Where is my Phoenix Down?!

[Vangoh]

So I was wondering why would this be the only (I don't know about FFXIV) FF that doesn't have phoenix downs?! How many times have you found yourself with a buddy and neither of you got the ability to raise each other? Wouldn't it be nice if we could use a phoenix down on other people?

And while we're on the subject, we should be able to use beneficial items on others too!

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Where is my Phoenix Down?!It's in the reraiser items.

[Miera]

Because we have Reraise? =\ Its kind of the same thing except you arent relying oin someone to apply.. Oh and BRDs have a temp RR as well.

[Vangoh]

I'm not talking about reraise, nevermind the reraise! Don't tell me you haven't got pwned in a remote place and there are no raisers in the zone? Or you simply don't have reraise with you...not everyone carries that stuff. Just makes sense to me to have a raise item that can be used on others. Just like being able to use items on others it STILL Final Fantasy right?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Your pheonix down was used in the ingredients to make the reraise items.

AND... in other FF games, you have to do it yourself, this is a coop game with a community.

[Vangoh]

Your pheonix down was used in the ingredients to make the reraise items.

AND... in other FF games, you have to do it yourself, this is a coop game with a community.

Phoenix down sounds like a coop item to me...

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Phoenix down sounds like a coop item to me...That's why you have mages.

[Miera]

I'm not talking about reraise, nevermind the reraise! Don't tell me you haven't got pwned in a remote place and there are no raisers in the zone? Or you simply don't have reraise with you...not everyone carries that stuff. Just makes sense to me to have a raise item that can be used on others. Just like being able to use items on others it STILL Final Fantasy right?
Actually all I have are Mage jobs except two so I always have RR. I learned that the hard way in my days of Campaign battle. Damn you stingy mages!

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Actually all I have are Mage jobs except two so I always have RR. I learned that the hard way in my days of Campaign battle. Damn you stingy mages!In my experiences, it's just the JP ones. No offence, just my experience.(Might just be the server.) But um... why didn't you buy a RR from the NPCs?

[Miera]

At the time? I was fairly new to FFXI and campaign battle and if I remember right you could only buy it from the Campaign people from your nation in the past and I was always out there in Grauberg or something and I was from windy.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Die less. lol
I solo entire campaigns on BST now anyway so it's moot to me. ^^

[Miera]

lol That was like 3 years ago when I was like level 60ish ;D

[PizzaTheHut]

Hmmm I don't know...at this stage in the game you shouldn't really have an excuse for "...I don't carry that stuff..."

Medicines, scrolls, items and FoV reraise. I'm assuming downs would have to be crafted and cost 15-30k a stack. You know, just like the ridiculously priced hairpin/earring. :rolleyes:

[wintermute]

"Because we have Reraise" is not a valid answer. By that same logic, Raise shouldn't be in the game either because we have Reraise. See where I'm going with this? A Phoenix Down would just be another item to Raise someone. Make them ridiculously hard to get or something if SE is afraid they'll be a gamebreaker.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

No, it's still a simple concern over being a coop game with a community over a single player. You can't expect NPCs to go around pheonix downing people in FFIV for the same reason a WAR main shouldn't be carring then around just to raise random PT members.

But I still stand by my point of die less. lol

[Harpalina]

But I still stand by my point of die less. lol


Sometimes that's easier said than done lol. My taru with her fail HP and on my DD jobs I have a tendency to...well, take many dirt naps. lol.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Sometimes that's easier said than done lol. My taru with her fail HP and on my DD jobs I have a tendency to...well, take many dirt naps. lol.Come to Siren, I'll keep you alive on my WHM or die trying!

[HFX7686]

I'd like to see Phoenix Downs in the game. I've always wondered why there aren't any. An item to raise another person would be nice to have, even with all the other raise and reraise items/magic available. It'd just be nice.

Make sure the icon is a cute little glowing golden feather!

[Penance]

This post reminded me of this picture:

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=176

I would like the item in case the healer forgets to put reraise up. Especially usefull in salvage imo. Quite annoying if you enter and raiser didnt notice his rr wore

[viion]

So I was wondering why would this be the only (I don't know about FFXIV)

XIV doesnt have it, nore does XIV have reraise, only 2 classes get raise but due to the way the class system works once you have raise you can use it on any class and it costs no MP. and has a 10second recast.

[Jamesruglia]

A Phoenix Down to raise others would be an interesting item, especially now that most people don't seem to care what raise they get as Abyssea will shower them with more~

[Vangoh]

It's good to see more people support this idea...too much negativity at the start..

[Dallas]

Ok, didn't see the answer so I'll post it now.

Why are there no Phoenix Downs in FFXI? There's no Phoenix.

[Haldarn]

There's no Phoenix.
So I guess you didn't play through Chains of Promathia then?

[viion]

About Phoenix Pinion.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

So I guess you didn't play through Chains of Promathia then?If you can't handle COP, I can solo it on BST for you.

[Auriga]

So I was wondering why would this be the only (I don't know about FFXIV) FF that doesn't have phoenix downs?! How many times have you found yourself with a buddy and neither of you got the ability to raise each other? Wouldn't it be nice if we could use a phoenix down on other people?

And while we're on the subject, we should be able to use beneficial items on others too!

----------------

Suggestion: Phoenix Down (Key Item)

Obtained: 2.5k - 15k Gil via Signet NPC in respective main city ONLY
(however "certain" Altana based NPC's like the ones in san d'oria could instead issue this,
where-ever located & claim the proceeds would go to their church or home nation perhaps?).

Effect: After a certain amount of time (no sooner than 5 min but no longer than 30min) an
option to use this key item will display the option to have raise cast upon you from the
heavens (something like "The light of Altana shines upon you" would display once yes is
chosen and then a raise prompt would follow like normal.

Side Effects: Double Weakness & unable to cast reraise upon oneself for the same amount of
time the key item was set to (to avoid SE rejecting the idea on grounds of potential "abuse" or
some type of complaint that it'd offset something).

Notes: If said person invokes the use of the item but does not actually raise him/herself the
key item would revert to be used again later (to avoid people complaining about losses for
whatever reason). Also the key item could only be bought no more than 1-3x per real life day?
(to support SE not rejecting this idea further and also lastly the concept of 3x per real life day
might be enhance-able via quests? instead of the 1x per real life day).

PS: You can find this on my main thread here. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/2771-More-Ideas-for-SE-Part-2?p=33852#post33852)

[Alhanelem]

We may not have downs, but we do have Pinions and Feathers.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

You have to kill baby pheonixes to get down. Get to it.

[Auriga]

Down With PS2! Down With Limitations! Fight The Power!

======

I'm not sure but it seems the following statement would apply: AMEN!!

