New 2-hour Abilities

[Mefuki]

While I'm all for unreasonably overpowered effects, The duration being 1 minute is unimaginably unreasonable. Almost every single 2hour so far is 30sec, baring some few of the crazy requests... You're essentially asking for Half Chainspell, Half Manafont, Full Ignoring of Defense, and Level Correction removed?

I think THF's new 2hour should Ignore Defense, Have 100% Triple Attack proc, and all Hits are Sneak Attack tier Criticals that have no direction restrictions. This Effect Works on Weaponskills as well.

That is the level of insanity of that request. However, 2hour Ignoring Level Correction would be reasonable, and offer a strong boost to BLU Spells. Could shoot the duration to 30 seconds and throw in "Sets Recast timers to 0" and it seems less like asking for an All-In-one-Zerg Kit.

Messing around aside, Good contribution :3

Yeah, I thought the 100% ignore defense + 1:00 minute might be too much . Prothescar is, among a couple others, more or less the authority on BLU in the BLU community. So, I figured I should post his idea here on the official forums so it would have a better chance to be seen.

I like the changes you suggested. Change duration to 30 seconds, forgo the 100% defense ignore and set recasts to 0. Obviously, I'd have to get permission from Prothescar to change my original post.

[Theytak]

Actually, it says Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will apply to the party members and automaton itself)

I think you need to learn to read the dates shit gets posted, hun. When the post you quoted was posted, it very much did NOT say what you're pointing out. There's a post later on that makes clear that there was initially a typo. Read the whole thread before you reply snidely, please.


Idc what anyone says about the pup new two hour, having him be able to use benidiction rocks. I guess you just cant please some people.

I agree, pup get 5 new 2hrs, I think that pretty good.

Pup didn't get 5 new 2hours. Pup got shitty copies of 6 already existing 2hours. Pup got absolutely nothing new or original. Instead, we got:

Invincible, which we didn't need

Benediction, which they implemented broken, and didn't bother fixing before they left for the week

Gimped EES (damage modifier is reduced from 5x to 4x, it can't crit, and requires near impossible levels of fSTR to be good)
Gimped Mighty Strikes (Using harlequin head lowers valoredge's melee weapon damage, thus it's over all DoT, VE doesn't have any WS that area really able to take proper advantage of mighty strikes, harlequin just sucks, and it doesn't affect sharpshot's ranged attacks at all)

Gimped Chainspell (Doesn't affect the 4sec global recast on all spells, so it limits Stormwaker to 12 spells maximum, and also, due to lowering all the category recasts, sets back the clock, removing the AI fix that allowed Stormwaker to cycle spells between categories; during CS it casts Buffs -> enfeebles -> nukes, in that order, and even if you set it up to do 12 nukes, it doesn't have enough mp to back that up, and using mp restoration will cost you a nuke due to JA lag)

Pointless Manafont (Seriously. ADD. Activate -> Deploy -> Deactivate. Infinite MP. In what way is this useful? Even in situations where using ADD isn't easy, it doesn't cause spiritreaver to do anything different, it just gives it a few extra underpowered nukes before it starts spamming aspir.)

How, exactly, do you people continue to think these are good, new, or useful? The only real gain we got is benediction, which is basically just an ohshit button for solo, because there's no way you can swap from another puppet to soulsoother fast enough to use benediction in a situation where a whm would use it as an ohshit button, and solo's the only situation where it's normal to have soulsoother out, baring random lowman dicking around, which rarely ever gets to the point of needing benediction anyway.

The garbage they gave pup is nothing other than appeasing the fanbois who think "pup is an speshul butterfly job." You know, the same pups who used to try to join meripos in full AF/eva gear and subbing dnc, after grinding all their levels in campaign because no one would invite them (because their gear sucked ass). Those very same pups that perpetuated the stigma of "lolpup; pup sucks" for so long after SE fixed our shit and we stopped sucking. Then again, most of the shit SE gave as "new" 2hour abilities are just rehashed abilities they've already given the same job, or another job. I think the only completely original ability was brd's.

[Cljader1]

I think you need to learn to read the dates shit gets posted, hun. When the post you quoted was posted, it very much did NOT say what you're pointing out. There's a post later on that makes clear that there was initially a typo. Read the whole thread before you reply snidely, please.




Pup didn't get 5 new 2hours. Pup got shitty copies of 6 already existing 2hours. Pup got absolutely nothing new or original. Instead, we got:

Invincible, which we didn't need

Benediction, which they implemented broken, and didn't bother fixing before they left for the week

Gimped EES (damage modifier is reduced from 5x to 4x, it can't crit, and requires near impossible levels of fSTR to be good)
Gimped Mighty Strikes (Using harlequin head lowers valoredge's melee weapon damage, thus it's over all DoT, VE doesn't have any WS that area really able to take proper advantage of mighty strikes, harlequin just sucks, and it doesn't affect sharpshot's ranged attacks at all)

Gimped Chainspell (Doesn't affect the 4sec global recast on all spells, so it limits Stormwaker to 12 spells maximum, and also, due to lowering all the category recasts, sets back the clock, removing the AI fix that allowed Stormwaker to cycle spells between categories; during CS it casts Buffs -> enfeebles -> nukes, in that order, and even if you set it up to do 12 nukes, it doesn't have enough mp to back that up, and using mp restoration will cost you a nuke due to JA lag)

Pointless Manafont (Seriously. ADD. Activate -> Deploy -> Deactivate. Infinite MP. In what way is this useful? Even in situations where using ADD isn't easy, it doesn't cause spiritreaver to do anything different, it just gives it a few extra underpowered nukes before it starts spamming aspir.)

How, exactly, do you people continue to think these are good, new, or useful? The only real gain we got is benediction, which is basically just an ohshit button for solo, because there's no way you can swap from another puppet to soulsoother fast enough to use benediction in a situation where a whm would use it as an ohshit button, and solo's the only situation where it's normal to have soulsoother out, baring random lowman dicking around, which rarely ever gets to the point of needing benediction anyway.

The garbage they gave pup is nothing other than appeasing the fanbois who think "pup is an speshul butterfly job." You know, the same pups who used to try to join meripos in full AF/eva gear and subbing dnc, after grinding all their levels in campaign because no one would invite them (because their gear sucked ass). Those very same pups that perpetuated the stigma of "lolpup; pup sucks" for so long after SE fixed our shit and we stopped sucking. Then again, most of the shit SE gave as "new" 2hour abilities are just rehashed abilities they've already given the same job, or another job. I think the only completely original ability was brd's.

Invincible is pretty good, I played pup for years, I'm happy with the 6 new 2hrs. Plus the automaton is a pet you can't expect the 2hr to be exactly like the original jobs from which they came, that would be ridiculous.

[Kristal]

Invincible is pretty good, I played pup for years, I'm happy with the 6 new 2hrs. Plus the automaton is a pet you can't expect the 2hr to be exactly like the original jobs from which they came, that would be ridiculous.

They don't have to be the same, but at the very least they should be relevant for puppets. Why Eagle Eye Shot instead of Meikyo Shisui? Why Chainspell or Manafont when the AI cannot handle it?

I think PUPs would prefer (at least, I would) an ability that acts as an Automaton Revitalizer, restoring HP, MP and TP to max and reseting all automaton abilities. That would allow each automaton to do what it does best, instead of forcing it to use a questionable ability.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Of the two-hours RDM's needs to be upped to at least 3-minutes duration like SCH (I'd personally do 5:00), you can't even finish casting your own buffs in that time let alone on anyone else.

That said this would buff RDM, so I already know the answer.

[Scribble]

Are these abilities meant to supplement the original 2 hour abilities or are they replacements? I get the feeling that the forums would be on meltdown mode, but since I haven't seen it explicitly stated anywhere, I just wanted to be sure...

[Tamarsamar]

Pretty sure they're just alternatives; they just happen to share the same recast timer (like Jump and Spirit Jump).

[Karbuncle]

Yeah, I thought the 100% ignore defense + 1:00 minute might be too much . Prothescar is, among a couple others, more or less the authority on BLU in the BLU community. So, I figured I should post his idea here on the official forums so it would have a better chance to be seen.

I like the changes you suggested. Change duration to 30 seconds, forgo the 100% defense ignore and set recasts to 0. Obviously, I'd have to get permission from Prothescar to change my original post.

Proth is a Cool dude :D I'm sure he wouldn't mind.

[Mefuki]

Proth is a Cool dude :D I'm sure he wouldn't mind.

OK, edited. I really hope our reps translate them.

[Camate]

Greetings!

The Development Team has returned from their summer break and has started preparing their responses in regards to all the feedback we have been receiving on the new 2-hour abilities.

To start off, I like to first share some changes that are being planned.


Paladin
We will be adding the same enmity increase effect as Invincible.
The reflected damage can be increased via magic attack bonus and shield skill, but as we have seen cases where enemies were resisting it we have decided to increase the rate of accuracy and make adjustments so that it is more difficult to be resisted. We will also be correcting the bug where other effects such as reflected damage from spells would take precedence.


Beastmaster
We will be keeping the HP recovery and status ailment recovery as is, but we will be changing the reraise effect to a stoneskin effect. The strength of the stoneskin effect will vary depending on the pet. The idea is that Familiar will increase the pet’s offensive capabilities, while the new 2-hour ability will enhance the master’s defensive capability.


Samurai
In exchange for making the effect duration low, we will be making it so that elemental abilities are also evaded.


Puppetmaster
The same enmity properties for the player version of Invincible and Benediction will be added.
(In cases where the head’s respective 2-hour ability will not work due to the combination of head and frame, such as a sharpshot head with a frame other than a sharpshot frame or a stormwaker head with a valoredge frame, we will be making it so Mighty Strikes is used.)



Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

[FrankReynolds]

Greetings!

The Development Team has returned from their summer break and has started preparing their responses in regards to all the feedback we have been receiving on the new 2-hour abilities.

To start off, I like to first share some changes that are being planned.


Paladin
We will be adding the same enmity increase effect as Invincible.



Unless you tell us that you are revamping the enmity system first, this is virtually useless (please say you are fixing the enmity system).


Samurai
In exchange for making the effect duration low, we will be making it so that elemental abilities are also evaded.
[/list]


I know some people will be mad, but I like this.


Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

Some of these look so bad on paper that the only useful advice is to 86 them and start over.

For example, this is just trick attack on a ridiculous timer: Thief - Major damage is dealt to the enemy and all enmity will be transferred to the player standing in front of them.

We shouldn't have to tell you why putting a 1 minute ability on a 2 hour timer is bad, but here you go... This ability can't be used solo. This ability has no purpose in a group setting other than a minor damage spike, because enmity is completely broken. Unless this does huge damage, just the delay from using it will likely negate any added damage.

The only way you could make this good is to either:
A) make it do like 30,000 damage
B) fix the enmity system
C) A & B
D) start over

I'll get to the other ones when I get bored.

[Kari]

Beastmaster
We will be keeping the HP recovery and status ailment recovery as is, but we will be changing the reraise effect to a stoneskin effect. The strength of the stoneskin effect will vary depending on the pet. The idea is that Familiar will increase the pet’s offensive capabilities, while the new 2-hour ability will enhance the master’s defensive capability.

I'm sorry, but whoever is developing this 2 hour ability does not know how people play BST.
Sacrificing your pet is the WORST thing you can do to be "Defensive".
There is no way being cured and given stoneskin will be worth it. The reraise, which was already a terrible effect, is actually better than stoneskin.
Sadly I cannot suggest a better 2 hour, but if you want a defensive 2 hour, the pet cannot be sacrificed without giving the master objectively broken bonuses.

Also, I have a thread about the Dancer 2 hour here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26521-New-DNC-2-Hour-Feedback
It has some ideas, but overall can help understand why this 2 hour will also rarely be used, and is not worth a 2 hour cooldown.
I hope the DEV team will consider the fact that 2 hour abilities need to be STRONG, or even close-to-broken [like some of them ARE] to be worth using, because they are things you cannot use very often in most cases. Most of these 2 hours are underwhelming, especially since they share the same cooldown as the old 2 hours, which, most are better.

[Calamity]

Greetings!

The Development Team has returned from their summer break and has started preparing their responses in regards to all the feedback we have been receiving on the new 2-hour abilities.

To start off, I like to first share some changes that are being planned.


Paladin
We will be adding the same enmity increase effect as Invincible.
The reflected damage can be increased via magic attack bonus and shield skill, but as we have seen cases where enemies were resisting it we have decided to increase the rate of accuracy and make adjustments so that it is more difficult to be resisted. We will also be correcting the bug where other effects such as reflected damage from spells would take precedence.


Beastmaster
We will be keeping the HP recovery and status ailment recovery as is, but we will be changing the reraise effect to a stoneskin effect. The strength of the stoneskin effect will vary depending on the pet. The idea is that Familiar will increase the pet’s offensive capabilities, while the new 2-hour ability will enhance the master’s defensive capability.


Samurai
In exchange for making the effect duration low, we will be making it so that elemental abilities are also evaded.


Puppetmaster
The same enmity properties for the player version of Invincible and Benediction will be added.
(In cases where the head’s respective 2-hour ability will not work due to the combination of head and frame, such as a sharpshot head with a frame other than a sharpshot frame or a stormwaker head with a valoredge frame, we will be making it so Mighty Strikes is used.)



Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

We beastmasters, and yes I think I speak for all of us, want an ability that does not sacrifice our pet. The benefits from this 2hr are lackluster enough, but adding the loss of a pet to this ability just makes it all out undesirable. Truth be told I can't think of another 2hr that comes at a cost, (the closest thing is the mp cost for Astral Flow) and that is how it should be. These are supposed to be powerful abilities that are designed to turn the tides of battle, but this feels like a trade, not a boon. All the other 2hrs come without cost. Why is this one treated so differently?

[Shoko]

Greetings!

The Development Team has returned from their summer break and has started preparing their responses in regards to all the feedback we have been receiving on the new 2-hour abilities.

Beastmaster
We will be keeping the HP recovery and status ailment recovery as is, but we will be changing the reraise effect to a stoneskin effect. The strength of the stoneskin effect will vary depending on the pet. The idea is that Familiar will increase the pet’s offensive capabilities, while the new 2-hour ability will enhance the master’s defensive capability.

Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

Not sure if want 100%. If the vision is to enhance the master's defensive capability, please add a few more effects, such as a semi potent Regen and Defense Boost (or Phalanx effect). The Reraise status remaining would also be a nice touch as well.

In a perfect world, BST would be just fine receiving something very similar to DRG's Spirit Surge as well.

[Kari]

Not sure if want 100%. If the vision is to enhance the master's defensive capability, please add a few more effects, such as a semi potent Regen and Defense Boost (or Phalanx effect). The Reraise status remaining would also be a nice touch as well.

In a perfect world, BST would be just fine receiving something very similar to DRG's Spirit Surge as well.

Even with all of those things, and NOT sacrificing the pet, this 2 hour would still be horrid.

[Chilloa]

Beastmaster
We will be keeping the HP recovery and status ailment recovery as is, but we will be changing the reraise effect to a stoneskin effect. The strength of the stoneskin effect will vary depending on the pet. The idea is that Familiar will increase the pet’s offensive capabilities, while the new 2-hour ability will enhance the master’s defensive capability.


Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

If the idea is to make a defensive BST 2-hour then why would we get rid of our pet? Why not completely get rid of the whole sacrifice our pet thing in exchange for a Divine Seal + Afflatus Solace type Reward. Have the two-hour use up a Pet Food, have it double the amount healed along with a potent Stoneskin for the pet. The strength of Stoneskin and Healing depending on the Pet Food you use. I just don't see any BST ever using this new 2-hour. If we're sacrificing our Pet for HP the Stoneskin won't really be needed because what BST isn't going to just Call Beast + Snarl right after?

[Helel]

What the hell at sam lol? So they basically get a better version of invincible? One that increases their WS damage with every attack evaded, both magic and physical? Uh . . . ?

Also duration of RNG 2-hour needs to be increased, or it needs to enhance true shot or something. The only time I ever see myself using it is during a zerg, and as crappy as EES is, the new 2-hour will not outparse a 7k EES during a zerg.

[kingfury]

Greetings!

The Development Team has returned from their summer break and has started preparing their responses in regards to all the feedback we have been receiving on the new 2-hour abilities.

To start off, I like to first share some changes that are being planned.


Beastmaster
We will be keeping the HP recovery and status ailment recovery as is, but we will be changing the reraise effect to a stoneskin effect. The strength of the stoneskin effect will vary depending on the pet. The idea is that Familiar will increase the pet’s offensive capabilities, while the new 2-hour ability will enhance the master’s defensive capability.


Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.
--------------------------------
I don't even play BST myself, but I could think of a dozen other 2hr concepts that would make a BST possibly use the new ability and be happy about it.


New BST 2hour - Pet Calls for Help:
Give BST the same HP recovery and status ailment recovery stuff, reraise/stoneskin er whatever, but allow them to keep their pet while adding 2 more additional pets when their pet "Calls for Help!" The 2 additional pets will appear instantly once the pet calls for them and begin to attack the targeted enemy until finally using their most powerful TP move before disappearing at the end of the ability duration. The pet remains afterwards to continue battling the targeted enemy.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/NewBST2HR-WEB.jpg

[Raucent]

aye it seems a tad ridiculous SE is giving SAM in essence Invincible +1 and an attack boost all in one
other jobs 2 hrs are lackluster at best.

The new 2hr's need to at least be on par with current ones to even be considered usable
DRK atm still seems like it will be SEBW Zerg vs En-ABS-TP for maybe 4 swings with scythe/GS
RDM unless the enhancing buff is Tremendous what benefit is there to it compared to chain-stun or cure bomb
BST.... i don't know what the thought is on the idea, the pet is realistically their best offense AND their defense
THF ... A 2hr that is utterly useless solo, enough said. if they want to give THF a DD ability I'd say leave the dmg spike but the enmity can Either go to the person in front of them or the THF themselves, which would at least make it have a solo use
BRD MNK WHM seems like they are at least useful
SAM seems a bit much evade physical and elemental tp moves AND an attack boost for every move evaded... (did you forget about Ironclads or other TP style attack only mobs?)
COR ... 2 hr ability for a 3rd phantom roll ... or a chance at restoring every ones 2 hr i'd probably choose the latter
DNC I don't use often enough to make a call
WAR in essence Formless Strikes
DRG several times it has been mentioned there are now several options to keep the wyvern up but what good is that if the DRG is dead
SCH with current battle strategies players will probably 99% of the time choose Embrava
PLD as mentioned enmity system needs an Overhaul
BLM basically seems like they are being given a 2hr cooldown of enmity douse -_-
SMN seems very potent
NIN seems OK
RNG I don't use often enough but almost anything seems like it would beat EES
BLU could be useful (may want to add more spells to unbridled for more options)
PUP a lot of the options seem very potent for the frame but I rarely use PUP so not the best to offer an opinion

[Shibayama]

I think at this point the best, most specific feedback I can think of is...

Postpone the release of these abilities, and yes, completely rework the majority of them. There's just so much dissatisfaction with these 2 hour abilities and the dev's offering the excuse that "Well *we* think these abilities are useful in certain situations, and we'll update them/boost the power of them with merits at a later date" would be a complete cop-out on their part, as well as showing that no, they don't actually care about real creative feedback from players other than "This has a bug - fix it!" And I get that the dev's need to have their own plans and not bend to every whim of the playerbase, but when literally every BST, RDM, THF, DNC, and more are saying "NO! This will not work!" then it's time to scrap your work and go back to the drawing board.

Take some time, really listen to what the playerbases are suggesting, and add in some truly epic new 2 hours worthy of the 10th year anniversary, and learn from your past. What good is rushing out content to meet a deadline going to do you if nobody likes what you rushed out in the first place?

[noirin]

i Honestly love the idea of a new bst 2hr that calls extra mobs for a brief period.maybe they'd stay grouped with your current pet and only assist it, not being controllable by the player.they'd stick around for the duration of the 2hr then at it's end, use their best ready moves [if in combat] then leave. As the idea above me suggested.
that, or i'd even be ok with like, consuming your pet to call a smaller version of a HNM to assist you for it's duration.
anything that kills my pet just for buffs? not worth my pet.i do pay for these pets you know.

[Mefuki]

Greetings!

The Development Team has returned from their summer break and has started preparing their responses in regards to all the feedback we have been receiving on the new 2-hour abilities.

To start off, I like to first share some changes that are being planned.


Paladin
We will be adding the same enmity increase effect as Invincible.
The reflected damage can be increased via magic attack bonus and shield skill, but as we have seen cases where enemies were resisting it we have decided to increase the rate of accuracy and make adjustments so that it is more difficult to be resisted. We will also be correcting the bug where other effects such as reflected damage from spells would take precedence.


Beastmaster
We will be keeping the HP recovery and status ailment recovery as is, but we will be changing the reraise effect to a stoneskin effect. The strength of the stoneskin effect will vary depending on the pet. The idea is that Familiar will increase the pet’s offensive capabilities, while the new 2-hour ability will enhance the master’s defensive capability.


Samurai
In exchange for making the effect duration low, we will be making it so that elemental abilities are also evaded.


Puppetmaster
The same enmity properties for the player version of Invincible and Benediction will be added.
(In cases where the head’s respective 2-hour ability will not work due to the combination of head and frame, such as a sharpshot head with a frame other than a sharpshot frame or a stormwaker head with a valoredge frame, we will be making it so Mighty Strikes is used.)



Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

Did you guys get that post I posted on some alternative BLU 2-hours 1 page prior to this last dev rep post? If not, I implore you to please go back and examine that post.

If you're looking for specific changes to these 2-hours, you don't have to look any further then your own forum:

From the BST fourm, by Lastranger of Fenrir:


a 2 hour effect that grants some % of PTD/MDT or just DT and with higher evasion the normal for short period, meant for those times pet dies when timer to call isnt up.

As you can tell, this was a suggestion for a master buff. However, considering how imperative it is that a BST pet must live in order to play defensively, it may be desirable for this suggestion be applied to the pet not the master.

Some additional suggestions to pair up with Damage Taken -:

*Double the HP of you or your pet
*Grant Regen (15-35~/tic depending on pet. Separate from the Regen of Reward) for you or your pet
*Allow the absorption of damage from the attacks of opponnets. Absorption rate and what element/TP attacks are absorbed depend on monster correlation.



From the RDM forum, from Tyrantsyn of Quetzalcoat:


1: 2 hr duration: honestly 30 to 45 second of improved buff's just doesn't really cry epic 2 hour at all. Basically you rush to get out buffs as fast as possible before the duration end. Having it for such a short time just kind of seem's cheap and kill's the over all utility. Ideally this 2 hour would work better with a 5 to 10 minute duration. Where it could be reapply when necessary til the end of the fight or at least mid way threw the fight.

2: undispel~able: I'm referring the actually spell's and not the 2 hr ability it self. This has been suggested a few time's to add over all bonus to the 2 hour to make it more appealing.

3: Duration increase: I know originally this was just a mis translated but it was a very appealing idea bonus to the ability.

4: It would be idea if the ability double potency on anything it affected. This would bring a lot of demand for the ability in end game content.

To further narrow this down, it was discussed that:

1*A duration of 3:00 would be sufficient to buff your party. (another suggestion was to keep the duration as it is but as a trade off, allow all spells accessible by RDM to be AoE under the effects of the 2-hour.)

2*The undispellable buffs, a la Embrava, was agreed upon.

3*The duration bonus was agreed upon, so long as it could be balanced with other duration increasing gear/abilities that RDM already receives.

4*One alternative suggestion was to keep the 50%+ potency bonus that the 2-hour already has except in the case where spells only effect yourself. Self target spells would gain 100%+ potency bonus.



So there are some suggestions from the job specific forums on this very website. It only took a few minutes to find a post regarding the 2-hour and a discussion about what would or wouldn't work. FFXIAH, FFXI BG forums and even FFXI Alla are other sites that usually have many users posting their thoughts and suggestions about things like this.

I would suggest FFXIAH especially because a user by the name of Kalilla of Siren posts all of your posts there. So, at a glance, all of you reps can go straight there and get a lot of insight on what people are thinking.

Would it help if we compiled 2-hour and any future ability/spell suggestions in one topic perhaps? Because it's all there if you do some searching around the major FFXI forums.

In any case, you're strongly hinting that you were not aware of possible alternatives that the community has been giving. So, I guess we need to be more clear about that.


So, everyone, if you haven't seen a good or reasonable suggestion for you preferred job/s yet, get those creative brains storming and come up with some things. If that job's community can come to a general consensus, we can add positive, constructive feedback instead of negative, non-constructive "bad idea, don't have a way to fix it, just re-do it" feedback. Which appears to be something the devs need.

[Karbuncle]

For the record, To the people complaining about SAM. Read it one more time. (I Know i almost went "What the F**K, They're getting Beefed up Perfect Dodge? WITH A WS BONUS?!?!!?!", But i was wrong:)


All damage caused by physical special abilities will be evaded. Additionally, weapon skill damage will increase as more special abilities are evaded.

Its not going to block Physical and magical Attacks, Just Physical and Magical Special Abilities, Weaponskills. Who knows if this will apply to Iron Giant hints and etc, since they're technically WS... If it is, They just got what Perfect Dodge should have been since implementation... If they don't count... Its pretty much "F**k, Chainspell Stun is over and the mobs dead! Why didn't i use my 2hour? Oh Well, use this one!"

And Evade AoEs like a Boss... PS, This will probably make SAM a lot more fun for Arch Dynamis Lord, Considering ADL's biggest sh*t storm is his AoE rape TP moves... Being able to completely avoid them will make SAM ridiculous for ADL fights. You know, at least 1 of them.

Would be nice for some fights.

[Raucent]

And Evade AoEs like a Boss... PS, This will probably make SAM a lot more fun for Arch Dynamis Lord, Considering ADL's biggest sh*t storm is his AoE rape TP moves... Being able to completely avoid them will make SAM ridiculous for ADL fights. You know, at least 1 of them.

Would be nice for some fights.

ridiculous aye but whats to stop players from excluding other jobs in favor of Mass SAM SCH WHM BLM Only spams on it

[Jeryhn]

Honestly Devs, RDM's new 2-Hour is kinda lame, mostly because all the good RDM buffs as self-cast only. Sure, for an RDM by itself that's great, but when an RDM can't get a party because it doesn't bring anything to the table for the party, that's a problem.

Here's a better idea: What if the new two-hour ability transferred all the RDM's current enhancing magic buffs and their remaining durations over to their party members? Make it stack with the duration effects that Composure and the empyrean armor grants. Imagine it with me for a second Devs:

Being able to grant your party of two-hand damage dealers a lasting duration of Gain-STR, Enspell2, Haste and Temper effects. That group of mages has no worries with Refresh2, Gain-INT, Klimaform and a Storm spell with incredibly long-lasting duration. You could even add Protect, Shell and Reraise effects to the mix for posterity. What RDM needs isn't the ability to further enhance ONLY ITSELF. What RDM needs to make itself relevant again it something to at least pretend it can compete with Embrava. Right here would be a good start.

And for the record, Enspells should also grant an Elemental Affinity buff to make them more useful than simply hitting something with a weapon... a direct damage compliment to a SCH's Storm/Klimaform accuracy deal.

[Karbuncle]

ridiculous aye but whats to stop players from excluding other jobs in favor of Mass SAM SCH WHM BLM Only spams on it

Errr.... BLM? You haven't fought ADL have you :P?

But for multiple reasons.

1) Its a 2hour, Meaning 1-hit Wonder.
2) Most LS's pop multiple ADL's in a single run, So a single run would be about... 10~minutes including TE's and prepping.
3) Its really a Zerg fest as is, While this new SAM 2hour would make a Single fight probably cake, It won't replace any other DDs indefinitely, as it'd only be good for one fight.

Plus, SCH.. No as well. Really, Its all about BRD, COR, SMN, and mass DD as is (Token THF). This 2hour will be fun for a fight, But its not going to exclude any other jobs in the process. Which is as it should be.

:D

[Cljader1]

These 2hrs definitely needs a boost and since they share the same timer SE needs to boost the original 2hrs as well. Drk 2 hrs just seem so lazy, I wish you guys was more creative with the job. Drk need a haste with this 2hr, 30 secs is too short when you have a high delay weapon, all it really takes is a few misses or parries before you lose most of your 2hr time.

[Demon6324236]

Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

Camate thank you for the update on the happenings with the 2-hour abilities. I was sad to see nothing was said about RDM's ability however.

What to change!

1. I ask for something very simple that should be balanced, please make the effect of the 2-hour last 3~5 minutes, SCH's Tabula Rasa & BRD's Soul Voice are both much like our ability however last much longer right now.

2. Please return the duration increase, and make it 50~100% extra duration for spells cast during this time.

3. Increase the potency for all spells a 50~100% boost across the board.

4. Make Enhancing Magic cast during the effect, unable to be dispelled.

Why it is balanced!

