Oh by the way, pet TH gear?

[Malthar]

So SE, where are these pet th+ gear you promised bst for gimping th on Yuley and Falcorr? The beastmaster community would like to know.

[Camiie]

It would be nice to hear something on this. Is it still coming? Have the devs forgotten about it? Were they hoping we had? It's not nice to promise things and then not deliver, guys!

[Vandheer]

Agreed and agreed.

Whats up SE? Fill us in on whats up with our TH gear?

[deces]

This TH "gear" you speak of is a myth, we will only be getting one item for TH as stated when the nerf took place. the only way for bst to get TH 3 will be sub thf. Sorry to bring the bad news, I quit for five months after reading that and decided to comeback when it was announced that Mr. T was getting shit canned.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

This TH "gear" you speak of is a myth, we will only be getting one item for TH as stated when the nerf took place. the only way for bst to get TH 3 will be sub thf. Sorry to bring the bad news, I quit for five months after reading that and decided to comeback when it was announced that Mr. T was getting shit canned.

They stated gear to reach the same level as what was previously obtainable, that's TH3.

That said it's been a year since they announced accessing storage in all areas, don't expect this gear in our lifetime.

[deces]

They stated gear to reach the same level as what was previously obtainable, that's TH3.

That said it's been a year since they announced accessing storage in all areas, don't expect this gear in our lifetime.
Well I could not find a direct link to the post from the devs about it but read this. maybe I read it wrong.
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/28478/dev-treasure-hunter-effect-amongst-jobs

[Okipuit]

Greetings BSTs,

We received positive and negative feedback about the adjustment of Treasure Hunter for Dipper Yuly and Faithful Falcorr, and we would like to let you know that this was to keep the overall balance amongst other jobs and their Treasure Hunter effects. After thorough review, we are starting to see the results we intended to meet, so there are no plans to make any further Treasure Hunter adjustments to these pets.

We definitely understand the intense discussions these changes have brought about, especially regarding obtaining currency through Dynamis and Beastmaster's qualities, but please understand that the these adjustments were necessary after reviewing the drop results.


Oh by the way, pet TH gear?

So SE, where are these pet th+ gear you promised bst for gimping th on Yuley and Falcorr? The beastmaster community would like to know.


There was no promise to create gear that would counter the reduction of treasure hunter on beastmaster pets Dipper Yuly and Faithful Falcorr.

[Kalilla]

NVM, you undeleted it.

[Zagen]

There was no promise to create gear that would counter the reduction of treasure hunter on beastmaster pets Dipper Yuly and Faithful Falcorr.

This implies otherwise:


As an adjustment to the balance of Treasure Hunter at level 99, the below pets will have their Treasure Hunter effect changed to Treasure Hunter I.

-Dipper Yuly
-Faithful Falcorr
※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger.


Edit: and if you'll argue that in that same post this was said:

Here is the premise regarding the hierarchy of the Treasure Hunter effect (from strongest to weakest).

1. Thief
2. Ranger
3. Support job thief
4. Other jobs

MNK / WHM / BLM / RDM / PLD / BRD / RNG / SMN / BLU / PUP / SCH can all get TH 3 when using an augmented Tarutaru Sash from Abyssea - La Theine and subbing THF...

[SpankWustler]

I think it's best not to look at what the Development Bros have planned as a promise. More as "this is what we want to do" or "this is what we plan to do".

Or a threat. That works in more cases than I'd like.

[Fistandantilus]

Very dissapointing if SE is not going to honor this arrangement. It feels like Bst's were just told to keep on the lookout for TH gear in the future to soften the blow of the nerf. Now that enough time has passed it's OK to say "Oh sorry nevermind about that TH gear"

Understandably Bst's in dynamis with their cookie cutter gear that is junk off the AH or perle/pink w/e is a plague. However for anyone who was a Bst for years, and enjoyed playing the job outside of that one event this nerf was extremely unpleasant. If you wish to preserve the balance that has been created in dynamis postnerf just make the TH gear not fucntion in dynamis. Make it extremely hard to come by. Whatever. Just don't go back on this strictly because of a single event.

[deces]

Greetings BSTs,
but please understand that the these adjustments were necessary after reviewing the drop results.
There was no promise to create gear that would counter the reduction of treasure hunter on beastmaster pets Dipper Yuly and Faithful Falcorr.

Please understand we were Indian given TH, and now lied to about it, keep it classy SE.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

lol, SE staff can't reread posted threads, you did promise gear.... Recheck your history!

[Chrisstreb]

If you can't keep your promises, don't nerf stuff in the first place then!

[Chrisstreb]

That would be TH4
TH2 is the max you get as a THF sub, Augmented Sash is TH3

[deces]

I think this video sums it up...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPMmC0UAnj0

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Must say, I'm not liking the new guy in charge already.

[Coder]

This implies otherwise:



Edit: and if you'll argue that in that same post this was said:


MNK / WHM / BLM / RDM / PLD / BRD / RNG / SMN / BLU / PUP / SCH can all get TH 3 when using an augmented Tarutaru Sash from Abyssea - La Theine and subbing THF...

MNK / WHM / BLM / RDM / PLD / BRD / RNG / SMN / BLU / PUP / SCH all subbing thf fall under catagory 3: support job thf, while bst falls under catagory 4: OTHER. So why does it surprise you that all those jobs subbing thf would have more TH effect than say a bst/dnc?

[Aldersyde]

There was no promise to create gear that would counter the reduction of treasure hunter on beastmaster pets Dipper Yuly and Faithful Falcorr.

Wow, is this really your final answer on the subject? Talk about the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

You can say that technically SE didn't promise TH gear for pets, but doing so makes you look like you're indulging mealy-mouthed, slimeball politi-speak.

Camate definitely gave an impression that there were plans to add Pet: TH Gear to the game, otherwise why did he talk about the equipment bringing higher levels over a base TH1 in his post?

[Zagen]

MNK / WHM / BLM / RDM / PLD / BRD / RNG / SMN / BLU / PUP / SCH all subbing thf fall under catagory 3: support job thf, while bst falls under catagory 4: OTHER. So why does it surprise you that all those jobs subbing thf would have more TH effect than say a bst/dnc?
It doesn't surprise me, hell I wouldn't even care if they hadn't said BST would get TH 3 back from + items. I just pointed out that if the argument would be the list I quoted that BST would still fall in as 4th or tie for 3rd.

[Phogg]

Wow, so not only is SE incompetent, not only do all of their recent updates seem to reflect a development base completely out of touch with how their own game is actually played......now to top it all off, they are liars?

That's.......special. Wow.

I thought promoting the NA mog bonanza and not telling anyone until months later that it would never happen (thanks for the mule fleecing) was bad, but wow.

Edit: Seriously, consumer confidence at an all-time low. Getting really difficult to justify continuing to give this company money.

[Waldrich]

Greetings BSTs,
There was no promise to create gear that would counter the reduction of treasure hunter on beastmaster pets Dipper Yuly and Faithful Falcorr.


This implies otherwise:

As an adjustment to the balance of Treasure Hunter at level 99, the below pets will have their Treasure Hunter effect changed to Treasure Hunter I.

-Dipper Yuly
-Faithful Falcorr
※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger.

Here is the premise regarding the hierarchy of the Treasure Hunter effect (from strongest to weakest).

1. Thief
2. Ranger
3. Support job thief
4. Other jobs
※As ranger received the new “Bounty Shot” as a support ability, it is now slightly more beneficial than a support job Treasure Hunter when effectively used.


Edit: and if you'll argue that in that same post this was said:


MNK / WHM / BLM / RDM / PLD / BRD / RNG / SMN / BLU / PUP / SCH can all get TH 3 when using an augmented Tarutaru Sash from Abyssea - La Theine and subbing THF...

Come on Square Enix, Please try to make this "big game" "fun" again.

[Waldrich]

Greetings BSTs,

We received positive and negative feedback about the adjustment of Treasure Hunter for Dipper Yuly and Faithful Falcorr, and we would like to let you know that this was to keep the overall balance amongst other jobs and their Treasure Hunter effects. After thorough review, we are starting to see the results we intended to meet, so there are no plans to make any further Treasure Hunter adjustments to these pets.

We definitely understand the intense discussions these changes have brought about, especially regarding obtaining currency through Dynamis and Beastmaster's qualities, but please understand that the these adjustments were necessary after reviewing the drop results.



There was no promise to create gear that would counter the reduction of treasure hunter on beastmaster pets Dipper Yuly and Faithful Falcorr.

remove Goblyn, Quadav, Yagudo and Orc, Add more "proc'able" monsters. I'm sure people would stop arguing.

[Dawnn]

There was no promise to create gear that would counter the reduction of treasure hunter on beastmaster pets Dipper Yuly and Faithful Falcorr.

wow, just wow

[Sp1cyryan]

Must say, I'm not liking the new guy in charge already.

Must say, I can not see a reason since it is his first day on the job and he has nothing to do with this...

[Tagrineth]

To those bitching about the "promise":

Take off your idiot fanboy goggles. There WASN'T a promise.

The post says

"※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger."

It does not say

"These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but equipment will be release that has "Pet: Treasure Hunter +" which enhances the effect".

Fail.

[Chrisstreb]

To those bitching about the "promise":

Take off your idiot fanboy goggles. There WASN'T a promise.

The post says

"※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger."

It does not say

"These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but equipment will be release that has "Pet: Treasure Hunter +" which enhances the effect".

Fail.
If they weren't going to introduce Pet: TH gear, then why even bring up the possibility?

[Valkrist]

If they weren't going to introduce Pet: TH gear, then why even bring up the possibility?

This is the reason why game producers generally don't talk to the public about what they have planned. Too many take what's said as what -will- happen instead of what is being debated on. Nothing that's said is set in stone and it shouldn't be taken at face value since everything's in flux. Anything that someone of an importance says always ends up being overblown and taken out of proportion, which ultimately leads to speculation, rumors and misinformation.

Quoting Camate's earlier post only says that Camate was told to say so-and-so's current plans for the game. Until something's been put into the release notes, everything said by GMs and developers are just plans, not things already being produced.

Okipuit's post is not saying that there isn't a chance of treasure hunter gear for BST in the future. It's saying that they're making no promises, and that nothing said in the past can be taken as a guarantee that something's happening.

Don't be blaming the new producer already for this. This is a plan that was under effect ever since Tanaka's producer's days. Him being in office for not even a day doesn't make him automatically the root of all problem.

[Arcon]

I kind of have mixed feelings about this. While it's frightening to see just how far gone SE are it is offset by the fact that BST gets shafted, at least a little bit.

[Phogg]

To those bitching about the "promise":

Take off your idiot fanboy goggles. There WASN'T a promise.

The post says

"※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger."

It does not say

"These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but equipment will be release that has "Pet: Treasure Hunter +" which enhances the effect".

Fail.


There are no items that increase TH for pets which can be equipped by BST. Why would SE, directly below and within the context of information related to nerfing the level of TH specifically for BST pets, say anything about gear that could increase that level of TH for pets if they did not plan to add such an item?

That's not "idiot fanboy goggles", that's reasonable conjecture to assume they would release such an item. Otherwise, why bring it up at all?

Then again, this is the same PR team that hyped specifically the NA mog bonanza and then waited literally months before informing people the event would not happen. So it's not new. But that doesn't make it any less BS or frustrating.

Unless of course you can explain to me what might drive an SE rep to discuss a non-existent item within this context. Can you? Really the only conclusion is they continuously mislead their clients through incompetence. They knew this was an issue with BSTs and they added that information regarding TH+ items in an attempt to defray that contempt. And now, months and months later, we get told otherwise. Again.

The PR department for this company is an utter failure at every level.

[Aldersyde]

To those bitching about the "promise":

Take off your idiot fanboy goggles. There WASN'T a promise.

The post says

"※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger."

It does not say

"These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but equipment will be release that has "Pet: Treasure Hunter +" which enhances the effect".

Fail.

You could only come to a conclusion like this by totally disregarding context. You either totally fail at reading comprehension or you're just stupid. Pick one.

[Luvbunny]

Yup back to their usual crappy self already, empty promises, crappy contents, delusional developers who think they are always right. Seems like the taste of FF14 circa 2010 still lingers over there in the office. Don't hope too much for the new expansion, seems like the new vision is "lie, cheat, steal" from the players. The new 2 hours that are proposed are just further proof that after all these years, they still learn absolutely nothing. Unless they really really really want us to ditch this game and mover over to FF14.... Vote with your wallet, our opinions do not matter.

[Zagen]

This is the reason why game producers generally don't talk to the public about what they have planned. Too many take what's said as what -will- happen instead of what is being debated on. Nothing that's said is set in stone and it shouldn't be taken at face value since everything's in flux. Anything that someone of an importance says always ends up being overblown and taken out of proportion, which ultimately leads to speculation, rumors and misinformation.

Quoting Camate's earlier post only says that Camate was told to say so-and-so's current plans for the game. Until something's been put into the release notes, everything said by GMs and developers are just plans, not things already being produced.

