No Timed Pop Notorious Monsters In New Expansion

[svengalis]

Well I know this game is old and started back in 2002 so I will deal with the timed popped NM already in the game. But seriously SE DO NOT add anymore in future editions of this game. If you are, have more then ONE NM. Noone likes paying for a game monthly where they log in and try to do something but only they can't because the ONLY NM that drops what they need is camped by 30 people and you can't get claim on it. All this does is drive people to cancel their subscriptions. Not sure how SE sees standing around waiting for something to pop only to see someone else get it claim after claim as fun gameplay.

Do the developers even play this game? The NM in question is Heqet I am talking about but their are others like Gukumatz etc. Now I know you can FC these mobs to for KI but that is so random and FC for one KI seriously SE? I don't exspect SE to fix this now as they seem to be done with Abyssea fixes I just don't want anymore of this style of content. I want to actually enjoy playing the game I am paying for you know?

[Reiterpallasch]

They could always do both: Have NMs be on a spawn timer (30 mins or so), but with a rare chance at getting an item to pop it as well. Or they could do like Despot and have the NM spawn claimed, ready to eat your face off after you just @#$%ed up 50 of its friends.

But no matter what they do, I don't want to see the system go 100% one way or the other (all timed or all forced).

[RAIST]

Mobs like Heqet are a pain...in perfect agreement there. One item for the big fish can be earned off a forced pop NM, the other is sheer luck on claiming the frog--otherwise you take your chances on finding them in gold chests. Aby-VNM's was another screwup....multiple instances of T1 up in the same area (I've actually popped two T1 pots in Vunkerl by accident), but then only one T2 and T3 on a timed repop is a MAJOR choking point. Then they turn around and give force-pop mobs up to 3 ???'s to pop them from.

Really would be nice to get a little more consistency in the process.

[svengalis]

They could always do both: Have NMs be on a spawn timer (30 mins or so), but with a rare chance at getting an item to pop it as well. Or they could do like Despot and have the NM spawn claimed, ready to eat your face off after you just @#$%ed up 50 of its friends.

But no matter what they do, I don't want to see the system go 100% one way or the other (all timed or all forced).

Not sure what you like about the system to not see it go away how do you find it fun?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Make them all forced spawn. Then, add a quest that cannot be repeated in which you recive a pop item that can be traded.

Oh yeah, don't forget to add what we all love.
MORE PROCS!

[Jackstin]

People dislike spawn items? Wow.

[Dazusu]

More timed HNMs please. The more the merrier.

[Hayward]

And in comes the JP wannabe brigade. Who could have seen that coming?

The best thing that SE could ever do is make any future NM either 1) force spawned with Key Items that are reasonably obtainable through quests or lower-tier NMs or 2) fought in Burning Circle-type instanced events. Of course, that removes any semblance of fake prestige that is treasured by the BG crowd by giving everyone a fair shot at good stuff.

[Natenn]

They better add once a day/week timed hnm, make casuals actualyy have to try and earn stuff, no more oh hey lets go pop this fake HNM that means nothing when its killed a few hundred times so gimps can think their good at this game.

[Natenn]

no instanced NMs, no pop items, ect. Claim it or try again next day or later in the week, Rare NMs > common NMs that get popped 50x a day.

[Smeggles]

Wow I didn't think there was someone more retarded than Habu, but seems Natenn takes the cake.

Timed pops are stupid - in a game that is running out of things to do, I don't want to wait around for a pop just so I can do the things I have left on my checklist.

I want to go and slaughter X mobs to get the first pop item, then pop the small NM that requires red proc to get the KI, then pop my actual target. This is the best system that SE created instead of rubbish timed spawns.

[Phogg]

I can't tell if Natenn is role playing Galka, or is actually that dumb.

Note to weirdos, the fact that you have something and others do not really doesn't say anything about your skill as player in any way shape or form, "claiming" mobs is the most transparent example of that form of dribble thought.

[Reiterpallasch]

People quickly forget that one of the things that has kept this game going for so long are time sinks. The longer it takes to get something the done, the longer you're playing (and paying) to accomplish your goal. This includes NMs. While I don't think things should be as extreme as HNMs, I do believe that you shouldn't be able to just mass kill fodder mobs so you can spam an NM until you get your shiny either. Not every single item should just drop into the hands of every player that wants it. Some items are meant to be at least somewhat rare.

Easy to complete content isn't good content. The faster you complete it, the faster you get bored, and the faster you quit/wait for new content that you can just steamroll to get back to waiting for something new.


Not sure what you like about the system to not see it go away how do you find it fun?
Most of this I answered in the rest of my post, but I'll also add that it adds competition, which leads to a bit more of a sense of accomplishment when you finally get the item/items you're working towards. I'd find having to camp an NM for a reasonable amount of time far more fun than slaughtering EP mobs to get a pop to camp a set of ???.

[Camiie]

People quickly forget that one of the things that has kept this game going for so long are time sinks.

There's more than one way to skin a Behemoth.



The longer it takes to get something the done, the longer you're playing (and paying) to accomplish your goal. This includes NMs. While I don't think things should be as extreme as HNMs, I do believe that you shouldn't be able to just mass kill fodder mobs so you can spam an NM until you get your shiny either. Not every single item should just drop into the hands of every player that wants it. Some items are meant to be at least somewhat rare.

But it's OK to be able to waltz into Dragon's Aery, claim Fafnir, and go 1/1 on a Ridill? Who spent more time earning their item 1/1 Ridill Guy or 1/300 Pulse Armor Guy?



Easy to complete content isn't good content. The faster you complete it, the faster you get bored, and the faster you quit/wait for new content that you can just steamroll to get back to waiting for something new.

It's not good for lazy game companies and developers no. That's who the HNM style of content is really created for. The fact that it helps stroke the egos of a vocal minority of players is just icing on the cake.



Most of this I answered in the rest of my post, but I'll also add that it adds competition, which leads to a bit more of a sense of accomplishment when you finally get the item/items you're working towards. I'd find having to camp an NM for a reasonable amount of time far more fun than slaughtering EP mobs to get a pop to camp a set of ???.

Most of us prefer a reasonable PvE challenge as opposed to a pseudo PvP war where the primary weapon is a third-party claim bot. Merton9999 is absolutely right when he calls the competitive aspect of endgame a bait and switch on SE's part. Yes there is cooperation within an LS, but that's superseded by the competition between them. That's not the game I signed up to play.

[Eijii]

Don't listen to the OP... bring back 12hr+ NMs! I would like that old 2004 HNM feel to the game... the competition and the drama between LSs..... that's what made endgame so awesome... now days everyone has same gear and no particular group stands out... at all...

[Dohati]

Make them all forced spawn. Then, add a quest that cannot be repeated in which you recive a pop item that can be traded.

Oh yeah, don't forget to add what we all love.
MORE PROCS!

for the love of god... please, no more proc systems... PLEASE. having to proc everything instead of just needed to be skillful in just getting the mob to die period gets annoying sometimes... i'm ok with abyssea and voidwatch, but i really don't want to have everything worthwhile in the game be like that. i'm sure other jobs have this issue, but, like, on blue mage, you basically can't do your job whatsoever because all the spells you have set are crappy and only for procs, or you can just reset them when you get a reading, but then you're only useful to you get the reading, then you have to sit out for 60sec :/
also, unrepeatable quest item for pop items is dumb. that leaves 2 options for players: do the nm so many times and then never be able to do it again -or- keep making new mules over and over again so you can do the crap out of that quest, boggart the spawn point, and rake in the profits. either way is annoying.

[Kojo]

Mobs like Heqet are a pain...in perfect agreement there. One item for the big fish can be earned off a forced pop NM, the other is sheer luck on claiming the frog--otherwise you take your chances on finding them in gold chests. Aby-VNM's was another screwup....multiple instances of T1 up in the same area (I've actually popped two T1 pots in Vunkerl by accident), but then only one T2 and T3 on a timed repop is a MAJOR choking point. Then they turn around and give force-pop mobs up to 3 ???'s to pop them from.

Really would be nice to get a little more consistency in the process.

Heqet and Gukumatz need to be turned into item pop NMs. Friend are currently working on Masamune and Kannagi and both have caused drama, One can't get Gukumatz through certain hours of the day due to people constantly outclaiming him, as for Heqet, we've had people calling us names because they wanted "the next Heqet" and didn't get it. So I can kinda see things from both sides on this one; I think item pop would make certain NMs much better to deal with.

Oh, and Megamaw Mikey, PLEASE make him item spawn. >.>

[Oscar71]

Heqet and Gukumatz need to be turned into item pop NMs. Friend are currently working on Masamune and Kannagi and both have caused drama, One can't get Gukumatz through certain hours of the day due to people constantly outclaiming him, as for Heqet, we've had people calling us names because they wanted "the next Heqet" and didn't get it. So I can kinda see things from both sides on this one; I think item pop would make certain NMs much better to deal with.

Oh, and Megamaw Mikey, PLEASE make him item spawn. >.>

Fun Fact: You can get both K.I.'s from gold chests!

[Kojo]

Fun Fact: You can get both K.I.'s from gold chests!

You can also get Relics from Moogle Bonanza.

[Habu]

All I'm reading is wha wha I can't claim. Suckless or cleave your KIs

[Kojo]

All I'm reading is wha wha I can't claim. Suckless or cleave your KIs

Nice one. You must've worked for days to come up with that.

[Habu]

Nah it came to me quicker than a casual crying bot

[Tsukino_Kaji]

for the love of god... please, no more proc systems... PLEASE. having to proc everything instead of just needed to be skillful in just getting the mob to die period gets annoying sometimes... i'm ok with abyssea and voidwatch, but i really don't want to have everything worthwhile in the game be like that.No, you need the procs or the drop rate will be less then 1%. We don't need more month long spawn timers that you need 32 people to kill, with .05% drops on 80mil gil items.

[RAIST]

Fun Fact: You can get both K.I.'s from gold chests!

Yeah, along with a ton of other crap....
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Abyssea_-_Vunkerl#Fishing

I know it says fishing, but it's the closest placeholder to their list for gold chests over there. Scan the list real quick. It's only a PARTIAL list, and is already over 40 items. Note that the KI's tracked for popping NMs so far are hovering around the 1% mark. Hence, why I stated this in the post Kojo referenced (added bold text for emphasis):


One item for the big fish can be earned off a forced pop NM, the other is sheer luck on claiming the frog--otherwise you take your chances on finding them in gold chests.

[Natenn]

I loved old HNM, it was frustrating at times but when we did claim it was worth it. No one could give us a "run for our money' so to say when it came to DI/SW bc they couldnt have their alliance all on top of NM 2s after it popped. The only reasons pplcry is because A: Flat out jealous they sucked so bad at claiming, B: much more easy to call ppl cheaters then admit you just failed, C: Hates to lose, Or D: Wants everything handed to them. I miss back in the day when i was proud to strut around with Tia/Vrtra/Khim/Cerb/Lambton/DI(somewhat)/HQ King titles and ppl would check me and say grats or start asking me questions about my LS. Now that feeling is unobtainable in this current XI, Even my relics i busted my rear for to get are a joke to get. I understand the system was hard for ppl w/o ample time to spend on it and that yes it was unfair to the majority but i do have the time to spend on it and there still is a# of ppl who enjoyed the competitive atmosphere/drama, just because you personally didn't approve it why should it be taken away completely? If they do add HNM i'll be happy but i'm not dumb enough to believe they'll add pops like KB/Aspid?Nid where thepop area is so small you can cram 100 bots into it, they would make them along the lines of di/sw, whole zone/multi zone pops. I just want some type of prestige element back in the game.

[Kojo]

No, you need the procs or the drop rate will be less then 1%. We don't need more month long spawn timers that you need 32 people to kill, with .05% drops on 80mil gil items.

Call me crazy, but I actually like the Proc system in Abyssea.

[Oscar71]

Call me crazy, but I actually like the Proc system in Abyssea.

Dude, me too! They should just add the proc system to everything!

[Smeggles]

I don't have an opinion either way on the proc system - it works for what it does and adds a slight challenge before the actual kill (not much)

I think the NM pop system is the best. Having to claim timed spawns to pop KI mobs is stupid - getting friends together to go and do XXX NM be it a zone boss, a +2 boss or an emp boss and then having 40 other people sitting around the 15min spawn NM is infuriating and a waste of everyones time.

[Jackstin]

Dude, me too! They should just add the proc system to everything!

I think I prefer the proc system in Dynamis. I dunno...it's satisfying getting provs with the right spell, and with the right jobs you can proc quickly. But in Dyna pretty much any job can assist in proccing and that to me, is better.

But yeah I agree, adding a form of proccing to the whole game would be a great idea.

[Earwig]

It is rather stupid that the real challenge is claiming NMs. Fighting them should be the challenge.

[Smeggles]

It is rather stupid that the real challenge is claiming NMs. Fighting them should be the challenge.

I tried to "like" your post 100 times, but it only let me do it once =(

[Habu]

You should show that much enthusiasm when trying to claim a mob, maybe you would claim a lot more.

[Smeggles]

You should show that much enthusiasm when trying to claim a mob, maybe you would claim a lot more.

And leave 39 other people standing around wasting time! Yes I hate people so much that me getting what I want is all that matters. You are a moron.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I think I prefer the proc system in Dynamis. I dunno...I'd rather have procs that, you know, work when you use them.

[Merton9999]

I'm normally not the grammar police but the trend with these "bring back world spawn" posts across threads makes me think Habu has taken up that political activist's tactic of scrounging the ghetto to round up surprise "voters" amongst the homeless.

I don't care about people beating me to claims, and have proven my own ability to do it many times. A little competition makes things exciting. You simply don't charge people to do nothing for hours and play for a few minutes. Yes it was a classic MMO trick that worked for a while but people become less and less tolerant of dupes.

When I look at Voidwatch, for example, at least I can get cruor and limit points from the time sink while I'm not getting the items I want. SE has learned something and created slightly more evolved time sinks. I understand that my MMO subscription will always involve stringing me along with random number generators and the like, but at least let me be actively engaged and multi-task.

