New 2-hour Abilities

[Xilk]

This will be very interesting to see.

I imagine the Special ability (gonna have to stop calling at a 2hr ability) recast reduction meritting is going to be similiar to the current trade-offs for the 357 skill WS's. I think this is a really great idea. Alot of players have many jobs leveled, and this will make it interesting to see how to balance and prioritize between different Special JA's.

The JA's that are short and go for burst damage will probably be prioritized by most players.

1 hour recast IS really good for any current event. 30 min is actually sufficient for most.

With a shorter duration, It think they could get away sharing the recast timer better between the 2 abilities, however it would still be difficult. The reason has been reiterated many times. Its much more difficult to balance 2 different abilities to each other. like the comments from numerous players about embrava. The new Sp ability doesn't look bad, but when trading it for Embrava, you'll never win. So, even though it might be more possible to keep the recast combined, its safer not to.

The only question I would have after that is, if the recast is shared for other jobs? Will it reset Special abilities just by changing jobs unlike the current situation, OR will there be 2 categories for the special abilities to determine which is still waiting on the recast from one job to another.

The last 2 boxes are ofcourse the most exciting. Alot of ideas have been shared and it will be interesting to see if any survive the rigor which Developers need to apply.
The jobs have changed so much since the initial Special abilities have been designed, that it will be very interesting to see how they might be adjusted.

As a BST main, I imagine a defensive special ability would be well received.. if the 'offensive' ability is adjusted as well.

Frankly, this announcement is a HUGE, "WE are listening seriously to our playerbase" answer and it certainly makes a subscriber feel good.

[Helel]

Can nerf the haste effect of embrava, just not the regain please. I like to pew things on ranger still.

[Vivivivi]

Maybe Geomancer and Rune Fencer will alleviate the need for PD and Embrava for Nyzul or ADL? :3

[Septimus]

There is no reason that if the recast for the new SP abilities has to be the same as the current two-hour effects. The new SPs could be 30 minutes while keeping two-hours the same recast and potency.

While it would be nice to have content that doesn't rely on Embrava and Perfect Defense to win, I cannot imagine that content being produced given the current fetish of giving mobs weaponskills that rain death in a 500 yalm radius.

[Raksha]

Disagree completely. Both Embrava and Perfect Defence is SEVERELY OP on 30 minutes, especially compared to EVERY other 2-hour in the game. Just because a way exists to abuse 2-hour reset doesn't change that.

A way?

COR 2hr
MMM
Resheph
besieged
ISL chests
Limbus Chests


Hell, 2 hour isn't even really a limiting factor for Embrava either, if you have a spot to lock your 2hr on, you could keep a single DD party Embrava'd indefinately without 2hr reset.

There is absolutely no wasy 30m embravas is more overpowered than 2hr embravas

[Ophannus]

Our DDs get ADL from 100% to 50% in less than 30 seconds without WSing at all and we usually turn for 10-15second till he splits. I'm sure if we wanted to, we could CS Stun ADL for 75 seconds with a RDM/BLM aand DDs would kill him in 30-45 seconds(since we get him to 50% without WSing at all in 30 seconds, I'm sure with WS spamming we could take him out before he splits)

[Byrth]

The main strategic benefit behind 30 minute Astral Flows would be only having to bring along ~3 Summoners for your ADL runs regardless of how many pops you have.

I don't think you can take ADL out before his splits, Ophannus. I think that's kind of hard-coded into his AI. It's going to happen and doesn't take him any time, so Chainspell Stun doesn't save you from it. It's similar to AV putting bracers on.

[Secondplanet]

Here's an idea SE, why don't you take this concept of 2hr avatars and change them to normal avatars??? then we won't mind you nerfing PD so much, make it alexander's BP:ward 2hr(loosely) ability, and give him a 2hr offensive one? That way we summoners get 2 actual avatars and you can nerf it without as much complaining.

[Insaniac]

Isn't that the point of this change? Mix things up so you don't see shouts looking for SMN's and SCH's anymore.No I don't think that's the point of this change and these JAs don't just make the events mentioned easier. They are what make them possible so you would go from seeing shouts for schs and smns to seeing no shouts at all.


Disagree completely. Both Embrava and Perfect Defence is SEVERELY OP on 30 minutes, especially compared to EVERY other 2-hour in the game. Just because a way exists to abuse 2-hour reset doesn't change that. Your argument is completely illogical. Shortening the timer doesn't affect the power of the abilities at all. If they increased duration or effect it would make them stronger. All a 30 minute timer would mean is no resets required after Nyzul and Legion runs and resets as pointed out by Raksha are easy and plentiful.


Our DDs get ADL from 100% to 50% in less than 30 seconds without WSing at all and we usually turn for 10-15second till he splits. I'm sure if we wanted to, we could CS Stun ADL for 75 seconds with a RDM/BLM aand DDs would kill him in 30-45 seconds(since we get him to 50% without WSing at all in 30 seconds, I'm sure with WS spamming we could take him out before he splits) ADL will always split he will split while stunned too. There's no getting around it or the linked TP moves his clones do right after splitting because he is still immune to all damage and stun effects.

[Tamarsamar]

If we can merit our current 2-hour Abilities to 30 min. or so, then the Two-hour recast time Evoliths might actually become somewhat useful, particularly if they can be used in conjunction with the Two-hour Enhancing Relic +2 armor.

All in all, another thing to macro.

Still, amazing news. If this was at the behest of Mr. Matsui, he's shown that he knows when to hold them and when to fold them, and there wasn't a much worse hand to fold than the grand majority of these new Two-hours. The inevitable delay in implementation will be well worth the wait, I feel.

[Insaniac]

Still, amazing news. If this was at the behest of Mr. Matsui, he's shown that he knows when to hold them and when to fold them, and there wasn't a much worse hand to fold than the grand majority of these new Two-hours. The inevitable delay in implementation will be well worth the wait, I feel.


Agreed. My false hope meter is back to full. 15/20 of them seem more like 5 minute JAs than 2 hours so I will gladly wait a few extra weeks.

[Theytak]

1. New SP ability and existing SP ability recast timer separation
As we previously explained, the new SP abilities we designed based on the idea that the recast timer would be shared with the existing SP abilities and players would use them accordingly. While the effects and usages have been compared to the existing SP abilities and consideration has been given so that they are balanced, we will be completely separating the two and changing the concept so that each ability can be used separately.

We will be making them so they are complete abilities on their own and do not need to be constrained to using one or the other.

Thank you. This is wonderful news. The one thing I'm curious about, though, is that the rest of your post leaves it somewhat unclear; while their timers will be separated, is it safe to assume the effects themselves won't be able to be used simultaneously? By this I mean, for example, a warrior activating both mighty strikes and the new ability and having both effects active at the same time. I would assume each would either overwrite, or preferably, block the use of the other until the duration of the first is complete, or perhaps you intend to allow this, which case, I have no real problem with it. Even if you're undecided on this, it would be nice to know which option you're leaning towards.


2. Recast time reduction
Originally the idea for SP abilities was to have players use them one time for specific content or battle situations and to use it wisely. When considering the current battle tempo and the average time for content these days, we feel that it would be beneficial to make the recast 1 hour with the ability to reduce it a minimum of 30 minutes via merit points. With this, the idea of “2-hour abilities” will changed when we explore the effects.

This is also wonderful news, but another matter of clarity, are you referring to the recast timer for both existing and new 2hours, or only the new ones? The clarity here also extends to the merits (ie: reducing both new and old to 1 hour, but only allowing the new abilities to be reduced to 30 minutes)


3. New SP ability effects revamp
Based on the changes stated above, we will be looking into the effects for the new SP abilities once again.

This does not mean only time related adjustments will be made. If deemed necessary we will be completely revamping the effect from the ground up.
Please, please, please, do not reduce the effects of any ability unless it is absolutely necessary. The majority of the existing 2hours would would not warrant a reduction in strength even with a 30 minute recast time, or still warrant a significant increase in strength. Many of the current 2hours have had their usefulness greatly reduced due to the level cap increase (ex: Familiar, Benediction), or were simply not strong enough (ex: Overdrive) or inherently flawed (ex: Eagle Eye Shot... Why in the world should a 1-time-use 2 Hour recast ability miss?) to begin with. At most, if you have to reduce any of the abilities, I think the only acceptable targets would be the ones with very long durations; Soul Voice, Astral Flow, Familiar, and Tabula Rasa, and the only acceptable change would be a small reduction in duration. No one would be happy about this change, but if done reasonably, I think most of us would prefer this over any real changes to the effects of the stronger 2hours. PLEASE do not go in with the mindset that "we'll need to weaken them if we reduce the timer" go in thinking "Let's reduce the timer without reducing the effects at all initially, and if it turns out that this is too strong, then we can look at reducing the effects."


4. Existing SP ability effects revamp
We will be looking into revamping existing SP ability effects based on the two points below.

- Adjustments to effects to coincide with recast shortening
- Balance adjustments to coincide with the new SP ability effects revamp

Even with the existing SP abilities there is a division between those that have good uses and those that do not depending on the job. Ultimately our aim is to make it so that by putting together the effects of the two SP abilities every job can have a boon. With that said, we will be revamping the existing SP abilities so that balance is not thrown off when incorporating usage of the new SP abilities.

As a general direction we will be raising all of the abilities so that they become useful. However, we believe that we will have no choice but add the lowering of effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava to our scope of adjustments.


I'm hesitantly optimistic, based on the fact that this post exists for me to respond to at all. As for Perfect Defense and Embrava, please consider something important about those abilities; Perfect Defense is the only bloodpact that makes Astral Flow worthwhile right now, and Embrava is the only thing that gets sch's invited to anything in the first place. You can't weaken these two abilities without strengthening the rest of their respective abilities. If you weaken PD, the other astral flow abilities will need to see their potency greatly increased, and smn would probably need a bit more love. If you weaken embrava, not so much tabula rasa, but the sch job as a whole will need some serious gains to continue being invited by other players. In fact, in my own opinion, bettering the entire smn and sch jobs at the cost of reducing the potency of Perfect Defense and Embrava seems like the ideal result.


With all of these changes, the previously planned implementation date for the new SP abilities as shown on the roadmap will be significantly pushed back. I apologize deeply for making you all wait, but we took a lot of time to decide the above so that we could deliver something that everyone enjoys and matches the current game.

We are currently working on preparing a revised roadmap to be released. We expect this to take a little bit of time, but please hang in there.
Honestly, I'm happy that it's been delayed. I was seriously worried that the new 2hours would get rushed and added to the live server after being barely tweaked and never touched again.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

No I don't think that's the point of this change and these JAs don't just make the events mentioned easier. They are what make them possible so you would go from seeing shouts for schs and smns to seeing no shouts at all.

Your argument is completely illogical. Shortening the timer doesn't affect the power of the abilities at all. If they increased duration or effect it would make them stronger. All a 30 minute timer would mean is no resets required after Nyzul and Legion runs and resets as pointed out by Raksha are easy and plentiful.

ADL will always split he will split while stunned too. There's no getting around it or the linked TP moves his clones do right after splitting because he is still immune to all damage and stun effects.

Unless they removed them, or nerfed them to like 1 Regain, 5% Haste and 10 Regen that isn't going to happen.

They were overpowered before, reducing the timer to 30 minutes though will just show how over-powered they are.

COR 2hr - Random, not worth relying on.
MMM - Requires everyone to have said runes etc.... Not likely.
Resheph - Fine!
besieged - Random as hell when it happens.
ISL chests - Unless you have a party in Abyssea, I sincerely doubt people will go build up lights and far them after EACH nyzul isle/event.
Limbus Chests - Yeah, not happening.

So in all you have MMM, COR and Reseph as probabilities with only two being a guarantee.

[Insaniac]

You're still being illogical. The only 30min+ event that exists currently and doesn't have either constant 2hr resets or a ??? to lock your 2 hour on is dynamis currency farming and I will admit a dynamis with ~50 minutes of embrava would be nice and yield more currency but it's far from "SEVERELY BROKEN!!". I would be more worried about beastmasters with full time familiar in dynamis though =P. All other events would be unaffected.

[Kincard]

MMM - Requires everyone to have said runes etc.... Not likely.

You have no idea how MMM works, do you?

[Selindrile]

Unless they removed them, or nerfed them to like 1 Regain, 5% Haste and 10 Regen that isn't going to happen.

They were overpowered before, reducing the timer to 30 minutes though will just show how over-powered they are.

COR 2hr - Random, not worth relying on.
MMM - Requires everyone to have said runes etc.... Not likely.
Resheph - Fine!
besieged - Random as hell when it happens.
ISL chests - Unless you have a party in Abyssea, I sincerely doubt people will go build up lights and far them after EACH nyzul isle/event.
Limbus Chests - Yeah, not happening.

So in all you have MMM, COR and Reseph as probabilities with only two being a guarantee.

Cor 2hr - That's why you see shouts offering a reward, you do that until you find someone who sets your parties 2hr.
MMM - It requires 1 person to have said runes, also the party can copy that tabula as many times as they want, and there's pretty much always already one up to copy at Duplidox anyway.
Resheph/Awahondo - 1 Pop, no waiting, that's what we always do before Provenance Watcher.
ISL Chests - You just go ask a party that's already got lights (pay them) for an isl chest, they're usually pretty happy, besides, not like it takes long to build azure, just go to anywhere where there's 100% x 16 azure mobs.
Limbus Chests - Point is, SCH/Smn already get multi 2hrs there, though this old content is so easy to lowman now nobody cares about balancing it, it's cake without any 2hrs.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Cor 2hr - That's why you see shouts offering a reward, you do that until you find someone who sets your parties 2hr.
MMM - It requires 1 person to have said runes, also the party can copy that tabula as many times as they want, and there's pretty much always already one up to copy at Duplidox anyway.
Resheph/Awahondo - 1 Pop, no waiting, that's what we always do before Provenance Watcher.
ISL Chests - You just go ask a party that's already got lights (pay them) for an isl chest, they're usually pretty happy, besides, not like it takes long to build azure, just go to anywhere where there's 100% x 16 azure mobs.
Limbus Chests - Point is, SCH/Smn already get multi 2hrs there, though this old content is so easy to lowman now nobody cares about balancing it, it's cake without any 2hrs.

MMM If only, Phoenix never has any. Though I'll be honest, forgot you could copy them.

I agreed with Reseph ... as for others, meh!

Like I said, EMBRAVA was OVER-POWERED before. Regardless the means, I'm just glad it's being nerfed, same with PD, though to a lesser level.

People don't want it nerfed the same reason they hated moving away from Abyssea.

[MarkovChain]

That's not entirely true. I've seen it killed with EA/Scherzo but it took an entire alliance and it wasn't pretty.

No it's impossible w/e you invent. It can hit the I kill you button anytime.

For instance dynamis rupture : very large aoe kcnock back high damage, instant casting aga3 and 4 and all aoe debuff( sleepga, silencga, breakga) which he spams. Oblivion smash puts your ally at half HP, and it's likely to chain it with an aga spell, so if it does it you are likely dead, if not, you have silence,bind, paralyze on. When he split, he does rupture or oblivion which kills everyone regardless.

I've seen ADL instant wipe us even with PD on. When it quadruple splits (<20% hp), it does a synch dynamis implosionx4, each doing 600 dmg while PD is up, his aga 4 1k with shellraV etc.

[Raksha]

No it's impossible w/e you invent.

wanna bet 5 marrows?

[Monchat]

probably doable with a full party of SMNs doing a stunlock rotation with shock squall, but risky as a single dynamis implosion will end the fight.

[Mayoyama]

From the way I read it.. they'd only be changing the NEW "2hrs" to 30min-1hr... not the existing ones, but maybe thats just how I interpreted it.

EDIT: NVM i missed th last spoiler tab ; ;

[Insaniac]

No it's impossible w/e you invent. It can hit the I kill you button anytime.

For instance dynamis rupture : very large aoe kcnock back high damage, instant casting aga3 and 4 and all aoe debuff( sleepga, silencga, breakga) which he spams. Oblivion smash puts your ally at half HP, and it's likely to chain it with an aga spell, so if it does it you are likely dead, if not, you have silence,bind, paralyze on. When he split, he does rupture or oblivion which kills everyone regardless.

I've seen ADL instant wipe us even with PD on. When it quadruple splits (<20% hp), it does a synch dynamis implosionx4, each doing 600 dmg while PD is up, his aga 4 1k with shellraV etc.
Not inventing anything. I've seen it. It would never be anywhere near as reliable as a PD strat but it can be done.

[Mikumaru]

Dear Dev team and Matsui-san ,

As a veteran player who started at the PS2 release over 8 years ago , i have seen many changes made to the game i love so dearly . Some have been very welcome , others maybe not so much . Up until the release of the Abyssea Battle Add-on Trilogy , The 2 hour ability not only defined the job class it was for , but was the Last Resort or hidden Ace-up-the-sleeve that would or could turn the tide of battle . These Abilities are supposed to be over powered , hence the exceptionally long cool down . In the Official Strategy Guides this point was firmly stated and as the game progressed from Rise of the Zilart to Chains of Promithia thru the Treasures of Aht Urghan , crucial use of these extreme abilities was the difference between success and failure . Chainspell Stunning Suzaku's Chainspell , or Countering Sieryu's Hundred Fists with Invincible are prime examples of how the game used to require sacrifice and strategy to prevail .
Reading each new "update" about how the Dev team is seeking "balance" , especially lately more than ever , seems more like a new Absolute Virtue is being sought . If you feel you must weaken a job's most powerful ability then you must in turn weaken the foes they are used against . Balance . Perhaps tho , as a suggestion , instead of looking for the new impossible to kill monster or Kill the entire alliance Ability the Dev team could take some different ques from the FFXI of old and include content that requires actual team work and strategy and doesnt rely on "Staggering" , Temporary items , Atma/Atmacite , or certain 2 hour abilities to defeat it . It happened in the past , no reason it cant happen now . Jailer of Love , Kirin , Proto-Omega , Proto-Ultima , the list goes on . These monsters yielded some of the most sought after items and they were hard won with team work and strategy .
Keep 2 hours Over Powered , while preserving the soul of FFXI . Keep up the great work on a wonderful game .