[Vangoh]

----------------

Suggestion: Phoenix Down (Key Item)

Obtained: 2.5k - 15k Gil via Signet NPC in respective main city ONLY
(however "certain" Altana based NPC's like the ones in san d'oria could instead issue this,
where-ever located & claim the proceeds would go to their church or home nation perhaps?).

Effect: After a certain amount of time (no sooner than 5 min but no longer than 30min) an
option to use this key item will display the option to have raise cast upon you from the
heavens (something like "The light of Altana shines upon you" would display once yes is
chosen and then a raise prompt would follow like normal.

Side Effects: Double Weakness & unable to cast reraise upon oneself for the same amount of
time the key item was set to (to avoid SE rejecting the idea on grounds of potential "abuse" or
some type of complaint that it'd offset something).

Notes: If said person invokes the use of the item but does not actually raise him/herself the
key item would revert to be used again later (to avoid people complaining about losses for
whatever reason). Also the key item could only be bought no more than 1-3x per real life day?
(to support SE not rejecting this idea further and also lastly the concept of 3x per real life day
might be enhance-able via quests? instead of the 1x per real life day).

PS: You can find this on my main thread here. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/2771-More-Ideas-for-SE-Part-2?p=33852#post33852)

I like the idea of it being a key item, just not sure about liking the side effects. It already sounds like is a limited item. Oh and does this theory supports the idea of using it on others? Just didn't saw it included...

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I like the idea of it being a key item, just not sure about liking the side effects. It already sounds like is a limited item. Oh and does this theory supports the idea of using it on others? Just didn't saw it included...But if it's a key item, where dose it end? If it's permanant, what would be the point to the scrolls? If it's consumable, then what's the point of not useing the scroll?

[lowkey]

Or you simply don't have reraise with you...not everyone carries that stuff. Just makes sense to me to have a raise item that can be used on others.

1. Who's fault is that? If you don't carry rr items (or get it from field parchment), you run the risk of having to home point.

2. Are you saying that you can't be bothered to carry a rr hairpin with you, but wouldn't hesitate to lug around phoenix downs? Oh it's for your irresponsible friend you say? Well you can also loan him your rr hairpin too.

[Vangoh]

But if it's a key item, where dose it end? If it's permanant, what would be the point to the scrolls? If it's consumable, then what's the point of not useing the scroll?

Hey no one uses ballista/brenner anymore, SE just creates stuff and sometimes they just leave them to die.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Hey no one uses ballista/brenner anymore, SE just creates stuff and sometimes they just leave them to die.I never did those to begin with. lol

[Chronofantasy]

If everyone can simply buy/obtain a raise item then the mages would be out of a job. I think RR should be enough, but maybe one day SE will give us a phoenix down or some form of that to use on a pty member if both are on a DD-type job. I think generally duo'ers will often be DD/mage and that mage usually has raise.

Speaking of soloing raising though, I think if you die with your fellowship NPC out and you don't have any form of RR up then your fellow NPC should give you some sort of raise before they disappear from your side.

[Alderin]

Why so many flames?

They could work as a consumable. I don't see them working as a KI. In fact there already is a KI that gives a raise effect. It's called Atma of the Apocalypse.

However yes I agree, Phoenix Downs could work, and I would more then likely carry a stack on me.

I don't carry a hairpin on me because when I am in some form of risk of dying I carry a WHM along with me. However I do carry a RR scroll which obviously only has one use - then you are stuck on the field without RR for a 2nd time.

Why not make a raising item?

[Vangoh]

Why so many flames?

I dunno man they hating way too much, is not like it's gonna hurt anyone. Oh the whms? pshhh don't be jealous lol no one's gonna take your precious.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Plus, pheonix down is not a RR item, it's a raise item. You'd only be able to use it on dead people.

[Vangoh]

Plus, pheonix down is not a RR item, it's a raise item. You'd only be able to use it on dead people.

YEAH! That's the point!!!! An item to raise OTHER dead ppl without the need of casting or the need of a mage, NO ONE said anything about RR lol. As a matter of fact RR shouldn't even be mentioned here, "well ppl should be carrying RR with them at all times" well stuff happens and not everyone will follow this rule plus is just a natural FF item. Very coop too if you ask me.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

YEAH! That's the point!!!! An item to raise OTHER dead ppl without the need of casting or the need of a mage, NO ONE said anything about RR lol. As a matter of fact RR shouldn't even be mentioned here, "well ppl should be carrying RR with them at all times" well stuff happens and not everyone will follow this rule plus is just a natural FF item. Very coop too if you ask me.Half this thread is about RR, but no, raises need to be left to the mages. That's how the game works. You shouldn't have to rely on the WAR to get you back up. lol

[Flunklesnarkin]

Well they already have a raise 2 rod in the game...

Maybe they could add a raise 1 or raise 3 rod that is easier to obtain... I think its use would be limited tho...

Most of the time I'm playing with other people.. there is at least one mage who can raise.. and if i'm soloing a raise rod wouldn't help.. i'd just need regular reraise.

edit.. apparently there is a raise 1 rod as well .. from one of the monarch linn enm's

[Coldbrand]

Why do people talk about reraise with Phoenix Down? They'd be to bring someone ELSE back up, not to reraise yourself.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Why do people talk about reraise with Phoenix Down? They'd be to bring someone ELSE back up, not to reraise yourself.It's the way the thread turned fast. The OP wanted a non-abyssea KI RR and called it a pheonix down.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Why do people talk about reraise with Phoenix Down? They'd be to bring someone ELSE back up, not to reraise yourself.

way to raise other person... raise rod or raise ii rod ...

All SE would have to do is hit a few switches and make them all jobs.

[Vangoh]

It's the way the thread turned fast. The OP wanted a non-abyssea KI RR and called it a pheonix down.

I believe it was you who turned it into a RR thread, and it's not about reraise. So many things we could have done with a phoenix down from the start. Don't tell me you don't remember when ppl would shout for ages in valkurn dunes for a raise and nothing? Just because there are mages everywhere it doesn't mean they will always be there to raise you.

[Flunklesnarkin]

What would you have a "phoenix down" do?

[Vangoh]

What would you have a "phoenix down" do?

lol if you ever played any other FF other than this one you would know.

[Flunklesnarkin]

lol if you ever played any other FF other than this one you would know.

Question still stands... if you are trying to promote an idea.. it helps to state specifically what you think it should do..

