For those who keep resurrecting that dead topic....

[Faustenin]

"Stop living in the past"
"Not this thread again"
"FFXI is 20 times better than it was before!"
"Lol, nostalgia is a funny thing"

Yet for those of us who really, know for a fact that pretty much everything about FFXI has pretty much been destroyed in the last few years, from the sense of progression, the now barely-existent community.
No more mystery, exploration, challenge, team coordination; topped off with the fact that the sheer mentioning of this simple fact brings forth droves of people complacent with the virtual chatroom they're paying for.
Lets all just make a mass exodus and find a new MMO to hop over to.
SE is too busy catering to this crowd, and really don't give a damn about us, which seems to be a minority of no real weight in comparison to the GoV hordes.

Whaddya say?
Rekindle that feeling of exploration and challenge with searching for new frontiers, I know I am.

To those who are aching to flame me in a weird quest for self-validation of your opinions, rest assured I'm not posting this to argue with you guys. Nor am I going around bashing FFXI for the sake of being an angry old man, babbling about dem good ole' days. I miss FFXI of old for well, the reasons those of us who do have stated countless times to your apathetic ears. (Well, since this is a forum, eyes.)

More so, I'd like to see how other people feel about just simply finding a new world to be a part of, and if so, which one?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2s9NdWjmbXk/TuwHpnlMRCI/AAAAAAAARJI/rRqpU4sJ6h4/s1600/journey-game-screenshot-10.jpg

(Pic added because I think it generally summarizes the feel of what I'm trying to express.)

[hiko]

No more mystery, exploration/........./

More so, I'd like to see how other people feel about just simply finding a new world to be a part of, and if so, which one?


I will explore and be part of adoulin!

[Faustenin]

I will explore and be part of adoulin!
I want to be excited about Adoulin, I really do.
But I have a nagging fear that withing a week/month everything is going to pretty much be all over wiki, and not using the wiki will be a mortal sin in the eyes of mission do-ers everywhere.

[Arcon]

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish. Trying to rally people on a game's forum to quit the game and play another? If it was friends, I'd understand, but mostly strangers? You already called it, people will look at this as merely another angry player raging over how SE hurt their feelings, because that's simply all it is.

Many miss the old days, including me. But they're gone, and won't come back. Moving on can either mean trying a new game (which you're welcome to do) or trying to enjoy the new FFXI. But you're not one to dictate either, and posting something like this just makes you seem childish and unable to control your feelings about the issue.

[Faustenin]

Not so much a rally to quit, but I guess a note those of us to stop fueling the arguments by creating more topics about how much we miss it.
I'm in an insomnia fit at the moment, so words and me arent exactly being chummy, but in essence "FFXI wont change back, dont expect it to. I'm moving on, lets all just move on."
Most of us are unhappy being here the way it is now, and clinging to the past we hope that some day the glory days of FFXI will come back.
Rather than stay here and whine, I'm saying lets just accept what FFXI is and leave if it's so annoying for us.

[Mirage]

I want to be excited about Adoulin, I really do.
But I have a nagging fear that withing a week/month everything is going to pretty much be all over wiki, and not using the wiki will be a mortal sin in the eyes of mission do-ers everywhere.

You're complaining about a wiki site spoiling your exploration? Just don't use it. Do the parts that doesn't require a party the way you want, then team up for the fights after you've already figured out what to do.

Every game has a wiki/gamefaqs, online or not. If you let the existence of this spoil your fun, then maybe the problem really lies with you.

And just for the record, I've played since 2004 and I have few problems with the current FF11. The few problems I do have are outweighted by the good things that have been added and changed. I could list what I dislike, but I feel that everyone who cares about what I think already knows.

[Karbuncle]

Well, This game is better than it used to be, By significant leaps and bounds. I've been playing since NA beta, I've experienced and loved this game significantly for the ~8 Years or So I've played it, But that being said, While i have very very fond memories of my time then, doing Final Promathia fight, Promyvions Climbs, All of CoP in general... Divine Might, so on and so forth... The game was fun, I don't deny that.

But Endgame as a whole sucked, 2-20~+ Hour Random Spawn Ullikummi? All good gear coming from 21-24 Hour Repop HNMs that were camped and Botted By 5+ LSs' daily... It sucked all the way up to CoP in regards to anything but Exploring and the "New MMO Smell". Once ToAU came around and Nyzul/Salvage came, Endgame became less about "Bots" and more about Low drops rates, But i considered that an improvement. Then Einherjar, Which was lovely.

The game has progressively gotten much better since its launch, Abyssea is no different. It changed a lot, Some for good, Some for worse, But in the end, I had a lot of fun with Abyssea too, even though it was mostly a Battle Content Update.

The reason the game is "Stale" and "No exploration or excitement", is because its ten years old and You've been playing it for about that long! - Of course the Exploration and mystery is gone when you've explored every Nook and fking Cranny of the game! - If you played Skyrim for 10 years I'm sure You'd discover every single nuance too. Sheesh!

