[Suggestion] Consolidating Equip Macros

[Westyle]

This is issue is pretty much a dead horse now but I'm sure there has to be some sort of solution. I have 2 ideas of how this can be addressed.

1. Multiple equips in one line: This is pretty straightforward, though I'm not sure if the system in place can handle multiple actions in a single line. It would look something like this: /equip head "piece" body "piece" ear1 "piece" feet "piece"
The part names could also be abbreviated to allow more stuff to fit in a single line; i.e. number the boxes 1-16.

2. A separate menu: This idea is to, like macros, give us a book of equips. This is already done for job changing, so why not give us some extra control over it? You could name each equipment set and then in your macro just type: /equip "TP Gear"
That way you could change all 16 pieces in a single line.

[Smeggles]

2. A separate menu: This idea is to, like macros, give us a book of equips. This is already done for job changing, so why not give us some extra control over it? You could name each equipment set and then in your macro just type: /equip "TP Gear"
That way you could change all 16 pieces in a single line.

DO WANT!!!!!!

[Volarione]

I would love this.

[katiekat]

yes pleas i liked it as well

[Garota]

Hmmm... I'm sure they'll tell us soon after they drop the PS2, "We apologize for any inconveniences, but this will not be possible, Xbox 360 limitations."

[Dann]

Please sweet gods of SE add this!
Would clean up my summoner macros on my xbox sooo much!

[Demon6324236]

Hmmm... I'm sure they'll tell us soon after they drop the PS2, "We apologize for any inconveniences, but this will not be possible, Xbox 360 limitations."

No longer a possible viable excuse. Due to the new UI I expect players to do something about macros anyways if possible, but because of the new UI they cant really say another console can limit it anymore.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Go go PC only!

[Rosina]

don't think SE gonna do this.. they did not intend for yall to gear swap mid battle. They fully admited this and do not infact allow gear swaping in battle in ffxiv. What I said is the common reply when asked for gear swaping mid battle on the ff14 forums.

Idc either way just saying what SE said on the ff14 forums.

[Rezeak]

they clearly do in FFXI since we have Multiple elemental staves, and gear for certain abilities not to mention tp gear that is bad for WSes and WS gear that is bad for tping.

Either was Being able to put gear sets onto one line would help so much

[Zerich]

don't think SE gonna do this.. they did not intend for yall to gear swap mid battle. They fully admited this and do not infact allow gear swaping in battle in ffxiv. What I said is the common reply when asked for gear swaping mid battle on the ff14 forums.

Idc either way just saying what SE said on the ff14 forums.

those are two different games. wrong opinion is wrong.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m78rolEITu1r3jo54.jpg

[Rosina]

those are two different games. wrong opinion is wrong.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m78rolEITu1r3jo54.jpg

hey smart one they by the same company. And the had to work the game around gear swaping since they couldn't just prevent it. Just sharing what the devs (who work on both games in some cases) and said company (who runs both games) have started


guess you miss the "idc either way" bit...


id like to add that opinions are not facts.

they can't be wrong, as it is a personal observation.

[Westyle]

They didn't intend NIN to tank either, but they started making NIN tank gear.

[Rosina]

They didn't intend NIN to tank either, but they started making NIN tank gear.

cuz they went with it... some unintended work great.... some they resent... gear swaping is one they resent content is harder to make around it as you need to keep the level of challange high which then turns into enforcement cuz you "NEED" to gear swap.

fyi ffxiv had a debuff when u change gear in passive mode it lasts 30 secons and is called "itchy" stats are down for 30 seconds.

[Zerich]

cuz they went with it... some unintended work great.... some they resent... gear swaping is one they resent content is harder to make around it as you need to keep the level of challange high which then turns into enforcement cuz you "NEED" to gear swap.

fyi ffxiv had a debuff when u change gear in passive mode it lasts 30 secons and is called "itchy" stats are down for 30 seconds.

Could you verify your claims with a quote?

[Nala]

Dip out now rosina, your anti gear swaping policy is yours alone, the rest of us choose to be better players then you.

[Volarione]

I myself don't gearswap in battle but I do use different jobs and would like to be able to macro my gear sets because I change jobs often. Heck if you made the pallet like this you could write up macros that can be called up by other macros in it.

[tyrantsyn]

Honestly I don't understand how it all works, Just seems odd to me that you can punch out 2 to 3 macro's in a roll "rapid fire like" in order to get the desire effect and yet they just couldn't set it up so that 1 macro has 20 line's in it. In the end it's the same effect just less trouble.

Whether or not the system was never meant to be use as so with gear swaps is kind of irrelevant. It's a common use for the command structure at this point. And if it was the other way around Most gear would be completely pointless. And it doesn't surprise me that there's a delay in gear swap's in 14. You literally swapping a job on the fly. Would be a little game breaking to go from a shadow tank nin to your own whm healer and than back again with no penalty.

Anyways, would love to see it address before the new expansion.

[Rosina]

said threads are no longer viewable or I would. I was just sharing what i read

I DO NOT CARE EITHER WAY

or did everyone miss that part


Dip out now rosina, your anti gear swaping policy is yours alone, the rest of us choose to be better players then you.

and the only ones who think i am anti gear swap is you guys.
I choose not to do it to the extremies, never said you guys couldn't.

Big difference.

I never once said for SE to take out gear swaping from battle.

But do some basic logic.... as I tried pointing out. If SE was for gear swaping, why would ffxiv have 1) the ability to not do it in battle 2) a debuff when u switch gear.

When is logic going to apply?

But really i am just stating what i read and seen Made my opinion. But infact said i do not care either way.

I have a right to state my opinion for and against things. What I choose to do in game, how I choose to play shouldn't matter. I agree to disagree.

All i said was i do not think SE will do it.

[Zerich]

said threads are no longer viewable or I would. I was just sharing what i read

I DO NOT CARE EITHER WAY

or did everyone miss that part

Sharing what you thought you read in 14's forums...this is 11, they are two completely different games.

Did you miss that part?

[Rosina]

Sharing what you thought you read in 14's forums...this is 11, they are two completely different games.

Did you miss that part?

they made by the same company and share similar developers....

and one is called 11 one is called 14. share the same name. Oh and they play the same...

The gear delay isn't intended actually there is massive lag based around server and engine confliction. Anything u do in game is lagged up.

Also gear isn't useless, if gear swap wasn't allowed in this game they would still make gear. What you call situational gear/ side grade. Would be for personal choices on how u play ur job. Ie like every rpg

like instead of having gear sets, you would have to pick and choose what style you would want pre battle. Do u wanna be a faster? or do you want to hit harder? do you wanna focus on ws dmg? or base weapon dmg?

atm with having gear sets we can have it all.. which takes out the choice and makes us 100%.

[Rosina]

(text limit)
You guys worry too much on how I personally choose to play. And really need to stop. I'm not doing anything bad other then putting my 2 cents based around how SE is using common logic based on how each of their MMo is run.

but reality is i do not care. If this makes the game more fun for yall go for it.
I didn't say we shouldn't have it...

hell they should just transplanys ffxiv soon to be put in manaquin system which pretty much does what ur asking for.

[Zerich]

they made by the same company and share similar developers....

and one is called 11 one is called 14. share the same name. Oh and they play the same...

The gear delay isn't intended actually there is massive lag based around server and engine confliction. Anything u do in game is lagged up.

Also gear isn't useless, if gear swap wasn't allowed in this game they would still make gear. What you call situational gear/ side grade. Would be for personal choices on how u play ur job. Ie like every rpg

like instead of having gear sets, you would have to pick and choose what style you would want pre battle. Do u wanna be a faster? or do you want to hit harder? do you wanna focus on ws dmg? or base weapon dmg?

atm with having gear sets we can have it all.. which takes out the choice and makes us 100%.

So you missed it. Again. :(

Final Fantasy XI online
Final Fantasy XIV online
I know it's a stretch, but really look at them and try to think.

Also, take five goddamn seconds to look over your grammar.

And there are optimal ways to play jobs.
Let's use BLM for an example: It is optimal (with gear available) to nuke mobs who are resistant to physical damage; this is because of it's high native Magic attack bonus traits and INT. However, it also can reach high levels of cure potency and proficiency, if you gear it so. Would anyone ever invite BLM to an event to act as the main healer? No, not a chance in hell.

A good player (in Final Fantasy XI) will carry around various gear to mix and match as different "sets" to be swapped whenever the situation calls for it.

So please, stop referencing threads with irrelevant information about a game you know little about, in a thread for another game that you subsequently know even less about. :(

But adding to the discussion; we needed these consolidated macros a long time ago. It's really sad that you have to mash 3-ish macros to do anything effectively.

[tyrantsyn]

Some ppl only see what they want to see so they can pitch a fit, ignore it, and move on. I understood what you where talking about in your first post Rosina. At no point did I see you say I hate gears swaps and there wrong wrong wrong. Just that they were never intended to work like that originally. I think that's what got everyone's panties in a bunch.

[Kaelthas]

This is issue is pretty much a dead horse now but I'm sure there has to be some sort of solution. I have 2 ideas of how this can be addressed.

1. Multiple equips in one line: This is pretty straightforward, though I'm not sure if the system in place can handle multiple actions in a single line. It would look something like this: /equip head "piece" body "piece" ear1 "piece" feet "piece"
The part names could also be abbreviated to allow more stuff to fit in a single line; i.e. number the boxes 1-16.

2. A separate menu: This idea is to, like macros, give us a book of equips. This is already done for job changing, so why not give us some extra control over it? You could name each equipment set and then in your macro just type: /equip "TP Gear"
That way you could change all 16 pieces in a single line.

Some really good ideas here, I would like these to be implemented ^^

I had an idea that was similar to option 1, in that you could add something like "/next macro" or "<next macro>" similar to how they did the "wait" commands. This would mean that instead of pressing 3 macros to change to your TPing gear, you could just press the 1 macro and they would be linked together.

Here's an example:

(SAM TP 1)
/equip ammo "Hagneia Stone"
/equip head "Unkai Kabuto +2"
/equip neck "Unkai Nodawa"
/equip ear1 "Brutal Earring"
/equip ear2 "Unkai Mimikazari"
/next macro

(SAM TP 2)
/equip body "Unkai Domaru +2"
/equip hands "Tenryu Tekko +1"
/equip ring1 "Rajas Ring"
/equip ring2 "Tyrant's Ring"
/equip back "Atheling Mantle"
/next macro

(SAM TP 3)
/equip waist "Goading Belt"
/equip legs "Unkai Haidate +2
/equip feet "Ace's Leggings"

[Demon6324236]

I will say again they will not make macros link, cycle, repeat, or anything of the sort. That would create to many people doing bot-like activities. Skilling magic for instance would become easy, use macros that link together to make a chain that never stops and skills you while you can afk. Same thing to an extent can be done with claiming or with ??? pops, make a macro with /targetnpc then /ja provoke <t> and you get a claim bot that always will claim whatever is infront of you so long as nothing else is in the way. You can do the same with ???s just a little different.

I am all for the idea of making macro lines be able to do this, and would love macros themselves to have more lines in general. Sadly cycling, linking, or things like them will probably never happen.

[cidbahamut]

Their refusal to improve the in-game macro system has done absolutely nothing to deter people from "doing bot-like activities".

Hands up everyone who has witnessed a mage standing around doing nothing but repeatedly casting bar-spells or a Summoner summoning pets and releasing them ad nauseum.

[Demon6324236]

Their refusal to improve the in-game macro system has done absolutely nothing to deter people from "doing bot-like activities".

Hands up everyone who has witnessed a mage standing around doing nothing but repeatedly casting bar-spells or a Summoner summoning pets and releasing them ad nauseum.

Didn't say it was a good reason but its why SE wont do it I'm sure. For now either you bot or you sit there bored for hours while you do it. If your botting it then your cheating, if your sitting there bored then SE wins. If SE upgraded our macros then we wouldn't need to cheat or be bored because they would be basically condoning the act of sitting in 1 spot spamming spells while afk.

[FrankReynolds]

SE actually created the whole gear swapping phenomenon by creating many pieces of gear that are only useful one particular action or another and then allowing (They could stop us if they wanted) us to swap them. They did this so that we would have to go after more different pieces and thus, do more different events, for longer periods. They need us to gear swap. If we didn't, most of the games content would be pointless.

On a side note: Didn't they mention something about adding the ability for users to create their own plug-ins for FFXI in a future update? I'm sure the gurus that work on spellcast would be willing to work with them to create an SE sanctioned version that is dumbed down to where it just does basic gear / spell stuff.

[Rosina]

All Se did was add gear for choices. How you use the gear is up to yall.
Only a select few believe in the "one gear for all" mantality. Some still play the "old school" rpg way by making choices.

But w/e I do think the manniquin system ffxiv is adding could work here instead of going thru gear macros or chaining macros.
Pretty much you get the gear slot screen and put in ur gear. Then save it. Each job gets 10 sets.
then all u do is
/man "set 1" <me> <wait 1>

/ja <instert job ability here>

or /ma <instert spell here

or /ws <insert ws here>

this way u can swap out full sets to max out each skill 10fold with all the gear u have/can use. And it saves in macro spaces.

[Demon6324236]

Didn't they mention something about adding the ability for users to create their own plug-ins for FFXI in a future update?

For the new UI yes.

[Rosina]

Some ppl only see what they want to see so they can pitch a fit, ignore it, and move on. I understood what you where talking about in your first post Rosina. At no point did I see you say I hate gears swaps and there wrong wrong wrong. Just that they were never intended to work like that originally. I think that's what got everyone's panties in a bunch.

ya all they want it do rag on me for notr playing like them... like the so and so they are. I'm more then used to it. I even got a lil stakler out of it ^^ woo.

[Nala]

So they wanted you to nuke in a light staff because you choose not to use optimal gear for the action required.

[SpankWustler]

I own a car and a truck.

Both are made by Toyota. Both have internal combustion engines and four wheels. Both smell like a mixture of my dog and that taco I dropped under the passenger seat three or four months ago.

Time to load five hundred pounds of organic fertilizer into my car!

[Nala]

sounds about right spank.

[SNK]

said threads are no longer viewable or I would. I was just sharing what i read

I DO NOT CARE EITHER WAY

or did everyone miss that part



and the only ones who think i am anti gear swap is you guys.
I choose not to do it to the extremies, never said you guys couldn't.

Big difference.

I never once said for SE to take out gear swaping from battle.

But do some basic logic.... as I tried pointing out. If SE was for gear swaping, why would ffxiv have 1) the ability to not do it in battle 2) a debuff when u switch gear.

When is logic going to apply?

But really i am just stating what i read and seen Made my opinion. But infact said i do not care either way.

I have a right to state my opinion for and against things. What I choose to do in game, how I choose to play shouldn't matter. I agree to disagree.

All i said was i do not think SE will do it.

If SE had problems with gear swapping they wouldn't have made it possible to make macros to allow you to do it. Shut up already about your stupid anti-lazy-gear-swapping comments.

[Rosina]

If SE had problems with gear swapping they wouldn't have made it possible to make macros to allow you to do it. Shut up already about your stupid anti-lazy-gear-swapping comments.

care to share why gear swap isn't allowed in ffxiv during battles? or why there is a 30 sec debuff for switch armor? all se did was make macros and make gear, what you guys did was done on ur own... and i'm not anti gear swap or lazy..

anti gear swap would mean i want its removal. i have never said so. And infact.... made a great suggestion for gear swap. I also do get gear for my classes that i personally find good, or worth getting.

you guys should shut up already with ur elistist comments.... its stupid. Its just a game for mithra sake.


@ zerich lil fyi i have seen a few blms cure in events after being asked to so. infact it was quite common in parties on garuda during the whm strike of 2005. Also.. there is a difference in what ur saying.... magic staff + spel is common sence not really optima.

[FrankReynolds]

care to share why gear swap isn't allowed in ffxiv during battles? or why there is a 30 sec debuff for switch armor? all se did was make macros and make gear, what you guys did was done on ur own... and i'm not anti gear swap or lazy..


Ever wonder why SE didn't block gear swaps during battle in ffxi? or why ffxi doesn't have a 30 second timer cool down from swaps?

Could it be because they are two completely different games?

This just in: SE only intends you to play FFXI in black and white on ultra low resolution. They just put other colors and resolutions into the menu. They didn't want you to use them. derp.

[Rosina]

Ever wonder why SE didn't block gear swaps during battle in ffxi? or why ffxi doesn't have a 30 second timer cool down from swaps?

Could it be because they are two completely different games?

This just in: SE only intends you to play FFXI in black and white on ultra low resolution. They just put other colors and resolutions into the menu. They didn't want you to use them. derp.

all i stated was what i heard/read. nothing more I made a suggestion for you guys.... focus on that and less how i play... all u guys doing are proving top SE you take this game WAY to seriously if all u gonna do is insult a person who play the game differently.

you guys can't get over the fact that i do not enjoy how you play. But here is a big news flash.. you guys do not have to play with me. I have to limit my stress due to a heart condition. I found gear hunting stressful. I didn't find it fun. So why should i torture myself/ make myself sick for a game.

[Rosina]

(Itext limit)

is it too much for you guys to comprehend that i have fun with how I play? that i may infact actually be good at how I play? none of u seen me play...
I don't step on yalls toes over your choices, why you gotta step on mine? why be a "mean girl" or "school yard bully"... there is no need to be like that. Its kinda idiotic that a person can't comment w/o being harrassed over a personal choice that infact is not effecting any of you.. so really no need to be doing what ur doing.

[Zerich]

(text limit)

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?

[Rosina]

Rosa, you are such an elitist for having the best gearz to idle in them for everything. Why are you so mean Rosina, why?!?!?!

(that's my impersonation of every idiot who calls someone an elitist)

Elitist: someone who takes a game to seriously, who thinks their shii don't stink and insults other players for not being a cookie cutter follower.

aka everyone who insulted me over my choice in opting out of gear swap.

i hate to use this.... but seriously guys get a effin life. no serious need to insult a person who you never seen play. thats what ppl under 11 do on school yards. and i'm pretty sure you guys are at least over 18. try to act like it. Please...

[Muse]

This is issue is pretty much a dead horse now but I'm sure there has to be some sort of solution. I have 2 ideas of how this can be addressed.