Okipuit's post is not saying that there isn't a chance of treasure hunter gear for BST in the future. It's saying that they're making no promises, and that nothing said in the past can be taken as a guarantee that something's happening.

Don't be blaming the new producer already for this. This is a plan that was under effect ever since Tanaka's producer's days. Him being in office for not even a day doesn't make him automatically the root of all problem.

You're right they shouldn't have said anything. But instead of saying something like:

"We are sorry after further research we have decided giving pets more than TH 1 would be over powered in our design"

They chose to lie about it.

Neither situation would sit well with the BST player base but denying something that was implied by a previous statement creates a lack of trust.

[Zhronne]

There was more than 1 post from Camate concerning the introduction of Pet:TH gear, not just the one quoted on page 1 of this thread.
That's no promise of course, but at least a clarification like "After thorough internal tests we have decided not to create such gear" would be welcome, instead of keeping it silent hoping nobody would remember.
It wasn't a promise maybe, but it wasn't a generic remote possibility-mentioning either. Posts and claims, while not mandatory-binding statements, were very specific and not just some generic talking.

Bringing the pet TH effect to at least TH2 would have been a better compromise imho, be it with gear or anything else.
If you don't want to do it anymore then fine, but saying "Tch tch, no promise about it" is like trolling.
It's like admitting that you never had intention to add it, but used it as an excuse to make the pill sweeter for the BSTs
Not blaming Okuipuit or anything, he's just a messenger of course, but still I consider the last message he delivered in this thread pretty unacceptable.

Especially considering how other jobs going /THF can easily reach TH3, a DNC/THF for example.
Now of course an average DNC/THF isn't as "powerful" as an average BST inside Dynamis solo, but that's another issue.

[Arcon]

Especially considering how other jobs going /THF can easily reach TH3, a DNC/THF for example.
Now of course an average DNC/THF isn't as "powerful" as an average BST inside Dynamis solo, but that's another issue.

No it's not, it's precisely the same issue. It sounds like you're not aware that BST can also sub THF to get TH3. And they'd gimp themselves even less by doing that compared to other jobs. DNC has to signifantly gimp their killspeed if they want TH2 while BST gets TH1 for free and optionally TH2 from sub as well, for less cost than DNC.

[Juilan]

WHats next small pox?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Wars
Im not a fan boy of SE, actually I'm starting to loathe how they maintain games... and produce current ones (WHY DOES FINAL FANTASY 13-2 HAVE MORE THAN HALF ITS STUFF AS PAID DLC)
Ungimp the pet TH so we no longer have gimp thf friends playing with gimp bst in dynamis.

[Alistaire]

You could only come to a conclusion like this by totally disregarding context. You either totally fail at reading comprehension or you're just stupid. Pick one.

It can't be both?

In any case this is a pretty callous way for SE to approach the subject even if they're not considering " but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger" to be a promise (in the context it's very close to one).

If they'd decided Pet: TH+ gear wasn't going to happen as stated it should've been announced they decided that they weren't going to go ahead with it afterall; not a rude post by an official claiming ignorance of the original post.

[Zhronne]

No it's not, it's precisely the same issue. It sounds like you're not aware that BST can also sub THF to get TH3. And they'd gimp themselves even less by doing that compared to other jobs. DNC has to signifantly gimp their killspeed if they want TH2 while BST gets TH1 for free and optionally TH2 from sub as well, for less cost than DNC.
I think I'm missing something important from your post.
Yeah of course BST can go /THF and get TH3, but how is he going to proc JA mobs without /DNC and wielding a single weapon and a shield?
DNC/THF is not really a big difference compared to... to what? /NIN? Provides no additional damage than /THF.
You mean /WAR maybe? DA is nice but doesn't stack with Saberdance, +10 attack is nice, Berserk is cool 3mins every 5.

I think most jobs can't efficiently /THF in Dynamis (I'm talking solo of course, not duoing) because they wouldn't have means to reliably proc or survive.
DNC can definitely do that, so can PUP and other jobs as well, but not all can afford to do it.


What I was trying to say is that an averagely skilled/geared BST will have it much easier than a similarly skilled/equipped DNC/THF.
Especially if you play with low amount of attention.
I can't count the number of times I accidentally made unwanted trains of 3-4 mobs, even more probably, and survived no problem with my BST even with the old July/Falcorr (before they buffed them after the TH1 patch).
You just can allow yourself to play more relaxedly. Pulling TEs on BST is so easy.
The times I went on DNC I had much more issues, and I think many of those situations where I easily survived on BST playing with one hand would have gave me serious troubles on DNC, or even killed me.

That's what I was trying to say, I supposed this is part of the reason why SE tried to "balance" BST, because it was just too easy/efficient to solo dyna on BST compared to other jobs.
They kept the same level of difficulty (if anything they made it even easier by powering up pets) but in return they reduced our TH.
Not saying it was fair, that it didn't made me go apeshit or anything else, just saying that I believe these were the reasons behind their actions.

[Camiie]

No it's not, it's precisely the same issue. It sounds like you're not aware that BST can also sub THF to get TH3. And they'd gimp themselves even less by doing that compared to other jobs. DNC has to signifantly gimp their killspeed if they want TH2 while BST gets TH1 for free and optionally TH2 from sub as well, for less cost than DNC.

BST gets TH1 for free? Bzzzt. I'm sorry that's incorrect. BSTs have to pay gil for it each and every time.


I kind of have mixed feelings about this. While it's frightening to see just how far gone SE are it is offset by the fact that BST gets shafted, at least a little bit.

How sociopathic of you. What is it about a generally low-tier job getting "shafted" that makes you feel good?

[Camiie]

After thorough review, we are starting to see the results we intended to meet, so there are no plans to make any further Treasure Hunter adjustments to these pets.

Just what results were those exactly? Fewer BSTs in Dynamis? Less loot in circulation? Please elaborate.


We definitely understand the intense discussions these changes have brought about, especially regarding obtaining currency through Dynamis and Beastmaster's qualities, but please understand that the these adjustments were necessary after reviewing the drop results.

So is there really that much less currency in circulation now? Or did you guys just not approve of BST being a large source of this currency whereas it's OK for other jobs to rake it in like there's no tomorrow?


There was no promise to create gear that would counter the reduction of treasure hunter on beastmaster pets Dipper Yuly and Faithful Falcorr.

For what Camate said to be true, Pet: TH gear would have to be created as there currently is none in the game that we know of. I'm not that great at math, but something doesn't add up here. There's a very serious discrepancy between what he said and what you're saying. You see the problem?

[Dethard]

I think they have acted disgracefully by doing this. They say they looked at the discussions for and against the pets TH and decided that for balance pets did not need any more TH. But what the forget is that the pro pet TH camp were muted because of the statement that the TH could be made up with gear that would be released. If they had said from the start they they were not going to produce this gear then the pro pet TH argument would have been more vociferous.

The fact remains that when a BST calls a THF type pet they should expect to get a reasonable level of TH just as when a PUP summons a BLM type automaton they expect it to be able to nuke or with a WHM automaton they expect it to have reasonable curing ability. What people tend to forget is that it is not the BST that has the TH it is the pet and if the pet is a THF it should fall into a similar category (although slightly lower) than a THF player in the rankings they gave for TH.

It is similar to a situation where a player dual boxes with a mule character, if you level your mule as a THF and you dual box with that mule you would be a bit put out if the TH of your mule was nerfed because you were dual boxing.

SE really need to seriously look at where they want BST to be, up to level 75 it is played one way with BST having to charm mobs to be effective, then suddenly post 75 we have to change tactics and start using jug pets So in reality there is no point in levelling the job the normal way, you may as well burn the job to at least level 76 then start learning it. Majority of the skills up to then will not be used after that.

Have they mentioned yet if any of the mobs in the upcoming new expansion areas will be charmable? If not then they have totally sidelined BST and changed it from what was originally intended. If that is the case they need to totally rework the idea of BST and its abilities from scratch as a jug pet user and not a charmer and give the pets the abilities of the job they are otherwise the pets just become generic with little difference between them.

[Alpheus]

No it's not, it's precisely the same issue. It sounds like you're not aware that BST can also sub THF to get TH3.
I'm assuming this part was a typo given that BST cannot wear an augmented Taru sash w/ the TH augment since your next two sentences after this mentioned BST getting TH2. Not pointing out to knock you or anything because like I said was most likely a typo given what proceeded the above statement, but rather simply pointing it out for clarity since this issue on the whole tends to be contentious and people might glance and oversimplify what can and what can't be done.

In all fairness Zhornne also made the same mistake when mentioning TH3 followed by mentioning DNC/THF since they also can't wear the sash. Of course there is the likely possibility I am overlooking yet another piece of multi-job TH gear OR I am simply assuming (incorrectly) the discussion on the last page between the two of you involved the sash in which case my apologies to the both of you.

[Zhronne]

Not a typo, just a mistake on my side (I don't even own a taru sash myself, gave up tryin to get one). I just thought even jobs like SAM, NIN and DNC could equip it, of course I was wrong.
The overall logic of what I was tryin to say still stands though, if anything it's even stronger.

Wether or not SE failed I can't tell, but I'm pretty sure what they were trying to do is "balancing" the difficulty/efficiency with which jobs can solo Dynamis.
BST back then, had an extremely favourable ratio in this. It was stronger, easier to use even with average gear, high average amount of coins thanks to TH3 etc.
It's no surprise that a lot of people levelled BST only to solofarm dynamis and, indeed, those days dyna areas were packed full with BSTs soloing stuff. Dunno if the situations has changed now, haven't done dyna myself since february.

Even more than I said in my previous post, I think SE were trying to balance things by letting players choose between jobs with higher TH rate but lower efficiency at proccing/soloing (the jobs who can get TH3 with /THF and taru sash).
Other jobs who can proc and solo very easily but with reduced TH (DNC/THF) and then jobs who can solo even more easily, but have a furtherly reduced TH rate (BSTs).
Yes, I'm sure this was their plan, altough I'm not really sure it worked the way they meant it to be when you think about PUP/THF doing WS procs or THF/DNC doing JA procs... but yeah, I'm sure this is what they wanted to do.
Did they succeed? Did they fail? I'm leaning for the second, altough probably community members are overall happier than the whiners in this thread might suggest.


Allow me to elaborate.
Community wise, I'm afraid the only people who really got hurt and felt tricked by the "false promise" of Pet:TH item are those people who cared more about BST and had the job already levelled before the Dyna reform.
Most of the rest of the people were probably happy about the nerf and rejoiced, because they hated BST soloers "stealing their mobs".
We can divide them into two groups:
1) Bandwagons - those who had levelled BST only because attracted by the efficiency level of dyna solo farming. These people simply moved to the next Dyna bandwagon job.
2) Haters - people who were soloing, dualboxing or lowmanning dyna with other jobs and hated BST soloers because of the competition they implied. These people surely rejoiced about the nerf we BSTs received.

So yeah, if we look at this from a "majority" point of view, SE probably made the majority of FFXI players happy, making only a small minority of BST-lovers highly disappointed and frustrated.

[Luvbunny]

Total disgrace of a response from SE.... I guess they were pretty miffed that Beast with TH3 were able to farm decent amount of dyna currency, effectively killing their CHEAP WAY to add time sink into the game. I think this is why they refuse to revamped mythic weapons. Empyrean showed them how much fun, easy and enjoyable they can be, fast to acquire and takes not much of an effort. I have a feeling that the next expansion is a total bust, and it will take them 5 years to complete the content. Unless they plan to create the Abyssea Golden Years Version 2.0. - which in this case I am all for it.

[Jerbob]

In a way it's nice to see such a barefaced lie. It proves people's suspicions re: the way this game works to be, if not objectively true, then at least well founded. It's just a shame that Beastmasters had to suffer for that point to be made.

Pretty appalling stuff, really. Kudos to the guy posted the quote in question almost immediately.

[Elexia]

lol, SE staff can't reread posted threads, you did promise gear.... Recheck your history!

You idiots read anything as a promise. They never said:

"We promise to give you Pet TH gear."

The post stated: "By using..."

That doesn't mean "we promise to give you the gear." it means if and/or when they introduce it, it will enhance it just like using Pet: (attribute) enhances thing, it wasn't a promise..Unless it's an American thing to read everything as a promise, excuse me.

[Camiie]

The devs really need to decide where BST stands among the jobs of Vana'diel. Either make us a worthy DD so we can legitimately compete for a spot with WAR/SAM/MNK, etc. or let us be the ultimate solo master who relies on no one and give us our damned Treasure Hunter back. Quit balancing us and the other pet jobs into the oblivion of mediocrity.

