[dev1058] SMN Two-hour abilities

[Vat]

Hi there,

I know that the full title for the dev post is "[dev1058] Merit Point two-hour abilities". But I have been doing some thinking about the future 2 hour adjustments.

So.. here is my idea, my though has been since level 70, 2 hour can be outclassed by other BP's.

What if we changed how the 2 hour works?

First put Alexander and Odin on 2 hour recasts with an MP cost of about 25% of your mana pool. This way they are no longer tied to the 2 hour.

Keep the idea that you get avatar for free and open access to avatar 2 hours. But.. in addition the avatars are boosted. Say, there is a straght % boost to all stats.

I dont know by how much, cause you need to try and keep balance.

But the boost is for core stats, def, att, acc, mgc att and mgc acc.

It would allow you to be able summon a slightly boosted avatars for a short period every 2 hours?

The future merits for the 2 hours could be to boost different aspects. For example, put merits in either physical, att and acc, magic att and magic acc.

Thoughts? Comments? what % would be enough but not game breaking?

[Babekeke]

Hi there,

I know that the full title for the dev post is "[dev1058] Merit Point two-hour abilities". But I have been doing some thinking about the future 2 hour adjustments.

So.. here is my idea, my though has been since level 70, 2 hour can be outclassed by other BP's.

What if we changed how the 2 hour works?

First put Alexander and Odin on 2 hour recasts with an MP cost of about 25% of your mana pool. This way they are no longer tied to the 2 hour.

I'll just stop you there to point out that if they were simply on a 2 hour recast, they would become affected by haste and fastcast, allowing them to be cast much sooner than every 2 hours. So I don't see this ever happening.


Keep the idea that you get avatar for free and open access to avatar 2 hours. But.. in addition the avatars are boosted. Say, there is a straght % boost to all stats.

I dont know by how much, cause you need to try and keep balance.

But the boost is for core stats, def, att, acc, mgc att and mgc acc.

It would allow you to be able summon a slightly boosted avatars for a short period every 2 hours?

I'd quite like to see this as our new 2 hour to be honest. When used it greatly boosts the stats of the avatar that you currently have out, and they stay boosted until the avatar is released, or dies, up to a max of 30 mins (kind of like Familiar). This is why I say 'greatly boosts the stats' because I'm thinking doubles the HP and cures it to full; giving us half a chance for the avatar to make it even close to the 30 mins ^^. I don't see that this would be over powered as if the avatar DOES die, it's all over.


The future merits for the 2 hours could be to boost different aspects. For example, put merits in either physical, att and acc, magic att and magic acc.

Thoughts? Comments? what % would be enough but not game breaking?

Physical acc/att aren't much use for Astral Flow, I think everyone would simply go for M Att, unless M Acc affects Odin or Diabolos success rate.

[Badieh]

I like the idea of boosting an avatars stats while under Astral Flow.

[Teraniku]

Personally, I'd just like them to scale the original Astral Flow abilities to our current level (99) I mean they can scale everything else. including armor using level sync, Why can't they scale our avatars astral flow 2 hour abilities to our current level? Would give us some more options to use them after level 50 and might change the only use 2 hours for Perfect Defense mentality.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

SMN new two-hour looks to allow re-use of pacts instantly while active.

[Sasaraixx]

Yup. Smn magic and blood pact recast timers reduced to 0. I'm guessing it will last 30 seconds. Could be interesting!

[Rakshaka]

This is gonna be sweet. I'm gonna crank out so much damage during that time; assuming I have full mp.

[Luvbunny]

Unless it only last 10 seconds LOL, or 30 seconds LOL, it should last at least a good 1.5 mnts or 3 mnts - just like astral flow is. Good on paper, probably implemented atrociously bad just because SE has a grudge over pet jobs, ALL pet jobs 2 hours look downright trash, except SMN - at least on paper.

[Arcon]

Personally, I'd just like them to scale the original Astral Flow abilities to our current level (99) [..]

How does it not scale?


Unless it only last 10 seconds LOL, or 30 seconds LOL [..]

30 seconds would be amazing already.

[Teraniku]

How does it not scale?



