Could everyone just leave Abyssea content and let it die already?

[Luvbunny]

I am posting here to urge everyone especially if you are in Bahamut server to influence other people to leave Abyssea content alone and never to return. I mean it's been two years already, surely everyone and their grandmas should have enough of abyssea this and that. After all the majority of players here hate abyssea since it ruined FFXI gameplay and promote leeching and let everyone just speed level to 99. I am sure the new "recycled" content should be much much better than the easy button abyssea. Why can everyone just leave this content.....

And why bother upgrading your AF3+2 if the Relic+2 offer better stats and you get to do neo dyna which I am sure should be a better experience since you get to do it the way it was meant to be, old school farm!! Could everyone please spread the word so that people would go back do GoV party and whatever old school set up that seems to be extremely popular in the last 9 years alone.

This abyssea thing is like cancer that just would not go away. It turned SMNs into a beast of a soloer and killing all the NMs on their own, what kind of people do this?? And let's not go into beastmaster, that job suddenly become awesome and having all the fun solo farming NM, it's just not fair. And why puppetmaster suddenly no longer LOL? I thought old school was the only way to do stuffs since apparently turned feeble players to become awesome sauce since they have the safety nets of 5 other people and no longer under pressure to solo NMs where a slight miscalculation can doom your effort. It's ridiculous that dancer can solo a lot of stuffs now and refuse to do some healing.... I mean they are healer not DD... This abyssea is way too much fun of a content apparently and addictive like crack, which we all know crack is whack.

I really need to have abyssea areas all for myself and have no competition so I can farm NMs all day long, claim those timed NMs, finish all my empy gears AF3+2, farm stuffs. It's like every time going inside abyssea there are people everywhere.... all the time.... like they should do better thing than abyssea content. Even the developer hated it and called it failure, that should send a good message that players should leave abyssea content and do the ridiculous other grind fest outside abyssea.

Who wants to have abyssea all for themselves and make people start doing the new old school way of doing things and focus on Relic+2 instead of clogging abyssea and ruin the experience of all the abyssea lovers out there?

Please spread abyssea hate for the love of god, let this content just die, NOW!!

[Slaxx]

4/5 Would read again.

[Demon6324236]

why bother upgrading your AF3+2 if the Relic+2 offer better stats

What? O.o;

[Luvbunny]

LOL I hope you get the hint of my sarcasm on my post :) Really need people to leave abyssea content so I can just have all the fun there whenever I log and don't have to deal with people camping heqet, tunga, gukumatz, etc.... It's like those mobs are camped 24/7, why people still do this, and not let abyssea just die :P

[RAIST]

I'm confusedededed.... do you hate it , or love it?

If you love it, wouldn't it stand to reason that others love it too and that's why they are in there?

{Edit:}
Looks like we posted at same time.... and yeah, sometimes the sarcasm doesn't reach out and grab you at first.

[Luvbunny]

I am posting as reaction to all those abyssea haters who feel that the game should be "achievement" in grindfestastic to 99 and thinking that 6 person party is the solutions to everything and old school way is like OMG the second coming of Jesus. All those daydreamers who enjoy LFP for 3-6 hours while doing god knows what with their hands. Or the masochist that enjoy remaking party over and over because your healer, tank or rdm left an hour after the party started. I mean surely we can promote all these abyssea hate and push people to leave the two year "so old its outdated" content. This way all the abyssea lover like us can have our fun, enjoy it with less competition, and brew everything when we feel like it just because we can.

These haters blame EVERYTHING that is wrong in the game to Abyssea content and paint it like a disease that destroy the mental health of FFXI. Yet they too took the crack, and pretty much addicted and consumed it - but have a high and mighty attitude and look down to all other players who are working toward their gears and still using the teal, perle, and pink gears. These so called "superiors old school farts" believe that abysssea content is so atrocious, never appreciate all the good thing that it offers and how it literally uprooted the old moldy outdated FFXI pre summer 2010 and transformed it to the way it is today. A much more modern game that is faster, snappier, enjoyable, fun, accessible and addictive.

Abysssea also being blamed for the death of those exclusive LS which demand you have this and that and worked your ass off for xyz gears or you are deemed gimped stupid and retarded players. Now those LS are dead and pretty much everyone can have fun and have the same chance to obtain those nice gears without having to need 17 other people to help them. It also gave us VW which is old school way of doing things with modern twist of Abyssea flavor.

[0nionKn1ght]

This post wasted 8 seconds of my life. I swear some of you people would post a video of you burping if you thought that too was hilarious.

[Aldersyde]

I'm confusedededed.... do you hate it , or love it?

If you love it, wouldn't it stand to reason that others love it too and that's why they are in there?

{Edit:}
Looks like we posted at same time.... and yeah, sometimes the sarcasm doesn't reach out and grab you at first.

It does when you recall that each week, and every week. without fail, someone will make some topic/derail an already existing topic into a conversation about how abyssea wrecked the game, is easy mode, overpowers jobs, etc. and someone else will waltz into the thread and say "lolz, who does abyssea anymore?"

I saw the sarcasm right away.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

After this and that VW run last night, I'm begining to wonder about people from bahamut.

[Luvbunny]

I am starting to wonder that all those "Abyssea Haters" have ulterior motive to get people out of Abyssea so that they can have the zones all for themselves.

[Infidi]

Poor Guku... All he wants is a hug and adventurers keep slaughtering him. It's a good thing his wife Sobek( yes she is a girl, look under her skirt! :D) was paid up on all those life insurance policies.

[Luvbunny]

LOL, yeah Guku and Heqet, those two seems to be super popular with the crowds. I don't get it why people are still clamoring for them day in and day out. They should go hugs other NMs instead and busy doing Voidwatch, Legion, Neo Nyzul, Neo Einherjar, Neo Limbus. I mean, SE threw so many "new" contents at us in the past year alone, but yet people still cannot get off the crack that is Abyssea, even GoV is modeled after dominion, and yet people still flock the real thing. I thought abyssea was a total biggest failure and a real stinker of a bomb, I mean seems like most posters here pretty much agreed on that and blame everything on it. Can it just die already so that the real abyssea lovers can get more love and not have to deal with competition :)

[Shadax]

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa453/hmbruce/cancer.jpg

[Luvbunny]

You got cancer from peeking at Sobek's skirt? I feel sorry for you, that's what happened when you spent too much time in Abyssea peeking at NM's underskirt. Go do more Legion, it will make you feel much better!!

[Logandor]

Sorry I couldn't help but lol some at this... been trying to get into learning void watch for a while but too few people I know are willing to take time aside and teach me the fundamentals of it. So with that being said I am sitting on a ton of void stones, and working on getting a relic and emp weapon made. /sigh Hope vw is as fun as it sounds. :P

p.s. I did read up on it on wiki too. Void watch I mean but I am a try it out and learn from actions type of gamer.

[Luvbunny]

It's rather easy with void watch, the general rule is you want to do your magic proc, weapon skill proc, and job ability proc, very similar to Abyssea. Each proc category raised different lights value, for Key Items, Items quality, quantity, etc... You can raise these lights by trading cells on the flux before the battle begin. These cells - 3 of them are purchased at the Officer, the other 2 you can get using conquest, allied notes points, aht ungat points. Every-time you proc, temp items are refilled, melee DD use either fools or fanatics depending on mobs tp abilities and magic casting. When you fight NMs that summon adds, you want your paladin to engage first, get the adds out of the way and hold it alone by himself while the rest of the group focus on the main NMs and continue proc. They introduce /fume to reset the weakness in case the proc is beastmaster ability and there is none in your alliance. They also introduced displacer which is a brew type, cost you 100k each and you can buy it 5 max every week. Any other questions?

[Luvbunny]

I would start doing the voidwatch and try to get the cities clear, then jeuno tier 1, cop tier 1, aht ungat tier 1, mainly because each of those series give you additional stone, this way you can have 6 at a time. Once you do, continue clearing the rest of the series and the zilart ones. When you have 6 stones with you, just join those HOT Voidwatch NM where they pop 6 times for the gears (Pil, Kaggen, Akvan, Qilin, etc...). You dont need clear for these, just the person who pop must have clear, so while you try to finish the rest of the series you can maximize your chance with these HOT NMs. Don't wait up too long since once the new expansion is released, less and less people will do voidwatch.

Plus its good to get off the abyssea crack once in awhile, I mean all the abyssea lovers would love to go to empty zones and camped NMs with no competition... and Gukumatz need to get less love!!

