New 2-hour Abilities

[Camate]

Anyone down for some new 2-hour information on this fine Tuesday?

We introduced two of them during VanaFest, but we just got a hold of the full list!

Currently, we are making adjustments to the effects and running tests on all of these new abilities, and we are planning to implement them in the upcoming test server update. However, as the Development Team is still working on getting all the kinks out, some will not be available right away. They will be doing their best to get as many new 2-hour abilities onto the test server as possible in the next update.

*The name and help text messages for each ability will be tentative when implemented to the test server. Also the effects and their values may be adjusted.

<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"><td width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Job</td><td width="75%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Effects</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">WAR</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Regular attacks will become non-elemental and grants a drastic increase in accuracy.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">MNK</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Grants a 100% counter-rate against regular attacks from enemies. Also, the amount of enmity gained by this will increase drastically.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">WHM</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants party members protection from status ailments.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">BLM</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Grants a drastic decrease in enmity generated by magic attacks.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">RDM</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants an increase to the effect of enhancing magic.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">THF</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Major damage is dealt to the enemy and all enmity will be transferred to the player standing in front of them.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">PLD</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">DRK</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Steals an enemy's TP through regular attacks while the effect is active.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">BST</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">BRD</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Drastically reduces the magic defense, magic evasion, and INT/MND of the target.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">RNG</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">The range modifier will become the optimal distance no matter the range to the target. Also, ammunition will not be consumed.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">SAM</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">All damage caused by physical special abilities will be evaded. Additionally, weapon skill damage will increase as more special abilities are evaded.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">NIN</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants a drastic increase in parry rate. Additionally, Ninjutsu recast times will be reduced by 50% and ninja tools will not be consumed.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">DRG</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Wyvern’s HP is completely restored and all status ailments are cured. Additionally, the wyvern’s stats will increase.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">SMN</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">The recast time of both summoning magic and Blood Pacts will become 0 while under the effect of the ability.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">BLU</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">While the ability is in effect, blue magic from Unbridled Learning can be used continuously.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">COR</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants the ability to use up to 3 Phantom Roll effects.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">PUP</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Automaton will use special abilities. Special ability usage will depend on the automaton head.<br>Harlequin Head: Mighty Strikes<br>Valoredge Head: Invincible<br>Sharpshot Head: Eagle Eye Shot<br>Stormwaker Head: Chainspell<br>Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will apply to the party members and automaton itself)<br>Spiritreaver Head: Manafont</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">DNC</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants maximum amount of Finishing Moves and the recast time of all Flourishes will be reset.<br>Additionally, while the ability is in effect, Finishing Moves will not be consumed.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">SCH</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Will direct enmity of all party members to an indicated player.</td></tr></table>

[Prothscar]

Are the Devs going to fix BLU's broken spells to coincide with this amazing new 2hr?

[cidbahamut]

Some of these are truly awful. Take them back to the drawing board and try again.

[Kyte]

Just to clarify again, is the plan still to have these share the same timer 2 hour timer as the current abilities? Because that would be the determinate between these being useful-ish or almost completely useless.

[Ragni]

Oh new job? SUM? :O

[Zagen]

Some of these look very promising or very meh :eek:

[Byrth]

Dancer's looks better than Trance. It's not going to be super useful, but it's something.

Climactic -> Evisceration -> NFR -> Reverse -> Rudra's -> New 2-hour -> Reverse -> Rudra's

[nyheen]

dont know what you guys talking about alot of these 2 hours look hot!. pup smn blu bst rng etc. but iam so looking at that pup. that 2 hours i called for a long time. each pet with own 2 hour. much better then the old one><

[Karbuncle]

Anyone down for some new 2-hour information on this fine Tuesday?

Yes!


WAR

Sounds good to me. Anyone who can't see the uses is plumb stupid.


MNK

a Defensive 2hour As opposed to their current, Offensive one. I l,ike it.


WHM

mmm, Sounds like a Watered down Perfect Defense... Maybe drawing board on this one.


BLM

Not super-de-dooper, But not bad. Enmity would need to be nearly non-existant.


RDM

IDK, This kinda feels like sh*t :( - I can't decide WTF SE Wants with RDM. Temper being single target/self only, then still shoving Enhancing magic buffs down their throat? Either make them a good enhancer or not... Almost every spell RDM gets enhancing wise, WHM gets in AoE Form.


THF

I hope "Massive Damage" Isn't the same as Coruscanti. Being said, I like how this sounds. I guess it didn't translate well, But I'm guessing "I kick ass while the guy tanking keeps hate".

--- I have to go to work so i can't go through the rest, But honestly, I Kinda like how most of it sounds, and I think these are pretty decent!

Thank you for the update CAMS

[Ophannus]

DRG 2hr is meh. The problem with the Wyvern isnt keeping it alive anymore, its keeping US alive. When we die, the wyvern dies too which is inevitable eventually on any hard fight. The stat bonus to the wyvern had better be gigantic because on difficult fights like Legion or the new Odin fight, my Wyvern hits NMs for like 10-30 damage and breaths do like 80-100ish. Even if it was Deep Breathing potency for 2min, it wouldn't help much except on low level, weak content like Dynamis or level 75 content.

[Louispv]

BST's is absolutely worthless. There is no time I would ever kill a 5 minute recast pet just to get reraise. The only time a BST would need reraise is if he DIDN'T have a pet because the pet is always the center of the enemy's attention.

Take it back and give us what you gave to PUP, or to DRG, hell I'd take what you gave to SMN if the pet tp requirement was also removed for the duration of the ability. Don't give us two worthless two hours.

It doesn't even make sense from a storyline perspective. We don't share any sort of spiritual bond with these pets like a DRG does, so absorbing them seems strange. We just fed them so they followed us home.

[Zhronne]

Some of those are hylarious w
I kinda like WAR, BLM (supposing the enmity down will be consistant), SMN and PUP. Oh also SAM and RNG, and I guess COR uhm... I dunno, chance of resetting with wild card, or 100% chance of getting 3 buffs for 7 mins? Could have an use.
The BRD one looks eh... uhm... I dunno, I wish it could have been a normal song, with inferior potency of course, that becomes that strong when used under Soul Voice.
Hope the debuff lasts at least 10 minutes >_> And hope it sticks 100% on anything. Would be preposterous to see mobs resist lol

RDM's could have potential I think. With the AF3+2 bonus set and that one you could haste people for 15 mins and then afk! YAI! (lol)

[Daniel_Hatcher]

So what? Now RDM is an enhancer, you're making my head hurt. (Since we are.... AoE, Yes, please! Or at least 5 minute natural haste)

PS. Useless buff unless you can keep the potency on recasting the spell before it wears off, or it has a LONG duration.

Only benefit would be if it was some crazy boost like Haste going from 15% to 30% on a 15 minute plus timer. Even then it's just a lesser Embrava.

[Zhronne]

If we have to "buy" these like with Merit WS and if we'll be limit to 3-5 of them, I guess it will be an easy choice to pick them up lol

[Neisan_Quetz]

SE: we won't make your spells AoE > here have a new 2 hour to enhance your mostly self target enhancing spells

Idungetit

[tyrantsyn]

BST's is absolutely worthless. There is no time I would ever kill a 5 minute recast pet just to get reraise. The only time a BST would need reraise is if he DIDN'T have a pet because the pet is always the center of the enemy's attention.

.

But if you can use this with a charmed pet and not A jug one, that could turn any potential mob into a win in a pinch. I'm not a BST but you can still call out a Jug pet after the fact couldn't you?

[Heabea]

rdm's should have the ability to target others with it's self target buffs at minimum during this. Otherwise it's complete shit, congrats rdm we gave you something a SCH can do every minute...

[Theytak]

dont know what you guys talking about alot of these 2 hours look hot!. pup smn blu bst rng etc. but iam so looking at that pup. that 2 hours i called for a long time. each pet with own 2 hour. much better then the old one><

So you're the one to blame for why our new 2hour is WORSE THAN FUCKING OVERDRIVE? Thanks.

Harlequin head: Might Strikes:
Harlequin is utterly useless after level 10, and it's auto-designated WS is magical damage that can't crit anyway (and it didn't even get a new post 75 cap WS like valoredge and sharpshot), so giving IT mighty strikes is @#%^ing stupid. Even if you can give VE mighty strikes with Harle's head, mix-matching heads for anything but the mage pet is terribad, because it @#%^s with skill levels, AI, WS availability, and attachment set ups. Valoredge is the only puppet that could make proper use of might strikes, because it's WS aren't all terrible. Harle's got 40 less delay, but hits for a lot less, too.

Valoredge Head: Invincible:
Valoredge is the one puppet that DIDN'T NEED INVINCIBLE, since it's the only puppet that can actually take a goddamn hit, since it's built as sturdy as a pld, but with as much HP as a galka MNK (and is a @#%^ing WARRIOR frame, in spite of it's shield bash, or it would be able to heal itself with cures, instead of the same way a war can, cannibal blade (sanguine blade)). Between it's innate DT- and Stout Servent, the fact that it's a warrior, and not a pld (seriously, shield bash does not make it a pld. It couldn't even use it's shield for anything else until 2011. there's NOTHING pld-esque about valoredge except shieldbash, but there's a dozen different things about that scream warrior), and that harlequin is a mage, and not a warrior, what sort of backwards logic lead them to giving mighty strikes to harlequin?

Sharpshot Head: Eagle Eye Shot
Eagle Eye Shot on Sharpshot is going to be just as useless as it is on rng, because I doubt it'll be stronger than Armor Shatterer.

Stormwaker Head: Chainspell
Chainspell is gonna be hit or miss, depending on whether it affects the universal recasts (ie: enhancing, elemental, enfeebling, and healing global recasts) or just casting time, the latter of which is what I'm expecting.

Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will only affect master and pet)
Benediction that only applies to the master and the pet is not benediction, but it's the only one that'll get any real use. Soulsoother is our pet that can affect party members, so why would it's 2 hour, and the only useful ability in this bunch, not do that?

Spiritreaver Head: Manafont
Manafont is absolutely pointless because of the global elemental recast and the fact that we have limitless MP. All this does is let Spiritreaver cast more than 2 nukes before it starts spamming aspir if we let it sit out.

Seriously, do they expect us to switch heads to take advantage of the melee 2hours? If you slap valoredge head on sharpshot, it kills sharpshot's ranged attack speed, lowers its ranged skill, fucks with its attachment slots, and is generally just a terrible idea. Sticking it on the mage frame makes it utterly useless for anything but long-delay cure IV.

SE, you finally had a chance to give us a real 2hour, as opposed to underwhelm (overdrive), and you give us this? Absolutely not. Take this stuff back to the drawing board and start over. Overwhelm is stronger than this, and it's utterly worthless.

This does nothing to fix the fact that all of the puppets except valoredge have terrible survivability. It does nothing to help pup in 2hour heavy zerg situations, where using our puppet still holds us back. All it is some stupid, cutsey shit that they think will appease us and let us recognize that our pets are actually jobs? Hell no.

Honestly, they got bst and pup's 2hours backwards. Pup should have gotten its own rendition of spirit surge (not the useless one bst got, though), since pup is like drg, where the master makes up a larger portion of the damage, while bst should have gotten something like this ghetto astral flow thing, giving different pets specific abilities.

Most of the other abilities are actually useful, though some only situationally, but pup got garbage, to go with the other garbage 2 hour we already had and have been asking to be replaced for years.

[Suteru]

Looking forward to triple-busting and wasting a 2hr!

[Crocker]

BST - Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.

Great another Ability that is like Run Wild. As a BST we hate losing pets for stupid reasons like zoning, connection loss, Run Wild, Voidwatch (Unless that was fixed like the dynamis issue) and now the new 2hr.

If I need Reraise there are items for that and BST gets access to the Twilight Reraise 3 gear.
Almost all BST sub DNC now so we have access to an Erase!

So here's something that could be fun for a new 2 hour - Calls forth a boss type Familiar - Mini fafnir, mini behemoth, Chloris, ect... Duration 30 mins Monster you get is random. Can not have a normal jug pet out. DOES NOT REQUIRE JUGS!

[Volarione]

I actually love the bst rng and pup ones plus sch one will give ne a lot of fun if someone really ticks me off I will put the finger of god on them with my mighty mass mpk ability.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

BST - Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.

Great another Ability that is like Run Wild. As a BST we hate losing pets for stupid reasons like zoning, connection loss, Run Wild, Voidwatch (Unless that was fixed like the dynamis issue) and now the new 2hr.

If I need Reraise there are items for that and BST get access to the Twilight Reraise 3 gear.
Almost all BST sub DNC now so we have access to an Erase!

So here's something that could be fun for a new 2 hour - Calls forth a boss type Familiar - Mini fafnir, mini behemoth, Chloris, ect... Duration 30 mins Monster you get is random. Can not have a normal jug pet out.

Could be worse, could be.

Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect. Resets "Call Beast" to maximum recast.

[Theytak]

Honestly, the only good thing about the rng 2hour is that it's not Eagle Eye Shot.


Could be worse, could be.

Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect. Resets "Call Beast" to maximum recast.

Oh god, don't give them ideas.

[Tile]

just thinking of sch using it on the wrong person and now everyone's hate is on the whm or something.

afew of these seem pretty pointless, smn is hot though

[Cowardlybabooon]

We are assuming these are all short duration, if some of the weaker ones last 15 mins they could be really good. Imagine rdm with a more potent haste and refresh. It's not embrava but might earn them a spot in any lowman group.

[Sotek]

Why is RDMs "enhancing" and not "enfeebling"? A 2Hr that lets you Bind anything, Gravity anything, Paralyze, Blind, Slow, etc. for enhanced potency and duration would actually be kind of useful. Completely unresisted enfeebles with double duration and double effect. Something like Break working like it does on us (doesn't wear off when hit) and so on would be useful. HQ Saboteur instead of HQ Composure please.

RDM has always been more of an enfeebler, if anything SCH is more of an enhancer. Give us this 2Hr so I can enjoy the delicious irony of having a 2Hr that would double the potency of Embrava, but never will since their recasts are linked. Well I assume they're linked at least, and their effects wear off if you use the other 2Hr to avoid exploiting COR to stack two 2Hrs.

As for what SCH actually got, make it so the target gets a temporary increase to their enmity cap so they effectively become the tank for its duration, this honestly sounds more like a PLD 2Hr than SCH one if you just remove the redirecting aspect. As it is, it's just AoE Enmity Douse. Put party enmity on a BLM, have them wipe it. Put party enmity on a tank, they don't need it. Put party enmity on WHM, laugh. At least if it boosted the enmity cap temporarily it would have an original and practical application. If this wasn't party wide, it would actually have been a useful normal ability to put alongside Libra. Doesn't really seem 2Hr worthy (along with most of these), but I guess Embrava so whatever.

[tyrantsyn]

I wouldn't call crap on the RDM ability yet. Depending on effect and duration bonus, there could be a lot of potential here.

Increase's to phalanx past cap
Increase Stone skin past cap
Possible higher Haste??? /awesome
Larger damage from Enspell's that didn't equal to crap damage during accession when /sch
Possible higher Protect and Shell value's
More shadow's from blink /meh, in less they were major increase 10 to 20?
Any increase to temper and gain spell's would only effect RDM so that's kind of a win and a lost depending on how you look at it.
Increases to other's not so much of a win tho could have potential bar/aquaveil/spikes.

I kind of happy about it. But I'll hold of judgement til testing.

[Phogg]

I'm trying really hard to come up with any scenario at all in which that BST ability would ever be useful, and I'm failing to see any.

Hmm, I'm paralyzed and my timers keep getting rest, suppose I'll use ye ol' Derpsorb!

Phogg is paralyzed.

/fume

Honestly though, no idea how that ability could ever be deemed useful, where are you going to want to snuff your pet for some HP and reraise? Hell, the RR items we have relied on religiously in this job are cheaper than many of our jugpets anyway. Just no value I can see in this concept. I wouldn't even use it as a 10 minute ability, let alone a 2-hour....

Maybe make it reset our JA's, or at least our Pet related JA's, or something that might possibly make it useful. I COULD see a combo of "oh noes" moment >> Run Wild >> Derpsorb >> CB >> Run wild, but barring something like that its just pointless.

[Theytak]

I wouldn't call crap on the RDM ability yet. Depending on effect and duration bonus, there could be a lot of potential here.

Increase's to phalanx past cap
Increase Stone skin past cap
Possible higher Haste??? /awesome
Larger damage from Enspell's that didn't equal to crap damage during accession when /sch
Possible higher Protect and Shell value's
More shadow's from blink /meh, in less they were major increase 10 to 20?
Any increase to temper and gain spell's would only effect RDM so that's kind of a win and a lost depending on how you look at it.
Increases to other's not so much of a win tho could have potential bar/aquaveil/spikes.

I kind of happy about it. But I'll hold of judgement til testing.

Hell, for all we know, it could make those self-only buffs (or maybe even just enhancing in general) AoE while active, and if it doesn't currently, you guys could scream until they give in. Pretty sure that would give rdm a permanent slot in zergs, if only because being able to give the melees in their party boosted stoneskin, boosted phalanx, boosted enspells (at least when haste samba isn't available or isn't necessary), and boosted temper (especially boosted temper) would make for some pretty handy zerg buffs.

[scaevola]

An awful lot of these are going to come down to duration.

[fernando]

i liked what they gave to PLD, oh wait mybad it's not a 2hour it's called THE SHAFT.

[Arcon]

An awful lot of these are going to come down to duration.

Especially the SMN one. Am I reading this right, that the BP delay will be set to zero? Meaning, you can spam BPs with a (Convertable) MP pool of up to 3k? This could be a massive boost for certain fights. That's about 20 BPs worth of hateless damage that can be spammed faster than weapon skills, if the time allows you to consume all of your available MP.

[Siiri]

These seem really weak as a whole. What happened to the person who designed embrava?

[tyrantsyn]

Hell, for all we know, it could make those self-only buffs (or maybe even just enhancing in general) AoE while active, and if it doesn't currently, you guys could scream until they give in. Pretty sure that would give rdm a permanent slot in zergs, if only because being able to give the melees in their party boosted stoneskin, boosted phalanx, boosted enspells (at least when haste samba isn't available or isn't necessary), and boosted temper (especially boosted temper) would make for some pretty handy zerg buffs.

We had it out back and forth with the Dev's about aura's and aoe buff's for RDM. They've made it pretty clear that is not the direction RDM will be taking. Longer duration seem to be tho ticket tho apparently, and maybe quite possible higher value's of buff's.

[Mavrick]

BST Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.

I dare anyone here to find a another job with as much useless job abilities as BST.

[deces]

BST Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.
DO NOT WANT!

[Edyth]

Yes please:
SMN (this is holy awesome.... 10+ consecutive blood pacts)
NIN (can do something without dying now, and it's pretty good)
PUP (Overdrive doesn't do anything, so yay for doing something)
COR (Wild Card is almost always a letdown... let us roll only XI with full merits please)

Sounds pretty good:
BLU
DNC

Questionable:
WAR (MNK has Formless Strikes on a much lower recast....)
THF (will have to see how effective)
SAM (Meikyo Shisui is really good, you know)

Useless if they share recast with old two-hours:
WHM
BLM
RDM
PLD
BST
BRD (unless it lowers enemy stats so much that it outdoes Soul Voice)
DRG (two seconds later, Wyvern dies anyway against a nasty enemy; plus, it'd have to make the wyvern stronger than a Spirit Surging DRG to be useful; so start pumping out that quadruple digit damage, Chomper!)
SCH (try to find a party leader who wouldn't kick a SCH who pulls that **** instead of Embrava)

Both 2-hours are terrible:
DRK

[Luvbunny]

These seem really weak as a whole. What happened to the person who designed embrava?

He or she got massive schooling on scholary subject as "BARANCE"!!!! and how to please stop giving player a really really good two hours and one that is actually deserved to be called 2 hour job ability. So yeah, we are getting craptastic mostly useless new thing, except you know, Samurai is once again getting a new JA that is actually extremely potent.

[Phogg]

I dare anyone here to find a another job with as much useless job abilities as BST.

Level Name
01 Familiar - Useless
01 Charm - Useless (unless you are crazy like me and farm dyna THF/BST like a bawce)
10 Gauge - Useless
12 Reward - All Right! $$
23 Call Beast - All Right! $$
30 Tame - Useless
75 (Merit) Feral Howl - Useless outside Dynamis
75 (Merit) Killer Instinct - Nifty under the right circumstances

Pet JA's
01 Fight - Yeah, do it.
10 Heel - Kthx
15 Stay - Let's take a picture!
25 Sic - Useless
25 Ready - All right!
35 Leave - Nuuuuuu! Effectively useless since charm when the way of the Dodo pet
45 Snarl - All Right!
83 Spur - All Right!
93 Run Wild - Meh

New 2-hour - Useless

Add Pet JA timer reset and you have something, or try again completely. Otherwise, you have another line in the list of things no one will use.

[Luvbunny]

I dare anyone here to find a another job with as much useless job abilities as BST.

Totally agreed with you, they should redesigned Familiar, and make it pet has more hp, attack, accuracy, evasion and magic defense bonus. With the new 2 hours will let pet to be able to spam Ready move for a 90 seconds, cured all hp and status ailments, plus give it haste, regen 4 and regain for 5 mnts. After all the job is called Beastmaster and not dragoon. This new 2 hours should AFFECT the jug pets!! and not the master.

[Kari]

Dancer's looks better than Trance. It's not going to be super useful, but it's something.

Climactic -> Evisceration -> NFR -> Reverse -> Rudra's -> New 2-hour -> Reverse -> Rudra's

Does Striking Flourish overwrite Climactic?
I suppose I could test by talking to an NPC to stop my timers and try it, but too lazy atm.

If it doesn't, I suppose you could stack that on to the last WS too.
When I first read it, I thought it said that Flourishes would be set to 0 Recast...
I imagined spamming Reverse for the duration. /drool

[scaevola]

I dare anyone here to find a another job with as much useless job abilities as BST.

I'm actually genuinely impressed they managed to come up with a 2-hour for NIN I can say with a straight face is legit worse than Mijin Gakure.

[SpankWustler]

Suddenly, I know how that little Japanese man who lives in an emoticon and flips over tables feels. I give up on cleverly formatting a response to include the cells.

Also, I was hoping that the power of Embrava and Perfect Defense were indicators that the Development Bros had learned how to make super-duper awesome two-hour abilities. That hope just died of complications from a respiratory infection while bed-ridden in a nursing home, suffering from dementia and only visited by its children once a month.

That said, I think a lot of them are pretty cool even though they're not amazing.


WAR - Regular attacks will become non-elemental and grants a drastic increase in accuracy.

This will be extremely useful for between 1-5% of the situations a Warrior would normally be in, such as fighting Naraka in Legion and probably some stuff I can't remember. This would actually be one of the better ones if it didn't have to compete with Mighty Strikes, which is pretty damn mighty.


MNK - Grants a 100% counter-rate against regular attacks from enemies. Also, the amount of enmity gained by this will increase drastically.

Assuming the Development Bros know that Counters currently grant 0 enmity, I could see this being good for what it is. Still, a tanking ability that works best with limited support or incompetent support is unlikely to compete with damage-dealing ability that works best with limited support or incompetent support.


WHM - Grants party members protection from status ailments.

Much better than Benediction in this day and age. I bet it will still be worse than Perfect Defense, although the duration could make all the difference here.


BLM - Grants a drastic decrease in enmity generated by magic attacks.

Something that increased damage would be more useful, since Mana Font does not do that.


RDM - Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.

so much depends
upon

a red mage
ability

given a high
potency

alongside the duration
increase.


THF - Major damage is dealt to the enemy and all enmity will be transferred to the player standing in front of them.

I like major damage!


PLD - Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.

This sounds worse than Invincible for the few situations that players would bring a Paladin to handle. Although, if this reflects a LOT of damage, I have to think someone could find some use for it. There is always a place for heavy damage if a job is already along to do other stuff.


DRK - Steals an enemy's TP through regular attacks while the effect is active.

This could be amazing and this could be horrible. If this is Absorb-TP on every swing, it will be amazing. If the effect is more like the additional effect on Twilight Knife, it will be horrible.


BST - Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.

I assume the Reraise is in the place of the offensive buffs granted by Spirit Surge, and this has no offensive side. If that is the case, this is truly an execrable ability. Run Wild has found a drinking buddy. A drinking buddy who suffers from crippling alcoholism and a failing liver.

If there's no offensive buff, this ability is not good. Not good at all. It's bad. Very bad. BAD END.


BRD - Drastically reduces the magic defense, magic evasion, and INT/MND of the target.

Very few things are killed using magic damage and Soul Voice is a pretty solid 2-hour, so I'm not sure when anyone would use this. It could have an awesome potency and an awesome duration, and I still can't think of when it would be used.

This doesn't sound like a bad ability, but I doubt there's any niche for it.


RNG - The range modifier will become the optimal distance no matter the range to the target. Also, ammunition will not be consumed.

This sounds much better than Eagle Eye Shot, partly because Eagle Eye Shot is so bad. Not a bad addition to Ranger for folks who still use Ranger for zerg-type stuff.


SAM - All damage caused by physical special abilities will be evaded. Additionally, weapon skill damage will increase as more special abilities are evaded.

This sounds great. GOOD END.


NIN - Grants a drastic increase in parry rate. Additionally, Ninjutsu recast times will be reduced by 50% and ninja tools will not be consumed.

This is less awful than Mijin Gakure. That is the nicest thing I can say.

Something that increased damage would be better.


