NEW ENIMITY WEAPON: ARM CANNON(Low Ranged Acc needed + Decent AOE Damage= FUN)

[kingfury]

It's bugged me for some time now on WAR (when SE gave WAR Aggressive Aim), but I figured this type of weapon would be coming down the pipeline at some point. Well I've been patient, but to no avail, so I suppose since we're getting an expansion next year I figure it couldn't hurt to ask for such a weapon for all jobs that could benefit from it.

Simple concept: The Arm Cannon
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/ArmCannon-WEB.jpg

- A ranged weapon that doesn't require tons of Ranged Accuracy to wield and be effective
- All jobs that have Marksmanship skill can use it
- An AOE damage effect (including elemental ammo. Fire, Ice, Wind, Lightning, etc.)
- Deals moderate-high damage
- Generates moderate-high Enimity
- High delay
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/ArmCannon-2-WEB1.jpg

I would love to take such a weapon to a fight of any kind personally, and I can't see something like this being terribly hard to develop along with the new weapons and content coming our way soon. Just thought I'd ask for it.

(From post 21 in this thread) How Troll Cannons could be the answer> (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/25819-NEW-ENIMITY-WEAPON-ARM-CANNON%28Low-Ranged-Acc-needed-Decent-AOE-Damage-FUN%29?p=342927&viewfull=1#post342927)
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/TrollCannon-UpClose-2-WEB.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/ArmCannon-3-WEB1.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/ArmCannons-PlayerTurret-WEB.jpg

[Mooshywooshy]

Awesome artwork! I can tell you before anyone else chimes in that from the graphical side of things it would be very possible as all ranged weapons have multiple bones to use for animation (although this would just use one). Missile and explosions could easily be made as well.

I think the main thing that would hold this back from becoming reality (aside from them possibly not wanting to put the work into making 7 new animations/sets of weapon skills) is getting them to accept something of this.. I guess mentality? I dunno the word im looking for.

Like the area with the monorail, it was deemed not fitting due to its advanced technology. The 'cannons' we have currently look like oversized guns, and I think they more or less try to stick to the more olde timey sword and shield, leather and iron vs dragon and orcs mentality (despite having complete departures from this theme via things like Armageddon).

I for one would love to see something like this in the game though. At one point I had made a gatling gun for my Galka so I can vouch for this being possible to make. The general idea of the need of a AoE weapon with high delay, essentially a form of magic for melee users, I think is a great idea and would be great to see!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/Elfkin/gkenginsmpsdzz.jpg

Still waitin for dat Engineer class! ;;

-Edit-

Oh I found a picture of the gatling gun back when I was working on it!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/Elfkin/glkchnz.jpg

I miss big bertha :\

[Kristal]

It's bugged me for some time now on WAR (when SE gave WAR Aggressive Aim), but I figured this type of weapon would be coming down the pipeline at some point. Well I've been patient, but to no avail, so I suppose since we're getting an expansion next year I figure it couldn't hurt to ask for such a weapon for all jobs that could benefit from it.

Simple concept: The Arm Cannon
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/ArmCannon-WEB.jpg

- A ranged weapon that doesn't require tons of Ranged Accuracy to wield and be effective
- All jobs that have Marksmanship skill can use it
- An AOE damage effect (including elemental ammo. Fire, Ice, Wind, Lightning, etc.)
- Deals moderate-high damage
- Generates moderate-high Enimity
- High delay
I would love to take such a weapon to a fight of any kind personally, and I can't see something like this being terribly hard to develop along with the new weapons and content coming our way soon. Just thought I'd ask for it.

I don't see WAR ever getting something like this, they only got a D skill after all.
It would be nice to get a lvl 99 version of the Culverin though, it's the closest thing to a cannon a player can equip. Maybe with a custom weaponskill "Broadside" ;D

[Mirabelle]

Give this to WAR and make the ammo cost 150k for a stack of 12. Then when all the WAR bitch about ammo costs, maybe SE will start to listen to ranged attackers for once.

[Meyi]

Mooshy, I love all of your awesome work! I think this idea could be interesting and fun. :) Even if it was added as a Campaign OPs or something.