The original Astral Flow abilities (Diamond Dust, Searing light etc.) were originally scaled to the first level cap in the game, which was level 50. They haven't been touched since.

[Badieh]

The original Astral Flow abilities (Diamond Dust, Searing light etc.) were originally scaled to the first level cap in the game, which was level 50. They haven't been touched since.

Wow!.... I have been playing this game for over 8 years and just learned this today....

[Arcon]

The original Astral Flow abilities (Diamond Dust, Searing light etc.) were originally scaled to the first level cap in the game, which was level 50. They haven't been touched since.

Do you mean it was implemented at level 50 or that it was actually adjusted and balanced for level 50?

[Chimerawizard]

ALL pet jobs 2 hours look downright trash, except SMN - at least on paper.

Guess you don't know a Mythic toting PUP. pet gets 500 fists permanently and w/ current 2hr gets 100 fists. stack on top of that mighty strikes and you got some crazy dmg.

just posted this on another topic but w/e.

back in the day; people used SMN in Dynamis a LOT.
someone pulled the group of mobs, 45-60 mobs. BLMs did ES-sleepga.
couple SMN's astral flow'd and guess what? 3-5k DMG to each mob on each BP. (obv. not all mobs got hit each time)
back then it was kinda broken. Now, that's close to what I should be expecting my astral flow BP to do every 45 seconds.

augmented 2hr dmg equation:
BASE=(smn skill)/10 X (Avatar's Level)
DMG=(BASE)X(day/weather bonus)X(resist?)X(MAB/MDB)X(Mythic weapon proc 2-3 hit proc?)

I have seen avatars petrified by lv5 petrify against Akvan w/ me SMN99. So, they can definately spawn lower level than the master.(if anyone didn't know)

[Arcon]

I have seen avatars petrified by lv5 petrify against Akvan w/ me SMN99. So, they can definately spawn lower level than the master.(if anyone didn't know)

That's news to me, and I'm not entirely sure whether or not to believe it, as every level-dependant formula I've come across so far used 99 for the level value.

[Teraniku]

Do you mean it was implemented at level 50 or that it was actually adjusted and balanced for level 50?

Was balanced / implemented for level 50 ish (I say 50 ish since SMN was added after original release but before Rise of the Zilart was released in Japan. Level cap was increased through the use of the limit break quests over a period of time, but the original Astral Flow abilities were balanced for whichever cap was at hand when SMN was added to the game. between lvl 50-60) which is why the original Astral Flow abilities start sucking hard on anything over lvl 60.

-The main problem is , I'm not sure the abilities can be scaled, which is why they gave us Alex and Odin as astral Flow Avatars. A Shame really, because it would open up a lot more options instead of the one trick pony of Astral Flow---> Perfect Defense. Since Odin is just about useless on most high level mobs , unless you get really lucky.

[Arciel]

i posted this in June :p


Alternatively, we have the possibility of the 2nd 2HR ability which allows SMN to work outside the constraints of BP timer, for 3 minute. That is to say, for 3 minutes, Blood Pact recast timer is 0. Once again, this is balanced out by the MP limiter. It'd be like a SMN Tabula Rasa.

I hope the duration is good. Anything less than 1 minute would be sad.. and anything more than that would be awesome. Granted we most likely won't need 30s to spend all our MP on BP rages, it would be a wasted 2hr if the enemy can get in a TP move that requires you to resummon and reposition avatar.

This is a most welcome change to have an alternate use for zerging than PD. Some potential strategies involving chain-Squall would be interesting too

[Luvbunny]

They need a minimum of 3 mnts on this since avatar can be slept, or one shotted, and it takes time to resummon and bring it to the NM - not to mention our MPs is not unlimited so being able to land 3-4 hits would be great. But watching the developer bros trying to come up with ideas and figuring out what the players want is like Comedy of Errors. They often fail spectacularly. If the new 2 hours ideas are a sign to come for 2012-2013 we probably would save us some money and headache by taking a year off since everything will hit a total low before they can be saved again.

[Arcon]

They need a minimum of 3 mnts on this since avatar can be slept, or one shotted, and it takes time to resummon and bring it to the NM - not to mention our MPs is not unlimited so being able to land 3-4 hits would be great.

