Signing Synergy Recipes, and general Cinder suggestions

[Karbuncle]

Hey Square! Everyone who's ever done crafting. I have a proposal.

Right now, The Cinder we get from Synergy is pretty much worthless, I have two proposals. I'll explain them, and go into my reasoning for wanting them or why i believe its a good idea.

---Signing Items.---
Now, Since Signing the items can't become a part of the recipe, as that would exclude the many 8item synergies, I suggest adding an item bought from the Cinder (I forget its name sorry) That, when added to the completed item, Will sign it. For Example, adding something like a Mordant S, (Mordant Sign) which, when combined with the completed item (Chatoyant Staff For example) Would then produced a Signed Item. (Element depending)

I feel we should have this because Signing Items is a fun part of the game for friends, and it leaves your mark, Would be really nice to have, and give a use for the cinder, since its mainly dead now.


---Buy/Charge Fewell With cinder---
This is pretty simple, Should allow us to purchase some Fewell with the cinder. Not enough to actually destroy the, very little, Current available Fewell Market. I Can't give any real balance suggestions, But it would be something to consider.

I feel this would be a good idea, as it would give a disposable item source for the Cinder. Since Cinder caps at about 10,000, Maybe 1 Fewell could be 500 Points. So You could get roughly... 20 Fewell per capped points, Which wouldn't be huge, But would be /something/ to spend the Cinder on.

-------------

Thats it really, Just two things i thought up. Have fun.

[Jerbob]

I like this idea. Even if it only works on newly synergised items and not augmented stuff it would be great. Definitely agree on making cinder more useful as well - I don't like seeing completely useless / unused game mechanics go to waste, and this would remedy this perfectly.

The Synergy Engineer fuel purchase interface could easily be modified to work with cinder - just add a new "Pay with Cinder" option in addition to the no thanks / yes please options. The amount refilled could easily vary with the amount of cinder the player possesses.

[Karbuncle]

Thanks!

Almost hope they add it, If anything, Just the Signing part.

[Eric]

I like the idea ^^. I was actually thinking about this the other day when I made a Chatoyant staff for my friend.

[detlef]

SE: Players would exploit this by making full PTs for maximum cinder and fewell. Also, it conflicts with synergy lore.

[Okipuit]

Good evening,

One of the main reasons why players are feeling that Cinder no longer has any value is due to the fact that the Evolith system is not currently being utilized. As the use of Cinder goes hand in hand with the Evolith system, changing it would have to be directly connected to changes of Evolith as well. Furthermore, by allowing players to spend Cinder to buy or replenish fewell there would be no cost associated with synergy which is something the Development Team would like to avoid.

[Frost]

Good evening,

One of the main reasons why players are feeling that Cinder no longer has any value is due to the fact that the Evolith system is not currently being utilized. As the use of Cinder goes hand in hand with the Evolith system, changing it would have to be directly connected to changes of Evolith as well. Furthermore, by allowing players to spend Cinder to buy or replenish fewell there would be no cost associated with synergy which is something the Development Team would like to avoid.

No offense man, and none to the Dev team as I understand why things were done the way they were at the time. But the Evolith system had tremendous potential, and for once was a proper use of "luck". But the paranoia that gear might be overpowered turned the system as a whole into one face-palm after another.

I'm all for situational gear, but the evolith system took it to a really strange place.

Is there any way you could talk to the Devs and maybe revamp the system to more... "Modern" standards? Making special evoliths drops form otherwise unrewarding NMs would to only revitalize that facet of the game (things w/out family restrictions for instance), but breath live into both synergy and crafting as a whole.

[Ophannus]

Would it be possible to add items that can be bought with Cinder? Like enchanted items that increase a furnace's durability or increases your fewell feeding etc? Kind of like a Guild Point system.

[Washburn]

Or use it to reallocate training points.

[Istabpeople]

Good evening,

One of the main reasons why players are feeling that Cinder no longer has any value is due to the fact that the Evolith system is not currently being utilized. As the use of Cinder goes hand in hand with the Evolith system, changing it would have to be directly connected to changes of Evolith as well. Furthermore, by allowing players to spend Cinder to buy or replenish fewell there would be no cost associated with synergy which is something the Development Team would like to avoid.