DRG - Wyvern’s HP is completely restored and all status ailments are cured. Additionally, the wyvern’s stats will increase.

This sounds beyond pointless for group activities. Depending on the duration, it might be worthwhile for soloing or in a duo?


SMN - The recast time of both summoning magic and Blood Pacts will become 0 while under the effect of the ability.

It's no Perfect Defense, but I was expecting something much worse. This could be epic for Shock Squall...which is generally only used in the same situations as Perfect Defense...so...uh...Good for finishing something off with five Predator Claws or Heavenly Strikes while in a very small group, I guess.

This isn't bad, but again, it's not Perfect Defense.


BLU - While the ability is in effect, blue magic from Unbridled Learning can be used continuously.

Most of the Unbridled Learning spells aren't even worth casting once every five minutes, so I don't see the point of this. If those spells were adjusted, this ability could be lot of fun.

As it stands, this ability sounds worse than any two-hour ability ever. It has a chance to get a lot better as more monsters are introduced in Seekers of Andoulin, but I won't hold my breath.

Seriously, this one is bad. Worse than the Beastmaster thing. Worse than waking up on the floor of a public restroom. The worst.


COR - Grants the ability to use up to 3 Phantom Roll effects.

Everything depends on the duration and, more importantly, the mechanics. This could be epic. It could also fall flat.


PUP - Automaton will use special abilities. Special ability usage will depend on the automaton head.
Harlequin Head: Mighty Strikes
Valoredge Head: Invincible
Sharpshot Head: Eagle Eye Shot
Stormwaker Head: Chainspell
Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will only apply to the master and automaton)
Spiritreaver Head: Manafont

Really awesome concept but the execution is really clumsy.

This would be infinitely more useful if Mighty Strikes were moved to Valoredge, and Eagle Eye Shot as well as Benediction-lite were replaced by something else. Benediction-lite, in particular, is really bad.


DNC - Grants maximum amount of Finishing Moves and the recast time of all Flourishes will be reset.
Additionally, while the ability is in effect, Finishing Moves will not be consumed.

This is really nice. What Trance is to Dancer's atrophied healing side, this ability will be to Dancer's relatively healthy stuff-hitting side. Not amazing or game-breaking, but this sounds very nice.

I'd like to think that the Development Bros' bitterness after Byrth and roughly one-hundred other people made fun of their newborn Ternary Flourish helped motivate them while they making this. Shaking their fists at the sky with vengeful thoughts in their minds, the Development Bros set out to make a time when all flourishes are useful.


SCH - Will direct enmity of all party members to an indicated player.

This is interesting, and surprisingly strong given how timid the Development Bros usually are with enmity, but it's not Embrava. This is not Embrava.

EMBRAVA.

[Kavik]

Job Effects
WAR Regular attacks will become non-elemental and grants a drastic increase in accuracy.

^-- Meh, mnk already has this in Formless strikes, this would be a good new JA for war, but not a 2hr.

MNK Grants a 100% counter-rate against regular attacks from enemies. Also, the amount of enmity gained by this will increase drastically.

^-- This seems redundant to what mnk already has. Bolded section: you are introducing a new tank sometime within the next 6-12 months and you are giving a unintentional tank job something that increases their enmity by a large amount? That's just a fuck you to anyone trying to tank, scenerio, mnk pulls hate, hits this 2hr for whatecer reason, looks whose the tank for the rest of the fight unless they die.

WHM Grants party members protection from status ailments.

^-- Um barspells? ^ reads to me as AoE Fealty which is largely useless and would be even more so useless only every 2 hrs. This would be epic as a new regular JA however.

BLM Grants a drastic decrease in enmity generated by magic attacks.

^-- with enmity douse this is not really an issue anymore. Unless enmity douse is down, then u need to be intelligent and not go batshit with spells.

RDM Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.

^-- why? As most people have said, unless you make them AoE it's pointless.

THF Major damage is dealt to the enemy and all enmity will be transferred to the player standing in front of them.

^-- Current enmity? Enmity developed during this 'assault'?

PLD Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.

^-- Add in a increase in enmity cap while this is active and i could see this being REALLY useful.

DRK Steals an enemy's TP through regular attacks while the effect is active.

^-- Not a drk personally but knowing that drk is a DD job and this would let u spam more ws, i could see it being useful

BST Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.

^-- no, just no. Let us use tp abilities without the tp restriction or take off the recast on tp abilities or something.

BRD Drastically reduces the magic defense, magic evasion, and INT/MND of the target.

^-- .... meh, you COULD let us have 3 songs for one brd?

RNG The range modifier will become the optimal distance no matter the range to the target. Also, ammunition will not be consumed.

^-- Not a rng but only useful thing there is no ammo consumed.

SAM All damage caused by physical special abilities will be evaded. Additionally, weapon skill damage will increase as
more special abilities are evaded.

^-- This seems like a tank ability, not a sam ability.

NIN Grants a drastic increase in parry rate. Additionally, Ninjutsu recast times will be reduced by 50% and ninja tools will not be consumed.

^-- Nin already got this... they don't need an another ability for it?

DRG Wyvern’s HP is completely restored and all status ailments are cured. Additionally, the wyvern’s stats will increase.

^-- It'd have to be a lot... like make the pet entirely impervious to dmg.

SMN The recast time of both summoning magic and Blood Pacts will become 0 while under the effect of the ability.

^-- Overpowered a tad.

BLU While the ability is in effect, blue magic from Unbridled Learning can be used continuously.

^-- As a regular blu this is f'ing epic.

COR Grants the ability to use up to 3 Phantom Roll effects.

^--- ... yay?

PUP Automaton will use special abilities. Special ability usage will depend on the automaton head.
Harlequin Head: Mighty Strikes
Valoredge Head: Invincible
Sharpshot Head: Eagle Eye Shot
Stormwaker Head: Chainspell
Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will only apply to the master and automaton)
Spiritreaver Head: Manafont

^-- Eh better then overdrive, not by much though.

DNC Grants maximum amount of Finishing Moves and the recast time of all Flourishes will be reset.
Additionally, while the ability is in effect, Finishing Moves will not be consumed.

^-- Dnc does not really have long enough recast timers to worry about flourish timers, the finising moves would come down to duration.

SCH Will direct enmity of all party members to an indicated player.

^-- Like pull everyone elses enmity off and put it on say the tank? Or make all future enmities directed at that person? If the latter that would help with tanking problems and make sch very useful in a tank situation.

[scaevola]

It's actually tragic that the one two-hour that has a neat, not-at-all-overpowered strategic application was given to SCH, which will proceed to never, ever use it.

Should roll the entire SCH two-hour into THF's tbqh.

EDIT: For those wondering, the DNC one really is quite powerful; the limiting factor for Flourishes (and really, the big reason everybody's always dogging on the Group 3 Flourishes) is how quickly you can get FMs and how using those FMs for anything other than Reverse is a false choice 90% of the time. This ability resolves that, so while Rudra's obviously benefits the most, being able to use Striking/Ternary with no regard to Reverse is good for everybody. Again, its actual usefulness obviously comes down to duration, though.

[Riggs]

thf 2 hour, is this spike damage i.e. 1 hit or an increase in damage for 30 seconds?
does it still work if no player is standing in front of you .i.e. solo?

[renasci]

Completely unimpressed by BLU.

If it gave access to your -entire- spell list, like BLUs have been asking for as a JA for... forever, then maybe we'd be getting somewhere.


Most of the Unbridled Learning spells aren't even worth casting once every five minutes, so I don't see the point of this.

[detlef]

BRD new 2hour sounds great if you have way too many BRDs. This seems to happen all the time and I'm glad somebody finally addressed it.

[Tamarsamar]

Honestly, RDMs shouldn't be complaining about the new 2-Hour. We already have the best dang 2-Hour Ability in the entire game, so anything they could've possibly given us afterwards was bound to be worse.

[scaevola]

BRD new 2hour sounds great if you have way too many BRDs. This seems to happen all the time and I'm glad somebody finally addressed it.

best post so far

[Lastranger]

well SE is bloody stuborn on the whole AOE on RDM, at this point idk why though, they have changed their vision on so many jobs and made loads of alterations that they originaly didnt want for those job's.

Drg 2 hour was fixed to a 20 min JA, nin went from DD to tank, sam from tank to DD, sch got regen 5 instead of cure 5 etc.

I still think they should swap out rdm enhancing and enfeebling to AOE as well on that job as it was the original main holder of those abilitys before new jobs came, RDM has given tons of spells to other jobs its time for it to get some back.

The new 2 hour with AOE spells would be very usefull, just think 50+ boost str, 40% DA, double haste, enspell dmg on top, double value stoneskinra for almost900 or so dmg resist, double phalanx effect, double shellra 5 effect and bareffect. ofc limited to only once evry 2 hours, but even with 2 hour burned these would secure a room for rdm.

ofc it all comes down to how long 2 hour effect last if u only got 30 sec to cast ur spells u might have to prioritize witch is best for situation, but even as is with rdm/sch u should be able to do AOE Shell V and all other enhancing spells that are castable as aoe with /sch.


As for the Rng 2 hour im a bit divided, why do they try to fix ammo usage with a 2 hour ? id probably been more happy to have gotten a does 4x dmg a shoot for x time at 1/4 enemitty and carries over to WS or a TP regain giving 50 tp a tick for 45sec -2 min for rapid zerg with greatly lowered enemitty under 2 hour effect.
As for the ammo isue, if this is se answer to some of the ammo problems they doing it wrong, just up the way to make adaman bullets etc for less materials, or add some new Recycle JA that grants 50% or higher chance of recycle proc under effect, lasting 2-3 min recast 5 min.

As for the BST 2 hour, what where they thinking ?
BSt allready complaining about loss of pets on zones etc from jug and they add another eat ur jug JA that takes ur pet away ....
Heres what BST new 2 hour should be Grants access to all PET Ws ( including sevral they left out on sevral pet's ) or a regain/haste/DA effect on pet for 2-5 min with endless points to use on pet sic ws, allowing u to finish a kill on target faster on stronger targets.
Or even a Callable 2 hour pet ( mayby a chocobo like from origin story of BST ) or a Opo Opo NM pet with special sic attacks and higher then regular jug pet stats, just so many sugestions and they went with killing ur jug/charm pet or a DRG 2hour copy.

i wonder though if the Sam 2 hour might end up supa overpowered.

[Byrth]

Does Striking Flourish overwrite Climactic?
I suppose I could test by talking to an NPC to stop my timers and try it, but too lazy atm.

If it doesn't, I suppose you could stack that on to the last WS too.
When I first read it, I thought it said that Flourishes would be set to 0 Recast...
I imagined spamming Reverse for the duration. /drool

Nope. None of the Tier 3 Flourishes stack. Random trivia, but they also share the same buff spot as Sneak Attack, so they don't stack with that either.

I wish it did give Flourishes 0 recast and make them cost no FMs. Then we could really have some fun. That is what I originally thought it did from the JP version and I got excited. When the NA version was posted, that was downgraded to "At least it's still better than Trance." Realistically, though, I'm not going to be using this except in the rare situations when I know I won't be playing a job with a more useful 2-hour any time soon. I can use it for another 6000-7000 damage once per Limbus farming run or Assault spam (the only things I seem to do on DNC anymore) assuming I switch Twashtar to the main hand.

Really, unless they make it the way I thought it was I'm not sure this 2-hour has much potential.

[Xerius]

Cool so SAM is getting Perfect Dodge ++ and THF is getting TA + on a 2hr timer and this is considered balanced? I really hope that "Major Damage" isn't the same as "Severe Damage" from Coruscanti.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Honestly, RDMs shouldn't be complaining about the new 2-Hour. We already have the best dang 2-Hour Ability in the entire game, so anything they could've possibly given us afterwards was bound to be worse.

Huh? Chainspell isn't all that....

[Tamarsamar]

Huh? Chainspell isn't all that....

I honestly beg to differ. There are few situations that can't be improved with Chainspell.

[Aldarin]

So I really only play DRG, but to be honest this seems like we get nothing, in addition to a semi-useless 2hr we already have.
DRG 1st 2hr- Basically the same thing as the BST 2nd that everyone else can mention as useless. The only thing we get is some Haste, which can be gotten through other means, and reduces the effectiveness of our other job abilities.

DRG 2nd 2hr - Hey look, its spirit surge, only with a 2hr recast.......honestly. Spirit surge currently heals a very nice amount of HP, like 1/2, and then grants a regen effect. This happens every 1min 30secs. If our wyvern hasn't been staying alive due to this, then it's probably not going to stay alive during this 2hr without it getting invincible. Other than that I can see this being like a DRG version of Familiar, which is better than our current 2hr, but still fairly useless.

Here are some nice changes that could be done.
lower recast on Call Wyvern - make it 5 min, like Call Beast
merge Jump with Spirit Jump - there is no reason for 2 abilities, they share the same recast timer anyways, Spirit Jump is just an upgrade of Jump.
merge High Jump with Soul Jump.
give fight, heel, and stay commands for wyvern.
then give us a useful 2hr, or a couple of stances, like nin and sam have.

[Theytak]

Will you all stop saying that pup's new 2hour is "good" "not useless" "better than overdrive" or anything else that isn't "it's shit" please? Seriously, it's not better than overdrive, and overdrive is terrible. It's nothing more than a gimmick to amuse unintelligent players and those not well-enough informed about mechanics to recognize why it's terrible.

[scaevola]

Cool so SAM is getting Perfect Dodge ++ and THF is getting TA + on a 2hr timer and this is considered balanced?

Slow your roll, dude. It only stops TP moves, many of which can be stopped by Third Eye already anyway.

It's not the worst of these, sure, but there are still not that many situations where I'd use it over Meikyo (which I consider to be on-the-whole mediocre).

[cidbahamut]

Huh? Chainspell isn't all that....

I don't know what it is you're smoking but I want some.

Chainspell is boss.

[Edyth]

So I really only play DRG, but to be honest this seems like we get nothing, in addition to a semi-useless 2hr we already have.
DRG 1st 2hr- Basically the same thing as the BST 2nd that everyone else can mention as useless. The only thing we get is some Haste, which can be gotten through other means, and reduces the effectiveness of our other job abilities.

DRG 2nd 2hr - Hey look, its spirit surge, only with a 2hr recast.......honestly. Spirit surge currently heals a very nice amount of HP, like 1/2, and then grants a regen effect. This happens every 1min 30secs. If our wyvern hasn't been staying alive due to this, then it's probably not going to stay alive during this 2hr without it getting invincible. Other than that I can see this being like a DRG version of Familiar, which is better than our current 2hr, but still fairly useless.

You don't even know the name of your only job's 2-hour, so I wouldn't consider you an authority on anything DRG-related. Spirit Surge is your 2-hour. It restores the recast timers on all Jumps and transfers your Wyvern's TP and HP and stat bonuses to you, as well as a potent haste effect. It's better than many jobs' two-hours. With all the TP you get from your wyvern and then your restored jumps (which you should use right before Spirit Surge), you deal a very large spike of damage. The only bad thing about Spirit Surge is if your Call Wyvern timer is down.

You're thinking of Spirit Link.

[Lastranger]

Hmm also a bit confused about the pld and shc 2 hours, if the sch one was for pld and worked as a constant Area effect zeroing out evyone else enemitty and giving it to selft it might be usefull, then have a thf use his new 2 hour behind pld to bind hate on pally.

At this point idk if more block/defence is what pally's want?
Seems like the new mnk 2 hour just had mnk steal pld's place as nm holder in multi nm zergs
and the War 2 hour is like a rehash of mnk merit ability with a little ++ on top.

The blm one also seems lackluster, why not just add a doubles dmg done with spells for x amount of time.

the drg one has some promise, as others said if it's boost is great ( maybe have the wyvrn get access to mini flail under 2 hour as a pet ability with a tiny stun ) if the wyvrn got like -85% DT or something it might be usefull for those big aoe fighs

the cor one seemed a bit disapointing for a 2hour, a 3rd roll ? thats more like something u could add as tier 3 job meritt not 2 hour, wouldnt something like a luck based boost to curent rolls or Devils luck ability giving the cor loads of TH effect on target be more inline with cor theme ? mayby even a doubles treasure drop ability depending on corr 2 hour roll, giving 2 off evrything in a chest if u lucky out.

[Xilk]

I saw the post and immediately checked bst...
"What?! we are EATING our pet!?" I lol'd and lol'd and lol'd and lol'd... I'm still lolling at the dark humor.

Practically speaking, the merit has already been said: Run Wild's drinking companion.

Our hopes were so high for run wild. The description says it will expire the pet in 5 min, but that was OK, because the description really made it sound like our PETs would burn up all their wild energy DESTROYING our foe... but they just get a nifty regen until they die. I only ever use this when I get the 5 min warning in dynamis. I don't even need to. This has never saved me. I usually forget it exists.

Watered down spirit surge is disappointing in the same way. It sounds like the idea is to save our bacon when we are in a DIRE situation... uhmm Let me explain when a DIRE situation is for bst.. ITS WHEN YOUR PET IS GONE and you can't get'him back! If I wanted to SACRIFICE my pet, it would be to get a Full Spirit Surge effect. I would want the DD output for a ZERG attack. I've already got twilight set for auto RR3 whenever I need it or 1/2 a dozen other great sources for RR.

This is the kind of 2hour a solo bst might have liked years ago when things just went wrong, you are out in the middle of nowhere and you are going to lose the last 2 hours of xp and travel back to camp...

Inverting the direction would be more useful.. putting the master in a weakened state, but completely restoring pet/cure status and give it RERAISE.. but still not great.

I would much rather get a similar effect to the pup's new 2-hour. Let my War pet do mighty strikes, my mnk do 100 fists, my thf pet do perfect dodge, PLD type to invincible, etc... Even better would just be Pet-family specific Super moves.

I agree w/ spankwustler on blue mage and pup as well. The blue mage unbridled learning spells are just not that impressive... I guess you might look at this a defensive blu 2-hour (cuz Azure lore is pretty sweet since it was updated). In that casting bloodrake, hardened shell, pyrhic bulwark all close together could save you in a physical tanking situation... maybe... probably too slow though.. its just not that good. When you have to look for extreme situations to find a use for a 2-HOUR ability... then there's a serious problem.

Pup the idea is really cool. I really liked the idea when I read it, but the practical application really pulls the wind out of its sails.

I like the sustained perfect counter for mnk idea. waiting to see how it goes.

SMN looks like a fun ability
WHM looks useful.. provided it also CURES all status effects first, right? (I mean it SHOULD go w/out saying, but I'm nervous w/ that phrase...)
WAR Thats a plenty useful ability
THF sounds great
DNC sounds great
SAM sounds great
SCH sounds nifty and fun.
blm means you can nuke w/ abandon


I don't have opinion on the rest.

[Theytak]

Alright, raging over pup's 2hour aside,


WAR - Regular attacks will become non-elemental and grants a drastic increase in accuracy.
This would be an awesome JA to have situationally, but it's really not 2hour worthy, even if it would easily be stronger than formless strikes, by the nature of formless strikes being non-elemental magical damage, while this implies non-elemental physical damage. Unless the game treats those two as the same thing and I'm just behind on the times.


MNK - Grants a 100% counter-rate against regular attacks from enemies. Also, the amount of enmity gained by this will increase drastically.
I... what. I know you guys announced this one at vanafest, but it still doesn't make sense, because it's basically an offensive version of perfect dodge, that's not even as good for staying alive because you can't counter TP moves (which is a fair trade for the damage gain). However... why in the world would you put enmity gain on this? It makes absolutely no sense...


WHM - Grants party members protection from status ailments.
Party-wide Fealty? That's useful, at least. Somewhat situational, but useful nonetheless.


BLM - Grants a drastic decrease in enmity generated by magic attacks.
This will depend entirely on the duration and the amount of the reduction. Looking at the rest of this list, though, my money's on "It won't be enough to matter."


RDM - Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.
That's awesome, you know, for all of those self-target only buffs that don't really get any use because rdm can't cast them on anyone else, so it basically just means they get to 2hour and buff refresh II/haste, for ghetto embrava, hold the regain. Seriously, what in the world are the devs thinking?


THF - Major damage is dealt to the enemy and all enmity will be transferred to the player standing in front.
This is a very nice option for thf. The devs get points for this one.


PLD - Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.
So you're basically giving pld palisade and reprisal. Again. On a 2 hour recast timer. At the cost of Invincible. Did you guys put any thought into this, or did you forget that you added palisade?


DRK - Steals an enemy's TP through regular attacks while the effect is active.
This is going depend heavily on two things; its proc rate, and its potency. If it lasts as long as blood weapon, it should be fine. However, if its potency is not respectable (read: 2-5 TP drained is not respectable), and/or it's proc rate is not 100%, it will be be very hard justifying it over the souleater+bloodweapon combo. If it's a moderate (at least 50%) proc rate, it needs to have a significant amount of TP drain per hit. If it's 100% proc rate, it can afford a lower TP drain due to the nature of how strong it would be in high haste situations.


BST - Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.
This is just garbage. Bst is the one pet job that DOESN'T benefit from auto-killing their pet for a JA. Smns can belt out new pets every couple of seconds, and drg wyverns are basically just their for extra TP in jumps and healing breaths. Pup can survive and thrive on its own even without a pet, and probably would have benefited from a spirit surge-esque ability like this (however, trading your pet for ghetto benediction and reraise is just stupid; at the very least it should function the same way as spirit surge: buffs and extra TP).


BRD - Drastically reduces the magic defense, magic evasion, and INT/MND of the target.
Shared recast means this will never get used, because Soulvoice is better in every way. However, Soul Voice is so amazing as it is, it's understandable, I can't even fathom anything else being able to come close to soul voice in terms of usefulness.


RNG - The range modifier will become the optimal distance no matter the range to the target. Also, ammunition will not be consumed.
Congratulations, you've managed to do better than Eagle Eye Shot. This isn't even remotely worth a 2 hour recast timer, but it's better than Eagle Eye Shot. Seriously, what kind of 2 hour can miss...


SAM - While the ability is in effect, all damage caused by the physical special abilities will be evaded. Additionally, weapon skill damage will increase as more special abilities are evaded.
Shared recast means this will never get used, because Meikyo Shisui is better in every way.


NIN - Grants a drastic increase in parry rate. Additionally, Ninjutsu recast times will be reduced by 50% and ninja tools will not be consumed.
Whether or not this is more useful than Mijin Gakure doesn't really matter, since it's basically just Issekigan on a 2 hour timer with added Ninja Tool Expertise and Recast Reduction. I'd say it would be a lot more useful even if you'd added "Ninjutsu casting times will be reduced by 50%" as well.


DRG - Wyvern’s HP is completely restored and all status ailments are cured. Additionally, the wyvern’s stats will increase.
....so you're giving drg the modern equivalent of Call Wyvern as their 2 hour again....


SMN - The recast time of both summoning magic and Blood Pacts will become 0 while under the effect of the ability.
This one is hot, the devs get points for this.


BLU - While the ability is in effect, blue magic from Unbridled Learning can be used continuously.
Shared recast means this will never get used, because azure lore is better in every way.


COR - Grants the ability to use up to 3 Phantom Roll effects.
This doesn't really seem like it should be a 2hour, so much as it should be something you slapped on Death Penalty, the way brd has Daurdabla.


DNC - Grants maximum amount of Finishing Moves and the recast time of all Flourishes will be reset.
Additionally, while the ability is in effect, Finishing Move will not be consumed.
This was a lot more impressive in the google translated version, which made it sound like it was setting the flourish recasts to 0 as well, but it's still not that bad.


SCH - Will direct enmity of all party members to an indicated player.
Why did you give this to scholar? Shared recast means this will never get used, because Tabula Rasa, by which I mean Embrava, is better in every way. Both pld and nin would make far, far, far better use of this ability...

So....

Thf is very good.
Smn is very good.
Drk is potentially very good
Dnc is potentially good
Whm is useful
Blm is potentially useful

Cor is potentially useful but whether or not it's really fair to give them this as a 2hour, and not as something else, is questionable.
Mnk is potentially useful, but the enmity is a really weird point and may become an issue
War is potentially useful, but not really 2hour material
Rdm is... good in theory, but made pointless because rdm is not able to actually benefit from many of its self-only buffs (lookin' at you, Temper) so this really just gives rdm a ghetto soulvoice/embrava substitute. It's not the worst by any stretch, but it could use a lot of work.

Brd might be useful, but it won't ever be worth using over soul voice.
Sam probably won't ever get used over Meikyo shisui, and isn't really 2 hour material anyway.
Blu is made useless by the fact that none of the unbridled learning spells are worth using, and and spamming them won't ever be able to touch the things Azure Lore can do, so this new ability will never be used.
Sch is incredibly useful in theory, but because you want to give it to SCHOLAR, it will never get used, because it will never out weigh Embrava. Give sch's ability to pld or nin, seriously.

Rng is an improvement over Eagle Eye Shot, but isn't really 2 hour material
Nin is a repeat of another ability, but is situationally an improvement over Mijin Gakure. It should be better, but it's not absolutely terrible.

Pld is absolutely pointless because pld already has that exact ability in palisade (with reprisal up) on a much, much, much shorter recast timer.
Bst is utterly worthless
Drg is utterly worthless
Pup is utterly worthless

So the final score is:
Good Abilities: 3/20 ~ 6/20 (depending on potentially good abilities)
Potentially Good Abilities: 3/20
Abilities that aren't bad but probably need rethinking: 8/20 (including the next category)
Abilities that aren't necessarily bad, won't ever get used because of the other 2hour: 4/20
Abilities that are better than their old option, only because the old option was terrible: 2/20
Abilities that need to be completely scrapped and something else considered instead: 4/20

So in other words, 6 managed to get 6 right, and the rest of them need to be looked at, and several of them thrown out entirely.