[Ragmar]

Be funny to see how long it would still take you to complete an empy considering you are still very far behind the curve. Be like watching a drunk cripple try to compete in Ninja Warrior lol.

[Logandor]

Well been helping other people with theirs so I am only now getting to work on mine lol. Yeah it's going to take a long time sense most of them ditched but oh well. :) I got experience at least and besides I have fun in the game so I am over all happy with it taking time though once it is done I am hoping to have a lot more fun. ^.^

@ Luvbuny: Thank you for the info. :) If I think of any questions I may ask. :)

[Mirabelle]

LOL, yeah Guku and Heqet, those two seems to be super popular with the crowds. I don't get it why people are still clamoring for them day in and day out. They should go hugs other NMs instead and busy doing Voidwatch, Legion, Neo Nyzul, Neo Einherjar, Neo Limbus. I mean, SE threw so many "new" contents at us in the past year alone, but yet people still cannot get off the crack that is Abyssea, even GoV is modeled after dominion, and yet people still flock the real thing. I thought abyssea was a total biggest failure and a real stinker of a bomb, I mean seems like most posters here pretty much agreed on that and blame everything on it. Can it just die already so that the real abyssea lovers can get more love and not have to deal with competition :)

Yeah 4 years into Abyssea and Guku's Aery is still camped to hell. Just finished helping a LS mate get his 85 Almace over there and only once was it relatively uncamped.
Some of the less popular Empy paths are a bit better these days but Abyssea still brings in people to this day.

[HimuraKenshyn]

Many are not finished collecting all the different empy weapons by a long shot lol. Heck my cor is level 6 and I am working on my gun lol at least my rng is 99 ;-)....

[Mahoro]

Abysssea also being blamed for the death of those exclusive LS which demand you have this and that and worked your ass off for xyz gears or you are deemed gimped stupid and retarded players. Now those LS are dead and pretty much everyone can have fun and have the same chance to obtain those nice gears without having to need 17 other people to help them. It also gave us VW which is old school way of doing things with modern twist of Abyssea flavor.

The way you write this sounds like those LS's were like the pharaohs of ancient Egypt oppressing the Jews, until one day Moses led his people free of their shackles and now "everyone can have fun!" Sadly, the game is still full of people who deem you gimped/stupid/retarded if you don't meet their standards, and will exclude you even from /shout groups for events like Prov Watcher and Botulus Rex. They just don't need LS's from which to do it. I'd also submit that only the poorly-managed LS's died. The rest adapted and they are still around today doing the type of content that is nearly impossible to /shout for, like ADL, Neo-Odin, Legion, Neo-Limbus, etc.

[Windwhisper]

This thread needs some Team Rocket action

[Infidi]

This thread needs some Team Rocket action

Here ya go! http://img2.moonbuggy.org/imgstore/team-rocket.jpg

[cidbahamut]

This thread needs some Team Rocket action

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n564/coasterguy666/oh-look-its-this-thread-again.jpg?

[saevel]

I'm laughing my a$$ off.

LB, good job at the satire for all those jacka$$'s.

Other then NNI 100 gear (which nobody is supposed to actually get), most post-abyssea content / gear is just side grades or marginal upgrades. The effort / reward ratio just isn't there. It's almost like SE expects us to throw ourselves into whatever crap they invent for no other reason then to say we're "doing something".

[Luvbunny]

Be funny to see how long it would still take you to complete an empy considering you are still very far behind the curve. Be like watching a drunk cripple try to compete in Ninja Warrior lol.

Completing empyrean is not very hard - I been doing it very slowly dual boxing and killing tons of NMs that are easier to deal with like Cirein Coin, Carabose, Itza, Ulduashi, Briareus, Sedna etc while collecting those plus 2.

[Luvbunny]

The way you write this sounds like those LS's were like the pharaohs of ancient Egypt oppressing the Jews, until one day Moses led his people free of their shackles and now "everyone can have fun!" Sadly, the game is still full of people who deem you gimped/stupid/retarded if you don't meet their standards, and will exclude you even from /shout groups for events like Prov Watcher and Botulus Rex.

Totally agree, I was just being sarcastic since everyone blame everything that is wrong to Abyssea, every single thing is Abyssea's fault etc... But yeah they never fail to realize that it is the human that is to blame for everything that is wrong to the game. It is our human nature to do things the most efficient ways possible, or to feel cocky and entitled, or to belittle those who are different than us or not willing to do what the majority does. Abyssea just created a great content that level the playing field for everyone. And for the love of God, why are Gukumatz still being camped every single minutes...

[Godofgods]

I am posting here to urge everyone especially if you are in Bahamut server to influence other people to leave Abyssea content alone and never to return. I mean it's been two years already, surely everyone and their grandmas should have enough of abyssea this and that.

I love this logic. Its been even longer then 2 years since Wotg, RoZ, CoP, was introduced, so lets completely abandon all of them as well. In fact this whole game is older then two years right? We should just abandon the whole thing then.

[Dazusu]

This kind of thread is why the Dev team ignore English-speaking players and their opinions.

[Mahoro]

I love this logic. Its been even longer then 2 years since Wotg, RoZ, CoP, was introduced, so lets completely abandon all of them as well. In fact this whole game is older then two years right? We should just abandon the whole thing then.

Her OP was facetious.

[Fupafighter]

Can you just not make threads complaining about people?

[Plasticleg]

;_; poster-san, y cnt u plz leave the area so i can has my guku ki?

server pls ;_;

[detlef]

Does anybody else think that the original post was just... awful? Do you feel a little worse about the human race?

[Demon6324236]

Does no one realize that it was sarcastic?

[Plasticleg]

the op would've been funny a year ago.

[detlef]

Does no one realize that it was sarcastic?
Just because it was sarcastic doesn't make it a good or meaningful post.

[Luvbunny]

Indeed, but take a look at the other "meaningless" post blaming everything on Abyssea, or the ones where one boneheaded donut muffin cupcake ladyman trying to get across his precious opinion that everyone has to go back to old school party. What about the ones asking beast nerf without the op knowing how to play beast and why beast is what it is now.... All I want people to realize is that Abyssea is not bad, it is not a disease, it does not destroy the game. All the blame abyssea mentality should be about blame the players mentality.

[Ragmar]

Completing empyrean is not very hard - I been doing it very slowly dual boxing and killing tons of NMs that are easier to deal with like Cirein Coin, Carabose, Itza, Ulduashi, Briareus, Sedna etc while collecting those plus 2.

Someone missed the point.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Can you just not make threads complaining about people?There have been already.

[Lollerblades]

I do enjoy threads like these ! Always fun for a quick giggle when you're bored

[Limecat]

I'm gonna go to Abyssea. I'm gonna go to Abyssea and roll around in a pile of cluckatrices, and you can't stop me!

[Logandor]

I'm gonna go to Abyssea. I'm gonna go to Abyssea and roll around in a pile of cluckatrices, and you can't stop me!

Okay that just made my week to read... lol have fun with birdies :D I'm going to go play with the hounds.

[Luvbunny]

Hmm apparently Abyssea is still not dead, it was dying for a bit and now it is heavily populated again.... What gives? I thought everyone is done with this and move on to better things. I guess now that the casual players which made up the 90% of the population is finally able to enjoy the content, they are now starting to consume abyssea more. This is not good, it's going to be rough with competition camping the timed NM... There are actual lines on worm party on weekends and prime time hours. Time to level up your alts and dual box accounts :)

[Mirage]

Everyone else put it on hold in hope that everyone else would stop doing it.

Who would have seen that coming?

[Luvbunny]

Well the hardcore are pretty much done with Abyssea and hardly even returned - they are focusing on voidwatch, legion, neo nyzul-salvage-limbus-einherjar and meeble burrows now. But the casual is finally catching up with Abyssea - you would think that they would just go skip this and migrate to the rest of the newer stuffs lol. On the plus side, everything is cheaper now, pop set is a whole lot cheaper. Finding people for seal hunting is also not too bad, you just hope they have your proc jobs and not 1-2 jobs where it is rather useless for abyssea seal hunt.

With expansion coming in the horizon, I don't see this abyssea thing dead and forgotten anytime soon, it's going to be packed with a bunch of geomancer and rune fencer in alliances. Ground tomes area aka Zeruhm Mine will be full of people leveling up alts and mules on these two new jobs soon lol. Time to take a long break to avoid the big rush.