1. Multiple equips in one line: This is pretty straightforward, though I'm not sure if the system in place can handle multiple actions in a single line. It would look something like this: /equip head "piece" body "piece" ear1 "piece" feet "piece"
The part names could also be abbreviated to allow more stuff to fit in a single line; i.e. number the boxes 1-16.

2. A separate menu: This idea is to, like macros, give us a book of equips. This is already done for job changing, so why not give us some extra control over it? You could name each equipment set and then in your macro just type: /equip "TP Gear"
That way you could change all 16 pieces in a single line.

I like both of these ideas. The only problem I see with the first suggestion is that there is a character limit per line. This wouldn't work so well since some of the items have longer names. Especially when you get to the items with 2-4 words for the one item. Most of those are abbreviated already as well.

I'd prefer to see the second one myself, would make it nicer for those SCH's who have that 500 cap in Enhancing Magic gear to Embrava people. Along with DD's going from TP to WS sets.





don't think SE gonna do this.. they did not intend for yall to gear swap mid battle. They fully admited this and do not infact allow gear swaping in battle in ffxiv. What I said is the common reply when asked for gear swaping mid battle on the ff14 forums.

Idc either way just saying what SE said on the ff14 forums.

This is FFXI, and if they didn't intend us to gear swap mid-battle, they would have put a stop to it back when the game was released or a few years after. The game is now TEN (10) years old, and they most likely wanted us to gear swap from the begining. So, it is a moot point to bring FFXIV, or any information from it's forums, into this discussion.

Especially when mages have Obi's and Staves that are based on elemental spell types.

Please, stop talking about FFXIV in a constructive discussion about FFXI stuff.

[BigPapaBlueJay]

inb4 ballista doesn't allow gear swapping so you should never do it.

[geekgirl101]

ok let's be nice about this.

First off FFXI has way too many stats and bonuses that affect individual weaponskills and magic. We have bonuses that affect how fast a spell or ability goes off, bonuses that affect how fast we melee and how fast cooldowns are reduced by, we have bonuses that affect how accurate our spells, melee, and abilities are against mobs with high evasion, we have bonuses that affect how hard our spells and melee are against mobs with high defense, we have gear that affects individual spells, abilities and weaponskills, we have gear with magic defense bonuses when fighting against mage-types.

You would not see a summoner in FFXI fighting with Shiva while equipped with a fire staff since the elemental staves give a latent reduction in avatar perpetuation. Nor would you see a black mage solely casting in refresh and MP5 gear since they'd be missing out on bonuses that would increase the accuracy and potency of their nukes. And anyone fighting against a high level avatar-type boss without using gear that has elemental or magic protection bonuses will get their hides planted in the ground very quickly. Gear swapping in FFXI is a necessity to optimising the player's abilities and to increase survivability in individual battles.

I don't know a lot about FFXIV, but I assume the rules about spells and abilities are different and coincide more with other MMORPGs, like with World of Warcraft and Star Wars: The Old Republic, there is no "optimal" set for each ability. You simply work out what your soft caps are, aim for those in gear, and do adjustments to your gear to optimise it for ALL spells and abilities and not individual ones.

[geekgirl101]

Woah calm down people! There's no right or wrong way to play this game if you swap gear or not. Gear swapping just basically optimises your output. If you don't gear swap you won't be doing nearly as much as someone who does gear swap, so endgamers won't take you as seriously as someone who does gear swap since they'll be wanting to take down bosses faster to avoid them spamming too many abilities that could result in a potential wipe. In Abyssea though unless you're the tank and main dps it won't really matter whether you gear swap or not since you'll be there for proccing purposes only.

[Ica]

all i stated was what i heard/read. nothing more I made a suggestion for you guys.... focus on that and less how i play... all u guys doing are proving top SE you take this game WAY to seriously if all u gonna do is insult a person who play the game differently.

Stop bringing it up in every damn thread and maybe people will stop jumping all over you for it...

You seriously find a way to mention in almost every single thread that I have read with you posting in it that SE never intended for gear swaps to exist, then magically can't provide evidence of when or where it was said. Couldn't find someone to pay your 14 bill, I take it?


you guys can't get over the fact that i do not enjoy how you play. But here is a big news flash.. you guys do not have to play with me. I have to limit my stress due to a heart condition. I found gear hunting stressful. I didn't find it fun. So why should i torture myself/ make myself sick for a game.

First ADD, and now you have a heart condition as well!? Color me surprised that another ailment has mysteriously appeared when you can't take the heat.

Tell me, what do you do in game? Because if you did any sort of event in this game at all, you're most likely going to end up with some sort of gear that might better your character. What do you do with your time in game? Exp only?

[Demon6324236]

Nothing of the sort is asked here. This suggestion is very similar to this one (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/686-What-Everybody-Wants-Shorter-Simpler-Macros), and I approve of both.


Some really good ideas here, I would like these to be implemented ^^

I had an idea that was similar to option 1, in that you could add something like "/next macro" or "<next macro>" similar to how they did the "wait" commands. This would mean that instead of pressing 3 macros to change to your TPing gear, you could just press the 1 macro and they would be linked together.

Here's an example:

(SAM TP 1)
/equip ammo "Hagneia Stone"
/equip head "Unkai Kabuto +2"
/equip neck "Unkai Nodawa"
/equip ear1 "Brutal Earring"
/equip ear2 "Unkai Mimikazari"
/next macro

(SAM TP 2)
/equip body "Unkai Domaru +2"
/equip hands "Tenryu Tekko +1"
/equip ring1 "Rajas Ring"
/equip ring2 "Tyrant's Ring"
/equip back "Atheling Mantle"
/next macro

(SAM TP 3)
/equip waist "Goading Belt"
/equip legs "Unkai Haidate +2
/equip feet "Ace's Leggings"


I will say again they will not make macros link, cycle, repeat, or anything of the sort. That would create to many people doing bot-like activities. Skilling magic for instance would become easy, use macros that link together to make a chain that never stops and skills you while you can afk. Same thing to an extent can be done with claiming or with ??? pops, make a macro with /targetnpc then /ja provoke <t> and you get a claim bot that always will claim whatever is infront of you so long as nothing else is in the way. You can do the same with ???s just a little different.

I am all for the idea of making macro lines be able to do this, and would love macros themselves to have more lines in general. Sadly cycling, linking, or things like them will probably never happen.

I was directly replying to that, that is all for the 1st part. 2nd paragraph was to the thread itself.

[Sarick]

So they wanted you to nuke in a light staff because you choose not to use optimal gear for the action required.


you guys can't get over the fact that i do not enjoy how you play. But here is a big news flash.. you guys do not have to play with me. I have to limit my stress due to a heart condition. I found gear hunting stressful. I didn't find it fun. So why should i torture myself/ make myself sick for a game.

Bolded the point, slashed out the TO MUCH INFO.

On to the point. I agree with gear, I disagree with staves.

If you swap weapons mid battle there is a penalty. You lose TP.

Mages who are nuking don't really use TP. If they're fighting in the back lines swapping isn't an issue. Staff swapping is 100% intended. If it was a Warrior with a great axe that swapped his/her great axe before using a weapon skill it would definitely cause a severe penalty. They'd lose their TP completely and be unable to weapon skill.

Armor set swapping doesn't give a direct penalty such as itchy. This means SE is allowing it. There is a difference inside the same game FFXI mechanics that clearly show SE would/could punish players for gear swapping armors. They do allow swapping and apparently encourage it or there would be a punishment for it. It's simple, If they didn't intend it they would've already created a punishment for it.

Take for instance, there is a penalty in PVP fights where gear swapping will punish your character. Clearly that function was put in there to discourage swapping in the PVP mini-games. Take note this punishment doesn't exist in normal play so, it must be that way for a reason.

Since SE hasn't made armor swaps reset TP. It's fair to say that the game is functioning as intended. Until they make armor swapping reset TP or give a negative punishment gear swapping mid battle will remain acceptable.

People can argue till their butts bleed it's not going to make a bad player awesome or a good player horrible. The way you play is far more important if then your gear unless, it's awesome sauce gear that even a crappy player can swap in and be/feel special. Please remember it's just a game and if you don't like the way someone plays you can simply play as an elitist jerk and just don't associate with them. PROBLEM SOLVED!

I swap gear all the time because I know it lets me cheat beyond the average benefits for what I'm doing at that moment. I'm not going to get in trouble because it's working as intended, so says SE. It just makes me that much more powerful if I swap in enhancing gear when casting phalanx causing my skill to exceed 500 skill.

To keep with the OP, This stuff you posted was written back in 2006. It was the 3rd line in each macro set that was the gear sets. Apparently, this is what the new gear sets will be attached to.

[Arcon]

I was directly replying to that, that is all for the 1st part. 2nd paragraph was to the thread itself.

I see, my bad then.

[Vivik]

care to share why gear swap isn't allowed in ffxiv during battles?
I will share. FFXI and FFXIV are two different games. Sure, they are made by the same developer but as pointed out already Toyota makes cars and trucks.


made a great suggestion for gear swap.

I will use the same line you love to use. That is a matter if opinion. I did not think it was that great of a suggestion.


you guys should shut up already with ur elistist comments.... its stupid. Its just a game for mithra sake.

I only think it's fair to say that most of the people on this forum are not so much elitist and just wanting you to stop giving people bad advice/suggestions, which is just a front for your campaign against gear swapping.

In all honesty I can respect your opinion and even look past your blatant inability to grasp basic game mechanics. But you flip flop facts for opinions entirely way too much. I would like to see you stick to your guns just once instead of hiding behind random illnesses and learning disabilities.

[Rosina]

i'm not the one who brings it up jeezum.

and only reason i do bring up ffxi is the basic machanice are infact THE SAME. they do have macro for gear, they do what you guys called "gear swap" gear. this is an mmorpg it is no different then say D&D skills tied to stats and gear based on stats is nothing new. There is a lovely word call CHOICE. You gear up your character how u see fit based on what you wish to do. Getting the best gear you can for this style.

Example:
I enjoying playing thf with mithra, and i perfer crit hitting from behind and using my sneak attack. So i'm gonna use mostly dex gear and gear that help my Sneak attack.

the thf next to me loves hitting fast... so they going to mostly use haste gear.

and we work well as a team since i'm hitting great crits and he is hitting fast. thats the basic of basic concept.

team based play is more then 6-18 ppl killing 1 mob. its about exploiting each other strangths and covering each others weaknesses.

[cidbahamut]

Example:
I enjoying playing thf with mithra, and i perfer crit hitting from behind and using my sneak attack. So i'm gonna use mostly dex gear and gear that help my Sneak attack.

the thf next to me loves hitting fast... so they going to mostly use haste gear.


You left out the part about the third Thief who's actually a half-decent player and makes use of both.

[Kimble]

This is like saying Jak and Daxter and Uncharted are the same games because they are both made by Naughty Dog.

[Demon6324236]

This is like saying Jax and Daxter and Uncharted are the same games because they are both made by Naughty Dog.

Admittedly no, because they are nothing alike in any way.

[Kimble]

Admittedly no, because they are nothing alike in any way.

Hence comparing XIV and XI.

Hell its like saying XVII is the same as XI for that matter, lol.

[Tamoa]

Rosina, YOU are the one that time and time again purposely tell us stuff about your real life, and every time it's completely, utterly irrelevant.

You have ADD.
You have sensitive hearing.
You had a job.
You lost your job.
Your dad paid for your FFXI account.
Your boyfriend paid for your FFXI account.
Your friend currently pays for your FFXI account.
You now have a heart condition aswell.

And this is not even all of it, just what I can remember without digging up old posts.


Jesus christ I know more about your personal life, issues and ailments than I know about people I've played with every day for years. Enough already.

[Demon6324236]

Hence comparing XIV and XI.

Hell its like saying XVII is the same as XI for that matter, lol.

I will say to an extent XI & XIV have SOME similarity, J&D vs Uncharted tho no lol, either way Rosina needs to stop arguing with everyone.

[Kimble]

I will say to an extent XI & XIV have SOME similarity, J&D vs Uncharted tho no lol, either way Rosina needs to stop arguing with everyone.

That is pretty much my point. Saying how something works in one game is how it works in another game just because they are made by the same people is dumb.

[FrankReynolds]

Family Guy (http://www.2kgames.com/#/games/family-guy) and The Davinci Code (http://www.2kgames.com/#/games/the-da-vinci-code) are also clearly the same due to same makers / genre.

[Ica]

Any higher i can get physically sick. So i play ffxi with the least amount of stress i can do.

Internet forums may not be the place for you, either.

[SNK]

Which if SE did infact intend gear swaping in this game, wouldn't it be in ffxiv as well? I would assume so since its a game mech that is highly popular.

What part of two different games isn't sinking into your head?

[geekgirl101]

Rosina, I too have mental health problems which I try to avoid going into detail about since nobody wants to hear it, even though you want people to understand you and why you react certain ways. I know that with illnesses like OCD and autism you feel fixated on doing things a certain way and it frustrates the hell out of you if it doesn't go the way you want it to. I have that problem too, there's things burned in my mind that I have trouble battling against and sometimes it's overwhelming that I can't control it, and the amount of stress caused by it affects my health and causes me to go nutso on forums. My advice to you and this is from experience is to log out the game, avoid this topic or infact avoid this forum for a few days and don't be tempted to come back to this topic otherwise it'll fire you up again, go watch TV or play some other solo game for a bit, go punch a pillow to let off some tension, research deeper into the stuff you want to improve on in FFXI from other sites, maybe even note down everything you discover and then go to a forum and enquire about whether anything has changed from what you've discovered. If you want to play things a certain way that's different to what everyone does then that's entirely up to you. Just don't try telling everyone they have to play it the same way because everyone has a right to play the way they want to play, including you.

[Melisenna]

Just don't try telling everyone they have to play it the same way because everyone has a right to play the way they want to play, including you.
So true. People need to realize this.

And stop bringing rl problems into it, especially if you don't want them discussed.
Guess how no one will ever discuss your problems? By not telling them about them. This is because they won't know about them :)

[Demon6324236]

Actually if I'm not mistaken alot of people from the FFXI dev team went to FFXIV and thats why we currently suffer the small team we have now, which is why not alot is being added.

[Volarione]

If what mattered in ffxiv mattered in ffxi I wouldn't have my awsome cuddly wyvern. Which I obviously do so..... There you go.

[Demon6324236]

If what mattered in ffxiv mattered in ffxi I wouldn't have my awsome cuddly wyvern. Which I obviously do so..... There you go.

DRG has no Wyvern in FFXIV?

[Crysten]

Actually if I'm not mistaken alot of people from the FFXI dev team went to FFXIV and thats why we currently suffer the small team we have now, which is why not alot is being added.

True, but allow me to be a bit clearer.

Naoki Yoshida =/= Mizuki Ito. The grunts may be the same devs, but the people making the decisions on both games are completely different and have their own directions.

[Zerich]

Actually if I'm not mistaken alot of people from the FFXI dev team went to FFXIV and thats why we currently suffer the small team we have now, which is why not alot is being added.

Which automatically makes game mechanics in FF XI the same as game mechanics in FF XIV how?

[Demon6324236]

Which automatically makes game mechanics in FF XI the same as game mechanics in FF XIV how?

Doesn't I was simply stating the difference from what was said.

[Vivik]

DRG has no Wyvern in FFXIV?

Nope, that's why I refused to touch DRG in FFXIV when I played.

[Demon6324236]

Nope, that's why I refused to touch DRG in FFXIV when I played.

I don't blame you at all, neither would I.

[Rosina]

not all drg in ff had a pet...
but here the big shocker...

who ran ffxi first? tanaka...
who trank ffxiv first.... tanaka...
jeez u ppl...

but they do have similar game stuff.

fighting in ffxiv is hpow dancer plays out you build pt then u use skills with tp.

there are infact macros for gear, just can't change in passive mode.
ffxiv was as tanaka said @ pre launch ffxiv was (keywaord) gonna be a game that fixed the errors of ffxi. ima assume if anything the lack of ability yo change gear mid battle (which didn't have to be considering the popularoty of doing so) was one of the "fixes" not saying it was just using logic... cuz if SE thought it was a good thing... why don't ffxiv have it also since alot of the davs worked on both. And ppl do infact ask for it and are met with no's.... for both devs and community.

off topic yoshida made a choice... no pet but a strong hitting job... or add pet and weaken the job. he didn't add pet for balance purposes. its more a ff6 style drg then a ffxi version.

[Ica]

ffxiv was as tanaka said @ pre launch ffxiv was (keywaord) gonna be a game that fixed the errors of ffxi. ima assume if anything the lack of ability yo change gear mid battle (which didn't have to be considering the popularoty of doing so) was one of the "fixes" not saying it was just using logic... cuz if SE thought it was a good thing... why don't ffxiv have it also since alot of the davs worked on both. And ppl do infact ask for it and are met with no's.... for both devs and community.

Using this logic you could say that the Auction House was also a mistake since they didn't add one to 14. Is this also something SE never intended us to use in 11?

[Volarione]

off topic yoshida made a choice... no pet but a strong hitting job... or add pet and weaken the job. he didn't add pet for balance purposes. its more a ff6 style drg then a ffxi version.

The wyvern was just used as a point they aren't the same. They won't be the same. If you want to play ffxiv go to their boards as your in the wrong one.

Your logic is also screwed up because by it anything different was a mistake so wyverns-mistake auction house-mistake. Pet jobs-mistake Changing jobs at a house instead of switching your main weapon to change jobs-mistake. That's not how reality works, stop trying to force ffxi into your ffxiv shape mold.

[Baccanale]

Greetings, everyone!

First of all, I would like to thank all of you for sharing your opinions regarding the equipment macros in the game. Unfortunately, it seems that the thread lost its focus, so I will have to ask to please try to stay on topic. I know these debates can become heated, but try to keep comments civil between each other, and avoid making any comments that may be seen as insults. If the comments continue to be off-topic, we will be forced to close this thread, so please try to be considerate of others when making comments. Thanks again for your participation!

[Mizuharu]

I know a GM just said to stay on topic, but something slightly off topic here...