Good BSTs, SMNs, and PUPs pour a ton of effort into their jobs, and great ones deserve a friggin' medal for everything they endure. But, the effort:reward ratio on pet jobs is absolutely abysmal compared to pretty much everything else. Other jobs can put in a ton of work too, but they usually have something to show for it at the end of the day. What do we get? Nerfs, more BALANCE!! than anyone else, and lolJOB from the community as a whole. Quit being afraid of us actually being good! Let us shine some! Lord knows you guys aren't scared to overpower certain other jobs that will remain nameless.

[Elexia]

Other jobs can put in a ton of work too, but they usually have something to show for it

Just like good BST/PUP/SMNs are well known and actually looked up to for all the hardwork and effort they put into being good, no other job gets "more rewards for the same amount of work and effort" now you're just making BS up, everyone is rewarded the same in the game, hell you can solo things easily as pet jobs whereas a lot of jobs can't even dream to solo without a ton of medicines/brew (in abyssea.)

Did you forget about that, Ms. Summoner?


What do we get?

No pet job has been nerfed in a drastic way compared to DRGs getting nerfed to the point of not being wanted until SE "rectified it" later on, remember the TP floor change? Yeah I still seen SMNs and BSTs in parties end-game but where were the DRGs? Oh that's right "you're worthless level a real job."


and lolJOB from the community as a whole

Never seen "lolsmn/lolbst" in the fashion I've seen "loldrg" and I'm sure you've played long enough to realize this. I've seen "lolpup" because people didn't know how to play it or push it into prime and the main "lol" was because they weren't H2H masters like MNK, which people for some reason expected them to be on par with MNK's DPS.


Lord knows you guys aren't scared to overpower certain other jobs that will remain nameless.

Job. Not jobs, Job. The only job that ever gets overpowered is Samurai. Go play Dark Knight some time, then go cry about your job being "balanced out".

[Arcon]

I think I'm missing something important from your post.
Yeah of course BST can go /THF and get TH3, but how is he going to proc JA mobs without /DNC and wielding a single weapon and a shield?

No, you're right, I messed up. I wasn't talking about Dynamis, even though you mentioned it specifically. But if it's about Dyna, BST is with no shadow of a doubt the last job that has a right to complain.


DNC/THF is not really a big difference compared to... to what? /NIN? Provides no additional damage than /THF.
You mean /WAR maybe? DA is nice but doesn't stack with Saberdance, +10 attack is nice, Berserk is cool 3mins every 5.

Berserk is more than cool, it's extraordinary. Why would any job sub /NIN for anything? Abyssea procs? To most people that sub died with the last level cap increase.


BST gets TH1 for free? Bzzzt. I'm sorry that's incorrect. BSTs have to pay gil for it each and every time.

There's several kinds of costs. Gil wasn't the one I was referring to.


How sociopathic of you. What is it about a generally low-tier job getting "shafted" that makes you feel good?

Low-tier? How so? Because it doesn't get invited to endgame events? That's kind of a case in point of why I hate most BST players. They think they're entitled to everything but think very little of what they have. BST is a money-making machine on this game, unlike any other single job. For very little effort they get money stuffed up their butts. In addition to that they're great soloers and can participate in pet strategies to take down hard mobs with very little risk. Many people would find that imbalanced. Just because BST isn't gladly seen in endgame setups it doesn't make the job low-tier at all.

Not that I need a reason to hate people, but since you asked for one: their mentality upsets me. Both from the old days, when they were competing with EXP parties for mobs as well as now when they think they own anything and everything they lay their eyes on. Like Dynamis, where they think it's perfectly fine to hoard mobs while you wander around waiting for repops and if you do dare to take one they think they're allowed to get upset. Just like when they take hours to kill Abyssea NMs just to show they can solo them and afterwards think that shows they have skill (or something similarly delusional), while everyone else just waits for them to get out of their way. Most BST I've met are selfish and quite often arrogant. That's why I hate them.


I'm assuming this part was a typo given that BST cannot wear an augmented Taru sash w/ the TH augment since your next two sentences after this mentioned BST getting TH2. Not pointing out to knock you or anything because like I said was most likely a typo given what proceeded the above statement, but rather simply pointing it out for clarity since this issue on the whole tends to be contentious and people might glance and oversimplify what can and what can't be done.

You're quite correct, I did mean TH2. Thanks for the correction.


But, the effort:reward ratio on pet jobs is absolutely abysmal compared to pretty much everything else.

Again, if you're talking about Dynamis you're completely out of your mind with this statement. Other pet jobs may complain, but BST most definitely can not.

[larrymc]

Greetings BSTs,

We received positive and negative feedback about the adjustment of Treasure Hunter for Dipper Yuly and Faithful Falcorr, and we would like to let you know that this was to keep the overall balance amongst other jobs and their Treasure Hunter effects. After thorough review, we are starting to see the results we intended to meet, so there are no plans to make any further Treasure Hunter adjustments to these pets.

We definitely understand the intense discussions these changes have brought about, especially regarding obtaining currency through Dynamis and Beastmaster's qualities, but please understand that the these adjustments were necessary after reviewing the drop results.



There was no promise to create gear that would counter the reduction of treasure hunter on beastmaster pets Dipper Yuly and Faithful Falcorr.

This community rep did not do a good job at conveying this information. The rep knows about this post:



As an adjustment to the balance of Treasure Hunter at level 99, the below pets will have their Treasure Hunter effect changed to Treasure Hunter I.

-Dipper Yuly
-Faithful Falcorr
※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger.


So to simply give a terse statement that their was no promise - without addressing the prior post in some way is disingenuous.

Clearly, this post from Camate was specifically talking about Dipper & Falcor, and the introduction of equipment to boost their TH.

What makes me a bit tweaked is that the post from Okipuit is not honest. What he should have said (assuming this is the case) is that after evaluating the drop data, the development team has decided not to introduce new items to boost pet TH, as they feel its is strong enough at current levels. If that was the last sentence in his post, people would have complained yes of course, but at least there would not have been the feeling of political double speak, where words are carefully parsed for select meanings.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Exactly, had he have said:


These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but we are currently looking into adding equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” so that the effect will become stronger.

Then it wasn't a promise, as it was posted however was as good as a promise. However, it seems it was simply used so they could argue it's been positive from the BST pro and con camps for the nerf due to the pro crowd believing gear would be added so not kicking up such a fuss.

What I'll imagine will come will be something to cover them like: Mistranslation, the post actually said "We've decided not to add it"

But this will be just a cover for the blatant lie just posted.

[Zagen]

You idiots read anything as a promise. They never said:

"We promise to give you Pet TH gear."

The post stated: "By using..."

I hope English isn't your first language... If you read what was quoted about Pet: TH+ gear you would read it as a promise. If this:

※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger.

Said this:

※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but we might look into using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger.

Or something similar it wouldn't have been taken as a promise. Note the use of "might" means it isn't intended to be read as a fact/promise and the player base would be foolish to do so.

In the English language the word promise doesn't have to be used for it to be something that can be taken as a promise, just FYI.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I hope English isn't your first language... If you read what was quoted about Pet: TH+ gear you would read it as a promise. If this:

※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger.

Said this:

※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but we might look into using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger.

Or something similar it wouldn't have been taken as a promise. Note the use of "might" means it isn't intended to be read as a fact/promise and the player base would be foolish to do so.

In the English language the word promise doesn't have to be used for it to be something that can be taken as a promise, just FYI.

Quoted for truth, I could have just liked it, but it doesn't do enough justice to this post.

[Phogg]

You idiots read anything as a promise. They never said:

"We promise to give you Pet TH gear."

The post stated: "By using..."

That doesn't mean "we promise to give you the gear." it means if and/or when they introduce it, it will enhance it just like using Pet: (attribute) enhances thing, it wasn't a promise..Unless it's an American thing to read everything as a promise, excuse me.

Once again, why bring it up at all then? There is no point to bring it up at all within the context of that post other than to lead (or more aptly mislead) their clients into thinking this gear would be introduced.

@Arcon -Way to paint everyone with a broad stroke, I could say the same things about the arrogance of PLDs, but that doesn't make it true or relevant. I probably don't need to anyway, because your post does it for me.

BTW, my friend pointed out seeing a PLD holding 10 mobs in Dynamis using Aeolian Edge to proc. I submit we should start a campaign to nerf PLD, because clearly they are overpowered and ruining dynamis for everyone else.

[Eric]

Once again, why bring it up at all then? There is no point to bring it up at all within the context of that post other than to lead (or more aptly mislead) their clients into thinking this gear would be introduced.

@Arcon -Way to paint everyone with a broad stroke, I could say the same things about the arrogance of PLDs, but that doesn't make it true or relevant. I probably don't need to anyway, because your post does it for me.

BTW, my friend pointed out seeing a PLD holding 10 mobs in Dynamis using Aeolian Edge to proc. I submit we should start a campaign to nerf PLD, because clearly they are overpowered and ruining dynamis for everyone else.

That's a terrible example considering that it's the story of 1 well-geared PLD vs a ton of perle bandwagon BSTs. (the pld doesn't get TH by the way).

I don't care if all BST players aren't as retarded as the ones I run into, but I've met so many assholes that play the job, that they've just ruined the job for me and now I'm just automatically happy anytime anything bad is announced for BST.

[Elexia]

I hope English isn't your first language...

It isn't, it's my first "universal" language.


In the English language the word promise doesn't have to be used for it to be something that can be taken as a promise, just FYI.

This is why it didn't make sense, because I didn't see the word "promise" used at all.

[Zagen]

That's a terrible example considering that it's the story of 1 well-geared PLD vs a ton of perle bandwagon BSTs. (the pld doesn't get TH by the way).
Just pointing out they would or rather should be on PLD/THF if they're edge proc farming. It's still a combo that takes time to build up and is inferior to BST/DNC from what I've read (could be wrong though) so ya still a terrible example.

[Zagen]

This is why it didn't make sense, because I didn't see the word "promise" used at all.

The way it is worded is considered a statement. Statements are taken as factual or as a promise.
For example:

I will go in to work tomorrow.

Is read the exact same as:

I promise to go to work tomorrow.

[Phogg]

That's a terrible example considering that it's the story of 1 well-geared PLD vs a ton of perle bandwagon BSTs. (the pld doesn't get TH by the way).

I don't care if all BST players aren't as retarded as the ones I run into, but I've met so many assholes that play the job, that they've just ruined the job for me and now I'm just automatically happy anytime anything bad is announced for BST.

Because that's a mature attitude.

Also, how do you know how they were geared? Maybe they were a perle wearing PLD? The main point remains, anyone can be a prick in this game, and their job has nothing to do with that.

Just ask any career BST who had their exp camps invaded by normy parties back in the day (despite setting their search to indicate their camp location, something us BSTs used to do to help not waste the time of another BST that might travel to that camp and find it occupied, clearly we are all pricks), you think those people cared about the lowly BST? No, because there were so few they didn't need to care. They would not do that to another party, at least not often, but it happened regularly to BSTs.

I'm a very well geared BST, I even waste inventory on my charm set hoping one day I might be able to play my job again in some semblance of its original style. I've been playing the job for about 8+ years now. We finally have ONE THING we can say we are good at, and everyone wants to take that ONE THING away because, ironically, NON-BSTs are exploiting it.....usually the same people who get some sort of twisted joy out of bashing BSTs, which is not a new thing, its been happening for the entirety of the game's existence.

Which is why I find this all both absurd and amusing at the same time. Before the dynamis change, we were gimps that should be overlooked in any end game content. Now, just because of one thing, we are suddenly overpowered and need to be nerfed, when in reality the job has not changed at all, dynamis changed. My BST is stuck at 96 because I just use it for fun anymore and to play around with my Octave club. We're so incredibly overpowered that I almost never use my favorite job in favor of my other, more useful options....

Find something more rational to be mad about. Despite my top notch gear and love of the job, I actually farm dynamis as THF, and I get by just fine regardless of how many BSTs are around. Not sure what everyone else's problem is.

[Phogg]

Just pointing out they would or rather should be on PLD/THF if they're edge proc farming. It's still a combo that takes time to build up and is inferior to BST/DNC from what I've read (could be wrong though) so ya still a terrible example.

How is it a terrible example? There is competition for mobs in dynamis, and people mostly get mad because BSTs can hold multiple mobs. Well, so can PLD. What exactly is the difference? Their kill speed doesn't make any difference, what people get upset about is the holding of mobs, hence the example.

[Phogg]

So that I don't simply appear to be defending BST without offering a potential solution outside of nerfing BST, the solution is clear.....simply reduce the proc rate of JA's in dynamis, or increase the proc rate of magic and WSs. This would allow other jobs to be more useful then the standard of whateverjob/dnc. Problem solved.

[Zhronne]

Berserk is more than cool, it's extraordinary. Why would any job sub /NIN for anything? Abyssea procs? To most people that sub died with the last level cap increase.
It certainly is awesome, and possibly the only valid option for a DNC who wants to be a DD. I still sub /NIN if I'm soloing something that requires shadows.
And anyway, I was still talking from a solo-dynamis perspective.
I usually go /THF or /00 with my DNC in Dyna, dunno why you'd want to go /WAR if you're soloing but that's just me hey, and it's no secret I'm a particularly noob DNC :D

[Zagen]

How is it a terrible example? There is competition for mobs in dynamis, and people mostly get mad because BSTs can hold multiple mobs. Well, so can PLD. What exactly is the difference? Their kill speed doesn't make any difference, what people get upset about is the holding of mobs, hence the example.

