs in CapeT) and even with massive stacking of DA/TA/Haste I have never come close to the speed I capped my Sword, Dagger, and Katana, for PLD, THF, & NIN.

[RAIST]

Possible, yes, but not exactly easy in a skilling up situation. Nothing we can do currently will change the fact a NIN Dual Wielding Katanas with good haste gear vs a WAR using a GA with good haste gear, the NIN will hit much faster and many more times.

Not the best example, but its true, and being that most 1-hand jobs have DW I figured I would use it as an example, in either case, delay will be naturally lower for a 1-hand job, meaning much faster hits, and faster skill-ups in the end, where as 2-hand jobs skill slowly unless (and even still in come cases) you stack Double/Triple Attack along with Haste and perhaps even OAT. I do this with 2-hand weapons after a certain point (when WAR/RDM can no longer solo Retaliation skill-up off mobs in CapeT) and even with massive stacking of DA/TA/Haste I have never come close to the speed I capped my Sword, Dagger, and Katana, for PLD, THF, & NIN.

|True Strike|, but it is still not as broken as Triss is making it out to be. The loss of the ability to Dual Wield does make a difference, but you can mitigate a decent portion of it--not too mention WAR's own traits/abilities that come into play as well. Have to keep in mind that with DW and H2H, you are swinging twice per round vs. 1, which by nature makes it a completely different animal--comparing a 1H weapon and a shield, you are on a more level playing field for comparing them. Regardless, pulling in a BRD to assist you, or even just your NPC or a friend that can cast haste can make a difference (or you could get haste from the books for that matter) then /DNC or /SAM to speed things a little more....etc.

Heck even just AF3+1, a haste belt, and choice of subjob that gives you an extra haste option provides a nice reduction while soloing even, especially if you go to Abysea and load Atmas to facilitate faster swings or more effiicient TP use. Just going WAR/DNC with Empy +1, Swift Belt, and Brutal Earring gets a Telamon (482 delay) down to an effective delay of about 330 if you keep haste samba up--throw in Haste from a friend and you could easily drop it to about 275 or so, if your friend is a BRD instead you can get it below 250 with ease. Bare in mind a 99 NIN with readily obtainable gear (like AF3+1 or maybe a mix of +1/+2/Aurore pieces, good haste belt, etc) can be running a delay in the 200-230 range before you factor in any Subjob options or special gear to reduce delay, enhance DA, or maximize Haste. Couple all that with being able to spam Raging Rush like a NIN would Jin (or maybe Ku or Shun) in Abyssea...and you are not so lacking in your opportunities for skillups.

Aside from NIN, SAM, and MNK (who's weapons capped steadily on their own, MNK capping as I leveled and NIN & SAM staying close to caps), I did Staff 100% on SMN and some of club on WHM first (while working on trials for them). Then I leveled all manner of weapons to caps as WAR/DNC first (for the haste samba, free cures, Jig, etc.) in Besieged and various Fov/GoV/Abyssea zones with atmas/prowess/book buffs to increase my efficiency, then flipped to the jobs that had the higher ranks in skill....and it was a BREEZE--even on SMN, meleeing along with my avatars in Beseiged, crabs in Grauberg(A), and later Dahlmels in Altepa(A) to hit the 99 Caps.

The trick is in watching how the skill rate goes when you try different gear/job/buffs against your targets and such, and adjusting accordingly. Shouldn't take long to realize things aren't working as you had hoped and you need to try something different. That evil Wiki can go a long way towards helping you choose better targets if you look up the Combat Skills (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Combat_Skills)chart to find the level range you need for you current weapon's skill level.

[Ragmar]

Try to underderstand this than: What really limits how quickly/often a person levels a skill is the RNG. Exactly because of the laws of really big numbers 1 handed H2H weapons are really quick to level because the more quickly you are able to roll the dice in succession the more often and more likely the numbers you want will come up.

There is literally nothing else you can do so quickly and often as swing a sword or punch an opponent. Because of this many skills level extremely slow in comparison. Understood?

If they were to change the skill up system to allow for skill experience to build up on every action the only reason a person might have for not having skills in anything (including crafting) is pure laziness.