[Anapingofness]

Well I know this game is old and started back in 2002 so I will deal with the timed popped NM already in the game. But seriously SE DO NOT add anymore in future editions of this game. If you are, have more then ONE NM. Noone likes paying for a game monthly where they log in and try to do something but only they can't because the ONLY NM that drops what they need is camped by 30 people and you can't get claim on it. All this does is drive people to cancel their subscriptions. Not sure how SE sees standing around waiting for something to pop only to see someone else get it claim after claim as fun gameplay.

Do the developers even play this game? The NM in question is Heqet I am talking about but their are others like Gukumatz etc. Now I know you can FC these mobs to for KI but that is so random and FC for one KI seriously SE? I don't exspect SE to fix this now as they seem to be done with Abyssea fixes I just don't want anymore of this style of content. I want to actually enjoy playing the game I am paying for you know?

I know what you mean. I was never a fan of the timed pop NM's since they're usually over camped. To add insult to injury is when they're really long pop timers.

Personally, I'd be ok with timed NM's if they had a short repop timer like the majority of the Abyssea mobs and if they had multiple mobs that dropped the same item?

Tbh, I like KI pop items where there are multiple ??? marks to trade to so there is less competition and sniping. Why KI's? it's obvious, less inventory taken up. XD

[Iakothm]

... whats the difference between timed or popped nms? When popping you still have to fight over it. I had issues because this group that was using hacks decided they would use ASE and keep us from getting the nm we had been there for a bit farming.

[Camiie]

... whats the difference between timed or popped nms? When popping you still have to fight over it. I had issues because this group that was using hacks decided they would use ASE and keep us from getting the nm we had been there for a bit farming.

I see people willing to take turns over popped mobs. I never saw that with timed spawns. Your experience is not unheard of with popped mobs, but it's not the norm.

[Dragoy]

... whats the difference between timed or popped nms? When popping you still have to fight over it. I had issues because this group that was using hacks decided they would use ASE and keep us from getting the nm we had been there for a bit farming.I see people willing to take turns over popped mobs. I never saw that with timed spawns. Your experience is not unheard of with popped mobs, but it's not the norm.

Indeed. I recently created a level 85 Kannagi, and comparing the trial with Briareus to the one with Sobek is borderline hilarious! No matter what time I went to the gigas' spots (mostly Europe day-time/evening though), if there were people, I'd wait for them to leave and I'd go next. If I was there when others arrived, they'd wait, and/or ask how many more I need (1-3). Not even once did someone try and trade in an item 'over me'.

Moving to Misareaux, which I much dreaded, it's pretty much impossible to take turns on Gugumatz, and some people would 'barge in' and trade/try to trade the trigger in faster for the others. Thankfully, none of these places are as crowded as they used to be. I'd never done it if it was because it's just not fun that way. The 3 spawns for Sobek and co. is also a massive helper.

There were nice people there as well of course. Some people go as far as to claim the Gugumatz over not-so-nice players, and give it to me. Granted, I may have helped them when I saw their battle with Sobek go awry. Many a time I have cured them, and/or held the monster until they can finish it off (several different parties, several different occasions). I'm sure most would have just 'stolen' the monster, but I guess I'm just not an arse enough to do that, and hey, there is some proof in this very post that sometimes doing nice things to others pays back (not that it would be the reason for me to act so).

Eye for an eye, and the whole world will be blind.

For groups of 1 to 4 with such monsters it's usually no problem to wait for them to finish, but for larger groups I'd obviously prefer taking turns or so, as I generally play in a group of 3. 'Cleaving' for these items shouldn't be the solution. It's a nice addition, of course, but I try to do that only if I am after something else as well, like getting cruor and experience points for a friend or few.

I really don't see why they should not change Gugumatz, Heqet, and friends to spawn via the use of a trigger item.

[Camiie]

I really don't see why they should not change Gugumatz, Heqet, and friends to spawn via the use of a trigger item.

Exactly. It's like the mobs surrounding them don't even serve any purpose other than to get in the way. While the frogs are pretty weak enemies to have to fight for a pop item, piestes are always annoying buggers to have to deal with. There would still be the delay of having to wait behind people popping mobs as with Sirrush, Minax Bugard, and Cep-Kamuy. It's not like there would be zero time sink involved, it'd just be less stupid.

[Habu]

They serve the purpose of killing noobs who claim Guko/Heqet/we and can't handle a few adds.

[Saelae]

Just stop making content that only one group can do at a time, all it does is create congestion and annoys players. People want to be able to actually play the game, not watch someone else play. Bots aside, claiming is about 90% luck and maybe 10% skill. As long as you can pay attention and react quickly, you've gone as far as 'skill' can take you. After that, it's a matter of whether the mob decides to spawn closer to you than the competition (sometimes it's even that way from the start if the NM has a particularly wide spawning range)

At any rate, if bad players are killing NM's and getting gear, it's not because the NM's are forced spawns or are accessible. It's because the fights themselves are too easy.

[Habu]

Game needs competition not campout fire circle singing kumbaya

[Saelae]

No it doesn't, at least not for battle related content.

[svengalis]

Someone just made a thread a few days ago about a friend quiting after only 2 months because he didn't like camping the timed NM. Timed pips probably lead to more people canceling their subscriptions then those keeping them. I would like to farm every single empyrean there is but I think gun will be my last one because I don't like dealing with the timed pops that are over camped. Would love to make ochain, the sword and bard harp but I probably wont.
People quickly forget that one of the things that has kept this game going for so long are time sinks. The longer it takes to get something the done, the longer you're playing (and paying) to accomplish your goal. This includes NMs. While I don't think things should be as extreme as HNMs, I do believe that you shouldn't be able to just mass kill fodder mobs so you can spam an NM until you get your shiny either. Not every single item should just drop into the hands of every player that wants it. Some items are meant to be at least somewhat rare.

Easy to complete content isn't good content. The faster you complete it, the faster you get bored, and the faster you quit/wait for new content that you can just steamroll to get back to waiting for something new.


Most of this I answered in the rest of my post, but I'll also add that it adds competition, which leads to a bit more of a sense of accomplishment when you finally get the item/items you're working towards. I'd find having to camp an NM for a reasonable amount of time far more fun than slaughtering EP mobs to get a pop to camp a set of ???.

[Habu]

Someone just made a thread a few days ago about a friend quiting after only 2 months because he didn't like camping the timed NM. Timed pips probably lead to more people canceling their subscriptions then those keeping them..

Good riddance.

[Demon6324236]

Game needs competition not campout fire circle singing kumbaya

You want competition, find it with the mobs you fight, thats where it should be. I should not have to ruin everyone elses day to get my things I want done. I see 2 types of competition, friendly, and professional.

Friendly is good, it can be a good fun type of competition because you can be pushed to strive above your friends without feeling the annoyance and anger that you get when you fall short at times.

Professional should not exist in this game, for the fact it is just that, a game. Professional is normally seen more in jobs or sports, because they are much more aggressive forms of competition, when you fall short of something, you feel very bad at times because you feel like you are getting no where, and can even become depressed. However when you succeed, you feel much more accomplishment, this is good, and bad, because it often leads to gloating to the people of whom you have already subjected to the anger & sadness that losing already brings them.

We need friendly competition, play with friends, play to be better, don't play to gloat, or think your elite. This is a game, remember that, and have fun rather than trying to think that just because your claiming a NM faster than someone, that it should be fun. When someone out claims you do you enjoy it? Or do you feel like the last few hours of your life was a simple waste of time?

[Demon6324236]

Good riddance.

Same should be said to you and your outdated thinking of how a game should work when you want to subject everyone to unfun, annoying, boring, time sinks.

[saevel]

You guys know Habu / Nan are just trolling you and laughing a the responses with their friends. Put them on your ignore list and go about your business.

As for "procs" they were introduced to provide an element of strategy / skill to a fight. Otherwise all fights would resemble SAM/WAR/DRK/MNK zerging with PD / Embrava, aka Legion / ADL. This requires absolutely no skill, nothing in this game requires anything resembling "skill", mostly due to SE having a case of Evil Game Master.

Next thing people are going to demand no procs so that you can display your "skill" while "tanking" a NM and killing it slowly over the course of 60 min. How about we kite it in circles and slowly whittle away at it with RNG's and BLMs. That's "skill" for ya...

[cidbahamut]

Game needs competition not campout fire circle singing kumbaya

I think you might just be playing the wrong game dude.

[Habu]

Oh good point, I would really support having someone like that in my corner to defend why time pops are dumb.

[svengalis]

I also have no problem with them putting a time limit on how often I can kill a certain NM. I just like to see progress when I log on.

[Yarly]

As long as they include the proc system that let's everyone have a chance at being included, I'll be happy!^_^

I would of prefer a system like the current behemoth/fafnir/adamantoise system. It would be great if we have to use some sort of beastman/kindred seal or (high) kindred crest BCNM that has a rare chance to drop the pop item for a specific monster in the new expansion. Then that monster should have a fairly low chance of dropping it's big item for obvious reasons otherwise we wont have balance in the game.

I think it should only request one person to get the pop item from the various bcnm but then anyone can join as long as they're in the alliance. You'd need to introduce the tried and true proc system that everyone loves to keep promoting heavy teamwork between players instead of just mindless zerging. This game is all about the teamwork and I love that feeling of satisfaction when I hit those procs and contribute to the cause of the fight. At the end, every one should get their own personal treasure chest like voidwatch. I think that way of distributing loot is ideal.

[Demon6324236]

At the end, every one should get their own personal treasure chest like voidwatch. I think that way of distributing loot is ideal.

So long as every single item can be traded, yes, sounds good. If things are R/EX I better be able to send my shit to a friends chest if I so choose, because if I have it, and they want it, then I get it, I get a lil mad at bad design...

[Natenn]

Proc system needs to stay where it is, ppl need to learn teamwork, how to play their jobs, and just overall not sucking. Stop crutching on weakness procing, fix the enmity system and add HNM that take 30m for skilled LSs to do. NO MORE CONTENT NOOBS CAN LEAN ON PROCS/ATMA.

[Demon6324236]

Proc system needs to stay where it is, ppl need to learn teamwork, how to play their jobs, and just overall not sucking. Stop crutching on weakness procing, fix the enmity system and add HNM that take 30m for skilled LSs to do. NO MORE CONTENT NOOBS CAN LEAN ON PROCS/ATMA.

I agree with what you say till you call people noobs, way you use it you think your elite, which means 99% chance you are a douche.

[Nala]

I still don't get the whole concept of skill and endgame yet to come, as it stands we have a very broke enmity system still meaning DD's will always be tanking and the only strat that will prevail until otherwise addressed is zerging.

Perhaps i'm crazy? or am i right? habu's group need not reply.

[Habu]

I was going to say you're right but I was told I need not reply.

[Babekeke]

Timed spawns are fine, as long as they're not OMGSTUPIDLYLONGRESPAWN. The longest a resapwn should ever be is 8 hours for a HQ NM, so that it should have 1 pop per day during JP, EU and NA times. NQ NM placeholders should be ~every hour.

[Demon6324236]

I still don't get the whole concept of skill and endgame yet to come, as it stands we have a very broke enmity system still meaning DD's will always be tanking and the only strat that will prevail until otherwise addressed is zerging.

Perhaps i'm crazy? or am i right? habu's group need not reply.

Because we have no ability to right now, as it stands everything is to strong to fight traditionaly(VW), or to restricting(NNI) as to make it imposible. Enmity is screwed, but I think that was obvious, not to mention we have been introduced to the biggest AoE spam of mobs ever which would mean if a tank could tank it would just mean everyone else gets hurt a lil less.

[Modoru]

Timed NMs?

AAAARGUUUUUUUUUUUS.

Seriously, weeks of camping him, maybe popped about 3 times, and I got him twice, and it never dropped. I lost a lot of sleep trying to get that damn drop. To this day, I've never owned a PCC.

[Meyi]

Game needs competition not campout fire circle singing kumbaya

Which is what we have to do while we wait for other parties to kill the time spawned NM we need to continue our objective of the day. We have to camp out and watch them kill it and then sing kumbaya to sooth our inner rage.

[Winrie]

Only thing I really have to say is:

If you casuals can have what you wish no questions asked, why is it so wrong of us to get something we want as well.

And secondly, you don't like timed spawned NMs amazing, we get it, but I have to ask who in the blue f**k said you had to participate in it? If you don't like it don't do it, easy complex anyone can understand.

And we get crap for posting bringing back timed spawn NM posts yet I don't see why it's wrong for us to defend our point against posts like this in return, it's not only your game, and a lot of you who do complain, not all, either have no clue what you're talking bout, I.e. Heard from a friend or whomever, read old forum crap on hnm, or you were those guys who just couldn't claim or kill anything. All that petty crap aside point is, game should appease more than casuals, content shouldn't be so narrow minded, and no ones putting guns to your heads saying camp this. Quit rage posting crying about having to do it, you're not obligated.

[zataz]

i personally like timed spawns. should every nm be timed no. should some yes. >.> they need to make more 8-16 hour spawns. its not like they wont have something for u to do to get gear from. so why take timed spawns from those that enjoy it.

[Camiie]

Only thing I really have to say is:

If you casuals can have what you wish no questions asked, why is it so wrong of us to get something we want as well.

Pssst. Over here. Hey, buddy, I got some info for ya... Not everyone who hates timed spawn NMs is a casual.
Why am I against it being reintroduced? It makes the game look bad. Even if I don't participate, stupid content makes the game look stupid. The more archaic, outdated, and/or poorly designed content they introduce the worse FFXI looks, and we have far too much of that already.

Try imagining explaining the old HNM scene to friends who are skeptical or on the fence about FFXI. I guarantee that such friends won't be entering Vana'diel after hearing an honest description of how it works.



And secondly, you don't like timed spawned NMs amazing, we get it, but I have to ask who in the blue f**k said you had to participate in it? If you don't like it don't do it, easy complex anyone can understand.


I have to "participate" in it by paying for its production. Sorry if I'd rather see them produce things I'd actually like to do instead.