Right now I think people would be happy just by simply being able to do something.... anything... with the cinder. While I realize yes, it goes hand in hand with the evolith system, the problem is the evolith system, at least the way it sits now, is completely useless and obsolete. In fact it was pretty much obsolete within a relatively short time after its introduction since it was followed with the level cap increase, abyssea, and all of the new gear associated with them. If you guys were to go so far as to even scrap the entire evolith system as it stand right now, I seriously don't think anyone would care. The system had great potential, but looking back on it with all that has happened since, more or less doomed it to realm of useless content. I think this whole system need to be revisited in light of the new level cap and gear choices. Regardless since the only thing to come from that whole situation that is still in use is synergy, and the fact that this system is thriving and has become more and more important as time goes on... it only seems like common sense to me that the issue of what to do with our cinder gets some attention. Even if it is just the addition of some new and more relevant synergy items.

[Karbuncle]

Good evening,

One of the main reasons why players are feeling that Cinder no longer has any value is due to the fact that the Evolith system is not currently being utilized. As the use of Cinder goes hand in hand with the Evolith system, changing it would have to be directly connected to changes of Evolith as well. Furthermore, by allowing players to spend Cinder to buy or replenish fewell there would be no cost associated with synergy which is something the Development Team would like to avoid.

Thanks for the update ;3

Any chance on Signing Synergy items XD?

[Kristal]

Thanks for the update ;3

Any chance on Signing Synergy items XD?

I would say no to using it AFTER the fact. Then it would just be like giving a label printer to a 6 year old.. soon even your cat would be tagged...

My suggestion would be the following:
* Only possible with portafurnace.
* Operate Furnace gets a new menu option for owners of the furnace: Emboss
** Emboss is only available on non-augmented equipment.
** Emboss opens another menu, allowing owner to select a party member's name.
** Cost for Embossing is 500 cinder per synergy tier of the recipe. (Novice would cost 2000, for example.)
* Failure in completing the recipe still does not recover spent cinders.

Alternatively, a special furnace item with limited charges could be bought for cinder, making the above Emboss option free.

[Kristal]

Good evening,

One of the main reasons why players are feeling that Cinder no longer has any value is due to the fact that the Evolith system is not currently being utilized. As the use of Cinder goes hand in hand with the Evolith system, changing it would have to be directly connected to changes of Evolith as well. Furthermore, by allowing players to spend Cinder to buy or replenish fewell there would be no cost associated with synergy which is something the Development Team would like to avoid.

Any word from the devs of a possible revival of this in Adoulin? I really liked the system of morphing armors, although the überspecialisation of evoliths (in particular the magic ones) made it too cumbersome. It didn't help either that the colors were imbalanced. Instead of 3 colors for personal preferences, we were forced to go with white or get weaker red/black. (Didn't make much sense that white and red colors were swapped either.)
And ofcourse, as others mentioned, it got outdated fast due to level cap rising and far superior gear emerging... They never finished those aern weapons either, I believe.. (only dagger, sword, great sword, staff and polearm)

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Good evening,

One of the main reasons why players are feeling that Cinder no longer has any value is due to the fact that the Evolith system is not currently being utilized. As the use of Cinder goes hand in hand with the Evolith system, changing it would have to be directly connected to changes of Evolith as well. Furthermore, by allowing players to spend Cinder to buy or replenish fewell there would be no cost associated with synergy which is something the Development Team would like to avoid.

So? Basically, Evolith is dead, and by association so is Cinder.

So much stuff is dying in this game due to poor development..

[Mirabelle]

So? Basically, Evolith is dead, and by association so is Cinder.

So much stuff is dying in this game due to poor development..

Well that's been the case for quite some time: Pankration, Chocobo racing, chocobo breeding, MMM, Brenner all died pretty quick deaths as did Evoliths. SE still has trouble seeing the true picture of its community. People want fun battle systems that give good gear at an acceptable progression rate. Events like original Nyzul, Limbus, Einherjar, Dynamis, Salvage were always popular and good examples of events done properly (well maybe not dynamis but I personally enjoyed dyna runs).

I still see countless people in Abyssea, indicating it still is a successful addition to the game even if too many people diss it for being "easy". Sometimes easy things can be fun. It's an MMO. I'd rather spend a few hours killing some modestly challenging NM's with LS mates than most other things in this game.

[detlef]

Question about signing items. Since you can have up to 6 people in PT, how would you deal with who gets to sign it? Would everybody get to sign it? 1 person?