The only reason, only, some people think Old school used to be better is because of wonderful deep rose tented glasses. Its Nostalgia, nothing else. Maybe some of you are remembering your old LS Friends, Maybe some of you are remembering doing CoP mission, regardless of the memories, its nostalgia. The game has gotten progressively better since launch, I think the only major recent setback was voidwatch Drop rates - Those can suck a dong. Outside of that, I think the game was always in a steady, uphill enjoyability factor for the average population.

I hate using this phrase, But honestly, Those wanting it to go back to the way it was are a minority, and those are the ones who can't grasp the concept of Nostalgia and refuse to understand even if FFXI Went back to exactly how it was in 2004-2005, They wouldn't enjoy it anymore, Because what they're remembering will never come back to them, That new MMO feeling, the new worlds... Nothings going to make Crawler's Nest look more exciting, Nothing's going to make Bohyada tree this big mysterious place... Nothing is going to Wipe your memory and let you start fresh.

So, Am i agreeing or disagreeing with the OP? A little of both. People need to let it go and move on, but people also need to realise nothing about 2004-2007 FFXI is better than 2012 FFXI. Not a d**n thing.

That being said, I did T1~T3 Jeuno Climbs today and had a blast talking to my Alliance, Getting to know eachother, Kicking ass and having fun. It was true fun, Made 2-3 New friends, and Enjoyed every moment of it. We were joking around like 10 year long bar buddies. - So at least if you try, the fun socialization is still there.

[Camiie]

Lets all just make a mass exodus and find a new MMO to hop over to.

Try:

Everquest: http://www.everquest.com/

Ultima Online: http://www.uoherald.com/

Asheron's Call: http://ac.turbine.com/

These MMOs are all really old, so they may be just what you're looking for.

[Mooshywooshy]

Well.. the old game is still in there. Ive played since 2004 and havent completed RoZ, CoP, ToAU, WoTG, or any of the add-ons. I was busy doing..other stuff with the game. Only thing you cant get back is the old community. It is currently filled with people who know it all, because.. they literally know it all.

Everything is very precise these days. Everything must be done in the best possible way with the best equipment in the best time or else its not worth peoples time. And honestly it shouldnt be held against them. People have done all the expansions and more, thus I dont feel they should go out of the way to help me anymore.

Sure I feel lots of the time the current community is very cold and unwelcoming, but its to be expected. It takes a lot of time to live up to the current standards set in the community as acceptable. If you're not that big into doing that stuff, then you cant hold it against others if they want to.

People might think im a noob, but its pretty true. I could tell you more than anyone about the structure of the game and how things technically work, but ask me how a Shinryu is beaten... my best answer is "I heard you drink some kind of orange juice and hit it with a sword"

I guess im just trying to say, if you look hard enough, you'll find people like yourself who enjoyed and miss the old days. Not eeeverybody is 1337prohax. You can still have fun with them and possibly do things you havent done.

As for Adoulin, yeah wiki will have everything in a day or 2, but thats how its basically always been. I remember looking up how to do the promys on release on wiki, doesnt take away from the awe of new things (at least for me), it just helps so you arent wandering around for days after you finish a mission where the npc tells you some cryptic message that you have no idea what it means, and it ends up "Find the one who can cast your shadows into the annals of time" meant "Talk to this baby taru standing next to me lul"

[Meyi]

Mooshy I love you, haha!

Arcon and Karbuncle bring up amazing points too.

Really, the magic is gone because the game has been so thoroughly explored there's nothing left to awe us. When the game first came out, every new zone was fresh and majestic. I remember hating San d'Oria because it wasn't Bastok and was therefore the enemy. Or visiting Jeuno for the first time. Collecting airship keys with 16 other people because we were too weak to solo them. Took days, really. Or how about visiting the Shadow Lord for the first time?

I personally enjoy having knowledge of the game now. Yes, it has taken a lot of the shiny sparkle sensation away, but I feel... more confident with the game. I'm no longer foolishly trying to find my way through the dark.

This game is like a relationship. The initial happy, breath being taken away and quivering knees phase is gone. It's been replaced with a strong admiration and appreciation bond. The romance has died but we can't leave it because it's too familiar to us. I won't dump Vana'diel just because I know every freckle on her body -- I love her too much and enjoy the pleasure she gives me when I visit.

[Suteru]

As someone who has played since 2003, the game sucked back then. Spending hours and hours in sky for stuff you'll never get to lot on, hours in Dynamis for drops you'll never see. Spending millions of gil on CCB pumps, taking 15 tries to beat a single mission. You want the old ways back? Fine. Do Legion. Do Neo-Einherjar. Say people won't accept you because you're not well geared enough or have the right job? Guess what: It's that much easier to gear up.

