Why PlayStation 2

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Make of this what you will.


Better colors--It may be possible to fix this by mucking about in settings, but the default settings for both the PC and Xbox 360 versions have colors that are very washed out. After getting accustomed to playing on the PlayStation 2 for a while, on other platforms it will become difficult to see the difference between the white text of /say and the red of /shout.
Better 2D--With this game being so menu-heavy, it doesn't take long to notice how well the PS2 renders them as compared to other platforms. Even fonts and icon and item art look better, most visibly because of the lack of the thick, black borders on everything on the PC and Xbox versions. Granted, the PS2 is probably the reason why it looks like the art on other platforms look drawn with a Sharpie, but the end result is the same.
No mucking about with gamma--This deserves to stand apart from the first "better colors" point above. It "just works," in contrast to the other two platforms. Most damningly, as the original update notes themselve state, gamma settings on the PC version need to be changed between full-screen and windowed modes.
Smoother framerate--Your mileage will obviously vary on the PC, but the framerate on the PS2 is typically higher than the Xbox 360 in the same situations, and I don't pretend to know why. And I'm not even talking about using the Xbox in HD mode.
Smooth docking--This is a graphical glitch that has plagued the PC version since launch, and was ported over to the Xbox 360. Docking ships and airships aren't actually supposed to suddenly jump to the right during docking scenes. PlayStation 2 players know this.
Different clipping algorithm--This is most noticeable walking along Drogaroga's Spine in Meriphataud Mountains, but can be seen anyplace where a mountain can suddenly snap into existence on the horizon as the camera moves. The PS2 instead will draw any surface closer than the clipping plane, even if it's only part of a complete object.
No grids in the sky--This is most noticeable in overcast skies, as is usually the case in Xarcabard.
No "Xbox Camera Disease"--Most noticeable in a Mog House, where moving the camera in third-person can cause sudden seizures.
No ATI or nVidia video drivers--Self explanatory.
No zoning lag--As just about every Xbox player knows, there is a ~1 s hang soon after changing areas, each and every time. You may get desensitized to it over time, but you will notice it if you change platforms and come back, and it will drive you crazy.
Discless play--For a few fleeting days, it was possible to play the Xbox 360 version without having a disc in the drive. No more. Meanwhile, launching the PlayStation 2 version from the HDD was originally the only option. Booting with a CoP or later disc is simply a luxury that allows for faster startup times.
No disc read errors--Not only are discs not required, they've yet to actually become a problem on the PS2, in stark contrast to the Xbox 360.
Full sound during character creation--Hear the running Tarutaru gasp to catch her breath while dancing! Hear the Galka scream to the heavens as he pounds his fists on the ground! Wonder why you can't hear these things on the PC or Xbox. Also wonder what other sounds may be missing from gameplay itself.
PlayOnline yell--Every time you start.
/shutdown does what it says--There is no need to hold your breath while signing off, hoping the Xbox Dashboard loads successfully; this command actually shuts down the PS2.

[Arcon]

Make of this what you will.

Here's what I make of it (please keep in mind that I know next to nothing about the 360 version, so all of this considers the PS2 vs PC comparison):


Better colors
Better 2D
Smoother framerate
No grids in the sky
No "Xbox Camera Disease"
No zoning lag
Discless play
No disc read errors

These either only apply to the Xbox 360 or are wrong, but none of this applies to the PC version.


No mucking about with gamma
No ATI or nVidia video drivers

Both these points are configuration issues and require only a one-time adjustment (and not to everyone either, as most people using a PC will already have their appropriate video card drivers installed, and Windower takes care of the gamma settings).


PlayOnline yell

No idea what that is.


Smooth docking
Different clipping algorithm
Full sound during character creation
/shutdown does what it says

This is what remains of the pro-PS2 argument to me. In addition to that I believe characters load faster on the screen.

Now the different clipping algorithm thing is a matter of preference. Some people may not prefer their landscape being shredded because some surfaces of objects are before and others behind the clipping plane, but instead display only objects once they can be rendered properly. In addition to that, this can be completely enhanced with a purely cosmetic Windower plugin.

Sound during character creation, while nice (I guess), is also a one-time thing (or a finite-time thing). It's some overhead you'll deal with once or twice, and if you can't live without environmental sounds during that period, then I guess PS2 wins in that regard.

So the only things remaining are smooth airship docking, shutdown working properly and characters loading faster. Of those three, with only the last one being of any importance to me personally, but overall, I guess that leaves 4~5 arguments for the PS2 for other people.

And just to be clear, I'm not trying to discredit you or anything like that, this is just my take on the issue. Informative posts showing only one side of an argument can be considered propaganda, even if presented in a neutral way, so I wanted to make sure to give some commentary on those topics.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

90% of the OP is BULL.

[sc4500]

As a person that has played on ps2 and 360 (played with launch 360 locked ups, rrod fixed xbox and a elite xbox)and had duel boxed both them at the same time at one time and currently on the xbox 360 the slim version most thing op has said is wrong the only thing right is the gamma and that just the emulater that there using to run the game since game coded to run a dial up game when xbox was design run on a high speed connection.

