Discussion Involving All Pet Jobs

[KorPoni]

BST, DRG, PUP, SMN

There are a huge list of things players who like to play as pet jobs discuss that seem to, for the most part, fall into a similarity. Let's discuss whatever we want to see with our pet jobs as a whole. Here's a few things players have been discussing:

1) cosmetics: Various decorative things players are wanting that don't affect game content, but allow for new appearances on their pets.

2) equipment: Gear specifically for pet jobs that enhance pets, masters, or both.

3) pet enhancements: More commands for pets as job abilities. There could be other kinds of enhancements, like stat changes, job traits, etc.

This is what I'd personally like to see more of: Gear. I'd like to see gear that all pet jobs can use interchangably between pet jobs that enhance pet stats.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Just because it's easier to list a Call Wyvern as a pet doesnt' make DRG a pet a job. lol

True, BST gear needs an update. Empyrean dose jack for pets and everything for teh BST. AND... BST needs more charges, just one is sufficient.

What I would liek to see is being able to change DRG pet colors. That would make me level DRG a third time.

[KorPoni]

DRG is a pet job. It's just different from the other pet jobs in that the owner isn't as dependent. But, it is a pet job, because, if done right, the pet can change the tides of battle as greatly as any other pet job.

I agree on pet colors for the wyvern. I'd love to see the ability to make my wyvern white. Even if, by no other means, special gear for drg that changes the pet's color while you're equipped with it.

[RAIST]

I'd like to see a change in a mechanic...specifically for DRG. At the very least, can we have an Assault and Heel command?

Raist

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I'd like to see a change in a mechanic...specifically for DRG. At the very least, can we have an Assault and Heel command?

RaistFurther proof that it's not a pet job.

[Dauntless]

Just because it's easier to list a Call Wyvern as a pet doesnt' make DRG a pet a job. lol

True, BST gear needs an update. Empyrean dose jack for pets and everything for teh BST. AND... BST needs more charges, just one is sufficient.

What I would liek to see is being able to change DRG pet colors. That would make me level DRG a third time.

Except for the fact that we rely on our wyverns to make us above-mediocre DD's, especially with the addition of Soul and Spirit jumps. Also, DRGs solo often and there is nothing we're going to be soloing efficiently without our wyverns.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

DRG has never been mediocre DD. And why are you soloing on it, do you solo on WAR too? lol

[Zyeriis]

You've never heard of DRG solo? That's sad, it's quite good.

DRG is a pet job under the ruling that it is affected by Corsair's pet rolls and one of the rolls (Drachen roll - The Dragoon Die) is based entirely upon pets. As for pet job upgrades, how about some more corsair pet rolls?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Again having a pet isn't the deffinition of a pet job.

And I would much enjoy more COR pet rolls, even though CORs never use the pre-existing ones.

[Zyeriis]

I'm from back before the level cap increases from 75, I used to join a lot of Pet burns as corsair, with 5 beastmasters or some beastmasters and a puppetmaster or two, great exp.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

PTs like that don't exist here.

[KorPoni]

Again having a pet isn't the deffinition of a pet job.

And I would much enjoy more COR pet rolls, even though CORs never use the pre-existing ones.

That's abit reduntantly in denial. A job that has a pet is exactly what classifies all jobs that...has a pet...a pet job.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

You fight, your dragon assists. Pet jobs are defined by the exact opposite.

[Zyeriis]

If we want to argue semantics, it is possible to have the wyvern attacking, while you are not, by engaging then running around and casting spells/kiting.

[JagerForrester]

What defines a pet job? I have a combative pet, you don't. I think that defines it solid enough.

[KorPoni]

Each job is different in its function, including each pet job functions differently. The only thing needed to define a job as a pet job is the ability to have a pet without a subjob that brings a pet out for you. No matter what the pet is, you're allowed only one, whether it's a wyvern that acts based on what you do, automaton that acts based on what strings you pull, beast that acts based on what you tell it to do, or avatar/spirit that acts based on what blood pact you use.

[RAIST]

the difference I think they are trying to make is a wyvern behaves more like an NPC. You don't have any direct control over it--it only responds to battle conditions based on it's independant AI, where as with all the other pet classes you can directly command them to act. The only control you have on a wyvern is if your subjob is set so that it's AI picks up your spell casts as a cue to use healing breaths.

So technically by it's base definition it is indeed a pet job, but as for play style it really does not function like a pet job but behaves more like an NPC. But the game does indeed see it as a pet--you can use your moogle specs with wyvern out, but can't with your NPC out.

Raist

[Zyeriis]

You said Raist twice.

[Detoxy]

no thats how u define it

[RAIST]

You said Raist twice.

ehehe... yeah..stupid copy/pasting... sometimes I don't see it picks up my name with the text selection

Raist

[Dauntless]

DRG has never been mediocre DD. And why are you soloing on it, do you solo on WAR too? lol

I sincerely hope you're joking about that entire statement.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I sincerely hope you're joking about that entire statement.I have always done top tier dmg on DRG regardless of it's update state. And yes, pre drakesbane even.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Blood pact timer should be re-evaluated and whether or not it should remain capped at -15 recast. Don't know why this cap exists in the first place and in my opinion it's just detrimental to smn at this stage in the game. Should at least be lowered.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Blood pact timer should be re-evaluated and whether or not it should remain capped at -15 recast. Don't know why this cap exists in the first place and in my opinion it's just detrimental to smn at this stage in the game. Should at least be lowered.I had no idea it capped. Good thing I only have -10. lol

[Rocman]

I would like to see better gear for pup. It is crazy that pup gear is the same as mages gear.

[RAIST]

Blood pact timer should be re-evaluated and whether or not it should remain capped at -15 recast. Don't know why this cap exists in the first place and in my opinion it's just detrimental to smn at this stage in the game. Should at least be lowered.


Guess it was to constrict the damage output...but considering I can spam WS on some jobs every 35 seconds now even when not tanking, it's kind of lost it's merit. Barring the haters that are just gonna hate, down to 30 or 40 seconds should be agreeable at this point in the game.

Raist

[Harmless]

I would have to agree that DRG is definitely a pet job, just in a different way. Although DRG is a very capable DD, by simply changing your subjob you can completely change the way you play the job. I remember back when the level cap was 75 (before abyssea and endless mp via atma ect..) using DRG as a supportive and sometimes main healer. One example that I distinctly remember was main healing PLD's while fighting Faust in Sky. With Ares's Cuirass or any other form off Refresh and a decent Healing Breath build DRG is imo one of the most mp and enmity efficient healers bar none. Another example that we often used DRGs for was Dynamis. I recall many times after a bad pull in Dynamis seeing the party with the DRG as the last standing. Of course, like all pet jobs (just ask PUPs pre- Dues Ex Automata) AOE spamming mobs can ruin your day in a hurry.

Just my 2 cents here but although a DRG without a pet can do quite well in the DD department, it couldn't do any of the above listed things without it.

[Dauntless]

I have always done top tier dmg on DRG regardless of it's update state. And yes, pre drakesbane even.

So you're a DRG and you have never heard of DRG soloing? Well I imagine this might contribute to your belief that DRG isn't a pet job. We are completely reliant on our Wyverns to solo anything beyond the most basic of monsters.

That statement leaves alot of room for question. Is DRG capable of being a top-tier DD? Yes, however again, without our Wyverns our parsed damage is dramatically decreased.

[KorPoni]

I'm glad I got alot of people talking. I'll agree PUP needs to step out from under the shadow of mage gear. I wish I could say whether or not I agree with SMN blood pact limits. I've not yet gotten the job past a level to get gear to drop blood pact recast.


Harmless wrote:
I would have to agree that DRG is definitely a pet job, just in a different way. Although DRG is a very capable DD, by simply changing your subjob you can completely change the way you play the job. I remember back when the level cap was 75 (before abyssea and endless mp via atma ect..) using DRG as a supportive and sometimes main healer. One example that I distinctly remember was main healing PLD's while fighting Faust in Sky. With Ares's Cuirass or any other form off Refresh and a decent Healing Breath build DRG is imo one of the most mp and enmity efficient healers bar none. Another example that we often used DRGs for was Dynamis. I recall many times after a bad pull in Dynamis seeing the party with the DRG as the last standing. Of course, like all pet jobs (just ask PUPs pre- Dues Ex Automata) AOE spamming mobs can ruin your day in a hurry.

Just my 2 cents here but although a DRG without a pet can do quite well in the DD department, it couldn't do any of the above listed things without it.

Thanks for clarifying this.

[Coldbrand]

I sincerely hope you're joking about that entire statement.

Baww it wasn't FoTM at the time so I didn't play it.

[jeffanddane]

Tsukino lolol shush your mouth >.> Its a pet job DRG's before abyssea soloed colobris and anything flying alot . . . . . its a pet job. . . .. Wyvern is a PET that assists you which makes DRG a PET job lol/ Nit o dp gpt tp agree with you that DRG is no where near the bottom of DD i see them in abyssea MESSIN SHIZAT UP!!!!!!!