With this, we still have many of our most potent spells such as Gain-Spells and Temper as self cast only, but have more time to buff party members. Balance is easily maintained as even with a Haste that gives 30% Haste, SCH & BRD can beat it. SCH has Embrava, which comes up to 30% Haste if I'm not mistaken, and lasts a max of 12.5 Minutes, which is roughly what the RDM 2-hour would make a RDM's Haste last, however Embrava can also stack with Haste, where as RDM's 2-hour Haste will not be able to stack with yet another haste. BRD also can Soul Voice Marches for a total of 40% Haste, which is yet again better than the double potency of a RDM's Haste, while they also have an ability as SCH does that allows for a double duration effect.

Many of RDM's best spells are self target only, meaning no one outside of the RDM would be getting these effects. Due to RDM being the only one to possibly get them, I think it would be fair for RDM to get an incredible boost in power for a good amount of time from spells like Gain and Temper, as they would be a great amount of DD power to put RDM on the front lines, or to use Gain-INT/MND for amazing nukes/enfeebles due to the higher accuracy. Phalanx would give even more damage mitigation allowing RDM to take more of a hit, another reason why it could be very useful, especially with how hard things hit now days, and if it were put with Phalanx II, you would get around -80 damage on party members with this ability, and with how hard things hit now days, that could be useful, not to mention the super strong effects Protect & Shell would gain.

Last is the un-dispellable Enhancing Magic, the reason for this is because like Embrava, the effect is wasted if a mob removed these. For instance if fighting a dragon they can wipe all buffs with a single TP attack. This alone, make the 2-hour lack balance, as said, a SCH may cast Embrava, something that is not the entirety of the 2-hours abilities, and it can not be dispelled, yet this 2-hour is able to be completely removed, and has no other benefits. Dragons are not the only mobs with this power, many can do it, and it ruins this 2-hour quite a bit if ever this were used on a RDM.

RDM 2-hour Merits?!

We have been told we are going to be able to merit 2-hour abilities, but we have little to no information on anything about it. However some of my suggestions relies on parts of this happening. I figure the Merit 2-hours will be a 3rd category in each jobs merit lists. I also think they will probably work alot like other categories, with 4+ different choices, and upto 10 merits placed into each job. So if this is the case I would like to give you my list of merits for 2-hours I would like to see.

Chainspell - Duration: With each merit, provides a 10% boost to duration. This should stack with the Augmented Duelist's Tabard +2 effect, so normally 1 merit would be +6 seconds of duration, and with this body, 1 merit becomes 8 extra seconds.

Chainspell - Accuracy: With each merit increases magic accuracy by 10 during the effect of Chainspell. This would allow better magic accuracy during Chainspell, so that less nukes, or enfeebles, are resisted during this time.

New 2-hour - Duration: Adds 10% duration to Enhancing Magic cast during the effect of the 2-hour ability for each merit. Earlier in this post I had the duration at +50~100%, that was for this. If this merit is put in, then it would be starting at 50%, and growing to 100% through merits.

New 2-hour - Potency: Adds 10% potency to Enhancing Magic cast during the effect of the 2-hour ability for each merit. Earlier in this post I had the potency at +50~100%, that was for this. If this merit is put in then it would be starting at 50% and growing to 100% through merits.

If this is not the plans for merits!

If merits are not like this we will need a 75~100% boost in duration/potency of spells during this effect, as I showed earlier, it is not unbalanced, many other jobs have effects much like this that are very potent and can even stack with the effect of the original spells, meaning theirs will still be more powerful even.

Please keep in mind, you are asking players to wait 2 whole hours to use these powers again, and 2 of these abilities we already have on other jobs are highly powerful, so much so that they are thought to be the only abilities worth waiting that 2 hours. I think it is fair for RDM to get these buffs, as it would make it a more potent job, and extend its power a little more in a party or solo setting with its various Enhancing Magics.

Thank you for reading!

Thank you for reading my post, and ideas. I hope they are given to the devs, and they can truly be looked over, and possibly implemented for RDM. RDM is my favorite job, but time and time again it feels like since the level cap was raised the job has lost its use, and this new 2-hour has some hope to get it back, but we do need the ability to be better than it is. Please look into this, and do it, so that RDM can have a place again, and so the job doesn't truly die.

[Cljader1]

make the 2hr timers separate from each other, 2hrs are a fun part of the game its the pinnacle of the job's might and the strongest ability possessed by the job. Its not fair or fun that you make these abilities lackluster and uninteresting, boost the power of the 2hrs, and separate their shared timers

[Cyranda]

Invincible is pretty good, I played pup for years, I'm happy with the 6 new 2hrs. Plus the automaton is a pet you can't expect the 2hr to be exactly like the original jobs from which they came, that would be ridiculous.

Why would that be ridiculous? 2-Hour abilities should provide an approximately equal benefit to all jobs. If PUP can only use its 2-Hour just as often as any other job, it should provide exactly the same level of benefit every two hours whether it affects the puppet, the master, both or the party. Why on Earth would it just affecting the puppet be grounds for making it not as good?

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Why would that be ridiculous? 2-Hour abilities should provide an approximately equal benefit to all jobs. If PUP can only use its 2-Hour just as often as any other job, it should provide exactly the same level of benefit every two hours whether it affects the puppet, the master, both or the party. Why on Earth would it just affecting the puppet be grounds for making it not as good?

Why should it? SE has made it clear countless times that this isn't the case where pet jobs are concerned.

I'll redirect you to only recently with BST and TH. You do NOT gain the same effect, nor should a pet job ever do so in SE's eyes. Be grateful PUP got as much as it has.

[Malthar]

Hi SE,

Perhaps it would be best to share with us the ideology behind the new two hour abilities so that we may better understand your intentions.

I am a career bst and as such, I will only comment on the new bst 2hr ability. It seems to me that your intent is to implement an "oh sh*t" ability such as run wild. Is this the reasoning for the new bst 2hr and the other jobs as well?

[SpankWustler]

Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

Yeah, I guess "this is worse than waking up on the floor of a public restroom" isn't the most constructive feedback I've ever offered. Let's see what I can muster...

Beastmaster - Stoneskin may be far better than Reraise depending on the potency and duration, but this ability is never going to feel like a boon unless it gives the master offensive buffs rather than defensive buffs. The pet itself is commonly viewed as a unique and powerful defensive option for Beastmaster, so briefly giving up a pet for a defensive buff just feels like walking a mile to trade one orange for one orange.

On the other hand, in large group activities, there are times when pets contribute very little due to being unaffected by party buffs. Simple creatures just don't have the right sense of rhythm to benefit from Marches, I guess. I'd be more than happy to eat my pet for a unique offensive buff in those situations.

Blue Mage - I know this guy isn't on the test server yet, but it seems self-explanatory enough that I'm going to complain right now. Gaining unlimited use of Unbridled Learning spells isn't a flawed concept, but most of the spells currently under the Unbridled Learning Umbrella aren't spells anyone would want to use over and over.

The "best" spells are used more akin to enfeebling magic than purely offensive magic, such as casting Gates of Hades for the Intelligence-down or Bilgestorm for the various debuff effects. Casting these spells over and over isn't going to make the desired effect any better.

Also, the additional effect of Tourbillion is either broken or intentionally horrid in terms of accuracy. So, that's one spell down completely.

If the raw damage dealt by Unbridled Learning spells were increased, that would improve this new ability and Unbridled Learning as a whole. Alternatively, if one of the upcoming merits increase Unbridled Learning spell damage drastically while this new ability is active, that would work fine.

This one has potential to be a very good ability in some situations if things are changed a bit, but as it is right now, it is so bad that I doubt I would ever use it.

[Keyln]

I'm not a big fan of having Mighty Strikes for PUP. It's only really useful for one or two frames, and it has very very limited uses. I would rather see Hundred Fists as the catch-all for the frames, including Harlequinn, as that it would allow the automatons to do more damage. Other than that Manafont is good, Chainspell is good (although it would be nice if the casting AI was directed more towards damaging spells), and I love Benediction. Eagle Eye Shot feels way too weak, especially when compared to Sharpshot's strongest WS. At the very least, it should be much more powerful than Armor Shatter.

SMN 2hr is really nice, although it would be nice if the duration was lengthened to a minute (to be on par with Chainspell), and if charge up time for BPs were shortened during this time.

I really also think that SE needs to take a second look at the enmity system. SCH, even if Embrava wasn't present, feels weak, especially considering the enmity dynamics. Any good tank worth their salt will be at the enmity cap at near the start of battle, and since the enmity cap is all the same for everyone, it has very little meaning. And considering how most damage jobs can also hit enmity cap, it makes the SCH 2hr rather meaningless. Add in Embrava, and the SCH 2hr might as well not exist.

[Olor]

i Honestly love the idea of a new bst 2hr that calls extra mobs for a brief period.maybe they'd stay grouped with your current pet and only assist it, not being controllable by the player.they'd stick around for the duration of the 2hr then at it's end, use their best ready moves [if in combat] then leave. As the idea above me suggested.
that, or i'd even be ok with like, consuming your pet to call a smaller version of a HNM to assist you for it's duration.
anything that kills my pet just for buffs? not worth my pet.i do pay for these pets you know.

Yeah, I have to say, I am extremely disappointed with the BST two hour. It will be almost completely useless. Our pet is way better "stoneskin" than "stoneskin" - thousands of HP taking hits for us! Healable! And we pay for the darn things. Any ability that consumes our pet is going to suck, period. Call beast timer is too long to use in that way.

I'd much rather see a two-hour that vastly increased the offensive capability of our pet. The last thing bst needs is more defensive options. That's not our problem, our problem is that we are useless for haste-capped situations because half or more of our melee damage output doesn't benefit from party haste. If you give us native dual wield (even just DW1) and let our pets get haste, you can have both two hours. We need those things more than we need some crummy gimmick that no one will use.

[Calatilla]

I said it earlier in the thread and I'm going to say it again.

The new THF 2hr is a waste, TA on a 2hr timer.
The new SCH 2hr is a waste, hate reset for the entire pt when 99% of the time the sch is only in the pt because of 1 spell.

THF should have been the one to get the party-wide hate reset not SCH. Did you forget your "vision" for THF? Sure SCH has Libra and 2 spells that give or take enmity, but a full hate reset?

Enmity as the system stands is broken anyway so it really makes no difference since neither of these 2hrs will be used over their current counterparts. I just wanted to say that you`ve taken away everything from THF and now you're going to take away the core of what they`re supposed to be(in your eyes)

I don't really think you know what you are doing in regards to THF. If you do actually have a clue, please enlighten me.

[Byrth]

Now that we've entered a newer and more positive era of suggestions, I'll re-post this:
Suggestion: Reduce Flourish recasts to 4 seconds while the new Dancer 2-hour is in effect.
Reasoning:
* Flourish Cost is by far not the most limiting part of them. Finishing moves can be obtained almost as fast as they can be spent.
* Once you activate the 2-hour and use Reverse Flourish/Climactic, you're left sitting there with your 2-hour up utterly unable to take advantage of it at all. That's just frustrating and cruel.
* 4 seconds was chosen because it's approximately low the recast would have to be for us to continuously skillchain.
* If you choose 6 seconds instead (like Waltzes) that will also work, but it will be less powerful.


As it stands, this ability will not see any use due to Flourish timers. It is worth two "free" Reverse Flourishes and one "free" Climactic Flourish. Even when used optimally (see below) it isn't really very useful.

Optimal use for this, as far as I can see, is approximately this:
Sekkanoki -> Presto -> Climactic Flourish -> Box Step -> Wild Flourish -> Evisceration (Transfixion) -> Exenterator (Distortion) -> 2-hour + Reverse + Meditate -> Evisceration (Darkness) -> No Foot Rise (AF2+2) -> Rudra's Storm (Darkness)
*wait for Reverse Flourish and build 100TP*
Climactic -> Rudra's Storm -> Reverse -> Rudra's Storm

Sounds pretty fabulous, right? Yeah, except when you realize that:
1) There are almost no situations where you could actually complete such a skillchain at the moment. Monsters either don't have enough HP, you aren't on Dancer, or they have some kind of status effect that is going to interrupt you.
2) You could have done almost exactly the same thing without the 2-hour. All you miss out on is one Tier 1 skillchain/skillchain level:
Presto -> Climactic Flourish -> Box Step -> Sekkanoki -> Evisceration -> Meditate -> Exenterator (Distortion) -> NFR -> Evisceration (Darkness) -> Reverse -> Rudra's Storm (Darkness)
If you were willing to burn a wing, you could do literally the same thing starting with Wild Flourish and just replacing the Reverse with a wing usage. Why is our 2-hour equal to a 5k Icarus Wing?



Suggestion: Allow the Warrior 2-hour to extend to Weapon Skill damage and extend the base duration to 1.5 minutes.
Reasoning:
* At the moment Mighty Strikes is superior to this 2-hour in almost every situation because it applies to both normal hits and Weapon Skills. Until you make an event that has us melee zerging elementals, this will not be used.
* If you make the outlined change, it will be used in some rare situations (like against Paramount Botulus in Legion). As it stands, people do 2000-4000+ damage Resolutions to Botulus with Mighty Strikes, which is likely more than they would expect to do with this JA.
* I suspect Hit Rate is auto-capped (or made 100%) when this 2-hour is active. A Warrior in high performance events is never alone, so you will be receiving the buffs that other DDs need anyway (including Accuracy ones), and this benefit is much more negligible in practice than I'm sure it seems on paper.

[Xilk]

Kudos to Kingfury for the very FUN idea w/ illustration!

Additional Ideas for BST 2-hour abilities:

Feral Scream: Apply a 75%~80% Killer Instinct effect instead of a 15%. A big boost in enmity as well. 2 min duration.

Skinchange: The master 'passes out' (KO status w/ auto-reraise or arise effect) and player directly controls pet (from inside its head!) which receives stat bonuses depending on player stats, has additional ready moves unlocked, can skillchain, and charges removed for ready moves (tp only). 3~5min duration. This one is kinda like an inverse Spirit Surge on Dragoon; The lore stretches beastmaster a bit from telepathically linked to pets to "spiritually riding along w/ the pet" like a warg or skinchanger. This one is harder on development, and would probably need to wait until the "play as a monster pvp" system is added, but it would be SUPER COOL.

[Amokzz]

EES should be made a 5min JA it does less dmg than barrage anyways.
This new RNG 2h would maybe be 10min Recast/3min duration JA material because it does nothing but save you some gil and maybe add 100 dmg to your ws...

A real RNG 2h would be something like NO enmity gain for 90sec so we could actually go all out for once as for the 2nd perma Barrage even if its just for for 45sec sounds nice

[Minikom]

Beastmaster
We will be keeping the HP recovery and status ailment recovery as is, but we will be changing the reraise effect to a stoneskin effect. The strength of the stoneskin effect will vary depending on the pet. The idea is that Familiar will increase the pet’s offensive capabilities, while the new 2-hour ability will enhance the master’s defensive capability.


Why remove reraise effect, that is really something good in this new 2 hours, sacrifice your pet to gain reraise effect, think i read about sic and ready timers being reset to 2 hours, that should be the problem with bst 2 hours, not reraise

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Why remove reraise effect, that is really something good in this new 2 hours, sacrifice your pet to gain reraise effect, think i read about sic and ready timers being reset to 2 hours, that should be the problem with bst 2 hours, not reraise

It was kind of rubbish when Twilight Set granted that.

[Siiri]

Drk's new 2 hour needs to be at least doubled in duration, if not tripled. 90 seconds would probably be really good.

[Luvbunny]

Yeah these new 2 hours are mostly rubbish, 30 seconds are not enough time to make substantial change when you see other jobs got a nicer 2 hours that last 3 minutes - and all of those are the original 2 hours which as of now still far better than the new ones ever will be. They should at least make it 90 seconds for most of these 2 hours - so far they are all pretty much short duration, good to rubbish ability between all the jobs.

[Chamaan]

War: Commented earlier in thread. 100% (or very high) TA rate, bonus to +WSD%,

Mnk: A bonus to HTH base damage (at least +30-40dmg, could base it on Mnd/Vit stat or something) for 3 minutes

Thf: Make the trick attack reset the entire hate list except for the person who was tricked onto

Cor: Anything less than a half hour duration will be pointless, should even be active until death honestly, like old Drg two hour was

Bst: Consumes one equipped jug to give your pet bonuses (which last for the duration of the pet) according to the job type of the beast summoned by the jug Example: Falcorr eats a Gorefang jug (WAR), gains DA and attack bonus; Raphie jug (PLD)=Def/HP bonus; Dapper Mac jug (MNK)=Counter/-attack delay; Falcorr eats an additional Falcorr jug (THF) and gains further enhanced evasion and TH2

[Falkirk]

Additional Ideas for BST 2-hour abilities:

Feral Scream: Apply a 75%~80% Killer Instinct effect instead of a 15%. A big boost in enmity as well. 2 min duration.


This has potential - if they placed the focus on maxing out our killer effects across the board, it would fit in with SE's vision of a defensive buff for the master. :) And then as a side effect we could benefit from Gausape +2 usage for a 25% damage spike, while we intimidate the heck out of our foes. I would still lament that it only affects 7 mob families, but it'd be better than Stoneskin... and it would be more... Beastmaster-y. I dunno! Keep those ideas comin'!

[Byrth]

Drk's new 2 hour needs to be at least doubled in duration, if not tripled. 90 seconds would probably be really good.

Most of the new 2-hours are compatible with the AF2+2 duration extensions, which are sometimes considerable. Smn Horn +2 doubles the duration of the new summoner 2-hour, for instance.

[deces]

Greetings!

The Development Team has returned from their summer break and has started preparing their responses in regards to all the feedback we have been receiving on the new 2-hour abilities.

To start off, I like to first share some changes that are being planned.
Beastmaster
We will be keeping the HP recovery and status ailment recovery as is, but we will be changing the reraise effect to a stoneskin effect. The strength of the stoneskin effect will vary depending on the pet. The idea is that Familiar will increase the pet’s offensive capabilities, while the new 2-hour ability will enhance the master’s defensive capability.
Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.
You want feedback here you go..
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26365-dev1135-Beastmaster-2-Hour-Ability-Comments-After-Testing.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/21482-dev1088-Beastmaster-two-hour-abilities

I do not think it is unreasonable to just merge this concept for the 2hour with wild run into one JA and make it something actually useful. and completely start over. With that said, Wild Run should of never been as bad as it is and this wtf JA will only dwarf it in failure. While the two combined could be useful in bad situations I don't see this warranting a 2hour restriction whatsoever.

Proposed 2 hour Primordial Instinct
If you really want to make it up to us Jugtmasters for your lies and nerfs, why not make a the new 2 hour boost whatever Job Traits the jug has to a higher level for a said amount of time? This would offer us the ability to maximize what each jug has to offer, every 2 hours. It is not game breaking for yully or falcorr to have THIII for when we are fighting a 24 hour spawn NM we need a drop from.
Job traits such as double Attack, fencer Tripple Attack evasion bonus Stout Servant would also get reflected boosts and whatever else jugs have that you keep hidden from us that we will never figure out.

PS: NO PET POOFING!

[Vagrua]

I don't see any reason to use the new BST 2-hour over Familiar with AF2+2 legs granting Haste+10 to my pet for 40 minutes. You should go back to the drawing board on it or just make it a separate ability with its own recast timer imo.

[Cljader1]

Most of the new 2-hours are compatible with the AF2+2 duration extensions, which are sometimes considerable. Smn Horn +2 doubles the duration of the new summoner 2-hour, for instance.

Shouldn't need to gear swap the body piece only for a little extra time on drk's 2hour, last I checked it was stated abyss cuirass +2 only gave 10 extra seconds to BW, unless that was proven wrong. The 10 measly extra seconds is the reason why I didn't complete this piece.

SE Please Read
What hell is drk suppose to do in 30 seconds, cmon SE show drk some respect. Every since the BW SE kraken club bulls**t you guys have had it out for drks. For example haste cap, Soul Eater nerf, AbsTP nerf, Its not too much to ask for extend duration for our 2hr, we have a high delay weapon and sec 30 seconds....does that make since too you.

[SpankWustler]

Suggestion: Reduce Flourish recasts to 4 seconds while the new Dancer 2-hour is in effect.

Suggestion: Allow the Warrior 2-hour to extend to Weapon Skill damage and extend the base duration to 1.5 minutes.

Until people messed with these on the test server, I actually assumed the Dancer and Warrior two-hour abilities would function the way you're suggesting they should. My thinking was that if they didn't affect recast and weapon-skills respectively, what would the point be in adding them at all?

As these abilities are at present, they just don't make sense. No one is going to use a damage-dealing ability that is the same as nothing five seconds in (Dancer) or worse than another option in every way (Warrior).

The horrible duration of the Warrior ability does make sense compared to other new abilities, at least; horrible durations seem to be the norm. I'd like to think there's some reason for that.

There isn't, of course, but I need to tell myself that there is.

[Siiri]

Most of the new 2-hours are compatible with the AF2+2 duration extensions, which are sometimes considerable. Smn Horn +2 doubles the duration of the new summoner 2-hour, for instance.

I was talking about DRK, which gets a 10 second boost with the relic +2. That is a joke for lack of better description.l

[Byrth]

I was talking about DRK, which gets a 10 second boost with the relic +2. That is a joke for lack of better description.l

Blood Weapon was useful for years and is only 30 second duration. This new 2-hour lets you potentially lock TP moves for monsters during a zerg. Imagine ADL without TP moves.

[Raucent]

Blood Weapon was useful for years and is only 30 second duration. This new 2-hour lets you potentially lock TP moves for monsters during a zerg. Imagine ADL without TP moves.

during said zerg unless the mob is almost immune to SE or BW we would be shooting ourselves in the foot damagewise by using the new 2hr

[Byrth]

during said zerg unless the mob is almost immune to SE or BW we would be shooting ourselves in the foot damagewise by using the new 2hr

Congrats on describing all new content. Plus, there may come a fight where PD and Embrava aren't enough to zerg it safely. This 2-hour is the next solution. 30 seconds of safety is worth more than doing slightly more damage.

[Minikom]

It was kind of rubbish when Twilight Set granted that.

Not everyone can get a Twilight set so this could be still useful, also sometimes while you change to Twilight set and die, reraise effect not work

[FrankReynolds]

Not everyone can get a Twilight set so this could be still useful, also sometimes while you change to Twilight set and die, reraise effect not work

anyone who has beast leveled can probably farm enough currency to buy a twilight set in a few days.

[Kristal]

Puppetmaster
The same enmity properties for the player version of Invincible and Benediction will be added.
(In cases where the head’s respective 2-hour ability will not work due to the combination of head and frame, such as a sharpshot head with a frame other than a sharpshot frame or a stormwaker head with a valoredge frame, we will be making it so Mighty Strikes is used.)


Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

What would PUPs like to see? A SINGLE ability that benefits ALL matons, something like Revitalizer. A one-shot ability that cures the maton to full, restores all MP, gives 300% TP and removes all negative status effects. Simple, elegant, and already in the game (when opening abyssea chests with Intense Soothing Light). It allows each automaton to do what it does best, without having angry villagers chase the horrible Frankenmaton with torches, pitchforks and rude gestures.
The current 2hr ability, Overdrive, does this as well. As weak as it is (it's barely on par with a 20min ability), it still gives each automaton an edge.

[cidbahamut]

Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

It needs to be said: You'll stop seeing these comments when the content being announced stops warranting such responses. Some of these two-hour abilities really were just that poorly thought out.

When you introduce the ability to smack yourself in the face with a hammer and ask for feedback, you aren't going to get responses of "we can improve its efficiency at knocking out teeth by doing X."
No, you're going to get responses of "What is this rubbish? Scrap this entirely and give us something good instead."
I don't know why you'd expect anything else to happen.

[Teraniku]

It needs to be said: You'll stop seeing these comments when the content being announced stops warranting such responses. Some of these two-hour abilities really were just that poorly thought out.

When you introduce the ability to smack yourself in the face with a hammer and ask for feedback, you aren't going to get responses of "we can improve its efficiency at knocking out teeth by doing X."
No, you're going to get responses of "What is this rubbish? Scrap this entirely and give us something good instead."
I don't know why you'd expect anything else to happen.

I already did when I commented on the new PLD 2 hour, You can keep it as is, but have the mob(s) attack only the PLD for the duration of the ability. This would actually make it useful in a non solo situation.

[Louispv]

anyone who has beast leveled can probably farm enough currency to buy a twilight set in a few days.

Or you know, a reraise earring.

[Flyinghippress]

Here's an idea:

To increase the Beastmaster's defensive capabilities, why not make the new "2 hour" a reverse Snarl while retaining the enhanced stoneskin?

Scenario:

My pet is about to die! Not good for BST! Oh no, still have 30 seconds left on Reward and my moogle drank my last DM! That's right, SE just gave me this new ability to save my hide in an oh-**** situation! *Uses new 2hr* Great, now the monster is focused on me instead! This stoneskin is keeping me alive just long enough to use Reward! *Uses reward* Great my pet is healed! *Uses Snarl* And the monster is back on my pet instead of me, just in time too because the last hit ate right through that stoneskin effect and nearly squished me!

[FrankReynolds]

Looks like the JP thread says stoneskin will be half the pets hp.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Looks like the JP thread says stoneskin will be half the pets hp.

So Faithful is about ~2400 StoneSkin.

[Byrth]

That's more useful for zergs than Familiar, but it still wouldn't really give BST a place in zergs.

[FrankReynolds]

So Faithful is about ~2400 StoneSkin.

Yeah, I don't think that will keep you alive for long vs anything that made you need it in the first place ; ;

[Okipuit]

Greetings!

During this week’s Test Server update we will be making the below changes and additions to the new 2-hour abilities.

New 2-hours will be added to the below jobs:


Bard/Samurai/Blue Mage/Corsair/Scholar

*Currently there is a known issue wherein using the 2-hour abilities for bard, blue Mage, and scholar via the action command menu will result in not being able select the target properly. (In regards to blue mage, the spells for Unbridled Learning are grayed out and cannot be selected.)
We apologize for this, but please use the above job’s abilities and blue magic with either command line execution or macros.

Effect adjustments:


Paladin
Addition of an enmity increase effect equivalent to Invincible
(We understand the feedback about the enmity cap, but we would like to look into and address this separately from the 2-hour abilities.)


Beastmaster
Reraise effect will be changed to a Stoneskin effect
(The strength of the Stoneskin effect will differ depending on the type of jug pet called, and will be half of the pet’s max HP.)

While this week’s update will only encompass the above changes, we are continuing to look into other jobs as well, so there is a possibility for further changes and adjustments.

[Demon6324236]

Paladin
Addition of an enmity increase effect equivalent to Invincible
(We understand the feedback about the enmity cap, but we would like to look into and address this separately from the 2-hour abilities.)

I'm sorry Oki but you need to tell the devs this is a bad idea. They can not move forward with any enmity based abilities without first establishing that enmity in itself is worth paying attention to. As of right now as you said you have feedback about the enmity cap, I would suggest that be focused on rather than making abilities based around enmity itself because so long as more things are made for enmity its just more things that will need to be changed and tweaked again in the future if enmity itself is fixed.

If this ability is released before changes to enmity I fear the ability will be pointless until such a change is made, at which point the ability may function under a new law of order and not work properly or in a balanced nature. So while I am happy to hear you have heard the feedback players have given on the subject of enmity, I regret to say the 2-hour should probably be held back a bit until this issue is resolved, or it could have problems following the update that fixes enmity.

[Cljader1]

Greetings!

During this week’s Test Server update we will be making the below changes and additions to the new 2-hour abilities.

New 2-hours will be added to the below jobs:


Bard/Samurai/Blue Mage/Corsair/Scholar

*Currently there is a known issue wherein using the 2-hour abilities for bard, blue Mage, and scholar via the action command menu will result in not being able select the target properly. (In regards to blue mage, the spells for Unbridled Learning are grayed out and cannot be selected.)
We apologize for this, but please use the above job’s abilities and blue magic with either command line execution or macros.

Effect adjustments:


Paladin
Addition of an enmity increase effect equivalent to Invincible
(We understand the feedback about the enmity cap, but we would like to look into and address this separately from the 2-hour abilities.)


Beastmaster
Reraise effect will be changed to a Stoneskin effect
(The strength of the Stoneskin effect will differ depending on the type of jug pet called, and will be half of the pet’s max HP.)

While this week’s update will only encompass the above changes, we are continuing to look into other jobs as well, so there is a possibility for further changes and adjustments.

Wanna throw Dark Knight a bone???

[Kari]

Beastmaster
Reraise effect will be changed to a Stoneskin effect
(The strength of the Stoneskin effect will differ depending on the type of jug pet called, and will be half of the pet’s max HP.)


Are the devs really ignoring us this hard, that this is making it to testing?
This job ability is WORTHLESS.
It would still be worthless on a 1 minute timer.
It would still be worthless if it DIDN'T kill your pet.

There is no BST anywhere that cares for a heal + stoneskin at ANY POINT when they have a PET.
BST needs an entirely different 2 hour, as well as DNC.