You CAN gear swap in FFXIV now. You have to switch from Active Mode to Passive Mode, then gear swap as such. I did that on Bard. Would DD in one body, then swap to Passive Mode to change into artifact body for Ballads. After that, I'd get my DD body back on and go back into Active Mode... So that argument is flawed Rosina.

Back on topic, I support OP's idea 100%. It sucks having to dedicate 20+ macro slots to changing armor for Weapon Skill/Store TP/Haste+/Magic(Acc/ATK/Skill/Potency/Duration/Effect)+. I mean, just going by my DRG...

~TP gear
~Drakesbane Gear
~Stardiver Gear
~Quad/Triple/Double attack+ gear (for Jump attacks)
~Wyvren HP+ gear
~Healing Breath gear
~Physical Damage Taken - gear
~Magic Damage Taken - gear

And then I'm carrying Angons and other weapons around (for VW procs or what have you)... If this was an item space thread, I'd back you on that too (I am using about 78/80 item slots of different gear for different sets.) Out of all my macros for DRG, I have 9 or so for Job Abilities/Weapon Skills, and another 20 just for changing armor. And this is just a melee job... Imagine my tanking/mage jobs. @@ Please, Devs, take the OP's advice and make this "gear swap macro book" idea a reality.

[Godofgods]

Other then giving the taru npcs a stool like they deserve, nothing would make me happier in this game but to have gear swapping 20 times in a fight eliminated. But... if they cant do that, then they should at least have a way to make switching gear not such a pain as it currently is with 5 line macros.

[0nionKn1ght]

I never understood the need for head, body, feet etc in the macros. The only place I see it useful is for ears and rings, but it's not like im going to try to put my boots on my head is it >_<!

To slightly veer into a naughtier realm, Windower does so much for this game in terms of convenience, and so far SE have been very heavy set on not using it, only to allow for alt tabbing in a very unoptimised environment.

It would be fantastic of SE to just absorb the commonly used Windower plugins (Recast, TP Viewer, DrawDistance [Seriously why do we need a 3rd party program to change graphical settings in that manner] and a few others ) to simply increase the quality of life ingame. I know we have a UI revamp coming up, but until then we are left guessing on what changes will be made. I don't know how it has been 10 years and we still don't have these simple usability options ingame.

[Reiterpallasch]

I believe the original argument was to keep the playing field 100% equal across all platforms. They seem to be slowly working away from this though, so I wouldn't say it's beyond the realm of possibility that we may get things similar to those eventually.

[Vivik]

I never understood the need for head, body, feet etc in the macros. The only place I see it useful is for ears and rings, but it's not like im going to try to put my boots on my head is it >_<!

What is this? I don't even...

[0nionKn1ght]

What is this? I don't even...

Um... thought it was pretty clear:

/equip head "Some head item"
/equip body "Epic body of the mechastats"

instead of:

/equip "Some head item"
/equip "Epic body of the mechastats"

Not sure if trolling... or just trolling though.

[cidbahamut]

Um... thought it was pretty clear:

/equip head "Some head item"
/equip body "Epic body of the mechastats"

instead of:

/equip "Some head item"
/equip "Epic body of the mechastats"

Not sure if trolling... or just trolling though.


Nah, it makes more sense now. You're advocating a change to the syntax, but the way you worded it it sounded like you were suggesting people not change specific equipment slots at all(presumably due to the blink it causes).

[katiekat]

i would like to point out that sum players (i am not one of them) don't gear swop because from a role playing standpoint they think it is redunkulis .

close friend of mine put it to me this way

"when in a battle the war would not say oh hold on Mr ork let me switch to this nice shinny Brest plate to hit you harder *2 min later* ok now i can kick your ass" he felt that it broke the Emerson in to the game so did not use it.

to me its there money and they can play and in fact have the right to play how they want while i dont see while she brings it up so much i don't know but i do think it is aleet to say anyone that does not play the game with gear swops are "noobs".

good gear and swopping gear does not a good player make. all the great gear will not make a crappy player good and bad gear will not make a grate player bad.

also stop with the mocking her for saying text limit she got caled out for posting right after her last post in a different threads started saying "text limit" so people would know why the double and sum times triple posts and what do sum of you do mock
her for doing that.

onistely this forums and the game and other mmos are like being back in high school.


having said all that as i posted on the first page this is a great idea and of the 2 i like the 2nd option and hope the Dev team will comment on it

[0nionKn1ght]

i would like to point out that sum players (i am not one of them) don't gear swop because from a role playing standpoint they think it is redunkulis .

close friend of mine put it to me this way

"when in a battle the war would not say oh hold on Mr ork let me switch to this nice shinny Brest plate to hit you harder *2 min later* ok now i can kick your ass" he felt that it broke the Emerson in to the game so did not use it.

to me its there money and they can play and in fact have the right to play how they want while i dont see while she brings it up so much i don't know but i do think it is aleet to say anyone that does not play the game with gear swops are "noobs".

good gear and swopping gear does not a good player make. all the great gear will not make a crappy player good and bad gear will not make a grate player bad.

also stop with the mocking her for saying text limit she got caled out for posting right after her last post in a different threads started saying "text limit" so people would know why the double and sum times triple posts and what do sum of you do mock
her for doing that.

onistely this forums and the game and other mmos are like being back in high school.


having said all that as i posted on the first page this is a great idea and of the 2 i like the 2nd option and hope the Dev team will comment on it

In an RP sense, switching out gear doesn't make much sense on the spot, but at the same time, her attitude would be affecting whatever party she joined. If she wanted to go solo or with other people who are doing the same then fine, but not using a core battle mechanic which would severely limit her performance and output is unfair to others in the party who are maximising their potential.

You are correct in that good gear does not make a bad player good, but gear makes a good player great, otherwise there would be no need for any gear ingame, you could effectively complete the game with your onion set.

Her attitude is no problem alone, but inflicting it on others who are putting in time and effort to macro and be the best they can be is called being a leech, and a very arrogant leech at that if thats the attitude she wants to portray.

TL:DR version - If she wants to not gear swap, she can solo, but she should not expect outcry if she did it in a group.

[Zerich]

brb, main healing on my mnk, because i'm swinging an apollo's staff.

[FrankReynolds]

i would like to point out that sum players (i am not one of them) don't gear swop because from a role playing standpoint they think it is redunkulis .

close friend of mine put it to me this way

"when in a battle the war would not say oh hold on Mr ork let me switch to this nice shinny Brest plate to hit you harder *2 min later* ok now i can kick your ass" he felt that it broke the Emerson in to the game so did not use it.

to me its there money and they can play and in fact have the right to play how they want while i dont see while she brings it up so much i don't know but i do think it is aleet to say anyone that does not play the game with gear swops are "noobs".

good gear and swopping gear does not a good player make. all the great gear will not make a crappy player good and bad gear will not make a grate player bad.

also stop with the mocking her for saying text limit she got caled out for posting right after her last post in a different threads started saying "text limit" so people would know why the double and sum times triple posts and what do sum of you do mock
her for doing that.

onistely this forums and the game and other mmos are like being back in high school.


having said all that as i posted on the first page this is a great idea and of the 2 i like the 2nd option and hope the Dev team will comment on it

I dunno, I find creating elaborate macros and gear sets to be part of the lure of this game. The fact that I have to research and determine the minuscule performance differences between different gear sets and customize macros to make efficient use of them is as much a part of the battle as swinging my incredibly small dagger at that giant sand worm thingamajiggy.

On a very basic level I see where you could say that gear swaps might not happen quite the way we use them, in a real battle. You would however see people picking up different weapons and or swapping them out based on need. for example, a heavily armored horseman might want to drop his lance, pull his sword or dagger and strip off some of that heavy metal should he be knocked down. He might even be inclined to put on his magic ring that gives him incredible eyesight, or magically absorbs blows from his enemy. I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this.

I understand where in very specific circumstances it would not make sense for a person to be swapping pieces of armor mid battle, but reality and rules are really not synonymous with MMOs, or any game for that matter.

[katiekat]

i want to be cleari gear swop i think it makes me a better player i just wanted to say that not all reasons are stupid.i was more meaning i know there are theirs that just don't for rp reasons. i am not one of them am even starting to work on a nuking set for my nin if she realy pisses you guys off cant you block or ignore her so her comments poof? that wold be better then intaganising her and terming topics in to cat fights (get it mithra ... cat fights...( anyways just hate how much fighting and drama is on this bored...tho its not as bad as game FAQS.

[Reiterpallasch]

if she realy pisses you guys off cant you block or ignore her so her comments poof?
Just because you pretend the dog didn't crap all over the carpet, doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

[Okipuit]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to let you know that we understand everyone's viewpoints as to why swapping additional gear via macros would be favorable, and to some, it may not.

The following policies were established from the beginning after thoroughly exploring the macro feature:

1. The fundamental rule is that macros execute one action per line. (Excluding “/wait”)
2. It is not possible to automate things nor call other macros within a macro.

Due to the aforementioned reasons, we do not plan to expand macros and we appreciate your understanding.

[Demon6324236]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to let you know that we understand everyone's viewpoints as to why swapping additional gear via macros would be favorable, and to some, it may not.

The following policies were established from the beginning after thoroughly exploring the macro feature:

1. The fundamental rule is that macros execute one action per line. (Excluding “/wait”)
2. It is not possible to automate things nor call other macros within a macro.

Due to the aforementioned reasons, we do not plan to expand macros and we appreciate your understanding.

Please tell the reps by leaving players with a lacking macro system they force many players to use Third-party tools to have proper macros. Many players do not want to use Third-party tools on this game but macros are a very important part of the games structure, and with the built in version lacking as it is the only way for players to overcome this disability is via cheating. Also please tell them that I would very much like for them to consider allowing us to edit the macro feature with the new UI and its ability for user plug-ins so that this problem can be avoided in the future.

[Cowardlybabooon]

I'm usually pretty nice on these forums, but this might sound a bit offensive to SE, so I hope it's taken objectively. I think the playerbase understands that those features would allow for some level of automation which may feel like botting to SE. However, what this close-minded stance really does is solidify the gap between those who use the unofficial windower and those who don't. And that's not even talking about the spellcast plugin which run's circles around it. World of Warcraft (the enemy, I know) controls it's plugins rather than blindly stopping them all. They only have 10 times the subscriptions that FFXI has though. /jab

From a purely objective point of view, how the hell do you expect players to use something like twilight cape. More specifically, if a player wishes to have a searing cape or something for when the spell they are casting does not match the weather/day, but wants to use the twilight cape when it does match the weather/day. Considering how often weather changes, should this player constantly change their gear swap macros, or just be constantly button mashing during the now ridiculously fast casting times that elemental celerity provides for blm? A simple If/Then/Else interface would fix this. Even if you just make it apply to equip commands!!!!! Not sure if you realize these programs do exist and people will use them until SE does it better, and they will have a huge advantage over those that don't. I am not a fan of botting or anything related to that, so once again, don't take this the wrong way but please do listen.

[Catmato]

World of Warcraft controls it's plugins rather than pretending they don't exist.
FTFY.

To the devs: We aren't asking to be able to press one macro, then go afk for an hour. We just want a way to use this situational gear without hitting three equip macros for every action (or cheating). I'm not really certain what kind of looping macro situation you seem to be afraid of. It's not like you can do anything worthwhile with no player interaction.

[FrankReynolds]

Here square and crew, I have an easy fix for you guys. Go to the website and download a copy of spell-cast. Give it to your engineers. Have them remove functionality that does not specifically relate to gear swaps. Plug it into your official windower. Profit.

... or just ignore this thread and allow your users to assume that you don't mind if they use third party apps.

On a side note, I'm going to assume that this response was to something that the JP threads asked for, because the OP didn't say anything about automating anything and the one action per line thing just doesn't make sense at all.

[0nionKn1ght]

Good lord people, the rep is a customer support guy, not a developer. They just gave you an honest and clear answer saying the macro system is as it is. People have used Windower for 10 years, im pretty positive that this is no shock to them.

Get out of their throat and give them some credit for answering your query and stop overreacting to it. This has been known forever.

[FrankReynolds]

Good lord people, the rep is a customer support guy, not a developer. They just gave you an honest and clear answer saying the macro system is as it is. People have used Windower for 10 years, im pretty positive that this is no shock to them.

Get out of their throat and give them some credit for answering your query and stop overreacting to it. This has been known forever.

I don't see anything in that response that answers the OP. Take your internetz rage somewhere else.

[cidbahamut]

Good lord people, the rep is a customer support guy, not a developer. They just gave you an honest and clear answer saying the macro system is as it is. People have used Windower for 10 years, im pretty positive that this is no shock to them.

Get out of their throat and give them some credit for answering your query and stop overreacting to it. This has been known forever.

http://i49.tinypic.com/ra26on.jpg

[0nionKn1ght]

http://i49.tinypic.com/ra26on.jpg

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110430222254/halofanon/images/0/01/Meme_-_Keith_Stone.jpg

[Zerich]

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110430222254/halofanon/images/0/01/Meme_-_Keith_Stone.jpg

not a meme

[FrankReynolds]

http://i.qkme.me/367la1.jpg

[Rezeak]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to let you know that we understand everyone's viewpoints as to why swapping additional gear via macros would be favorable, and to some, it may not.

The following policies were established from the beginning after thoroughly exploring the macro feature:

1. The fundamental rule is that macros execute one action per line. (Excluding “/wait”)
2. It is not possible to automate things nor call other macros within a macro.

Due to the aforementioned reasons, we do not plan to expand macros and we appreciate your understanding.

We're not asking to call other macros

we just want gear swaps to be put on one line for a game that clearly rewards muliple gear swaps.

Anyway DEVs said they wanted to make the game easier to use with the new UI but it'll still be full of useless buttons.

Having to press 5 buttons to perform one Action is very poor game design and i put it down to ps2 limitions but on the new UI let pple put gear sets into one line.

[Jackle]

How about putting the reduced macro delay response back in

[Rosina]

the only "dag crapping on the carpet" or giving a poor attitude to play style is coming from you guys. Your so uptight on how I play, I "fight" just to be left alone about it. I've done some ebdgame over the years, been in parties, done stuff with friends AND randoms. And not once was i called out for "not gear swaping". Only time ingame I was called out for something was my choice on how I played rdm. Which i handled by simply leaving the party. I got heat for this due to "being the only mage on". The only reason I stated personal info was to explain to you guys who I am, and where i come from. You guys continually mock my typing, though some of you also make mistakes... so I explain why I make mine. You guys cominually mock my lack of doing something, i explained in detail why I don't. I never was on an anti gear swap thing. I could care less. I just did not.. nor do not feel a player should be insulted for making a choice. All I wanted to do is say my opinions on threads, what I got was off topic petty >

[Rosina]

(text limit)
<
insults that had nothing to do with the topic, or even what I posted. Also having stated I have ADD was also to tell you guys, my brain chemically works different then a person who don't have ADD. This means my logic, and gow i take in and output info is gonna be different. I was making just a logical example of similarities of ffxi and ffxiv. They do share basic game mechanics, and similar macro commands which do include equipment swaping. As miz pointed out, you can gear swap sorta speak but must be in passive mode. Which you can do in any rpg... I just pointed out you can't doing in attack mode. Simple logic would by, if it in ffxi, why not ffxiv? And why are the ppl asking for it, getting it denied.

Anyway... I do appologise for my attitude, but I do not come here to be insulted. I just want my voice to be put in feedback for what goes into a game I love. A game I have been playing since may 25, 2004.

If you guys dislike my comments, dislike them... BUT no need for the insults.

[Rosina]

(text limit)

final note that dev reply, is pretty much what reply ffxiv players get.

[cidbahamut]

Also having stated I have ADD was also to tell you guys, my brain chemically works different then a person who don't have ADD. This means my logic, and gow i take in and output info is gonna be different.

Plenty of other posters also have ADD and quite frankly wish you would stop bringing it up because it is not an excuse. You're using it as a crutch and the rest of us find that extremely insulting.

[Demon6324236]

I have ADD

I don't need to know that! Personal info is personal, keep it to yourself, we don't need to know it.

[Rosina]

Plenty of other posters also have ADD and quite frankly wish you would stop bringing it up because it is not an excuse. You're using it as a crutch and the rest of us find that extremely insulting.

No i'm not... Just used it as an explination as my poor typing which ya, i admit and have admoted my typing sucks. But also... ADD isn't the same for everyone their many different "tics" of it that not everyone will have.

Pretty much you guys insulted me for a piss poor reason... all I stated was an explination, you choose to think i'm using it as a crutch. Instead of repeating the same school yard insults on my typing, try to ask what I mean, and I will try to type better.

going "omg rosina you fail so hard your typing sucks noob" say, you misspell or I don't understand what you mean. It makes you sound less like a well brat....

[Volarione]

Better idea if you don't want called out, stop posting. Period.

And seriously don't put personal info out there that you don't want used against you. It just makes you come off as shiny at this point.

[Rosina]

I don't need to know that! Personal info is personal, keep it to yourself, we don't need to know it.

well here is the thing, do I need to be insulted for something i may not have an easy time controling?

Instead of being ignorant that i'm typing bad to type bad I made it know that I had it, And that I try hard to type well. It isn't personally easy for me. But I try my best. But really, can the two of you drop the fact I did say it?

You do not have to get on my case for it. By me saying it, is nothing more then my saying it. I'm not, nor never meant it to be an excuse.

But I will again state this... I don't need to be insulted either.

[Tamarsamar]

Oh look, this thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/686-What-Everybody-Wants-Shorter-Simpler-Macros) again.

Would be nice if they did something like consolidating an entire set of equipment to a single command to go with the whole new UI thing.

[Rosina]

Better idea if you don't want called out, stop posting. Period.

And seriously don't put personal info out there that you don't want used against you. It just makes you come off as shiny at this point.

or you can drop it and move on...

[Volarione]

well here is the thing, do I need to be insulted for something i may not have an easy time controling?

Instead of being ignorant that i'm typing bad to type bad I made it know that I had it, And that I try hard to type well. It isn't personally easy for me. But I try my best. But really, can the two of you drop the fact I did say it?

You do not have to get on my case for it. By me saying it, is nothing more then my saying it. I'm not, nor never meant it to be an excuse.

But I will again state this... I don't need to be insulted either.

No you need to stop whining and get a spell and grammer checker, windows comes with it stock. If you get on other peoples cases they will get on yours grow up please.