[Rocman]

drg/blu was the best solo in the game!

[KimchanAsura]

No way do I or will I ever consider DRG a pet job. If anything the pet is a hindrance/nuisance. They get in the way when you are trying to run around. Nothing like a stupid wyvern in front of you when you try to use your +12% movement speed. The wyvern dmg is also a waste(probably feeds mobs TP too).

DRG isn't even as much a pet job as /bst is(with bst fully leveled).

[Dauntless]

No way do I or will I ever consider DRG a pet job. If anything the pet is a hindrance/nuisance. They get in the way when you are trying to run around. Nothing like a stupid wyvern in front of you when you try to use your +12% movement speed. The wyvern dmg is also a waste(probably feeds mobs TP too).

DRG isn't even as much a pet job as /bst is(with bst fully leveled).

Either this is a troll post or you're mind-numbingly dumb. Likely the former.

[Rocman]

No way do I or will I ever consider DRG a pet job. If anything the pet is a hindrance/nuisance. They get in the way when you are trying to run around. Nothing like a stupid wyvern in front of you when you try to use your +12% movement speed. The wyvern dmg is also a waste(probably feeds mobs TP too).

DRG isn't even as much a pet job as /bst is(with bst fully leveled).

I really hope you are kidding...

[KorPoni]

Either this is a troll post or you're mind-numbingly dumb. Likely the former.

I'm not familiar with troll post. What is that exactly?

btw, if a pet "gets in the way" on one job, it gets in the way on all of em. It's a problem people playing pet jobs or in pt with people who use pet jobs deal with. And, theres the command /ignorepet to deal with accidently highlighting people's pets.

[Zyeriis]

No way do I or will I ever consider DRG a pet job. If anything the pet is a hindrance/nuisance. They get in the way when you are trying to run around. Nothing like a stupid wyvern in front of you when you try to use your +12% movement speed. The wyvern dmg is also a waste(probably feeds mobs TP too).

DRG isn't even as much a pet job as /bst is(with bst fully leveled).
I really hope that was sarcasm :/

[JagerForrester]

You're probably just saying that just to get a rise out of people. I'm slightly not falling for it. The rest of you shouldn't feed either. So, back to OP

Cosmetics, equipment, enhancements. Go

[KorPoni]

You're probably just saying that just to get a rise out of people. I'm slightly not falling for it. The rest of you shouldn't feed either.

The only rise I wish to see, which seems to be minimal due to all the arguing, is a response to the OP... This is the fifth or sixth thread I've seen where people start arguing their way away from what a thread is about.

[Dauntless]

I'm not familiar with troll post. What is that exactly?

btw, if a pet "gets in the way" on one job, it gets in the way on all of em. It's a problem people playing pet jobs or in pt with people who use pet jobs deal with. And, theres the command /ignorepet to deal with accidently highlighting people's pets.

A post that states something dumb, offending, or controversial in an attempt to get a reaction out of people and/or get them angry.

On-topic: I don't have extensive experience with any other pet jobs but there are changes I would like to see made to DRG such as Wyvern armor and a decrease of magical/physical damage taken as many mobs AoE often and with a 20 minute recast it's a pain to be Wyvernless for long periods of time since Soul and Spirit jumps rely on our wyvern being out for effectiveness.

[Rocman]

I would like to see better pup gear, I would like to see more automation attachment, whm auto should be able to cast protect, haste, ect. It has regen so why not other buffs? Also a better self SC with the rng auto would be nice also.

[Xilk]

Wow, i can't believe the pet community would troll on DRG. Thats pretty shocking to me. Of course its a pet job. What a ridiculous notion that it is not.
DRG doesn't fit into a pet-centric setup as well as the other pet jobs for party balance, because it does not share hate nearly as much as the other 3 pet jobs. It does so much of its damage on the main, that its going to take hate. If you are in an all pet party and there is a drg... the drg is tanking and you'll probably need some healing from another source... be it automaton, lulush, or a few more /mage. This talk makes me want to brush of my drg a little. I haven't seen Drg in Abyssea at all... Its fun to play, but my lowest level pet job....

Regarding the limit of only having 1 pet... I think the NPC fellows show that this could easily be changed. it looks like 2 pets when I have pet out and NPC fellow out at the same time. I think auto/mob/avatar/wyvern just all fill the same slot. NPC fellow shows that another slot exists and could exist. ironically, the magian trial log seems to occupy the same slot as the NPC fellow.

The only gear I can think of that goes to all the pet jobs exclusively are the herder's subligar and breeder's set (although I think only 1x french smn ever got that set).

[Dauntless]

This has also been stated before but: Shorter recast on call wyvern and @ level 99 Healing Breath IV

[Coldbrand]

Sorry I like to think of myself as a Jump job, not a pet job. Without the little blue punks I'd be wearing fullplate and all my jumps would probably be fully invincible for their duration like they're supposed to be. And I'd probably have Lancet by now.

[Xilk]

I would like to see better pup gear, I would like to see more automation attachment, whm auto should be able to cast protect, haste, ect. It has regen so why not other buffs? Also a better self SC with the rng auto would be nice also.

Agreed, automaton attachments really gives puppetmaster an alternative to pet+ gear. The auto already has its own gear.. I don't see why they haven't added any new ones. pup and master can be pretty well balanced though.

DRG the emphasis is on the master w/ mostly support from the pet.

SMN the emphasis is so much on the pet I would expect all gear to augment the pet.

BST is probably where the contrast is most pronounced. both share the melee role quite equally.... the gear adds pet+ or main+ if you try to boost pet, you are usually foregoing several pieces that boost the master much more.

[Rocman]

Agreed, automaton attachments really gives puppetmaster an alternative to pet+ gear. The auto already has its own gear.. I don't see why they haven't added any new ones. pup and master can be pretty well balanced though.

DRG the emphasis is on the master w/ mostly support from the pet.

SMN the emphasis is so much on the pet I would expect all gear to augment the pet.

BST is probably where the contrast is most pronounced. both share the melee role quite equally.... the gear adds pet+ or main+ if you try to boost pet, you are usually foregoing several pieces that boost the master much more.

well said....

[Nu-Hir]

I'd like to see a change in a mechanic...specifically for DRG. At the very least, can we have an Assault and Heel command?

It will never happen. Did you not pay attention when you unlocked Drg? Your Wyvern is sentient and has a mind of its own unlike Avatars/Elementals, Automatons, and pets. These pets cannot think for themselves and must be told what to do by their master. You are not your wyvern's master, you are its friend.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

my three favorite jobs, and the only three I really want to bring to 99, are DRG DNC and PUP, and I really hope to see PUP shine, I really have fun with the job, and have kicked some major butt solo with it. PUP can be crazy, but it would do better if they could wear at least middle class armor, and not just cloth/light class (been a while since I have played, if this is different please correct me)

[RAIST]

actually, avatars and elementals do have an independent AI, just not as advanced as Wyvern. BST pets do too some degree (unfortunately when things get hairy they sometimes switch target on you, which is annoying).

I can see not being able to tell it to use breaths on demand (although, you do it by casting magic), but I don't see why we shouldn't have a simple attack and heel command for it too. DRG obviously have a bond and communicate with their wyverns...don't see why we can't say "sick 'em boy" and "hey, get over here!"

Raist

[Nu-Hir]

DRG obviously have a bond and communicate with their wyverns...don't see why we can't say "sick 'em boy" and "hey, get over here!"

Because people are sick of the stupid beastmasters, summoners, and puppetmasters who have those annoying macros, and don't want to have another job with a bunch of idiots doing the same?

[Harmless]

I play all of the pet jobs fairly often and off the top of my head here's what I'd like to see:

BST
After the past few updates I can't really think of any huge change that is needed. I'd like to continue seeing new Jugs from 90-99. I'd also like to see the return to Charming mobs instead of just throwing jugs at stuff. Give me a reason to have all the charming gear I have =P. As others have already stated, I'd like to see more gear with buffs to the pet and masters both as well, similar to the Cirque Attire set.

PUP
This job needs much more than BST at this point imo. I'd love to see a new series of weaponskills for our automatons as well as some new attachments. I leveled PUP to 75 within weeks of the jobs creation (to the ridicule of many I might add) and I always looked forward to the updates because at the time they were adding loads of new attachments. IIRC they haven't added any since Coiler and Steam Jacket ; ; Another thing that SE has been much better about lately is giving us gear that is less "magey" and more DD. I'd like to see them continue with that... although I'll prolly piss a lot of people off, I think PUP should be added to MNK/SAM/NIN line of gear completely.