Skill exp doesnt fix this as you would still cap faster on lower delay weapons since you would still attack faster and gain the skill faster with a lower delay. If it takes 100 attacks to get 1 skill lvl you are still going to complete those 100 attacks faster with a lower delay. This does nothing to bridge the gap between the two.

[Ragmar]

There were major deficiencies in ingredients before abyssea. I get that your mad about it, but you can't blame everything on abyssea. Try and tell me that no one is making level 35 + 5 agility foods because of abyssea, so I can laugh at you.

And for the record: people who say things like you mad and jelly are generally not smart enough to converse on an adult level. Saying things like that just comes off as childish. Perhaps you should change your FFXIAH listing from "WoC looking for a few mature people to build empy/AF3+2/Relic" if your going to act like a 2 year old.

You come in here trying to act like you know me saying I'm not good over and over getting all ethug with it. Yeah Umad bro is exactly what comes to mind. I resorted to your level thats all.

[Sarick]

Possible, yes, but not exactly easy in a skilling up situation. Nothing we can do currently will change the fact a NIN Dual Wielding Katanas with good haste gear vs a WAR using a GA with good haste gear, the NIN will hit much faster and many more times.

Not the best example, but its true, and being that most 1-hand jobs have DW I figured I would use it as an example, in either case, delay will be naturally lower for a 1-hand job, meaning much faster hits, and faster skill-ups in the end, where as 2-hand jobs skill slowly unless (and even still in come cases) you stack Double/Triple Attack along with Haste and perhaps even OAT. I do this with 2-hand weapons after a certain point (when WAR/RDM can no longer solo Retaliation skill-up off mobs in CapeT) and even with massive stacking of DA/TA/Haste I have never come close to the speed I capped my Sword, Dagger, and Katana, for PLD, THF, & NIN.

How to fix this?

2 handed weapon strikes count twice. << fixed.

One skill check for each hand.

[Sarick]

When I found out that skill up will get a boost, I was happy. I was going to take another shot at skilling up a craft, something unrelated to battle content and less stressful.

And then I found out it was only going to be applied to Parry and Gaurd.

So tell me, how is it absurdly stupid to suggest that they apply it to all other skills that take long amounts of time to do?

Trisscar I enjoy your post most of the time but I need to try and let you down easy. Of all the skills I ever tried to level guard and parry where the hardest most daunting skills I ever capped. I capped guard on monk way before the level 75 cap increase.

With that said the 6 months I spent on it several hours a day just letting stuff beat on me for 8 hours made me sick. I can assure you guard was never an easy skill to cap. Before the change I had it at 320 skill at 99 from when it was capped at 269. You see even though I tanked thousands of mobs from 76 to 99 I still rarely saw a 0.1.

Nothing, healing, enhancing, shield, evasion, sword or others compared to this slow rate. The fact is I had every mage magic capped within a few days of every cap update. These where a joke compared to guard and shouldn't even be classified in the same cosmic scale.

Please don't underwhelm the guard and parry updates by comparing them to such easy skill paths. By doing so you're insulting everyone who busted their asses getting those hard earned skills. The guard/parry change was needed in ways that people who never invested time on them can't fathom.

To make it simple guard and parry skills where extremely broken to skill up and this change more or less balanced them with other combat based skills.

[Trisscar]

Skill exp doesnt fix this as you would still cap faster on lower delay weapons since you would still attack faster and gain the skill faster with a lower delay. If it takes 100 attacks to get 1 skill lvl you are still going to complete those 100 attacks faster with a lower delay. This does nothing to bridge the gap between the two.

Good point. Perhaps the better fix would be to increase the experience gain so that 2 handed weapons and company gain skills as fast as 1 handed weapons do. Even if it's just that I would be satisfied.

See? There can be middle ground.

[FrankReynolds]

You come in here trying to act like you know me saying I'm not good over and over getting all ethug with it. Yeah Umad bro is exactly what comes to mind. I resorted to your level thats all.

44 posts of people having normal conversation, giving advice and sharing ideas and then you pop in with this
F*** you abyssea. Look what you've done. MAKE EVERYTHING EASIER DO IT NOW
.

Yeah, I'm a e-thug.

[Masekase]

Putting time and Gil into it is well and good but the RNG is a significant road block to skilling anything, especially the crafts.