[kingfury]

Awesome artwork! I can tell you before anyone else chimes in that from the graphical side of things it would be very possible as all ranged weapons have multiple bones to use for animation (although this would just use one). Missile and explosions could easily be made as well.

I think the main thing that would hold this back from becoming reality (aside from them possibly not wanting to put the work into making 7 new animations/sets of weapon skills) is getting them to accept something of this.. I guess mentality? I dunno the word im looking for.

Like the area with the monorail, it was deemed not fitting due to its advanced technology. The 'cannons' we have currently look like oversized guns, and I think they more or less try to stick to the more olde timey sword and shield, leather and iron vs dragon and orcs mentality (despite having complete departures from this theme via things like Armageddon).

I for one would love to see something like this in the game though. At one point I had made a gatling gun for my Galka so I can vouch for this being possible to make. The general idea of the need of a AoE weapon with high delay, essentially a form of magic for melee users, I think is a great idea and would be great to see!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/Elfkin/gkenginsmpsdzz.jpg

Still waitin for dat Engineer class! ;;

-Edit-

Oh I found a picture of the gatling gun back when I was working on it!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/Elfkin/glkchnz.jpg

I miss big bertha :\
-------------------------
AWESOME WORK! ^.^ / Man I need to know how to do that 3D modeling stuff some day soon! ><

Yeah, I suppose I too share a deeper feeling that the idea might be slightly deviating from the current technology feel of Vana'diel, but I suppose I'm hoping there might be another Cid-like NPC in the expansion areas to come lol. If nothing else, we've seen the DEVs introduce cool new types of technology/magic with each new expansion, so It's really exciting to be able to suggest ideas to the DEVs while they're still working on the new content.

We have all kinds of wonderful advanced tech in FFXI (tele pads, animated Golems, flying ships, bio-technical monsters, etc.) so I would hope to only inspire the brilliant artist working on the expansion to construct a design that fits the FFXI tech feel without deviating too far from the current art direction :)

Great insight though, thanks for your post /

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Wife let you off the leash KF? lol
I thought she banned you.

[kingfury]

Wife let you off the leash KF? lol
I thought she banned you.
-------------------
lol ^.^' Well I've been a single Galka for a while now, but yeah, I've missed FFXI deeply! Life banned me for a bit though with stupid bills and crap. >.>

[Tsukino_Kaji]

-------------------
lol ^.^' Well I've been a single Galka for a while now, but yeah, I've missed FFXI deeply! Life banned me for a bit though with stupid bills and crap. >.>Well, welcome back. Go get your shiney new Chatoyant Staff so you can bitch about it doing less dmg on on ice spells not relaizing it's missing the elemental bonus. lol

[BurnNotice]

This is badass! lol. Good Job!

In any case, if we can have weapons such as this for WAR, SE would need to raise Marks Skill cap from D to at least B+.

[BurnNotice]

It's bugged me for some time now on WAR (when SE gave WAR Aggressive Aim), but I figured this type of weapon would be coming down the pipeline at some point. Well I've been patient, but to no avail, so I suppose since we're getting an expansion next year I figure it couldn't hurt to ask for such a weapon for all jobs that could benefit from it.

Simple concept: The Arm Cannon
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/ArmCannon-WEB.jpg

- A ranged weapon that doesn't require tons of Ranged Accuracy to wield and be effective
- All jobs that have Marksmanship skill can use it
- An AOE damage effect (including elemental ammo. Fire, Ice, Wind, Lightning, etc.)
- Deals moderate-high damage
- Generates moderate-high Enimity
- High delay
I would love to take such a weapon to a fight of any kind personally, and I can't see something like this being terribly hard to develop along with the new weapons and content coming our way soon. Just thought I'd ask for it.


Great work bro. :)

[Kristal]

Maybe Sharpshot Mk.II could get an arm cannon ;D It already has an armcrossbow after all.

