Windurst region fix.

[Rosina]

Hello everyone (again)
I'm rewiting my OP to fix errors places and to better type out what I'm asking. Thanks to raist I got more info then I knew my level, ranges were guesses. So my appologies on that.

What I would like, if it's possible. For SE to change the towers and underbelly baxk to their original level ranges. I was happy, (and suggested)GoV to be placed as I like having a "reason" to kill mobs. To me mindlessly killing animals doesn't seem heroic. I'm not actually new to this change. I was playing when it was added. The reason I'm dislike this change now, is I never felt effected by it and I tried to give it a chance. I tried the book burn/abby burn thing and personally dislike it. So i'm asking for THIS level change, to give me and playes like me more options at low level to level up at. I'm only asking for the windurst towers to be changed back.

Leveling out in west and east sarutabaruta can be boring a tedious as most of the low level field zones have mobs to few and far apart.

[Slaxx]

I'm... I'm impressed. This is actually a pretty literate post with a fairly valid point to be made. No random asides, no insults to other people.

/slowclap

As an actual response the high level mobs appeared long after GoV. Pages for these mobs were added to GoV but the system itself predates them by quite a bit.

Also to my knowledge there are ways around those high level mobs, whether it be sneak/invisible or a less direct path. You may want to check the evil, evil wiki for that most horrible of things - pooled knowledge from the player base.

Edit - After further research I was incorrect. GoV was added in May of 2011 which would put it after the initial round of level cap raises (to 90). As to when the monsters in this specific area were adjusted that I am not sure of and it isn't particularly relevant to this discussion.

(See what I did there Rosina? I realized I was making a claim without knowing the facts and proceeded to get the facts. When those facts contradicted my earlier claim I corrected myself. If someone else had done so I would have acknowledged my error and moved on with the discussion.

That is how an adult handles things.)

[RagingAvatar]

The high level mobs appeared long after GoV. Pages for these mobs were added to GoV but the system itself predates them by quite a bit.

Also to my knowledge there are ways around those high level mobs, whether it be sneak/invisible or a less direct path. You may want to check the evil, evil wiki for that most horrible of things - pooled knowledge from the player base.

Edit - After further research I was incorrect. GoV was added in May of 2011 which would put it after the initial round of level cap raises (to 90). As to when the monsters in this specific area were adjusted that I am not sure of and it isn't particularly relevant to this discussion.



Quoted without the parts where you're just being rude to Rosina, a fellow player of the game and user of this forum.
Please don't be rude, it's unnecessary.

[Rosina]

@ stax

Thanks for most of that post. But I know my Info :) As for the rest of your post. Making a what looks like a snide/snarky remark isn't what i find adult like. But I'll leave it at that.

Anyway, I just do not want returning players/newbies to feel at a loss on where to level if they happen to pick windurst. As for the door where nanaa mhigo cache/hide out is. Those mobs really are close to the door. And require a need to open the crack door. Which mobs are very close to it. So if you gotta solo this quest, you gotta wait till your 99 which seems redundent.

I have no idea why they changed these areas for gov. I find it a pointless change as there was alot of high level locations. Abyssea being one of them. I find it an unfair change and simple want it to back to how it used to be. So players have places to level up near windurst. Ans the ability to get these mission and quests done that require to go through the mage door.

[cidbahamut]

if it is possible, if no high level is actually using these locations. Just please revert these back to how they was befor gov was launched.

I actually support this.

Putting high level mobs in low level zones was always a terrible decision.

[Continuity]

Agreed. The level 80+ mobs in the low level questing areas of the Horototo Ruins seem really out of place. Sure, you can sneak/invis to get past them, but then once you interact with the Mahogany Door for a quest (for example) they will kill you afterwards. To me, it seems like a poor redesign decision.

[Komori]

Or SE could have done like they did Zeruhn Mines; I don't think any of the high levels there are aggressive. Just make them non-aggressive in other low level zones so they can still be farmed but people can still do whatever?

[Sarick]

Simple, remove the goblins and undead then replace them with high level passive bats and beetles.

[Demon6324236]

Just to say rq, this is not only Windurst that has this problem, it exists in basically all regions for the starter cities and their equivalent areas.


Or SE could have done like they did Zeruhn Mines; I don't think any of the high levels there are aggressive. Just make them non-aggressive in other low level zones so they can still be farmed but people can still do whatever?

This is really what they should have done when they tried to fix this problem originally. I remember when this was added alot of complaints were made about the high level mobs in the way for quests and such so they moved them around a little or something. All the high level mobs in non-high level areas need to become passive mobs that do not aggro, only link at most.

[Rosina]

Its not only that they are in the way, this limits where a lower level can level up. Now you need to stay in the main fields of west and east sarutabaruta then go to the canyon which at low level subless can be tricky. There are a ton of high level locations, near a starter city shouldn't be one of them. Anypone at any level should walk/run on foot for 15-30 min just to find a "safe" spot to level. More so at the "newbie" levels. Not everyone enjoys book burning.

[Demon6324236]

Its not only that they are in the way, this limits where a lower level can level up. Now you need to stay in the main fields of west and east sarutabaruta then go to the canyon which at low level subless can be tricky. There are a ton of high level locations, near a starter city shouldn't be one of them. Anypone at any level should walk/run on foot for 15-30 min just to find a "safe" spot to level. More so at the "newbie" levels. Not everyone enjoys book burning.

This leveling guide is brought to you by a very bored person watching shouts in Jeuno...

East Sarutabaruta to lv7-8, enter Inner Horutoto Ruins at the H-3 entrance. Level there until lv12-13, move to Tahrongi Canyon and level to lv16-20. Move to Buburimu Peninsula and use the boat in Mhaura and go to Valkrum, level to about lv24-26 then move to either Jugner or Pashhow Marshlands(I prefer PM myself) and fight near the OP doing pages. Upon reaching lv30 or so, you can move to the area next to Jeuno, and around level 35~40 you can move to other areas like Yhoator, or The Eldieme Necropolis(doing pages here solo should be fast xp while its still the solo experience you seem to wish) this is how I would say to go about things. At lv50ish you move to Altepa, which provided you fight the right mobs will take you up to lv70ish when you can use Kuftal to hit 75, at that point, goto abyssea, you have no reason not to.

[Trisscar]

This leveling guide is brought to you by a very bored person watching shouts in Jeuno...

East Sarutabaruta to lv7-8, enter Inner Horutoto Ruins at the H-3 entrance. Level there until lv12-13, move to Tahrongi Canyon and level to lv16-20. Move to Buburimu Peninsula and use the boat in Mhaura and go to Valkrum, level to about lv24-26 then move to either Jugner or Pashhow Marshlands(I prefer PM myself) and fight near the OP doing pages. Upon reaching lv30 or so, you can move to the area next to Jeuno, and around level 35~40 you can move to other areas like Yhoator, or The Eldieme Necropolis(doing pages here solo should be fast xp while its still the solo experience you seem to wish) this is how I would say to go about things. At lv50ish you move to Altepa, which provided you fight the right mobs will take you up to lv70ish when you can use Kuftal to hit 75, at that point, goto abyssea, you have no reason not to.

Thanks for that, Demon, it's very useful. And here I been on a Windurst tour the entire time going from Sarutab, to Tahrongi, to Bubu, to Meripo, to Sauromonge.

Just one little niggle... Rosina doesn't like quick, efficient experience and prefers slow, tedious levels.

[Rosina]

Thanks for that, Demon, it's very useful. And here I been on a Windurst tour the entire time going from Sarutab, to Tahrongi, to Bubu, to Meripo, to Sauromonge.

Just one little niggle... Rosina doesn't like quick, efficient experience and prefers slow, tedious levels.

hardy har har... I like quick efficient exp... not fast tedious exp where i'm doing the work for 5+ ppl.... big difference. :P

@ demon thanks for the tips. :) I don't typically solo so ya not used to it.

but anyway try to keep on topic, not make snarky comments about me please ^^;;

[Continuity]

This leveling guide is brought to you by a very bored person watching shouts in Jeuno...

East Sarutabaruta to lv7-8, enter Inner Horutoto Ruins at the H-3 entrance. Level there until lv12-13, move to Tahrongi Canyon and level to lv16-20. Move to Buburimu Peninsula and use the boat in Mhaura and go to Valkrum, level to about lv24-26 then move to either Jugner or Pashhow Marshlands(I prefer PM myself) and fight near the OP doing pages. Upon reaching lv30 or so, you can move to the area next to Jeuno, and around level 35~40 you can move to other areas like Yhoator, or The Eldieme Necropolis(doing pages here solo should be fast xp while its still the solo experience you seem to wish) this is how I would say to go about things. At lv50ish you move to Altepa, which provided you fight the right mobs will take you up to lv70ish when you can use Kuftal to hit 75, at that point, goto abyssea, you have no reason not to.

Thanks, looks good!

[Spiritreaver]

I have no issue with the OP as laid out and actually support a change of that type. I even 'liked' it.

However, i'm a bit confused.

Just want to make sure i'm getting this right; having high lvl mobs, that can utterly destroy a newbie or returning player, in some of the earlier areas of the game, is now an unfair change and is disruptive to low lvl play? Having the looming threat of instant, one-shot death ever-present as a low lvl character trying to do a quest or even just exp doesn't bestow a drive or urge to lvl up and come back and kill said high lvl menaces?

So initial request aside, am i correct in the train of the thought behind that request Rosina?

[Modoru]

Well, the mobs were assigned everywhere [as in, all three nations have these level 80 variants], but as everyone else, you get used to them. I feel this is silly.

Making them passive seems sound. On another note, I ran through Tahrongi Canyon and Buburimu peninsula as a level 10 warrior without a sub when I was a new, and made it to Selbina safe and sound so I could XP in Valkurm Dunes. Why can't you do the same?

[Trisscar]

I'm actually grateful of the high level mobs, made learning Bloodrake a breeze.

[Anapingofness]

I agree with the OP.

I think it's far too easy for a low level player to stumble across these mobs. In my opinion it's always been bad design on my end.

I'd have preferred it if they did something like they did with Dangruf Wadi where it's harder to just walk into a level 80 mob. That ways both low levels and high levels can play in the same zone.

Granted, SE isn't actually trying to recruit new players so I don't think that they'll change anything. ^^;

[Demon6324236]

I agree with the OP.

I think it's far too easy for a low level player to stumble across these mobs. In my opinion it's always been bad design on my end.

I'd have preferred it if they did something like they did with Dangruf Wadi where it's harder to just walk into a level 80 mob. That ways both low levels and high levels can play in the same zone.

Granted, SE isn't actually trying to recruit new players so I don't think that they'll change anything. ^^;

Well~ a new expansion could draw to attention to the game.

[Trisscar]

Well~ a new expansion could draw to attention to the game.

After WotG, I'm cautiously optimistic at current.

[Dreamin]

This leveling guide is brought to you by a very bored person watching shouts in Jeuno...

East Sarutabaruta to lv7-8, enter Inner Horutoto Ruins at the H-3 entrance. Level there until lv12-13, move to Tahrongi Canyon and level to lv16-20. Move to Buburimu Peninsula and use the boat in Mhaura and go to Valkrum, level to about lv24-26 then move to either Jugner or Pashhow Marshlands(I prefer PM myself) and fight near the OP doing pages. Upon reaching lv30 or so, you can move to the area next to Jeuno, and around level 35~40 you can move to other areas like Yhoator, or The Eldieme Necropolis(doing pages here solo should be fast xp while its still the solo experience you seem to wish) this is how I would say to go about things. At lv50ish you move to Altepa, which provided you fight the right mobs will take you up to lv70ish when you can use Kuftal to hit 75, at that point, goto abyssea, you have no reason not to.

Or alternatively (solo camps):

1. up to 10 outside your starter nation - use FoV if you want but at least can get the regen/refresh support there.

2. 11 to 16 (or to 20 if you dont mind running around) - outside of your starter nation in [S]. At least for Bastok [S], you can level against worms/spalings/birds/crabs just outside the gate til 16 for great exp (can go higher but xp falls off and you'll get more TW mobs).

3. 16 to 20 (ish), you can do Worms in [S] - North Gustaberg [S]. I love [S] low level camps since you can get Regen/Refresh and Meal durations extension.

4. 20 to 30 (ish), more worms or other mobs in same zones - Grauberg [S]

5. 30+ - you can go key/leech in Abyssea or keep going solo'ing or using the old camprus site (http://campsitarus.blogspot.com/).

If you rather party up you can just use the campsitarus site to choose your camp. Sub in zones/mobs where you can do FoV/GoV when appropriate. The camp sites are all pretty much still there and no one hardly ever camp in there at all (other than the FoV/GoV camps). So if you want some throw-back xp style party, you'll have all your choices of camp sites without all the competitions that used to be there.

Enjoy.

[Salvation]

The horo ruins located in the SW tip of West Sarutabaruta (Cardian tower) is also a good location for solo/ low man exp from around level 15 up into the 40's.

[Demon6324236]

The horo ruins located in the SW tip of West Sarutabaruta (Cardian tower) is also a good location for solo/ low man exp from around level 15 up into the 40's.

Yep, I forgot that place but it works very nicely as well, just have to be careful of links & magic aggro, can cause problems sometimes.

[Xantavia]

I have no issue with the OP as laid out and actually support a change of that type. I even 'liked' it.

However, i'm a bit confused.

Just want to make sure i'm getting this right; having high lvl mobs, that can utterly destroy a newbie or returning player, in some of the earlier areas of the game, is now an unfair change and is disruptive to low lvl play? Having the looming threat of instant, one-shot death ever-present as a low lvl character trying to do a quest or even just exp doesn't bestow a drive or urge to lvl up and come back and kill said high lvl menaces?

So initial request aside, am i correct in the train of the thought behind that request Rosina?
I think the major problem is that with these mobs, you don't even stand a chance if you are in a party to survive. Since 2-3 used to have the capped BCNM at 25, I felt a party of players lvl25 should be able to do the missions up to this point. If you got aggro before the change, you could fight your way past. Now though you wouldn't even stand a chance.

[Rosina]

@ Spirit

If your talking about my nm/hnm comments, i never stated add to those just make them present. It is also easy to avoid them. As for this, this is normal mobs that where once low lvl... now are high lvl. And you can't avoid them easy. And unlike other "lowbie to highbie" area changes you get aggro'ed easy. It is a bit different 1-2 field bosses vs 10-20 mobs that had level increases. The bosses were always there. The mobs where not.

Plus my comments were general of making all nm/hnm on 15 min timers vs lotto pop/24hr. But thats another topic all together.

[Rosina]

I think the major problem is that with these mobs, you don't even stand a chance if you are in a party to survive. Since 2-3 used to have the capped BCNM at 25, I felt a party of players lvl25 should be able to do the missions up to this point. If you got aggro before the change, you could fight your way past. Now though you wouldn't even stand a chance.

the areas near the dragon fights didn't get changed, and they removed the lvl 25 cap.

but i just remembered a change Danguf wadi was changed also, and now made it harder to 1) get to the lower part of the waterfall for a bastok quest. And 2) made it even harder to farm gausebit greens for chocobo quest. from my run throught, just a small section is still the same level. And only about 6 horder hares are around from what I saw.

Point of mmorpg is to progress from the start city. you do stuff outside the city, then you explore dungeon around the city, then you progress outward.

[Rosina]

(text limit)

So you guys know people are joining up wuth this game and coming back. Steam had a summer sale and made ffxi $12, full game all current exp packs $12. So alot of ppl and joining up. Met a few newbies in my new LS. We actually have a WoW player who is enjoying ffxi cuz its not as easy as WoW currently is. :) Plus i'm meeting TONS of ppl returning to ffxi.

[Rosina]

@ mod. I would find that acceptable too... but I like having a productive day, not run from 1 area of the game to another. I took a lvl 1 from a home nation to jeuno. traveling itsn't hard. But it shouldn't be forced on a player, more so if they haven't the time to do it. I am enjoying being around windurst, its one of my fav regions. I miss being able to solo in location I used to solo in. I miss being able to get fame quests done. As it stands, i need to be 99 to do a good portion of quests/ rank missions just to remotely survive the trip. Not something i'm fond of.

I actually ran around and did travel to valkrum dunes to find good places to solo @. took so much time away from actually leveling.

[Zerich]

Some hot tips for you on getting around hard mobs.

A combo of
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Sneak
and
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Invisible
still work perfectly for being stealthy.
they also added the two spells to vendors.

or you could be more daring and try:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Spectral_Jig

as for fame missions, i'll reference you to the selbina millioncorn and windy cornette missions, which are explained here:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Quick_Reputation

yes, for logistic's sake, it is derp that level 80 mobs are in lowbie zones.
who /checks mobs anymore?

the bastok rank1-2 mission doesn't put you in the high level mobs.

[Zeargi]

Some hot tips for you on getting around hard mobs.

A combo of
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Sneak
and
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Invisible
still work perfectly for being stealthy.
they also added the two spells to vendors.

or you could be more daring and try:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Spectral_Jig

as for fame missions, i'll reference you to the selbina millioncorn and windy cornette missions, which are explained here:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Quick_Reputation

yes, for logistic's sake, it is derp that level 80 mobs are in lowbie zones.
who /checks mobs anymore?

the bastok rank1-2 mission doesn't put you in the high level mobs.

But the Windurst Missions do: Rather than be cynical perhaps you should be supportive. There are quests as well as missions that require these places be explored.
The Dangruf stone a lvl. 10 quest put right in the midst of level 90+ mobs. The books can offer sneak and invisible, but once your remove it, you're SoL. You'd have to level to 25 as a WHM/RDM/SCH/DNC to make sure you could by pass this (But seeing how 2 of those are Advanced Jobs... You'd have to wait longer), or wait to 50 in order to sub those jobs. If you're a new player, it's not likely you'll have the gil to afford gear, weapons, and spells. Which is why you do quests anyway to get them free or the gil to purchase them. A stack of Prism Powder is 24k and Silent Oil is 25k on Sylph on the AH. It's not an un-reasonable request, the 'newb' areas are there for the starting players to get used to game mechanics and offer a bit of danger, but nothing that should be completely overwhelming. If you're TOO reckless then you invite your demise, but if it's an area that is high trafficked by a story arch, then it shouldn't have this. The games flower as ALWAYS been Sarutabaruta -> Tahrongi -> Buburimu/Valkurn: With each level bracket allowing a little more and more freedom to travel further and further away from the starting cities.

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k627/Zeargi/Map1.jpg

A level 50 THFs quest is also impacted by this change, the the Canal for SMN is flooded with aggressive mobs that would destroy a level 50 player out to get a coffer for their AF.

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k627/Zeargi/Map2.jpg


I have no issue with the OP as laid out and actually support a change of that type. I even 'liked' it.

However, i'm a bit confused.

Just want to make sure i'm getting this right; having high lvl mobs, that can utterly destroy a newbie or returning player, in some of the earlier areas of the game, is now an unfair change and is disruptive to low lvl play? Having the looming threat of instant, one-shot death ever-present as a low lvl character trying to do a quest or even just exp doesn't bestow a drive or urge to lvl up and come back and kill said high lvl menaces?

So initial request aside, am i correct in the train of the thought behind that request Rosina?

There's a difference here, being 1-shoted by a monster you can beat relatively soon, rather than having to do Almost All limit breaks, Sub job quest, maybe a well re-equipping.