DRG
This job is already a DD powerhouse but I'd personally like to see more emphasis on the Wyvern. While I liked the additions to the AF3, I think even more focus needs to go to the wyvern for those of us who like to play the job "off the beaten path". Giving us more control over the wyvern would be nice. Maybe some more breath attacks/buffs that we can control like enfeebling offensive breaths (Frost Breath = Paralyze, Earth Breath = Slow, Lighting Breath = Stun ect...) and enhancing defensive breaths (Regen Breath, Refresh Breath, Haste Breath lol idk) even if we could only trigger those breaths when the wyvern has TP (similar to Ready for BST). I also would LOVE to see an ability similar to Dues Ex Automata for DRG. For the minor role that the wyvern presently play (offensively anyways) I've never understood the need for a 20 minute recast on Call Wyvern.

SMN
I'm having a hard time thinking of what this job needs atm. I think the job is pretty balanced in respect to the role it plays. I guess some things that would be a welcome addition from my point of view would be more Blood Pacts, both Rage and Ward from 90-99 (which we will no doubt get). I also would like to see at least 1 more Avatar added. Not so much out of necessity but just more options. I for one was disappointed with how Odin and to a lesser extent Alexander operated when released. Alexander is very useful at times but Odin seems very lackluster for the cost of our 2 hour. I'm not entirely sure which avatar could be added but something impressive. At 99 when there is a good chance BLM's will be casting Meteor and other jobs no doubt will have their flashy new abilities, I'd like whip out something impressive myself =) (an Avatar that is lol)

[Tsukino_Kaji]

BST needs more beast gear and less master gear.
PUP is ignored in a lot of updates and I don't care about it.
DRG is fine, it's about stabbing things, not sic'ing you dragon on things.
SMN needs Bahamut.

[Odintius]

Think Odin and Alexnder should have another quest to open there BP once 99.

[Coldbrand]

I'm really not looking for more wyvern stuff short of a new tier of healing breath. I'd really hoping SE focuses on giving us the rest of the Dragoon's traditional repertoire, especially Lancet. Freya had a ton of awesome abilities that we could pull from, and if it's instead wasted on stupid crap like sending my wyvern to attack manually, I'll be pretty thoroughly peeved.

[Odintius]

Always thought bst could should be able to use the pet from Pankration be able to level it and have another pet with jug or charm pet. eh wishful thinking lol

[Xilk]

actually, avatars and elementals do have an independent AI, just not as advanced as Wyvern. BST pets do too some degree (unfortunately when things get hairy they sometimes switch target on you, which is annoying).

I can see not being able to tell it to use breaths on demand (although, you do it by casting magic), but I don't see why we shouldn't have a simple attack and heel command for it too. DRG obviously have a bond and communicate with their wyverns...don't see why we can't say "sick 'em boy" and "hey, get over here!"

Raist

Because Wyvern are a type of dragon, and you just don't tell Dragon's to do anything. They do what they darn well please, when they please. I hesitate to call the Dragoon the 'master' in this situation because frankly... you're just friends.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Because Wyvern are a type of dragon, and you just don't tell Dragon's to do anything. They do what they darn well please, when they please. I hesitate to call the Dragoon the 'master' in this situation because frankly... you're just friends.What DRGs control in this game is dragon and not a wyvern. I always caulked that up to poor editing.

[Xilk]

What DRGs control in this game is dragon and not a wyvern. I always caulked that up to poor editing.

Well, if you REALLY want to quibble....

In this game a dragon is something Undead. and what DRG really has is a baby Wyrm. with a Wyvern being something between a Wyrm and a raptor.

You still don't issue commands to it.

Oh, and for BST? Already have a thread on it in bst forums, we should get Skillchain + Pet. :P

As far as gear goes... The needs of each pet type are diverse enough, there are few things all the jobs would want in gear.

[Flunklesnarkin]

not sure if anybody has mentioned it yet...

but i want a new upgraded courier carrie jug

I'm ok without skill chains off my pet or hybrid commands.. just bring back carrie D:!

[Tsukino_Kaji]

In this game a dragon is something Undead. and what DRG really has is a baby Wyrm. with a Wyvern being something between a Wyrm and a raptor.A wyvern is something having only legs or none, with wings and no arms. A dragon is sometihng with all 6 appendanges. A wyrm is akin to a legless lizzard, having none. And the shadow dragon, albeit draconion and undead is not the only dragon in this game. i.e. Fafnir, tiamat, etc. Which are much better examples.

[Zyeriis]

A wyvern is something having only legs or none, with wings and no arms. A dragon is sometihng with all 6 appendanges. A wyrm is akin to a legless lizzard, having none. And the shadow dragon, albeit draconion and undead is not the only dragon in this game. i.e. Fafnir, tiamat, etc. Which are much better examples.

Pretty sure Bahamut is the Wyrmking not the Dragonking :/

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Bahamut is a fish with a hippo or elephant head.

[Xilk]

not sure if anybody has mentioned it yet...

but i want a new upgraded courier carrie jug

I'm ok without skill chains off my pet or hybrid commands.. just bring back carrie D:!

having a high level aquan and a pld class pet again would be cool. doesn't have to be carrie, imo.
Carrie was no 1 for 2 reasons:
she was cheap
She was actually available

It was not because she was the best...
then again... she's the only one w/ a cool/unique model....

[Xilk]

A wyvern is something having only legs or none, with wings and no arms. A dragon is sometihng with all 6 appendanges. A wyrm is akin to a legless lizzard, having none. And the shadow dragon, albeit draconion and undead is not the only dragon in this game. i.e. Fafnir, tiamat, etc. Which are much better examples.

obviously I'm referring to the existing classification system in the game...

[Tsukino_Kaji]

obviously I'm referring to the existing classification system in the game...And obviously I was saying to begin with that the clasications they used were wrong.

[Zyeriis]

Dead Horse response: Final Fantasy

[Tsukino_Kaji]

FantasyAnd dragons are not? lol

[Xilk]

And obviously I was saying to begin with that the clasications they used were wrong.

If there is any Cannon applicable to a fictional world, it is that of the creators of the fictional world only.
I.E> consistency to world itself only...

[Zyeriis]

And dragons are not? lol
Fantasy vs. Myth
Fantasy is what it's creator makes it.
Myth is something historical that wasn't actually true (things that fall into this category: dragons and greek mythology, etc.)

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Myth is something historical that wasn't actually true (things that fall into this category: dragons and greek mythology, etc.)Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. lol

[Penance]

I personally would like gear for the pets that make them look differently, like how they implemented pup but then the same for avatars.

[Komori]

And put what on these magical representations of the slumbering gods? Lol.

Avatars are weaker versions of the slumbering gods that you have created a pact with because you've shown them that you have strength and courage that makes them feel worthy enough for you to use them. I'm not sure how much they would like to play dress-up however, if they would like people fiddling with their coloring or slapping crowns on them or anything of the sort lol.

I would like to see PUP be able to use gear that isn't AF/Empyrean and still be geared nicely. I'd also like to see more frames modeling other jobs; I think that would be fine. Not sure what other jobs though and like most people would like to see more attachments as well as a little more control on the spells and weaponskills that the puppets use. But that's my only complaint about the job.

[Rennix]

If drg is a pet job I guess every other job is a pet job cause they can summon an adventuring fellow.

[Etrigan]

plain and simple, more pup attachments. More gear alternatives, and a new frame couldn't hurt....

[KorPoni]

If drg is a pet job I guess every other job is a pet job cause they can summon an adventuring fellow.

All jobs can have an adventuring fellow, that takes up a seperate slot from pets. That isn't even a valid comparison.

[Legomike]

forgive me if mentioned havent read yet but they should just let pets get all/half the stats on gear and get rid of "pet" part. just going with scorpion harness would 10/5 acc and eva really be all that bad for your pet? a master of said pet shouldnt have to choose to be gimp for the pet to be better

[Rennix]

All jobs can have an adventuring fellow, that takes up a seperate slot from pets. That isn't even a valid comparison.

lol when the wyvern is about as controlable as the advernturing fellow i think it's a valid argument.

[Zyeriis]

Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. lol
Poor phrasing, I literally went to sleep seconds after posting that at 4am.

[Dallas]

We basically need pet job gear that improves both the owner and the pet. Anything less is half as effective as a normal job.

[Malamasala]

Summoner will always be the job that had potential, but then was just terribly mistreated.

I'll point out a few of them.

A)

The job has high staff skill, and no spells. The pet fights mainly on its own. Great design to allow for you to melee alongside of your pet.

But as we all know... the job got no melee gear. It got no EX weaponskills (except mythic). It didn't even get melee traits, while it was at least as reasonable to make a melee out of SMN as of PUP or BLU.

B)

The job has excellent range of debuffs on their Blood Pact: Rage. Bind, Blind, Slow, Paralyze, Poison, Gravity, Stun.

And as we all know... they share timers so you can't possibly waste the timer on debuffs, but have to use the DD pacts. So a job as great at debuffing as RDM or BLU... is left as one of the least useful debuffing jobs in the game.