[Krashport]

Sometimes it very hard to find a person w/ the "Raise spell"

Image this: Bob meets Bob soloing in dunes, They both decided to party it up, Bob is a MNK w/o a SJ and Bob is a WAR subbing MNK they both have no way in raising each other w/in job reasons. In any case they both start wrestling... I mean "fighting" a "Sheep" and yes their both Galka, Moving on.... The "Sheep" is @ 20% and Bobs HP is not looking good... So Bob Vokes the "Sheep" trying to get the "Sheep" to dance... Wait i min.... To focus on Him, But not luck Bob dies... ; ; Bob scrams like a lil schoolgirl NOOOOoooo.. You killed my friend, I'm going to kirr you "Sheep" you... so Bob WAR subbing MNK won the battle in the fight against the "Sheep" Now Bob the MNK is on the ground dead, Bob the WAR/MNK uses an "Item" to Raise Bob.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Sometimes it very hard to find a person w/ the "Raise spell"

Image this: Bob meets Bob soloing in dunes, They both decided to party it up, Bob is a MNK w/o a SJ and Bob is a WAR subbing MNK they both have no way in raising each other w/in job reasons. In any case they both start wrestling... I mean "fighting" a "Sheep" and yes their both Galka, Moving on.... The "Sheep" is @ 20% and Bobs HP is not looking good... So Bob Vokes the "Sheep" trying to get the "Sheep" to dance... Wait i min.... To focus Him, But not luck Bob dies... ; ; Bob scrams like a lil schoolgirl NOOOOoooo.. You killed my friend, I'm going to kirr you "Sheep" you... so Bob WAR subbing MNK won the battle in the fight against the "Sheep" Now Bob the MNK is on the ground Bob using an "Item" to Raise Bob.

Yah.. i was suggesting taking an existing in game item and making it all jobs.. there are raise 1 and raise 2 rods in the game.. that raise other people.

Although Vangoh is suggesting a phoenix down would be more than just a raising another person type of deal... he seems unable to elaborate however.

[Krashport]

Yah.. i was suggesting taking an existing in game item and making it all jobs.. there are raise 1 and raise 2 rods in the game.. that raise other people.

Although Vangoh is suggesting a phoenix down would be more than just a raising another person type of deal... he seems unable to elaborate however.

phoenix down is alrdy in the game drops from a BCNM and used to make RRpins? and phoenix is a Great Katana "whats his face" uses it in CoP on the airship? >.>

[Flunklesnarkin]

phoenix down is alrdy in the game drops from a BCNM and used to make RRpins? and phoenix is a Sword "whats his face" uses it in CoP on the airship? >.>

Ahh.. the OP was talking about making an actual phoenix down key item.. but i do agree.. it wasn't the best thought out suggestion.

[Coldbrand]

What would phoenix down do? Cast raise/raise2/raise3 on target dead player. Item. Up to Squaresoft to decide the details of rare, rare/ex, ex or not and which tier of raise if not an entirely different set of properties in terms of weakness/exp loss details.

[Krashport]

What would phoenix down do? Cast raise/raise2/raise3 on target dead player. Item. Up to Squaresoft to decide the details of rare, rare/ex, ex or not and which tier of raise if not an entirely different set of properties in terms of weakness/exp loss details.

What I would think if they made a "KI" for the Ability to raise other Members, I would hope it would need to wait one tally after use to recharge.

Reason: Some not "All" Would abuse it, as to not care if they live or die w/in FFXI cause "Anyone" can raise.

Other thing if SE made it in item form where Crafters can make and sell/give freebees could help "Raise" the AH cause its dieing.... :p

[Zyeriis]

I don't personally see the point in this, if you can't remember to get an RR item, then how will you remember to get a phoenix down item, key item or not?

[Coldbrand]

Have you played FF games? Phoenix Downs are for other people, not reraise. Even if you had reraise, what if you used it? There goes that, now you need a Phoenix Down. Damn some people are ignorant in this thread.

[Zyeriis]

Have you played FF games? Phoenix Downs are for other people, not reraise. Even if you had reraise, what if you used it? There goes that, now you need a Phoenix Down. Damn some people are ignorant in this thread.


I'm not talking about reraise, nevermind the reraise! Don't tell me you haven't got pwned in a remote place and there are no raisers in the zone? Or you simply don't have reraise with you...not everyone carries that stuff. Just makes sense to me to have a raise item that can be used on others. Just like being able to use items on others it STILL Final Fantasy right?

Vangoh = OP, that's his second post. Who's ignorant?

Edit: Sure, he is refering to having no one in the zone who can raise but, again, he clearly stated not having reraise.

[Coldbrand]

What does that quote have to do with my post? He also realizes that phoenix downs are for other people, unlike you.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I understand what a phoenix down is.. but i still think the idea of a "phoenix down" being added to the game is unnecessary.

[Krashport]

I don't personally see the point in this, if you can't remember to get an RR item, then how will you remember to get a phoenix down item, key item or not?

Reason I would think: New members If I'm just in an area chillin on a job that can't raise, And I see that member get killed by a Gob's Bomb, I could use that "Raise KI" thats "Tally" or the Raise item on that member I bought off the AH. Would save me a trip back to town to job change. Zyeriis most new member would say to you "What RR mean?"

[Zyeriis]

What does that quote have to do with my post? He also realizes that phoenix downs are for other people, unlike you.
The thread also links the idea to key items, which are impossible to "use" on other people?

[Krashport]

I understand what a phoenix down is.. but i still think the idea of a "phoenix down" being added to the game is unnecessary.

I Agree Flunklesnarkin.

[Coldbrand]

And I said they should be proper phoenix downs that aren't key items. So why should I care? Sorry you think everyone should have perfect memories, but even if they did there would still be situations where phoenix downs would be beneficial.

[Krashport]

The thread also links the idea to key items, which are impossible to "use" on other people?

True. unless you can trade in that "KI" for the Ability to raise a member.

[Zyeriis]

And I said they should be proper phoenix downs that aren't key items. So why should I care? Sorry you think everyone should have perfect memories, but even if they did there would still be situations where phoenix downs would be beneficial.
I should expect people to have perfect memories? You're the one that was calling me ignorant.

[Coldbrand]

No, you're the one who has that expectation. Remember? No one should EVER forget a reraise item. Problems with your short term memory?

[Zyeriis]

Let me rephrase my original question. If you personally can't remember to have RR on you at all times, you then automatically would expect some one else in the zone, where there are somehow no people with the actual Raise spell, carrying around phoenix downs? Which would be a +1 inventory space for them. Sure, your next argument would be that some one else that is actually doing stuff with you, would have them but, again the same logic applies. If you forgot your RR item, then they'll not have forgotten their phoenix downs? If you are doing something with some one else, with any remote chance of dying, there really is no excuse for at least one of you to have some form of healing to begin with. Most jobs that can heal, can raise.

[Zyeriis]

No, you're the one who has that expectation. Remember? No one should EVER forget a reraise item. Problems with your short term memory?
You're an idiot :/ That is a horrible albeit failure of an attempt to twist some one's words to fit your skewed context.