<3 Mikumaru

[ManaKing]

I'm ok with people having to try again. PD is a crutch, Embrava.....i guess. Not like Zergs didnt happen before it.

[Gakaroth]

How about this as an alternative... LEAVE THE OLD 2HOURS ALONE, DON'T TOUCH THEM!
and instead, just introduce these new special abilities with thier reduced timer, seperate as you seem to be doing anyway.

[Cabalabob]

Outside of a few events that PD and embrava are essential for they are completely useless abilities that no one uses, nerfing them is basically saying "this has a use in the game, let's change that". Leave them as is. if anything Odin and Alex should be taken off astral flow and have something else limiting their use. Alexander is the only reason astral flow gets used anymore, rendering every other aspect of astral flow useless. even If people wanted to use the other aspects of astral flow the mindset of "I might need perfect defense later so I best not use astral flow now" stops them. Embrava is a little better on this front seeing as it can be used in conjunction with the other effects of tabula rasa but still has the same mindset limiting the 2hrs other uses.

[Kroma]

Has anyone suggested that instead of nerfing or redefining the 2-hour ability in the game, to make these new 2-hours available with the active support job? For instance, a WHM/BLM would have access to both Benediction and the new BLM 2-hour that could provide a supercharged Curaga V back-up with little chance of the WHM getting wiped out. Imagine a SCH/WHM or RDM/WHM that could effectively cast Dispell-ga. Or, in the case of a RDM/NIN, the ability to use Utsusemi when tools are low and still have Chainspell at the ready? I think this is something that could open a whole new realm of customization/strategy and something the dev team should consider. Already I could see some overpowered combos, let's say RNG/THF or the ever-powerful RDM/NIN for instance, but these things could still be adjusted.


Any thoughts?

Sorry if this has been suggested, 53 pages is a lot to take in >.<

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Outside of a few events that PD and embrava are essential for they are completely useless abilities that no one uses, nerfing them is basically saying "this has a use in the game, let's change that". Leave them as is. if anything Odin and Alex should be taken off astral flow and have something else limiting their use. Alexander is the only reason astral flow gets used anymore, rendering every other aspect of astral flow useless. even If people wanted to use the other aspects of astral flow the mindset of "I might need perfect defense later so I best not use astral flow now" stops them. Embrava is a little better on this front seeing as it can be used in conjunction with the other effects of tabula rasa but still has the same mindset limiting the 2hrs other uses.

PD Maybe, Embrava is not.

[Mittenz]

A nerf to PD and Embrava while not completely unexpected does mean that either they will need to retool certain events or expect them to go the way of pankration (Legion, ADL, NNI).

As for me, SCH being the only useful 99 I have for doing most events and them nerfing the main use for them in an event means I get to spend a lot of my free time playing a different game I guess until they either change it to make it useful (which will probably be as high on their priority list as fixing rdm) or make jobs like PUP and DNC more viable (probably never).

[Modoru]

Has anyone suggested that instead of nerfing or redefining the 2-hour ability in the game, to make these new 2-hours available with the active support job? For instance, a WHM/BLM would have access to both Benediction and the new BLM 2-hour that could provide a supercharged Curaga V back-up with little chance of the WHM getting wiped out. Imagine a SCH/WHM or RDM/WHM that could effectively cast Dispell-ga. Or, in the case of a RDM/NIN, the ability to use Utsusemi when tools are low and still have Chainspell at the ready? I think this is something that could open a whole new realm of customization/strategy and something the dev team should consider. Already I could see some overpowered combos, let's say RNG/THF or the ever-powerful RDM/NIN for instance, but these things could still be adjusted.


Any thoughts?

Sorry if this has been suggested, 53 pages is a lot to take in >.<

BLM/RDM

Manafont Chainspell.

NOPE.

[Minikom]

OK SE Nerfing PD and Embrava, honestly i think they just looking a good excuse to do thia and player already give it now
complaining about the recast time on new 2 hours being shared.....
if se do this please nerf legion .... an event where you need PD and embrava to max and where you can still fail if ppl do mistakes.

i dont see really useful reducing the recast timer for SP abilities, when ppl use thier 2 hours? abyssea ? einherjar? limbus? campaing battle? dynamis? basicaly the most of events are too short and dont need to reuse SP abilities and iff you need it like legion take 1-2 cors to wild card ppl

i'd like to know ppl thought about PD and embrava Nefr, dont let SE nerf those 2 abilities, sch and smn are useful now.... they were the most unwanted jobs

[Demon6324236]

Hello!

I have some news from Producer Akihiko Matsui, which I believe you will all be quite happy about! :)You know, when I posted this yesterday...

I think changing this as players wish would go a long way in showing that the new man in charge, is truly listening to players feedback, and taking it into consideration.I really didn't expect much, or anything, for at least a few days or a week. I admit I am amazed at what I woke up to today. Sadly still no word on the BST problem, however I can easily look past that for now to see everything else.
As we previously explained, the new SP abilities we designed based on the idea that the recast timer would be shared with the existing SP abilities and players would use them accordingly. While the effects and usages have been compared to the existing SP abilities and consideration has been given so that they are balanced, we will be completely separating the two and changing the concept so that each ability can be used separately.

We will be making them so they are complete abilities on their own and do not need to be constrained to using one or the other.It is good this is being done, great even. It means you are giving us 2 abilities we will use rather than 1 we will use and one which will clutter our list. I am so very happy that this is being done because it means we will not be locked to 1 ability and that we can use both as we wish.


Originally the idea for SP abilities was to have players use them one time for specific content or battle situations and to use it wisely. When considering the current battle tempo and the average time for content these days, we feel that it would be beneficial to make the recast 1 hour with the ability to reduce it a minimum of 30 minutes via merit points. With this, the idea of “2-hour abilities” will changed when we explore the effects. Ok, this is great and bad news at the same time. Great that you are making them faster to use, and realize the game has become much faster than before, making 2 hours an annoyingly long wait time. The terrible part is, if you nerf things to much. I think that while you should change the timers, you should not need to change the effects. These abilities are meant to be powerful but limited, but if they are adjusted to be to weak, then they will become just another ability. In my opinion, 1 hour is still a long enough time for these to stay as powerful as they are now, or some to become more powerful, so that they are still special and strong, but maintain a certain rarity on how they are used, because of the long wait.


Based on the changes stated above, we will be looking into the effects for the new SP abilities once again.

This does not mean only time related adjustments will be made. If deemed necessary we will be completely revamping the effect from the ground up.This, worries me a little. Many of these new ones are already questionable in use, even shortening the recast does not make up for it entirely. But with previous changes it seems as if you might make the new ones shorter, or even weaker. If this is the case, it will make them worse and solve little, in fact, may even make things worse. So I ask of you, please do not make this great reduction to recast, a total reduction of their use, and there by make them to weak, or worthless.


We will be looking into revamping existing SP ability effects based on the two points below.
•Adjustments to effects to coincide with recast shortening
•Balance adjustments to coincide with the new SP ability effects revamp
Even with the existing SP abilities there is a division between those that have good uses and those that do not depending on the job. Ultimately our aim is to make it so that by putting together the effects of the two SP abilities every job can have a boon. With that said, we will be revamping the existing SP abilities so that balance is not thrown off when incorporating usage of the new SP abilities.

As a general direction we will be raising all of the abilities so that they become useful. However, we believe that we will have no choice but add the lowering of effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava to our scope of adjustments.The same applies here. Please do not ruin these abilities by making them weaker, its still a long recast, they should still be just as powerful, if not more so for the weaker ones.

I am happy we were given some good news, just please don't let it go bad, and also please don't forget about BST.

[Sp1cyryan]

I do not trust for this to be done well at all honestly. Please tread lightly and don't pull one of those "typical SE" moves.

[Kroma]

BLM/RDM

Manafont Chainspell.

NOPE.

I think you misunderstood. The sub job would provide one of the new 2-hour abilities, not the original. So for instance, in your BLM/RDM example, the 2 abilities available would be Mana Font and the yet-to-be-named ability for RDM which would "grant an increase to the effect of enhancing magic." Realistically, why would you sub RDM? With it the other way around, you could have Chainspell and another yet-to-be-named ability for BLM which would "grant a drastic decrease in enmity generated by magic attacks." The first example with RDM sub would be so-so at best. But, Chainspell without generating enmity would be pretty awesome.

Think about it.

[Bloodrain]

Up until the release of the Abyssea Battle Add-on Trilogy , The 2 hour ability not only defined the job class it was for , but was the Last Resort or hidden Ace-up-the-sleeve that would or could turn the tide of battle . These Abilities are supposed to be over powered , hence the exceptionally long cool down . In the Official Strategy Guides this point was firmly stated and as the game progressed from Rise of the Zilart to Chains of Promithia thru the Treasures of Aht Urghan , crucial use of these extreme abilities was the difference between success and failure .

This. 1000 times THIS.

[Demon6324236]

I think you misunderstood. The sub job would provide one of the new 2-hour abilities, not the original. So for instance, in your BLM/RDM example, the 2 abilities available would be Mana Font and the yet-to-be-named ability for RDM which would "grant an increase to the effect of enhancing magic." Realistically, why would you sub RDM? With it the other way around, you could have Chainspell and another yet-to-be-named ability for BLM which would "grant a drastic decrease in enmity generated by magic attacks." The first example with RDM sub would be so-so at best. But, Chainspell without generating enmity would be pretty awesome.

Think about it.

Because your talking about 1 minute of spamming as many high powered T5 Nukes at a mob as you can, against spamming as many T4 nukes without Enmity at a mob as you can. While less~no enmity is helpful, its not often going to beat out the massive damage 20 T5 spells would do by compare to 20 T4 spells. Also you have to take into account how much more MAB is on BLM, so even more power, with Chainspell+Manafont there is no need to hold back for fear of anything except hate.

[Babekeke]

It depends HOW they nerf PD as to whether ADL is going to be 'impossible'. If they shorten the duration, you'll need to use more SMN per kill, but being able to merit recast down to 30 mins, you can get 3 uses per SMN in 1 dyna run, and that's without any CORs (assuming Wild Card isn't also nerfed).

[Sargent]

Way I see it, look at Ukko's and Smite. Everyone panicked when SE announced the nerf, but it wasn't as bad as people thought it would be (only a nerf to their native critical hit rate iirc)

Now if we look at Perfect Defense and what they could do with it. At the moment it starts off with around -90~95% Damage Taken and Resistance to most stats, decaying after 45 seconds or half duration. If they reduced potency to start at say, -75% Damage Taken, it would still be fairly decent, and not completely overpowered for the 30 minute recast on Astral Flow. You would require more healing power, but either way, thats likely to be needed anyway. imo, nerfing the duration would have a much worse effect on it.

Embrava on the other hand is a much different situation. Embrava excels at capping magic haste (when used with Haste itself), and providing a strong Regen and Regain effect. At the moment, a capped Embrava will provide 34% Haste. If they reduce the Haste on Embrava by any more than 5%, you no longer cap Magic Haste. The regain I don't see getting nerfed too much (maybe one/tick), making a 30min-1hr specific spell the same potency in Regain as a XI Tactician's Roll would be extremely unfair despite Embrava's other effects, and then possibly prompt a nerf to Tact Roll. Nerfing the duration would put a serious hindrance on Neo Nyzul, but I think this is the most likely route they'll take unfortunately.

On the other hand, now's the time to ask- for the love of god, give the current Astral Flow Blood Pacts (barring Zantetsuken) a damage boost.

[Yinnyth]

This. 1000 times THIS.

Because I cannot tell you how many times I've saved my party with overdrive. (For those of you who don't play pup, that was sarcasm).

In all seriousness though, that's not how 2hrs get used anymore. It might have been 5 years ago, but they're zerg fodder now. In most events, you save your 2hr for the boss, because you can't use it twice per event, and that's the place it counts the most. If you make it so your pld can hit invincible 3 times per salvage, then he c- wait, why do you have a pld in salvage?

!@#$ happens. Any run of any event can go south quickly. The ability to recognize these problems, weigh them with when you'll need your SPs again, and properly or improperly save the day will play a large role in the new shape of FFXI.

And make no mistake, changing SPs this drastically will COMPLETELY reshape FFXI. I'm not a fan of embrava and PD getting nerfed since nyzul and dynamis are about all I do ingame right now, but I think that's part of the reason why they're delaying. Or at least I hope so. Let's wait and see how naive I am.

[Yinnyth]

Side note, because this is something I'm really curious about...: What role will wildcard play with the new SPs? Will it be able to:

1: reset both SPs of any job on a roll of V or VI?

2: reset the secondary SP of the COR who used it, or any other CORs in party?

Obviously it shouldn't be allowed to reset itself since that would result in a party full of CORs spamming nothing but quick draw, random deal, and wild card. Ohhhhh, side side note: Since Wild Card will be reduced to a 30-60 minute recast, will random deal still be on a 20 minute recast?

[MarkovChain]

Now if we look at Perfect Defense and what they could do with it. At the moment it starts off with around -90~95% Damage Taken and Resistance to most stats, decaying after 45 seconds or half duration. If they reduced potency to start at say, -75% Damage Taken, it would still be fairly decent, and not completely overpowered for the 30 minute recast on Astral Flow. You would require more healing power, but either way, thats likely to be needed anyway. imo, nerfing the duration would have a much worse effect on it.
.
And this would worsen the problem of perfect defense being required. The only way I can see ADL being changed in case of nerf would be to make ADL about as strong as DL with a 10% droprate on marrow instead. To compensate they would need to ease the process of farming pop set.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

OK SE Nerfing PD and Embrava, honestly i think they just looking a good excuse to do thia and player already give it now
complaining about the recast time on new 2 hours being shared.....
if se do this please nerf legion .... an event where you need PD and embrava to max and where you can still fail if ppl do mistakes.

i dont see really useful reducing the recast timer for SP abilities, when ppl use thier 2 hours? abyssea ? einherjar? limbus? campaing battle? dynamis? basicaly the most of events are too short and dont need to reuse SP abilities and iff you need it like legion take 1-2 cors to wild card ppl

i'd like to know ppl thought about PD and embrava Nefr, dont let SE nerf those 2 abilities, sch and smn are useful now.... they were the most unwanted jobs

They didn't need an excuse, the perfect excuse was compared to other jobs SCH's and SMN's 2-hour was OP.

At 30 minutes recast (lower with Synergy) they'll be used far more often.

[saevel]

Honestly I don't expect them to nerf them from hard. The *new* producer has directed his folks to actually listen to players, meaning if we state that current content can't be completed without those power levels then they'll think about that. I would rather Embrava / PD be nerfed a little bit while having current content also nerfed to coincide. Things SHOULD NOT need Embrava / PD to win, they should be emergency or luxury strategies not the ONLY strategy.

Jesus look at Legion and to a lesser extent ADL. We abuse the hell out of Embrava / PD because of how stupidly powerful those NMs are offensively (ADL is a defensive weakling). Since level 75 NM's offensive power has grown by at least 300%, our HP has only gone up slightly and our defensive power has only grown ~50% (not counting Embrava / PD spam). This combined with the crap enmity system puts players in a situation where it's either use PD / Embrava or die.

[Kysaiana]

This is good news. Even if all they did was separate the timers it would change most of the new "2hrs" from being meh to actually used.

As for Perfect Defense and Embrava, instead of nerfing them, the content that basically requires them to win should be adjusted. That way people would only use them as a luxury or a safety net and people wouldn't care too much if the SP's power was lowered.

[Kristal]

This is good news. Even if all they did was separate the timers it would change most of the new "2hrs" from being meh to actually used.

As for Perfect Defense and Embrava, instead of nerfing them, the content that basically requires them to win should be adjusted. That way people would only use them as a luxury or a safety net and people wouldn't care too much if the SP's power was lowered.

No, they definitely need to be nerfed, but care should be taken not to overdo it. Perpetuance'd Embrava not affecting others for double duration, for example.
Embrava should be usefull, but not THE ultimate failproof weapon to defeat a strong foe.

[Xilk]

You're still being illogical. The only 30min+ event that exists currently and doesn't have either constant 2hr resets or a ??? to lock your 2 hour on is dynamis currency farming and I will admit a dynamis with ~50 minutes of embrava would be nice and yield more currency but it's far from "SEVERELY BROKEN!!". I would be more worried about beastmasters with full time familiar in dynamis though =P. All other events would be unaffected.

fyi for the uninformed... Beastmasters already have full time familiar for Dynamis. YOu pop it once and the effect stays for the duration of the pet on a jug pet. +10% pet hp (nice but no big deal) and +10% haste from monster trousers +2, which is very nice, but for an experienced bst, this jsut means I have to fight DC's and not EP's to farm because my pet KIll's them too fast and proc rate goes way down.

[Mittenz]

fyi for the uninformed... Beastmasters already have full time familiar for Dynamis. YOu pop it once and the effect stays for the duration of the pet on a jug pet. +10% pet hp (nice but no big deal) and +10% haste from monster trousers +2, which is very nice, but for an experienced bst, this jsut means I have to fight DC's and not EP's to farm because my pet KIll's them too fast and proc rate goes way down.

