A Message to the Developers

[Cruentus]

I would just like to point out something to you.

We play this game. We play this game a lot. We know pretty much everything about how it works, and how that applies to us as players. We created the Final Fantasy XI wiki, which is now bursting with information on any given topic regarding this game. We even did some stupid things, like creating third-party programs to get infinite lines in each individual macro, take parsing measurements to see who did what damage when, how much of it, whether it was physical or magical, etc., but this was done so that we could understand the game as well as you developers do. Maybe we know the game even better than you do. We certainly understand what each job in the game is capable of, why that is, and how to improve the ones that are too weak, while balancing the ones that are just cheap as hell.

In short, this is what I am pointing out.

We know this game. We thus know directly how to fix it. You should trust our judgment.

Thanks for reading.

[Randwolf]

For being a large group of experts, we can't seem to agree on anything. Which ones of us do they listen to?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

In light of that OP statement. How are the DEVs, who don't realy have the same kind of experience playing the game, supposed to differentiate between real issues and complainers?

[Vinc]

How can they trust your judgment when 80% of the members posting on the board thinks gear swapping is a crime, Str gear is more beneficial than double/triple attack for tping, leeching is serious business - because experience points parties are endgame - and the majority just lack understanding of basic game mechanics.

From the plethora of suggestions on this board: I think the community team/dev's have a better idea of what needs to be done than any of the members posting here.

[JagerForrester]

Devs have the final say. We are allowed to suggest as much as we want, and the team will listen. That's what this forum was partially for.

[Greatguardian]

How can they trust your judgment when 80% of the members posting on the board thinks gear swapping is a crime, Str gear is more beneficial than double/triple attack for tping, leeching is serious business - because experience points parties are endgame - and the majority just lack understanding of basic game mechanics.

From the plethora of suggestions on this board: I think the community team/dev's have a better idea of what needs to be done than any of the members posting here.

This a thousand times over. Some players may understand the concepts of fStr, pDif, dDex, etc. That doesn't mean more than 0.1% of the people making suggestions about the game know any of these things.

[Mrbeansman]

Parsers aren't illegal tools wish you people would learn this.

[HFX7686]

This sounds like a very, very bad idea.

They should read what players have to say, but they really shouldn't take 95% of the suggestions seriously. And the other 5% should only be considered very carefully and probably only in passing.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

The problem is in that DEVs and MODs are not players, so realy they don't know entirely.

[JagerForrester]

The problem is in that DEVs and MODs are not players, so realy they don't know entirely.

I've always wondered about that. I'm sure they have some form of knowledge of actually playing their own games. I hear rumors some GMs are also real players, but they can't acknowledge they are real GMs.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I've always wondered about that. I'm sure they have some form of knowledge of actually playing their own games. I hear rumors some GMs are also real players, but they can't acknowledge they are real GMs.Like how the DEVs tried to cheat to beat AV and failed?

[Cruentus]

In which case, we should post the names of people who do know what they're talking about instead of just ridiculing me for impressing what I have on the developers.

[Greatguardian]

In which case, we should post the names of people who do know what they're talking about instead of just ridiculing me for impressing what I have on the developers.

k.

Rog.

Discuss.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

In which case, we should post the names of people who do know what they're talking about instead of just ridiculing me for impressing what I have on the developers.There would be nothing to stop people from pointing out some one is "wrong" just because they think they're "right."

[Neisan_Quetz]

k.

Rog.

Discuss.

You forgot Mojo and Cream_Soda. And a few others but those two stand out in my mind atm and I'm tired.

[Greatguardian]

You forgot Mojo and Cream_Soda. And a few others but those two stand out in my mind atm and I'm tired.

Oh I know they do too, I just thought it would be funny to see what sort of havoc Rog could wreak with that sort of power.

[Cruentus]

There would be nothing to stop people from pointing out some one is "wrong" just because they think they're "right."

Clearly you don't understand that this thread is meant to get the good ideas to the developers more quickly by referencing the good players who know what they're talking about. Get the hell off my back already.

[JagerForrester]

Like how the DEVs tried to cheat to beat AV and failed?

Yeah, that video was a joke. Doesn't help their side of this argument. But they still have the final say on how to put something into this game. Better off not making them mad.