And we get crap for posting bringing back timed spawn NM posts yet I don't see why it's wrong for us to defend our point against posts like this in return, it's not only your game, and a lot of you who do complain, not all, either have no clue what you're talking bout, I.e. Heard from a friend or whomever, read old forum crap on hnm, or you were those guys who just couldn't claim or kill anything. All that petty crap aside point is, game should appease more than casuals, content shouldn't be so narrow minded, and no ones putting guns to your heads saying camp this. Quit rage posting crying about having to do it, you're not obligated.


We get crap for posting we don't want it anymore. It's not wrong for us to defend our point either. It's not only your game. I DO have a clue about exactly what HNMs involved. I did it day in and day out for years. I have more than enough experience with it and every right to tell my fellow players how horrible it was and every right to tell SE not to produce stuff like it anymore.

The game should appease more than casuals? In the post-Abyssea era it's not appeasing casuals at all. It's all you guys right now, so I kind of wonder what you're so upset about. There's plenty of rare hard-to-get gear and even an event that effectively promotes cheating for it (NEO Nyzul). The only difference is you don't get to make someone else miserable to get what you want, and if you enjoy making other people miserable then please seek help now.

[Demon6324236]

Only thing I really have to say is:

If you casuals can have what you wish no questions asked, why is it so wrong of us to get something we want as well.

And secondly, you don't like timed spawned NMs amazing, we get it, but I have to ask who in the blue f**k said you had to participate in it? If you don't like it don't do it, easy complex anyone can understand.

And we get crap for posting bringing back timed spawn NM posts yet I don't see why it's wrong for us to defend our point against posts like this in return, it's not only your game, and a lot of you who do complain, not all, either have no clue what you're talking bout, I.e. Heard from a friend or whomever, read old forum crap on hnm, or you were those guys who just couldn't claim or kill anything. All that petty crap aside point is, game should appease more than casuals, content shouldn't be so narrow minded, and no ones putting guns to your heads saying camp this. Quit rage posting crying about having to do it, you're not obligated.

Ill make you a deal, you can have your time spawns & HNMs, when I can obtain the gear they drop with a slightly lower drop rates and the same people, but with a pop item that is decently ok to obtain. By this I mean, the pop does not drop off of the time NM, does not get restricted by dropping from another time NM, and does not drop from something with a small rate but is limiting such as BCNMs. This way it is purely for your enjoyment if you want it, and yet people who don't want to deal with the BS that is time spawns do not have to, but suffer a slightly smaller drop rate.

Note:To specify what I mean by slightly, I mean if something has a 30% drop rate, it would be something like 20%, not 1% or 5%. This means while there is an advantage to time spawns, it is not a huge advantage, and is mainly only for the enjoyment of those who wish this content type.

[Winrie]

You're referring to voidwatch and legion appeasing us, I'll jus note right here that voidwatch is pick up group friendly at an obnoxious level, even it with 18 retarded monkeys who understand proc can win, that's not appealing challenge wise(voidclusters have made this much much worse) nor is the gear outstanding on a rarity level as an ebody back when or dalmatica(iirc ppl were asking for it more so for rare gear that was up there like back when, not every Joe on the block has your gear) and legion is a clusterf**k that barely anyone touches at all, I don't know about other servers but on mine it doesn't exist. So I might add how is the game appealing to us right now? FYI I didn't post for a shitting contest, I stated facts, and btw hnm doesn't make the game look bad, easy content that is cleared way too quickly, a company that can't pump content out fast enough to keep up with content that is cleared too quickly, no challenge at all at 99, no point to having a LS in an mmorpg that is focused on team play, because everything is soloable or dual box able, no diversity in playerbase, looks bad. As someone said earlier, easy mode makes ppl finish and get bored quickly while time sinks and vets who participate in them ect are the ppl who ultimately hold an mmorpg together, argue it, I don't really give a damn.

I don't care if drops are split between content, so casuals have a shot, Odin shared hnm drops before anything, most QQrs don't understand that but the best bodies dropped off him, and every other bit of non hnm content dropped very good gear, so idk why so much bitching, everyone should win ina video game, some of us like to compete to win however, and more than one option for obtaining gear is always better than one and I support that, before you scream masochistic greedy whatever the hell y'all call old timers who want a piece of their game back.

[Demon6324236]

nor is the gear outstanding on a rarity level as an ebody back when or dalmatica(iirc ppl were asking for it more so for rare gear that was up there like back when, not every Joe on the block has your gear)

This is what Im against, same as I said to earlier. People being limiting on gear leads to gloating, annoyance, frustration, insults(being called a gimp loser for instance) and much more, this is bad for the community, and bad overall. Again, its a game, games should be a way for entertainment, nothing of what was mentioned in the list of what limited gear causes. It may sound nice to have it that way, but people abuse it by insulting people who are without this gear because they are "beneath them" which is bad.

[Dragoy]

Timed NMs?

AAAARGUUUUUUUUUUUS.

Seriously, weeks of camping him, maybe popped about 3 times, and I got him twice, and it never dropped. I lost a lot of sleep trying to get that damn drop. To this day, I've never owned a PCC.

I actually got that some time ago from Nyzul Isle Investigation. °~°

It's also the first, and only 'non-junk' item I have gotten from any assault, and I've done them quite a lot (every assault mission at least once, and lots of Nyzul). I still don't quite believe it, to be honest.

What we need more is, monsters that de-spawn even if not defeated successfully after being aggravated, and they will very rarely 'drop' an item that you need at least 3 high level crafts to make into the 'real' item, and then use highly convoluted evoliths to make them better. With of course at least 3-7 days of re-spawn timer.

No, just no...

I never really understood how it is balanced to have low low drop-rates. Think about the Defending Ring. It has been in the game since what, 2006? And there are 705 of them (obviously some accounts with it are likely to be inactive, and due to the spawn behaviour, not too many King Behemoths were/are slain). But still, it will never be balanced because other people may work on it for a small eternity with no results to show for it, while others don't need to, because of luck.

One simply cannot balance luck!

[Camiie]

You're referring to voidwatch and legion appeasing us, I'll jus note right here that voidwatch is pick up group friendly at an obnoxious level, even it with 18 retarded monkeys who understand proc can win, that's not appealing challenge wise(voidclusters have made this much much worse) nor is the gear outstanding on a rarity level as an ebody back when or dalmatica(iirc ppl were asking for it more so for rare gear that was up there like back when, not every Joe on the block has your gear) and legion is a clusterf**k that barely anyone touches at all, I don't know about other servers but on mine it doesn't exist. So I might add how is the game appealing to us right now?


Hard content. Rare gear not just anyone can obtain. Isn't that what hardcore players want? It's always what I see requested.



FYI I didn't post for a shitting contest, I stated facts,

Opinions. You stated opinions.


and btw hnm doesn't make the game look bad, easy content that is cleared way too quickly, a company that can't pump content out fast enough to keep up with content that is cleared too quickly, no challenge at all at 99, no point to having a LS in an mmorpg that is focused on team play, because everything is soloable or dual box able, no diversity in playerbase, looks bad.


It will get you 10-12 million subscribers, which is more than SE could ever dream of. That doesn't look so bad to me.



As someone said earlier, easy mode makes ppl finish and get bored quickly while time sinks and vets who participate in them ect are the ppl who ultimately hold an mmorpg together, argue it, I don't really give a damn.


And hardmode, random, competitive nonsense makes people frustrated and quit sooner than they normally would... even the hardcore vets.


I don't care if drops are split between content, so casuals have a shot, Odin shared hnm drops before anything, most QQrs don't understand that but the best bodies dropped off him, and every other bit of non hnm content dropped very good gear, so idk why so much bitching, everyone should win ina video game, some of us like to compete to win however, and more than one option for obtaining gear is always better than one and I support that, before you scream masochistic greedy whatever the hell y'all call old timers who want a piece of their game back.

Odin was harder than Kings were so I'd hardly call him casual content. The good part was that a group could participate in Einherjar on its own schedule rather than having to base their lives around some stupid spawn window. It wasn't easier, and it wasn't casual. It just didn't require people to walk all over each other and cheat2win to get loot.


Ill make you a deal, you can have your time spawns & HNMs, when I can obtain the gear they drop with a slightly lower drop rates and the same people, but with a pop item that is decently ok to obtain.

Disagreed. IF SE went this route then the drop rates should be equal. If it's truly just the competition people are after they shouldn't have an issue with it.

[Demon6324236]

True, I only said it because if drops are the same, just another reason for people to complain.

[Flyinghippress]

I love it when NM's are on a nice short timer... Hell even a 24hr timer would be acceptable as long as there was a world announcement of when it was killed.

What infuriates me are lottery pops! Lottery pops are awful... nothing like running around for hours upon hours killing monsters hoping the NM pops only to have it pop and not drop your item (Looking at you Leaping Lizzy). Now repeat this process several times until it finally drops.

At least with timed pops you can get up, go out for a walk, take a shower, come back and be ready for next pop.

[Winrie]

To each their own viewpoint/opinion cam, I don't agree with you completely but I see what you're trying to say. However I'm curious who you did Odin with because at 75 it was cakewalk. My point was there was more than one option to get great gear outside hnm, even if flawed, this cannot be denied, as I said I would have 0 problem with more than one event type granting the same gear or even equivalents that are just as good, everyone is happy then. A form of nm points system would be nice though, guaranteed gear with x kills/points. Not this easy mode stupid pulse cell voidwatch crap

[Demon6324236]

A form of nm points system would be nice though, guaranteed gear with x kills/points. Not this easy mode stupid pulse cell voidwatch crap

Agreed, still would love to see my idea put in or responded to.


1 ticket for a kill.

1/4th the tickets for any ticket buyable item that is R/EX that is relinquished or traded back to the Planar Rift of which said NM may be spawned from.



Example:Kaggen

Noteable Drops
-Mekira Meikogai
-Phasmida Belt
-Kaggen's Cuticle
-Mantis Eye
-Heavy Metal

Ticket Buy List
-Mekira Meikogai = 100 Tickets
-Phasmida Belt = 75 Tickets
-Kaggen's Cuticle = 40 Tickets
-Mantis Eye = 25 Tickets
-Heavy Metal = 10 Tickets
-Crystal Petrifact = 5 Tickets

Trade List
-Mekira Meikogai = 25 Tickets
-Phasmida Belt = 20 Tickets
-Mantis Eye = 8 Tickets

[Dragoy]

What infuriates me are lottery pops! Lottery pops are awful...

Definitely one of the worst ideas ever.

Well, it could work but there should be limits to it, like, going for 8-11 hours for one is utterly ridonkulous in my fair opinion...

Progression being the key in all this as well. There should be something to show for our work especially when being unlucky. Lottery isn't exactly fun, it's just something we do while hoping for the best with “can't win if I don't play” in mind. >.<

[Habu]

FFXI:
http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4fe4532189118b58f700158d.jpg

[Camiie]

FFXI:
http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4fe4532189118b58f700158d.jpg

Those aliens started out as incredible jerks so I guess you do have a point with the first pic.

[Demon6324236]

FFXI:
http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4fe4532189118b58f700158d.jpg

You know why this matters nothing? Because I am fairly sure you were an asshole when gear gave you that right and power, now you are the same as everyone and hate having lost it. So you want to come here and tell everyone how you want your things to be special so when people don't have it you can gloat and feel mighty. Not much reason to have separate gear between people, yet you love the idea so much, so this is what I assume you are. As such I will give you the same thing I am given all the time as a response, quit and play something else if you don't like it.

[DaBackpack]

If ANYBODY can provide a reasonable explanation as to how claiming an HNM equates to "skill" (or even mastery of the game's mechanics) then I will personally change to your server and give you 5 million gil and a pat on the back.

But that's not happening, because that's simply not how it works.

Most of the time I hear people using this as the only argument to justify the existence of HNMs, it's accompanied by vigorous e-peen masturbation and is followed by a shameless circlejerk hoo-hah.

That's not to say that there aren't merits of the HNM system. There are... but the "it's a true test of skill" argument is a load of phooey. A two-fingered monkey can take visual cues and push a button before 40 other people. It's mostly about luck and diligence and the rest is about how much fast-cast or whatever you have on to nab the mob.

I personally hate lottery-spawns too. I wish they would just make more than one monster a placeholder, so you can kill several mobs and not have to be 10 minute waiting periods.

Edit: Wow that sounded way more aggressive than I intended. Not trying to offend anybody.
Also - 'skill at claiming HNMs' is not 'skill' at the game so don't try it~

[saevel]

Yeah right now, assuming PLD (NIN isn't even a serious tank anymore) obtained an ability that ensured they had 100% enmity for the entire fight, they still couldn't "tank". There are so many aoe's that all your melee would be dead and you'd be restricted to Kirin era tactics. BLM's and RNG / COR's would be the order of the day. Eventually the SAM's would remember they have Apex Arrow and longbows, so a bunch of AA SAM/WAR's standing next to the RNG's getting the same buffs. It becomes a fight involving two PLD's standing near the NM with a legion of DD's in the distance killing it slowly with ranged attacks.

SE really needs to stop the Killer Game Master (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillerGameMaster) mentality.

Every NM is equipped with deadly aoe killer moves (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RocksFallEveryoneDies).

They also follow a Zero Sum Game, Them vs US. This is known as the Amber Law
http://web.archive.org/web/20080212091754/http://atrocities.primaryerror.net/rpgcliches.html

Gamemasters and players can be fully expected to try and screw each other over, even during character creation

I would absolutely love to see a Community Rep ask the Developers directly how they feel about that. Ask them if they really think their Killer Gamer Masters and that they need to create a world full of monsters that immediately kill all players near by.

[Winrie]

Did someone really say claiming took skill? Claiming took a push of a button and some eye movement, or in cases of some, a bot. I think the skill chat comes from, as with me from the fact that what we were fighting was among the strongest, standard fights that required setups, and coordination and communication, more namely with worm and ixion, which IMO were the perfect types of hnms and they blocked claims botters from excelling, and they took people working together to find it, capture and kill. I don't mind once a day spawns if I don't have time to slam a mob all day, I could do without Tiamat length windows though, if a nm is going to have windows that long, they need to be dropped some amazing shit, not some movement feet only. Ultimately I long for a reason to have a big ls again, I long for giant monsters that can cripple us if we aren't careful. No voidwatch isn't that nor will it ever be.

