Forum tone

[RagingAvatar]

Why is the tone of this forum so aggressive?

I've come here as a fan of FFXI and hoping to connect with some other fans of the game but instead I find that the general tone of the forum is one of wanting to prove who is 'right' when many of the questions and issues we're arguing about are personal preferences and opinions.

To be honest, it's not very welcoming and I'd like to see people commit to caring for the FFXI community. We're all here because we actually like this game - let's build a community around that.

No-one wants to build a community around someone because they're right but around the game because we like it.

Thanks for reading.

[Randwolf]

The reason is that people know these boards are monitored by S/E staff. If you feel strongly about how something in the game SHOULD be, there is a fear that not conveying that message strongly might result in something you don't like happening in the game.

Just my take on it.

[cidbahamut]

Have you just never been part of an MMORPG forum before or something? This is all pretty standard.

[Dazusu]

Not so, WoW forums are actually much nicer than this, good debates, and well thought out posts. Can't think of a better example for "other MMO". Here people just wave their opinion around as fact. OP makes a valid point, and I agree with him.

[Zerich]

RDM is so perfect and useful, I love how PUP is the perfectly balanced job, DRK and DRG are loving the view...

What, does OP want people to lie on here?

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Not so, WoW forums are actually much nicer than this, good debates, and well thought out posts. Can't think of a better example for "other MMO". Here people just wave their opinion around as fact. OP makes a valid point, and I agree with him.

lol, no it's not!

[Jackstin]

This board is far more positive than XIVs. I think the reason is because there's a huge divide between people who want the game to progress, and people who like the way the game is. With XIV everyone agrees it is or at least was sucky.

[Camiie]

Grrrr! I'm not aggressive and if you say it again I'll punch you in the face!

I think FFXI's community is emotionally attached to the game in ways you just don't see elsewhere and so we tend to be very passionate about how we think things should be. We're also quite scarred by years of abuse and neglect by SE. Some of us are very vengeful and some are stricken with a form of Stockholm Syndrome. That's not a good mix for things to be all hunky dory.

[Hayward]

Not so, WoW forums are actually much nicer than this, good debates, and well thought out posts. Can't think of a better example for "other MMO". Here people just wave their opinion around as fact. OP makes a valid point, and I agree with him.

To quote Da Coach in his prime: "Who you crappin'?"

I put my share of opinions out here and stand by them until they're proven incorrect, but you're the last person who should level that argument I bolded for your convenience.

Zerich pretty much sums up the counterargument to this thread. We cannot, and should not, turn a blind eye to flaws in this game that can and should be addressed to the benefit of its players. Arguments against this defy basic logic.

[RAIST]

Grrrr! I'm not aggressive and if you say it again I'll punch you in the face!

I think FFXI's community is emotionally attached to the game in ways you just don't see elsewhere and so we tend to be very passionate about how we think things should be. We're also quite scarred by years of abuse and neglect by SE. Some of us are very vengeful and some are stricken with a form of Stockholm Syndrome. That's not a good mix for things to be all hunky dory.

A lot of truth in this post. For some....7+ years of neglect on their job of choice. Those people have tried and tried for years to affect desperately needed adjustments to this game....those people have the experience to know what may be be best for those jobs/events and such, but still get neglected/disrespected.

Hate to be the one to open up the can of worms, but I guess someone has to do it eventually....

I say it often in the LS when someone brings up a question or is debating something about a job or an event...."ask so and so, he's played the job or done that event for forever and a day". I try to defer to those with the experience...but when you learn something about a job/event, and you really know it, then you should be able to speak up when someone is touting something that is incorrect or otherwise misinformed. It's more about keeping the record straight than you being right. Facts are facts, knowns are knowns, unknowns are unknowns.

We'll never truly know all there is to know about this game...but there are some that have taken the time and effort to dig up a lot of this crud and tested it over and over. It's all out there on the wiki's and other partner sites/forums. Has been for years--I read up on a lot of it before I even bought the game to make sure I really wanted to get involved with it. But.. that's just me. If more people would actually do the research and learn this stuff in the first place (or at least ask around in their LS and such), they wouldn't have to come here to get an education.

[Dazusu]

I put my share of opinions out here and stand by them until they're proven incorrect, but you're the last person who should level that argument I bolded for your convenience.

Observation, not argument. Just because I disagree with the majority on some topics, doesn't mean I think my opinion is fact. By nature, opinions are neither 'correct' or 'incorrect'. I refer more to the people who cannot comprehend that differing opinions exist: "You don't share my opinion, so therefore, you are stupid", etc.

[Westyle]

This is pretty much standard for any video game board.