[FrankReynolds]

WAR Regular attacks will become non-elemental and grants a drastic increase in accuracy.

Sounds neat. I'm not sure this really warrants a 2hr cool down, but it's probably got a use or two.



MNK Grants a 100% counter-rate against regular attacks from enemies. Also, the amount of enmity gained by this will increase drastically.

This sounds like it would be useful for blocking 100 fists and / or 1-2 other things. Just doesn't sound that great considering that regular attacks aren't really a major concern like aoe / magic stuff is.


WHM Grants party members protection from status ailments.

This could be extremely useful on NMs that spam that sort of stuff.


BLM Grants a drastic decrease in enmity generated by magic attacks.

Should just change this to "removes all enmity from magic attacks"


RDM Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.

This could go soooo well, or sooooo wrong. I expect the latter based on previous experiences.


THF Major damage is dealt to the enemy and all enmity will be transferred to the player standing in front of them.

So trick attack on a 2 hour timer? what did I ever do to you?


PLD Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.

see monk


DRK Steals an enemy's TP through regular attacks while the effect is active.

Will this literally steal TP? If so it could be a great way to keep TP moves in check while crushing NMS. Will this be nerfed for K-clubs as well?


BST Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.

If by "absorbs the pet", you mean that the master will add all of the pets stats / abilities to his own, then great (I know this isn't what you meant). Otherwise this sucks. Just plain sucks.


BRD Drastically reduces the magic defense, magic evasion, and INT/MND of the target.

I can't picture this being better than current 2 hr ever, but sure...



RNG The range modifier will become the optimal distance no matter the range to the target. Also, ammunition will not be consumed.

Seems cool


SAM All damage caused by physical special abilities will be evaded. Additionally, weapon skill damage will increase as more special abilities are evaded.

This seems like it would have very limited usage, especially if the increase in ws damage isn't awesome.


NIN Grants a drastic increase in parry rate. Additionally, Ninjutsu recast times will be reduced by 50% and ninja tools will not be consumed.

I could see where this would be extremely handy, especially when compared to suicide.


DRG Wyvern’s HP is completely restored and all status ailments are cured. Additionally, the wyvern’s stats will increase.

If this makes the DRG insanely strong, then yay. Otherwise meh.


SMN The recast time of both summoning magic and Blood Pacts will become 0 while under the effect of the ability.

This actually sounds pretty kick ass (unless it only lasts like 10 seconds).


BLU While the ability is in effect, blue magic from Unbridled Learning can be used continuously.

hmmmm...



DNC Grants maximum amount of Finishing Moves and the recast time of all Flourishes will be reset. Additionally, while the ability is in effect, Finishing Moves will not be consumed.

I picture this getting screwed up more often than not when in actual use (ie. mob stuns you / amnesias you etc.).


SCH Will direct enmity of all party members to an indicated player.

Why isn't this a Thief ability on a 20 minute timer?

[Oakrest]

[PLD] Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.

What an insult to my Ochain! How about some damage or enmity control instead? Don't we already have Reprisal? This is just adding a duplicate of that spell in job-ability form. Even for non-relic paladins, having more shield block is going to do nothing when the mob is facing the thf or the mnk or the [insert fast melee job here]... please understand my good intentions with this feedback :)

Please don't let pld become more and more useless ... :(

[FrankReynolds]

However... why in the world would you put enmity gain on this? It makes absolutely no sense...


because this does absolutely nothing if the mob doesn't attack you.

[Alistaire]

Some of these are truly awful. Take them back to the drawing board and try again.

Most of these are truly awful. The designers should really play this game sometime; despite how horribly they manage it, it's a pretty cool game.

[scaevola]

I think the RDM one would come down to whether it can buff enhancing spells that don't normally scale that well/at all. Mega Phalanx/Pro/Shell/Barspell with Accession is not Perfect Defense, but it has some potential (especially since that Proshell will be lasting the whole half hour; I'd love running around with a 350 defense ProV and a 35% Shell for the entirety of a small-group event), especially since RDM can then bring some other stuff to the table with its two-hour, like Hella Enspells.

Once again, duration's going to be important to that one, if only because it will dictate how many self-buffs you can Accession out. I wouldn't say it's a balls-out amazing 2-hour (i mean, how would i even know at this point) but the durations of the buffs you apply with it make it worth a second look. I don't play RDM like at all; could anyone tell me if Composure's durational extensions apply to party members when you Accession out those buffs?

[Zhronne]

Mnk is potentially useful, but the enmity is a really weird point and may become an issue
I think they meant it as a tank-like ability. That probably was their idea altough... since when do you rely on a job who can tank once every 2hrs supposedly for 1 min or slightly more?
Since when does MNK need this to keep hate from other jobs?
Still, it's a defensive additional option, why not having it and using it situationally.
Another good part of having enmity is that the mob will be facing you => you will be countering => more damage.
You can't counter if mob is facing someone else of course.
I dunno, this is probably not what I was looking like but it has potential.


Brd might be useful, but it won't ever be worth using over soul voice.
Seriously, this should have been a song, with much lower potency of course.
Using it as a 2hr... uh... if it sticks 100% of the itme (lol@using it and seeing it resisted!) and lasts A LOT of time, it might be useful on some fights actually.


Sam probably won't ever get used over Meikyo shisui, and isn't really 2 hour material anyway.
I think you're greatly underestimating this.
It depends on how much it lasts of course, but think about a good sam with a good defensive setup, like the ones we used to have when we killed Atoreis with SAM tanks, imagine them using this skill and shooting powerful WS.
It depends on a lot of factors like how long it lasts and how much it boosts WSs, if this boosts "reset" when you take damage etc.
But potentially it's a pretty awesome alternative to Meikyo Shisui.
SAM already has an awesome offensive 2hr, this one just offers a defensive/offensive alternative, I like it a lot on paper.

Sch is incredibly useful in theory, but because you want to give it to SCHOLAR, it will never get used, because it will never out weigh Embrava. Give sch's ability to pld or nin, seriously. [/quote]
Incredibly useful? Really? To be able to move enmity on someone? So much enmity that probably would go mostly wasted because of the enmity cap?
And you can use it once ecery 2hr? Sounds pretty preposterous to me lol


Rng is an improvement over Eagle Eye Shot, but isn't really 2 hour material
Why not? Sounds nice to me, not just "better than EES". I like it personally. Won't gamebreaking but it looks like a nice 2hr, especially for Annihilator owners!


Pld is absolutely pointless because pld already has that exact ability in palisade (with reprisal up) on a much, much, much shorter recast timer.
Well if it makes your shield activate more than an Ochain, lasts long enough and returns A LOT of damage, it could be nice.
Honestly I was expecting them to give PLD a magic damage Invincible, guess that would have been too obvious...



Pup is utterly worthless
As much as I agree with the points you exposed earlier and with this JA looking nice to who doesn't know PUP very well but being shit in reality, I don't agree with your extreme pessimism.
Doesn't look worse than Overdrive to me. Benediction is cool (did you seriously expect them to give us a full party benediction? Can you imagine the rants from WHMs?).
Invincible on Valoredge is a bit... ehr... well let's say it's not completely useless, depending on how much it lasts, but try not to be too much disappointed just because you "wanted Mighty Strikes for VE".
EES won't necessarily do less damage than Armor Shatter. If the damage is interesting you could use it right after an armorshatter and stack a lot of spike damage in a few seconds. Not awesome but, again, sounds better than Overdrive.
Chainspell too looks really nice on paper to me, altough MP might become an issue there. Doubt we'll be able to ADD and keep the 2hr buff up.
All in all the spiritreaver one looks the most ridiculous to me because, like you already said, we virtually have infinite MP in most situations.
For BLM doll Overdrive is probably a better 2hr, especially with the +15 additional seconds from AF. Alllows to spam Ice Maker for 60 seconds etc.
lolOverdrive ist better for Valoredge too if you want damage, but the new 2hr gives you an ADDITIONAL option, while the new 2hr looks much better for Stormwaker, Soulsoother and lolHarlequin.

Dunno, this is not an awesome 2hr but it looks better than Overdrive.
What were you expecting for PUP, seriously?


What leaves me a bit skeptic is the fact that, imho, these 2hr will have to be unlocked with merit points just like WS, and there will be a cap so you won't be able to get all of them =/

[Oakrest]

I'm seriously concerned as to who the 5 people were that liked the OP - you either didn't read all of the job 2 hours, or are one of the very few jobs in that list that got something useful (i.e. thf). That, or 5 dev's liked it ^^

[FrankReynolds]

I'm seriously concerned as to who the 5 people were that liked the OP - you either didn't read all of the job 2 hours, or are one of the very few jobs in that list that got something useful (i.e. thf). That, or 5 dev's liked it ^^

Do you really think trick attack is a good 2hr?

[Demon6324236]

Honestly, RDMs shouldn't be complaining about the new 2-Hour. We already have the best dang 2-Hour Ability in the entire game, so anything they could've possibly given us afterwards was bound to be worse.

Honestly to me its a solo 2Hour, Chainspell is more a party 2hour with the use of CSS and all that, but this should make us very powerful when we use this and then buff. Sadly with this we also basically lose any chance at ever seeing Renew because to refresh the duration timers for RDM after this would mean you get super buffs for 2hours, SE would never let us have something so awesome -_-;

[Cabalabob]

Rng looks awful, unless i misunderstand what it's saying it's basically unlimited shot with emp feet on...

[Demon6324236]

Slow your roll, dude. It only stops TP moves, many of which can be stopped by Third Eye already anyway.

It's not the worst of these, sure, but there are still not that many situations where I'd use it over Meikyo (which I consider to be on-the-whole mediocre).

Think of Ironclads, Harpia, that kinda thing, where all that they use is TPs... oh the wonders...

[Demon6324236]

Do you really think trick attack is a good 2hr?

If its trick attack on every hit for 30 seconds, meaning with the DMG boost from AGI and all that, yeah, could kick some ass!

[Ophannus]

Think the THF ability is gonna be a fulltime trick attack that doesnt wear off for its duration.

[FrankReynolds]

Think the THF ability is gonna be a fulltime trick attack that doesnt wear off for its duration.

That would kick ass, but I'm 99% sure it's just going to be a more powerful trick attack, that will transfer all your enmity (not just the enmity from that hit).

[Keyln]

I'm going to talk about the ones that I really care about.

SMN - Awesome awesome awesome, especially when soloing. Being able to spam Predator claws or some other Offensive BPs is going to be supremely powerful, especially against NMs. Probably won't use, though, in lieu of Alexander.

PUP - Man, so much haterade on this new ability. I, for one, think this new ability is rather awesome. The way I see it, each automaton is set in a certain way, and emulates certain jobs or certain roles.

Mighty Strikes - Harelquinn isn't generally a useful automaton. I would use it, though, for this ability. Put it on a Sharpshot frame, and then spam TP moves. When it's done spamming, I would change the auto back to full Sharpshot.

Invincible - The Valoredge frame is NOT a WAR or a PLD frame, but a tanking frame, and should be looked at. And there is no ability that best helps tanking than Invincible. So, I think it's appropriate, and I would use it if I had the automaton tanking something.

Eagle Eye Shot - This goes well with the Sharpshot frame, as it's a high physical damage frame. It has potential, considering that the frame doesn't suffer from ranged damage problems that can pop up with Ranger. The only real question is how much damage does it do compared to the weaponskills. If it can't devastate Armor Shatter, it'll be useless.

Chainspell - Could be useful, especially as a zerg move. Although, if the automaton still is under the global recast, then this ability will be rather useless.

Benediction - A very useful HSB when soloing. If things go really go south (I'm half dead, and I pulled a link), this can be a lifesaver.

Manafont - Similar to Chainspell, it'll only be useful if the automaton is allowed to cast quickly.

DNC - Similar to trance, it could be useful to spam finishing moves willy-nilly. The only limitation, though, will be the recast timers on Finishing Moves. While the timers are reset, they probably won't be set at 0 for the duration of the move.

SCH - I think it's useless, even if Embrava wasn't there. Any tank worth his salt will be hitting the enmity cap very quickly in a fight, and the only thing this ability might do is temporarily remove hate from other party members. Maybe if it increased the enmity cap of the person receiving the hate, then I could see it being useful. Add in Embrava, and it's really useless.

Overall, I'm fairly impressed with the new abilities, and I can't wait to test them on the test server.

[Hashmalum]

BRD new 2hour sounds great if you have way too many BRDs. This seems to happen all the time and I'm glad somebody finally addressed it.Actually, I believe that was the purpose of the new SCH 2 hour.

More seriously: New WHM 2 hour needs to remove status when used if it doesn't already. New RDM 2 hour needs some kind of ability to cast self-only buffs on others. New BST 2 hour needs to be put to sleep (to grant the dev team reraise and full HP). Reserving comment on the others.

[Theytak]

I think they meant it as a tank-like ability. That probably was their idea altough... since when do you rely on a job who can tank once every 2hrs supposedly for 1 min or slightly more?
Since when does MNK need this to keep hate from other jobs?
Still, it's a defensive additional option, why not having it and using it situationally.
Another good part of having enmity is that the mob will be facing you => you will be countering => more damage.
You can't counter if mob is facing someone else of course.
I dunno, this is probably not what I was looking like but it has potential.
Yea, that's kind of what I was getting at. It's one thing as a defensive ability, but that's different from a tank ability. I'm not saying the enmity's necessarily a bad decision, I'd need to see it in practice to decide that, but it's still... weird...


I think you're greatly underestimating this.
It depends on how much it lasts of course, but think about a good sam with a good defensive setup, like the ones we used to have when we killed Atoreis with SAM tanks, imagine them using this skill and shooting powerful WS.
It depends on a lot of factors like how long it lasts and how much it boosts WSs, if this boosts "reset" when you take damage etc.
But potentially it's a pretty awesome alternative to Meikyo Shisui.
SAM already has an awesome offensive 2hr, this one just offers a defensive/offensive alternative, I like it a lot on paper.
It's entirely possible I may be underestimating it, and I hadn't considered the possibilities using it against something like an iron clad with TP moves for regular attacks, but it still seems like glorified Seigan-3rd eye to me, so I really don't know.


Incredibly useful? Really? To be able to move enmity on someone? So much enmity that probably would go mostly wasted because of the enmity cap?
And you can use it once ecery 2hr? Sounds pretty preposterous to me lol
I said "incredibly useful in theory" Obviously the enmity would go to waste, but at the same time, it would also mean that suddenly everyone not-the-target would be reset to 0/0 enmity, while the target's capped on both. That at least gives the group a little bit of breathing room while the melees are re-building hate, meaning it could do a tank 2hour's job of saving everyone's ass in a sticky situation. Giving it to sch, though, means it'll never be up in those situations, because embrava. I'm not saying it's amazing, just that it makes no sense that they gave it to sch.


Why not? Sounds nice to me, not just "better than EES". I like it personally. Won't gamebreaking but it looks like a nice 2hr, especially for Annihilator owners!
Why not? Because I'm a pessimist.


Well if it makes your shield activate more than an Ochain, lasts long enough and returns A LOT of damage, it could be nice.
Honestly I was expecting them to give PLD a magic damage Invincible, guess that would have been too obvious...
My guess is that since they've yet to introduce an ability to proc shield 100% of the time, shield, parry, and guard, are subject to a proc cap, similar to evasion. This ability is, essentially, the same thing as palisade, with a little bit extra, and kind of spits in the face of everyone that put the work in to get an Ochain, since I sincerely doubt the difference in block rate is going to be noticeable at all for them. As for the magic-damage invincible, I'm expecting that to rune fencer's 2hour, lol.


As much as I agree with the points you exposed earlier and with this JA looking nice to who doesn't know PUP very well but being shit in reality, I don't agree with your extreme pessimism.
Doesn't look worse than Overdrive to me. Benediction is cool (did you seriously expect them to give us a full party benediction? Can you imagine the rants from WHMs?).
Invincible on Valoredge is a bit... ehr... well let's say it's not completely useless, depending on how much it lasts, but try not to be too much disappointed just because you "wanted Mighty Strikes for VE".
EES won't necessarily do less damage than Armor Shatter. If the damage is interesting you could use it right after an armorshatter and stack a lot of spike damage in a few seconds. Not awesome but, again, sounds better than Overdrive.
Chainspell too looks really nice on paper to me, altough MP might become an issue there. Doubt we'll be able to ADD and keep the 2hr buff up.
All in all the spiritreaver one looks the most ridiculous to me because, like you already said, we virtually have infinite MP in most situations.
For BLM doll Overdrive is probably a better 2hr, especially with the +15 additional seconds from AF. Alllows to spam Ice Maker for 60 seconds etc.
lolOverdrive ist better for Valoredge too if you want damage, but the new 2hr gives you an ADDITIONAL option, while the new 2hr looks much better for Stormwaker, Soulsoother and lolHarlequin.

Dunno, this is not an awesome 2hr but it looks better than Overdrive.
What were you expecting for PUP, seriously?


What leaves me a bit skeptic is the fact that, imho, these 2hr will have to be unlocked with merit points just like WS, and there will be a cap so you won't be able to get all of them =/

Considering that Overdrive gives the puppet a fairly significant boost in attack speed (read: Haste), as well as a fealty effect, it's still stronger than this. And fuck what the whms think, us have benediction wouldn't suddenly make them not completely over powered. Also, it's not so much a matter of "I wanted mighty strikes on VE" as it is "VE is the only puppet that can actually make use of mighty strikes" because with harlequin, and the other frames, mighty strikes won't make any significant difference in over all damage. For EES, if it works the way EES works for rng, that means it will basically be a 5x damage ranged attack. That means a little over 1k damage for pup, depending on what you're fighting. I'm honestly not even sure it will be able to compete with armor piercer, let alone armor shatterer. Your point with chainspell is one that I forgot to make, though, and is also important. That said, between buffoon's collar, AF gloves, Cirque body +2, and Heat sink, all overdrive would do is allow you to keep using maneuvers for the 3rd or 4th nukes. You know, Aspir and Aspir II.

I was expecting something less aggravating than a shitty gimmick that we've already told them would be terrible. At least over drive gives the puppet haste and enfeeble immunity. That's fucking something. This is basically like giving a teal rdm mighty strikes and saying to go melee.


Do you really think trick attack is a good 2hr?

Like someone else said, it seems like it's going to give a TA-style stat=+weaponD boost for it's duration, which, given thf's attack speed at haste cap, is a significant damage boost, even more so if it applies to WS (or specifically, more than the first hit). Just think about what it would mean if suddenly, in addition to atk/fSTR, 1 AGI = 1 Dmg for all melee hits. At 99, that's basically giving your daggers an extra 100 damage rating. If it applies to WS, think about what it means for Exenterator; it would effectively give exenterator a > 200% AGI mod, since the extra dmg from the 2hour wouldn't be subject to the alpha's 15% reduction in WSC.

[Nawesemo]

Blm is so fail ; ; , i'm pissed, wtf does blm give a hoot about emnity gain... I want my forcable crit every 10 min over some cheezy free emnity spells ... fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail s.e.! why not give blu the blm title this is such b.s.

[Tamarsamar]

Honestly to me its a solo 2Hour, Chainspell is more a party 2hour with the use of CSS and all that, but this should make us very powerful when we use this and then buff. Sadly with this we also basically lose any chance at ever seeing Renew because to refresh the duration timers for RDM after this would mean you get super buffs for 2hours, SE would never let us have something so awesome -_-;

Chainspell is good in solo or in parties. Solo Chainspell you can nuke stuff to death, or stop something from beating you to death with Chainspell Cure, Stoneskin, Utsusemi . . . in a party, Chainspell is all about regaining control over a situation. Or, if all else fails, Chainspell Raise those noobs to reduce your downtime somewhat. :P

See, that's what's awesome about Chainspell: it's a genuinely versatile Ability for what's supposed to be a versatile job. The new Ability, I can only see being good for when you want to screw around and become The Juggernaut for a while (as if being a Red Mage alone didn't qualify you enough for that title!).

[Theytak]

PUP - Man, so much haterade on this new ability. I, for one, think this new ability is rather awesome. The way I see it, each automaton is set in a certain way, and emulates certain jobs or certain roles.

Mighty Strikes - Harelquinn isn't generally a useful automaton. I would use it, though, for this ability. Put it on a Sharpshot frame, and then spam TP moves. When it's done spamming, I would change the auto back to full Sharpshot.

Invincible - The Valoredge frame is NOT a WAR or a PLD frame, but a tanking frame, and should be looked at. And there is no ability that best helps tanking than Invincible. So, I think it's appropriate, and I would use it if I had the automaton tanking something.

Eagle Eye Shot - This goes well with the Sharpshot frame, as it's a high physical damage frame. It has potential, considering that the frame doesn't suffer from ranged damage problems that can pop up with Ranger. The only real question is how much damage does it do compared to the weaponskills. If it can't devastate Armor Shatter, it'll be useless.

Chainspell - Could be useful, especially as a zerg move. Although, if the automaton still is under the global recast, then this ability will be rather useless.

Benediction - A very useful HSB when soloing. If things go really go south (I'm half dead, and I pulled a link), this can be a lifesaver.

Manafont - Similar to Chainspell, it'll only be useful if the automaton is allowed to cast quickly.

The hatred is justified. Harlequin is not a melee frame, it's default WS is Magic Mortar, which, unless the puppet has taken damage, deals damage equal to the puppet's melee skill. This ws won't be influenced by mighty strikes, because it's not a physical ws.

Valoredge isn't really much of a tank, considering that even though it takes hits better than any other frame, hat has no way to generate hate, aside from damage, unless you sacrifice some of your damage output and slap strobe on, and even then, strobe, alone, combined with VE's damage output, is not enough to maintain hate over anything except maybe a drg's wyvern, or slipperysilas. I love VE, it's my favorite frame, but really, invincible just isn't the right choice, given what the other frames god. If the other frames got actual practical choices, I'd have no problem with VE having invincible.

As I already said, I don't know if Eagle Eye Shot will be able to compete with armor piercer, let alone armor shatterer, unless SE completely changes how the JA works, for pup, in which case it would wise for them to do the same for rng, and actually make EES worth using.

Chainspell won't be useful in zergs because stormwaker won't be useful in zergs. Zergs are the bane of pup's existence. My guess with how it's going to work is that it will reduce all the recast timers to 1 second, EXCEPT the 4 second global recast, and will not impact stormwaker's casting order whatsoever, so we're going to get something like thunder IV debuff debuff thunder IV debuff debuff Thunder IV debuff Thunder IV debuff, and that's assuming the puppet actually survives more than 2-3 hits.

Benediction as the ohshitbutton is really the only good option here.

[Demon6324236]

True, just sayin how I use it myself. I have never needed a CSStoneskin or CSUtsusemi, but thats just me. My only real use of CS these days seems to be when I'm timing out of Dyna, there is a mob I'm fighting thats proced, and I have 10seconds left with over 50% of its HP to go, then I slip on nuke gear CSNuke and hope it dies in time.

This one looks like it will be just a megabuff generator for RDM, which isn't great in party aspect seeing as unless it lasts like Tabula Rasa does, and is a good 3~5 Minutes, it will have no use for others. However, if it makes Temper 40% Double Attack instead of 20, doubles my haste, makes Phalanx a -60~100 effect, and all that... Yeah, RDM will become a god for however long they last, and thanks to gear thats a good 15+ minutes of that RDM doing whatever they want because they are unstoppable. I am excited to test it out, but I worry SE is going to ruin it like always, a +20% boost on spells, or something like that. If its 75~100% boost on Enhancing Magic like a 2hour should be then this will make RDMs gods for the 15~30min the effects of your superbuffs last. ^_^;

[FrankReynolds]

Like someone else said, it seems like it's going to give a TA-style stat=+weaponD boost for it's duration, which, given thf's attack speed at haste cap, is a significant damage boost, even more so if it applies to WS (or specifically, more than the first hit). Just think about what it would mean if suddenly, in addition to atk/fSTR, 1 AGI = 1 Dmg for all melee hits. At 99, that's basically giving your daggers an extra 100 damage rating. If it applies to WS, think about what it means for Exenterator; it would effectively give exenterator a > 200% AGI mod, since the extra dmg from the 2hour wouldn't be subject to the alpha's 15% reduction in WSC.

It could just be bad translation. I know that translating written word, without being able to ask the person who originally wrote it exactly what they meant can be hard. But, when they say:

Major damage is dealt to the enemy and all enmity will be transferred to the player standing in front of them.

instead of something like "attacks will gain a large boost" or "damage dealt will increase significantly", that leads me to believe that it is one hit, not a duration effect.

[Nala]

ah damn think you're right frank... i originally read it thinking it was stance ish...

[Theytak]

It could just be bad translation. I know that translating written word, without being able to ask the person who originally wrote it exactly what they meant can be hard. But, when they say:


instead of something like "attacks will gain a large boost" or "damage dealt will increase significantly", that leads me to believe that it is one hit, not a duration effect.

The google translated JP version seems to imply an "over the duration" thing that wasn't conveyed in the official translation, which is why I'm leaning towards it just being unclear wording. That said, google translate is google translate, soo...