[Rosina]

I'm in aggreement of the OP. I'm a long time ffxi player from 2004-2012 (with breaks) I've been thru the mass hnm stuff. That was asinine. At times the hnm or nm wouldn't pop till about 12am-3am est. Or even later. I recall when i did brown belt quest. I stayed up 24 hours just to get ToD.
Only to have to wake up @ 6am the next day to try and claim it. To me, that isn't fun.

I'm far from a casual gamer/player. I typically can play ffxi for 12+hrs a day. (jobless atm friend paying my account) But really waiting around for a NM all day is dull.

I got tired of it and actually suggested SE change the time spawns to how Abyssea is now. The only time pop nm I liked was the 2 in the Highlands. Where u needed new moon or full moon and 00:00-05:00. I'm not caring if I get drop or not. I rather get a chance to actually SEE the nm in question. To date... i never even see most the hnm cuz their pop times never fit my schedual. Which is a shame since i've been playing since Ps2 launch NA side.

[Demon6324236]

Did someone really say claiming took skill? Claiming took a push of a button and some eye movement, or in cases of some, a bot. I think the skill chat comes from, as with me from the fact that what we were fighting was among the strongest, standard fights that required setups, and coordination and communication, more namely with worm and ixion, which IMO were the perfect types of hnms and they blocked claims botters from excelling, and they took people working together to find it, capture and kill. I don't mind once a day spawns if I don't have time to slam a mob all day, I could do without Tiamat length windows though, if a nm is going to have windows that long, they need to be dropped some amazing shit, not some movement feet only. Ultimately I long for a reason to have a big ls again, I long for giant monsters that can cripple us if we aren't careful. No voidwatch isn't that nor will it ever be.

I would love some nice hard NMs, world NMs would be cool too so long as they don't have to long of spawn timers, make them something like a hour and Ill be ok with it, day spawns, especially if they drop EX gear, will never be ok to me.

[Rekin]

The only way I'll ever support a timed spawn NM is if its a world spawn that can be challenged by anyone and everyone at the same time. It could be a massive creature capable of tearing people to pieces if fought by only one or two alliances. Kinda like early besieged where monsters where impossible to kill alone. As for drops have it drop from the nm where it can be lotted by anyone who participated along with a personal chest with loot related to that person's merits in battle. Or hell introduce a type of point system.

[Reiterpallasch]

I'm in aggreement of the OP. I'm a long time ffxi player from 2004-2012 (with breaks) I've been thru the mass hnm stuff.
So you don't want timed spawns because you've been "thru" the HNM stuff, yet:

i never even see most the hnm.
You haven't even seen most of them?

[Demon6324236]

So you don't want timed spawns because you've been "thru" the HNM stuff, yet:

You haven't even seen most of them?

This is part of the problem, why make something if half of the player base will never see/fight it? People already agree about how the special Mog Bonanza BCNMs were stupid that alot of people never get to play them.

[Natenn]

Ppl just mad they couldn't claim so they use every excuse in the book, claim or get out. EVERYONE crys bots wha wha wha when you actually have 0 or little evidence. Some items/fights are supoosed to rare, not popped 100x a day or dropped givin to random ppl who can't even utilise them properly. FFXI needs to go back to stuff actually having to be worked towards, not oh i got lucky on a VW drop now let me not show up anymore herp derp. Long respawns/hard NMs are the future.

[Kojo]

It's not a point of claiming, getting stuff, or even the in-game economy. It's drama, in game is less dramatic nowadays, it's more enjoyable because there aren't many LSs dumb enough to go-at-it against each other. The only place I see drama within the FFXI community anymore is on these forums, hence the reason I only come here when following announcements and updates. If you want to compete for something, try out for the Olympics; I play video games for fun, not as a job. This is something I do after work.

[Habu]

The game is less dramatic now? You're kidding right? You must not see people cry about emps, or how they wiped and their mob was taken, or how they're stupid and popped an HNM attacked something else, it goes yellow and it gets taken. The game still has drama, probably not as much, but it's still drama filled. Sit in PJ long enough and you'll see someone crying about something. People don't like HNMs because only one group of people get to fight it once per day. They want to be spoon fed their drops by a proc system and when that doesn't work for them they cry enough until even that system is weakened by trading clusters.
The picture I posted earlier pretty much sums up how FFXI was, centered around people who played more than 1 hour a day, and enjoyed the competition of others with the claiming system (yes there were flaws but what system doesn't?). Instead it's now centered around people who have a preschool mentality and think that the would should be equal and fair for everyone, and drops should literally just fall into your lap.
Take Nyzul and Legion for example people are complaining that they are too hard and should be weakened so that the everyday causal can go in screw up 100x and still get the win. They cry hacks if content is hard and others succeed at it, but that's not always the case. A majority of the time people just flat out suck and don't want to admit it. Face it, regardless if there is HNM or not, whatever content does come out people will complain that others are succeeding more, the content is too hard, and people MUST be using hacks to beat it.
Yes, most of the player base is most likely casual players now, but that isn't an excuse to exclude a decent amount of the player base. We've already said that we don't mind if the drops from HNM also drop from a mob like Odin, yet for some of you this still isn't enough. You hate HNM so much that you don't want them to be in the game even for people who want to do them. If the drops come from another source, what's there to complain about?

[Rekin]

Hey buddy, hey buddy want a tough game with lots of competition and in depth meta gaming? Go play a fighting game.

But more to the point challenging monsters I support, having the best gear come from said monsters is great. My only issue is getting to said monster. You see one of the best games I've ever had the pleasure of playing was Monster Hunter, the monsters were always there, and always challenging but most of all it was always free game to anyone trying to fight it. By having the monster free to all to challenge it was a fair way to truly separate good or bad players without having to resort to tools not part of the game or cheap tactics. Also stop straw manning. It devalues your argument.

[Zerich]

Hey buddy, hey buddy what a tough game with lots of competition and in depth meta gaming? Go play a fighting game.

But more to the point challenging monsters I support, having the best gear come from said monsters is great. My only issue is getting to said monster. You see one of the best games I've ever had the pleasure of playing was Monster Hunter, the monsters were always there, and always challenging but most of all it was always free game to anyone trying to fight it. By having the monster free to all to challenge it was a fair way to truly separate good or bad players without having to resort to tools not part of the game or cheap tactics. Also stop straw manning. It devalues your argument.

those two trolls devalue their argument by stating it.

[Demon6324236]

Instead it's now centered around people who have a preschool mentality and think that the would should be equal and fair for everyone

Yes, because this is how an ideal game should be. Equal opportunity to progress in the game and have fun. You want to have certain things only for people who are "elite" players so you can gloat and be assholes, no, don't want that anymore, had it long enough.


If the drops come from another source, what's there to complain about?

Nothing, but there is almost no chance of this actually happening.

[Demon6324236]

Yes, because this is how an ideal game should be. Equal opportunity to progress in the game and have fun. You want to have certain things only for people who are "elite" players so you can gloat and be assholes, no, don't want that anymore, had it long enough.

Adding onto this...
In real life, things arnt fair, because the assholes that have the most power and control make it unfair. In a game, there is no reason not to be fair to everyone, so its better for them to make it fair to everyone. Fair games hold on to people better, and keep money flowing into their pockets, unfair games that like to screw groups of people who actually have lives outside of the game, don't do so well.

[Habu]

Nothing, but there is almost no chance of this actually happening.

Hi HNM items dropping from Odin.

[Demon6324236]

Hi HNM items dropping from Odin.

Yes, and that was how long after the items were originally introduced? Thats like saying the BCNM items for PCC & Bouncing Boots should have made people happy. Difference between what I'm saying and that is, if they are going to do that, do it when content is 1st implemented, not a year or so later. You want this content because you enjoy it, well, enjoy, give me the ability to get the exact same rewards in a very similar way without all of the annoyance and wasted time your way brings me.

[Kojo]

those two trolls devalue their argument by stating it.

Was I referred to as a troll here?

[cidbahamut]

Was I referred to as a troll here?

Nah, I think they were referring to Habu and the Galka.

[Rosina]

So you don't want timed spawns because you've been "thru" the HNM stuff, yet:

You haven't even seen most of them?
If you look in the context I typed it at, when I said I was "thru" as in "through" this meant I was currently playing ffxi when people hunted hnm. Even my dynamis LS tried hunting a few. What we git was 4+ hour wait @ 3am and 2 Eu members told their hnm LS the hnm pop'ed and took it.

And what i meant by not seeing them, is because I was always asleep during windows. It was rare in my case that the hnm would Pop around a decent time frame for me to partake in.

[Demon6324236]

Nah, I think they were referring to Habu and the Galka.

Likewise...

[Habu]

Yes, and that was how long after the items were originally introduced? Thats like saying the BCNM items for PCC & Bouncing Boots should have made people happy. Difference between what I'm saying and that is, if they are going to do that, do it when content is 1st implemented, not a year or so later. You want this content because you enjoy it, well, enjoy, give me the ability to get the exact same rewards in a very similar way without all of the annoyance and wasted time your way brings me.

Are you missing the part where I've said that they can implement both ways? It's not hard of a concept to grasp but I understand your casual mind can only do so much.

[Demon6324236]

If you look in the context I typed it at, when I said I was "thru" as in "through" this meant I was currently playing ffxi when people hunted hnm. Even my dynamis LS tried hunting a few. What we git was 4+ hour wait @ 3am and 2 Eu members told their hnm LS the hnm pop'ed and took it.

And what i meant by not seeing them, is because I was always asleep during windows. It was rare in my case that the hnm would Pop around a decent time frame for me to partake in.

Which goes back to what I said as a problem, content being made that alot of people never have/will see, which is bad in general.

[Rosina]

@ habu In some cases I agree with you, but what you are saying is not 100% true. I dislike the concept of hnm not because only one group can fight it. I dislike it cause at times, it would pop in a time frame I can't do. I stated my dislike as a non casual. I can play this game more then 1 hour a day. And no offence, I can't always be up for a 5am hnm hunt. I do need to sleep sometime. Not everyone wants to be spoon fed content. I'm against it actually. Sort of why I dislike Leeching. All it is, is being spoon fed.
And hate to say Leeching can effect your skill level when playing because it does take some practice in actual combat to really play your role. I knew Legion was going to bite people in the butt and want it nerfed. But that is a different topic all together.

All I want is to actualy partake in content. No reward needed. I'm not doing content for the reward, I'm doing it to enjoy the content. I love a good fight or dungeon run. I loved stuff like dynamis because the zones where cool.

[Demon6324236]

Are you missing the part where I've said that they can implement both waysYou say they can implement both ways, then you state an example of how they did, but did it in a way that was bad due to long wait time. No I understand exactly what you said, and it makes no sense. Yes, they might do both, but there is a good change they will not do both at the same time, and that is what I am saying they would need to do for it to be ok.
It's not hard of a concept to grasp but I understand your casual mind can only do so much.Two things, one, define casual. Two, insulting me does nothing to support your argument, all it does is attempt to escalate the argument, which is pointless because it is a sign of a troll, something it seems many people think you are here if I'm not mistaken. Why not try proving them wrong by actually proving to me why your right rather than throwing around weak words then an insult to try making a point?

[Zerich]

Nah, I think they were referring to Habu and the Galka.

yeah, those two.

[Rosina]

Are you missing the part where I've said that they can implement both ways? It's not hard of a concept to grasp but I understand your casual mind can only do so much.

No offence habu, you are being rude and giving actual hard cores a bad name. Cointent should be seen by every paying customer reguardless of how much time they can play. When I first started ffxi in 2004, I could only play 2 hours up to 4 hours a day. This was due to lack of router so ps3 and Pc had to share the net. And ironically even with suck small time frame of play, I still got parties and still did a good bit of content. When i got my own ps2 bought a router. I was able to play more and do more. But even under 12-20 hour gaming sessions. I still couldn't see every hnm I wanted. Like getting black belt. (only item i wanted if anything)

[Neisan_Quetz]

Just noted someone compared Mog Bonanza relic reward to gold farming KIs. Other than that Timed spawns aren't completely terribad but shouldn't take hours and days on end to spawn.

[Habu]

No offence habu, you are being rude and giving actual hard cores a bad name. Cointent should be seen by every paying customer reguardless of how much time they can play. When I first started ffxi in 2004, I could only play 2 hours up to 4 hours a day. This was due to lack of router so ps3 and Pc had to share the net. And ironically even with suck small time frame of play, I still got parties and still did a good bit of content. When i got my own ps2 bought a router. I was able to play more and do more. But even under 12-20 hour gaming sessions. I still couldn't see every hnm I wanted. Like getting black belt. (only item i wanted if anything)

Listen, there's no changing anyone's mind on these forums. I've realized that and pretty much stopped trying to after the first thread I made about HNMs. People want what they want, me and others want HNMs, there's not changing our minds. Much like others who don't want them will never change their minds. Nothing anyone says on here really matters to the other party because they have their own set of things they call "fun".

[Kojo]

yeah, those two.

Ah, carry on then. lol

[Rekin]

Listen, there's no changing anyone's mind on these forums. I've realized that and pretty much stopped trying to after the first thread I made about HNMs. People want what they want, me and others want HNMs, there's not changing our minds. Much like others who don't want them will never change their minds. Nothing anyone says on here really matters to the other party because they have their own set of things they call "fun".

This is usually the case for most people past a certain age and having created their own sort of ego. My personal opinion is that a game really isn't much of a game when the main challenge to be found in a monster that is officially part of the game less entertaining then planting your flag on said monster before others. Sort of like ghetto tag where just seeing a person is enough to say that they've been caught. No real tag has you run and catch the person which can be a challenge depending on your own merits.

Also props for having not used a type of slander or derogatory words.

[Spiritreaver]

Nah, I think they were referring to Habu and the Galka.

That sounds like a bad TV show from the '70's.