I said something about macros calling macros but I only meant as the macro book could call to an equipment book.

[Volarione]

or as apparently i am goot be a repeating parot... you can drop it and move on...

Umm I don't speak whatever language this is. It's not English so....

[Rosina]

No you need to stop whining and get a spell and grammer checker, windows comes with it stock. If you get on other peoples cases they will get on yours grow up please.

I said something about macros calling macros but I only meant as the macro book could call to an equipment book.

You must be new here (july 2012) yes you are..

I type on the ps3, if I had a spell checker and grammar checker I would have been using it. I have not whinned once, simply asking to not be insulted is not whining. Its a simply request. I could easily just report it... but I feel reporting petty brat behavior a bit trivial and a simply request to stop should suffice.

[Demon6324236]

You must be new here (july 2012) yes you are..

I type on the ps3, if I had a spell checker and grammar checker I would have been using it. I have not whinned once, simply asking to not be insulted is not whining. Its a simply request. I could easily just report it... but I feel reporting petty brat behavior a bit trivial and a simply request to stop should suffice.

Rosina please stop arguing with people...

[Byrth]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to let you know that we understand everyone's viewpoints as to why swapping additional gear via macros would be favorable, and to some, it may not.

The following policies were established from the beginning after thoroughly exploring the macro feature:

1. The fundamental rule is that macros execute one action per line. (Excluding “/wait”)
2. It is not possible to automate things nor call other macros within a macro.

Due to the aforementioned reasons, we do not plan to expand macros and we appreciate your understanding.

I think it's worth pointing out that the two things you named aren't "reasons." Saying you've given a reason implies that you've explained some kind of design principle that led to the current rules. You just said the current rules, which are (as far as we know from what you've said) arbitrary. Whether or not they're malleable isn't really up for debate, considering they're in an artificially created online environment.

You've entered a debate about what the laws should be by reciting the laws, clapping your hands, and saying "I guess we're done here!"

[Nala]

or you can drop it and move on...

Or you could not bring it up in the first place, then there would be no need to drop it.

In any case i approve of any idea that allows more in game freedom of control, aka not hitting 4 macros to gear swap and perform my weapon skill of choice.

[Baudle]

Suggestions are always welcome and we encourage players to discuss them fully. Please keep posts on topic and free of insults to one another. We would rather not lock this thread for unnecessary inflammatory behavior. We ask that everyone stay on track. Thank you.

~GM Baudle

[Arcon]

Get out of their throat and give them some credit for answering your query and stop overreacting to it. This has been known forever.

They didn't answer shit. They ignored the question entirely and gave a generic response. And no one is blaming them for it, we're blaming the developers. We know they're just messengers.


not a meme

Memes are retarded.


You just said the current rules, which are (as far as we know from what you've said) arbitrary. Whether or not they're malleable isn't really up for debate, considering they're in an artificially created online environment.

You've entered a debate about what the laws should be by reciting the laws, clapping your hands, and saying "I guess we're done here!"

That's precisely my problem with it. But sadly, it feels like this is their way of answering most our inquiries. It was the same with the merit suggestion. We were criticizing the current situation, and they responded by saying the current situation was intended. No kidding. If it wasn't, it probably wouldn't be in this game. But that was precisely what was bothering people, and it's the same here. We all know SE made it to only execute one gear swap per macro line. But that is our very problem.

When asked to increase the macro lines, they answered with memory limitations on the PS2. Now we gave them another solution and they answer with "it was always intended this way"? If that's the case you should have told us sooner, so we'd stop suggesting new things and waiting for ages for a generic answer.

Nothing is more disheartening than getting more proof that the developers of one of your favorite games have no common sense whatsoever and care nothing about their community's wishes and desires. If they think they know better than we do, just because they develop this game they are gravely mistaken. They need to learn to differentiate between idiots suggesting silly things such as RDM should be allowed to use Great Axes and valid suggestions that would benefit almost everyone and increase the gameplay value, especially if it helps get people off an officially forbidden third party tool, which is so common by now that they attract more people to the game than SE themselves. Now that's something to be ashamed of. See the error of your ways devs and do something about it.

[Rosina]

Acron you post or read the ffxiv forums yes?
thats pretty much what they replied to gear swaping requests.
But i'm all with you guys... we should have AT LEAST more macro lines.

>.> i may not gear swap but I do rp up my macros (which are done via echo)

[Babekeke]

The funny thing to me is that the community reps here all play or used to play FFXI anyway... and I'll bet money that they did/do use windower, so they completely understand what we're saying.


>.> i may not gear swap but I do rp up my macros (which are done via echo)

Worst...

Argument...

Ever! (but at least you use /echo and not /say I guess)

[SpankWustler]

The following policies were established from the beginning after thoroughly exploring the macro feature:

1. The fundamental rule is that macros execute one action per line. (Excluding “/wait”)
2. It is not possible to automate things nor call other macros within a macro.

The words "policies" and "rule" give me the impression that the horribly limited design of macros has less to do with Final Fantasy XI being a decade-old PS2 game and more to do with the Development Bros being eccentrics. This frightens me.

Also, many players often totally understand that things are intended to be one way. A lot of us can still feel strongly that the aforementioned one way is awful and dumb.

Telling us, "Yeah, the Development Bros meant to run full-tilt into you while holding scissors in both hands exactly at crotch-level!" doesn't do much other than confirm that we weren't just standing in the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong pants.

[Arcon]

Acron you post or read the ffxiv forums yes?

Neither.


thats pretty much what they replied to gear swaping requests.

And as such, you may have anticipated it. But it doesn't make the reply any more valid.

[Kraggy]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to let you know that we understand everyone's viewpoints as to why swapping additional gear via macros would be favorable, and to some, it may not.

The following policies were established from the beginning after thoroughly exploring the macro feature:

1. The fundamental rule is that macros execute one action per line. (Excluding “/wait”)
2. It is not possible to automate things nor call other macros within a macro.

Due to the aforementioned reasons, we do not plan to expand macros and we appreciate your understanding.
You know, SE can be so ostrich-like at times, it's not funny.

You can't seriously tell us you don't know that a large number , possibly the majority by now, of PC players use the universally-known third-party add-on that makes swapping entire gear for every attack possible using a single key; many use it just for a decent macro capability, not the pseudo-botting it also allows.

Yet you stubbornly refuse to accept this fact and provide an official means of doing this for the minority (I expect) of PC players who don't want to cheat and those playing on consoles where such cheating isn't allowed.

/shakeshead

Personally I don't need that capability but it would be nice to have for occasional use, but I also recognise that many people think is absolutely required for tackling the high-end end-game content. The fact vast numbers have that because they're willing to cheat isn't fair to the rest who aren't; even FFXIV has a more usable macro system, how about even implementing THAT???

[Dragoy]

Many have already said it but...


Hey guys,

I just wanted to let you know that we understand everyone's viewpoints as to why swapping additional gear via macros would be favorable, and to some, it may not.

The following policies were established from the beginning after thoroughly exploring the macro feature:

1. The fundamental rule is that macros execute one action per line. (Excluding “/wait”)
2. It is not possible to automate things nor call other macros within a macro.

Due to the aforementioned reasons, we do not plan to expand macros and we appreciate your understanding.

And thus, the majority (very likely) uses external sources to get help with it, or cheat, if you will.

Working as... intended?
I am afraid there is no understanding whatsoever here. ^^;

I, for one, never even tried such helpers even though I play on a PC. I would, however, be happy with even something as simple as more lines, or more functions added per one line. I don't even use the most efficient equipment for everything possible. Usually I have just 2 macros per set, but when there are two or three for everything such as for gaining TP, for when executing weapon skills, for magic and/or physical damage reduction, for certain job abilities, for magic... the list goes on and on, it's not exactly fun any longer.

And that's just for gear! I don't use the macro-system for abilities, except for 'Meditate'. For everything else, I use the menu-system, even if that may be a bit slower. (No, not the clickety-click menu, I mean short-cuts for magic list that is by default ctrl+m or alt+m, and ctrl+w or alt+w for weapon skills, ctrl+j... and so on.)

What makes it even less fun, are the delays and sometimes the unresponsiveness of the system which will make even using just two macros one after another very annoying, creating a broken feel to the game. If you don't want players to use macros to change equipment during combat, then either delete all or most of the current equipment, and create new that can be used at all times without losing on efficiency, or, create more efficient ways to execute macros and/or change equipment. :]

It is quite amazing (not in a good way, mind you!) how the system is adamantly being kept as is, while it obviously promotes cheating, and which nothing is or has been done about for years!

Disappointed. =/

[Rosina]

The funny thing to me is that the community reps here all play or used to play FFXI anyway... and I'll bet money that they did/do use windower, so they completely understand what we're saying.



Worst...

Argument...

Ever! (but at least you use /echo and not /say I guess)

not all ffxi players used windower....

And never said it was an arguement. But w.e

[Rosina]

Neither.



And as such, you may have anticipated it. But it doesn't make the reply any more valid.

pretty much there have been @ least 12 gear swap threads on ffxiv which are either locked, or met with a similar reply that was put here.

But reality is i'm with yall... even posted a suggestion if macro room is limited. Just make equiment "books" similar to macro books. Have seys of equipment soved up for each jpb so u can just use a single macro line to swap put a full set of gear. That should not only dave macro room. But free up mavro lines to play multiple skills under 1 macro.

[saevel]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to let you know that we understand everyone's viewpoints as to why swapping additional gear via macros would be favorable, and to some, it may not.

The following policies were established from the beginning after thoroughly exploring the macro feature:

1. The fundamental rule is that macros execute one action per line. (Excluding “/wait”)
2. It is not possible to automate things nor call other macros within a macro.

Due to the aforementioned reasons, we do not plan to expand macros and we appreciate your understanding.

Oki those are understandable reasons for one line per macro and no looping / calling.

Those don't describe the reason for only 6 lines per macro on the PC version. What is limiting SE from adding 18~20 lines for a single macro on a PC client? There is more then sufficient hard disk space and memory space to accommodate this change. PS2 / 360 should also be able to do this as your not on more then macro pallet at a time.

[Monchat]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to let you know that we understand everyone's viewpoints as to why swapping additional gear via macros would be favorable, and to some, it may not.

The following policies were established from the beginning after thoroughly exploring the macro feature:

1. The fundamental rule is that macros execute one action per line. (Excluding “/wait”)
2. It is not possible to automate things nor call other macros within a macro.

Due to the aforementioned reasons, we do not plan to expand macros and we appreciate your understanding.

well tell your dev team to stop the UI upgrades now. wtf bullshit policy is that. stop wasting your time on HD icon and other non sense and learn what players want: easy to use interface. We saw what the reaction was when they tried to mimic the same crap inteface and macros in FF14.

[Godofgods]

The following policies were established from the beginning after thoroughly exploring the macro feature:

1. The fundamental rule is that macros execute one action per line. (Excluding “/wait”)
2. It is not possible to automate things nor call other macros within a macro.

Due to the aforementioned reasons, we do not plan to expand macros and we appreciate your understanding.

The issue is the space/time needed to make/use a equip macro. Ppl don't want to hit three macros to situational equip, 1 for ws (or whatever) then three more to go back to normal equip.

So, if you cant/wont adjust the macros, then theirs only one part left. The need to use to much situational gear. Take out that, and we wont need the heightened macros

[Demon6324236]

not all ffxi players used windower....

All? No, but alot more than there should be are breaking rules of the game for a simple feature SE refuses to fix.

[Kristal]

Oki those are understandable reasons for one line per macro and no looping / calling.

Those don't describe the reason for only 6 lines per macro on the PC version. What is limiting SE from adding 18~20 lines for a single macro on a PC client? There is more then sufficient hard disk space and memory space to accommodate this change. PS2 / 360 should also be able to do this as your not on more then macro pallet at a time.

The more lines you add, the more automated it becomes. And more equip swaps also means more talking to the server. Both are situations that SE wants to avoid.
At least, that's how I explain SE's position on this. (Few more lines would still be nice.)

[Arcon]

The more lines you add, the more automated it becomes. And more equip swaps also means more talking to the server. Both are situations that SE wants to avoid.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was their reasoning, seeing as how their reasoning is almost always wrong. They don't seem to realize that it still happens, only it forces people press three macros instead of one.

[Gaiben]

What I would like to see that I think would avoid the macro issue is a pre-built equipment set. Like the idea of how you have a second or third equipment menu that would let you set a second or more collection of gear that count as equipped in the item menu but doesn't take effect visually or statistically unless 'swapped' using a simple command line. This would allow us to also place that simple command line into macros so we could swap gear, ws/ja/ma, then swap back with around three lines and even leave room for a /party line.

Maybe something that could be thrown into the newer interface design?

[Sarick]

The more lines you add, the more automated it becomes. And more equip swaps also means more talking to the server. Both are situations that SE wants to avoid.
At least, that's how I explain SE's position on this. (Few more lines would still be nice.)


This is Bulluks..

They can create linked macros with the exception that these gear set macros ALWAYS start with /equip << forced in the start of the text that can't be edited. That would mean the automation inside those macros is nul use. Example..

The main macro can call gearset macros but gearset macros CAN NOT CALL the main macros. This would allow only the main macro to call equipment macros and limit the ability of automation making it impossible.

This would be 1 macro for phalanx

/equipset 2
/ma "Phalanx" <me> <wait 8>
/equipset 1

Equipset 1 is..

/equip head "Head Armor"
/equip body "Body Armor"
/equip hands "Hand Armor"
/equip legs "Leg Armor"
/equip feet "Feet Armor"
/equip EMPTY

Equipset 2 is..

/equip head "Enhancing Head Armor"
/equip body "Enhancing Body Armor"
/equip hands "Enhancing Hand Armor"
/equip legs "Enhancing Leg Armor"
/equip feet "Enhancing Feet Armor"
/equip EMPTY

They could even leave out the macro portion entirely and make a set record the current set of all equipped gear at that time. This would eliminate the macro lines completely in the gear sets. These sets could be a FULL 16 lines recorded by the game when you have a set equipped.

To go even more advanced who needs to swap gear at all! they could create a system that remembers your gear stats for a set checks to make sure you have said gear inside then modifies your gear to those stats. All without swapping a single item.

It's not a rocket science here. Macros swapping isn't even needed. Provided you can equip the set on said job/level etc we shouldn't need to even update.

Blinking
Look at the headgear setup where you can set your character to not show headgear.

They could do the same with head,body,hands,legs,feet. It would be much like the /headgear where you can set your appearance. The only difference is when you change jobs you'd need to re-lock your appearance.

SE please wake up.. Blinking and Macro limitations because of lines is a sad excuse the auto automation excuse just doesn't cut it either. The players are smarter then this. There are definitely ways around these imposed limitations that can be created and none of the game breaking drawbacks mentioned in the excuses would exist.

[0nionKn1ght]

Players: We want something!
SE: You can't have it.
Players: WE DEMAND A REASON!
SE: Here is the reason we have for you.
Players: WE DONT WANT THIS REASON IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE AND HERE ARE 134 POSTS AS TO WHY!
SE: Ok then. So?
Players: If THIS was a car and we bought shoes from a pokemon master on the moon in accordance to american legislature we would be ENTITLED to a refund and we demand 10 years of payments returned now!
SE: Yeah....no.

I honestly get the feeling some people in this game don't know what they want, and also don't know how an issue that has been around for 10 years is only now causing some people in this thread to lay an egg at how angry they are. The rest of us just make do or work around it. Why you feel the need to blow a gasket is beyond me. You people (not all, some of you seem lovely to be honest) need to chill the heck out and calm down. Life is bigger than a 10 year old game no one plays anymore.

[Demon6324236]

Life is bigger than a 10 year old game no one plays anymore.

Blasphemy!

No really tho, its not just now that people have been complaining about macros or saying something about it. People have complained for a long~ time, myself I don't say much unless its a thread like this where people talk about it because it feels like a waste of time. SE does not stop Windower users very effectively, and SE does not do what needs to be done to give people a reason to stop using it. Simple way to say it is SE is not willing to fix their game in a way players wont go to 3rd parties for features SE refuses to add.

The only hope is that the new UI which is PC only is a response to Windower. If it adds enough and is open enough for people to use it well, and makes Windower unneeded then SE will do a good job. Or they can just as easily mess it up and get nothing from it except more people saying they have no idea what they are doing and that they support the use of 3rd party programs via doing nothing to stop them.

[cidbahamut]

They're not reasons, they're excuses.

[FrankReynolds]

Players: We want something!
SE: You can't have it.
Players: WE DEMAND A REASON!
SE: Here is the reason we have for you.
Players: WE DONT WANT THIS REASON IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE AND HERE ARE 134 POSTS AS TO WHY!
SE: Ok then. So?
Players: If THIS was a car and we bought shoes from a pokemon master on the moon in accordance to american legislature we would be ENTITLED to a refund and we demand 10 years of payments returned now!
SE: Yeah....no.

I honestly get the feeling some people in this game don't know what they want, and also don't know how an issue that has been around for 10 years is only now causing some people in this thread to lay an egg at how angry they are. The rest of us just make do or work around it. Why you feel the need to blow a gasket is beyond me. You people (not all, some of you seem lovely to be honest) need to chill the heck out and calm down. Life is bigger than a 10 year old game no one plays anymore.


Cool kids don't care about anything right?

Too bad this is a forum full of MMO Players. No cool kids here. We care about this game enough to not only pay for it, but post in the suggestion forums as well, and so do you.

There are millions of examples of things in the world that "work fine" but get replaced every day. Playing football worked fine, but I prefer FFXI. The macro system has needed updating for a very long time now. The game has outgrown it.

SE is basically saying "Helmets are not allowed in the rules, and we're not going to make helmets... but we don't actually have any means / reason to enforce the rules, so all you people without helmets are about to get F***ed up. Have fun guys ;)"

[0nionKn1ght]

Cool kids don't care about anything right?

Too bad this is a forum full of MMO Players. No cool kids here. We care about this game enough to not only pay for it, but post in the suggestion forums as well, and so do you.

There are millions of examples of things in the world that "work fine" but get replaced every day. Playing football worked fine, but I prefer FFXI. The macro system has needed updating for a very long time now. The game has outgrown it.