I quit before Abyssea because I never got anything done, because of how terrible endgame was back then. I find the game so much more enjoyable at 99 now that I can enjoy things with a few people in a shout. And people whine about gilsellers selling spots to leech, would you rather have them competing with you in sky or undercutting the legitimate crafters at the AH?

Face it, the game is better now than it has ever been. Take off the rose-tinted shades.

[Sp1cyryan]

"Stop living in the past"
"Not this thread again"
"FFXI is 20 times better than it was before!"
"Lol, nostalgia is a funny thing"

Yet for those of us who really, know for a fact that pretty much everything about FFXI has pretty much been destroyed in the last few years, from the sense of progression, the now barely-existent community.
No more mystery, exploration, challenge, team coordination; topped off with the fact that the sheer mentioning of this simple fact brings forth droves of people complacent with the virtual chatroom they're paying for.
Lets all just make a mass exodus and find a new MMO to hop over to.
SE is too busy catering to this crowd, and really don't give a damn about us, which seems to be a minority of no real weight in comparison to the GoV hordes.

Whaddya say?
Rekindle that feeling of exploration and challenge with searching for new frontiers, I know I am.

To those who are aching to flame me in a weird quest for self-validation of your opinions, rest assured I'm not posting this to argue with you guys. Nor am I going around bashing FFXI for the sake of being an angry old man, babbling about dem good ole' days. I miss FFXI of old for well, the reasons those of us who do have stated countless times to your apathetic ears. (Well, since this is a forum, eyes.)

More so, I'd like to see how other people feel about just simply finding a new world to be a part of, and if so, which one?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2s9NdWjmbXk/TuwHpnlMRCI/AAAAAAAARJI/rRqpU4sJ6h4/s1600/journey-game-screenshot-10.jpg

(Pic added because I think it generally summarizes the feel of what I'm trying to express.)

Save some of those Q's for the alphabet buddy.

Your game is there and all you need to do is find it.

[Mirabelle]

Can we create a server for all these nostalgia freaks. Cap it at 75. Make them do only preToAU endgame. Then all 20 of them can be quiet and let the devs really work on revitalizing the game with new stuff, not dreary old school stuff.

[Mooshywooshy]

Can we create a server for all these nostalgia freaks. Cap it at 75. Make them do only preToAU endgame. Then all 20 of them can be quiet and let the devs really work on revitalizing the game with new stuff, not dreary old school stuff.

Im not a huge nostalgia freak but can I still join the server? That sounds amazing D:
I'd replace the theme music with the theme from Cheers and hopefully they'd just turn on worldchat.
Then if the 10 JPs were all "JP PT ONLY" to the 10 NA/EU we could be all "Hey man lets just get along" and theyd be all ... aiiight.

We could meet up in Lufaise and have picnics in our AF1, talk about the grand times we had collecting Fetich pieces, set up our next uhhh whatever that boss of Skys name is runs.

Then we could all meet up in real life and find out we're all dudes playing as mithra, and log back on later and it'd be all awkward. It would be

amazing

[Karbuncle]

You crazy Moosh ;o

[Faustenin]

Then we could all meet up in real life and find out we're all dudes playing as mithra, and log back on later and it'd be all awkward. It would be

amazing

You know, nostalgia is better when you remember the better parts dammit.

People seem to be citing me more for not liking the new FFXI, etc etc. But are neglecting the essence of what I was trying to say with this post.
This isnt me complaining about the new XI. Am I unhappy? Yeah, we've all been over that topic.
This topic is meant more for those of us who are dissatisfied, and simply trying to say "You're obviously unhappy here, but it's not going to change to suit your tastes, stop bickering and arguing, and just find something better."

If you don't like a restaurant, are you going to keep eating there and complaining about how the cooks cant properly temp your steaks? No.
You give it a few shots, and if it still cant satisfy you, stop eating there.

[Ragmar]

Gimps love new FFXI because of easy mode (HP/MP/stat buffs, atma/atmacite, temp items (fools/fanatics), brews, VW weakening items, Embrava, weakness triggering which stuns the mob for 30 sec and can be repeated indefinately refilling temps allowing you to completely negate one form of damage type or another. I mean at 75 we got a TP wing ... with a 30 min medicated effect that made it so you could not use another. Um we had potions ... think vile elixer +1 was best at 75? 300 HP/MP isnt it? Rare mind you so you can only hold one, rare also in that they were not readily available and nothing to put them right back into your invintory. Our absolute best buffs were from BRD 2hr. HNM didnt pop and give you 20 temp items which were refilled every 30-60 seconds. Show me a post abyssea mage who has true gear sets for Idle/HMP/precast/fast cast/potency/accuracy/convert/devotion/sublimation/healing skill (even knows the difference between potency and accuracy and where each applies). Show me 1 and I'll show you 100 who have an idle and cure/nuke set at best.