Every job's 2hr can be completely fucked up if they're killed, slept, terrorized, petrified and sometimes even silenced or paralyzed, depending on the case. SMN even has a massive advantage (even over other pet jobs) in that they can respawn avatars immediately at no cost other than some time. 30 seconds is already enough to be a great 2 hour ability, one minute would be amazing (it would be enough to empty your entire MP pool including Convert), three minutes would be massively overpowered. Anything more than one minute is seriously unrealistic. I realize SMN's desire for some love (and it is well-deserved after the years of abuse), but that's just being greedy after already getting a great offer (and possibly the best new 2 hour ability out of the pool).

[Dreamin]

SMN, the new Chainstun job (well at least for 30s). Go!

[Badieh]

So... what is the duration of the new 2h?

[Luvbunny]

Anything more than one minute is seriously unrealistic. I realize SMN's desire for some love (and it is well-deserved after the years of abuse), but that's just being greedy after already getting a great offer (and possibly the best new 2 hour ability out of the pool).

A minimum of 60-90 seconds is a must - not being greedy at all, but this a 2 hours job you know, not some 20 mnts JA. It should mean something substantial, and actually useful. Between BP rage and ward, and all those slow animations, 90 seconds would be decent. We need something as close as embrava, and no - Perfect Defense - does not count.

As a pet based job - summoner is the lowest on the totem pole. Beast and Pup both beat it easily when it comes to damage output. I mean if SE wants us to be a pet DD job with mp to put checks and balance then they need to tweak the avatar hp and damage. Otherwise they should revise our avatar favor ability. I mean look at scholar where they can be a very good magic damage and also buffer/healer with no disadvantage at being able to switch around as needed. We should be able to switch between pet DD (slightly less than beast) or buffers (quite good as bard or corsair but can only have 1 instead of 2 effects).

[Arcon]

A minimum of 60-90 seconds is a must - not being greedy at all, but this a 2 hours job you know, not some 20 mnts JA. It should mean something substantial, and actually useful. Between BP rage and ward, and all those slow animations, 90 seconds would be decent. We need something as close as embrava, and no - Perfect Defense - does not count.

As a pet based job - summoner is the lowest on the totem pole. Beast and Pup both beat it easily when it comes to damage output. I mean if SE wants us to be a pet DD job with mp to put checks and balance then they need to tweak the avatar hp and damage. Otherwise they should revise our avatar favor ability. I mean look at scholar where they can be a very good magic damage and also buffer/healer with no disadvantage at being able to switch around as needed. We should be able to switch between pet DD (slightly less than beast) or buffers (quite good as bard or corsair but can only have 1 instead of 2 effects).

Talk about being undeservingly entitled. Almost everything you just said reeks of greed and ignorance. Yes, this is a two-hour ability, that's why it increases our damage output immensely. Even with 30 seconds that would be enough for (at least) six BPs in 30 seconds. That's about a 900% increase in damage. That's nine times the normal damage you do. One minute duration would mean 1800% increase in damage. And you say up to 90 seconds is "minimum"? You say that's a 20min JA? Name any other ability (normal or two-hour) that increases damage output this much. Hell even Hundred Fists on a haste/MA-less MNK doesn't compare. The only reason it would win is because MNK does more damage natively already. But for a percentual boost, it outdoes Hundred Fists by a large margin.

And that's still disregarding your next inane statement. Perfect Defense is very much as good as Embrava. It's for defense what Embrava is for offense. Apart from Nyzul Isle Uncharted there's nothing I'm aware of that takes an Embrava without a matching Perfect Defense. It basically makes you immune to damage, including enfeebles. How is that not already amazing?

It sounds like you're just butthurt that you're just used as a PD whore and your SMN is not really considered outside of it. But know what? The exact same thing applies to SCH. No, SCH is not a "very good magic damage" dealer. They're about average. Average at something that even great is not enough for. How many BLM do you know who are called to deal damage? BLM is a proc job these days. For proper events it's entirely unwelcome, unlike SMN.

