alliance exp vs 6 man exp request / ideas

[Bulls]

Hello,
I have a few Ideas I hope the dev team will take into consideration concerning exp gain in FFXI. Personally I think the alliance experience point parties limit players to the full experience of the game. What it comes down to is people want to just go and exp without waiting a long time or being tied down to look for replacements when they want to leave. Alliance parties do that but at a grave cost of reducing the play style this game was created for. Six man parties allow players to experience and play their jobs to the fullest, Tanks can tank, while damage jobs do damage, and healers heal. The new alliance set up people have adapted too players just run around and one shot things which can be fun but not all the time. Players don't have to play there jobs like they are meant to be played which takes away an element of FFXI many players loved when it comes to leveling.

Suggestion: add an auto group finder that automatically groups players and warps them to a leveling area of choice for their level. Also since abyssea raised the standards for experience point gains, the experience points in the new six man parties would have to somewhat equal experience gain from the alliance parties in abyssea.

Edit: changed "taking away alliance parties". This thread is about auto finder "not" taking away alliance parties. Taking away alliance parties was a suggestion due to leechers.

Edit 2: My whole point in this post isn't to return to old school 6 man leveling. the Idea is to create a better and more fun leveling system where it involves tanks tanking damage dealers doing damage and healers healing. Also creating an Auto finder to get people together for 6 man parties without having the trouble to search for them manually. the "New" 6 man parties would have increased EXP gain so that you can spend time killing the monster with a tank and other members of the party and still receive (X amount) exp a kill to make up for the time killing the monster. I'm in no way stating that we need to return to the old level 75 merit party style... I hope this clears everything up for everyone.

[Karbuncle]

I would like to say i disagree with you here. I will explain my reasoning.


Hello,
What it comes down to is people want to just go and exp without waiting a long time or being tied down to look for replacements when they want to leave.

I must say, There is no good reason why one would look at this as a negative. I lived the age of "Exp at 4k an Hour, if you get bored, Find a rep", It wasn't bad, But I'm happy to know if i hear the words "I gotta go guys" its not going to be followed by "yah, Me too" "me too" "Okay disbanding in X", and i have to start all over.

Nothing wrong with Alliance exp style, You simply need to take off the Nostalgia goggles and realize two things.

1) Idiots existed as much then as they do today
2) Leveling in 6 man groups will not bring forth less idiots or stop the nearly nonexistent RMT.


Alliance parties do that but at a grave cost of reducing the play style this game was created for. Six man parties allow players to experience and play their jobs to the fullest, Tanks can tank, while damage jobs do damage, and healers heal. The new alliance set up people have adapted too players just run around and one shot things which can be fun but not all the time. Players don't have to play there jobs like they are meant to be played which takes away an element of FFXI many players loved when it comes to leveling.

Not entirely, No. Today, anyone with a brain stem will know the basic roles of a job when they level it, There's very few jobs that have some small trial and error, which can be weeded out by researching, or learning the job. But leveling in a 6 man group wont teach them to you if you don't want to learn.

And the problem with all those people who don't play their job well is... They don't want to learn. Forcing people back to a 6 man style will simply hurt legitimate players above all else. Especially those like me, Who have 12~+ 99 jobs, and know how to play them, and if i wanted to exp/merit another job, I don't like the idea of having to go "Well, Lets look for a Bard or COR, a Healer, and a Tank... Or i can't exp" like i did getting my f**king maats cap with the old exp system.

It was dumb, Limiting, and excruciating. Losing the BRD, COR, Tank, or Mage meant the party was done if you weren't lucky enough to find another, which almost never happened, especially with a BRD/COR. It is not something we should go back too.


I hope you will consider taking away EXP gains in alliance type parties which are meant for end game type events (which will also help stop RMT abyssea leveling)

Because thats what FFXI needs more of, Broad-scoping nerfs that effect players more than RMT, Like you know... Gardening, Fishing, Chocobo Digging, etc... I could go on, But i think you get my point,

Now that that is out of the way... The "RMT" will find a way around it, It will not slow them down enough to make an impact, and just hurt legitimate players much more.


and add an auto group finder that automatically groups players and warps them to a leveling area of choice for their level.

This would be convenient, actually... No need to nerf bat the entire current exp trend though.


Also since abyssea raised the standards for experience point gains, the experience points in the new six man parties would have to somewhat equal experience gain from the alliance parties in abyssea.

also at least a level-headed decision, Asking for alliance exp to be dissipated, but asking for it to balance out in the end. I at least acknowledge you are levelheaded enough to not just want a full nerf back to 10k/hr parties, But i still disagree with the idea Exp Alliances need to go.

Despite what many people think, Finding people to exp is still tough, The only reason it works today is because alliance are easy to gather for, You rarely need a true tank or Brd/COR. Healer and DD are really the only truly needed jobs, and even then, healers are pretty hard to get.

Going back to an Era where its "We need BRD, HEaler, and a Tank, Or exp isn't happening" - Or to a lesser extent "BRD and Healer (75+ Parties)" would just be bad design and bad decision making at this point.

[Bulls]

Karbuncle,

First off.. I'm not saying 6 man parties will stop RMT .... it will help with the exp monopolization where people sit and do nothing. A game is meant to be played not to go afk and come back 99.

Also no one cares how many jobs you have and how much experience you have had in this game this isn't a "oh I have all this so listen to me post" this post is a suggestion to SE nothing else.

I believe you misunderstood me as well when it comes to the Auto group finder. You don't need to "search and wait" for a job that has left the party due to whatever if you have an "automatic party finder" that finds people for you instantly... maybe they can implement something that finds people from all servers, who knows. I was never recommending going back to the old way of finding people for 6 mans and seeking forever. So before writing a novel on how you disagree with a suggestion I wrote to SE you should read it correctly first.

[Karbuncle]

Karbuncle,

First off.. I'm not saying 6 man parties will stop RMT .... it will help with the exp monopolization where people sit and do nothing. A game is meant to be played not to go afk and come back 99.

Leveling is a part of each RPG, But its not the only part. The people who leech are Key are leveling to 99 so they can participate in Endgame, where the actual fun is. They are playing the game, Just as a level 99 experiencing content, not leveling up in old tedium.

Also, Not to sound to rude, People leeching don't care about how you feel about it. What you're asking for is no better than depriving someone of a right of choice. Right now, Nothing in this game forces you to exp in Alliances, I know for a fact i could probably duo/trio with my friend faster than most exp alliances, I also know i can Exp the old way if i wanted.

But with your suggestion, You are removing an option players have. Right now, Choices are good. Keep the choices. You can have your ideals of how exp should be had, But they are simply that, ideals. Everyone does not share them, nor does anyone want them.


Also no one cares how many jobs you have and how much experience you have had in this game this isn't a "oh I have all this so listen to me post" this post is a suggestion to SE nothing else.

It's getting increasingly obvious you have no idea what you're doing or talking about. My point was to show I have plenty of experience leveling the Old school way, And i wasn't just some abyssea-burned player who never experienced it. It was to discern that i know what I am talking about having experienced leveling in all Eras. It was not meant to show off, However, If you can hide your ignorance for a moment it would definitely make for better debate.

Also, When you post a suggestion, On a public forum, In the open, You will get all opinions. Agree or Disagree, You cannot control it. It's best to simply learn to accept criticism, Especially if your idea is bad and needs to be fleshed out. The idea of an Auto-Party member finder is great, But the idea of forcing a 6-man group is not.

Also with the Auto-Finder, There's another obvious issue. Bard/Cor in the old day would refuse to exp unless certain jobs were in the party. No reason to auto-warp a Bard/Cor to the party that will instantly warp out. This feature would almost never be used by jobs you'd actually want, because they have the ability to pick and chose which party they want to join. That was the reality of old school exp, and to some extent, todays exp (Worms or Books, etc)


I believe you misunderstood me as well when it comes to the Auto group finder. You don't need to "search and wait" for a job that has left the party due to whatever if you have an "automatic party finder" that finds people for you instantly... maybe they can implement something that finds people from all servers, who knows. I was never recommending going back to the old way of finding people for 6 mans and seeking forever. So before writing a novel on how you disagree with a suggestion I wrote to SE you should read it correctly first.

Again, This insulting tone is getting old. Your idea still requires those jobs to actually be Looking for group, Which is what the core of the problem is. Your solution does not fix this, and still created the original reason people disbanded allianced, lack of available jobs. a Cross-Server LFG is absolutely Improbable in FFXI.

As an after thought, what you call "Writing a Novel" is what i call "Explaining in detail why i agree or disagree with the topic", Not everyone can have the talent of keeping a topic within 1 paragraph, half of which is filled with meaningless insults and no real progression in the discussion.

Conversation with simple "YAY" and "NAY" 1 liners get nowhere. Conversation, improvement, debate, and what have you can only exist if each party expressed their reasoning for liking or disliking, otherwise its meaningless to have forums.

[Bobetheking]

A group finder would be awesome, I would like to see 6 man parties again without the wait times and inconveniences of the past 6 man parties.

[FrankReynolds]

Karbuncle,

First off.. I'm not saying 6 man parties will stop RMT .... it will help with the exp monopolization where people sit and do nothing. A game is meant to be played not to go afk and come back 99.

