Shaper's Shawl - Why?

[Godofgods]

Shaper's Shawl Rare Ex
[Back] All Races
DEF:1 Increases synthesis skill gain rate
LV 1 All Jobs


I'm curious to know what you where thinking when you created this item. More specifically, how to acquire it.

First real synthesis skill+ equip, and you make it obtainable from the only 'craft' in the game that does not use actual synthesis... 0.o

[cidbahamut]

Why?
Because SE loves awful game design, that's why.

[Kristal]

Shaper's Shawl Rare Ex
[Back] All Races
DEF:1 Increases synthesis skill gain rate
LV 1 All Jobs


I'm curious to know what you where thinking when you created this item. More specifically, how to acquire it.

First real synthesis skill+ equip, and you make it obtainable from the only 'craft' in the game that does not use actual synthesis... 0.o

So? It appears to me you totally overlooked the fact that SE added a real synthesis skill gain rate item in the first place...
Who cares it's found by high level fishing.

I'd be more upset if it required 110 goldsmithing. I can level fishing, but with my woodworking near-cap I can't level goldsmithing that high. (The shawl would require 70 clothcrafting to make, but a lvl 110 goldsmithing recipe to craft the 'pearl' gutted from the fish into a brooch or something.)

And it doesn't even matter much either.. crafting is mostly dead barring a few consumables.. It's just a requirement for synergy now.

[cidbahamut]

Who cares it's found by high level fishing.


That's the thing though, it isn't found by high level fishing, it's found by Ebisu fishing and using obnoxiously difficult to obtain exclusive bait. The item in question is also R/E so it's not like you can just let other people fish it up and then buy it off the AH.

Seriously, do a modicum of research before you casually brush aside legitimate concerns people bring up.

[Godofgods]

Who cares it's found by high level fishing.

Crafters like me that hate fishing.

[wish12oz]

It's not even the Ebisu part that is a problem. Ebsiu and fishing is easy, lots of people have them and do it. The problem comes from the fact that Matsuya are overly obnoxious to catch. If you spend all day with your Ebisu catching fish to hand in for bait to catch Matsuya with, then the next day go fish Matsuya, you'll catch maybe 5 of them. So you lose 2 days of fishing, which would of netted you between 3 and 9 mil very easily, for somewhere between 5 and 10 of the fish that the cape comes from. If Matsuya don't sell for 1mil+ each, no one will catch them, unless they themselves want the cape.

Fishing is already the easiest craft to make gil with, adding a new high profile fish is perfectly fine with me (since it doesn't require minnows or sinking minnows.) But lets be honest, no one is going to bother with this fish unless it nets more income than what fishers are already making, since its such a giant pain in the butt compared to the current fish you can catch for way less effort. This is the real problem, the fact that for fishers to break even you're going to have to pay 1m+ per fish, and the item is probably 1% drop rate, if that.

If anyone on Odin wants some Matsuya, feel free to send me a tell. Just know I won't be catching them unless I have a buyer lined up for every fish I pull out of the water before I pull them up, and I'm sure most other fishers feel the same way.

[Kristal]

That's the thing though, it isn't found by high level fishing, it's found by Ebisu fishing and using obnoxiously difficult to obtain exclusive bait. The item in question is also R/E so it's not like you can just let other people fish it up and then buy it off the AH.

Seriously, do a modicum of research before you casually brush aside legitimate concerns people bring up.

I know what is needed for it.
I know it's the holy grail (relic) of crafting and therefore should not be available for 50 gil at the nearest fruit stand.
I know it's not an item I will get in any forseeable future, unless skill up fishing and I finish that lushang already.
I know that I'll have all my crafts capped long before I obtain this, and it will be a worthless piece of -1 inventory then.

If anything, I'm disappointed that it doesn't (seem to) boost crafting. No +skill, no -fail, no +hq chance.

How would YOU have made this shawl available?

[Godofgods]

How would YOU have made this shawl available?

Since its a crafting skill+ piece, how about..... crafting? 0.0

Or even an nm thats only pop-able through a special crafted items.
Heck id rather race my two legs versus a chocobo rather then fishing...

[Sotek]

This should have been a GPs item. Oh look, that was hard.

Honestly, I imagine the only reason its fishing is because the devs took a look at the census data and went "People don't have 110 crafting yet, but they have 110 fishing", and that was all the broken logic they needed to do this.

On the plus side at least this is a Lv.1 item, so you don't need to level your mules to 70 just to equip it like those (still incomplete) crafting torques they added.

[Kristal]

Since its a crafting skill+ piece, how about..... crafting? 0.0

Or even an nm thats only pop-able through a special crafted items.
Heck id rather race my two legs versus a chocobo rather then fishing...

It can't be synthesized because then the other crafts are f'ed and forced to pay a fortune.
And what do NMs have to do with crafting?

[Sarick]

And it doesn't even matter much either.. crafting is mostly dead barring a few consumables.. It's just a requirement for synergy now.

Dead? Are you serious?

Expert 110 > Master 120 > Grandmaster 130 > Legend 140 > Transcender 150.

Enough with this, the game levels where increased from 75 too 99. What makes you think crafts will stay at 110? :rolleyes: It's obvious there are items that we can't craft yet that are in the game now as temps. When/if these crafts are increased this item could mean the difference of a few million gil to raise a skill 1 point.

Come on, do you seriously think they'll leave the craft levels at expert 110? Synergy still needs people with high skills to work. If those skills are increased you can bet new synergy recipes will become available for them. The higher requirements will need players to hit their crafts and reach higher skill levels to make them. Any serious crafter skilling up at higher levels will need this item.

The devs made a statement in the interview about the expansion private zones to farm special items. Some of these items could be used to create things we only dream about outside limited events/zones.

This cape is going to be very very popular in the near future MARK MY WORDS disbeliever.
Let's see if a rep says "we have no plans to increase crafting, They can't announce that they are YET but, they can say they aren't. :cool:

[wish12oz]

How would YOU have made this shawl available?

I would of given it to Soryu/Sekiryu/Kokuryu instead of Matsuya. (not Hakuryu)

[Daniel_Hatcher]

How would YOU have made this shawl available?

In new Grounds of Valor areas along with the remaining +2 craft necks, at least then it's open to EVERYBODY and follows a similar style, as it stands it's very poorly done.

It would have been smarter to make this item have the following stats:


Shaper's Shawl [Back]
Def: 1 Increases chance of fishing up large prey.

That way it's a must have for fishermen who levelled that high already, instead of increasing skill up of crafts of which has no effect on fishing.

[Kristal]

In the future, perhaps... but that gives us plenty of time to level up fishing and get the cape :D

[Godofgods]

It can't be synthesized because then the other crafts are f'ed and forced to pay a fortune.
that makes no sence...


And what do NMs have to do with crafting?

Man, ppl have short memories...
Remember Hakutaku? no? Remember the o-hat that he dropped?
His pop item was a Hakutaku Eye Cluster. You had to farm the mets and CRAFT the pop item.

[Alistaire]

Why?
Because SE love awful game design, that's why.

I think it has to do with why we even got an increase in the skill cap. The conversation @ SE probably went in favor of not ever boosting it till someone said "what if we boost it, but make it 100x as hard as the first 100 skill to keep people playing?"

[Kristal]

that makes no sense...
If it's a pure synthesis for a particular craft, then only those crafters benefit from the overwhelming demand.


Man, ppl have short memories...
Remember Hakutaku? no? Remember the o-hat that he dropped?
His pop item was a Hakutaku Eye Cluster. You had to farm the mets and CRAFT the pop item.

You need to CRAFT bait or lures to catch Cave Cherax or Sea Zombie, which are gutted by Zaldon, giving you Drill Calamari or Dwarf Pugils to use as bait to catch Matsya which Zaldon can gut for a chance at the Shaper's Shawl.

And unlike the eye cluster that could only be crafted by high level alchemists (with a 100% loss on fail on this QUEST synth), the bait for the Tier 1 lvl 100 fish is craftable by anyone, and then fishable by anyone that put up with skilling up fishing.

[Godofgods]

You need to CRAFT bait or lures to catch Cave Cherax or Sea Zombie, which are gutted by Zaldon, giving you Drill Calamari or Dwarf Pugils to use as bait to catch Matsya which Zaldon can gut for a chance at the Shaper's Shawl.