[kingfury]

I don't see WAR ever getting something like this, they only got a D skill after all.
It would be nice to get a lvl 99 version of the Culverin though, it's the closest thing to a cannon a player can equip. Maybe with a custom weaponskill "Broadside" ;D
----------------------
Nothing a good bit of ranged Food + ranged accuracy gear can't fix ^^ I'll need to do a screen shot of my own WAR ranged accuracy set but trust me, it can be done ^^

And before you ask why would a WAR do such a thing, I should say that I like to push the limits of what WARs can do outside of simply swinging an Axe or Great axe so this was an experiment that I embarked on years ago to prove that a WAR could excel at Ranged Attack. Though I wasn't a gillionaire back when I attempted this experiment, I gathered enough decent gear to prove that it's very possible.
*-----EDIT---------*
Here's that image of my ranged set with the ffxiah.com link. *Note* This is only the Ranged Accuracy Set. I have an alternate set for Ranged Attack, and for Ranged Weapon skills.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/IMG200.jpg
* FFXIAH.com gear listing> (http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/267231)
At the end of it all, it's fun in my opinion to do things that aren't expected in games like this on versatile jobs like WAR. It's rewarding to actually hit a Notorious Monster repeatedly with arrows on WAR when everyone says it can't be done :)

New and more powerful arrows, weapons and gear came to the market since then but I think arrows and bullets should be used by RNGs and CORs while my wish that grenades and more AOE ammo would become available for other jobs.

[Helel]

Awesome artwork. I love the taru pics. They look super serious.

One of the main problems with any job using ranged attacks (other than cor or rng or sam with yoichi) is that you need /rng or /cor to have access to any of the weapon skills. I could see ranged attacks on war being useful in some fights that require multiple sources of damage; I could see it being useful while weakened since weakness doesn't affect ranged attack delay. I think the ranged weapon skills need to be accessible to more jobs though; that's the biggest hurdle that needs to be overcome. We're at the point now with weapon skills like Last Stand and Wildfire that ranger's native weapon skills don't even matter anymore. Might as well give them (aka slug shot) to other jobs.

[kingfury]

Awesome artwork. I love the taru pics. They look super serious.

One of the main problems with any job using ranged attacks (other than cor or rng or sam with yoichi) is that you need /rng or /cor to have access to any of the weapon skills. I could see ranged attacks on war being useful in some fights that require multiple sources of damage; I could see it being useful while weakened since weakness doesn't affect ranged attack delay. I think the ranged weapon skills need to be accessible to more jobs though; that's the biggest hurdle that needs to be overcome. We're at the point now with weapon skills like Last Stand and Wildfire that ranger's native weapon skills don't even matter anymore. Might as well give them (aka slug shot) to other jobs.
----------------------
Thanks in regards to the art ^^ /

Completely understood, and I for one agrees 100% that any combat skill that has reached the 350+ mark should have access to some of the standard weapon skills native to that weapon. Furthermore, I also agree that all the job specific weapon skills should stay native to those respective jobs only.

Aside from that, the point of this ranged concept would be to have a weapon that can be implemented without any weapon skills attached to it and it still be valuable due to it's ability to cause Moderate-High damage along with the possible elemental based ammo. Something you wouldn't have to swap in /RNG for and still get valid AOE damage that could possibly give the user the option to cause a Magic Burst. That way they wouldn't have to change the laws of the game... not right away at least ;)

[Mayoyama]

I could see it being useful while weakened since weakness doesn't affect ranged attack delay.

Keeping in mind double weak = your arrows missing 100%. Really wish SE would remove that penalty... at least melee jobs are able to still do some form of damage while double weak, albeit slowly

Edit: Above that, love the artwork KF! Always love seeing the cool ideas you come up with

[Ophannus]

It's possible. They just need to modify and reskin these guns and animations for player races. http://zam.zamimg.com/ffxi/i/images/mobs/AU/Troll-Smelter.jpg

[kingfury]

Edit: Above that, love the artwork KF! Always love seeing the cool ideas you come up with
---------------
Thanks Mayoyama ^^/


It's possible. They just need to modify and reskin these guns and animations for player races. http://zam.zamimg.com/ffxi/i/images/mobs/AU/Troll-Smelter.jpg
---------------
Brilliant! Totally forgot about the Troll's hand held cannons! Didn't we get scaled down version of their shields too? I know we got the cool looking clubs.