Unless they changed it your familiared jug depops after 30mins so while your statement is not incorrect it certainly is not the full jug duration. (though I have not really played bst since the 90 cap so it's possible)

[Lisotte]

Disagree completely. Both Embrava and Perfect Defence is SEVERELY OP on 30 minutes, especially compared to EVERY other 2-hour in the game. Just because a way exists to abuse 2-hour reset doesn't change that.

However... if those abilities are nerfed then you've just killed neo-nyzul, and the ability to kill arch dynamis lord.

[Demon6324236]

However... if those abilities are nerfed then you've just killed neo-nyzul, and the ability to kill arch dynamis lord.

Honestly get some RDMs for CSS, keep the SMNs for nerfed-PD & ShockS, and everything else you have normally, and I see ADL as still possible. NNI is fucked though, that I agree with. Either way I don't like the idea of them nerfing the abilities, nor do I want them to, they are what I have always though a 2-hour, or SP ability, should be. A powerful ability that makes an impact on a battle when used.

[Insaniac]

I think I said this before but the biggest problem is the unstunnable tandem volley of TP moves ADL and his clone(s) unleash after splitting. It's not really easy to live through that on a mage job. If you make it through that and dedicate one sch per ADL to stun TP moves and keep a shock squall order up you will maybe have a decent chance of winning but low manning it with mules and such will be out of he question.

[Demon6324236]

Never said it would be easy.

[Taint2]

probably doable with a full party of SMNs doing a stunlock rotation with shock squall, but risky as a single dynamis implosion will end the fight.



You just need 2 SMNs. He won't live past 2 Squalls. And yes definitely takes some luck, but 100% killable without PD.

Scherzo/Earthen Armor will allow you to live past a single implosion.


Nothing requires PD or Embrava in this game. They just make it easier, more efficient and more available to the masses.

[Taint2]

I think I said this before but the biggest problem is the unstunnable tandem volley of TP moves ADL and his clone(s) unleash after splitting. It's not really easy to live through that on a mage job. If you make it through that and dedicate one sch per ADL to stun TP moves and keep a shock squall order up you will maybe have a decent chance of winning but low manning it with mules and such will be out of he question.



We've done it with 8 real players and 3 mules.

5 DD, SCH, BRD, 2 SMN (1 real, 1 mule), WHM mule, COR mule and luck.

[Xilk]

Unless they changed it your familiared jug depops after 30mins so while your statement is not incorrect it certainly is not the full jug duration. (though I have not really played bst since the 90 cap so it's possible)

You are misinformed. This has been tested recently. Here is an easy way for you to retest it if you harbor lingering concerns.

Go into abyssea and summon a pet.
Fight something to get pet below 50% hp.
Use the temp item Healing Salve I (obtained w/ 300 cruor from cruor prospector) - This will cure exactly 50% of pet HP.
Use Familiar -
Repeat above steps to use Healing Salve I - You will find the max pet hp has increased by 10%
Repeat the test after several time intervals (but before you lose the pet)
You will find the max HP does not reduce for the life of the pet.
The Familiar effect lasts for the duration of the Jug Pet.

I'm pretty sure credit for this testing goes to Falkirk, but I don't remember which forum it was on. I didn't take the time to find the post right now. Its probably on the bst threads in alla, but might be on ffxiah.

Whatever assumption or hearsay you heard at level 90 was not accurate.

[Mittenz]

You are misinformed. This has been tested recently. Here is an easy way for you to retest it if you harbor lingering concerns.

Go into abyssea and summon a pet.
Fight something to get pet below 50% hp.
Use the temp item Healing Salve I (obtained w/ 300 cruor from cruor prospector) - This will cure exactly 50% of pet HP.
Use Familiar -
Repeat above steps to use Healing Salve I - You will find the max pet hp has increased by 10%
Repeat the test after several time intervals (but before you lose the pet)
You will find the max HP does not reduce for the life of the pet.
The Familiar effect lasts for the duration of the Jug Pet.

I'm pretty sure credit for this testing goes to Falkirk, but I don't remember which forum it was on. I didn't take the time to find the post right now. Its probably on the bst threads in alla, but might be on ffxiah.

Whatever assumption or hearsay you heard at level 90 was not accurate.

It wasn't hearsay or assumptions it was simply me going into salvage summoning a pet familiaring it then having it depop after 30mins for no reason after 5-6 times I stopped doing it before I was sure I would be done in 30mins though I will try it again in a bit once I get home from work but at 90 familiar didn't simply wear off your jug pet it depopped it after 30mins

[Demon6324236]

You just need 2 SMNs. He won't live past 2 Squalls. And yes definitely takes some luck, but 100% killable without PD.

Scherzo/Earthen Armor will allow you to live past a single implosion.


Nothing requires PD or Embrava in this game. They just make it easier, more efficient and more available to the masses.

You show me a single win of Neo-Nyzul Isle, without Embrava, that gets floor 100, and I will agree with you. Until that time, it is the 1 single event I see as a requirement to have Embrava to complete.

[SleepStudy]

This is good news. Even if all they did was separate the timers it would change most of the new "2hrs" from being meh to actually used.

As for Perfect Defense and Embrava, instead of nerfing them, the content that basically requires them to win should be adjusted. That way people would only use them as a luxury or a safety net and people wouldn't care too much if the SP's power was lowered.

It is just so much easier to nerf the abilities than to actually modify the content


EDIT: I do agree that they should focus on the content and not the abilities

[Yinnyth]

You just need 2 SMNs. He won't live past 2 Squalls. And yes definitely takes some luck, but 100% killable without PD.

Scherzo/Earthen Armor will allow you to live past a single implosion.

Scherzo and earthen armor are worthless on this fight unless you're severely underleveled or you intentionally gear up with as much -HP junk as you can find. I don't know where you'd get the idea they'd be useful. There's other problems with your suggested strategy, but I'll just let them get by for now because I'm freaking tired of hearing people think scherzo does anything when you're getting beat on by 4 targets who only hit for 300-700 damage.

ADL is not hard because he hits for massive damage in single hits. He's hard because you have to deal with 2-4 of them spamming aga III (IV when lower on health), and AoE WSs which do too little damage to trigger scherzo. It's like thinking scherzo will save you vs. hundred fists.

[Okipuit]

Good morning!

Producer Akihiko Matsui has made a follow-up comment in regards in to his previous post and the feedback that was generated from it, which I would like to share with you. Without further ado~



Hello!

Thank you so much for the abundance of quick responses!

In regards to the comments we have been seeing from users raising concern that certain content won’t be possible to complete if the effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava are reduced. This is something that even the Development Team is keeping in mind with these adjustments. With that said, we are planning to make necessary adjustments to not only the abilities, but to content as well.

For both existing content and content to come in the future, I believe that conditions where special monsters are created for the sole purpose of counteracting Perfect Defense and Embrava is not desirable at all. The main idea behind the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava is to correct the situation so it will not come to this.

As a result we would like to make it so summoner and scholar can widen their range of play and usefulness via other elements. We understand that these adjustments might be somewhat of an inconvenience, but we appreciate your understanding.

Next, I’d like to provide a follow-up in regards to the separation of the recast timers.
With the separation of the recast timers it will be possible to utilize the two special job abilities together; however, since the effects were originally added with the idea that they could not be used at the same time, there are some effects currently that create bad balance. We will be adjusting this when we revamp the current effects.

Also, the situation of not having enough recast timer slots has not yet changed. In order to resolve this problem we are currently working to expand the space; however, this resolution is critical for the separation of the special job ability recast timers. This is also one reason for the delay in implementation.

Once we have completed this expansion, we believe that we will be able to improve not only the special job abilities, but other abilities that have been limited by this restriction (Steal/Despoil, Soul Jump/Spirit Jump, etc.)

[Nawesemo]

Awesome says Nawesemo.

[Zirael]

[...]With that said, we are planning to make necessary adjustments to not only the abilities, but to content as well. [...]
The JP version of this post mentions that PD and Embrava will be weakened first and content relying on them to be won, readjusted at a later time.
What are supposed to do people who made groups/linkshells dedicated solely for the purpose of Nyzul Isle, ADL or Legion do in the weeks/months between PD and Embrava being invalidated and content adjusted?
I realise party/alliance full of Ragnaroks and Daurdablas99 might not suffer as much, but even then going for something like ADL or Paramount Botulus will be an interesting thing to see.

[Sargent]

As a result we would like to make it so summoner and scholar can widen their range of play and usefulness via other elements.

Let's look at Summoner outside the use of Astral Flow/Astral Conduit. You can use an offensive Blood Pact every 45 seconds, and a defensive Blood Pact every 45 seconds (provided delay is capped). Your melee damage in between is.. pathetic, and you can only provide your pet with 10% Haste in gear to enhance this (5% head, 5% belt), as well as +9% critical hit rate (3% head, 6% body). Blood Pacts deal around the same damage as a single weapon skill, or tier 5 nuke provided you use a decent mix of gear and don't stick to the fulltime AF3 garbage.
If you want to make them useful for endgame outside PD/squall... increase the frequency of Blood Pacts outside of a 30~120 min JA that lasts 30 seconds.

Scholar's situation isn't as bad, but a WHM is more proficient at curing, and a BLM is more proficient at nuking. If your not in need of Embrava for an Endgame event, you tend to favour WHM/BLM since they're better at the role required.

Now, not jumping the gun and saying "SMN/SCH are going to be useless when PD/Embrava is nerfed" because the honest truth is no one knows to what extent they are getting nerfed. But please bear in mind that you do need to look into how to make other jobs (not just SMN/SCH) useful since you have acknowledged the increase in battle speed this game has experienced.

[Babekeke]

We feel that it's unfair to have RDM sat in the corner all alone in uselessness, so by nerfing PD and Embrava, RDM will no longer be alone!

Or something like that?

[Ophannus]

If you uncouple shared recasts like Spirit/Soul jump >>PLEASE<<< do not make them weaker. One of the community reps said the reason why they grant so much TP is because it's a shared timer and if the timers became unshared they would need to weaken the effects. Please do not weaken spirit and soul jump by lowering their recast or their damage or their TP generation. DRG needs TP generation to deal damage compared to compete at all with other damage dealers. Spirit Surge is a 2hour version of a 25% ability haste which lasts for 60 seconds--compared to Last Resort which does the same haste but also grants attack boost and lasts for 3minutes and 5min recast!!

[Zirael]

If you uncouple shared recasts like Spirit/Soul jump >>PLEASE<<< do not make them weaker. One of the community reps said the reason why they grant so much TP is because it's a shared timer and if the timers became unshared they would need to weaken the effects. Please do not weaken spirit and soul jump by lowering their recast or their damage or their TP generation. DRG needs TP generation to deal damage compared to compete at all with other damage dealers. Spirit Surge is a 2hour version of a 25% ability haste which lasts for 60 seconds--compared to Last Resort which does the same haste but also grants attack boost and lasts for 3minutes and 5min recast!!
Last Resort can be merited down to 4min10s. Sorry to add salt to your wounds :/

[Martel]

Seconding this. While I'd love separate timer for jump/high jump and spirit/soul jump, if you have to nerf them to do it, don't bother. We'd just end up with twice as much JA delay cutting into our melee for the same or less TP gain.

Now, if they won't be nerfed, then /joy, 4 jumps!

[Taint2]

Scherzo and earthen armor are worthless on this fight unless you're severely underleveled or you intentionally gear up with as much -HP junk as you can find. I don't know where you'd get the idea they'd be useful. There's other problems with your suggested strategy, but I'll just let them get by for now because I'm freaking tired of hearing people think scherzo does anything when you're getting beat on by 4 targets who only hit for 300-700 damage.

ADL is not hard because he hits for massive damage in single hits. He's hard because you have to deal with 2-4 of them spamming aga III (IV when lower on health), and AoE WSs which do too little damage to trigger scherzo. It's like thinking scherzo will save you vs. hundred fists.


If I hadn't killed without PD I'd agree with you. But I have and so have otheres.....squall is a powerful tool, he won't be getting much of anything off. Earthen armor/scherzo are just part of stacking the odds, good DDs and squalls are the foundation.

Is it fool proof, hell no, is it doable, without a doubt.

[Kari]

How about giving DNC some of that "Not shared JA Timers" love? =P

[Sasaraixx]

As a result we would like to make it so summoner and scholar can widen their range of play and usefulness via other elements. We understand that these adjustments might be somewhat of an inconvenience, but we appreciate your understanding.

Somewhat of an inconvenience? Talk about a huge understatement. I am all for you all creating content that doesn't revolve around us needing to be invincible in order to win consistently. The problem I have is that you still don't seem to understand that certain jobs have practically ZERO use in endgame content. For all of this talk of balance, this is an area that you have not properly addressed. You are going to need to do more than just "widen their area of play and usefulness." I would like a statement showing some serious commitment to this issue. "Somewhat of an inconvenience" does not inspire much confidence.

That is why so many of us have continued to ask for adjustments to the many useless spells and abilities SCH has because without Embrava the job is left basically in the exact same place it was in years ago. (And we all knew an Embrava nerf was coming.) Sure SCH is a better healer now, but that isn't going to get it invited to just about anything. SMN has use now for Shock Squall and Earthen Armor occasionally. Astral Flow has returned to being fairly lackluster as well. I already have free avatars, normal BPs do more damage and Odin is pretty useless.

I'll be satisfied when I see details for revamping the enmity system, the animus spells, Aldoquium, Libra, MV, Ward potency, BP timer caps, avatar melee damage, avatar favor mechanics, etc.

Don't get me wrong. There are other jobs out there who have it worse than SCH and SMN. You've just effectively moved them to top tier of the misfits club.

I'm excited for all of the other changes. Splitting those JA timers and addressing some of the new content is awesome news.

[Yinnyth]

If I hadn't killed without PD I'd agree with you. But I have and so have otheres.....squall is a powerful tool, he won't be getting much of anything off. Earthen armor/scherzo are just part of stacking the odds, good DDs and squalls are the foundation.

Is it fool proof, hell no, is it doable, without a doubt.

Of course it's doable. But what exactly is scherzo + EA doing for you? What ability does ADL use that does 800+ damage in a single hit? Even though he synchs his WSs perfectly when he splits, they're both checked seperately for whether or not scherzo will have an effect. Having dozens of ADL attempts under my belt, I have yet to see him do any attack besides Thundaga IV on a single target or Dynamic Assault which would actually cause scherzo to proc. If Thundaga IV is on a single target, you're in trouble anyways. Dynamic Assault he only uses at higher HPs, is a single-target attack, and is still survivable by most melees.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm getting at. I'm not saying "it's impossible to win without PD." I'm saying "why are you using scherzo?" Scherzo is almost completely worthless vs. ADL. You may as well be using aubade to increase sleep resist.

[Rezeak]

I'm so glad PD and Embrava are getting nerfed cause the idea of full time embrava and pd for all endgame was zzzzz

As for where this will leave SCH and SMN

SCH with it's Regen V + nearly infinite mp makes it a better healer than WHM in alot of places and also makes it take the spot as second healer. (not to mention SCH/BLM is an amazing stunner)

SMN has been broken for too long :(

All it really has now is Shock squall and fights like Proto-Ultima

It needs a DMG boost and when it's DMG isn't useful it should get better surrport options.

[saevel]

Somewhat of an inconvenience? Talk about a huge understatement. I am all for you all creating content that doesn't revolve around us needing to be invincible in order to win consistently. The problem I have is that you still don't seem to understand that certain jobs have practically ZERO use in endgame content

Hyperbole much ....

SMN has Shock Squall and as others have said, it's pretty amazing provided the SMN has their skill capped. SMN could stand to have those stupid timers lowered to 30s or less though. Also needs it's buffs duration set to 3~5min so that they could use them more frequently.

SCH is wow ... if you seriously so ignorant as to think SCH has "no use in end game" then there's nothing anyone can say to convince you otherwise.

Otherwise there are indeed jobs that are left out due to their near uselessness, none of those jobs were mentioned in this recent info and if anything having their "2hrs" on a 30min timer might make them a bit more useful.

What's really happening is people are scared sh1tless that SE is about to nerf the two mechanics they've been abusing to beat SE's stupid "Evil GM" content. Content that was designed to never be regularly beaten and to suck playtime out of you. I was worried about this until the recent message stating they were already aware that some content currently requires those special ability's to beat. They will be looking into revising that content to be frequently be beatable without having to resort to abusing PD / Embrava mechanics.

[Vagrua]

Maybe it will help push the game back in the right direction of tanks actually being viable over just zerging everything.

[saevel]

Maybe it will help push the game back in the right direction of tanks actually being viable over just zerging everything.

Not until they fix enmity. Right now your melee are your tanks and absolutely no other way for it to work. Doing a 3K WS nets you approx 3000 CE and 9000 VE, the enmity caps are 10000 CE and 10000 VE, "Provoke is 1800 VE and 1CE, Flash is something like 1280 VE and some small amount of CE. So you can see that damage by FAR outweighs all other sources of hate gain, and once multiple people are at 20,000 TE the monster will target the last person to hit it, aka the person with the lowest delay / most haste. This means that in order for "tanks" to get anywhere near the top of the hate list they need to be rocking full DD gear spamming high damage WS's while being super buffed by a COR and double BRD rotation. At that point they've sacrificed so much that their no longer "tanks" and are just "gimp DDs". Try to imagine a PLD/WAR with a Rag in Phorcy's using resolution over and over again to keep "hate". At that point in time wouldn't it just be better to use a WAR or DRK instead? PLD's primary advantage is that it takes less damage then other melee's, but if it has to throw that away to obtain mediocre damage output, why even use them at all.