(for the record: "All of the hostility of their own transfer to the PC in front of you during the time effect, with large damage. " is what google translate gives for the original text)

edit: original text, on the off chance someone here (that isn't in cahoots with camate and the gang) can actually read it: 効果時間中、大ダメージを与えるとともに目の前のPCに自身の敵対心をすべて移す。

[Keyln]

The hatred is justified. Harlequin is not a melee frame, it's default WS is Magic Mortar, which, unless the puppet has taken damage, deals damage equal to the puppet's melee skill. This ws won't be influenced by mighty strikes, because it's not a physical ws.

If you missed it, the 2hr is dependent on the head that is being used, not the frame. I wouldn't use the Harelquin head on the Harlequinn body, but I would use it on the Sharpshot frame, and then do Armor Shatter spam with Mighty Strikes up. Sometimes, it pays to think outside of the box a bit.


Valoredge isn't really much of a tank, considering that even though it takes hits better than any other frame, hat has no way to generate hate, aside from damage, unless you sacrifice some of your damage output and slap strobe on, and even then, strobe, alone, combined with VE's damage output, is not enough to maintain hate over anything except maybe a drg's wyvern, or slipperysilas. I love VE, it's my favorite frame, but really, invincible just isn't the right choice, given what the other frames god. If the other frames got actual practical choices, I'd have no problem with VE having invincible.

The thing is that Valoredge is really designed to take damage. That's why it has the HP of a Galka MNK and a large pool of Earth element attachment allowance (which deals mainly in tanking). I do agree with you on one point and that one of the big problems with Valoredge tanking is the automaton's ability to take and maintain hate, but it was designed to take hits. That's why it has Invincible. If I want my auto to only do damage, I would switch with Sharpshot or a mage frame.


As I already said, I don't know if Eagle Eye Shot will be able to compete with armor piercer, let alone armor shatterer, unless SE completely changes how the JA works, for pup, in which case it would wise for them to do the same for rng, and actually make EES worth using.

I do agree with you on this point that the use of Eagle Eye Shot will be how much damage it does. Considering that Sharpshot doesn't have the same problems that Ranger has (it doesn't need to worry about range), it could do more damage than Ranger's Eagle Eye Shot. With that said, though, if it doesn't do more damage than even a unbuffed Armor Shatter, it's useless.


Chainspell won't be useful in zergs because stormwaker won't be useful in zergs. Zergs are the bane of pup's existence. My guess with how it's going to work is that it will reduce all the recast timers to 1 second, EXCEPT the 4 second global recast, and will not impact stormwaker's casting order whatsoever, so we're going to get something like thunder IV debuff debuff thunder IV debuff debuff Thunder IV debuff Thunder IV debuff, and that's assuming the puppet actually survives more than 2-3 hits.

That's a bit of a tautology if I ever saw one. While I do agree, and I mentioned this before, that the usefulness will be entirely on if the automaton will be under the global recast while under this ability. And considering that there have been situations where the automaton has ignored the global recast, it isn't an unreasonable hope. Having said that, if this is true, then having Stormwaker in RDM mode will be very helpful in zergs because of its ability to rapidly cast nuking spells.


Benediction as the ohshitbutton is really the only good option here.

Call me an optimist, but I can see potential to greatly help PUP in several areas.

[Chilloa]

Hmm... I guess the BST ability could be useful for a free RR. Just call out a Silas right when you enter a zone then absorb it for RR. If you're in Abyssea you could do it right when you enter the zone, grab buffs, Atmas, then get to camp and Call Beast would be ready again.

The ability isn't exactly ideal, or even really wanted by the BST fanbase, but it's better than nothing I guess. I would have preferred a Call Beast ability that summoned an HNM to do some uber attack then disappear. Like Odin and Alexander.

[Demon6324236]

Hmm... I guess the BST ability could be useful for a free RR. Just call out a Silas right when you enter a zone then absorb it for RR. If you're in Abyssea you could do it right when you enter the zone, grab buffs, Atmas, then get to camp and Call Beast would be ready again.

The ability isn't exactly ideal, or even really wanted by the BST fanbase, but it's better than nothing I guess. I would have preferred a Call Beast ability that summoned an HNM to do some uber attack then disappear. Like Odin and Alexander.

What it should have been is it summoning a HNM pet that stays out and functions like a normal pet but much stronger. It should stay out a max of 10 Minutes. If you have a pet out instead it could give you access to a "super attack" that your current pets race has, such as for example(bad example mind you) you have Flowerpot Bill (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Flowerpot_Bill) out, then use your 2Hour you would now have access Petalback Spin (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Petalback_Spin) as a TP attack for him. Most(if not all) races have a NM that actually uses some TP attack that normal mobs cant, so thats all they need to do, add those to your abilities under your 2Hours effects.

[Theytak]

If you missed it, the 2hr is dependent on the head that is being used, not the frame. I wouldn't use the Harelquin head on the Harlequinn body, but I would use it on the Sharpshot frame, and then do Armor Shatter spam with Mighty Strikes up. Sometimes, it pays to think outside of the box a bit.

If you'd read my first post on the issue, I addressed the fact that it being based on the heads means nothing. Using harlequin head will cost you in skill, which will cost you r.atk, r.acc, AND weapon damage (because sharpshot's ranged weapon damage is based on it's skill), as well as attachment set ups. Additionally, you're forgetting that Automaton ranged attacks cannot critical hit. That doesn't necessarily mean their WS won't be able to, but this is SE we're talking about. I sincerely doubt it. Aside from that, using harlequin head will also increase the time between ranged attacks by 5 seconds, and I really shouldn't need to demonstrate the math for you to see how much slow that equates to.


The thing is that Valoredge is really designed to take damage. That's why it has the HP of a Galka MNK and a large pool of Earth element attachment allowance (which deals mainly in tanking). I do agree with you on one point and that one of the big problems with Valoredge tanking is the automaton's ability to take and maintain hate, but it was designed to take hits. That's why it has Invincible. If I want my auto to only do damage, I would switch with Sharpshot or a mage frame.
We're probably not going to agree on this, so there's no point continuing the discussion on this point.


I do agree with you on this point that the use of Eagle Eye Shot will be how much damage it does. Considering that Sharpshot doesn't have the same problems that Ranger has (it doesn't need to worry about range), it could do more damage than Ranger's Eagle Eye Shot. With that said, though, if it doesn't do more damage than even a unbuffed Armor Shatter, it's useless.
For rangers, EES is basically a regular ranged attack with a 5x damage proc. So for sharpshot, it would essentially be the same thing, however, it's hard to say that for certain because unlike players, pet ranged attacks function like monster ranged attacks, in that they're structured more like TP moves than actual attack rounds, so it's hard to say with much certainty as to whether or not they'll translate the EES effect 1:1, however, given that they've blatantly said that they're reducing the effect of benediction for us, the fact that the very nature of the automaton's casting AI hinders the benefit of chain spell and manafont, and the fact that they gave the HARLEQUIN head mighty strikes, meaning that to use mighty strikes, you have to gimp your puppet's damage to a degree, I sincerely doubt sharpshot will even get a fully translated EES. It'll probably be reduced to something like 3.5~4x damage instead, in which case there's no way it would beat armor piercer, and armor shatterer would just laugh at it.


That's a bit of a tautology if I ever saw one. While I do agree, and I mentioned this before, that the usefulness will be entirely on if the automaton will be under the global recast while under this ability. And considering that there have been situations where the automaton has ignored the global recast, it isn't an unreasonable hope. Having said that, if this is true, then having Stormwaker in RDM mode will be very helpful in zergs because of its ability to rapidly cast nuking spells.
Realistically, based on puppet AI, it's more likely to rapidly cast enfeebling spells and nuke every once and a while, unless you use maneuvers, but if you use maneuvers, it costs you ws, which defeats the purpose.


Call me an optimist, but I can see potential to greatly help PUP in several areas.

Call me a realist, but I don't see it helping pup anywhere except for an extra ohshitbutton.

edit: I will admit, however, that mighty strikes has the potential to greatly help me in testing the pet melee damage formula, so there's that.

[noirin]

Honestly i was expecting something better for Whm.what i was expecting i have no clue but, yea. Now though, this really depends on what status ailments it blocks.is this just an uber Bar-2hr, where things can still hits us? or is it flatout immunity? if i can make a party immune to Doom for it's duration, than hats off to ya for the concept.

Bst on the other hand....eh. i Barely use familiar as it is, but i can pretty much tell you that on my budget [i.e. all my gil goes towards building my relic] i can't afford to consume pets every now and then for a buff i can get almost anywhere.books, earrings, hairpins, all that whatnot. Why would i sacrifice Falcor in the middle of a Dyna run for hp recovery? that wastes time, that slows down my kill rate, and that costs me money.

[Aldersyde]

Not sure what the dev team was going for when they thought of the new bst two-hour. I can't see any situation where I would be better off without my pet. If i desperately need to recover hp/status, chances are I'm going to get KOed when I let my pet go, because any mob that was beating on my pet is likely going to beat on me next. At least add a short damage nullification or significant sentinel-like effect so that I can get another jug out and try to put a enmity back on it. As it stands now, the whole concept is bad.

I personally like the diminish master's status to significantly boost pet's strength idea. The new 2-hour's goal should be to boost the pet, not the master. Or if it has to be the master, to significantly boost offensive capabilities (a buff prior to a zerg situation: regain,str +,att +, haste).

[Demon6324236]

New 2hour-->Call Beast-->Snarl-->Safe?

[Aldersyde]

New 2hour-->Call Beast-->Snarl-->Safe?

Maybe, it would depend on the situation. I don't fear a whole lot fighting anything one-on-one with bst. If something's pounding me hard enough that I'd actually need such a massive cure, I'm probably just delaying the inevitable and should just keep my pet on it to die while I get a good running head start. The only instances where I take a lot of damage is usually through adds and in that case, my first instinct isn't to cure myself, but to get adds off of me as soon as possible (Dipper's good because of AoE noisome powder). Getting rid of my pet would just make things worse in that instance because I'd have another mob beating on me. On EPs that may not be that big a deal but on anything higher, it would be racing the clock to get everything off me before I get KOed. Snarl would work on the mob that I aggressively acted on, but not on the ones that just agro or link to me, so I would still have to put my pet on it manually (and in this case, I wouldn't have access to AoE ready moves because i would have just dismissed pet and new one would have no tp on spawn). I just don't think there's a lot of utility for the new 2-hour and there's better courses of action in "oh shit" moments than getting rid of your pet.

And people should have reraise for anything important regardless. It's not like scolls aren't 7 conquest points per.

[Demon6324236]

Oh I know, I don't think its good either... like I said, special TPs for each pet or a HNM pet is the way they should go with it, this has so few good uses... ><;

[ManaKing]

I enjoy that everything on this list will be good or bad based on implementation and situation of use, but people are taking it as bad news.

[Karbuncle]

Just got home from work, want to say regarding PUP 2hour.

WIth Mobs, During Chainspell and Manafont, Universal recasts are set to 0, So they cast over and over, Its absolutely pessimistic to the point of being sadistic to assume that the Automaton's will not adopt the same behavoir.

have some degree of faith in SE.

Also, after re-reading the THF 2hour, It looks like a Massive Trick attack... Rather it will be a JA like say, EES Where its one shot one kill, or a Permanent effect for a small time, It remains to see.

Honestly, if its a 1-shot Attack, It better be f**ktons stronger than a 300%TP Rudra's or 99 Mandau Mercy Stroke (If its Stackable with SA/TA, Which it should be).

[Vagrua]

I just got home from work also. :p

My opinions and suggestions are as followed:

2-hours that sound good:
SMN - No blood pact limits sounds amazing.
WAR - Non-elemental damage could be useful on certain damage resistance mobs.
MNK - It's not better than hundred fists, but I can see it being great against monsters that attack non-stop. MNK already almost counters most attacks with counterstance up.
WHM - Better than Benediction for monsters that spam Doom, Charm or Breakga. Amazing if it stops enemies' special attacks from causing additional effects like Weakness, Muddle, Amnesia, and Encumbrance.
BLM - Nuking with less enmity sounds fun.
THF - Sounds like Eagle Eye Shot to me. I like how they are making the enmity for it go towards the player in front of them.
DRK - Sounds amazing for Ragnarok/Caladbolg users.
SAM - A tough competitor with Meikyo Shisui. I can still see it useful for certain occasions over Meikyo Shisui.
DNC - Sounds better than Trance.
SCH - I can see it good in certain occasions where/if a tank is ever actually needed. With the enmity system broken, most people just zerg everything in content nowadays.

2-hours that could be potentially good:
RDM - Dependent on buff enhancement. RDM soloers may love it.
BRD - It sounds like good debuff ability. It could possibly increase BLMs damage by a considerate amount in nukes. Wait for test server testing.
NIN - Wait for test server testing for parry amount.
DRG - Sounds good for soloers, but it doesn't really help out DRGs in party/alliance situations.
RNG - Better than Eage Eye Shot depending on the duration.
COR - Sounds great, but I wish it would also make the recast timer of Phantom Roll instant while the ability is up or if you bust, no bust would appear and you could re-roll immediately.

2-hours that need revising:
PLD - Horrible. How about changing it to cap the enmity of the PLD and resetting the enmity of all party/alliance members on the designated monster instead? Or have the designated monster's attention only on the PLD while the ability is in use.
BST - It could be useful for soloing if you can use the ability on charmed monsters as mentioned, but besides that it sounds horrid.
BLU - The recast timers of the spells accessible from Unbridled Learning along with their damage and effects make this ability useless. BLU's main problem, in my opinion, exists with the wait in between spells being set. Why not make an ability that lets all spells useable while it is active? You don't have to activate all job traits with the spells if it would seem too overpowered. Instead, only the original job traits from spells that are already set would be active. Lastly, there was a discussion long ago on the forums about an ability to turn into a Soulflayer for a limited amount of time with enhanced stats, Magic Attack, and Magic Accuracy.
PUP - As others have already mentioned, the two hours need to be changed up. The idea of the implication of 2-hour abilities to automatons is a giving though.

[Cyranda]

While I like the idea behind the PUP 2 hour, I'm not sure any of the puppets would use them as even close to as effectively as the jobs that already have them, which means they're not really "Two hour" abilities in terms of power. VE, Stormwaker and Soulsoother's could be be useful in a pinch while soloing (and might even be somewhat fun there), but that's about it.

Mighty Strikes for Harle, if anyone ever used it, on a VE frame with three wind maneuvers up, MIGHT do something (though I doubt it) if it didn't just die instantly (with the Harle body, it would waste time casting during its Mighty Strikes... Oh yeah, you paralyze that monster instead of hitting it with your weaker but still guaranteed crits, Harle!) and all of String Shredder landed. Maybe.

As far as Benediction, I'm most disappointed in that one even if it's potentially useful. Why the hell give PUP a two hour that is directly inferior to another job's ability with the same name and still treat it like it's a "Two hour" power? I mean, really. It's not like you can use all of them at the same time. If you're going to do that, SE, just give it a different power instead. Or you could make it a real joke by naming it "Weakened Two Hour." At least Stormwaker will probably chain cast, VE will be invincible from physical damage, Spiritreaver will cast with no mana cost and Harlol will get guaranteed crits like the jobs their powers come from (even if the result is a lot weaker in all cases). But Soulsoother won't be getting the WHM's Benediction. It can achieve essentially the same thing by casting Cure VI on the master while the master uses Repair, with a three minute cooldown.

[Raucent]

The DRK one could be hit or miss depending on duration if its just an ABS-TP for lets say 30 secs like Blood weapon it'll seem very meh but if it lasts as long as say Mighty Strikes it will be a great addition.

SAM if i am reading it correctly seems like an Invincible+ an attack boost

[Teraniku]

What an insult to my Ochain! How about some damage or enmity control instead? Don't we already have Reprisal? This is just adding a duplicate of that spell in job-ability form. Even for non-relic paladins, having more shield block is going to do nothing when the mob is facing the thf or the mnk or the [insert fast melee job here]... please understand my good intentions with this feedback

Please don't let pld become more and more useless ... :(

What I would have liked:

Provocation

Targets rage is totally locked on the PLD for the duration of this ability (at least 30 seconds), keep the increased chance to block and damage reflection and it would at least be useful.

[Teraniku]

SMN The recast time of both summoning magic and Blood Pacts will become 0 while under the effect of the ability.

^-- Overpowered a tad.



Then take Chainspell away from RDM while you're at it, that's all this is, A SMN version of Chainspell.

[Karbuncle]

It really is just SMN's chainspell, It'll still cost a fkton of MP to blow the BP's off, and there's still the 3-4 Seconde Charge time each Avatar has on BP's.

It'll be a nice ability for sure, but overpowered? F**k no, Unless you wanna get into Victory Smite, Ukko's Fury, Mighty Strikes + Upheaval, Etc etc etc, because those are significantly more broken than this new SMN 2hour, and they can (Bar MS/Up) be used on command by any player with a iota of dedication.

[Alistaire]

I enjoy that everything on this list will be good or bad based on implementation and situation of use, but people are taking it as bad news.

There is no implementation and situation of use that could possibly save most of this trash. A few, sure, depending on damage dealt, duration of the 2hr, but overall this is garbage.

Especially if a couple of them turn out to be decent while the rest get shafted.

[ThaiChi]

As a long time DRG, I see the new two hour as the wyvern evolution I recall seeing rather frequently, just without giving us a full on Wyrm. This also all depends on the buffs it's supposed to get. It could be great, but as of right now, it seems like Spirit Link +1. I do see some potential here, as I am resistant to use Spirit Surge because it means I lose the Jump TP bonus on spirit and soul jumps.

SAM's 2hr seems amazing, one of the best laid out so far, rivaled only by the SMN one. In a zerg, (Provenence Watcher comes to mind) you're going to have more tp accumulation that really Meikyo would just be a drop in the bucket. But this 2hr grants immunity to all physical tp moves from the mob, so in a sense SAM gets a mini invincible. Top that off with any mob spamming TP during the duration of this new 2hr directly impacts your WS damage. SAM again gets a lot of love from the devs -- not that I'm complaning.

NIN for me is where the question of a shared timer becomes key. Because I love Mijin. The ability to erase weakness is invaluable. I always like to have it strategically available for just in case shit hits the fan. But if the 2hr timers are linked, I would question as to why I would blow that recast on something I already have every 5 minutes, and my utsu macro has already made my recast 23~24 seconds with haste. Assuming it stacks, 12 second utsusemi: ni would be great, but you already have 5 shadows that offer a lot of protection from single attacks. AoE attacks render this point moot regardless. Unless the intent here is for NINs to spam the elemental wheel again, but why? 100% Ninja tool expertise? okay... in two hours solo in dynamis I only manage to use an average of 30-40 shihei with Augmented Koga +2 and 1 point in NTE. If the concern was tool conservation, they shoulda left 100% NTE on Yonin. I don't really see a point to a defensive 2hr for NIN. We already have two A- defensive skills, which personally provide me with a lot of attack negation overall, an amazing parry stance, and access to LOADS of evasion gear. Couple that with 4/5 Shadows, this new 2hr is incredibly redundant. Same with PLD, any serious PLD already has an Ochain or at least plans on making one. I mean most of these seem to be a reshuffling of 2hr assignments (DRG gets Famliar, BST gets Spirit Surge, SMN gets Meikyo/Chainspell, THF gets EES, SAM gets Invincible, PUP gets 6 more choices in 2hrs). Why couldn't we just get a form of Mighty Strikes to give us some use in a zerg or something, like while shadows are up.

Some of the other ones are a bit interesting; DRK in particular. Revival of the KC zerg? Imagine if this takes the amount of TP on a 1:1 damage. The mob could potentially be neutered in terms of TP spamming. If these new 2hrs do not share timers you could start with BW and end with the new 2hr and could fit within a Souleater time frame.

SCH would be benefit from separate timers as well, because as stated by everyone here, who would chose anything over Embrava? On fights where PLDs are needed he could potentially never lose hate. One thing that saddens me though is I see no place for a RDM in a large party situation.

[Tamarsamar]

For what it's worth, I see absolutely no problems with Chain-Summon.

I actually have more (logistic) problems with Blood Pacts not working with Chainspell for technically not being considered Magic, but SE seems to have done their darndest to adapt themselves around that over the years (Summoning Magic skillups, Blood Boon, and everything in-between) rather than change it, perhaps culminating in this new 2-hour.

(Yeah, yeah, "Who would want RDM to Chainspell gimped Blood Pacts?" If we can do something equally stupid like Chainspell Bard Songs, I see no reason whatsoever why not.)

[Meyi]

BST's sounds so barbaric. ABSORB our pet?! Uwah... better hope the Vana'diel PETA doesn't hear about this...

[Arcon]

So trick attack on a 2 hour timer? what did I ever do to you?

I'm just happy it isn't TH-related.

[Shadax]

Let's see, just going through my jobs:

BLM - Meh. This would have to be completely hate free for at least 60 seconds to be useful at all. We already have Enmity Douse to correct overnuking issues, and we can do that every 10 mins.

RDM - Don't get me started. As people here have said, if you're going to make RDM an enhancer now, then you need to give us more targeted spells. En-, better Phalanx, Temper, better Haste, Gain spells, etc.

BST - Utter crap. Reraise and an Erase by consuming a pet when 99% of BST's sub WHM or DNC? Are you kidding me?

RNG - The distance modifier is already negated for accuracy under Sharpshot, so this only affects damage? If you can't correct your distance for optimal damage within 2 seconds you shouldn't be playing RNG. And unless the effect lasts for 10 mins or more, the doesn't consume ammo effect is a joke, especially to those that merited Recycle.

BLU - If the duration is decent and spells are fixed this may actually be somewhat useful.

Final Grade: D

Most of these I wouldn't use as a 5 minute ability much less a 2hr. I really expected more out of this. And if these are merited, I'd max out Scavenge recast before spending merits on most of these.

[Theytak]

Just because I've noticed some people here and other places wanting to hear what sort of alternative I had expected for pup, I'll provide two examples of how using the same concept would be implemented in a much more appropriate/useful fashion:

First Example: Similar to the current one, but admitting that while the puppets are each based on player jobs, they are not, themselves, those jobs, and their unique 2hours should not be identical.

- Harlequin: An ability that either puts a nasty debuff on the mob (similar to the thought behind brd's new 2hour) or gives THE MASTER a buff that validates using harlequin for any reason other than getting laughed at.

- Valoredge: An ability that temporarily transfers all damage taken by the master to the puppet, or vice versa, or both, transfering it to whomever doesn't have hate, and ignoring AoE damage that hits both. Alternatively, do it with TP.

- Sharpshot: An ability that drops the Ranged Attack recast to 0~2 seconds, essentially giving sharpshot the ability to make use of that rapid crossbow we had to pay out the ass for/spend forever finding mats and a crafter for when we made the thing. It could even weaken the ranged attacks a bit to not be totally overpowered, since at best we're able to hit 12 seconds between ranged attacks and then have to rely on low-skill melee attacks to actually get TP. For the record, 12 seconds between ranged attacks is equal to ~1320 ranged delay, and that's with an r.acc penalty. The 20 second base delay is an outrageous 2200 delay. If SE tried to force players to use weapons with over 1k delay, everyone would just laugh at them.

- Stormwaker: The opposite of what harlequin got; if Harle was given an enfeeble, give stormwaker a badass buffing ability; if harle got the badass buff, give stormwaker a really nasty 2hourdebuff ability.

- Soulsoother: Since soulsoother is probably the most like its base job, giving a benediction-esqe effect would be fine, so long as it's not stupid like this one, and actually effects the entire party. If you want to keep off whm's toes, make it so that it only heals 50% of everyone's max HP or something, or that it gives them their HP back as a regen effect instead of in one big chunk. Actually, I kind of like that latter one, instead of Benediction it'd be Regenediction, and could be like, 5% HP/tick regen, which would heal 100% of a player's HP over 60 seconds, and would actually be as useful as benediction, without being the same thing, and useful in different situations. Alternatively; Mijin Gacure (terrible spelling pun, I'm sorry), the puppet detonates itself and the explosion heals all the surrounding party members.

- Spiritreaver: Spiritreaver's a bit trickier, since manafont is functionally pointless, and chainspell with T5 nukes would be... a tad wonky, since it would be more like nuke nuke aspir aspir aspir aspir nuke aspir aspir nuke aspir aspir aspir nuke, unless the target isn't aspirable, and then it would be nuke nuke nuke nuke nuke nuke mpgonenowwhatdoIdo? Simply giving it a damage boost would be questionable, because every other nuking job would want that as their 2hour too, and the alternative of giving it access to an otherwise inaccessible spell would be silly, since the only spells strong enough to actually make that work would be Impact, Comet, and Meteor, any of which would cause blms to rage pretty hard, though meteor more so than the other two. We could make pretty good use of Comet and Impact, I'd think, but having them as a 2hour would be a bit underwhelming. I really can't think of anything special for spiritreaver otherwise, though.

Second Example: One I sort of touched on earlier, and the one I feel would be more appropriate for pup, given the split between pet/master heavily favors the master (not to the degree of drg, but still); a spirit surge-esqe ability that could vary by frame, or just be universal.