[Arcon]

Well the hardcore are pretty much done with Abyssea and hardly even returned - they are focusing on voidwatch, legion, neo nyzul-salvage-limbus-einherjar and meeble burrows now.

The hardcore were done with Abyssea over two years ago.


But the casual is finally catching up with Abyssea - you would think that they would just go skip this and migrate to the rest of the newer stuffs lol.

Why would you think that? Abyssea still has great gear to offer for the least effort. There simply isn't anything else for casuals, except Voidwatch for some of them. Legion is not casual content, neither is Limbus II, Neo-Nyzul or Odin II. Meeble Burrows is, arguably, but it's not a replacement for Abyssea because the gear selection is rather limited. Only the very recently introduced Salvage II could be called a casual competitor for Abyssea gear, and it's still not adapted by many (and the gear doesn't even beat it in all places, AF3+2 is still best-in slot for quite a few pieces on quite a few jobs).

Also, they aren't "catching up" with Abyssea, even many casuals are already done with it. The majority of people I know who are doing it now are people who are new or returning and this is their primary place of interest at this point in the game. We have had a lot of new players lately, and they're all in Abyssea getting their final levels, skills and gear now.


With expansion coming in the horizon, I don't see this abyssea thing dead and forgotten anytime soon, it's going to be packed with a bunch of geomancer and rune fencer in alliances. Ground tomes area aka Zeruhm Mine will be full of people leveling up alts and mules on these two new jobs soon lol. Time to take a long break to avoid the big rush.

I don't think it will take very long at all, a week maybe until most people are done with it. Also, they may introduce some new EXP places with the expansion as well, you never know. SE have been extremely EXP-friendly in recent years, so I wouldn't be surprised.

[Camiie]

There also are people like me who just leveled a new (to me) job and need AF3, other gear, and/or emp weapons. Sorry, but there simply is no way to bypass Abyssea.

[Teraniku]

Hmm apparently Abyssea is still not dead, it was dying for a bit and now it is heavily populated again.... What gives? I thought everyone is done with this and move on to better things. I guess now that the casual players which made up the 90% of the population is finally able to enjoy the content, they are now starting to consume abyssea more. This is not good, it's going to be rough with competition camping the timed NM... There are actual lines on worm party on weekends and prime time hours. Time to level up your alts and dual box accounts :)

Give it a few more weeks, I ca virtually guarantee Abyssea content will be a ghost town for a little while.... (Until people unlock the new jobs then use aby to Leech them to 99)

[Luvbunny]

I am more curious if SE will decide that Abyssea is where you get your xp for whatever reasons, and Ground Tomes. I wonder what they will introduce in the new expansion. Seems like the way things are going now is gear collecting, upgrading and replacing your current ones depending on the situation. Meeble has quite a few nice ones but they are not exactly easy to get ASAP, will have to keep doing it and amass points. Seems like the new expansion is more about exploration and mini events, crafting and what not, playing as monsters, not so much about xp. Then again they have tons of new monsters, what are we to do with them - unless it's for farming purposes. We should see I suppose.

Abyssea is not gonna die as long as newcomers and casuals still want to make empyrean weapons (unless the new expansion will add a slew of new weapons that are comparable or slightly less powerful but a lot less work to get) Just like Dynamis is not going to die, and salvage. I just wish they revamp the city dyna zones so more people can have choices to farm currency.

[Hayward]

Well-played satire! As long as AF3+2 is there for the getting, Abyssea won't die out regardless of the professional endgamers' hopes and illusions of grandeur. If the developers are going to convince players to leave Abyssea, they'll need to make any and all future rewards in Adoulin worth the efforts required minus the cheap tactics on either side (player exploits and developer-made AoE death moves). And, no, requiring Legion, NNI, or Pandemonium gear to even dent the NMs will not do the job.

[Luvbunny]

Yes here is hoping that SoA will give us a new way to exp, a wide variety of events to obtain new gears without requiring that you MUST do all the previous expansions for gears. A lot more choices for casual to solo, duo and trio for mini events that do not require you must do a 30-45 mnts shout for jobs ABC for 18-36 people. And just more fun with a great reward/effort ratio so that all can log in for 2-3 hours at most and accomplish a decent amount of goals. No waiting around for shouts.

I am very worried if SoA does not deliver a decent amount of content right of the gate, people will be disappointed and leave the game. Worse, they come back to Abyssea again... and never leave that place. And everyone will start making empy weapons right and left (the casual crowd), overcrowding the plus 2 NMs. At least you can go back wait in line for Worm party, along with the 20 geomancer and rune fencer and their lvl 99 alts. Maybe those dual boxers can make their own cleave party lol.

[Areayea]

I especially liked your comment that players used to do god knows what with their hands while lfp for like 6 hours ^^

[hideka]

Bluh Bluh Bluh ;_;

this sounds like a troll from someone who cant get the shit that they need from abyssea *Cough*Colorlesssouls*Cough*

[saevel]

Abyssea won't die out regardless of the professional endgamers' hopes and illusions of grandeur

Oh I'm so going to start using that, very descriptive title.

[Rustic]

Pssh. As long as Abyssea is an easy moder's wet dream, cleave parties and AFK powerlevelfests will never go away.

I'd cry tears of joy if Adoulin proceeds to take a nice, happy gear jump over Abyssea equipment and we get back to things that actually take six or eighteen people working together on a regular basis again. Endgame content that can be two-manned with a dualbox is facepalmingly bad.

[Camiie]

Pssh. As long as Abyssea is an easy moder's wet dream, cleave parties and AFK powerlevelfests will never go away.

I'd cry tears of joy if Adoulin proceeds to take a nice, happy gear jump over Abyssea equipment and we get back to things that actually take six or eighteen people working together on a regular basis again. Endgame content that can be two-manned with a dualbox is facepalmingly bad.

Nothing says fun like spending 3+ hours a day with 17 other people, only a fraction of which you can actually stand to be around, while they argue over lotting order and how badly everyone but them and their 2 BFFs suck.

[Luvbunny]

Nothing says fun like spending 3+ hours a day with 17 other people, only a fraction of which you can actually stand to be around, while they argue over lotting order and how badly everyone but them and their 2 BFFs suck.

Yup, please not this kind of events again. Unless you get your own points and your own drops on the box. And you can get booster like Atma plus weakening items. There is a reason why those 18-36 people events are not so very popular. Voidwatch is exception, they make it very Abyssea friendly. They need to focus to make contents that are accessible by 90% of the population and not the 10%. It can be challenging but you should not need more than a party of 6 to complete it. Meeble Burrow is a great example. Fully customizable boon, and very accessible to all level 99, a bit dicey to dual box :)

I understand a lot of us want challenging content but there is no reason why it should not be addictive, enjoyable and accessible to all. A good example to this is Etrian Odyssey 4 on 3DS. Previous series of this game are very niche and not quite accessible but the new version keep all the uniqueness of the series while opening up the accessibility part, creating one of the most addictive game on the go even for novice. The same goes to Fire Emblem: Awakening. FFXI can be niche game, but very casual friendly, and extremely addictive still.

[Rustic]

Nothing says fun like spending 3+ hours a day with 17 other people, only a fraction of which you can actually stand to be around, while they argue over lotting order and how badly everyone but them and their 2 BFFs suck.

That I can do without, but hey- you can sit there and hand people generic stuff that they can turn in for shinies at the end instead of having random AF drops that rot every run instead. Or ??? items that inevitably turn into copper ore or that kinda crud.

Point being, if we don't have content that takes more than one person to complete (or one person twoboxing), is it really an MMO anymore?

[saevel]

Pssh. As long as Abyssea is an easy moder's wet dream, cleave parties and AFK powerlevelfests will never go away.

I'd cry tears of joy if Adoulin proceeds to take a nice, happy gear jump over Abyssea equipment and we get back to things that actually take six or eighteen people working together on a regular basis again. Endgame content that can be two-manned with a dualbox is facepalmingly bad.

You so totally want 4hr+ kings camps. Waiting hours and hours standing around doing absolutely nothing and hoping that you get claim. Of course "getting claim" wasn't even about skill but who could collect the most money from their shell.

But hey we're just using rose colored lenses to justify wanting to walk bass ackwards.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

but hey- you can sit there and hand people generic stuff that they can turn in for shinies at the end

Giant frozen heads aren't as shiny as one would think, really. Relic shields even less so.