[Zerich]

But the Windurst Missions do: Rather than be cynical perhaps you should be supportive. There are quests as well as missions that require these places be explored.
The Dangruf stone a lvl. 10 quest put right in the midst of level 90+ mobs. The books can offer sneak and invisible, but once your remove it, you're SoL. You'd have to level to 25 as a WHM/RDM/SCH/DNC to make sure you could by pass this (But seeing how 2 of those are Advanced Jobs... You'd have to wait longer), or wait to 50 in order to sub those jobs. If you're a new player, it's not likely you'll have the gil to afford gear, weapons, and spells. Which is why you do quests anyway to get them free or the gil to purchase them. A stack of Prism Powder is 24k and Silent Oil is 25k on Sylph on the AH. It's not an un-reasonable request, the 'newb' areas are there for the starting players to get used to game mechanics and offer a bit of danger, but nothing that should be completely overwhelming. If you're TOO reckless then you invite your demise, but if it's an area that is high trafficked by a story arch, then it shouldn't have this. The games flower as ALWAYS been Sarutabaruta -> Tahrongi -> Buburimu/Valkurn: With each level bracket allowing a little more and more freedom to travel further and further away from the starting cities.

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k627/Zeargi/Map1.jpg

A level 50 THFs quest is also impacted by this change, the the Canal for SMN is flooded with aggressive mobs that would destroy a level 50 player out to get a coffer for their AF.

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k627/Zeargi/Map2.jpg



There's a difference here, being 1-shoted by a monster you can beat relatively soon, rather than having to do Almost All limit breaks, Sub job quest, maybe a well re-equipping.

dude, if you think you're a special snowflake who doesn't need to level a mage job for this game, then you better reevaluate what the true roadblock is.

[Zeargi]

dude, if you think you're a special snowflake who doesn't need to level a mage job for this game, then you better reevaluate what the true roadblock is.

You're missing the point entirely, but that's no surprise at all.

[Rosina]

dude, if you think you're a special snowflake who doesn't need to level a mage job for this game, then you better reevaluate what the true roadblock is.

zerich thanks for the tips done via links... I was a 95 dnc and I still got rolfstomped in this areas due to massive links. and bad timed waring of sneak/invise. Think either drk or blm have an AF quest in the canal. also. And the dangruf stone is also used in various other quests/missions think at one point it was one of the random items needed for a LB.


I wasn't really look for tips on mob avoidence... I just wanna beable to get my quests and missions done w/o too much of a pain. SE never gave a reason for the change and from what I saw on other servers these areas bare barely or not even used much. So why even increase the lvl? Why not just bump the lvl up in treasures area and add gov there... would make more sence i think.

[Demon6324236]

zerich thanks for the tips done via links... I was a 95 dnc and I still got rolfstomped in this areas due to massive links. and bad timed waring of sneak/invise. Think either drk or blm have an AF quest in the canal. also. And the dangruf stone is also used in various other quests/missions think at one point it was one of the random items needed for a LB.


I wasn't really look for tips on mob avoidence... I just wanna beable to get my quests and missions done w/o too much of a pain. SE never gave a reason for the change and from what I saw on other servers these areas bare barely or not even used much. So why even increase the lvl? Why not just bump the lvl up in treasures area and add gov there... would make more sence i think.

SE has been redoing alot of content, big examples of this are Dynamis, and anything the playerbase has decided to put the word Neo infront of. FoV(Fields of Valor) is no different, it had its remake that was GoV(Grounds of Valor), adding to this change however they added new mobs to make a difference more than just a book floating at entrances to caves. The higher level mobs being in old areas has always annoyed me since they did it, it even killed a soloing spot I used to love in the bottom of Crawlers nest, now inhabited by lv90ish mobs.

I have no doubt they will probably continue to add more GoV areas, I'm not sure how long its been since the last update, think it was a few months ago, so we should seen one soon. Last time it was beastmen strongholds, not the primary 3 beastmen, but Gigas, Ants, Tonberrys, and Goobues. Next we will probably see common beastmen(Orc/Quadav/Yagudo/Demon), then CoP areas, then Aht, and maybe even the past. Surprisingly the last update added no new high level mobs, which was weird, but welcome.

Honestly what they should have done in these cases was not add on to areas but make new ones with similar designs, only changing the mobs and putting something special in there you would want from a coffer or something. However this is alot like the other redone parts of the game, and is just the same thing recolored to look new. SE did mess it up for some, and I would like it fixed as much as the next person. Simply trying to explain why SE did it the way they did, or at least why I think they did it the way they did.

[annewandering]

I am not sure the impact is as bad as it is painted to be. I have been raising other characters lately. Two of them needed rank missions in the areas around windy that have high ranking mobs. I did use at least one sneak and invis. If you can not afford I believe I have seen them in books and in chests.
The only character I have had die there since the change was my exp capped main character because I did not know the high level mobs had been added.
I have no objection to changing back to previous levels but not so sure its such a major problem.

[Rosina]

I'm not asking for a reason, just saying it was an unforeseen or asked change. And anne its all on the person. if ur lucky ur lucky... sometimes ppl are not lucky. And i was here for the change just didn't see how bad it was till i had to start over. But bad or not, it wasn't a needed change. It was added for high lvls to do gov. I just want some close by areas to level up in and I would like to be able to do my low rank missions and quests t/o needing to beg for help or feel i need to be a max character.

I'm starting fresh so I barely have gil, my highest now is 18 thf. (changed servers last week) most gil I have is 9K atm i'm soloing in giddues which can be a pain due to high aggro/link.

I mean why its looking what would happen if SE dicide to make pal. mines, giddues and ghelbsha for/outpost into 80+ zones... thats kinda a sence to how it feels. No one would be able to do 2-3 or get kazham keys or farm fame in these areas untill they was max cap.

[Francisco]

I don't know much about the Windurst areas... but I think the changes to Fei'Yin and Ranguemont Pass are hideous.

[Rosina]

I don't know much about the Windurst areas... but I think the changes to Fei'Yin and Ranguemont Pass are hideous.

omg i forgot about that one.... those do suck hard...

[Demon6324236]

I don't know much about the Windurst areas... but I think the changes to Fei'Yin and Ranguemont Pass are hideous.

Very true, I cant imagine what would happen if you were a returning player, going to do the lv55 limit break and on your way you get killed by lv90ish mobs. That was the most insane thing I ever had happen after that.

[Anapingofness]

Well~ a new expansion could draw to attention to the game.

Well, it's not that the new expansion won't draw attention to the game. I've already spoken to a few people who are resubbed in anticipation of the expansion.

It's just that if SE doesn't actively try to get new players they won't get them- they may get some, mind you but not enough for it to be relevant. At best they'll get returning players.

[Modoru]

Let the record show I've never leveled a mage past 30, and I never will. Doesn't stop me from playing this game. Never used a mage to do any mission. :p

I only use BLM to warp around when doing small stuff like converting my currency. Nothin' else.

[Rosina]

Let the record show I've never leveled a mage past 30, and I never will. Doesn't stop me from playing this game. Never used a mage to do any mission. :p

I only use BLM to warp around when doing small stuff like converting my currency. Nothin' else.

ya you don't need to lvl a mage job if you don't want to. Its your character your choice. If ppl gotta issue tell them "unless you pay for my account stfu"

[Modoru]

Yeah, no, that's not exactly the way to go about it either, but moving on...

[Rosina]

Yeah, no, that's not exactly the way to go about it either, but moving on...

its the truth tho.. no one has a right to tell you how to play the game.. or force you to do things you don't enjoy. Unlike the forums, no one in game actually gives a shii. As long as the mob dies who the eff cares. FFxi forums paint a bad picture on the way the community is in game.

but that is beside the point..

no one should be "forced" to lvl a mage job just to do story line missions. in changed areas. The change wasn't needed and to my understanding not even asked for. It was done for the sake of it.

teamwork =/= forcing someone to play your because you say so.

[Trisscar]

People level Mage sub jobs as a matter of course, Rosina, regardless of weather those more powerful monsters existed in lowbie areas or not. All your arguments are invalid.

[Xantavia]

the areas near the dragon fights didn't get changed, and they removed the lvl 25 cap.

but i just remembered a change Danguf wadi was changed also, and now made it harder to 1) get to the lower part of the waterfall for a bastok quest. And 2) made it even harder to farm gausebit greens for chocobo quest. from my run throught, just a small section is still the same level. And only about 6 horder hares are around from what I saw.

Point of mmorpg is to progress from the start city. you do stuff outside the city, then you explore dungeon around the city, then you progress outward.

Oh, I know that, I was just using it as an example. Since the 2-3 fight used to be capped at 25, a party of players at 25 should be able to complete any mission together up to rank 3, which accidentally encountering these mobs wouldn't allow. The same thing in Fei'yin. Since 5-1 used to cap at 50, any party of 50 should in theory be able to complete missions up to that point.

To somebody else about having the books available to get snk/inv in exchange for tabs, this does not work for the Hor. Ruins. You have to drop inv to open the walls to continue.

I think SE did mob changes right when it came to the promyvian zones though. One path to the goal of the level was untouched so players could still do the missions at 30 like everybody had to originally. They then adjusted mobs on an alternate path to be a challenge to high level players if they wanted to fight something at their level. Which is why the changes to the Ruins is such a shame. There are multiple paths to the end, and I think the ideal solution would have been like "left path is filled with the original level mobs, right path has the high level one"

[Reiterpallasch]

its the truth tho.. no one has a right to tell you how to play the game.. or force you to do things you don't enjoy
Nope, but they sure as hell don't have to take you along to things you wanna do, either. Being a unique stubborn little snowflake will only get you so far. As far as playing alone can get, really.

If I need a mage and you only have DD, I'm not going to have a (superior) DD change to a mage just so you can continue to be special and not lvl a mage job.

[RAIST]

wow...this far in, and the most obvious way to get around the issue is still not being discussed.....

Team up with someone that can help you complete the quest. Whether that is a mage that can snk/inv you, or a higher level (or group of them) to cut a path for you.

After all....that's how it was done years before....at least, that's how I remember doing them. I even remember specifically being asked to tag along through places like Necro, GC, QSC, Bedeaux..... as a 38 WHM to help some friends farm coffer keys/coffers...I went along and got to skill up magics, got me coffer keys for use later...sometimes even got to skillup club and staff when I got to higher level BLM/WHM and all.....and always had a blast doing it.

[Rosina]

Nope, but they sure as hell don't have to take you along to things you wanna do, either. Being a unique stubborn little snowflake will only get you so far. As far as playing alone can get, really.

If I need a mage and you only have DD, I'm not going to have a (superior) DD change to a mage just so you can continue to be special and not lvl a mage job.

may i ask where this special snowflake bs is coming from? I never heard of this type of talk in game. I was just making a comment having been playing since ps2 launch day.

But point still stands can you guys stop assuming people are starting arguements just because they dislike or disagree with what you say? can you please stop with the insults? Can you please try to be on topic?

All i get from you handful of posters is nothing but insults, and topic derailments. Then pin it on others. Zerich being the worst of the lot. ffxi isn't high school so can the queen bee bs. No one actually effin cares in game.

[Demon6324236]

RAIST, while I agree with you teaming up is good it does not solve part of the problem. I will admit that it is a good idea on what to do but can you honestly tell anyone it sounds right that for a Windurstian to complete a rank 2 mission (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Lost_for_Words) they need a lv90~99 bodyguard? Same with the second limit break, again you would need a level 90~99 body guard to get there unless you know the back roads that use the [S] areas, which by lv55 you are not likely going to have found out about yet. The high level mobs being added was a nice idea however it was poorly implemented, as I said SE did it to follow their current trend on content but the way they did it was to much in the way.

[Rosina]

Raist, its not that easy to team up with ppl doing old content stuff. A factor to my stoping ffxi 6mnths ago outside money, was being told but alot of LS mates that what I needed help with was "beneath them" or "not worth their time". I actually had to beg my ex to help me which was embarrassing enough cuz I was the one who dumped him. Alot of stuff is changing to be solo-able. I have no issue asking for help. Just actually getting the help is hard. I'm in reality pretty nice and helpful and the current LS i'm in asks me questions about the content or quests. And cuz of my good gaming memory I can give them quick responces of detailed quests w/o having to look up wiki. So its not like I don't help back...

[Draylo]

That's hardly helping as you're not expending much of your own time to go out of your way unless it takes you extra effort to think of a quick answer to a common question about a quest. I can't stand people that beg for help 24/7, so damn helpless. You can solo so much content now if not you can always go to shouting or getting yourself a mule. When people play this game they play for themselves in most cases, its just how the world works. They don't wanna sit down after a long day at work or school and have to help some random scrubs all the time. Most only help or do things due to ulterior motives such as mutual benefit or being able to call in a favor. I wouldn't want to help someone that begs all the time and helps in return by looking up an answer on wiki for a random question.

[RAIST]

Raist, its not that easy to team up with ppl doing old content stuff. A factor to my stoping ffxi 6mnths ago outside money, was being told but alot of LS mates that what I needed help with was "beneath them" or "not worth their time". I actually had to beg my ex to help me which was embarrassing enough cuz I was the one who dumped him. Alot of stuff is changing to be solo-able. I have no issue asking for help. Just actually getting the help is hard. I'm in reality pretty nice and helpful and the current LS i'm in asks me questions about the content or quests. And cuz of my good gaming memory I can give them quick responces of detailed quests w/o having to look up wiki. So its not like I don't help back...

Then you are running with the wrong people I guess. People get help from our LS members all the time. I've added a lot of friends myself in the past year doing that very thing, even picked up some new LS members out of it. Many times someone will bring it up in LS that someone has been shouting for help with something to see if anyone can help them because they are already commited to an event....often someone jumps in. Not too long ago, I knocked out two GK's for a complete stranger's wife--took her to the glacier crystal and showed her the maw and OP and such, simply because he asked politely. So many of these things take virtually no time to help someone with now on 99 jobs. Guess you're just not having any luck finding people willing to help you with these things for some reason....which is odd, considering in my experience it hasn't really been a problem.

All I know is I would have never completed my level caps and tons of other content way back when if not for the help of friends I made along the way....some whom I still play with to this very day I might add. This game was never meant to be so much of a soloable experience as people are hell-bent on making it now. It is, after all, an MMO.

[RAIST]

RAIST, while I agree with you teaming up is good it does not solve part of the problem. I will admit that it is a good idea on what to do but can you honestly tell anyone it sounds right that for a Windurstian to complete a rank 2 mission (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Lost_for_Words) they need a lv90~99 bodyguard? Same with the second limit break, again you would need a level 90~99 body guard to get there unless you know the back roads that use the [S] areas, which by lv55 you are not likely going to have found out about yet. The high level mobs being added was a nice idea however it was poorly implemented, as I said SE did it to follow their current trend on content but the way they did it was to much in the way.

not exactly the best examples for your argument....but I get what you're saying. But still, that's not really that much of a design issue. Even before these higher mobs were added, many jobs could still get their face eaten trying to solo a lot of older content. The point I think you're missing is that even in the past, a lot of this stuff still almost required you to enlist help to accomplish them (depending on what jobs you had available). So, in a way....nothing has changed except that instead of enlisting a level 75 player (the cap at the time), you would be enlisting a level 99 player (the new cap).

[Rosina]

Draylo i can tell you didn't read my post and just blindely replied with some insults.. outside the insults you do make a good point. And I also ask if people are busy before asking if I need help. But replying to a question IS helping. They do have to stop what they are doing to type. I don't use wiki cuz I have no means to. I just rerolled 70 times and remember alot of stuff I did over the years. But I also do help people with nm and the like or help them level up.

And raist I know thats why I left the server. I never bug ppl to help me unless i really needed it. I personally perfer to help other more then get help for myself, its just how I was raised.

I'm also always up for planing for help in the near future. And not ask for it to be done right away.

[RAIST]

Well...it's kinda of hard to get help with something if you aren't asking for it.

And there's a difference between trying to do it yourself, failing miserably, then asking for help and asking someone to simply do it all for you. There are those who earn the help of others because they see them struggling....sometimes the help comes unsolicited even. Guess it's all in how you communicate with other players.

[Rosina]

not exactly the best examples for your argument....but I get what you're saying. But still, that's not really that much of a design issue. Even before these higher mobs were added, many jobs could still get their face eaten trying to solo a lot of older content. The point I think you're missing is that even in the past, a lot of this stuff still almost required you to enlist help to accomplish them (depending on what jobs you had available). So, in a way....nothing has changed except that instead of enlisting a level 75 player (the cap at the time), you would be enlisting a level 99 player (the new cap).

just to clear something up... these mobs are also in low level quest areas... for r1 level quests. such as "making headlines" "minesweeper" I'm avtually curious how you can do the "hidden" escort quest in dangruf wadi... since that area i think got changed.... I'm all for teamwork and getting/helping ppl... but these quests are for lvl1-10... shouldn't have to get help

[Rosina]

Well...it's kinda of hard to get help with something if you aren't asking for it.

And there's a difference between trying to do it yourself, failing miserably, then asking for help and asking someone to simply do it all for you. There are those who earn the help of others because they see them struggling....sometimes the help comes unsolicited even. Guess it's all in how you communicate with other players.

oh i ask trust me. I go "hey is anyone busy?" typically get a yes or no responce. Then I ask well at some point can someone help me with something? I get a few sures, what is it... Then I say... 2-3 dragon or one of the quests i made mention of... replies i get typically... "oh just level to cap and solo them" or "umm that is beneath me if you need help with abyssea set i'm all for it"

[RAIST]

oh i ask trust me. I go "hey is anyone busy?" typically get a yes or no responce. Then I ask well at some point can someone help me with something? I get a few sures, what is it... Then I say... 2-3 dragon or one of the quests i made mention of... replies i get typically... "oh just level to cap and solo them" or "umm that is beneath me if you need help with abyssea set i'm all for it"

Again..that's an issue with the players involved....not necessarily an issue with game design.

[Rosina]

Again..that's an issue with the players involved....not necessarily an issue with game design.

I understand.. But if the change wasn't needed it could be fixed to improve game quality. If they can change it It what I'm asking but If they can't no worries. But it would be benificial considering i don't see anyone in these areas... If it is an issue to change it back I understand but I don't think it should be.

[RAIST]

just to clear something up... these mobs are also in low level quest areas... for r1 level quests. such as "making headlines" "minesweeper" I'm avtually curious how you can do the "hidden" escort quest in dangruf wadi... since that area i think got changed.... I'm all for teamwork and getting/helping ppl... but these quests are for lvl1-10... shouldn't have to get help

Well.... lets looks at them then:

Making headlines, from the wiki:

■Sneak and Invisible are necessary for the level 85+ monsters that are now behind all cracked walls in the Inner Horutoto Ruins..
Seems pretty self-explanatory....either you snk/inv yourself, you bring someone who can do it for you, or you get oils/powders either by buying them or have someone make them.

Minesweeper: All you ever needed to avoid aggro in that zone was sneak if I remember correctly....and SE acknowledged there was an issue with this zone and adjusted it a long time ago. You could easily get to the mobs you needed to get the soot before, and you can do so now as well.

All By Myself (assuming this is the one you are talking about), again...from the wiki:

■A higher level player not in the party can run ahead of Ken and kill most or all of the mobs in his way. This will drastically reduce the difficulty on this quest.
Just like so many of the other escort quests....there are predictable paths that can be cleared by higher players.

Again, some of these quests potentially would have required higher level assistance in the past....the only thing that has changed is that in some cases, it is more necessary than before....for others (like GK's) it is just as necessary as it has always been.

[RAIST]

I understand.. But if the change wasn't needed it could be fixed to improve game quality. If they can change it It what I'm asking but If they can't no worries. But it would be benificial considering i don't see anyone in these areas... If it is an issue to change it back I understand but I don't think it should be.

Think I've found the problem here..... you aren't getting the point.

Even if they reverted them back.....for a lot of this content---you would STILL NEED HIGHER LEVEL HELP, OR LEVEL UP HIGHER TO DO THEM.

[Rosina]

Think I've found the problem here..... you aren't getting the point.

Even if they reverted them back.....for a lot of this content---you would STILL NEED HIGHER LEVEL HELP, OR LEVEL UP HIGHER TO DO THEM.

umm i got the point a while ago >.>;; sorry if it didn't seem like it. But reverting the mobs back to original levels you can solo those quests @ 10. Soot is actually droped from the mobs, and u need a high lvl to kill them The mines zone was infact a 5-10 solo spot. I'm also not just talking quest areas... I'm talking leveling spots.