Not to mention the ready time of Stun is longer than almost all spells (meteor is the only spell long enough to stun. And only on KB).

C)

For some reason SE decided to go with "mind link" story and add perpetuation.

Which was probably one of the dumbest design choices in the history of video games. The result was that SMN could hardly even be counted as a pet job, because it never had any pet except for the 10 seconds it took to BP each minute. Which calculated is 1/6 of the time. Which translated to wyvern recast time, means the wyvern always died after 3 minutes and you waited the remaining 17 for recast with no pet. Pretty crazy, isn't it? 5/6 of your gaming time, you are petless. PUPs who had 20 min recast automatons and lost their pets after 5 minutes raged on the forums, and they still had a pet 1/4 of the time. But Summoners? They somehow brainwashed themselves into "It was meant to be this way, lets throw cures!"

The irony is of course that if you stick around long enough, you'll at 90 in full empyrean armor be able to have pets for free with refresh, and play as the game was intended to be played. Well, assuming you want to claim it was intended that all your armor slots would be occupied with "fix perpetuation" slots instead of melee stats, when the job has nothing else to give than staff damage.

So what does that all tell us? It was not imbalanced without perpetuation... so it was only around to make Summoner a bad job.



If the job had just been done right from the start, Summoners would have been staff DDs with a glowing pet by their side, throwing out support in forms of buffs and debuffs. Basically a DRG doing less damage and more support. Or you could compare it to a COR, except those have no pets.

[Alderin]

At 99, I expect my Wyvern to grow some balls and be a big dragon instead of a rat with wings. I thought it was kind of cool years ago when I started levelling Dragoon, but surely over the many years, you would think my Wyvern would grow a little and become a little more badarse.

[Zyeriis]

At 99, I expect my Wyvern to grow some balls and be a big dragon instead of a rat with wings. I thought it was kind of cool years ago when I started levelling Dragoon, but surely over the many years, you would think my Wyvern would grow a little and become a little more badarse.
Different color pallete would be nice as well. why are they all blue?

[JagerForrester]

I just want to throw this out for aging knowledge. You know it's been almost 200 Vana'diel years since the game released? Our players should be dried up old carcasses, galkan players should be the only ones able to keep living cuz of their no genital reproduction system, and our wyverns should have grown up at least to drake size or more, ripping those galkas' heads off as they run through Kuftal Tunnel.

[RabidSquirrel]

They should just get rid of the blood pact rage and ward cooldowns and give each individual ability its own personal cooldown. With a perpetuation cost and a fairly expensive MP cost for spells, summoners are already limited quite enough. Or lower the cap on blood pact ability delay. A minimum of 45 seconds is still crazy.

[Alderin]

Different color pallete would be nice as well. why are they all blue?

Yep that works too.

[Dauntless]

If drg is a pet job I guess every other job is a pet job cause they can summon an adventuring fellow.

My word you're dense. Are you aware that DRGs can summon Wyverns AND their adventuring fellows at the same time? Does this make DRG a double pet job? Your logic is incredibly flawed. Please, for your own sake, stop posting.

Thanks.

[Zyeriis]

I just want to throw this out for aging knowledge. You know it's been almost 200 Vana'diel years since the game released? Our players should be dried up old carcasses, galkan players should be the only ones able to keep living cuz of their no genital reproduction system, and our wyverns should have grown up at least to drake size or more, ripping those galkas' heads off as they run through Kuftal Tunnel.

We're all clearly immortal disregarding that, even if we die, we can always consciously and magically return to a home point crystal :D despite being "knocked out" or dead, which ever floats your boat, because if we can only be "knocked out", then we truly are....immortal. The death spell is also, non-permanent :D

[Alderin]

Rennix obviously has DRG at lvl 1.

You control your wyvern pre-lvl90 by support jobs - timed casting to trigger healing breath, as well as WS's for elemental.
You have to keep your pet alive, using spirit link.

Not to mention DRG's DoT drastically decreases if you don't have a pet, since your pet does about 1/2 your normal melee damage.

Not to mention all the commands associated with your wyvern are under /pet.

Level your Dragoon beyond 10 and I will begin listening to your opinions on DRG.

[Rennix]

Rennix obviously has DRG at lvl 1.

You control your wyvern pre-lvl90 by support jobs - timed casting to trigger healing breath, as well as WS's for elemental.
You have to keep your pet alive, using spirit link.

Not to mention DRG's DoT drastically decreases if you don't have a pet, since your pet does about 1/2 your normal melee damage.

Not to mention all the commands associated with your wyvern are under /pet.

Level your Dragoon beyond 10 and I will begin listening to your opinions on DRG.

No pet jobs have to use a sub to control their pets, and this is why it falls into more of the catagory of adventuring fellow. You can change their job but you don't really have much control with that they attack and they cant attack on their own. I see the the flying rat more as a glorified adventuring fellow more then a pet you can control freely. My drg is 32 ^,^ so your level 1 argument is kinda mute.


My word you're dense. Are you aware that DRGs can summon Wyverns AND their adventuring fellows at the same time? Does this make DRG a double pet job? Your logic is incredibly flawed. Please, for your own sake, stop posting.

Thanks.


lol you dont see me calling you names, but that's ok I dont get butt hurt when people add thier opions. And no you wouldnt be a double pet job cause drg isnt a pet job to begin with. Honestly in a pet burn pt you dont see drgs. In pet LS you dont see drgs or people shouting for drgs to join them.

Brd can have a pet and a npc and we dont call them a pet job.

[Dauntless]

No pet jobs have to use a sub to control their pets, and this is why it falls into more of the catagory of adventuring fellow. You can change their job but you don't really have much control with that they attack and they cant attack on their own. I see the the flying rat more as a glorified adventuring fellow more then a pet you can control freely. My drg is 32 ^,^ so your level 1 argument is kinda mute.




lol you dont see me calling you names, but that's ok I dont get butt hurt when people add thier opions. And no you wouldnt be a double pet job cause drg isnt a pet job to begin with. Honestly in a pet burn pt you dont see drgs. In pet LS you dont see drgs or people shouting for drgs to join them.

Brd can have a pet and a npc and we dont call them a pet job.

Problem is you're not adding your opinion (I hope. If you are... that's just sad), you're simply trolling.

Please don't assume that you know facts. I'm familiar with PLENTY of pet LS's that recruit DRGs whether it's for high DPS, healing, or temp tanking. Again, none of this would be possible without our Wyverns.

Your argument that DRGs are not pet jobs because we can't control our Wyvern is moot. Adventuring fellows cast buffs/heals of their own accord, we have no control over it. For DRGs we can use smiting or Healing breaths to heal/use an attack whenever we want. Not to mention that our 2hr is completely dependent upon our PET. Please give me a list of jobs who's 2hrs is based upon their adventuring fellows.

Right. There are none.

Keep in mind that our strongest job abilities (Soul and Spirit jumps) are completely contingent upon our wyverns to be decent in effectiveness.

Simply because DRG is COMPLETELY dependent upon their Wyverns does not mean that it isn't a pet job. We control what our Wyverns do whether it's directly (Smiting breath, Healing Breath) or indirectly (Weaponskilling, casting a spell below a certain amount of HP, using Super jump)

[Rennix]

Problem is you're not adding your opinion (I hope. If you are... that's just sad), you're simply trolling.

Please don't assume that you know facts. I'm familiar with PLENTY of pet LS's that recruit DRGs whether it's for high DPS, healing, or temp tanking. Again, none of this would be possible without our Wyverns.

Your argument that DRGs are not pet jobs because we can't control our Wyvern is moot. Adventuring fellows cast buffs/heals of their own accord, we have no control over it. For DRGs we can use smiting or Healing breaths to heal/use an attack whenever we want. Not to mention that our 2hr is completely dependent upon our PET. Please give me a list of jobs who's 2hrs is based upon their adventuring fellows.

Right. There are none.

Keep in mind that our strongest job abilities (Soul and Spirit jumps) are completely contingent upon our wyverns to be decent in effectiveness.

Simply because DRG is COMPLETELY dependent upon their Wyverns does not mean that it isn't a pet job. We control what our Wyverns do whether it's directly (Smiting breath, Healing Breath) or indirectly (Weaponskilling, casting a spell below a certain amount of HP, using Super jump)

By no means am i trolling :) . Im just throwing my 2 cents out there and backing up what im saying is all, unlike some of these other post here that give no sound counter argumnet and have to resort to belittling the other posters opions or comments with name calling or the "no your wrong and I'm right" with no opion of their own.

So thanks for replying with a sound argument.