Oh yea! That sounds fun!! -_-

[Sotek]

Seriously. Guild Points. Problem solved. Every craft can make their own synths to work towards it and it would be simple, and more importantly, rewarding. Sticking it around the 60s where skill up declines anyway and people have a nice little reward for leveling a craft which will help them go further and well as help them with any future subcrafts. Instead we have act three in the developers continuing vendetta to give crafts the middle finger.

There is absolutely no reason this shouldn't have been a Guild Points item unless some of you think they're hard to obtain in which case you're seriously deluded. I took a craft from 1-80ish and made enough points along the way to obtain both the gear options as well as the item for the Synergy stall and that's pretty much everything you need from GPs at the moment. Something like 10,000 GPs would take three days max to obtain. GPs were designed to let crafts obtain crafting gear, this cape (and the torques) is crafting gear. Sticking this under Fishing is just a slap in the face to anyone who hasn't got a craft to 110 yet, and based off the census, that's everyone who leveled a craft.

[Okipuit]

Good morning fishers,

The Shaper’s Shawl was set to be a difficult to obtain reward on par with the rewards that could be obtained by defeating a powerful notorious monster and we do not have any plans of easing the difficulty. For that reason, there are no plans to obtain this item through any content other than "Inside the Belly".

[Phafi]

How would YOU have made this shawl available?

Make it easier to get Drill Calamary and Dwarf Pugils so that you haven't used 2/3 of your fish for the day before you even get to attempt Matsya..?

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Good morning fishers,

The Shaper’s Shawl was set to be a difficult to obtain reward on par with the rewards that could be obtained by defeating a powerful notorious monster and we do not have any plans of easing the difficulty. For that reason, there are no plans to obtain this item through any content other than "Inside the Belly".

Powerful NM's require simply claiming and beating them, this requires getting fishing to 110, an ebisu rod, rare/ex bait in the bucket loads and a LOAD of luck... How is that even close?

[Ragni]

Fishers finally got something good and you ppl complaining? Stop and go farm damn gils and buy Matsya or skill up fishing! There was only gugs and liks and now they got Matsya ^^

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Fishers finally got something good and you ppl complaining? Stop and go farm damn gils and buy Matsya or skill up fishing! There was only gugs and liks and now they got Matsya ^^

The fish are 400k+, Fishing is the hardest skill to level (mine is 110 so I know), You also need an Ebisu rod so anyone that levelled fishing or spent millions of gil (instead of spending it on the items needed for 100~110) in order to level another craft 100~110 is an idiot, as is SE for doing this.

PS. fishers have had something good for ages, Fishing is probably the most profitable craft other than goldsmithing. I'd sooner they made other crafts profitable.

[Kari]

Fishers finally got something good and you ppl complaining? Stop and go farm damn gils and buy Matsya or skill up fishing! There was only gugs and liks and now they got Matsya ^^

I'd hardly call it "something good".

I'd rather spend my time fishing Hakuryus.
At least I'm guaranteed money, and it doesn't take nearly as much effort.

[Ragni]

Lol @ Kari

[Kaisha]

Sometimes I wonder why these things weren't implemented as an intentional means of weeding out fishbotters.

[Sotek]

A 1~2% chance on getting this cape from a fish which is looking to cost upwards of 1M gil? Nice going.

You know what crafters really wanted? Improved skill up rates. Giving us that, like this, is nothing short of insulting. I'm sorry but you don't make 110 cost literally billions of gil (and give it very little payoffs at that) then give us some hope with an item like this, only to implement it in possibly the worst way imaginable.

I swear, I can't remember the last time I saw a crafting related update and actually felt happy for it. I guess the crafting stalls are the closest, but I'm still pretty peeved that a 15k GPs item was allowed to easily trump the 100k/150k items. Those retarded Torques certainly did nothing but piss me off, when did crafting become about farming chests in a zone for weeks, fishing and making worthless gear that only might become good through Synergy? Seriously, this is ridiculous.

[Zuidar]

Good morning fishers,

The Shaper’s Shawl was set to be a difficult to obtain reward on par with the rewards that could be obtained by defeating a powerful notorious monster and we do not have any plans of easing the difficulty. For that reason, there are no plans to obtain this item through any content other than "Inside the Belly".

To me, I think one of the BIG things about this cape was that it can't be deliverable to the same-account characters that I am worried about and wonder why you can't even deliver to the mules on that same account. I've always wondered after seeing a cape from a craft that isn't synthesis and has nothing to do with it.

[Xerius]

Good morning fishers,

The Shaper’s Shawl was set to be a difficult to obtain reward on par with the rewards that could be obtained by defeating a powerful notorious monster and we do not have any plans of easing the difficulty. For that reason, there are no plans to obtain this item through any content other than "Inside the Belly".

I would agree if this if it were not for one thing "...obtain reward on par with the rewards that could be obtained by defeating a powerful notorious monster..." Tell me what "Powerful Notorious Monster" drops crafting related gear. This is not on par with Legion gear or Neo-Nyzul gear. This is crafting gear, those are battle gear. You should not be wearing this cape to battle therefore it is not "on par" with that gear and if you ask me there should be a difference between obtaining endgame gear and obtaining crafting gear and this whole million-sided-dice mentality that the dev's have developed recently is really starting to get old. I'm not saying that the best gear should be dropping for everyone, everytime 16 gather for an event but it should be dropping to someone every time. I love this game a lot, and I hate to see it on the slippery slope it's dancing on.

[Vagrua]

Those retarded Torques certainly did nothing but piss me off, when did crafting become about farming chests in a zone for weeks, fishing and making worthless gear that only might become good through Synergy? Seriously, this is ridiculous.

I actually wouldn't mind farming a zone for weeks at a chance to receive the cape over the way it is now. I'm not saying I approve of them using chests to receive crafting items, but at least they made the cape level 1 instead of 70+ like the torques were. Crafters shouldn't have to level a job to improve their crafting imo. I would rather them have just increased the quantity of the items to be turned in to receive guild points and added them to the spending menu, but this is SE we're talking about.

[Karbuncle]

Powerful NM's require simply claiming and beating them, this requires getting fishing to 110, an ebisu rod, rare/ex bait in the bucket loads and a LOAD of luck... How is that even close?

+100000000000000000000000000


Fishers finally got something good and you ppl complaining? Stop and go farm damn gils and buy Matsya or skill up fishing! There was only gugs and liks and now they got Matsya ^^

Are you trolling? Fishing is one of them most profitable Crafts in the game at Cap. If not the most profitable, at least the most stable and secure income craft of all of them combined. Just next to Cooking.

Fishing is a treasure trove of easy gil, Hardest part to it, like any craft, Is capping it. Problem is there's a lot of restriction on fishing, making it hard to skill up.

I think the mistake was making the drop R/EX, If it was just R, It could be sold, and no one would be complaining, As it is now, You either have to be 30+ To do Inside the Belly, buying the fish, or 110+ With a lot of time and luck to get it yourself.

[Mooshywooshy]

I like it. Keepin the JP feel of the game alive! You've seen the Star Ocean 4 achievements, you know what im talkin about.

[SpankWustler]

I think the mistake was making the drop R/EX, If it was just R, It could be sold, and no one would be complaining, As it is now, You either have to be 30+ To do Inside the Belly, buying the fish, or 110+ With a lot of time and luck to get it yourself.

This.

Plus, fishermen would have the option of trying their own luck with the quest to sell the Shapely Shaper's Salmon Shaped Shawl or just selling the fish. One option would probably be much better than the other after about two weeks, but options are still cool.

[Kristal]

A 1~2% chance on getting this cape from a fish which is looking to cost upwards of 1M gil? Nice going.

That's just the rush price. Price should stabilize once the ROI is known.
This is a powerfull item that will save you a LOT of gil. Don't expect it to be cheap or easy to get.
It's probably going to end up on par with the cost for buying a relic.

[wish12oz]

That's just the rush price. Price should stabilize once the ROI is known.
This is a powerfull item that will save you a LOT of gil. Don't expect it to be cheap or easy to get.
It's probably going to end up on par with the cost for buying a relic.

Fishing is an easy 2mil/day from NPCs, the price of Matsuya will not drop below "average catchable rate per day divided by 2mil" or no one will catch them. It's basically a price control, if no one wants to pay more than 100k per matsuya, no one will fish matsuya, simple as that.

Average catchable rate is probably around 5-10 btw.

