Retalliation for Skillups / Latent Breaking Madness

[Crisco]

This may be common knowledge already, but based on feedback from LS friends and others, I felt inclined to post here.

While being warrior in Abyssea can be extremely fun with a GA, in most cases you'll be required to use just about everything else available to you for misc red/blue procs. So for anyone either new to warrior (was my case) or procrastinated on weapon skillups and breaking WSNM latents, meeting those red/blue proc requirements can be both difficult and time-consuming. Luckily, there's a solution.

If you're 90, this strategy works semi-effectively solo within Abyssea, and is utterly mind-blowing if you have a RDM (alt or otherwise) with good Enhancing skill to cast Phalanx2 on you.

Effective Target Areas

Abyssea - Altepa
Abyssea - Attohwa

* there's probably tons more to choose from, but this is where I've gone

Target Mobs

Mandies
Chigoes

* essentially, anything that hits for moderate-low damage and fast

General requirements

Retalliation (duh)
Defender (optional, but helps)
Aggressor (for more frequent retalliation)
/SAM - Significantly increases TP gain and almost required to make latent breaking work while solo.
/DNC - Effective for solo skillup.


What you need when solo inside Abyssea

Atma - Mounted Champion
Atma - Razed Ruins
Atma - Ducal Guard

* This atma set is by far not set in stone, but it's been the most effective for me. When solo, Ducal Guard is a MUST if you plan to pull more than a couple mobs.

What you need with RDM PL inside Abyssea

RDM must have a good amount of merits (3-5) into Phalanx2 -OR- /SCH, and Moderate-High Enhancing skill.
Atma - Mounted Champion
Atma - Razed Ruins
Atma - Various. Just pick this based on the strength of the mob (another regen or -PDT for T+ mobs) or what you're doing (I preferred Sea Daughter for breaking latents and Haste/-PDT for skillups)


What you need to do
This process is very simple.

You go to a target area.
Find a target mob that is EP-DC.
Pull as many of them as you can, while maintaining a stable HP level.
Pop Retaliation and Aggressor as soon as they're up (& Defender if solo) and ensure most, if not all, mobs are in front of you.
If you're going for skillup, just idle and watch the points roll in. If you're going for latents, find a WS combination to get you at least to level 2. Most, if not all, weapons WAR can break can self-level2.


-- Using this strategy, I've been able to take almost every weapon from ~180-300+. You could probably attempt to start at a lower skill (maybe 150) but the skillups would be significantly slowing, since retaliation is directly dependent on accuracy. Perhaps accuracy food might help? I just followed this same pattern on mobs in the Boyhada Tree; taking my RDM PL, just pulling 5-10 robber crabs at a time, and migrating back to abyssea around 180.

Known combons for level 2 skillchains
These are just the once I used to break latents. The rest, either I've yet to do or already had em done; you can easily find a skillchain chart to look up those.

Great Axe: Raging Rush -> Raging Rush
Staff: Full Swing -> Full Swing
Club: Skullbreaker -> Skullbreaker


Good luck, and happy swinging!

[Byrth]

If you're solo, it's much less work to just stack Regen Atmas and afk on high defense monsters.

Stronghold/Vicissitude/Mounted Champion, Haste gear, Hasso, Retaliation, Defender, come back every 3 minutes and reuse the three JAs. I personally used Turtles in Tahrongi because they're really high defense, have a lot of HP, and go up to EM. I got 40 levels of Scythe in a night (no Bahamut's Zaghnal) this way while watching a movie with the girlfriend.

Even if you didn't before, we're all going to have infinite stones when we return anyway. I would be over 150 even if they lifted the maintenance today.

[hiko]

your rdm doesnt need any merit in phalanx2 (/sch aoe phalanx)
pop agressor too for higher acc and lower eva(more retalliation)

[Crisco]

Yes aggressor helps, I forgot to add that. And sure, 1 mob at a time with tons of HP will be 'easier', but with this method I can do 180-260 skill on any weapon in less than an hour. I can also break latents in 20 min flat with RDM PL.

[Mojo]

I was able to take staff from 150 > 300 while also unlocking Retribution. Total time about 90 minutes in Abyssea. Solo I think it's best to do Tahrongi Canyon on WAR/RDM. With a full PDT set you can still get the damage down really low, so much that Atma of the Mounted Champion will keep you alive.

