[dev1058] RDM Merit 2 Hour

[0nionKn1ght]

Just wanted to provide feedback on the 2 hour ability.

It seems a little confusing that the idea is to give them a boost to effectiveness and duration on their Enhancing Magic, when it's already at a B+ rating (White Mages (C+ rating) with gear outshining it with the use of AoE on the same buffs).

Instead it would have been so much more useful to have the merit 2 hour ability as:



Focus Fire (2hour):
Shares cooldown with regular Chainspell, however this allows the Red Mage to target any player in their Alliance and grant them a 20 second Chainspell ability. During this time, the Red Mage will also be able to cast Stoneskin, Blink, Aquaveil and Phalanx I on other alliance members.




The idea of giving RDM the ability to become slightly more effective at buffing while other classes in your party/alliance would be aoe buffing anyways, once every 2 hours (for 30+ minute buffs which might be increased slightly by this, and gear) is silly, not even considering that they don't have AoE buffs as standard, as it still leaves them even more out of the rotation for endgame.

In any case, no RDM would use a slightly more powerful enhancing magic 2 hour in lieu of Chainspell, as the functionality of CS is far above that which a few extra defence points can offer in an emergency.

A targetted chainspell would concrete a RDM or 2 into every Alliance again, as right now, while my enfeebles are really useful in low man content, the slot I take up in the alliance could be far more useful held by a Scholar for example. A class needs to be on par with every other, and part of the decision to be included, not completely forgotten and left to gather dust.

Edited for brainfarts

[Sunrider]

Just wanted to provide feedback on the 2 hour ability.

It seems a little confusing that the idea is to give them a boost to effectiveness and duration on their Enhancing Magic, when it's already at a D rating (Paladin's and White Mages far outshining it).

What are you talking about? RDM has the highest native Enhancing skill among all jobs, it's B+ rated. WHM's is C+ (though gear can make it equal to RDM), and PLD's is D.

[0nionKn1ght]

What are you talking about? RDM has the highest native Enhancing skill among all jobs, it's B+ rated. WHM's is C+ (though gear can make it equal to RDM), and PLD's is D.

Actually honestly don't know what I was on about there. I checked it earlier while writing this post, and saw D instead of the actual rating lol. Just got my brain confuddled. However the lack of AoE is still correct, barring a sub job. Hardly the main point of the post though.

[tyrantsyn]

The problem is, you, me and every one else really have no idea how potent this new ability is going to be. If it double's potency and duration, we could be looking at a truly awesome combo /sch with accession. Now i'm only speculating here "because we don't know" but I believe phalanx caps at 42? double at 84 that would be a hell of a damage reduction tool. And would give all sort's of call for a enhance out rdm. Again double potency on stoneskin would give up to 1000 damage before even being broke. And "if" the ability break's the cap on the Haste spell, that would be incredibly sweet.

Now if it's something lame like a 10% increase, with no way to increase it. Yeah I would agree waste of time.

Note: Sorry if my number's are off on phalanx and stoneskin, Too lazy too research.

[ManaKing]

Yeah ill take what they are trying to give us currently instead.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Yeah ill take what they are trying to give us currently instead.

Even though it was incorrect, and the corrected version is such rubbish? Yay! Increased Haste Potency for 9 minutes with Composure, 3~6 minutes for party members.

[Llana_Virren]

Actually honestly don't know what I was on about there. I checked it earlier while writing this post, and saw D instead of the actual rating lol. Just got my brain confuddled. However the lack of AoE is still correct, barring a sub job. Hardly the main point of the post though.



Maybe you saw SCH's native rating sans Arts?

Nevertheless, our B+ rated skill has, thusfar, been almost as laughable as our A+ skill is.

[Sunrider]

Nevertheless, our B+ rated skill has, thusfar, been almost as laughable as our A+ skill is.One of the problems is that it doesn't affect a whole lot. What does Enhancing skill manipulate; Bar-spells, En-spells, Stoneskin? Phalanx, maybe Aquaveil?