Also no one cares how many jobs you have and how much experience you have had in this game this isn't a "oh I have all this so listen to me post" this post is a suggestion to SE nothing else.

I believe you misunderstood me as well when it comes to the Auto group finder. You don't need to "search and wait" for a job that has left the party due to whatever if you have an "automatic party finder" that finds people for you instantly... maybe they can implement something that finds people from all servers, who knows. I was never recommending going back to the old way of finding people for 6 mans and seeking forever. So before writing a novel on how you disagree with a suggestion I wrote to SE you should read it correctly first.

You can't auto find a bard if there is no bard.

Her detailing all the jobs she has leveled and / or mastered illustrates exactly the reason why 6 man parties don't need to exist. She's not going to learn anything new in these parties and thus is better off afk. Six man parties are a pain in the ass. The problem with finding people for six man groups was that there were no tanks / healers / bards searching for a group. It wasn't that they didn't know how to use the flag system.

To be honest, She didn't need to write a novel. She should have just said "NO!".

Your basically suggesting that they force everyone to get exp the way you want them to.


A group finder would be awesome, I would like to see 6 man parties again without the wait times and inconveniences of the past 6 man parties.

How would this work? Would it just force warp any corsair that isn't in a group to your location? Would it force the bard to join even though he said he won't merit with anything but samurai and war?

[Bulls]

You can't auto find a bard if there is no bard.

Her detailing all the jobs she has leveled and / or mastered illustrates exactly the reason why 6 man parties don't need to exist. She's not going to learn anything new in these parties and thus is better off afk. Six man parties are a pain in the ass. The problem with finding people for six man groups was that there were no tanks / healers / bards searching for a group. It wasn't that they didn't know how to use the flag system.

To be honest, She didn't need to write a novel. She should have just said "NO!".

Your basically suggesting that they force everyone to get exp the way you want them to.



How would this work? Would it just force warp any corsair that isn't in a group to your location? Would it force the bard to join even though he said he won't merit with anything but samurai and war?

you are missing my point as well, this isn't 2005-2008 there are plenty of people nowadays with tanks and healers and you don't need a cor or bard to level... I'm sure SE is smart enough to find a way to combine my idea with theirs and come up with a solution... you guys need to be more open minded...

[Bulls]

Karbuncle,

I'm not even going to bother reading your shit anymore all you're doing is making yourself look like a moron having 12 99s means nothing nowadays and it doesn't even mean you're not a noob. We agree to disagree, as you can tell there are people who enjoy 6 man and people who don't. my post was merely an Idea and suggestion. they can take it and combine it with something better I'm sure. you are entitled to your opinion, and you said what you think.

[Karbuncle]

you are missing my point as well, this isn't 2005-2008 there are plenty of people nowadays with tanks and healers and you don't need a cor or bard to level... I'm sure SE is smart enough to find a way to combine my idea with theirs and come up with a solution... you guys need to be more open minded...

They really aren't. I can /sea all 75-99 WHM (Or BRD, or COR) right now and probably only find a handful of players, if any, The bigger problem is, especially in Abyssea, 75~85 will kill considerably slower, even with Atma. So exping that would leave to party leaders looking for higher level players.

If you mean simply for new content, They say they are designing the new expansion as end-game centric, Its doubtful they will have many pre-90 Exp camps, and even then, Most 90+ players would not opt to exp outside of Abyssea unless given good incentive.

It would be harder to go back to 6 man parties than you think, Since level ranges would need to remain similar, Who's going to invite a level 75 player to a 6 man party, when a level 90 player will do much more damage? It would doom/Kill players under a certain level range, Since Abyssea will continue to remain the best exp spot. It would also divide the Level bases. Right now, Level 70~99 Are acceptable levels for some classes, BRD can get invited to an Exp alliance at level 65 or so, But if we resort back to 6 level parties, People will go back to finding the highest level player... then jobs like that 65 BRD will be forced to exp outside abyssea.

If people are forced to now level outside Abyssea, A lot of these players leveling new jobs will likely stop leveling new jobs, since the only reason they were doing it before was because it was so easy. Now you've cut off the supply of people leveling new jobs.

The repercussions of what you're asking are far broader than what you lead on, Is the point you are missing with our responses.


Karbuncle,

I'm not even going to bother reading your shit anymore all you're doing is making yourself look like a moron

Yes you will, You'll read every word. Respond? Probably not, You can't accept advice it seems or anything other than praise.

In reality, you're actually making yourself look like bad. Your tone, your language, you think people aren't going to see you for what you are? You don't even need to reply to me anymore, Its not going to save your thread, or your reputation after this point. You've already given yourself away as someone who cannot accept constructive criticism or the aspect of conversation.

The only thing you've done since posting is insult everyone who doesn't 100% agree with you. At the risk of sounding cliche, I think we all know who the real moron is here.

[Bulls]

The only person I've insulted is you, because of your tone and words towards my Idea. There are better ways to give constructive criticism than bashing someones idea into the ground because you don't agree with it. And I don't give two shits about a reputation. People can think of me whatever they want. That's none of my concern.

[Karbuncle]

The only person I've insulted is you, because of your tone and words towards my Idea. There are better ways to give constructive criticism than bashing someones idea into the ground because you don't agree with it. And I don't give two shits about a reputation. People can think of me whatever they want. That's none of my concern.

Lol. Nothing I have said has "bashed" your idea into the ground. I'm pointing out you're not thinking at all about anyone but yourself.

All you see if "I want to exp 6 man" - And from there, You don't care who suffers or any of the consequences of this drastic change in exp style. You're view is short-sighted, You haven't thought it out, and the only reasonable thing you've suggested is an Auto-finder for exp, But even that would have a lot of fleshing out and repercussions to consider.

You haven't thought it out enough, You haven't thought of how it would effect level 65~90 Players who might not be invited to 91~+ Exp parties, And how they would get exp after this update, since Exp is mainly around Abyssea, which level 65~75 Players would have a tough time doing reasonably. Especially needing someone to key the boxes, slowing down exp, and taking someone away from the job of DD, WHM, or what have you.

It would also make finding exp parties on "undesirable" jobs much more difficult, Like it was back in the old days. THF, MNK, DRK, SMN, BLM, RDM, PUP, DNC, SCH, PLD, NIN? You're SoL. If you go back to 6 man, Theres a lot less room for "Any DD will do" and so on

Only thing i'm doing is pointing out the idea has flaws. No idea is perfect, and you need to consider what consequences this might have for the player base.

[Bulls]

Karbuncle,

There is possibilities to keep both as well and still have a group finder. The only reason you are bashing my idea is because I said to take away alliance party experience. The main reason I even said that was because If an auto group finder exists, SE needs to give some kind of push for people to use it and play those jobs like whitemage / redmage / bard / cor or people will never even bother using it, they will continue to do what they are doing now. and yes you can do low man parties still but people don't want to do that when leveling in abyssea is 1000 times faster. if you're going to give people options for 6 man and alliance you have to make them equal. I know you say you kill faster in 6 man with friends but I'm sure you are 99 and not leveling a character from 75 and up.

[Karbuncle]

Karbuncle,

There is possibilities to keep both as well and still have a group finder. The only reason you are bashing my idea is because I said to take away alliance party experience. The main reason I even said that was because If an auto group finder exists, SE needs to give some kind of push for people to use it and play those jobs like whitemage / redmage / bard / cor or people will never even bother using it, they will continue to do what they are doing now. and yes you can do low man parties still but people don't want to do that when leveling in abyssea is 1000 times faster. if you're going to give people options for 6 man and alliance you have to make them equal. I know you say you kill faster in 6 man with friends but I'm sure you are 99 and not leveling a character from 75 and up.

Bolded: You never implied or said this, Want proof?


I hope you will consider taking away EXP gains in alliance type parties which are meant for end game type events

Thats from your OP. - You are directly asking for a nerf and removal of Alliance Exp. If you had said "Have both exist side by side" - I wouldn't have batted an eye at your post, because it would have been a reasonable request... which is "Encourage people to experience both 6 man or 18 man, make 6 man more appealing so its not completely dead", instead of what you came off saying "kill 18 man, force 6 man again".

You're changing your argument, Which is acceptable, But I'm pointing out from the way the OP is worded, You have or had no intention or want to keep 18 man Alliances possible, But instead to nerf them and make 6 man the best way again.

[Bulls]

Lol. Nothing I have said has "bashed" your idea into the ground. I'm pointing out you're not thinking at all about anyone but yourself.

All you see if "I want to exp 6 man" - And from there, You don't care who suffers or any of the consequences of this drastic change in exp style. You're view is short-sighted, You haven't thought it out, and the only reasonable thing you've suggested is an Auto-finder for exp, But even that would have a lot of fleshing out and repercussions to consider.

Then offer better ideas instead of writing a novel on how bad an idea it is, I'm a pretty open minded person. I'm sure there are things I haven't thought of and i'm just running with something. This post is mainly about a Auto finder anyways... everything else was just suggestions "hence the name of this whole forum section".

before you posted I was going to remake the thread anyhow to say autofinder.