[SpankWustler]

I've never encountered a forum about Final Fantasy XI that did not have this tone.

I assume it's the one-two punch inflicted by so many game elements not doing what they say, or far more often, saying literally nothing about what they do. This gives people about a hundred extra things to argue about and also makes "doing it right!" far less obvious.

All video-game forums are basically globs of socially awkward people stuck to a dorky brick, though.

http://khoralnet2.free.fr/casio3.jpg

[Flyinghippress]

Agreed with OP. So much hostility and misplaced testosterone on the internet in general...

[Helel]

Not so, WoW forums are actually much nicer than this, good debates, and well thought out posts. Can't think of a better example for "other MMO". Here people just wave their opinion around as fact. OP makes a valid point, and I agree with him.

12 year-olds tend not to be able to argue very effectively. Their language tends to be less aggressive as well.

[Dazusu]

12 year-olds tend not to be able to argue very effectively. Their language tends to be less aggressive as well.

Good point ;D

[Kojo]

Why is the tone of this forum so aggressive?

I've come here as a fan of FFXI and hoping to connect with some other fans of the game but instead I find that the general tone of the forum is one of wanting to prove who is 'right' when many of the questions and issues we're arguing about are personal preferences and opinions.

To be honest, it's not very welcoming and I'd like to see people commit to caring for the FFXI community. We're all here because we actually like this game - let's build a community around that.

No-one wants to build a community around someone because they're right but around the game because we like it.

Thanks for reading.

Because the people who were banned from other, unofficial FFXI forums for being antagonistic were welcomed here with open arms, and since SE has a more official way of looking at things, "Being an ass" nor "Being a troll" isn't a bannable offence.

[svengalis]

Not so, Here people just wave their opinion around as fact.
Welcome to the internet.

[Kitkat]

I think it is more based around the fact that each time players have tried to nicely convey what their thoughts were to the dev team it was taken in the wrong manner. What the player wanted was lost from what the player got, if anything at all. Naturally, when it comes to feeling as though your suggestions fall on deaf ears it becomes increasingly more frustrating to the point that niceties eventually fly out the window and are replaced with logical derivatives based on that persons train of thought (aka opinion) and conveyed in an aggressive way so as to make sure the proper point is made rather than leaving it up to misinterpretation.

More or less, it is like talking to an asshole who doesn't think you really get what it is he is talking about so he will tell it to you like you're a small child seeing the world for the first time then argue the point in the hope of driving it home. Not to mention the amount of 'trolls' you run into here on top of it, so yes....the tone of these forums is like a big room full of assholes stating their opinion then dick slapping each other in the face to see who leaves the biggest mark. That is my opinion on it, and if an SE rep has an issue with that description...then they can edit it out, but I've seen far worse that gets ignored on this forum.

[Reiterpallasch]

12 year-olds tend not to be able to argue very effectively. Their language tends to be less aggressive as well.
Assuming this is implying that everyone who plays that game is immature children. Which is funny, because my raiding guild was primarily made up of people in their 20s all the way to 50s, who had families and children that were likely older than half the people I've come across in FFXI.

[Rosina]

I personally think OP isn't talking about Us vs SE. But is Us vs Us. I've been in forums on and off since their launch, and ALL i see are petty fights over non issues. I have my hand in it but that is due to my passionate personality. But for better or worst I meant no insult as I see everyone as an equal and I have no means to judge others. Unless actions prove otherwise. I think we should act most like a community, and less like a japanese anime color gang wars ala Durarara!!!. (good anime) I've seen petty insults over each players playstyle which is utter rediculous.

Anyway just giving my 2 gil. Carry on.

[RagingAvatar]

Rosina is correct.

[Tamoa]

I I have my hand in it but that is due to my passionate personality.


You know, it's entirely possible that you're not the only one on this forum with a passionate personality.

Some forum posters (on this and other forums) are amazingly skilled when it comes to painting a huge target on themselves, and some will take it even further and hand out both weapons and ammo to everybody else. Some players will call out anyone who's posting "information" that's blatantly wrong. Those that then go "whoops my bad, I was wrong" is fine in my book. Those that get all defensive and refuse to listen even after they've been proven wrong, is more often than not asking for it, imo.

I personally only use 2 other FFXI forums, and the forum tone there is no different from here.

[RagingAvatar]

I personally only use 2 other FFXI forums, and the forum tone there is no different from here.

That doesn't make it okay - let's attempt to have a better community, in fact, the best FFXI community!

[cidbahamut]

That doesn't make it okay - let's attempt to have a better community, in fact, the best FFXI community!