[Vivivivi]

You're of course entitled to your opinion, but I largely disagree with your sentiments.

I'm actually a big fan of Abyssea content in general. I'm not in favor of leech parties but that is just one aspect of (in my opinion) a very fun and empowering set of end game content.

To me, here is what Abyssea offers in 2013:
-Wide variety of training grounds: Whether you're trying to complete a magian trial, learn blue magic, or just get some practice on a job, Abyssea is a great place to do all of those things. Atma really make things like testing macros, or just getting some practice much easier.
-Empyrean Armor is still relevant: Sure with new Nyzul and Voidwatch gear you see less people running around clad in full AF3 sets, but some of it is still the best out there for the job.
-Empyrean Weapons are very relevant: while relics may technically be easier to obtain, Empyrean Weapons are certainly the fastest to get to a usable state.
-Soloable content: One of the best things about Abyssea is that so much of it is solo able. Don't get me wrong I prefer to do things with friends because it's more fun, but gripes I have with things like Assaults requiring 3 people are gone in Abyssea. Most if not all quests are soloable, a lot of NMs are solo able, there is so much to do there if you feel like playing alone or just killing time.
-It's the new Dynamis: Dynamis as it stands is it's own thing, Abyssea is a more extensive, free-er type of end game battle content.

I think Abyssea will remain relevant for a long time for those reasons, but I am also in agreement we don't need many refinements to it anytime soon. Game-breaking atma was fun to mess around with- being able to skew stats in extreme directions and try out a lot of "what if" scenarios, but I'm perfectly content leaving it in Abyssea and moving on to Adoulin and content like Meeble Borrows where boons and buffs are nice enhancements, but only useful if you're skilled on your job.

[Luvbunny]

Agree with your points above. Right now the game is giving us more options on what to do. From the solo-able, dual box-able stuffs, 3-6 people mini events, to a big alliance style old school (and abyssea flavored). Plus the quests and missions. And the magian trials. Old expansion contents that are soloable. And old content endgame both the original and refreshed versions. What is so great about abyssea is giving us almost instant 99 so you no longer have to deal with xp grind and can immediately do all the end game contents, using abyssea as your training grounds (or go for old school style with Ground Tome). The bad thing is, people just keep on flocking abyssea content still lol, even with so many non abyssea options widely available and completely accessible. I certainly hope SoA will give us another expansion that is extremely well design, 100% accessible from the get go, and very addictive to replace the current addiction to Abyssea. And not an endgame content that is 3 years in the making, we do not need some crappy mini events that no one will bother doing it since it's just a filler. If we are paying $30-40 then it's better be fully fleshed out like Abyssea contents.

[Afania]

I am posting as reaction to all those abyssea haters who feel that the game should be "achievement" in grindfestastic to 99 and thinking that 6 person party is the solutions to everything and old school way is like OMG the second coming of Jesus.

This post is fishing, I see. But hey someone has to bite the bait.

6 person EXP pt is way more fun than leeching in Abyssea or FoV to lv 99 though. Whether spending such long time to grind to lv 75 is debateable.....yeah, if it takes months to grind to lv 75, even if 6 person pt is fun eventually it'd get boring.

But I really can't see how standing there afking or use keys to open chests with other silent afk players, mostly naked and never try harder to improve performance(since you'll get high EXP gain already, why bother to gear yourself)

is more fun than

playing with 5 other players, each with their own job role, chating and challenging to perform better for higher EXP gain.

I mean, when your pt performed a long chain in old EXP pt, you never feel satisfied? When you get to know a player that's more than just someone you happened to be in same pt for 2hrs, you never feel happy?

Lving in Abyssea is just boring. It's fast yeah, but it's like eating bread with no flavor. You eat bread with no flavor because you need to, once it's done you forget about the taste of it. So you'd rather get rid of it ASAP.

I've done old 6 person EXP pt that takes ages to start and grind, and fast Abyssea EXP pt that I just afk and come back after 2hr to check my progress. I'm always happy with my progress in Abyssea, but in the end it's the old 6 person EXP that I remembered for a very long time. That's where(and old CoP too) I meet valueable, lasting friendship. Unlike Abyssea EXP pt, I can't remember anyone I pt with in Abyssea, which is sad.

Those who claimed "fast and fun is modern design", explain why. Majority of so called "modern games" rarely give me any memoriable experience. Not sure why "modern design" is the holy grail for gaming. If I want fast and fun instant gratification, I can just play mine sweeper, or watch TV, or play games on mobile phone. But if I'm playing MMORPG, I'm looking a long lasting experience I'd remember for life. And that's what FFXI is. 6 person EXP pt gave me a chance to meet ppl from all over the world that I'd never have a chance to meet irl, and to know more about their background and how they live. Abyssea pt does not.

[Arcon]

Those who claimed "fast and fun is modern design", explain why.

Because "fun" is what games are supposed to be. In case you forgot?

Fast is not important in general. It's important here, because it lets you get to the relevant part of the game faster. Slow just means wasting more time in mid levels doing nothing.

Your imagination seems to be very limited, as you can't seem to understand what others see in these things, so let me try to show you my perspective:


But I really can't see how standing there afking or use keys to open chests with other silent afk players, mostly naked and never try harder to improve performance(since you'll get high EXP gain already, why bother to gear yourself)

is more fun than

playing with 5 other players, each with their own job role, chating and challenging to perform better for higher EXP gain.

These examples are so horribly skewed to your favor that it's hard to even respond. Would would you say, if I presented my opinion this subjectively:


I really can't see how anything thinks it's fun and enriching to wait for hours for a tank to show up, during which you get upset with other people and they leave, then find a tank who doesn't perform properly and runs away from Trick Attacks, which you only find out after you take an hour getting to the camp, because someone did not have the teleport crystal, and then the first guy remembers that he has to pick up his kids from school, so you need to find a replacement and start arguing again, and all of that for the privilege of getting to club crabs for a few EXP, which you may even lose again, because the EXP penalties for dying are extremely high compared to the EXP gain, thus forcing you to fight for hours, days and months, all on the same mobs, over and over again, with no challenge and no variety, while locking you out of the actual content of the game, which only makes you get fed up, because you still can't get to play with your LS mates who are already 75 and doing all kinds of fun events that you don't have access to, resolving that you will not level any other jobs in the future because it's just not worth the effort, and pray that someone will invite your BST regardless, which, of course, will not happen.

All of that compared to a way to level that lets you play if you enjoy it, and not if you don't, and enable you to still catch up to your friends to participate in the good things FFXI has to offer. All of that with a casual attitude, where people don't get mad if you have to afk for half an hour because your dinner is ready and you don't feel guilty for making people stop during that time, enjoying casual conversations, more so than during old EXP, because you can actually focus on the chat every now and then without breaking the party's EXP speed.

Now you will no doubt want to reply to that and counter some of the arguments, but you really don't need to, because the point is, that everyone has their own way of looking at things. One more thing that may make it clearer is the following:


Lving in Abyssea is just boring. It's fast yeah, but it's like eating bread with no flavor. You eat bread with no flavor because you need to, once it's done you forget about the taste of it. So you'd rather get rid of it ASAP.

Precisely. Everyone who loves Abyssea and everyone who hates Abyssea will agree with it. The thing that you don't understand, because you obviously feel differently about it, is that the exact same thing applies to old EXP for many people. I thought it was horribly boring. It took me three years to get my first 75, because I just couldn't stand having to level so much at a time to get there, so I quit for a few months every now and then. You mention the social aspect a lot, and it may even be somewhat applicable, but the social experience in a MMOG is tied to its content. Otherwise, why are you playing FFXI? Go to a random chatroom, not like there's a shortage of those. Bond with people there.

The problem is, that and EXP as content was horrible. It was not engaging. Fighting boring mobs you've fought a million times before, brain dead spam of WS and abilities, for hours on end, no thinking required, no strategy required, coordination required, nothing. Gameplay-wise, it was completely forgettable. Just as Abyssea is now.

The true social experience comes from doing linkshell events. Things where you discuss strategy with your team mates, where it doesn't work out at first, and you coordinate and change plans to make it work eventually, and succeed as part of a group who worked together to achieve something. This is the true capability of a game, to provide social bonding in a context of achievement. And that was simply lacking in EXP. You mentioned the long EXP chain, which people strived for, but did they? If the party sucked, that was impossible. If it was good, it worked. But either way, you accepted it, you just called one party shitty and bragged about the other. It was exciting to me, the first time. The second time and every subsequent time, it was just a chore. A chore you reluctantly wanted to do, but could have been ruined by a simple phone call or door ring, and often it was. Hence there was nothing special about it.