[Karbuncle]

Then offer better ideas instead of writing a novel on how bad an idea it is, I'm a pretty open minded person. I'm sure there are things I haven't thought of and i'm just running with something. This post is mainly about a Auto finder anyways... everything else was just suggestions "hence the name of this whole forum section".

before you posted I was going to remake the thread anyhow to say autofinder.

I have no reason to offer ideas. The idea of reworking exp is in my idea wasted Development time. Its fine as it is. Why should i want to fix something that ain't broken?

Its pretty simple concept, I have no intent or reason to suggest ways to fix something I do not want or feel needs fixed. The only thing I'm going to do is point out that your idea, giving it consideration, Is ignoring a lot of repercussions that would result from this drastic change back to 6 man Exp.

If 6 man and Alliance exp existed side by side, The idea is fine, Making 6 Man parties more appealing would only gain to benefit people, and be a positive change to the game. Nerfing 18 man, Would be a negative, and therefor, not welcome.

P.S


This would be convenient, actually... No need to nerf bat the entire current exp trend though.

^ This Excerpt is from my original post, Which is in direct response to your "Exp finder" idea. If you actually bothered to read it, You'd have known from the beginning I agreed the Exp finder idea would be a good addition, But not removing the Current Exp trend (Alliances).

[Bulls]

Bolded: You never implied or said this, Want proof?



Thats from your OP. - You are directly asking for a nerf and removal of Alliance Exp. If you had said "Have both exist side by side" - I wouldn't have batted an eye at your post, because it would have been a reasonable request... which is "Encourage people to experience both 6 man or 18 man, make 6 man more appealing so its not completely dead", instead of what you came off saying "kill 18 man, force 6 man again".

You're changing your argument, Which is acceptable, But I'm pointing out from the way the OP is worded, You have or had no intention or want to keep 18 man Alliances possible, But instead to nerf them and make 6 man the best way again.

I know I never stated that you don't have to prove it. the reason I mentioned to take away alliance parties is because of people who leech and to give 6 man parties a jump start again. do you really think people will do 6 man parties when they can go afk in altep? if SE really wants people to play like that it's their game and it's their rules. personally I think its stupid but I'm also not a DEV member and they have the control to change or keep whatever they want. so arguing with me about what I said makes no difference really.

[Karbuncle]

I know I never stated that you don't have to prove it. the reason I mentioned to take away alliance parties is because of people who leech and to give 6 man parties a jump start again. do you really think people will do 6 man parties when they can go afk in altep? if SE really wants people to play like that it's their game and it's their rules. personally I think its stupid but I'm also not a DEV member and they have the control to change or keep whatever they want. so arguing with me about what I said makes no difference really.

I don't agree with Leeching, But i support the choices they give us to do so.

Not everyone thinks Exp is "Content". at best, Most players think, and rightfully so, Exp is just the grind to content. Content is Endgame. I don't leech, Nor do i support it, But i support SE letting their players have the choices to do so.

That's what I'm arguing.

[Bulls]

I don't agree with Leeching, But i support the choices they give us to do so.

Not everyone thinks Exp is "Content". at best, Most players think, and rightfully so, Exp is just the grind to content. Content is Endgame. I don't leech, Nor do i support it, But i support SE letting their players have the choices to do so.

That's what I'm arguing.

I agree to an extent I like SE giving people choices but choices like leeching can be game breaking sometimes. half of the fun of an MMO in my opinion is leveling ( if they make it fun and not a big grind like the old 6 man parties). What I'm looking for is a better and funner way to level than abyssea alliance , where you get to see more area's , different monstersn etc instead of the same thing for hours and hours on end.

Edit: Also I would like a leveling system where tanks can actually tank again.

[Bobetheking]

How would this work? Would it just force warp any corsair that isn't in a group to your location? Would it force the bard to join even though he said he won't merit with anything but samurai and war?

Lol you don't need a bard or Cor to get an exp party to level. I would imagine more people would play support and tank jobs if there was an option other than abyssea experience. There a tons of people who have tanks and support jobs. you just see them on DD jobs more often because of how the system works nowadays. I don't see anything about force warping people in here though. I would imagine that the auto finder bulls is talking about selects people that have qued up as the role they want to play and then when the party is full it warps them to a location they want to level. that's my guess. similar to the newer MMOs out now if you've played any.

[FrankReynolds]

I agree to an extent I like SE giving people choices but choices like leeching can be game breaking sometimes. half of the fun of an MMO in my opinion is leveling ( if they make it fun and not a big grind like the old 6 man parties). What I'm looking for is a better and funner way to level than abyssea alliance , where you get to see more area's , different monstersn etc instead of the same thing for hours and hours on end.

Edit: Also I would like a leveling system where tanks can actually tank again.

I think the Karbuncle hit the nail on the head. It ain't broke.

I would love it if people could join groups regardless of what zone they're in and be able to warp to the party, but this would have huge implications for fighting NMs and completing quests etc.. Maybe they could put a cool down on it? or a level cap? or restrict it to certain zones or parts of them?

I could see them making it so that you can gain similar exp in a 6 man group, but beyond that I don't see much they could do without nerfing what is already in place. The bottom line is that experience parties just don't actually give you much real experience (learning to play the job).

You can learn almost everything you need to learn about a job nowadays by reading your favorite wiki while you afk, or asking around etc. People regularly post ideal gear sets for every action in the game nowadays. Exp. is really just a mandatory wait period before getting to the real content. To be honest, wikis and fan sites killed the need for exp parties. You don't need to learn a job by playing it anymore really. You can just read up on it, set your macros and call it a day.


Lol you don't need a bard or Cor to get an exp party to level. I would imagine more people would play support and tank jobs if there was an option other than abyssea experience. There a tons of people who have tanks and support jobs. you just see them on DD jobs more often because of how the system works nowadays. I don't see anything about force warping people in here though. I would imagine that the auto finder bulls is talking about selects people that have qued up as the role they want to play and then when the party is full it warps them to a location they want to level. that's my guess. similar to the newer MMOs out now if you've played any.

Did you forget what it was like before abbysea?

<party leader> /tell hey, you want to exp?
<war> what's the set up?
<party leader> whm, bst, pup, thf, sam
<war> no bard? wtf is there a thf for? a pup?.... no thanks.

[Karbuncle]

Lol you don't need a bard or Cor to get an exp party to level. I would imagine more people would play support and tank jobs if there was an option other than abyssea experience. There a tons of people who have tanks and support jobs. you just see them on DD jobs more often because of how the system works nowadays. I don't see anything about force warping people in here though. I would imagine that the auto finder bulls is talking about selects people that have qued up as the role they want to play and then when the party is full it warps them to a location they want to level. that's my guess. similar to the newer MMOs out now if you've played any.

You're mistaken unfortunately my friend. As if you recall, At level 75+, Tank jobs became completely useless in exp parties, Even 6 mans, So while it might help at lower levels, Once you hit 75, You would hit a stone-wall.

If it wasn't for alliance Exp, Most tank jobs, and the ones i named above, Would probably have a very very hard time leveling up. Back when 6 man was king, If you didn't have "Desirable" jobs, You rarely ever found a party. Its sad really. Alliance exp actually helped those jobs get a spot, Since it was less restrictive :)

[FrankReynolds]

You're mistaken unfortunately my friend. As if you recall, At level 75+, Tank jobs became completely useless in exp parties, Even 6 mans, So while it might help at lower levels, Once you hit 75, You would hit a stone-wall.

If it wasn't for alliance Exp, Most tank jobs, and the ones i named above, Would probably have a very very hard time leveling up. Back when 6 man was king, If you didn't have "Desirable" jobs, You rarely ever found a party. Its sad really. Alliance exp actually helped those jobs get a spot, Since it was less restrictive :)

I don't recall using tanks after 60 ish really. Generally people would just sub nin and bounce hate until 75, then everyone goes balls out and the red spams cures.

[Zerich]

Is it just my imagination or is the recent flux of people reactivating a giant group of bawwing nooblets? I've been seeing a lot of people in the game who are shunning alliance exp, cleaves, and abyssea in-general. It's almost like they want to stay forever-gimped. Ironically, these have all been people who never did endgame or understand it.

[Luvbunny]

To the OP, if you like the idea of 6 persons party, please do go make it your self and find others who also yearn for similar thing. You NEED to realize that 6 persons party options is ENTIRELY viable and never EVER goes away. It has been beef up to oblivion with bonus xp via GoV and exp ring as well so 600-1000k exp per kill is not unreasonable. BUT PLEASE, please leave the rest of us alone who rather do alliance xp style. There is a big reasons why people go for alliance style, and every other posters here already explained it to you. So go for nostalgia if you want, find others with similar needs, but leave this "rose colored glasses" idea, most of us do not want to go back nor do we care to have it back.

[Bulls]

You're mistaken unfortunately my friend. As if you recall, At level 75+, Tank jobs became completely useless in exp parties, Even 6 mans, So while it might help at lower levels, Once you hit 75, You would hit a stone-wall.

If it wasn't for alliance Exp, Most tank jobs, and the ones i named above, Would probably have a very very hard time leveling up. Back when 6 man was king, If you didn't have "Desirable" jobs, You rarely ever found a party. Its sad really. Alliance exp actually helped those jobs get a spot, Since it was less restrictive :)

I think bobe means that if the exp per kill is raised for 6 man experience point parties to where you can enjoy the fight and get Idk lets say 2-3k a kill you wouldn't need a set up like the old school 75 merit parties.