Yes older xbox hardware has a hard time with some of the stuff op has said he was right but outdated, but most new version of the xbox 360 hardware side has fixed it might be some the software updates microsoft done or square done over the yrs or just the hardware on the newer systems running the emulater program better.

Most of the issues with game is the game was programmed to run a dial-up speed and a xbox hardware was design to run high speeds connection reason there are a few issues with xbox version if they fixed the game and drop all the old dial up code then xbox and pc version game would be insane.

[Camiie]

that just the emulater that there using to run the game since game coded to run a dial up game when xbox was design run on a high speed connection.

Dude... wait... what?

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

PC:
ATI Radeon HD 4600 series
driver version 8.17.10.1059

All FFXI Config and in-game settings are default, with the exception of being in windowed mode, and config and in-game gamma settings are set as per the November 2007 update notes (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/update/ff11us/20071120wwnX41/detail.html).

PS2 captured using s-video. Results will be better with component video or (with a PS3) HDMI (and not going through a capture card to begin with).

Joytoy on a PS2:
http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/archive/0c6s1dFlkdgL1xuSd1cG3A24hcBTsIEASiM2gQ15RA.jpg

Joytoy on PC:
http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/archive/0c6s-PXY7IwFIExwH-FQOWLUyJV3dhUASiL7rHJ6GE.jpg

Note the thick black line around the edge of the blade. Also note that the transparency behind the sword itself is less than impressive.

Konschtat Highlands, thunderstorm, PC:
http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/archive/0c6sryLzWgL71wep5NizGJzuy4RzvtAASiM1gB1EqM.jpg

Note the dot grid in the clouds.

Konschtat Highlands, thunderstorm, PS2:
http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/archive/0c6sUdabA2lUbsKgA45-h-gv-G_YWCYASiLkFMVMOc.jpg

No discernible pattern.

The sharper text colors aren't as pronounced on s-video and/or this tuner card's capture hardware and/or WinTV 7. I'll see what I can do with software configuration settings later.

S-video is all I can capture and I lack an s-video cable for my Xbox 360, so side-by-side framerate comparisons of (e. g.) running through Windurst will have to be done by someone else.

[saevel]

The "PC" version comes set to 640x480 default resolution and a 256x256 rendering target. It's beyond crap, and you can set it to 1920x1080 with a 2048x2048 rendering target inside FFXI's own config program. 360 will render either 720p or 1080p depending on what your screen is set to, background appears to be 1024x1024.

The OS is trolling everyone here in an attempt to stir up angry comments. Promptly ignore him.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

you can set it to 1920x1080 with a 2048x2048 rendering target inside FFXI's own config program.

Done and done. All other settings the same, except for the in-game aspect ratio setting, which was changed to 16:9. Thankfully, there was another thunderstorm in Konschtat Highlands.

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/archive/0c6s5cu0sL2Gt5eHSi0ou0tVARXTjRkASiOpe3nt04.jpg

Higher resolutions actually make these flaws more pronounced. I wasn't using the PC's default settings only for their own sake.

[Twille]

You can play on the PS2 all you want, you just can't play the new content. PS2 is outdated. Let the past stay in the past.

[Dazusu]

Unsure what you hope to achieve with this post. People to run out in their thousands, bang on Sony HQ's doors and cry for them to make more PS2 sporting hard drives? Not going to happen.

Sadly the days of PS2 for this game are numbered. Time to accept it and move on.

[Teraniku]

Translation of OP: I'm trying to convince SE to put out the new Expansion Pack for PS2 and here's why.

Counter Argument for PS2: Freezing and crashes during Cutscenes, Since there will be new Mission / Story for the expansion, this is the main reason to switch to, imo, better hardware.

[RagingAvatar]

Please understand Teraniku, that given that the expansion is coming out on PS2 in Japan, there will be no increase in performance of the game even though (at the moment) the PS2 expansion isn't coming out in the US.

The PS2 is still going in Japan.

[Arkemn]

i should also like to point out. That they wish to Phase out the PS2 so that they can. Update the graphics and physics. PS2s are seriously dated if. I play with max settings on the PC and could care less about pixel problems. In some cases the plants are brightly colored in the night time. If people would jump off the PS2 wagon then there would be a much better game in place. Alas i fear we have to suffer at the hands of retro gamers.

Let us move into the future and get back on top. I been playing alot of years since NA launch i have sunk thousands of dollars into this game with buying boxes. Sending in certified letters to get a hacked account unlocked. With that said I am a giant fan of this game. I hope for bigger and better things in the future. Tho as long as we have to deal with dated tech then we will see this game die. Nothing against PS2 players let your ps2 go into the retirement villa For old Great Gaming systems. They need a break.

[RAIST]

Please understand Teraniku, that given that the expansion is coming out on PS2 in Japan, there will be no increase in performance of the game even though (at the moment) the PS2 expansion isn't coming out in the US.

The PS2 is still going in Japan.