[kingfury]

Good evening,

One of the main reasons why players are feeling that Cinder no longer has any value is due to the fact that the Evolith system is not currently being utilized. As the use of Cinder goes hand in hand with the Evolith system, changing it would have to be directly connected to changes of Evolith as well. Furthermore, by allowing players to spend Cinder to buy or replenish fewell there would be no cost associated with synergy which is something the Development Team would like to avoid.
------------------
As a note to the new Director, just thought he might like to see this old thread regarding breathing new life into Evoliths. It was such a sad thing to watch die. I never even got my cool looking blue-ish white weapon /cry before folks said "Evolith stuff is stupid".


*Save the Evolith System (Adding New Evolith Categories Thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5121-New-Evoliths%21-Tell-SE-what-you-want-Added%21-My-Suggestions-Yours?p=69733#post69733)):

*Proposed New categories (View Larger (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/NewEvoliths-Web.jpg)):
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/NewEvoliths-Web.jpg

[Nala]

Blah this thread again, Evolith was more or less dead on arrival based on the limitations as to what gear could be "etched" and how the size shape and the overall enhancements that were actually applicable to the gear were all pretty sub standard.

You think gear is situational now? try acc vs aquans, defence vs dragons, attack vs bats... now that's situational...

As i've said before the concept of evolith was not bad but its implementation like many contents in this game was half baked, there have been many ideas already furnished as to how we could do evoliths better and as far as i remember we've not got a single response to them yet, hell even a "nope dont want to" (aka balance/ps2 limitations) type response would make me happy at this point.

Anyways about those other things that were mentioned, pokemon was very gaudy people only did(do?) it so they could get the pieces/parts for zenni picture taking, due to a lack of any real PVP in the first place ballista was never huge and by extent brenner, MMM was more or less half baked as well and stopped receiving updates not to mention abyssea exp speed killed its main use anyways.

Chocobo breeding may still serve a point, unless my memory fails me (as it oft proves to...) they mentioned something about chocobo digging revamps in the future (as we all know that could be 2-3 years from now given their update speed or "lol bst pet th gear" style) so breeding a chocobo with the special digging skills might be worth while.

Brining it back to evoliths in closing Kingsfury's ideas are pretty good, as are a few of the other ones that have been thrown around mine included, Dev (derp?) bros really ought to look into it, also side not all things considered with cursed gear abj's should a revitalized evolith system be introduced the only gear that should be excluded from further augmentation is gear that already has the augment tag on it.

For that matter why does some final product af3+2 gear have augment tags on it? would make sense if it was +1 with augmented stats + tag but its a +2 piece... that always bugged me (and don't tell me its because of the set bonus, that's just silly)

[Waldrich]

Evolith System is a useless/worthless system that was made to consume PS2 HD space :)
SE Evil plan to add an excuse about how to remove PS2 subscriptions. inb4 "The game will die 'with PS2'"

[Okipuit]

Greetings!

It seems that there are a good amount of people in all regions asking for revamps to the Evolith system. Currently, this is somewhat low on the priority scale with everything else that is being developed. However, we are planning on a larger scale for Evolith, so instead of just adjustments we thinking more along the lines of a total renewal.

With that said, the Development Team doesn’t want to rush anything so that the system is user friendly and something that can be employed for the long term. Hang in there and we will be sure to update you all once we hear some information down the line. :)

[Istabpeople]

That is encouraging news. I like the idea of a complete renewal to the system since as I said in my previous post, the system had a lot of potential. I think I can speak for much of the player base when I say that we're in no rush for this content so long as the result reflects the time spent on it. We'd rather you take the time and create something great that has long term relevance rather than some rushed easy fix. Just keep us posted. ^^b

[Cybernetic_Empire]

That's good news considering evoliths were dead on arrival when they came out YEARS ago. I just wish it were standard protocol to fix an event or system that is clearly flawed a lot quicker than it normally is.

[Frost]

That was unexpected. Thanks Okipuit.

[Theytak]

Greetings!

It seems that there are a good amount of people in all regions asking for revamps to the Evolith system. Currently, this is somewhat low on the priority scale with everything else that is being developed. However, we are planning on a larger scale for Evolith, so instead of just adjustments we thinking more along the lines of a total renewal.