And what does this have to do with Avatar's Favor? How is that related to being a DD? And why the BST comparisons? Yes BST is a better DD but so is WAR. Just because they're both pet jobs doesn't mean they're the same, BST and SMN are used for entirely different purposes. Need a dispensable mob? BST fails completely. Need magic damage? BST fails completely. Comparing them is pointless.

If you're at all serious about anything you said, you are entirely delusional to a degree that's hard to comprehend. I fear I'm getting trolled here big time. And if that was indeed your goal, kudos, you got me.

If you wanna take anything away from this post, let it be this: I love SMN. I would love for SMN to get actual boosts. But this two-hour ability does not count. Not because it isn't amazing (it most certainly and definitely is), but because two-hour abilities are, by design, almost useless. We need something outside of situational abilities that will help boost our skills, be it offensive or defensive. Two-hour abilities should never have been in the game at all. But as far as they go, this one is truly awesome.

[Badieh]

So.... no one knows the new 2h duration?....

[Infidi]

30 seconds isn't it ?

[Babekeke]

It is indeed 30 second duration. With charge time, you're lucky to get more than 5 BPs off in this time.

[Badieh]

It is indeed 30 second duration. With charge time, you're lucky to get more than 5 BPs off in this time.

Hmm... interesting.

[Infidi]

Tested this abit on the Test Server, I got off 6 Phys BPs barely. Five is indeed the more reasonable though, pending weird lag spikes and the like. Its KIND OF really 6 or 7(Getting off 5 or 6 within the 2hr time) as the timer is still reset after the last bp and the 2hr wears. So get a freebie kinda. :D I'm thinking as long as you get the animation going, but the two hour wears, it'll still count as a 'reset' for your timer. I dunno though didn't test that part yet. Anyone figure that out yet? ^^

[Arcon]

I dunno though didn't test that part yet. Anyone figure that out yet? ^^

I didn't test for that specifically, but I'm pretty sure that's the case, as BP timer is determined at activation time, not at spell effect time.

[Infidi]

Used dolls in {A} Altepa the first time, tested on Melo Melo this time so wouldn't have to worry about attacking another mob. Ignore the damage XD, was naked(also using Ducal Guard, Minikin, and Razed Ruins atmas) and using Garuda(wind -perp and bp time-) trial staff. Looks like 7 is max with the 'extra' one for the reset after 2hr wears. So potentially 8 in a row? Alittle more powerful then I thought was going to be. Barring you have the MP pool, para, other status ailments, etc. lol. Any thoughts? ^^
http://i49.tinypic.com/inhb1i.jpg

***EDIT***

Just had a thought! No one will probably read this before I answer, but: Does the 2hr reset an already used BP? Going to go test now. x.x I'm duuumb, should have thought of that before.!

***EDIT2***
It does indeed reset the BP timer. So potentially 9 BP in a row. Use Bp, use 2hr, then use last bp after 2hr wears.
http://i50.tinypic.com/20g1ild.jpg

[Arcon]

Does the 2hr reset an already used BP?

Yes, it does. Meaning it can give you an extra BP both at the start and at the end.

[Infidi]

Yes, it does. Meaning it can give you an extra BP both at the start and at the end.

Yeppers. Edited original post with new SS ^^.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26066-dev1058-SMN-Two-hour-abilities?p=351002#post351002


Used dolls in {A} Altepa the first time, tested on Melo Melo this time so wouldn't have to worry about attacking another mob. Ignore the damage XD, was naked(also using Ducal Guard, Minikin, and Razed Ruins atmas) and using Garuda(wind -perp and bp time-) trial staff. Looks like 7 is max with the 'extra' one for the reset after 2hr wears. So potentially 8 in a row? Alittle more powerful then I thought was going to be. Barring you have the MP pool, para, other status ailments, etc. lol. Any thoughts? ^^
http://i49.tinypic.com/inhb1i.jpg

***EDIT***

Just had a thought! No one will probably read this before I answer, but: Does the 2hr reset an already used BP? Going to go test now. x.x I'm duuumb, should have thought of that before.!