Can't really say for sure that the non-PS2 editions will not be getting any new tweaks in the first disk expansion in several years. The last two had minor tweaks to them, it's possible that trend may continue. Also remember they've already got non-PS2 UI tweaks and newer graphic elements in the works already. So, they've obviously already started showing an interest in non-PS2 tweaks. We could actually receive some much needed improvements in that new box in 2013....they can cram around 4GB worth of new data on a DVD if they wanted (8GB if dual layer).

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Translation of OP: I'm trying to convince SE to put out the new Expansion Pack for PS2 and here's why.

Counter Argument for PS2: Freezing and crashes during Cutscenes, Since there will be new Mission / Story for the expansion, this is the main reason to switch to, imo, better hardware.

Not your opinion, fact!

Further proved with the upcoming UI adjustments, EP etc...

[Ritsuka]

when you first install POL on the PC it plays that video with sound. on the playstation ihe song plays every time and boot up which is kinda nice i like it. Wish the PC would play that everytime i launch the game too. You need to have the POL disk tho when the game was first made. It doenst work with the downloaded vista POL viewer. Check it out on youtube somebody posted it.


IF they did w ant to retire the ps2 from this game which i dont see why they would need too. They should at least make a HD remake for the ps3. Most ppl who have ps2 have a ps3 now. Not as expensive anymore

[Insaniac]

The PC icon looks way better too me. Anyone else? Also you should post a side by side of a character model on PS2 vs. PC 2048x2048. I do agree about the weird patterns in the sky. They have always bothered me but not enough to even consider dealing with the myriad shortcomings of the PS2.

[Zerich]

The PC icon looks way better too me. Anyone else? Also for posterity you should post a side by side of a character model on PS2 vs. PC 2048x2048. I do agree about the weird patterns in the sky. They have always bothered me but not enough to even consider dealing with the myriad shortcomings of the PS2.

i second this. yeah, it looks like i'm in tron when i stare at the sky in CoP areas, but overall, the PC version (when you fiddle around with the resolution settings) is far more pleasant to my eyes.

and yes, i played on my ps2 from '05 to '09.

[seya]

If Se would have done this right and shut ps2 in all regions i think none of us would be here trying to get a version but they didnt , they gave the Jp the ps2 the new expansion and Na the finger ....

[RAIST]

when you first install POL on the PC it plays that video with sound. on the playstation ihe song plays every time and boot up which is kinda nice i like it. Wish the PC would play that everytime i launch the game too. You need to have the POL disk tho when the game was first made. It doenst work with the downloaded vista POL viewer. Check it out on youtube somebody posted it.


IF they did w ant to retire the ps2 from this game which i dont see why they would need too. They should at least make a HD remake for the ps3. Most ppl who have ps2 have a ps3 now. Not as expensive anymore

If you're talking about the intro video...it's a toggled option on the PC.

[seya]

I play the ps2 version in a ps3 , back in the day i just remember buying a ps3 because Se was saying they would release it on a ps3 , like i say before i own a pc version as well i hate it , now do i have to buy xbox to play or get a better pc because Se screw us again ...lol i think not

[Kaisha]

OP just trying to justify that PS2 is better because of the nature of 480i and analog signal actually making the image quality look worse, which in his eyes looks 'better' since they hide faults/shortcuts/discrepencies used to make it run on the PS2.

The only 'edge' PS2 has against PC is faster model loading, and I'm still baffled as to why the devs never took the loading delay off of the PC release this many years later.

Pretty damn sure PS2 has the camera jitter issue also, which the PC has as well. At any rate, its a known thing that the 360 port was shoddily written. Even running through town it couldn't maintain 30fps. PS2 on the other hand cheats by using super low-resolution shadow rendering among other little cheats in its small 512x512 framebuffer.

At any rate, good luck reading player/enemy names beyond 5 feet on PS2, or not crashing randomly when cutscenes or certain NPC interactions occur.

[Reiterpallasch]

I play the ps2 version in a ps3 , back in the day i just remember buying a ps3 because Se was saying they would release it on a ps3 , like i say before i own a pc version as well i hate it , now do i have to buy xbox to play or get a better pc because Se screw us again ...lol i think not
What is it in particular that you hate about the PC version? Because with some minor tweaks, the game will look and play much better than on a console. And no, you don't need anything 3rd party related to do so.

[seya]

i play on a mini gateway laptop what i hate about it everything , i play ps2 version since release , yeah i probally can make it look better but why do i have to buy another system to play ffxi ? if i already have 2 ( 3 if u count my old ps2 wich i dont use it ) i rather stop playing ffxi and start playing skyrim ( name might be wrong ) i know is not a online game but has enough content to not care about online games

[Byrth]

The menu-expanding animation also works on PS2 and doesn't appear to work on any other platform I've ever used. On other platforms, the menu expands out to a larger size than it should be, but on the PS2 it expands out to the right size. This could be a byproduct of mucking around with the resolution settings, or it might not. I don't think I've ever had it work properly.