[Iceni]

Matsya does not require level 110 fishing skill nor an Ebisu. It's more on the order of the way fishing Liks and Gugrusaurus were a handful of years ago before the fishing rings came into being. Back then, you had to rely solely on Mooching guild key item and Dwarf Pugils/Drill Calamaries. Completing the Ebisu quest was indeed daunting once upon a time. I would not recommend fishing Matsya without an Ebisu because the break rate is high on Lushang thus wasting the time it took to obtain the baits.

I'm not sure if it is still possible fishing Matsya with Robber Rig. I did get Matsya bites on Robber Rig and Lushang years ago as it is the only fish that could have broken my Lushang back then. I swore I'd get an Ebisu first before trying to fish Matsya again. Robber Rigs are not cheap. I've had an Ebisu for a few years now, but never went back to fishing Matsya because more profitable legendary fish were added to take up my time.

I am raising fishing skill and opening the Inside the Belly Quest for a few of my crafting mules to take advantage of skilling other main and sub crafts. It's much more quicker to skill fishing from 0-to-30 with Pelican Ring and years of fishing know how. The mules already have at least level 10 fishing skill from the time they were used to help catch Moat Carp for the Lushang Rod.

If you never liked fishing in FFXI, then of course you will resent not being able to get Matsya cheaply or understand how much easier it is now to raise fishing. Fishing took about as long to cap as it did capping chocobo digging skills or getting to level 75 pre-Abbysea old school style.

[Godofgods]

Good morning fishers,

The Shaper’s Shawl was set to be a difficult to obtain reward on par with the rewards that could be obtained by defeating a powerful notorious monster and we do not have any plans of easing the difficulty. For that reason, there are no plans to obtain this item through any content other than "Inside the Belly".

Let me first just say... OMG! After like 100 different thread topics, the Dev's actually responded to one of mine! (now if they would just take the helping tarus thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/4662-Give-a-taru-a-leg-up!!)to heart)




I don't even know what to say. Fishers have waited years for Matsya to be implemented in the "Inside the Belly" quest, and when it finally does players, most who haven't even picked up a fishing rod, feel the need to complain. Matsya finally got a reward worth doing in my opinion, and I see nothing wrong with it being for leveling other crafts faster.
Well i sure do.

I'm not complaining that fishers have something, just that this equipment is only obtainable by fishing. Fishing is not a traditional craft. And the traditional crafting skill+ item should be obtained by traditional crafts or guilds. Fishing is as much of a traditional craft as synergy is. Both may have their uses, and their money making potential, but their not traditional crafts. Hence the reason fishing and synergy skill caps are not related to traditional crafts caps.

As for ppl saying 'just go fish yourself or buy them.' That doesn't quite work. Their are a lot of crafters, including myself, that really hate fishing. So to that group, this item is just insulting. But to those that have no problem with it, leveling fishing from 1-100 or 110 and getting a Lu shang/ebshu just to get a crafting item is ludicrous. The time it would take to do that i could cap all traditional craft on all my mules faster then that.
Along the same line, buying them is just as insane. Prices on my server are starting at 1 mill per fish. Seriously? Were supposed to spend 5-10-20-50-100 mill to get a crafting item have a chance at getting a crafting item. I can tell you for sure, that iv capped all my crafts for cheaper then that.

Really, the only ppl this item is helping are those that already have high level fishing and ebshu. Not because they need the crafting item, but because they can sell the fish to the 'perfectionists' at such insanely high prices. (and wouldn't want to forget the gill buyers')

Id be willing to bet that noone saw this item and suddenly thought to themselves 'oh wow, i have to level all my crafts now!' For the most part the ppl that would be most interested in this item are those that already have most if not all their crafts leveled. That being said, if you already have most of it done, your not going to want to spend an eternity of time or money on an item that will provide minimal use.

[Sotek]

That's just the rush price. Price should stabilize once the ROI is known.
This is a powerfull item that will save you a LOT of gil. Don't expect it to be cheap or easy to get.
It's probably going to end up on par with the cost for buying a relic.

Care to post all those tests proving that this is a powerful item? What I expect from SE is nothing more than +1% skill up rate, or placebo. That's not necessarily bad, but it is given how you obtain this. Even if this was powerful though, it wouldn't be worth it.

I highly doubt this item will ever be worth the base cost of obtaining it. They wont fix that by making it so you can sell it either, after the initial buzz fishers wouldn't bother with the item and nobody would be able to obtain one short of leveling Fishing themselves, which is stupid. It would be infinitely more profitable for Fishers just to sell the fish than the cape itself, since the cape is going to have to be sold at fairly high amounts to ever make it worthwhile and this cape probably isn't worth that cost and wasting money on these fish only to go 0/43 is retarded.

If they made this a GP item like I've said, we'd have a nice little placebo item and everyone would likely be thanking the developers right now. As it is, I doubt anyone will ever really get any tests done on this (I expect the first will make note of direction) and it'll remain a waste of time and more importantly for Fishing, a waste of potential on Matsya.

Even if this does significantly improve your skill up rate, you're looking at ~25M to obtain one at the moment (800k~1M on my server at the moment, if anything it's closer to 50M), if people get them and show it does something significant, then demand for this fish is only going to increase and the price will never fall significantly. Likening it to a Relic is beyond stupid, sorry. I was unaware completed Relics dropped off single NMs, which this item has been compared to by the developers, no less. At best you can compare this to Dring, and even then, having a piece of gear to help with skill up be this rare is a pants-on-head retarded.

Stick this on Guild Points and give Fishers something worthwhile for Matsya. Problem solved and everyone is happy. Even if the cape is amazing, GPs wouldn't alienate crafters and you can easily work out a Gil:GPs value and estimate the time it would take to obtain it. If they slapped it with 1M GPs I'd have found "We wanted to make it as rare as a NM drop" far more acceptable than I do with this idiotic Fishing bullcrap.

[Godofgods]

I'm angry that Mythic Weapons are difficult.
The problem with the Shaper's Shawl has nothing to do with being difficult in my view. Its problem is that its so illogical.
- Its a traditional crafting skill+ item, not obtainable through crafting/guild.
- Buying would be a waste. At 1 mill a fish, the cost to maybe obtain the item would be incredibly more then the cost of skilling a craft to cap normally.

[Theytak]

Good morning fishers,

The Shaper’s Shawl was set to be a difficult to obtain reward on par with the rewards that could be obtained by defeating a powerful notorious monster and we do not have any plans of easing the difficulty. For that reason, there are no plans to obtain this item through any content other than "Inside the Belly".

So, basically, the dev's are playing the "This is the way we want it, and we don't care what you think" card. That's totally unacceptable. The artificial difficulty here is several orders of magnitude more greater than that of the artificial difficulty of log watch. It doesn't take an incredibly large amount of time to get up to the end tier of VW, and once you're there, you can spam the NM you want repeatedly, for hours on end, to get your shot at that 1~5% drop rate. The time investment is there, but it's not even remotely on par with the time investment require to catch this fish, and it really stands as a very bad insult to every crafter who has no interest in fishing that one of the most useful items for synth-crafting ever to be added to the game would come from one of the skills that DOESN'T USE SYNTHESIS.

I love fishing, I really do, but fishing is separate from crafting, and it should not be the source of this cape. It's utterly ridiculous on so many different levels, and there's absolutely no way this should be acceptable.

[Shadax]

I'm normally a defender of any sort of improvements to the game but this is just insulting to crafters. Sorry, Devs, but you went about implementing this in the most ass-backwards way possible. I would rather you just remove the item from the game than pretend that this is even remotely possible for even above-average players. Don't forget your friends, family and work? I have to laugh whenever I read that and think about items like this.

[cRhyme]

well, while everyone says this is unattainable, i'll be fishing to 30, unlocking Inside the Belly and hawking for Matsyas in the meantime...

[detlef]

well, while everyone says this is unattainable, i'll be fishing to 30, unlocking Inside the Belly and hawking for Matsyas in the meantime...As long as you are okay paying 1m per fish, I think everybody will be happy.

[Godofgods]

As long as you are okay paying 1m per fish, I think everybody will be happy.

I think This (http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots/66818) kinda proves my point well on buying fish at 1 mill each. He went 1/88. If he had bought them, he would of spent 88 mill on a single crafting equip. At what point would that be financially viable? Iv capped al my craft for LOT less then that...