[hideka]

Matsui..... my current feelings regarding your leadership are below.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7772p6K0Z1qdq433.jpg

please take my first born son as payment as well.

[Septimus]

Next, I’d like to provide a follow-up in regards to the separation of the recast timers.
With the separation of the recast timers it will be possible to utilize the two special job abilities together; however, since the effects were originally added with the idea that they could not be used at the same time, there are some effects currently that create bad balance. We will be adjusting this when we revamp the current effects.


If it would create bad balance (that word is a hideous mockery now, a foul, warped abomination of human language; can we use something else, like "equilibrium" or "parity" instead) to use two special abilities at the same time; instead of nerfing abilities and making them less useful, just set it up so we can't use two at the same time. This could be done in one of two ways. If you have a SP icon, trying to use the other job ability would have no effect but not use the timer. (Like in the olden days when you had to have an avatar out in order to use Astral Flow, trying to trigger the JA without one would just not work.) The other option would be that when you use a SP ability, the other SP ability goes on a slight delay if it is ready or close to ready; note the use of the word "slight," perhaps varying on the duration of the special ability. (For example, if a Bard uses Soul Voice which has a 3-minute duration, he/she wouldn't be able to use the other SP ability for 5 minutes; for Benediction or Eagle Eye Shot a two minute delay for the other SP ability since they do not have durations. Or maybe a set 5 minute delay for all SP abilities.) This way you don't have to worry about players finding combinations of special abilities that will cause the world to burn down (because we will, believe me we would find a way) and every job gets a new ability that has a practical value. (Except for Warriors, Thieves, Blue Mages, and Scholars- their new abilities are kind of lul-worthy, but you can't win them all.)

[Taint2]

Of course it's doable. But what exactly is scherzo + EA doing for you? What ability does ADL use that does 800+ damage in a single hit? Even though he synchs his WSs perfectly when he splits, they're both checked seperately for whether or not scherzo will have an effect. Having dozens of ADL attempts under my belt, I have yet to see him do any attack besides Thundaga IV on a single target or Dynamic Assault which would actually cause scherzo to proc. If Thundaga IV is on a single target, you're in trouble anyways. Dynamic Assault he only uses at higher HPs, is a single-target attack, and is still survivable by most melees.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm getting at. I'm not saying "it's impossible to win without PD." I'm saying "why are you using scherzo?" Scherzo is almost completely worthless vs. ADL. You may as well be using aubade to increase sleep resist.


Fair enough.

We did have them up during our non-PD wins whether they did anything or not. Maybe it atleast saved our poor Taru WHM with 1k HP....lol

[FrankReynolds]

I think everything Mr. Matsui has said has made perfect sense so far. Past experiences with SE have made me a pessimistic beast, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He appears to have actually listened to most of the (rational) feedback on these forums in regards to this topic. I hope he does the same with other topics.

NNI and Legion clearly need more adjustment if they plan on having people do them without the use of PD / Embrava with any sort of regularity. As far as ADL, won't Sam's new SP ability negate almost all his attacks? or am I reading that wrong?

[Insaniac]

Fair enough.

We did have them up during our non-PD wins whether they did anything or not. Maybe it atleast saved our poor Taru WHM with 1k HP....lolYeah, Scherzo is for the mages.

One nice fix for ADL would be to lower the range of his AoEs which seems to be some outlandish number like 40+ yalms. My LS messed around with some non-PD strats for ADL and the biggest problem was that there was just no way to be taking part in the fight without taking huge damage and getting hit with enfeebs. If you could have a tank pull one ADL out of range so you only had to worry about 1 TP move at a time that would be tremendous. Increasing the delay on Teraslash and Dynamic Implosion to something much more stunnable would go a long ways as well. I think with those changes you could fight him and his clones indefinitely until you found the right one.

[ManaKing]

I'm happy with the direction this is going. PD and Embrava + Ragnarok is getting old. Apparently we just kill boss mobs for the most part now and well......I've played Chrono Trigger. I know what Boss Fights feel like when they are fun. This game, not so much some days.

[saevel]

Yeah, Scherzo is for the mages.

One nice fix for ADL would be to lower the range of his AoEs which seems to be some outlandish number like 40+ yalms. My LS messed around with some non-PD strats for ADL and the biggest problem was that there was just no way to be taking part in the fight without taking huge damage and getting hit with enfeebs. If you could have a tank pull one ADL out of range so you only had to worry about 1 TP move at a time that would be tremendous. Increasing the delay on Teraslash and Dynamic Implosion to something much more stunnable would go a long ways as well. I think with those changes you could fight him and his clones indefinitely until you found the right one.

ADL was designed as an ultimate "cheap boss". It's Tanaka's shinying baby, the Neo-Shrinyu / Ozma of FFXI (amongst other esteemed company). In the past we CSS'd DL while we zerged him to prevent him from instantly killing everyone. In ADL's case he's forced to splint and you can only CSS one of this clones yet during that initial damage phase everyone us taking stupid damage amounts. As experienced ADL killers know, if you try to kill him too fast he'll just pop three clones so a pure CSS zerg isn't' possible. Your basically down to using PD (we use an outside SCH with their 2hr locked on the ??? for embrava) to absorb his stupid damage output while you kill him. No PD and your mages will just instantly die on the first oblivion smash / terra slash / dyna implosion / ect..

They'd have to nerf the range on ALL his abilities down to 15~19 yalms in order for him to be killed without a serious dose of luck. A strategy we've incorporated is having a BLU in another party spamming HB / SL / TS / WoR to slow him down. Stuns don't always stick, now do they stick for long, but it does slow him down and keep people alive longer.

[saevel]

Heh thought you guys would get a kick out of this.

Tanaka's Bible (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillerGameMaster)

and

Players Responce to Tanaka's Bible (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhenAllYouHaveIsAHammer)

Then finally

Tanaka's answer to the Players responce (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DamageSpongeBoss)

[Dragoy]

A couple of days late bye... for years upon years I have been saying that the 2 hour wait is unneeded, and that it should be reduced to preferably 30 minutes, or at least, 45-60. I had to read the post quite a few times to believe in that it is actually, finally, being thought upon!

I guess anything and everything really is possible. ^^

Not that I believe my word(s) have been seen, but it is nice to see that there are at least some people within the developer ranks who think the same way. So even if it is early to say this, I say thank you, for it will certainly improve my gaming experience if I am still playing at the time. It's not really a big deal all in all, but sometimes it is the small things that matter the most!

Even if I were not to play at the time, I will still look from afar with great interest, how the world of Vana'diel evolves.


Likewise, deciding to separate the new abilities from each other (recast timers) I agree just as well, and I guess anyone could have seen the Embrava and Perfect Defense 'nerfs' coming. It will not affect me, I guess, since I've never even been cast Embrava upon, and only a few times have I been under the effect of Perfect Defense. Obviously I do not do NYzul Isle Investigation II nor Legion due to obvious reasons.

While I do not have any suggestions and thoughts to share really before I can do more testing, I just wanted to say: ありがとう, because I like the direction this is going (for now at least).

It will also be interesting to see if anything will finally be done about the 'locking of buffs' as well with the changes to content that heavily seem to depend upon Embrava and Perfect Defense, since that surely is not intended game-play...


Blubb!

[Martel]

As far as ADL, won't Sam's new SP ability negate almost all his attacks? or am I reading that wrong?Even if it does, that gets you one ADL, per ~5 DD's 2hours. Whereas PD can be given to the pt, so you can use the same DDs and cycle SMNs.

I don't think SAM is the answer to post PD ADL. <,<

[Insaniac]

They'd have to nerf the range on ALL his abilities down to 15~19 yalms in order for him to be killed without a serious dose of luck.That's pretty much what I was suggesting. They could leave implosion at around 30' but make it a long wind up. It's fine for there to be FU moves but there needs to be a way to overcome them that doesn't involve being invincible. Being able to tank/stun one ADL off to the side and just let it re-split into 2 if you pick the wrong one would still make for an interesting and fun fight that still required some amount of strategy and paying attention.

As for the BLU stuns, I think you are just asking to get a "no effect" on shock squall. You really should only need 1 shock squall per ADL. If you fire it at around 30% he should be dead before he's out of stun.

[Tamarsamar]

One thing that I liked about Matsui's post is that he actually grasps the concept of "game balance." Game balance (in terms of a PvE game like FFXI) is impossible when the game is a constant arms race between the players and newer, more strongerer and double-unkillable mobs. That's actually the exact opposite of game balance, where the game becomes a farce of its former self reduced to one dominant strategy at a time.

It certainly didn't help that in FFXI's earlier years, balance heavily relied upon players not knowing what certain statistics did. Turning "Attack" into damage is a needlessly convoluted process, as a prime example (versus, say, Magic Attack Bonus for spell damage, though Magic Resistance is pretty convoluted itself).

What game balance actually is, to get back to my original point, is ensuring that the game doesn't reduce to the ridiculous arms race mentioned above. Always "more power" a la Tim Taylor will eventually cause your game to collapse (also a la Tim Taylor). The players are actually the crux of this problem for the game designer: they will always pursue what's the most powerful option for them. You fix the TP return on Weapon Skills so Monks can't Asuran Fists back-to-back-to-back, and the players ruthlessly and relentlessly sing a years-long dirge on the "nerfing" of Dragoon's Penta Thrust WS. I feel that lately (over the past few years), the dev team has been too scared of player feedback to cut back on innate player power any more, barring obvious extreme situations, and has instead pursued balance between the jobs with buffs buffs and yet more buffs. In pursuit of making more challenging content, more and more obscenely powerful monsters are designed to compete with the players. And the players whine and complain for more buffs.

This continues ad infinitum in a vicious cycle until someone says "enough is enough." While what Matsui has said regarding PD and Embrava is all-in-all a rather modestly proposed cutback, it's an important step in the right direction. If Matsui is the man to say "enough," to rein the game back under control before players are ambushed by Hundred Fist TP-Draining Enfeeble-immune mobs in Adoulin, the game can only benefit in the long run as a result.

[saevel]

The concept behind EVERY FFXI BOSS

FFXI BOSS's (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SmashMook)

[saevel]

That's pretty much what I was suggesting. They could leave implosion at around 30' but make it a long wind up. It's fine for there to be FU moves but there needs to be a way to overcome them that doesn't involve being invincible. Being able to tank/stun one ADL off to the side and just let it re-split into 2 if you pick the wrong one would still make for an interesting and fun fight that still required some amount of strategy and paying attention.

As for the BLU stuns, I think you are just asking to get a "no effect" on shock squall. You really should only need 1 shock squall per ADL. If you fire it at around 30% he should be dead before he's out of stun.


We've run into problems with SMN's actually surviving to use SS. Our SMNs tend to be outside of the melee party where their vulnerable to all his stupid moves. The 15 foot range on pet commands further screws with us.

Also we have incredibly bad luck with picking the wrong one. We now plan on killing both clones at a minimum, sometimes more. The most I've ever seen up is four clones, usually after a sudden implosion when we've tried to kill it to fast.

[Sasaraixx]

Hyperbole much ....

SMN has Shock Squall and as others have said, it's pretty amazing provided the SMN has their skill capped. SMN could stand to have those stupid timers lowered to 30s or less though. Also needs it's buffs duration set to 3~5min so that they could use them more frequently.

SCH is wow ... if you seriously so ignorant as to think SCH has "no use in end game" then there's nothing anyone can say to convince you otherwise.

Otherwise there are indeed jobs that are left out due to their near uselessness, none of those jobs were mentioned in this recent info and if anything having their "2hrs" on a 30min timer might make them a bit more useful.

No, It wasn't. And you don't think so either because you actually go on to agree with me. Contradict yourself much? Or perhaps you should choose which sections you quote more carefully.

I already mentioned Shock Squall. Your point is redundant.

SCH uses . . . outside of Embrava and perhaps Alacrity stunning, what have you got? Go.



SCH with it's Regen V + nearly infinite mp makes it a better healer than WHM in alot of places and also makes it take the spot as second healer. (not to mention SCH/BLM is an amazing stunner)

I would agree with you if White Mages running out of MP was a serious problem or there was actually a need for second healers.

[Insaniac]

We've run into problems with SMN's actually surviving to use SS. Our SMNs tend to be outside of the melee party where their vulnerable to all his stupid moves. The 15 foot range on pet commands further screws with us.

Also we have incredibly bad luck with picking the wrong one. We now plan on killing both clones at a minimum, sometimes more. The most I've ever seen up is four clones, usually after a sudden implosion when we've tried to kill it to fast.Have your PD smn bring a vile elixir/+1. Your non-PDed smns should be able to recover from the first volley by the time the PD SMNs Shock Squall wears.

[Arcon]

This could be done in one of two ways. If you have a SP icon, trying to use the other job ability would have no effect but not use the timer. (Like in the olden days when you had to have an avatar out in order to use Astral Flow, trying to trigger the JA without one would just not work.) The other option would be that when you use a SP ability, the other SP ability goes on a slight delay if it is ready or close to ready; note the use of the word "slight," perhaps varying on the duration of the special ability. (For example, if a Bard uses Soul Voice which has a 3-minute duration, he/she wouldn't be able to use the other SP ability for 5 minutes; for Benediction or Eagle Eye Shot a two minute delay for the other SP ability since they do not have durations. Or maybe a set 5 minute delay for all SP abilities.)

Another way would be to make them overwrite each other. That way you can always use them, but never have both effects up at the same time. And it won't bite you in the ass if you used it one second too early to get the "no effect" message.


We've run into problems with SMN's actually surviving to use SS. Our SMNs tend to be outside of the melee party where their vulnerable to all his stupid moves. The 15 foot range on pet commands further screws with us.

Just pointing out that it's 20' (assuming you meant yalms), but still agree with you.

[Insaniac]

Another way would be to make them overwrite each other. That way you can always use them, but never have both effects up at the same time. And it won't bite you in the ass if you used it one second too early to get the "no effect" message.It also worries me that they seem to want to make the 2 abilities synergistic. I think to myself, "What kind of terrible ability would stack with perfect dodge?" and "What kind of pathetic excuse for an ability will they give jobs with good 2hrs like WAR?" I think it would be much better to make them mutually exclusive and for the most part unrelated to each other. There's also kind of no point to making them separate abilities if they are going to compliment each other. No one will ever use them separately.

[Sekhmet]

I just thought of a new Sp ability for bst, since it's pretty unanimous that the pet absorbing one is undesirable to the player base. How about the SP ability calls a random jug pet at normal power levels according to the bsts' current lvl. This pet would only stay for 5 mins, otherwise the bst would have a free pet constantly. This would be a kind of 'oh crap' button for bst if they lose their pet in the middle of a fight, and call beast isn't up yet. this fits with the player base idea that without a pet, bst is helpless.

[Zhronne]

FANTASTIC NEWS.

Nobody can know how this will play out on the long run and if they will really be able to keep their promises, but so far it's looking good and looks like Matsui REALLY knows this game, what's going on, what's working and what's broken.

[Caketime]

I just thought of a new Sp ability for bst, since it's pretty unanimous that the pet absorbing one is undesirable to the player base. How about the SP ability calls a random jug pet at normal power levels according to the bsts' current lvl. This pet would only stay for 5 mins, otherwise the bst would have a free pet constantly. This would be a kind of 'oh crap' button for bst if they lose their pet in the middle of a fight, and call beast isn't up yet. this fits with the player base idea that without a pet, bst is helpless.

It's not an idea that BST is helpless without a pet, it's a fact. Next time you get a chance, use Leave during an NM fight and tank with your chin. Also, I anticipate an ability like this consistently summoning the most useless pet possible in nearly every situation.

[Calatilla]

It's not an idea that BST is helpless without a pet, it's a fact. Next time you get a chance, use Leave during an NM fight and tank with your chin. Also, I anticipate an ability like this consistently summoning the most useless pet possible in nearly every situation.

Not to mention, if Charm was relevant BST wouldn't need an ability to summon a useless pet every 5 mins

[Secondplanet]

Here's an idea, cut down bloodpact timers to 30seconds with the ability to cut down to 15seconds. Outside of abyssea this can't be all that bad, we'll be out of MP before anyone can really say its unbalanced. Or you can just give our avatars a power boost and defense boost so their not out in 3 seconds once they get hate and can actually be on the mob without people screaming like children that we're feeding it TP.

Also GIVE US OUR DAMN CAIT SITH YOU PROMISED US.

[Mahoro]

Have your PD smn bring a vile elixir/+1. Your non-PDed smns should be able to recover from the first volley by the time the PD SMNs Shock Squall wears.

We do this too. Another strategy to use in tandem is to have a non-PD'd SMN run 30-40 yalms away on pop, and then after split rush in to Squall as the mob is being brought down to ~30%. Usually the PD'd SMN Squalls first because he/she was able to survive the AOE, and the non-PD'd SMN takes care of the second Squall.

[Insaniac]

We tried putting people out of range and on our 1st try one of the ADL clones went running off into the distance. It looked like they picked a random target after the split so we never tried that again.

[Sekhmet]

It's not an idea that BST is helpless without a pet, it's a fact. Next time you get a chance, use Leave during an NM fight and tank with your chin. Also, I anticipate an ability like this consistently summoning the most useless pet possible in nearly every situation.

I appreciate your opinion, but I do not appreciate your tone. If my use of the word apparently offended you, I apologize. I simply believe that everyone should be aware that there are people who think differently, and their opinions should not be dismissed out of hand. If everyone who thought differently was dismissed, none of us would be using these wonderful computers, or talking on cell phones, or using electric lighting.