[seya]

But u people missing the whole point here , stop defending SE , i play on whatever i like is not anyone's problem , i Know ps2 is an old system but i play on a ps3 ,Se is at fault here for never releasing on a ps3 and now they give Jp the new expansion on ps2 version and not us and they do have choices ... PSN is one of them since probally 75% of the people that uses ps2 version is on ps3 other one is pol download ... i would understand if they didnt support all the ps2 users but why only the Jp .. we are paying costumers as well

[Daniel_Hatcher]

But u people missing the whole point here , stop defending SE , i play on whatever i like is not anyone's problem , i Know ps2 is an old system but i play on a ps3 ,Se is at fault here for never releasing on a ps3 and now they give Jp the new expansion on ps2 version and not us and they do have choices ... PSN is one of them since probally 75% of the people that uses ps2 version is on ps3 other one is pol download ... i would understand if they didnt support all the ps2 users but why only the Jp .. we are paying costumers as well

Quite clearly they did the survey to see the numbers, a large number of Japanese people play on PS2/PS3, not enough people in NA or EU do to warrant the cost of making it.

You forget SE pay to make the disks, games and they'd pay to put it on PSN, if the profit doesn't warrant the cost no company would be dumb enough to waste money on it.

PS. It's an online game not a single-player game, if something halts expansion than it IS other peoples problem.

[seya]

even if they wanted to make Sonny dont do ps2 cds on Usa anymore , thats why i say there is others choices for Na players , btw EU never got ps2

[Daniel_Hatcher]

even if they wanted to make Sonny dont do ps2 cds on Usa anymore , thats why i say there is others choices for Na players , btw EU never got ps2

Yes, PSN which still costs them money to add it on, for something that wont benefit them cost wise.

Like I said, the survey they did previously was clearly to check who plays on PS2/PS3 and who doesn't, and the fact there is no PS2/PS3 version is clear enough proof that not enough people play it in NA.

As for the EU remark, I'm aware, but SE seems to brand EU and NA both as the same.

You need to remember FFXI is 10 years old, they will put as little money into it as possible, and milk it for what it is worth. the EP will probably be the last we ever see for FFXI and I wouldn't be surprised if it's tiny compared to the other EPs.

[Reiterpallasch]

i play on a mini gateway laptop what i hate about it everything
Ok thank you for clearing that up. Enjoy not playing the expansion because you're too stubborn to setup FFXI to play on a computer.

[seya]

Trust me i m pretty sure if Se put not only the new expansion but the whole game on PSN a lot people would buy it mostly because lot people that had a new ps3 that cant read ps2 games wanted the game on ps3 , before there was no options but now Psn is putting ps2 games for download is just common sense u would not make money only on the expansion but the whole game itself and possible bring couple new players

PS i m done with this discussion , my 2 accounts will be cancelled if i dont get the exp on the system i want to play and probally lot other will too

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Trust me i m pretty sure if Se put not only the new expansion but the whole game on PSN a lot people would buy it mostly because lot people that had a new ps3 that cant read ps2 games wanted the game on ps3 , before there was no options but now Psn is putting ps2 games for download is just common sense u would not make money only on the expansion but the whole game itself and possible bring couple new players

And I guarantee you not enough to warrant the cost of not just the original game, but the new expansion for placement on the PSN.

There is a reason the game hasn't been added to XBOX Live Marketplace, which is the same reason as for the PSN.

PS. Goodbye then, oh and don't kid yourself.

[RAIST]

There is a direct path for migrating from Windows to XB360, as they share a lot of similarities in the background processes (especially if it's a fully compliant DX game). Microsoft even provides the tools to do the bulk of the work for the developers when they want to port to XB360. The same cannot be said for the PS2 to PS3--it would require a LOT more work to port it from the far more proprietary PS2 to an even more isolated proprietary PS3. They have already done the analysis and put that forth a loooong time ago. It simply was not a justifiable expense to make a new emulator for PS3 or do a rewrite from ground up--it would be akin to making a new game.

[Joslyn]

There is a direct path for migrating from Windows to XB360, as they share a lot of similarities in the background processes (especially if it's a fully compliant DX game). Microsoft even provides the tools to do the bulk of the work for the developers when they want to port to XB360. The same cannot be said for the PS2 to PS3--it would require a LOT more work to port it from the far more proprietary PS2 to an even more isolated proprietary PS3. They have already done the analysis and put that forth a loooong time ago. It simply was not a justifiable expense to make a new emulator for PS3 or do a rewrite from ground up--it would be akin to making a new game.

And yet they have no trouble porting over old games like GoW and Tomb Raider, and hell there making FFX in HD.. Its not that they cant they just won't because of laziness.

[Llana_Virren]

And yet they have no trouble porting over old games like GoW and Tomb Raider, and hell there making FFX in HD.. Its not that they cant they just won't because of laziness.

Don't mistake a business decision based on cost : profit for laziness. Just because you want something, doesn't mean it's a profitable/good idea to do.

[Joslyn]

Don't mistake a business decision based on cost : profit for laziness. Just because you want something, doesn't mean it's a profitable/good idea to do.