- Standardized: Merges the Master and the Automaton, and really, the buff could be nearly identical to spirit surge (25% magic haste, Max HP+15%, adds pet's TP upon usage) and replace the Jump enhancements, and the large str enhancement, with this instead: any active maneuvers when the JA is used will be converted into stat buffs for the master (ie: fire maneuver -> str, thunder -> dex, etc), giving +20 stat for the first of a type of maneuver, and +5 for each identical maneuver (so 3 FM would be STR+30, 2 FM 1 TM would be STR+25 DEX+20, and 1 FM 1 TM 1 EM would be STR+20 DEX+20 VIT+20)

By Frame:
- Universal traits: Pet is lost, max HP is increased, and at the time of use the master will both receive the pet's TP, and be healed based on the pet's current HP; additionally, it would give stat buffs based on the current pet's head/frame combo, converting elemental capacity x3 to stats (essentially, Fire -> str, Thunder -> dex, Wnd -> agi, Earth -> vit, Water -> mnd, Ice -> int, but let's convert light maneuvers to a regen effect, since chr is useless, and since dark maneuvers translate to mp, let's change that, to a 1:1 regain effect (1 slot = 1 tp/tick)

- Harlequin: Gives the master an averaged buff; Stat buffs (harle head/frame would be str/dex/vit/agi/mnd/int+15 9HP/tick regen and 3tp/tick regain), atk+5%, acc+15, def+5%, eva+15, MDT-5%, 10% JA haste

- Valoredge: Gives the master a boost in survivability; Stat buffs (str/vit +21, dex/agi, mnd+9, int+6, 15HP/tick regen and 2tp/tick regain), atk+10%, def+10%, a larger increase to max HP relative to the other frames, as well as temporarily granting valoredge's natural DT (it would give the master -20%; it's actually -12%+9% from stout servant, but I'm rounding down for clean numbers), and just because it wouldn't be SE otherwise, it would also significantly boost guard's proc rate while active (they might even let it go as high as a staggering 10% proc rate!); Additionally, it would change the pup's melee attacks to slashing damage (WS would still be blunt)

- Sharpshot: Gives the master a boost in damage; Stat buffs (agi+21, str/dex+18, mnd+15, vit+9, int +6, 15HP/tick and 2tp/tick regain), 25% JA haste, acc+30, crit rate+10%, and it would change the pup's melee attacks to piercing damage (WS would still be blunt)

- Stormwaker: Gives the master a magical edge; Stat buffs (see below, since it would vary by head), 10% Magic haste, MDT-10%, M.Eva+ (whatever the equivalent amount would be based on the other frames), and it would convert the pup's melee attacks to magical damage (either non-elemental, like formless strikes, or elemental, based on either the day or the weather (or both; like how geode drops work: Weather takes priority, but if it's not present, the day will determine it); WS would still be physical blunt damage)
--- Full Stormwaker Stats: int+21, mnd+18, vit+15, agi+12, dex+9, str+6, 9HP/tick regen, 6TP/tick regain
--- Soulsoother Stats: int+21, mnd+18, vit+15, agi+12, dex+9, str+6, 18HP/tick regen, 4TP/tick regain
--- Spiritreaver Stats: int+21, mnd+18, vit+15, agi+12, dex+9, str+6, 9HP/tick regen, 7TP/tick regain


Did I actually expect SE to implement something this intricate? No. Did I expect SE to do better than what they're presenting now? Yes. By a good deal. The only real downfall with overdrive is that it affects the pet, and not the master, since the pet is the lesser focus for pup. If Overdrive affected the master, that shit would have been so nice...

[Kitkat]

To be honest a lot of these sound more like 5~20minute timer abilities rather than new desirable 2hours. SE really needs to make it's mind up on what the heck they want rdm to be cause they are driving it more and more into soloer with the spells and 2hour it is getting, not to mention passing off enfeeble spells, that should be exclusive, to other jobs while our only real exclusives come in the form of merits that we can't even benefit the full power of on all because of merit category caps.

Thf Major damage...so what...is this some kind of super sneak/trick attack? That major damage better be 3 or 4x what we can already do.

Blu, as others have already said, the recast on the spells are far too long to really make this worth anything at all. This would have to reduce recast of UK spells and activate the TP modifiers of the spells to make it worth using over AL (cause face it, we already know these two hours are more than likely going to share timers with pre-existing 2hours)

[Badieh]

If someone pissed me off, I would use Sch 2h ability on them... LOL! Oh nooooo!

[0nionKn1ght]

Ok lets get rating!


WAR
Regular attacks will become non-elemental and grants a drastic increase in accuracy.Sounds good, Mighty Misses was always a kind of crappy emergency button, this improves on that greatly.


MNK
Grants a 100% counter-rate against regular attacks from enemies. Also, the amount of enmity gained by this will increase drastically.Another good one, good for tanking, great for doing some fast damage, stacked with Hundred Fists you could solo Absolute Virtue! :D - Alone, a good enough ability to stand up and stand out, people would use this over Hundred Fist's.


WHM
Grants party members protection from status ailments.I see it's application, but with it being so situational, and most endgame being zerg fests, it would only serve as a ward, incase something may go wrong. Can see it being useful on NM fights with Morbol's and particularly nasty status inflicting encounters.


BLM
Grants a drastic decrease in enmity generated by magic attacks.I believe that BLM already has a similar JA, so doubt this would be used so long as they still have Manafont. It would literally need to reduce all spells to 0 for the duration of the 2 hour to even raise consideration. Can only see very selfish BLM's considering this for their arsenal.


RDM
Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.Yeah... sorry SE no idea what you are thinking here, it's like you have pushed RDM so far out of the game, you are now trying to push it into other games. See my thread in the RDM forums for an alternative suggestion to this.... thing....


THF
Major damage is dealt to the enemy and all enmity will be transferred to the player standing in front of them.As good as Perfect Dodge in terms of utility, if you can find someone to be your Patsy. It sounds like a Trick Attack status for a short time frame basically. No problems with this one, I see it being used far more than PD is at the moment.


PLD
Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.No complaints, Invincible is still going to pip this one at the post, but this has situational application where you know when an encounter is going to use humongous physical damage, thus all of it can be bounced back onto the target.


DRK
Steals an enemy's TP through regular attacks while the effect is active.Eh, Blood Weapon and this are about equal, as you are going to be Weapon Skilling faster for this time frame. No issues, seems this one will be down to the DRK's choice. Don't see it as anything too mental, compared to what that class already has.


BST
Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.This would have been amazing pre-Abyssea Alliance exp days when the only way to level was out at the back end of beyond, and still good-ish now, but doesn't offer anything that temp items and GoV books don't already. Seems odd that a BST 2 hour removes your pet though. Would be interesting to see if this can be used on Charmed pets, giving it a drastically higher usability, but for now, Familiar is far far better. Would have much preferred to have seen the 2 hour give 5 minutes of a summoned Wyvern or Morbol.


BRD
Drastically reduces the magic defense, magic evasion, and INT/MND of the target.People still play BRD? Haven't seen a single one since returning a few weeks back, but in any case, a usable 2 hour, but eclipsed by Soul Voice, due to it giving such a huge boost. Can't see people using this one, unless on a fight where Physical damage is kind of useless, and magic damage is the only option.


RNG
The range modifier will become the optimal distance no matter the range to the target. Also, ammunition will not be consumed.If this is just for one shot, then it is awful, but if it's a 5/10 minute buff, it sounds pretty damn useful. EES has already been made kind of useless, due to most of the RNG's WS's exceeding it's damage. I would have preferred to see some kind of super Shadowbind, meaning the target is bound, slept, silenced etc for 30 seconds and nothing can break it, even damage done to the affected target.


SAM
All damage caused by physical special abilities will be evaded. Additionally, weapon skill damage will increase as more special abilities are evaded.A solo ability if I am reading it right, in that you gain almost like an enrage as you evade more incoming attacks. Sounds fine, Meikyo Shisui (sp?) is already kind of outpowered by SAM's generally being able to generate enough TP to skillchain continuously now, this would definately see some usage.


NIN
Grants a drastic increase in parry rate. Additionally, Ninjutsu recast times will be reduced by 50% and ninja tools will not be consumed.Excellent, far better than the D3 they currently have. No complaints about this one, a functional and practical 2 hour.


DRG
Wyvern’s HP is completely restored and all status ailments are cured. Additionally, the wyvern’s stats will increase.Sounds great, it's a halfway line at summoning a full grown Wyvern. Hopefully the Wyvern will grow a little while this is active at least.


SMN
The recast time of both summoning magic and Blood Pacts will become 0 while under the effect of the ability.THIS SOUNDS BALANCED AND IN NO WAY SHOULD BE CHANGED AND NOT AT ALL BECAUSE I AM PLAYING A SMN99 AND SEE THIS AS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL ABILITIES OF ALL TIME... OF ALL TIME! >_>


BLU
While the ability is in effect, blue magic from Unbridled Learning can be used continuously.BLU's are heading for a major nerf at some point I think, being as they can currently solo chain 15-20 mobs at once in Abyssea for huge turnaround. This 2 hour has further put them into the mentally OP category. Don't enjoy this too long BLU's, SE won't allow this forever :)


COR
Grants the ability to use up to 3 Phantom Roll effects.Perfect, no complaints. Will be used over their current one alot.


PUP
Automaton will use special abilities. Special ability usage will depend on the automaton head.
Harlequin Head: Mighty Strikes
Valoredge Head: Invincible
Sharpshot Head: Eagle Eye Shot
Stormwaker Head: Chainspell
Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will only apply to the master and automaton)
Spiritreaver Head: ManafontLove it, functional, practical and appropriate for whatever situation the PUP will already be in. Reactive and very nicely thought out. I likes!


DNC
Grants maximum amount of Finishing Moves and the recast time of all Flourishes will be reset.
Additionally, while the ability is in effect, Finishing Moves will not be consumed.Trance is already powerful, this is equal in power. Sounds good.


SCH
Will direct enmity of all party members to an indicated player.Meh, nothing I wasn't expecting, but was hoping for SCH to see something a little more interesting, however it serves a nice purpose. Would be used, if it wasn't for Tabula Rasa already being in their arsenal.

[Kitkat]

BLU's are heading for a major nerf at some point I think, being as they can currently solo chain 15-20 mobs at once in Abyssea for huge turnaround. This 2 hour has further put them into the mentally OP category. Don't enjoy this too long BLU's, SE won't allow this forever :)

Think you're misunderstanding something about blu. At most I see this possibly being a chainspell-type 2hour with hardly any potency backing it up (AKA no tp modifiers active). In this sense it just turns the spells, which aren't exactly high on the zomg-pwn meter without tp modifier active, and very few of them are even worth using. So if it does reduce spells to "active" and no recast then it has the same exact pitfall of chainspell: if it is on something that has high def, resists the type of dmg, or the spell just doesn't have much umph behind it without TP mod active anyway it is just an mp sink. In this case we are better off sticking to Azure Lore over using this.

[Hayward]

Can't really say that PLD ability is game-changing enough to warrant a 2-hour cooldown unless it reflects all physical damage including TP moves.

That SMN 2-hour sounds crazy for all-out blitz fights. I like it.

The RDM 2-hour? Try again, guys.

Automaton 2-hours sound almost too insane for words. On top of that, I have an excuse to use Harlequin again.

[OMEGA_HACK]

SCH one sounds like it fits the role (lore-wise) being a tactical mage. So while it will probably NEVER be used over Embrava + Embrava + Embrava with a toss in of Kaustra for giggles, it fits the "lore bill". So meh...would've been happier if we got to unlock Ultima or something...

Or hell make it the same as Tabla Rasa, name it Omnes in Unum, wipes all spells from our list and gives Ultima (Non-elemental massive magic damage) and the other spell be the current ability you are using as this new two-hour.

DRG's 2hr is crap, hands down crap. Yes, I know we don't know the values of the strength increase but still I would've liked to see something more along the lines of a Spirit Bond kind of ability wherein both Dragoon and Wyvvern are sync'd and share all traits and abilities for a duration.

This means the Wyvern will gain any status enhancements you have (haste+bar spells+rolls+songs+etc+etc) as well as your current traits (double attack+evasion bonus+resists+etc+etc) and the Dragoon will receive all the Wyvern's status enhancements (Steady Wing being the big one) as well as traits. Also the Wyvern will gain the ability to use the Jumps attacks as well (they will just use it when you use yours, and they will deal damage and gain tp as you do) as well as any other abilities. Duration 30sec-1min

Now we've solved both problems of Dragoon's ability to stay alive as well as the Wyvern's weakness on bigger bads.

[Camate]

Greetings!

Thanks for all the feedback thus far on the new 2-hour abilities.
Along with the feedback from the test server, we will be sure to utilize it for further adjustments.

In regards to effect durations and values, they will most likely be adjusted before they are implemented to the live server so please try them out first on the test server and get a feel for them. We are looking forward to hearing your thoughts after testing them out.

We are getting closer to the final stretch to implement these abilities on the test server, so hang in there just a bit longer.

Additionally, we made a few corrections to two of these new abilities. (The original list posted yesterday has been corrected as well.)


RDM:
Incorrect: Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.

Correct: Grants an increase to the effect of enhancing magic.


PUP:
Incorrect: Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will only apply to the master and automaton)

Correct: Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will apply to the party members and automaton itself)

[tyrantsyn]

Greetings!

Thanks for all the feedback thus far on the new 2-hour abilities.
Along with the feedback from the test server, we will be sure to utilize it for further adjustments.

In regards to effect durations and values, they will most likely be adjusted before they are implemented to the live server so please try them out first on the test server and get a feel for them. We are looking forward to hearing your thoughts after testing them out.

We are getting closer to the final stretch to implement these abilities on the test server, so hang in there just a bit longer.

Additionally, we made a few corrections to two of these new abilities. (The original list posted yesterday has been corrected as well.)


RDM:
Incorrect: Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.

Correct: Grants an increase to the effect of enhancing magic.


PUP:
Incorrect: Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will only apply to the master and automaton)

Correct: Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will apply to the party members and automaton itself)


Ugh, that suck's on RDM. Tell em we like it better the way you had it Camate.

[SpankWustler]

Other than Beastmaster and Bluemage, I don't see a lot of these as that bad. Some are ridiculously situational and some are only mildly less awful than the current disappointing 2-hour ability for whatever job they're on, but I could see them being useful at least once before the Earth tumbles into the Sun.

I just noticed that there's no "Reduces recast of Finishing Moves to 0," in the Dancer ability. It could be worse than I thought at first if that's not in it. Still, probably better than Trance.

Nothing new to add about the Beastmaster ability, but I still want to ruminate on how pointless it is for a moment. I have never felt the desire to eat my hideous monster buddy to gain the effect I get from a Reraise Earring and a few spells or waltzes.

I'd be fine with giving up defense for offense, actually, I'd love that. Giving up offense for defense would be useful in some situations. This is basically giving up defense for defense, though, and it feels like trading one orange for another orange that somebody peed on.

Run Wild II: God Hates You, All of You


BLU's are heading for a major nerf at some point I think, being as they can currently solo chain 15-20 mobs at once in Abyssea for huge turnaround. This 2 hour has further put them into the mentally OP category. Don't enjoy this too long BLU's, SE won't allow this forever :)

A major nerf at the point somebody uses the new two-hour instead of Azure Lore. The ability sounds much worse if one knows that the modifiers and fTP values for Unbridled Learning spells are pretty much the same as those for normal spells.

A lot of the spells have useful effects, such as Bilge Storm, but casting the spell over and over won't apply more of those effects. Sometimes the effects are also highly situational, such as that from Gates of Hades.

[Nala]

The only way i can see the RDM 2 hour being useful is if it adds new and unexpected effects to pre existing ones along with enhancing its current parameters. i have no faith that they will get that right so yeah...

[Badieh]

It really is just SMN's chainspell, It'll still cost a fkton of MP to blow the BP's off, and there's still the 3-4 Seconde Charge time each Avatar has on BP's.

It'll be a nice ability for sure, but overpowered? F**k no, Unless you wanna get into Victory Smite, Ukko's Fury, Mighty Strikes + Upheaval, Etc etc etc, because those are significantly more broken than this new SMN 2hour, and they can (Bar MS/Up) be used on command by any player with a iota of dedication.


.



Hello!

[0nionKn1ght]

getting rid of the speshul snowflake color and font, because it's rather silly,


....are you brain damaged?

No, but way to take a long and thought out post and try to turn it into a joke with 4 words. Care to expand on your bolding a little based on opinions and observations, or you just trying to be a nasty little troll garnering a few likes from other trolls at your vile approach towards another human being? You feel taking the mentally handicapped as a laughing matter amusing? I hope you have an enormous sense of well being following your disgusting attitude. I rarely if ever get annoyed at something someone posts on an internet forum, but your post I found both insulting, and vile.

[FrankReynolds]

No, but way to take a long and thought out post and try to turn it into a joke with 4 words. Care to expand on your bolding a little based on opinions and observations, or you just trying to be a nasty little troll garnering a few likes from other trolls at your vile approach towards another human being? You feel taking the mentally handicapped as a laughing matter amusing? I hope you have an enormous sense of well being following your disgusting attitude. I rarely if ever get annoyed at something someone posts on an internet forum, but your post I found both insulting, and vile.


Sometimes you just know that talking to a person is not going to help, so you just say something like "Are you crazy?!?" and leave it at that. He did go the extra inch and bold some especially weird parts.

[FrankReynolds]

Greetings!

Thanks for all the feedback thus far on the new 2-hour abilities.
Along with the feedback from the test server, we will be sure to utilize it for further adjustments.

In regards to effect durations and values, they will most likely be adjusted before they are implemented to the live server so please try them out first on the test server and get a feel for them. We are looking forward to hearing your thoughts after testing them out.

We are getting closer to the final stretch to implement these abilities on the test server, so hang in there just a bit longer.

Additionally, we made a few corrections to two of these new abilities. (The original list posted yesterday has been corrected as well.)


RDM:
Incorrect: Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.

Correct: Grants an increase to the effect of enhancing magic.


PUP:
Incorrect: Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will only apply to the master and automaton)

Correct: Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will apply to the party members and automaton itself)



Can we get some clarification on the THF ability while your at it? Is it a duration effect? or a one shot move?

[Dreamin]

SMN's new 2hr is only useful IF and only IF the duration is more than just 1 BP and is indeed a true 'Chainspell' like in that there's no limitations as to how many BP you can fire off as long as you have the MP to cover it. Otherwise it'll be as useless as BST (and some of the other jobs).

Here's hoping that it is real and not what ppl are just reading too much and having too much hope/faith.

[Volarione]

Whoever says this new pup 2 hour doesn't rock obviosly hasn't put the time into their puppet enough to realize how much the old one sucks. Thanks camate for the update, but the drg one really does seem useless.

[ManaKing]

BUT I wanted to be a super RDM for 20 minutes.... 10 minutes isn't as fun.....

[Daniel_Hatcher]

So RDM's is even worse than I thought.

[tyrantsyn]

So RDM's is even worse than I thought.
problem is, we don't really know what the job is getting. It could be an increase to the buff, or could end up being something like un~dispel~able enhancing magic. i was feeling the increase duration thing too. Anything to keep me out of those cycle's.

[Theytak]

Greetings!

Thanks for all the feedback thus far on the new 2-hour abilities.
Along with the feedback from the test server, we will be sure to utilize it for further adjustments.

In regards to effect durations and values, they will most likely be adjusted before they are implemented to the live server so please try them out first on the test server and get a feel for them. We are looking forward to hearing your thoughts after testing them out.

We are getting closer to the final stretch to implement these abilities on the test server, so hang in there just a bit longer.

Additionally, we made a few corrections to two of these new abilities. (The original list posted yesterday has been corrected as well.)


RDM:
Incorrect: Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.

Correct: Grants an increase to the effect of enhancing magic.


PUP:
Incorrect: Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will only apply to the master and automaton)

Correct: Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will apply to the party members and automaton itself)


Ok, the pup correction is an improvement. Now correct the rest of pup's 2 hour so it doesn't suck.



No, but way to take a long and thought out post and try to turn it into a joke with 4 words. Care to expand on your bolding a little based on opinions and observations, or you just trying to be a nasty little troll garnering a few likes from other trolls at your vile approach towards another human being? You feel taking the mentally handicapped as a laughing matter amusing? I hope you have an enormous sense of well being following your disgusting attitude. I rarely if ever get annoyed at something someone posts on an internet forum, but your post I found both insulting, and vile.

Well, if you want to blatantly ignore every single one of my posts in this very thread because they disagree with you on some part or another, that's fine, but I wasn't trying to troll. I was asking an honest question that I was unsure of, because all of the portions of your post that I bolded are rather... unintelligent. or uninformed. You're not going to be able to successfully guilt trip me, though, given who I am and what I am; I'm just gonna laugh at you, while you sit there on your moral high horse, because I find it comical.

The post was intended to be an insult, though, so mission accomplished, I guess.


Whoever says this new pup 2 hour doesn't rock obviosly hasn't put the time into their puppet enough to realize how much the old one sucks. Thanks camate for the update, but the drg one really does seem useless.
That's cute and all, but I'm fairly certain I've put a fair amount of time into my pup, and everyone else's pups, to be qualified to declare that our new 2hour is just as garbage as overdrive.

[Hashmalum]

Additionally, we made a few corrections to two of these new abilities. (The original list posted yesterday has been corrected as well.)


RDM:
Incorrect: Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.

Correct: Grants an increase to the effect of enhancing magic.


PUP:
Incorrect: Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will only apply to the master and automaton)

Correct: Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will apply to the party members and automaton itself)

Wow, the RDM got even worse, and still no mention of being able to apply self-only buffs to other people. This sounds awful. I can't envision a situation where this will be more useful than Chainspell, let alone Tabula Rasa. If this shares a timer with the existing 2 hour abilities, it will never get used. Camate, please tell them to try again.

[Dreamin]

problem is, we don't really know what the job is getting. It could be an increase to the buff, or could end up being something like un~dispel~able enhancing magic. i was feeling the increase duration thing too. Anything to keep me out of those cycle's.

If you think SE will ever give us un-dispel-able enhancing magic, you either have been drinking too much SE coolaid or haven't been playing long enough.

I'm actually not surprised at all that SE gives RDM ENHANCING 2hr. It fits right into their current mindset regarding RDM, which is basically, it's a job that has near-zero usefulness/uniqueness and no one with their right mind should ever play it. {Before ppl jumps all over me, I do have RDM and had to dealt with doing 5x BLM refresh in dynamis back in the old days. I've also done my share of RDM solo'ing back then. I no longer play RDM anymore because there are so many other job alternative that I can use. Only time I have used my RDM in the last year was when I can't find a RDM for our VW - which we no longer need anymore with the change.}

As bad as RDM has gotten though, they're not alone. Look at BST and SMNs (PUP was taken out from their corner with their pet's AI fix a while ago). SMN still only have their level 72 BPs or their merited level 75 elemental BP. While BST has the jobs most unique abilities taken away from them (from anywhere that is of REAL value. Yes, you can still charm but there's nothing that is worth doing now a day that you have anything that you CAN charm).

So yeah I feel bad for RDM but it's not like RDM is the only job that SE is completely clueless about it.

Hopefully with the new director in place now, things will change. One can only hope.

[saevel]

RDM:
Incorrect: Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.

Correct: Grants an increase to the effect of enhancing magic.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The nerfing has begun.

Can't have RDM actually be useful so they made it worse.

[tyrantsyn]

If you think SE will ever give us un-dispel-able enhancing magic, you either have been drinking too much SE coolaid or haven't been playing long enough.


Nah, you took what I said out of context, but that's a norm around here. I was only speculating about it. Not saying it. No worries tho

That kind of thing would be a complete let down, in less It keep mob's from overwriting the spell's as well. Thought could be a little note worthy.

[Andreah]

To the Dev Team:

I kinda like the general direction where you're going with DNC's new two-hour, but I'm hesitant on a few things. Flourishes, as you know, are shared between three different categories. If this new two-hour resets all Flourish recasts, it'll only be genuinely useful for three different Flourishes at that moment. It sounds a little iffy in a sense it'd be pretty useful already, but you have to keep in mind what those decisions are between.

The first category is the choice been weight, a weaker provoke, and stun, which wouldn't benefit too much from an instant recast reset except in a one-use crisis where you'd need to Stun in that moment. In my experience, the recast on Violent Flourish is so low it's never been an issue that DNC can't already take to the face as it is. Anything beyond that usually can't be reliably stunned without preparation, or are immune to stun altogether, and in a situation where an instant stun would be worth it, I don't know if I'd want to sacrifice the ability to use my Waltzes with a minimal recast timer and no TP cost for two hours just to do so.

The third is the decision between forced criticals on the first strike of your main hand, a one-time forced double attack, or a one-time forced triple attack. The recast timers on those are rather long, and none of them would be genuinely nice to stack together, because even if you had Climactic Flourish to Tertiary, you'd still only get a guaranteed critical on the first hit of the three strikes. In Abyssea, with the right Atmas, Striking and Tertiary are usually unnecessary, since I almost always swing in multiples on my main hand.

Those two categories I mentioned above are the only two I can see gaining minimal to no benefit from the proposed two-hour. The second category, however, can gain a minor amount of benefit on one part; the zero cost of Finishing Moves in order to act. The ability to use Reverse Flourish to regain TP without consuming all of your Finishing Moves is inviting, especially with the idea of tacking Building Flourish on the front of that. Wild Flourish hasn't been useful for a long time to me, since it not only can't do a Lv.3 skillchain closure (like SAM's, which hurt my feelings a bit since I thought WF made DNC unique when it came to skillchains), but the recast time it incurs is the same as Reverse Flourish and I can simply self-skillchain with Reverse Flourish to make Darkness on my own and do more damage in the same amount of time.

Now with all that taken into consideration, it's time I looked at the zero cost to Finishing Moves. This idea is enticing when it comes to Reverse Flourish, but in all honesty, by the time I can re-use any of the categories, my Finishing Moves are already capped. Presto and No Foot Rise even without full merits can make me Building Flourish to Reverse Flourish in the exact same amount of time. With a Terpsichore, this two-hour is rendered completely ineffective in regards to this, as a full set of five Finishing Moves is ten seconds and 10% TP away.