Moving on ^^,

As for Pet LS recruiting drgs, that's new to me cause most LS of the type use the throw a pet at the mob till it dies method to kill things, and I dont really see how drg fits into that setup. maybe there is stratagy where a drg can tank somehow but wouldnt a pld or nin be more suited if a tank is absolutly need? Sorry i dont have much experience with drg tanks and i havent seen many tank. Besides if you stagger the pets you dont really need a tank in most cases.

Your second paragraph comes back to my glorified adventuring fellow statement. The drg 2hr doesnt do anything to enhance the pet but yourself unlike smn bst and pup where their 2hr ability enhances their pets. Its more of a Ima eatchu to make me poke harder sort of thing. Soul Jump and Spirit Jump can both be used without the wyvrn present unlike smn bst and pup witch have to have thier pets present to use their abilities. So the wyvrn is there to cheer you on so you hit harder and attack like an adventuring fellow. With the adition of being able to control your breath attacks now is where the glorified is coming from.

So you are not 100% dependent on your flying friend unlike pup bst and smn who with out their pets are pretty much usless. Sure we can poke things with our weapons, not as good as a drg, all our abilities go down the hole, but drgs doesnt. This furthers the fact that its more of an upped Adventuring fellow compared to a pet.

[Zyeriis]

By no means am i trolling :) . Im just throwing my 2 cents out there and backing up what im saying is all, unlike some of these other post here that give no sound counter argumnet and have to resort to belittling the other posters opions or comments with name calling or the "no your wrong and I'm right" with no opion of their own.

So thanks for replying with a sound argument.

Moving on ^^,

As for Pet LS recruiting drgs, that's new to me cause most LS of the type use the throw a pet at the mob till it dies method to kill things, and I dont really see how drg fits into that setup. maybe there is stratagy where a drg can tank somehow but wouldnt a pld or nin be more suited if a tank is absolutly need? Sorry i dont have much experience with drg tanks and i havent seen many tank. Besides if you stagger the pets you dont really need a tank in most cases.

Your second paragraph comes back to my glorified adventuring fellow statement. The drg 2hr doesnt do anything to enhance the pet but yourself unlike smn bst and pup where their 2hr ability enhances their pets. Its more of a Ima eatchu to make me poke harder sort of thing. Soul Jump and Spirit Jump can both be used without the wyvrn present unlike smn bst and pup witch have to have thier pets present to use their abilities. So the wyvrn is there to cheer you on so you hit harder and attack like an adventuring fellow. With the adition of being able to control your breath attacks now is where the glorified is coming from.

So you are not 100% dependent on your flying friend unlike pup bst and smn who with out their pets are pretty much usless. Sure we can poke things with our weapons, not as good as a drg, all our abilities go down the hole, but drgs doesnt. This furthers the fact that its more of an upped Adventuring fellow compared to a pet.

DRG has the ability to draw hate from a pet that is about to die, or from the beastmaster themselves, giving the beastmaster time to bring out another pet (or whatever), then super jump to remove enmity and have the pet tank again. Paladin cannot do this, nor can ninja.

SMN can be used without it's pet (healing), in other roles in the same sense that Dragoon can be used in other roles, with it's pet. That argument is relatively moot.

The argument revolving around bsts/smns/pups enhancing their pets through their 2hr versus the pet enhancing the drg through it's 2 hour is like arguing that heads and tails aren't both part of a quarter.

[Rennix]

DRG has the ability to draw hate from a pet that is about to die, or from the beastmaster themselves, giving the beastmaster time to bring out another pet (or whatever), then super jump to remove enmity and have the pet tank again. Paladin cannot do this, nor can ninja.

SMN can be used without it's pet (healing), in other roles in the same sense that Dragoon can be used in other roles, with it's pet. That argument is relatively moot.

The argument revolving around bsts/smns/pups enhancing their pets through their 2hr versus the pet enhancing the drg through it's 2 hour is like arguing that heads and tails aren't both part of a quarter.

war thf dnc all have the ability to draw hate. Doesnt make them a pet job.

Smn can only heal because of ist sub job unlike drg witch still has the use of its abilties even without a sub

Still the drgs 2hr doesnt do anything to help their pet. Your heads and tales argument doesnt stand really just because they ocupy the same space doesnt mean they are the same. You can make your son and daughter share the same room, but one is a boy the other a girl. Thus heads is heads and tales is tales, if they were the same everyone would win on a coin flip.

[Zyeriis]

war thf dnc all have the ability to draw hate. Doesnt make them a pet job.

Smn can only heal because of ist sub job unlike drg witch still has the use of its abilties even without a sub

Still the drgs 2hr doesnt do anything to help their pet. Your heads and tales argument doesnt stand really just because they ocupy the same space doesnt mean they are the same. You can make your son or daughter share the same room, but one is a boy the other a girl. Thus heads is heads and tales is tales, if they were the same everyone would win on a coin flip.

Did you actually read that :/ Yeah they all have the ability to draw hate, how many of those have the ability to set hate to 0? Thf has enmity transfer abilities, yes but that requires another player, not a pet, it is also a transfer, not a value reset.

Have you even listened to the arguments? Drg does not have access to all it's abilities through the wyvern without certain sub jobs. I believe this was a counter argument to the Drg is a pet-job side. Now it's a counter to the opposite, weird isn't it?

You clearly misunderstood my heads and tails analogy. Each is different, that's the point, but they are still 2 sides of the same coin: pet jobs or pet job 2hrs. I'm saying their both part of the same coin, not that they're the same.

[Rennix]

Did you actually read that :/ Yeah they all have the ability to draw hate, how many of those have the ability to set hate to 0? Thf has enmity transfer abilities, yes but that requires another player, not a pet, it is also a transfer, not a value reset.

Have you even listened to the arguments? Drg does not have access to all it's abilities through the wyvern without certain sub jobs. I believe this was a counter argument to the Drg is a pet-job side. Now it's a counter to the opposite, weird isn't it?

You clearly misunderstood my heads and tails analogy. Each is different, that's the point, but they are still 2 sides of the same coin: pet jobs or pet job 2hrs. I'm saying their both part of the same coin, not that they're the same.

In your previous post you said nothing about reseting it to zero, besides that's comes from the drg not its flying friend. thus is unique to the drg, this still can be used without the flying rat, unlike bst snarl ability with you must have your pet for.

Drg still has most of its abilities, without a sub unlike smn bst or pup that have none they can do without a pet. unless you wanna count feral howl lol, but bst still has control on what its pet can do. DRG can still jump without its friend.

As for the heads and tails thing you can say the same for blm and whm they are both mages but one is a healer and one is a dd. Bst pup smn are pet jobs drg is a job with an extra adventuring fellow. They both have an npc but being able to have full control over it makes it a pet job.

[Zyeriis]

In your previous post you said nothing about reseting it to zero, besides that's comes from the drg not its flying friend. thus is unique to the drg, this still can be used without the flying rat, unlike bst snarl ability with you must have your pet for.

Drg still has most of its abilities, without a sub unlike smn bst or pup that have none they can do without a pet. unless you wanna count feral howl lol, but bst still has control on what its pet can do. DRG can still jump without its friend.

As for the heads and tails thing you can say the same for blm and whm they are both mages but one is a healer and one is a dd. Bst pup smn are pet jobs drg is a job with an extra adventuring fellow. They both have an npc but being able to have full control over it makes it a pet job.




DRG has the ability to draw hate from a pet that is about to die, or from the beastmaster themselves, giving the beastmaster time to bring out another pet (or whatever), then super jump to remove enmity and have the pet tank again. Paladin cannot do this, nor can ninja.

SMN can be used without it's pet (healing), in other roles in the same sense that Dragoon can be used in other roles, with it's pet. That argument is relatively moot.

The argument revolving around bsts/smns/pups enhancing their pets through their 2hr versus the pet enhancing the drg through it's 2 hour is like arguing that heads and tails aren't both part of a quarter.

As for the blm/whm thing...exactly? They're both mages...that do the opposite of each other? Your logic here is untraceable.

[Ezikiel]

i'm seeing the most retarded argument yet okfor those who dont think DRG is a pet job comment on the other pet jobs for those that do think DRG is a pet job add something if you feel but giving your point of view that you dont think DRG is a pet job who cares

[Rennix]

As for the blm/whm thing...exactly? They're both mages...that do the opposite of each other? Your logic here is untraceable.


Drg and bst both have npc a bst controls its pet while a drg works with it the best i can. THey both have npc but how they use them is different. Whm and blm both use magic but how they use them are different.


DRG has the ability to draw hate from a pet that is about to die, or from the beastmaster themselves, giving the beastmaster time to bring out another pet (or whatever), then super jump to remove enmity and have the pet tank again.

Thf has the ability to manipulate hate to away from pets or players giving the bst time to bring out another pet (or whaterver) then they can hide to remove enimity to have the pet tank again. or they can even give it away so the bst can but it back on thier pet.

[Malamasala]

Rennix, I think it is rather sad that you can spend this much time arguing about something you are wrong on.