[Crisco]

Only problem with WAR/RDM is reapplying phalanx. I was never able to make it work consistently, so I gave up on it.

[Byrth]

I was able to take staff from 150 > 300 while also unlocking Retribution. Total time about 90 minutes in Abyssea. Solo I think it's best to do Tahrongi Canyon on WAR/RDM. With a full PDT set you can still get the damage down really low, so much that Atma of the Mounted Champion will keep you alive.

For skilling up, what is the benefit of /RDM over /SAM and Hasso? I could see making an argument for /WHM (if you're patient enough to cast Haste on yourself), but not /RDM.

[Mojo]

I said for solo, in which case Phalanx is essential of you want to do it fast.

[Byrth]

I said for solo, in which case Phalanx is essential of you want to do it fast.

Why? I put on 50 HP/tick and afk on turtles in full Haste gear with Hasso.

Edit: ooooh, you mean for mass skilling up with multiple weak monsters. I'm past the point where I could survive a crowd of that size that still gives skillup even with Phalanx and PDT gear.

[Mojo]

That's not true. You can get the damage dealt from Fear Dearg down to 0 per hit.

[Crisco]

Why? I put on 50 HP/tick and afk on turtles in full Haste gear with Hasso.

Edit: ooooh, you mean for mass skilling up with multiple weak monsters. I'm past the point where I could survive a crowd of that size that still gives skillup even with Phalanx and PDT gear.

If you don't remember, SE made a change in the most recent version update so you can reach skill cap on mobs that check DC to you. So that means just about anything in Abyssea is fair game. You should be able to hit cap on anything from this method. Granted it might get slow towards the end, but it must be possible.

[Arcon]

Not just possible, it is easy. /RDM for Phalanx works ok, not that geat. Target areas I'd say are mandies in Tahrongi Canyon or (if Tahrongi is overcamped, which is usually the case) mandies in Misareaux Coast.

Atma choices:
Atma of Vicissitude
Atma of the Stronghold
Atma of the Mounted Champion

All of these give DEF and Regen to a total of 50 HP/tick. Staying alive against multiple mandies is not an issue with this. All out DEF/PDT gear and Defender up, you'll quickly take < 20 damage/hit in Tahrongi, < 30 damage/hit in Misareaux Coast.

When I did it I was /BLM for D2, /RDM for Phalanx is a nice idea but because of the low enhancing magic skill, mobs still get through it. Rather just get 3~4 mandies and change targets occasionally. 4 mandies hitting on you will give you skillups like crazy. In the time I got Staff from 270 to 330 (~ 1 hour) I also got parrying from 260 to 266, which is insane. Normally I don't even get a single skillup in 1 hour, this really made me wanna do more.

Of course Staff is easier 'cause Terra's Staff has PDT-20%, but it should still be possible with other wapons with less mandies (2~3 depending on your other gear). I didn't even have dark rings with any kind of DT bonus, or Grim Cuirass or Metallon Mantle, so if people do, it should help them a lot.

[Mojo]

Phalanx is still good even on RDM subjob. You can shave off 11 damage per hit, 12 with some gear many people have around or that's cheap off the AH, and 13 if you're hardcore about it. 50% PDT with Defender & Tacos will result in very close to 0 every hit. I used 2 PDT atma and Atma of the Stronghold when it did it and was able to safely do around 15~ mandies solo, maybe more.

[Nepharite]

Have you guys tried to skill up on fortalices in Xarca[s]?
Just seems a lot easier than this, although this would work better for breaking latents.

[Arcon]

Have you guys tried to skill up on fortalices in Xarca[s]?

They don't skill high enough and not fast enough, because you can't use Retaliation to its full potential, easily the best skillup ability in the game.

[Nepharite]

They don't skill high enough and not fast enough, because you can't use Retaliation to its full potential, easily the best skillup ability in the game.

You could get up to 276 before the update that changed what you could skill up to.
Also you can afk on them. So I guess if you want to do it as quickly as possible, abyssea retalliation skllups are faster. Although if you want to do it more easily, fortalices sound more logical.