May I ask something... tips aside... why are you not supportive of them changing the levels back to how they used to be? I'm greatful for the advice, but I also wasn't asking for it. I'm suggesting a change to help improve the game for low level players w/o feeling they need to ask for help for basic content THAT AT ONE POINT was soloable.

[Infidi]

If I'm not mistaken those mobs are used for GoV pages so taking them out completely(changing the level back) would make said pages inoperable ? At the very least they probably wouldn't do it to justify the man hours they spent changing them in the first place . This IS SE we are talking about here . :D

[RAIST]

The problem is, the quests haven't changed that much as far as there being a chance for death if you are solo.

For example, you have an issue with All by Myself because you were restricted to level 10. This still posed an issue with aggro and potential death for a WHM back then, still does now (aggressive mobs in path that were over level 10). Yeah, you could get lucky and maybe pull it off solo....but there was always certain spots where you could get aggro and would need assistance with that quest.

The same goes for geting the soot....it's just as easy now as it was in the past to get to mobs that drop the soot at the same levels--you sneak past the harder mobs you can't solo to get to the ones that you can solo.

The list goes on, I'm sure if you were to sit down and do a serious before/after comparison of them.

This is true for a lot of the older content in these areas.....which renders the point rather moot. If all you require is snk/inv now, and that is all that was required then.....you face the same issues. So, you are essentially asking to change something that really doesn't provide the change you ultimately desire....being able to solo something that the designers may have never really intended to be soloed, as it is an MMO and not a solo RPG.

[Edit:]
something about that soot quest just didn't jive... and sure enough, my suspicions were correct. Ran out to the mines...and there are bats right there when you zone in, level 1-3 that drop the soot. Sent Garuda after two bats, got one soot. So... this particular example you provided is completely null and void on this debate.

[Rosina]

making head lines is an r1 level quest that requires you to collect newspaper reports from each area of windurst then with the report of nanaa mihgo you need to find her hide out. The area where the hide out was at one point a lvl 10-15 area. It did not require any form of help. It was just a basic quest. The area to get to this spot was I think where mission R1 M1 was located. What you did was find a cracked door and got into the underbelly of the ruins. Then click the door. Thats it. no fight no nothing. Soot... all you did was kill mobs get the soot item zone was level 5-10 solo. Rank 1 and rank 2 till 2-3 was mostly soloable by level 25.

The books can be changed to relect the low level area also. Gusgen mines wasn't changed for gov.... not all gov zones had level adjustments.

I'm also not asking for solo content... raise I know this is an mmorpg... been playing it for 7 years dude lol. This is the last mmorpg that actually relays on parties (big reason i'm playing it tbh)

[Rosina]

to add since i can't edit and add. There are 6 mobs from 1-3... in that top areas and high levels kill them for the skill up ring in the chest you can get. I never actually suggested a change to said zone either. Mostly the windurst areas. But this topic is not just on quests, missions but also early solo leveling places. The areas I listed was great for soloing around windurst which has the most confusing topography in the regions.

I did ask why you seem to be against the change. I'm not fighting, but It somes seem to don't get my point. But reguardless thanks for the tips.

[RAIST]

Then why do you keep coming back with a complaint that it can't be soloed now like it could be before....when infact, a low level player was under threat of death then and still is now?

And that area for Making Headlines was not a level 10-15 area. You might have xp'ed in some spots at that level, but mobs there went up into the 20's in the past. So, if you were doing that at earlier levels (ie, level 10-15), you were still under threat for aggro back then.

Again.....there was potential risk then....and there is potential risk now--but in both the past/present, the same methods for negating the risk is the same.

Oh, and you were complaining that a level 10 player can't farm soot for the quest....well...I just dispelled that complaint. I'm guessing you haven't been there lately.

[RAIST]

to add since i can't edit and add. There are 6 mobs from 1-3... in that top areas and high levels kill them for the skill up ring in the chest you can get. I never actually suggested a change to said zone either. Mostly the windurst areas. But this topic is not just on quests, missions but also early solo leveling places. The areas I listed was great for soloing around windurst which has the most confusing topography in the regions.

I did ask why you seem to be against the change. I'm not fighting, but It somes seem to don't get my point. But reguardless thanks for the tips.

Quite simply, the changes are not needed, and will drastically upset the structure of what the game has evolved into. You might want to take some time to review the FOV/GOV lists for those zones. They are laid out quite well to get you leveled up in a very streamlined fasion, especially with the double xp tweak.

[Edit:] just walked the path for All By Myself quest... no new threats there, nothing but the same worms, crabs, lizards, and gobs that have always been there. So.... that example is dispelled. So, the only quests you've provided an example for is one that is easily remedied by having a reliable means for snk/inv to complete it.

[Edit2:]

There are 6 mobs from 1-3... in that top areas and high levels kill them for the skill up ring in the chest you can getWhaaaat??!! High levels killing level 1-3 mobs for prowess to get the rings? Did you really just state that? /facepalm.

[Rosina]

Quite simply, the changes are not needed, and will drastically upset the structure of what the game has evolved into. You might want to take some time to review the FOV/GOV lists for those zones. They are laid out quite well to get you leveled up in a very streamlined fasion, especially with the double xp tweak.

But if no one is actually USING said zones, why should the change matter.

All i see people doing is solo to 10.... leech/burn in gusgen mines till about 24. Then leech/burn in crawlers nest till aboit 30-70. then leech burn in abyssea zones of la theine, the range, and the desert. I barely seen anyone in the ruins or canal.

The changes were not needed in the first place. I'm not asking to change every zone. Just the windurst region for better leveling @ lower levels, ease of doing quests that were/are easy.

You can still have gov in the area just present at the old level. Why does these basic areas need to be high level?

You may not see a need... but I do.

[Rosina]

to add.. It wasn't an example just a question if it was or not. I only tried this quest once... i'm not fond on chase ken for barbie... XD (sorry i had too she does look like barbie)

[RAIST]

But if no one is actually USING said zones, why should the change matter.

All i see people doing is solo to 10.... leech/burn in gusgen mines till about 24. Then leech/burn in crawlers nest till aboit 30-70. then leech burn in abyssea zones of la theine, the range, and the desert. I barely seen anyone in the ruins or canal.

The changes were not needed in the first place. I'm not asking to change every zone. Just the windurst region for better leveling @ lower levels, ease of doing quests that were/are easy.

You can still have gov in the area just present at the old level. Why does these basic areas need to be high level?

You may not see a need... but I do.

Highlighted the problem....perception is key. That is what YOU may be seeing, doesn't necessarily mean that is the way it is for everyone. If people want to fast-track the xp, they can book/aby burn. If they want to use alternate methods they can....the option is there for them to use. The FoV/GoV system allow them to have the best of both worlds from level 1 to level 99 if they so choose. Reversing the higher levels may cut out the camps for the top tier sections...and simply isn't necessary because there are already lower level camps to use. All that would do is nerf the upper level camps, to solve a problem that simply does not exist.

Oh, and I actually counted 8 bats and 2 crabs in that top level--and the crabs drop soot too. Just saying... it appears SE tried to be careful about preserving opportunities when they made these changes. Perhaps more research and creativity needs to be used because things have shifted a bit. At quick glance, it doesn't appear to be anything about the higher level mobs outright preventing one from participating in the content, providing one takes the proper precautions....which has always been true for these things---be prepared.

[Edit:]
just glancing at the Grounds Tome and Field Manual lists.... I really don't get what you are uptight about. Technically, you can solo from 1-38 JUST in Inner Horutoto, or if you prefer start in the Sara and work your way out to horutoto for the higher levels. The system is laid out so that you can run all the way into the 20's or higher extremely close to home, then start branching further out into neighboring regions in tiers like we always did in the past (except the camps are viable longer because of all the bonus xp, so you change camps less often). The books coupled with the double xp just ramped it up to an extremely fast pace in comparison to how it was years ago.

[Trumpy]

these mobs were mostly added i believe to give alternative spots to level if you didnt have the abyssea expansions (I think SE tries its hardest not to require expansions where they can). yes those people do still exist. While i do see the need for this, some of the changes have been bad, when interfering with quests ect. I recently started a alt character to dual box with and many of these quest are just easier for me just because i'm there along side it on my 99 JOB doing everything for my level 10 or whatever level at the time mule and the fact i know what im doin or know the areas layout.
I think there is a difference betwixt a person who has played the game years doin these quests on their new chars and someone jsut starting. theres alot of new players just completely ignorant of many game mechanis and features and shortcuts and other ways around things. hell there are people that have played for years that dont know how to do things until ive told them bout them (some dont even read update notes and are clueless to any change ingame no matter how big or small /gasp!). Some of them dont even understand porter moogles and storage slips somehow.
ive seen many occasions people killin those low level mobs in mines for caskets (ive even done it, tho i resist when i see a lower level guy there. others are just douches).

[Rosina]

Raist i'm going to sun up how you sound. If this is not how you are trying to come off like feel free to correct me.

Raist opinion: I feel this change isn't needed because high levels may need places to go. Who cares if these were once low level locations for newbies/lowbies to level in. Who cares if low level quests are in these areas they can get help if they need it which isn't hard, because i get help all the time. I don't care if a low level play needs to spend 15 min traveling to get to exp spots, my level 99 job just needs to walk 5 min.

that is how you sound. And i'm not joking either, nor picking a fight.
I'm happy they added fov/gov. But the low level zones into high level zones just outside towns was not needed. It skrews the leveling for low level forcing them to travel father. The tower change i'm talking about is the north tower in west sarutabaruta. It was a good location from 5-13. Great zone set up not too much aggro/link. The R1 mission towers are crap to level up in.

[Rosina]

(text limit)
as i was typing, the lay out is poor and the mobs have a high aggro and link. I've actually tried soloing these back in 2004 when i first started this game. And all i got was death on death on death. Just from bat aggro. Not to mention you have to worry about bombs. Self destruct is not fun.

I also tried the cardian.. that was a bust.. too much linkage.

I don't follow most leveling guides though helpful its based off the fact the person has a max cap already. And some suggestion are not good for a fresh character.

Pretty much SE is cutting off low level location high level already have a ton od solo/gov spots outside of starter cities. lower level should have a choice nut be muscled out by high levels. So again I state this change in areas was not needed and can be revereted if possible to give newbies/ lobies places to lvl in windurst, because there isn't much in terms of safety from constent/link or spending most of the time walking around.

[Rosina]

simply put raist... you come off as scrooge from christmas carol in the scene where two charity collecters were asking him to donate, he refused saying his taxes go to jails, work houses, and poor houses that he shouldn't have to donate because ppl can go there.

[Zerich]

Cool irrelevant example Rosa. Its irrelevant just like your job level (severely under leveled) is as relevant to your claims of in game knowledge.

[Rosina]

Cool irrelevant example Rosa. Its irrelevant just like your job level (severely under leveled) is as relevant to your claims of in game knowledge.

not really.. i was giving an example of how raist sounded. And i'm just coming back from a 6mth break but reading up these forums since they were out. My level is due to having just started fresh on a server I just joined. I have been upfront about how long I have played this game and my highest levels. i also been upfront of how many times i started fresh the servers I have been on. And various places I tried.

i've play this game from 2004-2009 w/o a break. from 2009-2012 i took in overall 15 mnths in breaks. 1 break was 3 mnths due to 360 red ring, 1 breaks was 6 mnths due to my break up with my b/f. then another 6 mnths due to playment issues. But i played at least 5 mnths inbetween breaks. I also spend my time talking to ppl. Also 2004-2005 i was playing 2-4 hrs a day from 2005 to present i spend about 12-20 hr a day.

[Rosina]

pretty much with that all said, I know a decent bit of how the community works in game. Also i was upfront about how many servers i was on and number of LS's. Not one person said anything to me on how i act in game.

But really this was a suggestion, one that i do hope is used, but if not no real issue. considering a key bit was "if these zones are not really used. and if it was possible to change it"

[Xantavia]

And that area for Making Headlines was not a level 10-15 area. You might have xp'ed in some spots at that level, but mobs there went up into the 20's in the past. So, if you were doing that at earlier levels (ie, level 10-15), you were still under threat for aggro back then.

Again.....there was potential risk then....and there is potential risk now--but in both the past/present, the same methods for negating the risk is the same.
But the risk isn't exactly the same. In the past, say you get a couple of friends of similar level to do the quest and you get aggro from a level 20 mob, there is a decent chance of survival. Try to do that now and aggro from a level 80 mob is certain death. Since it is an MMORPG, challenges should be appropriate for a party at the quest level. And with some of the new mobs this is not the case.

[katiekat]

you know i used to think this forums were a good idea now not so much.

there is oh-most no topic that is not derailed by comments against the TC or another poster by players that dislike them and feal the knead to insult or call out that poster every time they post. and when sum one calls them on it you get a response of "i have to call him/her out because he/she is giving bad info. hath the time the person being insulted has not even said anything wrong.

yes yes i know its a internet forum and that's how mmo forums are but my point is its a sad day when posters have to rezolt to insults to one another raver then just staying out of the topic. if you don't agree with the poster or if you do disagree state why and leave the insults and snide comments out as much as you can.

i come to this forums to talk about FF XI or read posters talk about FF XI not lisin to 200 page long topics about how one player is a noob because of how they play or why players that do or don't use aby are noobs.

now i am starting to think the best thing SE could do is shut down the forums and just do-what they want as it seams at this point the topics just are a pile of venom.

[Continuity]

Making headlines, from the wiki:
.
Seems pretty self-explanatory....either you snk/inv yourself, you bring someone who can do it for you, or you get oils/powders either by buying them or have someone make them.

No RAIST, that's not the full story. Sneak and invisible wear off when you interact with objects such as the Mahogany Door, which means that once the cut scene ends, you die due to the proximity of the mobs to the door. I'm sorry, but there's no legitimate excuse to force a character to die in order to complete a low level quest. I remember how it was before the change, and it was never a guaranteed death before, regardless of level. The goblins that used to be in the area were far enough away from the door to be avoided.

Sure, it's not a major issue, and I don't want SE to devote time to it if it means they can't fix more important things... but there's no reason to defend the poor design decision here.

[Demon6324236]

you know i used to think this forums were a good idea now not so much.

there is oh-most no topic that is not derailed by comments against the TC or another poster by players that dislike them and feal the knead to insult or call out that poster every time they post. and when sum one calls them on it you get a response of "i have to call him/her out because he/she is giving bad info. hath the time the person being insulted has not even said anything wrong.

yes yes i know its a internet forum and that's how mmo forums are but my point is its a sad day when posters have to rezolt to insults to one another raver then just staying out of the topic. if you don't agree with the poster or if you do disagree state why and leave the insults and snide comments out as much as you can.

i come to this forums to talk about FF XI or read posters talk about FF XI not lisin to 200 page long topics about how one player is a noob because of how they play or why players that do or don't use aby are noobs.

now i am starting to think the best thing SE could do is shut down the forums and just do-what they want as it seams at this point the topics just are a pile of venom.

Not only that but SE ignores us alot as well. We make ideas and suggestions, give feedback, and alot of the time we get told its impossible and cant be done for blah blah reason or its against their ideas/design.

[Rosina]

Not only that but SE ignores us alot as well. We make ideas and suggestions, give feedback, and alot of the time we get told its impossible and cant be done for blah blah reason or its against their ideas/design.

hate to be the bringer of bad news, but.... most ideas people make are beyond the algorythems(sp?) of how pc programing works, or so big SE can't simply do it. The devs know the game code best. But they do for the most part listen... but itsn't some some conspiricy if they can't do the idea.

all we can do is propose suggestions, but with this community it is hard to really SEE the suggestion... cuz what happens is ppl attack each other trying to discredit the poster just to feel good about themselves cuz its "cool" to pick on someone you don't know. And some suggestion are poorly made as in the suggestion itself attacks a group of players.

anyway thats my 2 cents. If my suggestion gets used or not idc... I said my peace put the best case for my idea.

[Demon6324236]

They have told us they can not do things that players have already done with programs like Windower. I refuse to believe that a group of people can do something on the game more than the company who made it. It just seems more likely they don't want to do it because they think it will create chaos or it goes against what they were going to do.

[Rosina]

They have told us they can not do things that players have already done with programs like Windower. I refuse to believe that a group of people can do something on the game more than the company who made it. It just seems more likely they don't want to do it because they think it will create chaos or it goes against what they were going to do.

because its a bit different... windower is a third party tool yes? And you can run add-ons through said tool yes? It's different between running an addon on with a game then having it intergrated in the actual games code work. SE know the code and frame work best. They know what limits they have. And it is their game, they have the final say. Being upset over the fact they can't do or do not want to do certain things is a tad silly. It is just a game. But please keep on topic... there is alreafy a conspiricy thoery thread. Post you concerns there not here.

[RAIST]

OK.. so many to respond too... where to start....

@ Rosina
You keep ignoring the fact that in addition to them adding the higher level mobs in the areas once populated with lower level monsters, they've also restructured things elswhere to offset the loss. There are new paths to take for leveling at those levels in question. Again, if you would take the time to review the FoV/GoV lists, you could discern a new pattern to follow, and would notice that you can actually level without having to run as far away as you had in the past. As I mentioned previously, you can now break into the 20's close to home nations now---in the past, you ran to dunes/quifm to do this. The game has evolved, and exp has simply become much easier....it sounds more and more like you are just resistant to the new changes because you are stuck somewhere in 2006 or something, IDK. But exping up to level 30 is NOT a problem in this game anymore, probably for a reason--ie: Abyssea, perhaps?

And no, I'm not a Scrooge. I'm just more practical I guess. When a person can now follow a simpler path and get their levels without having to run all over the map now....I generally see that as a good thing. Initially, I was skeptical of the faster leveling and had my concerns, but have generally accepted this is the direction the game is now taking, and that most players have embraced it. What's done is done, and will not likely be undone--adapt and move forward.

The game has simply changed a lot in recent years, there are alternative ways to get things done now. Sometimes, you may have to think outside of the box....like those before us did in 2004. If anything, this opens new opportunities to try new strategies....should be refreshing if you truly are an adventurer at heart. For the most part, you can continue with the older playstyles if you so choose, just might have to change some areas up a bit....but there is still a path.It sounds more like you are just resistant to these changes because it is a change....and you don't like change? IDK. You pointed out specific areas/events that were now locked out, I looked them up, checked them out...and showed you how they can still be done....and you still rebutted against it, even after being shown it is still doable--guess you just don't like that you may have to approach it differently, even though it is still doable under basically the same conditions as before. Cae in point:

I don't follow most leveling guides though helpful its based off the fact the person has a max cap already. And some suggestion are not good for a fresh character.
Regardless if it is a level 99 character or a level one character---the same criteria are used for looking these up: the level of the targets in the camps. If the mobs are the right level for fighting at the desired character level, and are decent mobs to fight based on their TP moves, magic, aggro/linking traits, etc. .... they are viable lists to be considered. Maybe this is more of that resistance to change kicking in, IDK. But a lot of those guides have been vetted and used by many. If you aren't willing to follow them, that is your choice....but don't act like you have no recourse to accomplish a goal when valid plans have been laid out for you that would allow you to complete them and you simply choose not to follow one. It was your choice to buck the system and take the path less trodden....more difficulties should be expected, as people tend to follow the path of least resistance for a reason.

@ Xantavia and Cointinuity
Yes, I agree the mobs are higher and that poses a different threat leve....but the base threat of a death is still the same. As stated earlier, in the past you would have still gathered up a group to help you. The only thing different is that you may need characters of a different caliber in some of those areas. But, for the most part, this is not the case. As in the examples set forth to me....the mobs were still the same level as before: a level 10 cap on the quest, mobs still ran up to level 12 or 16 in certain spots. The higher level targets were in a completely different section of the map. In another example, the level appropriate mobs were just restricted to one section of the map now, and you are not even under threat at all from the higher level targets--the lower level ones are right there where you zone in.