Or you could wake up and deal with reality. Idealism will only take you so far.

[Rosina]

Or you could wake up and deal with reality. Idealism will only take you so far.

You know you can just help instead of hinder. He is right just because other forums are such and such, don't mean this forum can't be better.
@ Tamoa
Being snide about a past arguement, and done so in away that makes it obviouse you are trying to further it pretty much hinders the improvement. Ever heard the expression "let sleeping dogs lie (sp)" why even bring up such a thing after a year.
So far all i've gotten in thes forums since returning are people wishing to start a fight with me over posts i made A YEAR AGO.
Heck i thought WoW forums was bad, or Aion... but that takes the cake right there.
Honestly i got called a troll for sharing my personal experince and opinion and in no way saying it was fact or shoving it down peoples throats.

I've been pretty pleasent since coming back. Yet a few key people want to drag me down over petty stuff.

[Karbuncle]

Not so, WoW forums are actually much nicer than this

Its really not, It just has the illusion of being nicer. Blizzard literally Blows up any post that might include naughty words like "poop" or "Meany Head". ... What I'm trying to say is they're very very strict there. It just seems nicer. Go to any other widely known WoW forum, and it'll be like ever other MMO forum ever in existence O___O


, good debates, and well thought out posts.

There's plenty of those here, its just drowned under a wave of "ABYSSEA IS DA DEVIL" and "THUR SHEWLD BE A LEVEL CAP ON ABYSSEA" and "GROWNZ OF VALUR SHOULD BE NURFD", oh and "GEAR SWAPPIN IS FOR HACKURZ AND BOTTRZ AND ELITISTS"

Good debate and conversation can only happen if people are willing to listen and learn. Most people here do not. And you can't really blame some of the more informed posters here for getting impatient with a few of the more ... notorious "idiots" (Sorry, Lack of better word) ... posters here.

Plus, i feel this forum is actually very tame all things considered. Its not really that bad... Its not candyland, But its really pretty tame. Moderators do their job if you actually report negative posts.

[Tamoa]

@ Tamoa
Being snide about a past arguement, and done so in away that makes it obviouse you are trying to further it pretty much hinders the improvement. Ever heard the expression "let sleeping dogs lie (sp)" why even bring up such a thing after a year.



Rosina, please note that not once did I mention your name in my previous post. I meant exactly what I said - some forum posters are very, very good at drawing negative attention to themselves, both here and on other forums. If you actually took that as a personal attack, that's on you and not me. The only thing I said that was a direct response to you, was this part here:


You know, it's entirely possible that you're not the only one on this forum with a passionate personality.

because it sounded to me like you were making excuses for yourself, saying it's ok for you to get upset on this forum since you have this passionate personality. So I simply pointed out the obvious: other people also have passionate personalities, you're not alone there. Meaning if you believe you're allowed to get upset due to your passionate personality, you have to allow the same thing for others.

[Helel]

Assuming this is implying that everyone who plays that game is immature children. Which is funny, because my raiding guild was primarily made up of people in their 20s all the way to 50s, who had families and children that were likely older than half the people I've come across in FFXI.

Aw, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Since your guild had people over age 20, then the entire game must have people only over age 20 as well. Good point.

One glance at the world chat (? I don't know what it's called ingame) pretty much confirms how many 12 year-olds play that game. Jeuno yells can be similar, but they're not nearly as bad.

[Camiie]

I personally think OP isn't talking about Us vs SE. But is Us vs Us.

You can't really separate the two. SE creates an atmosphere that leads to a great deal of animosity from some players toward them. Other players seek to defend SE from that animosity or see the reasons that animosity exists as a positive. It all kind of just blends together into a big mess. That's why we are where we are.


One glance at the world chat (? I don't know what it's called ingame) pretty much confirms how many 12 year-olds play that game. Jeuno yells can be similar, but they're not nearly as bad.

Honestly, I would bet you that the vast majority of people online who come off acting like 12-year-olds actually are adults.

[Rosina]

@ tamao

I read your post in full, I wasn't making an excuse. I was appologiesing for action of the past. I like this game alot and in some cases hate how the community turned out after a while. But as I stated i read your post in full. and there is a part you over looked which heavily implies you meant me. And that is the part of fighting passionately over misinformation rather then backing down saying "i was wrong". Pretty much this is what I see, you and shadowsong... mostly shadowsong seems to be forum stalking me and trying to counter any opinion I make. Simply because its me and not what I actually type. At least that is how it looks.