[HFX7686]

I think that the developers probably have played the game just enough to have a decent idea of how the game mechanics work.

Especially since they designed the game mechanics.

[Greatguardian]

Clearly you don't understand that this thread is meant to get the good ideas to the developers more quickly by referencing the good players who know what they're talking about. Get the hell off my back already.

Basically anyone from BG would qualify, though. Maybe we should all get special tags by our names.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

It's not speed, it's authenticity. I want to know. How are people deffining the "good" ideas?

[Greatguardian]

It's not speed, it's authenticity. I want to know. How are people deffining the "good" ideas?

Rog made the "Remove Experience Points" thread. I think it's a good idea. Let's roll with it.

[RAIST]

You do realize they reserve the right not to listen to a single thing we say, right?

It's not like we are their only source of inspiration or something.....

Raist

[HFX7686]

It's not speed, it's authenticity. I want to know. How are people deffining the "good" ideas?

It's not hard. The threads with an overwhelming number of supporting posts are probably good ideas. Threads with even a small split or, more noticably, an overwhelming number of dissenting posts are probably not.

[Myrrh]

The threads with an overwhelming number of supporting posts are probably good ideas.

Good lord, no. No no no no.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

The threads with an overwhelming number of supporting posts are probably good ideas.That would make the PS2 limitationa good thing for the game then. lol

[JagerForrester]

The threads with an overwhelming number of supporting posts are probably good ideas. Threads with even a small split or, more noticably, an overwhelming number of dissenting posts are probably not.

That's just popularity. I bet most of the ideas that they will consider will be found via dev tags, good titles, and topics they can work with.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

That's just popularity. I bet most of the ideas that they will considered will be found via dev tags, good titles, and topics they can work with.But then as I have mentioned before, what makes a DEV tag the right one to use? What's to stop people from using DEV tags for attention grabbing?

[Kazen]

Don't forget typed in a manner which is both coherent and understandable. Some of the threads I've read posted on these forums make me feel like I'm on the verge of having an aneurysm.

[rog]

k.

Rog.

Discuss.
That idiot doesn't know anything, except how to spam forums with useless garbage.

[Greatguardian]

But then as I have mentioned before, what makes a DEV tag the right one to use? What's to stop people from using DEV tags for attention grabbing?

This has already happened. It didn't really end well. Tags were admin-edited out of the thread at least.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

This has already happened. It didn't really end well. Tags were admin-edited out of the thread at least.At least they're somewhat on top of it. lol

[Cruentus]

That's why we post names, Tsukino_Kaji.

Seoha, Gamiina, Raelia, RaenRyong, Selzak, Kagato, and Cream_Soda are good at this kind of thing.

Now, regarding all the posts I missed while getting these names, get the hell back on topic already. God, I wish this forum had a private messaging system. Then I wouldn't have to deal with all this crap from you guys.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Everything I pointed out is a valid concern.

God, I wish this forum had a private messaging system.Except it's not that kind of forum.

[Randwolf]

Since we're having an election, I would like to nominate Sarah Palin. I don't like her but she makes life interesting.

I might be wrong. But, probably not. This thread will devolve into chaos when people realize you are suggesting that people create a pool of individuals who S/E should pay more attention to.

[Greatguardian]

I'll nominate myself since I meet all the qualifications (The qualifications are knowing game mechanics right? Right. Okay).

[Hoshi]

We may know the mechanics of FFXI but that doesn't mean we know anything about game design. People have great ideas all the time but some of them are probably too difficult to implement.

[CrystalWeapon]

I sincerly hope they don't take a majority of these posts serriously. Several of them are bored people trying to get a rise out of others because they have nothing better to do with their time since xi is down. Another decent chunk of the posts are joke posts formatted as serrious ones and / or posts too rediculous to be taken serriously. Then there are the rare few that are actually feasible, but after reading through all the spam / joke / troll / rediculous posts it's hard not to have a headache.

I don't doubt that there are some people making suggesting that do know what they're talking about, but to say that we all know what we're talking about is a bit much. Some days I feel bad for the mods having to read through everything especially the 50+ page topics that end up as mostly just back and forths with trolls, but I trust that they know what ideas to listen to and what to ignore.

[Laraul]

I would just like to point out something to you.