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I think This (http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots/66818) kinda proves my point well on buying fish at 1 mill each. He went 1/88. If he had bought them, he would of spent 88 mill on a single crafting equip. At what point would that be financially viable? Iv capped al my craft for LOT less then that...

It's not feasible, unfortunately there will be those people that will think it is using the basis of it's minute increase to skillup as a reasoning.

You could level goldsmithing quite high with 88 million and then profit of the rewards to go the rest of the way.

[Kristal]

Care to post all those tests proving that this is a powerful item? What I expect from SE is nothing more than +1% skill up rate, or placebo. That's not necessarily bad, but it is given how you obtain this. Even if this was powerful though, it wouldn't be worth it.

It boosts skillup rates, which is going to save money. That's why it's powerfull. That's why everyone wants it.

SE could still make a weaker NQ version for 1M GP available, but for now you just have to live with the fact you can't buy it off the AH.

[Theytak]

It boosts skillup rates, which is going to save money. That's why it's powerfull. That's why everyone wants it.

SE could still make a weaker NQ version for 1M GP available, but for now you just have to live with the fact you can't buy it off the AH.

Except that the difficulty to acquire, and relative cost of Matsya will completely dwarf any profit gained from the unlikely-to-be-very-high increase on the cape, unless someone is stupidly lucky and gets it in less than 10 fish. It's a rather huge gamble with a very, very large cost, for a very, very small pay off. It's not even remotely financially worth it.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

It boosts skillup rates, which is going to save money. That's why it's powerfull. That's why everyone wants it.

SE could still make a weaker NQ version for 1M GP available, but for now you just have to live with the fact you can't buy it off the AH.

Not when based on the odds of getting it from the fish you purchase.

Unless you get it in 1~2 fish the cost far out weighs the bonus as you could have used the money to buy the materials to skill up without it, and probably profit more.

[Sotek]

It boosts skillup rates, which is going to save money. That's why it's powerfull. That's why everyone wants it.

SE could still make a weaker NQ version for 1M GP available, but for now you just have to live with the fact you can't buy it off the AH.

I swear, did you even read the rest of my post, or any posts that followed it for that matter? If you can't understand how much of a colossal waste of time this item is then you're as deluded as the developers were for introducing it in this way in the first place. Keep going "It boosts skill up rates so it's worth 88M" if you like, it's never going to be true.

If you're a crafter with 25~100M to burn you might as well just skill up instead, if you're a fisher who wants to obtain the cape to level a craft, you might as well just sell the fish to morons to fund crafting. This cape has absolutely no worth and the developers are complete morons for not just adding it to GPs initially. Every crafter with a brain already knows this is worthless, in a few months when nobody even wastes time thinking about this trash, fishers will realize how worthless it was and complain at Matsya being wasted on this item. I'd like to say this is the worst possible way for the developers to have introduced such an item, but I only know that they'd surprise me next update with another equally ridiculous piece of crap.

[wish12oz]

If you're a crafter with 25~100M to burn you might as well just skill up instead, if you're a fisher who wants to obtain the cape to level a craft, you might as well just sell the fish to morons to fund crafting. This cape has absolutely no worth and the developers are complete morons for not just adding it to GPs initially.

The problem with your entire post is that it assumes unlimited supply of skill up items. Even if you spend 100m on the cape and it only saves you 100m in skill up materials, thats still a positive thing, because you dont have to look for and find those extra 100m worth of ingredients. And all indications so far point to this cape actually being really good anyway, so whatever.

[Godofgods]

The problem with your entire post is that it assumes unlimited supply of skill up items. Even if you spend 100m on the cape and it only saves you 100m in skill up materials, thats still a positive thing, because you dont have to look for and find those extra 100m worth of ingredients. And all indications so far point to this cape actually being really good anyway, so whatever.

Their is no evidence of how much this cape will increase skill up percentages. Now i highly doubt its much. But even if it gave you skill ups every single synth, it still wouldn't be worth it financially. And it sure wouldn't save you no 100mill..


because you dont have to look for and find those extra 100m worth of ingredients.

Do you have any idea how much 100mill worth of ingredients are to a crafter?

[Xerius]

Do you have any idea how much 100mill worth of ingredients are to a crafter?

My guess woud be 100,000,000 gil but I'm no expert. =P

[Theytak]

My guess woud be 100,000,000 gil but I'm no expert. =P

Nah, it depends on just what ingredients are involved, and how much money the crafter can convert them into. Depending on the mats, I can turn 5k into 50k, or 83k into 400k. That said, it's not really a fair argument, because it belies the fact that any extra skill ups you get while skillling up on a profitable recipe would actually hurt your immediate profit, and would reduce the overall gain of the shawl; though that bit is HEAVILY variable between crafts.

[Falseliberty]

If SE really does plan to take crafting to 150... this cape will be priceless.
I understand that SE didn't want the cape to be rare cuz then 1 guy could get the cape then let all his other friends abuse it and trade it around. thou I'm kinda sure the current method of acquiring it is a bit tad over bored as well

[Godofgods]

If SE really does plan to take crafting to 150... this cape will be priceless.

Thats the only option in which this cape might be worth the cost. But thats also what scares me. If they increase the crafting limit, and introduce new high cost materials to the point where potentially spending 100mill on this cape actually would help in the long run... Then their might be one less crafter in the world.

[Apollus]

Meh to this cape, I'd be lying if I don't want it but its not worth the gil/time fish it. So gl to the fishers trying to make some gils.

If the cape cost 100 mil in fish, with the equivelant gil on craft mats I'd say I can probably double that amount whilst skilling up to cap. you just need to keep up with the profit synths to cover your loss skill ups.

What puts me off the most about this cape is that its useless once you cap your crafts and thats a 100mil gone down the drain (assuming its a 100 mil). So if you had a 100 mil to spend do what Sotek suggested just spend it on the lvling the craft.

So all in all its pretty redundant with the costs involved to get this cape. Even if they do raise the craft limit I'll just repeat the above.

Oh and to whoever that said crafting is dead you're full of S*@#t

[Zuidar]

Actually after reading through the july 24th version update notes, this line I read and I will quote

"Ex Item Delivery Revisions
The list of undeliverable exclusive items has been updated."


and yet Shaper's Shawl is NOT on the undeliverable same-account items!

That means that there's a bug in both Plumb Boots AND Shaper's Shawl that made it non-deliverable between same-account characters! I tried CTRL-F searching on that page and it's not there. So that means that it WAS intended to be deliverable that way. So I guess I should report this as a bug. Hopefully the Devs get this and fix it :D

The Shaper's Shawl and Plumb Boots aren't being deliver-able as it was intended to be

[Godofgods]

Actually after reading through the july 24th version update notes, this line I read and I will quote

"Ex Item Delivery Revisions
The list of undeliverable exclusive items has been updated."


and yet Shaper's Shawl is NOT on the undeliverable same-account items!

That means that there's a bug in both Plumb Boots AND Shaper's Shawl that made it non-deliverable between same-account characters! I tried CTRL-F searching on that page and it's not there. So that means that it WAS intended to be deliverable that way. So I guess I should report this as a bug. Hopefully the Devs get this and fix it :D

The Shaper's Shawl and Plumb Boots aren't being deliver-able as it was intended to be

ooorrrrrrrr.......

They forgot to add them to the list.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

If SE really does plan to take crafting to 150... this cape will be priceless.
I understand that SE didn't want the cape to be rare cuz then 1 guy could get the cape then let all his other friends abuse it and trade it around. thou I'm kinda sure the current method of acquiring it is a bit tad over bored as well

Now it's based on potential outcomes?

Someone is at 115 fish already, that's the equivalent of 115,000,000 it's still not justified.

[Triffle]

The cape is going to be completely free for me. I just started crafting and was on the verge of getting fishing done with. At 88 fishing, I started catching Cave Cherax for skill ups. By 100 I'll have plenty of bait to try starting to fish for it. By 110 I should probably have one.

I love that they added this to fishing, as fishing was pretty much useless for everything except cooking, NPCing the fish and a few other recipes in a few other crafts. Thank you SE for finally making fishing relevant to all crafts.

[Sotek]

Nice to see people don't know what an opportunity cost is. I suppose if you finally get this cape after fishing up 127 Matsya all by yourself it hasn't cost you anything, right? Not a colossal time sink and there was never the alternative of selling those Matsya 1M each and earning 127M, or better yet finding a better source of gil.