[saevel]

Ok lets get something clear.

There are no, and never were any, "Hard NMs".

There were only ignorant and uninformed players who used faulty strategies. Eventually players wised up and came up with better strategies. Those better strategies took on the KISS approach of making fights as simple and straight forward as possible, thus maximizing the chance of defeating the NM.

You people are referring tor a FFXI that never existed. Only in your rose tinted memories does such a game exist and only because you've chosen to forget the actual facts surrounding it and only remember the moment when you figured out how to kill it.

DL was "really hard", then he become a joke. Nidhogg was "really hard", then he became a joke. Kirin was "really hard / long", then he became a joke. KB was "wtf hard", then he became a joke. Tiamatt was "ridiculously hard", then she became a joke. Vrtra was the only one that stayed "hard" and only due to the adds and monsters in the room. Bring enough people to handle those and it's much easier then Tiamatt.

I can't remember a single event @75 that remained hard once we figured out an easy strategy. This game doesn't have the mechanics implemented to make any sort of fight "really hard", its just one big game of dice rolling with your stats vs the monsters stats. The fights themselves were straightforward tank and spanks, nothing more.

Thus "World HNM" are not hard, never were hard, and never will be hard. The only thing special about them is they allowed one group of people willing to pay $2000 ~ $4000 USD for a packet bot to have exclusive gear. They were so bad that tvtroupes even made a special troupe about them "The Ridill".

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LootDrama?from=Main.TheRidill

People who want world spawned NMs really want exclusive loot that they can show off. Their wanting drama and conflict amongst the player base. They are the worst form of troll.

[Phogg]

The game is less dramatic now? You're kidding right? You must not see people cry about emps, or how they wiped and their mob was taken, or how they're stupid and popped an HNM attacked something else, it goes yellow and it gets taken. The game still has drama, probably not as much, but it's still drama filled. Sit in PJ long enough and you'll see someone crying about something. People don't like HNMs because only one group of people get to fight it once per day. They want to be spoon fed their drops by a proc system and when that doesn't work for them they cry enough until even that system is weakened by trading clusters.
The picture I posted earlier pretty much sums up how FFXI was, centered around people who played more than 1 hour a day, and enjoyed the competition of others with the claiming system (yes there were flaws but what system doesn't?). Instead it's now centered around people who have a preschool mentality and think that the would should be equal and fair for everyone, and drops should literally just fall into your lap.
Take Nyzul and Legion for example people are complaining that they are too hard and should be weakened so that the everyday causal can go in screw up 100x and still get the win. They cry hacks if content is hard and others succeed at it, but that's not always the case. A majority of the time people just flat out suck and don't want to admit it. Face it, regardless if there is HNM or not, whatever content does come out people will complain that others are succeeding more, the content is too hard, and people MUST be using hacks to beat it.
Yes, most of the player base is most likely casual players now, but that isn't an excuse to exclude a decent amount of the player base. We've already said that we don't mind if the drops from HNM also drop from a mob like Odin, yet for some of you this still isn't enough. You hate HNM so much that you don't want them to be in the game even for people who want to do them. If the drops come from another source, what's there to complain about?

Sorry but your arguments are logically fallacious. There is no similarity between nyzul isle, something any group can do at any time and any day they wish (fail or succeed) and timed HNMs. No one is (or should be) arguing that content should be easy, ie nerfing nyzul difficulty. This is about arbitrary pop timers, which whether you are inclined to believe so or not, have no bearing or relevance on anyone's level of skill.

I managed to claim behemoth against 40 people in the dominion back in the day with charm as a beastmaster. Do I think I'm super awesome because I did so? No, I just got lucky. Luck has nothing to do with challenge/skill/etc. Timed NMs where one person/group gets the fortune of claiming is just a stupid archaic system.

Let the challenge be in the battle, where it should be. Not whether or not you are fortunate enough to even manage to engage in said battle due to an abundance of luck or a cadre or people with time enough to spend sitting idle in a game until it pops. There is really no way to overstate how little that has to do with any form or manner of skill, and how kind of sad it is to think so.

[Habu]

Sorry but your arguments are logically fallacious. There is no similarity between nyzul isle, something any group can do at any time and any day they wish (fail or succeed) and timed HNMs. No one is (or should be) arguing that content should be easy, ie nerfing nyzul difficulty. This is about arbitrary pop timers, which whether you are inclined to believe so or not, have no bearing or relevance on anyone's level of skill.

I managed to claim behemoth against 40 people in the dominion back in the day with charm as a beastmaster. Do I think I'm super awesome because I did so? No, I just got lucky. Luck has nothing to do with challenge/skill/etc. Timed NMs where one person/group gets the fortune of claiming is just a stupid archaic system.

Let the challenge be in the battle, where it should be. Not whether or not you are fortunate enough to even manage to engage in said battle due to an abundance of luck or a cadre or people with time enough to spend sitting idle in a game until it pops. There is really no way to overstate how little that has to do with any form or manner of skill, and how kind of sad it is to think so.

You obviously can't read.

[Phogg]

You obviously can't read.

You are arguing to continue/perpetuate timed NMs, yes? That is the core of your entire persistence with this thread, is it not?

You used nyzul as some form of support to your argument, yes?

You are offering red herring arguments, I can read just fine.

When you can provide any valid argument where claiming a timed NM has anything at all to do with skill, as you imply by telling people multiple times in this thread to "suckless", I'll have a sad stale cookie waiting for you.

[Habu]

Yes.

No. I was saying people will continue to complain about any form of content they don't like, or think is too hard, or unfair. I used those as examples of an "event being to hard".

If you want to read where I actually cared about arguing on this topic go read the thread I made. I've already said that I've stopped caring about trying to change people's mind because it will never happen. Thus the "suckless" etc comments, because if they don't care, neither do I.

[Phogg]

Yes.

No. I was saying people will continue to complain about any form of content they don't like, or think is too hard, or unfair. I used those as examples of an "event being to hard".

If you want to read where I actually cared about arguing on this topic go read the thread I made. I've already said that I've stopped caring about trying to change people's mind because it will never happen. Thus the "suckless" etc comments, because if they don't care, neither do I.

I don't see much in the way of people suggesting the events/battles are to hard in this thread, they are saying timed NMs are stupid and lame, and you are replying that they should "suckless" for thinking as much without providing any consistent reasoning behind your argument that claiming a timed NM has anything to do with the suck~to~skill ratio.

Sounds more like you might fall in the category of people who were sad that dynamis changed because they could no longer occupy dynamis for 3 hours once a week even though their LS no longer even had any need for doing dynamis.


All I'm reading is wha wha I can't claim. Suckless or cleave your KIs

Yeah, sounds an awful lot like you just don't care about changing the hearts and minds of forum goers, benevolent one.

[Demon6324236]

When you can tell me why times spawns like the ones you want are better for the game and its population I may change my views on it. Instead you do not, you insult people who don't share your views and back up the fact HNM should be brought back with nothing.

[Habu]

One sided view, nothing will change your mind, waste of time, circular argument.

[Demon6324236]

One sided view, nothing will change your mind, waste of time, circular argument.

You don't know it wont will change my mind unless you try, if thats not your goal then shut up and go away, your only trolling.

[Habu]

Read my last post.

[Natenn]

HNM = Future, but only the true elites will get to fight them and win, take your perle PUG and go back to abyssea, ffxi belongs to the no lifers once again.

[Demon6324236]

One sided view, nothing will change your mind, waste of time, circular argument.

Yes, again, you don't know if it will change my mind or not, you have told me no advantage that benefits the game by adding time spawns on the size you speak of. If its a waste of time, why don't you go do something else? Maybe this is why you want these spawns, because you like to waste time, I don't know, and you don't want to even try explaining any good reason for it.

[Demon6324236]

HNM = Future, but only the true elites will get to fight them and win, take your perle PUG and go back to abyssea, ffxi belongs to the no lifers once again.

Because having no life is a good thing right?

[Natenn]

And Habu is a hero. trying to bring this easy mode catered to weaklings game back to its former glory.

[Phogg]

One sided view, nothing will change your mind, waste of time, circular argument.

You need to present an argument to determine if it is circular.

What is your argument in favor of timed NM spawns aside from "suckless"?

[Demon6324236]

And Habu is a hero. trying to bring this easy mode catered to weaklings game back to its former glory.

Former glory of people getting lucky to claim a NM before everyone else, making everyone waste hours of their life, possibly getting something good from the NM, then being an ass and gloating about it to everyone else? Yes, very glorious, I cant see why anyone would dislike this.

[Habu]

You need to present an argument to determine if it is circular.

What is your argument in favor of timed NM spawns aside from "suckless"?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/24074-HNMs-and-the-future-of-FFXI

Read that.

[Reiterpallasch]

making everyone waste hours of their life
Don't wanna camp HNM? Don't join a shell based around the camping of HNMs. Nobody is making you do content you don't want to. The only person wasting your time is yourself.

[Phogg]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/24074-HNMs-and-the-future-of-FFXI

Read that.

I read it, and all I get from that is basically you are not interested in the game if it lacks some form of PvP. In your case, this is in the form of "claiming" a mob only available during a specific, infrequent moment in time, but only at a time slightly after it becomes theoretically visible to all end user clients and also "available" to be claimed via innumerable actual in game commands of varying degrees of delay.

As such, 40 end users sit around in one small boring location in hopes of mashing their "button" in sync with this event, in doing so laying claim to the glory and adoration assumed for such an almost unimaginable level of conquest and bravery in the field of battle.


Never mind that their mule died mere seconds after the remainder of the LS achieved rightful claim!


Never mind that the dead but glorious and rightful owner to the claim lay dead and unattended.


Victory over the button was ours. It was OURS! We claimed the beast! So what if it died and dropped some stuff.

We CLAIMED it! {All right!!} Clearly we are the superior hardcore players casuals can only dream of wishing to be!



Meh, maybe I'm alone but that just seems lame to me.

[Demon6324236]

Don't wanna camp HNM? Don't join a shell based around the camping of HNMs. Nobody is making you do content you don't want to. The only person wasting your time is yourself.

I didn't want to make an Emp, I had to to be accepted into partys otherwise I was gimp. I didn't want to focus on another job besides RDM, I had to because people reject RDMs. To play this game yes you have to have certain things and are forced into certain content like it or not.

Simple way to see HNMs in my eyes. You like to camp the NMs, if your reason is you like the feel of knowing you got the NM before everyone else, and they are now mad, you are an asshole, simple as that. You are happy because of others misery, thats being an asshole, and why I do not support the content, same thing as gloating, you want special gear for you cause your "better" or spent more time, no, this leads to gloating you have things people don't. If you did not want to gloat then there is little reason why diverse gear would matter to you, as such nothing you have presented for HNMs being good is morally correct or good, and should not happen.

[Demon6324236]

Meh, maybe I'm alone but that just seems lame to me.

Me as well.

[saevel]

Meh, maybe I'm alone but that just seems lame to me.

It is lame. It's the mark of someone with a social disorder or self esteem problem. Their deriving self esteem from the rarity of virtual property, namely in the ownership of some 1's and 0's inside SE's server center. Make those pieces of virtual property common to acquire and their self esteem generating value goes down. Not only must the virtual property be rare, it must be highly desirable in order to have a high self esteem generating value.

Or you can just get the heck out of the game and go get a real life. Get laid a few times, get a GF (BF) or two. Attend some form of social events and make connections with actual people. Set goals and reach them, acquire actual real self esteem. Then look back and realize how utterly stupid it is to use virtual property as a source of self esteem.

[Zerich]

HNM = Future, but only the true elites will get to fight them and win, take your perle PUG and go back to abyssea, ffxi belongs to the no lifers once again.

proof of troll

[Habu]

It is lame. It's the mark of someone with a social disorder or self esteem problem. Their deriving self esteem from the rarity of virtual property, namely in the ownership of some 1's and 0's inside SE's server center. Make those pieces of virtual property common to acquire and their self esteem generating value goes down. Not only must the virtual property be rare, it must be highly desirable in order to have a high self esteem generating value.

Or you can just get the heck out of the game and go get a real life. Get laid a few times, get a GF (BF) or two. Attend some form of social events and make connections with actual people. Set goals and reach them, acquire actual real self esteem. Then look back and realize how utterly stupid it is to use virtual property as a source of self esteem.

And everyone says I'm the one throwing insults at people.

[Reiterpallasch]

I didn't want to make an Emp, I had to to be accepted into partys otherwise I was gimp. I didn't want to focus on another job besides RDM, I had to because people reject RDMs. To play this game yes you have to have certain things and are forced into certain content like it or not.
What stopped you from making your own parties? Surely people didn't check you as you shouted and went "omg no emp? gimp!". So no, you didn't need to make one. But as easy as they are to make, there's no reason not to, either.


Simple way to see HNMs in my eyes. You like to camp the NMs, if your reason is you like the feel of knowing you got the NM before everyone else, and they are now mad, you are an asshole, simple as that. You are happy because of others misery, thats being an asshole, and why I do not support the content, same thing as gloating, you want special gear for you cause your "better" or spent more time, no, this leads to gloating you have things people don't. If you did not want to gloat then there is little reason why diverse gear would matter to you, as such nothing you have presented for HNMs being good is morally correct or good, and should not happen.
I'm an asshole? Nowhere did I say I'm happy because of the misery of others, nor am I gloating. I actually said that good gear shouldn't be hard to get. I said the best gear should be hard to get and that not everybody should have it.

The fact that you're so offended by the idea that people like yourself might *gasp* not just be handed the absolute best gear for minimal effort just shows that you, sir, are the asshole.



Edit: I don't want better gear than you for the fucking funsies of having better gear. I want better gear as a reward for the dedication of putting the time and effort into obtaining said gear without having my accomplishment shit on by someone that wants to get the same thing for 1/10th the effort.

[Rosina]

this is why i dislike timed pop nms...
so just a few hours ago me me friend and a random camper joined up to kill valkrum emperor. we hunt the thing for 2-3+ hours. We are pretty much falling asleep being bored to tears.... the thing finally pops around 2am est. And.... no drop. Pretty much wasted 3 hours hunting for a mob that "may" drop a decenjt peice of head gear so i can save gil on not needing to keep updating my head gear for a while.