We play this game. We play this game a lot. We know pretty much everything about how it works, and how that applies to us as players. We created the Final Fantasy XI wiki, which is now bursting with information on any given topic regarding this game. We even did some stupid things, like creating third-party programs to get infinite lines in each individual macro, take parsing measurements to see who did what damage when, how much of it, whether it was physical or magical, etc., but this was done so that we could understand the game as well as you developers do. Maybe we know the game even better than you do. We certainly understand what each job in the game is capable of, why that is, and how to improve the ones that are too weak, while balancing the ones that are just cheap as hell.

In short, this is what I am pointing out.

We know this game. We thus know directly how to fix it. You should trust our judgment.

Thanks for reading.


No... you... nor anyone else who "thinks they know all about the game" know nothing. Those who knew something would have the wisdom not to make such a statement in the first place.

[HFX7686]

Good lord, no. No no no no.

Yes, yes, I know. I probably should have amended that to supporting posts from good players.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Ok, then who's the judge? Peirs are not an option as it adds bias.

[Avina]

Last I checked, people have been pretty satisfied with the recent stuff SE has been putting into the game, so I think the plea to "listen to the players more" is kinda misplaced because... well... they are kinda already doing a good job at it.

[Nu-Hir]

It's not speed, it's authenticity. I want to know. How are people deffining the "good" ideas?

Here's a list of things to consider when defining a good idea:

1. Proper spelling
2. Proper punctuation
3. Lack of use of internet shorthand (rly, u, 2, OMGBBQWTFLOL)
4. Writing in complete sentences
5. Poster has at least a Master's Degree from an accredited university
6. $50
7. Three marbles, a four leaf clover, and a bit of string
8. Post looks like it wasn't made by a five year old and is comprehensible and to the point

Some of those suggestions might not be needed (I recommend the $50 brib.... entry fee, and demand a cut of the action), but overall, 8 should be a given.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

But the internet encourages the opposite of 1, 2 and 8 more then anything. lol

[Nu-Hir]

You violated rule three. You do not have a good idea.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

You violated rule three. You do not have a good idea.I chose to disbelieve 3, since it was comentary.

[Kazen]

You have more errors in that post than the use of "lol".

[Tsukino_Kaji]

You have more errors in that post than the use of "lol".The english language promotes errors.

[NightDagger]

Who is to say that the DEV's are not players? I have seen on here a few times not the DEV stating something is a good idea & he has also had trouble with it. This implies that they DO play the game. Just like the GM's. most of them did play the game, when it was released, this has changed a bit over the years but for the most part I am sure that they chose a DEV team that have accomplished alot in game & have personal experience.

[rog]

Who is to say that the DEV's are not players? I have seen on here a few times not the DEV stating something is a good idea & he has also had trouble with it. This implies that they DO play the game. Just like the GM's. most of them did play the game, when it was released, this has changed a bit over the years but for the most part I am sure that they chose a DEV team that have accomplished alot in game & have personal experience.
The new dev team does seem to play. It was pretty obvious the old team did not.

[Rambus]

Who is to say that the DEV's are not players? I have seen on here a few times not the DEV stating something is a good idea & he has also had trouble with it. This implies that they DO play the game. Just like the GM's. most of them did play the game, when it was released, this has changed a bit over the years but for the most part I am sure that they chose a DEV team that have accomplished alot in game & have personal experience.

I do not believe it, if they did I want to know why they made the PW staff and mythic staffs at 75 underperform HQ elemental staff.

[Vivik]

Here's a list of things to consider when defining a good idea:

1. Proper spelling
2. Proper punctuation
3. Lack of use of internet shorthand (rly, u, 2, OMGBBQWTFLOL)
4. Writing in complete sentences
5. Poster has at least a Master's Degree from an accredited university
6. $50
7. Three marbles, a four leaf clover, and a bit of string
8. Post looks like it wasn't made by a five year old and is comprehensible and to the point

Some of those suggestions might not be needed (I recommend the $50 brib.... entry fee, and demand a cut of the action), but overall, 8 should be a given.

I'm going to go ahead and replace the requirements for number 7 to an avocado, a snorkel and an icepick.
The rest can stay.

[Cruentus]

Ugh, never mind. The whole lot of you are hopeless.

[Strife]

Ugh, never mind. The whole lot of you are hopeless.

I disagree & therein lies the problem.