[Bulls]

Is it just my imagination or is the recent flux of people reactivating a giant group of bawwing nooblets? I've been seeing a lot of people in the game who are shunning alliance exp, cleaves, and abyssea in-general. It's almost like they want to stay forever-gimped. Ironically, these have all been people who never did endgame or understand it.

you shouldn't be so quick to judge someone based on what they enjoy and want, some people do enjoy things you don't just like people enjoy things I don't.

with that being said everyone wants to get something for free without doing the work needed. that is why people like the "going afk while leveling".

I know tons of people who did end game at 75 and don't like the alliance parties. It's just based on opinion and play style...

[Bulls]

To the OP, if you like the idea of 6 persons party, please do go make it your self and find others who also yearn for similar thing. You NEED to realize that 6 persons party options is ENTIRELY viable and never EVER goes away. It has been beef up to oblivion with bonus xp via GoV and exp ring as well so 600-1000k exp per kill is not unreasonable. BUT PLEASE, please leave the rest of us alone who rather do alliance xp style. There is a big reasons why people go for alliance style, and every other posters here already explained it to you. So go for nostalgia if you want, find others with similar needs, but leave this "rose colored glasses" idea, most of us do not want to go back nor do we care to have it back.

yes 6 man parties are there but how can we do 6 man parties when the majority does alliance due to better exp gain?

and my Idea doesn't consist of going back to the old fashion 6 man party. I will change the OP so you people understand.

[Zerich]

you shouldn't be so quick to judge someone based on what they enjoy and want, some people do enjoy things you don't just like people enjoy things I don't.

Holy triple-posts, Bulls-man!

Also, who uses /inv anymore?
They already have auto /inv as well as a super secret relic from the past "/sea all inv".

And there were no tanks in the good merit parties; there were only DD's and support. Why take 3-4 minutes killing 1 mob for 3-4k when i can just solo or alliance pages for 5-6k every 2.5 minutes?

Your OP and OP-edit are only pointing out your lack of understanding for efficient game set-ups. Too bad the majority of players who are leveling up (especially in over-world instances) are getting face-raped by Tough mobs in an alliance setting.

Did you honestly enjoy having to beg a RDM, BRD, or NIN to come over to a camp for an hour and fight giant enemy crabs?

[Bulls]

Holy triple-posts, Bulls-man!

Also, who uses /inv anymore?
They already have auto /inv as well as a super secret relic from the past "/sea all inv".

And there were no tanks in the good merit parties; there were only DD's and support. Why take 3-4 minutes killing 1 mob for 3-4k when i can just solo or alliance pages for 5-6k every 2.5 minutes?

Your OP and OP-edit are only pointing out your lack of understanding for efficient game set-ups. Too bad the majority of players who are leveling up (especially in over-world instances) are getting face-raped by Tough mobs in an alliance setting.

Did you honestly enjoy having to beg a RDM, BRD, or NIN to come over to a camp for an hour and fight giant enemy crabs?

I'm giving you an estimate not an exact number... my point is they can make the exp whatever they want to even it with whatever people do now... the whole point of the auto finder is you don't need to beg anyone, that's why it's called an auto-finder... and with that new exp gain any job can do it pld / nin / rdm / whm / sch whatever. Plus with the new expansion coming out that new rune job will be another tank added to the pile.

And it's not my lack of understanding, it's more your incompetence to grasp what i'm trying to explain.

[Behemothx]

yes 6 man parties are there but how can we do 6 man parties when the majority does alliance due to better exp gain?

and my Idea doesn't consist of going back to the old fashion 6 man party. I will change the OP so you people understand.

You answered your own question. If the majority wants alliance exp, why change anything?

[Bulls]

You answered your own question. If the majority wants alliance exp, why change anything?

How is that answering my own question? the only thing it tells me is that Alliance parties give a lot more exp than 6 man so people go to the faster source.

[Zerich]

And it's not my lack of understanding, it's more your incompetence to grasp what i'm trying to explain.

it's your inability to /sea all inv

[Karbuncle]

People will not always go the fastest route, Some will always do the most fun route.

Unfortunately, EXP is not fun for most, If 6 man Exp parties were wanted more than alliance, There would be a strong base of players still doing old school parties because they enjoy it more.

in fact, there may be a group of these people you could find. But the majority like the relaxed, easier, less intensive Exp parties of today. I liked exping in the old days, But i embrace this new system as well. You learn to adapt, and you can see Alliance exp has its charm too.

[Bulls]

People will not always go the fastest route, Some will always do the most fun route.

Unfortunately, EXP is not fun for most, If 6 man Exp parties were wanted more than alliance, There would be a strong base of players still doing old school parties because they enjoy it more.

in fact, there may be a group of these people you could find. But the majority like the relaxed, easier, less intensive Exp parties of today. I liked exping in the old days, But i embrace this new system as well. You learn to adapt, and you can see Alliance exp has its charm too.

you're right, but I think people would be more accepting towards 6 man (non-abyssea) parties if they made it less of a hassle to get ppl for it and a bigger reward that rivals abyssea per hour kills.

Edit: Right now outside abyssea it's still a bit of a grind compared to abyssea alliances.

[Septimus]

The true limiting factor to 6-man parties is that there are only two good support jobs (BRD and COR) out of the twenty jobs in the game. Going without one or the other is going to massively limit your XP gain. In fact, part of the the reason why old-school 6-man merit parties raked in so much XP was because they would take two Bards or a Bard and a Corsair for more buffs to kill things even faster.

You don't need BRDs or CORs in Abyssea alliances because you have Atmas for awesome-time buff fun. You don't need BRDs or CORs in GoV book burns because you are killing EP mobs and have level correction on your side with the bulk of the XP coming from book completions. The simple truth of the matter is that most people do not like to play support jobs; according to the latest census, Bard is ranked 15th and Corsair is ranked 19th. Unless there is a way to force people to level a job that they don't want to level, 6-man parties are not going to be viable.

[Luvbunny]

How is that answering my own question? the only thing it tells me is that Alliance parties give a lot more exp than 6 man so people go to the faster source.

Yes that is exactly the points here. If you want to have a nostalgia 6 person's party, by all means shout and find others who also wants the same thing, chances are you may be able to find statics. I am sure there are a few who also wants the same thing and long for the nostalgia factor. Fortunately it is one of the many options of gaining xp, which is GREAT, now you are not forced to xp ONE WAY. Sure people will choose the better faster xp per hour, such is life. We do not want old school way of party, it is retarded, and such a boring grind. Abyssea is there for you to learn how to play your jobs, hence fighting NMs for seals, plus 2, empyrean weapons, etc... That's where you have to learn how your play your job, the hard knock style, either LEARN FAST or wipe, spend time to skill ups and READ wiki and practice or look like an idiot when you are doing an event/farm etc... That is why abysea is battle content, it is there for you to get to 99, learn your jobs fast and start doing the actual end gaming which is gear collection via abyssea, walk of echoes, dynamis, neo nyzul, salvage, magian trials, legions, void watch, etc. Get with the program dude, game has changed since 2010, for the better.

[Bulls]

Yes that is exactly the points here. If you want to have a nostalgia 6 person's party, by all means shout and find others who also wants the same thing, chances are you may be able to find statics. I am sure there are a few who also wants the same thing and long for the nostalgia factor. Fortunately it is one of the many options of gaining xp, which is GREAT, now you are not forced to xp ONE WAY. Sure people will choose the better faster xp per hour, such is life. We do not want old school way of party, it is retarded, and such a boring grind. Abyssea is there for you to learn how to play your jobs, hence fighting NMs for seals, plus 2, empyrean weapons, etc... That's where you have to learn how your play your job, the hard knock style, either LEARN FAST or wipe, spend time to skill ups and READ wiki and practice or look like an idiot when you are doing an event/farm etc... That is why abysea is battle content, it is there for you to get to 99, learn your jobs fast and start doing the actual end gaming which is gear collection via abyssea, walk of echoes, dynamis, neo nyzul, salvage, magian trials, legions, void watch, etc. Get with the program dude, game has changed since 2010, for the better.

lol you haven't even read one word of my post. gtfo

[Zerich]

lol you haven't even read one word of my post. gtfo

people have, you ding bat. you're just far too thick and proud to see anything else beyond your own written word.

[Anapingofness]

Hello,
I have a few Ideas I hope the dev team will take into consideration concerning exp gain in FFXI. Personally I think the alliance experience point parties limit players to the full experience of the game. What it comes down to is people want to just go and exp without waiting a long time or being tied down to look for replacements when they want to leave. Alliance parties do that but at a grave cost of reducing the play style this game was created for. Six man parties allow players to experience and play their jobs to the fullest, Tanks can tank, while damage jobs do damage, and healers heal. The new alliance set up people have adapted too players just run around and one shot things which can be fun but not all the time. Players don't have to play there jobs like they are meant to be played which takes away an element of FFXI many players loved when it comes to leveling.