[Ophannus]

Wanna throw Dark Knight a bone???

Are you trolling? The DRK 2hr is probably the best of the new 2hrs and is potentially one of the stongest 2hrs in the game in terms of how it increases your damage and how it inhibits the enemy. Testing shows it drains 30-50 TP per hit which means now only are you gonna be WSing a lot more, but the mob's TP moves will be completely inhibited. Throw on Tactician's Roll/Adoloquiem/Embrava and this new 2hr and you're gonna basically be spamming weapon skills. Now imagine 5 DRKs in an alliance using this move during perfect defense embrava. Normally during perfect defense the mob only had TP moves to really hurt an alliance, now the alliance will be impervious for those 30 seconds while the DRK's plunders all the TP the mob has been getting from being hit by zerging DDs. Now compare that to the DRG 2hr which just enhances the wyvern and heals it to full(Spirit Link heals 90% of its HP) and it gives stronger breaths(breaths that were resisted like nuts for 10-90 damage will do 200ish for 60 seconds..whooo and healing breaths heal a bit more which is moot outside of solo or failwhms.)

[Vagrua]

Are the devs really ignoring us this hard, that this is making it to testing?
This job ability is WORTHLESS.
It would still be worthless on a 1 minute timer.
It would still be worthless if it DIDN'T kill your pet.

There is no BST anywhere that cares for a heal + stoneskin at ANY POINT when they have a PET.
BST needs an entirely different 2 hour, as well as DNC.

Just so you know, the JP forum thinks it should be revised as well so hopefully something will happen with all regions against it .

[Cljader1]

Are you trolling? The DRK 2hr is probably the best of the new 2hrs and is potentially one of the stongest 2hrs in the game in terms of how it increases your damage and how it inhibits the enemy. Testing shows it drains 30-50 TP per hit which means now only are you gonna be WSing a lot more, but the mob's TP moves will be completely inhibited. Throw on Tactician's Roll/Adoloquiem/Embrava and this new 2hr and you're gonna basically be spamming weapon skills. Now imagine 5 DRKs in an alliance using this move during perfect defense embrava. Normally during perfect defense the mob only had TP moves to really hurt an alliance, now the alliance will be impervious for those 30 seconds while the DRK's plunders all the TP the mob has been getting from being hit by zerging DDs. Now compare that to the DRG 2hr which just enhances the wyvern and heals it to full(Spirit Link heals 90% of its HP) and it gives stronger breaths(breaths that were resisted like nuts for 10-90 damage will do 200ish for 60 seconds..whooo and healing breaths heal a bit more which is moot outside of solo or failwhms.)

People said the same sh*t when drks was SE, BW, Krakken Clubbing AV into the grave, until that was nerfed. The moment this 2hr hit some resistance it was it will start to suck hard. Drk 2hrs are too short 30secs in not enough time for a high delay weapon like a scythe. You need 2-3 scythe swings just to get a ws, and how much time does that take??? Sam original 2hr (Meikyo Shisui) is better than this crap, you dont have to swing your great katana at all to get your ws's. Absorb tp spell do not stop mobs from doing wss, even when you use the regular old absorb-tp spell on fodder mobs they still use tp moves at low health. Sam's (meikyo Shisui) is better than this and its not even close

A Proposed Fix
Double the duration of drk's new 2hr, and remove the HP penalty for souleater.

[Economizer]

(We understand the feedback about the enmity cap, but we would like to look into and address this separately from the 2-hour abilities.)

Is it safe to read far too much into this now?

[deces]

Greetings!

During this week’s Test Server update we will be making the below changes and additions to the new 2-hour abilities.

New 2-hours will be added to the below jobs:
[list]

Bard/Samurai/Blue Mage/Corsair/Scholar

Are you kidding me? Jeastmasters's 2hour JA has gotten way more negative feedback than all jobs combined! Is willy wanka in charge there hello! This JA will never met the par of a 2 hour, just merge it with Wild Run and start over!

[hiko]

I'm sorry Oki but you need to tell the devs this is a bad idea. They can not move forward with any enmity based abilities without first establishing that enmity in itself is worth paying attention to. As of right now as you said you have feedback about the enmity cap, I would suggest that be focused on rather than making abilities based around enmity itself because so long as more things are made for enmity its just more things that will need to be changed and tweaked again in the future if enmity itself is fixed.

If this ability is released before changes to enmity I fear the ability will be pointless until such a change is made, at which point the ability may function under a new law of order and not work properly or in a balanced nature. So while I am happy to hear you have heard the feedback players have given on the subject of enmity, I regret to say the 2-hour should probably be held back a bit until this issue is resolved, or it could have problems following the update that fixes enmity.

are you saying that fixing enmity outside of under 2H is a bad idea or are you saying that every job update should be delayed after enmity is fixed?( = 0job update for next few month)

them working on fixing it is good news no matter when we get it.

[Sasaraixx]

are you saying that fixing enmity outside of under 2H is a bad idea or are you saying that every job update should be delayed after enmity is fixed?( = 0job update for next few month)

them working on fixing it is good news no matter when we get it.

Neither. He is saying that it is pointless (and counter productive) to introduce a job ability that focuses on enmity when the enmity system needs work. If the devs are aware that the enmity cap needs to be addressed, then why add enmity based 2hr abilities for multiple jobs? They will be ignored by the player base and will end up being adjusted after the enmity system changes anyway.

This is obviously a large undertaking and I hope it is toward the top of the list of priorities. I think adding the element of enmity management/manipulation to the flow of battle would really spice up combat and give some jobs a new role to play. Obviously they don't want to make it so that DD's and BLM's can go crazy while the mob always stays locked on the Paladin, so they will have to tread carefully.

[Ophannus]

People said the same sh*t when drks was SE, BW, Krakken Clubbing AV into the grave, until that was nerfed. The moment this 2hr hit some resistance it was it will start to suck hard. Drk 2hrs are too short 30secs in not enough time for a high delay weapon like a scythe. You need 2-3 scythe swings just to get a ws, and how much time does that take??? Sam original 2hr (Meikyo Shisui) is better than this crap, you dont have to swing your great katana at all to get your ws's. Absorb tp spell do not stop mobs from doing wss, even when you use the regular old absorb-tp spell on fodder mobs they still use tp moves at low health. Sam's (meikyo Shisui) is better than this and its not even close

Wrong. This 2hr hasn't shown to get resisted. Also it drains all the mob's TP with a cap of 55ish so in a few hits the mob is TPless. Absorb TP only takes 50% of the mob's current TP and subject to magic resistances so thats why mobs can TP at low HP, it'll never take more than 50% of its current TP.

Also if you're using Last Resort, have embrava and using a greatsword like you should(LOLSCYTHE) you're hitting a great deal in 30 seconds.

[Demon6324236]

Neither. He is saying that it is pointless (and counter productive) to introduce a job ability that focuses on enmity when the enmity system needs work. If the devs are aware that the enmity cap needs to be addressed, then why add enmity based 2hr abilities for multiple jobs? They will be ignored by the player base and will end up being adjusted after the enmity system changes anyway.

Exactly. Basically if they release the new 2-hour for PLD now it will have little to no use. Even if they fix enmity, the ability will likely need adjusted to work properly, which will take even more time. Thats not to mention other jobs like THF which get enmity based 2-hours as well, making even more abilities just worthless. Releasing them now would be nice but some either need reworked to not rely on enmity or they are just adding abilities that will likely have next to no use for months until they do fix enmity, and fix the 2-hours afterwords.

[Tamarsamar]

Wait a minute. If BRD is getting a new-new 2-hour, can RDM have BRD's old-new 2-hour? It's certainly better than what we have applied at the moment.

[Kari]

Wait a minute. If BRD is getting a new-new 2-hour, can RDM have BRD's old-new 2-hour? It's certainly better than what we have applied at the moment.

I think you guys are largely confused.
There is no new-new 2 hour, those jobs didn't have their new 2 hours on the test server previously. Only a select few 2 hours are being added to the test server at a time.
All they're doing is adding those abilities you saw before for testing.

[Demon6324236]

I'm sorry Oki but you need to tell the devs this is a bad idea. They can not move forward with any enmity based abilities without first establishing that enmity in itself is worth paying attention to. As of right now as you said you have feedback about the enmity cap, I would suggest that be focused on rather than making abilities based around enmity itself because so long as more things are made for enmity its just more things that will need to be changed and tweaked again in the future if enmity itself is fixed.

If this ability is released before changes to enmity I fear the ability will be pointless until such a change is made, at which point the ability may function under a new law of order and not work properly or in a balanced nature. So while I am happy to hear you have heard the feedback players have given on the subject of enmity, I regret to say the 2-hour should probably be held back a bit until this issue is resolved, or it could have problems following the update that fixes enmity.

I forgot to say, I am not saying that adding Enmity to the new 2-hour is bad. I am saying treating them as separate problems is bad. I would like to see the enmity added to it still, but please treat them as the same problem at the same time, otherwise even if the Enmity is added it will not matter much if at all.

[FrankReynolds]

This saying comes to mind:
If you don't have time to do it right the first time, how are you going to find the time to do it twice?

Basically they can either:

fix enmity > add new abilities
or
add new abilities > fix enmity > fix abilities

I think some prioritizing is desperately needed. Changing the abilities once people have gotten used to them can piss a lot of people off, if done wrong. Not only that, but doing the 2hrs before the larger enmity fix creates more work on the back end. To be honest, most of the enmity based 2hrs suck and should be changed to 5 - 15 minute recast J/A to make room for an ability deserving of a 2hr recast.

[Cljader1]

Wrong. This 2hr hasn't shown to get resisted. Also it drains all the mob's TP with a cap of 55ish so in a few hits the mob is TPless. Absorb TP only takes 50% of the mob's current TP and subject to magic resistances so thats why mobs can TP at low HP, it'll never take more than 50% of its current TP.

Also if you're using Last Resort, have embrava and using a greatsword like you should(LOLSCYTHE) you're hitting a great deal in 30 seconds.

This 2hr is not that good especially when you compare it to sam's 2hr, you only get 30-50 tp per hit and with that being said it takes 2-3 attack round to get a ws. Moreover if the mob have no tp the 2hr is basically a glorified subtle blow. I heard alot of people talking about how this is a great Zerg 2hr, which is not true if the mob has no more tp there is no more zerg. Sam old 2hr greatly out zerg drk's 2hr, and I dont even want to talk about the hate spike. Blood Weapon is better adleast you can rock SE for free, and it adds more HP absorption which allows you to recover more quickly from those SE Ws's. Moreover, why should drks have to rely on another job's 2hr (embrava) to make our 2hr any good? Increase the duration please! Sam old 2hr > Drk new 2hr

[Theytak]

I realize I'm a few dayslate to the party, but;


Beastmaster
We will be keeping the HP recovery and status ailment recovery as is, but we will be changing the reraise effect to a stoneskin effect. The strength of the stoneskin effect will vary depending on the pet. The idea is that Familiar will increase the pet’s offensive capabilities, while the new 2-hour ability will enhance the master’s defensive capability.

For a bst, who's pet is their primary line of defense, I don't really understand how "killing your pet" is a logical defensive ability, no matter how much damage that stoneskin absorbs.


Puppetmaster
The same enmity properties for the player version of Invincible and Benediction will be added.
(In cases where the head’s respective 2-hour ability will not work due to the combination of head and frame, such as a sharpshot head with a frame other than a sharpshot frame or a stormwaker head with a valoredge frame, we will be making it so Mighty Strikes is used.)

That doesn't fix the issue with mighty strikes not being worthwhile, it just spreads it around. I don't have any issue with the enmity if you insist on keeping those two, but honestly, well, see my next response.


Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

I can only speak for the jobs I regularly play, so I'm not going to suggest new ideas for every job, but the ones I play, I can. Also, please keep in mind that at this point in time, 2hours are really only worth using against NMs. Giving us an awesome 2hour that only works against regular mobs defeats the purpose of the ability, because by level 99, we no longer have any need for 2hours against regular EXP fodder.

WAR: Consider what war already has, and what this ability has to compete with. War is a heavy DD with very little in terms of innate defensive ability (defender is laughable). Mighty Strikes is a very powerful offensive buff. It's understandable that creating an equal offensive buff is not really easy. I admit, I can't really think of another ability to replace war's current new 2hour with; at least not one that another job doesn't already have (seriously, rehashing job abilities doesn't give us "new" abilities). The only effect that could compete with mighty strikes would be "Greatly increases the rate of double attacks" but given the weapons warrior uses, that could very easily be overpowered.

Perhaps, rather than a directly offensive, or directly defensive ability, you could give use something like a super-sized Break WS (ie: greataxe's shield/armor/weapon/full break); but rather than low damage and simple stat debuffs, it would basically be like enhanced Eagle Eye Shot for warrior. By this I mean, it would be one, big hit (about the same damage as a decent ws, like raging rush if using a gaxe), instant use JA (and no missing, please, a 2hour that can miss is functionally stupid) that would inflict a short duration, potent, by which I mean that it can land on anything, no matter how brokenly powerful the NM is otherwise, amnesia effect. Essentially, a real weapon breaking ability; hit the enemy so hard that it jars them and prevents them from using TP moves for 15~30 seconds. Of course, to be properly balanced, it could be set so that it only works once per fight, after which the enemy would resist the amnesia effect, so that it can't be used to lock monsters and take the challenge out of the fight. This would essentially force the war to choose between their own damage, or everyone's survival.

Of course, you could always give this ability to one of the less desired jobs, instead, to at least give them something to be more desired for.

MNK: The problem here lies mostly in how counters work. This ability, while nice on paper, only really defends from melee attacks. Lately, anything this would be worth using against only poses a threat through it's constant spam of TP attacks and Ga/Ja spells. The only NMs where this ability would really be worthwhile are those that use hundred fists, any other time, the monk using hundred fists themselves is going to be more useful. Honestly, I like this ability on paper, but I know that it won't be worth using in practice, because it won't have any relation to TP moves. Perhaps simply adjusting it, so that while the ability is active, each successful counter reduces the enemy's TP rather than increasing it, or giving it some way to at least partially negate enemy TP moves, such as reducing their damage by some amount and having counter proc when hit by a damaging TP move. Not really sure.

PUP (And a little love for bst): This is the big one for me. If you translate nothing else from my post, because I realize I have a tendency to write novels, translate this portion. Puppetmaster, though a pet job, is a job that favors the PLAYER, not the PET. BST is the reverse of pup, favoring the pet over the player. Giving BST an ability that favors the master, and pup a second ability that favors the pet, is completely backwards. BSTs want a new 2hour that does something for their pet. PUPs want a new 2hour that does something for the player.

Pup already has to deal with having an absolutely terrible 2hour (I could go in to great detail with just how many things are wrong with overdrive, but this is not the thread for it). It's cute that the devs want to give us this little copycat 2hour gimmick, but after testing them to find that, point for point, 4 of them were functionally weakened versions of the 2hour they were supposed to be.
Manafont gives us nothing because we never run out of mp anyway.
Chainspell is heavily hindered by the 4 second global recast, and also costs our puppet's ability to not cast the same failed spell over and over.
Eagle Eye Shot's damage formula was flat out reduced (changing it is understandable, to account for the difference in pet and player ranged attacks, but the amount it was reduced is just silly).
Mighty Strikes cannot be used by the only puppet with any real ability to melee, without noticeably hindering that puppet's ability to function and the damage it deals.
Invincible was entirely unnecessary for valoredge, because of all the puppet's, it's the only one that doesn't have significant problems staying alive against most things, and it's really not even that good of a tank.
Benediction, while nice, is also limited by how rare it is we actually have need to use soulsoother in a party situation.

Instead of 6 cloned 2hours given to a pet at reduced effect, pup's new 2hour should openly benefit the player. I've already lined out one idea, I think in this thread, though it may be elsewhere, that would essentially be similar to a spiritsurge effect; sacrificing the pet to buff the master based on the maneuvers they had active or the puppet they were using. Using that as a basis, I came up with this idea:

An ability that augments maneuver effects, and either allows the pup to temporarily use maneuvers without their pet (and consumes the puppet inthe process) or temporarily grants the puppet immunity to damage while also revoking their ability to be deployed (and thus, do anything at all, other than stand there). The augmented maneuvers would give the pup either an Aura effect, a Sphere effect, or both, depending on how that all works, but basically, each maneuver would buff the party members near by in some way, with the potency depending on the number of maneuvers active
- Fire Maneuvers: Regain and/or a Sizeable chunk of attack bonus that stacks with others
- Thunder Maneuvers: Crit Hit Rate and/or Damage, or Double/Triple attack rate
- Wind Maneuvers: Job Ability Haste (It would -have- to be JA haste. Gear haste and Magic haste would completely defeat the benefit, because they're already easily gained from multiple other sources)
- Earth Maneuvers: Physical Damage Taken -
- Water Maneuvers: Magical Damage Taken -
- Ice Maneuvers: Either MAB, Fast Cast, or some other magically inclined effect
- Light Maneuvers: Regen
- Dark Maneuvers: Refresh or outright MP cost reduction (NOT conserve MP)

Ideally, these effects would impact the master as well, but even if they didn't, they (primarily the fire/thunder/wind effects, earth/water/light to a lesser extent) allow pup to negate the rather significant amount it trails in terms of damage output relative to other heavy DD jobs in endgame events simply by the nature of increasing everyone's damage. The buffs would have to be strong enough to negate the loss in damage of using an effectively pet-less pup in place of a different melee job, but that's really not too difficult to do.

[Prothscar]

I would offer a suggestion: Enhance the new BLU 2hr.

It's literally worthless. None of the Unbridled Learning spells are powerful enough to warrant multiple casts, nor are they worth chaining together. Several reasons:

1) They aren't powerful enough to call for it. This ability does not alleviate the issue at all as it does not enhance or augment Unbridled Learning spells in any way whatsoever.

2) The new 2hr does not cut the MP cost of the spells, thus you'd run out of MP incredibly quickly

3) The new 2hr does not cut the recast times of the spells, thus you wouldn't be able to cast the same spell more than twice.


So effectively, we've gotten a 60 second duration ability that we can use every 2 hours to cast 1 or 2 spells that leave minimal impact on myself, my party, and the monster instead of using Azure Lore to enhance the power of my other spells that don't suck. Great, thanks.

[SpankWustler]

To precede my complaining with some positivity, the adjusted Paladin ability is going to be solid in the few places it will ever be used. All signs point to it doing a ton of damage...as far as Paladin job abilities go.

The new Bard two-hour is actually stronger than I expected. I can't imagine when it will ever be used rather than Soul Voice, but if it ever is, no one will be disappointed!

I feel like I just gave a bottle-cap medal to the tallest midget at the state fair.

Now, moving onto some real pessimism and bitterness!


I would offer a suggestion: Enhance the new BLU 2hr.

It's literally worthless. None of the Unbridled Learning spells are powerful enough to warrant multiple casts, nor are they worth chaining together. Several reasons:

1) They aren't powerful enough to call for it. This ability does not alleviate the issue at all as it does not enhance or augment Unbridled Learning spells in any way whatsoever.

2) The new 2hr does not cut the MP cost of the spells, thus you'd run out of MP incredibly quickly

3) The new 2hr does not cut the recast times of the spells, thus you wouldn't be able to cast the same spell more than twice.


So effectively, we've gotten a 60 second duration ability that we can use every 2 hours to cast 1 or 2 spells that leave minimal impact on myself, my party, and the monster instead of using Azure Lore to enhance the power of my other spells that don't suck. Great, thanks.

This. I want to reiterate all of this.

Also, the stuff under Unbridled Learning is just too niche to want to use it all at once.

I don't want to raise my own defense using Harden Shell while I lower a monster's INT with Gates of Hades. I don't need the Defense Down from Bilgestorm if I can cast a working Tourbillion directly after. I don't want or need to use Absolute Terror if I just used Thunderbolt, because Absolute Terror is single target and doesn't work on Notorious Monsters!

The real life analogue of this magical ability would be a magic ability that let a me simultaneously park my car in a tree, learn what Lady Gaga's favorite date ever would be, refill my cat's food dish, trigger a gas leak somewhere in New Jersey, perfectly cook an order of French Fries, learn what Anthony Bourdain's favorite date ever would be, dump four gallons of boiling oil on a random person somewhere in Arkansas, and change into my cleanest and most visually appealing pair of underpants.

In case it isn't clear, I'm saying that the effects of various Unbridled Learning spells are situational at best and even the good ones very rarely work together.

It would help the new Two-Hour and Unbridled Learning in general to add a few spells simply meant to deal damage to Unbridled Learning. Having something unique to fill the dead air between two, at most, niche spells that work well together in a given situation would go a long way towards making me ever use this new Two-Hour.

If changes should be specific to the Two-Hour itself, anything and everything that makes the Unbridled Learning spells better in a general sense while the Two-Hour is active would help. The spells are all over the board, so damage boosts or recast reductions or MP cost reductions or duration boosts or even accuracy/magic accuracy boosts would help.

Honestly, the real challenge at this point would be making it worse.

[SpankWustler]

Some brief feed-back on a few other new two-hour abilities, separated from the other post because it was long and meant to be about one thing in detail:

The new Red Mage two-hour is good on a conceptual level, but it falls short in execution. It functions similar to Soul Voice, and it seems meant to accomplish something similar to Soul Voice or Embrava, so it should be similar to those abilities in terms of power and duration.

The new Dragoon two-hour would be a lot more impressive if it could bypass the innate Breath Damage Taken -% that every Notorious Monster added recently seems to have. I don't know if this would make the ability good, but I know it would become a lot better.

[Keinn]

A 2 hour ability that consumes your pet on a job that relies on having a pet is silly.

Why couldn't new BST 2hour be something like: Your pet will use a 2 hour ability based on pet's job (WAR uses Mighty Strikes, THF uses Perfect Dodge, MNK uses Hundred Fists, PLD uses Invincible)

[Demon6324236]

A 2 hour ability that consumes your pet on a job that relies on having a pet is silly.

Why couldn't new BST 2hour be something like: Your pet will use a 2 hour ability based on pet's job (WAR uses Mighty Strikes, THF uses Perfect Dodge, MNK uses Hundred Fists, PLD uses Invincible)

"Why didn't BST get PUP's 2-hour!?" Not that I disagree, just what it sounded like.

[Keinn]

The "!?" aside, pretty much. :3

[Louispv]

"Why didn't BST get PUP's 2-hour!?" Not that I disagree, just what it sounded like.

Yeah, I asked for that on page 2.

[Economizer]

Also, the stuff under Unbridled Learning is just too niche to want to use it all at once.

An idea for the Blue Mage 2hour if it hasn't been said already... let Blue Mage use ALL of their spells during the duration, not just the ones set and the Unbridled Learning abilities. This would instantly make it more useful without having to wait for new Unbridled Learning spells in the future to get to use.

Maybe this wouldn't be right, but I think it should be considered as an option.

[Cljader1]

An idea for the Blue Mage 2hour if it hasn't been said already... let Blue Mage use ALL of their spells during the duration, not just the ones set and the Unbridled Learning abilities. This would instantly make it more useful without having to wait for new Unbridled Learning spells in the future to get to use.

Maybe this wouldn't be right, but I think it should be considered as an option.

I would agree, SE showed themselves to be real lazy with the construction of these new 2hrs. Wasn't the purpose of the new 2hrs to make up for the lack of power and usefulness of the old 2hrs. Didn't the SE player base come to a consensus that the game has passed the old 2hrs by, thf cant PD ranged atts, pld invincible useless against magic, Drk BW ineffective against all undead, pup 2hr is just sad, blm manafront shouldn't even be a 2hr. These 2hrs was suppose to be replaced, because the old 2hrs were outdated. The new 2hrs are all basically disappointing, lackluster and void of any creativity. Only a select few is good..

SE you can't let these new 2hrs go live they are embarrassing, add some more creativity and usefulness to these 2hr built and based on the thematic of the given job.

[Economizer]

Didn't the SE player base come to a consensus that the game has passed the old 2hrs by

I thought SE wanted more options for players. Many of the old 2hours are quite good actually. Perfect Dodge allows a Thief to pull melee mobs in for a group without getting hurt (and pulling ranged attackers isn't really possible, even if this issue should be fixed). Invincible grabs hate and allows a Paladin to take extreme melee damage without nary a scratch. Dark Knight's 2hour allows them to use Souleatter the way it was meant to be used, and the majority of the time their 2hour is lacking is from nerfs to Souleatter rather then problems with undead. Manafont eliminates the chance for a Black Mage to have their spells interrupted by melee strikes, which is incredibly useful.

Obviously not every current 2hour is good, but many are (even ones that could use a fix or two are for the most part OK), which is part of the problem with releasing new ones, especially if they're not so hot - they have to compare to the good ones. And for bad 2hours replacing bad 2hours, it leaves the job without a good 2hour in general.

Astral Flow is incredibly good, and the new 2hour option Summoner will get is incredibly good (from what I've seen so far anyways). I think that Summoner's 2hours should be a model for what the rest should be with options.

Many of the old 2hours could use some work too, but saying they're all bad isn't exactly the truth. Not all of the new 2hours are bad either, which is why when one isn't up to par it stands out.

[Cljader1]

Most of the old 2hrs are better than the new ones, from reading these job forums there are a considerable amount of people dissatisfy with there job's 2hr.

[Okipuit]

Good morning!

We just wanted to give a brief update regarding monk’s new 2-hour ability and apologies that it is taking a bit to implement it onto the Test Server.
We are currently making adjustments for how AoE damage will be handled while this new ability is active. We performed various tests to see if we could make it possible to counter AoE attacks, but there were some difficulties with log recognition, so we decided to look into an alternative effect. Our objective is to implement this with the next Test Server update and we are working very hard so everyone can try it out!

[SpankWustler]

Good morning!


We are currently making adjustments for how AoE damage will be handled while this new ability is active. We performed various tests to see if we could make it possible to counter AoE attacks, but there were some difficulties with log recognition, so we decided to look into an alternative effect. Our objective is to implement this with the next Test Server update and we are working very hard so everyone can try it out!

Just put the guy who did most of the work on Voidwatch in charge of it, and it'll be done within a day. He has more experience with AoE's and logs than anyone in the universe.

...

Ow! Stop hitting me! The joke wasn't that bad!

[Kari]

^Best response.

Also, discussion is about how bad these 2 hours are, rep posts about 2 hour that nobody cares about. AWW YEAH.

[Helel]

If you're the one who designed the game, how is it possible to not be able to implement something based on your design? I could care less about the 2-hour; it just makes me wonder what other job abilities/spells/etc. suffer because the dev team is unable to program certain features.

[Darkvalkyr]

I honestly have been feeling that a lot of things were tossed in for the heck of it/vague reasoning instead of any consideration of actual gameplay with these 2 hours. Especially with these additional/bonus effects.

[Theytak]

Good morning!

We just wanted to give a brief update regarding monk’s new 2-hour ability and apologies that it is taking a bit to implement it onto the Test Server.
We are currently making adjustments for how AoE damage will be handled while this new ability is active. We performed various tests to see if we could make it possible to counter AoE attacks, but there were some difficulties with log recognition, so we decided to look into an alternative effect. Our objective is to implement this with the next Test Server update and we are working very hard so everyone can try it out!

Question to clarify: Do you mean a new effect in response to AoE attacks, or a completely new effect for the two hour. Given precedence, I'm assuming the former, because my gut tells me that getting any of these abilities scrapped and a completely different effect granted is unlikely at this point.

[Babekeke]

100% counter rate is not a bad 2 hour anyway and doesn't need scrapping... well, it's situationally good anyway, like when fighting a mob that's going to hundred fists you^^

I'm just waiting for when this 2 hour doesn't work vs machines since their melee attacks count as TP moves >.>

[SpankWustler]

A 100% Counter-rate isn't that great, either, considering it is not hard to approach or hit the 80% cap on Counter-rate already.

Any additional effects the Development Bros can add to this ability would be welcome, just to make it a more potent improvement.

Also, I'm hoping against hope that the stuff the Development Bros learn from messing with this will help them adjust things so AoE "auto-attacks" can be treated more like normal auto-attacks rather than the abilities they technically are.

[Kristal]

Instead of 6 cloned 2hours given to a pet at reduced effect, pup's new 2hour should openly benefit the player. I've already lined out one idea, I think in this thread, though it may be elsewhere, that would essentially be similar to a spiritsurge effect; sacrificing the pet to buff the master based on the maneuvers they had active or the puppet they were using.

I wouldn't mind boosting the automaton with a 2hr, as long as it actually was worth using it. I'm not even using Overdrive, the effects are too short and too small to consider it for those ohshyte moments.

[Merton9999]

Good morning!



Just put the guy who did most of the work on Voidwatch in charge of it, and it'll be done within a day. He has more experience with AoE's and logs than anyone in the universe.

...

Ow! Stop hitting me! The joke wasn't that bad!

Best post ever. I don't even care about the MNK 2-hour.