To wrap this up, I think the idea you're looking for is great. It's on the right track, but it's not doing much except pointing out what a Dancer can already do if they put their heart into it. If you have the time to test it, I'd try taking a closer step towards what Trance accomplishes. If you were to cut the recast down of all Flourishes to... maybe... five seconds? Better yet, to try to balance it out, put all Flourish categories on a shared timer, one singular timer, and have a five-second cooldown or something similar. I just wouldn't go over ten seconds. If you did that and maybe reduced the cost of Flourishes to one Finishing Move instead of zero, it'd push the Dancer to have to continually work for it if they're using it to its maximum potential, and it wouldn't be broken.

The only Flourishes a Dancer would really look into using this for during practical everyday use is for Building and Reverse in order to weaponskill more. If you make sure the delay is long enough that they can't self-skillchain with Reverse Flourish to Reverse Flourish, it wouldn't come near SAM's original two-hour, but it'd stand its ground next to Trance as a decent, functional two-hour to use in both a planned situation and in a desperate one. I apologize if this post is a little too lengthy for your already busy schedules, but I thought it'd be important to break down the functionality of what you were proposing and what Dancer already can accomplish.

[Merton9999]

Boo, none of these sound interesting.

Effectiveness will all be in the numbers, which we'll have to wait for. My disappointment is that the effects don't sound that creative. I was hoping to see more fun moves like Embrava and Kaustra.

It seems almost everyone agrees already, but I really can't see choosing SCH's new 2-hour over Tabula Rasa ... ever. What's the reason for any of these sharing the same timer as current 2-hours? Balance is a boring answer. If the enmity redirection thing remains, please make it potent and long enough that SCH doesn't get stuck with another pretty name like Modus Veritas, Adloquium, or Animus Augeo that doesn't actually do anything people care about. I know other jobs have the same problem, but I don't care about them :p

[Economizer]

Many of the 2hours are great, but some aren't so great.

I think the optimum example at this point is Monk's which gives the player a choice between a very good offensive option and a very good defensive one.

That said, some jobs, no matter what you give them, you'd be hard pressed to give them something better then their two hour.

Summoner and Scholar come to mind, but with Summoner the 2hour option is actually really good - you get an offensive option that also finally makes Tarutaru's high MP useful, for once (well, at least until you go /RDM and use Convert on a non-Galka race...).

Scholar... well, I can't pretend to be upset since the job already has a great 2hour, but swapping enmity around doesn't exactly Scholarly. Obviously whatever is given is very likely to not have as much utility and power as Embrava if the game is to retain some semblance of balance from one of the most powerful classes, but I think Scholar could use something else more suited to it, or some more tactical element could be added to the proposed 2hour, such as also (in addition to the enmity swap) Scanning the enemy for strengths/weakness, current buffs/debuffs and stats, or also (in addition to the enmity swap, but instead of Scan) slightly buffing the player who got all the enmity with some sort of enmity based buff that wears off as the player loses the main aggro focus. Nothing major, just something more "tactical" to reflect Scholar, not because it needs more power, but because it would fit flavor better.

Anyways, while I also disagree with some assessments of certain 2hour abilities, I'll reflect on White Mage's and Red Mage's 2hour abilities.


WHM Grants party members protection from status ailments.


Much better than Benediction in this day and age. I bet it will still be worse than Perfect Defense, although the duration could make all the difference here.


While just about anything is better then Benediction (which is very situational at best for various reasons), I'd like to point out that this souped up Divine Caress is roughly (maybe exaggerating to make a point here, but still) useless unless it covers EVERY debuff. Perfect Defense exists (and to a lesser extent, the Chainstun combo), so it isn't like 2hour abilities aren't allowed to break monsters. Really, Benediction should remove Doom with perfect accuracy, but since that's been denied White Mages, they should be able to prevent it with this new 2hour, along with Zombie, Amnesia, Charm, Muddle, Max HP/MP down, Petrification, Gradual Petrification, Weakness, and maybe even Death (spell). If that's all really an issue, just make it not stack with Perfect Defense and you have a reasonable tradeoff.

I really think White Mage deserves a good 2hour that isn't just instantly doing a couple spells while stealing hate from the tank.



RDM:
Incorrect: Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.

Correct: Grants an increase to the effect of enhancing magic.



Any increase to temper and gain spell's would only effect RDM so that's kind of a win and a lost depending on how you look at it.

Yeah, so Red Mage's 2hour is going to be interesting. If it doesn't let you cast self-cast spells on others, those spells should get a much, much bigger boost then others.

If something like that happens, Red Mage could get Haste, Refresh II, Phalanx II at reasonable amounts for the party for what others essentially call a mini-Embrava, but also get highly souped up Barspells for itself and possibly the party... and then for itself get insanely buffed Temper, Phalanx, Gain-STAT, and Enspells.

Basically, if these spells are still self-cast for the 2hour, a well equipped Red Mage should get 100% Double Attack rate, 50~100+ damage Phalanx, at least doubled Gain-STAT (~50+), and Enspells that make Rainemard blush. I think if this was the case, this would be a great 2hour, since you'd be able to toss a few boosted buffs on your party, then become a demigod for a short amount of time. Melee Red Mages would finally have their time to shine, and without hampering the party to do so.

[Xilk]

The google translated JP version seems to imply an "over the duration" thing that wasn't conveyed in the official translation, which is why I'm leaning towards it just being unclear wording. That said, google translate is google translate, soo...

(for the record: "All of the hostility of their own transfer to the PC in front of you during the time effect, with large damage. " is what google translate gives for the original text)

edit: original text, on the off chance someone here (that isn't in cahoots with camate and the gang) can actually read it: 効果時間中、大ダメージを与えるとともに目の前のPCに自身の敵対心をすべて移す。

Wow, I was going to scream to NEVER RELY ON TRANSLATOR SOFTWARE FOR JAPANESE!!
but the first part of the line does literally say that its for the duration of the effect.

[Tamarsamar]

Yeah, I think RDMs can complain just a little bit now.

What was initially posted was already (relatively) bad, and the correction just made it ever-so-slightly worse.

[SpankWustler]

While just about anything is better then Benediction (which is very situational at best for various reasons), I'd like to point out that this souped up Divine Caress is roughly (maybe exaggerating to make a point here, but still) useless unless it covers EVERY debuff. Perfect Defense exists (and to a lesser extent, the Chainstun combo), so it isn't like 2hour abilities aren't allowed to break monsters. Really, Benediction should remove Doom with perfect accuracy, but since that's been denied White Mages, they should be able to prevent it with this new 2hour, along with Zombie, Amnesia, Charm, Muddle, Max HP/MP down, Petrification, Gradual Petrification, Weakness, and maybe even Death (spell). If that's all really an issue, just make it not stack with Perfect Defense and you have a reasonable tradeoff.

I really think White Mage deserves a good 2hour that isn't just instantly doing a couple spells while stealing hate from the tank.

I agree with this very much.

I just made the assumption that the new White Mage ability will block all status ailments completely for the duration, because if not, it will be worse than Perfect Defense across the board. That outcome just didn't seem like a possibility at the time.

After taking in some of the more lackluster abilities and it thinking about it, that seems like a possibility now. I HAS A SAD.

[Lollerblades]

I can't really see the SCH 2hr being used much - only time I'd probably use it is if some idiot annoyed me ... I'd stand there and watch them die :)

[Unaisis]

Lol, they realized the possibility of RDM's new 2hr having some sort of use~ so they *Fixed* it~

[Bloodrain]

DRK: Steals an enemy's TP through regular attacks while the effect is active.

This is NOT okay. This BLOWS. Are you kidding me?? What happens when the enemy runs out of TP to steal? This is just another completely useless ability given to DRKs. YAY. -.-

I must say that not ALL of the 2 Hours look useless.. But the majority looks REALLY bad.

PLEASE Square Enix PLEASE reconsider most of them. PLEASE

PLEASE

[Chamaan]

Warrior two hour is not competitive with Mighty Strikes. The number of mobs that use Invincible or have shields that can be bypassed by non-ele damage AND are powerful/relevant at 99 enough to necessitate a two hour activation can be counted on one hand. And even then these effects can be gained by Monks using Formless Strikes, Darks using Twilight Scythe, and Cors using Quick Draw, without the use of their two hour abilities.

Please change it to 100% DA/TA activation with the Acc bonus or keep the faux-Formless Strikes and change the Acc bonus to a Weaponskill Damage bonus %.

[Calatilla]

I don't understand SCH`s new 2hr, since when did they have anything to do with hate, bar 1 spell? And completely stripping hate from the WHOLE party? THF would like to have a word with you.

As a THF i`d rather be able to redirect party hate to a single player than a second trick attack.
SE's vision for THF was hate management, then they broke the hate system and the abilities we have right now don't help manage any hate at all, so why if they`re going to add a 2hr like this do they give it to SCH?

[Dragoy]

It doesn't even make sense from a storyline perspective. We don't share any sort of spiritual bond with these pets like a DRG does, so absorbing them seems strange. We just fed them so they followed us home.

And then you feed on them!
It was pretty grim the first time I read it, but your way of thinking might be more... acceptable, haha!


I'm also one that is very interested on the Red Mage's ability. Could it possibly grant a stronger haste than usual for example? I do doubt that, however, and with that said, I'll wait to test them all on the test-server before I say anything more about them.

Though I'm still disappointed even the old ones are '2-hour' abilities in the first place. 30 minutes would be enough to 're-charge' them in my opinion! And no, I'm not saying that because of Nyzul II. I am not even investigating those parts!


Blubb. >:[

[hiko]

This is NOT okay. This BLOWS. Are you kidding me?? What happens when the enemy runs out of TP to steal?


Base Monster physical damage TP gained = Player Base TP per hit (before Store TP but after Delay reduction) + 3 TP
assuming you have dAGi caped, subtle blow capped,penance, yurin (and that they stack) 430delay wepon
(11+3)*.5*.5*.6=2.1
at least 2.1TP from your last hit to drain

2.1 is low but:
-DRK is not a big AGI job (won't cap dAGI)
-DRK doesnt have subtle blow trait, and doesnt use a lot of sb gear
- you can ask your mnk nin thf whm to not use subtleblow effect on a fight you 2h
-other people might have hited it
-monster get tp from its attack

there is little odds that it doesnt have any tp(1st hit after it tp moved on shadows/3rd eye/inv/miss; it used dmg nullification and didnt get any from its attack)

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I don't understand SCH`s new 2hr, since when did they have anything to do with hate, bar 1 spell? And completely stripping hate from the WHOLE party? THF would like to have a word with you.

As a THF i`d rather be able to redirect party hate to a single player than a second trick attack.
SE's vision for THF was hate management, then they broke the hate system and the abilities we have right now don't help manage any hate at all, so why if they`re going to add a 2hr like this do they give it to SCH?

They're supposed to be battle-tacticians, it actually makes sense for SCH, it just wont be used when the first 2-hour is a damn sight better.

This is very on the mark what they wanted SCH to be.

PS. Technically they proved this with two spells for hate gain and reduction, and Libra.



This is NOT okay. This BLOWS. Are you kidding me?? What happens when the enemy runs out of TP to steal? This is just another completely useless ability given to DRKs. YAY. -.-

I must say that not ALL of the 2 Hours look useless.. But the majority looks REALLY bad.

PLEASE Square Enix PLEASE reconsider most of them. PLEASE

PLEASE

Unless you're fighting solo, you're going to be having a LOT of people attacking the enemy, enemy TP should NOT be a problem.

[Vandheer]

BST Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.

D: What the happened here Camate? This does't have anything to do with Beastmaster! Ok fine we do have a pet... but since when do Beastmasters eat their pets?

Looking back at the history of Beastmaster I am very curious as to the trail of thought SE had with the Beastmaster Job. 1-75 Beastmasters rely on Charming pets to exp, utilizing jugs when they have no other choice. Then come 75+ Charm is rendered useless and we are told Jug Pets are the new thing with no Charmable mobs in new content. Now SE expects Beastmaster to call up their pets (this does cost gil to do) then dispose of them to heal ourselves (of hp and status aliments) along with a reraise effect?

No were in Beastmasters history do Beastmasters rely on themselves instead of their pets. Beastmasters work alongside their pets, letting their pets take the majority of damage while the Beastmaster does what must be done. This is the one fact about Beastmaster that has remained consistent through all the twists and turns SE has thrown at the job. For laughs I'd love to hear how the current Job Overview of Beastmaster reads.

As for the idea of this new 2-hour, Beastmaster's wouldn't so much as touch this. Realistically, when are Beastmasters to use this? We can't use it to save ourselves in a tight spot once our pet dies because we need a pet to discard to use it. Additionally we can't use it to heal ourselves with our pet taking damage for us...

So someone please explain to me what happened here! :confused:


*The name and help text messages for each ability will be tentative when implemented to the test server. Also the effects and their values may be adjusted.

Camate, please tell the Devs that this new Beastmaster 2-hour is unacceptable. From neither a Beastmaster gameplay standpoint and a storyline standpoint does this 2-hour remotely make sense. In the bolded font just above you say "the effects may be adjusted" we need to see this --> "Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect." completely removed and redone with a useful ability Beastmaster can utilize.

Apart from Beastmaster (which i stress because it is my main and favorite job within the game) there are many other 2-hours that I believe need to be taken back to the drawing board. BLM, RDM, BST, DRG being what I believe need the most attention and should be completely redone. Before questioning the other 2hours I'd like to know what the plans are for these jobs obtaining these 2-hours? If Merits what would Meriting these 2hours do to better them? Also will these 2-hours share a timer with the current 2-hours or will they be on a different 2-hour timer? Additionally can we get the duration time of each of these 2-hours as it is vital in discerning the effectiveness of most of these 2-hours.

[Camate]

A good question was raised as to whether these new 2-hour abilities can all be unlocked and utilized or if it will be similar to the new merit-able weapon skills where you have to decide which ones you want to unlock.

Once the level requirement is fulfilled for each job, you will be able to use all of the new 2-hour abilities. Also, just to reiterate what was stated quite a while back, these new 2-hour abilities will share the recast timers of the original 2-hour abilities, so players can choose which one to use based on the situation.

We are also planning to introduce a way to enhance the abilities via merit points, which will be the next step for adjustments planned for the latter half of 2012. While the specifics for this have not been decided at this time, the plan is to add this to each job category. Also, there won’t be any restrictions on which jobs you can enhance as it will be possible to put merit points into each one.

Finally, in regards to a question about thief’s ability:


Can we get some clarification on the THF ability while your at it? Is it a duration effect? or a one shot move?

The major damage dealt will be a single attack. You can kind of think of it as the way Sneak Attack is used.

[Theytak]

A good question was raised as to whether these new 2-hour abilities can all be unlocked and utilized or if it will be similar to the new merit-able weapon skills where you have to decide which ones you want to unlock.

Once the level requirement is fulfilled for each job, you will be able to use all of the new 2-hour abilities. Also, just to reiterate what was stated quite a while back, these new 2-hour abilities will share the recast timers of the original 2-hour abilities, so players can choose which one to use based on the situation.

We are also planning to introduce a way to enhance the abilities via merit points, which will be the next step for adjustments planned for the latter half of 2012. While the specifics for this have not been decided at this time, the plan is to add this to each job category. Also, there won’t be any restrictions on which jobs you can enhance as it will be possible to put merit points into each one.

Finally, in regards to a question about thief’s ability:

The major damage dealt will be a single attack. You can kind of think of it as the way Sneak Attack is used.

...Yea, see, most of these 2hours are complete garbage, that won't ever be worth using over the already existing ones. Many of them are slightly stronger repeats of abilities we've already received (whm (divine caress), pld (palisade/reprisal), nin (issekigan), drg (spirit link), apparently thf (since it's just TA2)). C'mon now, camate, the devs can't seriously think reskinning JOB ABILITIES for the same jobs that already have them is acceptable, or anything other than absolute laziness, can they? Gear is one thing, but job abilities? We've been waiting for ages for these new 2hours, and they're so disappointing that it's painful, don't the devs have anything to say on all of the negative feed back?

[Daniel_Hatcher]

So SCH's will never be used among others then.

[Aarahs]

So SCH's will never be used among others then.

Why not? I can recall several threads where people complained about pld not being able to keep hate in zergs.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Why not? I can recall several threads where people complained about pld not being able to keep hate in zergs.

lolPLD holding hate or the DD's without a PLD killing quicker and surviving thanks to Embrava.

Unless you fight only ONE enemy (even then it doesn't take DD's long to recap hate) the 2-hour is useless compared to Embrava.

[Delvish]

So SCH's will never be used among others then.

Outside of Aarahs' note on use (in which case Embrava is still better since melee will cap enmity within a minute anyway regardless) there is one other reason that this is a very nice ability. Whenever you have a party member that you find really really annoying, just slap this ability on them and watch that HP bar plummet.

[Zirael]

Why not? I can recall several threads where people complained about pld not being able to keep hate in zergs.
You bring PLD to zergs?

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Outside of Aarahs' note on use (in which case Embrava is still better since melee will cap enmity within a minute anyway regardless) there is one other reason that this is a very nice ability. Whenever you have a party member that you find really really annoying, just slap this ability on them and watch that HP bar plummet.

Even then unless you had a means to restore it you'd be butchered for wasting a chance at Embrava.

[Andreah]

We are also planning to introduce a way to enhance the abilities via merit points, which will be the next step for adjustments planned for the latter half of 2012. While the specifics for this have not been decided at this time, the plan is to add this to each job category. Also, there won’t be any restrictions on which jobs you can enhance as it will be possible to put merit points into each one.

Dear Camate;

Would you be so kind as to provide any further details about Dancer's new two-hour? I was curious as to the possibility of meriting down the recast timers of Flourishes while under the effect of the new proposed two-hour, or if there's a possibility of this coming naturally with the job ability, possibility at a weaker state to enhance further at a later date. I think this would enhance the two-hour as it is enough to really prove useful to many different Dancer builds regardless of their main focus.

[Zirael]

Finally, in regards to a question about thief’s ability:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by FrankReynolds http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/showthread.php?p=346061#post346061)
Can we get some clarification on the THF ability while your at it? Is it a duration effect? or a one shot move?



The major damage dealt will be a single attack. You can kind of think of it as the way Sneak Attack is used.
I was hoping Developers would have known by now the utility of Eagle Eye Shot, which is, none. Just a glorified weaponskill.

If the Developers are out of ideas for useful THF 2-hour, here's one, modified version of yours:
For 45 seconds every attack done by a THF from behind the enemy will be treated as a Sneak Attack (including weaponskills) and modified by DEX the same way as Sneak Attack is. If there is another character between THF and the enemy, every such attack will be treated as Trick Attack, and modified by AGI. These effects will stack, so if THF is behind the enemy AND has someone in front of them to transfer hate, both SA/TA effects will occur with DEX/AGI modifiers stacking.

There, THF becomes useful in party situations, zergs AND becomes master of hate management (as promised long time ago by the Devs) for 45 seconds.

[Theytak]

You bring PLD to zergs?
I'm more confused by the implication that a sch would be at a zerg and not have already used their 2hour. If you're zerging without embrava, but you have it at your disposal, you're doing something very, very wrong...

[FrankReynolds]

Scholars new 2hr ability: Force death on afk leechers in abyssea exp parties.

Seriously though, Would you be zerging with only one party? Or would you be wasting a SCH 2hr in every party? Because putting all of one parties hate on the "Tank" doesn't really do diddly squat in an alliance.

/sadface

So thief does just get trick attack.

[Cowardlybabooon]

Maybe the trick attack version could be good if it does like 5000+ damage.

[Zirael]

Maybe the trick attack version could be good if it does like 5000+ damage.
A MightyStrikes-WAR or Souleater-DRK next to you will be spamming 5000 Resolutions every five seconds in a proper zerg. I'm not even joking.

[Calamity]

It was bad enough that most of these 2hrs seem like abilities that should have a recast of more like 5-10 minutes... but now we're told we need to choose between these or our older (in most cases superior) 2hrs? What part of this seemed like a good idea again?

[FrankReynolds]

It was bad enough that most of these 2hrs seem like abilities that should have a recast of more like 5-10 minutes... but now we're told we need to choose between these or our older (in most cases superior) 2hrs? What part of this seemed like a good idea again?

I agree. They should have put the old abilities (or some of these) onto a separate timer and in many cases wayyyyyy shorter.

[tyrantsyn]

So here's my question, will there be more 2 hour abilities too come? Or is this it. Just kind of curious.

[Calamity]

So here's my question, will there be more 2 hour abilities too come? Or is this it. Just kind of curious.

Dude, if this is what they believe new 2hrs should be, I don't want any more -.-

[Kari]

these new 2-hour abilities will share the recast timers of the original 2-hour abilities, so players can choose which one to use based on the situation.

Finally, in regards to a question about thief’s ability:
The major damage dealt will be a single attack. You can kind of think of it as the way Sneak Attack is used.

SE once again proves that they have no idea how to develop their game.
Seriously. A good portion of these 2 hour abilities are much, much worse than the original 2 hours.
Most of them are better suited for a Job Ability on a 10-20 minute timer.
I thought they were bad enough NOT sharing a cooldown...but now, lol.

Please scrap this and try again. I sincerely ask this of you.

[Chuk]

So I read the list and all I can say is..................

THF: should be constant emnity transfer to person infront, Critical rate and damage increased, doesn't effect weaponskills.

RDM: Should be more along the lines of all self buffs become transferable to the party upon cast. Thats more i can save the party than i get a slightly stronger protect or stoneskin or phalanx or whatever you would envision "Enhance enhancement effect".

BST: Really? eat your pet? I would rather see something more along the lines of Recover Pet HP/TP and reset pet ability timers than eat my pet and attempt to save my own skin.

WHM: Should be something like high Regen Regain Phalanx and then Reraise 3 for the entire party. Embrava +2, protection from status aliments just is lackluster against Benediction. Unless it prevents instant KO, but somehow i doubt it.

SCH: This should just be changed to something else. I only see people using this to grief other players. Even if they have to be in your party, i can just see this being used to MPK people.

Thats my two cents!
~Chuk

[Keyln]

Hey guys, I love whining as much as the next guy, but could we wait until they get to the test server before we start pouring the haterade?

[Aprian]

Please change SCH new 2-hour abilite
I have 2 Ideas:

1-would be better to have the ability to use Embrava and kaustra
2-use the grimoire red (Crimson Grimoire) as if it were a pet

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Hey guys, I love whining as much as the next guy, but could we wait until they get to the test server before we start pouring the haterade?

SCH's will be rubbish, it doesn't matter if it's on the test-server or not, unless it's a separate timer it'll be a waste....

RDM's was nerfed before even being added, enough said!

[Byrth]

If these are just the descriptions, they might not be quite as bad as they sound.

Trance - While in effect, lowers TP cost of Waltzes and Steps to 0. (doesn't mention that it also reduces Waltz timers to a flat 6 seconds)

Perhaps the new DNC 2-hour does something similar! Otherwise it'll only really be good for one more WS every two hours.

[Volarione]

I just don't get all the hate on the new sch 2 hour, it seems awsome to me although yes I will use it to mpk leeches in abyss, riight before I kick them. Don't get me wrong I love embrava but I've gone days without using my 2 hour, this wouldn'tbother me at all. It's not like its hard to stay alive and kill quickly anymore.

[Luvbunny]

The amount of pure BS and not knowing their own game and what the player base want is utterly ridiculous on these new 2 hours idea, it's like they are completely out of touch with the player base and totally clueless on what those jobs do. I feel sorry for these reps that constantly have to deliver bad news after bad news. Ever since they finished with Abyssea content, everything else that come out from the developers are grade A craptastic grind fest content all in the name of cheap time sink that require very little effort from their end. With "barance" after "barance" right and left nerfing most of the jobs in the game.

If you so kindly forward the messages here to the developers in Japan, with a note: that there are non japanese players out there, who also have opinions and play this game and pay the monthly fees. As well as maybe try to emulate the vision and effort of one of your own visionary director that is currently handling the impossible task to save the mother of all disaster that is FFXIV.

[Keyln]

SCH's will be rubbish, it doesn't matter if it's on the test-server or not, unless it's a separate timer it'll be a waste....

RDM's was nerfed before even being added, enough said!

And maybe that nerf was necessary. And maybe the SCH 2 hour will have applicable uses when in party play (not everything is a zerg fest).

All I'm saying is at least we give a try on the test servers before we start whining about them. The way I see it, these abilities will simply not be used, and nothing will be gained, but nothing will be lost either.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

And maybe that nerf was necessary. And maybe the SCH 2 hour will have applicable uses when in party play (not everything is a zerg fest).

All I'm saying is at least we give a try on the test servers before we start whining about them. The way I see it, these abilities will simply not be used, and nothing will be gained, but nothing will be lost either.

Yeah, a duration increase is so OP it's sickening..... Stupid Perpetuance.....

Do tell me in which way would SCH's new two-hour be more useful than a 15 minute spell that gives Regain, Haste and huge HP Regen? Remembering how easy it is to cap hate again.

[Sotek]

Change most of these to being enmity based.

WAR - Attacks deal additional non-elemental damage proportional to enmity.
BLM - Elemental magic deals damage proportional to enmity.
BST - Pet deals additional damage proportional to its enmity.
RNG - EES but proportional to enmity, enmity is wiped after attack.
DRG - Delivers a jumping attack with damage proportional to enmity.
NIN - Mijin Gakure II, damage proportional to enmity and modified by number of shadows.
PLD - Physical attacks deal damage proportional to enmity.
THF - Transfers enmity to the player in front of you and inflicts bleed damage proportional to enmity.
SCH - Absorbs all enmity from party members and transfers it to the target, removing their enmity cap.