There isn't competition for mobs during WS times for a given family. Because it takes a PLD with Ochain to do it solo. BST just needs some axes Falcorr or Yuly Jugs and some Pet Food, all of which are on the AH where Ochain is not. That's why it's a terrible example.

[Valkrist]

@Arcon -Way to paint everyone with a broad stroke, I could say the same things about the arrogance of PLDs, but that doesn't make it true or relevant. I probably don't need to anyway, because your post does it for me.

BTW, my friend pointed out seeing a PLD holding 10 mobs in Dynamis using Aeolian Edge to proc. I submit we should start a campaign to nerf PLD, because clearly they are overpowered and ruining dynamis for everyone else.

What Arcon says is 100% true regardless.

BST is an extremely powerful job that is overlooked for many reasons. First and foremost it goes back to the 75 cap days where BST was shunned because of common thought that their pet -still- counted as a party member and brought down party exp. Since then, people avoided BST like the plague.

Even today with level 99 BSTs, people don't know what they're actually capable of in a party situation since two scenarios have been clearly made over the years: BST soloers that don't give a shit about other players, and your normal players that never seen a BST party with anyone. BST is a VERY capable party job whose pet can easily dish out more damage than your typical player nowadays. Also the BST themselves have access to very good DD gear, causing them to actually be able to do decent damage on their own. This is further augmented that then their hate can be transfered to the pet. Jugs every five minutes, or recharming every 15 seconds, for disposable HP and hate. BST is clearly a very capable job and any serious BST will tell you that they're nothing to laugh at.

Only recently BST was given TH3 that was comparable to an ungeared level 75 THF and BST players are now complaining that they've fallen from grace now. BST is still one of only jobs in the game that naturally gets TH1, this gives the job a significant "one-up" compared to the other classes which normally has to sacrifice their subclass from a design standpoint. I don't know RNG enough to know how exactly Bounty Shot works, so I won't comment on that, but BLU is the only other job that can naturally get TH1 as well.

People will complain that the augmented Tarutaru Sash makes half of the jobs in the game have equal TH as BST and BLU. That's very true, but this doesn't make any of these jobs better at THing than BST. Right now BST is now on equal grounds with MNK, WHM, BLM, RDM, PLD, BRD, RNG, SMN, PUP, and SCH. Though techically BLU can now reach TH2 with TTS, but not many people complain that they have an unfair advantage.

Just like any online game, there're going to be changes to make things more balanced. It's just that the FFXI community is too fixated on the word "balance" and focused their hatred on Tanaka. {Insert Tanaka/Absolute Virtue Jokes Here} Job classes, gear, monsters, prices, spells, and anything else you can think of will always change over time just because the game is constantly being reassessed because of how players are handling the game. A few months back, it was obvious that BST was dominating the Dynamis scene and everyone saw the TH nerf coming.

This is my personal opinion that a lot of non-BSTs share. The current BST player base is looked as a selfish mob that doesn't care about screwing over other players. It was commonplace to see BSTs soloing two-plus monsters at any given time in Dynamis. It's common to see BSTs kill stealing from other players if anyone else tries mimicing them by having more than one monster on them. Also common, BSTs would become very vocal if you tried kill stealing from them. The stereotype is there not because people just felt like saying it. It's there because a good portion of the population is that way that the stereotype can be made and that so many people can nod in agreement that it's that way.

You can argue that ochain PLDs can "cleave" Dynamis mobs and monopolize just as much, if not more, than BSTs. This is very true and it is a less done Dynamis currency farming method. The thing is that PLDs are doing nothing different that a BST isn't doing. They're holding multiple monsters at once, but only one of them is actually claimed. Both the PLDs and BSTs aren't doing anything that is breaking any game rules. They're just doing things that the player base feels that are breaking an unspoken courtesy rulebook. Anyone could still go up to the PLD, or BST, and steal back any non-red-claimed monster. No one is entitled to more than one monster, or to even claim that only their job can do so-and-so like having TH3.

It has already been complained in the past that ochain is "too powerful" and it should be nerfed. In the Dynamis scene, "cleaving" has been nerfed once already against proccing, but it hasn't seriously done anything against these PLDs is true. Give it time and maybe another proccing change will happen.


Truth be told... This is the same way a lot of BSTs were back at 75 days. It's just that today BSTs are more capable and had the biggest farming niche available. Today you just have a lot of vocal BSTs because suddenly BST was given some love. "Some love" is such an understatement at that.

BSTs today have gotten so much, but it's never enough. The grass is always greener.... I've been a BST ever since the 75 days when they were joked about. I've also leveled almost every job this game has to offer since the 75 days. When I'm comparing jobs, BST before was already a very solid job. Today it's really a monster. No pun intended. Sure I'm sad that BST has lost 2 levels of TH, but I think the job is still fine the way it is today.

[Phogg]

There isn't competition for mobs during WS times for a given family. Because it takes a PLD with Ochain to do it solo. BST just needs some axes Falcorr or Yuly Jugs and some Pet Food, all of which are on the AH where Ochain is not. That's why it's a terrible example.

Again, the example is related to people bashing BST and calling for nerfs because they hold mobs, not the efficacy of farming as PLD. It's a systemic issue within dynamis+procs, not a BST job issue.

Given that there is less competition during the WS and magic proc times doesn't it make more sense to make those other camp times more viable by increasing the proc rate for WSs and magic? Suddenly RDM/anything becomes more viable, DD/nin becomes more viable, SMN/rdm becomes more viable, etc. Everyone loves to claim BST is weak compared to literally every other DD job in nearly every other facet of the game, so if that is true, then all those other jobs should be capable of outpacing a BST in dynamis, its just that their ability to do so is limited by the proc system, not the other BSTs.

[Camate]

Greetings,

Please understand that the original message that I posted was not intended as a guarantee that we will be adding this kind of gear in the future. This was meant to only be an example of how the pet’s Treasure Hunter could be enhanced to a higher level. While this does not rule out any possibility of adding equipment like this in the future, it was never a promise that it would be implemented.

[Hashmalum]

You idiots read anything as a promise. They never said:

"We promise to give you Pet TH gear."

The post stated: "By using..."

That doesn't mean "we promise to give you the gear." it means if and/or when they introduce it, it will enhance it just like using Pet: (attribute) enhances thing, it wasn't a promise..Unless it's an American thing to read everything as a promise, excuse me.In context, it was a promise. And the slap at Americans was completely unnecessary, and as an American, I am offended by your post. I will, however, explain to you why people are so outraged by what's happened since you seem to be unable to get it.

We Americans have in our history a notorious con artist and and circus owner named P. T. Barnum. At one traveling circus he ran, he put an egret (a type of bird) on display; there was a sign directing visitors to this attraction, which read "This way to the egret". At the exit to the room with the egret, there was a very similar sign reading "This way to the egress". Now, the word "egress" sounds like it could mean "female egret" in the same way that we have words such as "actress" for a female actor. It doesn't. It's actually an obscure word for "exit". When people followed this sign, expecting to see another exotic bird, they would leave the circus grounds--only to find themselves charged full price if they wanted to get back in. I'm sure that Barnum blamed the victims of this trick for being "stupid" much like how you are doing now.

Barnum's "egress" con is a prime example of how you can speak the literal truth and still be a damn dirty liar. Human languages are inherently imprecise and incomplete and a single sentence may potentially convey an unlimited range of possible meanings. Some of these are the exact opposite of the sentence's literal meaning. It's the context that makes all the difference. When a speaker creates an utterance intended to create in the minds of the listener an impression at variance with what the speaker believes to be true, deception has been perpetrated. Semantic game-playing makes no moral difference; if you say something that you know has been misinterpreted by the listener in a way favorable to you, it is up to you to correct it or at least disavow the mistaken interpretation. If you do not, then you have lied.

Now, the FFXI development team has the resources of a multibillion dollar international corporation behind them; there are numerous people working for Square-Enix who are supposed to be devoted to making sure these kind of "misunderstandings" don't take place. And in fact, on other issues we have had official statements from Camate and crew saying, "No, you misunderstand, what we meant was _____." What can we conclude from this? Either the reps were lying and the dev team was silent about TH pet gear (quite unlikely! Don't be mad, guys, just mentioning this for logical completeness), the dev team was lying at the time, the dev team is lying now, or the dev team just plain forgot about the original statement and we deserve an apology.

As for the issue of whether BST pets should have TH or not, well, all I have to say about it is this: the dev team has made it very clear that to them, boosting item drops rather than (say) doing damage is a very big part of what THF is about. If they didn't want to give us a pet that boosted item drops, then they should not have made those pets THF job to begin with.

[Camiie]

Just like good BST/PUP/SMNs are well known and actually looked up to for all the hardwork and effort they put into being good, no other job gets "more rewards for the same amount of work and effort" now you're just making BS up, everyone is rewarded the same in the game, hell you can solo things easily as pet jobs whereas a lot of jobs can't even dream to solo without a ton of medicines/brew (in abyssea.)

Did you forget about that, Ms. Summoner?

The rewards I was talking about were not gear and gil. They were access and acceptance. You can work your ass off on all of these jobs and still not be considered good enough to stand in the doorway of endgame. I could say that any ally or LS leader that would turn his nose up at a well geared and played BST/SMN/PUP is an uneducated idiot, but sadly they aren't 100% wrong in turning us down the way they do. I wish they were. I wish we did rule the parse or have irreplaceable buffs/abilities, but the vast majority of the time we simply don't.



No pet job has been nerfed in a drastic way compared to DRGs getting nerfed to the point of not being wanted until SE "rectified it" later on, remember the TP floor change? Yeah I still seen SMNs and BSTs in parties end-game but where were the DRGs? Oh that's right "you're worthless level a real job."

Really? I saw way more DRGs than BST and SMN. I guess it depends on what you mean by "parties end-game." HNM? I sure as heck didn't see BST or SMN fighting wyrms, behemoths, or turtles. Dynamis? It seemed like bringing a pet job was a cardinal sin. Sky? Not unless you were in a pet LS. Sea? Same as sky except maybe for Jailer of Faith. Limbus? Not a chance. Salvage? The cell system was not friendly to BST and especially SMN. Einherjar? SMN maybe after Alex was released. XP parties? It wasn't BST or SMN getting those spots unless it was a SMN burn. YMMV, but what I saw isn't what you saw.



Never seen "lolsmn/lolbst" in the fashion I've seen "loldrg" and I'm sure you've played long enough to realize this. I've seen "lolpup" because people didn't know how to play it or push it into prime and the main "lol" was because they weren't H2H masters like MNK, which people for some reason expected them to be on par with MNK's DPS.

I've seen all of the above and still do.


Job. Not jobs, Job. The only job that ever gets overpowered is Samurai.

Hmm. It's subjective. Some would say WAR and MNK are overpowered. Some would say WHM is overpowered or perhaps other healers are underpowered compared to it.


Go play Dark Knight some time, then go cry about your job being "balanced out".

What makes you think I don't sympathize with DRK's situation? Just because I complain about my job doesn't mean I don't feel for yours and want you to have fun and see improvements.

[Phogg]

This is my personal opinion that a lot of non-BSTs share. The current BST player base is looked as a selfish mob that doesn't care about screwing over other players. It was commonplace to see BSTs soloing two-plus monsters at any given time in Dynamis. It's common to see BSTs kill stealing from other players if anyone else tries mimicing them by having more than one monster on them. Also common, BSTs would become very vocal if you tried kill stealing from them. The stereotype is there not because people just felt like saying it. It's there because a good portion of the population is that way that the stereotype can be made and that so many people can nod in agreement that it's that way.


This part of your post is where I take issue. Everything by nature in dynamis is competitive. THFs will flee to a mob to take the one you just pulled your weapon out to attack and and bully it in front of your face. MNKs will come out of nowhere to chi blast the same. To claim only BSTs act competitively is disingenuous at best. There is no difference, everyone competes for the mobs. People just point at BST because they see them most frequently in dynamis. That is why people hold that stereotype, not because its valid, but because it is what they are most frequently exposed to.

The irony is, what they truly want, is for THEIR job to be more powerful than a BST in dynamis. Right? That's the end game with all the calls to nerf BST, is it not? So who really is being selfish here? Probably no one, they are just extending that competition here in an attempt to make it easier for them in the game.