To recap, and to answer your question I quoted at the beginning, there is a reason why modern works. Modern is modern, because companies figured out people liked that. Otherwise they wouldn't have adopted it, and it would have never become modern.

I disagree with several modern notions of games, including several modern aspects of Abyssea. In fact, if you asked that bunny over there, she would probably consider me one of the worst anti-Abyssea preachers on this forum and I'm rather sure she has quite the grudge against me. But many of the changes Abyssea provided appeal to a large group of people, and it's not hard to see why: low effort, instant gratification. That also brings many problems with it, especially in a game like FFXI (some of which I've even explained even in this thread), but it's still not hard to see why the developers thought it may have been a good idea to implement them, as well as why people are attracted to them.

[Afania]

Because "fun" is what games are supposed to be. In case you forgot?

Fast is not important in general. It's important here, because it lets you get to the relevant part of the game faster. Slow just means wasting more time in mid levels doing nothing.

Your imagination seems to be very limited, as you can't seem to understand what others see in these things, so let me try to show you my perspective:



These examples are so horribly skewed to your favor that it's hard to even respond. Would would you say, if I presented my opinion this subjectively:



Now you will no doubt want to reply to that and counter some of the arguments, but you really don't need to, because the point is, that everyone has their own way of looking at things. One more thing that may make it clearer is the following:



Precisely. Everyone who loves Abyssea and everyone who hates Abyssea will agree with it. The thing that you don't understand, because you obviously feel differently about it, is that the exact same thing applies to old EXP for many people. I thought it was horribly boring. It took me three years to get my first 75, because I just couldn't stand having to level so much at a time to get there, so I quit for a few months every now and then. You mention the social aspect a lot, and it may even be somewhat applicable, but the social experience in a MMOG is tied to its content. Otherwise, why are you playing FFXI? Go to a random chatroom, not like there's a shortage of those. Bond with people there.

The problem is, that and EXP as content was horrible. It was not engaging. Fighting boring mobs you've fought a million times before, brain dead spam of WS and abilities, for hours on end, no thinking required, no strategy required, coordination required, nothing. Gameplay-wise, it was completely forgettable. Just as Abyssea is now.

The true social experience comes from doing linkshell events. Things where you discuss strategy with your team mates, where it doesn't work out at first, and you coordinate and change plans to make it work eventually, and succeed as part of a group who worked together to achieve something. This is the true capability of a game, to provide social bonding in a context of achievement. And that was simply lacking in EXP. You mentioned the long EXP chain, which people strived for, but did they? If the party sucked, that was impossible. If it was good, it worked. But either way, you accepted it, you just called one party shitty and bragged about the other. It was exciting to me, the first time. The second time and every subsequent time, it was just a chore. A chore you reluctantly wanted to do, but could have been ruined by a simple phone call or door ring, and often it was. Hence there was nothing special about it.

To recap, and to answer your question I quoted at the beginning, there is a reason why modern works. Modern is modern, because companies figured out people liked that. Otherwise they wouldn't have adopted it, and it would have never become modern.

I disagree with several modern notions of games, including several modern aspects of Abyssea. In fact, if you asked that bunny over there, she would probably consider me one of the worst anti-Abyssea preachers on this forum and I'm rather sure she has quite the grudge against me. But many of the changes Abyssea provided appeal to a large group of people, and it's not hard to see why: low effort, instant gratification. That also brings many problems with it, especially in a game like FFXI (some of which I've even explained even in this thread), but it's still not hard to see why the developers thought it may have been a good idea to implement them, as well as why people are attracted to them.

1. You sound like I'm the only one against Abyssea lving, but I'm not. There are voices that's against it for ages.

2. I already stated whether spending such long time to lv or not is fun, is debateable, in fact probably most ppl would think it's not. I don't like to spend months to get my 1st 75 too, and I wasn't compare traditional lving to endgame event.

I was comparing 6 man pt v.s Abyssea key leech pt. If both ways requires same amount of time to hit cap, there's no doubt old 6 person EXP pt is more fun than key leech or afk leech. Kill mobs over and over again may be boring, kill mobs over and over again while semi afking, don't try to push higher chain, and little to chat about is even more boring.

I'm not sure how it's "skewed to my favor" when it comes to this aspect. You can ask someone that been to both. Ask them to do 6 person pt for 1hr on their favorite job, and key box for 1hr on their favorite job too, don't read your EXP watch(pretend you get same EXP after 1hr), see which one they find it more fun?

I lv plenty of jobs in Abyssea era, and just didn't have a chance to experience how it's like to play it for real until I hit cap, which is sad.

3. Lol random chat room and chat in EXP pt is very different experience, you know it. Ppl in EXP chat because they need something to do while lving, and in Abyssea pt it lacks a sense of companionship to have a conversation going. Chat in random chat room is also very different, you often visit chat room with specific purpose with specific group of ppl. So you probably won't have a lot of chance to go to Chat room and find a bunch of EU or JP couldn't speak English very well....if you go to chat room and find foreigners, they probably come here to practice english and want to chat about a specific topic.

Chating with a bunch of companions you work with/play with, is also very different experience from going to a chat room which they're complete stranger with specific purpose.

Either way, the experience is different, it just is.


4. I agree that modern means dev figured out that many ppl liked that. But that's not everyone. I can say WoW is standard of today's Modern MMO, but if we want something modern, we can also go to WoW. Variety is spice of life. There are ppl liked modern design, and there are ppl still miss/love old games such as NES FF or mario, even though from today's standard those games are terrible.

I mean, sure they can make XI WoW all they want, but why not just play WoW to begin with?

And sure, you play games for fun, but there are different type of fun, that's my point. There are instant gratification fun, plenty of MMORPG I played are much faster paced, with more things to do while playing and everyday is new(but it got old fast). There are fun that doesn't seemed fun at first, but it grows on you and eventually become a memoriable experience, which I'd call it fun also. FFXI is such thing. I played many MMORPG that's more "modern" than XI, and in the end it's only XI that everytime I quit I come back. And I'm pretty sure if they make XI WoW to begin with, I wouldn't stay until now.

Everyone have different POV about fun, that's why we have different games with variety of genre and difficulties. Some ppl find Mario, which you die over and over again fun because it's challenging. Some ppl find it boring because you keep dying. You can't deny that when it comes to this arguement, there are no right or wrong. Just that because majority of the player can't beat Mario, doesn't make mario "wrong way to make games". "Modern" isn't necessary "right", and vice versa. FFXI is FFXI, WoW is WoW. Just because FFXI isn't WoW, doesn't mean Abyssea lovers have right to bash everything in old FFXI until it become WoW.

Is instant gratification good? Sure. But if every game is instant gratification, it's no longer fun. You can't fail to see this, that instant gratification isn't the only way to make a game fun. Just like nobody would want to eat same dish everyday.

[Arcon]

1. You sound like I'm the only one against Abyssea lving, but I'm not. There are voices that's against it for ages.

I did not make it sound like that, or at least I didn't mean to. I just said that's your opinion, and if you can't see why it does not apply to others, you lack imagination.


2. [..] I was comparing 6 man pt v.s Abyssea key leech pt. If both ways requires same amount of time to hit cap, there's no doubt old 6 person EXP pt is more fun than key leech or afk leech. [..]

That is completely inappropriate. You cannot compare these two at all, because that's not what's being compared. You have to compare 5h of old EXP with 30min of Abyssea EXP.


3. Lol random chat room and chat in EXP pt is very different experience, you know it. Ppl in EXP chat because they need something to do while lving [..],

(Because it's so horribly boring.)


[..] and in Abyssea pt it lacks a sense of companionship to have a conversation going. [..]

I would argue that was the same as old EXP. Can you give me a good reason why chatting in a Dom Ops party is inferior to chatting in an old EXP party? What was that inexplicable bond you had with EXP party members, that I obviously missed out on? Was it the arguing about game mechanics no one had a clue about, the bitching about people in the party who dragged down EXP gain for everyone, or random annoyances like people not having certain teleports or having to leave early without finding replacements, and things like that? It would just be nice to see an actual reason for why you think you can't have good conversations in a Dom Ops party. I mean, a real reason, not just:


Either way, the experience is different, it just is.