As for WoW forums... they do suck. When i played @ cata launch I was on an rp server, moonguard. Ingame for no apparent reason I got called a w h 0 r e, a horde, and a horde w h 0 r e. I went to ask why I was bullied on said forums and was told said bullying was justified, by the community. And i let slip what i was called as a counter point and i was temp banned.

[Rosina]

to add cuz i hit the text limit (man i wish my pc worked)
in short i was temp banned for sticking up for myself after being bullied.

really stuff like that happens in WoW easy. Aion is much worst both in game and on forums. DCUO online is the same, it kinda shity. Only other "decent" community i saw in an online game was a MUD called Lustrion.

[RagingAvatar]

You know, it's disappointing in itself that we're having to even have a discussion about whether aggressive attitudes on forums are okay or not - it's really sad.

This game is still, in my mind, the best game ever made. I've been a fan for years - and if were all able to meet up, I'm sure we could have friendly banter over who is the bigger fan yadda yadda - I want that kind of camaraderie here - where we are here to make like minded friends over the game we love.

Rosina, thanks for your input, I really appreciate it. Also where did you get that awesome signature picture?!

[Tamoa]

Rosina, just like you're not the only one with a passionate personality, you're also not the only one who's ever been misinformed on this forum.

I made an observation, not an attack directed specifically at you.

[RAIST]

Rosina, just like you're not the only one with a passionate personality, you're also not the only one who's ever been misinformed on this forum.

I made an observation, not an attack directed specifically at you.

And there in lies the problem....it's easy to think a post has got you in the crosshairs if the topic hits close to home. sometimes have to take a step back and think if it's really an attack on you, or just a statement in general.

In Tamoa's defense....he/she did start a new paragraph after addressing Rosina directly. This is a device typically used to seperate topics, train of thought....when you shift gears in a conversation, you start a new paragraph. As such, I got the impression this was a new point being addresssed and was no longer aimed at the person addressed in the previouus statement. Tamoa opened up the paragraph referencing posters not only on these boards, but others as well--further supporting the feeling this was a shift in who was being addressed.

BTW, there are a LOT of people that fit that description, many of which have not been posting here since the big payment system fiasco. I'm sure most all of us have opened ourselves up wide for criticism with their opinions here. Lord knows I've had to take my lumps in the past....

[Meyi]

It's so aggressive because we have a lot of moronic posts.

[Reiterpallasch]

As for WoW forums... they do suck. When i played @ cata launch I was on an rp server, moonguard. Ingame for no apparent reason I got called a w h 0 r e, a horde, and a horde w h 0 r e. I went to ask why I was bullied on said forums and was told said bullying was justified, by the community. And i let slip what i was called as a counter point and i was temp banned.
Well, in your defense for a change.... Moonguard is notorious for it's rampant ERP (erotic role-playing), especially around Goldshire. You may have very well been in a very wrong place at a very wrong time. "whore" may not have necessarily been a direct attack however. Being called "horde" on the other hand... only offensive if you play alliance? lol

[Rosina]

Well, in your defense for a change.... Moonguard is notorious for it's rampant ERP (erotic role-playing), especially around Goldshire. You may have very well been in a very wrong place at a very wrong time. "whore" may not have necessarily been a direct attack however. Being called "horde" on the other hand... only offensive if you play alliance? lol

omg ya i know.... i was lvl one human too i was just cheching the server out so I can rp on it. WoW players even fail @ rp. They look at your base job and react to ur based job if u play rogue ur automatically evil If u play warlock ur automaticaly evil. Your personal story has no meaning... I only playec rogue to make a pseudo monk who was part of the scarlet monestoary b4 it went to shit.

I also in WoW suggested monk class and neutral races. I was hit with so much hate... "oh they never gonna add monk just play rogue with h2h" "oh wow never gonna add neutral race.. waste of money" >.> mist of pandara..... has both

[Rosina]

Ok thank you tam sorry for the mix up, just shadowsong been on my butt all day.... so ya a lil paranoid. My appologies. I alway was only speaking for myself i never speak on the behalf of others. That is why i stated i got a passionate personality. As for my forum siggy a poster named kingfury or kingofury was drawing ppl siggy/posters I printed mine out and have it framed too. Pretty mych the concept was all my idea and he drew it. The character is based off a character i was writing a book about.

[Karbuncle]

My good Madam, There is an Edit Button.

You can use it like this. To add to an Existing Post made within mere minutes of eachother with no responses inbetween them.

[Rosina]

My good Madam, There is an Edit Button.

You can use it like this. To add to an Existing Post made within mere minutes of eachother with no responses inbetween them.

can you read

PS3 GOT TEXT LIMIT. (not shouting just making sure you see it this time) >.> when i make a new post ..... I post on the ps3 cuz my bros laptap died... not my fault there is a character limit.