[Okipuit]

Hey everyone,

The new 2-hours were developed based on the idea that they would share the existing 2-hour ability's recast timer and players would be selecting which ability to use based on the situation. Instead of these being a higher-tier or universal abilities that can be used for any situation, they are abilities that are designed to be used for specialized conditions.

Below are the envisioned applications of some abilities as well as planned adjustments.


Warrior
While Mighty Strikes offers a lot of physical damage through critical hits for a period of time, the idea was to add a way to attack enemies that have strong resistances to physical damage.

Based on testing and feedback, we are planning to make adjustments to extend the effect duration to 60 seconds. (Planning to make this change during this week’s Test Server update.)


Paladin
The new 2-hour ability can be used for cases where just turtling up with Invincible and letting an enemy wail on you will not turn the tides of the fight, since you can enhance your defenses while reducing an enemy’s HP with the reflected damage.

*As mentioned previously in the post about adding an enmity boost effect to this ability, we understand the problems with the enmity cap. We plan on considering this for paladin in general and not limiting it only to the new 2-hour ability effect.


Bard
In addition to INT and MND, we will also be adding CHR to the stats that are lowered.


Samurai
Meikyo Shisui excels in instantaneous power. On the other hand, the new 2-hour ability is for cases where an enemy's AoE damage is too strong and getting close is dangerous. It will allow you to evade special attacks while dealing damage.

*Magical attacks will not be evaded, but will be made so that the damage received is 0. This will not have any effect on breath attacks, though.

With this ability we are aiming to make it possible to have a stable way of fighting by increasing defensive capabilities and diverting your time in battle towards enhancing offense capabilities.


Dancer
Trance is an ability that allows the player to take advantage of Waltzes and Steps, while the new 2-hour ability makes it possible to utilize Flourishes to the maximum. The advantage of this ability is that it makes it possible to always use the maximum effect for Building Flourish, Reverse Flourish, Climatic Flourish, etc., as you are granted 5 finishing moves.

There have been requests asking for the recast times for Flourishes to be reduced or removed. The reason we did not do this is as you can expect, due to consideration for Reverse Flourish.
While it's not our intention to allow for weapon skills to be used continuously without limitations, it would be nice to be able to utilize Flourish II and Flourish III continuously, so we will be changing the effects as outlined below to allow for instantaneous damage.


Reduce effect duration from 60 seconds to 30 seconds
In addition to the Flourish recast timer being reset, it will be possible to use Flourish continuously up to a total of 3 times.
The effect will wear off when either 30 seconds elapses or Flourish is used 3 times.



During this week's Test Server update, we will be adding white mage's 2-hour ability as well the warrior adjustment listed above and fixing related bugs.

We are planning to address the bard and dancer adjustments in the following Test Server update.

Amongst the feedback we have been receiving, there have been a lot of comments about changing the effects, reducing the 2-hour recast time, removing the shared recast timer aspect, and other ideas for largely changing the concept. It may take a bit of time to discuss and look into all of these, but we are planning to spend time on this without rushing implementation so that these are abilities that everyone is satisfied with.

[ThaiChi]

Bard
In addition to INT and MND, we will also be adding CHR to the stats that are lowered.


What's the effect of lowering CHR anyway? I would have thought lowering AGI or VIT would be a more practical stat to affect.

[Byrth]

It makes it easier to land BRD debuffs. It's actually pretty amusing that it wasn't part of the original 2-hour.

WAR: The 2-hour still doesn't affect WS damage, so it still isn't worthwhile. Warriors have about a 50/50 WS/TP damage split. Assuming Crits double damage (which they will against any enemy that is worth 2-houring), then the monster would need to have more than 75% PDT for the new 2-hour to be worth using.

Not only that, but you've already given us the necessary tool to invalidate this 2-hour entirely, Tomahawk. If a monster has 100% PDT and you Tomahawk it, for a little while it has 70% PDT. If 75% PDT is the cut-off, then Tomahawk + Mighty Strikes (30% with AF2+2 feet and 5/5 merits) is better than using this 2-hour.

You need to make this 2-hour apply to weapon skills too.

PLD: You aren't proposing a change, but I'm interested in hearing about potential changes to the enmity system. Please don't make them Paladin specific.

BRD: Okay, that was a pretty obvious change considering it's the only way to make the 2-hour give BRD an equal advantage. I approve!

SAM: I don't know if this avoids Tera Slash's additional effect (WSs received during 2-hour still hit for 0), but if it does then the 2-hour is entirely justified.

DNC: I'm not really sure what you're saying here. We can use 3 Flourishes back to back? Okay, that's nice I guess. It's pretty much a gimp Meikyo Shisui then? Definitely better than what we had. I would recommend extending the duration back to 60 seconds and reducing all flourish recasts, but you've already clearly decided not to do that.

[Hashmalum]

What's the effect of lowering CHR anyway? I would have thought lowering AGI or VIT would be a more practical stat to affect.Lowering the target's resistance to BRD spells. It would seem really odd if after using BRD's big 2 hour weakening ability on a target, it became more susceptible to every type of magic except BRD songs.

[Kalilla]

The development team needs to make sure that players will use these abilities. There would be nothing more insulting to players than adding new 2 hours that we'll never use.

[Chamaan]

On behalf of every warrior everywhere: Please tell the developers that if they really believe a complete immunity to damage is balanced with a worse version of Formless Strikes, we're happy to swap abilities with samurai and call it a day.

This warrior two hour offers nothing to warriors that MS can't do with the raw physical power Mighty Strikes (and Tomahawk, as Byrth pointed out). You asked for other suggestions, we gave them. Pick one please and use it instead of your idea.

[Windwhisper]

This thread could use the picture of the dartboard where every default field is "boost SAM".

jokes aside. SAMs new 2h is very powerful. in comparism to their new 2h most pf the other new ones look like a good laugh.

[Hashmalum]

The development team needs to make sure that players will use these abilities. There would be nothing more insulting to players than adding new 2 hours that we'll never use.Not just insulting, but every ability slot, every byte of memory used on an ability no one wants will prevent countless possible future improvements from being made for years to come. And of course developer time is all too scarce these days, so that must not be wasted either. I honestly believe that no new ability at all is better than one that is bad.

[Sunrider]

Greetings!

Thanks for all the feedback thus far on the new 2-hour abilities.
Along with the feedback from the test server, we will be sure to utilize it for further adjustments.

In regards to effect durations and values, they will most likely be adjusted before they are implemented to the live server so please try them out first on the test server and get a feel for them. We are looking forward to hearing your thoughts after testing them out.

We are getting closer to the final stretch to implement these abilities on the test server, so hang in there just a bit longer.

Additionally, we made a few corrections to two of these new abilities. (The original list posted yesterday has been corrected as well.)


RDM:
Incorrect: Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.

Correct: Grants an increase to the effect of enhancing magic.

Regarding the RDM two-hour, there are reports that the effect increase is less than 2x. This is unacceptably underwhelming. The new two-hour should not offer less than triple potency, and should apply to all Enhancing magic, from Protect to Gain spells. Anything less is worthless compared to Chainspell. The new two-hour, while in effect, should also be immune to dispelling effects.

Merits should adjust the duration of the Job Ability while in effect, the duration of which should start at a minimum of a minute, to account for the time spent actually casting the spells. The duration of the affected spells should be enhanced by Composure.


RDM has always been more of an enfeebler, if anything SCH is more of an enhancer. Give us this 2Hr so I can enjoy the delicious irony of having a 2Hr that would double the potency of Embrava, but never will since their recasts are linked. Well I assume they're linked at least, and their effects wear off if you use the other 2Hr to avoid exploiting COR to stack two 2Hrs.Players need to stop regurgitating this falsehood. RDM was never an enfeebling specialist, nor has S-E ever advertised it as such; if there was ever a point that the dev team implied it was or should become a better enfeebler(over other jobs with the same potential), I'd welcome a source to that reference.

Until merits, RDM didn't even have tier 2 Paralyze/Slow/Blind effects, NIN got tiers one and two natively, as well as a tier 2 poison effect parallel to RDM. BRD has always had more unique enfeebles in it's songs, as well as a more powerful slow. BLM had native control of the elemental DoTs, where RDM didn't. DRK had Stun and Absorbs, PLD had Flash. Until merits, the only unique enfeeble in RDM's powers was Gravity. Not to mention that, prior to WoTG, WHM, BLM, and SMN had superior native INT and MND stats to improve potency of said spells, to include a slightly more exclusive equipment inclusion (and example here would be Seer's from the Promathia era). Even DRK has superior Dark magic skill for superior Bio damage.

More importantly, with the exception of three or four spells, most of these enfeebles were underwhelmingly inefficent against most boss-level monsters. It was the unique combination of Bio, Poison, Gravity and Bind that made RDM any sort of threat. In the time after Aht Urgan, even this was made irrelevant.

It's the players alone under the delusion that RDM is some kind of enfeebling specialist; everyone was desperate to easily label the class and simply latched on to it's A ranked Enfeebling skill, the usefulness of which is debatable.

[Amokzz]

RNG needs some love the new 2h is nothing special, its at best 15min JA material and our old 2h does half the dmg of an Aftermath Crit...

A full enmity reset on top of the new 2h would be a way in the right direction.

[Shiyo]

Samurai
Meikyo Shisui excels in instantaneous power. On the other hand, the new 2-hour ability is for cases where an enemy's AoE damage is too strong and getting close is dangerous. It will allow you to evade special attacks while dealing damage.

*Magical attacks will not be evaded, but will be made so that the damage received is 0. This will not have any effect on breath attacks, though.

With this ability we are aiming to make it possible to have a stable way of fighting by increasing defensive capabilities and diverting your time in battle towards enhancing offense capabilities.
Stop designing bosses/NM's that require everyone to be invincible or else they get 1 shot by unavoidable AOE. This is unfun for both the melee AND the mages, but even more unfun for mages.

We should not have to employ PD/sam 2 hour strats in order to beat things, damage should be both avoidable AND curable, not unhealable and unavoidable. It seems you actually ENJOY designing bosses this way, as you are adding new ways for players to be invincible and still deal damage. Why?

Please realize how mind numbingly boring it is as a mage/support job to play in PD/embrava 2 hour zerging environments.

[Nala]

Not just insulting, but every ability slot, every byte of memory used on an ability no one wants will prevent countless possible future improvements from being made for years to come. And of course developer time is all too scarce these days, so that must not be wasted either. I honestly believe that no new ability at all is better than one that is bad.

QFT and forwarded to the "To the director" thread, made a few general points about useless abilities while at it x.x hopefully I'm not speaking crazy /sigh.

[Zadimortis]

It greatly concerns me that Beastmaster's new 2-hour is not on the list.

They must actually, legitimately think it's okay.

[Shibayama]

So, I'm confused. Is the new Dancer 2 hour going to be finished once any flourishes are used 3 times, or does each category get 3 uses?

Either way I don't really see this as being too useful for content like Neo-Nyzul. Lets be serious, the concept of this 2 hour should be offence vs trance's defensive use, not "Well this one makes use of flourishes like how trance uses waltzes and steps just because!"

So I would propose adding one of the following additional effects to the DNC's 2 hour in addition to the reset-timer / 3 re-use flourish effect one of the following ways:

1) While under the effect of the 2 hour, doubles all damage output from the dancer.

Since pretty much all of our flourishes are combat related, this has good synergy with the concept of having this 2 hour be offense related. Just being able to use 3 combat flourishes back-to-back isn't enough to make DNC desireable for events - this would atleast give dnc some zerg potetial.

2) While under the effect of the 2 hour, makes any effects the dancer receives from enhancing flourishes AoE.

Remember how dancer was originally supposed to be a front-line support job? Apparently the devs don't since all we've been getting are solo damage boosting abilities lately. This ability would help get dancer's to lots of events and would justify the short duration. The ability to shoot 200-300 tp into the other melee or pass on some forced crits to sam weaponskills with climactic would help incorporate DNC into a melee-zerg 2 hour strategy nicely. Most importantly, this has a large benefit for dnc who don't have rudras, while also giving those who do a nice boost!

I understand that the devs have envisioned certain uses for each new 2 hour with an offensive use, now you have to ask:

Exactly what content situation would this ability be needed for? Right now even with the changes, this has no desirability or synergy for strategies, thus giving players no real reason to seek out a dancer for events. Other than needing to quickly finish off a mob solo, I can't see a situation where this would be useful - I'm tired of dancing solo, and I already have an ability on a 3 minute timer that lets me use Reverse/building/climactic to the maximum effect!

[Calamity]

The bst community would still like to hear a practical application for killing our pet for stoneskin. Enlighten us please?

[FrankReynolds]

Players need to stop regurgitating this falsehood. RDM was never an enfeebling specialist, nor has S-E ever advertised it as such; if there was ever a point that the dev team implied it was or should become a better enfeebler(over other jobs with the same potential), I'd welcome a source to that reference.

Until merits, RDM didn't even have tier 2 Paralyze/Slow/Blind effects, NIN got tiers one and two natively, as well as a tier 2 poison effect parallel to RDM. BRD has always had more unique enfeebles in it's songs, as well as a more powerful slow. BLM had native control of the elemental DoTs, where RDM didn't. DRK had Stun and Absorbs, PLD had Flash. Until merits, the only unique enfeeble in RDM's powers was Gravity. Not to mention that, prior to WoTG, WHM, BLM, and SMN had superior native INT and MND stats to improve potency of said spells, to include a slightly more exclusive equipment inclusion (and example here would be Seer's from the Promathia era). Even DRK has superior Dark magic skill for superior Bio damage.

More importantly, with the exception of three or four spells, most of these enfeebles were underwhelmingly inefficent against most boss-level monsters. It was the unique combination of Bio, Poison, Gravity and Bind that made RDM any sort of threat. In the time after Aht Urgan, even this was made irrelevant.

It's the players alone under the delusion that RDM is some kind of enfeebling specialist; everyone was desperate to easily label the class and simply latched on to it's A ranked Enfeebling skill, the usefulness of which is debatable.

Red mage was labeled an enfeebling class, because it was the best bet for landing enfeebles on a high level mob. All the other jobs you named had better things to do during a big fight than worry about landing enfeebling magic. Not to mention the fact that most of them weren't as good at landing them with the exception of one or two spells. I don't know what you thought red mage was, or what you thought it should be, or what the devs thought it was. But, it was there to enfeeble and cast haste / refresh %99 of the time and do whatever else you thought it was supposed to do the other %1. Devs can call it a flying pig if they want, but if it walks like a duck...



On Topic: The adjustments to dancers 2 hour seem pretty blah. I'm not even sure where that you would use this outside of just trying to make some cool numbers on your screen. Perhaps we could get some details as to how the devs plan on having this used, because it looks to me like it should just be a short recast offensive ability. Maybe to get just one more kill before getting timed out of dynamis? I dunno.

[Xilk]

The bst community would still like to hear a practical application for killing our pet for stoneskin. Enlighten us please?

Come on, that's easy. When you are fighting a BIG NM and a BIG AoE is about to wipe you out, and your pet is going to die, you can pop it and survive that BIG hit while everyone else andyour pet dies...

You know for zerg situati.. ohyeah... right....

[Sunrider]

Red mage was labeled an enfeebling class, because it was the best bet for landing enfeebles on a high level mob. All the other jobs you named had better things to do during a big fight than worry about landing enfeebling magic. Not to mention the fact that most of them weren't as good at landing them with the exception of one or two spells. I don't know what you thought red mage was, or what you thought it should be, or what the devs thought it was. But, it was there to enfeeble and cast haste / refresh %99 of the time and do whatever else you thought it was supposed to do the other %1. Devs can call it a flying pig if they want, but if it walks like a duck...What you're talking about is the roles players forced the class into, not what it is actually tailored to do. SMN could land Silence on Suzaku as reliably as a RDM, would you call it an enfeebling specialist then? RDM was the most popular choice for healer in after Aht Urgan, did that make it a more specialized healer than WHM?

The players might have popularly chosen the RDM to enfeeble, but that didn't make it specialized nor properly equipped for the task, much less in the face of superior enfeebling powers on other classes, such as the examples I previously mentioned. Nothing you said invalidates my statements.

[Hashmalum]

It greatly concerns me that Beastmaster's new 2-hour is not on the list.

They must actually, legitimately think it's okay.I share your concern. I'm also concerned that Red Mage's new 2-hour is not on the list, because unlike Beastmaster's fundamentally misconceived ability, RDM's is actually fixable, and most of the fixes are trivially easy to do. It needs to last long enough for us to cast all the spells it can boost, the potency enhancement needs to be higher, and the enhanced spells need to be undispellable like Embrava is. Of those three things, the first two are just numbers. And nobody should say the third is impossible or too hard; after all, there are even certain monsters that use the same TP moves to put up undispellable buffs. (For example, look at the crabs in Walk of Echoes conflux #1--they use the same TP moves as normal crabs, but the Defense Boost status from their Scissor Guard is undispellable, whereas for normal crabs anywhere else, it can be dispelled easily.)

[FrankReynolds]

What you're talking about is the roles players forced the class into, not what it is actually tailored to do. SMN could land Silence on Suzaku as reliably as a RDM, would you call it an enfeebling specialist then? RDM was the most popular choice for healer in after Aht Urgan, did that make it a more specialized healer than WHM?

The players might have popularly chosen the RDM to enfeeble, but that didn't make it specialized nor properly equipped for the task, much less in the face of superior enfeebling powers on other classes, such as the examples I previously mentioned. Nothing you said invalidates my statements.

It is what it is guy. You can tell everyone your a ballerina if you want, but that doesn't mean your gonna be in the next presentation of the nut cracker.

It doesn't matter what the devs say a job is supposed to be. It only matters what the job can do well. You can say red mage shouldn't be an enfeebler, but that's not gonna make them a DD or an enhancer, or whatever else you wish it was.

[Kari]

DNC: I'm not really sure what you're saying here. We can use 3 Flourishes back to back? Okay, that's nice I guess. It's pretty much a gimp Meikyo Shisui then? Definitely better than what we had. I would recommend extending the duration back to 60 seconds and reducing all flourish recasts, but you've already clearly decided not to do that.

Yeeeeah. At least this is BETTER than the piece of crap we were going to get.
However, I'd definitely like to see some improvements. I'm glad to see we'll be able to do more with this, but there is NO REASON to not use this 2 hour for 3 Reverse Flourishes. I mean, if it's supposed to give us full use of Flourishes, I'd love to be able to do a few Building + Climactic WSs while Reversing for more TP, but with only 3, I'm going to Climactic before 2 houring, then use 3 Reverses. Building would be a waste at that point.

[Glamdring]

The development team needs to make sure that players will use these abilities. There would be nothing more insulting to players than adding new 2 hours that we'll never use.

you mean like the beast one? If I want stoneskin I'll /whm or /rdm and keep my pet tyvm.

[Demon6324236]

Hey everyone,

The new 2-hours were developed based on the idea that they would share the existing 2-hour ability's recast timer and players would be selecting which ability to use based on the situation. Instead of these being a higher-tier or universal abilities that can be used for any situation, they are abilities that are designed to be used for specialized conditions.I wish I could say thats what these are, or that there were alot of different situations in this game right now, sadly to say that would be a lie.
Below are the envisioned applications of some abilities as well as planned adjustments.Please tell me how some of these should work, like RDM, or BST. Please tell me how they are being adjusted to make them worth using over our current ones, or over other jobs abilities.
While Mighty Strikes offers a lot of physical damage through critical hits for a period of time, the idea was to add a way to attack enemies that have strong resistances to physical damage.As many have said, Mighty Strikes will do more damage in almost any case than this especially because this does not work on Weapon Skills. The only situation in which this is worth while is when you have a constant permanent Amnesia effect on you!
Based on testing and feedback, we are planning to make adjustments to extend the effect duration to 60 seconds. (Planning to make this change during this week’s Test Server update.)On top of this, add the effect to Weapon Skills. Its really sad that the best 2-hour you could come up with for WAR is just a copy of a Merit Job Ability for another job!
The new 2-hour ability can be used for cases where just turtling up with Invincible and letting an enemy wail on you will not turn the tides of the fight, since you can enhance your defenses while reducing an enemy’s HP with the reflected damage.The problem is the defense needs to be enough to keep you alive, while damage has to be enough to actually matter, any case you would even think of 2-houring as a PLD for a defensive maneuver, you would be taking to much for you to just block alone. Not to mention, that in any case this game has got to the point with tanking where if you want damage done, the DDs hit it, if the PLD is tanking it, damage is not being done, or needed.
As mentioned previously in the post about adding an enmity boost effect to this ability, we understand the problems with the enmity cap. We plan on considering this for paladin in general and not limiting it only to the new 2-hour ability effect.As mentioned previously in the post following your last. Adding enmity to this effect means nothing as of now, and means nothing if you add these abilities before fixing that problem. If my power is out, and I plug in a toaster I just bought from Wal-Mart its not doing any more for me at my house than it was when it was sitting on the shelf at the store. I am happy the problems are understood, or you think they are, but just understanding them means nothing, because until something is actually done about it anything relevant to it will have to be changed again later anyways.
In addition to INT and MND, we will also be adding CHR to the stats that are lowered.Still not a ton of uses for this that I see when compared to the overwhelming power of Soul Voice buffs, but however, I will leave you to it, not every ability is meant for zerging or melee power, and its nice to see a mage that helps other mages.
Meikyo Shisui excels in instantaneous power. On the other hand, the new 2-hour ability is for cases where an enemy's AoE damage is too strong and getting close is dangerous. It will allow you to evade special attacks while dealing damage.So basically this is Perfect Dodge, it lets you evade all attacks, all, attacks, and gives you more power on your Weapon Skills on top of it for each you dodge. Do you see how much of a slap in the face that is to THFs? THFs get to dodge, but they get no stronger and they do not dodge everything thrown at them.
Magical attacks will not be evaded, but will be made so that the damage received is 0. This will not have any effect on breath attacks, though.What the hell is this? You already made this 2-hour better than both Invincible, and Perfect Dodge, but now, you allow a SAM to not even be effected by magic!? I thought it was bad that you stole the Merit Job Ability of MNK, and made it a 2-hour for WAR, but now you have made a 2-hour that is effectively Perfect Dodge, Invincible, Perfect Defense, and Impetus, all in a single ability! For people who preach balance, you sure have a shitty sense of it.
With this ability we are aiming to make it possible to have a stable way of fighting by increasing defensive capabilities and diverting your time in battle towards enhancing offense capabilities.With this ability you threw balance out the window for 5 minutes and thought you would create the single most powerful 2-hour ability in the game for any non-supportive job!
Trance is an ability that allows the player to take advantage of Waltzes and Steps, while the new 2-hour ability makes it possible to utilize Flourishes to the maximum. The advantage of this ability is that it makes it possible to always use the maximum effect for Building Flourish, Reverse Flourish, Climatic Flourish, etc., as you are granted 5 finishing moves.How about you grant unlimited Finishing Moves for the duration. Maybe then it will be a little better off, instead of an instant 5 alone.
There have been requests asking for the recast times for Flourishes to be reduced or removed. The reason we did not do this is as you can expect, due to consideration for Reverse Flourish.
While it's not our intention to allow for weapon skills to be used continuously without limitations, it would be nice to be able to utilize Flourish II and Flourish III continuously, so we will be changing the effects as outlined below to allow for instantaneous damage.I understand your not wanting us to be able to WS back to back, that would be terrible for something that lasts 1 minute, and may only be used every 120 minutes, which means at most 1 time in any event in the entire game that I have ever been made aware of. Not only that, but you could limit it, maybe give us 5 times we can use Flourish abilities at no cost during its duration, with no cool-down on them either, that should be fair for its duration/recast of the entire ability.
Reduce effect duration from 60 seconds to 30 secondsWhy is it that any time you start to enhance an ability that sucks, you make the duration go to shit in return for its effect. Again, we get at most 1 use in any event in the game unless you are counting on the luck of a Corsair to give you another use of it.
In addition to the Flourish recast timer being reset, it will be possible to use Flourish continuously up to a total of 3 times.3 times... not worth a 2-hour recast yet again. Really, please look at the limitation you put on these effects. Look at the power that Perfect Defense gives, or Embrava, these make sense, they are amazing powers and give you a real enourmous boost, not to 1 person, but an entire party or Alliance! This is lack luster yet again.
The effect will wear off when either 30 seconds elapses or Flourish is used 3 times.I don't even feel like replying to this, for lack of words. All I can say is make it last the full duration no matter what, it shouldn't make a giant difference.
During this week's Test Server update, we will be adding white mage's 2-hour ability as well the warrior adjustment listed above and fixing related bugs.

We are planning to address the bard and dancer adjustments in the following Test Server update.You have alot more adjusting to do for them to be balanced or worth-while. As for WHM's, when under the effect of it, every party member better be immune to every status effect in the game. If not, this will be stupid, it should become the ultimate shield against ailments, end of story.
Amongst the feedback we have been receiving, there have been a lot of comments about changing the effects, reducing the 2-hour recast time, removing the shared recast timer aspect, and other ideas for largely changing the concept. It may take a bit of time to discuss and look into all of these, but we are planning to spend time on this without rushing implementation so that these are abilities that everyone is satisfied with.I am happy you want to make everyone happy. I am sorry to tell you that you have a very, very, very, long way to go before that happens, because alot of your abilities are terrible right now, or need worked on so much they could become worth while. The worse part in all of this, is that alot of them could easily be fixed such as RDM's, yet we still have no word on them, and so far as it seems they will be made even worse before better. I look forward to the next post on these abilities, as I want to tell you yet again my opinion on them. From how things seem to be changing around here, I feel as though my opinion is finally worth voicing. So please expect a long, thought out, reply from me each time I see a post of interest.

[Tanama]

I would love to hear the dev's input on the DRG 2-hour. As it stands now it is very insignificant to be called a two-hour. It's more along the lines a beefed up Spirit Link.

[Luvbunny]

All these new 2 hours are rather bad, some even downright atrocious. All EXCEPT Samurai.... which pretty much got a brand new 2 hours that is as potent as 4 other jobs old 2 hours..... Could you please go back to the drawing board and come up with a better idea, one that does not suck this bad. And please fix the new 2 hours for Red Mage and Beastmaster for crying out loud. The whole communities already said what they have to say and how to fix these, but it seems that you do not even want to consider any of the suggestion at all....

[Ophannus]

New BLU 2hr could benefit from a fulltime "Diffusion" effect during its duration that allows Harden Shell and Pyric Bulwark to become AoE for the party and a massively potent accuracy bonus for spells should be added so we don't have our physical spells 'miss' and fail to take effect on difficult mobs.

[Cljader1]

Hey SE can you please discuss drk, the drk community would love to hear your vision for the job class, and how you intend both 2hrs to function. As of right now drk's new 2hr is a embarrassment and does not provide the power I believe you intended it to have. Sam old 2hr is so much better than drk's new 2hr. With the 2hr activated we have to land 2-3 attacks to gain one ws is laughable when a sam goes from 0 to 300tp instantly. Furthermore, sam get to do 3 ws with there 2hr no matter what, while drk struggles to get anything close to 3 ws. lastly If the mob has no tp to drain the ability is almost useless. What the rational behind drk's new 2hr? Which one is our zerg 2hr? Or do we even have a zerg 2hr?

Having a tp drain on melee attacks as a 2hr is so underwhemming, what made you think of that?? Its a cheap version of Meikyo Shisui without the instantaneous power

[Demon6324236]

Hey SE can you please discuss drk, the drk community would love to hear your vision for the job class, and how you intend both 2hrs to function. As of right now drk's new 2hr is a embarrassment and does not provide the power I believe you intended it to have. Sam old 2hr is so much better than drk's new 2hr. With the 2hr activated we have to land 2-3 attacks to gain one ws is laughable when a sam goes from 0 to 300tp instantly. Furthermore, sam get to do 3 ws with there 2hr no matter what, while drk struggles to get anything close to 3 ws. lastly If the mob has no tp to drain the ability is almost useless. What the rational behind drk's new 2hr? Which one is our zerg 2hr? Or do we even have a zerg 2hr?

Having a tp drain on melee attacks as a 2hr is so underwhemming, what made you think of that?? Its a cheap version of Meikyo Shisui without the instantaneous power

The HP one sucks, only a counter balance for Souleater which is your real power, or at least was when it was good. TP one is good, it locks the enemy down by draining its TP and making it your own, effectively removing your enemy from being able to use their TP dependant attacks while giving you the power to destroy your enemies. This is even more improved by the fact everything is now a zerg, which means mobs are getting tons of TP, and you are draining even more of it off the mobs for you to use in your zerg.

[Calysto]

i have to agree that dnc 2h seems like a poor sam 2h.

also, why reduce the duration when you put another limit to 3 uses ?
that's just telling us "burn it like a sam" while it could have a little more strategic use given the chance to see how the fight goes.
you can't even use flourishes 1 without wasting at least a third of it.

if you want theses new 2h to be on par with the old... i'd say you better improve some of the old 2h instead of making some of the new as bad.