At 75 cap it wasnt just 5% of the server who really understood their jobs and the game like it is now. HNM(only challenge was getting claim)/Limbus/Sky/Sea/Ein/Dyna/ZNM/Nyzul/Salvage were all easy there is no doubt, but it wasn't easy for everyone. There were plenty of gimps at 75 cap. The difference is they didnt make progress. They either learned or stayed gimp unless they were being carried by an LS leader. You didnt see relics running around in RSE like you do now with empy NINs in pink. I never saw a lvl 75 Apoc DRK in the lusaint hauberk set. I do now in perle. There was a serious difference between a good SAM at 75 and a bandwagoned SAM. You werent even getting an invite to an event at 75 if you werent geared to a certain standard that was much higher than todays.

Gimps will read this and disagree, thats ok the game has become designed for you. You should enjoy it. I enjoy it because I can help my friends and dont need 17 others to get them good gear (capped haste sets with AF3+2 atleast and decent WS sets). I can grab 3-4 buddies and we can make empyreans with ease. Every now and then I run accross a noob who knows they're a noob and I get to help and teach them instead of having to watch them struggle to do things in an alliance my buddies and I can trio.

[Ragmar]

Bottom line though it isnt about nostalgia (I got off on a tanget there).

[Karbuncle]

I don't feel like its worth going into detail, I can tell you're Pants-On-Head at this point because your opening sentence seems implies anyone who likes new FFXI is a gimp, Or that somehow terrible gimps didn't exist at 75. (There's about 11 Threads on BG that beg to differ)

Which means it would be like shouting at a wall if i tried to pick that apart, and the RL Card would probably be used somewhere in the third reply.

[vienne]

I miss the old days. While i can live with the changes contentwise, i have more problems with the community change. i miss doing big events with a dedicated ls. although i've never had alot of free time to explore everything in this game, every week i looked forward to doing dyna and jar with the shell, and seeing arcon die 15 times during one run :p working together towards one goal, be it for me or for someone else in the shell, thats what i miss.
changing MMO's isnt an option for me, i'm sure the problems people think to have on here will be the same in other MMO's. think i'll just wait it out and keep my hopes up that SE will add some content which suits me.

[Ragmar]

Couple quotes from Karbuncle~

The only reason, only, some people think Old school used to be better is because of wonderful deep rose tented glasses. Its Nostalgia, nothing else. Maybe some of you are remembering your old LS Friends, Maybe some of you are remembering doing CoP mission, regardless of the memories, its nostalgia.

Those wanting it to go back to the way it was are a minority, and those are the ones who can't grasp the concept of Nostalgia

~Yeah I'm the one with a pants on head attitude. IF YOU LIKE OLD SCHOOL FFXI IT CAN ONLY BE BECAUSE OF NOSTALGIA!!!

Fact is fact. You dont see the majority of old school FFXI elite players on here begging for more easy buttons. You do however see the majority of those who were deemed gimp at 75 cap here praising/begging for more easy button madness. Yes gimps were everywhere at 75 cap but the percentage of lvl 75 gimps that were rocking relics and other top notch end game gear was MUCH smaller than todays numbers. I dont expect a lot of people to agree because there just arent that many veterans left. BG's idea of gimp isnt my standard by any means. I expect far less than the perfect augments for the perfect sets in any situation lol. But yeah using victory rings at 99 when flame are less than 100k ... gimp. Using 4/5 perle with a random haste piece like dusk hands/feet or walmart head totalling less haste than 5/5 perle ... gimp. Yeah there were some people using askar head at 75 but it wasnt the norm.

TLDR: It's not about nostalgia it's more about the frustration that if you throw a rock in jeuno you're going to hit more F'tarded gimps than you will even moderately well geared players let alone elite properly geared players. Then when you try to give these people a chance in say a VW pick up they fail in every aspect of their job. WARs without even raging rush thinking they are ready for VW. Can you think of a time at 75 cap where you did an event considered end game with someone who had less than half their main weapons skill lvls ... I bet you cant.

[Luvbunny]

LOL - another thread about nostalgia yet again.... Sorry but the game is like 10 times better now than it used to be. Fun, accessible, and enjoyable. They finally focus the grind on end game and less of a chore to level. Now you don't need to spend hours and hours to get things done. Traveling time has been cut down tremendously. You no longer need the help of many people just to get simple things done. Most missions can be done solo or trio at most. Voidwatch is no longer LS events exclusive but random shouts - quick to set up, and you can make the battle last 5 mnts with displacer. Dynamis is no longer LS exclusive, you can solo. Even making empy weapon is not as bad as it was before. The game is going to the right direction, let's hope it will become even easier, enjoyable and more casual friendly than ever before. I mean seriously, this is just a game, something to waste your time and relax, no need to make it such a big deal like you have to accomplish greater challenge etc... Nobody has time to dedicate playing video games, which bears no real value other than pure entertainment. Not everyone has no jobs and no life other than playing video games 24/7.

[Mirage]

Good thing that you guys who are missing the old school hardcore stuff now have the perfect event for you. Neo nyzul without cheats!

So what are you complaining about?