It could also be easily solved by just wearing "pet dmg reduction" gear and fighting a cactuar. Not that you'd believe anyone telling you the result.

[Rennix]

brd has the ability to control a pet but its not a pet job? damage reduction gear works on it.

Ill give it up now though, since my opinion is wrong, sorry.

[Zyeriis]

Drg and bst both have npc a bst controls its pet while a drg works with it the best i can. THey both have npc but how they use them is different. Whm and blm both use magic but how they use them are different.



Thf has the ability to manipulate hate to away from pets or players giving the bst time to bring out another pet (or whaterver) then they can hide to remove enimity to have the pet tank again. or they can even give it away so the bst can but it back on thier pet.

Part 1: yet again, exactly?

Part 2: Thf isn't affected by corsair pet rolls, Drg is, because it's a pet job and has a pet. Thus thf would never get such an invite, as Drg is clearly the superior choice in that situation. If you want to argue that the thf can pull, so can the cor in this situation. Also, last I checked (pre-80 cap update), Thf's hate abilities don't work on pets. Sure, you can transfer hate to the Bst, but that's a horrible idea. Hide, sure, it would work but Dragoon actually has three abilities that shed enmity at this point in time, the two newer one's effects are also increased when you have your wyvern.

Side note: It is possible to manipulate your wyvern regardless of sub job via Super Jump (Wyvern performs Super Climb, allowing it to evade attacks while in the air with you, a form of support), Spirit Link (supports pet by healing it), there's also Smiting breath pet command and the Restoring breath pet command. What more do you need to classify Dragoon as a pet job? A Dimiss pet command...oh wait...has that too.

[Glamdring]

Blood pact timer should be re-evaluated and whether or not it should remain capped at -15 recast. Don't know why this cap exists in the first place and in my opinion it's just detrimental to smn at this stage in the game. Should at least be lowered.

play a bard for a bit, then let's discuss recast timers, lol!

[Zyeriis]

Brds are clearly just forgetful musicians. The sad part? They only know one song.

[Glamdring]

On-topic: I don't have extensive experience with any other pet jobs but there are changes I would like to see made to DRG such as Wyvern armor and a decrease of magical/physical damage taken as many mobs AoE often and with a 20 minute recast it's a pain to be Wyvernless for long periods of time since Soul and Spirit jumps rely on our wyvern being out for effectiveness.

I agree. However, in Abyssea I have had excellent luck with my pets using Aquatic Ardor or Despot Atmas to keep my beast pets out longer, I would assume it works for wyvrens as well. Still, something in the future like a Deus ex Automata for Drg would only be fair. Unfortunately, outside Abyssea you are totally screwed, agreed.

[Nattack]

dragoon is what id call a reverse role pet job.

while the other three focus on the pet, in drgs case, the pet focuses on the player. soloing is done by suggestion and not by command.

so, its not a pet job in the sense that your wyvern is kind of weak compared to all other pets. you can bring a bst, a pup, and a smn to the same party and strategize with pets, a drg is excluded. the idea is to play with very little hate on oneself, and throw more tanks at it. which is the reverse on how a drg uses their pet for solo.

[Zyeriis]

dragoon is what id call a reverse role pet job.

while the other three focus on the pet, in drgs case, the pet focuses on the player. soloing is done by suggestion and not by command.

so, its not a pet job in the sense that your wyvern is kind of weak compared to all other pets. you can bring a bst, a pup, and a smn to the same party and strategize with pets, a drg is excluded. the idea is to play with very little hate on oneself, and throw more tanks at it. which is the reverse on how a drg uses their pet for solo.

The Wyvern still relies upon the Dragoon in its entirety. It can do absolutely nothing without some form of input from the player be it a weaponskill, job ability, or spell.

[Nattack]

obviously?

[Zyeriis]

obviously?
Wasn't really disagreeing with you, not fully anyway.
Pup doesn't actually have a lot of control over their pet yet, it's considered a pet job (cause it has a pet that the player is there to support under some people's interpretation). My problem is, that's a matter of play style as the Whm Automaton does the opposite. So when that model is out, PUP is no longer qualified as a "pet job" but rather a "reverse pet job"?

[Dauntless]

Zyer took the words right off of my keyboard.

[Glamdring]

The fact is, all of the pet jobs (including drg) have different strengths and weaknesses and pet AI plays a huge part in that. A common complaint for bst is that their pet will switch targets on its own, a wyvern or puppet don't. Smn avatars have crap HP, the other 3 pets are all better at taking hits (although titan can take a pounding... for an avatar). Puppets deal terrific damage without pulling near the hate of jobs they emulate. Any of these can be factored into a proper party build where the focus is to fill holes in the roles of members.

Now, my only capped pet job is beast, I'm leveling pup but it's currently only 26. In Abyssea I'm using all 3 level 75 expansion set pieces (ASA, MKT, ACP) with pet buffs and beast affinity 5/5 merits. It's costing me a fortune in jugs. With Atmas on I haven't found a player yet that can get hate off my pet for more than a couple seconds unless they brew! Unfortunately, my LS rarely targets NMs that drop bst stuff so I haven't been able to get gear that augments me and gets hate (and thus survivability) to reasonable levels. We usually pet burn the tougher NMs with most pets being SMN; I hate bringing my beast to those sessions because I usually end up going through an entire stack of jugs in 1 2hour run since the only way I can heal my pet enough is to flux out since they can never get hate.

I'll get to use the same gear on pup when I reach that level unless I manage to get my full relic ( and might still use those pieces that are better). Some gear that will let me manage things on the hate front by balancing strength between me and my pet would be appreciated.

[Miera]

Okay here's what I thought of...

SMN

Summoner was my first job to 75, I loved it however there were a few things that disappointed me about the job..

1. Carbuncle, Fenrir and Diabolos have NO merit abilities.I'd like to see a Healing Ruby III or maybe a Regainga or something that will make people want to use Carbuncle a little more. I love Fenny, he's my favorite avatar but now all people use is Garuda, she out does every avatar, which sucks. I wouldn't mind seeing him with a higher damage Bite attack that gives you a status effect like Crescent fang. Diabolos. the refresh whore and nothing less. He's got some pretty good debuffs and buffs, but unfortunately has no actual good damage dealing BP moves.

PUP

My second pet job I leveled, I love the job, it's different, It's fun! but the lack in DD gear is killing me, I don't know what SE were thinking when they gave PUPs to wear mage gear and not been able to give us actual DD gear.. I was pretty mad when I couldn't equip a scorpion harness at the right level and still was stick wearing the same old broke down rusted old useless gear until I was able to wear relic.

We need more attachments, I am pretty happy that Automatons get gear and equi[ps of their own but it's not enough, I'd like to see more variety... Like Maybe give one that makes the Sharpshot shoots bloody bolts or acid bolts or something I mean you have Enthunder one why not that?

Fast Cast one, I'd like to see something that enhances Fast Cast of the automaton, it's make things pretty sweet.

Fix their Cure Priority, It's all jacked up. I'm not sure what's going on half the time when my Puppet wants to heal my status effect before curing me, it's ridiculous.

Better AI, this goes with the mage frames still. Mage frames have it to there depending on a enemy's HP is determines the spell it uses, so why not depending on the MASTER, PET and PARTY's HP is depends on what tier of cure it should be using. No need for a Cure VI when I only need 200 HP back.
Also what's up with the BLM frame and him thinking he's low on MP and not wanting to cast nothing but Aspit at like 85% MP when he only Aspirs for like 10 MP? that's stupid.

GIVE US A STAY COMMAND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!
Seriously, my WHM and BLM and RDM frame need to stay put. I understand that they stay in a certain maximum range as the mob or master and it tends to fallow but NOT only that but once it has run out of MP or something is too far from it, the pet will engage them and it's frustrating especially against a AOE spamming mob or a mob that casts AOE magic spells or has a annoying aura. Give us a stay command so we can tell it to sit there and like it.

Make the Valor Edge frame worth using again. Since the new updates lately the only frames people ever play anymore are the Soulsoother, Sharpshot and Soulreiver frames. I've been trying to find different atmas and variations to make it more efficient but his tanking skills in abyssea is nothing like how it used to be back in the day with Campaign mobs. When he's up with harder enemies it goes down pretty dang fast. SE said in one of the updates with PUP that they made Valor Edge's frame made to tank like a real live PLD but I just don't see it, maybe he has more HP now but he's not busting out with any cures like a PLD. Give him cures, I don't care if its I, II and cure III. Cannibal blade doesn't cut it anymore, I don't care if he only gets to cure himself, just give him Cure D:

Cirque Animator. Need I say more?


BST
The most recent job I took to 90. I got to say this job is also pretty fun but what's with all the CHR stats on the new AF pieces? Is it for weapon skills or does SE think we will be charming mobs out side of abyssea still?