[Flunklesnarkin]

And I said they should be proper phoenix downs that aren't key items. So why should I care? Sorry you think everyone should have perfect memories, but even if they did there would still be situations where phoenix downs would be beneficial.

Somebody is mayad lol

The game has so few penalties in it as is... heaven forbid you happen to forget a reraise scroll AND not have a friendly mage nearby.

[Coldbrand]

Yes, all 2 person groups must be X/Healer. Ok. It's almost as if having better functioning items like EVERY OTHER FF GAME IN HISTORY would allow for that to be untrue(even though it already is.) Thanks for proving my point, phoenix downs are great. They target other people, and even with reraise they're still used. Ever played FFT? When my whitemage with reraise goes down twice, guess what comes next!

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Somebody is mayad lol

The game has so few penalties in it as is... heaven forbid you happen to forget a reraise scroll AND not have a friendly mage nearby.Or one on a FL or LS.

[vungster]

Atma of the Apocalypse prevents RR failures.

[Coldbrand]

Or one on a FL or LS.

You can't access your FL while dead.



Atma of the Apocalypse prevents RR failures.

Content will be moving beyond Abyssea soon enough.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

You can't access your FL while dead.So you only ever talk to people on your FL by opening it every time?

[Flunklesnarkin]

I wonder if i can be more condescending and arrogant than coldbrand

"People still die!!1!.. what losers >:U"


successfultroll.jpg

[Coldbrand]

So you only ever talk to people on your FL by opening it every time?

Can you point to the part of my post where I said that? You only know who's online that you recently spoke to generally in my experiences.

Either way, nothing you've said in this thread's debunked the usefulness of phoenix downs. I really don't feel the need to further argue since an item that allows non casters to raise people will always be useful, regardless of the presence of reraise in any form. Phoenix downs should be in final fantasy games, period.



I wonder if i can be more condescending and arrogant than coldbrand

"People still die!!1!.. what losers >:U"


successfultroll.jpg

What are you talking about exactly?

[Krashport]

Let me rephrase my original question. If you personally can't remember to have RR on you at all times, you then automatically would expect some one else in the zone, where there are somehow no people with the actual Raise spell, carrying around phoenix downs? People can forget things!

It's all about having options I guess aswell, I see you like to assuming w/o admitting it. But that's fine some people do. "I didn't make this Thread but it does make a few points" ~Its all about options~

[Zyeriis]

Yes, all 2 person groups must be X/Healer. Ok. It's almost as if having better functioning items like EVERY OTHER FF GAME IN HISTORY would allow for that to be untrue(even though it already is.) Thanks for proving my point, phoenix downs are great. They target other people, and even with reraise they're still used. Ever played FFT? When my whitemage with reraise goes down twice, guess what comes next!
Words + you + my mouth = Disgraceful.
No one said they had to be maining healing. And if you have the chance to die, if you have no healing abilities, you're an idiot. There's an argument? Okay, whatever you say. Also, this isn't FFT.

If you want phoenix downs just so you don't have to have a mage or any form of healing, why should I care? If you want to not die, buy potions, oh wait, those aren't cost effective. Why would phoenix downs be?

[Flunklesnarkin]

Can you point to the part of my post where I said that? You only know who's online that you recently spoke to generally in my experiences.

Either way, nothing you've said in this thread's debunked the usefulness of phoenix downs. I really don't feel the need to further argue since an item that allows non casters to raise people will always be useful, regardless of the presence of reraise in any form. Phoenix downs should be in final fantasy games, period.




What are you talking about exactly?

only noobs die.. therefore phoenix down isn't useful >_>

[Zyeriis]

People can forget things!

It's all about having options I guess aswell, I see you like to assuming w/o admitting it. But that's fine some people do. "I didn't make this Thread but it does make a few points" ~Its all about options~
Cause I'm the only person making assumptions and only the people who can't see the point behind adding phoenix downs are the ones making assumptions. Got it.

[Coldbrand]

only noobs die.. therefore phoenix down isn't useful >_>

I never said that at any point. My arguments have been:
.)Phoenix Downs are an integral staple of the FF series that should be present in each and every FF game.
.)Phoenix Downs reduce the constant urgency to always have a healer nearby, which I think is a positive.
.)Phoenix Downs are useful regardless of the existence of the various forms of reraise, which I don't think is debatable, since everyone dies and often more than once, including the people who can bring others up from death, using phoenix downs on those people is the next logical step in every other FF game, which was the point of the FFT comparsion.

I've never made any mention of anyone's skill levels, so I don't understand your behaving so sensitively. As it stands, neither of you two have really debunked my arguments, because they're basically factually true(with the exception that I think phoenix downs should be in each FF game, which is an opinion). Having more options is good, as it turns out.

[Zyeriis]

I never said that at any point. My arguments have been:
.)Phoenix Downs are an integral staple of the FF series that should be present in each and every FF game.
.)Phoenix Downs reduce the constant urgency to always have a healer nearby, which I think is a positive.
.)Phoenix Downs are useful regardless of the existence of the various forms of reraise, which I don't think is debatable, since everyone dies and often more than once, including the people who can bring others up from death, using phoenix downs on those people is the next logical step in every other FF game, which was the point of the FFT comparsion.

I've never made any mention of anyone's skill levels, so I don't understand your behaving so sensitively. As it stands, neither of you two have really debunked my arguments, because they're basically factually true(with the exception that I think phoenix downs should be in each FF game, which is an opinion). Having more options is good, as it turns out.

Everything you just wrote was written in an opinion format not counting the part about phoenix downs being a staple of the final fantasy series yet, in the very same post you affirm them as factually true? (Something is backwards here as you claim the things you wrote in opinion format as facts and you consider the fact in that list to be your opinion [sort of])

Point 2) "which i think is a positive" It's not. If you have no form of healing around you, then you aren't playing any final fantasy game properly.

Point 3) People die, that's supposed to happen. Unless you feel that we should all have stacks of 99 phoenix downs, which would require phoenix downs to be extremely cheap. In which case, fuck mages, let's just zerg everything. Sounds challenging :/

[Flunklesnarkin]

I think what we are really forgetting to talk about here is the re-phoenix down

for when you forget reraise and your buddy forgets a phoenix down...

you can use the re-phoenix down

[Coldbrand]

Phoenix downs are a staple of the FF series. Fact.
Having phoenix downs would reduce the need for healers (specifically people who can cast raise.) Fact.
Phoenix downs would be useful even in the presence of reraise. Fact.

http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/

If you were reading all my posts I presented the idea of rare/ex phoenix downs in my first post. Never have I mentioned 99 stacks. Oops.