[Plasticleg]

Dynamis is still there to grab your alliance +1 and go wreck it.
They didn't remove Kirin.
AV and PW are still pop-able.
Odin75 can still make you money.

I don't see the argument here; unless all you did when cap was 75 was meripo or be a sheep for HNM claims.

[FrankReynolds]

Couple quotes from Karbuncle~

The only reason, only, some people think Old school used to be better is because of wonderful deep rose tented glasses. Its Nostalgia, nothing else. Maybe some of you are remembering your old LS Friends, Maybe some of you are remembering doing CoP mission, regardless of the memories, its nostalgia.

Those wanting it to go back to the way it was are a minority, and those are the ones who can't grasp the concept of Nostalgia

~Yeah I'm the one with a pants on head attitude. IF YOU LIKE OLD SCHOOL FFXI IT CAN ONLY BE BECAUSE OF NOSTALGIA!!!

Fact is fact. You dont see the majority of old school FFXI elite players on here begging for more easy buttons. You do however see the majority of those who were deemed gimp at 75 cap here praising/begging for more easy button madness. Yes gimps were everywhere at 75 cap but the percentage of lvl 75 gimps that were rocking relics and other top notch end game gear was MUCH smaller than todays numbers. I dont expect a lot of people to agree because there just arent that many veterans left. BG's idea of gimp isnt my standard by any means. I expect far less than the perfect augments for the perfect sets in any situation lol. But yeah using victory rings at 99 when flame are less than 100k ... gimp. Using 4/5 perle with a random haste piece like dusk hands/feet or walmart head totalling less haste than 5/5 perle ... gimp. Yeah there were some people using askar head at 75 but it wasnt the norm.

TLDR: It's not about nostalgia it's more about the frustration that if you throw a rock in jeuno you're going to hit more F'tarded gimps than you will even moderately well geared players let alone elite properly geared players. Then when you try to give these people a chance in say a VW pick up they fail in every aspect of their job. WARs without even raging rush thinking they are ready for VW. Can you think of a time at 75 cap where you did an event considered end game with someone who had less than half their main weapons skill lvls ... I bet you cant.

Apparently you never did sky, sea, or dynamis before abyssea. There were people showing up for that crap that weren't even 75 yet. I've taken NMs from wiped alliances in sky and soloed them on red mage so many times I've lost count. Same with sea. I made a ton of loot selling gear to those "well geared elite" players you saw, and I've failed so many nyzul isle runs because retards couldn't figure out lamp floors that it gives me migraines just to think about it. I can't tell you how many usu sams I've partied with at colibri that used GK because they didn't have a polearm skilled yet. People who TP in Hecatomb gear and then "even out the slow" with some haste gear. Thieves at 75 using af gear because " DEX is good for thf" and war's showing up to merit in full AF (can you believe he even bothered questing it?).

You are in fact a victim of nostalgia. People sucked just as bad back then and you aren't / weren't as good as you think. Despite all of the "easy button is bad" and "noobs on ungeared jobs" that your spouting, something tells me that you still have a few 99 jobs that you noob it up on even though they aren't fully geared, just because you want to play them, or the job is needed for the event.

Final fantasy has literally hundreds of thousands of players. I highly doubt that the collective IQ's and work ethics have changed much over the years. Your in denial.

[Myo]

I like the game just as much as ever, but I do feel like they killed the leveling system 30+ when abyssea was introduced.

[Luvbunny]

I like the game just as much as ever, but I do feel like they killed the leveling system 30+ when abyssea was introduced.

They killed it when GoV was introduced - and people are actually smart enough to adapt it similar to abysea lvlng system and pretty much eliminated the need to grind your level. For me it's a great innovative game mechanic. The fun is not getting to 99, the fun now lies on the end game grinding for your gears, weapon and access. XP grinding is no more. All these conveniences are amazing, it makes the game feels faster, snappier, very accessible, less of stupid nonsensical ridiculous idiotic grinds just for the sake of taking more of your time to complete any single things in the game. But at the end, the best thing that happened with Abyssea is the introduction of myriad of options on how you want to play the game. And guess what? A lot of sane people take the easy shortcut road over the rose tinted "old school" way of doing things. And please don't argue about LOL perle pink teal gears - those gears are actually rather good for a starter set, and easily beat most of the 70s gears. It's a starter set while you are gathering your empyrean gears - it gives casual players a good start, and cheap to get, and let the veteran focus on gearing via abyssea, voidwatch, legion and all those new neo anything end game events.

[scaevola]

Yet for those of us who really, know for a fact that pretty much everything about FFXI has pretty much been destroyed in the last few years, from the sense of progression, the now barely-existent community.
No more mystery, exploration, challenge, team coordination; topped off with the fact that the sheer mentioning of this simple fact brings forth droves of people complacent with the virtual chatroom they're paying for.


Okay, I really just don't get this one at all.