All of those 2Hrs wouldn't be weak either, with just the regular enmity cap PLD, BST and WAR would be dealing 1k damage per swing, BLM would be doing 20k Thunder Vs, DRG, RNG and NIN with full shadows would be doing 30k damage, THFs bleed damage would do 1k/tic. Stack it with SCHs 2Hr and you've got "We could zerg... Or we could one hit it".

OK, I'm not really being serious there (though THFs should inflict Bleed damage) I just want to illustrate a point: Why does SCH have anything enmity related?

Seriously, think about it. Why does SCH have anything related to seeing and controlling enmity when there is absolutely no tactical application for it? DDs can all pretty much tank. WHM doesn't gain enmity. BLM can wipe it clean completely. Literally the only jobs that have an issue with enmity that they can't natively deal with are perhaps RNG and SCH itself. What's the bloody point in giving a job pseudo-control over enmity when there is absolutely no point in controlling enmity? It's bad enough that the developers do absolutely nothing with this concept, it's actually a pretty decent concept (illustrated above, just tone it down a notch) that I was looking forward to when I was blissfully unaware back at Lv.75, then they gave me Libra which does absolutely nothing and is just annoying to use (because of the range on it), followed by Animus spells which are a waste of MP and certainly don't require Libra since they're just Pax and Anti-Pax. A year later they finally come back to the concept, with something that would actually sort of work... And it's a 2Hr... What? No.

Take SCHs new 2Hr, change it to an enmity based Sublimation and put it on a similar recast to Sublimation. Use it on Target A (can be self targeted), it stored their enmity over time up to a certain cap. Use it again on Target B, they gain the stored enmity (or, use it again, it enhances the effect of your next Animus spell, giving or removing the stored enmity depending on the spell). There, I can use Libra, see who's getting the most enmity that isn't the tank, use this on them to maximize its potential and then use it again to help with enmity control. Still fairly worthless because who the hell cares about enmity, but at least it's something.

A new SCH 2Hr if I think this one should just be a regular ability? As far as I'm concerned Embrava and Kaustra are SCHs new 2Hr, we just got them many months in advance. Tabula Rasa was adjusted when they tripled its duration and had it enhance Helices and Regen, Embrava and Kaustra should be a whole other 2Hr. I said as much when they first released Embrava and Kaustra followed by announcing every job would get new 2Hrs, and I'll do it again now: Why the hell did you waste an update only adding to SCHs 2Hr when you intend to add new 2Hrs anyway?
So, new SCH 2Hr:
Summa Omnium (Sum of All, if I'm not mistaken) - Grants access to Embrava or Kaustra for a single cast. Constitutes as a nerf as well, since it knocks Embravas duration down ~3 minutes and you can only apply it to a single PT.

[SpankWustler]

Thanks for getting back to us so quick, Camate.


We are also planning to introduce a way to enhance the abilities via merit points, which will be the next step for adjustments planned for the latter half of 2012. While the specifics for this have not been decided at this time, the plan is to add this to each job category. Also, there won’t be any restrictions on which jobs you can enhance as it will be possible to put merit points into each one.

This makes me feel a bit better about how lackluster most of the abilities seem to be.

The Development Bros are big fans of making the base level of something worse than sentient herpes if there is a way to improve on it. So if nothing else, the new two-hours make more sense to me compared to relatively recent additions such as Perfect Defense or Embrava now.

Plus, I can hold out hope to just merit the old two-hour abilities if some of these (Beastmaster and Blue Mage REPRESENT) are as sad and broken on even a conceptual level as they sound.


Finally, in regards to a question about thief’s ability:

The major damage dealt will be a single attack. You can kind of think of it as the way Sneak Attack is used.

And this makes me feel worse again! In the best case scenario, this will at least have a DEX/AGI modifier so it scales better with level than Eagle Eye Shot. In the worst case scenario, Eagle Eye Shot.

After saying it so many times, Eagle Eye Shot is haunting this topic. Rattling all 5.0 of its chains and moaning, "Thee~eeee chii~iiii~llld~'sss sss~ooo~uuu~llll iiis mii~ine! ONE OF US!" as it looks upon the birth of the saddest of the incoming two-hour abilities.

[Luvbunny]

A new 2 hours ability should be extremely overpowered and game changing since you can only use it every 2 hours. It should mean to turn the tide of battles, from no chance of winning to ensure your chance of WIN. Embrava + Kaustra were developed during the golden age of Abyssea - as well as puppetmaster update and dragoon. Perhaps the developers should hire that same group who came up with this fantastic idea instead of spewing up bullshit after bullshit of ideas.

[Tamarsamar]

To Red Mages requesting a buff transfer as a new 2-hour . . .

I'd much rather have that as a regular Ability, thank you very much. \('_'\)

[Demon6324236]

new 2-hour abilities will share the recast timers of the original 2-hour abilities.

WAR=Mighty Strikes
MNK=Hundred Fists
WHM=New
BLM=Manafont
RDM=Chainspell
THF=New?
PLD=Invincible
DRK=New
BST=Familiar
BRD=Soul Voice
RNG=New?
SAM=New
NIN=New
DRG=Spirit Surge
SMN=Astral Flow
BLU=Azure Lore
COR=Wild Card(2-hour reset is the only thing I ever see COR used for in any event where 2-hours are needed...)
PUP=New
DNC=New
SCH=TABULA RASA!

This is my list of the 2-hours that will be used thanks to this choice. The rest will likely sit in the JA list, never to be used except on very very rare occasion or by people doing it to screw around.

[Demon6324236]

A new 2 hours ability should be extremely overpowered and game changing since you can only use it every 2 hours. It should mean to turn the tide of battles, from no chance of winning to ensure your chance of WIN. Embrava + Kaustra were developed during the golden age of Abyssea - as well as puppetmaster update and dragoon. Perhaps the developers should hire that same group who came up with this fantastic idea instead of spewing up bullshit after bullshit of ideas.

Very much agreed, the most overpowered 2-hours in the game are Tabula Rasa, and Astral Flow, not because of their normal effects however, its due to the spells/summonings available during them. Embrava, Kaustra, Perfect Defense, and Instant Death, are all great. Why not have more 2-hours like this, that warrant a long recast like a 2-hour has?

[FrankReynolds]

Plus, I can hold out hope to just merit the old two-hour abilities if some of these (Beastmaster and Blue Mage REPRESENT) are as sad and broken on even a conceptual level as they sound.


I hate to say it, but I would be really surprised if they let us merit the old abilities. Could you imagine if perfect defense and embrava got even more powerful?

[Theytak]

And maybe that nerf was necessary. And maybe the SCH 2 hour will have applicable uses when in party play (not everything is a zerg fest).

All I'm saying is at least we give a try on the test servers before we start whining about them. The way I see it, these abilities will simply not be used, and nothing will be gained, but nothing will be lost either.
Honestly, so many of these are either conceptually terrible or blatant repeats of abilities jobs already have that we don't even need them to hit the test server to see how terrible they are.

However, knowing SE, it's going to play out like this:
- This thread gets posted
- Everyone is disappointed by how much the new 2 hours suck
- SE says that they have no intention of drastically altering any of these abilities, they will only adjust values and potencies
- Everyone reiterates how terrible these abilities are, despite SE refusing to listen to our feedback
- new 2hours go live on the test server
- Everyone gets on and confirms that most of these abilities are useless/terrible, and the ones that aren't end up being even weaker than they sounded on paper due to horribly short durations, or draw-backs SE conveniently forgot to mention
- Everyone continues to explain to SE why these new 2hours are terrible and why most of them need to be completely redesigned
- SE ignores feed back, as per always, and releases the new 2 hours as they are on the test server, only changing some values here or there to weaken some of the stronger ones for BALANCE.
- SE manages to yet again affirm that it doesn't care about NA player feed back at all.


WAR=Mighty Strikes
MNK=Hundred Fists, unless fighting something that can hundred fists right back
WHM=New
BLM=Manafont
RDM=Chainspell
THF=New, while crying
PLD=Invincible
DRK=New, unless it sucks, then it'll still be bloodweapon/souleater
BST=Familiar
BRD=Soul Voice
RNG=New?
SAM=Meikyo Shisui, unless fighting an Ironclad or some other TP-move melee attack monster, then either/or
NIN=New, unless they want a free warp later
DRG=Spirit Surge
SMN=Astral Flow (if PD is necessary), otherwise New
BLU=Azure Lore
COR=Wild Card(2-hour reset is the only thing I ever see COR used for in any event where 2-hours are needed...)
PUP=Neither, because they're both terrible and not worth using over having your 2hour on a different job
DNC=New
SCH=TABULA RASA!

This is my list of the 2-hours that will be used thanks to this choice. The rest will likely sit in the JA list, never to be used except on very very rare occasion or by people doing it to screw around.

Fixed for accuracy

[Aldersyde]

Hey guys, I love whining as much as the next guy, but could we wait until they get to the test server before we start pouring the haterade?

Why? Some of them are so bad (for a 2-hour timer), that they need to be reassessed right away, before they waste time and money with their implementation on to the test server.

[Calamity]

WAR=Mighty Strikes
MNK=Hundred Fists
WHM=New
BLM=Manafont
RDM=Chainspell
THF=New?
PLD=Invincible
DRK=New
BST=Familiar
BRD=Soul Voice
RNG=New?
SAM=New
NIN=New
DRG=Spirit Surge
SMN=Astral Flow
BLU=Azure Lore
COR=Wild Card(2-hour reset is the only thing I ever see COR used for in any event where 2-hours are needed...)
PUP=New
DNC=New
SCH=TABULA RASA!

This is my list of the 2-hours that will be used thanks to this choice. The rest will likely sit in the JA list, never to be used except on very very rare occasion or by people doing it to screw around.

If I didn't have this terrible suspicion that SE would make it amount to like 5tp per hit AND be highly resistable on anything that counts, I'd probably agree. But I refuse outright to get my hopes up for this in any way.

[Demon6324236]

If I didn't have this terrible suspicion that SE would make it amount to like 5tp per hit AND be highly resistable on anything that counts, I'd probably agree. But I refuse outright to get my hopes up for this in any way.

5TP/Hit on a 5hit build should make it a 4hit build so wouldn't be so bad in all honesty :x

as for the other remark on my list...


MNK=Hundred Fists, unless fighting something that can hundred fists right back
THF=New, while crying
DRK=New, unless it sucks, then it'll still be bloodweapon/souleater
SAM=Meikyo Shisui, unless fighting an Ironclad or some other TP-move melee attack monster, then either/or
NIN=New, unless they want a free warp later
SMN=Astral Flow (if PD is necessary), otherwise New
PUP=Neither, because they're both terrible and not worth using over having your 2hour on a different job
MNK I agree, but still, not alot of things use HF so I figured not worth noting.
THF, yeah, shitty choices, new looks... somewhat more useful than PDodge is now days... I think.
DRK I figure it will be better than BW in almost all cases as long as it doesn't completely suck , but I could be wrong.
SAM I figure alot/most endgame mobs that have been added recently are TP attacking mobs (Harpia, Ironclads, Naraka...) so it would be the more likely if your 2-houring, not to mention imo the best use of Meikyo Shisui is gone seeing as it was for SCing :x.
NIN yeah, has a free warp or can lose weakness but at the same time I don't see it as such a good thing as the current 2-hour is... well... suicide, not alot of battle usage.
SMN soloing yes, new will be great, however~ anything party related, SMN will have no use at all, which is why I said Astral, same with RDM & Chainspell, outside of partys I never chainspell really, but enhancing buffs doesn't seem likely because if you want that, you get a SCH for Embrava, RDM is for Chainspell.
PUP yeah, PUP's may not be to good, same as THF, same as NIN, but still, out of the 2 the new one is probably what will be used more often than not.

[Raucent]

May as well bet on it already the DRK one will yet again be Nigh useless on anything Undead.

[Sp1cyryan]

.....lolpup2h.....


If the current PUP 2 hour was 3-5 minutes (and maybe had some sort of minor refresh, regain, and regen) instead of 1 minute then it would not be such junk, but the new one is at least better than the old one. Certainly better than not 2 houring at all if you are on the job.

[Calamity]

May as well bet on it already the DRK one will yet again be Nigh useless on anything Undead.

Nigh useless is being optimistic, it it drains tp as it says, it will in fact be, completely useless. Can I have the new sam 2hr instead?

[Arcon]

A new 2 hours ability should be extremely overpowered and game changing since you can only use it every 2 hours.

I severely disagree. No 2 hours should be overpowered like that, because it will lead to Embrava situations all over again. Events don't happen often enough for the 2 hours to be an issue. So what if you have to take a 2 hour break between Odin and Legion? If everyone gets insanely overpowered killer abilities every two hours, that's exactly what would happen. People would keep abusing them and normal gameplay would lose all of its current value at endgame.

I don't care how (much more) unpopular this will make me sound, but I'll say it: remove all 2 hour abilities. They're a design flaw. In a game with sparse events like this waiting two hours means nothing if 2 hour abilities are overpowered, and people will do just that, wait for their timers. If they aren't overpowered though, they won't even be worth using due to their huge delay and will always remain very situational. My suggestion is weaken their effects and make them all on a 5~10min recast. I know it would break many current strategies (and by that I mean the one strategy everyone uses on everything, namely Embrava and Perfect Defense zerg), but it seems like the only reasonable thing to do to keep the gameplay this game was designed on in the game somehow, because right now it isn't.

[Karbuncle]

So.... THF's new 2hour is going to be a 1-hit Ability.

I wonder if its going to be weaker than a Normal Trick Attack WS. My bet is... Yes. Significantly weaker, to the point I'll probably stick to Keeping Perfect Dodge timer up incase I get links in Dynamis or something.

Oh... Poop. I promised myself i wouldn't be negative about updates. I can't help myself. :(

Thanks for the update :)!

[Alistaire]

We are looking forward to hearing your thoughts after testing them out.

Translation: Quit your bitching till you try them.

Response: No. Most of these aren't even mildly good with the most over-optimistic fantasies about best-case-scenario effects and durations.

[Mirage]

So here's a question, SE: Who do abilities have to be on 2 hour timers anyway? I mean we have abilities that range from 15 seconds to 15 minutes, and then there are no abilities on a cooldown between 15 minutes and 2 hours. Can't you just add these new abilities on a 30 minute timer or something? Or let the cooldown actually vary based on the power of the ability. 30-60 minutes is enough to make these abilities feel special, and not something you just throw out whenever the ability has cooled down.

[Kristal]

And this makes me feel worse again! In the best case scenario, this will at least have a DEX/AGI modifier so it scales better with level than Eagle Eye Shot. In the worst case scenario, Eagle Eye Shot.

After saying it so many times, Eagle Eye Shot is haunting this topic. Rattling all 5.0 of its chains and moaning, "Thee~eeee chii~iiii~llld~'sss sss~ooo~uuu~llll iiis mii~ine! ONE OF US!" as it looks upon the birth of the saddest of the incoming two-hour abilities.

It'll be hilarious if Auto Eye Shot actually deals good damage when used by an automaton ;D

[hiko]

WAR=Mighty Strikes
MNK=Hundred Fists, unless fighting something that can hundred fists right back
WHM=New
BLM=Manafont
RDM=Chainspell
THF=New, while crying
PLD=Invincible
DRK=New, unless it sucks, then it'll still be bloodweapon/souleater
BST=Familiar
BRD=Soul Voice
RNG=New?
SAM=Meikyo Shisui, unless fighting an Ironclad or some other TP-move melee attack monster, then either/or
NIN=New, unless they want a free warp later
DRG=Spirit Surge
SMN=Astral Flow (if PD is necessary), otherwise New
BLU=Azure Lore
COR=Wild Card(2-hour reset is the only thing I ever see COR used for in any event where 2-hours are needed...)
PUP=Neither, because they're both terrible and not worth using over having your 2hour on a different job
DNC=New
SCH=TABULA RASA!

This is my list of the 2-hours that will be used thanks to this choice. The rest will likely sit in the JA list, never to be used except on very very rare occasion or by people doing it to screw around.

Fixed for accuracy

mnk: disagree, HF is near useless in zerg situation (cap delay reduction without it), the new one adds some extra hit
sam:same, with embrava/tactical you WS as fast without MS (you don't get TP while MS)+no dmg taken from physical AOEs

[Tanama]

I agree with all who say these "2-hour" abilities seem more like 10 - 20 minute abilities instead.

Honestly, I was expecting to see something that would stand out and make my jaw drop.

[Demon6324236]

I agree with all who say these "2-hour" abilities seem more like 10 - 20 minute abilities instead.

Honestly, I was expecting to see something that would stand out and make my jaw drop.

After what we have seen with Astral Flow & Tabula Rasa thanks to the additions of Embrava, Kaustra, Alexander, and Odin, I think we all were, and we were all disappointed in some way as soon as we started to hear about these.

[Suteru]

So here's a question, SE: Who do abilities have to be on 2 hour timers anyway? I mean we have abilities that range from 15 seconds to 15 minutes, and then there are no abilities on a cooldown between 15 minutes and 2 hours. Can't you just add these new abilities on a 30 minute timer or something? Or let the cooldown actually vary based on the power of the ability. 30-60 minutes is enough to make these abilities feel special, and not something you just throw out whenever the ability has cooled down.

You mean 20 minutes.

Also COR's will be useless. An extra Phantom Roll, so what? I feel that this ability should be on a much shorter timer. It'll be especially useless after a double (or triple!) bust.

[Vik_Justice]

This stuff sounds pretty great. Some of it situational, but nothing here is particularly "bad."

[Demon6324236]

This stuff sounds pretty great. Some of it situational, but nothing here is particularly "bad."

Are you sure you read them all correctly? Alot of them use Enmity as a focus, which has been kinda dead for some time now.

[Mefuki]

This stuff sounds pretty great. Some of it situational, but nothing here is particularly "bad."

I would suggest reading them again because DRG, for example, got Spirit Link on a 2-hour timer essentially.

[Calatilla]

I would suggest reading them again because DRG, for example, got Spirit Link on a 2-hour timer essentially.

And THF got Trick Attack on a 2hr recast

[Nawesemo]

I think i talk for alot of blms ... we just want to force a crit once in a while, (not every 2 hrs though) but a rediculous 15 min timer (meritable) and the ability to force a crit would make ALOT of us happy as to regaining our title of "Mage" Being the red headed step children to parents who love their blu isn't cool but once upon a time if it could die by magic, WE were the ones to be asked to aga it. not so much anymore ; ; I don't mean to hate on the overpowered ness that is blu mage, but f me gang... just admit it's broken and I'll be happy. (or give every mob that the mimic'd spell that was a job ability that takes mp to preform was learned, MP so we can aspir it... that'll make me happy too) but a single 15 min cooldown forcable crit. ... I loooooove being able to break 10k's and see spikes to 14, but when i watch a blue mage do what they do to 20 mobs, and put out more cumalitive dmg with magic than a blm can... somethings wrong. We could/can deal with sch's big heads and their spikes,... doing more dmg than us from time to time, but please restore us to our king poo Nuking place. (keep in mind i'm talking about a real blu mage not some gimpy burnt don't know how to gear for squat on any given spell... I'm talking about the ones that know what they're doing ....unless my blu's are that unique... (they're pretty bad ass i'll give them that :D) bottom line, when 6 blu's can do something faster more efficient than 6 of any other job ...... that job is broken. I'm sure I'm on an island here given alot of people seen the greatness that is blu and jumped on the wagon and may feel defensive about this, but... imo blu is broken. or their spell dmg formula is. (I am not certain but I believe charged whisker doesn't suffer from # of mobs it's hitting as much as our aga's ... and that's messed up. We the Black mages object!

[Theytak]

I think i talk for alot of blms ... we just want to force a crit once in a while, (not every 2 hrs though) but a rediculous 15 min timer (meritable) and the ability to force a crit would make ALOT of us happy as to regaining our title of "Mage" Being the red headed step children to parents who love their blu isn't cool but once upon a time if it could die by magic, WE were the ones to be asked to aga it. not so much anymore ; ; I don't mean to hate on the overpowered ness that is blu mage, but f me gang... just admit it's broken and I'll be happy. (or give every mob that the mimic'd spell that was a job ability that takes mp to preform was learned, MP so we can aspir it... that'll make me happy too) but a single 15 min cooldown forcable crit. ... I loooooove being able to break 10k's and see spikes to 14, but when i watch a blue mage do what they do to 20 mobs, and put out more cumalitive dmg with magic than a blm can... somethings wrong. We could/can deal with sch's big heads and their spikes,... doing more dmg than us from time to time, but please restore us to our king poo Nuking place. (keep in mind i'm talking about a real blu mage not some gimpy burnt don't know how to gear for squat on any given spell... I'm talking about the ones that know what they're doing ....unless my blu's are that unique... (they're pretty bad ass i'll give them that :D) bottom line, when 6 blu's can do something faster more efficient than 6 of any other job ...... that job is broken. I'm sure I'm on an island here given alot of people seen the greatness that is blu and jumped on the wagon and may feel defensive about this, but... imo blu is broken. or their spell dmg formula is. (I am not certain but I believe charged whisker doesn't suffer from # of mobs it's hitting as much as our aga's ... and that's messed up. We the Black mages object!

I'm sorry, I can't read this. Please use your enter key, differentiate your sentences so that you don't have 6-line-long runons, and make more standard use of commas, rather than ellipsis. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm telling you how to make your post legible so that we can actually understand your opinion.

[Ullysses]

Wow...I honestly feel like SE does not know how to develop a game correctly. We are doing their jobs as developers by telling them what we want and they still can not get it right. As many have stated the majority of these abilities shout NOT be considered two-hour abilities rather 15-20min abilities. It is really not that difficult to do something right when you can take the complaints about the old two hour abilities and use that the make better ones.

[Theytak]

Now see, I was very polite, and offered you an idea of how to edit your post so that it would be legible. It's not a matter of being on a high horse, it's a matter of proper discourse and respect for your fellow reader's eyeballs. Acting like that just defeats the purpose of you posting at all, because it means everyone instantly stops caring and just ignores your existence outright.

I fail to see how your obnoxious response was justified.

[Nawesemo]

Shoot the forceable crit could come with whm bene hate status and I'd still Love S.e. for it. Stop skrewing blms!!!
We have the smallest job ability list, crappiest w.s. save cata ( In the event for whatever reason a blm decides to hit something with a pole *shudders, (and it ain't even that good)), and lol relic (mythic gets a pass per what I've read, I'll let the few who know have their say on that). Job Ability= forcable crit. or a +50 mab 1nce per 20 min ability would do. sommmmmething.... ffs.

Meteor yeahhhhh sch gets kastura /facepalm rdm gets refresh 2 /facepalm and wtf is occult accumen doing on blm? >:/

[Nawesemo]

likewise smart guy.

[Balloon]

I don't mean to hate on the overpowered ness that is blu mage, but f me gang... just admit it's broken and I'll be happy.

BLU isn't overpowered. It has a spell that allows them to cleave efficiently. WAR can cleave efficiently too.

Try taking that same blu and having it cast any physical magic spell on a target over level 99 and you'll soon start to see how your idea that blu is op is false. You'll never see a BLU parsing top at Bot Rex. Perhaps that multiple target damage reduction should be removed from BLM, I sort of agree that it's not really relevant anymore. To call blu overpowered for that single ability though is laughable. Blue mage is the king of fodder content, and has a few useful tools like a cheap quick stun, but falls short on high level content.

When someone politely tells you that your post is illegible you shouldn't hurl insults and throw your toys out of the pram. He was very restrained. Very.

[kingfury]

I can only chime in where I feel most passionate...
WAR's new 2hr ability:

Ominislash (http://youtu.be/KCu79yUG5x4) (With every melee weapon a WAR can wield and we catch a Gaxe at the end)

Should be considered "Latent Effect". Max damage with each weapon dependent on the player having Maxed skill ratings in each melee weapon category. :D
That's a critical strike using:
Gaxe
Axe
Sword
Gsword
Dagger
Club
Staff
Sycthe
Polearm
H2H
Now, insert lovely animation here and add a cup to catch the drooling faces.

DOOOOEEEETTTTT DEVs /(>.<')\

[Nawesemo]

:/ lol you pick the one nm that blm destroys to give an example for blue? nooooooo no no no that doesn't make up for the injustice, the defense of it's bandwagon will be swift, and stroooong but in the pitter patter of every blues heart they know they don't deserve the power they have. self skillchaining mb'ing critters they are, .... nerf them all I say. but making blm buffer would be my prefered rout. that's my 2 cents anyway.

[Zuidar]

From what I see from the new 2 hour abilities, there's a few that are promising and some that are kinda a bit off.
We have THF which is kinda like a Eagle Eye Shot-like Trick Attack? Scholar, I'm kinda confused about this one considering there's lacking of proper Enmity tools for SCH. Sure there's Augeo and Minuo but that's just it. Libra doesn't really count for as it only roughly estimates on party members' Enmity. Basically SCH's new 2HR is like something that is one of THF's specialties: Enmity Control, SCH can't control enmity.

[Theytak]

god, I really, really, really wish SE would temporarily reduce the recast on these abilities for the test server, testing abilities that last less than a minute and require you to run back to you rmog house between every single use is so many levels of unbelievable obnoxiousness.