Would it be so wrong if we could improve Refresh and Regen with Enhancing skill, improve Protect and Shell, maybe improve the accuracy of Blink's shadows? Would it be wrong for more generous defense tiers on Bar-spells, more generous damage caps for tier 1 En-spells, to calculate tier 2 En-spells per cast instead of per attack?

Enhancing skill encompasses an extensive list of spells, but doesn't do much for many of them.

[saevel]

One of the problems is that it doesn't affect a whole lot. What does Enhancing skill manipulate; Bar-spells, En-spells, Stoneskin? Phalanx, maybe Aquaveil?

Would it be so wrong if we could improve Refresh and Regen with Enhancing skill, improve Protect and Shell, maybe improve the accuracy of Blink's shadows? Would it be wrong for more generous defense tiers on Bar-spells, more generous damage caps for tier 1 En-spells, to calculate tier 2 En-spells per cast instead of per attack?

Enhancing skill encompasses an extensive list of spells, but doesn't do much for many of them.

Enhancing does a lot for RDM, but only for the RDM. This wouldn't be that bad if SE introduced a larger variety of spells to buff ourselves / alter our casting and melee stats, but as it stands it's kinda sh1t. RDM needs more JA / JT / spells (basically the entire job needs rebuilt) to give it a purpose, even if that purpose is to quickly change job roles.

[Sunrider]

Enhancing does a lot for RDM, but only for the RDM. This wouldn't be that bad if SE introduced a larger variety of spells to buff ourselves / alter our casting and melee stats, but as it stands it's kinda sh1t.
I meant Enhancing skill itself. It manipulates a few Enhancing spell lines (Phalanx, Stoneskin, Bar- spells, En-spells, Spikes spells, Gain spells), while the remaining, pivotal few are static (Refresh, Regen, Protect, Shell, Blink, Aquaveil, Haste) and probably could stand to be more dynamic.

[Demon6324236]

Just thought of something... somewhat of the whole "Rune means the death of RDM" thing, anyone notice that our new 2-hour seems strikingly similar to that ability Rune will have that is going to give a 50% boost to Enhancing magic effects, while halving the duration? I don't know, just a thought that hit me, seems like this 2-hour is even worse when I think of that cause it means we are probably getting roughly the same thing, but without the duration decrease... yippy~...

[Lilia]

you all know what is the best?

Rdm use new 2h for buff the enhauncing spells :)

Mob use dispelga >.<

Rdm lost all buffs ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

RDM "Yeah- i rly like the new 2h"

or maybe the mob cant dispel the spells then- like embrava?

[Demon6324236]

you all know what is the best?

Rdm use new 2h for buff the enhauncing spells :)

Mob use dispelga >.<

Rdm lost all buffs ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

RDM "Yeah- i rly like the new 2h"

or maybe the mob cant dispel the spells then- like embrava?

God I hope so... Dragons and Pixies are the devil to RDM.
Me vs Carabosse solo
*Demonjustin casts blah blah blah buffs*
*Carabosse spawns*
*Carabosse gets enough TP and uses Cyclonic Turmoil (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Cyclonic_Turmoil)*
*Carabosse removes 14 effects from Demonjustin*
*Demonjustin rages and dies*

If the 2-Hour stops this, might be worth having sometimes :D

[Kristal]

God I hope so... Dragons and Pixies are the devil to RDM.
Me vs Carabosse solo
*Demonjustin casts blah blah blah buffs*
*Carabosse spawns*
*Carabosse gets enough TP and uses Cyclonic Turmoil (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Cyclonic_Turmoil)*
*Carabosse removes 14 effects from Demonjustin*
*Demonjustin rages and dies*

If the 2-Hour stops this, might be worth having sometimes :D

Carabosse is kind compared to Earth Ephemeral Amoeban... Nuclear Implosion steals all your buffs and a sizable chunk of HP, and the damn thing spams it. After 20 minutes fighting that fully buffed Amoeban, I still couldn't kill it, so I ran away. Then I came back on PUP, and killed it in less time then it can say lolRDM.

[Alistaire]

Edited for brainfarts

No offense, but this whole thing is a brainfart. Just a bad idea.