FFXI was never that big! It just felt big because it took forever to walk there and Sneak/Invis saved you from certain death 8 times on the way! For instance, the sky stuff that people did for years amounts to about half the actual content of a given dungeon in not just WoW but probably any other AAA MMO release on the market. Abyssea/TotM probably introduced by volume more actual endgame content than the previous 8 years combined; adding Voidwatch puts us over for sure.

By square-footage, it's probably one of the smallest MMOs on the market, actually. What you're probably actually complaining about is the fact that you can warp like everywhere now, which you'll probably deny because it sounds straight-up insane when I put it that way.

[Mirabelle]

Bottom line though it isnt about nostalgia (I got off on a tanget there).

And showed your character by calling less skilled players "gimps" and "noobs". Two derogatory terms that really shouldn't be used IMO. There is a spectrum of skill and knowledge. Those at the lower end deserve to enjoy their time in the game just as much as those that are skilled since both pay the same fee per month. SE has no obligation to make the game only fun for the best players.
Anyway, I'm sorry people feel butthurt that the less skilled can get good rewards. There is still no excuse calling anyone a gimp just as you wouldn't call a less gifted person in real life a derogatory term in public.

[scaevola]

My previous post notwithstanding, OP, you really should try another game, not because I'm trying to get rid of you or I think another game would be better, but because a little variety never killed anyone and you might enjoy seeing a few uncharted (lol) vistas.

TERA seems to have gotten a lot of buzz with FFXI dudes; I haven't played it. Rift is pretty good, SW:ToR and LoTRO do a great job with the narrative arcs everyone seems to love so much in FFXI (though I never saw the appeal), and Aion feels a lot like old-school FFXI in my limited experience. Everquest II is MASSIVE and f2p without unreasonable p2p hooks. Guild Wars 2 looks pretty great. I needn't comment on FFXIV here, of all places. WoW is WoW, warts and all, but the game is absolutely huge at this point, has a lot of character, and is at its best in the leveling ride, so if you haven't tried it it's worth a shot.

It's not exaggerating to say there are more options for the enterprising MMO player than ever, so it's kind of silly to feel bogged down by one game you're sick of.

[Chuk]

Things always are changing. Unfortunately society does change. It has been 10 years since service for FFXI started. And guess what? A whole new generation of people are playing. Things cannot go back to the way they were, but we can always strive to lead by example. You are always the first thing you can change, if you choose to.

[Ragmar]

LOL - another thread about nostalgia yet again.... Sorry but the game is like 10 times better now than it used to be. Fun, accessible, and enjoyable. They finally focus the grind on end game and less of a chore to level. Now you don't need to spend hours and hours to get things done. Traveling time has been cut down tremendously. You no longer need the help of many people just to get simple things done. Most missions can be done solo or trio at most. Voidwatch is no longer LS events exclusive but random shouts - quick to set up, and you can make the battle last 5 mnts with displacer. Dynamis is no longer LS exclusive, you can solo. Even making empy weapon is not as bad as it was before. The game is going to the right direction, let's hope it will become even easier, enjoyable and more casual friendly than ever before. I mean seriously, this is just a game, something to waste your time and relax, no need to make it such a big deal like you have to accomplish greater challenge etc... Nobody has time to dedicate playing video games, which bears no real value other than pure entertainment. Not everyone has no jobs and no life other than playing video games 24/7.

Another poster complaining FFXI was to hard.

[Ragmar]

Dynamis is still there to grab your alliance +1 and go wreck it.
They didn't remove Kirin.
AV and PW are still pop-able.
Odin75 can still make you money.

I don't see the argument here; unless all you did when cap was 75 was meripo or be a sheep for HNM claims.

I just dont even know what to say here.

[Arcon]

I like the game just as much as ever, but I do feel like they killed the leveling system 30+ when abyssea was introduced.

No one's denying that. People are glad about it.

[FrankReynolds]

Another poster complaining FFXI was to hard.

Another poster who thinks work ethics and video games are supposed to go together.

[Reiterpallasch]

Good thing that you guys who are missing the old school hardcore stuff now have the perfect event for you. Neo nyzul without cheats!

So what are you complaining about?
The fact that no old content (aside from lvl 75 AV) had an instant "fuck you, you lose" mechanic that popped at random. Content that requires skill, and content that requires luck are two very different things.

[Aldersyde]

Fact is fact. You dont see the majority of old school FFXI elite players on here begging for more easy buttons. You do however see the majority of those who were deemed gimp at 75 cap here praising/begging for more easy button madness.

Lol, of course "the elite" aren't in here begging for easy buttons, they've already made their own. Or have you not been keeping up on the neo-nyzul threads on BG and Alla?

[Luvbunny]

Another poster complaining FFXI was to hard.