Suggestion: add an auto group finder that automatically groups players and warps them to a leveling area of choice for their level. Also since abyssea raised the standards for experience point gains, the experience points in the new six man parties would have to somewhat equal experience gain from the alliance parties in abyssea.

Edit: changed "taking away alliance parties". This thread is about auto finder "not" taking away alliance parties. Taking away alliance parties was a suggestion due to leechers.

Edit 2: My whole point in this post isn't to return to old school 6 man leveling. the Idea is to create a better and more fun leveling system where it involves tanks tanking damage dealers doing damage and healers healing. Also creating an Auto finder to get people together for 6 man parties without having the trouble to search for them manually. the "New" 6 man parties would have increased EXP gain so that you can spend time killing the monster with a tank and other members of the party and still receive (X amount) exp a kill to make up for the time killing the monster. I'm in no way stating that we need to return to the old level 75 merit party style... I hope this clears everything up for everyone.

Tbh, I kind of like this idea.

I'm all for an auto group finder/content finder/etc, in my opinion the game needs one- it's needed one for ten years now.

However, the thing is... it's a bit late in the game to just simply put one in- especially in regards to exp groups.

That being said, if they can make it relevant to the game right now then they should add it.

If they can add group finder for VW or trials, or things like that it would make it easier for people to do them. Especially for people who are more on the casual end of the scale. What's more is if SE was actually interested in getting new players to FFXI it would also help new players find exp parties and the like.

More importantly, they need to make 6 man parties worth doing again. The reason everyone does exp alliances is because they're the easiest and fastest way to get levels, not because people are unable to do 6 man parties.

[Bulls]

people have, you ding bat. you're just far too thick and proud to see anything else beyond your own written word.

not the person I said that too you fooking moron, stop trying to defend everyone that's against me to support your own cause.

[Bulls]

Tbh, I kind of like this idea.

I'm all for an auto group finder/content finder/etc, in my opinion the game needs one- it's needed one for ten years now.

However, the thing is... it's a bit late in the game to just simply put one in- especially in regards to exp groups.

That being said, if they can make it relevant to the game right now then they should add it.

If they can add group finder for VW or trials, or things like that it would make it easier for people to do them. Especially for people who are more on the casual end of the scale. What's more is if SE was actually interested in getting new players to FFXI it would also help new players find exp parties and the like.

More importantly, they need to make 6 man parties worth doing again. The reason everyone does exp alliances is because they're the easiest and fastest way to get levels, not because people are unable to do 6 man parties.

Finally someone that understands what I'm talking about, This is exactly what I've been trying to get across this whole time. kudos to you! :)

[Karbuncle]

I've understood what you were talking about just fine. The part they're responding too is your edit that appeared far after my initial posts ⌐ ⌐

Only problem i see is, thats what /seacoms are for, that "Groupping based on VW/etc" is already in the game, Its just nobody uses it :|, its sad but true.

Otherwise, Strictly the idea of Auto-Grouping or Easier finding i like, But they'll ask us to use /seacoms, that's what they're there for.

[Bulls]

I've understood what you were talking about just fine. The part they're responding too is your edit that appeared far after my initial posts ⌐ ⌐

Only problem i see is, thats what /seacoms are for, that "Groupping based on VW/etc" is already in the game, Its just nobody uses it :|, its sad but true.

Otherwise, Strictly the idea of Auto-Grouping or Easier finding i like, But they'll ask us to use /seacoms, that's what they're there for.

I was talking about the other people who commented that made absolutely no sense to what I was talking about. people that are just saying don't take away alliances you're a noob blah blah blah , you and I already had our agreements and disagreements with that long conversation we had.

That is true but if people don't ever use it, maybe that's a sign of it needing an upgrade.

[Luvbunny]

lol you haven't even read one word of my post. gtfo

Your post is blatantly clear it is an OLD SCHOOL style party, slightly revamped, where you get more xp per hours. The reason this will not work too well is the hate system currently in place. When your melee dd will out damage your tank and steal hate sooner or later. Wether you want it or not you will need an old school set up, with support job. Within a few weeks it will become "revamped old school" merit party set up again, 4 DD + bard/corsair + red mage or white mage or scholar. The old school set up is somewhat dying when ToAU was introduced so this is not new anymore. Express to 75 was a 2006 trend when people finally able to get out of Kuftal Tunnel - Boyahda Tree camp and move on to Collibri. And let's not forget the OVERCAMPED problem of yesteryear - which alliance party eliminated. Can you imagine if everyone doing old school on GoV - which you can absolutely do - there won't be any mob left for 2 parties.

Basically you are suggesting to get more xp for slightly longer kill of the mob, which this idea somewhat exist in GoV for lvl 90s mobs, but not with more xp. Hardly anyone does it. You are asking for things that pretty much exist in the game now. People do not do it because they do not see xp grind as fun. If you want to have the party dynamics again, go kill hard NMs in those new BCNMs etc... Exp grind is gone for a reason, they want you to have fun at endgame now, not taking the loooooong route to 99.

I understand you want the "old school" feel of tank, dd, healer, support job dynamic, by all means go make one. But this set up now only useful for NMs hunting, not for xp party, at least not at this age of alliance party. The style nowadays is low man party set up, or big alliance style for void watch and legion. But you should feel free to make the old school set up and have your own fun. As I said numerous times, the game gives us many choices and options now, it's all there for you to experience it, just find others with similar taste and needs.

[Bulls]

Your post is blatantly clear it is an OLD SCHOOL style party, slightly revamped, where you get more xp per hours. The reason this will not work too well is the hate system currently in place. When your melee dd will out damage your tank and steal hate sooner or later. Wether you want it or not you will need an old school set up, with support job. Within a few weeks it will become "revamped old school" merit party set up again, 4 DD + bard/corsair + red mage or white mage or scholar. The old school set up is somewhat dying when ToAU was introduced so this is not new anymore. Express to 75 was a 2006 trend when people finally able to get out of Kuftal Tunnel - Boyahda Tree camp and move on to Collibri. And let's not forget the OVERCAMPED problem of yesteryear - which alliance party eliminated. Can you imagine if everyone doing old school on GoV - which you can absolutely do - there won't be any mob left for 2 parties.

Basically you are suggesting to get more xp for slightly longer kill of the mob, which this idea somewhat exist in GoV for lvl 90s mobs, but not with more xp. Hardly anyone does it. You are asking for things that pretty much exist in the game now. People do not do it because they do not see xp grind as fun. If you want to have the party dynamics again, go kill hard NMs in those new BCNMs etc... Exp grind is gone for a reason, they want you to have fun at endgame now, not taking the loooooong route to 99.

I understand you want the "old school" feel of tank, dd, healer, support job dynamic, by all means go make one. But this set up now only useful for NMs hunting, not for xp party, at least not at this age of alliance party. The style nowadays is low man party set up, or big alliance style for void watch and legion. But you should feel free to make the old school set up and have your own fun. As I said numerous times, the game gives us many choices and options now, it's all there for you to experience it, just find others with similar taste and needs.



All you are doing is comparing old school 75 parties with my idea so apparently it's not "blatantly clear" enough for you . of course it's going to be similar because 6 man parties is what the game was made for.. its the basics of all parties. what you aren't thinking of is SE has the capability to change whatever they want. they can make leveling mobs spawn faster, areas bigger, more camping spots if they really desired to.

The only reason people migrated to merit set up 4 DDs a bard and a healer is because it was "faster exp" nothing compared to the exp of a merit party. and that has always been the mentality of the FFXI community. that is why people do alliance parties. not because they are fun but because it gives the most EXP. why do you think people afk all the time in alliance parties. if alliance leveling was so much fun no one would be going afk for long periods of time.

Just like Karbuncle said most people don't see leveling as fun, why? because no matter how much you sugar coat it or change it around it will ALWAYS be a grind, that's just how MMOs are made you quest for exp or grind in killing stuff. EXP grind is not gone the only thing gone is the low exp gain. Even today's form of alliance parties are still a grind. you grind mobs to produce a bunch of exp.


And yes that is my Idea is to bring back the "original" 6 man party feel that needs a tank to fight monsters that can't be beaten with an all DD set up with higher exp that rivals the exp an hour from a 18 man abyssea alliance so we can actually play the job for a while before the monster dies, running around randomly while people 1 shot things gets old pretty fast. the only thing similar about that from "old school" is the fighting style. giving people a lot more exp per kill takes away the "looong way" as you say to 99. The old style consisted of many hours of killing because you would only get 200 exp every 3-4 minutes.... changing that changes everything.

I know 6 man has always been there but there is no point in doing it unless SE revamps it and gives a reason to do it. it will be just a big time sink that no one will participate in when you can get 1000 times more exp in an alliance party. GOV was a good attempt at trying to add more exp but it doesn't ever compare to abyssea. and that is why no one does it , unless you do an alliance on leeches under san d oria.


killing NMs , VW, and other end game activities are fun but you can't compare leveling with end game material, both are part of the game and both are different forms of entertainment. you say we have so many options but if you think about it we really don't. if we did 6 man parties would still be alive and getting just as much exp outside of abyssea as alliance type set ups inside abyss.

you might not agree with this type of style which is fine but I hope that cleared it up for you. if not then I don't know what else to say.