SE is basically saying "Helmets are not allowed in the rules, and we're not going to make helmets... but we don't actually have any means / reason to enforce the rules, so all you people without helmets are about to get F***ed up. Have fun guys ;)"

The reasoning isn't the problem. If you want to make suggestions then more power to you, but when you are told why it won't happen, this doesn't give you the right to start snarling and foaming at the mouth. The issue is a moot point anyways, as they keep saying it's not going to happen, the same as how they categorically said every patch that the level cap was never going to raise from 75, so drop it and move on.

There is no problem with making suggestions, but nothing gives anyone the right to be a complete tool about it in the process.

[cidbahamut]

Bro, you mispelled your username. It's "white", not "onion".

[Zerich]

Bro, you mispelled your username. It's "white", not "onion".

beat me to the white knighting reference. ;-;

but yeah.

[Arcon]

The reasoning isn't the problem. If you want to make suggestions then more power to you, but when you are told why it won't happen, this doesn't give you the right to start snarling and foaming at the mouth. The issue is a moot point anyways, as they keep saying it's not going to happen, the same as how they categorically said every patch that the level cap was never going to raise from 75, so drop it and move on.

There is no problem with making suggestions, but nothing gives anyone the right to be a complete tool about it in the process.

And how were/are we being tools, exactly?

[0nionKn1ght]

And how were/are we being tools, exactly?


I wouldn't be surprised if that was their reasoning, seeing as how their reasoning is almost always wrong.


You know, SE can be so ostrich-like at times, it's not funny.

You can't seriously tell us you don't know that a large number , possibly the majority by now, of PC players use the universally-known third-party add-on that makes swapping entire gear for every attack possible using a single key; many use it just for a decent macro capability, not the pseudo-botting it also allows.

Yet you stubbornly refuse to accept this fact and provide an official means of doing this for the minority (I expect) of PC players who don't want to cheat and those playing on consoles where such cheating isn't allowed.

/shakeshead

Personally I don't need that capability but it would be nice to have for occasional use, but I also recognise that many people think is absolutely required for tackling the high-end end-game content. The fact vast numbers have that because they're willing to cheat isn't fair to the rest who aren't; even FFXIV has a more usable macro system, how about even implementing THAT???

Those 2 posts alone are pretty arrogant and "tooly", and thats just on this page of the thread. Call out as much as you want, in my opinion I think a good chunk of the people posting here are vile, but there seem to be some nice people to it kind of balances. There is a group of 3 of you in particular that seem to serve only to derail threads and troll, Cidbahamut and Zerich being 2 of the constant offenders.

[FrankReynolds]

The reasoning isn't the problem. If you want to make suggestions then more power to you, but when you are told why it won't happen, this doesn't give you the right to start snarling and foaming at the mouth. The issue is a moot point anyways, as they keep saying it's not going to happen, the same as how they categorically said every patch that the level cap was never going to raise from 75, so drop it and move on.

There is no problem with making suggestions, but nothing gives anyone the right to be a complete tool about it in the process.

I don't see anyone foaming at the mouth. I know it's hard to gauge a persons level of interest by reading something on a forum, but I think that you are misconstruing long articulate posts for "foaming at the mouth". In real life I use the F-word every chance I get in the course of normal conversation. I tone everything way the hell back for these forums. I promise, If I am ever foaming at the mouth (I doubt that will ever happen over something someone said on the interwebz), you will know by the long string of deleted posts and locked threads.

Back on topic: I wasn't told "why it won't happen". If you read my first response to it, I pointed out that the response they gave was not addressing the request made by the OP. What they said was only vaguely related to what he asked for, and the reason they gave is "It's just always been like that."

That line of reasoning coming from your parents when you are seven is infuriating, but most people at the age of seven, are not articulate enough to point out the flaws in that logic. We are all grown ups for the most part. I stay up as late as I want playing FFXI nowadays. My mom can call and say I have to go to bed at 9 "Because I said so!", but I ain't gonna listen because I own this house. And that is exactly what FFXI players are doing.

You either make the game the way the players want it, or they take matters into their own hands and either cheat or quit. It's lose / lose when a company ignores obvious design flaws.

[SpankWustler]

Since day one, I've always assumed macros are the way they are due to console hardware limitations or attempts to control how much data moves to and fro or some other technical thing I barely understand. Maybe it would just take entirely too much time to do anything.

That's totally understandable. A company is a company and sometimes things take priority over how a game plays. Particularly when that game is on multiple platforms. It isn't like players haven't found a way to work around this issue themselves.

Suddenly, like a bolt from the brown, here comes an explanation that may not involve anything technical. It's hard to tell.

The idea that "This is what I did and I did it on purpose." can be a reason just bothers me on an ideological level. Even emotional reasons such as "because I like him" or "because I hate her" are much more informative.

I guess I'd pee in her coffee too, if I hated her that much, and I'm not her so I'm in no danger. Carry on, baleful urine dispenser! My mind is sated!

I definitely feel a bit ridiculous applying this or any other ideal to something so frivolous, but on the other hand, spending three minutes to type something isn't a huge investment of time or emotion.

[0nionKn1ght]

I wouldn't be surprised if that was their reasoning, seeing as how their reasoning is almost always wrong. They don't seem to realize that it still happens, only it forces people press three macros instead of one.


You know, SE can be so ostrich-like at times, it's not funny.

You can't seriously tell us you don't know that a large number , possibly the majority by now, of PC players use the universally-known third-party add-on that makes swapping entire gear for every attack possible using a single key; many use it just for a decent macro capability, not the pseudo-botting it also allows.

Yet you stubbornly refuse to accept this fact and provide an official means of doing this for the minority (I expect) of PC players who don't want to cheat and those playing on consoles where such cheating isn't allowed.

/shakeshead

Personally I don't need that capability but it would be nice to have for occasional use, but I also recognise that many people think is absolutely required for tackling the high-end end-game content. The fact vast numbers have that because they're willing to cheat isn't fair to the rest who aren't; even FFXIV has a more usable macro system, how about even implementing THAT???


Just ignore the trollOnionKnight and be done with it. I recognized this the first time he responded to my "They're back" topic in general with something snark, useless and outright rude. The truth is it's easier to make excuses then it is to fix something and this topic implies that excuses are the driving force behind fixing those things.

A troll is not someone who disagrees with you, and your thread didn't seem to serve a point, only to chicken little over something that has been the case for years.

The continued point is that if it's not fixed by now, then it's most likely never going to see a change, however as I mentioned above, they said the same thing week in, week out about the 75 cap, and now here we are using Convert on Summoner, and casting Refresh on Black Mage.

The problem is that players seem to think that harping on about the same issue again and again will change something, when all it needs is one thread and one post, and it's noted. Droning on and on about it just winds yourselves up.

Also, I am amused at so far how pretty much all of us have called each trolls at least once in this thread.

Troll is not =/= someone who disagrees with your points

[cidbahamut]

A troll is not someone who disagrees with you, and your thread didn't seem to serve a point, only to chicken little over something that has been the case for years.

It's a serious flaw in the game's design that has been in desperate need of attention for years. Just because something is the status quo does not mean that it is in any way an acceptable state of affairs.



The continued point is that if it's not fixed by now, then it's most likely never going to see a change, however as I mentioned above, they said the same thing week in, week out about the 75 cap, and now here we are using Convert on Summoner, and casting Refresh on Black Mage.

The problem is that players seem to think that harping on about the same issue again and again will change something, when all it needs is one thread and one post, and it's noted. Droning on and on about it just winds yourselves up.

So you're advocating complacency in the face of the developers blatantly ignoring critical issues that the playerbase brings to their attention?

[0nionKn1ght]

I wouldn't be surprised if that was their reasoning, seeing as how their reasoning is almost always wrong. They don't seem to realize that it still happens, only it forces people press three macros instead of one.


You know, SE can be so ostrich-like at times, it's not funny.

You can't seriously tell us you don't know that a large number , possibly the majority by now, of PC players use the universally-known third-party add-on that makes swapping entire gear for every attack possible using a single key; many use it just for a decent macro capability, not the pseudo-botting it also allows.

Yet you stubbornly refuse to accept this fact and provide an official means of doing this for the minority (I expect) of PC players who don't want to cheat and those playing on consoles where such cheating isn't allowed.

/shakeshead

Personally I don't need that capability but it would be nice to have for occasional use, but I also recognise that many people think is absolutely required for tackling the high-end end-game content. The fact vast numbers have that because they're willing to cheat isn't fair to the rest who aren't; even FFXIV has a more usable macro system, how about even implementing THAT???


It's a serious flaw in the game's design that has been in desperate need of attention for years. Just because something is the status quo does not mean that it is in any way an acceptable state of affairs.


So you're advocating complacency in the face of the developers blatantly ignoring critical issues that the playerbase brings to their attention?

No, how are you continually not getting this. They get the point, stop rattling on about it, as it's not going to help you.

[Zerich]

No, how are you continually not getting this. They get the point, stop rattling on about it, as it's not going to help you.

The devs and community reps are not going to come out of the wood works to wet your panties and say, "Oh dearest OnionKnight! You doth well in the dearth of compliments for mine ruling. I thank you, oh fair and noble knight!"

[cidbahamut]

No, how are you continually not getting this. They get the point, stop rattling on about it, as it's not going to help you.
So to answer my question: yes.

[0nionKn1ght]

The devs and community reps are not going to come out of the wood works to wet your panties and say, "Oh dearest OnionKnight! You doth well in the dearth of compliments for mine ruling. I thank you, oh fair and noble knight!"

They also aren't going to come out of the woodwork and yield to your incessant trolling by going OK OK STOP PLEASE HERE HAVE 200 LINES PER MACRO JUST PLEASE STOP TYPING INSULTS TO PEOPLE IN A TEXT BASED CHAT ON AN ONLINE FORUM! PLEAAAASE!

To this day I will never understand why unless people are raging up against the bit for whatever issue is mentioned in the OP, they are considered White Knights. Me not agreeing, or not going along with your droning is all part of the process of forum debate. This is a fan forum, why do you people seem to want to hate so much? Surely we should just be happy that enough of us exist to keep this game running based on our want to play it, but no, im sure im going to get that quoted and taken out of context too, because it's so much more fun to try to antagonise each other than it is to find common ground and discuss what we all want to do, see, and have done to the game to improve it, without it diverting into moron rugby.

Right, now that us 2 total strangers have had that out over this medium, anyone want to get back on track and continue pointlessly complaining about an issue we already have a CS response on pages back? No? More sarcastic attempts to wind me up then?

[cidbahamut]

When you come out swinging you should expect a few punches in return.

Why are you so adamant about defending SE and demanding that everyone quietly accept terrible game design? What is so taboo about calling out bad game design and requesting that it be changed?

[0nionKn1ght]

I wouldn't be surprised if that was their reasoning, seeing as how their reasoning is almost always wrong. They don't seem to realize that it still happens, only it forces people press three macros instead of one.


You know, SE can be so ostrich-like at times, it's not funny.

You can't seriously tell us you don't know that a large number , possibly the majority by now, of PC players use the universally-known third-party add-on that makes swapping entire gear for every attack possible using a single key; many use it just for a decent macro capability, not the pseudo-botting it also allows.

Yet you stubbornly refuse to accept this fact and provide an official means of doing this for the minority (I expect) of PC players who don't want to cheat and those playing on consoles where such cheating isn't allowed.

/shakeshead

Personally I don't need that capability but it would be nice to have for occasional use, but I also recognise that many people think is absolutely required for tackling the high-end end-game content. The fact vast numbers have that because they're willing to cheat isn't fair to the rest who aren't; even FFXIV has a more usable macro system, how about even implementing THAT???


When you come out swinging you should expect a few punches in return.

Why are you so adamant about defending SE and demanding that everyone quietly accept terrible game design? What is so taboo about calling out bad game design and requesting that it be changed?

I am not expecting no one to fight back when I disagree.

I am not agreeing that the game design should just be accepted.

What you should understand though is that the mechanic has already had a statement in this thread on the issue raised, and for the time being their development team aren't able to change it. This has been the case with many now changed functions ingame. Continually antagonising that fact won't change the function.

The problem here though is that this thread is so lost in the twisting trolling forests, I cannot discern an actual post from a trolling one, so I think ill just give up trying to take part in this one.

[Jerbob]

The position of the developers on this topic is completely unacceptable. In a game that (for a lot of people) relies so heavily on macro-controlled equipment changes, the system should be as streamlined as possible. There's so much potential to make the macro system better with just a little time investment.

I understand the rules that the development team apparently use (thanks to Okipuit for brining this thread to their attention), but really they do not prohibit the kinds of enhanced functionality being proposed. Complete automation would obviously be a negative thing, but that doesn't mean that there can't be failsafes in place to prevent more than, for example, 6 macros from being called in a row. It just takes a little thought and willingness, and quite frankly it is not our job to tell the developers how to make these things work. I already pay them to do that. If complete autonomy is a negative potential concequence of enhancing macros, deal with it! Don't use it as an excuse.

People have been making lots of gearswaps in one go for years. Manually chaining macros is one (cumbersome) way of doing it. Cheating using third party tools is another - and one that I find particularly frustrating to see in others as it just demonstrates exactly how valuable such functionality is. The difficulty of the game is at least in part based on people who can already do this, as SE adjusts their "new" content to match the capabilities of the players - and this is before going into how unenjoyable it is to spam macros when you just want to be the best that you can be.

In short:
- There is no technical excuse for not enhancing macros because people have been doing it for years already.
- There is no botting/automation excuse for not enhancing macros because failsafes can easily be put into place to prevent this.
- There is no reason to look into breaking the rule of "one thing per line" - alternatives can be found.

I would appeal to our community representatives to put this general idea before the developers again. It would be a "quality of life" update unlike any other in the history of FFXI, as far as I am concerned, as well as a firm start on levelling the playing field between the people who use third party tools to gain an unfair advantage and those that do not.


...and we appreciate your understanding.
There is no understanding for you to appreciate. I am very annoyed to hear this. I had high hopes for the user interface updates, but no longer.

[Demon6324236]

What you should understand though is that the mechanic has already had a statement in this thread on the issue raised, and for the time being their development team aren't able willing to change it.
SE said no, it is our jobs as fans to speak out in outrage when the company makes bad choices by telling them what we as fans believe they are doing wrong, and how we think it would be best to correct these flaws. In this case, macros are messed up because you have to hit 3 for 1 action most players use, which is causing many players either annoyance or to cheat, which they should want to stop by fixing their problems in a way we are saying that allows no cheating and would cause less people to use 3rd party programs.

[0nionKn1ght]

I personally am hoping to see most of Windower's functions absorbed into the game client, but judging on SE's previous attempt (the built in one they added last year) and their lack of any kind of technical design ability, I am not going to put any stock into expecting it.

A permanent player TP viewer without the need for macro commands - Mandatory
Windowed functions without the performance drop the built in one gives - Mandatory
Extended Macro Functionality - Would be nice, but not mandatory
Drawdistance toggles - Would be nice, and should already be ingame, but not mandatory
Cooldowns displayed clearly - On the fence between mandatory and passive on this one

Looking at FFXIV, we can see their tech knowledge is verging on the non-existant. Playonline is a horrible login system to use, and they continued to use a similar one for XIV. Using WoW's launcher as a perfect example here. The launcher auto updates, takes minimal resources, and intelligently patches, rarely needing a full reinstall, but FFXI's requires a client and launcher patch, and then a second client patch after subscribing. The technical workings behind it are awful, and it takes roughly 4 minutes to get from desktop to game login screen every time. In WoW, Rift, AoC, I can be ingame in around 20 seconds.

Those are problems I would like to see fixed first.

[Cowardlybabooon]

Devs, let us make gear sets and keep your precious one command per line.

[Volarione]

I personally am hoping to see most of Windower's functions absorbed into the game client, but judging on SE's previous attempt (the built in one they added last year) and their lack of any kind of technical design ability, I am not going to put any stock into expecting it.

A permanent player TP viewer without the need for macro commands - Mandatory
Windowed functions without the performance drop the built in one gives - Mandatory
Extended Macro Functionality - Would be nice, but not mandatory
Drawdistance toggles - Would be nice, and should already be ingame, but not mandatory
Cooldowns displayed clearly - On the fence between mandatory and passive on this one

Looking at FFXIV, we can see their tech knowledge is verging on the non-existant. Playonline is a horrible login system to use, and they continued to use a similar one for XIV. Using WoW's launcher as a perfect example here. The launcher auto updates, takes minimal resources, and intelligently patches, rarely needing a full reinstall, but FFXI's requires a client and launcher patch, and then a second client patch after subscribing. The technical workings behind it are awful, and it takes roughly 4 minutes to get from desktop to game login screen every time. In WoW, Rift, AoC, I can be ingame in around 20 seconds.

Those are problems I would like fixed first.




We get it you don't need more macro space, but I for one would love just 4 more lines in my macro. If only so I can customize more. I for one don't care about draw distance or to veiwer but hey that's me, with more macro space I could echo a to check into all my spells and abilities.

[Jackstin]

I think limiting the number lf equips you can change is good. It adds an element of choice and strategy, instead of just getting the best equipment and everyone being identical due to OCD.

The problem is more that SE don't care about people who use third party programs. It puts the rest of the playerbase at a disadvantage.

Either SE needs to allow full gear swaps, or they need to be tougher on 3rd party tools. To be bonest, I'd rather see the second option.

[tyrantsyn]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to let you know that we understand everyone's viewpoints as to why swapping additional gear via macros would be favorable, and to some, it may not.

The following policies were established from the beginning after thoroughly exploring the macro feature:

1. The fundamental rule is that macros execute one action per line. (Excluding “/wait”)
2. It is not possible to automate things nor call other macros within a macro.

Due to the aforementioned reasons, we do not plan to expand macros and we appreciate your understanding.

Okay than, can you up the amount of line's than?

[Jerbob]

The arguments against third party applications seem to boil down to the fact that they are not fair. They confer significant advantages that not everyone wants to, or is able to make use of. That is indisputible. Whether that's okay or not seems to be open to interpretation. I would personally say that it is not okay.