This has become a common issue with this key poster in this debate session. A challenge is set forth, or examples of an issue are put forth. Once those have been dispelled, the name calling begins. Notice that the topic quickly strayed from the topic in debate, and has now become personal. But that is another issue...back to the topic.

Yes.. Sneak/inv can wear in route and has to be recast--that has always been an issue, but remember, they did tweak them so they stay up longer now. And, yes, they may have to be taken down or wear when taking the final steps for a quest/mission, rendering a player susceptible to aggro from nasty critters. This is often why we would always ask for assistance from level appropriate friends if we couldn't manage it on our own. This is nothing new. There is a loooong list of events where this is a problem.

The bigger point is these issues have always been there, probably always will be. IDK how many times I've had to hide in a corner, waiting for the right opportunity to pop a chest, or click a door when mobs weren't looking at me, hoping and praying my warp scroll would fire before they broke through my Blink/SS or Phalanx/Shadows and killed me. This is NOTHING NEW. The only difference is that now, it may require higher level help than it may have in the past for a few isolated situations. If a player does not have a decent group of friends to pull from for this kind of assistance, then that is a problem....but not necessarily a problem with the game design. If they are 99 and don't want to help them with an area that has level 85 mobs, what makes you think they would react differently if they were level 16 mobs? Or vice versa? If they are not the type of "friends" willing to help a person in need, they simply aren't going to help you. That is a completely different animal than mob layout in a zone.

And lol at forcing a character to die to complete a quest. This is also nothing new. It's a common tactic in a lot of areas. Getting some of the tele/recall/warp quest objectives, Castle Oz/Beaudeux/davoi runs to get the ??? for GK, Getting into Ifrit's via the shortcut (die, tractor), popping coffers for AF, getting behind gate in GC (die at ledge, tractor up and reriase), death runs to spires and tractor/raise to the entrance when it was a level 30 cap, death runs to the throne room (still wind up doing this sometimes in the past version).....so many we could probably fill the page if we really thought about it.

And now, with how easy xp comes now....xp recovery from death is a moot point when you can simply kill a few mobs and get it back. Seriously...to cry about dying after you click a door and complete an objective....(by the way, they fixed a lot of these so you drop aggro when you kick off the CS, so you still get the credit even if you get aggro and die afterwards). It is really a trivial thing to complain about resorting to the death run tactics now in comparison to how it used to be.

[RAIST]

because its a bit different... windower is a third party tool yes? And you can run add-ons through said tool yes? It's different between running an addon on with a game then having it intergrated in the actual games code work. SE know the code and frame work best. They know what limits they have. And it is their game, they have the final say. Being upset over the fact they can't do or do not want to do certain things is a tad silly. It is just a game. But please keep on topic... there is alreafy a conspiricy thoery thread. Post you concerns there not here.

Actually, no. It's because the ones doing it in Windower are doing it in a Windows environment and are taking advantage of the access to more resources that FFXI doesn't take advantage of because SE is determined to keep FFXI on PC running within the scope of the PS2 restrictions embedded in the core code. If SE were to step further outside of these limitations on the non PS2 platforms, a lot of these things could be done (at least for the PC version of the game).

Unfortunately, this is not the case. They are loosening the reigns a little with the coming UI changes....which is a start. Hopefully, the trend continues and we'll see some bigger changes when SoA comes out.

[bungiefanNA]

I have no idea why they changed these areas for gov. I find it a pointless change as there was alot of high level locations. Abyssea being one of them. I find it an unfair change and simple want it to back to how it used to be. So players have places to level up near windurst. Ans the ability to get these mission and quests done that require to go through the mage door.

The high level mobs were introduced to have it so there are EXP locations in every dungeon for people 75+ without Abyssea. They're also there so every region can be conquered by high level players, and so that Trial of the Magians can be done, since you need mobs that are worth EXP if you are doing the trial at 99.

http://parchmentpaper.blogspot.com/2011/05/new-level-75-dungeon-enemies-where-they.html#more

That maps out where the high level mobs are, and which ones aggro. Many are passive, except beastmen and undead. What could be useful is pointing out every quest/mission ??? where these new mobs are, and having the devs relocate them to low level areas or redo mob placement to have non-aggressive mobs around them.

[RAIST]

I'm happy they added fov/gov. But the low level zones into high level zones just outside towns was not needed. It skrews the leveling for low level forcing them to travel father. The tower change i'm talking about is the north tower in west sarutabaruta. It was a good location from 5-13. Great zone set up not too much aggro/link. The R1 mission towers are crap to level up in.

Out of cuiriosity, are you talking about Amyrillis tower, that leads to Outer horutoto ruins? According to the GoV list for that zone, there are still mobs in brackets running 10-14, 15-19, 20-24, 25-29.... looks like you could technically run all the way up near level 50 in Outer if you move around a bit.

Maybe they changed the layout a bit and you have to use a different tower, IDK.. haven't spent much time there outside of escorting people for quests in recent times....but it appears the zone is still viable for the levels you want, just might have to find a different room or hallway than before is all.

[Edit:]
Wel... first thing I run into... Stink Bats... level 15-18, Assorted Goblins range 10-14. Think those have always been there. Moving into the antechambers....

Rotten Jam...level 12-15 and a goblin NM (Legalox Heftyhand, level 33), a group of 4 90-ish players slaughtering what checked as EP bats and stuff in the tunnel behind the cracked wall to the east. More level 10-14 gobs and level 15-18 bats in the room to the west.

IDK.. so far, that initial room still looks the same as it ever was, and is still viable for the same level players as it was before they added the higher level mobs deeper in.

[Edit 2:]
Put up sneak and ran past the higher level puddings/bats and at the back alley along G-9 to G-7 (the cracked wall section) I found the same ghouls and combats that have always been there (23-26 and 20-23), as well as a treasure chest. That's the same as it ever was.

So, access to that section is still more or less the same as it ever was, you just HAVE to use sneak to get back there now to avoid aggro, where as before you might have been able to avoid aggro if high enough or just fight your way through it...but if your objective was to get back there as quickly as possible in the past, you would have gone in stealth mode...so, doesn't necessarly change the strategy for this section.

[Edit 3:]
Seems this is further much ado about nothing....did some more exploring. For Making Headlines, there is not real serious threat. Zoned into the tower....level 1-7 mobs there. When I entered the tunnels through the cracked wall, yes...there were 80-ish mobs, easily avoided with stealth tactics. Got back to the mahogany door....and it was an empty room (save for a grounds tome). That's right... no mobs to aggro you when you click the door. 80-ish bats in the tunnel leading to the room, but nothing in the room. Could click the door, and use the tome to repatriate (to avoid running back through) with NO THREAT OF AGGRO. I then ran down towards the Magic Gizmo section.

***Note, I casted sneak/inv with a 49 WHM subjob, enhancing skill only 139... and they stayed up until I had to remove invis to open the gate, but sneak lasted until I got to the cracked wall---it just wore as I'm standing there typing this.

That hall at the gate door---empty, no mobs to aggro you. The room behind it, (with the cracked wall)--level 20-24-ish mobs, as always. Might have to watch your back for aggro when you went to click the cracked wall if you were still low enough to be at risk for these lower level mobs---same as it ever was. Behind the cracked wall... level 01-05 bats.

So, for lily tower, it is looking like you are only at risk from 80-ish mobs when running from point A to point B through the middle section of tunnels for missions/quests...but once you reach your destination, you are just as safe as you ever were. Looks like all you need is a means to keep sneak/inv up when you are running through those middle sections. So... lets check 3-mage gate, shall we?

Behind Cracked wall... Gee..this looks familiar..Willo-the -Wisp (23-25), Boggarts(22-25). Nothing new here.

Yep..so, those points in the OP are basically debunked now as well.

[Rosina]

im going to point out two things raist
first off I started in 2004.
second " As stated earlier, in the past you would have still gathered up a group to help you.": this was infact not the case at all. making headlines was a solo quest @ lvl 10-15.

I will also like to point out, I have no way to LOOK at said guides. But yes you are being a scrooge in my eyes. As for mog trails, these mobs already had high level counter parts before gov.

Lastly, it does matter of leveling guide was writen by a person who already has 1 99. They have gear and support jobs to back stuff up. A fresh player may not have said gear and will have a rougher time in said area.I also took a look at the updates, these changes were vaguely mentioned. as in "x zones would have mobs level adjusted."

Ur advice is great, but i wasn't seeking it. Please realise that. I do not like advice being pushed on to me w/o asking. I find it rather rude. Forcing you aid onto others w/o asking can be seen as belittling. (text limit)

[Rosina]

(text limit)
I have tried a few of these places out both past and present. Which I believe I told you. The aggro/link can become very nasty very quickly in the east saurabaruta towers. Giddeus (where i've been) is again tough to lvl in some spots due to the high risk of a massive link. Not helping low level gear is hard to get since low levels quests are now a bit hard to do so gil is scetchy in early lvls. Raist before you make any further comment start a character from the ground up w/o help in windurst region. Then offer me advice. I'll gladly accept it then. And by no help meaning no free gear from mules or free gil from main. Start fresh w/o assistence of any kind. Also do it solo. no book burning in gusgen. Again i'll accept ur advice. but atm your being a bit scrooge like. You just simply dislike my suggestion w/o real reason other then YOU find it pointless. (not a good reason btw...)

[Demon6324236]

As for mog trails, these mobs already had high level counter parts before gov.

Not all mobs are easy to get your hands on in the conditions mentioned. In fact alot of trials even now are a complete pain because they have mobs in areas that are extremely rare to get weather for. Examples being Antlion trials or a trial most BSTs do (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Trial_330) involving Bees and areas with very rare weather. The only problem with the higher level mobs is location, past that it really isn't a problem to anyone.

Slight note btw since I don't think it has been mentioned but the final limit break involves a stone you must get, it drops only from the GoV area high level mobs so far as I know, so they definitely serve at least some purpose.

[RAIST]

Not giving you advice...I'm countering your claims about high level mobs preventing one from participating in content. As I've demonstrated, at the points where it would be a problem, it is not. At points where there is a new problem, there is an easy remedy to avoid said problem.

And level 99 or not really has no bearing on a mobs stats....either they are good candidates based on their stats or not.

Also, I think you have a misunderstanding of what a Scrooge is. I'm not being mean, and I'm not being excessively miserly. I'm pointing out facts....even spent the time and gil to travel to these areas to test your claims. As usual, if I suspect someone is spreading misinformation or being a bit over the top on the exaggeration anaology to prove an absurd point...I will challenge it, look some things up, and present the counterpoint. In this case, you were providing some misinformation that needed to be brought into light.

[RAIST]

(text limit)
I have tried a few of these places out both past and present. Which I believe I told you. The aggro/link can become very nasty very quickly in the east saurabaruta towers. Giddeus (where i've been) is again tough to lvl in some spots due to the high risk of a massive link. Not helping low level gear is hard to get since low levels quests are now a bit hard to do so gil is scetchy in early lvls. Raist before you make any further comment start a character from the ground up w/o help in windurst region. Then offer me advice. I'll gladly accept it then. And by no help meaning no free gear from mules or free gil from main. Start fresh w/o assistence of any kind. Also do it solo. no book burning in gusgen. Again i'll accept ur advice. but atm your being a bit scrooge like. You just simply dislike my suggestion w/o real reason other then YOU find it pointless. (not a good reason btw...)

OK, now I'll give you some advice.....go somewhere else to level. There are lots of other places (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Field_Manual) to go close by (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Grounds_Tome) at your level, if you would just do some of the research. Those links above are virtual roadmaps for where you can level at in the new FFXI, if you'd just bother to take the time to review them.

It's not rocket science. In the past, it was not uncommon for people to find they couldn't handle Dunes very well and went back to thienne or highlands and leveled a little more.

[Rosina]

@ raist

by being scrooge like is you are countering my post for nothing more then a selfish reason that is you simply find it pointless. You have no other reason other then this. That is being selfish in a sence. And how can i be providing mis info when i have actually been into said areas with in the past few days. If you dislike the suggestion just please step away. And my suggestion effect no one here. I'm just asking for a change in windurst since this area has always been scetchy to level in. It took me weeks playing 2 hrs a day to get a good rythme down for lvling in this area. But that time i spent is now worthless and i have to retry, which i;m not having a fun time with.

Also your info is pointless as you did this stuff with a high level which you fully admited to. my highest is lvl 18. Instead of taking ur high level and trying to prove me wrong (which again is also a selfish thing) prove me wrong under the same conditions i'm at. level thf to 18 solo w/o sub then level war to 17 with /thf.

[Rosina]

ok raist i'm goin to say this nicely, this isn't an attack.

What you are doing is selfish and uncalled for. I am making a suggestion to SE to change back a few areas that did not to be made for high levels, which lessend the possible leveling spots for low levels in windurst. Which wasn't all that much from the get go. All i'm looking for is a change JUST windurst not all locations. All other ppl did was make comments in aggreement that some of these changes seemed silly.

What you see as "misinfo" is actually my personal experience. I have beenj all over west sarutabaruta/ east saurabaruta. and in most of the towers before and afte the gov change. Not all of the locations are good. Either mobs are too far apart, or mobs are too close together to the point where u got 3+ on you.

All you are doing is take ur highest level or main character which gear/merits/ various support jobs and trying this out. There is a huge difference between an established character and a fresh character.

[Rosina]

(text limit)
As for leveling guides.. i have tied them in the past w/o success. And i do mean before and after gov.. But currently i can't even access them. I told you this as well. You seem to be ignoring these obvious things simply by skimming my post.

honestly you are coming of pretty silly "i'm a high lvl i tried these with my character i;m right your wrong" << this is how ur posts seem.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong either, i'm not trying to prove anything. I;m just sharing my person experience and asking for a change if its possible to better said experience. What are you trying to gain by taking my personal experience and spitting on them with pointless chest puffing of ur well established character? Thats all i see coming from you. You do not need to prove me wrong if you dislike the suggestion. Just say what you dislike and end it there.

[RAIST]

@ raist

by being scrooge like is you are countering my post for nothing more then a selfish reason that is you simply find it pointless. You have no other reason other then this. That is being selfish in a sence. And how can i be providing mis info when i have actually been into said areas with in the past few days. If you dislike the suggestion just please step away. And my suggestion effect no one here. I'm just asking for a change in windurst since this area has always been scetchy to level in. It took me weeks playing 2 hrs a week to get a good rythme down for lvling in this area. Bit what time i spent is now worthless and i have to retry, which i;m not having a fun time with.

Also your info is pointless as you did this stuff with a high level which you fully admited to. my highest is lvl 18. Instead of taking ur high level and trying to prove me wrong (which again is also a selfish thing) prove me wrong under the same conditions i'm at. level thf to 18 solo w/o sub thenj level war to 17 with /thf.

OMG.... did you not even read the posts? I JUST walked through the same areas last night and this afternoon!!! Whether I was 99 or not is moot...I looked up the mobs on the freaking wiki's to see what their spawn levels were, or did that not dawn on you when I typed in the posts? I dind't just /check to see if they were Too Weak or not--I actually looked them up. And, if you had bothered to look at the links I provided, you would have seen all that information as well. You provided erroneous statements, such as these:

the north tower in west sarutabaruta is now 30+ spot

the underbelly of the west sarutabaruta tower dungeons is now 80-99. Doing the "making headlines" is now hard and this used to be a low lvl quest. The door is now guarded by mobs that are meant for lvl 80-99 plaayer

the three mage door area used in several quests and missions is not full of high lvl mobs. Getting rank missions done now has to be done via the "back way" from the rhinostery star beetle killing quest
Good Grief....go back and read the edits where I scoped out these very areas.

You aren't the only one with a lot of game time on these forums...sure, I haven't been here since 2004, but I followed it's progress, read up on it a lot before I started--I had already laid out a plan of action to start in Bastok on MNK and work my way through the startup quests to get some items/gil and level other jobs to test out which one I wanted to take up first. I did all that 6 or 7 years ago....when I had no subjob as well, and even when I did first unlock them sometimes I didn't have a proper subjob as I was experimenting to see how they behaved under different situations.

A level 1-6 worm or level 3-8 gob or bat can pose the same risk pretty much no matter where they are in the game (at some levels, some mobs may gain an extra TP move not available elswhere, but in general, this holds true). If we could handle the stray goblin at 15 in the dunes as a party, or at 35 in yuhtunga Jungle.... we could handle the same level mobs at that same level in other zones. Smacking bees in the gustabergs will present you with the same problems you run into in the Saras--provided the levels are the same for both player and monster.

So no, whether I researched this as a level 99, level 51, or level 15 doesn't matter--I'm looking at the actual stats on the mobs. I wasn't comparing them in the game--I'm looking at what was programmed in the game, vs. what levels they can potentially be killed at based on my (and others') experiences. The only thing I CAN'T compare is your playstyle and your equipment/job selection--I have no way to know just what you feel confident in handling, nor what you may be capable of killing, all I can do is point you in the direction of your options to make a decision.

That is up to YOU to determine what is best for your situation based on YOUR choices of how you are going to play. If you can't handle it, need to try something different--either different gear/food, team up, different job, or different area and/or mob, etc.. I've provided links to some lists where you can compare what your options are so you can evaulate your choices and adapt to how the game is designed now. It is totally manageble...you just have to be wiilling to progress along with the game. If you want to be stuck in 2006 or earlier....I guess the game has moved on without you.

[RAIST]

(text limit)
As for leveling guides.. i have tied them in the past w/o success. And i do mean before and after gov.. But currently i can't even access them. I told you this as well. You seem to be ignoring these obvious things simply by skimming my post.

honestly you are coming of pretty silly "i'm a high lvl i tried these with my character i;m right your wrong" << this is how ur posts seem.

is that "can't", or "won't"? you seem to be able to browse the web just fine.

[RAIST]

ok raist i'm goin to say this nicely, this isn't an attack.

What you are doing is selfish and uncalled for. I am making a suggestion to SE to change back a few areas that did not to be made for high levels, which lessend the possible leveling spots for low levels in windurst. Which wasn't all that much from the get go. All i'm looking for is a change JUST windurst not all locations. All other ppl did was make comments in aggreement that some of these changes seemed silly.

What you see as "misinfo" is actually my personal experience. I have beenj all over west sarutabaruta/ east saurabaruta. and in most of the towers before and afte the gov change. Not all of the locations are good. Either mobs are too far apart, or mobs are too close together to the point where u got 3+ on you.

All you are doing is take ur highest level or main character which gear/merits/ various support jobs and trying this out. There is a huge difference between an established character and a fresh character.

I'm being selfish...ok....that's a new one. Guess that's better than being called a troll. I thought you didn't engage in slinging insults and calling names? Seem to recall reading that somewhere....

And yes, SE did feel it was necessary to add high level mobs for the post 75 crowd...in fact, the players were asking for higher level mobs. They had to put them somewhere. They took care to try to re-arrange things to prevent it from locking out other content, and when they missed the mark on that in some areas, they made adjustments.

Again, if you would take the time to review the changes, you would see there are alternatives that WILL work, if you would just use them. If not, then there wouldn't be new/returning players coming in and leveling up to need help with GK's, rank runs, CoP/ZM/WotG, TAU, etc....there would be an entire legion of pre-20 Windurstians crying for help. This is NOT the case.

And yes, misinformation. As you clearly stated (and I quoted earlier) you were placing higher level mobs in areas where they were not placed to further advance your argument. If you are going to use such examples, you need to make sure they are accurate.