[Cljader1]

The HP one sucks, only a counter balance for Souleater which is your real power, or at least was when it was good. TP one is good, it locks the enemy down by draining its TP and making it your own, effectively removing your enemy from being able to use their TP dependant attacks while giving you the power to destroy your enemies. This is even more improved by the fact everything is now a zerg, which means mobs are getting tons of TP, and you are draining even more of it off the mobs for you to use in your zerg.

Without ws's there is no zerg, waiting 2-3 attack rounds for a ws during a 30 second 2hr is hardly a zerg, and lord forbid if you miss. 30 seconds is to short, duration should be longer, and there should be no penalty for souleater while the 2hr is active

[Cljader1]

i have to agree that dnc 2h seems like a poor sam 2h.

also, why reduce the duration when you put another limit to 3 uses ?
that's just telling us "burn it like a sam" while it could have a little more strategic use given the chance to see how the fight goes.
you can't even use flourishes 1 without wasting at least a third of it.

if you want theses new 2h to be on par with the old... i'd say you better improve some of the old 2h instead of making some of the new as bad.

At least you dont have to drain your flourishes from the mob, because is dnc was treated like the bastard child that is drk you'll pull your hair out.

[Cljader1]

Twilight Scythe > War new 2hr

[Sunrider]

It is what it is guy. You can tell everyone your a ballerina if you want, but that doesn't mean your gonna be in the next presentation of the nut cracker.

It doesn't matter what the devs say a job is supposed to be. It only matters what the job can do well. You can say red mage shouldn't be an enfeebler, but that's not gonna make them a DD or an enhancer, or whatever else you wish it was.First off, a ballerina may not perform in the Nut Craker, but that doesn't make her any less a ballerina.

I'm not disputing what the players push onto a job, what I'm saying is that whatever the players want to believe, the mechanics are more honest--I'm not even talking about what I wish it was, I'm simply looking at what's always been there.

An example would be pre-Aht Urgan exp parties--everyone was hard up to spend ten minutes at a time taking out IT+ mobs, it was a while before someone had the bright idea to chain T-VTs for lower but faster exp at greater net gains. The mechanics were always available to net better exp on weaker mobs, even if we ignored it.

I'll put it this way: you can use the end of a screwdriver to hammer nails, and if its your heart's desire you can hammer stuff with that screwdriver butt all day long... but in the end, its just not a very good hammer. You can call RDM an enfeebler all you want, but that still doesn't change the fact that--given it's tools and comparing jobs with similar, exclusive, or even superior tools--RDM is and always was a mediocre enfeebler. Now, that doesn't stop anyone from using it to enfeeble exclusively; I'm simply saying that was never what the class was suited for, that's just not it's specialty. And--given that RDM was never particularly designed to be a superior enfeebler, adding that it was never intended or advertised to be--then its as absurd and unproductive to beg for enfeebling updates as it has been to beg for AoE powers.

And for the record, RDM's enhancing powers have always been head and shoulders above it's enfeebling capabilities, otherwise it wouldn't be so famous for it's survivability.

[SpankWustler]

The new 2-hours were developed based on the idea that they would share the existing 2-hour ability's recast timer and players would be selecting which ability to use based on the situation. Instead of these being a higher-tier or universal abilities that can be used for any situation, they are abilities that are designed to be used for specialized conditions.

This is definitely apparent with the better of the new abilities, but some of them just lack potency or are based on situations that never arise. I'll give three specific examples.

The Good: Bard - Good concept and good execution! While melee damage being favored over magic damage make this new ability very situational, it does exactly what it is meant to do.

This ability tears the magic defense and resistance of monsters apart in a situation where Soul Voice would have...uh...added a few more INT to people one at a time? This is a good situational ability.

The Bad: Warrior - A good concept that ends up being less potent than a current option. Unless the new ability affects weapon-skill damage, it will be worse than Mighty Strikes + Tomahawk for all situations.

Literally the only time this new ability would pull ahead is if a Warrior made the horrible decision of using Ukko's Fury (Raging Rush) instead of Upheaval (King's Justice) while Mighty Strikes was active in that situation. Please, don't balance new abilities around people doing something horribly wrong.

The Ugly: Beastmaster - Something in the concept itself is flawed. Beastmaster is already a defensive powerhouse and doesn't need a defensive ability that sacrifices the pet.

A level 86 sheep that costs me less than 1,000 gil could probably survive Vana'diel's equivalent of full-on nuclear war if my little tarubroro were hiding in a safe spot with Pet: -% Damage Taken stuff on, and that sheep would still have the energy to attempt to mate with a nearby Carbuncle and re-populate the earth. Other stuff is even heartier than that!

Beastmaster doesn't need more defense in any sense, much less defense that requires giving up its best defense even for a moment. Giving up the pet for a large amount of damage over a short time would be a much better pet-sacrifice concept.

[Demon6324236]

Without ws's there is no zerg, waiting 2-3 attack rounds for a ws during a 30 second 2hr is hardly a zerg, and lord forbid if you miss. 30 seconds is to short, duration should be longer, and there should be no penalty for souleater while the 2hr is active

You miss the point. Right now if you do Legion or ADL you want Perfect Defense because you want to survive TP attacks they throw at you along with normal hits. A DRK with this ability can put a lock down on a mobs TP, and make their own zerging power faster & more deadly with it. Normally while zerging ADL your waiting 4~5 hits for your WS, then you bust it out, and ADL uses his moves too which includes Tera Slash. Use this 2-hour, and now your WSing every 2~3 hits, without the fear of that Tera Slash coming down and instantly killing people. The same goes for Legion mobs which have this kind of thing going for them, it allows you to put a stop to them TPing and instead boost your own TP from it, allowing you to do more damage, and them to do less. The duration does suck but the ability in itself is very sound!

[Cljader1]

You miss the point. Right now if you do Legion or ADL you want Perfect Defense because you want to survive TP attacks they throw at you along with normal hits. A DRK with this ability can put a lock down on a mobs TP, and make their own zerging power faster & more deadly with it. Normally while zerging ADL your waiting 4~5 hits for your WS, then you bust it out, and ADL uses his moves too which includes Tera Slash. Use this 2-hour, and now your WSing every 2~3 hits, without the fear of that Tera Slash coming down and instantly killing people. The same goes for Legion mobs which have this kind of thing going for them, it allows you to put a stop to them TPing and instead boost your own TP from it, allowing you to do more damage, and them to do less. The duration does suck but the ability in itself is very sound!

So basically SE gave drk a situational 2hr to deal with ADL, and you assume this ability will not get any resistance. I dont understand why drk 2hr have to be so sitituational, en-tp drain....really. I can already get off absorb-tp off every 30 seconds, and before the absorb-tp nerf drks was able to absorb 100% tp in one shot without the 50% mob's current tp cap. If you want to control ADL why not line up 3-4 drks and alternately cast absorb-tp, most drk have around a 30 sec recast on the spell. But a en-tp drain with no other special buff is underwhemming and very very situational. I could understand the 30 sec duration if the en-tp drain also effected ws. But as it stands right now, drks main contributions is it zerg, SE needs to add an extra buff to this 2hrs like a percentage raise in str and att while the 2hr is active.

[Demon6324236]

So basically SE gave drk a situational 2hr to deal with ADL, and you assume this ability will not get any resistance. I dont understand why drk 2hr have to be so sitituational, en-tp drain....really. I can already get off absorb-tp off every 30 seconds, and before the absorb-tp nerf drks was able to absorb 100% tp in one shot without the 50% mob's current tp cap. If you want to control ADL why not line up 3-4 drks and alternately cast absorb-tp, most drk have around a 30 sec recast on the spell. But a en-tp drain with no other special buff is underwhemming and very very situational. I could understand the 30 sec duration if the en-tp drain also effected ws. But as it stands right now, drks main contributions is it zerg, SE needs to add an extra buff to this 2hrs like a percentage raise in str and att while the 2hr is active.

The reason why is because no matter what SE will never give us abilities worth the 2-hour timer itself, which is what you seem to want. The ability to lock down mobs TP attacks for that time while boosting your own damage seems good to me, it could obviously be better but at the same time ask for to much and you will get nothing, on the other hand, look at everything else they adjust, SE giveth, and SE taketh away, upgrade DNC? Psh~ give it something better but cut the duration in half, its just how they work, I am not saying the 2-hour is the best ever, but I am saying its better than what you could have gotten and its not all to bad.

[Raucent]

Scarlet Delerium says Hello

[Cljader1]

The reason why is because no matter what SE will never give us abilities worth the 2-hour timer itself, which is what you seem to want. The ability to lock down mobs TP attacks for that time while boosting your own damage seems good to me, it could obviously be better but at the same time ask for to much and you will get nothing, on the other hand, look at everything else they adjust, SE giveth, and SE taketh away, upgrade DNC? Psh~ give it something better but cut the duration in half, its just how they work, I am not saying the 2-hour is the best ever, but I am saying its better than what you could have gotten and its not all to bad.

Why should we take lackluster 2hrs, en-tp drain could probably be worked into a dark magic spell form with high recast, but it not a viable 2hr. I mean look at sch original 2hr now that a REAL 2hr, SE moved heaven and earth to rework there 2hrs. Why cant drk's ask for the same treatment, btw war new 2hr is crap too, I can do there 2hr with my twilight scythe and I have more than 30 seconds with it too. Can't you see the garbage that being given to us, when SE put there mind to something you get something like sch's Tabula Rasa. SE put the same time into drk like you do sch please, a 30 sec tp melee drain is just unacceptable.

[Tamarsamar]

So basically SE gave drk a situational 2hr to deal with ADL, and you assume this ability will not get any resistance. I dont understand why drk 2hr have to be so sitituational, en-tp drain....really.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/195/646/1320529223886.jpg

[Aldersyde]

The Ugly: Beastmaster - Something in the concept itself is flawed. Beastmaster is already a defensive powerhouse and doesn't need a defensive ability that sacrifices the pet.

A level 86 sheep that costs me less than 1,000 gil could probably survive Vana'diel's equivalent of full-on nuclear war if my little tarubroro were hiding in a safe spot with Pet: -% Damage Taken stuff on, and that sheep would still have the energy to attempt to mate with a nearby Carbuncle and re-populate the earth. Other stuff is even heartier than that!

Beastmaster doesn't need more defense in any sense, much less defense that requires giving up its best defense even for a moment. Giving up the pet for a large amount of damage over a short time would be a much better pet-sacrifice concept.

This so much. The new 2-hour is ugly and useless. I could get behind an ability that sacrifices my pet. I could get behind an ability that is defensive in nature. What I can't get behind is one that grants a defensive buff at the expense of the pet which only benefits the beastmaster.

Bst desperately needs something that gets them into party content, because as it stands now, it only gets invited to participate when people want a last spot filled after an hour of shouts or to pre-75 content where it doesn't really matter who comes on what jobs. Therefore, make the healing, status removal and stoneskin party-wide buffs when the pet is consumed (without modifying the high amount of stoneskin). This would make the concept at least somewhat useful (in that it would be at least better than what it is now), even if it's just in an "oh shit" type of situation. Of course, granting offensive buffs would be much better, such as att+, crit hit rate+, or crit hit damage+, something along the lines of what embrava did for sch.

But as it is now, giving up your pet for a defensive buff for the bst exclusively is just a bad ability and will never be used.

I'm also curious as to what the dev team thought the use of this ability would be when they dreamed it up. The gulf between how the devs think bst is played and how players actually play it seems to be really wide at the moment though.

[Demon6324236]

Why should we take lackluster 2hrs, en-tp drain could probably be worked into a dark magic spell form with high recast, but it not a viable 2hr. I mean look at sch original 2hr now that a REAL 2hr, SE moved heaven and earth to rework there 2hrs. Why cant drk's ask for the same treatment, btw war new 2hr is crap too, I can do there 2hr with my twilight scythe and I have more than 30 seconds with it too. Can't you see the garbage that being given to us, when SE put there mind to something you get something like sch's Tabula Rasa. SE put the same time into drk like you do sch please, a 30 sec tp melee drain is just unacceptable.

Tabula Rasa took how long before they added Kaustra & Embrava? You do know they didn't come with a SCH originally right? It was years before they were added, just like Alexander & Odin for SMN. The 2 best 2-hours in the game right now started as decent or bad 2-hours and turned into the best 2-hours in the game when they were added onto with abilities only able to be used under their effects, so using Embrava/Tabula Rasa as an example doesn't work so well.

As for WAR's, look at my extremely long reply to our latest info on these, I have part of that post as a response to the info on our wonderful~ 2-hour for WAR, its just Formless Strikes with a much longer recast. I'm not saying that we should just deal with the bad, I'm saying there are worse and you ignore the good your ability has. One of the most complained about parts of events right now is that everything has attacks that do way to much damage, this gives you the power to limit those massively by removing the TP from them as they get it, then fire it back at them for more damage than you had before. BST gets to gain defense by losing their best defense, RDM gets to have slightly stronger buffs that are barley better and the duration is to short to even buff properly, let alone others like Embrava does. Your not getting the short end of the stick, DRK is a nice 2-hour, there are much worse around right now.

Back when you originally posted you asked what their vision is for DRK, I cant tell you what their vision is, but I can tell you what I believe it to be. DRK is a job that takes its enemies power for its own, and turns the enemies power against them so they are easier to destroy. Examples of this are all throughout the job, Drain, Aspir, Absorbs, Dread Spikes, even the Mythic enhances those effects for your Absorbs, the job is about making your enemy weaker, while making yourself stronger, Blood Weapon did this too, as it stole their HP and gave it to you, and now this does the same but with TP, so you steal their TP, and make it your own weapon to crush them with!

[Karbuncle]

IF you leveled BST with the intent of it being a party job, You leveled the wrong job...

BST since inception has been the solo job of FFXI. Abyssea barely changed that for a little while, And even then in time, It once again became the solo job of FFXI.

While it could use some nice Party specific boosts i suppose, a 2hour would not be the solution to that.

[FrankReynolds]

First off, a ballerina may not perform in the Nut Craker, but that doesn't make her any less a ballerina.

I'm not disputing what the players push onto a job, what I'm saying is that whatever the players want to believe, the mechanics are more honest--I'm not even talking about what I wish it was, I'm simply looking at what's always been there.

An example would be pre-Aht Urgan exp parties--everyone was hard up to spend ten minutes at a time taking out IT+ mobs, it was a while before someone had the bright idea to chain T-VTs for lower but faster exp at greater net gains. The mechanics were always available to net better exp on weaker mobs, even if we ignored it.

I'll put it this way: you can use the end of a screwdriver to hammer nails, and if its your heart's desire you can hammer stuff with that screwdriver butt all day long... but in the end, its just not a very good hammer. You can call RDM an enfeebler all you want, but that still doesn't change the fact that--given it's tools and comparing jobs with similar, exclusive, or even superior tools--RDM is and always was a mediocre enfeebler. Now, that doesn't stop anyone from using it to enfeeble exclusively; I'm simply saying that was never what the class was suited for, that's just not it's specialty. And--given that RDM was never particularly designed to be a superior enfeebler, adding that it was never intended or advertised to be--then its as absurd and unproductive to beg for enfeebling updates as it has been to beg for AoE powers.

And for the record, RDM's enhancing powers have always been head and shoulders above it's enfeebling capabilities, otherwise it wouldn't be so famous for it's survivability.

The players didn't push it on the job. The job was designed to do a bunch of different things. It turns out that it was better at one of them than anyone else, so that became it's calling card. Red mage may have had a limited amount of unique enfeebles, but having all the spells in the world isn't going to help if you can't land them with any consistency, which red mage could and other jobs couldn't.

I don't care if you know everything there is to know about cooking and you have a degree in engineering and you can sing like mariah Carey while simultaneously winning the tour de France on a unicycle. If you show up in my driveway every Wednesday and empty my trash... Even if everyone you know is better than you at emptying trash. Even if you do a crappy job at it and get garbage all over the street. Even if you are far better at a million other things. You are not a singer or an athlete or an engineer or a chef. You are the garbage man.

Likewise, I don't care if bard can DD like crazy, or if red mage has lots of nifty buffs or if ninja can cast slow. That's not what their job is. I don't care about their side hobbies. I only care about what they bring to the group. That's how they get labeled tank, support, en-feebler. Maybe they will give Red mage some awesome new buffs that affect the party, or something that makes them an amazing DD, and then we can change the title to something else. But that's not what they were in the past and you can't change that. You can only change the future.

PS: If my hammer is wacky and misses the nail all the time, but the screw driver hits the nail on the head every time, then yes. I will build an entire house with a screw driver.

[Theytak]

Hey everyone,

The new 2-hours were developed based on the idea that they would share the existing 2-hour ability's recast timer and players would be selecting which ability to use based on the situation. Instead of these being a higher-tier or universal abilities that can be used for any situation, they are abilities that are designed to be used for specialized conditions.

Below are the envisioned applications of some abilities as well as planned adjustments.

Really? I gotta be honest, the devs didn't really think that logic through. The game, as it is now, does not possess the highly situational state of affairs it used to. It's like the dev team designed these abilities back in 2007 and just shelved them until now. Back then, honestly, they probably would have seen a fair amount of use. Today? not gonna fly. Unless they fully intend to return the game to the hypersituational state of affairs with Seekers of Adoulin, then there's really no justification for this, and even then, the players' mindset has changed so much that we're still not going to happily accept hyper situational abilities. Moderately situational but still useable with some frequency? Sure, those are always nice. However, most of these abilities are not even remotely close to that point.

Currently, the "specialized conditions" in which these abilities would be useful either do not exist or can only be found in one, singular instance. Giving us 2hours to deal with things that aren't in the game yet is stupid, especially if you're not going to tell us that you're planning that.


Warrior
While Mighty Strikes offers a lot of physical damage through critical hits for a period of time, the idea was to add a way to attack enemies that have strong resistances to physical damage.

Based on testing and feedback, we are planning to make adjustments to extend the effect duration to 60 seconds. (Planning to make this change during this week’s Test Server update.)

Like others have said, unless this is changed so that it also applies to weapon skills, mightystrikes + tomahawk will still be more useful against the mobs the devs are thinking of, especially because tomahawk helps every party member.


Paladin
The new 2-hour ability can be used for cases where just turtling up with Invincible and letting an enemy wail on you will not turn the tides of the fight, since you can enhance your defenses while reducing an enemy’s HP with the reflected damage.

*As mentioned previously in the post about adding an enmity boost effect to this ability, we understand the problems with the enmity cap. We plan on considering this for paladin in general and not limiting it only to the new 2-hour ability effect.
So, instead of turtling up with PDT-100%, you're turtling up with PDT-whateveryourshieldblocks% and reflecting some of the damage back. You said that you'd be adding enmity equal to invincible to it, and I may simply have missed it, but does the reflect damage generate any enmity? If it doesn't, it needs to. Broken enmity system or not, when you give pld an ability meant to deal damage, and it doesn't do the one thing pld needs dealing damage to do (generate enmity), it defeats the purpose.


Samurai
Meikyo Shisui excels in instantaneous power. On the other hand, the new 2-hour ability is for cases where an enemy's AoE damage is too strong and getting close is dangerous. It will allow you to evade special attacks while dealing damage.

*Magical attacks will not be evaded, but will be made so that the damage received is 0. This will not have any effect on breath attacks, though.

With this ability we are aiming to make it possible to have a stable way of fighting by increasing defensive capabilities and diverting your time in battle towards enhancing offense capabilities.

Get rid of the damage boost. This is already a very powerful defensive ability, the damage boost is absolutely overkill if you're going to make it that effective. Honestly, this sounds like a tank ability that you should have given ninja or pld, and if you had done that, you know full well there would have been no accompanying damage boost.


Amongst the feedback we have been receiving, there have been a lot of comments about changing the effects, reducing the 2-hour recast time, removing the shared recast timer aspect, and other ideas for largely changing the concept. It may take a bit of time to discuss and look into all of these, but we are planning to spend time on this without rushing implementation so that these are abilities that everyone is satisfied with.

It's very good, and VERY reassuring that you're willing to take the time to discuss and debate these abilities, and I'm absolutely thrilled that you've got no intention of rushing the process. Thank you for that. However, there are somethings that we absolutely need addressed before we can give much further feedback:

- We need to know what the deal is with your logic behind bst's new 2hour, because it is horribly inappropriate and inadequate, and we've really gotten nothing but silence and ambiguous mutterings about it. It makes absolutely no sense as a defensive ability. It's more akin to a suicide ability like mijin gakure. It's not just bst, either, the devs are being far to silent on the abilities as a whole, unless they decide to change them. We would greatly appreciate if they would make clear what there intentions were for each ability so that we can more easily understand what they're willing to give us and what we should be aiming for.

- We need to know how much you're leeway willing to give with these abilities. Is completely redesigning any of them even in the realm of possibility? Or are we stuck with these general ideas, and limited to adding to them and tweaking them to make them work more towards what we think would be useful?

- We need to know what the devs had in mind when they're creating these abilities. I'm not asking for "what new stuff are you planning to add" specifically, but "what types of new monsters are you planning to add that these abilities would suddenly be useful?" because most of the new 2hours don't seem to have been designed with current NMs and endgame events in mind. I'm not asking specifics, this is a matter of "you're obviously planning to change up how NM fights work, can you give us any hints/ideas as to what you've got in store so that we can give you better feed back on what we'd need to be able to respond to such fights?" This is a good thing, because it seems like the devs have recognized that right now, every fight is pretty much just negate all damage and kill it as fast as possible, which sucks all the fun out of the fights, but you can't give us this stuff and say "here's a bunch of super situational stuff you guys don't need right now. *wink*"

These three points, if nothing else, really need to be addressed if you want us to give you quality feedback, especially as to whether these abilities were planned around new, future content, rather than current existing stuff, because without that being explicitly stated, and giving us some idea as to what said content might entail, we're only going to be able to give feed back based on what we know, which is going to be "Perfect Defense, Embrava, KILLKILLKILLKILL" without question.

[Theytak]

Separated this from the other post because it's equally long and mostly unrelated


Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

Another idea to fix pup. This one is relatively simple, and covers both the new 2hour, and everything wrong with overdrive.

New 2hour:
Attunement: Duration 1:00
Effect: While active, any boosts the automaton gains from its attachments are applied to the player as well.

This is both deviously simple, and devilishly complex. It would essentially give player access to some of the very powerful tools the puppet has, but is unable to fully utilize, such as the offensive combination of target marker and attuner, as well as defensive tools like the armor plates and steam jacket. The idea is that while active, it shifts the focus nearly entirely to the master, and would be a great boon, but it still requires our pet to be there and the use of maneuvers. Now, obviously, certain things wouldn't apply, like attachments that influences things we simply don't have, like barrier module/hammermill/drum magazine, or the JA attachments (strobe/shock absorber/flashbulb). Whether or not it would include bonuses from maneuver absorbing abilities is the real question.

My idea for fixing overdrive is two fold.

First, instead of simply JA haste, include a global reduction in delay, that would also influence spellcasting recasts (specifically the 4 second global delay more than the individual category delays), and ranged attack rate. Essentially, this would give the ability a combined access to either a reduced hundred fists effect or a reduced chain spell effect depending on which puppet is being used, and if using sharpshot, would allow sharpshot to attack with a real ranged attack rate, not it's quirky JA attack rate. Sharpshot's TP is calculated with a 360 delay, so I would say give sharpshot 360 ranged attack delay (3~4 seconds between shots) while overdrive is active.

Secondly, play up the emphasis on maneuvers. Reduce the maneuver recast from 10 seconds to 3~5 seconds while Overdrive is active, and increase the duration of maneuvers used while overdrive is active to 2-3 minutes, so we can get a little extra benefit out of it even after the ability wears off. If you really wanted to boost it, add in the bonus of maneuver-consuming attachments not consuming the maneuvers when they activate while overload is active.

This change more clearly emphasizes the puppet's strengths, and gives the feel of a real pet-focused 2hour. Overdrive doesn't really put our puppet into Overdrive, or even, really, "Augment(s) the fighting ability of (y)our automaton to its maximum level. " It just makes makes them flail around a little bit faster and resist enfeebling effects.

[Okipuit]

Hey everyone,

We would like to respond to some of the comments made regarding the new 2-hour ability adjustments.

WAR:
The effect is the same as Formless Strikes, but since the job is different and the special traits are different as well, it’s not like you will receive the same exact effect. We’d be happy to hear feedback on the results of WARs using this ability. In regards to wanting the ability’s effect to apply to weapon skills as well, this would make it so that it is far stronger than Mighty Strikes. As an alternative, we are extending the effect duration to open up more attack opportunities.

DNC:
While this can be used similar to Meikyo Shisui, there are of course other ways to use it as well. Since there is an advantage point of being able to use it in combination with other abilities, there are a lot of different uses, so we would like to hear feedback after trying it and considering that aspect as well.

BST:
We understand that sacrificing your pet for Stoneskin results in a reduction in attack power. This Stoneskin effect is not used like the magic spell Stoneskin that you would use before entering a fight. It is something that is used in a crisis situation in order to recover and avoid emergencies (For example, if your pet is on the verge of dying and when that happens you will be put in a dangerous spot, etc.)

PLD:
Once we are able to talk concretely about the enmity adjustments we will be making a comment, so please wait a bit on this.

[Zirael]

Hey everyone,

We would like to respond to some of the comments made regarding the new 2-hour ability adjustments.

WAR:
The effect is the same as Formless Strikes, but since the job is different and the special traits are different as well, it’s not like you will receive the same exact effect. We’d be happy to hear feedback on the results of WARs using this ability. In regards to wanting the ability’s effect to apply to weapon skills as well, this would make it so that it is far stronger than Mighty Strikes. As an alternative, we are extending the effect duration to open up more attack opportunities.
Tomahawk (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_%28Ability%29)



BST:
We understand that sacrificing your pet for Stoneskin results in a reduction in attack power. This Stoneskin effect is not used like the magic spell Stoneskin that you would use before entering a fight. It is something that is used in a crisis situation in order to recover and avoid emergencies (For example, if your pet is on the verge of dying and when that happens you will be put in a dangerous spot, etc.)

Dawn_Mulsum (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Dawn_Mulsum)
Pet_Food_Theta_Biscuit (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Pet_Food_Theta_Biscuit)

As a side note, there has been no mention about Thief 2-hour ability at all since the initial reveal weeks ago. We are unable to dispute it's uselessness in detail without any concrete information about it's parameters. Could you please tell us how terrible it is?

[Demon6324236]

Hey everyone,

We would like to respond to some of the comments made regarding the new 2-hour ability adjustments.Well, I look forward to your reply.
WAR:
The effect is the same as Formless Strikes, but since the job is different and the special traits are different as well, it’s not like you will receive the same exact effect. We’d be happy to hear feedback on the results of WARs using this ability. In regards to wanting the ability’s effect to apply to weapon skills as well, this would make it so that it is far stronger than Mighty Strikes. As an alternative, we are extending the effect duration to open up more attack opportunities.I like some of what you said here, the last part to be specific. Longer duration is good, however this would be farm from better than Mighty Strikes if it worked on WSs, as Mighty Strikes works on WSs, and would dominate on anything without somewhat decent to high PDT. However when you last spoke of these abilities, you said you want to have them as situational use, in which case, would Mighty Strikes not be the better choice when a mob has no PDT? And couldn't the same be said for this new one when a mob does have high PDT? It seems as if adding the damage to WSs would only help to balance the situational use you wish it to have. Also...
The effect is the same as Formless Strikes, but since the job is different and the special traits are different as well, it’s not like you will receive the same exact effect.I hope you know how stupid this makes you sound. You are telling us that the effects of this ability that takes 2 hours to use again is basically the same as an ability that thats 10 minutes to use again. Also look at their duration, I am sure this will have a 1 Minute duration at most, to follow in line with others, where as Formless has 3 minute duration. So as I said, I hope you know just how stupid this makes you sound, and hope you think about revising it.

DNC:
While this can be used similar to Meikyo Shisui, there are of course other ways to use it as well. Since there is an advantage point of being able to use it in combination with other abilities, there are a lot of different uses, so we would like to hear feedback after trying it and considering that aspect as well.Ill give you this one, it is a nice 2-hour, however I still think it may be a bit to limiting.
BST:
We understand that sacrificing your pet for Stoneskin results in a reduction in attack power. This Stoneskin effect is not used like the magic spell Stoneskin that you would use before entering a fight. It is something that is used in a crisis situation in order to recover and avoid emergencies (For example, if your pet is on the verge of dying and when that happens you will be put in a dangerous spot, etc.)You don't understand the flaw here it would seem. Please look at the first thing in your reply on this subject...
We understand that sacrificing your pet for Stoneskin results in a reduction in attack power.This is not why the 2-hour is rejected by players, its because pets are used by BST for a defensive tool in almost all cases. It becomes the tank, and your essentially asking me to offer my tank, so that I can gain Stoneskin, which makes no sense because then I am the tank, because I lost my tank, and now I'm being hit instead, making me easier to kill really. Its like me dropping my Ephemeron, because I want a Swiftwing, your giving us something worse than we already had to protect us when we use this ability, not only that but we get this every 2 hours? Its just flawed, please, do something else. I am not a BST, but as I have said before, I think the way to go with this is add NM specific moves to all pets, and have them only usable by these pets under the effect of the new 2-hour. For instance, Mandragora family pets would gain access to Petalback Spin, nearly every family of mob in the game could have this sort of power, an ability only used by NMs of their family.
PLD:
Once we are able to talk concretely about the enmity adjustments we will be making a comment, so please wait a bit on this.So long as you can give me your word we will not see this ability become worthless due to an early release, and it works out, I will have no problems. However please understand, I have my full attention on watching for any word on Enmity updates, because it is vital to how the game will function after they occur I think.