[Zyeriis]

Phoenix downs are a staple of the FF series. Fact.
Having phoenix downs would reduce the need for healers (specifically people who can cast raise.) Fact.
Phoenix downs would be useful even in the presence of reraise. Fact.

http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/

If you were reading all my posts I presented the idea of rare/ex phoenix downs in my first post. Never have I mentioned 99 stacks. Oops.
Some one has reading issues :/ "Unless you want stacks of 99 phoenix downs" =/= you said you wanted that.

"Phoenix Downs reduce the constant urgency to always have a healer nearby, which I think is a positive." Opinion.
"Phoenix Downs are useful regardless of the existence of the various forms of reraise, which I don't think is debatable," Opinion.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Phoenix downs are a staple of the FF series. Fact.
Having phoenix downs would reduce the need for healers (specifically people who can cast raise.) Fact.
Phoenix downs would be useful even in the presence of reraise. Fact.

http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/

If you were reading all my posts I presented the idea of rare/ex phoenix downs in my first post. Never have I mentioned 99 stacks. Oops.

We can start with the Fact style of posting now :D

Phoenix down's won't replace a healer.. if you think you might die.. bring a healer.. Fact

also.. broccoli is gross.. Fact

[Coldbrand]

Some one has reading issues :/ "Unless you want stacks of 99 phoenix downs" =/= you said you wanted that.

"Phoenix Downs reduce the constant urgency to always have a healer nearby, which I think is a positive." Opinion.
"Phoenix Downs are useful regardless of the existence of the various forms of reraise, which I don't think is debatable," Opinion.

It's not a matter of opinion that they're useful regardless of reraise. It can be proven easily. Here:

I'm an adventurer, I cast reraise and fight a hard fight with a group. I die, reraise item is used up. I die again, but the WHM is also dead, phoenix down brings me back up.

Phoenix Down was useful in that situation functioning as it would in any other game in the series. The only way it wouldn't be a fact is if it was implemented in a way that bared no resemblance to the rest of the franchise, which the vast majority of the items in the game don't do. Potions are still potions, ethers are still ethers, etc.

My statement that I think it's positive that the monopoly on party presence that healers have being lessened is a positive is an opinion yes, however no matter how small the reduction in their necessity may be, any change is in fact a change and therefore the first part of that sentence is a fact.

[Zyeriis]

1) If either you or your healer die, more than once (thus resulting in no RR). You failed. Get over it.

2) If you didn't bring a healer and die, more than once (thus resulting in no RR) or die once without having RR. You failed the moment you left unprepared. Get over it.

[Coldbrand]

1) If either you or your healer die, more than once (thus resulting in no RR). You failed. Get over it.

2) If you didn't bring a healer and die, more than once (thus resulting in no RR) or die once without having RR. You failed the moment you left unprepared. Get over it.
U failed lol omg xD so randum

I'm glad you're not a game designer, and sorry you expect everything to go smoothly. A large part of the fun in earlier FF games is managing weakened party members and trying to stabilize mid fight via raise/phoenix down etc. Have you played them? I strongly doubt there weren't boss fights that didn't present this situation to you, unless you just grind out for hours before progressing in each title.

Here an example of this kind of gameplay being exciting in really oldschool FFXI as proof of concept that the afforementioned gameplay can exist in the XI environment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJQLCN_qqFY

[Zyeriis]

It's not a matter of opinion that they're useful regardless of reraise. It can be proven easily. Here:

I'm an adventurer, I cast reraise and fight a hard fight with a group. I die, reraise item is used up. I die again, but the WHM is also dead, phoenix down brings me back up.

Phoenix Down was useful in that situation functioning as it would in any other game in the series. The only way it wouldn't be a fact is if it was implemented in a way that bared no resemblance to the rest of the franchise, which the vast majority of the items in the game don't do. Potions are still potions, ethers are still ethers, etc.

My statement that I think it's positive that the monopoly on party presence that healers have being lessened is a positive is an opinion yes, however no matter how small the reduction in their necessity may be, any change is in fact a change and therefore the first part of that sentence is a fact.

How many chances do you need? Dying has to mean something, that's why it's called dying.

That's what Reraise is, your second chance. You have to fail at some point, that's called experience.

[Flunklesnarkin]

1) If either you or your healer die, more than once (thus resulting in no RR). You failed. Get over it.

2) If you didn't bring a healer and die, more than once (thus resulting in no RR) or die once without having RR. You failed the moment you left unprepared. Get over it.

If you can't comprehend how this quote is related to the topic.. you are dumb.. FACT

[lowkey]

Phoenix downs would be useful even in the presence of reraise. Fact.

Sneak/invisible are useful even in the presence of silent oils/prism powders. Fact.

It's still your place to come prepared at all times, and failing to do so habitually, will cause people, especially mages to hate you, and eventually exclude you. Being prepared means oils, powders, rr items, whatever misc. medicines that may be required, getting cut scenes and other soloable stuff done on your own time, etc. No one wants to hold your hand. Fact.

[Coldbrand]

Agreed. Good thing Phoenix Downs would enhance your ability to prepare!

[Krashport]

Sneak/invisible are useful even in the presence of silent oils/prism powders. Fact.


Having options. Fact. ^^

[Zyeriis]

U failed lol omg xD so randum

I'm glad you're not a game designer, and sorry you expect everything to go smoothly. A large part of the fun in earlier FF games is managing weakened party members and trying to stabilize mid fight via raise/phoenix down etc. Have you played them? I strongly doubt there weren't boss fights that didn't present this situation to you, unless you just grind out for hours before progressing in each title.

Here an example of this kind of gameplay being exciting in really oldschool FFXI as proof of concept that the afforementioned gameplay can exist in the XI environment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJQLCN_qqFY
I have to call you an idiot again? Cause I will. You're the one who wants the phoenix downs to extend your ability to stay in the fight, to smooth out a process of never failing. Phoenix downs, in FFXI, wouldn't create the environment you are looking for as it already exists through reraise. It would only add an extra layer of not failing, which is dumb, the game is already lost a great deal of difficulty.

[Coldbrand]

So adding complexity is dumbing it down? Nice argument there champ. Did you know that as a result of adding in the oldschool stabilize via raise/reraise/phoenix down gameplay they could make newer fights designed with that functionality in mind harder? Ouch.

[Flunklesnarkin]

So adding complexity is dumbing it down? Nice argument there champ. Did you know that as a result of adding in the oldschool stabilize via raise/reraise/phoenix down gameplay they could make newer fights designed with that functionality in mind harder? Ouch.

Redundancy =/= complexity .. Fact

Failing to plan for reraise/healing is noobish.. Fact

[Alderin]

Just make it a high level Alchemy craft that you cannot buy from NPC's. Requires Fire Crystal, Phoenix Feather, Black Ink and Bomb Ash. Make Phoenix Feathers drop off certain regular mobs in Abyssea, as Bomb Ash isn't the most common thing to come across - it would also increase the price of them a bit.