{Edit}
In case you don't see the that the facts don't support your claims, here is one of those things that neede correcting:

the underbelly of the west sarutabaruta tower dungeons is now 80-99. Doing the "making headlines" is now hard and this used to be a low lvl quest. The door is now guarded by mobs that are meant for lvl 80-99 plaayer
Here is what is actully there:

[Edit 3:]
Seems this is further much ado about nothing....did some more exploring. For Making Headlines, there is not real serious threat. Zoned into the tower....level 1-7 mobs there. When I entered the tunnels through the cracked wall, yes...there were 80-ish mobs, easily avoided with stealth tactics. Got back to the mahogany door....and it was an empty room (save for a grounds tome). That's right... no mobs to aggro you when you click the door. 80-ish bats in the tunnel leading to the room, but nothing in the room. Could click the door, and use the tome to repatriate (to avoid running back through) with NO THREAT OF AGGRO.

[Rosina]

is that "can't", or "won't"? you seem to be able to browse the web just fine.

my ps3 don't handle it well wiki and etc are laggy. I have tried

and being 99 and being there isn't moot infact thats the point i'm making ur a 99... of course your gonna be ok in this area. I had help on making headlines. My ex was a 90whm/blm (best gear and did gear swap) And he still died from a nasty link.

here is my current character mithra war level 17 sub thf. i have 4K gil in the level 10 scale set no accessories using a level 15 great sword (cheapest high dmg weapon i can find) my highest is 18 thf.

What you are doing is pointless, your basing every point on assumption and basing it off ur charactef which is well established. There is a hue difference between a newy made character and well established one. So it isn't moot point to discredit ur finding based on that. Since your experienment wasn't using the same type of character setting.

[Rosina]

being called selfish by what your doing isn't an insult so much as calling out on obvious attitude. I don't see too many ppl solo around my level eiher. i'm choosing to solo out of not finding book burn fun.

before you make another comment to prove me wrong... play @ my level.

1) start a fresh character in windust w/o any assistence such as gil from anyone ear from mules etc etc
2) solo thf to 18
3) after doing advance job solo to 17 as war

do this all in windurst. Only way you gonna prove ur claims right is to do it urself under my current situation. Not take an established character and say that is moot.

I can tell you only skim my posts, cuz 1/2 of what you ask is already explained. I read ur posts in full. And they do come off selfish. Since all you are doing is trying to counter my suggestion simply because u find it pointless. You aready admited to this. As for the north tower in west sarutabaruta.. it was a guess i didn't get a chance to fix it. But ty for fixing it for me. I appologise for that

[RAIST]

my ps3 don't handle it well wiki and etc are laggy. I have tried

and being 99 and being there isn't moot infact thats the point i'm making ur a 99... of course your gonna be ok in this area. I had help on making headlines. My ex was a 90whm/blm (best gear and did gear swap) And he still died from a nasty link.

here is my current character mithra war level 17 sub thf. i have 4K gil in the level 10 scale set no accessories using a level 15 great sword (cheapest high dmg weapon i can find) my highest is 18 thf.

What you are doing is pointless, your basing every point on assumption and basing it off ur charactef which is well established. There is a hue difference between a newy made character and well established one. So it isn't moot point to discredit ur finding based on that. Since your experienment wasn't using the same type of character setting.

If you can't browse it, then ask in your LS...the information is out there, and some may actually know it by heart.


My level doesn't matter...if they are mobs level 1-7 for me, they will check as level 1-7 to you. That is their actual level, it has NOTHING to do with my level. I wasn't going there to fight them, I was going there to see what was actually there. The SAME BOMBS AND BOGGARTS are at the 3-mage door as were there ages ago when I first went there. You claimed that area is now full of higher level mobs, which again...simply IS NOT TRUE.

Facts are facts...what you stated is false, or at the very least misleading. I'm not making assumptions...I'm looking at your words, and they are NOT in line with the truth. Others may read this without investigating and think you are right, when in fact you were WRONG. Can you just not accept that fact?

[RAIST]

being called selfish by what your doing isn't an insult so much as calling out on obvious attitude. I don't see too many ppl solo around my level eiher. i'm choosing to solo out of not finding book burn fun.

before you make another comment to prove me wrong... play @ my level.

1) start a fresh character in windust w/o any assistence such as gil from anyone ear from mules etc etc
2) solo thf to 18
3) after doing advance job solo to 17 as war

do this all in windurst. Only way you gonna prove ur claims right is to do it urself under my current situation. Not take an established character and say that is moot.

I can tell you only skim my posts, cuz 1/2 of what you ask is already explained. I read ur posts in full. And they do come off selfish. Since all you are doing is trying to counter my suggestion simply because u find it pointless. You aready admited to this. As for the north tower in west sarutabaruta.. it was a guess i didn't get a chance to fix it. But ty for fixing it for me. I appologise for that

Correcting misleading posts to prevent others from being mislead by misinformation is not being selfish.

I don't need to level a new character to know that one can technically level from 1 to 17 right outside Windhurst, it's clearly laid out in the wiki. If one wants faster xp, he/she can move out to nearby zones. It's all laid out nicely so one can map out their path all the way to 99 if they wanted to. We've already been taking new/returning players thorugh this very process. My main LS leader just unlocked subjobs for their son for the second time today. It's not just hyperbole, we've seen it in action.

[Rosina]

your level and character does matter... as does your reason for doing what ur doing. You reason is a selfish one. You can't do what ur trying to do under an estabished character since there is a huge difference. Try those leveling guides for windy solo as a newy made character w/o help then get back to me. But stop and think what you are actually doingb and for what purpose cuz honesty u are being rude. Ur taking my problem and my suggestion for a fix and spitting on it.

[Rosina]

Correcting misleading posts to prevent others from being mislead by misinformation is not being selfish.

I don't need to level a new character to know that one can technically level from 1 to 17 right outside Windhurst, it's clearly laid out in the wiki. If one wants faster xp, he/she can move out to nearby zones. It's all laid out nicely so one can map out their path all the way to 99 if they wanted to. We've already been taking new/returning players thorugh this very process. My main LS leader just unlocked subjobs for their son for the second time today. It's not just hyperbole, we've seen it in action.

ur not corecting/corrected anything other then 2 locations. but ur trying to insut my experience eveing under an estabished character. Thats what I feel is going on. But honest to god... its a effin suggestion no need to to what ur doing.. ur just being rude. Ur punishing me for some slight info which was infact guesses. if ppl in ur LS are not having a hard time thats

[RAIST]

As already stated, we've been doing this for other players....it has already be vetted by putting it in practice. I don't need to spend the extra money to prove a point that has already been proven time and time again. The fact that you are having difficulty doesn't mean everyone else is. I know that applies in reverse too, but either way, it is an issue bound to the individual more so than the game design. Something is different for those that are successful versus those that aren't--if they are using the same tools, then it comes down to the differences in choices made by those individuals.

The facts have been put out there, links provided, and suggestions have been made. If you can't accept that there is a better way to do it and prefer to hurl insults and try to dodge your responsibility for the mistakes/failings in both the forums and the game, that is your choice. The record stands as proof of the truth, and that is where I will leave it. Let others decide for themselves.

[Rosina]

not me, if no one else is having an issue thats them not me. I'm having an issue. I dislike a change, i'm asking not demaning said change. If u hate it.. don't post. But don't go out of ur way to stone the poster for the suggestion, more so for a petty reason as "i find it pointless". I sugest if you have a better reason to be against this chane that isn't a selfish one share it. If not stop posting. Cuz all i feel you sare doing is belitting me and trying to paint a bad picture about me. I have asked my LS to level with me they are busy with their own thing.

[RAIST]

ur not corecting/corrected anything other then 2 locations. but ur trying to insut my experience eveing under an estabished character. Thats what I feel is going on. But honest to god... its a effin suggestion no need to to what ur doing.. ur just being rude. Ur punishing me for some slight info which was infact guesses. if ppl in ur LS are not having a hard time thats

It was actually 3 locations from your OP, as well as Zeruhn Mines....just another correction again.

[Rosina]

I'm not even trying to point out insult to cover my tracks you proving it with each post ur doing. Instead of coming in here skiming my posts, stoning me for my experiences see for urself. You are helping those players. I'm not getting help. I have tried these suggestions... they didn't work. But my suggestion still stands.

simply put... get over urself.. ur doing nothing but attacking a poster for their suggestion. Nothing more....

[Rosina]

It was actually 3 locations from your OP, as well as Zeruhn Mines....just another correction again.

ok thank you... not really a mistake just forgot.. i'm just frustatred i neec to be treated in such a mannor just 1 suggestion. You and others like you need to step back and rethink how you post and come off in ur posts.

You and others like you do come off rude. You do seem selfish, petty, and pull the "i'm right ur wrong" on just about anything that don't fall into ur realm of assumption. Simply put, you assume to much. And using poor examples that prove nothing poutside of the fact to are just attacking a poster for a suggestion that you hate just for sake of hate. So SE don't do it and "prevent other content". If you do not like the sugestion either 1.. do not post. 2 say you do not think it is a good idea with a well thought out post outside of personal reasons.

I feel my suggestion is good and will be helpful to anyone who is new or returning.

[RAIST]

I'm not even trying to point out insult to cover my tracks you proving it with each post ur doing. Instead of coming in here skiming my posts, stoning me for my experiences see for urself. You are helping those players. I'm not getting help. I have tried these suggestions... they didn't work. But my suggestion still stands.

simply put... get over urself.. ur doing nothing but attacking a poster for their suggestion. Nothing more....

Oh no... it couldn't possibly be because some posts may have been misleading, and led to a misconception for some about how big a problem this may/may not be. Heaven forbid someone actually provides a different view based on what actually exists, and what can actually be done to adjust to the new layouts and such. Oh no....that's a direct attack on you.

Seriously....please take a close look at what has gone on in this thread before it gets locked and some posts possibly get edited. If I was really out to attack you, I would have chimed in 30-40 some-odd posts before I did. This was not about you, it was about the misconception that this is a problem that outright prevents people from participating in content.

If there was no remedy for the issue you feel so strongly about, then it would get mass support and SE might consider altering it. But as it stands now, it's been this way for a quite a while now, and it would appear a large number of players have adapted to the changes and moved on.

[RAIST]

ok thank you... not really a mistake just forgot.. i'm just frustatred i neec to be treated in such a mannor just 1 suggestion. You and others like you need to step back and rethink how you post and come off in ur posts.

You and others like you do come off rude. You do seem selfish, petty, and pull the "i'm right ur wrong" on just about anything that don't fall into ur realm of assumption. Simply put, you assume to much. And using poor examples that prove nothing poutside of the fact to are just attacking a poster for a suggestion that you hate just for sake of hate. So SE don't do it and "prevent other content". If you do not like the sugestion either 1.. do not post. 2 say you do not think it is a good idea with a well thought out post outside of personal reasons.

I feel my suggestion is good and will be helpful to anyone who is new or returning.



There you go again using that word... "assumption". I didn't make an assumption about your posts. When dealing with facts, either a statement is right or wrong, true or false---there isn't room for assumptions. That would make it more like an opinion--but when one states that something IS this way, and it IS NOT that way and someone corrects it, sometimes that is all it is. Perhaps you are the one making the assumptions?

For the record, you claimed I was making assumptions about you and attacking you...all I'm doing is defending those accusations.

[Infidi]

This is better then hobo fights . :D *Grabs some poppin' corn and vittles* On a more serious note I'm surprised this thread too hasn't been closed yet. Opinions are opinions but it becomes a cat fight when you draw it out.

[Rosina]

oi vey... your making comments based on assumptions. 1 that i have access to wiki. 2 that i'm not trying these out. 3 making comments stating my experience is false, sharing stories of ur Ls that may or may not be true. you're pretty much being condencending (sp). you find this suggest point less and you gonna do/ say anything to try and prove it with out consider any other point of view other then ur own. I did thank and consider advice and tips given. Also tried it and didn't work for me. But all the tips and advice don't do much against my suggestion. Still pretty much making excuses for bad design.

[cidbahamut]

oi vey... your making comments based on assumptions. 1 that i have access to wiki.
It's a reasonable assumption given that it's the 21st century and you're playing an MMORPG.

[Modoru]

because its a bit different... windower is a third party tool yes? And you can run add-ons through said tool yes? It's different between running an addon on with a game then having it intergrated in the actual games code work. SE know the code and frame work best. They know what limits they have. And it is their game, they have the final say. Being upset over the fact they can't do or do not want to do certain things is a tad silly. It is just a game. But please keep on topic... there is alreafy a conspiricy thoery thread. Post you concerns there not here.

The only way it's a "tool" is it injects a hook.dll that allows further scripting -- the game itself can allow these mechanics as is. It's not some sort of complete reverse-engineering of code that was discovered in order to exploit the game. Windower literally just simplified and added certain pieces of code that allow these plugins to work. SE could very easily implement them. Whether or not they'd want to is an entirely different story, but making these plugins work is actually in NO way impossible or 'different'. Do you actually know coding?

[Rosina]

The only way it's a "tool" is it injects a hook.dll that allows further scripting -- the game itself can allow these mechanics as is. It's not some sort of complete reverse-engineering of code that was discovered in order to exploit the game. Windower literally just simplified and added certain pieces of code that allow these plugins to work. SE could very easily implement them. Whether or not they'd want to is an entirely different story, but making these plugins work is actually in NO way impossible or 'different'. Do you actually know coding?

a tiny bit, enough to know there are limits

[Rosina]

It's a reasonable assumption given that it's the 21st century and you're playing an MMORPG.

no assumption is reasonable... to assume is to make comments out of ignorance. Should ask. But most his post are already invalid becease of the given reason. And if he is unwilling to step into my shoes... he shouldn't comment.

[Komori]

RAIST, you should just stop posting, she will never learn at this point.

All RAIST was trying to get across was that it is still very possible to do these quests if you don't try and just bombrush right through the zone and show patience.

The third Limit Break has always had this; running through the beastmen strongholds and one wrong move and you could be killed and have to start over. That's when people learned to watch monster movement and wait for openings to do things etc. To be honest it just seems like your impatient and only want your way with everything and if others don't agree with you or point out flaws in your suggestions then they're evil.

Which is a very child-like mentality that I normally only see in eight year olds and younger.

[katiekat]

Not only that but SE ignores us alot as well. We make ideas and suggestions, give feedback, and alot of the time we get told its impossible and cant be done for blah blah reason or its against their ideas/design.


i just hate seeing all this hatred and it seams like we have sertin posters that will post insults and DE-rail the topic just be because Rosina do i agre with her posts all the time no does she make good posts yes. and in sted of talking about them or moving on the topics tern in to a lets bash Rosina. i don't care if they think she dazervs it it makes us look petty in front of devs and people coming to the site for the first time.

[Demon6324236]

Oh I know, I have been trying to get people to shut up and stop fighting for awhile now, not workin to well sadly.

[Modoru]

Trust me, Rossina's been like this since last year.

[katiekat]

if she bugs players they shuld just ignore her its like a ls member bitching about this person in game that bugs them but when you say blist them they say no they have to see there messages for X reason.

i

[Xantavia]

RAIST, you should just stop posting, she will never learn at this point.

All RAIST was trying to get across was that it is still very possible to do these quests if you don't try and just bombrush right through the zone and show patience.

The third Limit Break has always had this; running through the beastmen strongholds and one wrong move and you could be killed and have to start over. That's when people learned to watch monster movement and wait for openings to do things etc. To be honest it just seems like your impatient and only want your way with everything and if others don't agree with you or point out flaws in your suggestions then they're evil.

Which is a very child-like mentality that I normally only see in eight year olds and younger.
So the mobs you would run across if you had a party of players lvl 59 would cause a total wipe if somebody got aggro? Or would you actually have a fighting chance, which some of these new mobs definitely would not give.

[Komori]

It's been many, many years since people did parties for limit breaks.

[Rosina]

@Komori

Thats not really what is going on and he was proving nothing. Only think he fixed which I was thankful for was my guesses @ lvl numbers. Which Due to having to type fast I missrepesented them as guesses and it seemed I was stating facts.

But I do not bum rush anything. I do take my time, i do watch mobs and with money/job pending i do try and use tools to help. What I was trying to get across was this change was not needed in the windurst section. I made a suggestion/ asked if it was possible. All raist is doing is going above and beyond trying to discredit me/ my suggestion because he feels it would be useless/pointless. I'm trying to make a point that leveling is suppose to ripple from town. Having high level mobs is low level areas seems silly to me. My experience leveling around windurst solo has been iffy. And really miss being able to do said quest and level in said location w/o a problem. There isn't be anything wrong with making this as a suggestion. If you dislike a suggestion..(limit)

[Rosina]

(limit)
then simply do not post in it. There was no reason or need to bash me and my suggestion into the ground. That is what I found rude. This suggestion effects no one because as far as I know, (feel free to politely correct me) weather effects do not appear in the towers. And most zones outside of the towers have bats and gobs in areas. Such as in Wings etc.

Also it is rude to take someones personal experience and say its wrong. People have a right to share a bad experience and make a suggestion about it.

[Rosina]

Trust me, Rossina's been like this since last year.

due to people harrasing just about everything I say, or how I type... pretty much whats going on now.

[RAIST]

Actually, Rosina... it had nothing to do with you.

The thread is simply predicated on misinformation, and thus did not accuratley reflect the situation and needed to be corrected.

It Didn't matter if it was you or Bullwinkle posting it---it NEEDED to be addressed and corrected, as it was misrepresenting the REAL scope of the problem---which really only boils down to 2 things: player choice on how to approach a challenge (whether that be a quest, mission, or levelling), and one's ability to maintain sneak and/or invisible to avoid detection from dangerous mobs.

I never even addressed you until you started challenging my posts in the 50's somewhere. It appears like you simply took offense at my posts because they are in conflict with your view, and chose to lash out instead of taking the information to heart and actually seeing what maybe/is wrong with some of the arguments (some points I addressed were actually pointed at others, and not you---but they did not feel the need to respond even remotely as emotionally as you). Others expressed different views than you, but you only chose to come at my posts with an intense fervor, when I was essentially exploring and revealing what was really going on in these areas as well as possible remedies so people can make an informed decision on whether they feel this really is a valid issue or not. If they went solely on what was previously being put forth, they may simply jump on board because they didn't know any better---but after seeing what is REALLY going on out there, they can make a more informed decision.

To clarify these are some things I looked into and brought forth, which was at times in direct conflict with what had previously been presented in the thread (and not all of it just from Rosina, by the way):

From the OP:

1) that is not a level 30+ area. First mobs I saw down there ranged from 10-14 and 15-18. Further in, I saw mobs level 12-15, 20-23, 23-26. The only catch is one might need to use stealth tactics to get past higher level mobs between some sections. This can be obtained from a variety of sources--including, but not limited to, Grounds Tomes if one has the tabs.

2) that section is not just a high level area, and not only is the door not guarded by high level mobs--there is nothing in that room but a book. Again, where one zones in...lower level mobs as always, only need stealth tactics to get past the higher level mobs that would aggro--nothing is at the objective to aggro the player. Nothing new there, again lots of ways to overcome the challenge of avoiding aggro when running through the middle section if one is prepared for it.

3) 3-Mage door area is NOT full of higher level mobs. The same level bombs/boggarts that have always been there are all that is hanging out in that section of the map--once one gets into that last hall, it is the same as it ever was. The only thing that has changed (again) is the need for stealth tactics to get through the section with the higher level mobs in between the first section (level10-18 mobs) and the 3-mage door...again, not a problem if one comes prepared. Thus, it is NOT necessary to run through Toromarai Canal (which still does contain the level 47-65 level mobs as well as the new higher ones, though it wasn't discussed yet) to get to the 3-Mage door room.


From other sections in the thread:

The section in Dangruff that was under question in fact has not changed at all--the same mobs are present as before, and the quest is still managed the same as it ever was--players are not in danger from the newer higher level mobs when running that quest. Those were added in sections north of where the quest takes place--the southern sections were virtually unchanged.