Ok then if this game was not profitable then why is it still going after 10 years when almost all other MMO's have died off after 3-4 years(and im not talking about WoW since that has a cult like following). Look yes its about profit but some games don't need to be rereleased to let those that played it yesteryear play it again, If that were the case I want Valve to re-release HAlf Life with the HL2 engine but they wont even though it would sell faster then most other fps's.

[Aldersyde]

And I guarantee you not enough to warrant the cost of not just the original game, but the new expansion for placement on the PSN.

There is a reason the game hasn't been added to XBOX Live Marketplace, which is the same reason as for the PSN.

PS. Goodbye then, oh and don't kid yourself.

You have no idea the exact amount of people who play on consoles or otherwise, because SE has never released this information. If you think they have, prove it and post a link. Just because you believe it, doesn't make it true. Don't tell me to look for it myself, if you're making an argument the onus is on you to back it up.

[Arcon]

Ok then if this game was not profitable then why is it still going after 10 years [..]

He didn't say FFXI wasn't profitable, he said making a PS3 port wouldn't be. Porting games like MGS to PS3 is good profit, because almost every MGS fan will buy it. But only very few FFXI players would buy a PS3 port, namely only a subset of the already small NA PS3 playerbase. And considering that if they don't make a PS3 port, many PS2 people would still be playing on different platforms, it's even less than that.

[Westyle]

I can always dream of this game getting the 2.0 treatment. I think if they remarketed FFXI now with an engine overhaul and versions available on current generation consoles it would be quite successful compared the original PS2 release. People back then were put off by the HDD's price tag, plus how difficult and slow the gameplay was. I enjoyed the game but it was next to impossible to make any progress solo.
I suppose the PS3 release of FFXIV would be a good measure of how an FFXI upgrade would fair.

[Teraniku]

Well if a certain company didn't region lock the PS2 / PS3 to begin with, this wouldn't be an issue. Since they could put all versions on the same DVD's and you could import them if you wished to have the expansion. Blame Sony, not SE.

[Llana_Virren]

Well if a certain company didn't region lock the PS2 / PS3 to begin with, this wouldn't be an issue. Since they could put all versions on the same DVD's and you could import them if you wished to have the expansion. Blame Sony, not SE.

Region lock is profitable, ironically.

[Teraniku]

Region lock is profitable, ironically.

Unfortunately, yes it is.

[Eric]

I can always dream of this game getting the 2.0 treatment. I think if they remarketed FFXI now with an engine overhaul and versions available on current generation consoles it would be quite successful compared the original PS2 release. People back then were put off by the HDD's price tag, plus how difficult and slow the gameplay was. I enjoyed the game but it was next to impossible to make any progress solo.
I suppose the PS3 release of FFXIV would be a good measure of how an FFXI upgrade would fair.

The problem here is that if FFXI were completely redone and then ported to PS3*, it would become competition for FFXIV, which is the last thing they need, considering that they're relying on a lot of the current FFXI players to join FFXIV once FFXIV-2 comes out.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

You have no idea the exact amount of people who play on consoles or otherwise, because SE has never released this information. If you think they have, prove it and post a link. Just because you believe it, doesn't make it true. Don't tell me to look for it myself, if you're making an argument the onus is on you to back it up.

I have no need to back it up with anything, you only need to look at the evidence. It's been said time and time again that JP players play it mostly on PS2, clearly that is true hence the PS2 version of the EP, NA/EU play it mostly on the PC, XBOX 360 then the remaining on PS2/3. Clearly as there is no EP for PS2/3 it has the SMALLEST number of players and NOT deemed cost effective to cater for them.

If you genuinely believe there is enough NA players on the PS2/3 then that is your prerogative, SE clearly don't see it as so thus they are NOT making the EP for PS2/3.


And yet they have no trouble porting over old games like GoW and Tomb Raider, and hell there making FFX in HD.. Its not that they cant they just won't because of laziness.

It's NOT laziness, it's smart Business. You have to remember games like the PSOne games are tiny in size, and ridiculously easy to port, almost like just uploading the ISO. PS2 games are not the same.

FFX HD has a big enough player base so therefore they are upgrading (yeah right, barely noticeable) safe in the knowledge it'll make the money back it cost easily. FFXI will NOT.


The problem here is that if FFXI were completely redone and then ported to PS2, it would become competition for FFXIV, which is the last thing they need, considering that they're relying on a lot of the current FFXI players to join FFXIV once FFXIV-2 comes out.

The problem is, if it was completely redone it'd probably cost more than making a brand new game and really wouldn't get that many new players. FFXIV 2.0 is a massive update, with a lot of Shops looking to market it as a new game, and game reviewers willing to class it as one. It has the potential to sell and get a huge playerbase. FFXI will never achieve that now not unless they made it F2P.

[Avina]

I think it is fair for people to complain about it. This SE is a business and this is a product they pay for, and if it is taking the direction its consumers don't want, the consumers should be able to complain.