I almost feel asleep and died a few times from aggro cuz we hunted it while getting my support job item... which ironically didn't drop till after 24 mobs. We got so bored we started talking about random bs.. from how much we hate timed pops to ffxiv.

for those who don't seem to get the dislike of timed pop nm. People WANT to do they content they help pay for. And its stupid that time issues prevent it. Like I said i play 12-20 hours a day, and still can't always be up for a hnm window. Thats a bad design.

[Demon6324236]

What stopped you from making your own parties? Surely people didn't check you as you shouted and went "omg no emp? gimp!". So no, you didn't need to make one. But as easy as they are to make, there's no reason not to, either.


I'm an asshole? Nowhere did I say I'm happy because of the misery of others, nor am I gloating. I actually said that good gear shouldn't be hard to get. I said the best gear should be hard to get and that not everybody should have it.

The fact that you're so offended by the idea that people like yourself might *gasp* not just be handed the absolute best gear for minimal effort just shows that you, sir, are the asshole.



Edit: I don't want better gear than you for the fucking funsies of having better gear. I want better gear as a reward for the dedication of putting the time and effort into obtaining said gear without having my accomplishment shit on by someone that wants to get the same thing for 1/10th the effort.

My 2nd part was basicly to anyone with the same idealism as this fellow here
Its goood bc it severly limits the flow of "rare" items. things commoners don't have, things like the VW pulse gear should of been put on 21-24 HNM with a signifigantly higher drop rate. Not made so casuals can spam it 1000x. Drama and jealousy and everpresent in all MMOs, no matter what it will always be there, what made ffxi so great b4 is that this was embraced in the HNM community, i loved the drama and the thrill of claiming knowing theres anywhere from 30-100 ppl being mad cause im getting to fight the nm and they're not, it wasn't even about the drops for the first few minutes just the "OH YEA ITS MINE" feeling. Whats good for you and whats good for the game are two different things.

As for being handed gear you don't understand. You for some reason do not understand the stupidity that is the idea of a monster in a virtual world that if you wish to fight you will likely need to base your life around. Some people have jobs, need to sleep, have family and friends outside, the game should not punish people who have their priorities in check and know life>game.

[Zerich]

this is why i dislike timed pop nms...
so just a few hours ago me me friend and a random camper joined up to kill valkrum emperor. we hunt the thing for 2-3+ hours. We are pretty much falling asleep being bored to tears.... the thing finally pops around 2am est. And.... no drop. Pretty much wasted 3 hours hunting for a mob that "may" drop a decenjt peice of head gear so i can save gil on not needing to keep updating my head gear for a while.

I almost feel asleep and died a few times from aggro cuz we hunted it while getting my support job item... which ironically didn't drop till after 24 mobs. We got so bored we started talking about random bs.. from how much we hate timed pops to ffxiv.

for those who don't seem to get the dislike of timed pop nm. People WANT to do they content they help pay for. And its stupid that time issues prevent it. Like I said i play 12-20 hours a day, and still can't always be up for a hnm window. Thats a bad design.

these are either really bad trolls, or very sad individuals who enjoy being played by the game. simple.

[Rosina]

these are either really bad trolls, or very sad individuals who enjoy being played by the game. simple.

I hope ur not talking about me. I wasn't making it seem i was complaining about the drop rate of empress hairpin. Was more stated how bored i was trying to actually do the fight to try and get the gear. VE is a fun fight at low level. Same for LL at lower level. And the drops can hold you for several levels which saves you some good gil if your returnging or starting fresh.

I'm more saying 3 hours of bordem, 2 minutes of fun is a bad design. Drop or not. Cuz as i stated before

I do not do content for drops, I do content to do content. getting a drop is bonus to me. This is because at the end of the day, the memory of a fun fight is longer lasting after log off then a vitural Item that has no meaning after log off.

[Zerich]

I hope ur not talking about me. I wasn't making it seem i was complaining about the drop rate of empress hairpin. Was more stated how bored i was trying to actually do the fight to try and get the gear. VE is a fun fight at low level. Same for LL at lower level. And the drops can hold you for several levels which saves you some good gil if your returnging or starting fresh.

I'm more saying 3 hours of bordem, 2 minutes of fun is a bad design. Drop or not. Cuz as i stated before

I do not do content for drops, I do content to do content. getting a drop is bonus to me. This is because at the end of the day, the memory of a fun fight is longer lasting after log off then a vitural Item that has no meaning after log off.

oh god no, i wasn't talking about you ; - ;
sorry it looked like that.

it was on a statement of people who find programming their sleep schedule over a game, being 'fun'.

[Rosina]

oh god no, i wasn't talking about you ; - ;
sorry it looked like that.

it was on a statement of people who find programming their sleep schedule over a game, being 'fun'.

ya its ok i'm so baked from my 3hr nm hunt .... (not high on weed just tired and frustrated it took so long to fking pop) this feeling is why i hate hunting nm. I hate feeling tired and frustrated from playing a video game. I like feeling good like "omg i fight that weeeee" not "omg WGEN WILL THE MOFO POP ITS BEEN 5 HOURS"

[Shadowsong]

As for being handed gear you don't understand. You for some reason do not understand the stupidity that is the idea of a monster in a virtual world that if you wish to fight you will likely need to base your life around. Some people have jobs, need to sleep, have family and friends outside, the game should not punish people who have their priorities in check and know life>game.

Why must ALL content be availible to ALL people? So you are saying, to the people who CAN be on the game 4+ hours a day, that they can never excell over the people that play 2 hours a week?
Make content for everyone. Casual? go work on some af3 in abyss. Hardecore? Legion and Providence and neo-stuff.
Just because you cant play enough to get to these stages, no one can?

[Shadowsong]

ya its ok i'm so baked from my 3hr nm hunt .... (not high on weed just tired and frustrated it took so long to fking pop) this feeling is why i hate hunting nm. I hate feeling tired and frustrated from playing a video game. I like feeling good like "omg i fight that weeeee" not "omg WGEN WILL THE MOFO POP ITS BEEN 5 HOURS"

Sorry double post, cant edit on my phone.
May I ask why you play this game if it makes you tired and frustrated? You dont seem like you have much fun.

[Zerich]

Why must ALL content be availible to ALL people? So you are saying, to the people who CAN be on the game 4+ hours a day, that they can never excell over the people that play 2 hours a week?
Make content for everyone. Casual? go work on some af3 in abyss. Hardecore? Legion and Providence and neo-stuff.
Just because you cant play enough to get to these stages, no one can?

Don't you have something better to do, like camping Roc?
Btw, what's 'Hardecore', did you mean to say 'Hordecore'? This isn't WoW.

Also, how is casual (see: being alive) a bad thing? People who have found the balance between being a gamer and having healthy relationships outside of a game are to be shunned? And you think Prov. is hXc...are you sure you know what you're talking about?

[Shadowsong]

Don't you have something better to do, like camping Roc?
Btw, what's 'Hardecore', did you mean to say 'Hordecore'? This isn't WoW.

Also, how is casual (see: being alive) a bad thing? People who have found the balance between being a gamer and having healthy relationships outside of a game are to be shunned? And you think Prov. is hXc...are you sure you know what you're talking about?

Sigh, READING COMPREHENSION, WHAT IS IT?
And wtf is Hordecore

[Zerich]

Sigh, READING COMPREHENSION, WHAT IS IT?
And wtf is Hordecore

What is a google?

I misread what you suggested and immediately took the attack. But yeah, I do feel as though someone with more average time to sink into the game should have the potential for accomplishing more than someone with 2 hours of limited play, per night. I just don't believe that this should entirely bar people with less time, just take longer.

[Demon6324236]

So you are saying, to the people who CAN be on the game 4+ hours a day, that they can never excell over the people that play 2 hours a week?

In a way yes, if you have a life and you want to enjoy this game, you can not do both with how people arguing HNMs would seem to want it. As I said, you need things before people will let you do events with them, for instance, VW. VW normally you are turned down if you have no Emp/Relic & +2 or at least a WS & TP set. Myself I can do this, I play this game often, however people who do not get to do what? If you play 2 hours a week what can you do if you want to enjoy these events?

You can not say to make your own party, you have never done the content you will probably do it wrong, people will learn your name and avoid your partys. You cant make an Emp/Relic because you don't have the time. This limits players to much, and as I said, its punishing people who have their priorities straight. If you are changing when you sleep to depend on when a NM is going to be up on this game, you need to reevaluate yourself on what you are doing in your life.

Now, if you are determined to do something of grand scale that is a different story, the challenge of a relic can be done by someone with little time, my friend and co-leader to my ls is on only 3~4 hours a day due to real life things. He has been working on a Relic Great Axe, and is making progress when possible. In the same time he takes to finish this, someone who plays FFXI all day in and out could probably do 5 or 6 relics if not more, the point is, he can do the same thing as them, and has a mostly fair chance. HNMs on the scale that is being spoken of are 21~24 hour spawns, meaning in a persons 3~4 hour day, they would have a small chance if from the moment they got on till they got off, they could see the NM, let alone claim, and fight it.



I would rather the dev team focus on content 90% of us will experience and possibly enjoy, rather than content 10% of us claim we do/would enjoy, and 1~3% would actually get to experience.

[saevel]

In a way yes, if you have a life and you want to enjoy this game, you can not do both with how people arguing HNMs would seem to want it. As I said, you need things before people will let you do events with them, for instance, VW. VW normally you are turned down if you have no Emp/Relic & +2 or at least a WS & TP set. Myself I can do this, I play this game often, however people who do not get to do what? If you play 2 hours a week what can you do if you want to enjoy these events?

This is why the abyssea method of gear acquisition was so awesome. If you were someone with tons of time you could knock out sets really fast, maybe a little too fast though. If you were someone with a very limited schedule you could still knock out your sets. It would take you much longer and you'd be doing it slowly, but you'd get it done eventually. Same with emp weapons.

In either case both groups could acquire the same gear, one took longer then the other but both had the same level of access. The game didn't' artificially penalize the person with limited time. Aka there was no electric floor in this idealized version of a skinner's box.

[Habu]

In a way yes, if you have a life and you want to enjoy this game, you can not do both with how people arguing HNMs would seem to want it. As I said, you need things before people will let you do events with them, for instance, VW. VW normally you are turned down if you have no Emp/Relic & +2 or at least a WS & TP set. Myself I can do this, I play this game often, however people who do not get to do what? If you play 2 hours a week what can you do if you want to enjoy these events?

You can not say to make your own party, you have never done the content you will probably do it wrong, people will learn your name and avoid your partys. You cant make an Emp/Relic because you don't have the time. This limits players to much, and as I said, its punishing people who have their priorities straight. If you are changing when you sleep to depend on when a NM is going to be up on this game, you need to reevaluate yourself on what you are doing in your life.

I'm getting really tired of your "people with a life" crap. Because people who are good at this game and devote a decent amount of time to it don't have lives right? I've tried to remain somewhat light on the insults but it's obvious to everyone that you are a complete moron. So you can only do VW if you have an emp/relic, because the person can't go on a mage job? The person can't look at info before hand to learn how to setup a group for ANYTHING in the game? There is a plethora of strategies for every VW and even PW now. You say emps are hard and you can only make them if you devote a lot of time to the game? No. Farm a little when you can and it will get done, if you're that worried about being able to do an even then you'll be willing to farm a little whenever you can to be useful in said events.


Now, if you are determined to do something of grand scale that is a different story, the challenge of a relic can be done by someone with little time, my friend and co-leader to my ls is on only 3~4 hours a day due to real life things. He has been working on a Relic Great Axe, and is making progress when possible. In the same time he takes to finish this, someone who plays FFXI all day in and out could probably do 5 or 6 relics if not more, the point is, he can do the same thing as them, and has a mostly fair chance. HNMs on the scale that is being spoken of are 21~24 hour spawns, meaning in a persons 3~4 hour day, they would have a small chance if from the moment they got on till they got off, they could see the NM, let alone claim, and fight it.

Really? 3-4 hours a day is enough to farm Dynamis daily and still have sometime to do a random VW or w/e.


I would rather the dev team focus on content 90% of us will experience and possibly enjoy, rather than content 10% of us claim we do/would enjoy, and 1~3% would actually get to experience.
Whose to say they can't make content for both? You're worried that the gear might be better? Oh well, some people are just meant to be better.

[Meyi]

No, it's true. There's only so many hours in a day, and if you're devoting many of them to a video game... then obviously there must be less activities going on in your life. Jobs usually take about 6~10 hours, sleep SHOULD take about 8 hours, and that's 18 out of the 24 hours right there. We should also include college, using the restroom, showering, making meals and eating them, exercise, and possibly raising a family/spending time with friends.

I don't want to waste 4 hours waiting for a monster to pop. Even if I get the claim. Even if I get the claim and the item I want drops. It's just a waste of time. I get antsy waiting for people to pop Abyssea monsters sometimes and usually resort to doing something else around me to keep myself occupied (like drawing or doing some push ups). Shouldn't have to do other activities while playing a game, because a game is meant to be fun and entertaining.

FFXI has never been a fast paced game... and it probably never will be. There will always be down time for many players who find their minds lulled with boredom as their group mates get their stuff prepared. But at the very least, I'd rather a gathering take 30 minutes than wait 4 hours to finally get a chance at action.

[Habu]

Yes a person who like you say is working, sleeps normal, goes to college, uses the restroom?, showers?, eats food?, exercises, and raises a family has no time for FFXI. I do six of those things and still have ample time to play the game as much as I want and can still have the freedom to walk outside whenever I please.

Again no one is making anyone do any event. If the game gets to busy for you, put the game down, or play when you can and make the most of it.

[zataz]

u know as i said i like timed spawns personally but why not do like they did e bow or bounding boots nm drops a rare ex one and a bcnm type thing drop a non rare ex one?