Zerhun Soot can still be farmed on the first level of the mines....from mobs ranging levels 1-3 right there where one zones in. There is no need to run down the tunnels and get aggro from the new high level mobs to complete that quest.

People do actually use some of these zones in question, at least at higher levels--as evidenced that level 90-ish players were seen actively fighting in a low man group down there--may have been for xp, skillups, farming--who knows, but it WAS being used by higher level players.

Upon further investigation, it was actually discovered that it is technically possible to integrate the FoV/GoV system to make it as high as level 50 without venturing any further than East/West Sarutabarutas, Inner/Outer Horutotos, or Giddeus--depending on one's choices on how to level (solo/party against EP to IT targets according to one's ability).

All this information is readily available not only via popular websites, but also within the game itself--one can review all the hunt lists at these books to adjust strategy as they go along.

With all the tweaks made to enhance experience points acquisition, it is really hard to say there is anything preventing one from gaining xp at a reasonable rate in readily accessible areas up to around level 30 (or higher, depending on where one is or chooses to go).

And for the record, this wall of text was posted simply because things were again being misrepresented.

[Rosina]

@ Raist... I thanked you for the fixes and said why it was mis info'ed. So please drop that part as you are a broken record at this point. Also You flat out admited this suggest its pointless. So it make a person consider that a why with some of ur posts. All i was trying to get across was the change wasn't needed in the first place. I wasn't lashing out. But you are over focusing on the "info" more then the actual suggestion. I'll fix my OP once i get a new key board. But this request is Far from pointless. But really dude ppl make mistakes no need to stone them for it. POLITELY correct them and move on not bash it in thier face.

[Komori]

RAIST is talking to you calmly, never once has he been purposely lashing out at you. He might be one of the only people on this forum who hasn't openly said what they think of you.

[Rosina]

RAIST is talking to you calmly, never once has he been purposely lashing out at you. He might be one of the only people on this forum who hasn't openly said what they think of you.

try again... How many times does a person NEED to address and correct something?? First off a simple reply saying there are mistakes not assume a person is wrong for sake of such. You to not need a wall of text to offer fixes to mistakes. Second You do not need to repeat it.... say it once and drop it. Lastly one shouldn't skim posts you build the wrong idea about ppl. Like most about ppl here do. I get stoned for near anything ever my own experience because ppl can't see past their own nose. They assume they are right 99 times out of 100. Ever since i started posting all i have gotten was harrassed... if its not my spells, its my point of view, or its about in game experience, or the fact i have no working pc. Heck i try to explain polity why i am the way i am so u guys can get to know me better.. i

[Rosina]

(tl) harrassed for that too. It shocks me i get the blame for a bad attitude when i'm the one having stones flying at me. I'm not really a bad person. But it don't help that a decent size group on here assume too much and can't think beyond what they assume is "normal". Not everyone has a means to log online to look up stuff. Not everyone comes on ffxi to solo everything, and not everyone who chooses to group for content is lazy.

Since the 3 zone book/ abby burn became the norm a good bit of the community did infact start becoming anti social. I rather solo/ duo then to see max level ppl act so snooty. That why I want this stuff reverted back so myself and like minded ppl have decent areas to solo around. Places we are actually used to. The tower in WS was epic to solo in from 5-13. No need to have changed it. The ruins with the door was also a great solo place for lower level while ur on said quest you can kill some mob for exp. now you can't even do that.

[sc4500]

(tl) harrassed for that too. It shocks me i get the blame for a bad attitude when i'm the one having stones flying at me. I'm not really a bad person. But it don't help that a decent size group on here assume too much and can't think beyond what they assume is "normal". Not everyone has a means to log online to look up stuff. Not everyone comes on ffxi to solo everything, and not everyone who chooses to group for content is lazy.

Since the 3 zone book/ abby burn became the norm a good bit of the community did infact start becoming anti social. I rather solo/ duo then to see max level ppl act so snooty. That why I want this stuff reverted back so myself and like minded ppl have decent areas to solo around. Places we are actually used to. The tower in WS was epic to solo in from 5-13. No need to have changed it. The ruins with the door was also a great solo place for lower level while ur on said quest you can kill some mob for exp. now you can't even do that.

I get where your you coming from, and I understand the issues you got with the quests and stuff having high lv mobs that can cause problems when doing the windy quests and a few of the other quests in the areas that got the high lv mobs, I had to help a few friends that were old players returning to the game, did some of those mission and quests, and at the time we thought it all sucked untill this brand new player help us, he like dudes i just googled the help and watch a youtube video on how to pass the parts. We never had that back in the old days lol, and we all felt pretty stupid.

As for the way we get experience points now days with the books and abyssea there nothing wrong with it even if you plow to lv99 in a week, better then what actually was slowly happening and the rest of the people were starting to catch on, summoner burns,mana burns,monk burns, the gil sellers burning all there jobs with a alliance in a far out spot, and with google and youtube the rest people finally caught on, so they came out with a system that was fair for everyone.

otherwise they would have to get rid of -ga spells,monks,summoners, and alliances to go back to the old way of parting, and yea a good part of the community did become anti social and that does sucks , but at same time alot of the community are on voice chat systems so that makes alot the text base stuff in the game seem anti social also.

As the game age so did the player base , now more people got college,jobs, kids, and other stuff to do and do not got time to spend one year to level a job up.

[Rosina]

it never took a year to lvl a job, and its even faster now with the exp increase. I used to play 2-4 hours a day. My ex worked a full time job. What ppl seem to not realise is a good % of the player base DID have jobs and families and still got it done. I started ffxi when I was 19. I'm 27 now. If i could get 18 in 2 weeks lvling in parties with only 2hr play time, back @ ps2 release, that should say something... exp was raised out side abby. I honestly see no difference between smn burn book burn and abby burn. Just an allience of ppl who milk exp off the ppl who do fight.

[Demon6324236]

You can(or should) fight in book parties, FC & SMNs you didn't or don't fight, not really the same.

[Zerich]

@Rosa: Getting to level 18 in 2-weeks actually used to be pretty slow if you had that type of playtime.

On-topic: How do you break something that isn't broken?

/closethread

[sc4500]

it never took a year to lvl a job, and its even faster now with the exp increase. I used to play 2-4 hours a day. My ex worked a full time job. What ppl seem to not realise is a good % of the player base DID have jobs and families and still got it done. I started ffxi when I was 19. I'm 27 now. If i could get 18 in 2 weeks lvling in parties with only 2hr play time, back @ ps2 release, that should say something... exp was raised out side abby. I honestly see no difference between smn burn book burn and abby burn. Just an allience of ppl who milk exp off the ppl who do fight.

no offense try and see how this games worked when you started out as a 27yr old. With a real job that supports a family, yea it sucks now now days that square grew up with the rest of the people to, im 36 years old and still playing this game for no reason , but you got a fair point. When your a teenager and start this game you will see your point of views and it different , then when you see it as a older person

[Rosina]

no offense try and see how this games worked when you started out as a 27yr old. With a real job that supports a family, yea it sucks now now days that square grew up with the rest of the people to, im 36 years old and still playing this game for no reason , but you got a fair point. When your a teenager and start this game you will see your point of views and it different , then when you see it as a older person

you not that much older then me, and my ex started @ 25. was working at a full time job, And helped his elderly parents out. The whole "have a life" is just an exuse for impatience. You what stuff now. Its an oline game to what you can and log off. I see no reason to rush any game. I said I only played 2hr a day to make a point that You always make progress reguardless of time online. The only one stoping u from getting stuff done is urself. Just do what u can with the time you have. Plan ahead as well.

[Rosina]

@Rosa: Getting to level 18 in 2-weeks actually used to be pretty slow if you had that type of playtime.

On-topic: How do you break something that isn't broken?

/closethread

not saying it was fast, saying it was progress. Progress is progress. Speed shouldn't factor if its just a game. Only impatient ppl care for the "right now" factor. Also none of said areas was broken pre gov, why fix them?

[Rosina]

Hello I re wrote my OP in hopes to better get across what I wanted to say. Please leave the flames and insults at the door. :) Thank you.

[RAIST]

Hello everyone (again)
I'm rewiting my OP to fix errors places and to better type out what I'm asking. Thanks to raist I got more info then I knew my level, ranges were guesses. So my appologies on that.

What I would like, if it's possible. For SE to change the towers and underbelly baxk to their original level ranges. I was happy, (and suggested)GoV to be placed as I like having a "reason" to kill mobs. To me mindlessly killing animals doesn't seem heroic. I'm not actually new to this change. I was playing when it was added. The reason I'm dislike this change now, is I never felt effected by it and I tried to give it a chance. I tried the book burn/abby burn thing and personally dislike it. So i'm asking for THIS level change, to give me and playes like me more options at low level to level up at. I'm only asking for the windurst towers to be changed back.

Leveling out in west and east sarutabaruta can be boring a tedious as most of the low level field zones have mobs to few and far apart.

If they made this change, they would likely feel compelled to revert the other starter areas as well--that may lead to some backlash from the players that are using those areas, so I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

As for hanging out in just the Saras, there is the other option of working your way towards the dunes like they always did in the past---you don't HAVE to stay there.

You also can still move into those areas neighboring Windurst as well, as there are sections of those zones that still contain the lower and intermedieary level mobs, they just may have been relocated slightly in some sections, or you may need to use stealth tactics to bypass higher level mobs in some sections to get to them. Either way, there are still mobs readily accessible in the ruins to use for getting from ~7 up through ~30....just might have to look for them is all. So, if SE were to review these areas, they may decide not to revert them....at best, they might move some mobs around, or make the 70+ ones non aggressive like they've done in other zones.

[cidbahamut]

I think the "I need a viable place to level" complaint is a lot less important than the one to be made about new player retention when they wander into level 80+ mobs in a starter zone. That sort of thing tends to put people off, and with a game this old you need to hold onto all the new blood that bothers to even check the game out.

[Rosina]

I think the "I need a viable place to level" complaint is a lot less important than the one to be made about new player retention when they wander into level 80+ mobs in a starter zone. That sort of thing tends to put people off, and with a game this old you need to hold onto all the new blood that bothers to even check the game out.

it was hat i could fit in a signle post.. or I would have rewritten that part. But i get told off for "double" posting.... well i get told off for even typing anything on here. ~.~

Honestly you guys really fail to see how hurtful you guys are in reality. If i had the tools my typing would be tons better. I don't. And i get hate for that, that is pretty effed up. And thats what I've been trying to get across.

[cidbahamut]

it was hat i could fit in a signle post.. or I would have rewritten that part. But i get told off for "double" posting.... well i get told off for even typing anything on here. ~.~

Honestly you guys really fail to see how hurtful you guys are in reality. If i had the tools my typing would be tons better. I don't. And i get hate for that, that is pretty effed up. And thats what I've been trying to get across.

What in the world are you talking about and why did you quote me?

[Infidi]

it was hat i could fit in a signle post.. or I would have rewritten that part. But i get told off for "double" posting.... well i get told off for even typing anything on here. ~.~

Honestly you guys really fail to see how hurtful you guys are in reality. If i had the tools my typing would be tons better. I don't. And i get hate for that, that is pretty effed up. And thats what I've been trying to get across.
Just curious do you type with keyboard or the controller? ^^ Not bashing or anything just wanting to know, 'cause some people don't know you can use a USB keyboard on the PS3 to type with. :) Might make easier to type with. ^^

[RAIST]

I think the "I need a viable place to level" complaint is a lot less important than the one to be made about new player retention when they wander into level 80+ mobs in a starter zone. That sort of thing tends to put people off, and with a game this old you need to hold onto all the new blood that bothers to even check the game out.

True, but you also need to keep in mind that these higher mobs are deeper into these zones. Particularly in the zones in question here, you would not hit these mobs until you were done with level 14-18 mobs (some possible lower/higher in other zones). You don't just zone in and have a level 89 Scorpion biting your head off--you have to work your way past several camps representing the more normal level monsters that have always been in those zones first.

Also, at some point, you would be breaking off to do subjob quest--which means breaking off towards Mauhra or Dunes, then eventually Jueno for Chocobo, Rank, Khazaam, Airship, etc. The game has always been setup with that natural progression to hit harder level mobs as you go into zones further away from the starter nations, working your way towards Jueno....and yes, it is just that, a natural progression of sorts. Because of this pattern, this became the "norm" for people to follow: level up to around 10 closer to home, upgrade gears, and venture out into the world.

In other words, there are established paths that players have always taken. If they were to follow those paths, they may likely never go past that cracked wall or hop up the geyser to the upper level of Dangruf and continue up into the 80+ mobs there unless they were wandering around aimlessly out of curiousity (which is always dangerous), or doing a quest/mission that requires them to go there (in which case, they would have received advance notice of the threat had they researched things, and should have come prepared)--otherwise they should only be going there intending to fight those higher level mobs. It's all out there for anyone to review, and if they have no means to view that info there are plenty of people in game that could give them a heads up if they asked in LS or something (unless, there is somehow an LS full of people with no knowledge of the game or sites with the information).

Thus, the people who are running into issues with these mobs are more likely to be ones that either are unaware of what they are getting into because they didn't read up on anything and are just exploring without a clue (and if they don't learn the first time they make that mistake....well, that becomes more a personal problem), or are fully aware of the threat but are still choosing to go there anyway without taking proper precautions, even though a safer, reasonable path has been laid out before them (again, this is more a personal problem---a problem of personal choice).

[cidbahamut]

That is quite a lot of text for what amounts to "/handwave".

At the end of the day there is a very simple reality:
New players are going to encounter these mobs, have absolutely no chance at all and that's going to discourage people from continuing to play.

[RAIST]

That is quite a lot of text for what amounts to "/handwave".

At the end of the day there is a very simple reality:
New players are going to encounter these mobs, have absolutely no chance at all and that's going to discourage people from continuing to play.

The same could be said for a low level running into Ranguemont Pass in 2008 and trying to run to the glacier without a clue for the first time. So, did that mean they needed to adjust that entire zone for level 15 players?

How about a level 21 player that just completed their Chocobo Quest and wanted to check out the Necro and died right away? Did that mean they needed to drop that zone to level 20?

And before you declare irrelevance....think about why one would go there for the first time in the past. It would be for accomplishng specific goals...ones that would be researched, you would make sure you are prepared properly for them.

And if you found you weren't properly prepared, one would investigate as to why and <hopefully> learn from their mistakes.

[cidbahamut]

This is not rocket science. You put low level mobs in low level zones and high level mobs in high level zones.

[RAIST]

Well, there wasn't much choice for the post 75 crowd--either they completely revamp entire zones to be JUST for the post 75 crowd, or they spread them out. What they opted to do was to add them in sections deeper into the zones, thus they can still be used for lower levels as always, and the post 75 players that want to take advantage of kupowers, FoV/GoV, or for whatever reason don't want to be in Abyssea during the 1.4Milliion XP they need to get from 75 to 99. Otherwise, you would be penalizing people for advancing further in content by restricting them to just one event for leveling/skilling.

So, you are all for punishing people who are now actively using these zones for what? Keep in mind, these zones were actually pretty thin for NEW PLAYERS to XP in--outside of experienced players that went back there for farming, quests/missions, or low level skilling, they weren't being used for much previously.

[Edit:]
Also, remember that this whole thread was initially started because the OP had trouble leveling in there---and it WASN'T because of the newer mobs. It was revealed that the issues were with pre-20 level mobs, that have always been there. The only valid argument initially made was that there was an issue with needing to use stealth tactics to get past level 80+ mobs for missions/quests when one was below level 20---irregardless of the fact that there were mobs already there that would have required the same stealth tactics to be used in the past.

[cidbahamut]

So, you are all for punishing people who are now actively using these zones for what?
New player retention and the long term health of the game.

[RAIST]

you have yet to explain how it is different now then it was before.

Before, a low level player had easy access to any number of zones where they could get their face eaten if they wandered around aimlessly. This is no different now then than.

And, adding the high level mobs to these zones did NOT make them high level zones. They are now both--half is for low level, half for high level. You enter in and see low levels, they get higher as you go in. The only thing different is that at some point, there is a definate break. And in many cases, there is a signifigant break in the landscape you have to traverse to gain access the higher level sections.

[cidbahamut]

you have yet to explain how it is different now then it was before.
I've already explained it in very succinct terms.

You are now intentionally ignoring my point for the sake of continuing to argue.

[RAIST]

I've already explained it in very succinct terms.

You are now intentionally ignoring my point for the sake of continuing to argue.

You have ignored my points....completely glossed over a long list (That is quite a lot of text for what amounts to "/handwave".) of them with this post (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/25678-Windurst-region-fix.?p=346149&viewfull=1#post346149):

That is quite a lot of text for what amounts to "/handwave".

At the end of the day there is a very simple reality:
New players are going to encounter these mobs, have absolutely no chance at all and that's going to discourage people from continuing to play.
Where did you specifically address my question of how it is different? All you've done is said that a low level player running into a level 80 mob and getting killed instantly would discourage further play. I challenged that with examples that have ALWAYS existed in this game---there have always been countless situations for a low level to wander up against a monster too high for them to stand a chance to kill it.

A level 1-5 player can get their face eaten by any number of mobs right outside Windy that run up to level 8.

So, by your reasoning, this has ALWAYS been a problem.... so what specifically makes it so harsh as to be a problem now?

I've already gone through and detailed how a NEW player should typically be looking to shift gears and leave the Windurst Region to unlock subjobs....have to leave the home nation regions to do that. They should hit that point BEFORE they would logically have any need to go near those high level mobs for something outside of trying to do a quest/mission, in which case they should have done some research that would have made them aware of the threat, as well as a remedy. If they didn't do the research and it causes them to get killed, then they should inquire as to why they failed, find out how to manage it, and complete the objective---by using the same tactics that they would have had to use 6 years ago.

So, again I ask you...just how is it so different now for a low level new player to get discouraged from playing because they got killed by wandering too close to a mob that was too high a level for them?

[Edit:]
And here's another thought to ponder....regarding "high level area" and "low level area". How does a new player determine an appropriate zone to level in? Are they looking them up on a Wiki? If so, they should clearly see that there is a potential threat, and be on the lookout for them (ie: see Troika bats or Deathwatch beetles, and they know not to go down that tunnel). If they are just wandering around aimlessly pulling stuff...eventually, they ARE going to find something that obviously outclasses them....and they should quickly learn to avoid that target.

[Spiritreaver]

Just curious do you type with keyboard or the controller? ^^ Not bashing or anything just wanting to know, 'cause some people don't know you can use a USB keyboard on the PS3 to type with. :) Might make easier to type with. ^^

Playing FFXI has always required a keyboard on PS2 and later PS3. I don't get the point being made there either.

[Demon6324236]

Think of it this way, most areas gradually move up in levels as you move through them. Like with Inner Horutoto Ruins, the cards start at 2~3 and end up in the 8~9s, level wise its a start of lv4~5 ending in the upper 40s but they move up as you go. The GoV mobs are not as gentle, they go from level 10 mobs, to level 85 mobs, by simply moving behind a simple door. I am under the idea that if your playing Final Fantasy, part of what you do is explore, going behind a door to see whats on the other side is expected, however... finding something that is 8 times the level of what you were just fighting and yourself, isn't so expected.

[Rosina]

Just curious do you type with keyboard or the controller? ^^ Not bashing or anything just wanting to know, 'cause some people don't know you can use a USB keyboard on the PS3 to type with. :) Might make easier to type with. ^^

usb keyboard but the way the ps3 runs inorder to type, a window pop up with a text space and keypad. This window comes up even if you use a usb keyboard. I can't type directly on the site.

[Rosina]

What in the world are you talking about and why did you quote me?

umm I was replying to you. >.>;; I simplely was trying to fix my errors with a retype and would have added the part you said was better. So both would be present.