Edit: oh and about the hate system, SE can tweak that as well if they wanted by maybe giving small buffs outside abyssea that gives a certain amout of enmity reduction or increase depending on the job? who knows but anything is possible.

tanks would need a lot more enmity to hold hate from something like an empyrean / relic weapon but that's how it's always been before abyssea came out, tanks would stack enmity to hold hate. shouldn't really be much of a problem outside abyssea without all those godly buffs to be honest.

[Luvbunny]

I really see no point of this, what you are suggesting somewhat exist in the game already, with one minor difference, the xp reward is not as good as abyssea or alliance style party GoV. That's about it. And yeah leveling is a GRIND that is made obsolete with the alliance style - and REPLACED by the new grind which is gears collecting via many of the so called endgame events (with its various styles and options). So in before you grind via normal xp party, now you are grinding end game contents with your various jobs, similar to most modern games. It's a major shift after abyssea introduced in 2010 - and for the better.

If your reasoning is to get rid of leechers or making people learn how to play their jobs, here is newsflash for you, if said person cannot, will not, do not want to learn the intricacy of said jobs, they will not going to spend time to do it. End of story, no matter how they are getting their said level. And your ideas are kinda outdated anyway, if 6 persons party become popular, we will have to deal with overcrowded camps, level synch, needing to find jobs xyz (there are only so many tanks and support jobs available) - SE has to revamped the entire game system outside abyssea which they are not willing to do - if the last two years telling you anything. After 10 years, everyone wants to have fun at the end game, not climbing the ladder to 99 - let's face it, the fun is AT THE END GAME content.

And yes we do have options, so you can choose what and how you want to level, the fact that the majority of people do not want to do the 6 persons party should give you a clear warning why such idea will never take hold. Unless SE is giving you 2k per kill which at the end negate the whole points since you will level so fast, you are not exactly "learning" how to play other than the 6 persons party style. This also pose a problem because their skill level will not be able to scale up with how fast they are leveling up, and for some jobs, example: blue mage, it is not viable at all since the gap would get higher and higher and render the jobs useless, not to mention you will have to move camp every 30 mnts or so since the mob will no longer give the desired xp. SE would have to create a bunch of new mobs that spawn super fast, does not link or aggro, and auto scale up to your highest level of your party leader - which at this point of the game, they would probably said no thanks.

Seal farming is pretty much your old school party style, you need a tank, a nuker, and a healer at the very minimal, or a tank who can cure (dancer, ninja/dancer) and a nuker who can cure (blm/whm) and for harder NMs you need your typical 6 persons set up. What is consider a tank also changed greatly now, with DDs able to take over the role, and evasion tanks are preferred over blood tank for majority of the contents. You do realize that you CAN make a 6 person style abysea party, it is called CLEAVE party (blm, blue, war, thief or dancer, with white mage and bard). This set up will give you just as much xp as the alliance style and everyone in the party actually HAVE TO WORK their ass off.

[Luvbunny]

The auto finder is a nice feature if they can make it similar to what Blizzard did for World of Warcraft. But in order to do that they will have to create instanced area with 30 mnts limit where you get to kill everything in sight and get exp at the end. They did this with Moblin Maze and back in the days was a viable alternative to merit party - but now SE does not bother to rework it. There are several new BCNMs that use it as inspiration where you kill tons of mobs and you need healer. The point is that all these variety of activities are not "how to level up" kind of thing, but more of end game type of contents. Perhaps they will come up with something new next year with the expansion but if you notice, their focus now is to give us variety of new endgame contents with multiple "new" gears to collect. Abyssea and GoV is pretty much their answer to how you should level up your jobs.

[Bulls]

I really see no point of this, what you are suggesting somewhat exist in the game already, with one minor difference, the xp reward is not as good as abyssea or alliance style party GoV. That's about it. And yeah leveling is a GRIND that is made obsolete with the alliance style - and REPLACED by the new grind which is gears collecting via many of the so called endgame events (with its various styles and options). So in before you grind via normal xp party, now you are grinding end game contents with your various jobs, similar to most modern games. It's a major shift after abyssea introduced in 2010 - and for the better.

If your reasoning is to get rid of leechers or making people learn how to play their jobs, here is newsflash for you, if said person cannot, will not, do not want to learn the intricacy of said jobs, they will not going to spend time to do it. End of story, no matter how they are getting their said level. And your ideas are kinda outdated anyway, if 6 persons party become popular, we will have to deal with overcrowded camps, level synch, needing to find jobs xyz (there are only so many tanks and support jobs available) - SE has to revamped the entire game system outside abyssea which they are not willing to do - if the last two years telling you anything. After 10 years, everyone wants to have fun at the end game, not climbing the ladder to 99 - let's face it, the fun is AT THE END GAME content.

And yes we do have options, so you can choose what and how you want to level, the fact that the majority of people do not want to do the 6 persons party should give you a clear warning why such idea will never take hold. Unless SE is giving you 2k per kill which at the end negate the whole points since you will level so fast, you are not exactly "learning" how to play other than the 6 persons party style. This also pose a problem because their skill level will not be able to scale up with how fast they are leveling up, and for some jobs, example: blue mage, it is not viable at all since the gap would get higher and higher and render the jobs useless, not to mention you will have to move camp every 30 mnts or so since the mob will no longer give the desired xp. SE would have to create a bunch of new mobs that spawn super fast, does not link or aggro, and auto scale up to your highest level of your party leader - which at this point of the game, they would probably said no thanks.

Seal farming is pretty much your old school party style, you need a tank, a nuker, and a healer at the very minimal, or a tank who can cure (dancer, ninja/dancer) and a nuker who can cure (blm/whm) and for harder NMs you need your typical 6 persons set up. What is consider a tank also changed greatly now, with DDs able to take over the role, and evasion tanks are preferred over blood tank for majority of the contents. You do realize that you CAN make a 6 person style abysea party, it is called CLEAVE party (blm, blue, war, thief or dancer, with white mage and bard). This set up will give you just as much xp as the alliance style and everyone in the party actually HAVE TO WORK their ass off.

The only thing I didn't think of is the skilling up part , they would have to make skilling up faster.

But other than that the only thing I can say to all that is we agree to disagree I see things differently than you do and vise versa.

[Bulls]

The auto finder is a nice feature if they can make it similar to what Blizzard did for World of Warcraft. But in order to do that they will have to create instanced area with 30 mnts limit where you get to kill everything in sight and get exp at the end. They did this with Moblin Maze and back in the days was a viable alternative to merit party - but now SE does not bother to rework it. There are several new BCNMs that use it as inspiration where you kill tons of mobs and you need healer. The point is that all these variety of activities are not "how to level up" kind of thing, but more of end game type of contents. Perhaps they will come up with something new next year with the expansion but if you notice, their focus now is to give us variety of new endgame contents with multiple "new" gears to collect. Abyssea and GoV is pretty much their answer to how you should level up your jobs.

Not really, games don't need to be like wow you can have an autofinder without an instance. they can indeed make an auto finder to gather peoples specific jobs and have it warp them to the entrance of some zone of choice where they can run to camp. The only thing they wouldn't be able to do without instance type zones is all world auto finder gathering ppl from all servers.

[Luvbunny]

The only thing I didn't think of is the skilling up part , they would have to make skilling up faster.

But other than that the only thing I can say to all that is we agree to disagree I see things differently than you do and vise versa.

Its good to have ideas, though for yours to work they have to do massive revamping, and SE will not do this. Skillup is like a free time sink for them, and they will not let us do faster skill ups, ever!! Otherwise everyone will do the new way of partying, alliance style lol, doing GoV for massive skill ups - which sadly they actually CAN but yet this has not been pick up by the majority of people and most tend doing it solo the slow way.

The current way of leveling is the best solution from SE part, it get rid of massive annoying problems of changing camps, level synch, finding xyz jobs etc... It democratize leveling and put everyone in similar playing field. And yeah, people took advantage of this, which is predictable, its human nature.

[Vik_Justice]

I'm not really for or against any of this. I will however point out that in my coming back I've seen an obvious drop in the skill of the player base. One of my favorite things about XI was it's not over powering an enemy that's most important. It's a good party build consisting of people who understand their jobs and have a plan of attack when it comes to more difficult mobs, be it HNMs or Gods or whatever. I personally believe that this was definitely more enforced when you leveled up to a point in smaller 6 man groups and alliances were an endgame thing. But now if people can't figure out something they just complain to SE about it and it gets nerfed so it's easier to just beat it with a stick until it's dead. I miss XI being the "hard" MMO.
That doesn't mean that we need to get rid of leveling in alliances, or go back to purely being a 6man party all the way to 75+ sort of game. I like small parties, but that's me. I'm not going to request that be forced on others. That's kind of fascist. But I do think there should be something implemented that encourages players to better know their roles and the full capability of their jobs. What that thing is, I have no clue. It's not my job to know. Just my opinion. Regardless I'm going to play and I'm going to enjoy it one way or the other. I certainly encourage others to do the same. If you don't like one way people play, play it another way. Who knows, maybe one day things will change and everyone (mostly everyone) will be happy.