[Demon6324236]

See since RDM is half melee & half mage (in my eyes at least ;>_>) I was hoping that since Chainspell is an all mage 2-hour this would be a melee 2-hour. Now if they do it right it can do just that, seriously, double the effect and duration of buffs, so that most last for 25 minutes with proper gear, and they double the effects of the spells. That will give RDM the ability to melee and stand on its own 2 legs. Without being so where it should become like SCH with Embrava. This probably sounds overpowered, but honestly with how most people seem to think of RDMs DDing, doubling our Enhancing effects shouldn't be, it should put us right up there with the DDs.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Seems rather disappointing.

Naked

Phalanx removed: 38 points of damage instead of 32
Protect V granted: +87
Refresh II: 9 instead of 6
Blink: 5 shadows
Regen II: 17

For a 30~45 second recast 2-hour I was at least hoping for Double the potency.

[Sunrider]

Did you get to try that new JA they announced? Might it stack with the 2h?

I bet I know the answer, but can't hurt to ask.

[Demon6324236]

I didn't know it was up already but thats pathetic... either SE needs to buff it or they need to make that a 30 minute job ability or something, that is NOT worth 2 hours in the least bit.

[Demon6324236]

Did you get to try that new JA they announced? Might it stack with the 2h?

I bet I know the answer, but can't hurt to ask.

The one from this list? That is the 2-hour, or are you meaning another one? :o (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26302-dev1135-New-Special-Job-Abilities)

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Did you get to try that new JA they announced? Might it stack with the 2h?

I bet I know the answer, but can't hurt to ask.

new JA?

I tried it with the new two-hour.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Atleast they are eyeballing one thing we were talking about, more blink shadows. I also considered the addition of a buff or trait that perhaps increases resistance to having a rdm's selfcasted buffs removed. (Perhaps limiting them to one per dispel/steal spell/steal ja). I think that could go a long ways indeed.

[Demon6324236]

Atleast they are eyeballing one thing we were talking about, more blink shadows.

Yeah, its just we have to wait 2 hours between every use of it, I don't think my NMs and mobs will wait that long to start swinging at me again. :p

[Crimson_Slasher]

Agreed, but atleast it means they are admitting it can be done and possibly will fix it separately.

[Lilia]

Can nm dispel the 2h buffs?

That i want know?

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Can nm dispel the 2h buffs?

That i want know?

Never tried, can't think of an NM that does Dispel enough, and no one I know is on the test-server to try in PVP.

I'd say a safe bet is Yes.

[Sunrider]

My bad, for a moment I thought there was both the 2h and a seperate JA with similar powers.

Anyway, not even double potency is utter bollocks.

[Demon6324236]

Never tried, can't think of an NM that does Dispel enough, and no one I know is on the test-server to try in PVP.

I'd say a safe bet is Yes.

Go fight Ash Dragon in Ifrit's Cauldron or the red Dragons(can't think of their names atm) out in MountZ, they use a song attack that dispels all buffs normally, just make sure you do not Silence them or they will not use it.

[Demon6324236]

Current numbers seem to suggest a 20~50% increase from what Daniel_Hatcher said, come on Square, you can do better than this.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Go fight Ash Dragon in Ifrit's Cauldron or the red Dragons(can't think of their names atm) out in MountZ, they use a song attack that dispels all buffs normally, just make sure you do not Silence them or they will not use it.

Dahak and every buff wore off.

Interestingly 2-hour does absolutely nothing to the Gain spells, going to go and check Stoneskin now.

Stoneskin seems to absorb more damage, not sure how much though as I said no one I know is on the Test Server so had to use Sabotender. I'd say at least 500.

[Lilia]

Come on SE, give the 2h undispeleffect like embrave

for what is that 2h good when you can dispel the buffs easy?

PLEEEEEEASE:rolleyes:

[Demon6324236]

Dahak and every buff wore off.

Interestingly 2-hour does absolutely nothing to the Gain spells, going to go and check Stoneskin now.

Stoneskin seems to absorb more damage, not sure how much though as I said no one I know is on the Test Server so had to use Sabotender. I'd say at least 500.