If suddenly NIN was the king of Dynamis, and all you saw were Ninja's everywhere competing for mobs against you, suddenly, all NINs would be considered selfish and everyone would call for them to be nerfed. The stereotype is a logical fallacy based on a frequency of encounters, and the biggest laugh about the entire situation is those "non-bsts" thinking this way completely disregard that those they are calling bandwagon BSTs and calling for nerfs, are considered that because they leveled the job ONLY to farm dynamis. Meaning, they are not BSTs at all, so those you call selfish are actually NINs, or PLDs, or MNKs, or whatever their real job is. They leveled BST for dynamis due to their infatuation with a min/max mentality. The same mentality that unfairly excluded BSTs from group events over the years. But now BSTs are the ones who are selfish....

I'm not arguing the stereotype does not exist, because it clearly does. But it's based on a false premise. The problem is not with the job, its with the system.

Edit: As you can see below, my account seems accurate.

[Eric]

Because that's a mature attitude.

As it stands, I don't have anything to gain when BST gets buffed, because I never have one in my party/alliance. However, I have lots to gain when they're nerfed because it means that I'll be running into less inconsiderate BSTs everywhere I go.

Yes, it might not be a mature attitude, but until people give me a reason to reconsider, I don't care, because unlike almost every other job in this game, I actually do stand to lose something when they're buffed, because it means more idiots will join the bandwagon and ruin my fun, along with the job's already-deteriorating reputation.

[Phogg]

Greetings,

Please understand that the original message that I posted was not intended as a guarantee that we will be adding this kind of gear in the future. This was meant to only be an example of how the pet’s Treasure Hunter could be enhanced to a higher level. While this does not rule out any possibility of adding equipment like this in the future, it was never a promise that it would be implemented.

No offense, but its pretty silly to discuss how the pet's treasure hunter could be enhanced to a higher level if the pet's treasure hunter cannot be enhanced to a higher level.

[Kalilla]

Camate,

Players are upset because for 6 months we were under the impression that SE was going to provide gear to BST with the stat "Pet: Treasure Hunter +#". We should of been informed back in February that we were under the wrong impression, and that it was only a possibility. That is why players are upset.

---

Also, that is incredibly rude telling him that he needs to attend English and Language 101. He made a mistake, that's it. Everyone is entitled to make one now and then.

[Valkrist]

Really? I saw way more DRGs than BST and SMN. I guess it depends on what you mean by "parties end-game." HNM? I sure as heck didn't see BST or SMN fighting wyrms, behemoths, or turtles. Dynamis? It seemed like bringing a pet job was a cardinal sin.


Hmm. It's subjective. Some would say WAR and MNK are overpowered. Some would say WHM is overpowered or perhaps other healers are underpowered compared to it.



What makes you think I don't sympathize with DRK's situation? Just because I complain about my job doesn't mean I don't feel for yours and want you to have fun and see improvements.

Are you serious about SMNs not being brought to HNMs? SMNs were the only DDs we had against Tiamat, Cerberus, Khimera, etc. We weren't a pet only HNMLS at all. We just used jobs that best fit the fight. It was commonplace for our LS to kill Fafnir/Nidhogg within literally 2 minutes at 75 cap. Using SMNs for certain HNM fights was by far the best choice when it came to doing a huge chunk of hateless damage when taking damage and feeding it TP were too dangerous to have.

We did let BSTs come to things like... Ouryu fights, but it was because the fights were stupidly easy that we could laugh at a crab "beating" on him. PUPs were in the same boat. They were never accepted since their utility on the HNM scene wasn't streamlined and optimal enough to be considered useful.

We always looked at DRGs as a high damage job that does very high damage and can manage their own hate enough to not get in the way. WARs were more preferred, but DRGs were accepted all the same because they're not laughable. This is of course back in the level 75 HNM days where job powerlevels weren't skewed yet.

DRK right now honestly doesn't need anything. Yes their magic is laughable, but that's not the highlight of the job funny enough. A Ragnarok/Retribution DRK is easily on par, or stronger than your Ukonvasara WAR. An Apocalypse DRK is still extremely powerful DD that can't be laughed at.

[Camiie]

Are you serious about SMNs not being brought to HNMs? SMNs were the only DDs we had against Tiamat, Cerberus, Khimera, etc. We weren't a pet only HNMLS at all. We just used jobs that best fit the fight. It was commonplace for our LS to kill Fafnir/Nidhogg within literally 2 minutes at 75 cap. Using SMNs for certain HNM fights was by far the best choice when it came to doing a huge chunk of hateless damage when taking damage and feeding it TP were too dangerous to have.

I did forget those tbh. Hey, I can't remember everything.


We did let BSTs come to things like... Ouryu fights, but it was because the fights were stupidly easy that we could laugh at a crab "beating" on him. PUPs were in the same boat. They were never accepted since their utility on the HNM scene wasn't streamlined and optimal enough to be considered useful.

Ouryu? I never saw a BST on him. I have done SMN for extra refresh, but Diabolos like to fly away and fight worms 50 yalms away. Never seen a PUP on him either.


We always looked at DRGs as a high damage job that does very high damage and can manage their own hate enough to not get in the way. WARs were more preferred, but DRGs were accepted all the same because they're not laughable. This is of course back in the level 75 HNM days where job powerlevels weren't skewed yet.

This is my experience as well.


DRK right now honestly doesn't need anything. Yes their magic is laughable, but that's not the highlight of the job funny enough. A Ragnarok/Retribution DRK is easily on par, or stronger than your Ukonvasara WAR. An Apocalypse DRK is still extremely powerful DD that can't be laughed at.

You'll have to discuss this with Elexia.

[Valkrist]

This part of your post is where I take issue. Everything by nature in dynamis is competitive. THFs will flee to a mob to take the one you just pulled your weapon out to attack and and bully it in front of your face. MNKs will come out of nowhere to chi blast the same. To claim only BSTs act competitively is disingenuous at best. There is no difference, everyone competes for the mobs. People just point at BST because they see them most frequently in dynamis. That is why people hold that stereotype, not because its valid, but because it is what they are most frequently exposed to.

The irony is, what they truly want, is for THEIR job to be more powerful than a BST in dynamis. Right? That's the end game with all the calls to nerf BST, is it not? So who really is being selfish here? Probably no one, they are just extending that competition here in an attempt to make it easier for them in the game.

If suddenly NIN was the king of Dynamis, and all you saw were Ninja's everywhere competing for mobs against you, suddenly, all NINs would be considered selfish and everyone would call for them to be nerfed. The stereotype is a logical fallacy based on a frequency of encounters, and the biggest laugh about the entire situation is those "non-bsts" thinking this way completely disregard that those they are calling bandwagon BSTs and calling for nerfs, are considered that because they leveled the job ONLY to farm dynamis. Meaning, they are not BSTs at all, so those you call selfish are actually NINs, or PLDs, or MNKs, or whatever their real job is. They leveled BST for dynamis due to their infatuation with a min/max mentality. The same mentality that unfairly excluded BSTs from group events over the years. But now BSTs are the ones who are selfish....


You're absolutely right that BST has a lack of claiming ability compared to THF and BST in Dynamis if you're only looking at a subjobless BST. Every BST in Dynamis will be /DNC and have access to Animated Flourish for a ranged claim. BST/DNC are perfectly capable of out claiming anyone else. Only the BSTs that are foolish enough to face pull are the ones that should be losing in terms of claiming ability.

The reason why BSTs are looked poorly upon in Dynamis is more than just them claiming things. It's that they're claiming multiple monsters at the same time. That 2:1 ratio is what causes BSTs to have the upper hand and the one of the reasons why they're looked so poorly upon. It's when the BSTs suddenly go up to 5:1 or higher that BSTs are looked as totally greedy. The same goes for the cleaving PLDs that were mentioned earlier as well.

You're right that people want their jobs to be "number 1". This is the real reason why BST's TH was dropped. The influx of BSTs in Dynamis showed how unbalanced the system was. Whenever you see an influx of X thing to do Y thing, something's broken. BSTs in this situation really are in the wrong in thinking that they're entitled to being better TH than every job in the game aside from THF and to think that they're entitled to have the monopoly to farming in Dynamis.


I really do not think anything that SE has done or said has been in the wrong regarding this TH "promise". Nothing was promised ever. Players were led on, yes. But promised no. The players complaining should just accept that not everything said is what's going to happen. Someone earlier had said that language is fallible. It's something that's interpreted by the individual that can lead to an infinite amount to meanings. The players are taking one of those possible meanings and demanding that it happens. It's really the players that are being unreasonable here.

We don't see people complaining or boycotting cars that are fresh of the lot. Every year concept cars are made and are "promising" the future of cars. Once the actual car comes into production, not even half of the things in the concept car are even in the finished product. People accept that some goals are lofty and sometimes just aren't going to be practical.

[Zagen]

We don't see people complaining or boycotting cars that are fresh of the lot. Every year concept cars are made and are "promising" the future of cars. Once the actual car comes into production, not even half of the things in the concept car are even in the finished product. People accept that some goals are lofty and sometimes just aren't going to be practical.
That would be because they legally have to have a disclaimer stating not all products on a concept car will make it to production.

[Valkrist]

That would be because they legally have to have a disclaimer stating not all products on a concept car will make it to production.

Soon enough the forum mods, and company, will always have to have a subnote saying the same thing at the rate of things.

Right now I don't think the players of FFXI really realize how lucky they are to actually give feedback to the dev team. Most modern game developers have this stance, to don't listen to the opinions of the players. Blizzard Entertainment for example has a well known policy to never put a player's suggestion into production. (I won't go more into it further because it's just opening a different can of worms.) Ron Gilbert (creator of the Monkey Island series) was recently quoted saying

"

You have to do what you want to do, and you have to do what you think is the right thing to do and what you think is the best thing to do. People who like what you do and are fans of your work are just going to like what you do as long as you do something true to yourself. You can get into a lot of trouble when you start to worry too much about what people are going to think because then you start to get into this weird self-censorship cycle. You do something that might be interesting and different and unique, but you become too worried what people are going to think, and you censor it.

Creative things, no matter what they are-books, video games, whatever-if they're really good, they have lots of pointy little edges, and that's what makes them interesting. It's all these pointy little spikes and all these little things you can cut yourself and prick yourself on, that's what makes creative work interesting. If you get into self-censorship mode, you start to pound all those pointy edges away because you're very afraid of offending somebody or worried what somebody will think of it. And then what you're left with is kind of blah, just not interesting. I think you just need to do what you think is the right thing to do, and hopefully people like it."

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Greetings,

Please understand that the original message that I posted was not intended as a guarantee that we will be adding this kind of gear in the future. This was meant to only be an example of how the pet’s Treasure Hunter could be enhanced to a higher level. While this does not rule out any possibility of adding equipment like this in the future, it was never a promise that it would be implemented.

Truth is you posted it to give false hope, so you could then argue no one had a problem with the reduction to TH1, when in reality little people did because you implied there would be gear.

Poor way to play it for a company.

[anjisnu]

meh moot point our opinions do not matter on this fact either way they can only hear our wallets

[Dreamin]

I normally don't like to play the race card but I BET if the JP community see this, their uproar and protest would make things differently for SE.

[Chuk]

Ah the beastmaster Treasure Hunter nerf. My turn to comment on this one.

This one is really easy for me. Follow me on this yeah? Beastmaster pets had higher treasure hunter than jobs subbed THF. Right? Well how is that fair that a player has to give up their subjob slot to get less treasure hunter than a disposable extra that another job can summon, multiple times, not be stressed about keeping it alive, and still have the room to sub other subjobs to maintain optimal kill speed? Thats the point of the nerf. BST/DNC simply had every advantage over ALL OTHER PLAYERS in terms of dynamis farming. And thats ALONE. Now, there are plenty of other job combinations that could farm Dynamis solo, that much we all know. But did they have as much Treasure Hunter as the BST did with a pet that automatically got rank 3 TH? Heck no. And to top it off, that source of Treasure Hunter has NO FEAR OF BEING DEFEATED. Something bad happens, oh well summon another pet (yes im aware they cost gil, but if you cant budget that out, you probably need to reasses your gil income. or level cooking up) and continue on like nothing happened. If any other job falls in Dynamis like that, guess what? Your screwed, even with reraise you could end up with 4 or 5 mobs still kicking it near your corpse. Just waiting like a pack of hungry honeybadgers waiting for that snake to pop its head up........ In short, Beastmaster was too powerful simply because pets ARE DISPOSABLE. I like the changes to jugpets, the extra strength was needed to make them more party viable. But expecting to make it rain treasure like a THF with a pet that has up to 3-4x the amount of HP of a THF and can be RESUMMONED in the case they die? I would like to see a THF pull that one off.

Long and short of it, It cramps on THF, it makes BST more anti-social, and it was encouraging to the RMTs to have a one stop shop for a farming job. Dont ask about that last one, I could talk your ear off about WHY that is.

Rawr blarg blarg!
~Chuk

[Zagen]

Soon enough the forum mods, and company, will always have to have a subnote saying the same thing at the rate of things.

You're right soon enough they will, because the way this situation was handled was wrong and has led to mistrust.

Unfortunately for them I will no longer be taking anything a developer/community representative says as fact or worthy of getting excited for. For a game company from a culture that historically upholds honesty and honor to high standards they've let me down. Instead of saying oops we screwed up, they lied and only after called them out on it did they try to say oops.