[Rosina]

Yes please leave the "have a life" argument out of this. It is a pointless rude statement that in reality has no basis. Everyone lives their life differently. So there is no cookie cutter "life". If you choose to work have a family do other things, that is your choice. We all have many likes and dislikes. I choose to play a video game most, as there is nothing in my town that is interesting to me, I choose to play a video game because watching TV is mindless, I choose to play ffxi because i get a better mental stimulation due to meeting people from all over the world. Rather then talk to the people where I love who are (no offence to anyone where i live) are white ghetto trash who smoke pot, drink beer, and claim to be living in "da hood". My town is impoverish, jobs are scarce and nothing here last long. So its either i do drugs for entertainment, or play a video game.

Having a life should be about things you enjoy doing... cuz not all of us wanna get married and have kids.

[Rosina]

u know as i said i like timed spawns personally but why not do like they did e bow or bounding boots nm drops a rare ex one and a bcnm type thing drop a non rare ex one?

they did that because of RMT was spam camping those nm so they made the NM drop a r/ex one and put the main one in the bcnm to try and prevent rmt from making gil.

[Rosina]

Yes a person who like you say is working, sleeps normal, goes to college, uses the restroom?, showers?, eats food?, exercises, and raises a family has no time for FFXI. I do six of those things and still have ample time to play the game as much as I want and can still have the freedom to walk outside whenever I please.

Again no one is making anyone do any event. If the game gets to busy for you, put the game down, or play when you can and make the most of it.

What you fail to get is people WANT to do said content...
And i play for 20 hours 7 days a week... and still can't be on for pop windowns... that should say something..

[Camiie]

Why must ALL content be availible to ALL people?

Because we all pay the same. Making content accessible to all who wish to try it is still no guarantee of winning or of getting the drops one wants.



So you are saying, to the people who CAN be on the game 4+ hours a day, that they can never excel over the people that play 2 hours a week?

But they do. They get things done faster.


Make content for everyone. Casual? go work on some af3 in abyss. Hardecore? Legion and Providence and neo-stuff.


LOL So, one event for the vast majority of players versus 4 events (since hardcores can do Abyssea too) for a small minority? You don't see the problem with this? I guess I can't blame you though. SE doesn't see the problem with it either.


Just because you cant play enough to get to these stages, no one can?

Just because I have other activities or obligations I shouldn't have a way to progress?

[Habu]

What you fail to get is people WANT to do said content...
And i play for 20 hours 7 days a week... and still can't be on for pop windowns... that should say something..

Are you suggesting that people want to do HNM? If you are then I'm on your side in this argument lol.

[Rosina]

Are you suggesting that people want to do HNM? If you are then I'm on your side in this argument lol.

Everyone wants to do every bit of content. BUT can't due to time issues. That is bad design. I want black belt, i've wanted black belt for over 5 years. I couldn't even get it because i was never awake during a pop window. Though i got lucky and a friend tried to help me and let me lot on the items and nearly for 1 of the three quest items. but due to family, i got disconnected before i could lot. That was the one of 2 times i actually saw the hnm turtle. I only seen behemoth once. and again I only play 20 hours a day.... so when a 20 hour 7 day a week person miss out on hnm due to time. That is pretty bad as i got more then enough time to try. Just pop windows was always when i actually did sleep.

[Habu]

If you actually played 20 hours a day it is mathematically impossible for you to only have seen one behemoth.

[Demon6324236]

If you actually played 20 hours a day it is mathematically impossible for you to only have seen one behemoth.

Would you sit at your PC watching the screen for 20 hours in the same area doing almost nothing in the game?

[Habu]

How does that have anything to do with what he's saying? Kings only had a 3 hour window, and it was easy to find out when that was. /sea all bd /sea all da /sea all vos. If you're playing 20 hours a day, maybe you should of allocated your time better and just paid 1M to buy an egg/tongue/beard.

[Demon6324236]

I'm getting really tired of your "people with a life" crap.

Let me rephrase then, people with a life which requires them to do things that prevent them from changing their life around a game. A NM that is up for grabs 1~2 seconds out of every 21~24 hours is not able to be worked around by these people. If you have a husband/wife, kids, a job, friends outside of the game, and do normal daily healthy functions such as sleep a proper amount, bathe, eat, and exercise, no, you will not have time for content that requires you to sit at your PC for 3 hours waiting for a creature to pop up on your screen.


Because people who are good at this game and devote a decent amount of time to it don't have lives right? Not at all, simply highly unlikely that you can fit in 3 hours in a busy life schedule to sit at your PC and watch as your character sits there waiting for a monster to pop up so you can fight it.

I've tried to remain somewhat light on the insults but it's obvious to everyone that you are a complete moron. Yes, I am a moron for wanting a game to be good and not restricted to where content is never played or participated in by many people, rather led to frustration by it instead.

So you can only do VW if you have an emp/relic, because the person can't go on a mage job? The person can't look at info before hand to learn how to setup a group for ANYTHING in the game? There is a plethora of strategies for every VW and even PW now. Only so many mages can go in VW, only if you have all your procs, only if you have proper skills can you land some, so these are still no safe bet. Looking up strats is fine, but you see, you forget a few things, for 1, VW requires temp items for the most part, you will be without these unless you make runs for lower tiers, I'm not sure how it is where your from but here, thats very slow and annoying. Also, looking up strats will tell you info about the NM and how to fight it, but being told something, and experiencing something, is far different. You can tell someone how to lead, this does not make them a leader, time and experience can make a person fit to lead, which is what you ask them to do.

You say emps are hard and you can only make them if you devote a lot of time to the game? No. Farm a little when you can and it will get done, if you're that worried about being able to do an even then you'll be willing to farm a little whenever you can to be useful in said events.
Emps are not hard, solo they may be a bit difficult but with a linkshell you can knock one out easy. However consider the example of someone with 4 hours to play, the starting trials are nothing of speed you can determine, they are slow no matter what you do. I refer to the lottery spawn NMs, at best in these 4 hours you will see 3 because they all have minimum respawns of 1 hour, at worst you may not see any at all from the time your on till you log off. Lets not forget that during this time you are completely bored which is what a game is supposed to prevent, by bringing fun & entertainment.

Really? 3-4 hours a day is enough to farm Dynamis daily and still have sometime to do a random VW or w/e. If you don't have to gear, are near where you plan to enter, are ready to go when you log on, and the VW afterwords is nearly full when you join it. Dyna takes 2 hours inside, before you go you may have to gear up, buy items, move to the location which you plan to enter at, and then enter, this should be between 5~20 minutes depending on number of steps, and location of which you enter/your distance from it. VW normally is not a 10 minute shout then you go, or at least not many I see, most are from empty to full about a hour of shouting or more, last few people can take 10~20 minutes if you are being picky on jobs, much harder to fit in.

Whose to say they can't make content for both? You're worried that the gear might be better? Oh well, some people are just meant to be better. That better attitude is what I have a problem with, not so much the gear itself. When people have something you don't, they tend to do what they can to flaunt that and show it off as if they are something special to be admired, which isn't actually the case. In most cases when this happens people get a large ego and try to act like they are amazing, and they can do whatever they please, they will talk down to you, and treat you like crap because they got a piece of gear most people don't. Any argument with them can be diverted by a "you only say that cause your jealous of my amazing gear!" comment. If they make content for both with equal rewards, and only for the people such as yourself to enjoy it, then so be it.


If you can not be content with it being made so everyone can get the same gear, then stop saying you want HNM, what you really want is gear only certain people can have, that way you can feel special like you are something to be admired, which you arnt.

[Habu]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wuSqJG5bIKE/TMwKVaXkenI/AAAAAAAAAwU/fxeyUO5S2JE/s1600/circular-reasoning11.jpg

[Demon6324236]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wuSqJG5bIKE/TMwKVaXkenI/AAAAAAAAAwU/fxeyUO5S2JE/s1600/circular-reasoning11.jpg

Circular reasoning doesn't work because you are providing nothing new to your argument, I have nothing to present or that needs be presented. I have countered your arguments, and you simply restate the old ones, as to which I restate the same responses, when you come up with something new, so will I. You will never win a disagreement about anything with me so long as your only idea is the same thing over and over again.

[Natenn]

People getting mad over just the thought of world spawns gives us hope, your tears give us power. Honestly though i loved outclaiming ppl just to watch them immediatly start name calling/accusing/having a fit in /s, its just a video game, i didn't turn into a baby when i lost claim, yet we got ppl here already whining when we are just speculating and giving opinions. And you wonder why keep pushing it? Because you keep resisting, its inevitable to say the least. As true a statement as any: There will always be conflict and jealousy in an MMO, no matter how much you cry or change it everyone can't be equal, same goes for the casual/non-casual gamer. The truly great MMOs embrace this fact, thats why the player base used to be 5x greater then what it is today, HNM era had the most bodies. HNMs gone = base plummeted.

[Habu]

Circular reasoning doesn't work because you are providing nothing new to your argument, I have nothing to present or that needs be presented. I have countered your arguments, and you simply restate the old ones, as to which I restate the same responses, when you come up with something new, so will I. You will never win a disagreement about anything with me so long as your only idea is the same thing over and over again.

You've been saying the same thing this entire thread, try again, casual.

[Demon6324236]

You've been saying the same thing this entire thread, try again, casual.

You presented 1st argument, I replied with my counter-argument. Since this you have have been saying the same thing, so I keep countering with the same thing, when you change, so will I. And again, describe casual.

[Demon6324236]

People getting mad over just the thought of world spawns gives us hope, your tears give us power. Honestly though i loved outclaiming ppl just to watch them immediatly start name calling/accusing/having a fit in /s, its just a video game, i didn't turn into a baby when i lost claim, yet we got ppl here already whining when we are just speculating and giving opinions. And you wonder why keep pushing it? Because you keep resisting, its inevitable to say the least. As true a statement as any: There will always be conflict and jealousy in an MMO, no matter how much you cry or change it everyone can't be equal, same goes for the casual/non-casual gamer. The truly great MMOs embrace this fact, thats why the player base used to be 5x greater then what it is today, HNM era had the most bodies. HNMs gone = base plummeted.

The fact that many people bitch and complain at the idea of it being reintroduced, means they are more likely to do it? Do you even read what you say?

[Habu]

ca·su·al/ˈkaZHo͞oəl/
Adjective:
Relaxed and unconcerned.
Noun:
A person who does something irregularly: "a number of casuals became regular customers".
Synonyms:
accidental - incidental - fortuitous - occasional

[Demon6324236]

ca·su·al/ˈkaZHo͞oəl/
Adjective:
Relaxed and unconcerned.
Noun:
A person who does something irregularly: "a number of casuals became regular customers".
Synonyms:
accidental - incidental - fortuitous - occasional

The fact that probably 70% of my day is spent on the game due to lack of job, I think its not something irregular, and I seem fairly concerned otherwise I would not bother replying. Tell me how am I a casual again?

[Waldrich]

I'm sorry all Hardcore players SE finally understood that Casual player pays the game, go hardcore bitch bored!
everyone that have a real job is that one who really pays the game, if you can play 24 hours, who is paying is ur father/mom...

[wish12oz]

Tell me how am I a casual again?

I define casual as people who don't run out and try to gear themselves the best way possible.
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Phoenix/Demonjustin
Looking at your FFXI AH profile, I see an 85 Almace, and BLU AF3+1 head/hands/feet. I consider you casual because I find this gear to be bad and I would not wear it. I would get the Almace to 90 and +2 the other stuff, then look at the gear as being 'average.' A hardcore player would have their 1 empyrean at 99, or have 2-3 90s at least IMO. They would also have full AF3+2 for any job they played since abyssea has been out for a long time. Leveling lots of stuff does not make you hardcore IMO.

But seriously, like I said in the other thread, 21+ hour repop NMs do NOT give hardcore players stuff to do or items other people cannot get. It gives those things to bots, and only to bots. You can stand in 1 spot waiting for a mob all day, but when it pops if you do not have the means to claim it, it doesn't matter how much you play. A grinding system like obtaining a relic by farming dynamis everyday would work to give hardcore players stuff casuals couldnt get (as long as you couldnt buy currency) So would a system like neo nyzul where you have to be able to clear X number of floors to even have a chance at getting the gear, and then you have to spam the event every possible chance in order to get the stuff. These are the types of systems I support. Being required to bot camp a 21+ hour repop mob for a drop is retarded and a step backward at this point in time.

[Natenn]

cant bot di or sw

[wish12oz]

cant bot di or sw

Theres a few programs that were used to bot DI and SW, and you used them all in conjuction with each. First thing you did was sit 1 mule/player in every zone they can pop in. Then you turn on programs 1 2 3 and 4. The first displayed a message in LS chat the moment DI or SW poped and said which zone, the second told you which direction the mob was from where you currently were, the third let you run at 800% movement speed, and the fourth would recast invisible whenever it wore off or would cast it/use prism powder if it poped in your zone, so other players couldnt see you moving at 800% movement speed.

Using this combination of things made it 100% impossible to lose claim on DI or SW unless it just happened to spawn on top of one of your opponents, which would happen maybe once every 3 months, or if they were also doing these things you could lose claim.

Want to try again?

EDIT: I would tell you the programs names and very specifically how they worked, but last time I did that my post got deleted by a mod for saying their names. So you dont get to know that information, sorry.

Also, the fact that you would even suggest those mobs were not botted shows how very little information on the subject of botting you actually have. Perhaps you should leave this discussion alone as you apparently dont know anything about it. The truth is there were very, very good bots for every single NM in the game that was worth anything.

[Rosina]

If you actually played 20 hours a day it is mathematically impossible for you to only have seen one behemoth.

ok let me help you understand something i can play 20 hours 7 days a week. from 7am-12am or longer. the typical hnm pop with in 21-24 hours since last kill. WHICH on garuda and lakshmi was typically around 3am-4am for the windows. which is about the time i go to bed. I hope this clears that up. It was rare to see an hnm in the day US time. If it did it was when i was leveling a low level job. I also had a friend try to help me get monk items free of charge. but most of the pop items was again 12am-5am. when i try to sleep. I also did dynamis, sky as well which took most of my time at night. Plus i did have a job in the early days.

also gear is subjective... labling ppl a casual based on gear that u see via a website is kinda well rude.