***EDIT2***
It does indeed reset the BP timer. So potentially 9 BP in a row. Use Bp, use 2hr, then use last bp after 2hr wears.
http://i50.tinypic.com/20g1ild.jpg

[Badieh]

Ha ha! So it's similar to a Sch's 2h in how it resets Stratagems. Awesome!

[Infidi]

So.... Anyone else find anything else out or anything? :)

[Babekeke]

Anyone tried to see how many Shock Squall can be used , since it has a much shorter charge timer? Or Shock Squall > Thunderbolt > Shock Squall > Thunderbolt etc.

[Arcon]

Anyone tried to see how many Shock Squall can be used , since it has a much shorter charge timer? Or Shock Squall > Thunderbolt > Shock Squall > Thunderbolt etc.

I haven't, but I thought all the charge times were the same? Not that it matters, the Stun from it lasts long enough to make spamming it on timer a bad idea.

[Infidi]

I haven't, but I thought all the charge times were the same? Not that it matters, the Stun from it lasts long enough to make spamming it on timer a bad idea.
Shock Squall is indeed faster then other BP:Wards to have it be similar to the Stun spell. Bit it its still a bad idea, the stun also seems to last longer then a Stun magic spell so be kind of a waste of two hour. If anything spam Chaotic Strike it has chance to stun and doing damage at same time.

[Kysaiana]

It's definitely one of the better new 2hrs. Unfortunately, unless you're soloing or something I doubt this 2hr will ever see real use since Perfect Defense exists. Really the only way most of the new 2hrs would see any use at all is if they didn't share timers with the old ones.

[Babekeke]

It's definitely one of the better new 2hrs. Unfortunately, unless you're soloing or something I doubt this 2hr will ever see real use since Perfect Defense exists. Really the only way most of the new 2hrs would see any use at all is if they didn't share timers with the old ones.

I think 'unless you're soloing' is the key here. This could make it very easy to solo emp weapons etc on smn. With all of the temp items/ISL chests you become a BP spamming machine.

[Infidi]

I think 'unless you're soloing' is the key here. This could make it very easy to solo emp weapons etc on smn. With all of the temp items/ISL chests you become a BP spamming machine.
Yeah, will be crazy with 2hour chests lol. Not caring about red proc ( usually get pretty lucky) I've been soloing my Itza(mothra) scales on SMN. Make killing the big NMs that much faster.

[Babekeke]

The real trick of course, is once you ahve your pop set, kill mobs near the NM pop until you find a ISL, then pop fast, new 2 hour, and when you get low on MP or your 2 hour runs out, /item "Forbidden Key" <st> and start again XD

[Infidi]

The real trick of course, is once you ahve your pop set, kill mobs near the NM pop until you find a ISL, then pop fast, new 2 hour, and when you get low on MP or your 2 hour runs out, /item "Forbidden Key" <st> and start again XD
New macro ahoy!

[Infidi]

Sorry for the necro bump, but Camate edited his post to this in the 2hr thread:


Greetings!

The development team has been hard at work revamping the new special abilities and I would like to give an update on their progress.

The below changes to current and new special abilities will be implemented with this week’s Test Server update.
Recast timer will be reduced from 2 hours to 1 hour (both current and new special abilities)
Recast timers will be separated

In addition to the above, the new special abilities for the below jobs will see their effects adjusted:

Warrior / white mage / black mage / samurai / summoner / blue mage

Also, as we will be making large scale changes to the below jobs' new special abilities, they will be temporarily removed from the Test Server. Once the adjustments and debugging has been completed for the new effects we will re-implement them to the Test Server.

Red mage / thief /paladin / beastmaster / bard / ranger / ninja / dragoon / corsair

*As these adjustments are currently in development, the number of them that we implement may change depending on if further adjustment is necessary or if bugs are discovered.

We are in the process of organizing the specific adjustment information for all jobs and plan on sharing it with you all tomorrow.

We would like to continue to make adjustments to this content based on feedback for the above changes, so please be sure to try everything out on the Test Server once they are implemented,

Boooo, I hope they didn't change it TOO much. :( I thought it was epic as is.