Now I'm wondering how those things actually work lol. They spit out big flame explosions right? Better pull up Altana Viewer to investigate ^.^

[Kristal]

----------------------
Thanks in regards to the art ^^ /

Your art is top notch, no mistake there :cool: Was going to post a sig request ages ago, but the list was so long already... ( also deciding on what to request had me tied in knots.. I can picture it in my mind, words are a different matter...)



Completely understood, and I for one agrees 100% that any combat skill that has reached the 350+ mark should have access to some of the standard weapon skills native to that weapon. Furthermore, I also agree that all the job specific weapon skills should stay native to those respective jobs only.

Aside from that, the point of this ranged concept would be to have a weapon that can be implemented without any weapon skills attached to it and it still be valuable due to it's ability to cause Moderate-High damage along with the possible elemental based ammo. Something you wouldn't have to swap in /RNG for and still get valid AOE damage that could possibly give the user the option to cause a Magic Burst. That way they wouldn't have to change the laws of the game... not right away at least ;)

Tanaka's Law of Balance demands that such an item would be available to all jobs (except RDM obviously.)
So it's basically an almost-all-job 1/1-enchanted soultrapper with a unique emote that consumes elemental ammo? One that allows any job to nuke on par with a RDM without magic agro and while silenced? (While laughing at said sad RDM for not having such a cool item!)

[Modoru]

Your art style's improved quite a bit over the year. Nice concept art, haha.

[kingfury]

Brilliant! Totally forgot about the Troll's hand held cannons! Didn't we get scaled down version of their shields too? I know we got the cool looking clubs.

Now I'm wondering how those things actually work lol. They spit out big flame explosions right? Better pull up Altana Viewer to investigate ^.^
----------------------
Can they put Troll Cannons in our hands?:
Yep, scaled down version of Troll weapons for us to use work already :)

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/TrollClub-Shield-WEB.jpg
Troll Club and Troll Shield
------------------------
How They Work:
Didn't find any exacting information on how the cannons work other than Moblins made the Troll technology which includes their cannons and this exert from the ffxi wiki (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Trolls):
"--the Troll mercenaries now possess equipment superior to that of the other Near Eastern beastmen, including naphtha-powered incendiary weapons"

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/TrollCannon-UpClose-1-WEB.jpg
Close up of Troll cannon
Quick search on what Naphta is for those that don't know(cause I didn't lol)
"Naphtha is a colorless to reddish-brown volatile aromatic liquid, very similar to gasoline. Naphta normally refers to a number of flammable liquid mixtures of hydrocarbons, i.e., a component of natural gas condensate or a distillation product from petroleum, coal tar or peat boiling in a certain range and containing certain hydrocarbons."

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/TrollCannon-UpClose-2-WEB.jpg
Using different elemental cores to produce desired burst

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/ArmCannon-3-WEB1.jpg
-----------------------

[Ophannus]

The shoulder mounted rocket launcher was such a cooler idea, especially with the badass shirtless galka. XD

[Ophannus]

Also a bit of random knowledge for ya. Naptha is short for napthenic acid and "Napalm" is a portmanteau for "naphthenic acid and palmitic acid"

[kingfury]

The shoulder mounted rocket launcher was such a cooler idea, especially with the badass shirtless galka. XD
----------------------
Well, that could still be the case with the Troll versions :)
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/ArmCannon-4-WEB.jpg
Flan with pwnage all over it

[kingfury]

Your art is top notch, no mistake there :cool: Was going to post a sig request ages ago, but the list was so long already... ( also deciding on what to request had me tied in knots.. I can picture it in my mind, words are a different matter...)
--------------------------
/bow Many Thanks ^^ / I'll be jumping back onto those bad boys soon enough(the sig requests) so couldn't hurt to at least put your name in the cavernous maw that is the "To be served list" lol.