Make the materials for the synth reasonably difficult to obtain, keeping the prices on AH reasonably high, and people won't spam them - but will use them for emergencies. Stackable to 12, not 99.

As much as it would be nice to have stackable meds to 99, it would shoot Alchemists in the foot and reduce the value of items like Echo Drops and Holy Water far too much to be worth it. (Now that is a different topic that belongs on a different thread, but no meds should be stackable to 99. Including these Phoenix Downs.)

[Coldbrand]

Redundancy =/= complexity .. Fact

Failing to plan for reraise/healing is noobish.. Fact

Phoenix Downs and Raise being in the same game isn't really redundant, unless you think every single other FF game ever made has redundant gameplay options. Trying to stabilize in an intense boss fight in those games was a very fine balance that some might consider complex especially considering the various status effects and conditions the enemies who usually put you in that spot can induce.

Also, weren't you the one crying when you thought I was making judgements about players skill levels earlier? And now you're saying that unless you have a WHM stapled to your side you're a "noob"? I'm not sure I follow. And if you're such a fan of preparation, let me tell you, phoenix downs have been an integral part of preparation in every other flagship title in the entire franchise, ask anyone who's actually played them and understands their inherent value which seems to be beyond you!

[Zyeriis]

So adding complexity is dumbing it down? Nice argument there champ. Did you know that as a result of adding in the oldschool stabilize via raise/reraise/phoenix down gameplay they could make newer fights designed with that functionality in mind harder? Ouch.
Stating opinion as fact again.
You're not adding complexity, don't know where you got that silly idea. "Oh I can get up again, that's complex!" No, that's an easy button.
Battles where you have no choice but death and battles where you have the possibility to die are not one and the same. You can argue my point that dying is part of the game, in some pathetic attempt to counter this but, you'll have missed the difference. Difficulty should be in staying alive, with the already in place systems to back you up, should you die. Adding another one, is just putting a net under a net, that is under a net.

That "functionality" is a gimmick at best....Champ.

[Zyeriis]

Phoenix Downs and Raise being in the same game isn't really redundant, unless you think every single other FF game ever made has redundant gameplay options. Trying to stabilize in an intense boss fight in those games was a very fine balance that some might consider complex especially considering the various status effects and conditions the enemies who usually put you in that spot can induce.

Also, weren't you the one crying when you thought I was making judgements about players skill levels earlier? And now you're saying that unless you have a WHM stapled to your side you're a "noob"? I'm not sure I follow. And if you're such a fan of preparation, let me tell you, phoenix downs have been an integral part of preparation in every other flagship title in the entire franchise, ask anyone who's actually played them and understands their inherent value which seems to be beyond you!

Played em all, there's only one that I didn't finish (single player ones anyway). Oh, and you're wrong (::shocked face::) There's another Final Fantasy game that does not have phoenix downs. It's also an online, multiplayer one as well. It's called Final Fantasy XIV. Sure, the game sucks but, you're still wrong.

[Coldbrand]

Stating opinion as fact again.
You're not adding complexity, don't know where you got that silly idea. "Oh I can get up again, that's complex!" No, that's an easy button.
Battles where you have no choice but death and battles where you have the possibility to die are not one and the same. You can argue my point that dying is part of the game, in some pathetic attempt to counter this but, you'll have missed the difference. Difficulty should be in staying alive, with the already in place systems to back you up, should you die. Adding another one, is just putting a net under a net, that is under a net.

That "functionality" is a gimmick at best....Champ.

If you don't like how I state my opinions than don't read them. Add me to your ignore list, anyone who's played older FF games knows how difficult stabilizing a party is, and that's something only really possible on the same level when a tiny handful of caster jobs no longer have the monopoly on bringing people back up. Those fights added difficulty because it meant not being able to fight at anywhere near full capacity, restrictions are a form of difficulty, that's why places like Salvage exist.

At this point your phobia of the addition of the item leads me to believe perhaps you're just a White Mage who fears any potential competition on the monopoly that is your necessary presence in all events. Dancers are healers, you can bring them and still not have what you need for certain lengthier battles since they can't raise. If the Chemist job which is possibly the most requested new job on these forums were added, they aren't magically inclined, yet are considered a healer, should every non magical job not be able to ressurect players? Phoenix Downs have existed and been loved since FF1, sorry you feel they shouldn't be included because you think reraise is the pinnacle of preparedness and that all difficulty is centered around being able to get up again a single time.

[Alderin]

Not sure if you guys are forgetting the "Auto-Life" spell in various other FF's as well.

That is another form of Reraise.

So what's wrong with adding downs? I don't see any valid points to the arguments so far. Would also massively help those of us who still do the odd level-sync party where "Raise" isn't an option.

There are very little ways I believe that Phoenix Downs can be abused. Make the craft level high, not purchasable via an NPC and the materials required for the synth have to be farmed. This keeps the price high, so people won't just throw it on anyone they see that is dead.

Yes of course it is more ideal to have Reraise, and in a sense there aren't too many cases where you won't have it on. However if your out doing Abyssea things, lets say for example - you joined a shout PT for Raja (we all know how terrible they end up), your alliance procs red, 3/4 of the alliance is dead, and your lying on the ground waiting for the 4 mages that are still alive to run around and raise everyone while they have weakness timers?

Oh woops, Raja died and you didn't get his Atma because the mages were too busy raising everyone. Sob story, too bad... right?

Not with Phoenix Downs - The mages can raise one person, that one person can run around and get someone else with a Phoenix Down, that next person can go grab another person... Etc.

Is that truly abusing the system? I see Phoenix Downs would have their place.

[Zyeriis]

If you don't like how I state my opinions than don't read them. Add me to your ignore list, anyone who's played older FF games knows how difficult stabilizing a party is, and that's something only really possible on the same level when a tiny handful of caster jobs no longer have the monopoly on bringing people back up. Those fights added difficulty because it meant not being able to fight at anywhere near full capacity, restrictions are a form of difficulty, that's why places like Salvage exist.

At this point your phobia of the addition of the item leads me to believe perhaps you're just a White Mage who fears any potential competition on the monopoly that is your necessary presence in all events. Dancers are healers, you can bring them and still not have what you need for certain lengthier battles since they can't raise. If the Chemist job which is possibly the most requested new job on these forums were added, they aren't magically inclined, yet are considered a healer, should every non magical job not be able to ressurect players? Phoenix Downs have existed and been loved since FF1, sorry you feel they shouldn't be included because you think reraise is the pinnacle of preparedness and that all difficulty is centered around being able to get up again a single time.
That post is so full of wrong it's making my eyes bleed. I have no mage jobs, at all, closest thing is Paladin.
And yes, you are basically trying to push all healing mages out of events with this. Great, more useless jobs. Great idea.
Mages have been a staple of every final fantasy game as well (in fact more if you read my other post that points out that there's another final fantasy game that doesn't have phoenix downs).