[Zerich]

The arguments against third party applications seem to boil down to the fact that they are not fair. They confer significant advantages that not everyone wants to, or is able to make use of. That is indisputible. Whether that's okay or not seems to be open to interpretation. I would personally say that it is not okay.

how are they not fair? the average household in the countries that this game supports, generally has access to a personal computer. use half a brain cell with google, and you'll realize the notion of "unfair" boils down to "stubborn".

[FrankReynolds]

I think limiting the number lf equips you can change is good. It adds an element of choice and strategy, instead of just getting the best equipment and everyone being identical due to OCD.

The problem is more that SE don't care about people who use third party programs. It puts the rest of the playerbase at a disadvantage.

Either SE needs to allow full gear swaps, or they need to be tougher on 3rd party tools. To be bonest, I'd rather see the second option.

I looked in the fridge today and saw that there was a carton of eggs, a pack of bacon and some bread. I decided that I was going to make scrambled eggs, bacon and toast for breakfast.

My girlfriend said "You can't have scrambled eggs toast and bacon. You can only have one of those things. I'm throwing the rest out. Sorry that you bought them. But look, I gave you a choice. Isn't that fun?"

I said "But why would you only want one thing for breakfast when you could have three?"

She said "it has always been my intention to never dirty more than one pan when making breakfast"

I said "fine,I will cook the bacon and the eggs and toast in the same pan."

She stared blankly and then threw my eggs and bacon in the trash, so I threw her out of my house. As she was walking to her car, some guy proceeded to tell me how mean I was and that being mean to her wouldn't make her change her mind. My neighbors all said in unison "Who the hell are you? Mind your own business."

[cidbahamut]

Variety through malnutrition!

Huzzah!

[FrankReynolds]

Variety through malnutrition!

Huzzah!

She wasn't taking away my bacon and eggs. She was giving me a choice so that my breakfast would be more fun. ;)

[Jerbob]

how are they not fair? the average household in the countries that this game supports, generally has access to a personal computer. use half a brain cell with google, and you'll realize the notion of "unfair" boils down to "stubborn".
I can see your argument but I think it's necessary to be practical about this. A large number of people use FFXI on a platform that does not support third party applications. Another group of people do not use third party applications because they are in violation of the terms of service or because they object to there being differences in the level of gameplay provided by different platforms. This will not change. Of course I agree that people can swap to using a PC or ignore the terms of service, but they should not have to, nor should their choice be considered a bad one so that people can justify using these programs.

The concept of "fairness" is pretty nebulous at the best of times but I think that it's pretty hard to claim that a third party/non-third party comparison isn't objectively unfair. It may or may not be stubbornness that causes people to use consoles or refuse to use third party programs, but that's kind of irrelevant for as long as consoles are supported platforms and those programs remain in violation of the terms of service.

[Westyle]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to let you know that we understand everyone's viewpoints as to why swapping additional gear via macros would be favorable, and to some, it may not.

The following policies were established from the beginning after thoroughly exploring the macro feature:

1. The fundamental rule is that macros execute one action per line. (Excluding “/wait”)
2. It is not possible to automate things nor call other macros within a macro.

Due to the aforementioned reasons, we do not plan to expand macros and we appreciate your understanding.

Calling up an equipment set is considered "automation?" I don't see how anything can be exploited by people quickly switching armor. I see this as a well overdue and needed change.

Right now I have to switch between two separate lines of macros to be efficient at my job, and even then I'm still missing some things I need. And hitting more than 1 macro to do an ability? That just doesn't happen.
I had two macros set up for Sneak Attack once, one for 6 pieces of equipment and one with 5 pieces + Sneak Attack. This also meant I needed 2 macros to switch back to TP gear. What happened? The first macro would get the shaft because I'd either forget or need to quickly use Sneak Attack and hit it's macro out of need or reflex.

Macros are already stored client side anyway, so what's the issue with expansion?

[Rosina]

@ cid, zerich and frank

you guys need to stop being trolls and start acting a bit more decently. Just because people do not agree with you, doesn't make them trolls. Just because people play differently then you, don't mean they suck.

Gear swap though helpful isn't really manditory. I solo some abby NM w/o gear swaping and one. I tanked some IT mobs solo and never died. (@ 75 cap) All gear swap does is just increase output making fights a tad easier.

But really all you guys are doing is hurting your suggestion by insulting anyone who disagrees. I pretty much did try to warn you this maybe the responce you will get. All macros are, are basic scripting.

If anyone played an MUD is the basic way people those. You do a series of slash commands and just type in the trigger for each command. But each aspect of the command needs to be on a seperate line unless its like a sub command much like <wait#>. And as far as I know gear coomands may not beable to be used through sub commands do to the nature it.

[Zerich]

I can see your argument but I think it's necessary to be practical about this. A large number of people use FFXI on a platform that does not support third party applications. Another group of people do not use third party applications because they are in violation of the terms of service or because they object to there being differences in the level of gameplay provided by different platforms. This will not change. Of course I agree that people can swap to using a PC or ignore the terms of service, but they should not have to, nor should their choice be considered a bad one so that people can justify using these programs.

The concept of "fairness" is pretty nebulous at the best of times but I think that it's pretty hard to claim that a third party/non-third party comparison isn't objectively unfair. It may or may not be stubbornness that causes people to use consoles or refuse to use third party programs, but that's kind of irrelevant for as long as consoles are supported platforms and those programs remain in violation of the terms of service.

It is breaking ToS, yes. That's all you've established. But you've yet to debunk the claim of "stubbornness"

Stubborn: Having or showing dogged determination not to change one's attitude or position on something, esp. in spite of good arguments or reasons...

[Afania]

how are they not fair? the average household in the countries that this game supports, generally has access to a personal computer. use half a brain cell with google, and you'll realize the notion of "unfair" boils down to "stubborn".

Stubborn or not does not change the fact that using windower is against ToS(and by this time, admitted by SE that it's against design intention). You're basically telling everyone to cheat or else you're stubborn.

[Zerich]

Stubborn or not does not change the fact that using windower is against ToS(and by this time, admitted by SE that it's against design intention). You're basically telling everyone to cheat or else you're stubborn.

I am not telling anyone to "cheat" or break their ToS.
I am pointing out that crying about unfair advantages, because someone plays on a console, is nothing but being stubborn.

And Rosa, no one cares about your claims on soloing IT mobs and NMs in Abyssea, most WHMs can do the same.

[FrankReynolds]

I could have sworn that this thread was about getting some of the functionality that is widely used anyways into the game in a legitimate manner. Why are we debating whether third party apps are unfair? We all know they are unfair. If they were okay in general, no one would ask SE to change anything. They would all be over at the windower forums instead.

The point is that there are some much needed changes to the basic functionality of the game and other groups have already made major inroads to fixing them. This is much like prohibition. You make something that the vast majority of people want illegal, and you don't stop it. You just make a few people rich and a lot of people suffer.

[Jerbob]

It is breaking ToS, yes. That's all you've established. But you've yet to debunk the claim of "stubbornness"

Stubborn: Having or showing dogged determination not to change one's attitude or position on something, esp. in spite of good arguments or reasons...
It's easy to make generalisations about people and their situations without being realistic. A mass transition away from platforms that do not support third party applications is simply not going to happen for a whole host of reasons that are often far more complex than stubbornness. It is not possible to generalise. It's only necessary to visit one of the PS2 discussion threads to see a few of these reasons, of varying validity. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with any of them, but they are there.

Once it is accepted that there will always be people with valid reasons not to migrate to platforms that support third party applications, the question of whether it's fair arises again. The very fact that things are unfair with respect to people who have no reasonable choice in terms of platform - reasonable here in the context of a game, meaning people aren't going to go out of their way to make platform changes - is one of your definition of stubbornness' "good arguments". Breaking the ToS, I would argue, is a second, though apparently not everyone agrees on this point.

[fake edit] Yes, this is getting kind of off topic so I will stop here.

[Nala]

Rosina you're the last person who should be calling any one a troll and i didn't realize whiteknight err onion was related to you.

There are methods to stream line macro execution but the methodology is still cumbersome and any mistakes made when pressing the macro's can find you in the wrong pallet and unable to execute other actions without re-executing one of the other macros in the chain.

The /set macro commands were a nice bone for consoles but still a farcry from a true equalizer. This ought to be a bigger concern for the Dev team vice many other minuscule and minute changes that they have planning. That or the whole gear design concept needs to be overhauled so that we have 1 do all be all sets and disable gear swapping all together (don't you f'n dare this is sarcasm)

[Phogg]

I am not telling anyone to "cheat" or break their ToS.
I am pointing out that crying about unfair advantages, because someone plays on a console, is nothing but being stubborn.

And Rosa, no one cares about your claims on soloing IT mobs and NMs in Abyssea, most WHMs can do the same.

Huh? Um, what? So if someone bought this game for Xbox and is watching others exploit features which both violate the ToS and have now been announced in an explicit fashion by the Devs/Reps as not being something they will look to implement/change, what exactly does "being stubborn" have to do with this scenario? Expecting the game to operate evenly across supported platforms has nothing, at all, to do with being stubborn. It clearly offers a certain segment of the player base an advantage over others.

That is about fairness, and fair play. If the game is supported on platforms that do not allow access to these third party applications, that is a fairness issue. Its really none of your business what platform people choose to play on, and has nothing to do with the underlying issue.

[cidbahamut]

Huh? Um, what? So if someone bought this game for Xbox and is watching others exploit features which both violate the ToS and have now been announced in an explicit fashion by the Devs/Reps as not being something they will look to implement/change, what exactly does "being stubborn" have to do with this scenario? Expecting the game to operate evenly across supported platforms has nothing, at all, to do with being stubborn. It clearly offers a certain segment of the player base an advantage over others.

That is about fairness, and fair play. If the game is supported on platforms that do not allow access to these third party applications, that is a fairness issue. Its really none of your business what platform people choose to play on, and has nothing to do with the underlying issue.

If it's about fairness of play then folks should be totally on board for lobbying for improvements to the vanilla client. The PC community already has access to a vastly superior experience via third party improvements. That's not going away. What we can do is encourage SE to step up its game and make improvements to the vanilla client that rival the improvements made by third party developers. It's the best of both worlds that way.

[Zerich]

Huh? Um, what? So if someone bought this game for Xbox and is watching others exploit features which both violate the ToS and have now been announced in an explicit fashion by the Devs/Reps as not being something they will look to implement/change, what exactly does "being stubborn" have to do with this scenario? Expecting the game to operate evenly across supported platforms has nothing, at all, to do with being stubborn. It clearly offers a certain segment of the player base an advantage over others.

That is about fairness, and fair play. If the game is supported on platforms that do not allow access to these third party applications, that is a fairness issue. Its really none of your business what platform people choose to play on, and has nothing to do with the underlying issue.

it's not any of my business, that's right. however, this game can run on nearly any p.o.s. pc from walmart.

[Phogg]

If it's about fairness of play then folks should be totally on board for lobbying for improvements to the vanilla client. The PC community already has access to a vastly superior experience via third party improvements. That's not going away. What we can do is encourage SE to step up its game and make improvements to the vanilla client that rival the improvements made by third party developers. It's the best of both worlds that way.

I'm not arguing the UI should not be improved. I am fully on board with that, things like displaying TP and distance, improved macros, etc., I'm all for it.

What I'm arguing is its completely irrelevant to suggest that because someone plays on an Xbox or PS2 that those end users are somehow responsible for their UI experience because they are "stubborn". Its just a stupid argument with no relevance. The fact is, two platforms which are officially supported do not have equal access to third party "improvements", which creates an issue regarding fairness.

I'm with you, the solution is to fix the UI, not act like a troll because some people choose to play on one of the other supported platforms rather than need to both repurchase the game and buy a "p.o.s. pc from walmart" when they already have a perfectly capable platform to play on.

BTW, I play on a PC so I don't even have a dog in the fight on that end, I just have an aversion to stupid arguments that do nothing to promote actually fixing the issues.

[cidbahamut]

I'm with you, the solution is to fix the UI, not act like a troll because some people choose to play on one of the other supported platforms rather than need to both repurchase the game and buy a "p.o.s. pc from walmart" when they already have a perfectly capable platform to play on.


Fair enough. I'm not arguing that point one way or the other.

My beef is with people who are actively arguing against improving the game.

[FrankReynolds]

5156156151

[Rosina]

I am not telling anyone to "cheat" or break their ToS.
I am pointing out that crying about unfair advantages, because someone plays on a console, is nothing but being stubborn.

And Rosa, no one cares about your claims on soloing IT mobs and NMs in Abyssea, most WHMs can do the same.

ya with gear swap...big deal.

[cidbahamut]

ya with gear swap...big deal.

You really have no idea how big a deal, do you?

[Smeggles]

The biggest problem I have with all the people supporting SE's stance on this and SE's stance is this:

WE ALREADY GEAR SWAP AS MUCH AS WE WANT! All we are asking for is not to have to use 3 macros to put the gear on, then 3 macros to change it back. This is a QUALITY OF LIFE issue.

Please note again, you aren't enabling us to do something new - we ALREADY DO IT!!!!!! It's just a pain in the ass to have to use so many macros to do it.

[Jackstin]

I looked in the fridge today and saw that there was a carton of eggs, a pack of bacon and some bread. I decided that I was going to make scrambled eggs, bacon and toast for breakfast.

My girlfriend said "You can't have scrambled eggs toast and bacon. You can only have one of those things. I'm throwing the rest out. Sorry that you bought them. But look, I gave you a choice. Isn't that fun?"

I said "But why would you only want one thing for breakfast when you could have three?"

She said "it has always been my intention to never dirty more than one pan when making breakfast"

I said "fine,I will cook the bacon and the eggs and toast in the same pan."

She stared blankly and then threw my eggs and bacon in the trash, so I threw her out of my house. As she was walking to her car, some guy proceeded to tell me how mean I was and that being mean to her wouldn't make her change her mind. My neighbors all said in unison "Who the hell are you? Mind your own business."

Final Fantasy XI is a game. One of the distinguishing features of a game is its limits. Roleplaying games in particular are known for being large scale games underpinned by core rules. Your real life analogies aren't equivalents.

My point is simple, I'm going to use White Mage as an example because it is the one job I've found people pressure you into using windower. If you can change every piece of gear then for HMP you just buy a load of MP healing equips, for Idle, you just stack a load of refreshes together, haste is self explanatory, PDT. Everyone has the same gearsets! The only thing that separates people is how much time they've devoted to getting every single good piece.

Now I'm going to limit you to changing six pieces, and keeping the rest static. Which six pieces would you choose? Would you make the static pieces all round pieces, or maybe you'd specialise in healing, or fast cast, or you just want a fat stack of MP. When you get Arka IV you may no longer have to switch in Facio Bliaut so you have the future to think about as well. If nobody was allowed to use these third party tools then the game could become more strategic and interesting.

[cidbahamut]

My point is simple, I'm going to use White Mage as an example because it is the one job I've found people pressure you into using windower. If you can change every piece of gear then for HMP you just buy a load of MP healing equips, for Idle, you just stack a load of refreshes together, haste is self explanatory, PDT. Everyone has the same gearsets! The only thing that separates people is how much time they've devoted to getting every single good piece.


And this would be different from any other game on the market...how exactly?

[Nala]

See there isnt a limit if you know what you're doing and how much BS you want to put up with to achieve it, with 3 in game macros set up properly i can press control 1 3x in rapid succession and change out 15 pieces of gear. why do i need to do it like that though? its beyond silly retarded or otherwise bad game design.

Further more as it stands third party programs allow a much more intuitive method of gear swapping then straight macros, you talk about every whm having the same sets, well WHM1 using 3rd party doesnt even have to worry about hitting macros to put on said sets meaning thier ability to react to the need of the situation is .5 seconds perhaps even a full 1.5 seconds faster then WHM2 who's using in game macros.

Considering SE has taken a blind eye approach to windower as it stands why would you be against them adding in features that level the playing field legally? your whole trip about limitations is BS basically because they don't truly exist, the only limit is how good you are at using the in game macros.

Also you talk about making the game more stratigic by gimping player performance? most of the NMs currently are developed around the fact that peeps can have full PDT/MDT, TP, WS, nuking, curing, refresh, haste, HMP sets depending on the job, not to mention nothing in this game can be considered stratigic when you have a BROKEN emity system and NM's that have i win buttons.

[Jackstin]

And this would be different from any other game on the market...how exactly?

Ah videogame enthusiasts. Aspiring to conventional mediocrity since the 80s.

[SpankWustler]

Which six pieces would you choose?

I choose to slowly develop chronic stress injuries in my hands and wrists as I hit six or more macros to perform every action and switch back to my idle set after each action.

As my hands contort into beast-like claws and my heart fills with vengeance, I become more like a plotting super-villain each day.

[Jackstin]

See there isnt a limit if you know what you're doing and how much BS you want to put up with to achieve it, with 3 in game macros set up properly i can press control 1 3x in rapid succession and change out 15 pieces of gear. why do i need to do it like that though? its beyond silly retarded or otherwise bad game design.

Further more as it stands third party programs allow a much more intuitive method of gear swapping then straight macros, you talk about every whm having the same sets, well WHM1 using 3rd party doesnt even have to worry about hitting macros to put on said sets meaning thier ability to react to the need of the situation is .5 seconds perhaps even a full 1.5 seconds faster then WHM2 who's using in game macros.

Considering SE has taken a blind eye approach to windower as it stands why would you be against them adding in features that level the playing field legally? your whole trip about limitations is BS basically because they don't truly exist, the only limit is how good you are at using the in game macros.

As I said before I would be in favour of both allowing full gear swaps, and being way more strict with the banning of windower, for precisely that reason, because it isn't fair that some players have a huge advantage.

However of those two options I would EASILY prefer the ban hammer route, because it makes the game more of a game and less of an addiction.

[cidbahamut]

I choose to slowly develop chronic stress injuries in my hands and wrists as I hit six or more macros to perform every action and switch back to my idle set after each action.

As my hands contort into beast-like claws and my heart fills with vengeance, I become more like a plotting super-villain each day.

Been there.
Done that.

Still waiting on the T-shirt...

[Jackstin]

I choose to slowly develop chronic stress injuries in my hands and wrists as I hit six or more macros to perform every action and switch back to my idle set after each action.