[Crisco]

I tried the forts, and the skill range I saw was horrible. And even with the lowest dmg weapon, you're killing it in less than 5 minutes when you're 200+. I didn't post this thread to say it's the only way to skillup, as it obviously is not. However, if you have the appropriate atmas and/or a RDM PL, you can complete a weapon(180-300+)+latent in 1.5-2hrs each.

[Nacht]

I tried the forts, and the skill range I saw was horrible. And even with the lowest dmg weapon, you're killing it in less than 5 minutes when you're 200+. I didn't post this thread to say it's the only way to skillup, as it obviously is not. However, if you have the appropriate atmas and/or a RDM PL, you can complete a weapon(180-300+)+latent in 1.5-2hrs each.

Don't know what weapon you're using, but I got from 175 to 260ish GK over several hours using either 3 or 5 fortalices. First one lasted at least 3 hours due to misses. Last one lasted at least an hour or two.
D 1, 280 delay GK

This was while doing hw, paying minimal attention.

[Greever]

They don't skill high enough and not fast enough, because you can't use Retaliation to its full potential, easily the best skillup ability in the game.

Counterstance also works wonders :D

[hideka]

counterstance + retaliation = insane skillups. with proper atmas for regen, PDT, and a healer backing you up, you can take EASILY 10 mandies at once, and youll counter damn near 100% of their attacks

[Mojo]

Counterstance is only useful for other jobs that don't have retaliation. You're actually hurting yourself quite a bit by using it on WAR (for skilling up purposes, that is to say.) If you have a healer that allows you to go WAR/MNK, 50% Retaliation + 10% Counter rate => 55% chance of striking back at the mob. If you activate Counterstance, your Counter rate goes up to 50% which will produce an overall 75% chance of striking back. However, flooring your defense means you can only pull about half or less of the mobs that you were before. So while your chance of striking back may have risen by a marginal 35%~, the occurrences for this to occur has dropped by at least a factor of 2. It's not worth it. You can literally fight every single Fear Dearg in the zone with Phalanx + PDT, so if you have a healer to assist you then you should be doing that.

Also, for those who might have trouble recasting Phalanx if you're WAR/RDM. There is a trick to it. You need to get yourself up against a wall and then move back a little bit (hugging the wall.) This will actually cause all of the mandies to gather at almost the exact same spot right in front of you (which is good for Retaliation anyways.) Then, when you need to recast, run backwards a bunch and begin casting. Their pathfinding gets really jacked up and it takes them about 10 seconds to start hitting you again.

[Greever]

Counterstance is only useful for other jobs that don't have retaliation. You're actually hurting yourself quite a bit by using it on WAR (for skilling up purposes, that is to say.) If you have a healer that allows you to go WAR/MNK, 50% Retaliation + 10% Counter rate => 55% chance of striking back at the mob. If you activate Counterstance, your Counter rate goes up to 50% which will produce an overall 75% chance of striking back. However, flooring your defense means you can only pull about half or less of the mobs that you were before. So while your chance of striking back may have risen by a marginal 35%~, the occurrences for this to occur has dropped by at least a factor of 2. It's not worth it. You can literally fight every single Fear Dearg in the zone with Phalanx + PDT, so if you have a healer to assist you then you should be doing that.

Also, for those who might have trouble recasting Phalanx if you're WAR/RDM. There is a trick to it. You need to get yourself up against a wall and then move back a little bit (hugging the wall.) This will actually cause all of the mandies to gather at almost the exact same spot right in front of you (which is good for Retaliation anyways.) Then, when you need to recast, run backwards a bunch and begin casting. Their pathfinding gets really jacked up and it takes them about 10 seconds to start hitting you again.

Oh i wasent saying go war/mnk for both ja's lol. was just stating that counterstance is also another really easy JA to gain skill ups from >.>.

[Babekeke]

Going for Maat's Cap and I levelled war first of the remaining 11 jobs I needed to get to 66+ purely for the fact of retalliation. Other notes on skilling up, I took many of my gimp weapons to 175+ from 93 (was the lowest) in The Tree using the lower tier mandies. I use /DNC for acc steps and cures, along with a xbow and bloody bolts. My Marksmanship is ~270 now so I can afford to use tacos for the mandies and pull 7-10 at a time for insanely fast skillups. Just remember to keep swapping your target mob to keep your max amount of mobs targeting you for retalliation.

