New suggested Dancer 2h ~ Players Discussion

[Eri]

First off. The new 2h is on the test servers if you feel like trying.

So i went to Test keeping the discription given in mind:

Grants maximum amount of Finishing Moves and the recast time of all Flourishes will be reset.
Additionally, while the ability is in effect, Finishing Moves will not be consumed.

I was thinking i could read this in 2 Ways.

Either:

1. Unlimted Finishing Moves > Unlimited Flourishes

(I thought that sounded a bit to Good.)

OR

2. Resets all Flourishes Recast 1 Time, Unlimted Finishing Moves, as many Flourishes as recasts allow.

(Sounded like what is probably the correct way to read it.)


So I went to test!

And i found something that was nearly as usefull as Trenary Flourish. (At least to me.)

Turns out that Option 2. was the right way to read it. Its perfect right to say that its underwhelming +1.

My personal opinion is that they should have (Like Trance) made all Flourish recasts 6 sec recast while the Ability is active.
Then it might be a decent 2h to use (if they did that). But what we got here is..... as good as a Bst's invite Rate to Exp Partys in 2006.

Has anyone found a use for it that i might have missed out on?

[Shibayama]

I was really underwhelmed when I saw this. I would suggest the dnc community write lots of feedback about methods of changing it to be actually worth using but at this rate I'm fully expecting a "These abilities were implemented with the idea of future growth in mind, we will be adding merits and gear to strengthen them 5 years later, so in the meantime please keep leaving feedback we'll completely ignore because the people who created these abilities know way more about this game than you people who play the game every day."

Welp, into the pile with Ternary then.

[Plasticleg]

This is a giant kick in the face...

Thanks devs!

[Shibayama]

Honestly I'm just happy I'm not a BST right now...

[Badieh]

I think it sounds good so far. Who knows what new flourish moves they will add in the future.

[Eri]

I think ppl should at least tell SE that this ability is kinda trashy OR someone finds a use lol
and btw it doesnt matter what Flourishes they they add. Unless like Flourishes that can only be use while this is up..... lol waste of abity slots

[Byrth]

That's pretty much all there is. You can do:
Evisceration -> Reverse -> 2-hour -> Climactic -> Rudra's -> Reverse -> Rudra's
or
Climactic -> No Foot Rise -> Evisceration -> Reverse -> Rudra's -> 2-hour -> Reverse -> Rudra's

Either way, you're basically blowing your 2-hour to add one more WS+Skillchain. If they implement the 2-hour like this, I will likely not use it in case I play a job with a useful 2-hour within 2 hours. It's more useful than Trance, but I don't use that either.

[Deathrose]

Imo they basicly gave us a waterd down way of doing sams old two hour with out a prob, which isnt bad but still not game chnging and not really warranted to be a two hour ability.

[Asymptotic]

It's absolutely awful.

[Vesna]

Sounds like a very dissappointing new 2hr ... -.- not looking forward to trying it for myself tomorrow on test server.. personally .... Finishing moves have never really been a problem for me. it's not ALL that hard to keep them at max. so this seems like a TOTAL waste.

A better 2hr imo would have been something along the lines of 100tp per tic regain + Unlimited Finishing moves with a 3 minute duration which would give you the ability to solo SC or whatever else you would like to do for 3 minutes

[Babekeke]

I'll reply to this with the same response that I gave in the test server thread:


I can only assume that most 2 hours are so bad just because they are introducing the option to merit them. An amazing 2 hour is a bad starting point for an improvable ability. Merits for this are likely to have a category for "Flourish timer down 20% per merit".

It's a shame, but SE probably came up with really good ideas for 2 hours, then worked backwards, stripping them of some utility to put that utility into merits. Then they think up 2-3 other terrible categories that won't really enhance the ability in anyway and add them as the other meritable options, even though they know noone will ever merit them.

[Shibayama]

So here were two of my suggestions on to how to make the new 2 hour useful:

1) While under the effect of the 2 hour, doubles all damage output from the dancer.

Since pretty much all of our flourishes are combat related, this has good synergy with the concept of having this 2 hour be offense related. Just being able to use 3 combat flourishes back-to-back isn't enough to make DNC desireable for events - this would atleast give dnc some zerg potetial.

2) While under the effect of the 2 hour, makes any effects the dancer receives from enhancing flourishes AoE.