I was merely suggesting an alternative ability because the ones suggested by the developers were apparently underwelming to the player base. The ability I suggested is not supposed to replace call beast or the jug pets, It is meant as a temporary measure until the bst can use call beast again. It is more in the vein of a defensive ability then an offensive ability. Look on it like a bst version of the pup ability Deus Ex Automata. As for the pet having a high chance of being inappropriate to the danger at hand, how many bsts carry a full compliment of jugs for every situation? In my experience, the only pet I see being used on a regular basis is Falcorr. However, if the random aspect is too disappointing for you, make it so the last pet called with call beast is called by this ability. Also, Catatilla, This ability would have an hour recast, 30 mins with merits, So the pet would only be around for 5 mins out of 30, maximum.

[Taint2]

We've run into problems with SMN's actually surviving to use SS. Our SMNs tend to be outside of the melee party where their vulnerable to all his stupid moves. The 15 foot range on pet commands further screws with us.

Also we have incredibly bad luck with picking the wrong one. We now plan on killing both clones at a minimum, sometimes more. The most I've ever seen up is four clones, usually after a sudden implosion when we've tried to kill it to fast.


Use 2 SMNs for Squall and ADL/s won't be able to do much after the split. Squall at the split, then squall again as close to 20% as possible. If you choose wrong the first Squaller can go when the 2nd mob is at 20%.

If you do happen to wipe a single DRK can keep Bio on and hold the mobs while other DDs either run outside of range and recover or zombie it down. Just make sure nobody is in a pty. (alliance hate)

[saevel]

Use 2 SMNs for Squall and ADL/s won't be able to do much after the split. Squall at the split, then squall again as close to 20% as possible. If you choose wrong the first Squaller can go when the 2nd mob is at 20%.

If you do happen to wipe a single DRK can keep Bio on and hold the mobs while other DDs either run outside of range and recover or zombie it down. Just make sure nobody is in a pty. (alliance hate)

Will try this. Thanks

[SpankWustler]

I barely know how to reply to these new posts. I just kept...looking at it every day.

I feel like the homeless schizophrenic whose hallucinated God told him, "Nah, I'm not going to rain fire on the world next Tuesday and there's no need to repent. Here's five bucks for all the double-cheeseburgers you can eat."

That's great, but I now have no idea what to write on this sign. "Something horrid will happen eventually but for now I have these cheeseburgers," won't fit!


For both existing content and content to come in the future, I believe that conditions where special monsters are created for the sole purpose of counteracting Perfect Defense and Embrava is not desirable at all. The main idea behind the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava is to correct the situation so it will not come to this.

As a result we would like to make it so summoner and scholar can widen their range of play and usefulness via other elements. We understand that these adjustments might be somewhat of an inconvenience, but we appreciate your understanding.

Assuming the "usefulness via other elements" bit in the second paragraph is followed through on, I think this is exactly what people who actively (want to) play and fully equip these two jobs would want.

Oddly enough, there's a strong resonance between Summoner and Scholar right now. Both are wanted in groups only for their ridiculously powerful two-hour abilities and the unique way in which they can Stun monsters, though the ways those two jobs arrive at the same two things differs.

[Caketime]

I appreciate your opinion, but I do not appreciate your tone. If my use of the word apparently offended you, I apologize. I simply believe that everyone should be aware that there are people who think differently, and their opinions should not be dismissed out of hand. If everyone who thought differently was dismissed, none of us would be using these wonderful computers, or talking on cell phones, or using electric lighting.

I was merely suggesting an alternative ability because the ones suggested by the developers were apparently underwelming to the player base. The ability I suggested is not supposed to replace call beast or the jug pets, It is meant as a temporary measure until the bst can use call beast again. It is more in the vein of a defensive ability then an offensive ability. Look on it like a bst version of the pup ability Deus Ex Automata. As for the pet having a high chance of being inappropriate to the danger at hand, how many bsts carry a full compliment of jugs for every situation? In my experience, the only pet I see being used on a regular basis is Falcorr. However, if the random aspect is too disappointing for you, make it so the last pet called with call beast is called by this ability. Also, Catatilla, This ability would have an hour recast, 30 mins with merits, So the pet would only be around for 5 mins out of 30, maximum.

Ah, condescension. My favorite form of flattery. This suggestion is bad, BST who aren't dumb bring multiple pets to the field and would never have a reason to use this, just like the current proposed two hour ability. It's like a novelty bong, it's fun th first few times but it's just not practical.

[Mahoro]

We tried putting people out of range and on our 1st try one of the ADL clones went running off into the distance. It looked like they picked a random target after the split so we never tried that again.

You had "people" plural out of range? I agree that would probably be risky. Perhaps we've gotten lucky but we've never had the lone SMN be targeted (in 18-person ally, maybe it's just 1/18 odds). And in any event, right after split that SMN is racing into BP range so the clone would only be diverted for a few seconds at best, time enough to 1 or 2-shot a poor defenseless SMN and re-enter the fray.


Use 2 SMNs for Squall and ADL/s won't be able to do much after the split. Squall at the split, then squall again as close to 20% as possible. If you choose wrong the first Squaller can go when the 2nd mob is at 20%.


Agreed on the percentages here, but just to interject, if only taking 2 Squallers, I doubt the BP Ward timer for the 1st Squaller will be back up by the time the 2nd mob is at 20%. The time between initial split and 2nd clone being 20% will likely be less than 45 seconds, but mileage may vary depending on ally size.

[Taint2]

You had "people" plural out of range? I agree that would probably be risky. Perhaps we've gotten lucky but we've never had the lone SMN be targeted (in 18-person ally, maybe it's just 1/18 odds). And in any event, right after split that SMN is racing into BP range so the clone would only be diverted for a few seconds at best, time enough to 1 or 2-shot a poor defenseless SMN and re-enter the fray.



Agreed on the percentages here, but just to interject, if only taking 2 Squallers, I doubt the BP Ward timer for the 1st Squaller will be back up by the time the 2nd mob is at 20%. The time between initial split and 2nd clone being 20% will likely be less than 45 seconds, but mileage may vary depending on ally size.


We use 5 DDs max on ADL, but yeah the 2nd Squall from the first SMN is iffy but it can make it.


ADL will definitely do some random hate run aways. We had him run after one of my mules that had not done a single action to ADL. This was right after the split.

[deces]

Any news on these new 2 hours? Seems like SE is trying to bury this topic till its too late.

[Caketime]

I'm curious if they're going to consider a "Chocoburger" icon for the BST 2Hr.

[Fupafighter]

THE PET HAS TO STAY, no matter what!! Agreed totally. What kind of an idiot come up with this retarded new 2 hours for beast master, not to mention countless of extremely horrendous ideas for 2 hours for several jobs, ALL EXCEPT Samurai, which actually get one of the best new two hours, pretty much the best of the best from several jobs. The thing that is the most baffling is their constant ignorance to what the players are trying to tell them. Several threads already made suggestions and their stance is still, WE DO NOT CARE NOR LISTEN.... This is a very sad direction indeed....
Tanaka's last strike for sam before he left lol.

[Rambus]

Dear Dev team and Matsui-san ,

As a veteran player who started at the PS2 release over 8 years ago , i have seen many changes made to the game i love so dearly . Some have been very welcome , others maybe not so much . Up until the release of the Abyssea Battle Add-on Trilogy , The 2 hour ability not only defined the job class it was for , but was the Last Resort or hidden Ace-up-the-sleeve that would or could turn the tide of battle . These Abilities are supposed to be over powered , hence the exceptionally long cool down . In the Official Strategy Guides this point was firmly stated and as the game progressed from Rise of the Zilart to Chains of Promithia thru the Treasures of Aht Urghan , crucial use of these extreme abilities was the difference between success and failure . Chainspell Stunning Suzaku's Chainspell , or Countering Sieryu's Hundred Fists with Invincible are prime examples of how the game used to require sacrifice and strategy to prevail .
Reading each new "update" about how the Dev team is seeking "balance" , especially lately more than ever , seems more like a new Absolute Virtue is being sought . If you feel you must weaken a job's most powerful ability then you must in turn weaken the foes they are used against . Balance . Perhaps tho , as a suggestion , instead of looking for the new impossible to kill monster or Kill the entire alliance Ability the Dev team could take some different ques from the FFXI of old and include content that requires actual team work and strategy and doesnt rely on "Staggering" , Temporary items , Atma/Atmacite , or certain 2 hour abilities to defeat it . It happened in the past , no reason it cant happen now . Jailer of Love , Kirin , Proto-Omega , Proto-Ultima , the list goes on . These monsters yielded some of the most sought after items and they were hard won with team work and strategy .
Keep 2 hours Over Powered , while preserving the soul of FFXI . Keep up the great work on a wonderful game .

<3 Mikumaru



This. 1000 times THIS.

I was thinking the same thing so i hit like for both posts. Only for me was NA comp and that actually started as level 70 for the cap but that was changed like 2 months later so it really did not effect us much having 70 being the cap.

[Waldrich]

Dear Dev team and Matsui-san ,

As a veteran player who started at the PS2 release over 8 years ago , i have seen many changes made to the game i love so dearly . Some have been very welcome , others maybe not so much . Up until the release of the Abyssea Battle Add-on Trilogy , The 2 hour ability not only defined the job class it was for , but was the Last Resort or hidden Ace-up-the-sleeve that would or could turn the tide of battle . These Abilities are supposed to be over powered , hence the exceptionally long cool down . In the Official Strategy Guides this point was firmly stated and as the game progressed from Rise of the Zilart to Chains of Promithia thru the Treasures of Aht Urghan , crucial use of these extreme abilities was the difference between success and failure . Chainspell Stunning Suzaku's Chainspell , or Countering Sieryu's Hundred Fists with Invincible are prime examples of how the game used to require sacrifice and strategy to prevail .
Reading each new "update" about how the Dev team is seeking "balance" , especially lately more than ever , seems more like a new Absolute Virtue is being sought . If you feel you must weaken a job's most powerful ability then you must in turn weaken the foes they are used against . Balance . Perhaps tho , as a suggestion , instead of looking for the new impossible to kill monster or Kill the entire alliance Ability the Dev team could take some different ques from the FFXI of old and include content that requires actual team work and strategy and doesnt rely on "Staggering" , Temporary items , Atma/Atmacite , or certain 2 hour abilities to defeat it . It happened in the past , no reason it cant happen now . Jailer of Love , Kirin , Proto-Omega , Proto-Ultima , the list goes on . These monsters yielded some of the most sought after items and they were hard won with team work and strategy .
Keep 2 hours Over Powered , while preserving the soul of FFXI . Keep up the great work on a wonderful game .

<3 Mikumaru

CAN YOU HEAR IT SQUARE ENIX?

[Demon6324236]

Ya know, I'm somewhat afraid since we haven't heard anything about this in more than a month, and it was getting frequent updates back then it seemed. :(

[Caketime]

I have a feeling that they're probably reworking a bunch of them because their initial ideas were so half assed.

[Demon6324236]

So maybe BSTs wont have to chow down on their pets afterall? :O

[Caketime]

Maybe they'll come up with more clever ways to get rid of our pets that don't involve us chewing on them. I'm a fan of zombies myself, and support recreational cannibalism in video games, but I'm not a huge fan of gnawing on Nazuna for a buff that I shouldn't even need in the first place.

[Demon6324236]

Hmm~... you just made me think of something they could give as a new 2-hour for BST, they could make it so when you use it, it gives your pet a Reraise effect, it would be a bit weird but nice, just make it like Aern's reraise, once the pet dies they come back to life moments later with Max HP. Dunno, just an idea, at least better than what we have now.

[Caketime]

I don't think they'd go for that because it would basically be a free pet every 2 hours and we would therefore use less biscuits/jugs, which is bad because RMT chefs would be making less or we would be forced to farm less. We can't have either one, because both equal more fun for players.

[Demon6324236]

Nah remember, 2-hours are being reduced to 30 minutes, then again, all the more reason to day no. ;;

[Caketime]

Well in that case definitely not, in fact I think I can see their logic with this as the ability being on a 30 minute timer would increase the frequency of pet jug usage. No matter that the ability itself is ghoulish, the point is to make us use jugs faster. They might have more success in that department by making the ability not trash, but they seem to just hate fun anymore. I don't think they'll go with the severed chocobo head stuffed in a sandwich roll and covered in delicious sauces for the ability icon either, because then we would at least get to enjoy some small aspect of this latest troll attempt from them.

[Karbuncle]

So my lack of paying attention aside, Has the THF Two Hour been introduced to test server yet so i can complain about how terrible and useless it is?

[Camate]

Greetings!

The development team has been hard at work revamping the new special abilities and I would like to give an update on their progress.

The below changes to current and new special abilities will be implemented with this week’s Test Server update.


Recast timer will be reduced from 2 hours to 1 hour (both current and new special abilities)
Recast timers will be separated


In addition to the above, the new special abilities for the below jobs will see their effects adjusted:

Warrior / white mage / black mage / samurai / summoner / blue mage

Also, as we will be making large scale changes to the below jobs' new special abilities, they will be temporarily removed from the Test Server. Once the adjustments and debugging has been completed for the new effects we will re-implement them to the Test Server.

Red mage / thief /paladin / beastmaster / bard / ranger / ninja / dragoon / corsair

*As these adjustments are currently in development, the number of them that we implement may change depending on if further adjustment is necessary or if bugs are discovered.

We are in the process of organizing the specific adjustment information for all jobs and plan on sharing it with you all tomorrow.

We would like to continue to make adjustments to this content based on feedback for the above changes, so please be sure to try everything out on the Test Server once they are implemented.

[Karbuncle]

Is Thief's new 2hour On the Test Server yet?

(P.S Thanks for the information :O! I have to ask, Um, How is it being adjusted O_____O?)

[Byrth]

You should probably adjust the Dancer 2-hour too! This thread has a ton of suggestions, so pick one!

[Hashmalum]

Greetings!

The development team has been hard at work revamping the new special abilities and I would like to give an update on their progress.

The below changes to current and new special abilities will be implemented with this week’s Test Server update.


Recast timer will be reduced from 2 hours to 1 hour (both current and new special abilities)
Recast timers will be separated


In addition to the above, the new special abilities for the below jobs will see their effects adjusted:

Red mage / thief /paladin / beastmaster / bard / ranger / ninja / dragoon / corsair
*As these adjustments are currently in development, the number of them that we implement may change depending on if further adjustment is necessary or if bugs are discovered.

We are in the process of organizing the specific adjustment information for all jobs and plan on sharing it with you all tomorrow.

We would like to continue to make adjustments to this content based on feedback for the above changes, so please be sure to try everything out on the Test Server once they are implemented.Good news, even if it wasn't the good news I was hoping for. So does the timer separation mean that the job ability recast timer shortage issue was addressed? Also, I am glad to see RDM, THF, and BST on that list, their abilities all needed changes. I'm also glad to see DRK and SMN off it, since they had decent abilities to start with and changes would probably be for the worse.

[Mirage]

Thank you, camate. Keeping the two twohours (onehours!) on separate timers was a good move, I am glad this is how it turned out. Now we no longer have to worry about one of them completely overshadowing the other, because you would be able to use both anyway.

It could also mitigate some of the impact of the recent smn and sch 2h nerfs, seeing as they would now be able to follow up with another onehour right afterwards. Well, assuming the new ones will be good. Let's hope for that!

[Karbuncle]

Good news, even if it wasn't the good news I was hoping for. So does the timer separation mean that the job ability recast timer shortage issue was addressed? Also, I am glad to see RDM, THF, and BST on that list, their abilities all needed changes. I'm also glad to see DRK and SMN off it, since they had decent abilities to start with and changes would probably be for the worse.

This is assuming by Adjusting they don't mean "Weakening" or Shortening Duration.

[Vivik]

If you're going to adjust the current 2 hours to be weaker/shorter duration don't bother making them 1 hour. With every dev post promising something grand there is always that underlying nerf just waiting to say hi.

[ManaKing]

If you're going to adjust the current 2 hours to be weaker/shorter duration don't bother making them 1 hour. With every dev post promising something grand there is always that underlying nerf just waiting to say hi.

That's called balance. They can't make us overly powerful and expect us to stick around, since nothing will be worth doing.

[Karbuncle]

Because Dodging Melee only attacks for 30 seconds every hour, Self Destructing, Or anything PLD ever does would completely turn the game on its head. Tessera Saio's would drop from Land Worms, Absolute Virtue would make sense, Legion would be useful. Gil would be Cruor and Cruor would be Rock Salt.

No. No wait, None of those 2hours are so broken they'd need a Nerf in Duration if they were halved in time. Except /MAYBE/ Bard.

But realistically we are getting ahead of ourselves, I'm aiming for a Middle ground scenario, Some will be Adjusted Negatively and some will be Adjusted Positively, But I don't think it will be all that devastating overall.

[Cowardlybabooon]

Whatever you do, don't nerf Mijin Gakure because of this.

[Babekeke]

Whatever you do, don't nerf Mijin Gakure because of this.

Trololololol! I love it.

I love even more how "Thief's new 2 hour will be adjusted" but we don't even know what it is being adjusted from, as it failed to ever even make it to the test server.

I can't help but think that the new 2 hours could maybe have been done like they did the merit WS. Group them into DD/Tank/Support by jobs, and let you merit 3-5 of them that you could use on any of the jobs in that category.

If you only play DD jobs you could choose Meikyo Shisui, Hundred Fists and Mighty strikes for example. If you only play support perhaps Chainspell, Manafont and Soul Voice (that works on all magic not just songs). If you only play Tank jobs you could choose Invincible, Perfect Dodge and Mijin Gakure. Of course if you play a mix, you'd maybe choose Mighty Strikes, Chainspell and Invincible. This, I feel, would make strategies that much more interesting.