The game was never about "hard" content, the old school content was always and still is about massive grindastic time sink. It was never easy vs hard. Monsters have tons more hp while you are dealing a lot less damage. Everything was built around how much time they make you to complete things to make sure they can stretch events/content as long as they can possibly can and have to do menial ridiculous garbage quests or missions that take you through areas back and forth just to make sure you spend hours to complete simple things. It was never about skills...it is all about timing and comprehension of your job ability and when to push your macro button as well as understanding the monster tp moves and behavior. FFXI of yesteryears was built based on Everquest template. Abyssea took the game in 360 mode and put the new flavor derived from World of Warcraft. The game now is 10 times better because of it. You no longer need to dedicate much time playing it and can treat it as form of entertainment. It is meaningless, you are suppose to have fun, have a blast at killing things, get your stuffs, and be done with. Unless your form of fun is sitting idle looking for things to do, killing mob that takes an hour or more to kill, or shouting for hours only to find out half of the people cannot do it because they put many restrictive access....

[Luvbunny]

Abyssea has fantastic game design, it is flawless and amazing. It's basically let everyone to experience all the content immediately and let people as low as lvl 30 to join in and have fun - leeching and whatnot. They created a tiered contents, and to experience the higher tier you must work forward to it. Every little things you do get rewarded one way or another. You no longer need to fork gaziliion milions gil for gears but simply have to work toward it little by little, it is work but there is hope at the end. People have something to look forward to. Even when you are done with plus 1, you get to do plus 2, and empyrean weapons - as well as all those accessories. It is also an amazing place to finish most of your magian trials weapons. A great place for blue mages to hunt spells. A boon for people trying to farm for crafts. Just amazing content overall. Personally I wish people would just get tired of Abyssea and move on already and leave that expansion alone, go away, vanish - this way I can have all the contents all for me and not have to worry about competition camping NMs :) Voidwatch is also designed well, sure it is mostly luck based - but they eliminate exclusivity and elitism, everyone can join, very easy to make random shout groups. And now they make it even more accessible by giving you options to use displacer.

[Ragmar]

"Abyssea has fantastic game design, it is flawless and amazing." "VW is is also designed well"

Yes a lvl 30 character with the use of one temp item laying waste to the highest lvl NM is flawless game design. Infinate auto reraise 3... Bottleneck after bottleneck designed to create artificial challenges is flawless game design. Even the dev's now understand how bad abyssea was for FFXI.

VW ... really!? Yeah I really enjoyed watching bodies LS members of mine needed rot in a box because I couldnt simply "add to pool". Now the gimp in the alliance that failed up the entire fight (or being afk) leeching off others getting the drop instead of my buddy who carried both their weight, thats just icing on the cake. Hey though if 5 people who already got the drop get it again, before he does, they can sell their tickets for millions upon millions each and he can pay 15-50M for it. That or he can spend more time doing VW than people used to spend camping HNMs yet still no closer to getting the drop. Meanwhile I go 1/1 on a body I'll never use that someone else just popped for the 300th and counting time. All this sounds like a dream come true.

Not just from you but all I read here is FFXI was too hard QQ easy buttons FTW!

[Demon6324236]

Yes a lvl 30 character with the use of one temp item laying waste to the highest lvl NM is flawless game design. Infinate auto reraise 3... Bottleneck after bottleneck designed to create artificial challenges is flawless game design. Even the dev's now understand how bad abyssea was for FFXI.Brews were the weakening items for Abyssea. Just like VW, if you couldn't kill it by normal methods it allows you to still fight the enemy but the difference was brews took it to far without any moderation. Brews were a bad thing because they took you from whatever you were to a complete god for 3 minutes so long as ailments didn't destroy you.

Reraise was ok, number of times I would be out doing something and get killed for a random reason, then have to travel back which was highly annoying. Apoc was a good idea for that part, however the ability to zombie everything was not, because of it things were made to simple.
VW ... really!? Yeah I really enjoyed watching bodies LS members of mine needed rot in a box because I couldnt simply "add to pool". Now the gimp in the alliance that failed up the entire fight (or being afk) leeching off others getting the drop instead of my buddy who carried both their weight, thats just icing on the cake.VW has this problem because they failed to do what Abyssea did, which was make rewards that you could obtain with effort. A topic that has been beaten down so much, but yet is completely true. VW drops are just Abyssea, but made with old style torture of trying to get things you want.
Hey though if 5 people who already got the drop get it again, before he does, they can sell their tickets for millions upon millions each and he can pay 15-50M for it.This is because SE has their mind set of not listening to players. We told them as soon as they announced how tickets would work, that is was a bad idea. They actually think they fixed it I guess, because they did change from their original plans of making tickets R/EX. This was a massive problem SE created by not listening to the players, and chances are we will see it again with the new 2-hours, one can only hope I am wrong.
That or he can spend more time doing VW than people used to spend camping HNMs yet still no closer to getting the drop. Meanwhile I go 1/1 on a body I'll never use that someone else just popped for the 300th and counting time. All this sounds like a dream come true.Simply because thats what VW was made to do, everything about VW screams time sink. Low drops, no sharing drops, 1500 Heavy Metal Plates that drop 1/5 fights. The entire event was made like that, and has screwed players since its creation because of it.