[Insaniac]

These 2-hrs are a good chance for the Devs to start listening to player feedback again and they are kinda blowing it. When the entire community is in consensus that the BST 2hr needs to be scrapped and rebuilt as something completely different take the hint.

If that is a proper translation of the devs response to the WAR 2hr being underpowered they need open their windows calculator and read this:


WAR: The 2-hour still doesn't affect WS damage, so it still isn't worthwhile. Warriors have about a 50/50 WS/TP damage split. Assuming Crits double damage (which they will against any enemy that is worth 2-houring), then the monster would need to have more than 75% PDT for the new 2-hour to be worth using.

Not only that, but you've already given us the necessary tool to invalidate this 2-hour entirely, Tomahawk. If a monster has 100% PDT and you Tomahawk it, for a little while it has 70% PDT. If 75% PDT is the cut-off, then Tomahawk + Mighty Strikes (30% with AF2+2 feet and 5/5 merits) is better than using this 2-hour.

You need to make this 2-hour apply to weapon skills too.

then understand it and have their minds blown.

[saevel]

And no mention about RDM's 2hr ... which all the RDM's think is utter sh!t due to its stupidly low duration and really weak bonus.

SE it needs fixed, 3 min duration with 2x potency bonus and 2x duration bonus. Anything less is pretty much useless.

[Calamity]

BST:
We understand that sacrificing your pet for Stoneskin results in a reduction in attack power. This Stoneskin effect is not used like the magic spell Stoneskin that you would use before entering a fight. It is something that is used in a crisis situation in order to recover and avoid emergencies (For example, if your pet is on the verge of dying and when that happens you will be put in a dangerous spot, etc.)

And there's a good solid reason why our pet absolutely must be sacrificed? Other jobs 2hrs actually have effects that cancel the usage of tools and ammo and such. We lose a jug. Why?

[Shibayama]

The problem with the dancer two hour is that it really has no utility outside of a damage spike, thus giving no incentive to bring a dancer to an event - nobody is going to bring a dancer over say, a samurai because it can "fill a variety of roles" - nobody plays the game like this, which is why middle-of-the road jobs with no real direction as of yet like RDM and DNC struggle to find roles in the current endgame content.

Please stop insulting your playerbase by writing off our complaints/frustrations about these abilites (the fact that you're still trying to justify the bst's 2 hour when literally every beastmaster has said that eating your pet in a pinch situation rather than enhancing your pet which is the primary tank is a bad idea? Just take the hint already and come up with something new) - don't tell us how these abilities are justified in existing because you had an intended scenario of use for them - trust your playerbase who have been playing this game for 10 years for heaven's sake.

[Zadimortis]

Hey everyone

Hey.



WAR:
The effect is the same as Formless Strikes, but since the job is different and the special traits are different as well, it’s not like you will receive the same exact effect. We’d be happy to hear feedback on the results of WARs using this ability. In regards to wanting the ability’s effect to apply to weapon skills as well, this would make it so that it is far stronger than Mighty Strikes. As an alternative, we are extending the effect duration to open up more attack opportunities.

This is not justifiable. As has been referenced repeatedly in this thread, Formless Strikes is a three minute duration ability of the same effect with a recast of ten minutes. To make this ability justifiable for Warriors to expend their two-hour timer on, the ability must be significantly more powerful in the hands of a Warrior, which it is only slightly (and even that is debatable). The point with regard to weapon skills making the ability more powerful than Mighty Strikes is true, I'm sure, but was suggested as an offset to make this ability more powerful than Formless Strikes. Do not forget that Mighty Strikes is compatible with weaponskills, and drastically increases their damage output too.



DNC:
While this can be used similar to Meikyo Shisui, there are of course other ways to use it as well. Since there is an advantage point of being able to use it in combination with other abilities, there are a lot of different uses, so we would like to hear feedback after trying it and considering that aspect as well.

The player base has a tendency to optimize: whenever a 'versatile' system or ability with 'a lot of different uses' occurs in the game, the players will immediately optimize to the best route of that system for each desired role of the system. Surely the development team has seen the Bluegartr FFXI Advanced: The New Standard forum, no? Saying it has a "lot of different uses" is not justification for making any possible outcome of the ability weaker than the other option presented - Trance - in virtually any situation.



BST:
We understand that sacrificing your pet for Stoneskin results in a reduction in attack power. This Stoneskin effect is not used like the magic spell Stoneskin that you would use before entering a fight. It is something that is used in a crisis situation in order to recover and avoid emergencies (For example, if your pet is on the verge of dying and when that happens you will be put in a dangerous spot, etc.)


reduction in attack power

Well that's one way to put it. Though, props to the development team for providing an example situation, I know the forum-abiding player base has been requesting that for a while.

I'm starting to understand the developers' intentions behind this ability. Beastmaster is a primarily solo job, and yet it lacks in the way of crisis-averting, ass-saving abilities. But does that really make it justifiable for a two-hour?

(The answer is no, by the way.)

If this is the direction the development team wants to take the new Beastmaster 2-hour, there are a myriad of other options that would be vastly superior to this, many of which have already been suggested in the forums, so I will save my vast and boundless creativity.



PLD:
Once we are able to talk concretely about the enmity adjustments we will be making a comment, so please wait a bit on this.

The development team had better present some math when these enmity adjustments are finalized. The problems with the current enmity system are invisible without numbers to clarify what's going on behind the graphics.

(See that? My vast and boundless creativity, at work. Please, ladies, one at a time...)

Can we expect any comments on the Thief and Red Mage new two-hour abilities? I understand there is quite a bit of dissatisfaction in the test server player base with regard to those.

[Cljader1]

And still nothing about DRK and the 30 seconds duration on this crappy 2hr? Can we just fix BW before we get any new 2hr? BW needs to be 60 seconds in duration and should reset the recast timers of all dark magic upon its use. Drks only have about 5 good spells its about time there is something to boost our magic side.

[Helel]

Hey everyone,

We would like to respond to some of the comments made regarding the new 2-hour ability adjustments.

WAR:
The effect is the same as Formless Strikes, but since the job is different and the special traits are different as well, it’s not like you will receive the same exact effect. We’d be happy to hear feedback on the results of WARs using this ability. In regards to wanting the ability’s effect to apply to weapon skills as well, this would make it so that it is far stronger than Mighty Strikes. As an alternative, we are extending the effect duration to open up more attack opportunities.

DNC:
While this can be used similar to Meikyo Shisui, there are of course other ways to use it as well. Since there is an advantage point of being able to use it in combination with other abilities, there are a lot of different uses, so we would like to hear feedback after trying it and considering that aspect as well.

BST:
We understand that sacrificing your pet for Stoneskin results in a reduction in attack power. This Stoneskin effect is not used like the magic spell Stoneskin that you would use before entering a fight. It is something that is used in a crisis situation in order to recover and avoid emergencies (For example, if your pet is on the verge of dying and when that happens you will be put in a dangerous spot, etc.)

PLD:
Once we are able to talk concretely about the enmity adjustments we will be making a comment, so please wait a bit on this.

I don't understand how WAR's new 2-hour would be more powerful than mighty strikes if it worked on weapon skills considering mighty strikes already works on melee attacks and weapon skills? Something must have been mistranslated?

[Kari]

DNC:
While this can be used similar to Meikyo Shisui, there are of course other ways to use it as well. Since there is an advantage point of being able to use it in combination with other abilities, there are a lot of different uses, so we would like to hear feedback after trying it and considering that aspect as well.

There ARE other ways that it can be used, you are correct. But they are all inferior to using Reverse Flourish 3 times. You would, ideally, use Climactic Flourish before this 2 hour. That buff would last long enough to add that crit effect to every WS you use with those Reverse Flourishes. Every other Flourish from there becomes worthless, because they will reduce your damage output.

The Developers have to realize, a lot of our Flourishes are WIDELY unused, because they are either not worth Finishing Moves + Cooldown, or are simply beaten by other flourishes. I can tell you, I never really use Desperate, Animated, Wild, Building, Striking, or Ternary Flourish, except to maybe proc in Dynamis in a few of their cases.

I highly suggest exploring ways to allow us to use multiple flourishes, or add something to this 2 hour. I don't want to lose the ability you've given us though, being able to Reverse 3 times is definitely an upside to what you've had before, but it's still missing a little something. Remember, we optimize everything you give us, you can't just say "Well if you avoid using this ability in the best way possible, it has many uses."


BST:
We understand that sacrificing your pet for Stoneskin results in a reduction in attack power. This Stoneskin effect is not used like the magic spell Stoneskin that you would use before entering a fight. It is something that is used in a crisis situation in order to recover and avoid emergencies (For example, if your pet is on the verge of dying and when that happens you will be put in a dangerous spot, etc.)

It's not about the reduction in attack power.
There is zero use for having stoneskin + cure on the master for a 2 hour, especially not at the cost of your pet.
Like I said before, this 2 hour would still be worthless even if your pet was kept alive. Nobody needs this on BST. Ever.

[Babekeke]

Hey everyone,

We would like to respond to some of the comments made regarding the new 2-hour ability adjustments.

WAR:
Longer duration.

DNC:
Already improved.

BST:
Already improved (though still useless)

PLD:
Once we are able to talk concretely about the enmity adjustments we will be making a comment, so please wait a bit on this.

RDM:
This ability is indeed terrible, but since noone plays RDM for real end-game events, we're not interested.

That's how I read it.

[Byrth]

...
WAR:
The effect is the same as Formless Strikes, but since the job is different and the special traits are different as well, it’s not like you will receive the same exact effect. We’d be happy to hear feedback on the results of WARs using this ability. In regards to wanting the ability’s effect to apply to weapon skills as well, this would make it so that it is far stronger than Mighty Strikes. As an alternative, we are extending the effect duration to open up more attack opportunities.

As I said before and Insaniak pointed out again, this is just not correct. What you've made is a 2-hour that's inferior to Tomahawk + Mighty Strikes, and Tomahawk's effect extends to the entire party and would be desired in the same situations. Are we supposed to use this when we're solo zerging Jailer of Temperance in the wrong mode?

Currently, with a 50% TP/WS split and crits doubling damage, both of which are estimations in favor of the new 2-hour for events like Legion, the monster would need 96% PDT for the new 2-hour to be superior to Mighty Strikes (Tomahawk used in both cases). Under more realistic conditions the new 2-hour is probably never superior. If you changed it so WSs are also affected, the monster would need 71% PDT for the new 2-hour to be superior to Mighty Strikes.

As it currently stands the new 2-hour is good only for cases of almost total physical immunity. If you changed it to include WSs the world would not fall apart, but we could use it in a few more cases.


DNC:
While this can be used similar to Meikyo Shisui, there are of course other ways to use it as well. Since there is an advantage point of being able to use it in combination with other abilities, there are a lot of different uses, so we would like to hear feedback after trying it and considering that aspect as well.

I figured that would be your response. Functionally, though, the best thing you can do with this 2-hour is make a really long skillchain or (for anything involving a party) do three WSs back to back. You may have to waste one of your 2-hour Flourishes to re-apply Climactic Flourish depending on how many hits get through, but I think it can be done with good enough timing:

Party: Climactic Flourish (5 FM) -> Rudra's Storm -> No Foot Rise (4 FM) -> Reverse -> Rudra's Storm -> 2-hour -> Reverse -> Rudra's Storm -> Reverse -> Rudra's Storm -> Reverse -> Rudra's Storm

Again, though you hype the versatility of this 2-hour it's actually fairly limited. Here's why:

1) Reverse is clearly our best damage option, whether starting/continuing a skillchain or going solo. Wild has some potential if you're low on FMs (aka not while using this 2-hour) and solo, but with 5 FMs there's no reason to use anything but Reverse. Building isn't even in the picture unless you're fighting very very difficult monsters (where no one would bring a Dancer due to level correction killing 1H damage).

2) Even though you've reduced the timer, we still cannot use multiple Tier 3 Flourishes (not that we'd want to even if we could) because they are all exclusive with each other. If you use Ternary with Climactic up, Climactic is overwritten, etc.

3) Flourishes I is still not very useful. Why would I want to use 3 Desperate Flourishes in a row when Rudra's gives a more powerful form of Gravity? Why would I want to use three Animated Flourishes in a row when I could just hit the monster and get more enmity in the same amount of time? Why would I want to activate my 2-hour (which takes a second) so that I can use Violent Flourish three times in a row? Is there some monster I'm fighting that's resistant (but not immune) to my Stun effect that uses a long charge-time TP move or spell that I only need to stun once every 2 hours?


There is definitely still room for improvement, but I'll take a dagger version of Meikyo Shisui over the previous (totally useless) 2-hour. Still, please realize that what you've given us is just an inferior version of Meikyo Shisui, which lasts longer (if for some reason that was an issue), grants ~4 WSs instead of 3 with the augmented armor, and gives 300/225/150 TP WSs instead of ~100TP WSs. Also, they're using a GKT instead of a dagger and don't have to rely on another buff to make their WSs do decent damage.

[Calysto]

DNC:
While this can be used similar to Meikyo Shisui, there are of course other ways to use it as well. Since there is an advantage point of being able to use it in combination with other abilities, there are a lot of different uses, so we would like to hear feedback after trying it and considering that aspect as well.

like everyone said since your post, still no other choice would beat the fake sam 2h as the only viable options are for damage dealing.
also, since the flourishes 3, the dev team seems to have forgotten that dnc was supposed to be somewhat of a support job, not just another DD.

[Shadax]

BST:
We understand that sacrificing your pet for Stoneskin results in a reduction in attack power. This Stoneskin effect is not used like the magic spell Stoneskin that you would use before entering a fight. It is something that is used in a crisis situation in order to recover and avoid emergencies (For example, if your pet is on the verge of dying and when that happens you will be put in a dangerous spot, etc.)


I can honestly say in the 3 or so years I've been playing BST, I have never once encountered a situation such as this and if you do, then you are fighting something you shouldn't be and this will only delay the inevitable or you have no idea how BST works. Something tells me the devs are the latter.

[Zirael]

As I said before and Insaniak pointed out again, this is just not correct. What you've made is a 2-hour that's inferior to Tomahawk + Mighty Strikes, and Tomahawk's effect extends to the entire party and would be desired in the same situations. Are we supposed to use this when we're solo zerging Jailer of Temperance in the wrong mode?

Currently, with a 50% TP/WS split and crits doubling damage, both of which are estimations in favor of the new 2-hour for events like Legion, the monster would need 96% PDT for the new 2-hour to be superior to Mighty Strikes (Tomahawk used in both cases). Under more realistic conditions the new 2-hour is probably never superior. If you changed it so WSs are also affected, the monster would need 71% PDT for the new 2-hour to be superior to Mighty Strikes.

As it currently stands the new 2-hour is good only for cases of almost total physical immunity. If you changed it to include WSs the world would not fall apart, but we could use it in a few more cases.



I figured that would be your response. Functionally, though, the best thing you can do with this 2-hour is make a really long skillchain or (for anything involving a party) do three WSs back to back. You may have to waste one of your 2-hour Flourishes to re-apply Climactic Flourish depending on how many hits get through, but I think it can be done with good enough timing:

Party: Climactic Flourish (5 FM) -> Rudra's Storm -> No Foot Rise (4 FM) -> Reverse -> Rudra's Storm -> 2-hour -> Reverse -> Rudra's Storm -> Reverse -> Rudra's Storm -> Reverse -> Rudra's Storm

Again, though you hype the versatility of this 2-hour it's actually fairly limited. Here's why:

1) Reverse is clearly our best damage option, whether starting/continuing a skillchain or going solo. Wild has some potential if you're low on FMs (aka not while using this 2-hour) and solo, but with 5 FMs there's no reason to use anything but Reverse. Building isn't even in the picture unless you're fighting very very difficult monsters (where no one would bring a Dancer due to level correction killing 1H damage).

2) Even though you've reduced the timer, we still cannot use multiple Tier 3 Flourishes (not that we'd want to even if we could) because they are all exclusive with each other. If you use Ternary with Climactic up, Climactic is overwritten, etc.

3) Flourishes I is still not very useful. Why would I want to use 3 Desperate Flourishes in a row when Rudra's gives a more powerful form of Gravity? Why would I want to use three Animated Flourishes in a row when I could just hit the monster and get more enmity in the same amount of time? Why would I want to activate my 2-hour (which takes a second) so that I can use Violent Flourish three times in a row? Is there some monster I'm fighting that's resistant (but not immune) to my Stun effect that uses a long charge-time TP move or spell that I only need to stun once every 2 hours?


There is definitely still room for improvement, but I'll take a dagger version of Meikyo Shisui over the previous (totally useless) 2-hour. Still, please realize that what you've given us is just an inferior version of Meikyo Shisui, which lasts longer (if for some reason that was an issue), grants ~4 WSs instead of 3 with the augmented armor, and gives 300/225/150 TP WSs instead of ~100TP WSs. Also, they're using a GKT instead of a dagger and don't have to rely on another buff to make their WSs do decent damage.
You guys' dispute reminds me another, not long in the past, battle to unsuck Dancer. This day, anyone even remembers what Ternary Flourish is? When it was meant to be implemented and everyone was saing that it's useless/waste of development potential, Square Enix has replied with this:

As we have explained before, we hope you understand that Ternary Flourish was implemented with future growth in mind. We plan on strengthening this ability through equipment and merits, and we appreciate your patience as we do so.

We plan on adjusting all jobs, but our highest priorities right now are adjusting puppetmaster, corsair, scholar, dragoon, and warrior’s firepower. We will be working on these job adjustments in order of priority.

In response to a comment asking for Charis Casaque (+1 and +2) to apply to Ternary Flourish as well... if Charis Casaque (+1 and +2) also increased the effects of Ternary Flourish, they would be too powerful as gear items, so we do not plan on implementing those adjustments.

Also, Flourish-type abilities are not separated by rank or effectiveness, but are separated so that they are useful in different situations, so even if an item were to increase the effects of Ternary Flourish, the effects would not be exactly the same as "increasing the effects of Striking Flourish."

Please continue to offer up your feedback on how you want dancer to shine and we will use them as reference points when we think of support abilities for dancers.
Ternary Flourish is still useless, there was no merits/equipment ever added to make it worthwhile. Everyone just felt like their feedback got completely ignored.
Déjà vu.

[Siiri]

Why do people care so much about warrior? It is already far and away the most powerful melee. Let's worry about jobs that really could use a boost via a 2 hour, not making war more broken.

[Luvbunny]

They still do not get it AT ALL about why people play beastmaster. Please revise this god awful new 2 hours, we will never use it, it is totally utter worthless garbage. There is no way we are in a critical situation like this when there is dawn mulsum and pet food handy. EVER! If anything, this idea is a fantastic for job ability and a great improvement of run wild, you should add the stoneskin effect to run wild instead - we loose our pet, we gain stoneskin, enough protection to use another call beast ability.

[Demon6324236]

Why do people care so much about warrior? It is already far and away the most powerful melee. Let's worry about jobs that really could use a boost via a 2 hour, not making war more broken.

Because we don't like the devs adding stupid things. I would rather them add nothing at all instead of something stupid, at least then they don't waste their time. If they are going to make an ability, they need to do it right and make it good, maybe then they might realize what good ideas are and aren't.

[Unaisis]

This is not justifiable. As has been referenced repeatedly in this thread, Formless Strikes is a three minute duration ability of the same effect with a recast of ten minutes. To make this ability justifiable for Warriors to expend their two-hour timer on, the ability must be significantly more powerful in the hands of a Warrior, which it is only slightly (and even that is debatable). The point with regard to weapon skills making the ability more powerful than Mighty Strikes is true, I'm sure, but was suggested as an offset to make this ability more powerful than Formless Strikes. Do not forget that Mighty Strikes is compatible with weaponskills, and drastically increases their damage output too.

Great! ; ; now that you pointed out that Mighty Strikes works with Weaponskills they gunna fix it now T__T. Bet they had no idea it did...

[Cljader1]

I'm saying there are worse and you ignore the good your ability has. One of the most complained about parts of events right now is that everything has attacks that do way to much damage, this gives you the power to limit those massively by removing the TP from them as they get it, then fire it back at them for more damage than you had before. BST gets to gain defense by losing their best defense, RDM gets to have slightly stronger buffs that are barley better and the duration is to short to even buff properly, let alone others like Embrava does. Your not getting the short end of the stick, DRK is a nice 2-hour, there are much worse around right now.

You just don't get it my friend, this is not a good 2hr especially for drk. If this was made to control ADL the implementation is bad. Once this go live, drk will be barred from doing any weapon skills to ADL for fear of replenishing his TP. Linkshells will say drk 2hr "melee only please." This is not a zerg, and it doesnt help drk zerg at ALL. Drk would be turned into a pseudo tp-tank, I as a drk do not want that, I want to zerg, and we need a 2hr that helps us zerg. If SE allows ws's to also tp-drain than this would be a great 2hr.

[Raucent]

Not to mention this is another DRK 2hr that will more then likely have us using alternate weapons for multi hits again. Instead of using scythe or great sword for dmg it will become the new KC 2hr, with mobs being resistant/immune to Souleater, All this 2hr did was change the rules " ok the mob is immune to Souleater, guess i'll use the new 2hr and KC lock it down".... how about a 2hr that doesnt "require" us to use a different weapon type.

The 2hr does sound nice but due to the low duration it is impractical to use with great sword or scythe. IMO when ppl start doing lock down zergs with this new 2hr i can bet it will be nerfed to hell just like the SEBW zergs.

[Demon6324236]

I'm done arguing with you. I play DRK to, I see this as an ok ability, yes it could be better but I'm ok with how it is, all I have to say on the subject anymore.

[Cljader1]

if the duration is 30 seconds, is it not to much to ask for it to effect weaponskills also?

[Chamaan]

What about Formless Axes will make it more powerful for a warrior than for a monk? Fists or axes, it's all just damage and damage evens out a lot between two equally geared jobs.

And what would make this two hour more powerful than MS for WS? The accuracy bonus? Are you going to give us a 16-hit WS with an Acc penalty you haven't unveiled yet? Because I assure you Mighty Strikes with a little more accuracy gear (we've got literal scads of it) would be better in this situation too. Does the Accuracy bonus bypass Perfect Dodge?

And for Dancer, please just give up that fight too. Change the two hour to something that boosts the potency of sambas. Then the party could benefit from the support job's two hour. Need fast attack? 25% JA Haste Samba please. Some stupid monster with 100/tick Bio aura? 120/hit Drain Samba III.

[Theytak]

Hey everyone,

We would like to respond to some of the comments made regarding the new 2-hour ability adjustments.

WAR:
The effect is the same as Formless Strikes, but since the job is different and the special traits are different as well, it’s not like you will receive the same exact effect. We’d be happy to hear feedback on the results of WARs using this ability. In regards to wanting the ability’s effect to apply to weapon skills as well, this would make it so that it is far stronger than Mighty Strikes. As an alternative, we are extending the effect duration to open up more attack opportunities.

Again, like everyone else is saying, Tomahawk completely negates your reasoning, because it lasts longer (up to 1:30) and applies to the entire party/alliance, rather than the war alone.


DNC:
While this can be used similar to Meikyo Shisui, there are of course other ways to use it as well. Since there is an advantage point of being able to use it in combination with other abilities, there are a lot of different uses, so we would like to hear feedback after trying it and considering that aspect as well.

I'm very curious as to what constitutes "a lot of different uses" when you take the 9 flourishes into account...

Flourish I:
- Animated Flourish: Provoke
- Desperate Flourish: Gravity
- Violent Flourish: Stun
Flourish II:
- Reverse Flourish: TP restore
- Building Flourish: WS buff
- Wild Flourish: Very weak skill chain opener (Read: very weak skill chains, not very weak opener, though it's that as well)
Flourish III: Note: all three effects are mutually exclusive
- Climactic Flourish: 1-5 Consecutively Nonconsecutive forced critical hits (1 per attack round/ws, on consecutive attack rounds/ws, not consecutive attacks in a single round/ws)
- Striking Flourish: a single, forced double attack
- Ternary Flourish: a single, forced triple attack

So, you have 2 enfeebling abilities, 1 enmity ability, none of which are worth using in a 2 hour scenario, because you can only apply gravity once, once it sticks, and it's not a very potent gravity, and if something needs to be stunned, you'd be better off just stunning it regularly, or at worst, popping no foot rise, than popping your 2hour. If you want enmity, you'd get a significantly larger amount through trance. As it stands right now, and even more so before the current changes, there is not one single scenario in which any flourish from Flourish I would ever be worth using with this 2hour. Absolutely none. You could argue that being able to use 3 violent flourishes in quick succession is a powerful ability, but that argument is totally invalidated by the very existence of blue mage. Blue can use quick stuns ad infinitum, with enough refresh. Why would dnc waste ther 2hour to do something that a level 12 blue mage can do better?

So Flourish I is written out of use for this new 2hour. That leaves II and III, 5 of which focus purely on dealing damage, and 1 (reverse) heavily on it. Given the cost and recast time of Striking and Ternary flourishes, there's absolutely no point using them on regular attacks normally, and as neither consumes 5 FM, but this 2hour is now limited to 3 flourish uses total, both lose out in terms of worth. Which leaves climactic flourish as the only worthwhile flourish from III, for now.

Now, again due to the nature of not using all 5 FMs, and due to how functionally weak it is anyway, wild flourish is simply dropped. Building Flourish does not use all 5 FMs either, but it does give a moderate WS buff, though more so to critical hit ws than other ws. However, it would be a waste compared to the other options.

Thus, 7 of the 9 flourishes are not worth using during this 2 hour that focuses on flourishes. That leaves us only with climactic flourish and reverse flourish, as they're the only two flourishes able to fully take advantage of this 2hour's effect. Additionally, of the two, climactic is purely damage focused, and results in significantly less damage than reverse flourish on an individual level, and is hindered further by only being able to, realistically, make 1 practical use of it for the 2 hour itself.

That means reverse flourish is, undeniably, the only flourish worth using with this 2hour. There are no scenarios in which any of the other flourishes would be a better choice. Striking and Ternary could be argued to use for TP gain, but neither would net more TP than simply using Reverse flourish. The "lot of different uses" that the devs seem to think exist, well, do not exist. Not in the Final Fantasy XI we play, anyway. 3x reverse flourish constitutes the largest amount of damage output, and the support output it could, potentially, deliver, while larger than any other option, is still significantly smaller than anything trance could sneeze at, so the only reason to use this ability is for damage. Thus, no matter the situation, 3 extra ws would be the best and only real choice.


BST:
We understand that sacrificing your pet for Stoneskin results in a reduction in attack power. This Stoneskin effect is not used like the magic spell Stoneskin that you would use before entering a fight. It is something that is used in a crisis situation in order to recover and avoid emergencies (For example, if your pet is on the verge of dying and when that happens you will be put in a dangerous spot, etc.)

The problem has absolutely nothing to do with offensive power. The problem is that SACRIFICING YOUR PET IS A MONUMENTAL REDUCTION IN DEFENSIVE POWER (when you translate our complaints, please, please, please emphasize that we're not talking about offense at all), that stoneskin simply cannot overcome. You want to give bst a defensive, crisis-recovery 2hour? Well, then you should have given them what you gave drg; a massive pet recovery ability, complete with stat buffs or, hey, maybe give the PET the stoneskin. Bst's pets are viewed, and used, as primarily defensive tools. Bsts rarely ever use their pets with the pet's offensive ability as their primary reason for their pet choice.


PLD:
Once we are able to talk concretely about the enmity adjustments we will be making a comment, so please wait a bit on this.

That's fine, just bring math when you do. Don't give us "a large amount" or "very quickly" give us the exact amounts and how quickly in exact seconds. There's no point talking about enmity without that.


And still nothing about DRK and the 30 seconds duration on this crappy 2hr? Can we just fix BW before we get any new 2hr? BW needs to be 60 seconds in duration and should reset the recast timers of all dark magic upon its use. Drks only have about 5 good spells its about time there is something to boost our magic side.