Seriously, with each passing day it is getting harder and harder to have faith in my RDM, its no wonder I have been doing Excalibur for about 6 months and cant find the will to just finish the thing already. Thank you for testing it though, I wonder what effect it will have on Stoneskin, might not be any thanks to Stoneskin having its own gear to assist it. :(

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Seriously, with each passing day it is getting harder and harder to have faith in my RDM, its no wonder I have been doing Excalibur for about 6 months and cant find the will to just finish the thing already. Thank you for testing it though, I wonder what effect it will have on Stoneskin, might not be any thanks to Stoneskin having its own gear to assist it. :(

It seemed from 1000 needles to be at least ~500 - Enspells I at 420 skill was 39, with Barspells 195.

took 443 with no gear and only Stoneskin ad Phalanx II (to negate normal physical hits)

[Sunrider]

Dahak and every buff wore off.

Interestingly 2-hour does absolutely nothing to the Gain spells, going to go and check Stoneskin now.

Stoneskin seems to absorb more damage, not sure how much though as I said no one I know is on the Test Server so had to use Sabotender. I'd say at least 500.Incredibly disappointing.

This would make a better 1 minute duration, 2 minute recast JA, but in pinch situations, I'd probably still choose Chainspell over this tripe.

[Mefuki]

Come on SE, give the 2h undispeleffect like embrave

for what is that 2h good when you can dispel the buffs easy?

PLEEEEEEASE:rolleyes:

Whoa, whoa, this is going to make me sound kinda silly but...Embrava effects can't be dispelled!? Wow, that's even more broken then I thought.

You know I think the other jobs would like awesome 2 hours too. Considering how much balance is strived for, don't you think it's a little unbalanced for SMN to have two good 2 hours now when some jobs don't have one?

SE, please allow RDM's new 2 hour to double potency, allow self target buffs to be AoE, and buffs cast under it's effects be undispellable. Before SE says this is overpowered, I feel like I should remind them of their description of RDM:

"Vision
Support specialists who excel at transforming their allies from mere mortals into demigods with their enhancements, while rendering once-formidable enemies impotent with enfeebling magic."

[Demon6324236]

Whoa, whoa, this is going to make me sound kinda silly but...Embrava effects can't be dispelled!? Wow, that's even more broken then I thought.

Yep, can't dispel Embrava, can't erase Kaustra. They are sticking to you like it or not. Which yeah, makes it unbalanced, I remember when fighting Proto-Ultima his buffwipe would annoy the hell out of me, but Embrava zerging him was simple, just ignore it, short terror between spams with you still regaining as you wait.

[Badieh]

Yep, can't dispel Embrava, can't erase Kaustra. They are sticking to you like it or not. Which yeah, makes it unbalanced, I remember when fighting Proto-Ultima his buffwipe would annoy the hell out of me, but Embrava zerging him was simple, just ignore it, short terror between spams with you still regaining as you wait.

Personally I think all 2h's should not be dispelled, or amnesia-ed.

[Demon6324236]

Personally I think all 2h's should not be dispelled, or amnesia-ed.

I agree, but that is why its unbalanced, because the others can be. Honestly when using a 2-hour you shouldn't be terrored, stunned, amnesiaed, or silenced(basically nothing should stop it) oh and using them they shouldn't be able to be paralyzed, thats just annoying. In either case the reason I say its unbalanced is because it is 1 of the few 2-hours which cant be taken away by means other than death. Anything else can basically be taken away by Amnesia or Silence, Terror & Stun are really short time but they still take it down, and most last much less than the 5~12.5 Minutes that Embrava lasts so those seconds can really count.

[Badieh]

I agree, but that is why its unbalanced, because the others can be. Honestly when using a 2-hour you shouldn't be terrored, stunned, amnesiaed, or silenced(basically nothing should stop it) oh and using them they shouldn't be able to be paralyzed, thats just annoying. In either case the reason I say its unbalanced is because it is 1 of the few 2-hours which cant be taken away by means other than death. Anything else can basically be taken away by Amnesia or Silence, Terror & Stun are really short time but they still take it down, and most last much less than the 5~12.5 Minutes that Embrava lasts so those seconds can really count.