With that said, the Development Team doesn’t want to rush anything so that the system is user friendly and something that can be employed for the long term. Hang in there and we will be sure to update you all once we hear some information down the line. :)

The devs at least understand the inherent flaw with the evolith system though, right? That having evoliths be entirely categorized as "vs specific mob family" or "specific element of specific type of magic" each of which only fits in a single type of slot with a set amount of some arbitrary value that's only present on a few pieces of gear that are incredibly obnoxious to make... the whole thing is just way to inane. The stats need to not be so overly situational as they were for a reworked new system to be anybetter (ie: they just need to be universal; no "vs Birds: Atk+10" just "Atk+10")

[Sunrider]

Evoliths are woefully complex, stiflingly limited, and worst of all, situational to the point of uselessness. No one wants a Weapon Skill or STR bonus that works only on birds or vermin, no one is interested in working toward Evoliths that result merely in elemental defense bonuses. And if it renders the equipment non-tradeable/non-sellable, then there needs to be an option to scrub the item of Evoliths.

Honestly, the best thing the development team can do for the Evolith system is to almost completely copy XIV's Materia system.

[xbobx]

What about looking at making ammo available through regular Synth. The prices are way too high and this would help to lessen the cost.
Many of us, including myself spent hours upon hours leveling up woodworking, bonecraft and alchemy so we could make our own ammo only to get screwed once level cap increased, new ammo introduced and Synergy taking over your attention.
when you have ammo that costs about 5k to make and sells for 60k there is a problem. No consumables should be synergy only.

[Byrth]

However, we are planning on a larger scale for Evolith, so instead of just adjustments we thinking more along the lines of a total renewal.

If this is released before the game is entirely perfect in every other regard, I will be a sad taru. The Evolith system (like Pankration) looked like it took a tremendous amount of effort to make and was ultimately hamstringed not by the release reception, but by the total lack of continued support and necessary system adjustments.

I'd really rather not see this system be implemented before you fix RDM, DNC, DRG, damage taken/dealt formulas, enmity, etc.

[Kristal]

Evoliths are woefully complex, stiflingly limited, and worst of all, situational to the point of uselessness. No one wants a Weapon Skill or STR bonus that works only on birds or vermin, no one is interested in working toward Evoliths that result merely in elemental defense bonuses. And if it renders the equipment non-tradeable/non-sellable, then there needs to be an option to scrub the item of Evoliths.

Honestly, the best thing the development team can do for the Evolith system is to almost completely copy XIV's Materia system.

I remember camping the evo tauri on the top of Uleguerand Range for a full set of [vs. Dragons: Defense] evoliths for PLD LS member. Got an entire set (+10,+12, +15, +18) of those left in storage as well.

[Raksha]

If this is released before the game is entirely perfect in every other regard, I will be a sad taru. The Evolith system (like Pankration) looked like it took a tremendous amount of effort to make and was ultimately hamstringed not by the release reception, but by the total lack of continued support and necessary system adjustments.

I'd really rather not see this system be implemented before you fix RDM, DNC, DRG, damage taken/dealt formulas, enmity, etc.

This.

Stop trying to resuscitate dead content and focus those energies elsewhere.

[saevel]

SE is so trolling you guys.

And you must know this is in response to something the JP's asked.

[Limecat]

I think the easiest starting improvement that could be made is to remove slot type and element restrictions entirely.

[Tamarsamar]

I think the easiest starting improvement that could be made is to remove slot type and element restrictions entirely.

Hey! I saw your name on the shooting gallery high score! Nice going! :O

On topic, I think Evoliths are just as low-priority for players as they are for the devs. So at least there isn't a disconnect in this particular area of the game.

The OP was, more or less, "Why can't I hold all this Cinder", and if Cinder must be an Evolith-specific resource, I think any synergist would be perfectly happy to wait until Evoliths became at all worth using. If only to see Evoliths worth using.

[Cljader1]

Greetings!

It seems that there are a good amount of people in all regions asking for revamps to the Evolith system. Currently, this is somewhat low on the priority scale with everything else that is being developed. However, we are planning on a larger scale for Evolith, so instead of just adjustments we thinking more along the lines of a total renewal.

With that said, the Development Team doesn’t want to rush anything so that the system is user friendly and something that can be employed for the long term. Hang in there and we will be sure to update you all once we hear some information down the line. :)

What about Aern weapons, can we get a new set of those too craft. The current set of these are woefully out of date, I always considered Aern weapons as the pinnacle of crafting/synergy weaponry, they were like crafted relics. Please revisit these items and restore them to modern glory or provide a new set of Aerns that could heavily compete with the best weapon in the game today. I would also implore you guys to consider adding a set of Aern armor too the synergy/crafting recipe list, that would be great and give crafters much to look for too

[deces]

Greetings!

It seems that there are a good amount of people in all regions asking for revamps to the Evolith system. Currently, this is somewhat low on the priority scale with everything else that is being developed. However, we are planning on a larger scale for Evolith, so instead of just adjustments we thinking more along the lines of a total renewal.