As my hands contort into beast-like claws and my heart fills with vengeance, I become more like a plotting super-villain each day.
Or you could have one button press but only change 5 carefully chosen pieces.

[Zerich]

I choose to slowly develop chronic stress injuries in my hands and wrists as I hit six or more macros to perform every action and switch back to my idle set after each action.

As my hands contort into beast-like claws and my heart fills with vengeance, I become more like a plotting super-villain each day.

Spank has formed the only logical argument against gearswapping

Let's take this moment in.

[Nala]

Ah videogame enthusiasts. Aspiring to conventional mediocrity since the 80s.

Don't quite get it, cid was pointing out that 11 is unique in that it allows active battle gear swaps, by limiting swapping how would 11 differ from any other standard MMO on the market, furthermore aspiring to gear swap more pieces more often seems a far cry from aspiring to mediocrity.

[Jackstin]

Don't quite get it, cid was pointing out that 11 is unique in that it allows active battle gear swaps, by limiting swapping how would 11 differ from any other standard MMO on the market, furthermore aspiring to gear swap more pieces more often seems a far cry from aspiring to mediocrity.
No he wasn't. He was saying that it is a good thing that like every other MMO an FF11 game with unlimited gear swaps encourages everyone to grind for the same best equipment. It was me who was hailing FF11s unique gear swap mechanic, and I truly believe that. Saying that you can swap 6 pieces is genius and opens up so much in terms of tactics and variety. Allowing unlimited gear swaps just encourages everyone to get the same uber gear, making it like every other unimaginative MMO out there.

[cidbahamut]

Putting words in my mouth...Kids these days.

Junior here thinks that if we force everyone to gimp it up we'll somehow achieve "more tactical gameplay" and that everyone will get to be a unique snowflake. He complains that right now, and I quote:

Everyone has the same gearsets! The only thing that separates people is how much time they've devoted to getting every single good piece.

While failing to realize that this is the exact same situation in every single game on the market. There is always a metagame and it always means everyone ends up wearing the same gear. If anything, FFXI's flexibility with so many different moving parts to the gear equation means that there are vastly more options for gear oneself in this game than in any other.

[Demon6324236]

No he wasn't. He was saying that it is a good thing that like every other MMO an FF11 game with unlimited gear swaps encourages everyone to grind for the same best equipment. It was me who was hailing FF11s unique gear swap mechanic, and I truly believe that. Saying that you can swap 6 pieces is genius and opens up so much in terms of tactics and variety. Allowing unlimited gear swaps just encourages everyone to get the same uber gear, making it like every other unimaginative MMO out there.

You show me the ultimate sets of gear for any job that can not be improved in any way and many players can get their hands on, wont happen. Even if people could pin it down to the absolute best possible sets for a job it wouldn't matter because I am 99% sure some gear is out of reach to most players like a Toci's or something with an absurdly low drop rate. The goal is to get them, and everyone has their own path, that path is different for alot of people.

[Demon6324236]

FFXI's flexibility with so many different moving parts to the gear equation means that there are vastly more options for gear oneself in this game than in any other.

I like this.

[Jackstin]

Oh wow, resorting to calling me a child, that's very mature (see what I did there?)

You are wrong in saying that meta games always end up with everyone having identical characters. It is true in that obsessives always try to abuse the game to create uber template characters, but a well designed game will make this difficult. Pokemon has done this, precisely by placing restrictions.

Your idea that anyone who doesn't use full gear swaps is gimping it up is precisely what is wrong with this game. Full gear swaps do not give people more options. An option is a choice between this or that. Windower lets you have your cake and eat it.

[Jackstin]

You show me the ultimate sets of gear for any job that can not be improved in any way and many players can get their hands on, wont happen. Even if people could pin it down to the absolute best possible sets for a job it wouldn't matter because I am 99% sure some gear is out of reach to most players like a Toci's or something with an absurdly low drop rate. The goal is to get them, and everyone has their own path, that path is different for alot of people.

You've hit the nail on the head. With windower the destination is the same, but the path is different. Without windower the destination AND the path are different.

[Demon6324236]

You've hit the nail on the head. With windower the destination is the same, but the path is different. Without windower the destination AND the path are different.

Without Windower, we do exactly what Spank said...


slowly develop chronic stress injuries in my hands and wrists as I hit six or more macros to perform every action

Windower is not the cause of full set macros, it simply makes them easier to perform and less taxing on our hands.

[Jackstin]

Without Windower, we do exactly what Spank said...



Windower is not the cause of full set macros, it simply makes them easier to perform and less taxing on our hands.

Does anyone really do that though. You technically can, but FF11 frequently requires fast reactions so I can't see it being advantageous.

[Demon6324236]

Does anyone really do that though.

Yes, people do. (http://youtu.be/OKFhHI74hNU)

[Jackstin]

Yes, people do. (http://youtu.be/OKFhHI74hNU)

That does look incredibly painful.

[SpankWustler]

Does anyone really do that though. You technically can, but FF11 frequently requires fast reactions so I can't see it being advantageous.

It's what my best friend does when she plays on PS2. It's what I did for a time when the thing wouldn't do things to the other things and make stuff do stuff to the thing with the thing, maybe.

Obviously it's not something I would recommend for a Stun or Sudden Lunge macro, but it's closer to ideal than the alternative for most things because it allows a non-horrid idle set for a mage and better weaponskill sets for a melee.


Been there.
Done that.

Still waiting on the T-shirt...

Here you go!

http://westernrifleshooters.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/the_claw_beware_the_claw_tshirt-p235187034936131752z7bdv_400.jpg

The slogan simultaneously establishes you as a threatening super-villain and warns others about succumbing to the same condition.

[SNK]

Does anyone really do that though. You technically can, but FF11 frequently requires fast reactions so I can't see it being advantageous.

Yes people do. Should look up Avesta sometime on youtube.

[Nala]

Thats the same style macros i employ as well, and yes its terrible but it gets the job done, its senseless that we cant just accomplish the swap with a single action vice 3x or more depending on JA's used inbetween ect.

[Rosina]

You really have no idea how big a deal, do you?

you don't get what I said then.. if a person who don't gear swap can do something just as well as another person who does gear swap... what does that say about the non gear swaper?

@ nala you don't get what troll means.... ~.~ you just did something "trollish" which is insulting a person saying "white knight" like a 4 year old... are you infact 4 years old? if not.. why act like it?

as for everyone insulting everyone., STOP its not helping your suggestion. I really hope SE CS forum ppl craxk down on the insults you guys fling every two seconds. I don't use insults. I just point out how u act and just as be polite. I try to say my peace.

If anyone where played an MUD.. you can't streamline ,acros like you guys think you can. And the more lines you put the more automated it does get. I'm wondering why ppl are complaining about playing a game and pressing buttons. Most of games outside ff were button mashers.

[Zerich]

you don't get what I said then.. if a person who don't gear swap can do something just as well as another person who does gear swap... what does that say about the non gear swaper?

@ nala you don't get what troll means.... ~.~ you just did something "trollish" which is insulting a person saying "white knight" like a 4 year old... are you infact 4 years old? if not.. why act like it?

as for everyone insulting everyone., STOP its not helping your suggestion. I really hope SE CS forum ppl craxk down on the insults you guys fling every two seconds. I don't use insults. I just point out how u act and just as be polite. I try to say my peace.

If anyone where played an MUD.. you can't streamline ,acros like you guys think you can. And the more lines you put the more automated it does get. I'm wondering why ppl are complaining about playing a game and pressing buttons. Most of games outside ff were button mashers.

Stop posting, you are not not welcome to any player-base with cognitive reasoning.

[Demon6324236]

you don't get what I said then.. if a person who don't gear swap can do something just as well as another person who does gear swap... what does that say about the non gear swaper?
I am not telling anyone to "cheat" or break their ToS.
I am pointing out that crying about unfair advantages, because someone plays on a console, is nothing but being stubborn.

And Rosa, no one cares about your claims on soloing IT mobs and NMs in Abyssea, most WHMs can do the same.You find me the WHM who is able to solo IT mobs and NMs in abyssea without gear swaps.

Just to examine, and correct by the way...
if a person who don't gear swap can do something just as well as another person who does gear swap...This is not an if, the person swapping gear WILL do better than the person not. There are 0 instances where you can have perfect gear, that is good for everything, meaning this person not gear swapping, can not ever do just as well as someone gear swapping.

I honestly don't care if you do or do not gear swap, stop saying its not more effective, it is common sense, and it is pure math. You cant argue this, you cant fight this, it is 100%... common... fact!

Lastly...
what does that say about the non gear swaper?It says they are competing with someone who doesn't actually understand how to gear swap properly.

[Westyle]

you don't get what I said then.. if a person who don't gear swap can do something just as well as another person who does gear swap... what does that say about the non gear swaper?

This comes down to skill; if two players are equally skilled then the one with better gear will be most effective. This is a fact supported by the numbers and formulas that calculate damage in this game. You cannot argue this.


@ nala you don't get what troll means.... ~.~ you just did something "trollish" which is insulting a person saying "white knight" like a 4 year old... are you infact 4 years old? if not.. why act like it?

I'm not going to get into an pithy arguments on these boards, but I must say that online your presence is determined by grammar structure and spelling. We cannot hear your tone of voice and cannot read your facial expressions. This will all be assumed in how you present yourself with what's available. In which case, you may need to take a closer look at which one of you appears to be closer to the age of 4.


as for everyone insulting everyone., STOP its not helping your suggestion. I really hope SE CS forum ppl craxk down on the insults you guys fling every two seconds. I don't use insults. I just point out how u act and just as be polite. I try to say my peace.

Getting a GM response because half of the thread is a flame war doesn't really help, but neither does constantly jumping back to the cause of flames.


If anyone where played an MUD.. you can't streamline ,acros like you guys think you can. And the more lines you put the more automated it does get. I'm wondering why ppl are complaining about playing a game and pressing buttons. Most of games outside ff were button mashers.

I don't really see why MUDs are relevant. They're an archaic form of adventure game.

Also people are complaining about "button mashing" because these are long, stretched out, slow, distanced, separated buttons that need to be pressed in sequence to perform a simple task.
Tapping X to punch =/= repetitively holding R then tapping Left and pressing X, then Left and X again, then holding L and tapping Right then X, Right then X to punch. Then to kick you must hold R and Up together with a load delay, and repeat the drawn out process of arrows and X.

[Kitkat]

This is the problem I have on blu, nearly every slot I wear will be changed out when I go from TP to Spell set to WS set, to nuke set, etc. This doesn't just happen on blu, it happens on thf...rdm...war...drk....pretty much any job I play will eventually have it to where 3+ macros need to be hit just for gear alone all because we are limited to 6 slots per macro that can't have simultaneous equips in one line. Even back when I first started at the November release in NA, I noticed very quickly as a rdm that swapping gear would be the bane of my existence throughout the game.

So for 10 years we have patiently dealt with these limitations hoping that one day SE would work in a fix to it such as consolidating commands to one line or expanding the total lines per macro. When SE announced the ability to add <wait> to the same line as another command a fuzzy feeling deep inside were felt, but years later we still have the same issue as we have always had......hitting too many macros to do simple functions. I have various spells set with some equip lines in them to try and deal with these limitations...but I also know that because of this limitation I can't reach full potential without resorting to using a 3rd part program to squeeze in every piece of equipment in less time.

This isn't about being an elitist, it is about being as efficient at a job you enjoy to play as possible, and current macro structure severely limits this. I'm not asking for macros to call up other macros to create an endless loop, I'm asking that developers seriously consider the ability to create item sets that are separate from macros. You access these via the macro sub-menu and create an item set. As the name implies, item set will only allow the use of creating commands that equip gear. Then you add a command line into macros that calls up said item set (as previously mentioned /itemset "name"). This way a macro will look something like this:

/itemset "bluws"
/ws "Chant du cygne" <t> <wait>
/itemset "bluspell"
/equip head "name"
/ja "Chain Affinity" <me>
/ma "Amorphic Spikes" <t>

Instead of:

Macro 1:
/equip head "name"
/equip neck "name"
/equip body "name"
/equip legs "name"
/equip hands "name"
/equip feet "name"

macro 2
/equip ear1 "name"
/equip ear2 "name"
/equip ring1 "name"
/equip ring2 "name"
/equip back "name"
/equip waist "name"

macro 3
/equip ammo "name"
/ws "Chant du Cygne" <t> <wait>
/equip head "name"
/ja "Chain Affinity" <me>
/equip body "name"
/equip neck "name"


macro 4
/equip legs "name"
/equip back "name"
/equip feet "name"
/equip ammo "name"
/equip hands "name"
/equip ring1 "name"

macro 5
/equip ring2 "name"
/equip ear1 "name"
/equip ear2 "name"
/ma "Amorphic spikes" <t>


Then you hit another 3~4 macros to get back in your tp/haste set.

What I reiterate from a prior post stands as a perfect example of why people are complaining about macro as they are or resort to the use of a third party program to swap gear more efficiently. The macro system is significantly flawed and could use an overhaul so that players can utilize the 3-8 gear swap macros for other things such as additional item sets, ws, spells, job abilities and so forth. Currently, if I chose to use everything the way I wanted to I could easily fill up 2, almost 3, macro palette as the current macro system works. Thing is, that is a much more daunting issue when hitting macros is the need to change to a different palette to get to the other macros you need to hit due to the amount you have to hit.


Lastly, people argue valid points to drive the point home to the opposing side, or in this case the opposing side and developer, so that they can see just how problematic it is to those who try to be as efficient at their jobs as possible, but can't due to very obvious limitations. Opposing side can argue to their hearts content that "well they said it isn't happening so stop asking" or "swapping is pointless and unneeded" (seriously?) to their hearts content, but we who deal with this flaw day in and day out will argue it while submitting as much feedback, and ideas, as possible to hopefully bring it to a favorable conclusion.

[cidbahamut]

you don't get what I said then.. if a person who don't gear swap can do something just as well as another person who does gear swap... what does that say about the non gear swaper?

I'm going to refer you to the video posted earlier:
Yes, people do. (http://youtu.be/OKFhHI74hNU)

Go ahead, find me a Red Mage who can fulltime a single gearset and solo Azdaja without using Cruor buffs or Atmas.

That is the magnitude of performance difference between swapping gear and full-timing a single set.

[0nionKn1ght]

Just gonna say it now. I don't believe for one second that anyone on the PC is using 6 macros for one gear switch, and you aren't kidding anyone by saying that you do.

Also the argument about not gear swapping is simply that you are not min/maxing your character. While you may be successful sometimes in doing something like soloing a hard encounter, for the 20 times you, for example, had to Paralyze the target, your gear swapping would give you a 90% success rate on landing the spell, whereas not swapping would give you a 20% success rate (numbers pulled from the other hole by the way).

You can go the whole game without ever switching out gear, but you are making things pointlessly difficult for you, and frustrating for anyone you play with, and also the core mechanic of any MMo is obtaining better gear to go onto better fights, to get better gear, ad infinitum. If you have no intention of getting better gear for better efficiency, the game becomes without any point. If you enjoy it, then fine, enjoy it, but don't get fussy when people you group with call you out on it and kick you as a result.

As an ex-endgame shell leader, I will always give people time and resources to learn this stuff, but if after tirelessly trying to get them to improve, they still continually gimp themselves out of either lazyness or principle, they will become some other shells problem, and not mine.

[Kitkat]

Just gonna say it now. I don't believe for one second that anyone on the PC is using 6 macros for one gear switch, and you aren't kidding anyone by saying that you do.

So sorry you have a hard time believing that on blu I do use upwards of 6 macros within the space of only 15 seconds just to do 3 menial tasks, but I sincerely do go to this extent when swapping gear. 3 to get into WS and use WS, another 3 to get into Spell set and using chain affinity+spell then another 3 to get back into tp set and this isn't counting the use of a totally different WS set for Requiscate let alone when using nukes on blu that typically use different base stats each spell (dex/mab, vit/mab, mnd/mab). On thf I use 3 to get into WS set and I have 3 different WS sets depending on WS I use (Exent, Mercy, Evis).

Why do I do this when I can simply just opt out for a 3rd party tool and do it all within 1 macro? I also use the PS2 version on occasion meaning it is better to stay in practice with the clusterduck of duckery macro system since I might find myself on ps2 version the next time I log in. This isn't just a fix for pc users, it is a fix suggestion for ps2, 360, and pc versions. If you fail to see the importance of making it easier no matter what version you play than I think you've missed the entire point of why people want it in the first place.

[Dreamin]

Running out of popcorn here and going to get some refill. Before I go though, think about this for a min:

SE IS going to be playing favorites to those ppl who is using the PC over Xbox/PS2 in the very soon to be released UI mod such that those playing on the PC will have some UI Personalization/Customization [requires the use of MOUSE]. So some of you guys might want to start chanting 'Unfair' at SE.

Now, let me refill my popcorn and you all can continue to agrue/beat-up on another over how each plays or doesn't play which absolutely has zero impact to each of you individually at all. If anyone who is an 'end game' shell holder and are willing to accept gimps that are unwilling to learn/change, then more/less power to you, it is your choice for your LS and no one else - please feel free to define these terms of 'end game' and 'gimp' to your own personal satisfaction and no need to explain to me/others what you choices are.

[0nionKn1ght]

Running out of popcorn here and going to get some refill. Before I go though, think about this for a min:

SE IS going to be playing favorites to those ppl who is using the PC over Xbox/PS2 in the very soon to be released UI mod such that those playing on the PC will have some UI Personalization/Customization [requires the use of MOUSE]. So some of you guys might want to start chanting 'Unfair' at SE.

Now, let me refill my popcorn and you all can continue to agrue/beat-up on another over how each plays or doesn't play which absolutely has zero impact to each of you individually at all. If anyone who is an 'end game' shell holder and are willing to accept gimps that are unwilling to learn/change, then more/less power to you, it is your choice for your LS and no one else - please feel free to define these terms of 'end game' and 'gimp' to your own personal satisfaction and no need to explain to me/others what you choices are.

Um, no offence but the entire point of a discussion forum is discussion. You know? Offering varying and opposing points to each others debates and reasoning based on presented issues and evicence.

Are you simple?