Well the sch can be silenced, slept, stun-ed, terror-ed, amnesia-ed, or killed in an attempt to use the stratagems and the spells. And can't Tabula Rasa be dispelled?

[Badieh]

Personally I think all 2h's should not be dispelled, or amnesia-ed.

I also think that 2h's should break silence, amnesia, or paralyze.

[Demon6324236]

Well the sch can be silenced, slept, stun-ed, terror-ed, amnesia-ed, or killed in an attempt to use the stratagems and the spells. And can't Tabula Rasa be dispelled?

I don't think 2-hours can be dispelled, only if it provides an outside effect like Embrava would it be possible so far as I know, and not even that can be. The rest yes the SCH can be however I would like to add a SCH gets 3 whole minutes for Tabula Rasa and even more I think if they have a piece of AF2+2 with augment, as they all seem to have 2-hour ability duration extensions. I was simply saying that it is somewhat unbalanced as Embrava itself lasts so long and can not be removed where as most 2-hours are short and can be taken away by a number of enfeeblings with ease.

[Badieh]

I don't think 2-hours can be dispelled, only if it provides an outside effect like Embrava would it be possible so far as I know, and not even that can be. The rest yes the SCH can be however I would like to add a SCH gets 3 whole minutes for Tabula Rasa and even more I think if they have a piece of AF2+2 with augment, as they all seem to have 2-hour ability duration extensions. I was simply saying that it is somewhat unbalanced as Embrava itself lasts so long and can not be removed where as most 2-hours are short and can be taken away by a number of enfeeblings with ease.

Oh okay, got yah. But since I'm a 99 Sch and I'm on the long end of the stick... YIPPEEE!

[tyrantsyn]

So honestly I don't think the concept behind the new RDM 2 hour is all so bad. But in it's current form it doesn't really feel as much as a two hour as something that should be on a a 15 minutes timer. From what D-H has share with us here on his testing I've taken a moment to come up with some idea's to make it more 2 hour worthy/compile what has been share to beef it up properly.

1: 2 hr duration: honestly 30 to 45 second of improved buff's just doesn't really cry epic 2 hour at all. Basically you rush to get out buffs as fast as possible before the duration end. Having it for such a short time just kind of seem's cheap and kill's the over all utility. Ideally this 2 hour would work better with a 5 to 10 minute duration. Where it could be reapply when necessary til the end of the fight or at least mid way threw the fight.

2: undispel~able: I'm referring the actually spell's and not the 2 hr ability it self. This has been suggested a few time's to add over all bonus to the 2 hour to make it more appealing.

3: Duration increase: I know originally this was just a mis translated but it was a very appealing idea bonus to the ability.

4: It would be idea if the ability double potency on anything it affected. This would bring a lot of demand for the ability in end game content.

Perhaps with these idea's in mind, content could be design so balance could be achieved. Any way just my thought's on thing's.

[Demon6324236]

So honestly I don't think the concept behind the new RDM 2 hour is all so bad. But in it's current form it doesn't really feel as much as a two hour as something that should be on a a 15 minutes timer. From what D-H has share with us here on his testing I've taken a moment to come up with some idea's to make it more 2 hour worthy/compile what has been share to beef it up properly.

1: 2 hr duration: honestly 30 to 45 second of improved buff's just doesn't really cry epic 2 hour at all. Basically you rush to get out buffs as fast as possible before the duration end. Having it for such a short time just kind of seem's cheap and kill's the over all utility. Ideally this 2 hour would work better with a 5 to 10 minute duration. Where it could be reapply when necessary til the end of the fight or at least mid way threw the fight.

2: undispel~able: I'm referring the actually spell's and not the 2 hr ability it self. This has been suggested a few time's to add over all bonus to the 2 hour to make it more appealing.

3: Duration increase: I know originally this was just a mis translated but it was a very appealing idea bonus to the ability.

4: It would be idea if the ability double potency on anything it affected. This would bring a lot of demand for the ability in end game content.

Perhaps with these idea's in mind, content could be design so balance could be achieved. Any way just my thought's on thing's.

Exactly how I wanted, and still want, to see it.