Stop bitching about something that isn't broken, my god. Drk got one of the few actually useful 2hours. Drk doesn't need another offense boosting zerg ability. It doesn't. Desperate blows, coupled with drk's use of very powerful weapons, and very powerful weaponskills (read: greatswords, lolscythe) and combined with bloodweapon makes for a very strong, very hard to kill damage spewing monster at high haste. It's also the only 2h job that can easily cap haste, and that can do so without a dnc for haste samba.

Consider this: This 2hour only needs a single person to use it at a time, because the monster only has 1 TP pool. Nearly every high end NM currently possesses potent regain and very, very dangerous TP abilities. In a zerg, the amount of TP the NM will be getting is going to be immense.

Now, consider greatswords and scythes at haste cap: The average floored delay (80% reduction) for greatswords is around 91, while scythes are around 103. That means great swords will swing at a rate of around 1 attack round every 1.55 seconds, while scythes will be around 1.75 seconds. This means over 40 seconds (since the relic+2 2hour buff applies, currently) greatsword will have 25 attack rounds, while scythe will have 22. That's only rounds. That doesn't account for double/triple/quadruple attack, or misses. I'm not going to pretend to have any idea how much DA/TA/QA is on a typical drk zerg set, and just use a rough average of 25% DA since that seems to be fairly close for most jobs that aren't war or thf.

That would give greatsword 31 attacks and scythe 27, both before accuracy. Thus, even with scythe, you're still draining at rate between once every 1-2 seconds. With how potent the TP drain has been shown to be, and how mob AI works, there would need to be a significant amount of melees and/or regain present to negate that TP drain, and thus, essentially, this ability would give drk one of the strongest NM controlling abilities in the game. Why the hell are you complaining about it? You're going to get invited to zergs whether you have it or not. You're a fucking drk.

[Demon6324236]

if the duration is 30 seconds, is it not to much to ask for it to effect weaponskills also?

That I'm ok with, same with a duration increase, but either way you look at it this is not bad it just doesn't live up to what it could be if they increase or allow it to effect certain aspects.

[Xilk]

Do I need to keep responding about the bst 2 hour? If SE is really married to the idea, you can roll it out, but no one will use it or love SE for it. It will not enhance the gameplay.

for defense, beastmaster already has options superior to this new ability which do NOT cost us our pet.
Reward > Pet Food Theta
Snarl
Dawn Mulsum

These are all awesome, very cool abilities.

There are generally only a few kinds of sticky situations bst can get into for defense on the master:
AoE attacks
Hate loss on pet.
strong paralyze and pet is dead.

If our pet is nearly dead a theta biscuit or a dawn mulsum will often cure 2.5k hp. That is as much as the stoneskin effect ever would be and it costs MUCH less. Currently we do not often have trouble w/ reward timers.

IF a mob is hitting us w/ large AoE attacks, the bst moves out of attack range while the pet is taking the hits, cure up a bit, and go back in when safer, or there might actually be someone in the party curing us....

Snarl is a FANTASTIC ability which saves from pet hate loss PERFECTLY on a 30 second recast. This is much cheaper than a 2 hour ability.

Other situations would be when there are multiple targets and you are having trouble establishing hate on all of them TO THE PET. the new 2 hour might buy some more time in such a situation, but it would take a very specific set of circumstances and previous screw ups by the player to get here, if they haven't already used familiar.

Paralyze and pet is dead > if pet is dead the new ability is useless.

Sacrificing a pet is completely Undesirable for anyone playing beastmaster. It feels like the cost of the new Warrior 2 hour would be an encumbrance effect as well.

The only game situation in which sacrificing the pet MIGHT be acceptable woudl be a zerg-typ situation (which bst is almost never included in anyway). In a zerg situation it is likely the AoE's from a HUGE NM like ADL would wipe out the pet too quickly for pet to be much help. In this situation a massive spike in Offense, not defense would be preferred.

I think the suggestion of a MASSIVE Killer Instinct effect (75%+) would be best IF developers insist on sacrificing the pet (which is silly to begin with),

There have been alot of other good suggestions 2 hour ability ideas for bst:

Pet call additional helpers of same type (not controllable) for short duration to attack pets

Meikyou shisui for pet ready moves + skillchains

apply the current plan for the pup's new 2 hour to bst.. ie apply mighty strikes for war type pets, invincible for pld type pets, perfect dodge for thf type pets, and 100 fists for mnk type pets, etc..

Unlock a super-powerful Ready move for our pet's family type taken from NM, such as petalback spin for mandies.

Inverse spirit-link where pet is buffed up (I guess familiar is a watered down version of this already.... I would like clarification if familiar is supposed to do anything beyond extending charm duration, raising pets max hp, and the newly added pet haste effect from monster trousers +2).

A 2hour HNM pet with limited duration.

there have been many other suggestions from players which would be great as well... even the exploding pet like a ninja would be preferable to the current sacrifice for stoneskin option available.

[Cljader1]

That would give greatsword 31 attacks and scythe 27, both before accuracy. Thus, even with scythe, you're still draining at rate between once every 1-2 seconds. With how potent the TP drain has been shown to be, and how mob AI works, there would need to be a significant amount of melees and/or regain present to negate that TP drain, and thus, essentially, this ability would give drk one of the strongest NM controlling abilities in the game. Why the hell are you complaining about it? You're going to get invited to zergs whether you have it or not. You're a fucking drk.

Just because your a drk dont mean you can participate in a zerg. Through the whole abyssea series and the climb to 99, drk have been embarrassed. I have been told by ukon wars "drk melee no thanks, stun only," I even been moved from the zerg group to the backlines to stun with the blms. Drks want too zerg and not babysit a mob for tp control, the last thing i dont want to see is drk being outlawed from doing there ws's. Allow the 2hr to drain-tp on ws and no matter what you can not stop drks from zerging. This would make everyone happy

[Demon6324236]

Just because your a drk dont mean you can participate in a zerg. Through the whole abyssea series and the climb to 99, drk have been embarrassed. I have been told by ukon wars "drk melee no thanks, stun only," I even been moved from the zerg group to the backlines to stun with the blms. Drks want too zerg and not babysit a mob for tp control, the last thing i dont want to see is drk being outlawed from doing there ws's. Allow the 2hr to drain-tp on ws and no matter what you can not stop drks from zerging. This would make everyone happy

...what? You need to find some smarter people to play with I think, there is no possible reason ever that a DRK should be on the back lines stunning instead of on the front lines DDing, especially since Resolution came out.

[Theytak]

Just because your a drk dont mean you can participate in a zerg. Through the whole abyssea series and the climb to 99, drk have been embarrassed. I have been told by ukon wars "drk melee no thanks, stun only," I even been moved from the zerg group to the backlines to stun with the blms. Drks want too zerg and not babysit a mob for tp control, the last thing i dont want to see is drk being outlawed from doing there ws's. Allow the 2hr to drain-tp on ws and no matter what you can not stop drks from zerging. This would make everyone happy

Idiot wars who don't understand that they're only barely ahead of drk in terms of damage don't make drk any less desired for zerg damage. You need to find less stupid people to play with. At least you get fucking invites at all.

[Theytak]

Also, apparently, they added some working names for some of the 2hours:
war: Imminent Strikes
whm: Asylum
blm: Sublte Sorcery (The typo is in game)
rdm: Encomium
pld: Righteous Guard
drk: DRK2h (read: no name yet)
bst: Feral Sacrifice (So... yea)
brd: Malinconico
rng: Instinctive Aim
sam: Yaegasumi
nin: Tengen
drg: Rouse Wyvern
smn: Astral Conduit
blu: Unbridled Wisdom
cor: Three to One
pup: Heady Artifice (... /facepalm.... you make the terrible thing worse by giving it a punny name....)
dnc: Grand Pas
sch: Caper Emissarius

If nothing else, they're good at naming stuff. The names don't make them suck any less, but most of them do sound cool.

[Xilk]

feral sacrifice... stop white-washing and call it what it is.

CANNIBALIZE!

[Karbuncle]

Any word on when you'll finally add THF to the server? I would like to show my distaste for it as soon as possible.

[Demon6324236]

feral sacrifice... stop white-washing and call it what it is.

CANNIBALIZE!

I loled from this! :D

[Leonardus]

feral sacrifice... stop white-washing and call it what it is.

CANNIBALIZE!

Yeah no kidding, Xilk. So when is our next job ability? Maybe another chance for a good one in two years? :/

[Insaniac]

Just because your a drk dont mean you can participate in a zerg. Through the whole abyssea series and the climb to 99, drk have been embarrassed. I have been told by ukon wars "drk melee no thanks, stun only," I even been moved from the zerg group to the backlines to stun with the blms. Drks want too zerg and not babysit a mob for tp control, the last thing i dont want to see is drk being outlawed from doing there ws's. Allow the 2hr to drain-tp on ws and no matter what you can not stop drks from zerging. This would make everyone happyIf you don't see the zerg benefit to being able to WS every 2 swings I can understand why you get moved out of the DD party. This is a solid 2 hour that not only increases DRKs damage output but carries a decent utility. The duration will probably be increased via merits and it will be even better.

[SpankWustler]

I suggest the Beastmaster 2-hour be re-named "OM NOM NOM!" and its animation and sound effects be changed to that of a Soul Trapper to imply we are producing an instragram of what we're about to eat.

[SpankWustler]

WAR:
The effect is the same as Formless Strikes, but since the job is different and the special traits are different as well, it’s not like you will receive the same exact effect. We’d be happy to hear feedback on the results of WARs using this ability. In regards to wanting the ability’s effect to apply to weapon skills as well, this would make it so that it is far stronger than Mighty Strikes. As an alternative, we are extending the effect duration to open up more attack opportunities.

Unless the goal is to create an ability that deals less damage than Mighty Strikes + Tomahawk on anything with less than 90~% physical immunity, this ability should be tested more thoroughly.

Every single player is getting the same result in this case. Every player. Same result. Mighty Strikes. Tomahawk.

If a lot of monsters in the coming expansion are going to have 100% physical immunity for more than one minute at a time, I am too terrified to care about lackluster new abilities any more.


BST:
We understand that sacrificing your pet for Stoneskin results in a reduction in attack power. This Stoneskin effect is not used like the magic spell Stoneskin that you would use before entering a fight. It is something that is used in a crisis situation in order to recover and avoid emergencies (For example, if your pet is on the verge of dying and when that happens you will be put in a dangerous spot, etc.)

If I'm in a situation awful enough that there's a chance of an emergency, I have already used Familiar for the +10% HP (and 10% Haste) it provides. I'm also carrying as many Dawn Muslums as my Mog Satchel will allow, if not losing horribly is really vital to me.

I would much prefer something to help me achieve my lofty goal of "don't suck" than to help me out when I do suck.

[SNK]

I can honestly say that I'll never use this two hour on BST.

[Cljader1]

If you don't see the zerg benefit to being able to WS every 2 swings I can understand why you get moved out of the DD party. This is a solid 2 hour that not only increases DRKs damage output but carries a decent utility. The duration will probably be increased via merits and it will be even better.

That's not true, you don't know what SE is going to do with merits or if we will even get 2hr merits, SE make lots of promises that we have yet to see. What about drk being turned into a tp-tank, where the drk uses 2hr and is ordered to "melees only" to babysit the mobs tp while other dd's perform the zerg, like sam uses its 2hr and war uses its 2hr. Drks would be banned from uses any ws's during its 2hr and regulated to tp control. Against mobs like ADL drk wont be allowed to use any wss, out of fear of replenishing his TP, and losing a drain cycle. Linkshells will say drk 2hr "melee only" and if your not allowed to weaponskill than that not a zerg. If SE allows ws's to also tp-drain then linkshells and alliances could not do this.

[Theytak]

That's not true, you don't know what SE is going to do with merits or if we will even get 2hr merits, SE make lots of promises that we have yet to see. What about drk being turned into a tp-tank, where the drk uses 2hr and is ordered to "melees only" to babysit the mobs tp while other dd's perform the zerg, like sam uses its 2hr and war uses its 2hr. Drks would be banned from uses any ws's during its 2hr and regulated to tp control. Against mobs like ADL drk wont be allowed to use any wss, out of fear of replenishing his TP, and losing a drain cycle. Linkshells will say drk 2hr "melee only" and if your not allowed to weaponskill than that not a zerg. If SE allows ws's to also tp-drain then linkshells and alliances could not do this.
I thought it was pretty clear that you don't drain TP if you're at 300% TP. Did I misread that? No linkshell is going to say "drk melee only" unless the leaders are so inept that they don't realize how the drk throwing out a couple extra resolutions during the duration of the 2hour is going to both keep help kill shit faster. Besides, regain ticks are every 3 seconds, so regain alone won't be able to out pace this 2hour unless it's 100TP/tick, because you're still going to swing again before the next regain tick to shave off whatever the melees gave it after you WS'd. You're splitting hairs and bitching for the sake of bitching, and it's really quite insulting to the rest of us who didn't get one of the 2-3 useful abilities, and quite distracting to the thread as a whole.

[Raucent]

incorrect actually Abs-TP still works even at 300 TP. learned from helping ls on multiple Glavoid runs

[Demon6324236]

I thought it was pretty clear that you don't drain TP if you're at 300% TP. Did I misread that? No linkshell is going to say "drk melee only" unless the leaders are so inept that they don't realize how the drk throwing out a couple extra resolutions during the duration of the 2hour is going to both keep help kill shit faster. Besides, regain ticks are every 3 seconds, so regain alone won't be able to out pace this 2hour unless it's 100TP/tick, because you're still going to swing again before the next regain tick to shave off whatever the melees gave it after you WS'd. You're splitting hairs and bitching for the sake of bitching, and it's really quite insulting to the rest of us who didn't get one of the 2-3 useful abilities, and quite distracting to the thread as a whole.

Couldn't agree more. People would be stupid to tell a massive DD job to use a massive DD 2-hour, then not WS and cut their DD to shit for the sake of something that doesn't actually help after the 1st 5~10 seconds of the 2-hours duration because the DRK is at 300% TP...
incorrect actually Abs-TP still works even at 300 TP. learned from helping ls on multiple Glavoid runsThats absorb TP, not this 2-hour, however since I have not tested this on the Test Server, I cant say for sure, but ok, just make that 1 change then, and it will be perfectly fine!

[Cljader1]

I thought it was pretty clear that you don't drain TP if you're at 300% TP. Did I misread that? No linkshell is going to say "drk melee only" unless the leaders are so inept that they don't realize how the drk throwing out a couple extra resolutions during the duration of the 2hour is going to both keep help kill shit faster. Besides, regain ticks are every 3 seconds, so regain alone won't be able to out pace this 2hour unless it's 100TP/tick, because you're still going to swing again before the next regain tick to shave off whatever the melees gave it after you WS'd. You're splitting hairs and bitching for the sake of bitching, and it's really quite insulting to the rest of us who didn't get one of the 2-3 useful abilities, and quite distracting to the thread as a whole.

Wrong! Drk keeps absorbing tp at 300%, once you reach 300% you cannot add more tp to yourself but your drained about stays the same. This also happens with abs-tp spell, drain 1, aspir 1, aspir2, once you hit the maximum capacity cap the drain will show as zero but it still drained and had the desired effect.

Moreover what are you talking about a FEW resolutions? Our 2hrs is only 30 secs, you blink and the buff is over with. You can only do one thing with it, zerg or tp-tank, and which would most linkshells and allainces choose? Almost everyone's 2hr is missed up, but however pup has one of the best new 2hrs. Having 6 new 2hrs added to one job is far better than have a 30 sec auto-attack tp drain.

[Cljader1]

Thats absorb TP, not this 2-hour, however since I have not tested this on the Test Server, I cant say for sure, but ok, just make that 1 change then, and it will be perfectly fine!

How do you not know this, especially if you play drk, it works the same with Blood Weapon too, if the dark knight is at its HP cap the drain will say zero but the desired effect is still there. You cannot drain beyond the cap, the only abilty and spell to do it is drain 2.

[Demon6324236]

How do you not know this, especially if you play drk, it works the same with Blood Weapon too, if the dark knight is at its HP cap the drain will say zero but the desired effect is still there. You cannot drain beyond the cap, the only abilty and spell to do it is drain 2.

Because I started playing DRK after BW became mostly worthless, as such I never used it really, and still don't, just been an ability in my list that I never use. As I said though, change that factor and tada, fixed. Also depending on how high the TP drain is depends on its use, I again, have not personally tested it so I have no idea. If the TP drain is say, as powerful as Ephemeron's or at least near it, your talking 60~90TP a hit, thats 1 hit to WS so long as the mob/NM has the TP to steal, in a zerg fight, it will. Even at 30TP/hit, thats 2 hits, at 20TP/hit thats about 3 hits. The math was given to you earlier on how many times you can hit...
Now, consider greatswords and scythes at haste cap: The average floored delay (80% reduction) for greatswords is around 91, while scythes are around 103. That means great swords will swing at a rate of around 1 attack round every 1.55 seconds, while scythes will be around 1.75 seconds. This means over 40 seconds (since the relic+2 2hour buff applies, currently) greatsword will have 25 attack rounds, while scythe will have 22. That's only rounds. That doesn't account for double/triple/quadruple attack, or misses. I'm not going to pretend to have any idea how much DA/TA/QA is on a typical drk zerg set, and just use a rough average of 25% DA since that seems to be fairly close for most jobs that aren't war or thf.

That would give greatsword 31 attacks and scythe 27, both before accuracy. Thus, even with scythe, you're still draining at rate between once every 1-2 seconds. With how potent the TP drain has been shown to be, and how mob AI works, there would need to be a significant amount of melees and/or regain present to negate that TP drain, and thus, essentially, this ability would give drk one of the strongest NM controlling abilities in the game. Why the hell are you complaining about it? You're going to get invited to zergs whether you have it or not. You're a fucking drk.So say your using a GS like a good DRK. Thats about 31 attacks, now cut that down because of the WS delay, your still talking about doing between 8~10 Resolutions or so I think, within a 30 second period, how in any way is that bad? Not only that but depending on the amount of TP you do drain, you can still be locking down the mobs TP!

Stop arguing this ability is bad, its good, the only thing they could do with it to make it better is either A:Increase duration, or B:Apply to WSs. However I will tell you now, depending on the WS drain amount, that could never happen if its 20 TP a hit, for instance, look at Resolution! 5 hits possible, hit with all hits, normal WSTP is about 17~20ish depending, then TP drains, thats 20~100, so if you land at least 4 hits you have 100% instantly!
it's not our intention to allow for weapon skills to be used continuously without limitationsSeems this would likely be the case for DRK as well, even if this was in response to something for DNC, so sorry but that doesn't seem likely unless you want them to gimp the TP/hit amount, or at least on WSs. Just leave it how it is, its ok, messing with it will likely cause a nerf of some sort, such as duration, potency, effect, something will happen and it probably wont be good, some people like this, such as myself, and see its good, so please leave it how it is for now and see how it works out, if your ls starts to complain that you are committing the evil crime of WSing on a NM, then so be it to come back and bitch then, till then please just leave it alone and let the thread focus on BST's chowing down on their pets for some Stoneskin or RDM's getting 30 seconds to buff up with buffs that have what? +20% potency?

[Cljader1]

Stop arguing this ability is bad, its good, the only thing they could do with it to make it better is either A:Increase duration, or B:Apply to WSs. However I will tell you now, depending on the WS drain amount, that could never happen if its 20 TP a hit, for instance, look at Resolution! 5 hits possible, hit with all hits, normal WSTP is about 17~20ish depending, then TP drains, thats 20~100, so if you land at least 4 hits you have 100% instantly!

Seems this would likely be the case for DRK as well, even if this was in response to something for DNC, so sorry but that doesn't seem likely unless you want them to gimp the TP/hit amount, or at least on WSs. Just leave it how it is, its ok, messing with it will likely cause a nerf of some sort, such as duration, potency, effect, something will happen and it probably wont be good, some people like this, such as myself, and see its good, so please leave it how it is for now and see how it works out, if your ls starts to complain that you are committing the evil crime of WSing on a NM, then so be it to come back and bitch then, till then please just leave it alone and let the thread focus on BST's chowing down on their pets for some Stoneskin or RDM's getting 30 seconds to buff up with buffs that have what? +20% potency?

That's what Im getting at, it needs a longer duration or effect ws, drks have the shortest 2hrs in the game. I agree with some of this I definitely dont want a fantastic nerf, but you know how things go around here, jobs get pigeon-holed very easily, and I can see this one from a mile away. Last thing I don't want to see is people shouting in port jueno for drk tp-tanks, and not wanting them to ws, you invite a drk you invite the ZERG bottomline. Ill be happy with a longer duration, 55tp seems to be the cap on a single attack, however you can drain, 3tp, 16tp, 30tp etc. So 55tp appears to be the cap, and you have to fight a mob with a considerable large regain to hit that cap. I would like SE too add duration or en-tp ws effect to it and NOT take anything away. But right now drks would probably be happy if SE simply just address us.

[Theytak]

Wrong! Drk keeps absorbing tp at 300%, once you reach 300% you cannot add more tp to yourself but your drained about stays the same. This also happens with abs-tp spell, drain 1, aspir 1, aspir2, once you hit the maximum capacity cap the drain will show as zero but it still drained and had the desired effect.

Moreover what are you talking about a FEW resolutions? Our 2hrs is only 30 secs, you blink and the buff is over with. You can only do one thing with it, zerg or tp-tank, and which would most linkshells and allainces choose? Almost everyone's 2hr is missed up, but however pup has one of the best new 2hrs. Having 6 new 2hrs added to one job is far better than have a 30 sec auto-attack tp drain.

If you account for whatever xhit build a good drk zerg set up would have, and the absurd amount of TP you're getting from this 2hour, you're basically going to have upwards of a 2-3 hit going on. Even accounting for WS delay, you should have absolutely no problem getting off 8-10 ws unless you're absolutely terrible at high haste meleeing.

Also, don't bring pup into this. We didn't get 6 new anything, we got 6 clones of already existing 2hours that were intentionally weakened so that they're not as strong as the player version.


That's what Im getting at, it needs a longer duration or effect ws, drks have the shortest 2hrs in the game. I agree with some of this I definitely dont want a fantastic nerf, but you know how things go around here, jobs get pigeon-holed very easily, and I can see this one from a mile away. Last thing I don't want to see is people shouting in port jueno for drk tp-tanks, and not wanting them to ws, you invite a drk you invite the ZERG bottomline. Ill be happy with a longer duration, 55tp seems to be the cap on a single attack, however you can drain, 3tp, 16tp, 30tp etc. So 55tp appears to be the cap, and you have to fight a mob with a considerable large regain to hit that cap. I would like SE too add duration or en-tp ws effect to it and NOT take anything away. But right now drks would probably be happy if SE simply just address us.
Iiiiiiii'm pretty sure Rng actually has the shortest 2hour in the game, since 1 single hit lasts a lot less than 30 seconds.

[Glamdring]

Oki, pass it on please. The beast community (at least those that can be botherred to wade through all the drivel on these forums to get to the meaningful content) has spoken, the answer is a RESOUNDING "NO!!!" to the new 2-hour. Scrap the concept completely and go back to the drawing board. Again, there are a myriad of suggestions from back when you guys 1st proposed new 2hours back at the inception of these forums. Disregarding anything similar to this useless piece of monkey dung the devs came up with and the obvious OP suggestions there were still plenty of viable alternatives to work from.

Seriously, if you didn't want the playerbase's input and opinions, why did you ask for them?

[FrankReynolds]

WAR:
The effect is the same as Formless Strikes, but since the job is different and the special traits are different as well, it’s not like you will receive the same exact effect. We’d be happy to hear feedback on the results of WARs using this ability. In regards to wanting the ability’s effect to apply to weapon skills as well, this would make it so that it is far stronger than Mighty Strikes. As an alternative, we are extending the effect duration to open up more attack opportunities.

Correction: Making this 2hr apply to weapon skills would make it more powerful than mighty strikes when used against things that are incredibly strong / immune to physical damage (the only time you would ever use this).

There is so much "broken" in your logic that I don't know what to say other than: instead of thinking about why you are right and we are wrong, try our idea first and see if it works. We already know that yours does not.



DNC:
While this can be used similar to Meikyo Shisui, there are of course other ways to use it as well. Since there is an advantage point of being able to use it in combination with other abilities, there are a lot of different uses, so we would like to hear feedback after trying it and considering that aspect as well.

Just because you have figured out how to make a coffee warmer out of an Ipad doesn't mean that people want you to do it to theirs. The "different uses" that you refer to will never be used by any sane person. Trance sucks bad enough. Can we please have a really good one?



BST:
We understand that sacrificing your pet for Stoneskin results in a reduction in attack power. This Stoneskin effect is not used like the magic spell Stoneskin that you would use before entering a fight. It is something that is used in a crisis situation in order to recover and avoid emergencies (For example, if your pet is on the verge of dying and when that happens you will be put in a dangerous spot, etc.)

This 2 hour ability is absolutely no good. I've read the JP forums and they say the same things. Stop acting like you don't understand the problem here. No one believes that a total moron can develop a video game. We know that you understand what we are trying to tell you. The pet needs to stay. I don't care if you add invincibility for 9 hours to the master. the pet has to stay. Did you hear that? The pet has to stay. Read that out loud. The pet has to stay. Is it sinking in yet? The pet has to stay.

[Glamdring]

@Frank,

you were a little vague there on the beast 2 hour. Are you saying the consensus opinion amongst beasts is that we need to keep our pets? That's my personal opinion, but the devs seem to be convinced that beasts feel differently.

[FrankReynolds]

@Frank,

you were a little vague there on the beast 2 hour. Are you saying the consensus opinion amongst beasts is that we need to keep our pets? That's my personal opinion, but the devs seem to be convinced that beasts feel differently.

yes. lol. ten character limit >.<

[Luvbunny]

THE PET HAS TO STAY, no matter what!! Agreed totally. What kind of an idiot come up with this retarded new 2 hours for beast master, not to mention countless of extremely horrendous ideas for 2 hours for several jobs, ALL EXCEPT Samurai, which actually get one of the best new two hours, pretty much the best of the best from several jobs. The thing that is the most baffling is their constant ignorance to what the players are trying to tell them. Several threads already made suggestions and their stance is still, WE DO NOT CARE NOR LISTEN.... This is a very sad direction indeed....

[Keinn]

I agree that the new BST 2 hour should not be one that consumes the pet. I'd like to see a new idea that enhances the pet in some way.

[Czeph]

Anyone down for some new 2-hour information on this fine Tuesday?

We introduced two of them during VanaFest, but we just got a hold of the full list!

Currently, we are making adjustments to the effects and running tests on all of these new abilities, and we are planning to implement them in the upcoming test server update. However, as the Development Team is still working on getting all the kinks out, some will not be available right away. They will be doing their best to get as many new 2-hour abilities onto the test server as possible in the next update.

*The name and help text messages for each ability will be tentative when implemented to the test server. Also the effects and their values may be adjusted.

<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"><td width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Job</td><td width="75%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Effects</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">WAR</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Regular attacks will become non-elemental and grants a drastic increase in accuracy.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">MNK</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Grants a 100% counter-rate against regular attacks from enemies. Also, the amount of enmity gained by this will increase drastically.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">WHM</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants party members protection from status ailments.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">BLM</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Grants a drastic decrease in enmity generated by magic attacks.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">RDM</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants an increase to the effect of enhancing magic.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">THF</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Major damage is dealt to the enemy and all enmity will be transferred to the player standing in front of them.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">PLD</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">DRK</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Steals an enemy's TP through regular attacks while the effect is active.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">BST</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">BRD</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Drastically reduces the magic defense, magic evasion, and INT/MND of the target.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">RNG</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">The range modifier will become the optimal distance no matter the range to the target. Also, ammunition will not be consumed.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">SAM</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">All damage caused by physical special abilities will be evaded. Additionally, weapon skill damage will increase as more special abilities are evaded.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">NIN</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants a drastic increase in parry rate. Additionally, Ninjutsu recast times will be reduced by 50% and ninja tools will not be consumed.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">DRG</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Wyvern’s HP is completely restored and all status ailments are cured. Additionally, the wyvern’s stats will increase.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">SMN</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">The recast time of both summoning magic and Blood Pacts will become 0 while under the effect of the ability.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">BLU</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">While the ability is in effect, blue magic from Unbridled Learning can be used continuously.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">COR</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants the ability to use up to 3 Phantom Roll effects.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">PUP</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Automaton will use special abilities. Special ability usage will depend on the automaton head.<br>Harlequin Head: Mighty Strikes<br>Valoredge Head: Invincible<br>Sharpshot Head: Eagle Eye Shot<br>Stormwaker Head: Chainspell<br>Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will apply to the party members and automaton itself)<br>Spiritreaver Head: Manafont</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">DNC</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants maximum amount of Finishing Moves and the recast time of all Flourishes will be reset.<br>Additionally, while the ability is in effect, Finishing Moves will not be consumed.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">SCH</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Will direct enmity of all party members to an indicated player.</td></tr></table>

First thing I will say is that reading these 2 hour abilities was a painfull process. I will try to tackle these 1 at a time.....