[Bulls]

I'm not really for or against any of this. I will however point out that in my coming back I've seen an obvious drop in the skill of the player base. One of my favorite things about XI was it's not over powering an enemy that's most important. It's a good party build consisting of people who understand their jobs and have a plan of attack when it comes to more difficult mobs, be it HNMs or Gods or whatever. I personally believe that this was definitely more enforced when you leveled up to a point in smaller 6 man groups and alliances were an endgame thing. But now if people can't figure out something they just complain to SE about it and it gets nerfed so it's easier to just beat it with a stick until it's dead. I miss XI being the "hard" MMO.
That doesn't mean that we need to get rid of leveling in alliances, or go back to purely being a 6man party all the way to 75+ sort of game. I like small parties, but that's me. I'm not going to request that be forced on others. That's kind of fascist. But I do think there should be something implemented that encourages players to better know their roles and the full capability of their jobs. What that thing is, I have no clue. It's not my job to know. Just my opinion. Regardless I'm going to play and I'm going to enjoy it one way or the other. I certainly encourage others to do the same. If you don't like one way people play, play it another way. Who knows, maybe one day things will change and everyone (mostly everyone) will be happy.

ya I agree and the only reason as I mentioned before about taking away party alliances was due to leeches. that never exsisted in 6 man. It's much easier to leech in an alliance than in a 6 man party, but lovbunny brought out some good points that I haven't thought of and its's sad but unless SE is willing to change a bunch of things this game will always be a watered down version of what it could be... and knowing SE they really don't give two shits about a 10 year old game. and probably wont be willing to change that much stuff around to make this game better.

[Bulls]

Its good to have ideas, though for yours to work they have to do massive revamping, and SE will not do this. Skillup is like a free time sink for them, and they will not let us do faster skill ups, ever!! Otherwise everyone will do the new way of partying, alliance style lol, doing GoV for massive skill ups - which sadly they actually CAN but yet this has not been pick up by the majority of people and most tend doing it solo the slow way.

The current way of leveling is the best solution from SE part, it get rid of massive annoying problems of changing camps, level synch, finding xyz jobs etc... It democratize leveling and put everyone in similar playing field. And yeah, people took advantage of this, which is predictable, its human nature.

changing camps is the best part though seeing new area's etc and with an auto finder that warps you to locations it wouldn't be that much of a hassle. unfortunately SE just doesn't care enough about a 10 year old game to want to make the changes it needs to make the game a lot better especially with there new FFXIV out. you make good valid points but there's always room for good ideas. To be honest FFXI still has a lot of issues, they've added a lot to try and patch up most of the problems but there's still a lot of things they could have done differently and probably put more effort into to make this game good but they didn't. Unfortunately there isn't a big enough player base compared to something like WoW for them to want to even do that. oh well.. at least my idea is out there they can do whatever they want with it.

[Karbuncle]

I don't think skill ever played a factor. The only reason it was so difficult back then was because we were less skilled and intelligent. If anything, I'll go as far to say we are way more skillful as a community than we were in 2004-2005 era... DD Tanks are a direct result of our Skill and knowledge of game mechanics coming together with healers and what have you learning to regulate MP. That and gear improved, we no longer need the crutch that is PLD, DD's discovered PDT/MDT sets, etc. A lot of refresh too.

Also, some of the best "Strategies" of our time came from an Era where DD tanks were normal, the Salvage Era. Though for the most Part, I understand the idea of it. But Even if 6 man parties come into play, I think you'll be sad if you expect people to get better at their job because of it. The only way people will get better is if they want to learn, most of those people you see who are unskilled and undergeared are the types who have no intention to learn.

But this isn't about that, Its about the search finder party idea thing.

[Aldersyde]

Man, this topic comes up in some form or another every week and every week it's just the same arguments repeated.

[Karbuncle]

Man, this topic comes up in some form or another every week and every week it's just the same arguments repeated.

Yah, I know. But like Batman who continues to fight crime even though it keeps happening, the argument of "Skill" needs to be curbstomped no matter how many times it appears.

That, and I cordially invite you in the nicest possible way, To ignore the post if it causes you undue trauma.

[Bulls]

Man, this topic comes up in some form or another every week and every week it's just the same arguments repeated.


Yah, I know. But like Batman who continues to fight crime even though it keeps happening, the argument of "Skill" needs to be curbstomped no matter how many times it appears.

This thread isn't about the skill level of players, its about an auto-finder.

[Aldersyde]

This thread isn't about the skill level of players, its about an auto-finder.

No it's not; it's another post written under the influence of nostalgia about wanting to go back to days gone by...and dragging everyone else as well, whether they want to or not,

I saw the original post and you wanted xp gains taken away from alliance xp. It's no different than other topics about new styles of xp and the old six man style.

[Luvbunny]

This thread isn't about the skill level of players, its about an auto-finder.

That's the thing, with the current way of leveling alliance style, you don't really need auto finder anymore. You no longer need jobs xyz, people know where the camps are, they usually come to the playground with flags up and waiting in line to get invited. I seen many people with flags up, waiting in line to get invited in worm party, and the alliance keeps going 24/7 almost, same goes to Nest party and Gusgen party etc... Even at Zeruhm mine, leecher central for your alts, people will be more than willing to make a group to speed up kill.

Yes, the old ways of leveling forced you to move camps, exploring the game areas, seeing different things and mobs but thats because you can camp for a few level at one place before you have to move on. With the GoV, you can actually do something similar since Boyahda, Kuftal, Quicksand Caves, etc all offer similar thing. But again, people will gravitate to EASY to reach camp. Even in Crawler's Nest, page 2 will let you move to the old school beetle + crawler's camp but people do not do it since they have to navigate the maze that is CN. The same goes to abyssea camp, I mean seriously there has to be more options than your typical doll, buffalo, worm, frogs party... BUT people are lazy, they go for the proven camps, stick with it and will not try for new ideas. Just to prove that leveling grind is HATED by the majority of the players, they want to reach 99 and start having the fun that is endgame.

Also please understand the game mechanic CHANGED drastically, and what we used to call the standard set up has evolved dramatically. Monk, Ninja, Thf, War, Dancer +WHM can pretty much become a duo standard on abyssea NM mob, and then there is also a variety of "Creative Set Up" with pet jobs doing most of the tanking. A tank is not limited to Paladin any longer except for certain end game activities. So in a way, this new found freedom lets people who know their jobs to be creative in finding solutions to solve game mechanic challenge. Similar on how they come up with 2 scholars + 4 heavy melee DD for Neo Nyzul. The rest who still have no clue, will still have no ideas due to laziness and lack of effort to learn - no matter how you get your level.

Granted now that most of us are lvl 99 with various jobs, the new grinds are Voidwatch, Neo Einherjar, Walk of Echoes and Legion for the big alliance style, and neo nyzul/limbus etc for low man style. And those events have various different set ups than what you imagine of "standard set ups".

[Bulls]

No it's not; it's another post written under the influence of nostalgia about wanting to go back to days gone by...and dragging everyone else as well, whether they want to or not,

I saw the original post and you wanted xp gains taken away from alliance xp. It's no different than other topics about new styles of xp and the old six man style.

this post is indeed about an auto-finder and the 6 man parties. it's not about going back to the old ways or taking away alliance party exp. I made the thread... i would know what it's about.

I've also explained why I suggested exp gains taken away from alliance exp, and it was because of leechers not because I wanted to force people back to the 6 man set up, it was merely an idea and suggestion. you need to get your facts straight before posting.

Edit: Also there can't be an influence of nostalgia because I don't even know who this person you keep talking about " nostalgia " is (don't know if you're talking about the actual word meaning or a player that has posted in the past). I'm in no way saying we need to go back and relive 75 days of merit parties, etc.

[Bulls]

That's the thing, with the current way of leveling alliance style, you don't really need auto finder anymore. You no longer need jobs xyz, people know where the camps are, they usually come to the playground with flags up and waiting in line to get invited. I seen many people with flags up, waiting in line to get invited in worm party, and the alliance keeps going 24/7 almost, same goes to Nest party and Gusgen party etc... Even at Zeruhm mine, leecher central for your alts, people will be more than willing to make a group to speed up kill.

Yes, the old ways of leveling forced you to move camps, exploring the game areas, seeing different things and mobs but thats because you can camp for a few level at one place before you have to move on. With the GoV, you can actually do something similar since Boyahda, Kuftal, Quicksand Caves, etc all offer similar thing. But again, people will gravitate to EASY to reach camp. Even in Crawler's Nest, page 2 will let you move to the old school beetle + crawler's camp but people do not do it since they have to navigate the maze that is CN. The same goes to abyssea camp, I mean seriously there has to be more options than your typical doll, buffalo, worm, frogs party... BUT people are lazy, they go for the proven camps, stick with it and will not try for new ideas. Just to prove that leveling grind is HATED by the majority of the players, they want to reach 99 and start having the fun that is endgame.

Also please understand the game mechanic CHANGED drastically, and what we used to call the standard set up has evolved dramatically. Monk, Ninja, Thf, War, Dancer +WHM can pretty much become a duo standard on abyssea NM mob, and then there is also a variety of "Creative Set Up" with pet jobs doing most of the tanking. A tank is not limited to Paladin any longer except for certain end game activities. So in a way, this new found freedom lets people who know their jobs to be creative in finding solutions to solve game mechanic challenge. Similar on how they come up with 2 scholars + 4 heavy melee DD for Neo Nyzul. The rest who still have no clue, will still have no ideas due to laziness and lack of effort to learn - no matter how you get your level.