My real only concern is more jugs, I know we will get more when we hit the next level cap, I am hoping for a better choice in jugs. I miss having a Tank pet CurrierCarrie was a pretty dencent pet but since now her level cap only reaches a certain point she's become useless. I'd love to see a new tank pet, be it a crab, beetle or slime.

Hecteyes jugs, all pet jobs except BST can use magic spells, hecteyes are the only charmable mob out there that can use spells. Gives us a hecteyes pet!

Krakens: Why didn't SE think of giving us a Kraken? They have awesome abilities like Maelstrom and their Regen move, ect and not to mention probably better than the MNK mandragora pets out there doing better damage and attacking fast.

Dermites: the only DRK pets and I gotta say, I loved using Lifedrinkerlars.

Bird jugs I think we are missing bird types from the list.

Opo-Opos Give them the origional TP moves, Dispell, paralyze, and Magic fruit, who could ask for a better versatile pet like an Opo?
Dhamel: Healing Breeze gogo!

I maybe missing something but if I think of something I'll post it. ;)

[Alhanelem]

The one thing I think really needs to happen is for DRG to get a second wyvern summon like Deus ex Automata.

[Ryland]

They need to lower the entrance level to 1 in abyssea so I can level up bst without having to gain the 9 levels from 21-30. I only smn burned it from 11-21, and that's where it's stuck.

[Miera]

This is not the thread to post that, there are a million of threads about abyssea for you to talk about leveling your beast. This is a Suggestion thread, I'm surprised you can keep your sig for so long without them taking it down, it's freakishly huge.

[Ryland]

The thread is called "Discussion for All Pet Jobs." My bst is a pet job, and I was merely discussing how I would like to gain exp with it. I'm not following your logic here...

[Zyeriis]

The thread is called "Discussion for All Pet Jobs." My bst is a pet job, and I was merely discussing how I would like to gain exp with it. I'm not following your logic here...
Your sig is too big.

[KorPoni]

The thread is called "Discussion for All Pet Jobs." My bst is a pet job, and I was merely discussing how I would like to gain exp with it. I'm not following your logic here...

I created the thread. No, you're talking about abyssea, not bst. The suggestion relates to all jobs, and there are threads for talking about abyssea.

Anything you'd like to see FOR bst, like new abilities, jugs, gear, etc?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Okay here's what I thought of...

SMN

Summoner was my first job to 75, I loved it however there were a few things that disappointed me about the job..

1. Carbuncle, Fenrir and Diabolos have NO merit abilities.The reason is that 6 is the perfect fit for the merit limitation. You get them all, plus one max.

[Zyeriis]

I created the thread. No, you're talking about abyssea, not bst. The suggestion relates to all jobs, and there are threads for talking about abyssea.

Anything you'd like to see FOR bst, like new abilities, jugs, gear, etc?

As overpowered (or impossible) as it sounds, I'd like to see BST be able to have more than one pet out a time. What kind of beastmaster can only handle one animal at any given time?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

As overpowered (or impossible) as it sounds, I'd like to see BST be able to have more than one pet out a time. What kind of beastmaster can only handle one animal at any given time?Realy it's a game logistics problem. Pull out BST/SMN and try to have 2.

[Dauntless]

I created the thread. No, you're talking about abyssea, not bst. The suggestion relates to all jobs, and there are threads for talking about abyssea.

Anything you'd like to see FOR bst, like new abilities, jugs, gear, etc?


Ignore him, he's a troll

[Crotin]

I was just reading through the thread, and whoever laughed and thought a DRG can't solo is nuts. I didn't even catch the name I was so dumbfounded.

[Zyeriis]

I was just reading through the thread, and whoever laughed and thought a DRG can't solo is nuts. I didn't even catch the name I was so dumbfounded.
You are hardly alone on this matter.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I was just reading through the thread, and whoever laughed and thought a DRG can't solo is nuts. I didn't even catch the name I was so dumbfounded.No one ever said they can't, it was people reading half a post and assuming the rest. lol

[Dauntless]

No one ever said they can't, it was people reading half a post and assuming the rest. lol

It was compared to soloing as a WAR.. nuff said.

[Bigtop]

Blood pact timer should be re-evaluated and whether or not it should remain capped at -15 recast. Don't know why this cap exists in the first place and in my opinion it's just detrimental to smn at this stage in the game. Should at least be lowered.

This was actually changed to a cap, due to smn burns, when they made 2 separate blood pacts

[KorPoni]

As overpowered (or impossible) as it sounds, I'd like to see BST be able to have more than one pet out a time. What kind of beastmaster can only handle one animal at any given time?

Thought the exact same thing for puppetmaster, because it's puppetmaster. But, only one pet at a time. ><

[Bigtop]

Because people are sick of the stupid beastmasters, summoners, and puppetmasters who have those annoying macros, and don't want to have another job with a bunch of idiots doing the same?

LOL, I am a Beastmaster and Summoner for 8 over years and am very sick of those macros. I was after the first 2 min of seeing them.

[Dubberrucky]

Just to add my $.02 I would really love to be able to charm pets like a normal BST in abyssea. I guess that comes from being an old BST though and having a strong preference for charmed pets are over jugs. I would definitely take a hecteye jug though I loved them as pets against magic weak mobs. Maybe even give them just spells to cast for that pet as ready commands to keep them in balance with other pet jobs.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Because people are sick of the stupid beastmasters, summoners, and puppetmasters who have those annoying macros, and don't want to have another job with a bunch of idiots doing the same?Mine are all in /em. ^^

[Crotin]

DRG has never been mediocre DD. And why are you soloing on it, do you solo on WAR too? lol

Really? Do you even understand the job and the gear you can get that can make you and your wyvern do amazing things? /RDM you have refresh to always have MP for your wyvern heal you. Phalanx and other buffs. Drachen Armet + Wyrm Armet/Saurian Helm to gain an incredible amount of HP back, even more using Deep Breathing. Status effect hits you, you have Remove Breath if you do a WS which is easy to gain TP as a DRG. Jumps that can gain and take away hate from you. Spirit Link that drains you and gives your wyvern HP, which you can regain back easily. Super Jump to remove hate from both you and your wyvern so you can re-setup who'll start taking damage again between you and the wyvern when you land.

Not knocking you, I understand a DRG being compared to a WAR when the wyvern is dead, but a DRG is a complete monster when the wyvern is out and I think you'd be surprised seeing a good DRG solo something. A ton of DD and if hate is shifted the right way, the survivability is more than you think judging from your post.

[Malamasala]

This was actually changed to a cap, due to smn burns, when they made 2 separate blood pacts

Are you just making stuff up while you post?

When they made 2 separate blood pacts, there was no gear combinations to get past -15, so you have no idea to know this unless a developer told you. It wasn't until augments came around that you could get enough -BP timer to notice the cap.

And if SE cared about smn burns to set a 45 sec cap, they would have set a haste cap when melee began to haste up and zerg NMs. (Unless you want to claim SE developers hate Summoners and favor melee, which I could easily accept)

[Kailea_Nagisa]

Really? Do you even understand the job and the gear you can get that can make you and your wyvern do amazing things? /RDM you have refresh to always have MP for your wyvern heal you. Phalanx and other buffs. Drachen Armet + Wyrm Armet/Saurian Helm to gain an incredible amount of HP back, even more using Deep Breathing. Status effect hits you, you have Remove Breath if you do a WS which is easy to gain TP as a DRG. Jumps that can gain and take away hate from you. Spirit Link that drains you and gives your wyvern HP, which you can regain back easily. Super Jump to remove hate from both you and your wyvern so you can re-setup who'll start taking damage again between you and the wyvern when you land.

Not knocking you, I understand a DRG being compared to a WAR when the wyvern is dead, but a DRG is a complete monster when the wyvern is out and I think you'd be surprised seeing a good DRG solo something. A ton of DD and if hate is shifted the right way, the survivability is more than you think judging from your post.

yeah DRG can do some crazy stuff, over the years (before cap increase) I tried many combos with DRG, the normal ones and even some "off the wall" ones.
Oddly the one I started to really like was /BLU I got some of my STR back, that I loose when subbing a mage job, and I get regen and a few other status thingies. Casting Cocoon on myself is nice as well, and being able to foot kick to activate healing breath is handy. /BLU is not aways the best to go though, but when I want to do somthing siffrent, it is nice to mess with.


DRG is really the only DD that can sub a mage job, and it work properly for them, /SCH works very well too because of the capped skills using the books.

[vyhakeyo]

As one who love Pet Jobs, I must say, gear stinks. Though the AF3 for most Pet Jobs is really nice, if you get it to +2, I'm still using my original gear that I got with my PUP before the level cap changed and the AF3 gear came out. It's not over sentimental reason, it's my gear is better for what PUP can get until I can get all the +2. But pet jobs do need help. I personally would like to see us be able to take more control over what our pets can do.

Here is some things I would like to see....