Finally, I want you to remember that people went afk in old parties as well. The difference was, the party kicked them, and either had to wait for a replacement to arrive, or just broke because they couldn't find a tank/healer/dd/etc. In Abyssea, on the other hand, the party keeps going, and the afk person is replaced when someone else needs a space. Unless you have a leader that just kicks afk people regardless, which is also fairly common. I found the "afking in Abyssea EXP" claims are often exaggerated in that regard.

[Afania]

That is completely inappropriate. You cannot compare these two at all, because that's not what's being compared. You have to compare 5h of old EXP with 30min of Abyssea EXP.



Then the real way to fix this is to keep 6 man EXP pt with faster EXP rate or more variety to get EXP, and reward players for chaining higher or gearing better. Not supporting Abyssea style EXPing.

I also don't think spending months to hit cap is a big deal, as long as the progress isn't meaningless. It only became a big deal when hitting cap is a progress to do real content, instead of the process of hitting cap is real content. Ppl want to hit cap ASAP because they want to do endgame for months(not like repeating endgame content for months or years is any different though)

However, the way Abyssea EXp pt goes, it renders the progress more meaningless.

Once again, in old 75 era, I made many friends while on the Joruney to 75, since it offers the feel of "we grow stronger together". I had plenty of cool experience traveling all over the world for different camp, and had fun with high WS dmg in bird camps. Is the joruney a bit too long? Maybe. But at least it has a meaning to it. This kind of experience doesn't exist in Abyssea era. In Abyssea lving is no longer a journey, but to get "another job to do endgame". That sense of getting stronger(probably with some friends on the way), is no longer there.

You're going to play a MMO for months anyways, what's the difference between spending months to experience lving up, and spending 1 week to lv up then rest of the months to do endgame(which is not much different from lving, all doing same thing over and over)

I already said a lot, if you still couldn't tell the difference and why some ppl do miss 6 person EXP pt, then nothing else I can say.

I'm not the only one who think old EXP pt isn't "wrong"(There's nothing right or wrong in terms of game design IMO), my social LS often receive application from returning players they came back to FFXI because they missed 6 person EXP pt, some never hit 75 at 75 era and never experience endgame, but miss old EXP pt regardless and came back for it. Surely there's a reason behind it.




I would argue that was the same as old EXP. Can you give me a good reason why chatting in a Dom Ops party is inferior to chatting in an old EXP party? What was that inexplicable bond you had with EXP party members, that I obviously missed out on?

Abyssea pt I'm referring to worms pt, not Dom Ops. I'm not into social study and maybe can't give you an accurate analyze why ppl in Abyssea pt chat less. But I'll try.

I don't think Abyssea pt is "inferior" to chatting in old EXP pt, but my observation is that ppl do chat less. Maybe because some goes semi afking more often than old EXP pt, maybe because Dom Ops pt pt member switch often, so you can't really develope a sense of companionship with your ally. Or maybe it's harder for entire ally of 18 ppl to chat than 6person. In old 6 person pt every member have to work harder or else EXP gain is shit, maybe that developed a sense of a team and makes everyone closer?

Either way, Abyssea pt just feels "different" from old 6 person EXP pt, that's my observation, no matter how you deny it. There are maybe 2 situations I can think of in this game that I can often get a chance to meet new players and work closely with them(work closely means everyone's performance really matters, not just like Abyssea pt). One is VW, especially harder ones like prov or B.rex before weakened item is out. Another one is old merit/EXP pt with 6 person. Everything else are about static or LS event.

[Demon6324236]

So far as the argument about Abyssea experience. It is basically impossible to make experience outside faster in a way that would really help leveling outside of Abyssea. To fast and you have to change camps every 30 minutes or less, you spend as much time fighting as you do moving to a new camp, take the DEP weekend we had, people out in areas like Qufim were getting 600~1000 experience a kill. At that rate, at that level, it was basically 1 level up every 5~8 kills. That speed means you are going from level 19(beginning Qufim worms) to 25(end of Pug Alley) in about a hour. The speed is insane, and at that, annoying, because you have to migrate to different camps much to often. No one wants to setup a camp out in the pond area of Qufim only to do 3 pages in a matter of 15 minutes just to move to pugs for 20 minutes, before having to goto yet another camp.

Abyssea experience may be a problem for some, but boosting experience outside is not even a real solution either due to how it works. If it were done, camp moving would be to frequent, and in all honesty I cant think of a way to fix that easily without redoing many of the areas and their monster layouts. Abyssea works as fast as it does because people at lower levels are not fighting, and those at higher levels have no need to leave, mobs spawn very fast, they never become too weak, and in the end you never need to move. The same can not be said of fighting outside of Abyssea, which is one of the biggest barriers between the two in the end, and one of the reasons it will be hard for old experience point parties to ever be as strong as Abyssea parties.

[Arcon]

Then the real way to fix this is to keep 6 man EXP pt with faster EXP rate or more variety to get EXP, and reward players for chaining higher or gearing better. Not supporting Abyssea style EXPing.

That would be perfectly acceptable. The EXP rate would have to be significantly higher than it is in Abyssea, though, to be competitive, because you still have to look for members, find a camp, hope no one else is there and then hope nothing else disturbs the party. I doubt it's possible with less than 1000 EXP per mob, and even then I'd be very doubtful.


I also don't think spending months to hit cap is a big deal, as long as the progress isn't meaningless.

Well said. Investing months is never a big deal, if there is some meaning to it. The problem is, for many people it is meaningless. For me, there is no meaning to old EXP. It was just wasting time. To you, it was content. To me, it was a hindrance blocking my access to content. It wasn't fun to me. I wasn't growing during EXP parties, my level was growing. I still didn't learn much about the game, because the actual game entails so many more things that EXP never even mentions. EXP was hitting mobs that were easy. You never had to deal with special TP moves, massive AoE attacks, timed and alternating stuns, applying BRD buffs in dangerous situations, crowd control, hate reset, high buff situations, MP conservation/restoration, dealing with massive debuffs, alliance team coordination, and so on.

In the end, EXP taught nothing. It was the same thing at 75 meriting as it was in the Dunes at 10. Melees hit things. Tanks provoke things. Mages cure things, and if they're really advanced, haste things. When MP runs out, rest. Rinse, repeat. You didn't grow with EXP. You grew while playing the game for real. EXP was just preparation for that.


You're going to play a MMO for months anyways, what's the difference between spending months to experience lving up, and spending 1 week to lv up then rest of the months to do endgame(which is not much different from lving, all doing same thing over and over)

One is fun, the other isn't. That's all there is to it. If you enjoyed it, good for you, and there are many others who claim the same thing. But there are just as many, if not more, who say the exact opposite. Even I thought it was exciting, the first time I did it. Maybe even the second and third. But a week after, I had no patience for it anymore. And why should I? Why should I tolerate something that wastes my time for no gain? Just to chat with people? (And that wasn't nearly as pleasant as you make it out to be.)

For the record, I have no problem with your opinion. But I do have a problem with your attitude, because you make it sound like we're shallow for not wanting to waste our time like that and that we're just in it for quick fun and not for great experiences. And while I can't speak for others, for me nothing is further from the truth. I enjoy meaning in my games, but EXP never provided any. Other events did. It's as simple as that.

[Luvbunny]

Afania, there are a lot of small parties set up activities at endgame that still requires a group of 3-6 people to be somewhat skilled at what they do and know their jobs properly to advance. Basically those replace the old school xp grind set up. But these events will not tolerate people who level up jobs but never take the time to test drive said jobs to fully understand what it can do. Some events are a bit easier at first but it gets progressively harder later on.

As Arcon has mentioned, you do not really learn useful stuffs in exp party since you are ill prepared for the end game content. You learn a lot more in abyssea seal hunting party or dual boxing than your old school exp party. Dual boxing force you to pay attention and have good macro or shit will hit the fan rather fast if you are slow and still trying to find the spells manually while your other character HP is in the red and about to get hit with TP moves that goes through shadow. Abyssea also prepared you for the bigger more varied battle to come. Most of the newer events are also about utilizing temp items at the right moments. And work together to trigger weakness. Completing objectives, etc.