Tanaka's Law of Balance demands that such an item would be available to all jobs (except RDM obviously.)
So it's basically an almost-all-job 1/1-enchanted soultrapper with a unique emote that consumes elemental ammo? One that allows any job to nuke on par with a RDM without magic agro and while silenced? (While laughing at said sad RDM for not having such a cool item!)
--------------------------
Well, at least everyone that has Marksmanship skill:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/Marksmanship-SkillRatings-WEB.jpg
Marksmanship skill ratings
That said, I honestly don't believe that simply plugging in new and more powerful spells for RDM would push them back into the endgame party set up. Though it would be logical for sure, seeing as they have -Mage attached to their names, I think the RDM job itself needs a new play style created all together that combines all the things that make them unique and then creatively push how they use those traits to distinguish themselves from every other job in the game.

There's a number of ways this could be achieved, but one thing would remain constant; RDMs should be Kings of "enfeebling", not just "enfeeble magic". As soon as you lift that Boxed thinking from over the play style of RDM, the game could open up 10 fold for the job.

[kingfury]

I for one would love to see something like this in the game though. At one point I had made a gatling gun for my Galka so I can vouch for this being possible to make. The general idea of the need of a AoE weapon with high delay, essentially a form of magic for melee users, I think is a great idea and would be great to see!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/Elfkin/gkenginsmpsdzz.jpg

Still waitin for dat Engineer class! ;;

-Edit-

Oh I found a picture of the gatling gun back when I was working on it!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/Elfkin/glkchnz.jpg

I miss big bertha :\
-----------------------------------
Hey Mooshy,

Quick question, could you shed some light on what process you used to edit the character models? 3Ds Studio Max? Something else?

I've been wanting to do a 3D ffxi art piece forever, but I've only skimmed on the information on how to best do it. I have Zbrush but I'm still not sure how I would pop in the framework of a ffxi character into the software. Thanks /

[Economizer]

The game really could use more cannon-type weapons, but I have doubts about us ever seeing "moderate to high" AoE damage for ALL jobs with Marksmanship.

Currently cannons are limited to the Culverin/+1, and the ammunition is limited to the Cannon Shell and the Heavy Shell. I'd like to see the cannon-class weapon expanded upon, even if not exactly in the manner Kingfury describes. The artwork for the weapons should also be expanded upon, giant high-delay cannons should be giant.

[kingfury]

The game really could use more cannon-type weapons, but I have doubts about us ever seeing "moderate to high" AoE damage for ALL jobs with Marksmanship.

Currently cannons are limited to the Culverin/+1, and the ammunition is limited to the Cannon Shell and the Heavy Shell. I'd like to see the cannon-class weapon expanded upon, even if not exactly in the manner Kingfury describes. The artwork for the weapons should also be expanded upon, giant high-delay cannons should be giant.
---------------------------
That's a great idea, I can totally see that concept :) After all, Wings of the Goddess introduced enemy turrets so we would simply need scaled down versions that we could pop out and aim at enemies like those campaign turrets would do to fortifications while we whoop up on those same targets. Great feedback /salute
Check it out:


Player Turrets/Cannons

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/ArmCannons-PlayerTurret-WEB.jpg

[Economizer]

Player Turrets/Cannons

I was actually talking about the arm mounted weapons in respect to future ones (actually I can't remember how big the Culverin is right now, anyone care to make/find a screenshot of one in action?), but having an item based variant that is expendable, particularly for Campaign Battle makes sense too.

I know that guns can look quite big, at least compared to a Tarutaru (I remember hunting Rarabs in Sarutabaruta in a tux as a Tarutaru leveling Corsair to level 10 a long time ago and it looking amazing), but if we're going to be shooting things that shouldn't reasonably be used by a person, they should be big on the scale of some of the humorously oversized Great Swords we can use.

[kingfury]

I was actually talking about the arm mounted weapons in respect to future ones (actually I can't remember how big the Culverin is right now, anyone care to make/find a screenshot of one in action?), but having an item based variant that is expendable, particularly for Campaign Battle makes sense too.