Yep, this cape costs you absolutely nothing.

And why the hell should Fishing be relevant to every craft? It's completely relevant to Cooking and somewhat to Alchemy and Bonecraft, most crafts only have three or four relevant subcrafts and Fishing isn't even a bloody craft to begin with. There is no single craft that is absolutely relevant to every single other craft and requires you to get 110 in it in order to get materials for skill up recipes 1-110 in every other craft. If Fishing is to be relevant to every craft I demand Mining, Harvesting and Logging be too, rather than being relevant to only a few crafts like they are currently.

[Triffle]

Someone's mad that they haven't leveled fishing. QQ As for no single craft that is relevant to all other crafts, I never realized Synergy was a Combat Skill. Last I checked it's about as much a craft as Fishing was.

Also I've yet to see how these will make you the 100 million you're all talking about getting if you sold them. As of today I have yet to see people actively buy Matsya's for anywhere close to the prices people spout, at least on Asura. Only 2 people have actually bought the fish for 600k and 1M on the AH during the first few days of the hype. Good luck catching a tonne and trying to sell them.

Meanwhile I'll soon be getting a permanent version of Macaroons for free while you continue to whine about it. ;)

[Sotek]

Really? I literally just said Fishing wasn't a craft (because it isn't), want to guess what Synergy is?

Nice to see you know what Bazaars are, too. The AH is totally the only way to sell anything, but even ignoring that, I'm pretty sure I said rather than fishing these and selling them, you could find better sources of gil and make more money that way. Oh look, I did say that.

Feel free to coat your posts in more "HURHUR U MAD", really drives the point home that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

[Triffle]

/em Looks at the Bazaars of fisherman trying to sell them and notices them going for 600kish and not selling for days on end.

I though I mentioned that the reason I will be getting it is because I want to get the skill to 110. Why would I look for better sources of money when money isn't what I'm going for. Is the money going to help me level fishing? Last I checked it won't. Will catching Cave Cherax get me skill ups? Pretty sure they will since they cap at 110.

Will getting the cape for free help me get other crafts up faster later? Yes it will. I've still yet to see where I'm losing out considering I'm doing what I already was before.

[Sotek]

Nice to see people don't know what an opportunity cost is. I suppose if you finally get this cape after fishing up 127 Matsya all by yourself it hasn't cost you anything, right? Not a colossal time sink and there was never the alternative of selling those Matsya 1M each and earning 127M, or better yet finding a better source of gil.

Nice to see you know what Bazaars are, too. The AH is totally the only way to sell anything, but even ignoring that, I'm pretty sure I said rather than fishing these and selling them, you could find better sources of gil and make more money that way. Oh look, I did say that.

I bolded it for you since you seemed to be having a hard time grasping this most basic of concepts.

[Triffle]

Congratulations, you need other better sources of gil. I need better sources of getting fishing skill ups. Turns out the best way to get those are Cave Cherax all the way to 110. The couple extra hours spent gutting them and fishing up Matsya won't make much of a difference, except to the fact that I'll spend less time skilling up other crafts.

Turns out I'm not the only one in this position. I see plenty of people these days at the Fountain of Kings skilling up on Cave Cherax and trying to get themselves bait for a free cape. Did you realize maybe that not all updates are supposed to help you personally? There are other people who play this game differently than you do.

[Sotek]

Oh so you're assuming you'll 100% obtain this cape from the Cave Cherax and resulting Matsya you can catch from skilling up alone? That's nice. Do Cave Cherax even stack? If they don't then a couple extra hours is a major understatement.

Considering we have claims of people going 0/115 on this cape and Dwarf Pugils are ~25% chance to obtain from gutting, do you really think you'll fish up over 460 Cave Cherax while skilling up?

[Triffle]

Probably more Cherax than that. Going from 88.2 to 91.3 using a Pelican Ring for extra skill ups, I've caught over 130 Cave Cherax. The other recommended fish for skill ups till 108 are Armored Pisces. Also they're terrible for skill ups. Even with the ring, I spent a day fishing them up and only got .4 skillups.

Not to mention with Armored Pisces you don't even get cash from since the NPC is far away from the fishing spot. Cave Cherax I get 800 gil per fish by gutting them and I've gotten 29 bait from them so far. Considering 110 is far away, I'm fairly certain by the time I get there I can get enough bait to get a cape for me and my 2 mules or just sell the excess ones to the people who you supposedly see buying them.

Basically this Cape is a reward for Fisherman since 100-110 doesn't really make a difference. We don't have any new useful fish to fish up, while other crafts get the ability to get easier HQ's and a few new recipes. Don't just look from your point of view, considering you probably don't even have higher than 20 fishing, look from the view of the fishing population.

[Sotek]

Regardless, your favorable position when it comes to obtain this is hardly justification for this item. Considering your throw out comments like "Someone's mad that they haven't leveled fishing. QQ" its fairly easy to see your obvious bias. You're in a relatively good position to obtain this cape so that makes it perfectly OK, the opinions of literally every other person that has posted in this thread mean nothing because you're lucky enough to have still been skilling up when they introduced this.

I've already made literally every point I can make about how ridiculous this cape is previously in this topic so I'm certainly not going to reiterate them. Needless to say, you're deluding yourself if you think it's acceptable for SE to introduce an item like this with only an extreme minority having a reasonable chance of obtaining it for a reasonable cost.


Basically this Cape is a reward for Fisherman since 100-110 doesn't really make a difference. We don't have any new useful fish to fish up, while other crafts get the ability to get easier HQ's and a few new recipes. Don't just look from your point of view, considering you probably don't even have higher than 20 fishing, look from the view of the fishing population.

I've looked at it from a Fishers view point. If I was a Fisher I'd rather have Matsya used to obtain something of value so it can act as a new source of income.

You try looking at it from the crafters view point. SE added 110 crafting with an extremely high cost to even come close to obtain it. Skill up rates are abysmal and you have costs of 500k~1M per synthesis. Something to help with skill up rates was desperately needed and SE goes and introduces it so it only benefits the 0.1% of the games population who are midway through leveling Fishing? You expect people to be OK with that? If this was something to benefit Fishers then it should have been related to Fishing.

[Triffle]

I think they added six of the desperately needed skill up items. They're called Macarons and Rusks, made via cooking.
•Sugar Rusk (46) Minor boost to HQ rate & reduces mats lost from failed synthesis.
•Chocolate Rusk (66) Moderate boost to HQ rate & reduces mats lost from failed synthesis.
•Coconut Rusk (86) Significant boost to HQ rate & reduces mats lost from failed synthesis.

•Cherry Macaron (36) Minor boost to skill ups & reduces failed synthesis attempts.
•Coffee Macaron (56) Moderate boost to skill ups & reduces failed synthesis attempts.
•Kitron Macaron (76) Significant boost to skill ups & reduces failed synthesis attempts.

All of these last 30 minutes each.

All you need is Patissier which costs 8k GP and the skill level. Everything except the Kitron for the Kitron Macarons can be bought in NPC shops for a hundred gil or so. Now all you need is the level for it which you can get in a day or two for virtually no loss of gil.

You're welcome.

[Sotek]

Three of those have nothing to do with skill up and I'd wager the remaining three are hardly a significant boost. Though when I'm complaint is that such skill up items shouldn't be obtained by a single profession, I do have to wonder why you think moving the argument to Cooking would work.

This cape still doesn't belong under Fishing and it never will. Pointing out macarons doesn't counter a single point that has been made in the entirety of this thread.

[Triffle]

Three of those have nothing to do with skill up and I'd wager the remaining three are hardly a significant boost.

Why do you think the cape gives a significant boost? I'd wager it gives about the same boost as the Cherry Macaron minus the bonus of having less mats lost.


I do have to wonder why you think moving the argument to Cooking would work.


Something to help with skill up rates was desperately needed.

^ Because you said this.

Turns out they added those already, as I've already mentioned.

[Sotek]

And macarons have been in the game for a while, they are almost completely irrelevant.


Why do you think the cape gives a significant boost? I'd wager it gives about the same boost as the Cherry Macaron minus the bonus of having less mats lost.