I don't know how many people share my thoughts on this but I'm the type of person that once trust is broken it can never be truly be regained. So now when SE says "X awesome thing is coming" my thought will be "sure it is, lets see if it comes out before I get bored with what I'm doing now, to see if it is awesome or not".

In my opinion that's a horrible spot to be in with your player base.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Soon enough the forum mods, and company, will always have to have a subnote saying the same thing at the rate of things.

As they should, people come to the forums to hear what the devs are in the process of doing, this is conveyed through the community reps, who you'd think would talk the truth. Every other time they've stated "we're thinking such and such" therefore everyone takes it as a possibility, and not a guarantee. The gear was taken as a guarantee as they implied it as such, if you can't trust the staff the convey the developers thoughts they may as well sack them and we can just post bullcrap and claim it as what SE are doing and have the possibility of it being true.



Long and short of it, It cramps on THF, it makes BST more anti-social, and it was encouraging to the RMTs to have a one stop shop for a farming job. Dont ask about that last one, I could talk your ear off about WHY that is.

BST was never anti-social, how is it the players faults that the Devs made it simply a solo job and NEVER invited to parties?

If all THF is is TH then that is again the Devs fault for such poor game design, that's not reason to remove job traits from a pet that is said job.

You don't see them removing Cure, Phalanx, Fast Cast etc from PUP pets.

[Zagen]

Long and short of it, It cramps on THF, it makes BST more anti-social, and it was encouraging to the RMTs to have a one stop shop for a farming job. Dont ask about that last one, I could talk your ear off about WHY that is.

Rawr blarg blarg!
~Chuk

RMT have leech spots with cleaves because they can be done 24/7 with 2 characters... Dyna can be done twice a day with 2 character why would they cut down their profit margins?

[Luvbunny]

Greetings,

Please understand that the original message that I posted was not intended as a guarantee that we will be adding this kind of gear in the future. This was meant to only be an example of how the pet’s Treasure Hunter could be enhanced to a higher level. While this does not rule out any possibility of adding equipment like this in the future, it was never a promise that it would be implemented.

I think we just caught you with your "pants down" so to speak... this is like a PR disaster. I mean could the developers have balls and be honest, admitting the reason for the nerf is to make sure time sink on dynamis is preserved??? Let's not go around and round beating the imaginary bushes. If you wrote you will add TH gears, then make it happen. So what, the players are outsmarting the developers bro and they are mad????

[Alpheus]

ton of mad

Quite a bit over the line no? I mean as upset as I was about the nerf to begin with and agreeing w/ you that there was some screw up I don't think it calls for absolutely laying into the guy and putting him on blast like that, implying he's uneducated or unqualified for what his job entails. I'd suggest chilling the fuck out since you can air your grievances without acting (or coming off) like that.

For all we know the Dev Team mentioned the TH gear off hand and Camate may have went on a limb or god knows what but doesn't excuse what you typed I don't think.

For all the flack Tanaka, the Dev Team and the Community Reps get, they aren't you're local derp in the ls and laying into them isn't going to do much to change their mistakes. They work on a game that you take so seriously as to word such a response like you did I would think some deference is in order. And I don't mean deference like they're infallible or perfect I mean deference to not post in the manner in which you did and instead say fuck idk "As much as I appreciate your diligence in passing along information from the Dev Teams this manner of mis-communication is most disheartening and therefore would hope in the future you will do what you can to make sure this doesn't happen again."

I'm just trying to get across that laying into him the way you did isn't going to change things, and in all fairness yea maybe being civil won't either and at best both are merely different styles in coping (for lack of a better word) about the current situation except one has class.


Will Truman: Yea I'm a big game player. My favorite is the "Being Nice to Waiters Game", yeah if you win you get to NOT go to hell.

P.S. This post is most likely gonna come off as white-knighting and maybe rightfully so all I know is my day is very shitty so maybe your post just pricked me the wrong way. Disregard as you wish.

[Byrth]

Realistically, Camate was probably copying and pasting a bad translation and didn't have any more insight into the minds of the Development Bros than we did at the time. It sounded like there were definite plans to release Pet TH gear (to both him and us), but apparently there weren't.

[Phogg]

You're absolutely right that BST has a lack of claiming ability compared to THF and BST in Dynamis if you're only looking at a subjobless BST. Every BST in Dynamis will be /DNC and have access to Animated Flourish for a ranged claim. BST/DNC are perfectly capable of out claiming anyone else. Only the BSTs that are foolish enough to face pull are the ones that should be losing in terms of claiming ability.
etc.

Way to completely miss the point. The point is that everyone is competitive in dynamis, not just BSTs, I'm just using those examples to illustrate the point, not make some irrelevant argument about ability to claim mobs. I farm dyna as thf, and I frequently encounter other THFs and NINs actively trying to take anything they can, almost unnecessarily and only because its close to me, just to be competitive or virtually piss on "their territory". Your argument about the stereotype of BSTs is based on fallacy.

Edit: Additionally, your argument about BSTs and TH is completely off point. A TH+1 item would put us at TH2 unless we sub /thf, which as you know, is never the case in dynamis. So no, we are not suggesting we are "entitled to being better TH than every job in the game aside from THF" nor is anyone suggesting we should be "entitled to have the monopoly to farming in Dynamis." Those are both made up conclusions in YOUR mind, nothing like that is represented here.

As I have said none of this would matter if they fixed the proc situation so that JA proc was not so vastly superior and consistent compared to the other options. The only reason there is a bottleneck which even creates this frustration is 90% of people crowd one of 3 possible camp/times. Even people who are not BST do it because they too are likely subbing /dnc to JA proc. Fix magic procs and fix WS procs and boom, you have three times the available mobs. None of that has anything to to with BSTs feeling entitled.

[Dethard]

Ah the beastmaster Treasure Hunter nerf. My turn to comment on this one.

This one is really easy for me. Follow me on this yeah? Beastmaster pets had higher treasure hunter than jobs subbed THF. Right? Well how is that fair that a player has to give up their subjob slot to get less treasure hunter than a disposable extra that another job can summon, multiple times, not be stressed about keeping it alive, and still have the room to sub other subjobs to maintain optimal kill speed? Thats the point of the nerf. BST/DNC simply had every advantage over ALL OTHER PLAYERS in terms of dynamis farming. And thats ALONE. Now, there are plenty of other job combinations that could farm Dynamis solo, that much we all know. But did they have as much Treasure Hunter as the BST did with a pet that automatically got rank 3 TH? Heck no. And to top it off, that source of Treasure Hunter has NO FEAR OF BEING DEFEATED. Something bad happens, oh well summon another pet (yes im aware they cost gil, but if you cant budget that out, you probably need to reasses your gil income. or level cooking up) and continue on like nothing happened. If any other job falls in Dynamis like that, guess what? Your screwed, even with reraise you could end up with 4 or 5 mobs still kicking it near your corpse. Just waiting like a pack of hungry honeybadgers waiting for that snake to pop its head up........ In short, Beastmaster was too powerful simply because pets ARE DISPOSABLE. I like the changes to jugpets, the extra strength was needed to make them more party viable. But expecting to make it rain treasure like a THF with a pet that has up to 3-4x the amount of HP of a THF and can be RESUMMONED in the case they die? I would like to see a THF pull that one off.

Long and short of it, It cramps on THF, it makes BST more anti-social, and it was encouraging to the RMTs to have a one stop shop for a farming job. Dont ask about that last one, I could talk your ear off about WHY that is.

Rawr blarg blarg!
~Chuk

So by your logic a PUP automaton with a spiritreaver head should have lower nukes than someone who subs BLM, or if they have the soulsoother head they should have less cures than someone who subs WHM?

The complaints about the pet TH was mainly due to Dynamis and not any other part of the game, and instead of fixing the problem which was the proc system it was easier to nerf BST.

I have never seen a situation where BST was chosen for a party over THF because people wanted TH, so how did pet TH cramp a THF.

[larrymc]

Based on Camate's response, and how he is normally so forthcoming with information - I also suspect the answer was carefully written for him and he is truly the messenger only. I think the SE devs threw the community reps under the bus to take the fall for this. Now we know - no pet TH items coming. We can move on.

[Camiie]

An ombudsman (conventional English plural: ombudsmen) is a person who acts as a trusted intermediary between either the state (or elements of it) or an organization, and some internal or external constituency, while representing not only but mostly the broad scope of constituent interests

I think we need one of these. The community reps are certainly NOT this.

[Ica]

Guess everyone in the original thread was right when they speculated that the gear would be impossible to obtain.

[Rezeak]

I just find it shady

When they reduced pet TH they said you will add it back via gear


As an adjustment to the balance of Treasure Hunter at level 99, the below pets will have their Treasure Hunter effect changed to Treasure Hunter I.

-Dipper Yuly
-Faithful Falcorr
※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger.

Which is what we were told and it wasn't said;
We are looking into giving player pet : TH gear

It was said we will reduce TH but give pet TH gear to increase it.

Maybe it was a bad translation or w/e

Honestly the TH thing is fine as it is just feels back handed that they nerfed it while saying don't worry you'll be able to get pet: TH gear then after the nerf they like err maybe not :P

Really they should of said it like this

We are reducing the TH on pet and we will reevaluate pet TH after and we may look into pet : TH gear if we feel it wouldn't devalue the TH of other jobs.

[Phogg]

BST was never anti-social, how is it the players faults that the Devs made it simply a solo job and NEVER invited to parties?

If all THF is is TH then that is again the Devs fault for such poor game design, that's not reason to remove job traits from a pet that is said job.

You don't see them removing Cure, Phalanx, Fast Cast etc from PUP pets.

Exactly, nothing is more irritating than people who clearly don't play the job suggesting BSTs are antisocial. We can't force others to invite us to parties or events. And trust me, I spent years trying to tear down those walls and show what BST can do but was continuously met with "nanananananana im not listening nanananana your logic makes no sense to me and my simple follower mentality nanananana". I don't know how many times I was met with "it can't be done with BST" only for me to.........do it with BST.

Hell, even our divine might win at 75 would have been a loss if not for myself and my wife, as BST, having the skill to stay alive when everyone else wiped and said "meh lets try again" until we, oops, won it for everyone else with our lowly funguar pets. People even posted endless parses at 75 of BSTs out damaging "superior" DD jobs. And even then this mentality persisted, until now that we're magically overpowered and need to be nerfed because of dynamis. Lunacy.

Enjoy this AA blast from the past, BST FTW, you're welcome alliance of dead people (Best viewed full screen so you can take in the utter astonishment via chat messages):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsynXgsPOB0

[Luvbunny]

As I have said none of this would matter if they fixed the proc situation so that JA proc was not so vastly superior and consistent compared to the other options. The only reason there is a bottleneck which even creates this frustration is 90% of people crowd one of 3 possible camp/times. Even people who are not BST do it because they too are likely subbing /dnc to JA proc. Fix magic procs and fix WS procs and boom, you have three times the available mobs. None of that has anything to to with BSTs feeling entitled.

Agree with this 100%, but I doubt they are smart enough to fix this, LAZINESS seems to be the key word since 2011. Ignorance is bliss for them. By doing the fixing you are suggesting we can have tons of blue, puppetmaster, etc, and not just limited to beastmaster.

[Chuk]

So by your logic a PUP automaton with a spiritreaver head should have lower nukes than someone who subs BLM, or if they have the soulsoother head they should have less cures than someone who subs WHM?

The complaints about the pet TH was mainly due to Dynamis and not any other part of the game, and instead of fixing the problem which was the proc system it was easier to nerf BST.

I have never seen a situation where BST was chosen for a party over THF because people wanted TH, so how did pet TH cramp a THF.

Lets take a moment to actually think about that one for a second. What i said about subjob use, is that Beastmaster was getting Treasure Hunter above what another player could get by subbing THF. Without taking gear or anything else into accound, Beastmaster could sub anything they wanted and still get treasure hunter 3 without penatly. That cramps on Thieves pretty heavily considering that WITHOUT GEAR, all they get is Tresure hunter 3. So your telling me that a job thats all about emnity adjustment, damage dealing, and treasure gathering skills should just step aside because a job with a resummonable damage dealing tank should also get massive treasure hunting ability without sacraficing their supportjob slot?

Also not sure how the PUP thing relates, and Puppets are pretty cool, but not nearly as good as having an actual BLM or WHM on spot. Restricions in the AI set them apart from a human being.

And to adress the Dymanis part, thats just a prime example. Treasure Hunter works everywhere last i checked, so do we really need armies of Beastmasters camping every NM that has a sellable item in the game? Thats the RMT connection, lets face it, Treasure Hunter pets can be resummoned over and over again. A real THF or someone subbed THF can't just die and pop back up as if nothing happened. Thats a MAJOR game flaw.