[cidbahamut]

umm I was replying to you. >.>;; I simplely was trying to fix my errors with a retype and would have added the part you said was better. So both would be present.

You could have fooled me. It didn't seem related at all, but that may have been because it was almost completely incomprehensible. Heck, I can barely figure out what you're trying to say in the post I'm quoting.

[Rosina]

Cid
Raist already made is point of why he posts.

His point of view summed up is "this change is a waste of time" Thats it. All his posting can sum up that he simply does not "get it" he can't see past his own nose.

Before: a player in windurst had little to no trouble finding sweett spots to level in, geting low level fame quests done. Now, a few quest need high level assistence. He refuses to see a difference because he started late in the game. He is from the "net" generation where info was online.

Windurst is a nation nearly completely cut off from the "typical" ffxi path people layed out. Most of the ffxi player base on garuda was sandy then bastok, then windurst. Infact Sandy had the sarutabaruta region when i logged on.

See as a windurst player you had to expernt with leveling due to design of the zones, the type of mobs that spawned, and the spread of the mobs. Windirst areas are some of the most open and bigger zones in game. Sandy had forest bastok had 2 large hills so mobs around these

[Rosina]

areas. Windy USED TO have the ruins and the underbelly for the better leveling. Plus ALOT of quests took place with in these areas. As a new/ returning player picky windy. You pretty much NOW have a limited play area to pick from. You pretty much level in east sarutabaruta then canyon (which sucks cuz 10-14 u can get lost easy in that pass) then try to level in the pennisula which has the worst lay out the the low level section.

As a player you wante best kill/rest ratio. In windy you run around most looking for said page mobs then you do killing them. What I used to do was level around west sarutabaruta then @ 5, I would go to the tower located north of Giddeus. The was a large square room with you smaller rooms on the left and right side. Mobs were spread out enough for quick kills, but not enough to gang bang you. And you can rest on the platforms w/o too much aggro.

After that I would then make my way to valkrum dunes. Now that has changed. And i dislike it.

[Rosina]

A new player will not like seeing a open zone fo from level 5 to level 80. in 1 door way, infact that is a HUGE complain in ffxiv. Zone level ranges are all over the place. That isn't how rpg or mmorog are run. That does confuse a player. I'[ve had returning players feel it was retarded. And here is the kicker, WHY was it changed? There was no reason. To my understanding no weather takes place in the ruins. So trials are pointless. No high level would want to go to windy to level, so that is out. I personally from 04-2012 have never seen a ton of ppl use these areas.

I'm not even demanding it get changed, If people do use these areas I can see, but i personally do. I'm also voicing my opinion on a chamge that 1) was never made mention from the player base. 2) never was needed in the first place.

Honesy raist, you nd this change useless, why post. Stop trying to force correct ppl with false notions.

[Rosina]

You could have fooled me. It didn't seem related at all, but that may have been because it was almost completely incomprehensible. Heck, I can barely figure out what you're trying to say in the post I'm quoting.

ok. Let me just type out in simple sentences.
I wanted to reply you, to say, that I could not fit everything I wanted to type.
If i could have fit everything, I would have added the part you pointed out.

Is that easier to read? (i'm not being snarky, I'm asking because I'm trying to work on typing.)

[Rosina]

ok, let me make something a bit clearer. It isn't so much my typing sucks, but how my thoughts come across. I have a hard time taking my thoughts and putting them out there. Whether through type, or though physical writing.

I have to section my thought out in a single sentence bullet points, and try to make it readable. This is how my mind works, and how I've learned to cope with it. My thoughts race faster then i can type, so my typing finger goes a mile a mintue just to keep up. That is why I simply said I had ADD, because that is a "tic" of it. And since I figured that ppl have it, it would have been a simple "oh, ok" but ya, that Never happen.

Ps this was with or with meds, always something i had an issue with. In irony, i can type/wrote poetry no issue. So i may just need to write in my poetic style so it easier to read. And not saying it as an excuse, just explaing why it may be hard to read but I am trying to do better.

[cidbahamut]

ok. Let me just type out in simple sentences.
I wanted to reply you, to say, that I could not fit everything I wanted to type.
If i could have fit everything, I would have added the part you pointed out.

Is that easier to read? (i'm not being snarky, I'm asking because I'm trying to work on typing.)
Yes, that is easier to read. It's direct and to the point. Kudos on taking time to clean up your spelling/grammar as well. It's very much appreciated and makes reading your posts much easier to read.

[Rosina]

I do not know whatever it is you're trying to say, but I'm sure you're probably wrong anyhow.

this is by far the most unessicary thing to do on here. Please be adult and NOT do this.

[Rosina]

Yes, that is easier to read. It's direct and to the point. Kudos on taking time to clean up your spelling/grammar as well. It's very much appreciated and makes reading your posts much easier to read.

Ok, so type it like i do my poerty. Got it.

[RAIST]

Think of it this way, most areas gradually move up in levels as you move through them. Like with Inner Horutoto Ruins, the cards start at 2~3 and end up in the 8~9s, level wise its a start of lv4~5 ending in the upper 40s but they move up as you go. The GoV mobs are not as gentle, they go from level 10 mobs, to level 85 mobs, by simply moving behind a simple door. I am under the idea that if your playing Final Fantasy, part of what you do is explore, going behind a door to see whats on the other side is expected, however... finding something that is 8 times the level of what you were just fighting and yourself, isn't so expected.

That seems a reasonable point at face value...but if you are doing the research you would be aware of the threat and if you are going through a process of trial and error to learn your way around, you would quickly learn that that section of the map is not good for you right now, just like you might just as easily stumble into a nasty situarion in Giddeus and die and learn not to go in there just yet. The fundamental principles are still the same---either you know in advance, or you learn by trial and error.

Besides, that isn't the argument that was being made. The argument being put forth was that a new low level player would rage quit because they ran into a mob they could not handle. This type of scenario could play out for that type of player at any time from level 1 to 75 in the past, depending on where they explored aimlessly and at what job/level they are against the mobs they came across--that still applies just as well from level 1-99 now. So, it is a bit weak of an excuse.

Even so....they should learn from the mistake, and try something different. There are other paths that can be taken. The issue of making this change needs to have the pros and cons weighed. As it stands now, people from Windurst have obviously been finding ways to level, as evidence by the new players coming up through Genkais and such needing help at the higher levels. Each time I've searched the areas, I have always found level 90+ peoplle using the areas, but rarely find lower level players there in comparison. I'm sure this varies from server to server, but it is one of the things SE would likely want to analyze if they were to consider this concern....who stands to win/lose, and to what degree. What is wrong with bringing these points into light?

At present, it would appear (from what I've seen) it would penalize higher level players by denying them access to specific game mechanics for that region, while providing a minimal gain for the lower level players. On both sides of the equation, low level players can now and still could seek alternative camps currently close by, while higher level players would no longer have any options in that region. Lower level players still currently have a much wider range of areas to choose from than higher level players do by comparison when it comes to taking advantage of specific game mechanics in these older regions. That is an important point to be considered, and likely one of the driving points behind them making the changes in the first place---players were asking SE to make these older regions useful for higher level players, they did, and players appear to be using the new options added.

As for the point about the xp path laid out for players....I have seen this evolving gradually since WotG came out, and there really isn't a set path to follow, never really was--there was simply popular paths, but those have shifted over the years as the game has evolved with new features/options at one's disposal now. At various points, several directions open for players....it is the player's choice in which way they go. Before, yes...they may have had more variety in certain areas, and those may have been reduced for those areas--but that deoesn't meen they are out of options. They in fact still have numerous options available to them. They are not locked into JUST that one alternative path that pushed them to the Canyon, that is just one fairly obvious route. Rosina herself just brought up Amaryllis tower again:

What I used to do was level around west sarutabaruta then @ 5, I would go to the tower located north of Giddeus. The was a large square room with you smaller rooms on the left and right side. Mobs were spread out enough for quick kills, but not enough to gang bang you. And you can rest on the platforms w/o too much aggro.

That tower is still usable for lower levels in much the same fashion, it just may be laid out a bit differently now is all (I can't recall just how it was laid out 4-7 years ago, but I DID explore it earlier in this thread and found that the section she referenced is currently NOT full of 80+ mobs, but rather varying clumps of mobs bracketted from level 10 through 18. If the mobs were lower in the past, than that is a change that one needs to work around by going somewhere else for the levels the may have gone there in the past. The trick is to investigate a bit to discover how it has altered....perhaps it is simply a matter of going into a different tower now? I found one such section that had mobs up to level 7, and ther are targets in the Saras that go to level 10...just saying, there are options available for the levels that have been put into question in the thread that do not put players in such dire jeopardy as is being portrayed here.

The point that keeps getting overlooked time and time again, is that when SE made this change (made in part because they were lobbied to do something to bring players back to the older regions), they were careful to try to section them off and also made adjustments to preserve options for the lower level players. They didn't simply convert an entire zone to an elite campground and shut out the lower levels....they tried to keep things balanced.

One can argue how well they did/didn't balance it....but you can't say they completely shut out lower level players from having a viable path for leveling. What appears to be goin on here is more that there are those that either are not aware of the options (for whatever reason), or are aware but are refusing to branch out into the new direction the game has taken and are clinging on to times past that are simply are no more. Either way, this should foster a spirit of exploration/experimentation to find one's way, just the same as we all had to do in the past. Sure....some will make mistakes, sometimes fail miserably....but they should be learning from those mistakes and move on. What appears to be happening here, is some are falling into the rutt of trying to teach and old dog new tricks. That is quite frankly, more of a personal issue than a game design issue.

[RAIST]

Cid
Raist already made is point of why he posts.

His point of view summed up is "this change is a waste of time" Thats it. All his posting can sum up that he simply does not "get it" he can't see past his own nose.

Before: a player in windurst had little to no trouble finding sweett spots to level in, geting low level fame quests done. Now, a few quest need high level assistence. He refuses to see a difference because he started late in the game. He is from the "net" generation where info was online.

Windurst is a nation nearly completely cut off from the "typical" ffxi path people layed out. Most of the ffxi player base on garuda was sandy then bastok, then windurst. Infact Sandy had the sarutabaruta region when i logged on.

See as a windurst player you had to expernt with leveling due to design of the zones, the type of mobs that spawned, and the spread of the mobs. Windirst areas are some of the most open and bigger zones in game. Sandy had forest bastok had 2 large hills so mobs around these

Actually, Rosina, I never said it was a waste of time. What I actually said (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/25678-Windurst-region-fix.?p=341175&viewfull=1#post341175)was:

Quite simply, the changes are not needed, and will drastically upset the structure of what the game has evolved into. You might want to take some time to review the FOV/GOV lists for those zones. They are laid out quite well to get you leveled up in a very streamlined fasion, especially with the double xp tweak.
If you are going to try to appear to quote someone, it's best if you actually quote them. If you were trying to paraphrase, need to make sure you give an accurate representation of what was actully stated. Otherwise, be prepared for rebuttal.

The Net Generation? If I remember correctly, I am considerably older than you and pre-date the Net Generation (I remember when TSR-80's and Apple IIe's were in schools, system/36, i386, the fanfare over i486 and later Pentium 90's), and I followed the game from early on....read printed guides in the BAM stores and had notes laid out for how I was going to get started and all long before I even bought the game. I was simply holding out for it to become cheaper to play (which, unfortunately never happened).Don't know where you're drawing the assumption that I'm from the Net Generation.

And, from what I've seen going on, apparently Windy citizens are not running into a lot of trouble finding ways to level, perhaps they are simply doing something different than you, IDK.

That quest in question does not require higher level help. That's just one of the easy tactics that can be deployed, just like people may have opted for in the past. There are alternative ways to get sneak/inv applied so you can progress through that dangerous section....restated because it doesn't seem to be sticking.

Nations continually take over rival nation's areas, so not sure just what you're getting at there...but Windy has never been cut off from a traditional leveling path. Each nation had and still has it's own popular paths....Bastokans didn't simply run to Sandy to level and such because that was THE path to take. People from Bastok and Sandy still experimented and find their way just the same as players from Windy. If Windy's was so terrible, more people might have switched because of it...some may have changed nations over frustration with Windy (not necessarily levelling), but many stayed for various reasons. There are other reasons people might chose a starting nation outside of how they were going to level, the grind was more or less just an accepted evil in the game regardless of where you were from.

[RAIST]

And here is the kicker, WHY was it changed? There was no reason. To my understanding no weather takes place in the ruins. So trials are pointless. No high level would want to go to windy to level, so that is out. I personally from 04-2012 have never seen a ton of ppl use these areas.

I'm not even demanding it get changed, If people do use these areas I can see, but i personally do. I'm also voicing my opinion on a chamge that 1) was never made mention from the player base. 2) never was needed in the first place.

Honesy raist, you nd this change useless, why post. Stop trying to force correct ppl with false notions.

Some theories on why they made the change have been stated in various posts by several people in the thread already.

Not all trials require weather to be present. People may have specific reasons for choosing a certain target/zone for a trial. For instance, I choose some certain beetles for a Vermin Trial because it allowed me to skillup some crafts off their drops.

I have seen higher level players in the ruins...and levelling is not the only reason people go to a zone.

If you've never seen a lot of people using these zones over 8 years....then why are you so vehemently lobbying for them to change them back? If no one is using them, why does it matter? This statement alone so greatly undermines this thread.....

Actually, the concept of a training area/event was brought forward by players and discussed in length on various forums. There was also a lot of chatter about making the old zones usable again, and requests for more options for post 75 for various reasons, amongst them skillups. SE may have done this in part to knock out several birds with one stone.

I never stated that it was pointless to change things. In the scope of the challenges presented, I said it wasn't needed with various clarifications, among them: adjustments have been made to offset issues created by the change (granted, it may still need some tweaking in some spots), it does not prevent access to content as was being presented, and changing it would disrupt access to key elements in the game that actually are being used now that the game has evolved past 75 cap.

If you have every right to express your opinion, so do I. You just seem to feel it was an unecessary change, others disagree. You feel it would be better for them to change it back, others disagree. Others here have been in opposition of you in this thread, yet you've just chosen to continually lash out at me and not them for some reason, and it is often so out there that it calls for a rebuttal/correction. That's just how things work in a point/counterpoint discussion. Guess I'm just the first one to actually try to verify the claims, and that rubbed you the wrong way, IDK....but it is getting a little old. Yo don't like when people go after you personally, so we do you insist on doing so to me when I have not?

I'm not trying to "force correct" anyone with "false notions". I've corrected misinformation, and just happened to put forth an opposing point of view that for some reason just jazzes you up. If you have the right to post information as facts whether you have vetted the information, I have every right to actually look into them and correct the record where fault is found. Facts are facts, it's either right or wrong by definition. Stating the truth after something was assumed in error is not "force correcting" someone....it is simply a correction. If you then insist on challenging the correction that has been sourced or actually checked on in game...be prepared for further rebuttal. That is not cramming it down your throat...that is a response to your challenge. If you don't like being corrected like that...might want to make sure you have the facts right in the first place.

TLDR:
A lot of things you keep bringing up have been gone over in the thread already, sometimes repeatedly--they keep coming back, because you either keep bringing it up or are misrepresenting things. IDK if some key things just are not getting through to you somehow, or you just aren't reading some posts thoroughly....but a LOT of this back and forth could have been avoided if you would have just accepted the basic truths that you did not give a clear and fair presentation of the facts, and there are people here that have just as strong an opinion on the topic as you, but just happen to have a different view on the topic than you. If you are going to be so openly opinionated and not double check your claims/posts, be prepared for opposition/correction. Don't challenge those corrections if you don't have the facts to support said challenge, or be prepared for a rebuttal. Every time a post is made in opposition to one of your posts is NOT a personal attack on you, sometimes it is just a challenge/correction of the elements presented in your post....so please, stop with the personal attacks against those that have not been attacking you personally.

[Rosina]

Raist you infact have stated that you see this as a pointless suggestion. And continue you "find" evidence to baxk it up. I know not all trial require weather. But point blank mobs found in ruins dotted around windurst are also located in other regions, so you would not need the ruins.

Also the mobs in the tower north of Giddeus pre change was solo-able from 5-13. Also Raist by net generation, i didn't mean age, I meant playing on ffxi. When I started we just played the game, did trial and error. We didn't do the "look on wiki" stuff.

Also Raist, you don't need to constently correct people when you CLEARLY "don't get it". You started ffxi later then I did. So you are not really in the know. You only know what wiki taught you. Which hate to say, in some cases have proven false.

Wiki is user created, so cases of inaccurate data will happen. It also can be freely changed by anyone with an account. So realistically anyone can write anything and state it as fact.

[Rosina]

Also raist, since you seem to not read my post at all cept what you FEEL are inaccurate statements. You would be surprised to know that the quests in question NEVER needed assistence from anything. And there is something you forget, you need tabs inorder to put book sneak/invis. Did you ever thing or grasp that a person may not have tabs?

You are not grasping any concept then what wiki or the norm tells you. That is what I'm trying to get across to you. You shouldn't assume anything. Not everyone follows wiki/ the norm like a net gen zombie.

I personally perfer more free form play instead of going by the apparent ffxi bible. To really share an opinion about this though. You would have to physically experience it for yourself. You shouldn't comment on what you assume you see. I never had an issue leveling around windy before. Now i am. Its not really the difficaulty. It is on the fact that I'm running more then killing. Which for me gets dull fast. Mobs in the zones are too spread out.

[Rosina]

I never stated any reply here was a personal attack outside the one triss made. But what i find a bit pathetic, is you feel that i have no "good enough" reason to suggest this. I think that is a rude statement.
Honestly, by your stance, no reason no matter how well thought out would ever be good enough for you. And really, why defend the mob level increase in what was low-mid level areas? Is it not the point of leveling to explore FARTHER from the city?

Also how does it make any sence to have mobs start out from low-mid level, you open a door and they are all of a sudden high level. To me that is silly. It does turn a player off. Just read ffxiv forums in the past or old reviews. That was a major complaint. Mob levels show flow naturally through out the zones/regions and dungeons. NOT have sudden "omgwtf" increases. That makes the region unblanced.

Basically, I'm suggesting this to return the mob balance/ placement go back to normal. There is no need to have high level mobs in starter cities regions.

[Rosina]

it is a bit unfair that high level players get areas that were once for low-mid levels. Plus all the areas they had from the get go, and areas that got added. A low level became very limited in choice. My choices ti level around windy: west/east sarutabaruta (a few pages here are tedious at best due to how spread out mobs are) the canyon (hard to navigate at times, mobs spread out.) the east sarutabaruta towers (link/aggro is too high so death rate is pretty high) Giddeus (link/aggro is too high, death rate high) And that is it really. I shouldn't be forced to waste my play time running to a different area just to "try" to level. (as in going to a different nation)

[Demon6324236]

it is a bit unfair that high level players get areas that were once for low-mid levelsIts because there are more high levels than low levels...

[RAIST]

Raist you infact have stated that you see this as a pointless suggestion. And continue you "find" evidence to baxk it up. I know not all trial require weather. But point blank mobs found in ruins dotted around windurst are also located in other regions, so you would not need the ruins.

Also the mobs in the tower north of Giddeus pre change was solo-able from 5-13. Also Raist by net generation, i didn't mean age, I meant playing on ffxi. When I started we just played the game, did trial and error. We didn't do the "look on wiki" stuff.

Also Raist, you don't need to constently correct people when you CLEARLY "don't get it". You started ffxi later then I did. So you are not really in the know. You only know what wiki taught you. Which hate to say, in some cases have proven false.

Wiki is user created, so cases of inaccurate data will happen. It also can be freely changed by anyone with an account. So realistically anyone can write anything and state it as fact.

I did not state it as being pointless....I even quoted what I said. Again, you have misrepresented the conversation. This is exactly what I was talking about.