Last year I got it into my head to go skill a craft and take it to level 50, at least. 6 months latter and it broke level 12. This is wasn't because I or anyone else was doing anything wrong. On the contrary I read the guides, studied the recipes, even gotten advice from none other than Ctownwoody. But I'd get a .1 one craft, nothing else for 9 crafts, and then 3 .2 in a row and nothing else for almost a whole week. It got to a point that leveling the craft was getting more costly than I could afford after it had wiped out all the Gil I already had.

It needs to be overhauled.

Sorry if it took you 6 months to get to 12 you was doing something wrong. It took me no more than 2 month to get bonecraft to 70 and that was with farming ingredients.

[Komori]

I've actually never had these issues with leveling magic. My WHM was leeched (but is my main) and is sitting around 360 enhancing and 350 healing. The only one I have issues with is divine (265) because I have no need to use divine skills unless I'm proccing. But I take my WHM to VW and typically use it often in abyssea and I get skills pretty decently. I still have a ways to go until I cap them but I don't think I'm doing all that bad.

Right now I'm just trying to level shield, polearm, scythe and greatsword which aren't as easy unless I abuse my WAR (which I don't like to. I like playing my DRK and DRG more) but I'm getting there in time. Shield is about 260. Polearm is 320. Scythe and Greatsword are both about 300 even. And they were the the latest jobs I leeched up a few months ago but haven't started playing until now.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Good point. Perhaps the better fix would be to increase the experience gain so that 2 handed weapons and company gain skills as fast as 1 handed weapons do. Even if it's just that I would be satisfied.

See? There can be middle ground.

Except two-handed weapons gain a bigger boost from skills when compared to one-handed weapons.

[Trisscar]

Except two-handed weapons gain a bigger boost from skills when compared to one-handed weapons.

That maybe so but they simply won't level up for me. I'm not exaggerating when I say Great Axe hasn't leveled one iota for my Warrior when in comparison my Polearm skill caped for my Dragoon in practically no time, it's the law of really big numbers rearing its ugly head again.

Shall I explain the law of really big numbers for you again? Or maybe I should explain the concept of saving throws and diminishing returns?

[Trisscar]

Well Altepa are probably highly cleaved, so thats out, Attohwa Chasm works if you don't mind gathering them and no one is cleaving them for TEs. The ones out in Misar work but you have to hit each one 1 by 1 making it time taking and annoying once you kill them. And last is Tahrongi but thats really a last ditch effort seeing as their levels are lowest, take what you can get though, Altep is best, Tahrongi is worst, but it should work you up no matter what your doing so long as your below cap for that level.

I've forgotten to ask, but what some good places to level Ninjutsu, enfeeblement, dark, elemental, etc?

[Demon6324236]

I've forgotten to ask, but what some good places to level Ninjutsu, enfeeblement, dark, elemental, etc?

Enfeebling, Dark, and Elemental are easily done in Gustav Tunnel on the lv100+ Worms. However Elemental may cause problems unless you have refresh gear because of cost per spell. Dark you spam just Bio I over and over again, same with Enfeebling & Dia, should be ok, just make sure you keep Silence on the Worms, if you can not silence them I would advise try worms in Abyssea until you are at a safer level for Gustav, they are lv100+ so without the right gear you will not stick at lower levels, where as in Abyssea atma will get your back. Ninjutsu I would say do the same, however I am not very familiar at all with Ninja, and honestly don't even know if they can use Silence of some form, however I would say do basically the same thing except you may need to bring a mage with you for Silence and perhaps heals if a nuke slips through from the worm.

Healing should be just spamming it on yourself, same with Enhancing magic, Divine can be done at the same time as Healing by nuking skeletons which will skill Healing faster but is more dangerous. Summoning sucks to do, BRD stuff use alot of Threnodies on Worms again, and I think thats about all magical skills. General rule is if it skills faster on mobs, simply use alot of Silence and worms, if its cast on yourself to skill, Empyreal Paradox+Minikin and your set to go.

[Trisscar]

Thanks again Demon.

By the way, when you say worms in Gustav, are you referring to the oversized worms?

[Demon6324236]

Thanks again Demon.