Oh and on a side note, SMN can deal plenty of damage too, so pet jobs are worth inviting if the player using them knows what they are doing. I have done plenty of pet jobs in parties, but they are by no means an easy job to play.

As for RMTs, yeah fell cleave is nice, but im pretty sure thats not their only source of income. Think about it. (That ones for the guy who questioned how RMT is related to this.)

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Text

So not only are you basing it on a THF being completely naked, but you're also doing so on a THF attacking once then disengaging. That's very unrealistic.

[Zagen]

Oh and on a side note, SMN can deal plenty of damage too, so pet jobs are worth inviting if the player using them knows what they are doing. I have done plenty of pet jobs in parties, but they are by no means an easy job to play.
Let me know the next time a PUP or BST gets into a relevant current event for more than procs, or a SMN for more than Perfect Defense and procs. Pet jobs do damage they don't however do "plenty of damage" unless you somehow have only leveled 1 job at this point in the game and it's BST, SMN, or PUP.

Edit: They never did "plenty of damage" even at 75 the only thing the did damage wise was do nearly hate free damage.

[Dethard]

Lets take a moment to actually think about that one for a second. What i said about subjob use, is that Beastmaster was getting Treasure Hunter above what another player could get by subbing THF. Without taking gear or anything else into accound, Beastmaster could sub anything they wanted and still get treasure hunter 3 without penatly. That cramps on Thieves pretty heavily considering that WITHOUT GEAR, all they get is Tresure hunter 3. So your telling me that a job thats all about emnity adjustment, damage dealing, and treasure gathering skills should just step aside because a job with a resummonable damage dealing tank should also get massive treasure hunting ability without sacraficing their supportjob slot?

Also not sure how the PUP thing relates, and Puppets are pretty cool, but not nearly as good as having an actual BLM or WHM on spot. Restricions in the AI set them apart from a human being.

And to adress the Dymanis part, thats just a prime example. Treasure Hunter works everywhere last i checked, so do we really need armies of Beastmasters camping every NM that has a sellable item in the game? Thats the RMT connection, lets face it, Treasure Hunter pets can be resummoned over and over again. A real THF or someone subbed THF can't just die and pop back up as if nothing happened. Thats a MAJOR game flaw.

Oh and on a side note, SMN can deal plenty of damage too, so pet jobs are worth inviting if the player using them knows what they are doing. I have done plenty of pet jobs in parties, but they are by no means an easy job to play.

As for RMTs, yeah fell cleave is nice, but im pretty sure thats not their only source of income. Think about it. (That ones for the guy who questioned how RMT is related to this.)

Where the PUP relates is that as you say the PUP may be cool but not the same as having a real BLM or WHM, well the same can be said for THF, the BST with pet TH3 may be cool but in reality not as good as having a THF with appropriate gear in party. You don't see many PUP's subbing WHM and then calling a soulsoother automaton.

And anyone who expected to be invited to party as THF would need more than the basic TH3 and that was even before TH pets were out so using a THF without any gear for comparison and saying they are cramped is a bit moot.

[SpankWustler]

Realistically, Camate was probably copying and pasting a bad translation and didn't have any more insight into the minds of the Development Bros than we did at the time. It sounded like there were definite plans to release Pet TH gear (to both him and us), but apparently there weren't.

Pretty much this.

Until one of the Community Bros makes a post about how the giant insects are coming over for blood-tea, and as of such, the CoP rings are finally being updated for level 99 to prevent the feet-people of Neptune from listening to our brain radios; I'll assume their insight into the Development process is based on whatever gets translated and sent their way.

Given that sometimes the stuff in the actual game isn't even translated accurately the first time, it's safe to say those translations aren't foolproof. Also, something as simple as a mistranslation of future perfect tense to future tense could drastically change a message.

Oh, and Camate, if you ever gain that insight into the Development Bros' thought process...Giant ants prefer chamomile with infant blood while giant mantises prefer Earl Grey with midget blood and two sugars. No cream.

[Xilk]

For all those arguing back and forth about dynamis:
Has the pet th nerf changed anything about bst being the optimal job for dynamis solo farming? Have the number of bandwagon bst's decreased at all since that time?

Get off it. this has little to do w/ dynamis. The 'Jerk perle bsts' in dynamis are the same players as the jerk bandwagon sams, bandwagon mnks, and bandwagon whatever players who have plagued any event or fad. In fact, those spewing anti-job HATE ARE THOSE JERKS!

for those players comparing what jobs can get treasure hunter... Bluemage can get th2 w/out /thf and that doesn't bother me at all. There have always been jobs which have big advantages in one situation or another. Thats one of the great strengths of the game.

I can see how a developer would be explaining that "in order for bst to get more th they would need a pet th+ piece of gear" w/out specific plans to implement such a thing. I can also see how a translator would leave that a bit vague in the post.

However, this is exactly the kind of thing a community rep should be looking out for and looking for the best way to say.
Japanese does not translate well. The way of thinking is very different. I lived in Japan for several years. Even speaking the language, you REALLY to acclimate to the culture. When you translate something, you don't just translate it. You retell it in another language. The attitudes of the english speaking communities are vastly different from the attitudes and perspective of the japanese community. This should be considered when retelling a response.

I can also see how someone would be tempted for a little bait and switch to mitigate the backlash this announcement made. As far as good communication goes it was a fail for one reason or another.

[Luvbunny]

I understand culture play a big influence, but come on... a simple yes and no, this is why, is more than sufficient. We do this because this is what we feel.... Stop playing the culture + race card. This is a video game not politic lol. All those snowflakes and princess softy with delicate feelings :)

[Sp1cyryan]

Greetings,

Please understand that the original message that I posted was not intended as a guarantee that we will be adding this kind of gear in the future. This was meant to only be an example of how the pet’s Treasure Hunter could be enhanced to a higher level. While this does not rule out any possibility of adding equipment like this in the future, it was never a promise that it would be implemented.

If you do not know if something will happen then why take the time to say it at all? You basically had no idea if this ever be done yet threw it out there.

Unless! It got shot down behind the scenes! TIN FOIL HATS AT THE READY! RALLY BEHIND CAMATE! HE SHALL FIGHT THIS CONSPIRACY FOR US!

Overall, I do not think it is a big deal, but now we have threads like this with BST fan boys off the wall taking a poorly phrased statement as a promise :|

[Aisu]

In context, it was a promise. And the slap at Americans was completely unnecessary, and as an American, I am offended by your post. I will, however, explain to you why people are so outraged by what's happened since you seem to be unable to get it.

We Americans have in our history a notorious con artist and and circus owner named P. T. Barnum. At one traveling circus he ran, he put an egret (a type of bird) on display; there was a sign directing visitors to this attraction, which read "This way to the egret". At the exit to the room with the egret, there was a very similar sign reading "This way to the egress". Now, the word "egress" sounds like it could mean "female egret" in the same way that we have words such as "actress" for a female actor. It doesn't. It's actually an obscure word for "exit". When people followed this sign, expecting to see another exotic bird, they would leave the circus grounds--only to find themselves charged full price if they wanted to get back in. I'm sure that Barnum blamed the victims of this trick for being "stupid" much like how you are doing now.

Barnum's "egress" con is a prime example of how you can speak the literal truth and still be a damn dirty liar. Human languages are inherently imprecise and incomplete and a single sentence may potentially convey an unlimited range of possible meanings. Some of these are the exact opposite of the sentence's literal meaning. It's the context that makes all the difference. When a speaker creates an utterance intended to create in the minds of the listener an impression at variance with what the speaker believes to be true, deception has been perpetrated. Semantic game-playing makes no moral difference; if you say something that you know has been misinterpreted by the listener in a way favorable to you, it is up to you to correct it or at least disavow the mistaken interpretation. If you do not, then you have lied.

Now, the FFXI development team has the resources of a multibillion dollar international corporation behind them; there are numerous people working for Square-Enix who are supposed to be devoted to making sure these kind of "misunderstandings" don't take place. And in fact, on other issues we have had official statements from Camate and crew saying, "No, you misunderstand, what we meant was _____." What can we conclude from this? Either the reps were lying and the dev team was silent about TH pet gear (quite unlikely! Don't be mad, guys, just mentioning this for logical completeness), the dev team was lying at the time, the dev team is lying now, or the dev team just plain forgot about the original statement and we deserve an apology.

As for the issue of whether BST pets should have TH or not, well, all I have to say about it is this: the dev team has made it very clear that to them, boosting item drops rather than (say) doing damage is a very big part of what THF is about. If they didn't want to give us a pet that boosted item drops, then they should not have made those pets THF job to begin with.

Nicely said and true but the fact is that its their game and they can do what they like, If you don't like it then stop paying and be happy instead of complaining about some misunderstanding. Get use to the idea that shit happens, Just because they changed their mind doesn't mean they lied so what if they planned on doing TH gear they then realised it wasn't needed and changed their minds and that is their right to do so. Your right is to express your feelings and hope they listen or to stop paying if you dont like it.

Alot of this game needs to be balanced out and even by putting pet TH to 1 is still unbalanced since bst can kill solo that thf can't or farm alot faster then thf without a mage to buff/heal them. I'm leveling bst because of this and i don't really want to, Another example is I'm nearly done on my rag but still believe resolution needs to be nerfed or give scythe a stronger WS. I mean a scythe that has the highest Base dmg and longest delay on it gets shit on by an infirior weapon stat wise because of that WS. Just not something you would expect if your looking for balance.

[Tagrineth]

You could only come to a conclusion like this by totally disregarding context. You either totally fail at reading comprehension or you're just stupid. Pick one.

Or I just take things at face value instead of reading what I WANT to read into it.

But thanks for the personal attack, douchebag.

I *REALLY* hope that SE doesn't relent on giving pet:TH+ gear just to appease the immeasurable degree of QQ.

[Camiie]

I honestly think some of you would forgo buffs to your own jobs just to see someone else dragged down with nerfs. It seems to make you happier when someone else is nerfed than when you are buffed.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Except we see this sort of thing happen ALL THE TIME. I see BSTs with this sort of attitude all the time.

That sort of thing? You mean a BST doing a zone and not answering you.... Interesting enough, some people turn of tells, or are too busy to spend time answering impatient people.

Even worse you're told the time remaining, so your qualm is with a/multiple BST doing something you want to do.... shame on them, don't they know you have priority.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

It's not hard to respond to a tell at all. If you're busy when you get the tell, wait until you have a little breathing space and then respond. Don't just completely ignore someone. I understand that these stupid bandwagon BSTs have no friends and therefore have no social skills, but it's common courtesy to respond when somebody talks to you.

And yes, it should be clear that multiple people have priority over a single BST. It a case of 2+ people having fun vs 1 person having fun. Not only that, but a group of people will most certainly kill quicker than a BST.


When a way of checking time remaining for said event is built into the game there is no need to reply to a question with which you already have an answer.

No, wrong! It's not a case of more people have priority, that's NOT how this game works. First come First serve... Do something else while you wait, or go AFK. You do NOT have priority, you NEVER will.

The game functions simply: If you pay to play the game, you have the right to play any part of it when you want to.

Kill speed is IRRELEVANT.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I understand that a lot of you bandwagon BSTs have started playing the job because you're social outcasts and are unable to find any friends to play with, but that doesn't mean that you should take it out on other players.

lol, you attempts at trolling are atrocious. Seriously, Kindergarten children do it better.

I hope you haven't played this game long, otherwise I'm surprised you haven't realised how this game works by now.

The people are the same the jobs just change.

[Eric]

lol, you attempts at trolling are atrocious. Seriously, Kindergarten children do it better.

I hope you haven't played this game long, otherwise I'm surprised you haven't realised how this game works by now.

The people are the same the jobs just change.
SE makes changes to jobs here and there, people are happy and/or sad, but nothing actually changes until they introduce something huge like perfect defense or embrava, and then people slightly tweak their setups to accommodate these changes.

So while BST has improved a lot in the past few years, nothing has really changed. People still don't want you in their groups, and as a result you take it out on innocent people.

But that's beside the point. SE has made their decision. BST isn't getting pet TH gear. Boo hoo. The job is fine as it is. I don't really see why this thread has gone on for so long.

[Arcon]

It's no more "dickwad" than people that call on their linkshell if they want something and someone else is camping it, or people that claim NM's when a previous person/party dies/looses claim... Deal with it.

I've dealt with it a long time ago, doesn't mean I have to start liking them now. Instead of raging at them I get all giddy when their job gets nerfed. No harm in that, just a little schadenfreude.

[Aisu]

People like to bitch up about something its just in our nature to complain to make themselves feel better about something. Anyways to the point i dislike the BST job myself, i duoed my apoc with a friend and have plenty i do other events with like abyssea/nyzul/ein and so on. Saying that i am leveling BST myself cause bitch all you want it is still the best solo job, this game is really unbalanced and really needs sorting and giving bst no TH gear is actually a step in that direction since bst can solo stuff thf can't it would be pointless for them to have any TH as it is so be happy with TH 1. Worried about TH then bring a thf friend to just poke it for you since this is suppose to be a social game anyways.