[Balloon]

:/ lol you pick the one nm that blm destroys to give an example for blue? nooooooo no no no that doesn't make up for the injustice, the defense of it's bandwagon will be swift, and stroooong but in the pitter patter of every blues heart they know they don't deserve the power they have. self skillchaining mb'ing critters they are, .... nerf them all I say. but making blm buffer would be my prefered rout. that's my 2 cents anyway.

You want a technical reason as to why Blue mage is not overpowered on any high-level content? Fine.

Blue magic damage is calculated as follows floor((440(+30 from gear)*0.11)*2+3)+FSTR(Capped at 26)+(Assume Quad. Con WSC) so (floor (floor((120 x .32) + (110 x .32)) x 0.85)

Which means you get floor(106+26[CappedFSTR]+62[QuadWSC])*5 = 970 base dmg

Then you work out the Pdif of Blue magic attack against say Pils defense. So (470+8+(150/2)) (Let's say str is 150) then calculate that for Ratio which is =553/560 so 0.9875, minus the level correction of 0.55 so 0.4375 Blue magic attack ratio.

Then you use that to go to your final damage, or 970*0.4685 or 454 assuming all hits connected.

That seems like a decent chunk of damage, but it resets the amount of time to your next swing, chances are you're wearing significantly less haste gear, it takes you longer to attack, you lose tp which ultimately means you lose CDC damage, which would be more beneficial to your party. Over time you end up losing damage by using Blue magic spells.

There's quite possibly a lot of errors in there, I am bad at ffxi maths. The point is there though, BLU on high level targets is ineffectual, it becomes a low tiered DD that cannot compete with people equally skilled and geared. They also get dumped into the Mages party, which doesn't help.

This is also dependent on whether the bluemage's accuracy is capped, damage can increase and decrease based on their hit rate and whether all hits connected.

Blue is the best at fodder content. There's no real competitor to the amount of damage it can deal outside of Legion/Vw etc. That is it's flaw. It exceeds at one thing, and is rather ineffectual at the other.

Again, please excuse what I assume is poor attempts at ffxi maths.

BLM does great on Bot Rex, and well on some others if you're just there for dmg. Blu should mathematically never parse number 1.

[Theytak]

Also, wtf at the Sharpshot EES formula...
For players: EES Damage = (Normal Ranged Attack x 5.0)
For Pup: EES Damage = ((Normal Pet Ranged Attack x 4.0) + 6)
ie: at the 3 of the 4 main damage tiers for level 99 (410 skill (135 dmg), 428 skill (141 dmg), and 437 skill (144 dmg)) I got the 4x the damage sharpshot did with a normal attack, +6 additional damage. Makes absolutely no sense, but it was consistent...

[Balloon]

Also, wtf at the Sharpshot EES formula...
For players: EES Damage = (Normal Ranged Attack x 5.0)
For Pup: EES Damage = ((Normal Pet Ranged Attack x 4.0) + 6)
ie: at the 3 of the 4 main damage tiers for level 99 (410 skill (135 dmg), 428 skill (141 dmg), and 437 skill (144 dmg)) I got the 4x the damage sharpshot did with a normal attack, +6 additional damage. Makes absolutely no sense, but it was consistent...

There's probably no way for you to reliably test this, but, does it also have the increased Ranged accuracy?

[Nawesemo]

meh... idk I see some pretttttty big numbers out of my blu's I'm not saying ya'lls don't do it right but mine make mobs die quick when they darn well please. and by no means am I saying i don't appricate em.. their mb's make for pretty mb's but they can and do parse very well against any other job vs. anything that can take dmg. Maybe mine are the cream of the crop but they piss my e peen off something mighty. azure lore+ ws+ magic = dark/light+ kabooom!!! and then a 5 sec stun, curing magic, a haste that makes a rdm cry ss aoe lol that's alot for a mage that can dish out a good chunk of dd. it's a buff job. very buff. and i'm probably feeding into the ego's of the ones I know, but yeah... lol I"m in the Nerf blu camp and they know it.

[Theytak]

There's probably no way for you to reliably test this, but, does it also have the increased Ranged accuracy?

the number of EES I would have to pump out against the same target EVA is so ludicrous that it's not even worth testing. I've seen no misses, yet, but I'm shooting level -1 bunnies. Capped hit rate is guaranteed.

Also, because it works like sharpshot's regular ranged attack, pup EES has a significant dex mod, made even more potent by the fact that it's multiplied 4x.

[Balloon]

meh... idk I see some pretttttty big numbers out of my blu's I'm not saying ya'lls don't do it right but mine make mobs die quick when they darn well please. and by no means am I saying i don't appricate em.. their mb's make for pretty mb's but they can and do parse very well against any other job vs. anything that can take dmg. Maybe mine are the cream of the crop but they piss my e peen off something mighty. azure lore+ ws+ magic = dark/light+ kabooom!!! and then a 5 sec stun, curing magic, a haste that makes a rdm cry ss aoe lol that's alot for a mage that can dish out a good chunk of dd. it's a buff job. very buff. and i'm probably feeding into the ego's of the ones I know, but yeah... lol I"m in the Nerf blu camp and they know it.

BLU is very very poweful on targets below level 99, but it is balanced out by being largely ineffectual against targets exceeding level 99. This is why it is balanced.

Nerfing PUPs Eagle Eye shot is something special. I clicked a japanese button and the client crashed, and now I have an hour update to do. Joy.

[Nawesemo]

lol whatever floats your boat. you win, blu sucks :D not going to argue.

[Demon6324236]

lol whatever floats your boat. you win, blu sucks :D not going to argue.Not exactly what he meant:pjust saying they are somewhat balanced;)

[Metaking]

I think what he is more on about is blus water spells which mana to dmg ratio beats all but like drain (outside abysea) which i guess gals him some. thing is tho if you were to throw a blu and a blm and they could nuke strait without gaining hate the blm would destroy the blu as time went on because of the simple fact blm has better refresh and hmp gear available, also a blm can dump dmg way faster than blu even if its slightly less efficient, also blu can only effectively nuke with fire water thunder and darkness, and fire thunder and darkness only have 2 effective spells each... in the end, a blu out nukeing a blm i would look more at the blm in question.

[Demon6324236]

Looking through it, he basically said...
Mobs level>BLU, BLU sucks.
Mobs level<BLU, BLU rocks.
From what I can tell, level correction seems to screw BLU badly.

[Metaking]

actually its targets Def blu has no effective way to raise are physical spells attack which is is like in the 500 to 600 range after blu skill str and maybe a def down on the target

[Psxpert2011]

*The name and help text messages for each ability will be tentative when implemented to the test server. Also the effects and their values may be adjusted.

Job Effects

MNK: Grants a 100% counter-rate against regular attacks from enemies. Also, the amount of enmity gained by this will increase drastically.

PLD: Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.

RNG: The range modifier will become the optimal distance no matter the range to the target. Also, ammunition will not be consumed.
SAM: All damage caused by physical special abilities will be evaded. Additionally, weapon skill damage will increase as more special abilities are evaded.

I'm just pointing out jobs in which i took to 75~99 and/or working on as my next 99.

...FFxi DEVs, are you freak-en serious!?? Those aren't new 2-hours (not even good enough to out-perform the old ones). They look more like decent new abilities but nothing to turn the table and give high-level mobs a good spanking with.

Pld needs more emnity but I think Plds don't hit hard enough, Sam ofcourse needs to spam more SCs but Sams could miss and strike real slooow, Mnk could use less enmity and counter more even though Mnk has some ++subtle blow.

Finally Rng, sure there's an issue with hate too, acc, distance and ammo, the main issue is ammo. But i think Rng are aware of the hate and it could help if they had their own "formless strikes" to not pull danger to them. Maybe I'm wrong but I can think of better ideas like, play off the trait the job lacks(weakness) instead of the jobs strong points so it could perform the opposite of what we're all use to. That's different and interesting. (could be fun too)

[jake3614]

There's probably no way for you to reliably test this, but, does it also have the increased Ranged accuracy?

Actually, already been discussed in another thread, and it does factor out correct:


Eagle Eye shot is weak for a reason. Do this:
Sub blm, and take sharpshot out to west ronfaure. Make certain your puppet has > 101 str (102, 2 fire maneuvers is enough, do not use Cirque hands, because DEX influences sharpshot's regular ranged attack damage; this is sharpshot's fSTR cap at level 99), additionally don't wear cirque pants, and temporarily take out any ranged skill merits you have, so that you have 417 skill; use choke on a bunny, which ensures it has 1 vit, and then deploy for a ranged attack. If you get that right, it should give you 786 damage, every time. Next, repeat the process (with the same amount of skill, str, and dex) with Eagle Eye Shot. Theoretically, you should see 3930 damage every single time (if you stay consistent, and it's a straight 5x multiplier like regular EES). If you see over 3k, but less than 3930, it means that it's likely a 5x multiplier, but ignoring the regular attack's dex mod. If you see less than 3k, it means that they completely changed the formula for pup, and made it even weaker than EES already is.

Also worth noting, your numbers should, if you do everything correctly, be identical every time (ie: no +/- 1, they will be the exact same number), as well as being divisible by 3, and for EES, by both 3 and 5. If you get an EES result that does not cleanly divide by 3 or 5 (it has to cleanly divide by both, no decimals), then it means they really messed with sharpshot's EES numbers.

[jake3614]

I think i talk for alot of blms ... we just want to force a crit once in a while, (not every 2 hrs though) but a rediculous 15 min timer (meritable) and the ability to force a crit would make ALOT of us happy as to regaining our title of "Mage" Being the red headed step children to parents who love their blu isn't cool but once upon a time if it could die by magic, WE were the ones to be asked to aga it. not so much anymore ; ; I don't mean to hate on the overpowered ness that is blu mage, but f me gang... just admit it's broken and I'll be happy. (or give every mob that the mimic'd spell that was a job ability that takes mp to preform was learned, MP so we can aspir it... that'll make me happy too) but a single 15 min cooldown forcable crit. ... I loooooove being able to break 10k's and see spikes to 14, but when i watch a blue mage do what they do to 20 mobs, and put out more cumalitive dmg with magic than a blm can... somethings wrong. We could/can deal with sch's big heads and their spikes,... doing more dmg than us from time to time, but please restore us to our king poo Nuking place. (keep in mind i'm talking about a real blu mage not some gimpy burnt don't know how to gear for squat on any given spell... I'm talking about the ones that know what they're doing ....unless my blu's are that unique... (they're pretty bad ass i'll give them that :D) bottom line, when 6 blu's can do something faster more efficient than 6 of any other job ...... that job is broken. I'm sure I'm on an island here given alot of people seen the greatness that is blu and jumped on the wagon and may feel defensive about this, but... imo blu is broken. or their spell dmg formula is. (I am not certain but I believe charged whisker doesn't suffer from # of mobs it's hitting as much as our aga's ... and that's messed up. We the Black mages object!
Elemental Seal is more than a forced crit, which I know you know, but comparing a BLM to a BLU is almost like comparing a THF to a DNC..... Square peg/Circle hole syndrome. I'm 100% that 80% of these new 2 hour meritable JA's (which are on the same timer as the old 2 hour JA's {this grinds my gears beyond measure}) But this Isle of Awesome Epic shrank years ago for BLU. There's no competition with them in direct DD to MP cost per spell (magic based, not physical). Now, if BLU new 2 hour JA caused Unbridled learning spells cost/recast to drop also besides being able to "mana-font" them... then there's a whole new discussion.
The only thing BLU has on BLM, much less any mage, is the ratio of Curing to MP cost via a restorative spell. Outside this, only physical spells are BLU's best bet, and Magical ones are flashy and showy when you need them. Hoping the new 2 hour fixes this for our BLUE (har-d-har-har) friends.

[Plasticleg]

Saddest part isn't that the majority of these abilities should be standard JAs...

It's that they don't know that they should be standard JAs.

[Nawesemo]

elemental seal effects accuracy only. (save mythic use) +30 i think it was. NOT a crit. no +dmg. just adds to our chances to NOT get resisted. (but a choice between 30 acc and 30 mab /em drools) ... I overreacted. this blm 2 hr is ... meh.. I don't see me using it over manafont... ever, if i have my manawall ready to go but, it's not as bad as some other jobs.

And with as much respect as I can muster, I appoligize Main blu's for attacking your ubber cool job. (I'm still gonna insist ya'll know what I'm talking about though.... -.- )

[Theytak]

Just gonna add some stuff:
Harlequin head's mighty strikes does not influence sharpshot's ranged attacks in any way. This includes both regular ranged attacks, and its ranged ws (so in other words, no forced 4crit hit armor shatterers). It does, however, work on melee ws like expected (bone crusher went from ~500 to ~1200 with 50% crit damage, both ws done against the same mangey-tailed marvin, and had identical 11% TP returns; Thanks to Balloon for testing that one, and armor shatterer out).

Also, the random +6 damage that gets tacked on to EES is odd; I played with the other frames, since they can use EES atm, and stormwaker got the expected result (-6 /4 fit), but both valoredge and harlequin ended up being divisible by 4 without needing to subtract 6, but gave the expected results based on their stats aside from that.

[Raka]

At some point I had a little hope for these new..."2Hr" abilities, but when I saw:


these new 2-hour abilities will share the recast timers of the original 2-hour abilities, so players can choose which one to use based on the situation.

I pretty much gave up. Many if not all of the originals are superior to these still, given the fact that the new ones are still undergoing tweaks and such. But let's be a bit more realistic here, there is no reason to choose the second 2Hrs over the first at the current state you have them in. Course with acception to SMN, RNG, PUP?, and a couple others... Why give PLDs another version of Reprisal/Palisade instead of a way to completely nullify, say Magic damage? Some PLD have Aegis, some have Ochain, and some have neither.

Although some also have an itching to deal some damage etc. if the occasion calls for it, but really just making a point that there needs to be a good enough reason to want to choose the second 2Hr over the first. That or remove the shared timer penalty...but I'd prefer a more useful 2Hr in all honest.

[Camate]

Happy Monday and I hope that everyone had an enjoyable weekend!

There is still so much feedback coming in about the new 2-hour abilities and we are doing our best to pass all of it on to the Development Team! However, the team will actually be on summer vacation this week, so we expect responses to feedback to be delayed a bit. We are hoping to be able to give some dev. responses next week regarding the 2-hour abilities.

[FrankReynolds]

Happy Monday and I hope that everyone had an enjoyable weekend!

There is still so much feedback coming in about the new 2-hour abilities and we are doing our best to pass all of it on to the Development Team! However, the team will actually be on summer vacation this week, so we expect responses to feedback to be delayed a bit. We are hoping to be able to give some dev. responses next week regarding the 2-hour abilities.

WTF is summer vacation?
<------- Jealous, wants summer vacation too. :)

[Demon6324236]

Happy Monday and I hope that everyone had an enjoyable weekend!

There is still so much feedback coming in about the new 2-hour abilities and we are doing our best to pass all of it on to the Development Team! However, the team will actually be on summer vacation this week, so we expect responses to feedback to be delayed a bit. We are hoping to be able to give some dev. responses next week regarding the 2-hour abilities.

Camate thank you for letting us know about the delay. Please do your best to make them aware of just how the player base feels about these abilities upon their return. I think it has been made clear in this thread that many are not happy with the abilities, and they are seen as very lack luster for the time, especially compared to other abilities added to 2-hours as of recent years.

[Byrth]

A few things:
WAR - Lasts 45 seconds and doesn't work on WS damage. This has to be changed if you ever want it to be competitive with Mighty Strikes. I'm not sure I can think of a single situation where this would be superior to using Mighty Strikes. If a difficult monster (like Paramount Botulus) takes 50% damage from physical attacks, this would double the melee damage of the player (but not affect WS damage). He's also a high level enemy, so critical hits are valuable against it and approximately double the damage of the player (and also affect WS damage). These are just made up, but considering the proportion of WAR's damage that comes from WSs, the monster would have to have something like 90% resistance to damage before the current 2-hour is worth using over Mighty Strikes.

RDM - As mentioned in the notes, Gain spells do not work with it. Barfire actually does, so I'm not sure what that note was about (perhaps Barstatus spells?) More importantly, though, this 2-hour does nothing to help RDM in the long term. I could recommend suggestions for it that would improve the 2-hour, but really the RDM job just needs to be fixed and then you need to design a suitable second 2-hour.

DNC - I was initially excited about this 2-hour, but then I realized how it actually works. This either needs a much longer duration (~5 minutes) or to reduce Flourish recasts while the 2-hour is up, similar to how Trance affects Waltzes. Giving all the Flourishes a 6 second recast would be nice, but 4 seconds would be much better even.

The way it is now, you're looking at 2 Reverse Flourishes and one Climactic Flourish during its duration that you don't need to get FMs for. Ideal usage would be something like:
Climactic -> Evisceration -> No Foot Rise -> Reverse -> Rudra's (darkness) -> 2-hour -> Reverse -> Rudra's (double darkness) -> TP back up to 100 TP -> Climactic -> Rudra's -> Reverse -> Rudra's (darkness) -> 2-hour wears off.

You're basically using your 2-hour for two extra WSs and a skillchain, which dramatically reduces the usefulness of this 2-hour when you're doing things in a party. Also, the value of this 2-hour is much less for people that don't have a Twashtar.

Kind of a side note because I've almost abandoned the category entirely, but Flourishes I isn't very useful with this. Violent (oops, missed) -> 2-hour -> Violent takes too long and the spell or monster WS has already gotten off and killed you. JA delay strikes again.

[Sapphire]

WTF is summer vacation?
<------- Jealous, wants summer vacation too. :)

Heh, you know that Summerfest event going on in game right now? It's basically timed to Japanese Obon time. This is a TERRIBLE time of year to travel there, everyone is going home to see family. (Note I too, would like a week off in August, oh and a Golden Week in the spring, I would be a-ok with that as well!)

[Ophannus]

WAR's 2hr is alot like Spirit Surge in that it's a shorter duration version of another job's ability.

Warrior's New 2hr has the same effect as Formless Strikes, except it's a 2 hour recast/45second duration vs 5min recast/3 minute duration.
Similar to how
Spirit Surge's 25% Haste boost is a 2hr recast/60 second duration compared to Last Resort+Desperate Blows which is a 5min recast/3min duration.
DRG's new 2hr needs to reset Call Wyvern to 0 because even though the wyvern doesnt die directly anymore from large attacks, the DRG still does, which causes us to lose the pet when we die. Many times a DRG will run into a fight and die from some instant death move or crazy strong AoE attack or spell and then no wyvern for 20minutes. So despite the increase to wyvern durability and healing options with spirit link, none of that prevents the wyvern's master from dying easily. No other job in the entire game faces a penalty that harsh even after weakness wears off where they lose a huge aspect of their job for such a long time. Other jobs can die amidst a difficult battlefield like Legion and be raised up and within 5 minutes are back to full fighting potential. If a DRG had his wyvern called and dies in the middle of a legion fight and is raised, he's still severely hampered by the fact that he has to wait another 15-20minutes for his wyvern. Letting us restore Call Wyvern's recast by using the new 2hr with the wyvern out would help for these situations.

[Mefuki]

Ah, excellent, there's still time to recommend things to the devs then. Most BLU are unsatisfied with our new two hour. May I suggest any of these.

By Dinah of Phoenix:


BLU
Duration: 00:01:00
Description: Physical spells gain TP for the user. Magical spells drain HP depending on damage dealt. Breath attacks do quadruple damage and instantly cast.

An extra note by Prothescar was to make breath spells under it's effects ignore a certain percentage of enemy resistance.

Speaking of him, by Prothescar of Valefor:

*I modified your suggestion posted on FFXIAH to something that seemed a little more balanced. If you're reading this and want me to change it back just let me know. I don't want to misrepresent you.*


BLU
Duration: 00:00:30
Description: Blue Magic ignores level correction penalties, set recast times to 0, and costs half MP.

And lastly one suggested by myself:


How about a 2 hour version of Unbridled Learning for BLU? Say maybe 3-5 spells available, all from endgame bosses. They'd have to be good so, first ones I can think of are Mighty Guard from Shinryu, Diffractive Break from Provenance Watcher, Beleaguerment from Shah. Maybe Laser Shower or Target Analysis from Omega/Arch-Omega, Citadel Buster from Ultima/Arch-Ultima, or Grace of Hera from Alicorn.

Any of these, I think, most would be very pleased with. Please consider them.

[Theytak]

WAR's 2hr is alot like Spirit Surge in that it's a shorter duration version of another job's ability.

Warrior's New 2hr has the same effect as Formless Strikes, except it's a 2 hour recast/45second duration vs 5min recast/3 minute duration.
Similar to how
Spirit Surge's 25% Haste boost is a 2hr recast/60 second duration compared to Last Resort+Desperate Blows which is a 5min recast/3min duration.

Formless Strikes has a 10 minute recast, just sayin. But also, It's not really accurate to compare spirit surge to desperate blows, given that spirit surge gives a sizable chunk of str, all of your wyvern's TP, an HP boost, and augments all your jumps while resetting their timers. LR+DB is just berserk with haste. There's too much difference between Spirit Surge and LR+DB to really call them clones of each other (but LR, merited, is an obvious clone of Berserk, until DB)

That said, it's not just war who got a "new 2hour ability" that's a near carbon-copy of another job ability. That's already been pointed out several times;
- pld got palisade/reprisal II
- nin got issekigan II with dash of NTE
- whm got an AoE Fealty
- thf got Trick Attack II
- drg got spirit link II
- drk got a reversioned blood weapon (big TP drain instead of big HP drain)
- smn basically got a sexy combination of tabula rasa and chain spell
- blu got a suckier retake on tabula rasa
- dnc got a suckier retake on trance
- pup got 4 weakened (EES uses a 4x multiplier instead of 5x, and can't crit; Manafont and Chainspell are hindered by the global recast that players don't have, as well as the automaton casting AI, and mighty strikes was given to a ghetto mage frame) versions other jobs old 2hours, and 2 equal (Invincible is 30 sec PDT-100%, Benediction is benediction),


DRG's new 2hr needs to reset Call Wyvern to 0 because even though the wyvern doesnt die directly anymore from large attacks, the DRG still does, which causes us to lose the pet when we die. Many times a DRG will run into a fight and die from some instant death move or crazy strong AoE attack or spell and then no wyvern for 20minutes. So despite the increase to wyvern durability and healing options with spirit link, none of that prevents the wyvern's master from dying easily. No other job in the entire game faces a penalty that harsh even after weakness wears off where they lose a huge aspect of their job for such a long time. Other jobs can die amidst a difficult battlefield like Legion and be raised up and within 5 minutes are back to full fighting potential. If a DRG had his wyvern called and dies in the middle of a legion fight and is raised, he's still severely hampered by the fact that he has to wait another 15-20minutes for his wyvern. Letting us restore Call Wyvern's recast by using the new 2hr with the wyvern out would help for these situations. I'm sorry, but how much does the wyvern add to your over all damage? 10%? Considering that pup's automaton constitutes about 40% of its damage, and bst's pet constitutes even more, and they're both just as susceptible to that problem, I think you can be a little less melodramatic. Sure, automatons and jug pets can be called back faster than 20 minutes, but that costs the bst a good deal of money, and the pup a good deal of time (Deus revives the pet at ~35% HP, one AoE and it's dead again for another minute, and repair's HP restore comes mostly from it's REGEN effect, or liberal use of oil+3, the cost of which adds up fast). I'm not saying losing your wyvern to this isn't a big deal, but it's not really fair to say "No other job suffers from that" when your job is one of the top 5 DD jobs in the game, wyvern or no wyvern.

[Mettle]

Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will only affect master and pet)
Benediction that only applies to the master and the pet is not benediction, but it's the only one that'll get any real use. Soulsoother is our pet that can affect party members, so why would it's 2 hour, and the only useful ability in this bunch, not do that?


Actually, it says Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will apply to the party members and automaton itself)

[Volarione]

Idc what anyone says about the pup new two hour, having him be able to use benidiction rocks. I guess you just cant please some people.

[Cljader1]

I agree, pup get 5 new 2hrs, I think that pretty good.

[Karbuncle]

Ah, excellent, there's still time to recommend things to the devs then. Most BLU are unsatisfied with our new two hour. May I suggest any of these.

By Dinah of Phoenix:



An extra note by Prothescar was to make breath spells under it's effects ignore a certain percentage of enemy resistance.
Speaking of him, by Prothescar of Valefor:
And lastly one suggested by myself:
Any of these, I think, most would be very pleased with. Please consider them.

While I'm all for unreasonably overpowered effects, The duration being 1 minute is unimaginably unreasonable. Almost every single 2hour so far is 30sec, baring some few of the crazy requests... You're essentially asking for Half Chainspell, Half Manafont, Full Ignoring of Defense, and Level Correction removed?

I think THF's new 2hour should Ignore Defense, Have 100% Triple Attack proc, and all Hits are Sneak Attack tier Criticals that have no direction restrictions. This Effect Works on Weaponskills as well.

That is the level of insanity of that request. However, 2hour Ignoring Level Correction would be reasonable, and offer a strong boost to BLU Spells. Could shoot the duration to 30 seconds and throw in "Sets Recast timers to 0" and it seems less like asking for an All-In-one-Zerg Kit.

Messing around aside, Good contribution :3

[Neisan_Quetz]

Thf's new 2 hour should do that, so people can wow once every 2 hours.

[FrankReynolds]

Thf's new 2 hour should do that, so people can wow once every 2 hours.

That would probably still only do what? about 10k damage? ; ;

[Neisan_Quetz]

Would be a ton better than their current 2 hours though.

[FrankReynolds]

(True Strike)