By the way you can still chat on abyssea party if you are feeling social, plenty of people still love to do that, and a few will escalate into heated arguments over silly things :). I am sure you can find people who still love doing it old school, but the way the game works now is no longer about grinding for xp as contents. It's about grinding all these end game activities to gear up your job and other jobs. There are TONS of activities. If only people can just leave abyssea content and do other stuffs.... Walk of Echoes which can be spammed, is pretty much neglected, even if the rewards are pretty good, and some can be sold for millions at AH. Meeble Burrow are also somewhat neglected. The casual are slow in adapting and digesting contents. Seems like they are now just finally on doing Voidwatch which is also a rather old content, 2011-2012 to be exact. Tons of BCNM old and new, yet you can barely find anyone who is aware of these. Abyssea is one thing of the many contents and activities you can do in the game :P

[Afania]

For the record, I have no problem with your opinion. But I do have a problem with your attitude, because you make it sound like we're shallow for not wanting to waste our time like that and that we're just in it for quick fun and not for great experiences. And while I can't speak for others, for me nothing is further from the truth. I enjoy meaning in my games, but EXP never provided any. Other events did. It's as simple as that.

Because previous post I replied was offensive first. Sounds like if you liked 6 person pt you're dumb because Abyssea pt is superior and faster. It does sound like hitting lv cap fast is the best way to go, which I don't agree with(nor I agree that hitting cap this fast is fun). Note that a lot of "modern" MMORPG also doesn't hit cap as fast as Abyssea. I still failed to see how this is justified. I just give another side of opinion, that if someone likes old 6 person EXP pt, it has a reason behind it.

I simply just pointed out that a lot of "fun"(that's not instant gratification) some ppl may missed while playing. When I started FFXI I think compare with WoW this game is shit and outdated, using game critic's standard, and everytime when I started a newer MMO I looked back and said omg how outdated FFXI is, but after years of playing I realized FFXI does offers experience that I don't get to experience in other games, mostly came from so called "outdated designs". If it sounds offsensive, I apologize. But IMO sometimes try to find different kind of fun that doesn't exist in other games isn't a bad way to enjoy games.

Endgame event may be fun, but majority of endgame event that's not VW I play with close friends or LSmate. I do salvage, Nyzul, meeble, Abyssea with a static and ein/ZNM/dyna at 75 with a LS. I join Abyssea pt but most of the pt member come and go, or semi afk, there really isn't much to interact with. It doesn't provide an opportunity for me to know new ppl. Old 6 person pt and harder VW(like rex before weakened item release or Prov) is really the only event I can think of atm that really allowed myself to pt with strangers everytime and make new friends while doing it. Other events I either have little interaction because it's fast and easy, and job/performance etc is irrelevant. Or do it with a static or gtfo, on top of nobody want to do with a /shout pt. 6 person pt shouldn't be bashed this fast IMO.



Afania, there are a lot of small parties set up activities at endgame that still requires a group of 3-6 people to be somewhat skilled at what they do and know their jobs properly to advance. Basically those replace the old school xp grind set up.

They feel different though. Lowman content like Meeble/salvage/NNI is much more intense than EXPing. You don't really chat with pt memebers.....you talk in /p chat, such as "Kill this" "Buff" "pro/shell". But ppl rarely say this "I'm listening to star war music atm, and I want to watch star wars trilogy again, episode 5 is classic!" Or something like that. One of the dunes pt I joined, that lasted for 4 hour, pt chat about star wars, real life business etc for hours, in the end nobody wants to disband, not because EXP/hour is awesome, but because everyone was having fun socializing. It's been many years I been to that pt, but I still remember it(and some other pts I really have fun to be in it for same reason)

And this simply just won't happen in lowman events nor Abyssea pt(idk why it wouldn't happen in Abyssea though). It happens in ls chat only, but your LS connection is mostly the same, unlike EXP pt that you can expand your connections. You also most likely would pt with same person for meeble/nyzul etc, so your connections won't expand. You probably rarely go "I wonder who I will pt with today in Nyzul" isn't it?

[Luvbunny]

Afanie, you can actually do abyssea party with 6 people or more if you are aiming for merit, and can bring a few leech from your LS to chit chat. Typically a well geared party can finish a page around 2 mnts, assuming each members can kill 1 mob around 1 minutes, which should be doable in abyssea with the right atma. Another option is if you are farming for AF3 feet, a good cleave party with blue, blm, whm, war, thief, and bard can work wonder if you want variety. 2 blue, blm, summoner or corsair can work as well. There are tons of easy cleave, charged whiskers, aeolian edge party set up that does not need more than 6. You can work for KI, pop items, augmented gears to sell, AF3 feet, etc.. It will still feel like old school, you can still chat, but with a lot less stress due to atma boost, and a whole lot of things to be gained. Which is exactly what the pro Abyssea people trying to get across. Abyssea is great, very well designed, but extremely weak to being abused, and hey, who does not want short cut lol. Another idea is to do FoV party in Sky and farm those clusters, you will need it for those new warp point for SoA.

I met so many random people in Abyssea, joining forces farming seals, etc... In general most people are incline to work together and make small talk if you do the same. We are all human after all, and we seek to socialize. But it is not just abyssea, you should try Walk of Echoes and grab a few people if possible or join the WoE shouts. Those are somewhat relaxed set up but also fun watching people get killed right and left :)

You are right that FFXI offers what most modern online RPG does not which is social aspect, still pretty strong here even with all these changes. As much as the game offer more solo friendly content, they still have a lot more contents that are geared for small party or alliance set up and encourage that you bond with others to get a lot of things done. And a lot can be done fast with a group of people who know what they are doing. That's what set this game apart than WoW, where it is fast to get a party for dungeon but you will never see any of them after it's done, absolutely mindless grind with no connection with others who play with you. The only social aspect is through your guild.

[Camiie]

What I don't get is this assumption that all people do in Abyssea is leech. I'm always as active as possible in worm parties and Dom-Ops and I'm hardly the only one. Mobs are dying left and right and people are chatting and having a good time. How is that so markedly different from ye olde XP party?

[Umichi]

While i do admit abyssea is terribad it's only maor flaw that makes it terribad for me is the allowance of level 31+ players into the zones which at a minimum are tailored for lvl 60+. other than that the system works out pretty well for allowing people to gear up and level (which was the creators intention)

[Demon6324236]

What I don't get is this assumption that all people do in Abyssea is leech. I'm always as active as possible in worm parties and Dom-Ops and I'm hardly the only one. Mobs are dying left and right and people are chatting and having a good time. How is that so markedly different from ye olde XP party?Peoples experiences vary. I admit, I have seen many slow and silent worm parties as of late when I needed to join them, many of which had a few afk people that were there for upward of a hour with fools for leaders who would not kick. That kind of thing does make Abyssea suck for people. At the same time, I have seen very lively and fast worm parties, with no one afk for more than 10 minutes unless for obvious reasons and smart leaders who kicked anyone who deserved it by leeching*. People who want old parties often seem to either have had bad experiences with Abyssea or simply ignore the good experiences in parties as to make old parties sound better. I would like to say though that I am not saying this is such a case, I have not paid enough attention to the previous posts.

*I would like to say that my version of leeching may be different than anyone who reads this. My opinion on leeching is anyone who is in no real way contributing to the party. This can be served in a number of ways, in FCs its via payment, in experience point parties, you can do it through keying or fighting. There are limits though, if there are 4 keyers in worms, 2 or 3 are leeches, as there is never a need for more than 1 or at most 2. But if you are keying, I do not think of you as really leeching, because you are contributing in some form, real leechers are those who sit in a corner afk for hours on end who did absolutely nothing to earn their experience.

[Afania]

What I don't get is this assumption that all people do in Abyssea is leech. I'm always as active as possible in worm parties and Dom-Ops and I'm hardly the only one. Mobs are dying left and right and people are chatting and having a good time. How is that so markedly different from ye olde XP party?

Not all, or else pt can't keep going XD. But from what I've seen, ppl afk more often and often afk for very long time. Majority of worms pt I went to there are always at least 1/3 of ally afking. Some ppl just fight for a while then go afk, then leaders kick them for rep, so alliance members changes often.

Dom-Ops 2 year ago was a bit better than worms pt, there were a bit more interaction. When I got my arma there weren't many arma on entire server cuz I finished it pretty early compare with entire FFXI community, and I went to a Dom-Ops pt to play with WF, it's high dmg started quite a bit of discussion in the ally because most players never seen WF at that time. That's when Dom-Ops pt was still pretty new and still fairly close to old EXP pt though, you can often see "elite" DDs in ally at that time, much like pink bird merit pt, unlike now many ppl go half naked. Recent Abyssea worms pt I've been to it's down right boring. As if lving a job is just a process to get rid of.

