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View Full Version : Suggestions for New Content, and Suggestions for the Expansion.



Karbuncle
07-12-2012, 09:03 PM
Hello Square! Community Reps! Players alike!

Recently, a Discussion came up on another Website about the expansion, What players would like to see, what the focus could be, what you could add to fights to make them more interesting... Ways to counter PD Zergs, Chainspell Zergs, Etc. Not entirely eliminate it for every fight, but to add some fights that are simply more than just a CS > Zerg or PD > Zerg.

A lot of these strategies are useful, and I don't mind them, But some ask for fights that would require a good solid strategy, that would challenge your knowledge of the job, and your skills and monster knowledge.

Let me post some of these Ideas and concepts that were spitballed in this thread, as Well as me giving you an idea of all these concepts working together in sync. So Without further ado,

---Basic Concepts---

-Originally suggested by Yugl on Bluegartr



-Originally suggested by Me.



Originally Suggested by Me



Originally suggested by Rocl on Bluegartr.



Originally suggested by Taim Meich



---An Example of a Fight---

Lets take the above examples and put them together in a scenario. Lets start with the entering. Its an 18 Man fight. Time Limit 60 Minutes.




---In Closing

This will give dynamics to a fight, But its not going to fix real tanks, Like PLD. The above is just an example of how fights can involve more than zerging. Zerging i find a good strategy for some fights, But it would be nice if fights had a little more dynamic too them. P.S PLD still needs a fix. The above, while it would encourage a strong paladin, Would not fix the job, as Ochain/Aegis would vastly improve it.

The above is only an example of a fight that might make PLD more appealing, and use a "Single Tank" Style combat over DD Zerg combat. Its not to say all fights should require PLD, Its to say some variety would be nice. This shouldn't be retro-active, and should just apply to a small number of new fights. There would still be those fights you could PD Zerg (Dont wanna make SMN useless), But there would also be those fights that discourage Zerging.

Feel free to add your opinions. Remember, none of the above is intended as a fix to be the absolute next content, Just an idea of how adding some small ideas could lead to a dynamic fight, that can change each time you play, but remain entertaining for a time. Every game gets boring, every event will get old, But its no reason to not try something new.

Throwing 3 HNMs at us in the same time doesn't involve strategy, its Zerg and hope for the best. Many Vs 1 HNM fights are the best ways to make dynamic battles, focus on one aspect, and make it something you can enjoy doing the first few times, since thats all you can hope for.

SpankWustler
07-12-2012, 11:53 PM
I really like the simplicity of the "this machine kills 2-hour abilities" idea. Obviously, it wouldn't be a good mechanic if used very often, but I think the concept is interesting.

Difficult monsters and Perfect Defense going together like my crippling existential misery and the drinking of mouthwash (or a lock and key, for the more adjusted among you) is getting a bit old.

Phases and changes throughout a fight are always good. Even if it's just a specific action at a certain level of HP, such as the way both Odins roll, being able to predict and deal with drastic changes is more strategic than simply predicting a massive HP pool and dealing with drastic area-of-effect spells and abilities.

Particularly if the phases come with physical damage resistance or an aura that is bad news for melee, because that's the only way I can imagine folks who cast Blizzard and whatnot coming close to buffed folks who hit things with things. Given, the folks who cast Blizzard generally have far more utility, but the difference in damage is just that huge unless something is present that makes melee mostly miserable.

As for enmity and tanking and tanks, that's a weird issue. I honestly think there's no one easy solution there, and making monsters do weird stuff will just make fights feel awkward if that's the only thing done.

The enmity system needs work. Vague and much easier said than done, but still true.

It would probably help if "tanks" evolved into something more like guardians or caretakers or leaders or father-figures or whatever for the party. This is how the tanking role works in many modern games, both single-player and online, in which the "tank" is more of an all-purpose damage mitigation system for a group than simply a brick wall that stuff might want to hit sometimes.

Also, as the party's father-figure, Paladin's new two-hour ability could be giving a monster a disappointed look until that monster gives up on performing stand-up comedy and casting Kaustra on people in funny-looking armor. With a single tear running down its cheek, assuming it is of a species with both eyes and cheeks, the monster would hand over whatever it may have dropped and trudge off to see if any desperate medical schools might accept it.

Except for Arch-Dynamis Lord. He would respond by coming out of the closet and tromping off to open a very successful Bear Bar somewhere in New England, taking his Umbral Marrow with him because I think that stuff is the equivalent of body hair for him.

That stuff isn't really related to monsters or new content, though...so...

Monsters themselves really do need stronger single-target or conal skills that aren't just casting Death, and these should generally be more damaging than the area-of-effect jazz rather than more or less the same.

TLDR Version: "Anything that reduces the huge importance of Perfect Defense is good. I like phases and changes. I worry enmity-stuff and tanking-stuff are basically irreparable. Thursday nights at Beara Slash remain lame due to too many college-kid sightseers."

Karbuncle
07-13-2012, 12:03 AM
Enmity is a huge issue, And SE seems to have no way to fix it, I think making PLD a strong presence in the party might be a good direction. Think like a Tanking BRD, Except not as drastic as that. It would improve your own parties defenses, as well as its own. RNK seems like it might be taking this path as well though.

So instead of Enmity being the focus, the focus should be making enemies damaging enough that a DD Tank might not be the safest solution, but it has to be damaging in a way that removes a lot of what makes DD Tanking Viable... PDT/MDT Sets, and to a lesser extent, Fanatics/Fools.

Making certain special enemies normal hits a Non-Elemental Magic attack (Like Twilight Scythe) so it ignores most/all Defenses would be a start. It would hurt PLD, but if the Enemy was given a high Damage (Think of it like, a D:150 Weapon), But only a moderate attack, a good PLD Could overpower his attack, and dip the enemies damage down quite low. Would have to rework the fact mobs pdif bottoms out at 1.0, At least for these enemies.

I'm not against DD Tanks, IN fact, the above could be done as easily with a DD Tank by allowing the use of PDT/MDT to work finely, But PLD would just be a safer bet. You also have to look at jobs like NIN who don't fill many rolls well in this scenario.

Its a tough issue to resolve, Enmity and the way PLD plays, play a big part in why tank jobs are a dying breed in FFXI. That issue won't be solved overnight, But dynamic, Zerg-resistant fights could still be introduced, DD Tank or no.

Rosina
07-13-2012, 09:06 AM
i skimmed thru some of it. And i like. I'm beyond tired of the zerg fest that ffxi player base (*on forum) calls good. it makes fighting so dull..... its like "wait for proc" >> "massive zerg"

Rekin
07-13-2012, 10:32 AM
The suggestions presented by the OP could turn this game's meta on its head. Developers please seriously consider some of the provided suggestions... assuming its not lost in translation.

Karbuncle
07-13-2012, 10:55 AM
Also as a bonus to my original idea, this type of Zerg-resistant fight also encourages a spot for Debuffers. Since the mob would be killed in a slow manner, Debuffs would be more valuable, since its not just a PD/CS Zerg.

So it might give a small part to Red Mage, or at the very least, some debuff jobs.

Rosina
07-13-2012, 11:28 AM
Also as a bonus to my original idea, this type of Zerg-resistant fight also encourages a spot for Debuffers. Since the mob would be killed in a slow manner, Debuffs would be more valuable, since its not just a PD/CS Zerg.

So it might give a small part to Red Mage, or at the very least, some debuff jobs.

i welcome this. my main used to be rdm... then with all the bs i ended up putting down my sword. ; ;