Granted now that most of us are lvl 99 with various jobs, the new grinds are Voidwatch, Neo Einherjar, Walk of Echoes and Legion for the big alliance style, and neo nyzul/limbus etc for low man style. And those events have various different set ups than what you imagine of "standard set ups".

Luvbunny we get it you don't like my ideas on this topic, you don't have to keep writing paragraphs on why you think it's bad. I've already explained to you in detail what my idea was. you said your piece already and made some good points, but now your point is getting very redundant.

[FrankReynolds]

Luvbunny we get it you don't like my ideas on this topic, you don't have to keep writing paragraphs on why you think it's bad. I've already explained to you in detail what my idea was. you said your piece already and made some good points, but now your point is getting very redundant.

You've already stated your point too. This is basically a contest to see who gets the last word now.

[Bulls]

You've already stated your point too. This is basically a contest to see who gets the last word now.
Last word? lol do you see anything in that post to luvbunny about what this post is even about? Jeeze dude stop trying to instigate arguments about stupid shit that doesn't even relate to the topic.

[Karbuncle]

Derailing a Derail is totally not Derailing if its being Derailed by the OP.

I actually have an Idea though. Flesh out your idea. Compile it in the OP as well, Edit it and take the ideas that have been made here.

[Luvbunny]

Luvbunny we get it you don't like my ideas on this topic, you don't have to keep writing paragraphs on why you think it's bad. I've already explained to you in detail what my idea was. you said your piece already and made some good points, but now your point is getting very redundant.

I don't dislike your idea, it has some good points, with further thinking and more fleshed out ins and outs maybe could become a really valid one. You never know, the new expansion is coming out soon, maybe they will present us with another novel game mechanic, just like ToAU changed the way we do xp party, WoTG introduced a free for all battle system, and Abyssea further reboot the entire system - Seekers of Adoulins could give us entirely brand new mechanic. And hey, your idea may be one of the new things, you never know :)

[Bulls]

Derailing a Derail is totally not Derailing if its being Derailed by the OP.

I actually have an Idea though. Flesh out your idea. Compile it in the OP as well, Edit it and take the ideas that have been made here.

good idea :p

[Bulls]

I don't dislike your idea, it has some good points, with further thinking and more fleshed out ins and outs maybe could become a really valid one. You never know, the new expansion is coming out soon, maybe they will present us with another novel game mechanic, just like ToAU changed the way we do xp party, WoTG introduced a free for all battle system, and Abyssea further reboot the entire system - Seekers of Adoulins could give us entirely brand new mechanic. And hey, your idea may be one of the new things, you never know :)

mmkay , lol ya never know anything can happen.

[scaevola]

Is it just my imagination or is the recent flux of people reactivating a giant group of bawwing nooblets? I've been seeing a lot of people in the game who are shunning alliance exp, cleaves, and abyssea in-general. It's almost like they want to stay forever-gimped. Ironically, these have all been people who never did endgame or understand it.

My favorite is the crocodile tears wrt CoP level caps being eliminated.

EDIT: my necros are the best necros

[Luvbunny]

My favorite is the crocodile tears wrt CoP level caps being eliminated.

Yeah I remember the uproar when this happened, all the crocodile tears and all who actually crazy enough to spent some time doing this, me included twice for different characters before the nerf lol. I do LOVE the fact that this missions are nerfed into oblivion and now there is almost zero challenge to finish it, which is face it a bunch of running around non sense with a very long unskipable CS all for one ring at the very end.... Glad all missions are now completely manageable with only a couple people to complete.

[Bulls]

Its good to have ideas, though for yours to work they have to do massive revamping, and SE will not do this. Skillup is like a free time sink for them, and they will not let us do faster skill ups, ever!! Otherwise everyone will do the new way of partying, alliance style lol, doing GoV for massive skill ups - which sadly they actually CAN but yet this has not been pick up by the majority of people and most tend doing it solo the slow way.

The current way of leveling is the best solution from SE part, it get rid of massive annoying problems of changing camps, level synch, finding xyz jobs etc... It democratize leveling and put everyone in similar playing field. And yeah, people took advantage of this, which is predictable, its human nature.

Recently got an idea about the whole skilling up thing, they could add a temp buff or something that brings you to level skill just for the party while your real skill levels up normally in the backround. you would still need to level it for end game and other stuff but it would solve the skill up problem for an auto-finder.

[Luvbunny]

I don't think people find it a problem nowadays to find what they are looking for. For Voidwatch they just do massive shouts and generally spots will be filled fairly quickly. Abyssea party depend on what time of the day, on busy time, tons of people waiting with their flags up at worm party camp, you never run out of people to invite. Seal farm usually done with LS or your buddy, but then random shout still works too. Magian trials are done the same way, via random shout or you just go to the zone and search and ask them to team up - can also seek with comments. Skill ups party usually done solo anyway in abyssea, the loner who do it in GoV usually do not mind teaming up. So you see, there is hardly any need for auto finder. But if they are going to do it, they should do it like how WoW did theirs, pooling people across server for an instanced dungeon.

[Bulls]

I don't think people find it a problem nowadays to find what they are looking for. For Voidwatch they just do massive shouts and generally spots will be filled fairly quickly. Abyssea party depend on what time of the day, on busy time, tons of people waiting with their flags up at worm party camp, you never run out of people to invite. Seal farm usually done with LS or your buddy, but then random shout still works too. Magian trials are done the same way, via random shout or you just go to the zone and search and ask them to team up - can also seek with comments. Skill ups party usually done solo anyway in abyssea, the loner who do it in GoV usually do not mind teaming up. So you see, there is hardly any need for auto finder. But if they are going to do it, they should do it like how WoW did theirs, pooling people across server for an instanced dungeon.

we all know that , and i never said anyone had a problem with how things are now but there's always room from improvement and making things better. no offense but you sound like someone that doesn't like change cause in almost every post you've made, you say something on the lines of "how things are now, just leave it the way it is".

so there is a need for autofinder to make things easier so people don't have to wait around or wait in lines that people sometimes do. there are many reasons why an autofinder would be a great addition, I know you can't see that because you like the way things are now but i believe ffxi always has room for improvements. open your mind, stop looking at what there is now and step out of the box for a bit.

[FrankReynolds]

we all know that , and i never said anyone had a problem with how things are now but there's always room from improvement and making things better. no offense but you sound like someone that doesn't like change cause in almost every post you've made, you say something on the lines of "how things are now, just leave it the way it is".

so there is a need for autofinder to make things easier so people don't have to wait around or wait in lines that people sometimes do. there are many reasons why an autofinder would be a great addition, I know you can't see that because you like the way things are now but i believe ffxi always has room for improvements. open your mind, stop looking at what there is now and step out of the box for a bit.

Isn't there already an autofinder?

[Lyberty]

I didnt read all the posts tbh but what I think it would be a good solution is to restrict abyssea to 70+ only... One of the reasons is because you dont have that real need to upgrade your gear each couple of lvls... Ppl nowadays just go exp naked then farm their AF3 and thats it... At least for me each gear i could wear after lvling was very rewarding and fun... That would bring back the old style parties and let the higher lvl players into abyssea style party (which i find awesome, but not from 30) well those are my 2 cents to this thread... I know that not everyone will agree but I know that we all have different opinions.

[Mirage]

People will go where ever they get the most exp/hour or other stuff worth their time.

If they added 600k/h 6-man camps that showered you with gil, people would have the exact same attitude to abyssea alliances as they now have to 6-man parties.

"lol abyssea r u dumb? you want to go back to 200k/h parties?"

[Bulls]

Isn't there already an autofinder?

not that I know of, the autofinder im thinking of would automatically find the jobs you need, put them all in an alliance or 6 man party without looking for them or doing the /sea all , and then warp you to selective area of your choice.

the seeking system they have now is manually done

[FrankReynolds]

not that I know of, the autofinder im thinking of would automatically find the jobs you need, put them all in an alliance or 6 man party without looking for them or doing the /sea all , and then warp you to selective area of your choice.

the seeking system they have now is manually done

That sounds awesome. I would love for there to have been a system like that from the get go. Sort of like finding matches in a FPS game, where it would just pair you up and give you some options for battlefields. Unfortunately, I think the dev team is gonna look at this idea1 and go "Sounds like a lot of work. We'll keep that in mind for our next MMO. In the mean time, there's abyssea right over there. Have fun.".

I wish they had done what you just described from the games inception though. It would probably have made the game far more popular than it was / is.

[Bulls]

That sounds awesome. I would love for there to have been a system like that from the get go. Sort of like finding matches in a FPS game, where it would just pair you up and give you some options for battlefields. Unfortunately, I think the dev team is gonna look at this idea1 and go "Sounds like a lot of work. We'll keep that in mind for our next MMO. In the mean time, there's abyssea right over there. Have fun.".

I wish they had done what you just described from the games inception though. It would probably have made the game far more popular than it was / is.


lol ya, at least the idea is out there so they can see it! maybe they'll think about it lols