[Yandaime]

This thread is actually what gave me a "Smack My Head" moment lol because it was so obvious. But yea, I used this strategy to cap all of my weapons and get every WS quest done within a week :) I did something slightly different that I think is more effective or is at least very damn effective lol, Ill explain. And yes, I have a pocket RDM, having Phalanx 2 is just so nice for this lol.

Instead of full Regen Atmas, I use 1 Regen and 2 -PDT Atmas: Mounted Champion, Lion, Earth Wyrm
Just need any combination of -20% Damage and some Regen and your all set honestly.
Use full -PDT Gear and Accuracy where you cant fit any -PDT (because Retalliation is Acc based)
Eat a Sushi if your Accuracy/Skill is really low, its not vital but it helps a great deal
And I highly recommend bringing the weakest possible weapon if you can just to make sure you are sitting on the mobs for a long time

All that said, I HIGHLY recommend Attowah Chasm for skillups. Why? Korrigans! The Korrigan mobs are all MNK types so they hit very weak and always twice and they aggro and Link making it super easy to gather them. And with all the defensive measures, these things will hit for 0 every time and will only occasionally Critical Hit you for 8-12 Damage tops which will be easily Regen'd with Mounted Champ. What I do is have the Pocket RDM sit off to the side and cast Phalanx on me, I run around and Aggro EVERY SINGLE KORRIGAN I CAN FIND (Dont get trapped by the Miasma, Caution) and pull them over to the RDM just outside of AoE Sleep Range and get to work :) I Like Attowah because the little Cracks in the floor cause the Korrigans to all line up single file for some weird reason which makes it beautiful for Retalliation, but you can do Altep as well just wont be as easy to group the mandies. When the Miasma is down, you can grab anywhere from 20-I think 30 Korrigans for skillups and when its up, 10-15 or more, never really counted lol.

The only thing Ill say is DO NOT AoE WS ever because Retalliation does damage but has 0 Emnity so if you do something to actually aggro the Mandies, your RDM will get owned when its time to recast Phalanx II. And WAR/RDM does work but omg its a severe uphill fight trying to recast Phalanx... Maybe with 3-5 mobs but after doing this with 20something mobs? Im never going back lol

[Arcon]

I Like Attowah because the little Cracks in the floor cause the Korrigans to all line up single file for some weird reason which makes it beautiful for Retalliation, but you can do Altep as well just wont be as easy to group the mandies.

Actually, the cracks aren't what causes them to line up, it's the walls. If you run to a wall, and move alongside it to the ride, the mandies will all line up (works with any other mob and any other wall as well). So you can do this in Altepa too. Altepa and Attohwa are nice, because the mandies aggro and are a lot easier to pull than, say, Misareaux or Tahrongi (not to mention people abuse Tahrongi mandies for Chloris 24/7).


The only thing Ill say is DO NOT AoE WS ever because Retalliation does damage but has 0 Emnity so if you do something to actually aggro the Mandies, your RDM will get owned when its time to recast Phalanx II. And WAR/RDM does work but omg its a severe uphill fight trying to recast Phalanx... Maybe with 3-5 mobs but after doing this with 20something mobs? Im never going back lol

There's actually some gear to make it more powerful, but I agree, it's not as good as people make it out to be. Anyway, you shouldn't WS regardless, since it will only kill your mobs faster, unless, of course, you need WS points. Apart from that though, just wait till you melee them all down, which will take ages. You can cap a weapon from 0 in about two hours, not exaggerating. If you're after WS points, try picking WS that will do chains, possibly even multistep ones, if available. You'll be able to spam WS back to back, and self-SC constantly, you'll be finished with WS points in half an hour, if even that.

[Yandaime]

Oh, no Walls do indeed help but Im not joking, its something about the cracks in the floor that make the Korrigans line up single file and even all of them standing inside eachother. You can use the walls, just like you said, to help line them up, but with larger enemy groups, I always tend to get a few stragglers that keep going behind me but it'll pretty much take alot of tweeking and back stepping to get them into a nice fan-shape. But those cracks? they just do it automatically lol