Because it's hard to obtain hurhur

No. I know why it gives a significant boost but you're completely deluded if you think only being reasonably obtainable by people still leveling Fishing is the only means to make this item hard to obtain. The macaron doesn't give a boost anywhere near as potent as this cape, nice to see you're ignorant of the bonus provided by both these items. This cape actually gives a significant bonus while Kitron macarons hardly give a noticeable increase.

If you have 110 Fishing, everything I've said about opportunity costs holds true and this cape is effectively a waste.
If you haven't leveled Fishing but would level it to obtain it, the same argument roughly applies.
If you hate Fishing and you're only reasonable way to obtain this is buying hundreds of Matsya, guess what this cape it?

Currently this cape only benefits you and you are seemingly completely blind to how biased you are because of that fact. Do tell me why it would be worse for Matsya to instead be used to obtain something that is both valuable and sellable? How is it a worse alternative for Matsya to become a new source of income for Fishers and for crafters to obtain this cape through reasonable means? Fishers would be happy, crafters would be happy. Seemingly the only reason you're against such a suggestion is because you're in a favorable position to obtain this cape now which lets you go "hurhur u mad u no lv fish".

[Triffle]

Just because something is hard to obtain, doesn't mean it is better than something that is easier to obtain. Why is it that you think that? Take some Empyrean and Mythic weapons. We can all agree that Mythic weapons are quite difficult to get, requiring numerous quests and hundreds of millions of gil. Empyreans are easy to get. Empyrean Armageddon gun is the best gun for Corsair while the Death Penalty falls short of it. 2 weeks versus what can take 2 years or more to make. That is one example out of hundreds.

Turns out you need actual facts when making arguments. Just because something is HUR HUR HUR harder to get doesn't mean it is infinitely better. Your arguments are falling short of the goal. Anywho, I'm done with this argument. Me and the hundreds of other fishermen will be happy when we get it. You can continue to whine about it all you want.

[Sotek]

So far I've seen reports of the cape bringing skill up rates to 40%~50% (60-100 is naturally 25%~33%, maybe same for 100-110), most I've seen macarons do is 35%~40%. I'd post facts but I'm pretty sure everyone else would contest to the fact that macarons are trash and this cape may actually do something. I doubt I even need to, since they probably stack in which case "macarons are irrelevant".

Nice of you to give up on the argument rather than actually attempt to counter a single argument I've put forwards. Can't explain why Matsya being worthwhile and crafters getting this somewhat reasonably would be a better alternative? Better pretend to be done with the argument and return to your "HURHUR I CAN GET THIS AND YOU CANT" posts, from start to finish your posts have been steeped in bias, nice going.

[Triffle]

Okay then, thanks for the facts. I have one last thing I might as well say to you that will end your arguments since my last few have already defeated most of yours.

You whine about how it doesn't come from a Synthesis craft. This actually makes perfect sense to do. Something that useful, were it to come from a synthesis craft, would definitely have to be in the range of level 100 to 110. If it wasn't, everyone and their mules could get it easily.

If it indeed were to come from level 100-110, which craft would get it? Last I checked each player can only have one Synthesis craft over 70. If for example it were to come from cloth craft, everyone who leveled other skills would get shafted. Logically it should be put into a craft that all players can level, no matter what levels they have in other crafts.

This leaves us only two crafts. Fishing and Synergy. Since the release of Synergy, it has been getting constant updates. Augments for a tonne of gear, new items to make such as the Chatoyant staff. It has been updated way too much as SE already saw.

This leaves us with fishing. It is a skill anyone can level, no matter what levels in other crafts people have. It hasn't had a good update in ages. Oooh congrats, we got like 5 new fish in past few years of which around only like 3 are useful for something. Matsya has been a troll fish in the fishing community for ages and we've been asking SE to make it so we can gut it. SE finally made it worthwhile to fish after so many years. It is the only logical choice.

You gave the idea that it should be by GP. That would be silly. This way everyone can easily get the item. GP items aren't challenging to get, they're just time consuming. The point of it is that it isn't required to get a craft up, it's just a nice addition to have via something that is actually challenging.

If your idea were to happen, I would demand SE to make an unlimited skill up item for fishing that you could get from GP. Instead we have something that can be difficult and something that not everyone can do. It's called the Fishing Contest and the Pelican Ring isn't even permanent. You ever try fishing up Liks or something similar for the contest? Sometimes it's not even accessible to the people doing fishing unless they buy the fish.

[Sotek]

You gave the idea that it should be by GP. That would be silly. This way everyone can easily get the item. GP items aren't challenging to get, they're just time consuming.

And Matsya gutting is the epitome of skillful gaming and in no way time consuming? Are you kidding me? It doesn't even require skill to gut Matsya, get Fishing to 30 and have 100M to buy the damn things, done. At least with Guild Points you'll probably have to craft the items yourself since nobody can sell a single item for Guild Points considering the required items at least vary. Matsya is exactly the same as Guild Points except, you know, any crafter can obtain Guild Points while gutting Matsya is practically a privilege held by very few.

And why shouldn't everyone be able to get this? The developers themselves have stated that it was meant to be on par with a hard NM, everyone in the game can make an attempt at NMs, very few people can make a reasonable attempt at this. Why the hell should a select few be entitled to this item? Your bias is showing again.

If they slapped this on Guild Points with a 500K cost I wouldn't complain, though plenty of people would. That is an achievable goal for any craft but some are certainly going to resent it, but at least it's possible for everyone this cape would be relevant for to obtain it. They could easily correlate a cost to it with Guild Points as well as the amount of time it would take to obtain rather than more ridiculous RNG bullshit that this game has been suffering from for the past year. Heck, I down right hate this suggestion but they could put it on GoV Chests as well like the Torques, then it truly is like a NM drop. I absolutely abhor that suggestion but it's a much better alternative than Matsya.


If your idea were to happen, I would demand SE to make an unlimited skill up item for fishing that you could get from GP. Instead we have something that can be difficult and something that not everyone can do. It's called the Fishing Contest and the Pelican Ring isn't even permanent.

And guess what? I wouldn't be against that. But hey, mention Pelican Ring if you like, that's obtained through Fishing for Fishing, just adds to my point if anything.


Matsya has been a troll fish in the fishing community for ages and we've been asking SE to make it so we can gut it. SE finally made it worthwhile to fish after so many years. It is the only logical choice.

You argued earlier that practically nobody buys Matsya for this cape, so Matysa is damn near worthless by that logic. Any Fisher who has no interest in crafting or has already capped their crafts (unlikely but possible) effectively has Matsya retaining its title as "troll fish", since they still have absolutely no purpose behind it. Again, your bias is showing.

This cape being obtained in this way benefits you and you alone and you see that as justification for it. You've still yet to argue why something better for Matsya wouldn't be a preferable alternative and your only argument against this being obtained through crafting is completely ridiculous. I hope you get the cape so you can come back with some childish "HURHUR I GOT THE CAPE QQ MOAR".

Heck, once you get the cape Matsya is effectively back where it was before the update. At least if they let you obtain something that had a viable market from it you could justify continually obtaining Matsya for a viable source of income. This cape on Matsya is nothing short of a waste for Fishing and a waste for crafting. So not only are you apparently incredibly biased, but apparently shortsighted as well. This cape coming from Matsya is so far from "the only logical choice" that I shouldn't even be humoring you with a response, they could have given Matsya something with a viable market and Fishers could have had an extra source of income, this cape could have come from Guild Points and it could have been extremely time consuming to make it rare but more than possible to obtain for everyone who wants it. That is the only logical choice and until you can counter that point your argument will hold absolutely no weight.

[Triffle]

That is one giant wall stating that you are too lazy to get a craft up as your only argument. It's not that you can't level it, it's that you don't feel like it. Oh well, no rewards for you! HUR HUR HUR. Guess only the elite few will be getting this Relic of Crafting. =)

[Sotek]

No, it's one giant wall depicting why you're dead wrong. Feel free to post absolutely nothing again instead of even attempting to counter a single point I've made, though it would be hilarious to hear your reasoning for why gutting Matsya isn't just a massive time sink and why it's the most skill intensive thing in this game.

Too lazy to get Fishing up? Right, because it offers one item I'd ever want which is not worth in any way shape or form the amount of time it would take to obtain going from 0 Fishing. I could cap several of my crafts (I don't even want to touch on how ridiculous obtaining several of these capes is) in the time it would take to get anywhere near to obtaining Matsya myself. Opportunity costs strike again, continue posting more ignorant comments, please.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

No, it's one giant wall depicting why you're dead wrong. Feel free to post absolutely nothing again instead of even attempting to counter a single point I've made, though it would be hilarious to hear your reasoning for why gutting Matsya isn't just a massive time sink and why it's the most skill intensive thing in this game.