By the way, when you say worms in Gustav, are you referring to the oversized worms?

Yep, the giant ones near the Turtles, they are basically the best magic skill up mob in the game.

[Trisscar]

Yep, the giant ones near the Turtles, they are basically the best magic skill up mob in the game.

I remember those turtles! I remember seeing them and thinking that I had wasted time in Aby learning Harden Shell*.

Oh well.

*Unless, of course, they don't use it. That's a definite possibility, the Khimeria in Aby don't use Tourbillion despite the being no rational reason for them not to be able to other than grief on Blue Mages.

[Komori]

Can anyone provide optimal gear and atma set-ups for using WAR to solo skill weapons? I'd really like to use Retaliation to finish skilling all weapons to cap on it since everyone is against faster skills in general.

Even with dark rings, Ogier Helm, Twilight Torque, Grim Cuirass etc. I'm having issues with a set-up that keeps me decent in health so far; probably more of an atma issue I would think.

[scaevola]

I'm pretty fond of stronghold/mc/vicissitude, regen gear in every slot you can get it (PDT where you can't), and AFK on melo melo. Works for every job.

EDIT: as a courtesy, be sure to CFH him before you leave, so if anybody actually needs Amphitrite they can just kill the melo you're skilling on and get the repop.

[Demon6324236]

I remember those turtles! I remember seeing them and thinking that I had wasted time in Aby learning Harden Shell*.

Oh well.

*Unless, of course, they don't use it. That's a definite possibility, the Khimeria in Aby don't use Tourbillion despite the being no rational reason for them not to be able to other than grief on Blue Mages.

If I'm not mistaken no mob in Abyssea uses moves that require special "forms" such as weapons breaking, wings breaking, and the like. However they do use Hardened but imo they are to hard to be worth trying to learn it from, easier to learn it in Abyssea.

[Trisscar]

If I'm not mistaken no mob in Abyssea uses moves that require special "forms" such as weapons breaking, wings breaking, and the like.

Apparently you are not a Blue Mage. Tourbillion is a move Khimeria will use provided you don't break their wings, because it is only used if the wings are in a raised position. If you can't break a Khimeria's wings then it should be possible to use it. Why they don't is a complete mystery to me.


However they do use Hardened but imo they are to hard to be worth trying to learn it from, easier to learn it in Abyssea.

I think I saw the ones in Gustav use Harden Shell back when I was farming my limit break item, but by then I had already learned it in Tahrongi.

[Demon6324236]

As I said, if they require a certain form, I meant with or without things being broken. I play BLU but not much, in either case I found the breaking weapons & certain parts of mobs as a very interesting thing seeing as so far as I know it is only in ToAU and WotG areas. But I suppose I was a little unclear on what I meant. So to rephrase it, they will not use attacks that rely on something being broken or unbroken in Abyssea, due to the inability to break anything at all and thus prevent or allow the use of said move. It is likely because the game looks to check if the wings are up or not, since the game is not programed to have those mobs able to be broken or not, this check would automatically fail and thus it could never use said TP, thats just what I think though, I'm not sure how all that works exactly.

[Xantavia]

Healing should be just spamming it on yourself, same with Enhancing magic,
I've had it pointed out to me that for something like enhancing, your NPC fellow (if leveled high enough) is a great target for skilling up. I got around 40 levels in 90 minutes just spamming protect 1 on her over and over, going from 210 to about 250. I'm thinking it works like skilling up on the generals in beseiged did, only this time there is no danger of somebody tossing a buff you can't overwrite.

[Trisscar]

I've had it pointed out to me that for something like enhancing, your NPC fellow (if leveled high enough) is a great target for skilling up.

I don't see how it would matter what level your fellow is, though.

[Demon6324236]

I've had it pointed out to me that for something like enhancing, your NPC fellow (if leveled high enough) is a great target for skilling up. I got around 40 levels in 90 minutes just spamming protect 1 on her over and over, going from 210 to about 250. I'm thinking it works like skilling up on the generals in beseiged did, only this time there is no danger of somebody tossing a buff you can't overwrite.

I wouldn't know, I just went with Barele spells and spammed them for hours and days on end.

[0nionKn1ght]

I liked the part where a pair of special cases spent 3 pages arguing over the internet.