I know that guns can look quite big, at least compared to a Tarutaru (I remember hunting Rarabs in Sarutabaruta in a tux as a Tarutaru leveling Corsair to level 10 a long time ago and it looking amazing), but if we're going to be shooting things that shouldn't reasonably be used by a person, they should be big on the scale of some of the humorously oversized Great Swords we can use.
------------------------
Ahh, okay lol I agree that we need bigger guns, but I just wish that other jobs other than RNG can take advantage of some that would function similar to a cannon.

here's a screen of that Culverin. Looks like a nice shot gun.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/Culverin-pic.png

[Ophannus]

Screw Geomancer, needs more Cannoneer.
http://images-mediawiki-sites.thefullwiki.org/07/1/0/2/24163632641178545.png

Cannoneer FFV

[SpankWustler]

Usually, when I see this kind of thread, I think something like "If this idea were any more banal, I'd climb into my own deep-frier to die horribly and be away from it. I'd consider that a net gain, if I could still consider anything."

This time, I'm thinking, "I really want to shoot one of those at something." I just can't help it. Somehow, this concept is irresistible. Like nachos. Damn. I want a giant cannon.

[kingfury]

Screw Geomancer, needs more Cannoneer.
http://images-mediawiki-sites.thefullwiki.org/07/1/0/2/24163632641178545.png

Cannoneer FFV
--------------------
Really?! o.0 friggin awesome! /googlesearchesCannoneerFFV :)

[kingfury]

Usually, when I see this kind of thread, I think something like "If this idea were any more banal, I'd climb into my own deep-frier to die horribly and be away from it. I'd consider that a net gain, if I could still consider anything."

This time, I'm thinking, "I really want to shoot one of those at something." I just can't help it. Somehow, this concept is irresistible. Like nachos. Damn. I want a giant cannon.
-------------------
/laugh :D

[Mooshywooshy]

-----------------------------------
Hey Mooshy,

Quick question, could you shed some light on what process you used to edit the character models? 3Ds Studio Max? Something else?

I've been wanting to do a 3D ffxi art piece forever, but I've only skimmed on the information on how to best do it. I have Zbrush but I'm still not sure how I would pop in the framework of a ffxi character into the software. Thanks /

I just do the basic DAT-MQO in Model Viewer, then edit in Metasequoia. It has a basic rendering option for pretty pictures (although lighting is a bit odd sometimes). If you plan on putting them back into the game you cant delete or add any vertexes in Meta. That has to be done in VRS which is a whole other thing to tackle! And im sure the mods would go cray cray lol

[kingfury]

I just do the basic DAT-MQO in Model Viewer, then edit in Metasequoia. It has a basic rendering option for pretty pictures (although lighting is a bit odd sometimes). If you plan on putting them back into the game you cant delete or add any vertexes in Meta. That has to be done in VRS which is a whole other thing to tackle! And im sure the mods would go cray cray lol
---------------------
Wow, so it hasn't changed from way back when I read about the process eh? Gotta look up that Metasequoia software then. Thanks a ton Mooshy /

[Vandheer]

King I have to say that I always enjoy a post from you like this. They are well thought out and explained in depth, then to top it all off you add art to making your posts all the more badass.

Thats all I have on this and all your past topic so far but I'll keep my eye out for more of your posts like this.

[Scuro]

This is down right awesome, usually I'm used to shooting stuff like this down on the basis of it being too over the top, but for some reason I can see this being manipulated into our current era and actually being awesome. I mean for the longest time I wished that RNGs and other gun wielding classes could use a giant gun, I mean hell when I heard the Armageddon, I was like OMG! This gun is going to be the damn size of a old Style Musket rifle!.... yet it never happened and I still feel a bit of it is diminished due to size. I would kill for a giant boom stick to blow things way with.

[airsparrowhawk]

Just a Cannoneer class would be cool to see, it could be a class that takes time to set up and reload it's weapon (so increased delay for sure) but deals large damage to compensate, possibly the special ability could be to 'Build' (somewhat similar to summon) a Cannon, complete with full customization of the Cannon (taking a page out of the Puppetmaster's book there) but instead of attacking autonomously, have it behave like a regular weapon would.