With that said, the Development Team doesn’t want to rush anything so that the system is user friendly and something that can be employed for the long term. Hang in there and we will be sure to update you all once we hear some information down the line. :)

Why should we of ever had to ask?

[Karbuncle]

Serious Karb Moment, Easily offended people are warned.

You know I'm usually pretty pessimistic about some update notes, but good god, show some respect every now and again. This job ain't easy and they're screwed on staff and they can't do anything about it because its the higher ups call. They're workin on the widest variety of content to keep Casuals and Hardcores happy, as well as the few nuts and bolts in between. Despite popular belief, Everyone in the community makes up the community, Shocking right? So while some of you may not like evolith, Doesn't mean you're the majority voice, nor that your opinion is any more valid than the next guys.

Basically, Need to back off every now and again, I know its the Internet and popular mentality is to be a whiny douche whenever humanly possible, But step back and lay off now and again. Even the most pessimistic psycho-path is happy sometimes. Smile more.

Let me explain why though... While Evolith is a failed system, It failed because SE Basically Implemented it then said "Fk It" and moved on. If they eased on the horrific restrictions (I.E Vs One Mob Family; etc), and maybe made a broader range of buffs, It could be a really good system... Think Materia in FF7, or FF14 now. So it could potnetially become an interesting system. It has Potential, and that can't be said for all the adjustment news we get...

I'm sure this company isn't a bunch of drunk monkeys running around with their heads up their ass, They probably have schedules and teams, Times and People devoted to specific Things. So your job Adjustments are probably quite unaffected by an Evolith Update.

I mean, If they update Evolith and its still as crap as before and they just add higher level: "Dagger WeaponSkill: Attack+3" Evolith? Yah, I would mail a Notepad with the words "F**k you" with a box of worthless Pebbles(Evoliuth) straight to them. But for now, I think we need to just hope to god they know why the system failed (Hint: It was way to GD Situational), and they improve/redesign it entirely.

a Great start would be removing the "Vs Family:" and replace it with flat "+Acc, +atk" etc. Would make some of it worth using.

Anyway, My ranting aside... I know stuff is broken in FFXI, stuffs been broken since '02, and with out going in to names, Seriously, the same 2-3 MF's spew their butthurt after every single rep Post... Calm down dudes. As a king of pessimism myself sometimes, I can tell you it ain't good for your health...

and ffs can someone asnwer the Signing a Synergy Item question Q____________Q

P.S - Thanks for the Evolith update big fella~

[sc4500]

I had always envisioned that when they announced the synergy system that it was going to be a system that would make it so we could customized are gear so that we no longer had to armor swap.

Example 1 : Would be you need to take the 2 pieces of armor that you would normally armor swap for let say a weaponskill you then can put +5 strength to weapon skill damage and the armor would be unswappable and unsellable.

Example 2 : If say you got the AF 1 dancers head piece (Dancer's tiara) that got haste samba duration, can add the haste samba effect to any piece of head gear over lv54 like a brego helm and the gear defaults to dancers only job with a brego helm looks and stats with haste samba. would then be unswappable and unsellable since people swap the Dancer's tiara head piece anyways. If want to add the haste samba to new head piece then need do the af 1 quest again.

I know they can not do that because of limitations, but would have been more usefull then what we got.
Instead of a broken and time consuming piece of crap system that I see no way that as is that it will every be good even if they keep updating some armor and weapons in there only a handful people will still ever use it.

[Kristal]

Example 2 : If say you got the AF 1 dancers head piece (Dancer's tiara) that got haste samba duration, can add the haste samba effect to any piece of head gear over lv54 like a brego helm and the gear defaults to dancers only job with a brego helm looks and stats with haste samba.

It would be possible to make a http://gamerescape.com/wiki/images/1/10/Shape_DoubleCircle.gif Samba Duration evolith, but the only limitation evoliths have is size, so it wouldn't be possible to limit evos to particular pieces of armor (unless they expand the number of shapes) and effect would have to be diminished.

They did that with the 2hr recast evos. By equipping the full Ebur Harness set, you could reduce Trance recast by 12 minutes. Maybe even 13 or 14 minutes if they ever added size 7 and 8 2hr evoliths. But each evo was only 2-3 minutes reduction so 2hr recast was pointless to begin with... if you have to wait 2 hours for an ability, a few minutes are not going to make a difference. Every NM will have died/depopped by then...