[Dreamin]

My definition of discussion is an open exchange of ideas between 2 or more parties with each sides having their base idea but willing to listen and ACCEPTED the other side's pov. Accept does not necessarily means you have to gives up YOUR own position but it is nevertheless accepted.

Show me in this thread where a Discussion is happening?

I like simple things. But it's fun watching ppl on here. [pop corn reloaded and ready for entertainment, GO!].

[Nala]

Man has a point neither SE or Rosina are yielding any time soon, hopefully the UI changes will prompt a few console only types to migrate over to PC its not like we need some overly high end system to play 11.

As to my age rosa, i am capable of realizing when i am wrong and take the advice of others. Choosing to completely ignore a well known and widely used game mechanic all the while professing that it is not intended/needed or that you can be just as proficient without utilizing such mechanic is beyond stubborn. Further more when too many people get on your case about your a-typical poor grammar and logic you pull out new and BS health ailments.

Furthermore you get increasingly defensive when your fellow peers (as in people who really have the disorders you claim) get on your case for hiding behind such facades. So who's not acting their age here? I'm not always right about things and i'm willing to admit it when i am proven wrong however, this isn't the first time you've fought this battle and for some reason you have started it anew in practically every thread you participate.

[Volarione]

Um, no offence but the entire point of a discussion forum is discussion. You know? Offering varying and opposing points to each others debates and reasoning based on presented issues and evicence.

Are you simple?

That is his opinion.

Are you simple?

[Zerich]

Man has a point neither SE or Rosina are yielding any time soon, hopefully the UI changes will prompt a few console only types to migrate over to PC its not like we need some overly high end system to play 11.

As to my age rosa, i am capable of realizing when i am wrong and take the advice of others. Choosing to completely ignore a well known and widely used game mechanic all the while professing that it is not intended/needed or that you can be just as proficient without utilizing such mechanic is beyond stubborn. Further more when too many people get on your case about your a-typical poor grammar and logic you pull out new and BS health ailments.

Furthermore you get increasingly defensive when your fellow peers (as in people who really have the disorders you claim) get on your case for hiding behind such facades. So who's not acting their age here? I'm not always right about things and i'm willing to admit it when i am proven wrong however, this isn't the first time you've fought this battle and for some reason you have started it anew in practically every thread you participate.

Nala, she's a troll, just have fun with it.

[Nala]

Heh, don't worry i am she has proven that she can not comprehend as such she will continue her crusade, in the mean time:

With the upcoming UI perhaps could the dev team outline the limits to which user generated plugins may stretch? Using existing plugins as an example, most people know they exist pretending they don't is silly and would best give us an idea of how awesome or disappointing your vision on the new UI is.

[Dragoy]

you guys need to stop being trolls and start acting a bit more decently. Just because people do not agree with you, doesn't make them trolls. Just because people play differently then you, don't mean they suck.

Have you ever heard anything along the lines of “do not feed the troll”? ^^;

Point being, if you feel people are insulting and/or trolling you, it's usually the most easy way out to simply ignore them. You can always report them, and be done with it. Trying to fight them in any way just doesn't work. At least that's what I have seen during well over 15 if not 10 years. It's the internet; it's the norm that such users exist.

Responding to them usually only makes things worse, in other words, gives fuel to the fire.
“Trolls” tend to feed upon the frustration of their targets, and actually enjoy seeing one upset more than anything. So that being said, don't let them win, don't let them get to you! You'll have a lot more fun that way (unless, of course, you actually enjoy all that yourself as well).

Just my thoughts, of course!
(And no, I'm not saying anyone in particular here is a troll, or doing anything wrong. This is just my few gil on the subject at hand).


As for the subject that used to be on that hand, it will definitely be interesting to see (thought I am fully prepared to be disappointed) what they really meant with “The window scheme and GUI scripts for FFXI will be released so users can design their own interface features.”, and it is equally unfortunate to see that they are so adamant about keeping improving the macros out of the development scheme.

We can only hope for the best (or a beast), and keep up the candle!

[Reiterpallasch]

Go ahead, find me a Red Mage who can fulltime a single gearset and solo Azdaja without using Cruor buffs or Atmas.
Well, maybe if they time their 2hr juuuuuust right...

[wish12oz]

Go ahead, find me a Red Mage who can fulltime a single gearset and solo Azdaja without using Cruor buffs or Atmas.

I could do that with crimson pants and 1 piece of refresh gear, just kite it and keep bio on it, wouldnt be hard at all, just take a long time.

[tyrantsyn]

I could do that with crimson pants and 1 piece of refresh gear, just kite it and keep bio on it, wouldnt be hard at all, just take a long time.
This is true.

But I think the point is a gear swapping RDM would out preform the none gear swap per in leap's and bound's.

It's actually to bad for those who aren't into it, it's actually a lot more gratifying after and hour of messing with macro's and gear swap's to go out and output 10 to 24 % more damage. But hey if your having fun doing it your way by all means.

[0nionKn1ght]

But I think the point is a gear swapping RDM would out preform the none gear swap per in leap's and bound's.

http://gifsoup.com/view7/2880285/harry-hill-tv-burp-fight-o.gif

[FrankReynolds]

So I think that by only having six lines in a macro we have created three groups:

a) people too lazy to push 3 buttons for one action.

b) people who go that extra mile to swap all the gear.

c) people who copy an xml sheet and put their gear into it.


I feel like ther's a good chance that most of group B would prefer to use method C if SE put it into the game legitimately.

Group A doesn't seem to make use of what they have available now, so I don;t really think that it should matter what they think about adding more.

On a side note: I think I have earned that T-shirt through many years of soloing sky on Red Mage and I would like to know where to pick it up :P

[tyrantsyn]

http://gifsoup.com/view7/2880285/harry-hill-tv-burp-fight-o.gif

lol that would be great if there wasn't a stun effect every time you swap out gear in pvp.

[Rosina]

you know I said this before... no one I partied with, did abyssea events with, did seal hunts with, hunted hnm for ever said or made comments about my lack of gear swaping in this game. Only people who made comments are you guys. That kinda shpuld tell you something. People who zactually seen me play vs ppl who never seen me play.

Maybe I like the extra risk... Also Zelda is a massive button masher as is any TES game. ffxiv was/is button mashy also with how quickly the skills are used. As for any fighting game your doing completely effed up button comes at a fast rate w/o much of a break. Also you have jobs like data entry, coding, medical coding jobs you having to type fast for hours on end. So this stress injury excuse doesn't hold much water.. I've been gaming for 21 years. since after high school i can play any game button masher or non button masher for 12-20 hours. maybe only breaking for nessity and I don't have any stress injuries, or any sort of issues.

[Demon6324236]

you know I said this before... no one I partied with, did abyssea events with, did seal hunts with, hunted hnm for ever said or made comments about my lack of gear swaping in this game. Only people who made comments are you guys. That kinda shpuld tell you something. People who zactually seen me play vs ppl who never seen me play.

Maybe I like the extra risk... Also Zelda is a massive button masher as is any TES game. ffxiv was/is button mashy also with how quickly the skills are used. As for any fighting game your doing completely effed up button comes at a fast rate w/o much of a break. Also you have jobs like data entry, coding, medical coding jobs you having to type fast for hours on end. So this stress injury excuse doesn't hold much water.. I've been gaming for 21 years. since after high school i can play any game button masher or non button masher for 12-20 hours. maybe only breaking for nessity and I don't have any stress injuries, or any sort of issues.

Just please stop posting argumentative comments...

[cidbahamut]

you know I said this before... no one I partied with, did abyssea events with, did seal hunts with, hunted hnm for ever said or made comments about my lack of gear swaping in this game. Only people who made comments are you guys. That kinda shpuld tell you something.

It tells me that the people you play with are either too polite to let you know you are bad at the game, or that they are just as bad at the game as you are.




Maybe I like the extra risk... Also Zelda is a massive button masher as is any TES game. ffxiv was/is button mashy also with how quickly the skills are used. As for any fighting game your doing completely effed up button comes at a fast rate w/o much of a break. Also you have jobs like data entry, coding, medical coding jobs you having to type fast for hours on end. So this stress injury excuse doesn't hold much water.. I've been gaming for 21 years. since after high school i can play any game button masher or non button masher for 12-20 hours. maybe only breaking for nessity and I don't have any stress injuries, or any sort of issues.
Shut up. Shut up right now.
Playing Red Mage gave me a repetitive stress injury that forced me to change my entire computer setup. I had to get new ergonomic keyboards, switched to using trackballs and had to sleep in wrist splints for months to get it all under control. I was literally unable to play the game my wrists and hands hurt so badly.

You absolutely do not get to walk in here and tell me that the repetitive motions of using macros do not induce repetitive stress injuries when I have experienced this firsthand as a direct result of playing FFXI.

You don't know what you're talking about, so shut up and walk away.

[Demon6324236]

Shut up right now Rosina.Fighting with Rosina only leads to more fighting with Rosina, you are fighting a battle that will never be won because no matter what you say they keep responding. I have learned over the last week that about the only way you will get Rosina to shut up, is to shut up yourself. By responding the way you are now you simply provoke a response from the other side causing an argument that is still going and has been. This will not stop till one side stops fighting, and Rosina is fighting on alot of threads at the same time with no sign of quitting, your best hope at victory is to not even fight, without you fighting, the battle dies on its own, and you are left in peace.

[cidbahamut]

Most of what she says is just infuriating, but when she brushes aside RSIs it gets personal. I was effectively locked out of FFXI for several months dealing with repetitive stress injuries brought on by the game and I still have to take steps to keep it under control even now. I'm not going to let that slide uncontested.

[Demon6324236]

Most of what she says is just infuriating, but when she brushes aside RSIs it gets personal. I was effectively locked out of FFXI for several months dealing with repetitive stress injuries brought on by the game and I still have to take steps to keep it under control even now. I'm not going to let that slide uncontested.

I understand why it makes you angry, but so long as you fight her about it she is just going to keep up with it. I refuse to call anyone a troll, goes against me as I am because I find it to be an overused stupid insult, but it seems like by most definitions thats what Rosina does. Wanting to speak up against someone being ignorant, and acting like this is good but at this point it is just feeding the flames that are burning down threads over and over again. If you want to continue then so be it, but it will do nothing but make this flame continue so far as it seems to me.

[Trumpy]

i see many broken records in these threads. who cares how she plays? let her play how she plays. if it truly bothers u if ur even on her server just dont do anything she is involved in. this is a game and games are designed to be fun and if its fun for her to do it how she likes, screw it.

i feel like when rosina is involved the situation is generally blown out of proportion by the other side (usually due to personal feelings of dislike of her), and her side ends up being her defending herself. it almost always goes way off topic.

i wish more people in this world had a "who cares" attitude. this is the internet ladies and gentlemens, in the end she doesnt care what u think and u dont care what she thinks, so it will be a never ending battle as demon says.

[Arcon]

i see many broken records in these threads. who cares how she plays? let her play how she plays. if it truly bothers u if ur even on her server just dont do anything she is involved in. this is a game and games are designed to be fun and if its fun for her to do it how she likes, screw it.

You're just as wrong about everything you just said as she is. No one cares how she plays. Seriously, no one. At all. Not one bit. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

Our problem with her is of an entirely different nature. It's that she boasts her playstyle and tries to justify it (which she doesn't even need to) by lying and telling us "it doesn't make that much of a difference". That's a complete and outright fabrication. She is the one who felt it was necessary to protect her playstyle. And in doing so, she starts to spew bullshit wherever she can. And that's what annoys us.

I know some people who don't change gear at all and many who do it within the confines of the game's limitations. I have no problem whatsoever with them and I like them more than many people who are top-notch and swap gear like crazy. It has nothing at all to do with that. She already thinks we're attacking her playstyle, don't feed further into her delusions as well.

[Trumpy]

I must have missed this boasting. i see her mention her play style and 50 people jump down her throat with the same arguments i read in 50 other threads before. and any repeats of said play style is simple defense of herself. i think someone else has brought up the gear swap thing in nearly every thread ive seen rosina post in no matter the topic of said thread. and if its not that its backhanded comments, that are utterly uncalled for. It reminds me of bullies and im truly sick of reading it. Im not for or against her play style either, just against the constant bickering (which rarely is started by her).

most of you do attack her play style tho (if she doesnt need to defend it, it doesnt matter, But you know she will defend it anyway as she has in the past so you know what is comin when she is attacked.). So she doesnt gear swap, she prefers it that way, then there is 4 post sayin she is against it when she cares not if you or anyone else does it. (which is the start of blowing it out of proportion) theres a difference between against it and just not doin it. (note i gear swap) Has she said exactly that not gear swapping is exactly as effiicient as swappin? i think ive read her say swappin was in fact more efficient here and there. What i have read her say is not swappin can still get the job done.

its just like when people astral burned. i didnt care if people did it but i sure as hell wasnt goin to do it myself. even to this day people from my LS say i was against it. i wasnt, it just wasnt for me.

My point is if u dont care why continue on and on and on and on. If i was wrong (and u truly dont care) you wouldnt constantly enter this same tired debate. People just need to get out of each others business and just worry bout themselves.

In the end this thread isnt bout the pros and cons of gear swapping but more along the lines of a request for being able to swap more than 6 lines worth of gear and the retardedness of havin to hit 3 macros to change every slot of gear for one action (and 3 more to go back to your default gear). please stay on target and leave tiddly wink debate on the worth of gearswappin out.

I think suggestion 2 would be best and most applicable.

[Zerich]

I must have missed this boasting. i see her mention her play style and 50 people jump down her throat with the same arguments i read in 50 other threads before. and any repeats of said play style is simple defense of herself. i think someone else has brought up the gear swap thing in nearly every thread ive seen rosina post in no matter the topic of said thread. and if its not that its backhanded comments, that are utterly uncalled for. It reminds me of bullies and im truly sick of reading it. Im not for or against her play style either, just against the constant bickering (which rarely is started by her).

most of you do attack her play style tho (if she doesnt need to defend it, it doesnt matter, But you know she will defend it anyway as she has in the past so you know what is comin when she is attacked.). So she doesnt gear swap, she prefers it that way, then there is 4 post sayin she is against it when she cares not if you or anyone else does it. (which is the start of blowing it out of proportion) theres a difference between against it and just not doin it. (note i gear swap) Has she said exactly that not gear swapping is exactly as effiicient as swappin? i think ive read her say swappin was in fact more efficient here and there. What i have read her say is not swappin can still get the job done.

its just like when people astral burned. i didnt care if people did it but i sure as hell wasnt goin to do it myself. even to this day people from my LS say i was against it. i wasnt, it just wasnt for me.

My point is if u dont care why continue on and on and on and on. If i was wrong (and u truly dont care) you wouldnt constantly enter this same tired debate. People just need to get out of each others business and just worry bout themselves.

In the end this thread isnt bout the pros and cons of gear swapping but more along the lines of a request for being able to swap more than 6 lines worth of gear and the retardedness of havin to hit 3 macros to change every slot of gear for one action (and 3 more to go back to your default gear). please stay on target and leave tiddly wink debate on the worth of gearswappin out.

I think suggestion 2 would be best and most applicable.

She doesn't only defend it, she also says that it is the way the game is meant to be played, and is in fact the best way for it to be played. Also, gear swapping=cheating.

[Arcon]

I must have missed this boasting.

Then you didn't read anything she said at all, because that's pretty much every post of her summed up.

[Trumpy]

she said it was originally intended to be played that way. just like the ninja tank example given above. it may have lost translation as does everything as the argument continued and tempers become heated. and best way to play for her maybe. was the swappin=cheating said like a year ago? did she say that in this thread? i dunno i think maybe she changed her mind (i dont know if this is true) on the issue as she mentioned it was a more efficient way in this same post? are people allowed to change their minds?

Either way i seem to be missing what your opinion is on the actual purpose of this thread? would you like to see a way to gear swap every slot in one shot (other than using the windower)?

[Zerich]

she said it was originally intended to be played that way. just like the ninja tank example given above. it may have lost translation as does everything as the argument continued and tempers become heated. and best way to play for her maybe. was the swappin=cheating said like a year ago? did she say that in this thread? i dunno i think maybe she changed her mind (i dont know if this is true) on the issue as she mentioned it was a more efficient way in this same post? are people allowed to change their minds?

Either way i seem to be missing what your opinion is on the actual purpose of this thread? would you like to see a way to gear swap every slot in one shot (other than using the windower)?

Yes, but according to MUDs that isn't possible. inb4 Rosa = tanaka

[Trumpy]

verb (used without object)
1.
to speak with exaggeration and excessive pride, especially about oneself.
2.
to speak with pride (often followed by of): He boasted of his family's wealth.

Talkin of your own play style =/= boasting. talking of how with your play style you soloed the world maybe. akin to braggin about oneself. I dont see where she has said she has done spectacular things with her play style. only that people have accepted or just DGAF about her play style.

Now here is my turn to be the broken record:
Either way i seem to be missing what your opinion is on the actual purpose of this thread? would you like to see a way to gear swap every slot in one shot (other than using the windower)?

[Trumpy]

which part of my post according to MUDs isnt possible?

[Zerich]

which part of my post according to MUDs isnt possible?

read rosa's posts.

[Trumpy]

i did, still not seein what it had to do with my quoted post or FFXI as it isnt a MUD?

[Zerich]

i did, still not seein what it had to do with my quoted post or FFXI as it isnt a MUD?

but according to them, that's one of the reasons that gear swapping is cheating, since apparently that wasn;t present in them.

(sarcasm)

[Trumpy]

is ur MUD post something actually on topic? i can see how it would relate to suggestion number 1 if i am understandin Rosas post clearly, but for suggestion 2 it wouldnt apply.

Seems to me the way #2 would work is youd have a separate menu that had gear sets (similiar to your equip screen) and you name said sets. and then reference them in one command by name. /equip set TP

[Zerich]

is ur MUD post something actually on topic? i can see how it would relate to suggestion number 1 if i am understandin Rosas post clearly, but for suggestion 2 it wouldnt apply.

Seems to me the way #2 would work is youd have a separate menu that had gear sets (similiar to your equip screen) and you name said sets. and then reference them in one command by name. /equip set TP

Everything that was to be said about the main topic was basically already said. The last 10ish pages has just been irrelevance.