That being said, I agree with the statement that SE has made this move because of it just not being profitable enough. I think that survey we filled out a year or so ago where we indicated our system preference has a lot to do with this. Not enough people indicated the PS2 as their preferred system in NA/EU to make it a profitable venture. Its not racism,its that the money is not there.

As its been noted, in Japan the PS2 still lives. I can't think of a store here that still sells,much less markets PS2 games anymore.

[Gilraen]

Talk of upgrading FFXI isn't new and has been met with the argument of being too costly to be feasible. This is why the game still looks the way it does. The GUI update isn't really an overhaul, just a touch-up with new code introduced from XIV (ironic, that). Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to inquire of they will make the Japanese PS2 disk region-free.

[Kitheren]

I've played on PC, PS2 and XBOX 360. Here's my opinion.

The PS2 ran fast, I had minimal lag, rarely disconnected, no discs. But the graphics omfg. There's other downsides, I'm sure. I only played on PS2 for a short time.

The XBOX 360 has pretty graphics, pull it out of the box and install the game (no additional equipment or setup required, aside from a sufficient amount of memory). But I lag so bad in congested areas and if I get disconnected while playing, my disc and I get to play the "haha, you can't read me" dance. Yes, this is usually corrected by playing music while starting the game. But not always.

The PC is only limited by your pocketbook. If you can afford all the best stuff and install it, you're fine playing on that platform. But even a most basic computer can run FFXI these days. I got a cheap one at Best Buy (no, not a great idea but I needed a computer for other reasons and I was limited on money) and with just a bit of help from a great LS mate, I was able to make my game run. Heck, even my crappy laptop can (and does!) run FFXI. I always assumed it would blow up if I ever tried.

But you need to know what you're doing. I had no idea how to set it up and while I was assured my computer would run FFXI, it kept having errors. My LS mate put a weird little clock widget on my desktop and boom, it works. I am not a computer expert by any stretch. I lag only in REALLY REALLY congested zones/areas/JP Primetime in those zones (doesn't really happen often, only if I'm running tons of crap on my PC too) and at crystals. I ALWAYS have lag at crystals and maws. But it's a nice balance between PS2 and XBOX.

PS2 will die off and become nothing more than a memory. If you can save up and afford a decent computer, do it. Otherwise, the XBOX has improved greatly in the last few updates. I just prefer PC.

[Ragmar]

I keep seeing people say no NA stores sell PS2 games anymore ... Walmart does and its one of the biggest nationwide retailers so um yeah. I play on both PC and PS2 and IF SE were actually going to give the game an overhaul I would support dropping PS2 support but fact is they aren't. You are flat dreaming if you think FFXI is getting the FFXIV 2.0 treatment lol.

[Insaniac]

So this guy is raging because he tried to play FFXI on a net book...

[Llana_Virren]

I keep seeing people say no NA stores sell PS2 games anymore ... Walmart does and its one of the biggest nationwide retailers so um yeah. I play on both PC and PS2 and IF SE were actually going to give the game an overhaul I would support dropping PS2 support but fact is they aren't. You are flat dreaming if you think FFXI is getting the FFXIV 2.0 treatment lol.

People are saying that you will have a hard time finding a store that is selling new releases for PS2.

[Zumi]

I have no need to back it up with anything, you only need to look at the evidence. It's been said time and time again that JP players play it mostly on PS2, clearly that is true hence the PS2 version of the EP, NA/EU play it mostly on the PC, XBOX 360 then the remaining on PS2/3. Clearly as there is no EP for PS2/3 it has the SMALLEST number of players and NOT deemed cost effective to cater for them.

If you genuinely believe there is enough NA players on the PS2/3 then that is your prerogative, SE clearly don't see it as so thus they are NOT making the EP for PS2/3.



It's NOT laziness, it's smart Business. You have to remember games like the PSOne games are tiny in size, and ridiculously easy to port, almost like just uploading the ISO. PS2 games are not the same.

FFX HD has a big enough player base so therefore they are upgrading (yeah right, barely noticeable) safe in the knowledge it'll make the money back it cost easily. FFXI will NOT.



The problem is, if it was completely redone it'd probably cost more than making a brand new game and really wouldn't get that many new players. FFXIV 2.0 is a massive update, with a lot of Shops looking to market it as a new game, and game reviewers willing to class it as one. It has the potential to sell and get a huge playerbase. FFXI will never achieve that now not unless they made it F2P.


You don't get it they are still supporting PS2, the dat files are all the same between versions, Japan is getting everything. When SoA comes out you they will still be updating PS2 with all the item and gear graphic files even in the US PS2 while get these files. They really aren't spending any more money by making it available for US PS2 if they just do a downloadable version.

They are making a version of it for JP. SE could easily have made it a download on PS2 and not have a retail box version which is what most people want. Nobody is asking them for a retail boxed PS2 version but what we do want is a download to be able to continue playing with PS2.

So basically the only thing the US PS2 version won't have is the new zone files they will get everything else.

[Insaniac]

Obviously they can't for some reason or they would do it. I promise they would gladly take money from EN PS2 players if it made financial sense.