Could maybe make them all useable by all jobs, but you can still only choose 3-5. PLD uses invincible, then pops zergressor and Mighty strikes^^

[Sasaraixx]

Camate,

Thank you for the update. There seems to be difference from the original Japanese post.

That post included the following:




その上で、以下のジョブの新SPアビリティについて、再調整を行った効果をテストサーバーに反映します。

戦士／白魔道士／黒魔道士／侍／召喚士／青魔道士

また、以下のジョブの新SPアビリティについては、大幅な変更をかけるため、一度テストサーバーから除外させていただきます。新しい効果での調整・デバッグが完了次第、順次テストサーバーに再導入を行っていきます。

赤魔道士／シーフ／ナイト／獣使い／吟遊詩人／狩人／忍者／竜騎士／コルセア

Forgive me if my translation is incorrect, but the first portion seems to indicate that the re-adjusted new special abilities for WAR, WHM, BLM, SAM, SMN and BLU will be implemented on the test server. The second portion mentions that in order to make large changes to the abilities for RDM, THF, PLD, BST, BRD, RNG, NIN, DRG, COR they will need to be excluded from the test server and re-introduced as further adjustments and debugging are completed.

[Mirage]

I want hundred chain mighty strikes shisui myself.

[Camate]

Camate,

Thank you for the update. There seems to be difference from the original Japanese post.

That post included the following:



Forgive me if my translation is incorrect, but the first portion seems to indicate that the re-adjusted new special abilities for WAR, WHM, BLM, SAM, SMN and BLU will be implemented on the test server. The second portion mentions that in order to make large changes to the abilities for RDM, THF, PLD, BST, BRD, RNG, NIN, DRG, COR they will need to be excluded from the test server and re-introduced as further adjustments and debugging are completed.

You sir are 100% correct. Apologies and thank you for pointing that out. It seems I mis-copy/pasted those lines into my document when I was translating. I edited my post (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26191-New-2-hour-Abilities?p=372358&viewfull=1#post372358) accordingly.

[Caketime]

Whatever you do, don't nerf Mijin Gakure because of this.

I hope someone with authority recognizes the sarcasm in this statement and gives NIN a 2hr that finally makes sense.

[Demon6324236]

Could maybe make them all useable by all jobs, but you can still only choose 3-5. PLD uses invincible, then pops zergressor and Mighty strikes^^

Hmm~... I know a few BLMs would would probably love Invincible+Manafont+Chainspell... 30 seconds of unlimited back to back Blizzard or Thunder Vs!

Edit:Also, I would make my RDM become
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070512105041/ffxi/images/a/ab/Goublefaupe.jpg
RDM with Chainspell, Invincible & Mighty Strikes, Req would crush shit!

[Infidi]

Aww man, someone said the SMN 2hr was bad? I thought it was friggin epic! Unless they nerfed it. :( It was pretty badass as is lol. I hope they didn't adjust it TOO much. :(

[Demon6324236]

I'm sure it was a nerf, not an upgrade or complete change. Chainspell for SMN would kick to much ass probably.

[Infidi]

Yeah. :/ Guess 9 BP in a row is too much. :( BUT, you have to have the MP pool to do it. SMN Alliance using Alex then using new 2hr, anyone? :D Epic sauce.

[Sasaraixx]

You sir are 100% correct. Apologies and thank you for pointing that out. It seems I mis-copy/pasted those lines into my document when I was translating. I edited my post (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26191-New-2-hour-Abilities?p=372358&viewfull=1#post372358) accordingly.

Anytime! :)

[Aldersyde]

Also, as we will be making large scale changes to the below jobs' new special abilities, they will be temporarily removed from the Test Server. Once the adjustments and debugging has been completed for the new effects we will re-implement them to the Test Server.

Red mage / thief /paladin / beastmaster / bard / ranger / ninja / dragoon / corsair

When you say "large scale changes" I hope you mean the devs went back to the drawing board altogether and came up with something different, and useful, for bst.

[Yinnyth]

Hmm~... I know a few BLMs would would probably love Invincible+Manafont+Chainspell... 30 seconds of unlimited back to back Blizzard or Thunder Vs!

Edit:Also, I would make my RDM become
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070512105041/ffxi/images/a/ab/Goublefaupe.jpg
RDM with Chainspell, Invincible & Mighty Strikes, Req would crush shit!

That's old-school Goubles. You can tell because there's no repop fomor or Yagudo behind him. Old-school Goubles eat your family and poop on your dreams.

[Vivik]

That's called balance. They can't make us overly powerful and expect us to stick around, since nothing will be worth doing.

The point is that reducing them to one hour makes almost no difference at all when you look at how most two hours are used. It really has nothing to do with balance. By reducing the effectiveness of the "one hours" they are in effect making them useless for anything. How often do you use your 2hr?

The real issue here (whether they will admit it or not) is the development teams obvious lack experience doing anything in the game. It's pretty evident by the choices they make when nerfing things in general. Sometimes I wonder if they even play at all anymore...

[Demon6324236]

How often do you use your 2hr?Unless I am doing ADL... I use Chainspell maybe once or twice a week... give or take. If doing ADL, once or twice a day, depending on if my 2-hour is reset by a COR, which frees me up for another use.

[Demon6324236]

That's old-school Goubles. You can tell because there's no repop fomor or Yagudo behind him. Old-school Goubles eat your family and poop on your dreams.Sounds like my kinda fun! :P

[Kristal]

Also, as we will be making large scale changes to the below jobs' new special abilities, they will be temporarily removed from the Test Server. Once the adjustments and debugging has been completed for the new effects we will re-implement them to the Test Server.

Red mage / thief /paladin / beastmaster / bard / ranger / ninja / dragoon / corsair

No changes for puppetmaster?? I thought the playerbase was clear on it being a complete joke...

[Xilk]

Thank you very much for the update! I am looking forward to seeing what has been decided for the additional 2-hour abilities.!

[Byrth]

Heh, Mighty Strikes could be used with a new JA that makes all of your swings DA?

... I small a WAR nerf incoming!

[Alerith]

Normally, my most useful 2hr is Invincible on PLD. I use it for OSHIT moments.

Then I usually get hit by Thundaga V.

[Mirage]

Where's your aegis, bro?

[Camate]

Greetings!

We are still organizing the information for how the effects of the new special abilities will change; however, I would like to go ahead and share the changes that were already implemented on the Test Server:


Warrior
The effect will be changed to the following:
"While the effect is active, grants a 100% chance of activating Double Attack.” (Can be applied towards weapon skills as well)


Black mage
In addition to the original effect, it will now also grant a large increase to magic accuracy.


Samurai
In addition to the original effect, it will now also grant TP when evading attacks.


Summoner
In addition to the original effect, when using the ability MP will be completely restored.


Blue mage
In addition to the original effect, the recast timer for spells that can be used under Unbridled Learning will be removed.



*Currently the ability and status icon explanations have not changed, but the above changes to the effects have been reflected in the update.

Please test them all out and let us know your thoughts!

[Babekeke]

Good positive updates at least.
WAR is still kinda 'meh', unless people are actually going to make a separate gear set for whilst under this effect, but it's better than it was. Particularly Ukon owners getting TP a little faster, and an extra hit on every Ukko's.
SAM and SMN I'm surprised about because they were pretty dam good to start with.
BLM is acceptable, and BLU was required. Neither are particularly special though.

[Demon6324236]

Greetings!

We are still organizing the information for how the effects of the new special abilities will change; however, I would like to go ahead and share the changes that were already implemented on the Test Server:


Warrior
The effect will be changed to the following:
"While the effect is active, grants a 100% chance of activating Double Attack.” (Can be applied towards weapon skills as well)


Black mage
In addition to the original effect, it will now also grant a large increase to magic accuracy.


Samurai
In addition to the original effect, it will now also grant TP when evading attacks.


Summoner
In addition to the original effect, when using the ability MP will be completely restored.


Blue mage
In addition to the original effect, the recast timer for spells that can be used under Unbridled Learning will be removed.



*Currently the ability and status icon explanations have not changed, but the above changes to the effects have been reflected in the update.

Please test them all out and let us know your thoughts!

WAR = Good
BLM = Change it to MAB
SAM = Wasn't this good enough already? I mean really, it was already better than any other 2-hour basically, and your giving it even more?!
SMN = I thought this was pretty badass already too, but this makes sense to change, wish you did the same to Chainspell though seeing as its basically the same thing, just altered to fit the jobs needs...
BLU = I guess ok? Idk, not a BLU, never used the UL spells really because of their bad rep, so cant tell ya how I perceive it.

Camate~ is there any chance you could let me know what will happen to my RDM 2-hours? If you can tell me my buffs get +50% duration & potency Ill give you a big ol Savory Shank! I know how you King Behemoths love those! ~_^

[Motenten]

War seems solid. There are certainly scenarios where it easily beats out Mighty Strikes, while in other situations Mighty Strikes would win. I can't see any complaints about it.

Blm seems situationally useful, for mobs with extremely high resist rates. Certainly an alternative to Manafont in times where it's a waste to cast the spells even if they're free.

Sam already seemed like it was near the top of the new abilities, but this seems fine when compared to the revamped War (as opposed to the pathetic original War).

Smn is a nice boost, and appropriate. Fill up the MP pool at the start so that you can actually use it, sort of like giving Sam 300 TP at the start of Meikyo.

Blu's improvement is similar to Tabula Rasa's removal of strategem reuse timers, and likewise appropriate for its purpose. As an SP it seems perfectly fine; the only issue is the value of actually using the UL spells.

[Vandheer]

Thank you for the update on these Camate! I am ecstatic about the 2-hours being reduced to 1-hours so they can see more play. I am also extremely interested and optemistic in what the results of stacking origional 2-hours (1-hours) with the new ones. If they can indeed be stacked... :rolleyes:

The changes to BLM and BLU look good, but well see how much magic acc this will be giving BLM. SMN getting their MP fully restored is nifty, maybe with the changes to Embrava giving MP we will start to see RDM and SCH magic burning with the help of Chainspell + this SMN 2-hour (1-hour)?... Just a thought. :p

I'm most I'm shocked about the buffs to SAM but it will still depend on the TP gained when evading, if its 1-3 like with some of the SAM gear that gives tp when you take a hit I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make. However with 2-hours (1-hours) having separate timers Meikyo Shisui + the damage boost and evading provided by this 2-hour (1-hour) will be impressive.

Warriors you guys lucked out with this being far better then your previous new 2-hour (1-hour now) proposed by SE, even if you have your double attack capped out. :D WAR/SAM with 100% double attack, its already high TP gain + this = WS spamage. Not to mention that this and Mighty Strikes will be on a 1-hour timer and can be stacked with Mighty Strikes! This will result in multiple Ukko's Fury with 4 hits rather then 2 with all 4 landing crits. Would still like to know the duration of this new 2-hour (1-hour).

Last point id like to touch on is, when can we expect updates for the next batch of changed 2-hours (1-hours) including: RDM, THF, PLD, BST, BRD, RNG, NIN, DRG, and COR? And on a slight side note to my piers in the forums... Will you call 2-hour abilities 2-hours or 1-hours now? :o

[Demon6324236]

To me they are 2-hours, have been since I started & will probably continue to be called that by me unless something more catchy comes along, 1-hours doesn't sound quite right, I mean if anything it sounds like they should be called hour abilities, and that just doesn't sound good, kinda bleh. Special Abilities sounds to eh, formal or just long, so need a new term before I plan to stop calling them 2-hours.

[Motenten]

'SP' abilities.

[Demon6324236]

Yeah but that doesn't sound to good either imo. :(

[Byrth]

SP stands for Special, I think, so you could call them that if you want?

I'd recommend re-thinking the Dancer 2-hour too. It's approximately the same as the BLU one (now) except that we're limited to using three flourishes and they can cast as many spells as they want.

[Vandheer]

I'd recommend re-thinking the Dancer 2-hour too. It's approximately the same as the BLU one (now) except that we're limited to using three flourishes and they can cast as many spells as they want.

I don't think the DNC ability will be limited to 3 finishing moves, as far as I'm aware the DNC ability will grant 5 finishing moves while reseting all the recast timers. In addition I believe it will not consume finishing moves for the duration of the effect allowing DNC to spam so long as their timers will allow them to do so and then still have 5 finishing moves afterwords. Information pulled from bellow.


DNC: Grants maximum amount of Finishing Moves and the recast time of all Flourishes will be reset. Additionally, while the ability is in effect, Finishing Moves will not be consumed.

Cut out the coding from the quoted text to spare myself the hassle of sorting through it.

[Byrth]

Well, they didn't list it as adjusted and the previous release was limited to 3 Flourishes (not Finishing Moves).

Edit: I just went to the test server and confirmed it. Grand Pas still wears off after three Flourishes.

[Infidi]

Ok maybe I'm misreading but "separate timers" means they BOTH can be used right? Or does it just override the other 2hr when you use it?

[Vandheer]

Well, they didn't list it as adjusted and the previous release was limited to 3 Flourishes (not Finishing Moves).

Edit: I just went to the test server and confirmed it. Grand Pas still wears off after three Flourishes.

Oh? Then I agree that it should not be limited to the amount of flourishes the DNC has. I much prefer the unlimited finishing moves for the duration of the ability.


Ok maybe I'm misreading but "separate timers" means they BOTH can be used right? Or does it just override the other 2hr when you use it?

I read it the same way as you Infidi, I do hope that these abilities won't overwrite one another.

[Karbuncle]

Oh hey :O! That WAR 2hour is the one i suggested.

Coincidence? Absolutely!

Will i take it as such? Not a chance.

Hell yah an Idea i suggested got implemented.

[Raksha]

Greetings!

We are still organizing the information for how the effects of the new special abilities will change; however, I would like to go ahead and share the changes that were already implemented on the Test Server:



Warrior
The effect will be changed to the following:
"While the effect is active, grants a 100% chance of activating Double Attack.” (Can be applied towards weapon skills as well)


Black mage
In addition to the original effect, it will now also grant a large increase to magic accuracy.


Samurai
In addition to the original effect, it will now also grant TP when evading attacks.


Summoner
In addition to the original effect, when using the ability MP will be completely restored.


Blue mage
In addition to the original effect, the recast timer for spells that can be used under Unbridled Learning will be removed.




*Currently the ability and status icon explanations have not changed, but the above changes to the effects have been reflected in the update.

Please test them all out and let us know your thoughts!

Camate would you please ask the dev team if they are still considering being able to merit these recasts down to 30 minutes? And could you also ask if this will apply to the old SP abilities as well as the new ones?

For reference here's the original post:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26191-New-2-hour-Abilities?p=359060&viewfull=1#post359060


Thanks in advance!

[Infidi]

Oh? Then I agree that it should not be limited to the amount of flourishes the DNC has. I much prefer the unlimited finishing moves for the duration of the ability.



I read it the same way as you Infidi, I do hope that these abilities won't overwrite one another.

Just tried the WAR ones. They don't overwrite each other ^^. Can be used at same time. Awwwwesome. :D

[SpankWustler]

Warrior
The effect will be changed to the following:
"While the effect is active, grants a 100% chance of activating Double Attack.” (Can be applied towards weapon skills as well)


Black mage
In addition to the original effect, it will now also grant a large increase to magic accuracy.


Samurai
In addition to the original effect, it will now also grant TP when evading attacks.


Summoner
In addition to the original effect, when using the ability MP will be completely restored.


Blue mage
In addition to the original effect, the recast timer for spells that can be used under Unbridled Learning will be removed.



Truly, good news for everyone, and not even the kind of "good news" that Professor Farnsworth might deliver.

The revised Warrior ability is as close to perfect as any alternative or compliment to Mighty Strikes will ever be, I think. Sometimes one is better, sometimes the other is better, using both at once will be beastly if the plan to keep recasts separate does not change; perfect.

The rest of the changes are not as drastic, but each change compliments the purpose of the ability changed and adds usefulness. In the case of the Blue Mage SP, the change brings it from "unusable" to "very situational" which I think is a relatively large change.

If some of the other new SP abilities at the bottom of the pile, such as Dancer and Beastmaster, were to receive changes or additions comparable to these, that would be super-awesome.

[Raucent]

.... i gotta wonder why the heck is SAM's getting boosted even further wasn't Perfect Dodge/dodge elemental attacks/Attack boost enough why do they need another bonus with it....

[saevel]

Just tried the WAR ones. They don't overwrite each other ^^. Can be used at same time. Awwwwesome. :D

This is exactly what I thought when I read it. Mighty Strikes, 100% DA, Resolution spammage GO!

[Caketime]

Oh hey :O! That WAR 2hour is the one i suggested.

Coincidence? Absolutely!

Will i take it as such? Not a chance.

Hell yah an Idea i suggested got implemented.

You win the prize! A Taco! :3

Dear SE,

Thank you so much for taking back Chocoburger, every BST seriously appreciates this.

[Afania]

Camate would you please ask the dev team if they are still considering being able to merit these recasts down to 30 minutes? And could you also ask if this will apply to the old SP abilities as well as the new ones?

For reference here's the original post:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26191-New-2-hour-Abilities?p=359060&viewfull=1#post359060


Thanks in advance!

This, what's the point to have 1hr recast when we'd still need to reset them between events and event only last for 30 min.

[Motenten]

Just tried the WAR ones. They don't overwrite each other ^^. Can be used at same time.

Hmm. Honestly, the ability to use them simultaneously makes me concerned that the combo could be considered overpowered. While I'm sure it's lots of fun, it seems like it could put war -too- far ahead, given the right config.