You seem to forget that you aren't adding restrictions, you want to lift them by adding another safety net. If you do not understand this, I will re-iterate the fact that you're an idiot. Also, none of the primary ideas of the OP were about larger scale events, they were about smaller parties. My counter arguments were about the exploitation of said item in those larger events.

Back to the original topic of having phoenix downs for teams as small as 2. Bring RR and one of you have Raise. If you cannot accomplish this and still win, you need more people (heaven forbid). Again, I see absolutely no reason for this stupid easy button/final layer of netting being added.

[Coldbrand]

God forbid they ever tweak the AI to specifically hunt healers for certain more cunning monsters who can play around enmity properties.

Edit:
That post is so full of wrong it's making my eyes bleed. I have no mage jobs, at all, closest thing is Paladin.
And yes, you are basically trying to push all healing mages out of events with this. Great, more useless jobs. Great idea.
Mages have been a staple of every final fantasy game as well (in fact more if you read my other post that points out that there's another final fantasy game that doesn't have phoenix downs).

You seem to forget that you aren't adding restrictions, you want to lift them by adding another safety net. If you do not understand this, I will re-iterate the fact that you're an idiot. Also, none of the primary ideas of the OP were about larger scale events, they were about smaller parties. My counter arguments were about the exploitation of said item in those larger events.

Back to the original topic of having phoenix downs for teams as small as 2. Bring RR and one of you have Raise. If you cannot accomplish this and still win, you need more people (heaven forbid). Again, I see absolutely no reason for this stupid easy button/final layer of netting being added.

Here's a conundrum for you, phoenix downs don't eliminate the need for the healer role in the games that have them, and unless you can prove me wrong, they wouldn't in this one either.

Also, I love how you think Phoenix Downs would suddenly make the game "stupid easy". Care to illustrate your point further? Let's say you had Phoenix Downs to face Absolute Virtue back during the 75 cap. Tell me how their implementation would make it so you'd beat him. Let's go with rare/ex ones for this mental exercise.

[Zyeriis]

Not sure if you guys are forgetting the "Auto-Life" spell in various other FF's as well.

That is another form of Reraise.

So what's wrong with adding downs? I don't see any valid points to the arguments so far. Would also massively help those of us who still do the odd level-sync party where "Raise" isn't an option.

There are very little ways I believe that Phoenix Downs can be abused. Make the craft level high, not purchasable via an NPC and the materials required for the synth have to be farmed. This keeps the price high, so people won't just throw it on anyone they see that is dead.

Yes of course it is more ideal to have Reraise, and in a sense there aren't too many cases where you won't have it on. However if your out doing Abyssea things, lets say for example - you joined a shout PT for Raja (we all know how terrible they end up), your alliance procs red, 3/4 of the alliance is dead, and your lying on the ground waiting for the 4 mages that are still alive to run around and raise everyone while they have weakness timers?

Oh woops, Raja died and you didn't get his Atma because the mages were too busy raising everyone. Sob story, too bad... right?

Not with Phoenix Downs - The mages can raise one person, that one person can run around and get someone else with a Phoenix Down, that next person can go grab another person... Etc.

Is that truly abusing the system? I see Phoenix Downs would have their place.

Have to fail at some point. No point in playing something you always win.

[Flunklesnarkin]

God forbid they ever tweak the AI to specifically hunt healers for certain more cunning monsters who can play around enmity properties.

Can't tweak the AI.. it would anger the unicorn prince.. Fact

Also something about enmity.. [I don't speak english].. Fact

[Alderin]

Have to fail at some point. No point in playing something you always win.

This game can't be won - cause there is no ending. Phoenix Downs would not gimp the system.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

This game can't be won - cause there is no ending. Phoenix Downs would not gimp the system.No. But you can do everything.

[Coldbrand]

Not humanly possible. Unless you're aware of a player with each relic mythic and empyrean.

[Zyeriis]

This game can't be won - cause there is no ending. Phoenix Downs would not gimp the system.
...what the hell are you talking about? Win, as in events/battles? I did not say the words "complete the game". I'm really lost as to what you are talking about. If you won the game...then there also would be no point in continuing to play? ::baffled face:: *scratches head* Phoenix downs would remove the ability to fail (a battlefield, a fight against a NM, etc.). If they were expensive, then they wouldn't serve much use especially not the use the OP wanted. No point in adding something essentially useless to the game.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Not humanly possible. Unless you're aware of a player with each relic mythic and empyrean.They will exist soon enough.

[Coldbrand]

They will exist soon enough.
Strongly doubtful, even if relics become easy enough to obtain that someone might accumulate each of them, the mythics are still incredibly, incredibly time consuming.

Phoenix downs do NOT remove the ability to fail, especially in the event that they were rare/ex. Oh and here's an idea, most really good items already put you on a cooldown for their usage, heaven forbid SE did that for them too, you know, kind of like my original post which stated that SE should work out the details in that regard?

If they remove the ability to fail, please, complete my mental exercise I presented for you and demonstrate how they'd present the ability to defeat Absolute Virtue during the 75 cap era.

[Zyeriis]

Strongly doubtful, even if relics become easy enough to obtain that someone might accumulate each of them, the mythics are still incredibly, incredibly time consuming.

Phoenix downs do NOT remove the ability to fail, especially in the event that they were rare/ex. Oh and here's an idea, most really good items already put you on a cooldown for their usage, heaven forbid SE did that for them too, you know, kind of like my original post which stated that SE should work out the details in that regard?

In the end, you still want an extra life. That doesn't change.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

In the end, you still want an extra life.I think the replacement is needed already.

[Coldbrand]

In the end, you still want an extra life. That doesn't change.

My Spider-Sense is tingling! It tells me...that's the whole point of this thread!

[Zyeriis]

Actually let me rephrase before I go to sleep.

Doing it that way, would completely nullify your argument regarding adding "complexity" to the game and making new "harder" enemies with it, wouldn't be possible. You are changing your stance on the matter to avoid being wrong (and it going to fail either way0. If they were expensive, then they would not serve the very purpose you want to adamantly defend: using them a lot in battle. Which as you said, is a staple of all the single player final fantasy games. Making them rare/ex also nullifies this staple and your argument. If they were cheap, and non rare-ex they would be overpowered and stupid. If they were cheap and rare/ex, they'd still only be one use things, which is different from what you were arguing. If they were expensive and non rare/ex, they would still be overpowered but they would only be usable by people who are already decked out, making them relatively useless.