I agree that when Abyssea pt was out(and EXP/hr wasn't as good as it is now), it was still fairly close to old EXP pt. I still remember one of my 1st Abyssea pt, which was very different from current Abyssea pt, ppl built lights, work together as a team, pull mobs, sleep adds etc, and we had different camps, unlike now it's always same old worm camp. Now in worms pt you probably only interact when NM popped, lol. I'm not against faster EXP/hr, but how current worms pt works, it's just terrible, not just because ppl don't chat, but also because there are less incentive to push players to manage your job better(inb4 someone claim fighting in EXP pt is different from EG content again. Some things like efficient MP management for mages will never change.), which makes the process of lving up less fun. You can always learn efficient MP management when you hit cap and do events, but that makes the process of lving fairly meaningless, even if it lasts shorter.

[fernando]

Well i just wanted to get my two cents in,so here go's..I hate abby really, like VNM hunting (colorless souls)!!
The other content like +2 items and such is fairly easy as long as you can proc,but there is so much that others are still spaming that just plan piss you off,like VNM's, why the long ass waits? cant break abbysite, and like with Vermilion it breaks after pop then have to start all over, and thats imo just a time sink,it dont make it hard just serves to piss you off even more.

[Rustic]

You so totally want 4hr+ kings camps. Waiting hours and hours standing around doing absolutely nothing and hoping that you get claim. Of course "getting claim" wasn't even about skill but who could collect the most money from their shell.

But hey we're just using rose colored lenses to justify wanting to walk bass ackwards.

Heh. I didn't even do -those- back when it was ToAU-era. I'd rather have more stuff that simply could not be 2-manned. It's S-E, some level of entry restriction is going to happen if we did...but seriously, Kings and Tiamat and other forms of staring at darters in their multitude? No. Now, you make it so one HNM death spawns another HNM somewhere else -randomly- in a world-trotting journey that can't be endlessly camped by one group? Go for it. Waiting for a pop window every 24-72+ hours? No. Hell naw.

[Luvbunny]

This abyssea still not dead - again, Gukumatz and Heqet have to be the most popular belle of the ball, apparently camped and botted 24/7 by a group of mercenaries. Almost 3 years since its first introduction, and still people flocking the abyssea areas day and night nonstop for whatever reasons.... Voidwatch, Legion, Meeble Burrow, Neo Limbus-Einherjar-Salvage-Nyzul all fail miserably to syphon people's interest from abyssea, what gives???? Do SE need to start handing out free gears to get people to stop going to Misareux Coast, granted the most popular zone for some reasons... I really truly hope SE brings the biggest baddest most grandest expansion with SoA, one that will finally put the nail in the coffin to abyssea and drive everyone out to explore new continents. It would be quite sad if the new expansion offers us sidegrade gears and pretty much there to give us 2 new jobs but hardly anything worth doing and 2 years from now, people still doing abyssea. Just as ToAU managed to kill CoP, I hope SoA will kill Abyssea and set us all free :)

[Demon6324236]

Problem is Abyssea offers the easiest awesome gear available to players new and old, there is no reason to not go to Abyssea. Unless Seekers has gear so overpowered it out dates everything from Abyssea and is easier to get, Abyssea will be going strong for a very long time to come.

[Luvbunny]

LOL then there is something seriously wrong over there if a proper official expansion cannot beat the add ons based on content from 2003-2007 expansions..... SoA has to revolutionize the game play similar to how Abyssea pretty much gave us a shock to the system and destroyed the old ways. Even if it is not a major, it has to evolve the game, similar how Voidwatch and Meeble is an evolution of Abyssea, and to some extent Neo Dynamis as well. The last grand expansion that evolved the game was ToAU, to the point that it rendered Jeuno as a ghost town and everyone else moved and never look back. WoTG failed in all fronts when it comes to give us alternative, campaign was a half baked idea that they never bother to resolve (even with suggestions pouring in the last two years alone). Walk of Echoes is completely ignored by everyone but the japanese players, and no matter what they did (which is rather minimal) - SE could not drum any interest for players to try WoE. Even Meeble Burrows is met with rather tepid reception, a big portion of the players have not even try this, a content that was released 4-5 months ago. Voidwatch which was released from 2011-mid 2012 is finally catching up, you see more shouts but pretty much 80% of them focusing on a few NMs. SE does not bother readjusting or revamping the other tier within VW to give people more reasons to go back and do it. Instead we get the same 6-8 NMs shout every single night :)

I mean, it would be very sad when you get the expansion, and within a week, Adoulin will become a ghost town, apart from unlocking two new jobs, there is no reason to stay there and do anything in the new areas (remember WoTG???). If this expansion cannot even touch the grand design of Abyssea... I don't know what else will be able to kill it lol. Might as well drop the rest of the expansions, since clearly, FFXI now is Abyssea edition only. You cannot get them out of Abyssea, a three years old content :)

[Demon6324236]

Well you see the problem is they made the Abyssea gear so good its hard for them to beat it without being overpowered. For instance, the WAR AF3+2 legs. 5% Double Attack, 7% Haste, those two stats alone are amazing, it is hard for a pair of legs to beat those for TPing. But its not only the quality of gear, but the ease of obtainment. How broken would SoA be if it was easier than Abyssea but had better gear? Thats the only way Abyssea would die down, seals and +2s are simple and easy to get, their stats are often awesome, so unless SoA can provide better gear with equal or less effort, people will still goto Abyssea for their basic gear till they get the better stuff.

[saevel]

I have yet to see the issue here ...

Abyssea gear offers a baseline gear set for players. It's relatively easy to obtain and allows a player to be capable of joining groups and doing events without forever to gear a job. No 5/5 is the best, they all offer various pieces that mix well with gear acquired through other events.

[Sapphire]

This abyssea still not dead - again, Gukumatz and Heqet have to be the most popular belle of the ball, apparently camped and botted 24/7 by a group of mercenaries.

As long as someone out there wants a Kannagi - and there will always be someone, Guku will be camped. End of story.

[Arcon]

I have yet to see the issue here ...

The issue is that Luvbunny loves Abyssea a lot and wants it all to themselves. Now they're making pointless posts trying to be sarcastic.

Which is ironic, because no one does Abyssea anymore. They already do have it all to themselves. The occasional party camping Gukumatz is not evidence of Abyssea crowding. That's like saying sky is crowded because you went there once and someone was doing Genbu so you had to wait five minutes to get to the isle. As was said before, someone will always want something in there, just like I'm sure people will always want to EXP in there. That doesn't mean it's crowded or that it isn't dead, which it pretty much is at this point. If you want a new empyrean, you go in there for a few days and go out again. That's not "active" content. Dynamis is more active than Abyssea.

[saevel]

Well to "fix" the problem we could make all those zones open PvP areas. Would let the hordes of azure underwear peoples get their 1337 fix by running around griefing newbies or people leveling jobs.

Hey you guys demanded a PvP system, there you go.

[Horadrim]

The issue is that Luvbunny loves Abyssea a lot and wants it all to themselves. Now they're making pointless posts trying to be sarcastic.

Which is ironic, because no one does Abyssea anymore. They already do have it all to themselves. The occasional party camping Gukumatz is not evidence of Abyssea crowding. That's like saying sky is crowded because you went there once and someone was doing Genbu so you had to wait five minutes to get to the isle. As was said before, someone will always want something in there, just like I'm sure people will always want to EXP in there. That doesn't mean it's crowded or that it isn't dead, which it pretty much is at this point. If you want a new empyrean, you go in there for a few days and go out again. That's not "active" content. Dynamis is more active than Abyssea.

They really, really don't.

I'm back to having to shout bomb to build overly large parties of people who haven't finished stuff to get things done -- which reminds me a lot of the CoP days, lol.

I don't see the problem with Abyssea -- arguably its a very logical direction for the game to have moved, I just hate that you have to trigger everything. It's easier since I have discernment now, but the fact that some jobs get completely left out of usefulness: (PLD, DRG, PUP) is a bit annoying.

I just hope Adoulin and its updates helps PLD and PUP. I've decied I'm forgoing leveling GEO/RUN (for a while anyway) until I get all PUP +2 and my Empy weapon, plus capped merits.