[ManaKing]

Hmm. Honestly, the ability to use them simultaneously makes me concerned that the combo could be considered overpowered. While I'm sure it's lots of fun, it seems like it could put war -too- far ahead, given the right config.

What you mean WAR being WAR? I don't understand what you could possibly mean?

~.^

[Babekeke]

This is exactly what I thought when I read it. Mighty Strikes, 100% DA, Resolution spammage GO!

Is it the norm to have a 6 or 7-hit when using resolution? ~53STP req'd for a 6-hit probably even less with guarantee'd DA on the WS and without needing DA gear for TP phase that's probably easy to get, but...

Perma double-attack prefers an odd number of hit setup (5 or 7) or you're spilling over on TP. If 7-hit is the norm for a res setup with ragna then this is a great option for ragna wars, but Ukon wars will be losing out unless they specifically gear for a 5-hit just for the duration of this ability. Mainly by dropping some DA geat for sTP.

2 attack rounds between WS is a vast improvement over 4-5 (4, assuming DA would usually proc once, 5 without), but not gearing for a 5-hit and still needing 3 attack rounds instead of the old 4-5 isn't a vast improvement. Obviously the extra hit on WS is good though.

[Metaking]

hmmm blus sounds nice but they probably also need to lower all the magical UL spells casting timers down to melee spells casting times as well.... as well as add some spells broken enough to be worth spamming >.>;

[Babekeke]

hmmm blus sounds nice but they probably also need to lower all the magical UL spells casting timers down to melee spells casting times as well.... as well as add some spells broken enough to be worth spamming >.>;

What's the duration of the new SP?

[Demon6324236]

One thing they need to fix so far as I know with RDM at least is duration. Even if you can stack Chainspell with the new one I would really hate to have to stack them just to fully buff myself in time.

[DarkMarc009]

MNK = ewwww

[Cljader1]

Congratulations wars!...umm SE can you allow drks new special ability to drain on weaponskills??

[Raucent]

With the special abilities to overlap such as WARS makes me wonder if they can tweak DRKS if both act like an EN-style attack en-drain or en-abs-tp there will be zero way for both to be active at the same time as enspell type effects can only have one active at any time.

[Loziel]

The new War ability when stacked with mighty strikes basically removes all other DD from the equation it pulls so far ahead. Good balance!

Warriorfantasy 11 is coming!

While we are on the subject of the abilities, for Drg please give us something like zero jump recast timers for 30-60 seconds and then we are talking, nobody cares about wyvern buffing unless its like primeval brew levels of power and we know that isnt going to happen

[Siiri]

The new War ability when stacked with mighty strikes basically removes all other DD from the equation it pulls so far ahead. Good balance!

Warriorfantasy 11 is coming!

While we are on the subject of the abilities, for Drg please give us something like zero jump recast timers for 30-60 seconds and then we are talking, nobody cares about wyvern buffing unless its like primeval brew levels of power and we know that isnt going to happen

Seriously who is making the topic about War being so sickeningly overpowered? Why did SE even nerf Embrava and PD if they just gonna destroy all other DD except War? I guess we should wait until Monday.

[Demon6324236]

Well really, SAM has the best SP in the game with the new one, even if WAR can pump out tons of damage SAM is going to basically have Perfect Defense but with alot more attached to it, which goes back to the philosophy, "The best DD, is a living DD." DRK with its TP power should be awesome if it drains enough, but competing with that WAR power will be hard, they just gave WAR the ability to knock their hit build down easy, which is what the TP drain effect was basically doing but while screwing the mob as well. MNK's is defense & unusable without hate basically and the DRG power is just bleh! So in the end, I would say WAR is ahead of everyone else in zerging power, but SAM is ahead of everyone else is surviving the zerg, and everyone but those 2 jobs are getting kicked in the groin except DRK if the effect is powerful enough.

[Mirage]

Here's a question to Camate and Co. Will DRK's TP drain work even if your attacks deal 0 damage, due to a physical shield or something like that? I really think it should, because even if WAR gets to build TP a lot faster with their new SP, DRKs could get an edge against certain mobs that negate physical damage, by being able to drain a lot of TP while the other melees are unable to gain TP outside of sources of Regain. They could then proceed to unleash a high TP WS right as the physical shield wore off, and the mob would at this point also be left with considerably less TP than it had to begin with.

If implemented right, this could allow a DRK to practically stop an enemy TP moves while the enemy resisted physical damage. It would still gain TP from spells and other magical damage, but this might be low enough for the TP drain to eat it away faster than it is accumulated. Sounds pretty useful to me, in certain situations.

[Luvbunny]

Please stop saying SAM have the best abilities!!! SAM is the worst job of all with the worst 2 hours new and old. All the new 2 hours are awful, they are badly designed, and can be improved with some abilities are in worse position than ever. Stop saying job xyz is overpowered, let the lesson of Embrava and Perfect Defense make us be the smarter person and stop praising a great design idea when they have one. When a job is working as intended, keep it quiet, keep it silent, and never share this fact and posting videos on youtube. Or face the same fate that befallen RDM. When your jug pets are working as intended and is indeed awesome, don't say a word, or suffer the wrath that hit Falcor and Dipper Yully. This is a message to all of you puppetmaster out there, KEEP IT QUIET!

[Siiri]

The point SE pushes is balance, but yet they have no idea on how to balance the jobs. It'l ok if WAR is best DD they have been for awhile. It isn't ok if they are so far ahead of other DDs no other DDs are welcome.

[Caketime]

Warriorfantasy 11 is coming!

This.

I thought group content couldn't get any more boring, but just wait until everyone is WAR or GTFO. On the bright side I'm really glad my one and only constant companion already has WAR at 99, so my gameplay is going to consist mainly of collecting SCH pieces and piling up gil until the expansion drops. I'm not looking forward to the day when this game's only source of fun is being an oppressive dick on the Auction House. Well, that and stealing NMs from idiots. Still, that day is fast approaching.

[Cljader1]

Well really, SAM has the best SP in the game with the new one, even if WAR can pump out tons of damage SAM is going to basically have Perfect Defense but with alot more attached to it, which goes back to the philosophy, "The best DD, is a living DD." DRK with its TP power should be awesome if it drains enough, but competing with that WAR power will be hard, they just gave WAR the ability to knock their hit build down easy, which is what the TP drain effect was basically doing but while screwing the mob as well. MNK's is defense & unusable without hate basically and the DRG power is just bleh! So in the end, I would say WAR is ahead of everyone else in zerging power, but SAM is ahead of everyone else is surviving the zerg, and everyone but those 2 jobs are getting kicked in the groin except DRK if the effect is powerful enough.

Ukko's Fury +Crit +DA enough said! Not to mention the aftermath on emp would lead to a critical quad attack procs, and a war tp is building 2x -4x times faster from those procs, this kicks the shit out of drks and all other dd's, How is a en-tp drain going to keep up with all that?? Not to hate on wars but damn SE drk's cant get a BW fixed or get our new SP to proc on ws??

[Luvbunny]

Dark Knight could definitely get some adjustments to make the job more on par with Warrior and Monk as melee DD. I think the image of Dark dual wield kraken club destroying their Sea NMs is still giving SE some nightmares, along with a bunch of RDMs posting youtube videos of their accomplishment. Seriously, if players are able to come up with sound strategy that actually employing certain jobs strong points, they should be congratulated and not being seen as exploiting the game. You want to make a game where people want to play and able to get somewhere.

[Raksha]

There's basically zero chance that this new 2hr will hit the live servers in its current form.

Have your fun on the test server while you can.

[Camate]

Greetings everyone!

I have a bit of follow-up information to share about a couple of the new special abilities.

Warrior
The new special ability’s effect duration is 30 seconds, and for multi-hit weapon skills, double attack will be calculated as usual so it will not be applied to every hit. We encourage you to try this out on the Test Server in a variety of conditions.


White mage
We plan on adjusting the balance between the effect and the duration as we monitor test trends; however, if we extend one aspect the other would have to be reduced somewhat. Effect wise this would mean the types of status ailments that are resisted. With that said we would like to hear your feedback on this ability.


Black mage
While this ability will not give large increases to the maximum damage dealt from a single spell, it will make it possible to increase the average damage output by gaining a magical accuracy boost that is on the same level as Elemental Seal.

Also, this ability will benefit not only elemental magic, but enfeebling magic and dark magic as well. In terms of increasing damage, we are currently looking into making it easier to land elemental magic by removing half-resists or via other methods. (However, removing half-resists for enfeebling magic would be too much of a boon, so it will be necessary to make adjustments to limit it to elemental magic.)


Blue mage
As we are planning to add spells to Unbridled Learning, in the future as the array of spells grow, the possibilities of this ability will also grow as well.


As always, please test out these abilities as much as possible on the Test Server and continue to give your feedback! We will be checking on the other questions we have seen in this thread, so until we get a response from the development team, sit tight!

[Byrth]

I'd recommend making the White Mage 2-hour give immunity to Charm, Petrify, Death, Terror, and Dispel. It should last for 2 minutes.

[Mirage]

Sounds good to me. At least 95% resistance, in either case.

[Cowardlybabooon]

I'd recommend making the White Mage 2-hour give immunity to Charm, Petrify, Death, Terror, and Dispel. It should last for 2 minutes.
Include Stun with terror.

[noirin]

As long as they don't pull a Sacrosanctity on WHM's new 2hr [1hr?] and make it only last for 1 hit or 30 seconds. If i recall the original design of the new ability was suppose to make your party highly resistant, if not immune, to enfeebles. As Byrth said, it should make you highly resistant to everything he mentioned [it's suppose to be a 2hr afterall]. 2 minutes of duration sounds pretty decent, i can't imagine more than a handful of fights that would last much longer than that, where this would come importantly into play.

[SpankWustler]

White mage
We plan on adjusting the balance between the effect and the duration as we monitor test trends; however, if we extend one aspect the other would have to be reduced somewhat. Effect wise this would mean the types of status ailments that are resisted. With that said we would like to hear your feedback on this ability.

Unless the ability will add a large amount of resistance to some of the nastier status ailments, such as Charm or out-and-out Death such as from the spell, it's hard for me to even start thinking about the duration as something important.

Ideally, I'd like something like this:


I'd recommend making the White Mage 2-hour give immunity to Charm, Petrify, Death, Terror, and Dispel. It should last for 2 minutes.

[Helel]

Well it needs to differentiate itself from perfect defense in some way. If it doesn't have the -dt then it needs to nullify extra effects like Byrth mentioned. It should, at the very very least, nullify every effect that PD does. Charm absolutely needs to be nullified, same for petrify, etc.

[Mirage]

Yeah, the new WHM special ability would be pretty weak if it doesn't protect against more status effects than Perfect Defence currently does. Considering PD adds an enfeebling resistance and damage resistance for up to a minute, the new WHM ability should at least have a duration close to that, and resistance to more enfeebling effects than P.Def because it doesn't give any sort of damage resistance.

If it only protects against status effects that are normally easy to deal with, such as silence, paralyze and slow, it won't be very strong, and even less useful if used against a mob that doesn't even use more than a few different debuffs.

Will this status effect resistance also work against auras? I think it should, at least partially.

Now that I think about it, a resistance to Dispel sounds very good. I hope this happens.

[Hashmalum]

White mage
We plan on adjusting the balance between the effect and the duration as we monitor test trends; however, if we extend one aspect the other would have to be reduced somewhat. Effect wise this would mean the types of status ailments that are resisted. With that said we would like to hear your feedback on this ability.Definitely needs to be immune to all the totally incapacitating statuses: Sleep/Nightmare Sleep, Stun, Petrify, Terror, Charm, and the cheapest of the cheap, Death. It's not a status (but then Dispel isn't either), but is there any chance of doing anything to prevent ability timer reset? Also, does Dispel protection affect status absorbtion like Glavoid, etc. use?

Also, speaking of Charm, there was something mentioned a long time ago about WHM getting a Charm removal spell. What ever happened with that?


Blue mage
As we are planning to add spells to Unbridled Knowledge, in the future as the array of spells grow, the possibilities of this ability will also grow as well.In other words, "Trust us, it might not be good now but it will be good later". No thanks. How about improving the existing spells first? While there are still numerous NM families that spells could be gleaned from, if they are the same quality of most of the existing NM spells they won't be worthwhile.

[Mirage]

In regards to charm, is there any way to actually resist charm? I mean, does it have an element so that you can stack elemental resist gear and hope to avoid it, or is gear which specifically states "resist charm" the only way to avoid it?

I think charm should be affected by resistances like any other magically inflicted status, if this isn't already the case. It is pretty dumb to let a monster that is over 20 levels below you be able to charm you, and even dumber for them to be able to keep the charm on you for a long time, like it currently feels like they are able to.

Also, whm should get bardarkra and barlightra.

Now, less off topic:

Camate: If Unbridled Learning spells currently are so bad that being able to continuously use them during the new Special ability still doesn't make the ability good, I think that is a pretty strong indication that the unbridled learning spells currently just aren't very good at all. Considering UL spells can't be used very often outside of this new SP ability, perhaps the dev team should just admit that the spells aren't very good, and improve a lot of the current ones as well.

If UL spells already were strong enough for it to warrant the one spell per 5 minutes limit they have, the new SP ability would probably already be good, and we wouldn't be having this issue at all!

[Hashmalum]

In regards to charm, is there any way to actually resist charm? I mean, does it have an element so that you can stack elemental resist gear and hope to avoid it, or is gear which specifically states "resist charm" the only way to avoid it?Charm is light element, which is why BSTs used to use Apollo Staves back in the day when charmed monsters were actually good for anything at all.

[Mirage]

But is the BST charm the exact same ability as the charm used by mobs? I'm not sure. After all, how often were you able to charm level 75 mobs when you were a 55bst? Mobs on the other hand, seem to have no problems AoE charming 10 lv99 players for near maximum duration even if the mobs themselves are just around lv80. That's why I'm wondering if the two function the same way, and if there are any "naturally progressing stats" that increase resist rates for it.

[Tennotsukai]

So best news ever. I am excited to see new blu spells. Hopefully, you guys are passing on the developers our wishlist for blu spells in the blu forums.

I am also taking away from that statement on blu that there will eventually be more non-UL spells as well. I'm rather excited.

Thank you, Camate!

[Vagrua]

So best news ever. I am excited to see new blu spells. Hopefully, you guys are passing on the developers our wishlist for blu spells in the blu forums.

I am also taking away from that statement on blu that there will eventually be more non-UL spells as well. I'm rather excited.

Thank you, Camate!

I wouldn't hold him to it. (no offense) He's posted about gear adding pet TH to make up for BST pets and Mog House expansion in Storage to all areas in the past without delivering. Just saying, maybe it's not good to get your hopes up so you may not be let down as badly. Not that new blu spells wouldn't be welcomed.

[Mefuki]

I'm surprised any BLUs thought we wouldn't get any more enemy skills. That's like worrying that the other mage jobs won't get any more spells, BRD any more songs or DNC any new JAs. It's an integral part of those jobs to get new tools.

[Xilk]

But is the BST charm the exact same ability as the charm used by mobs? I'm not sure. After all, how often were you able to charm level 75 mobs when you were a 55bst? Mobs on the other hand, seem to have no problems AoE charming 10 lv99 players for near maximum duration even if the mobs themselves are just around lv80. That's why I'm wondering if the two function the same way, and if there are any "naturally progressing stats" that increase resist rates for it.

Player charm an monster charm are probably not exactly the same. For example' they only charm players and we have a strange mix of some mobs we can charm and some we cannot.

However, to answer your question' charm compares the charisma of the best to the charisma of the mob. I've tested this using drk/best in controlled situations.

I'm fairly confident that stacking chr would help resist charm from mobs.

[Raksha]

I wouldn't hold him to it. (no offense) He's posted about gear adding pet TH to make up for BST pets and Mog House expansion in Storage to all areas in the past without delivering. Just saying, maybe it's not good to get your hopes up so you may not be let down as badly. Not that new blu spells wouldn't be welcomed.


Not to mention getting rid of the cutscene for entering the moghouse in ru lude gardens.

[Tennotsukai]

Expansions usually equal new abilities and spells so I believe that seeing that statement only helps any hope there is, but I guess nothing is actually set in stone.

[Camate]

I’m back again for one more quick note regarding corsair!

Currently on the Test Server, Wild Card does not reset the cool down timers for new special abilities; however, we will be addressing this in the future.

Since resetting the cool down timers for both current and new special abilities at the same time when rolling either a 5 or 6 would be a pretty big bonus, we are looking into making it so that cool down timers for both abilities will only be reset at the same time when rolling a 6.

[Byrth]

Wild Card nerf incoming. >^,^<!

Fixed that for you!

Currently, people use Wild Card to reset their SP ability (2-hour) for strategic reasons. If you make it so we can only reliably reset our current SP Ability (2-hour) if we happen to roll a 6 (instead of a 5 or 6), then you have made Wild Card less useful.

[Vivik]

I’m back again for one more quick note regarding corsair!

Currently on the Test Server, Wild Card does not reset the cool down timers for new special abilities; however, we will be addressing this in the future.

Since resetting the cool down timers for both current and new special abilities at the same time when rolling either a 5 or 6 would be a pretty big bonus, we are looking into making it so that cool down timers for both abilities will only be reset at the same time when rolling a 6.

I would like to know if you mean just the new ones are reset with a 6 or if this includes the original 2 hours also. You guys need to be a bit more clear when talking about things you are changing.

[Kincard]

Fixed that for you!

Currently, people use Wild Card to reset their SP ability (2-hour) for strategic reasons. If you make it so we can only reliably reset our current SP Ability (2-hour) if we happen to roll a 6 (instead of a 5 or 6), then you have made Wild Card less useful.