[Terrigenesis]

All who complain about the forums here, go look at Diablo 3's forums and say we are all aggressive and hateful lol

[Rosina]

I would like to know why all content suggestions always go back to rewards given rather the content itself. I proposed a question in both the "yes" and "no" timed spawns for hnm. Which so far has not been replied.

Or fall back on the reward given as a reason.
I simply asked
"why do hnm need to be on a 24-48 hr timer? how is this good for the community?"

as you can see this is a simple question about the content... not of the reward.

SE has been very good at have many was to earn rewards and items.
I'm prob a rare bird, but I do content to do content. I don't do conent soley for the reward i may or may not get.

A fun fight, story to be apart of, and a good memory is more then enough reward for meself. (this is my sole opinion and in no way am i saying others need to be like this)

I feel this type of mind set to replying to others over content makes understanding the thinking or reason behind your cause hard for anyone to listen to. From what I knoe SE is always looking for feedback and suggestions.

[Rosina]

(text limit)

But inorder for SE to consider it, you should place a suggestion with a decently thought out reason as to why this addition would be good for the game and good for the community. I think if people did that more then what is going on currently with "i want this because i want this" and have no other reason. SE would take our suggestion into more consisderation.

Remember SE is spending our money adding said content and addition, and wish to spend it more wisely with what we would like that is also good for the community.

[wish12oz]

All who complain about the forums here, go look at Diablo 3's forums and say we are all aggressive and hateful lol

lol.... f that game fir rilz. I loved d2, but after a month of d3, its just no fun anymore. I expected more from Blizzard and Diablo honestly.

[Rosina]

lol.... f that game fir rilz. I loved d2, but after a month of d3, its just no fun anymore. I expected more from Blizzard and Diablo honestly.

lol even on the ffxiv forums did the imfamous real money AH item that cost $200 was nerfed was talked about. (sorry complete mind fk right there choco quest so mind numbing....

anyway reply....

even the ppl on ffxiv forums talked about the d3 nerf of an item that on the real money AH that was listed as $200.

pc idk if i ever said this ur forum siggy pic is cute...
ps... I used to be on odin :P XD sorry just wanted to tease.

[WorkMatt]

I don't really notice a forum tone, everyone in this community seems pretty cool so far. Usually you meet a lot of trolls in most mmos. Anyways my take on it is, people have opinions, and these opinions should be addressed, but once someone gets smug and insulting about their point well it does start to cross a line. But this is also the internet, we don't really have any control over the way people communicate with each other. I do agree to an extent with the forum creator, we should be more respectful of each other, specially since we are all gamers and FF fans. Maybe I haven't been here long enough, but even on this thread I don't notice how everyones snide or insulting. But based on many other games I do agree with the OP, some people take their opinions way to far, but if somethings broke we need to fix it, and if nobody will fix it people need to speak up.

[Teraniku]

I would like to know why all content suggestions always go back to rewards given rather the content itself. I proposed a question in both the "yes" and "no" timed spawns for hnm. Which so far has not been replied.

Or fall back on the reward given as a reason.
I simply asked
"why do hnm need to be on a 24-48 hr timer? how is this good for the community?"

as you can see this is a simple question about the content... not of the reward.



Rosina, the reason why a lot of people always go back to the reward, is because some people would never consider doing said content, if it wasn't for the rewards of completing it. I like doing the stories in the game. I'd still do them even if the rewards were less than spectacular (WotG and ToAU case in point) Some people do them just for the reward (So you'll see them get sky, get the DM earring, but never finish Zilart because there's nothing tangible in doing so, and most did so later once the Apocalypse Nigh fight was added, just for the earring that was rewarded in that fight)

[Rosina]

Rosina, the reason why a lot of people always go back to the reward, is because some people would never consider doing said content, if it wasn't for the rewards of completing it. I like doing the stories in the game. I'd still do them even if the rewards were less than spectacular (WotG and ToAU case in point) Some people do them just for the reward (So you'll see them get sky, get the DM earring, but never finish Zilart because there's nothing tangible in doing so, and most did so later once the Apocalypse Nigh fight was added, just for the earring that was rewarded in that fight)

that i know but i was saying their share there opinion on reward being "rare to see making them feel good" rather then reply my question on. like ppl want hnm for rare gear that a select few will get. And want times to be 24+hr yet don't say why its a good thing for the game or community only themselves. which ofc is not what I asked.

[Karbuncle]

All who complain about the forums here, go look at Diablo 3's forums and say we are all aggressive and hateful lol

Boy, I didn't want to say it - Glad you did.