[Babekeke]

You now get full MP upon using the new 2 hour^^

[Infidi]

Really?! It lasts the same amount of time? o.o Wow...that's epic... I mean... I was thinking would have to sub RDM to convert if you wanted to do like: Alex for SMN PT/yourself>>> Convert>>> New 2hr. That's epic. o.o

[Infidi]

Doi, I just refreshed the page. Just saw dev post. :P

[Luvbunny]

I think we are prematurely rejoicing lol, I would proceed with cautions and stop any positive posting on the new 2 hours, please do not share any great finding on official forums let alone we suffer the same fate that befallen to Perfect Defense and Embrava.

[Babekeke]

I don't see it becoming brokenly good, certainly for any current content. It's amazing in Legion, and a party of SMN could take down the adamantoise mob in 30 secs with 6 shivas. But that's it. You then have another half dozen mobs to kill without your SP Ab, and mobs like the behemoth will rape SMNs trying to do BPs, unless of course we can actually PD ourselves then smash out a ton of BPs with new SP.

Even if you can, you'll only kill 3 mobs with a full alliance of SMN. It's a clear, but it's not brilliant.

[Luvbunny]

I think once players found a good strategy that they can exploit to do contents in the shortest amount possible, and with the most safest strategy, we should keep it to ourselves. Embrava was amazing, it was incredibly useful on many things and not just endgame stuffs. But for a long time SE did not even care about it, for a long time there were not that many events where you absolutely need and must have to use Embrava and Perfect Defense, hence they leave it alone. So it is our duty to keep any great news about any jobs combination to ourselves :)

[Arcon]

Embrava was amazing, it was incredibly useful on many things and not just endgame stuffs.

Useful doesn't mean good. Embrava was horrible from a balance perspective, but it turned into a necessary evil after SE started to design events with artificial difficulty that required artificial boosts to compensate, like Embrava or Perfect Defense. This nerf would have been entirely unremarkable if they adjusted the content accordingly, but they pissed on the rug again in that respect.

[Luvbunny]

Useful doesn't mean good. Embrava was horrible from a balance perspective, but it turned into a necessary evil after SE started to design events with artificial difficulty that required artificial boosts to compensate, like Embrava or Perfect Defense. This nerf would have been entirely unremarkable if they adjusted the content accordingly, but they pissed on the rug again in that respect.

It was only horrible after they realize how USEFUL it is for a lot of things. When it was first introduced, not many players understand what it does and how good it can be. A lot of people did not even realize it is even existed, months after its introduction. The same can be said to Perfect Defense, it's been out for awhile and yet no one really raving mad about this until this year. Whenever jobs or abilities become actually useful, and working as intended for players, SE always make sure that it is no longer useful. Case points to Mnk and War adjustment. Another one is RDM. Let's not forget DRG Tp spams, Ranger, Blm's Manaburn, etc...

[Arcon]

It was only horrible after they realize how USEFUL it is for a lot of things.

Correction: it was only horrible after the players realized how useful it is. When the players started abusing them, SE found that players cleared content easier than anticipated, which in turn gave them a reason to design harder events, which then relied on such strategies.


Whenever jobs or abilities become actually useful, and working as intended for players, SE always make sure that it is no longer useful.

How do you know what is "working as intended"? So you're saying there's no useful jobs or abilities out right now?


Case points to Mnk and War adjustment.

So your saying Victory Smite and Ukko's Fury are no longer useful? The nerfs didn't hit them hard at all.


Let's not forget DRG Tp spams, Ranger, Blm's Manaburn, etc...

How exactly did they nerf BLM? You seem to just list every nerf they've ever done, regardless of whether it was deserved or not. Or do you think all of those were undeserved? Do you think it's a good thing that MNK get to spam WS after WS with no cooldown at all?

I feel like you take the anti-nerf approach too literal and in the process lose sight of what's important. Saying all nerfs are always bad is a generalization and very short-sighted. It's important to create some balance, and if that requires nerfs, they are supposed to happen. This one is an appropriate nerf and it would have been a good move by SE. Only they should have nerfed their content as well, but they aren't, which is a bad move by SE. Now we're worse off than before, but don't blame the nerf, blame the content, because that is the mistake right now, not the abilities.