Remember how dancer was originally supposed to be a front-line support job? Apparently the devs don't since all we've been getting are solo damage boosting abilities lately. This ability would help get dancer's to lots of events and would justify the short duration. The ability to shoot 200-300 tp into the other melee or pass on some forced crits to sam weaponskills with climactic would help incorporate DNC into a melee-zerg 2 hour strategy nicely. Most importantly, this has a large benefit for dnc who don't have rudras, while also giving those who do a nice boost!

To be honest I kind of doubt that they started out with good abilities and are working backwards. How do you roll back a killer 2 hour down to "Eats your pet and gives you stoneskin."

[FrankReynolds]

Remember how dancer was originally supposed to be a front-line support job? Apparently the devs don't since all we've been getting are solo damage boosting abilities lately.

Now that you mention it, dancer really has no roll in group stuff right now. It would be nice if they adjusted saber dance to where it still allows us to use cures etc., but only on ourselves, then added a chunk of attack and magic haste to it. Just make dancer a full on DD and pretend the front line support thing never happened. :P

I would like to see the new 2 hour bring haste samba up to like %40, add a drain samba effect to it and increase the duration to like 10-15 minutes. That way we could compete with scholars for slots in zerg type crap. Obviously wouldn't help in things like neo nyzul, but it would be bad ass for legion, DL and possibly a few other things.

[Deathrose]

Being able to reduce the timers of flourishes through merits on this 2hr might not be a bad idea in terms of dealing quick dmg. Stringing C Rudras doesnt sound bad to me.

[Babekeke]

So, 3 flourishes of whatever you like (as if you'll NOT choose 3 reverse?).

[Eri]

The new Description is: "Gives five finishing moves, resets flourish recast timers, and eliminates the cost of finishing moves.
Effect ends either when its duration expires or is used three times."

If that means what it sounds like.... I cant wait till its on the test server...seriously!

(Link to the new Descriptions (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26302))

[Deathrose]

It still seems a bit lackluster to me. I suppose we prob get 1 good ws maybe 2 depending on if it wipes fm after third flourish. I was hoping they would do like they did with waltzs in Trance and cut the recast down to maybe 5 secs on flourishs. Im not sure i like my 2hr to be limited to 3 flourish only. Although if this means there is no recast during this phase it would mean we could double climactic/ternary rudra at that point if you do it right..... which I would find delightful if that were the case. Cant wait till further testing is done.


P.S: SE this is a decent start however im still baddly wanting to use dnc in major end-game events. See bout hooking dnc up with some nice debuffs/buffs thanks again SE.

[Eri]

As i read it (which could be wrong!) ... It seems like 3 full Ability resets ~ thats far more than just 3 flourishes. Ultimately thu i hope this will be added to Test Server fast. So we will know exactly what this is about.

[Deathrose]

*DNC: While Trance allows for full utilization of waltzes and steps, the new 2-hr ability is intended to allow DNCs to take advantage of flourishes as they can always be used with maximum effect while the ability is active. R/B/C Flourishes especially benefit from this effect. It was requested to eliminate the recast timer for Flourish with the new two-hour. As you might guess, this was not done because of the effect of Reverse Flourish.

Since we do not want you to be able to use an unlimited amount of weapon skills, but we still want this move to be powerful, we are considering the following changes:
**Reduce duration from 60 seconds to 30 seconds.
**In addition to resetting the cooldown of flourishes, also allow the use of up to three flourishes consecutively.
**The effect of this ability will wear off after 30 seconds or once three flourishes have been used.

In this week's test server update, we will add the new ability for WHM, update the WAR ability, and make other bug fixes. DNC/BRD adjustments will take place in the next update.

Which reads like there is a max of 5 ws's back to back if you just used reverse flourish for the 3 flourishes, but most ppl at this point have empy so climactic/ternary seems a bit more appealing than the chain ws route, but this is imo.

[Byrth]

Climactic (5 FMs) -> WS -> NFR + Reverse -> WS -> 2-hour -> Reverse -> WS -> Reverse -> WS -> Reverse -> WS

If you are /SAM you can do 6 or 7 WSs back to back within skillchain window times.

[Deathrose]

which could mean 5 climactic rudras....... Annnnnd ternary is still useless lol.

[Eri]

Wasn't it always useless? Correct me if i wrong.

[Ezikiel]

Honestly I'm just happy I'm not a BST right now...i know this isnt the place for this but yeah BSTS got crapped on