For BST, I would like more control in the SIC...Instead of the pet doing a random TP move. Such as go into SIC and then another menu of the TP moves the pet can do, and chose from that.

For SMN, I would like to see what is a TP move and what is magic based....Separate the TP from the magic or at least put it in the info part of each move instead of * Description:Shiva deals ice damage to target. Maybe add on Depending on amount of TP or something to that matter.

For DRG, I have no comment, mine is only 24...But from what I have done on it, I would like a little more control over what the wyvren does and does not do...Maybe it gets better the higher the player gets, but doing all the back line jobs I have done, it seems there is little control over the wyvren.

Now for my most favorit job...PUP!!! I defiantly want more control over the automatons! Though I hardly use the other frames, and most of the time, the melee frames are not needed in most situations....I would love to have more control over what spells my automation casts. Can we gets more of an ability to put up more maneuvers to control our pet better? Such as, I always use the Stormwalker Body and Black Head...Granted my automation can even out nuke my 90 fully merited BLM in some situations, it gets rather annoying that even though I have the Scanner Attachment on, that my automation trys to silence a crab. A waste of MP there! There has been times I've wanted to use my PUP to solo on NM to get seals for it, but because I cant control what spells it casts, I cant get Yellow except certain times of the day, and even then that is iffy. So I would like to see when we use the Stormwalker Body and or head, the White Head, or the Black head, we be allowed to use 1 more maneuver to dictate what spells to cast in that group. Example: Stormwalker Body/Black Head: First maneuver tells what spell group to cast...In this case Earth Maneuver. Now my automation will cast Slow and all the stone spells. That way a PUP can go out and solo seals and be able to get Yellow and I dont have to go BLM all the time. LOL With White Head, I would also like more control over the spells too. It's a little annoying that I lost 300 HP and my automation casts Cure V. Being a WHM as well, I would like to be able to get my automation to cast Regen more instead of Cures, but I only get Regen when I've lost less then 100 HP...And it over cures when I loose more HP. With the Sormwalker and Harlequin, again I would like more control over what it casts. The Melee frames and heads seem to be just fine....I get what I want from the maneuvers. Just the mage ones I would like more control over.

As for gear....Meh....As someone that has 3 pet jobs, most gear is made to enhance the pet more then the master. I would like to point out to FF, if the master dies, there is no pet to enhance. Mage gear STINKS! No to very little defense what so ever. No enhancements in the gear to allow the pet job to be on the front line and do decent damage. Pet jobs are forced to be back line jobs in most cases, and when they can get in the middle of the fight, their stats are to low to do any damage let alone get TP. Granted it's the pets that are suppose to shine, but how about some decent gear to allow the masters to do something other then stand around and baby sit their pets. My PUP is loaded in ACC gear, I use Sushi, and all that, and I still cant hit anything, and when I do it's like hitting with a feather pillow.

Thats my 2 cents on pet jobs. LOL Being quiet now.

[vyhakeyo]

I mean, I understand why they made PUP use mage gear.....We mainly use the mage automations and our stats conenside with overload, but why do we have to pick our automations over melee?

The general feel I've read is gear based for most jobs and timers...Especially with the melee type jobs like PUP. I've been trying to get Verethragna for my pup, but my automation dies in a few minutes, and now I got 15+ minutes kitting that stupid Heceyes until I can call out again that will not cast only Drain and Aspar if I use the Deus Ex Automata and dies with in seconds when I do. I can solo Shoggoth on RDM and BLM, but the limitations of timers, range of Deploy (You gotta get really super close to use it, and can hardly run out of rage of the spells to save the automation let alone yourself), and the stopping in mid stride to put a maneuver up for the nuke (Though in my macros I put gear changes so I would blink to keep my stride going instead of stopping for the animation of putting up a maneuver), causes me nothing but problems. Even with Atmas, I go into Abyssea to solo, using White head to keep me alive, and take 10+ minutes per mob even though I have great Atmas on (Atma of the Razed Ruins, Atma of the Voracious Violetm and Atma of Cloak and Dagger) I'm still hitting under 100 per swing, if I even manage to make contact...And I'm using Sole Sushi on top of it. I use Enkidu's Harness, Usukane Hizayoroi, Cirque Necklace, Pantin Taj +1, and so on, and I still cant do much damage when I'm trying to melee...Yet I've seen more damage come from my WHM using a club then I can from the Afflictors. Though H2H caps only 20 skill levels below MNK, our Acc, Attack, and defence stinks, and have no choice but to be dependent on enhancements from gear and foods to solve this problem....Yet we are stuck in Mage gear that does not provide enough to off set what we lack...And the AF3 is an improvement, but my WHM can still out damage my PUP. You give WHM Reverend Mail, but PUP does not get anything really decent to even melee in. So yes, I think gear really needs to be looked at. I think Timers should be adjusted for these higher levels we are now at as well. Though we can merit down Activate down to 16 minutes 40 seconds, that is still forever for a pup to stand around swinging at air and cussing up a storm because they cant do anything or damage. Then we use Deus Ex Automata, and if it's Black head, all it does is Aspair and Drain, White head, no MP to even cure it self, and melee frames so close to dead that 1 AOE and it's gone again. If you even pop an Oil +2 you end up with no choice but to sit out and wait for your automation to heal up because the first maneuver you put up after using Deus Ex Automata overloads it. Plus most PUPs want the spells from the Black head that there is no merits left to bring down Activation time to the 16 minutes and 40 seconds, and in my opinion 3 minutes 20 seconds is not worth the 15 merits it takes to even get it there. So yes, I have to agree with everyone that timers and gear, especially with PUP needs to be reworked.

Ok, now really shutting up....I hope.

[Alderin]

Oh yeah... SMN needs Bahamut.

That is all.

[Alderin]

For DRG, I have no comment, mine is only 24...But from what I have done on it, I would like a little more control over what the wyvren does and does not do...Maybe it gets better the higher the player gets, but doing all the back line jobs I have done, it seems there is little control over the wyvren.


It is a little difficult at your level to really control your Wyvern to the extent that I believe you want. An Attack/Retreat command would be handy, however at lvl 90 you sorrrrt of have that with Smiting breath. The Wyvern won't continually attack unless you engage, hit it once then stay engaged, however to control your Wyvern you use some form of enhancing/healing spell on yourself and that will trigger the breath.

In a sense you can't control your Wyvern like the other jobs can - without the Attack/Retreat function, however you control it via the ways I mentioned above.

This has already been said on here, but you will learn how to act on certain situations that gives you enough control of your pet without making it the same as any other pet job.

In the end, DRG is pretty much the only major DD pet job (Correct me if I am wrong here, I mean I know BST can do some decent damage with pets like Sashra, however by major DD - I am talking essentially a zerging role similar to a SAM / WAR / DRK). So I believe the way they did it is sufficient, in my opinion. Otherwise if we could control our pet like the other jobs could - We would essentially be a heavy-hitting version of the others.

Anyways, if you decide to level it - you will learn how to control it. It just isn't as simple as a macro.

[Zyeriis]

Are you just making stuff up while you post?

When they made 2 separate blood pacts, there was no gear combinations to get past -15, so you have no idea to know this unless a developer told you. It wasn't until augments came around that you could get enough -BP timer to notice the cap.

And if SE cared about smn burns to set a 45 sec cap, they would have set a haste cap when melee began to haste up and zerg NMs. (Unless you want to claim SE developers hate Summoners and favor melee, which I could easily accept)

No 25% haste cap, what? When did they remove that? (Quit the game 8 months ago)

[Alderin]

No 25% haste cap, what? When did they remove that? (Quit the game 8 months ago)

Haste cap is still in effect. 25.6% Always has been and always will be.

*edit* That is of course gear cap. Atmas / Magic etc have their own cap.

[Legomike]

SMN-
Change carbuncle mitts to effect all pets including spirits. or mitts for each avatar but staves already take up alot of room
Add dual element avatars
Make Odin and Alexander actual avatars
All blood pacts have seperate timers. and add more of them
All avatars gain an en-element and armor that starts at 5min duration including hastega(all that mp for 1min is too weak)

[Malamasala]

Haste cap is still in effect. 25.6% Always has been and always will be.

*edit* That is of course gear cap. Atmas / Magic etc have their own cap.

Yea that is the problem. Could be solved by giving -10 BP timer while under avatars favor. That way melee have dual wield or hasso to attack faster, and Summoners have avatar's favor. (Since favor lowers damage it isn't even near unbalanced either)

[KorPoni]

I made a post in the PUP page about a new automaton, I was thinking of making one detailing a few avatars I'd like to see in the SMN section. I need to study BST more by playing it before I can give my 2 cents on that job, and, as far as DRG, we all know what we want for our pets: Color change!

Some new frame ideas for automatons (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/2836-Some-new-frame-ideas-for-automatons): This is the thread where I introduced frame ideas for automatons.