With Embrava and PD being overpowered the content works in a way, but it's not a fun way (if you've ever been SCH or SMN to those, you'll understand). I'd rather they adjusted the content to not require those abilities in the first place. Only it would have been nice if they did that before the nerf (or simultaneously), not a few months later when they slowly realize that people aren't doing their events anymore.

[Luvbunny]

Embrava last 12.5 mnts on the original version, after you apply it, there are TONS of other thing you can do as SCH if you are not on stun lock duty. PD is not gonna last forever. A good SCH is a busy one, tons of other good SCH spells that does stack with WHMs spells can be applied. There are several SMNs bloodpact that can still be applied after PD wore, which will help the party etc. I would assume as SCH and SMN on these events you are not just doing those said two things and then can go iddle AFK for the remainder of the events.... SE should know better when designing their contents not to rely on cheap tp moves and insta AOE death moves that forced us to adopt these new strategies. We both know there are so many things they can do to balance contents. Let's face it, the hardcore will want to plow the new content ASAP and figure out the best way to tackle it. But they are not the 90% of the majority of the players here. Let the 10% have their fun, if they want to play 24/7 and finish it, why shouldn't they. It's their money + time, most of the players are tackling the contents in their own pace anyway, which means take a whole lot longer for them to consume.

BLMs were not directly adjusted so to speak, but ToAU put them on their place. But a lot of jobs were adjusted because they were being too good for their own good. Dark + kraken club strategy is another. If you look at those so called jobs that actually work very well in the hand of capable players, then suddenly become the norm, SE will make sure this will not be the case for long. Whenever you find a good valid strategy to play the game efficiently, you should keep it to yourself.

I don't understand why whenever someone is posting a good strategy to tackle content in the most effective way in the shortest amount of time for maximum result is seen as bad thing. Part of the fun is figuring it out - which jobs can be the most effective, which abilities, which combination. How effective that said jobs in countering the NMs etc. You actually need to understand how certain jobs work to come up with this strategy in the first place. And yes, once it is found, what is hard suddenly becoming doable, what is impossible become possible. How is this being called overpowered or unbalance is beyond me. Sure this means the most effective solutions required jobs XYZ or gears XYZ with the XYZ job abilities in this order - which if you never done it before become limiting and seen as forcing certain jobs to only does XYZ thing on said events and nothing more.

This is A GAME, for fun, not WORK, people should not "work to farm" just to be able to enjoy the rest of the game content. They should be able to log, pick their fun activities (let's face it - all of those are grind, some are more fun than the other, and it's all subjective). Abyssea is grind, every single aspect of this add ons is massive grinds - yet it is the most fun grind of all, to some people, while to others, they hate it with passion. You can say the same about making a relic in dynamis or making a mythic, both are grinding to no end. People should not be limited to myriad of invisible walls. ESPECIALLY when you pay full price monthly to subscribe. When it becomes a free to play content, then they can put up all their walls and ask us to pay if we want more efficient ways to play the game. Trust me, this will force them to create popular sellable contents. Bad game design equal no sales.

[Arcon]

Embrava last 12.5 mnts on the original version, after you apply it, there are TONS of other thing you can do as SCH if you are not on stun lock duty.

Which you'll almost always be, and if you aren't, you'll probably be asked to hold Tabula Rasa at some NPC target, so you can reapply it later. And the tons of things you can do is basically curing. I don't know why SCH liked Embrava, I never felt it was a fix to the job. Sure, you got invited to events, but you didn't really get to play the events when half the time you're locked onto a target to preserve your two-hour. I didn't feel like it was doing SCH any favors. Just like BLMs were happy to suddenly get invited to VW again, but even though you're there, you don't get to play as a BLM, instead you just spam Bio to get hints and then spam certain low-level nukes, without regard for enmity or strategy or efficiency. While BLM is at the event, it's not really a BLM, it's a proc whore. I don't see how that is more fun, and same applies to SCH and to a lesser degree to SMN (at least SMN could do some SMNy things while there for PD, like use Shiva for damage on the turtle, or Shock Squall and Chaotic Strike to stun enemies, keep their MP up with Elemental Siphon, etc.).