[Camiie]

I would imagine there's simply no production of NA-region PS2 discs anymore. If so, that's probably why.

[Zerich]

I keep seeing people say no NA stores sell PS2 games anymore ... Walmart does and its one of the biggest nationwide retailers so um yeah. I play on both PC and PS2 and IF SE were actually going to give the game an overhaul I would support dropping PS2 support but fact is they aren't. You are flat dreaming if you think FFXI is getting the FFXIV 2.0 treatment lol.

in the bargain bin

[Insaniac]

It's just a cost thing somewhere along the line. There's some process that makes it not cost effective and we will likely never have any clue what it is unless they tell us. People just need to accept that dropping EN PS2 from the expansion is part of what they needed to do to make the it happen at all. If you can't be bothered to spend 1 minimum wage paycheck so the vast majority of the EN community who upgraded 6 years ago can enjoy a full expansion then you're a jerk or really really really poor.

[Aldersyde]

I have no need to back it up with anything, you only need to look at the evidence. I

Stopped reading right there. Thanks for making it clear straight off that it's pointless to have any kind of discussion with you. What f@$*ing arrogance...

[Suteru]

1) They haven't run a PS2 disc in ages and it is probably a nightmare to get them into production in the US. EU never had a PS2 version.

2) The reason you can't see the "sky grid" in the PS2 version is mostly because the graphics are too low-resolution. The PS2's graphics are just too blurry a mess.

[RAIST]

You don't get it they are still supporting PS2, the dat files are all the same between versions, Japan is getting everything. When SoA comes out you they will still be updating PS2 with all the item and gear graphic files even in the US PS2 while get these files. They really aren't spending any more money by making it available for US PS2 if they just do a downloadable version.

They are making a version of it for JP. SE could easily have made it a download on PS2 and not have a retail box version which is what most people want. Nobody is asking them for a retail boxed PS2 version but what we do want is a download to be able to continue playing with PS2.

So basically the only thing the US PS2 version won't have is the new zone files they will get everything else.

Download the expansion to the PS2???!! Are you serious? Have you not taken notice of how much trouble they have with just even 100MB (sometimes less) of patches as it is already? This is going to be NEW AREAS....as in, NEW ASSETS, not rehashed versions of existing areas that are using all the same monster models and such so they can cheat and use the same files for a lot of the content. Look at TAU....the CAB files were past the 800MB mark--that is the two compressed containers, who knows what they are when unpacked---but it states on the box that is wants 2GB of free space.

{Edit:}
Just out of curiosity, I unpacked the CAB files on my laptop.....1.95GB worth of new files on the TAU Windows installation disc.

[Merton9999]

I didn't read much but the OP, and I do agree with some points on specific visuals. In particular, the camera seizure on PC is absolutely horrible, and never happened to me on PS2. The lag in loading character models is a little annoying too. I also miss the PlayOnline yell :)

The problem I have with these and the rest of the points is ultimately they're relatively inconsequential. The few advantages I love about PC are so dramatic that you could add a thousand more little benefits to PS2 and they wouldn't make any difference. Here are the three things that are game breakers to me. I'd quit the game before I'd go back to PS2 if these issues still existed.

1. Freezing on NPCs and cut scenes. I stayed on PS2 longer than I should have because I was lazy and didn't want to go through the setup process. When I couldn't progress through ToAU at all is when I switched. How are people getting through WoG and ToAU missions? Are you not doing them? Using a friend's PC?

2. Macro set delay. My PC switches between macro sets instantaneously. I can even hold it and watch them roll through back to the first one in under a second. PS2 was terrible at this. This made a huge difference on a job like SCH where I'm constantly flying through macro sets and books.

3. Update and Logon. When I was updating both systems, it took my PS2 roughly three times longer to update than my PC. If I tried to update PS2 on update day, I'd have to recover from errors 20+ times before the update would continue. I've never had to do that once on PC. My PC also logs on at least twice as fast as PS2 did.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

The reason you can't see the "sky grid" in the PS2 version is mostly because the graphics are too low-resolution.

The default PC resolution, 640x480 (which I used to take the first screenshot) is the same as the PS2's output. Granted, the PS2 puts out an interlaced image, but the grid is still not visible when being deinterlaced/upconverted by a PS3.

Any difference between 480p on a PC and 480p on a PS3 is a difference in the code itself, not in the inherent nature of the platforms.

[RAIST]

think you're missing the point.....PS2 is likely using lower quality textures to begin with...just like they were having to pare them down for the PS3 version of FFXIV compared to what they originally generated in the initial PC release.

[Lisotte]

Wait... it's coming out on ps2 in Japan? Wasn't that half the point, dropping ps2 so that we could have a real expansion with actual new, non-recycled content? It's going to be WotG and Aby all over again (which were awesome, but not new areas).

[Gilraen]

What is it about 'home market' that's failing here? The user poll they did last year clearly revealed that alot of players in Japan play on the PS2 whereas in the US PC dominates. Who do you think Square is going to cater to more? I already know the answer here, and it's not going to change anytime soon as far as I can see. It's the same old discrimination PSO players got used to a decade ago, myself included.