And I do get it, and I too experimented....even stated it at some point that I did so with subjobs to see how alternative combinations played out. And if someone is going to continually spout false information against something I just checked out, yes...I'm going to correct it if someone else doesn't do it first. If anything, it might be you that isn't getting it. You are refusing to accept that there is a reasonable, accepted means to avoid the dangers presented that challenges the direness of the situation as it was presented, and that the changes actually did serve a purpose and do fulfill a need. What you are requesting to fulfill your perceived need can already be fulfiilled easily, you are just refusing to accept change I guess. IDK why you were struggling so hard when so many others have not---especially considering you are a veteran player vs. 13 year olds that are new to the game.

OK, so the mobs are available where... in a rival nations area? Or somewhere out in no-man's land that requires lengthy travel to get too? Isn't that one of the same arguments that you've used--don't want to have to travel so much? If you feel it is a viable excuse on one hand, it can be applied to the other as well. You've been round and round so much.. I think you're starting to undermine your own position.

Whether I started in 2004 or late 2005 makes no difference if I too have actually explored and played the game extensively and have experienced the challenges. I never stated all I knew was what Wiki taught me...you are making assumptions again. As you are so fond of bringing up in other threads, you've never played with me and know nothing of my playstyle outside of what has been posted here. Many that have played at length with me will attest to the fact I try repeatedly to accomplish things on my own before I ask for help--and as such I've made a buttload of mistakes, and suffered countless deaths and delevels from it. It's a running joke amongst friends that I'm a connoisseur of Vana' diel dirt. They all know that if I'm asking for help...I'm having a hard time with it. I continually get asked where to do a trial, where to skillup, where to level, where/when is it best to farm this or that. So yes, I've explored in places I had no business being there...thwacked a certain dragon in the nuts when it drew me in as a last great act of defiance before he bit my head off....it's nothing new to me, and just another day in the life for me. I have engaged in sprited debate about theories, gears, events and often take a "show me" or "let me test it for myself" approach for a lot of it---to the point I have spent hours/days testing something just because I wanted to see it with my own eyes. so, please, take a look at your own experiences on these forums before you go on the attack with such assumptions about a player's experience with this game.

Everyone who's been around this game for an extensive amount of time knows that wiki's aren't always 100% correct initially, but most eventually do get corrected--by people who actually test/experience it. And the things I've cited from them have stood the test of time. The FoV/GoV data and references is collected not only from the books in game, but also what I and others have experienced from participating in the content.

I even took the time to verify some information in game, I wasn't just citing wiki's....beginning to wonder just how much of the information in this thread you've actually been digesting.

[Rosina]

Its because there are more high levels than low levels...

and the game is not newbie friendly as it once was.

[Demon6324236]

abd the game is not newbie friendly as it once was.

Actually no, its more so, you see the people who are to stubborn to make the choice of leveling fast via Abyssea/GoV fail to understand that. Where as most will also condemn those who think is good. They both allow new players to get themselves into the most populated part of the game in a matter of days, where as before it was a long grind to get to where most players had the most content and new content being made. In my eyes its like telling you there is a 100 mile bridge and it keeps being built outwards called FFXI, before, you had to walk all 100 miles and then some to catch up to everyone, now you can get someone to give you a car ride for a few bucks and you get caught up to everyone in just a few hours, then you can work with everyone else on the bridge together!

[Rosina]

btw Raise the part you kinda fail to read is that part you wrote
" Quite simply, the changes are not needed, " << this pretty much does infact mean you find it pointless. If something is not needed it is pointless.

I feel this suggested is needed, I gave my input. Also this game was never that hard/ long to get lvls. Only ones who actually complained are the ppl who wrere rude, leeched, and noobs in general. (who are the apparent ones who took over the ffxi community... or at least the assumed of most forum posters) I restarted this game 70 times. And i got 16 of those 70 up to max in my play time of 7 years.

[RAIST]

Also raist, since you seem to not read my post at all cept what you FEEL are inaccurate statements. You would be surprised to know that the quests in question NEVER needed assistence from anything. And there is something you forget, you need tabs inorder to put book sneak/invis. Did you ever thing or grasp that a person may not have tabs?

You are not grasping any concept then what wiki or the norm tells you. That is what I'm trying to get across to you. You shouldn't assume anything. Not everyone follows wiki/ the norm like a net gen zombie.

I personally perfer more free form play instead of going by the apparent ffxi bible. To really share an opinion about this though. You would have to physically experience it for yourself. You shouldn't comment on what you assume you see. I never had an issue leveling around windy before. Now i am. Its not really the difficaulty. It is on the fact that I'm running more then killing. Which for me gets dull fast. Mobs in the zones are too spread out.

No, I read your posts...some of it is just hard to follow. And in general, I don't always go through line for line through them. Most of the time it's a stream of consciousness thing...as points come back in to mind while typing, I comment on them. Sometimes I have to go back and stich something in that I overlooked, or I go back and quote a post later and comment on it. To be honest, it's hard to keep it straight with your arguments sometimes because you'll hop all over across multiple posts.

And that quest could have required stealth tactics in the past as you were initially presenting it, as there were aggressive mobs that would aggro you--as I already stated it would have depended on the level at which you were chosing to do it as to whether you wanted to avoid aggro or fight your way through it.

And the comment about the tabs just further shows that you aren't getting some of the points that have been made. How many times has FoV/GoV been pointed out in this thread?. It's just hard to fathom that someone would turn down the free xp offered from the books, especially if the pages are the mobs you are going to fight anyways.....but, again, that comes down to personal choice.

Which is what a lot of this boils down to. In spite of all the evidence, testimonies that could probably be gathered here to show you a more efficient, less stressful, and more enjoyable way to do something.....you have a history of turning your nose up at it. But, that's another series of debates....but it does still apply here.

Typo I guess, I'm guessing you meant I'm not grasping any concept other than what the wiki or the norm has told me. Again, you are assuming a lot there. Guessing you haven't read my last post yet. In addition, I spent the vast majority of my time in the game solo, and when in parties was more duo up to 4-manning things more so than 6-man. This was not only pre-abyssea, but pre WotG as well. I was duoing WotG missions at 75 caps. We didn't follow cookie-cutter roles/strategies often....to this day I still get teased about my prized BLM Blackjack posession, and cursed for inspiring other BLM's to become whirling dervishes--but that scythe allowed us to setup chains sometimes that sped things up like farming and such, allowing us to get our wins faster. Always an unconventional group, but we found our own way of getting things done. Conversations frequently went along the lines of: Can we pull this off? IDK, but won't know till we try--who still has reraise/raise? Wanna try again?

I don't follow an FFXI bible....never claimed I did....to be honest, don't think there really is such a thing. If there is, I sure haven't read it. Hell, I was a melee SMN when I started bringing that up--even in parties. I was using Carby in Khazaam, tossing out the cures, and thwacking with my staff..sometimes even daggers--and inspite of the objections, we kept chains lgoing, and people survived because I made sure there was a WHM for main healing...I made it work for me and my party, some didn't like it, they left, and were promptly replaced and we moved on. I've almost always found my own way of doing things... but when someone showed me a a better way to do it, I generally took it unless I had specific reasons not too (like I leveled my jobs to 75 before going into Abyssea because I wanted to keep my skills up so I could actually hit things and avoid resists when I started--didn't want to be dead weight).

Sure, there are tried and true methods to do some things, and you can tweak them to kinda sort of do it your own way, or do it completely bassackwards in everyone's eyes if it still works, it works. But let's face it....some things just make perfect sense. For instance, if your first job for Maat is BLM, why would you do BLM Maat any other way? It's simple, it's fast....barring that random resist, screwy lag, or a misfire on the macroing----it's virtually an assured win if you follow the script for it, or at least the spirit of it. Sometimes it just really doesn't make much sense to kill yourself repeatedly when you can just do it the proven way, unless you are just a glutten for punishment. That's what's so perplexing, regardless of logical assertions/contradictions--you refuse to accept there may be a simple way to do what you are having trouble doing.

The last statements in this post are a bit confusing. What I've assumed to have seen? Say what? Either I have seen LS Mates re-roll and level or I haven't, we've sent people to camps that worked or didn't. Either I've gone out and skilled up, shared my experiences with others and they've followed the path with success, or not. It's not anything I've "assumed". As I stated a long time ago...we've been putting things in practice. Then there's this bit:
"I never had an issue leveling around windy before. Now i am. Its not really the difficaulty."
But....you spent time on difficulties you did have with some camps, so...not sure what is what with that now. If the mobs aren't too hard, but were appropriate level for you to xp off of.....why were they giving you trouble?
"It is on the fact that I'm running more then killing. Which for me gets dull fast. Mobs in the zones are too spread out"
Than you might need to form a new plan I guess? You've brought up the whole free form style of play, then why not put it in practice? Find a spot that doesn't require so much running around. There are lots of places you can go, if you would just stick to your guns with this individuality factor and try new things...which is what has been suggested you do but refuse to do, even though you've proclaimed it is how you prefer to play.

And....weren't you a level 21 WAR just the other day? Now your profile is showing level 1...and in Bastok. IDK...starting to wonder if it's not more an issue of lack of focus combined with an actual unwillingness to experiment that is getting in the way with you finding your way in the new FFXI. I just don't run into people in game having this much trouble finding their way these days...it just defies logic, unless it is something more specific to your approach somehow.

[RAIST]

btw Raise the part you kinda fail to read is that part you wrote
" Quite simply, the changes are not needed, " << this pretty much does infact mean you find it pointless. If something is not needed it is pointless.

If you take it out of context, then I guess you could say that, but you can't slice and dice the complete thought. Even cutting it up like that, it doesn't mesh right. Not needed =/= pointless. Pointless implies it would make no difference towards acheiving the ultimate result, Not needed means it is not necessary to make the change in order to achieve the ultimate goal.

Put in context, with the whole statement ("Quite simply, the changes are not needed, and will drastically upset the structure of what the game has evolved into.") it has a deeper meaning. The discussion was about viable, reasonable alternative strategies for accomplishing the ultimate goals in question. The discussion was bringing forth ways to get things done even with this new obstical. After showing that it is not a permanent obstacle preventing progression, it is thus not needed to change it, especially in light of the point that it will upset the new structure that has evolved. Essentially, you are asking for a change so that one group of people can continue to do what they can already do, and in doing so, denying another group from doing what they are currently doing--when it can be basically left alone (as one poster pointed out, they could just make them non-aggressive) and both parties can continue to progress.

Therefore, it is not necessary for them to revert the zones to their previous states...as there are already remedies present, and if the threat is still too great, they can tweak it just a little to remove the threat without upsetting the current structure that is proving useful as inteneded when the change was implemented.

[Edit:]
as for the statement about "I never stated any reply here was a personal attack outside the one triss made." (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/25678-Windurst-region-fix.?p=346940&viewfull=1#post346940), you continued to put forth the notion that I have been harrassing you, which is clearly not the case.

Oh, and then there's this post (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/25678-Windurst-region-fix.?p=341535&viewfull=1#post341535), aimed directly at me:

I'm not even trying to point out insult to cover my tracks you proving it with each post ur doing. Instead of coming in here skiming my posts, stoning me for my experiences see for urself. You are helping those players. I'm not getting help. I have tried these suggestions... they didn't work. But my suggestion still stands.

simply put... get over urself.. ur doing nothing but attacking a poster for their suggestion. Nothing more....
(missed this point in this post earlier, but you assumed I was directly helping the new players, which was not the case...people ask where to go, we tell them. On some occasions, someone has teamed up and they made parties, but there is a lot of solo work going on...we try to encourage people to try things for themselves first to prevent full dependency on others)

[Rosina]

ok raist I'm not gonna read every bit of text in ur post because you over complicate ur replies.
here is something I suggest.

1) do not skim posts
2) if you have a question or unsure of what is written ask befor commenting.

What this actually boils down to as you simply do not "get it" and you go out of ur way to try and discredit something that you are not grasping.

I can only assume you physically never leveled in windurst. So you do not have any say on what I am personally going through. A new player, nor a vet who is returning, shouldn't go out of their way just to level up in the lower levels. Traveling does take too much time out of what your trying to do. I fully explained why the current "options" are not all that fun or easy to really safely level up in. You just haven't experienced it.

What you assume you see, may not be what is actually going on. You cannot sit there and tell me with out having experienced it for yourself what "options" are viable. I have tried most, and come ~>

[Rosina]

< ~
to find that compared to before, leveling is that much more tedious SINCE the change. And zones have became unbalanced and redundent. High levels ALSO have options WAY MORE then lower levels. They do not NEED more. Plus they are getting the zones in the new exspansion.

This topic is something you need to actually experience to really comment on. You can't really say "oh you can just go do this, this, or this" with out having to physically done it.

If you wanna prove me wrong walk a mile in my shoes, if that isn't something you wish to do. Please stop posting, because it does feel you are attacking (not personally) but you feel you must/ have to be right.

Did you think that you may be wrong because you lack that experience?

[Komori]

He did mention that he took a subjob and leveled it through the area to see what you meant. I think there's skimming over areas coming from you too. Maybe SE should work on the monster placement again; but I for one love the new Zeruhn Mines and areas like the basement of Garliage Citadel. I regularly go there by myself or with friends to either skill; get a few merits without dealing with others or try for the skill up ring (in Zeruhn).

[Slaxx]

ok raist I'm not gonna read every bit of text in ur post because you over complicate ur replies.
here is something I suggest.

1) do not skim posts
~>

No context to take this out of. You straight up tell someone that you don't read the detailed and thought out replies they give and then proceed to tell them not to skim posts.

If you expect someone to read your rambling and barely comperehensible walls of text (to give credit they have gotten better in the last few posts I've read) at least have the decency to accord them the same respect.

[cidbahamut]

You people suck at making concise arguments.

[Mahoro]

God, some admin please lock this thread. I feel like I'm reading a Williams S. Burroughs novel.

[Spiritreaver]

God, some admin please lock this thread. I feel like I'm reading a Williams S. Burroughs novel.

^-----Oh my goodness this!


And on a related note, i think threads like this(or rather what it has devolved into) could have occurred pretty much entirely in Private Messages. When is that feature going to be unlocked mods?

[Rosina]

He did mention that he took a subjob and leveled it through the area to see what you meant. I think there's skimming over areas coming from you too. Maybe SE should work on the monster placement again; but I for one love the new Zeruhn Mines and areas like the basement of Garliage Citadel. I regularly go there by myself or with friends to either skill; get a few merits without dealing with others or try for the skill up ring (in Zeruhn).

I am not saying the mines though.... Just windurst areas. And the ciditel mobs didn't get that much of a noticeble change since the lower part was already higher anyway. I'm talking mobs that was once mid level are now high level.

As for he tried, he took a lvl 59 whm and went there to see the quest area. He never leveled a character from the ground up, and said he couldn't.

i never skimed his posts, and only didn't want to read his recent cuz it was the same bs as he keeps writing. He is only spreading what he assumes he is seeing.

[RAIST]

I am not saying the mines though.... Just windurst areas. And the ciditel mobs didn't get that much of a noticeble change since the lower part was already higher anyway. I'm talking mobs that was once mid level are now high level.

As for he tried, he took a lvl 59 whm and went there to see the quest area. He never leveled a character from the ground up, and said he couldn't.

i never skimed his posts, and only didn't want to read his recent cuz it was the same bs as he keeps writing. He is only spreading what he assumes he is seeing.

You really need to go back and read the posts. I was not skimming them. If you had bothered to take the time to read my responses to most of your last blast of posts before my patience wore out with trying to respond to every single point in the long run of them, you would have a firmer grasp of that point (in case you don't afford the same respect I try to extend to you....the way you post makes it VERY difficult to respond to in full, all the time--I take the time to try to proofread my posts, re-read them, edit/update them--you sometimes post 4 or 5 times to one of mine because it takes so long sometimes---roughly 35 minutes spent so far on this ONE post to you).

Guess your memory of SE's form of balance may be a bit fuzzy. Each starter nation got these adjustments made to zones that were of the same caliber for their regions. No other starter nation has a zone laid out like H. Ruins, So, naturally, there would be some variances--but they DID have zones previously setup to be used in the same level ranges that received the SAME adjustments. As per SE's past history for adjustments, if they reverted H. Ruins, these similar zones in the other starter nations would likewise be adjusted. So, by extension, what you have requested could very reasonably be expected to apply across the board for those parallel portions of the game--and would be a big upset to a certain section of the playerbase, to correct a problem that already has a correction built into the current structure of the game. On our server, R. Pass and Dangruff are used a LOT for very specific reasons (as I have seen first hand, because I go there a LOT myself), and apparently so is H. ruins, as evidenced by the fact I have yet to NOT find 90+ players using it on our server.

umm.. 59 WHM? Where are you getting that from? My WHM is 99 btw. Case in point that you are in fact skimming my posts, and making wild assumptions about me. If you had taken the time to actually read them , you would have caught that I casted snk/inv with 49 WHM skill and never said I was on WHM. Hint: I was sending Garuda to kill the mobs I was testing (was pointed out in one of the posts). In short, I was exploring on 99 SMN/WHM, in case you still haven't figured it out.

You also would have read that I experimented and leveled in starter zones in 05/06 and experienced the same challenges one would face in all starter zones. If you actually compared them, you would see Bastok and Windy have some similar target options as far as difficutlies go--in some cases the Bastok path could actually be rougher on you. But, I didn't just level in Bastok. I made a lot of friends from Sandy and Windurst, and cooking was my primary craft, so I actually spent a lot of time coming from the Sara and Ronfaure paths (even made the mistake of wandering into KRT and got drawn in by a certain dragon....guess you missed that part too, didn't you?) It wasn't only for bettter support for my crafting, but also because I didn't reallly care too much for the Gustaburg path back then. I used it early on, but quickly got tired of being ripped apart by lizards and turtlebacks and changed camps when I could. Spent many a night chatting under a tree in Sandy, or farming chips/silks in Windy with my friends for cash.

[afterthought:] That zone right there in E. Ronfare has for the longest time had mobs as low as 4, as well as up into the 60's, and even NM's as high as 95....just saying, it really isn't something new to have a massively overpowered mob appear in a lower level zone--granted, maybe not a full time situation for the absurd end of the spectrum, but it has always been possible for players to wander haphazardly into aggro range of a ridiculously overpowering monster...a point that just doesn't seem to be sinking in, no matter how many different examples are given.[just a few thoughts that hit me when reading over this again]

So, yes, I do have some familiarity with the mobs there in the past, but it was about 5+ years ago, so the specifics were blurry--that's why I took the time to actually GO there. You also would have read that LS members have been starting up there and going through the exact same zones/levels/lack of subjob/etc. as you are--only, for some reason, they have been successful at it. Thus, I don't need to pay to create a new character and spend the time to prove something that I have already seen played out in practice...yet another point that you should have picked up on if you were actually reading the posts.

I am not spreading what I am ASSUMING to have seen (you keep using that word...), I am pointing out things I have ACTUALLY seen, experienced, tested...things that have been PROVEN to work and to be TRUE. Why you can't accept such simple truths as being self-evident defies logic.

Maybe that's it...do you like to defy logic simply for the sake of defying it? IDK, but so long as you keep challenging things known/proven to be true and/or disrespecting those who simply see things differently than you, you take the risk of being rebutted/challenged. Please, if you really don't like being debated or called out for bad behavioral traits, either start using more common sense and show some modicum of respect...or just drop it when you have been corrected by those that have already been there/done that.

Again, all of this back and forth could have been avoided if you would have just followed those basic principles and not flown off the handle and assumed a clueless player was attacking you specifically, digging in your heels with a sort of I'm right, your wrong and don't know what you're talking about attitude. If you would just take the time to reflect on your own and other's post(s) and actually seen where things maybe/were in error, or simply a difference of opinion---there would have never been any need for me to put up all these details to support my point of view or to try to provide more accurate versions of the situations being discussed.