Too lazy to get Fishing up? Right, because it offers one item I'd ever want which is not worth in any way shape or form the amount of time it would take to obtain going from 0 Fishing. I could cap several of my crafts (I don't even want to touch on how ridiculous obtaining several of these capes is) in the time it would take to get anywhere near to obtaining Matsya myself. Opportunity costs strike again, continue posting more ignorant comments, please.

Why argue, let him get 1000+ Rare/Ex bait, and then get annoyed when 950 of that is wasted on the items and other fish, then of the remaining 50 only about 9 will be the fish. (exaggeration, but can happen)

As a Fisherman level 110, with all gear and rod I assure you the fish is a pain in the a*se to fish up.

--



That is one giant wall stating that you are too lazy to get a craft up as your only argument. It's not that you can't level it, it's that you don't feel like it. Oh well, no rewards for you! HUR HUR HUR. Guess only the elite few will be getting this Relic of Crafting. =)

Just an FYI, Fishing is not a Craft it's under the tab, but it's not classed as a craft, also LOL at elite.....

[Kristal]

No, it's one giant wall depicting why you're dead wrong.
Unless SE changes their mind (and they probably won't), he's the one being right.

It's obvious there's nothing else to discuss.

We think you're pampered paupers; you think we're sisyphusian sycophants. Square's support said that the shaper's shawl stays in the piscian prison of mischievous matsyas, so either ride that rod for guts and glory, generate gaggels of gil or abstain from acquisition.

I hear RDM melee is all the rage now.

[Sotek]

Oh seriously? SE agrees so he must be right, how foolish of me.

I've put forward a suggestion I think is superior for all parties involved (Fishers and crafters). So far nobody has even attempted to counter it, unless you count "GPs are just a time sink" as a counter but I've already explained how bloody ridiculous that claim is considering how you do obtain it currently.

I could care less if SE ever changes their mind and implements anything close to what I've suggested, this item is retarded and its at the end of a list of a great many retarded design choices they've made over the years. If they were refusing to adjust Evoliths and I was making the case that the current system is completely broken and stupid, would I be wrong? As it is, they've listened to player concerns and have planned to revamp the whole system in the distant future. Just because they'll likely never do the same thing here doesn't make their initial decision any less pants-on-head retarded and by extension it doesn't make anyone who agrees with such tripe right.

If there is nothing left to discuss it's because players like Triffle will post paragraph upon paragraph of effectively nothing while I, for the last time, ask questions like:

How is it a worse alternative for Matsya to become a new source of income for Fishers and for crafters to obtain this cape through reasonable means?
But hey, I really shouldn't expect a response to that since it's obviously rhetorical. No one in their right mind would respond with:

That's a worse alternative to Fishers having an extremely low chance of obtaining this cape through Matsya, which effectively becomes worthless again after they've obtained the cape since very few people are going to buy Matsya for a 1% chance at getting this cape at a minimum of 600k a piece. Dedicated crafters should have an extremely hard to nonexistent chance to obtain this clearly crafting related item.
Which is apparently the right opinion.

[Triffle]

Already countered every argument you had and beat it. The only argument you have left is chronic laziness disorder.


Why argue, let him get 1000+ Rare/Ex bait, and then get annoyed when 950 of that is wasted on the items

You don't lose bait when you fish up items. Any fisherman knows that. Asking any real fisherman who actually has over 100 fishing, they can tell you that you're exaggerating by a huge amount. People usually average 1 Matsya/10-20 Dwarf Pugils, which is a drop in the ocean when doing Cave Cherax from 90-110 fishing.

Just FYI, the Fish doesn't become useless. Nice people can actually help out their friends and help them try to get a cape as well while skilling up. Assuming you have any friends. :D

[Sotek]

If you've countered every point I've made I'd love to see a quote by quote account of that, because as I see if you've failed to counter a single point I've made successfully. The fact that you don't, or can't acknowledge most of the points I've made just makes you seem like a complete moron or a troll.


Just FYI, the Fish doesn't become useless. Nice people can actually help out their friends and help them try to get a cape as well while skilling up. Assuming you have any friends.

Nope. That's still useless, or rather worthless. Matsya could have been a great source of income had the put something different on it, instead you get this cape, you get this cape for your friends and oh look, Matsya is about as worthwhile as it was before this update. There is no long term value in this thing since you yourself claimed people weren't buying these regularly. If you intend to sell them on as well then my initial point about opportunity costs rears its ugly head and you'll have to do some more hand waving, claim I'm just lazy and act like that counters my point.

[Godofgods]

That is one giant wall stating that you are too lazy to get a craft up as your only argument. It's not that you can't level it, it's that you don't feel like it. Oh well, no rewards for you! HUR HUR HUR. Guess only the elite few will be getting this Relic of Crafting. =)

That is incredibly insulting. Iv had my real crafts capped for some time before the update. And aside form the new 100-110 on my WW, all the rest are capped again. Thats 590 skills gained. And your gonna call ppl like me lazy because I don't like fishing?

Aside form that, it only serves to dievate from the origional topic of this thread. That being how illogical it is for the only synthesis+ equip to come from something that doest rely on synthesis.

As a fisher, you like it only because your in a spot to grab it, so screw everyone else (and logic while you're at it) A synthesis+ equip should be obatined through some for of synthsis or their guild (Shocking logic, i know..).

Guild Points would have been a better option then fishing.


You whine about how it doesn't come from a Synthesis craft. This actually makes perfect sense to do. Something that useful, were it to come from a synthesis craft, would definitely have to be in the range of level 100 to 110. If it wasn't, everyone and their mules could get it easily.

If it indeed were to come from level 100-110, which craft would get it? Last I checked each player can only have one Synthesis craft over 70. If for example it were to come from cloth craft, everyone who leveled other skills would get shafted. Logically it should be put into a craft that all players can level, no matter what levels they have in other crafts.

You do realize that each craft has its own guild to buy things from right? (judging by that comment, I'm guessing not) And you do also realize that different guilds can carry the same item/key item right? Simple example is the Key item Sheeting. Bought with GP from EITHER the smithing guild or the goldsmithing guild. Which means there is no reason why they couldn't add the sharper's shawl to each guild at the highest level. By doing that, then real crafters can actually craft to get the crafting item. (wow... such immense logic is overwhleming...) And if SE wants it to be hard/long time to obtain, just set it at a super high GP price.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Already countered every argument you had and beat it. The only argument you have left is chronic laziness disorder.



You don't lose bait when you fish up items. Any fisherman knows that. Asking any real fisherman who actually has over 100 fishing, they can tell you that you're exaggerating by a huge amount. People usually average 1 Matsya/10-20 Dwarf Pugils, which is a drop in the ocean when doing Cave Cherax from 90-110 fishing.

Just FYI, the Fish doesn't become useless. Nice people can actually help out their friends and help them try to get a cape as well while skilling up. Assuming you have any friends. :D

I was assuming you didn't fish items up, AKA bot (PS. Love that you ignored the other fish the bait catches which is the worse one). :|

And.... I did state exaggeration, do read the post.

Assuming you do Cherax to 110, I didn't (Armored Pisces > Hakuryu long before this time sink was added to make it even more annoying.)

We'll see if you do this time sink for your "friends" while making no profit when it comes down to it, it's easy to say you'll do something it's more if you follow up.

[Triffle]

How does adding it to the highest levels of each crafting guild help you level all levels? The cape is designed to be used at any level. If you can only get it at veteran it defeats the purpose. Also just FYI, pretty sure the only thing the Pugils target are items, monsters and cobalt jellyfish.

Of the three only monsters and the jellyfish make you lose bait and you don't fish as many up assuming you use the rings and apron. So yes, you are exaggerating by a lot. Ask anyone who actually does fish them up.

I've also explained before why it makes sense for fishing to have the item, feel free to read it again instead of taking 2 paragraphs from multiple posts.

I'll also continue to claim you are lazy until you decide to actually level your fishing skill. Currently all you are doing is whining about something you don't even try to attempt. Nice 14 fishing skill there. Then again lazy people will be lazy. This isn't the first time a group will whine about something because they refuse to do it to get the rewards.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I've also explained before why it makes sense for fishing to have the item, feel free to read it again instead of taking 2 paragraphs from multiple posts.