It sounds like he's saying you only get a double-reset for both SPs if you roll a 6, and 5 will reset a single one. Dunno if it just picks at random or what.

[Kriegsgott]

I would like to know if you mean just the new ones are reset with a 6 or if this includes the original 2 hours also. You guys need to be a bit more clear when talking about things you are changing.

SE is easy to understand because its always the part which hurts more

[Camate]

It sounds like he's saying you only get a double-reset for both SPs if you roll a 6, and 5 will reset a single one. Dunno if it just picks at random or what.

Correct. Rolling a 5 would reset the current special ability cool down timer, and rolling a 6 would reset the cool down timers for both current and new special abilities. We are not taking anything away from Wild Card, we are only factoring in the new special abilities.

[Byrth]

Correct. Rolling a 5 would reset the current special ability cool down timer, and rolling a 6 would reset the cool down timers for both current and new special abilities. We are not taking anything away from Wild Card, we are only factoring in the new special abilities.

Excellent! This is much better.

[Vivik]

Correct. Rolling a 5 would reset the current special ability cool down timer, and rolling a 6 would reset the cool down timers for both current and new special abilities. We are not taking anything away from Wild Card, we are only factoring in the new special abilities.

Thank you for clarifying.

[Malthar]

What about giving corsairs bounty shot? If anyone is a dirty, rotten, thieving scoundrel it should be a corsair.

[Raksha]

So the jobs whose current 2hr is useless and will only ever use the new 2hr only have a 1/6 chance of getting a reset instead of 2/6 for jobs that use the current 2hr only?

How about a 5 will reset one of the two at random (so if you've only used one a 5 will reset it regardless if its the current or new 2hr) And the 6 will reset both?

[Vivik]

How about a 5 will reset one of the two at random

No Thanks.

[Babekeke]

So the jobs whose current 2hr is useless and will only ever use the new 2hr only have a 1/6 chance of getting a reset instead of 2/6 for jobs that use the current 2hr only?

How about a 5 will reset one of the two at random (so if you've only used one a 5 will reset it regardless if its the current or new 2hr) And the 6 will reset both?

Future content will be based around only using jobs whose new and old 2 hours are both useful, so it's irrelevant.

WAR, SMN and SAM are in, DRG, BLU and RNG are out, DRK likely in, but can't remember what their new JA is or if it's even been clarified.

[MarkovChain]

At one moment I thought COR was no longer useful even at level 1. Rejoice COR lol.

[Kristal]

Future content will be based around only using jobs whose new and old 2 hours are both useful, so it's irrelevant.

WAR, SMN and SAM are in, DRG, BLU and RNG are out, DRK likely in, but can't remember what their new JA is or if it's even been clarified.

PUP is out as well. SP1 (Overdrive) has a lousy duration for such a mediocre SP, and SP2 (Heady Artifice) is mostly JA filler (as if we didn't have enough JAs already.) I'm actually surprised they didn't add self-destruct to SP2.

[saevel]

Excellent! This is much better.

Honestly with them being on a 60 to 30m recast timer, spamming WC shouldn't be needed much anymore. Maybe for a lucky hail mary after a potential wipe or something.

[Okipuit]

Hello,

Thank you for all the feedback, everyone! I would like to share some information that we received from the Development Team:


Here's a question to Camate and Co. Will DRK's TP drain work even if your attacks deal 0 damage, due to a physical shield or something like that?.

The absorbed amount of TP is not based on damage, so as long as you hit, even if the damage is 0, the ability will still absorb TP. To find out how much TP and in what cases, Please try this ability out on the test server to find out how much TP is absorbed and in what cases, and let us know your feedback.


I'd recommend making the White Mage 2-hour give immunity to Charm, Petrify, Death, Terror, and Dispel. It should last for 2 minutes.

We will be adding Dispel to the list of resists.

Whether we expand out to other status ailments depends on our discussions, so it would be really appreciated if you can let us know the specifics of why having a certain resistance would be good while keeping balance in mind so we can look into this. Of course having resistance against everything would be beneficial, but it's not the best course to just ignore how this will affect everything else.

While we can't go over every comment/question because the SP ability adjustments are still in progress, we are still reviewing your feedback and taking them into consideration so please keep them coming!

[Raksha]

We will be adding Dispel to the list of resists.
Whether we expand out to other status ailments depends on our discussions, so it would be really appreciated if you can let us know the specifics of why having a certain resistance would be good while keeping balance in mind so we can look into this. Of course having resistance against everything would be beneficial, but it's not the best course to just ignore how this will affect everything else.



We need petrification/death/terror resistance because you guys are nerfing PD without removing the abilities that require us to use PD.

[Calatilla]

Add resistance to enfeebles we don't have a counter-agent to, you can counter petra spam with barstone+barpetrify but there's no spell that protects you from an instant death TP move, unless you can stun it before it goes off. Terror usually doesn't last very long but a higher resistance to it would help to bring down its overall duration if it does land, and we need a resistance to charm or a spell to remove it.

[Kalilla]

I would like to make a suggestion for the new WHM SP.

Why not just follow your own thoughts for Perfect Defense?

Make the new WHM SP based off the players Healing Magic skill. At certain tiers you'll be able to make your party members immune to a new status ailment. For the status ailments you're unsure about giving to the new SP, put them at the very top of the list requiring the most Healing Magic Skill to gain immunity to it. I'm sure your team could figure out a proper balance of required skill levels for this, and it would also make players happy that we have the ability to do it even if it might not be possible to achieve the required skill for some status ailments until we're well into the new expansion when new gear comes out.

Please think about it, I think this is the balance that would fit WHM's SP perfectly.

[SpankWustler]

We will be adding Dispel to the list of resists.

Whether we expand out to other status ailments depends on our discussions, so it would be really appreciated if you can let us know the specifics of why having a certain resistance would be good while keeping balance in mind so we can look into this. Of course having resistance against everything would be beneficial, but it's not the best course to just ignore how this will affect everything else.

I'm very happy to hear a resistance to Dispel is up in there.

I would say Death (instant death, as inflicted by Death Prophet or the additional effect of Tera Slash) is the one thing I would most like to resist. That funky junk can ruin nights; Raise is the closest thing to a -na spell for it, and Arise is the closest thing to a bar-spell to reduce its duration.

After that, Charm and Terror are distant seconds. They're less severe than instant death, but share the lack of a bar-spell or -na spell.

[noirin]

i recall at one point they claimed WHM would get a -na spell to counter charm.with it missing i would also agree that Death and CHarm are the other 2 i'd like to see resisted.Death is just cheap [as i'm pretty sure without gear it can't miss,period] and charm is just annoying,mainly since a large portion of still threatening mobs that use it, tend to use -ga instead.

[Vagrua]

We need petrification/death/terror resistance because you guys are nerfing PD without removing the abilities that require us to use PD.

It seems adjustments don't always balance out in our favor.


i recall at one point they claimed WHM would get a -na spell to counter charm.with it missing i would also agree that Death and CHarm are the other 2 i'd like to see resisted.Death is just cheap [as i'm pretty sure without gear it can't miss,period] and charm is just annoying,mainly since a large portion of still threatening mobs that use it, tend to use -ga instead.

I was curious about this and did some backtracking. The only solid rep post I could find was this:


Adding a new spell that removes Charm from a party member. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11485-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-Job-Adjustment%EF%BD%93-Manifesto)

Hopefully, with all the plans for the new expansion, it hasn't been lost completely due to higher priorities.

[saevel]

While we can't go over every comment/question because the SP ability adjustments are still in progress, we are still reviewing your feedback and taking them into consideration so please keep them coming!

If the developers are actually reading these, then can they take a look at RDM's new SP ability. The duration is too low, so low that RDM can only get a few spells off. The potency bonus is really weak and there is no duration bonus. Could the developers look at making it three minute duration with double potency / duration for enhancing magic cast?

For example, Bard has Soul Voice which is three minute duration and doubles the potency of all their songs. They combine it with Nightingale and Troubadour for instant cast double duration double potency Party wide buffs. When compared to this the RDM new SP ability is viewed as a joke by the developers.

[Demon6324236]

I would be content with 1.5 times potency/duration but I agree with you, it needs upgraded.

[Mirage]

Gonna agree with Byrth here. Death resistance is very important, because there are no other realistic ways to avoid that status effect from landing.

I think that generally, if there is a status effect that you can't realistically buff or gear against, the new WHM Special should either give immunity or a very strong resistance to it. Of course, it should also offer a strong resistance to a lot of other status effects that are more annoying than lethal to deal with.

I still think the whm SP ability should protect against certain auras, though. Perhaps especially paralyze and silence/mute auras. It might be fine to let the aura immunity also require barbarspells on top of the SP ability. The reasoning for this is that aura effects are already really... unfair, really. You can stack all the resistance gear in the entire world, put on a super-powered barblizzara, barparalyze, ice carol, and still be paralyzed instantly and for the entire duration of the aura the second you get into the range of the aura. The ability to get around this problem just once an hour doesn't sound sound imbalanced to me.

[Byrth]

We will be adding Dispel to the list of resists.

Whether we expand out to other status ailments depends on our discussions, so it would be really appreciated if you can let us know the specifics of why having a certain resistance would be good while keeping balance in mind so we can look into this. Of course having resistance against everything would be beneficial, but it's not the best course to just ignore how this will affect everything else.

While we can't go over every comment/question because the SP ability adjustments are still in progress, we are still reviewing your feedback and taking them into consideration so please keep them coming!

I thought you already had Dispel on the list of resists based on a translation that was posted on the community site a few days ago, but here is why you should allow us to resist the other things:

Charm, Petrify, Death, Terror, and (as cowardlybaboon suggested) Stun are the status effects that either cannot be avoided or cannot be removed if you happen to be afflicted with them as a White Mage. I'll term them the "Incapacitation Statuses."

Example (Petrify): If a White Mage, for instance, is hit with a 30' AoE attack that has an additional effect of Petrify (like from Dragua), they cannot Stona themselves or Stona the melee. If they get hit with Silencega, they can remove it with Echo Drops and go about business as usual. With Petrify, instead they are incapacitated.

Example (Terror and Death): If you're in a party fighting Arch Dynamis Lord, there are two scary attacks even with Perfect Defense. Tera Slash has additional effect Death and Dynamic Implosion has a 30 second Terror. Though ADL can certainly put out a lot of damage quickly in Chainspell mode, I'd argue that these two status effects are almost more scary than the rest of his arsenal just because of how unavoidable they are. Past basic planning, there's "skill" involved in avoiding Tera Slash's Death effect. It's just a matter of luck. Similarly, Dynamic Implosion (letting ADL hit you for 30 seconds while you wait to un-terror) isn't something that can be strategically avoided (except with Stun). People utterly hate these TP moves and there's no way to recover from or prevent them unless you adapt the second WHM SP ability to provide a way.

Example (Stun): Honestly, Stun is in the same vein as Terror and definitely counts as an Incapacitation Status but it has a much shorter duration. It's annoying and you could follow the same logic as above to include it in this SP ability, but until you guys make a monster that Chainspell Stuns us I will consider Stun to be too minor to really worry about.

Example (Charm): Charm adds an interesting dynamic to some fights that would be eliminated if you made this part of the SP ability (for fights people are willing to use an SP ability on), BUT currently the damage output of fully buffed melee is so high relative to player HP that Charms is less of a fight dynamic and more of a death sentence for the nearest support mages. I have one-shotted mages in full -% Physical Damage Taken gear while charmed before. Also, every job seems to have movement speed these days so there is no difficulty in keeping ahead of charmed players regardless of your job. After people have reacted and started running away, Charm just incapacitates some of your players and wastes your time. For a group that reacts quickly, it might as well be Terror.


Unless you dramatically increase the duration, the new WHM SP ability is going to be used for short fights against a very specific set of monsters that use a lot of status-related TP moves. Basically, zergs. Out of all of Legion, I would use it against the Corse monsters in Hall of Im if it made us immune to incapacitation statuses and lasted 2 minutes. It would save us? A few minutes of kiting charmed melee and a few deaths every other run.

For Arch Dynamis Lord, I would use this 2-hour if it made us immune to Terror, Petrify, and Death. Even without Perfect Defense to rely on, this 2-hour would increase the win rate to the point where it might be tolerable.

[saevel]

Developers still haven't answered the question. Wonder if they ever will.

[Kristal]

Add a Deathguard effect to Arise. If Death or Doom is inflicted on the target, Arise is consumed upon death instead with a message like 'Soandso escapes imminent death.' If you cure Doom before it takes effect, Arise is not consumed.
To prevent this ability being overused, the target could become Deathbound, meaning Reraise effects do not take hold for 5 minutes.

Also, put a 1/1 enchantment (60 min recharge) on the Flawless Ribbon that grants 100% resistance against all enfeebling effects for 5 minutes.

[Mirage]

That's a really good idea, actually.

[Camate]

Greetings everyone!

I’m back once again to share some more information about new special ability revamps for both those that have been implemented to the Test Server and those that will be implemented during this week’s Test Server update.


New special abilities already on the Test Server


Warrior
Currently the effect for this ability makes the activation rate for double attack 100%; however, we will be adjusting this so that the 100% activation rate is added to your current double attack rate when the ability is executed and then decrease over time. It will still be possible to maintain a very high double attack rate when using equipment and other support effects. The effect duration time will remain as 30 seconds.


White mage
Currently looking into the two below possibilities:

Keep the effect as it is currently, but change the effect duration from 30 seconds to 60 seconds.
Change effect so that you receive a strong resistance against Terror, Amnesia, and Death (Doom included). No changes to the 30 second effect duration.


Black mage
We will be limiting the effects of the new special ability to elemental magic and will be easing up on resists. For monsters that have strong resistances, a half-resist is guaranteed. If they resist yet again, it will result in a quarter resist. While the special ability is active, the resist determinant will be lowered and it will be possible to deal steady damage.



New special abilities that will be implemented during this week’s Test Server update

During this week’s Test Server update we will be implementing the below new special abilities. Please take a moment and try them out when you can!

<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"><td width="15%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Job</td><td width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Ability Name</td><td width="60%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Effect</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">Bard</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">BRD SP2</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">While effect is active, the number of songs that can be cast on party members will be increased by 1.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">Ranger</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">RNG SP2</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">While effect is active, ranged attack delay will be halved.<br>Additionally, Double Shot or Triple Shot activation is guaranteed.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">Dragoon</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">DRG SP2</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">While effect is active, there will be no cool down timer for Jump.</td></tr></table>



*Names, help text, and animations for abilities on the Test Server are still in-development. Effects are also subject to change and adjustment.

[Karbuncle]

I'm trying to be nice about this but um, Can you please ask if they plan on ever releasing THF Two hour or are they just planning to delete the job from the server -.-?

[Demon6324236]

WAR:Eh
WHM:Just do both -_-
BLM:K
BRD:...
RNG:Cool
DRG:Somewhat useful!

[HimuraKenshyn]

jump up jump up to get down Every body Jump Jump Chain JA Jump is pretty dang sweet.... Welcome back to the party pal....

Will it just be the low level Jump? I guess so but have to be sure lol.

[Helel]

Is the guaranteed triple shot proc for RNG a mistranslation or is there some piece of armor like scout's jerkin +2 I'm unaware of? Or are they planning on adding triple shot to RNG? Right now it is COR specific. Double shot is specific to RNG.

Great adjustment to the 2-hour though.

[Mefuki]

The new BRD SP 2 is good and everything but I'm I the only one that really wanted to use the old BRD SP 2? It seemed like an awesome way to cripple annoying (and dangerous) spellcasters.

[Zirael]

I'm trying to be nice about this but um, Can you please ask if they plan on ever releasing THF Two hour or are they just planning to delete the job from the server -.-?
Seconding this! THF weren't able to test new SP at all. No clue how bad it was, no news how bad it will be. :(

[MarkovChain]

The DRG one doesn't suck.

[Nebo]

I'm trying to be nice about this but um, Can you please ask if they plan on ever releasing THF Two hour or are they just planning to delete the job from the server -.-?

Yes Please. Update! Can I have it?

[Mindi]

I'm trying to be nice about this but um, Can you please ask if they plan on ever releasing THF Two hour or are they just planning to delete the job from the server -.-?

{Yes please} give thf some love.. real love :) and please please please DONT make this special ability make ANYTHING WITH TREASURE HUNTER. THF's dont need any Treasure hunter buffs, (unless you make us an ability where we force a 100% fulldrop np np)

[Ophannus]

It's probably just JUmp, doubnt it would include Spirit/Soul/Super/High Jump because those are too exploitable, especially since Rouse Wyvern lasts for 60 seconds, imagine how overpowered 60 seconds of Soul Jump spam would be. Although...DRK's 2hr has potential to be just as ridiculous...

[Loziel]

While we are on the subject of the abilities, for Drg please give us something like zero jump recast timers for 30-60 seconds and then we are talking, nobody cares about wyvern buffing unless its like primeval brew levels of power and we know that isnt going to happen

Ha, It was totally worth creating a forum account now. Im going to claim credit on this one. You're Welcome!

[Vagrua]

It's probably just JUmp, doubnt it would include Spirit/Soul/Super/High Jump because those are too exploitable, especially since Rouse Wyvern lasts for 60 seconds, imagine how overpowered 60 seconds of Soul Jump spam would be. Although...DRK's 2hr has potential to be just as ridiculous...

Broken jumps doesn't sound so bad to me. It may allow non mythic DRGs to be included in zerg type situations instead of being overlooked entirely by the community as a wasted DD spot.