The new warrior 2 hour ability: seems fine if it's applied to weaponskills as well as swings, it would be viable for regular situational use.

The new monk 2 hour ability: This seems like a tanking 2 hour ability and a reasonable panic button for anything that doesn't use area of effect melee swings constantly. Sounds more like it should be done for paladin than monk to me.

The new white mage 2 hour ability: I can see it being situationally usefull. I hope it means -all- status ailments including death.

The new black mage 2 hour ability: back to the drawing board on this one. Just useless. maybe give black mages a job ability type spell like say "ultima" that consumes the mp pool entirely and does a solid 4000 unresistable damage.

The new red mage 2 hour ability: back to the drawing board on this one too. Seems a futile attempt at a 2 hour.

The new thief 2 hour ability: This may be quite usefull if repairs to the enmity mechanics are made, but it feels more like it should share a timer with trick attack and sneak attack, and do the same damage when bully is in effect on the monster that is targeted reguardless of another player standing there, rather than acting as a 2hr.... but if a 2 hour on it's own timer is what we get it's livable.

The new paladin 2 hour ability: I just don't know what you are trying to suggest here, this sounds like what reprisal should have been. I mean honestly, a 2 hour ability that mitigates all magic and breath damage whilest keeping the enemies attention focussed on the paladin for the duration of the 2 hour ability would have been a better option. And there are many better options posted on the forums no doubt.

The new dark knight 2 hour ability: this would have to be 100% procc to be usefull nothing resisting it. unlike blood weapon vs undead (a futile gesture, by way of illustration). And honestly, I think that dark knight would want something more damaging than tactical.

The new beastmaster 2 hour ability: I lack the vocabulary to describe what a bad idea this is.

The new ranger 2 hour ability: This seems like a potentially usefull 2 hour ability, I would suggest that all actions taken under this should generate 0 enmity, to make it worthy of having a 2 hour recast.

The new samurai 2 hour ability: This one seems about right for an ability you can use once every 2 hours.

The new ninja 2 hour ability: I can see the thinking on this one, but I doubt it will be well received by the player base, perhaps a rethink here too.

The new dragoon 2 hour ability: This is possibly the most pointless thing in the entire list. Start again please. I suggest something like a 2 hour where the player super jumps, the wyvern becomes constantly under the effect of deep breathing and the player takes control of the wyvern and can repeatedly use smiting breath, similar to chainspell but for breaths.

The new summoner 2 hour ability: This seems like it would be fun, if nothing else. I would suggest reducing the mp cost to 0 for this also.

The new blue mage 2 hour ability: I feel that unbridled learning should allow access to casting any spell that you have learnt although you wouldn't gain traits or bonuses from it as it's not set. That would make this 2 hour ability work. Otherwise just another gimmick.

The new corsair 2 hour ability: kind of acceptable imo, but people won't want to give up wild card for 2 hour resets so easily.

The new puppet master 2 hour ability: again this feels more like a gimmick than a well thought out 2 hour ability. however I'm less knowledgable about puppetmaster than any other job on the game, but surely we can do better.

The new dancer 2 hour ability: This must have sounded good on paper, but again this is a token 2 hour ability. please go back to the drawing board.

The new scholar 2 hour ability: This should be a spell that can be used under tabula rasa not a new ability.

Ofcourse these are just the oppinions of someone who's played the game since it was available in the uk.
I'm not saying my suggested fixes/instructions are the only way to go, just ideas. I'm sure there are better ones out there. I just feel something had to be said, these seem like 20 minute or even 30 minute timers would be better for them.
Even regular 2 hour abilities should probably be on 30-60 minute timers nowadays rather than 2 hour timers.

[Economizer]

Haven't gotten a lot of testing information for the White Mage 2hour from other players, but currently the word is that it doesn't block Death or Encumbrance. No word on if it even blocks Bard songs or Doom, let alone Amnesia, Charm, or anything else special, but I'm guessing it probably doesn't until I hear otherwise.

Perfect Defense blocks many enfeebles in addition to blocking damage from really harming players. White Mages can remove many enfeebles with lightning speed.

I'm guessing it won't get tested by people with current Test Server access and will go on the main servers to never get touched again, kinda how Benediction can't even remove Bard songs from players.

[Calatilla]

The new thief 2 hour ability: This may be quite usefull if repairs to the enmity mechanics are made, but it feels more like it should share a timer with trick attack and sneak attack, and do the same damage when bully is in effect on the monster that is targeted reguardless of another player standing there, rather than acting as a 2hr.... but if a 2 hour on it's own timer is what we get it's liveable.

The last thing THF needs is another JA sharing a timer with something else, we have enough of those already. This ability would have to do a substantial amount of damage to warrant a 2hr recast, it's basically TA on a 2hr timer. It's unlikely to do any meaningful damage since SE seems reluctant to improve THF`s DD potential while at the same time giving all our abilities to other jobs and buffing those more than THF.

An ability along the lines of 100% triple attack for 30seconds-1min would be worlds better than this. That or SCH`s proposed 2hr.

[Demon6324236]

The new black mage 2 hour ability: back to the drawing board on this one. Just useless. maybe give black mages a job ability type spell like say "ultima" that consumes the mp pool entirely and does a solid 4000 unresistable damage.Rather than a static number, lets go with something a bit more fun! It allows you to cast Ultima on a mob, single target, takes all MP, damage is unresistable and deals 5 times the users current MP.


The new corsair 2 hour ability: kind of acceptable imo, but people won't want to give up wild card for 2 hour resets so easily.Honestly I see this as 1 of the worse 2-hours we are getting. BRD is in the same line as a COR in a way, however COR has to use a 2-hour for 1 more buff where as with the Emp Harp a BRD can already do upto 4 songs at any time. Seems a bit unbalanced on the buffer side in my opinion.


The new scholar 2 hour ability: This should be a spell that can be used under tabula rasa not a new ability.Agreed, this ability is 100% worthless in the current game when put beside Tabula Rasa.


Ofcourse these are just the oppinions of someone who's played the game since it was available in the uk.
I'm not saying my suggested fixes/instructions are the only way to go, just ideas. I'm sure there are better ones out there. I just feel something had to be said, these seem like 20 minute or even 30 minute timers would be better for them.
Even regular 2 hour abilities should probably be on 30-60 minute timers nowadays rather than 2 hour timers.

Yep, abilities like these are to long and too weak now days, I was hoping these 2-hours would be worth the wait but SE once again let us all down, except SAM, SAM is wonderful.

[Czeph]

The main reason I suggested a static number was that when you are pushed to use it you would probably have low mp. however this could become very exploitable with a more fluid number the way your suggesting. think about 18 blms with max mp builds using it at once to one shot notorious monsters that still matter, the reason I suggest 4000 as a static figure is that anything voidwatch onwards usually has significantly more than 72000hp, however as much fun as it would be to do a straight multiple of mp, it would become overpowered imo. With current equipment you would be looking at something like 3000ish maximum mp, potentially even greater numbers. although 2x maximum mp pool for damage figures would work without unbalancing things, I think 3x maximum mp would turn out over powered, and less than 2x mp pool would be underpowered for a 2 hour ability.

[Czeph]

The last thing THF needs is another JA sharing a timer with something else, we have enough of those already. This ability would have to do a substantial amount of damage to warrant a 2hr recast, it's basically TA on a 2hr timer. It's unlikely to do any meaningful damage since SE seems reluctant to improve THF`s DD potential while at the same time giving all our abilities to other jobs and buffing those more than THF.

An ability along the lines of 100% triple attack for 30seconds-1min would be worlds better than this. That or SCH`s proposed 2hr.

yes, that would be a better 2hr option. perhaps named assasin's flurry? but would that apply to weaponskills as well? sounds fun if that's the case.

[Czeph]

also reguarding the response to my endorsement of corsair's 2 hour ability, we must also consider that corsair is a damage dealer that can produce high damage numbers as well as buff a party. Perhaps something more in a dd vain for corsair would have been a more appropriate, but under the assumption that this ability would be used like soulvoice, perhaps the ability to put 3 rolls on under the ability and hit 11 with each roll?

[Dawnn]

Can someone link me to the name's of the new 2 hours?
I'd really love to find them

[Theytak]

Honestly I see this as 1 of the worse 2-hours we are getting. BRD is in the same line as a COR in a way, however COR has to use a 2-hour for 1 more buff where as with the Emp Harp a BRD can already do upto 4 songs at any time. Seems a bit unbalanced on the buffer side in my opinion.
In defense of the cor 2hour, at the very least, it lasts until you zone. So long as you keep overwriting the third roll before it wears off, you can keep up your third roll indefinitely. Not sure if that's a bug, but it's really the only saving grace of it.


Can someone link me to the name's of the new 2 hours?
I'd really love to find them

posted it a few pages back;

Also, apparently, they added some working names for some of the 2hours:
war: Imminent Strikes
whm: Asylum
blm: Sublte Sorcery (The typo is in game)
rdm: Encomium
pld: Righteous Guard
drk: DRK2h (read: no name yet)
bst: Feral Sacrifice (So... yea)
brd: Malinconico
rng: Instinctive Aim
sam: Yaegasumi
nin: Tengen
drg: Rouse Wyvern
smn: Astral Conduit
blu: Unbridled Wisdom
cor: Three to One
pup: Heady Artifice (... /facepalm.... you make the terrible thing worse by giving it a punny name....)
dnc: Grand Pas
sch: Caper Emissarius

If nothing else, they're good at naming stuff. The names don't make them suck any less, but most of them do sound cool.

[Dawnn]

thf's 2hr doesn't have a name? or it isn't on the list?

[Karbuncle]

thf's 2hr doesn't have a name? or it isn't on the list?

Its the only one not on the server ATM. - Oh and MNK

They fear me.

[Mefuki]

I'm not a WHM but according to testing, Asylum doesn't guard against Death, Doom, Encumbrance, Terror, Def Down or Stun. So, here's my question: Is there a point to this 2 Hour given this new information?

[Calatilla]

Its the only one not on the server ATM. - Oh and MNK

They fear me.

If it's as crap as it sounds it doesn't deserve a name.

Edit: I think the whole idea of a second 2hr ability is a waste of resources to tell you the truth, as it stands all but maybe 1(sam?) won't even be used over the originals so it makes no real difference if these all suck or not.

[Vandheer]

Feral Sacrifice... Really SE? We aren't sacrificing our pets... we're eating them!

The scenario you gave us for when BST would use this 2-hour is exactly the same as we predicted and Beastmasters will NEVER be in a situation like that. Allow me to point you to an ongoing thread discussing everyones point of view on this 2-hour with suggestions. x]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26365-dev1135-Beastmaster-2-Hour-Ability-Comments-After-Testing.

[SpankWustler]

I'm not a WHM but according to testing, Asylum doesn't guard against Death, Doom, Encumbrance, Terror, Def Down or Stun. So, here's my question: Is there a point to this 2 Hour given this new information?

Well, it's probably more useful than Benediction nowadays. Then again, an exact copy of Eagle Eye Shot to be used with the strongest tathlum possible would be similarly more useful than Benediction nowadays, so that's not saying much.

It's kind of mind-boggling that Asylum doesn't even block stuff removed by Erase. Somebody had to dig deep to think of something that disappointing.

At the very least, at an absolute minimum, Asylum should block everything an enhanced Esuna can remove.

[Camate]

Greetings!

During this week’s Test Server update we will be adding monk’s new 2-hour ability, so be sure to try it out and let us know your feedback.

I’d just like to reiterate that we will be spending a good amount of time working on these new 2-hour abilities before we actually implement them. We would like to make sure that they are useful in battle, so we will not be rushing to get these onto the live servers right away.

The Development Team is continuing to look into possibilities based on all the feedback we are receiving and they will actually be holding a meeting soon to discuss this. We’d like to respond with the results of their discussion and talk about the direction they are heading after this takes place.

Until then, please continue to test out the new abilities and provide your feedback! :)

[Demon6324236]

Greetings!

During this week’s Test Server update we will be adding monk’s new 2-hour ability, so be sure to try it out and let us know your feedback.

I’d just like to reiterate that we will be spending a good amount of time working on these new 2-hour abilities before we actually implement them. We would like to make sure that they are useful in battle, so we will not be rushing to get these onto the live servers right away.

The Development Team is continuing to look into possibilities based on all the feedback we are receiving and they will actually be holding a meeting soon to discuss this. We’d like to respond with the results of their discussion and talk about the direction they are heading after this takes place.

Until then, please continue to test out the new abilities and provide your feedback! :)

Thank you for the update on the 2-hour abilities Camate, its nice to see the MNK 2-hour will be able to be tested soon, however I still have to worry about the seemingly unsatisfactory sounding THF 2-hour. In either case it is good to see that there are no plans to just throw these at the players without making sure they are liked, and useful. I would like to ask however, can you please tell us, has the voice of the players regarding the BST 2-hour been properly given to the Devs yet? And have they reconsidered the abilities of this effect? I would like to remind you before you tell us, that we are not worried about losing offensive power, rather we worry about losing our defense, for what is seemingly less defense. I would like to think that this game really is trying to improve, by listening to the player base, and even though at times we do not all agree, in this case, it seems nearly unanimous that we do not like this ability, and want to see it changed, I think changing this as players wish would go a long way in showing that the new man in charge, is truly listening to players feedback, and taking it into consideration.

[Infidi]

Greetings!

During this week’s Test Server update we will be adding monk’s new 2-hour ability, so be sure to try it out and let us know your feedback.

I’d just like to reiterate that we will be spending a good amount of time working on these new 2-hour abilities before we actually implement them. We would like to make sure that they are useful in battle, so we will not be rushing to get these onto the live servers right away.

The Development Team is continuing to look into possibilities based on all the feedback we are receiving and they will actually be holding a meeting soon to discuss this. We’d like to respond with the results of their discussion and talk about the direction they are heading after this takes place.

Until then, please continue to test out the new abilities and provide your feedback! :)

Can you at least put SMN on live server? It's awesome the way it is! XD j/k j/k. I know they will be all at once. Or ARE you guys going to release them as they are "finalized" so to say?. :D

[Karbuncle]

At first i kinda laughed, but at this point, I'm kinda getting a little on the upset side at how long THF's 2hour is taking to get on the Test server...

The optimist in me is hoping they're fine-tunning it to be a powerful tool, and are just taking a little longer than necessary.

The Pessimist in me assumes they made it too strong to begin with and are just nerfing it properly.

[Monchat]

the new MNK 2H looks OK if it lasts 3 minutes, say.

Anything would be better than hundred fists. HF was good during the level 75 cap, but nowadayas its way too situational, because as soon as you have a bard(2x march) or a sch (embrava) you are capped on haste (double marches is a permanent hundred fist that do not evan require 2H ability). Last time I found HF useful was on those Iron giants that have a 1 minute weakness move lol..

[saevel]

Most of the *new* 2hr's are complete crap, either far to short a duration or to weak an effect to be useful. A few are good though highly situational.

Camate could the devs look to shorten the recasts of all "2 hours" into something like 30 minutes? The game has changed significantly since 2002 and the idea of any ability being on a 120 minute timer is really bad. Super awesome abilities should be on a 30 minute time, short enough to be used yet long enough to prevent abuse.

[Afania]

Rather than a static number, lets go with something a bit more fun! It allows you to cast Ultima on a mob, single target, takes all MP, damage is unresistable and deals 5 times the users current MP.

Honestly I see this as 1 of the worse 2-hours we are getting. BRD is in the same line as a COR in a way, however COR has to use a 2-hour for 1 more buff where as with the Emp Harp a BRD can already do upto 4 songs at any time. Seems a bit unbalanced on the buffer side in my opinion.



Considering COR buff is way more potent, while BRD need to stack many same song type, I wouldn't say it's such huge deal.

If there are no embrava, BRD already used 2 buff slot for haste, if there are embrava, then most commonly used songs are attack/acc.

Compare with attack/acc roll COR has:


No.4 Chaos gives 35% attack with DRK(you should always have DRK in DD pt anyways), No.11 gives 41%. Average number like 6 or 7 gives 23%~26%

If you use chaos first on your roll rotation, you will never pop unlucky. A melee job like DRK should be able to hit 1k+ attack(I think) with food/JA up. So that's easily 230+ attack with average number like 6~7, and 400+ attack with No.11. With just 1 buff slot.

A 4 song BRD singing Minuet 2~5 but didn't pop 2hr:

Minuet 2=32 attack, 3=48, 4= 56 5=62

32+48+56+62=198

198 attack with 4 buff slot, still inferior to 1 No.6 Chaos roll in terms of buff potency.

Hunters roll is a little bit less potent than chaos, assuming no RNG in pt, No. 4 hunters gives 40 accuracy, No.11 gives 50. No.8 gives 5, No. 6 gives 20. Having RNG in pt or Af2 hat proc gives extra 15 more.

Sword Madrigal gives 15 acc, Blade gives 30.

So as long as there's a RNG in pt or AF2 hat proc, a No.10, 11, 4 hunters still more potent than 2 Madrigal.

Basically, a 4 song BRD needs to pop 2hr to reach same amount of attack buff potency COR can give with just 1 buff slot. I don't see how it's very unbalanced. That's not accounting COR has it's own output to add up while BRD has none in any EG event worthwhile(1h melee sucked on anything worthwhile and very dangerous, while COR has access to /ra and magical WS and got less disadvantage with AoE/lv correction). Add all that together, it's fairly equal IMO.

[Monchat]

A 4 song BRD singing Minuet 2~5 but didn't pop 2hr:

Minuet 2=32 attack, 3=48, 4= 56 5=62

32+48+56+62=198

198 attack with 4 buff slot, still inferior to 1 No.6 Chaos roll in terms of buff potency.


you didn't count song + instruments/gear and merits. 4xminuets from bard is quite awsome, but in practice not very useful due to RCB and berzerk ( 2x minuet, rcb and berzerk puts you at ~1100 attack on most DDs, which is caped attack on many mobs, and ~950 attacks if you cannot berserk).

For info. my Gjallarhorn 99 + daurdable 99 bard's quadruple minuets (non SV'ed) gives: STR+20, attack+281, and it doesn't have merits in minuets ( add +20 attack if merits). A non Gjallarhorn bard (+3 instrument) with minuet merits should give the same bonus.

also chaos roll probably works like berserk, in the sense its a percentage bonus of your attack before food. So if your DD has 1000 attack, and uses RCB, chaos will give 23% (or whatever number) of 850, and not 23% of 1000.


Same remark for madrigals. You have +1 on AF3+2 and +3 instrument (+4 on relic). If I recal, double madrigals actually gives ~80 accuracy.

[Kari]

Greetings!

During this week’s Test Server update we will be adding monk’s new 2-hour ability, so be sure to try it out and let us know your feedback.

I’d just like to reiterate that we will be spending a good amount of time working on these new 2-hour abilities before we actually implement them. We would like to make sure that they are useful in battle, so we will not be rushing to get these onto the live servers right away.

The Development Team is continuing to look into possibilities based on all the feedback we are receiving and they will actually be holding a meeting soon to discuss this. We’d like to respond with the results of their discussion and talk about the direction they are heading after this takes place.

Until then, please continue to test out the new abilities and provide your feedback! :)

Sorry, but that's pretty laughable. You say you want to make sure they're useful in battle, a large portion of them are not. We've told you why many times and never get any responses except "tell us what you want", when we do.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Most of the *new* 2hr's are complete crap, either far to short a duration or to weak an effect to be useful. A few are good though highly situational.

Camate could the devs look to shorten the recasts of all "2 hours" into something like 30 minutes? The game has changed significantly since 2002 and the idea of any ability being on a 120 minute timer is really bad. Super awesome abilities should be on a 30 minute time, short enough to be used yet long enough to prevent abuse.

The 2-hours just need to be as crazy OP as SCH's to work. As it stands, only SCH's (original obviously) can be justified for 2-hours. It's the same as the merit system, they lack power to justify the limit.

Every last new 2-hour has no true justification for the 2-hour delay, a lot of these are not even powerful enough to justify longer than 10 minutes.

I've noticed the new guy has posted something on the JP forums about the 2-hours recast etc I can only hope it gets translated soon and is positive.

[Okipuit]

Hello!

I have some news from Producer Akihiko Matsui, which I believe you will all be quite happy about! :)



Hello this is Matsui.
Sorry to keep you waiting, but I have some follow up information in regards to SP abilities.

Today we once again looked into what would be the best way to implement the new SP abilities moving forward. I’d like to give a brief summary of the development plans based on the results of our discussion.

The below are the 4 main aspects of change for the 2-hour abilities.
　
1. New SP ability and existing SP ability recast timer separation

　
2. Recast time reduction

　
3. New SP ability effects revamp

　
4. Existing SP ability effects revamp


　
With all of these changes, the previously planned implementation date for the new SP abilities as shown on the roadmap will be significantly pushed back. I apologize deeply for making you all wait, but we took a lot of time to decide the above so that we could deliver something that everyone enjoys and matches the current game.

We are currently working on preparing a revised roadmap to be released. We expect this to take a little bit of time, but please hang in there.

[Byrth]

Generally these are steps in the right direction.

Please don't nerf stuff too much. You note in the JP version of this post that the content time these days is more like 30 minutes than 2 hours, and there really shouldn't be a compelling reason to nerf something that you can only use once per event.

As for Embrava and Perfect Defense, nerfing these is acceptable as long as you adjust the content that heavily relies on them.

[Ophannus]

As a prime suggestion from the Dragoon community regarding Rouse Wyvern SP ability, Dragoons need an SP ability that does not require the Wyvern to be alive to be used. The reasoning is that if the player is KO'd in the first few moments of a battlefield, the Wyvern is KO'd too since all of the damage resistance and Steady Wing and etc don't mean anything if the player itself dies(which is extremely likely in VW or Legion).

That being said, Dragoons need an SP ability to use that can be used if the player's Wyvern is unavailable, which in practical applications and reality, is very often in end game fights with the dizzying prevalence of AoE Death or Doom or high damage Meteor or TP moves which the Wyvern would have survived, if the Dragoon player didn't take 2400 damage.

One suggestion for a revamped DRG 2hr is to make all of the Dragoon's attacks ignore physical defense(includes weapon skills) or level correction, which fits Dragoon's theme of piercing and ignore defense(Wheeling Thrust; Camlann's Torement) Alternatively, the revamped SP could be a monumentally high Attack Bonus since this is really at its core what Dragoon sorely lacks, a self buff that enhances damage directly.

[Insaniac]

However, we believe that we will have no choice but add the lowering of effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava to our scope of adjustments. You really don't have to do this. There are several events that rely very very heavily on Perfect Defense and Embrava that would also require a near complete rebuild if you mess with these abilities. Some NMs and events, I believe, were created with these specific abilities in mind. Arch Dynamis Lord for example would be a nightmare without perfect defense, Neo-Nyzul would be even more unreasonable without embrava, and some legion halls would be completely impossible without both.

If you absolutely must change these abilities then remove the necessity for them from the the game first. I think, though, that you could make people much more happy by bringing other 2hours up to their level.

[BigPapaBlueJay]

Don't start off as the new producer nerfing things, we are happy with 2-hour waits for their current effects.

[Zhronne]

I like everything Mr Matsui said.
My only concerns is for those events which currently rely heavily on Embrava and Perfect Defense.
Stuff like Legion, Arch Dynamis Lord and New Nyzul.

My opinion is that... it's a vicious circle.
PD and Embrava were too powerful to begin with.
Taking that into consideration, SE played cheap while creating new events, trying to keep them challenging despite Embrava and PD.
The consequence of this is that Embrava and PD became mandatory and not just optional for events like those.

If they nerf PD and Embrava the result will be that those events will be even harder, and Marrows price will go up.
I seriously hope that if they really go that way, they'll slightly tweak the 3 mentioned events, and anything else necessary.

[tyrantsyn]

Well timer's are getting reduce and seperated, that should make more than a few ppl happy.

[MarkovChain]

Arch dynamis lord is unkillable w/o PD so please take caution to this.

[Insaniac]

That's not entirely true. I've seen it killed with EA/Scherzo but it took an entire alliance and it wasn't pretty.

[Karbuncle]

Can't imagine EA or Scherzo doing much of anything since most of his AoE's do about 700~800 damage at level 99, Which isn't going to be high enough to activate either of those, unless your HP Is only 1k~1.2k or so.

But yah, Nerfing Perfect Defense is going to make Arch Dynamis Lord pretty much impossible, and nerfing Neo-Nyzul Isle is going to make that even more difficult(not impossible) for non-bot/flee Players, since that plays a huge role in it.

Long story short - SE is taking the nerf bat to the only two relevant events Absolute Virtue style, May as well hurry and get it down now since they never do a "Light Nerf".

perfect Defense is probably going to be changed to give maybe a 50% DT if we're lucky, probably half Duration too.
Embrava? Probably nerf the Effects of Haste down to 20% At best, Regain 3TP, and Regen half of what it is now.

There is no such thing as a moderation when it comes to SE nerfs. RNG anyone?

Anyone?

Bueller?

----------------------------------------------------------

Negativity out of the way, I really enjoy the changes the new 2hours will be seeing, Which makes me quit happy. That for sure is a step in the right direction. Even though that horrible sentence in the last spoiler makes me weep for the future of any level 99 Relic Weapon or Nyzul Gear, since it will be 99% impossible for players past the nerf to obtain, I like the updates, and thank you for Translating them for us.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

You really don't have to do this. There are several events that rely very very heavily on Perfect Defense and Embrava that would also require a near complete rebuild if you mess with these abilities. Some NMs and events, I believe, were created with these specific abilities in mind. Arch Dynamis Lord for example would be a nightmare without perfect defense, Neo-Nyzul would be even more unreasonable without embrava, and some legion halls would be completely impossible without both.

If you absolutely must change these abilities then remove the necessity for them from the the game first. I think, though, that you could make people much more happy by bringing other 2hours up to their level.

If it drops to recast 30 minutes they do need to revamp these as they were and still are OP, they have that or to completely OP every other jobs 2-hour and that will do far more damage than good.


Don't start off as the new producer nerfing things, we are happy with 2-hour waits for their current effects.

No we're not. SCH and SMN may be, but no other job is. No offence, but please ignore these kind of posts devs.

[Zubis]

Okipuit giving good news? Someone's no longer the new guy I guess ;)

[Raksha]

If it drops to recast 30 minutes they do need to revamp these as they were and still are OP, they have that or to completely OP every other jobs 2-hour and that will do far more damage than good.



There is no 2hr that would be OP on a 30min timer. They only event that would even be affected is Dynamis, since you could 2hr 3-4 times in an entire run.

It's already common practice to reset 2hrs anyway after an NNI or legion run, this would only save time and hassle.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

There is no 2hr that would be OP on a 30min timer. They only event that would even be affected is Dynamis, since you could 2hr 3-4 times in an entire run.

It's already common practice to reset 2hrs anyway after an NNI or legion run, this would only save time and hassle.

Disagree completely. Both Embrava and Perfect Defence is SEVERELY OP on 30 minutes, especially compared to EVERY other 2-hour in the game. Just because a way exists to abuse 2-hour reset doesn't change that.

[Zubis]

There are several events that rely very very heavily on Perfect Defense and Embrava that would also require a near complete rebuild if you mess with these abilities.

Isn't that the point of this change? Mix things up so you don't see shouts looking for SMN's and SCH's anymore.

[Arcon]

Don't start off as the new producer nerfing things, we are happy with 2-hour waits for their current effects.

Hell no. Two-hour abilities are one of the worst design choice this game did so far. I wouldn't even mind if they purged them all entirely.

I do hope, though, that they take Byrth's advice and adjust content to reflect those changes. They should be careful with how they approach this. Don't let the people in charge wait six months to realize how they screwed everything up if they don't adjust the events accordingly.

[Sargent]

However, we believe that we will have no choice but add the lowering of effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava to our scope of adjustments.

Either don't nerf these too badly (maybe lower potency a tad), or as was said, adjust the content that demands them. No one's in debate as to how broken both of these are, but reducing them to the point of useless would be detrimental to a lot of events.

[Zirael]

[...]
As for Embrava and Perfect Defense, nerfing these is acceptable as long as you adjust the content that heavily relies on them.
Nyzul Isle Uncharted, ADL and Legion were designed so that they would require Embrava and/or Perfect Defence (plus Wild Card/Revitalizers) to succeed. Depending on your approach, this might not bode well for popularity of those events.

[Crocker]

Remake the new BST 2hr from ground up and while your at it rework Run Wild to not despawn your pet.
The only time I use Run wild is when I get the 5 min warning at the end of dynamis.

Suggestion for new 2 hour: Morphs Current jug pet to a Mini King HNM or another style NM like Chloris, which it chooses will be random. Duration 30 mins when used with current 2hr extends time by another 15-30 mins.

Or if your lazy for something like that do the opposite of what it does now Take HP from us up to 50% of current HP and give the pets like 3 times that and give the pet haste erase stoneskin and whatever else was there.