And I'm afraid you're talking out your backside where it's concerned.... It makes no sense, and it never will.

PS. Forgot Line Breaks which are NOT rare... But you actually wouldn't know seeing as how you're not 110 fishing, I however am.

[Sotek]

How does adding it to the highest levels of each crafting guild help you level all levels? The cape is designed to be used at any level. If you can only get it at veteran it defeats the purpose.

It shouldn't be Veteran crafting skill to obtain, I'd put it ~60 where skill up naturally declines and with a high Guild Points cost it still wouldn't be easy to obtain. Though even if it was a Veteran item it would help with subcrafts and 110 which is by far the worst thing in the game at the moment. Getting it before 60 would actually be bad since in most cases crafts are profitable 1-60.


I've also explained before why it makes sense for fishing to have the item, feel free to read it again instead of taking 2 paragraphs from multiple posts.

I shot holes in literally all your arguments there and then all you follow up with "HURHUR U LAZY". Arguments don't work like that, you either have to counter my points proper or you're just talking out your ass. Still waiting on that quote by quote retake of you countering all my points, but at this point I find it more likely that you couldn't even identify a point I've made to attempt to counter it.


I'll also continue to claim you are lazy until you decide to actually level your fishing skill. Currently all you are doing is whining about something you don't even try to attempt.

Once again, opportunity costs. Such a simple point that you continually fail to grasp.

[Godofgods]

I'll also continue to claim you are lazy until you decide to actually level your fishing skill.

kinda says it all about him'



It shouldn't be Veteran crafting skill to obtain, I'd put it ~60 where skill up naturally declines and with a high Guild Points cost it still wouldn't be easy to obtain. Though even if it was a Veteran item it would help with subcrafts and 110 which is by far the worst thing in the game at the moment. Getting it before 60 would actually be bad since in most cases crafts are profitable 1-60.

I disagree with that actually. I think it should be a lvl 100 item. We already have +1 equip and furniture in the the mid/high levels. Also, everyone complains about things being made to easy. Having it at 100 would guarantee that they did one craft legitimately, and earned this reward. Which could then be used to work on sub craft, and in the new higher lvls that they are looking at putting out (100+).

[Sotek]

To be honest, if it was given a significantly high Guild Points value then the level you can obtain it at would hardly even matter. I accumulated a total of well over 300,000 Guild Points taking Alchemy from 1-90, literally stopping at 60 (as I suggested) to obtain 500,000 Guild Points would be foolish at best though the possibility to obtain it would at least be be there none-the-less. The level it is possible to obtain it at really doesn't seem all that important, I only suggest 60 because, as I said, that is when skill up naturally declines and profitable skill ups become rarer, ultimately this item is only really needed for 90-110 though (though most 90-100 recipes are probably far easier than I remember now).

But yeah, if they gave this a 500,000 Guild Points cost then they could stick it at the lowest possible rank and people would still only obtain it at the higher ranks, obtaining Guild Points is just too much of a pain at low levels. It would be possible do with 1,000 Guild Points a day but blahblahblah opportunity costs blahblahblah.

[Razielrinz]

Unfortunately for those of us without 6 years to cap Fishing or that actually have stuff to spend our gil on SE is not gonna change this. Not even if 90% of the population were to come on here and ask them too. Unfortunately this is just another of the ways SE has been sticking it to large parts of the population of the game with no real reason too. But I think once the server numbers start to decline again they will probably fix it along with the other parts of the game. People that are hardcore need to remember the people who are casuals subsidize your gaming experience. If it was not for us the game would be offline. So stop being such douche bags.

[Nawesemo]

Unfortunately for those of us without 6 years to cap Fishing or that actually have stuff to spend our gil on SE is not gonna change this. Not even if 90% of the population were to come on here and ask them too. Unfortunately this is just another of the ways SE has been sticking it to large parts of the population of the game with no real reason too. But I think once the server numbers start to decline again they will probably fix it along with the other parts of the game. People that are hardcore need to remember the people who are casuals subsidize your gaming experience. If it was not for us the game would be offline. So stop being such douche bags.

Mmmmmk..... Yeah, its a little much, but considering few would take on the 10k moats , its not too far fetched to guess that peps not willing to do that, would see this as impossible, shoot I did too, but then Anji-san and Fearless Leader started in on it about a month ago, (3-5 weeks), and holy cow pies they finnished, (well one of em, but the other will be there soon)...(they do have awesome jobs and get to play a lil more than the average Joe, but not much). Bottom line, fishing isnt for everyone, i thought it was for me, but @29 skill along time ago it was made clear that i lack patience...... And in the end, if you want this, thats all it will take..... Things were never suppose to be just given to us, and for me, if i aint having at least a litte fun toward it, f that noise, let the ones who want to, do it, remember walking isnt for the birds.

[CapriciousOne]

For me fishing, is something you only do when your really REALLY bored, high or drunk because that kind of patience you have to be born with LOL. Besides other than cooking fish really arent needed all that much so there isnt a real market for it to me so there is no profit margin in it to me but to be fair i'm only like level 9 fishing and have been there for about a year almost 2 now and dont plan on changing that anytime soon if ever.

[Godofgods]

For me fishing, is something you only do when your really REALLY bored, high or drunk because that kind of patience you have to be born with LOL.

So true'
Ive said it before and ill say it again. I have enough patience to cap (100/60) all my crafts (and almost all before the release of abby.) But i just don't have enough for fishing.

[Kristal]

So true'
Ive said it before and ill say it again. I have enough patience to cap (100/60) all my crafts (and almost all before the release of abby.) But i just don't have enough for fishing.

Then you should be glad to know that you can also buy the fish from bazaars and auction houses! No fishing required!
The fishing route is for stingy die-hards, the buy route allows you to do whatever you want, as long as it pays gil.
500k/fish on Bismarck, 300-800k on other servers. Seeing as people are lining up to buy the fish at that price, it must be worth it. And at least on Bismarck, the AH is never out of fish.

[Sapphire]

Then you should be glad to know that you can also buy the fish from bazaars and auction houses! No fishing required!


You still need to have fishing to 30 to flag the quest. Or at least high enough that with gear you hit 30. So, yeah, some fishing is required.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Then you should be glad to know that you can also buy the fish from bazaars and auction houses! No fishing required!
The fishing route is for stingy die-hards, the buy route allows you to do whatever you want, as long as it pays gil.
500k/fish on Bismarck, 300-800k on other servers. Seeing as people are lining up to buy the fish at that price, it must be worth it. And at least on Bismarck, the AH is never out of fish.

Worth it for the Fisherman selling the fish, not the ones buying the fish for the shawl.

[Jeville]

So... it's not deliverable between characters on the same account? This thing's existence just killed any incentive for me to profess in a different craft on one of my mules...

[Zirael]

Then you should be glad to know that you can also buy the fish from bazaars and auction houses! No fishing required!
The fishing route is for stingy die-hards, the buy route allows you to do whatever you want, as long as it pays gil.
500k/fish on Bismarck, 300-800k on other servers. Seeing as people are lining up to buy the fish at that price, it must be worth it. And at least on Bismarck, the AH is never out of fish.
Not to offend you (but it might sound so), but you are extremely out of touch with reality if you actually think anyone "die-hard" sits there to spam 200~ Hakuryu/Lik/Gugusaurus/Abaia etc. People just bot it all.
Fishing just few fish for my cooking guild point items (helooo Turtle Soup) was boring (and unrewarding) as hell. Even afking in Port Jeuno is more entertaining (drama :3) and profitable (piggybacking interesting shouts).

[Nawesemo]

Not to offend you (but it might sound so), but you are extremely out of touch with reality if you actually think anyone "die-hard" sits there to spam 200~ Hakuryu/Lik/Gugusaurus/Abaia etc. People just bot it all.
Fishing just few fish for my cooking guild point items (helooo Turtle Soup) was boring (and unrewarding) as hell. Even afking in Port Jeuno is more entertaining (drama :3) and profitable (piggybacking interesting shouts).

Lol, that's one noisy ass bot we got in our shell then,..... "I hate this fish" at least 2wice an hour at random, not EVERYONE cheats.

Anji we salute you!!!