Anyway, going to sleep, it's 5:30 am....sun's gonna be up soon...

[Coldbrand]

How does having them be rare/ex nullify their staple status? As soon as they appear in the game that condition has been met.

I'm not moving any goalposts. I want them in. I want alternatives to casters with raise. I want stabilizing wars mid-boss fight like in all the other games in the franchise. I've been against them being stackable to 99 which you put in my mouth in the first place.

Haven't changed on any of these stances.

Sorry you haven't played the other FF games, but as anyone who has can attest, a lot of those boss fights were WAY more intense than your average NM or even CS boss fight, and one excuse to present harder fights would be making it so that you could get up the healer once per battle and thus not be dead the second they go down. There's no need for quotations about any of those concepts which are hardly theoretical since they exist in the rest of the franchise and have done so for more than a decade.

Their being expensive is someone else's argument, which I am against. That'd make them pointless like the majority of the other items alchemist produce simply from the standpoint that they're too costly to be used regularly.

Anyhow, I'm not too concerned since SE seems to be on my side of things as is evidenced by almost all new content providing players with temp. items freely which make the game function more like a traditional FF. (Besieged, Campaign, Abyssea)

[Zyeriis]

How does having them be rare/ex nullify their staple status? As soon as they appear in the game that condition has been met.

I'm not moving any goalposts. I want them in. I want alternatives to casters with raise. I want stabilizing wars mid-boss fight like in all the other games in the franchise. I've been against them being stackable to 99 which you put in my mouth in the first place.

Haven't changed on any of these stances.

Sorry you haven't played the other FF games, but as anyone who has can attest, a lot of those boss fights were WAY more intense than your average NM or even CS boss fight, and one excuse to present harder fights would be making it so that you could get up the healer once per battle and thus not be dead the second they go down. There's no need for quotations about any of those concepts which are hardly theoretical since they exist in the rest of the franchise and have done so for more than a decade.

Their being expensive is someone else's argument, which I am against. That'd make them pointless like the majority of the other items alchemist produce simply from the standpoint that they're too costly to be used regularly.

Anyhow, I'm not too concerned since SE seems to be on my side of things as is evidenced by almost all new content providing players with temp. items freely which make the game function more like a traditional FF. (Besieged, Campaign, Abyssea)

ts;dr (like tl;dr but worse)

[Vangoh]

MY GOD PEOPLE!!!!! Stop the fighting!!! I had to go to sleep 'cause I was sleepy but....has any of the con-phoenix down has stated a reason why is a bad idea or they just say "is unnecessary and annoying" that's all I hear, in contrast to that I just made a quick reading on the post and some dude gave a good point. Why are there oils/powders when there is already sneak/invis? Why are there antidotes when there are poisona/paralyna/etc? So is just natural to have a phoenix down in the game to raise other people. I don't see how this would create a black hole in the universe and suck it all in.

AND FOR THE RECORD, I NEVER EVER! Said anything about reraising one self I strictly and specifically said that a Phoenix Down would only serve to the purpose of raising ANOTHER person when they're down. And for those who still don't know what a Phoenix Down is, it's an item from previous Final Fantasys' that would do the same effect as the spell Life(which is called Raise in FFXI) and would revive from KO to whoever was down without the need of using mp or requiring a mage's presence to do so.

[Zyeriis]

MY GOD PEOPLE!!!!! Stop the fighting!!! I had to go to sleep 'cause I was sleepy but....has any of the con-phoenix down has stated a reason why is a bad idea or they just say "is unnecessary and annoying" that's all I hear, in contrast to that I just made a quick reading on the post and some dude gave a good point. Why are there oils/powders when there is already sneak/invis? Why are there antidotes when there are poisona/paralyna/etc? So is just natural to have a phoenix down in the game to raise other people. I don't see how this would create a black hole in the universe and suck it all in.

AND FOR THE RECORD, I NEVER EVER! Said anything about reraising one self I strictly and specifically said that a Phoenix Down would only serve to the purpose of raising ANOTHER person when they're down. And for those who still don't know what a Phoenix Down is, it's an item from previous Final Fantasys' that would do the same effect as the spell Life(which is called Raise in FFXI) and would revive from KO to whoever was down without the need of using mp or requiring a mage's presence to do so.

1) Actually read the posts.
2) Powders/Oils are self target.
3) Antidotes are self target.
4) Your second post has multiple instances of talking about reraise.
5) I'm not getting into how pointless or overpowered this would be, again, if you cannot see it by now, I pity you.

[Vangoh]

4) Your second post has multiple instances of talking about reraise.

No foo! To make it short what my second post meant was "Who the hell is talking about reraise? forget reraise and focus on the topic of the thread" people started with reraise on the post before me you just read it wrong, get it right and don't twist what I said. And yes those items are self targeted but they also exist for the same purpose that their respective derived spell. And no, as I said you people only say how unnecessary the item is and for some reason don't back up your responses only say is no good, gimme a good why not.

[Zyeriis]

No foo! To make it short what my second post meant was "Who the hell is talking about reraise? forget reraise and focus on the topic of the thread" people started with reraise on the post before me you just read it wrong, get it right and don't twist what I said. And yes those items are self targeted but they also exist for the same purpose that their respective derived spell. And no, as I said you people only say how unnecessary the item is and for some reason don't back up your responses only say is no good, gimme a good why not.
Refer to #1. Not getting into this again.

[InfamousDS]

For Clarification:

Raise: Available to WHM and SCH at level 25. RDM and PLD @ 50+. As a subjob spell for 50+.
Reraise: Available to WHM and SCH at level 25. No other jobs. As a subjob spell @ 50+.
Reraise Scroll: 1-time use only, not the easiest item to reacquire mid-event.
Reraise Equipment: Varied, but mostly expensive for ~10 charges. While more than 1 can be carried, the equipment slot must be changed in order to be used. Additionally, in high-death situations, the recast may not be available.
Reraise Items: Generally hard to acquire, almost always (R), 1-time use.

While it is physically possible to carry as many as 4 or more RR means at any given time, it is not economic. 4 inventory slots are taken, and the cost (of time or gil) outweighs the gain. A Phoenix Down, in its purest form, (i.e the way they were used in other games) would allow the other 18 jobs to raise before level 50. It would also allow more fluid events, because the designated healers would not have to take time casting a relative long spell while the monster deals constant high damage (thus taking the chance of another player dying). If 4 important people are dead in an alliance of 18, but you only have 3 main heal and 2 support heal (support are both Dancer), then all your heavy healers are preoccupied. As a career Dancer, I can say safely that while we have the ability to heal well, the recast timers on Cure are much more forgiving in high-tension situations like the above. A Phoenix Down would allow anyone else to assist in raising, taking away the temporary strain on the healers, and may even prevent further death.