[Llana_Virren]

Wait... it's coming out on ps2 in Japan? Wasn't that half the point, dropping ps2 so that we could have a real expansion with actual new, non-recycled content? It's going to be WotG and Aby all over again (which were awesome, but not new areas).

No, the point was Economics 101. The player-base assumed PS2 drop was to facilitate the end of the "PS2 limitations" argument.

[bungiefanNA]

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to inquire of they will make the Japanese PS2 disk region-free.

Not possible. PS2 doesn't have a designation for a disc to be region free. It must have a region code on it, and it must match the console's region code for it to boot the disc. Xbox 360 allows multiple region codes on the same disc, and has a region free designation. PS3 simply doesn't bother with region lock on PS3 software, as long as it has a code, but it enforces PS1 and PS2 region locks on physical discs.

[bungiefanNA]

Partly, PC dominates here because the game released about 18 months earlier here on PC than PS2, and partly because SCEA only made and sold the hardware required to run the game for about 9 months (March 2004 - November 2004). In Japan the game launched on PS2 6 months before PC, and the hardware was much more widely available and for a much longer time span (2001-2009 or 2010). There simply aren't as many HDD units in North America, so there's a smaller player base because SCEA created that scarcity.

Meant to edit this into the previous post, whoops.

[Gilraen]

They also offered two versions of the HDD (an internal and an external) in Japan as well as a Lin-station HDD (which turned the PS2 into a pure computer). Again, another example of the home market getting preferential treatment.

[Gingerhurricane]

They also offered two versions of the HDD (an internal and an external) in Japan as well as a Lin-station HDD (which turned the PS2 into a pure computer). Again, another example of the home market getting preferential treatment.

Perhaps there was no market for those items here? Just saying not everything needs to be released and distributed equally. It's like honda making their integra in japan while the acura discontinued the rsx model. There it is a popular car to drive. Here it is a popular car with high school kids, and teenagers who think it'll be fast and sweet to trick out. People in their 20's would rather have a nicer "sports" car than that, such as a VW GTI or something that's more luxury. Would I spend 20k on a rsx that they say is luxury, or would i spend it on something that doesnt feel like youre driving down a dirt road on the highway. This crap needs to stop. I played ps2 for years, the graphics suck. plugging my ps2 into my 1080i 32" samsung hurts my eyes and im not joking.

[Teraniku]

Please understand Teraniku, that given that the expansion is coming out on PS2 in Japan, there will be no increase in performance of the game even though (at the moment) the PS2 expansion isn't coming out in the US.

The PS2 is still going in Japan.

Oh don't get me wrong, I know that Japan is getting the game on PS2 Discs. Since Fat PS2's were manufactured in Japan til at least 2009. I still think SE is making the right move. (By the way I have all 3 versions of the game. So I'd probably get the PS2 version if it was available, just to be a completest )

[Llana_Virren]

They also offered two versions of the HDD (an internal and an external) in Japan as well as a Lin-station HDD (which turned the PS2 into a pure computer). Again, another example of the home market getting preferential treatment.

Do some research on Sony's control over HDDs in the U.S. for a more educated assessment on why SE can make devices for PS2 in Japan but not in the U.S.

[oliveira]

Partly, PC dominates here because the game released about 18 months earlier here on PC than PS2, and partly because SCEA only made and sold the hardware required to run the game for about 9 months (March 2004 - November 2004). In Japan the game launched on PS2 6 months before PC, and the hardware was much more widely available and for a much longer time span (2001-2009 or 2010). There simply aren't as many HDD units in North America, so there's a smaller player base because SCEA created that scarcity.

Meant to edit this into the previous post, whoops.

PS2 regions are set as "flags" just like XBOX360. I was shocked when I learned that.

What you said is true about all discs, but hard drive contents could be made region free if they wished to.
But their policy was DRACONIAN DRM (DNAS) and DRACONIAN market control (regional lockdown).

Dang, SONY... At some point their policies even hurt SquareSoft (before the merge with Enix, there were a serious shortage of harddrives in Japan)... I suppose that helps to explain why they had to take some shortcuts with the PC version (dirty textures, broken models) as they needed to use automated tools to convert the PS2 data to PC and a lot of mistakes these tools did on the data were overlooked...

[bungiefanNA]

They also offered two versions of the HDD (an internal and an external) in Japan as well as a Lin-station HDD (which turned the PS2 into a pure computer). Again, another example of the home market getting preferential treatment.

There were two versions of HDD because there was an extra series of PS2 released in Japan before our launch model series. The model 10000 had no expansion bay, it had a PCMCIA slot for a PC card. The external HDD connected to that card, and wasn't compatible with model 30000 and 50000 systems with the expansion bay. The internal drive plugged into the Network Adapter, which plugged into the DEV9 port at the top of the expansion bay.

Japan had 3 models of PS2 in that series before we got our launch model. They had the 10000, 15000, and 18000, then the 30000 came out globally.