I don't understand why whenever someone is posting a good strategy to tackle content in the most effective way in the shortest amount of time for maximum result is seen as bad thing.

The best strategy that was ever conceived has never been touched by SE, not even now, which is to Stun lock an enemy while incredibly buffed melee kill the shit out of it with no (or little) concern for safety, betting on the "kill before we get killed" mentality. This strategy, commonly called a "zerg" is a larger category containing every successful strategy that was employed to kill difficult mobs for years. It was used on many high end mobs back in the game, including most Dynamis bosses, Kirin, Vrtra, AV, and more recently, every VW battle ever, Odin at a certain point, Legion on almost every mob and Nyzul Uncharted for the entire process.


Part of the fun is figuring it out - which jobs can be the most effective, which abilities, which combination. How effective that said jobs in countering the NMs etc. You actually need to understand how certain jobs work to come up with this strategy in the first place. And yes, once it is found, what is hard suddenly becoming doable, what is impossible become possible. How is this being called overpowered or unbalance is beyond me.

Strategies are not called overpowered, only abilities. Embrava was very much overpowered, which is very clear to everyone who has ever read its description. Even some strategies relying on Embrava can still work, because the lack of relevant effects of Embrava can be compensated with additional means (like the Haste of Embrava can also be obtained through BRDs).


This is A GAME, for fun, not WORK, [..]

But that's the thing. Are Embrava zergs really fun for you? Aside from the fact that the SCH does very little outside of it, the general strategy "kill before you get killed" is extremely repetitive to everyone involved, and it's even boring the first time you do it. "Buff to extremes > Spam WS" was never fun for me as a melee. There's no strategy involved (aside from positioning occasionally), no "playing" just button mashing. And Embrava endorsed that kind of strategy, any buff that is too potent does. Hence, why I'd rather SE adjust the content so that it's doable without Embrava, which means they can lower the artificial difficulty and instead add genuine difficulty, that is not overcome with buffs, but with strategy.

[Luvbunny]

So how is a "stun lock" strategy is any better?? You are pretty much doing the same thing, have your stunner on alert duty, stun the crap of the mob while your super buffed melee jobs spam their WS. It's basically a zerg strategy no matter how you call it. Beating CoP missions the old ways are as close as you can say employing strategy and tactics, with some luck thrown in. Was it fun and memorable? very much so. Was it painful to actually find people who are competent enough? indeed, it will give most people nightmares. They could just employ this tactics and creating a bunch of 6-12 people bcnms that drops gears and points. With variety of mobs where you cannot just zerg every single one, but requires some kiting ability and splitting your party to handle mobs, making sure their hps in relative to each other or both mobs will enrage. As it is now, it's zerg everything, stun lock everything, throw pet jobs until the mob died.

There were a couple new BCNMs, Desire of Emptiness and others which is quite fun, but for some reasons never catch on popularity or and not very easy to find people to do. Assaults is actually a fun activities, but they were not designed that well, and you are extremely limited with how many you can do. A bunch of bcnms/assault type of activities that you can do several times daily that require a solid party of six to actually work together as a team would be very fun to do. Where you need to know your jobs to be able to remotely contribute, with a good kiter who understand how to survive (hello RDMs and carby kite summoner lol). Probably a good scholar who knows how to apply regen effectively and ration the cure instead of cureskin bombing :)

[Mirage]

I don't think Arcon is arguing that the "stun lock strategy" is any better, only using it as an example of a strategy that is good and hasn't been nerfed by SE.

Zergs rarely (if ever) are fun. People only confuse the feeling of achievement when getting their drops with "fun", and zergs give them drops more often than other strategies.

Personally, I never minded level capped fights, as they force you to think of other ways than "kill it with superpowered abilities and gear". The only real problem I had with them was the issue of finding people who wanted to help you, because once you were done, there were very few incentives for others to keep doing them, at least when it comes to missions. BCNMs are different because some of them had drops that stayed relevant until endgame and beyond.

I don't mind zergs for some stuff though. Some times, it feels very satisfying to just go crazy and pump out insane damage as fast as you can, but that feeling of awesome is lost if every battle you fight is like that. It's like cocaine, the first time is always much better than all the other times.