People act like Abyssea and VW are so similar and designed the same. In honesty the only things they really share are procs, atma, and abyssite. When people complain about Abyssea they say it is to easy, leveling is fast, you can actually get gear without taking to long, things like that. VW is the exact opposite, VW is that it takes to long to get things because its luck based, anyone can get any piece of gear at random, want it or not, while anyone who wants it can be just as well of, and get nothing for the trouble.
Not just from you but all I read here is FFXI was too hard QQ easy buttons FTW!All I read from you is complaining that people have it easier now, and want to enjoy it. Rather than wanting to have to play the game like a life style to get good things in it. Just because you play it to relax or have fun doesn't mean you don't want good gear, weapons, or to play it well. Sorry to tell you but sometimes, easy, is funner than wanting to rip your hair out of your head because something is annoying or a pain in the ass to do.

[Arcon]

Abyssea is like a mini-game within FFXI. The rules of regular FFXI don't apply. It's a subsection, enclosed within its own set of rules. The talk of fanboys like Luvbunny just taints the arguments other people are trying to make. The point is, this issue has nothing to do with easy vs. hard. It's about accessible vs. not. Old FFXI didn't let you play the game unless you put lots of hard and annoying work into it. That doesn't mean it wasn't amazing at 75, even if it was still hard. But the fact is, you had to work first to be able to play it. Working, however, is not what I play a game for. When I log on FFXI I wanna play. I don't care if the content is hard, personally I quite prefer it. But it should be accessible.

I for one hate Abyssea and VW almost as much (same things apply to VW as what I said about Abyssea above). Abyssea ruined quite a large part of the game to me some of the effects I still feel today. But I still appreciate what it did right, which was making an even ground for Lv99 content. Now everyone who wants to participate in Lv99 content can actually do so. That does not mean they will succeed at it. Try throwing a bunch of noobs at Odin or Legion and see how far it will get you. Content is still hard, and that's good. But finally people actually get to experience it.

[Luvbunny]

I don't get what are you complaining about. The game is better because now there are myriad of options of things to do. Abyssea, Voidwatch, Walk of Echoes, Neo Dynamis, Neo Nyzul, Neo Limbus, Neo Einherjar, and Legion. Each cater to different group sets of people. We no longer have to be put in one box and cornered to do a few things but can choose how hard or easy we want to play our game. The majority want easy buttons so brew and displacer are introduced. Guess what, most do take the bait. And yes we both same to agree on accessibility part, and the developers did good on that. They can't please everyone. So far they are doing good even with the skeleton crew and the occasional WTF they were thinking moments like the new 2 hours.

But I do applaud your abyssea hating opinion though, please please let this be the norm, influence other people to abandon abyssea especially the ones in bahamut server. I really need to have everyone in Bahamut to avoid abyssea like plague and leave the whole content alone just for me so I can have all the fun with no competition, finish plus 2 on every single jobs, and never have to deal with congested camp, competition camping NMs, etc... Will everyone please just do old school GoV, ToAU camps and just get the hell out of abyssea :P

[Ezikiel]

if i post on this thread will it move to page 1?

[Mirage]

Bottleneck after bottleneck? Sure, I'm not going to claim there weren't bottlenecks in Abyssea, but they are far from as bad as what we've experienced earlier in the game's life.

Abyssea wasn't flawless, but it had rewards for almsot every type of player. You had low-level stuff for people who don't play that much and just don't want to completely suck, gear that takes a bit more time to get and is relatively good, and gear that takes either a lot of time, or a very high degree of efficiency to do. You had stuff that could be killed with 3 or less people, stuff that could be killed with 6 or less, and stuff that required relatively large groups (at their respective level caps, of course. Naturally, latheine NMs are going to be easy at lv99 when they were designed for lv80 characters).

The dev team actually listened to the players when complaints about bottlenecks popped up, by adding more ???s to spawn things at, and by adding lots of pop items to chests instead of having to do the lower tier NMs.

You say "even the devs understand how bad Abyssea was for FFXI", but fail to realize why they said this. It's not because it rewarded players well, but because it raised the bar on how much content they have to pump out to keep the players satisfied. It's bad in terms of how many resources they have to spend on the game, not in terms of how the player base reacted to it.

My opinion on the whole abyssea dealie: What Abyssea did was good, but it happened too fast for SE to be able to deal with the inevitable problems that occured. Had they instead started increasing the level cap in like 2008 and then 5 levels a year until today, I think they would have been able to balance things out a lot better than they did, and make the transition from lotsoftime=tinyrewards to averagetime=greatrewards much smoother than what Abyssea did.

Also, a non-gameplay issue I have with Abyssea: "Lol dimensions and shit crashing together" just makes me think the writers ran out of good ideas and had to make up some bullshit to use as an excuse to build new game mechanics around. That is however very unrelated to this thread.