[Eric]

I've dealt with it a long time ago, doesn't mean I have to start liking them now. Instead of raging at them I get all giddy when their job gets nerfed. No harm in that, just a little schadenfreude.

That's basically what my first post in this thread was about. This is the first BST thread I've ever posted in, but apparently it's some sort of crime to point out that some BSTs are assholes, and it makes me some sort of mega-troll.

[Zagen]

That's basically what my first post in this thread was about. This is the first BST thread I've ever posted in, but apparently it's some sort of crime to point out that some players are assholes, and it makes me some sort of mega-troll.
FTFY

I've had my asshole moments and they aren't exclusive to me being on BST and I don't run to change to BST when I'm in an asshole mood.

Seriously just because they were on BST means nothing or are you saying if said person(s) entered on BLU for example you would have been perfectly okay with it and waited for them to exit?

[Daniel_Hatcher]

SE makes changes to jobs here and there, people are happy and/or sad, but nothing actually changes until they introduce something huge like perfect defense or embrava, and then people slightly tweak their setups to accommodate these changes.

So while BST has improved a lot in the past few years, nothing has really changed. People still don't want you in their groups, and as a result you take it out on innocent people.

But that's beside the point. SE has made their decision. BST isn't getting pet TH gear. Boo hoo. The job is fine as it is. I don't really see why this thread has gone on for so long.

lol, still a very poor attempt.

What you meant was BST are forced to solo as people like you don't allow them into parties, then bitch and moan when said BST's who were forced to do so in the first place are in a zone that was empty doing something that requires you to go with multiple people.

You're also deluded if you think the main issue is that no gear is added and not the fact SE lied to get the result they wanted. There would be FAR less complaints from people (a few who don't even have BST up) if they learned how to correctly type a sentence without implying something they had no intention of doing simply to rig the results.

[Phogg]

The reason I singled out BST players is because the job has always made it easier for them to act like assholes in comparison to lots of other jobs (MPK says hello), and they've always taken advantage of that fact to mess with other people's fun, purposefully or not.

We're talking in circles here, come on guys.

And because people have historically not needed to assume they might one day need to rely on a BST they are quick to be assholes to them. I had a SAM who was in Ifrit's cauldron only to farm hakutaku items follow me around while I was duoing Tunnok with my wife at 70, an NM literally no one cares about unless you want the BST axe it drops. And trust me, no one cared about that NM, it took 4 days of attempts to finally get it to 1% and we never saw anyone there who looked remotely interested in it until that one day.

So imagine what it was like when we finally get it to 1% and go for our last pet swaps with red HP after an epic 40 minute fight to see this SAM come up, take a picture of it and WS it to death right in front of us the second it went yellow during our last pet swap. His only response was lolBST GTFO.

See? Anyone can be a dick. You claim to constantly run into dickhead BSTs. Well, back in the day I constantly ran into dickhead EVERYONE ELSE. Once again, you're placing the blame on the job, not the asshole himself. I don't go around assuming all SAMs are dickheads because that event, I go around assuming THAT GUY is an asshole.

Not to mention your limbus example is moronic, its a timed event anyone can enter, who cares if it was a group of BSTs? What makes you think your party had any more right to the zone than anyone else anyway, regardless of their jobs? Grow up.

[Eric]

You came in here to attack BSTs because you feel that BSTs are assholes when in reality it's the players that are assholes and they just happened to be on BST when they were an asshole to you.

Some players are bad. A lot of rude people have joined the BST bandwagon because it gives them a certain advantage that allows them to do things that people would consider inconsiderate.

I feel a little happy when BST gets nerfed because I know it affects the people who play the job selfishly. Unfortunately that means some nice players get hit. It's not my wish for BST to get nerfed, but I'm not going to feel bad about it either.

Good BSTs are still good. They're still nice. I still like them.

I still don't understand how it's a crime to point out that in my experience (and others' experiences), BST has a larger proportion of players who are jerks. Yes, everyone can be a dick, but BSTs are an easy target due to their reputation.

[Zagen]

Because you're basing your "BST has a larger proportion of players who are jerks" on anecdotal stories, I only once got Sobek stolen by a BST when crap hit the fan while I was working on Almace and Kannagi with a trio group, that BST took claim, put their flag up, and accepted our invite. They even helped by holding it until we recovered from Weakness and once we killed it didn't ask for anything and didn't lot anything until we offered any and all +2 items which they took 1.

Also with the exception of 1 BST every BST I've come across in Dynamis has respected me by leaving "my" (note I know they are not really mine) aggroed mobs alone when I had multiple on me.

By my anecdotal stories BST are truly kind and selfless players who are willing to help out when they have a chance. The reality is my friend and I got lucky and we've met nice players who happened to be on BST.

Your logic is just as flawed as people saying Abyssea created level capped gimps that didn't exist at 75.

[Phogg]

Some players are bad. A lot of rude people have joined the BST bandwagon because because it gives them a certain advantage that allows them to do things that people would consider inconsiderate.


Just reread that please. As I brought up earlier in this thread, those recent bandwagon BSTs you find so frustrating are in reality, not BSTs, they play some other job when they are not in dynamis. You know, the same ones who exclude BSTs from parties so they can get 3 more kills an hour, the same ones who don't invite BSTs to events and thought they were useless (and they were wrong the entire time), the same ones who ironically led me to BST to begin with because it was nearly impossible to find a party when I was a lvl 60 THF and it was "this specific party setup or GTFO lolDRG lolBST lolTHF etc". Those pricks are pricks because they are pricks, not because they magically turned into pricks when they found a use for the BST job.

Here's another back in time moment, this is one of the many many many times my wife (BLM) and I (THF) found ourselves bored to tears in jeuno waiting for a party shortly before we said screw it and went to unlock BST and never looked back. And despite our duoing for XP, we still managed to help our friends with missions, events etc. We didn't turn to BST to be anti-social, we turned to BST to feel like we had more control over our own progress, and as it turned out, we had a hell of a lot more fun that way ^^ I've done literally nothing in a typical party/ally setup that was more fun then the top 20+ memories of being a BST.

http://youtu.be/6arzbx_noXk

[Camiie]

Everyone has the right to be a dickwad. Very well put. And BST seem take advantage of that right.

When you say "BST take advantage of that right," who exactly do you mean? All BSTs? You're plenty smart enough to know that's not the case. A BST? Some BSTs? Well, so what? There's jerks in every group of people. I've known some dickwad PLDs who were incredibly self-important because they felt the world revolved around them. I've known some who were the nicest, most humble people you'd ever meet. I guess I should throw all the PLDs under the bus since some were not nice people. Come on, I expect better out of some of you than this.

[Eric]

You guys are really dragging this out. I've said what I've wanted to say, but you guys keep on repeating the same arguments.

Tell yourselves that there aren't a higher proportion of BSTs who are jackasses, and who knows, maybe you're right. There's no way to prove it. In my experience, this isn't true, and it shouldn't matter. All I'm saying is that I get a little kick out of seeing these sorts of announcements due to my experiences with people who play the job. I don't know why you guys are getting so riled up about this. I even explicitly said that I don't want the job to get nerfed. My personal feelings toward the job have absolutely no bearing on anything that the development crew does or what the rest of the playerbase thinks about the job.

All of you just need to shut up and let me have my own opinion. You really aren't helping your case by harassing me.

[Eric]

Just reread that please. As I brought up earlier in this thread, those recent bandwagon BSTs you find so frustrating are in reality, not BSTs, they play some other job when they are not in dynamis. You know, the same ones who exclude BSTs from parties so they can get 3 more kills an hour, the same ones who don't invite BSTs to events and thought they were useless (and they were wrong the entire time), the same ones who ironically led me to BST to begin with because it was nearly impossible to find a party when I was a lvl 60 THF and it was "this specific party setup or GTFO lolDRG lolBST lolTHF etc". Those pricks are pricks because they are pricks, not because they magically turned into pricks when they found a use for the BST job.


I specifically stated that the bandwagon BSTs are the ones I dislike.

I've only met a few people who main BST, but they have been some of the best/and nicest players I know.

That being said a nerf to TH shouldn't be such a great hit to main BST(since when is that a defining part of the job?), but it is to the bandwagon BSTs who level the job solely for dynamis and other things.

I never shouted "LET'S START A WAR ON BSTS". You guys act like I did. This whole time I've been saying that it's not all BSTs who are assholes.

(I'll admit I made a few inflammatory comments on purpose, but it's hard not to when you guys all collectively jump at any person who says anything resembling an insult to the job.)

[Zagen]

That being said a nerf to TH shouldn't be such a great hit to main BST(since when is that a defining part of the job?), but it is to the bandwagon BSTs who level the job solely for dynamis and other things.
It isn't, if you haven't actually read the responses the issues are:

1) Poor wording
2) lying/denial

Don't get me wrong there would have been a lot of complaining about TH nerf had the inference that Pet: TH+ gear would be coming not been made. When a game company who attempts to give information to the player base doesn't check their wording and then denies the inferences made by that poor wording it is far worse than any nerf.


(I'll admit I made a few inflammatory comments on purpose, but it's hard not to when you guys all collectively jump at any person who says anything resembling an insult to the job.)
Maybe because those comments weren't accurate to begin with.

[Arcon]

When you say "BST take advantage of that right," who exactly do you mean? All BSTs?

I refuse to put a non-generalization disclaimer on everything I say. Of course I don't mean all BST, anyone who assumes I do is retarded.

It's not just a coincidence though, that it applies to BST more than other jobs, because the game mechanics of BST promote that behavior. It's easier to be a dick on BST than on any other job. Take the two examples I mentioned. Dynamis provides BST with a great advantage, because they can solo with little risk, kill rather quickly and still get many procs from /DNC, as well as TH1 on their pet. So of course people will abuse that. Same with Abyssea NMs, they can kill them without any help, so people will sometimes go for it, disregarding the fact that it'll hold up other people from doing the same thing. It's asocial behavior, which, in itself, is not BST-specific, but BST can take advantage of that better than most jobs.

[Camiie]

I refuse to put a non-generalization disclaimer on everything I say. Of course I don't mean all BST, anyone who assumes I do is retarded.

But you are generalizing.


It's not just a coincidence though, that it applies to BST more than other jobs, because the game mechanics of BST promote that behavior. It's easier to be a dick on BST than on any other job. Take the two examples I mentioned. Dynamis provides BST with a great advantage, because they can solo with little risk, kill rather quickly and still get many procs from /DNC, as well as TH1 on their pet. So of course people will abuse that. Same with Abyssea NMs, they can kill them without any help, so people will sometimes go for it, disregarding the fact that it'll hold up other people from doing the same thing. It's asocial behavior, which, in itself, is not BST-specific, but BST can take advantage of that better than most jobs.

People will abuse most anything. That doesn't mean those things should not exist or should be altered.

[SpankWustler]

It's not just a coincidence though, that it applies to BST more than other jobs, because the game mechanics of BST promote that behavior. It's easier to be a dick on BST than on any other job. Take the two examples I mentioned. Dynamis provides BST with a great advantage, because they can solo with little risk, kill rather quickly and still get many procs from /DNC, as well as TH1 on their pet. So of course people will abuse that. Same with Abyssea NMs, they can kill them without any help, so people will sometimes go for it, disregarding the fact that it'll hold up other people from doing the same thing. It's asocial behavior, which, in itself, is not BST-specific, but BST can take advantage of that better than most jobs.

These are the same things that let a competent player do really well while solo on Beastmaster, though. The baby definitely drops a really nightmarish I-use-full-Aurore-for-every-action-poop in the bathwater sometimes, but I don't think both need to be tossed out in one go.

If somebody is dumb or ineffectual enough to build up a huge back-log of already proc-ed monsters in Dynamis or spend a half-hour slaying the mighty Sobek, that's not going to be a person prepared enough for things to go badly to be hard to deal with. Just make things go badly for that person and the problem is usually solved.

[Aldersyde]

Or I just take things at face value instead of reading what I WANT to read into it.

But thanks for the personal attack, douchebag.

I *REALLY* hope that SE doesn't relent on giving pet:TH+ gear just to appease the immeasurable degree of QQ.

There was no need to do mental gymnastics to read anything into it. You need to go back and read the original thread about the falcorr/yuly nerf. Everybody, including the bst haters, was under the full impression that the gear would be added later. In fact, there were a couple posters who thought it would be a great idea to nerf's bst's damage output by placing the pet: th+ on a low-damage ranked axe axe, a la the thief's knife. Seemed to have gotten handful of likes as well.

I also think you have a lot of nerve simpering about a personal attack. You came into the bst forums specifically to get a rise out of people by referring to the bst community as whole as "idiot fanboys." You come in to poke a hornet's nest and then you whine when you get stung? Pathetic. Don't dish it out if you can't take it

[Baudle]

Hello everyone,

As this thread has become inflammatory, we are going to be locking it at this time. Thank you all for your feedback and discussion!

~GM Baudle