[Rosina]

I'm sorry all Hardcore players SE finally understood that Casual player pays the game, go hardcore bitch bored!
everyone that have a real job is that one who really pays the game, if you can play 24 hours, who is paying is ur father/mom...

honestly can the "get a life" bs bad time to pick apart job or who lack one US econamy is still in the shitter jobs are not easy to ome by.

[Habu]

ok let me help you understand something i can play 20 hours 7 days a week. from 7am-12am or longer. the typical hnm pop with in 21-24 hours since last kill. WHICH on garuda and lakshmi was typically around 3am-4am for the windows. which is about the time i go to bed. I hope this clears that up. It was rare to see an hnm in the day US time. If it did it was when i was leveling a low level job. I also had a friend try to help me get monk items free of charge. but most of the pop items was again 12am-5am. when i try to sleep. I also did dynamis, sky as well which took most of my time at night. Plus i did have a job in the early days.

also gear is subjective... labling ppl a casual based on gear that u see via a website is kinda well rude.

So after all of the maintenances that happened that reset HNM timers you still only saw one? LIke I said if you play from the times you do it's mathematically impossible to have only seen Behemoth, if you actually went out when windows were open. I guess you were just too busy leveling low level jobs to worry about a crucial piece for MNK.

Gear is only subjective past a certain point, a point that player hasn't crossed yet.

Here's some math for you 7am-12am =/= 20hours.

[Dragoy]

And wtf is Hordecore

A pro pos (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/members/8148-hordecore) ! !! !

[Meyi]

Again no one is making anyone do any event. If the game gets to busy for you, put the game down, or play when you can and make the most of it.

It's true, nobody is making anyone do any event. And it's also true that I do put the game down when life gets too hectic -- I've taken many breaks, each consisting of at least a month. :) Two breaks ago was a six month break, actually. It happens.

What I'm saying is that my enjoyment of a game shouldn't be compromised because of other people. Sounds ironic, I know, because in a sense I'm imposing on your entertainment. But what I'm trying to say is that I really enjoy obtaining the best gear , spells, and skill that I can. To have something unobtainable is very frustrating and in the end ruins my desire to play the game. I've already played six or seven years of this pre-Abyssea. To finally have a chance at having the best of gear while also having fun has truly excited me and rejuvenated my spirits. To have that return to the old way would more than likely be the final nail.

Now, if you want a monster that actually takes skill, concentration, and team work, I'm all for that! I'd love to have a skill challenging monster. Some kind of monster that challenges a person to think of new ways to play their job to the max while consistently changing, never staying too static to let cookie cutter parties take it down, would be the most exciting thing to enter this game. But I can assure you, timed monsters are not this challenge. They're a time sink, and they're cumbersome for people who don't have the time. It's not as if people who do have the time are more skilled... they're just fortunate to have the time.


Yes please leave the "have a life" argument out of this. (...) So its either i do drugs for entertainment, or play a video game.

Having a life should be about things you enjoy doing... cuz not all of us wanna get married and have kids.


Snipped this quote short just so nobody would have to scroll through it. I agree Rosina. It's much better to play a video game than get high (but I'm sure you already know how many players actually do both at the same time). I'm not saying anyone should "have a life"; as long as a human is breathing, they're living. Preferably they're enjoying their environment and situation, but they are living regardless.

What I'm saying is that not everyone has the time to play the game. Time does not equate to life. Things in my life prevent me from being on the game often, yes, but that's because of time restraints.


Because we all pay the same. Making content accessible to all who wish to try it is still no guarantee of winning or of getting the drops one wants.
(...)
Just because I have other activities or obligations I shouldn't have a way to progress?

Oh God Camiie I love you. ;w;

It'd be interesting if Square Enix charged a player based on their play time rather than a static fee. If that was the case then I'd be all for more hours equating to more activities.


its just a video game

Exactly. At the end of the day, none of the activities in the game actually matter.


The truly great MMOs embrace this fact, thats why the player base used to be 5x greater then what it is today, HNM era had the most bodies. HNMs gone = base plummeted.

No, I think it's because all those bodies got banned for botting. :)

Also if I recall correctly, didn't the first server merge happen before Abyssea came out? I'm pretty sure I was on Bismarck before I set foot in Abyssea. Wouldn't have had to server merge if all those HNMs kept the players playing, hmmm?

[Glamdring]

I'm down with the OP. Make all new NMs force pop.

As to the morons who think that means you can't have world NMs... what are you smoking and where can i find some to sell because I know alot of "wake 'n bakes" who'd love some of it. All you do is make the pop item have an insanely stupid drop rate so that a full HNMLS trying full-time for a week will only get 1 on average. The only difference is you can make an appointment to use it instead of waiting on a random call at 4:30 am to say "___ is up".

Besides, I used to beat those old HNMs at the 75 cap with PUGs, so how good did you really have to be? Following a cookie-cutter strat to the letter doesn't make you good, it just proves you can follow a map from Point A to Point B. Going in without having ever seen it in action and figuring out how to beat it on the fly with a less than ideal job mix, well that points in the direction of good, but we're still talking about a video game. Getting away with playing it on your RL job for 9+ years without ever coughing up a fee or getting caught, THAT means you're good. Alas, my poor checking account sacrificed to grind-killing bunnies...

[Demon6324236]

I define casual as people who don't run out and try to gear themselves the best way possible.

My RDM is about the only job I care enough about gearing to its fullest. If you saw how much RDM gear I actually have and use in all you might understand why its the only job I do that with, it takes to much room, lately I have been gearing up my DRK as well and that 1 extra job has already started to make it hard for me to have room for things.


Looking at your FFXI AH profile, I see an 85 Almace, and BLU AF3+1 head/hands/feet.

Almace is 85 & 25/75 Horns, I normally get them when someone in my ls needs seals from DK, I go WAR with their seal party, kill DK a few times, get a brew, and knock em out. Unlike many people I do not have a ls for much, mine is mainly a social ls, I made it back when I had little time to play and now don't really want to leave it, alot of good friends there I probably wouldn't talk to much if I was gone.


I would get the Almace to 90 and +2 the other stuff, then look at the gear as being 'average.'

I use BLU as a proc job in VW since its very easy to get parties with, probably not worth the bother of +2ing to me. Almace is on its way to being 90 whenever I feel like picking up the pace and doing it.


A hardcore player would have their 1 empyrean at 99, or have 2-3 90s at least IMO.

I see 1500 plates as stupid and would rather fund my Excalibur a little more seeing as I am about 75% done with it. Other emps would be nice, again, social ls so I don't get alot of help on those, and unlike other people I am not particularly fond of dualboxing. Leveling has nothing to do with anything else, I could make a new character today and get every job unlocked on the new character as well as every job to 99 in a month or less I'm sure.



As for your 2nd part, I like things like Relics in general, as I said before, someone with little time can make 1, someone who plays the game all day everyday can make 1, just 1 person makes it faster than the other. This means both player groups can access the content, obtain the same rewards in the end, the "Hardcore" person keeps their edge, and all is good for everyone.

[Habu]

Excuses from a casual trying not to be so casual while casually being casual.

[Demon6324236]

Excuses from a casual trying not to be so casual while casually being casual.

Tell yourself what you like, I really don't give a damn at this point.

[Rosina]

So after all of the maintenances that happened that reset HNM timers you still only saw one? LIke I said if you play from the times you do it's mathematically impossible to have only seen Behemoth, if you actually went out when windows were open. I guess you were just too busy leveling low level jobs to worry about a crucial piece for MNK.

Gear is only subjective past a certain point, a point that player hasn't crossed yet.

Here's some math for you 7am-12am =/= 20hours.

cuz sorry i'm not gona check ever hour on the hour for a hnm they may or may not be there. 7am-12am was my typical play time. I said i am able to play 20 hrs a day. gear is and will always be subject in rpg. Its how they work. different gear for different stuff based on how u wished to play jobs.

i had friends helping me get my mnk items and was on call when windows were up. And when when i could if I wasn't asleep. in most cases i was on my was to bed when a window was up. And i rather not stay up.

[Habu]

If you want something bad enough that you're complaining about it then maybe you should put some effort into actually trying to get said item.

[Camiie]

I define casual as people who don't run out and try to gear themselves the best way possible.
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Phoenix/Demonjustin
Looking at your FFXI AH profile, I see an 85 Almace, and BLU AF3+1 head/hands/feet. I consider you casual because I find this gear to be bad and I would not wear it. I would get the Almace to 90 and +2 the other stuff, then look at the gear as being 'average.' A hardcore player would have their 1 empyrean at 99, or have 2-3 90s at least IMO. They would also have full AF3+2 for any job they played since abyssea has been out for a long time. Leveling lots of stuff does not make you hardcore IMO.


Have you considered that what you're seeing is a work in progress? Maybe he's not done yet.

Oh but wait, every job and every gearset is always a work in progress. Even yours. As long as SE continues to produce new gear you won't always be fully equipped in BiS gear yourself. If you're a piece or two or three behind someone else does that make you casual? Does it make you casual compared to the person who's got the newest BiS before you?

He may be casual. He may not be. He may be on a newly leveled job in the process of gearing up. Was there a time on any of your jobs where you may have been using +1 gear and an 85 relic/mythic/empyrean or did you somehow skip straight to AF3+2 and level 90+ weapons?

[saevel]

I define casual as people who don't run out and try to gear themselves the best way possible.
So where exactly would I fall in at on your list...

www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Saevel

I consider myself a "casual" due to my playtime. Between my career, which I desire vertical movement in, and my GF whom I will most likely marry, that doesn't leave much time to sit around doing stuff. I play between 12 and 14 hours per week which is concentrated on the weekends. Something like world spawed NM's is completely out of the question for myself and anyone else who has a job + social life. There simply isn't enough time in the day to do all those things and still live in the real world.

[wish12oz]

The funniest part about this thread, is people who take being called casual as an insult.

[Demon6324236]

The funniest part about this thread, is people who take being called casual as an insult.

No it is being used as a comment to hurt my argument, as such I am trying to avoid the title I don't think I even fit for that reason. If I'm a casual it can be claimed I have no idea what hardcore players want, so my argument is hurt. If I am in fact a hardcore player but this is said, people will still take it as a reason my argument is less valid.

[Habu]

They don't like being called casuals because deep down they wish they were hardcore.

[Rosina]

If you want something bad enough that you're complaining about it then maybe you should put some effort into actually trying to get said item.

sorry thats silly, stay up 24 hors waiting foir hnm for anb item that has a 30% drop does not equal effort. Killing a mob with good stratagy is effort. It takes no skill to wait.... it takes skill to fight.
And no items in any mmo is not worth loss of sleep that makes me have panic attacks or getting sick. I infact did make effort to go when i could most of the time item didn't drop. and i was never up around behemoth or neiihogg (w/e it was) cuz i was asleep in pop windows. As for maint resets. thats if ur lucky to get update done in time based on net speed/congestion. Or are awake and had logged off in said zone.

I had to solo my purple and brown belt... and moloburgur is a 24 hr pop in ord cave... I think i did more then mt fair share at putting effort into getting black belt...

[Habu]

omg I have to put effort into getting the best belt for mnk even at 99, qq.

[Rosina]

They don't like being called casuals because deep down they wish they were hardcore.

you give hardcore ppl a bad name
real hardcore gamers don;t care much on who is hardcore or casual they out effort in the game and focus on fun.
they don't insult ppl with limited play time.

[Rekin]

In the upcoming expansion they plan to make instanced dungeons. Might not be that much of a stretch to see them do that for the new HNMs. Everyone is happy and gets to die equally!

@Habu

How about you go play a game that requires actual skill to beat others? I believe there is a whole genre... starts with an f... or right fighting games. Why don't you go and be hardcore over there, you'll get all the competition you want and then some. And if fighting games don't fit your idea of hardcore player, then have fun over in ranked matches on LoL plenty of hardcore players to be found there. Still not to your tastes? then how about an action game, Monster hunter is pretty hardcore, Dark souls also comes to mind.

[Rosina]

omg I have to put effort into getting the best belt for mnk even at 99, qq.

dude ur being a troll at this point and can be reported on. I put more effort into ffxi them most ppl realise. I bust my butt solo-ing most anything I need while helping others. I rarely ask for help. every peice of gear i got, i got by myself. with little to no help. And when i do ask for help, I don't ask for stuff to be done for me. Heck i don't even leech my levels or do burn pts.
i went during times i could make. But in the enjd black belt isd just data in a computer of a mmorpg. Once i log off the game it don't matter.

[Rekin]

Rosina I don't think he has taken this topic seriously at all. He's yet to come up with a good reason why a company would want to make content for a small minority of players.

[Rosina]

Rosina I don't think he has taken this topic seriously at all. He's yet to come up with a good reason why a company would want to make content for a small minority of players.

Ya i know lol just dislike having my 7 years of playing ffxi be spit on by a guy who don't know what being a true hardcore is.

[Habu]

In the upcoming expansion they plan to make instanced dungeons. Might not be that much of a stretch to see them do that for the new HNMs. Everyone is happy and gets to die equally!

@Habu

How about you go play a game that requires actual skill to beat others? I believe there is a whole genre... starts with an f... or right fighting games. Why don't you go and be hardcore over there, you'll get all the competition you want and then some. And if fighting games don't fit your idea of hardcore player, then have fun over in ranked matches on LoL plenty of hardcore players to be found there. Still not to your tastes? then how about an action game, Monster hunter is pretty hardcore, Dark souls also comes to mind.

I do play FPS TPS and I enjoy hearing others cry on there just as much as I do on here.

[Rosina]

I do play FPS TPS and I enjoy hearing others cry on there just as much as I do on here.

i figured ur one of those ppl... fps ppl have no idea what skill or hardcore is all they know is shoting ppl =points.
in reality no one here is crying. Just because no one want 24 hr nms don't mean we are not crying for "easymode" content. time soend waiting for somethingis npt putting in effort. Cuz in reality most of the time ur AFK doing other stuff and not actively playing. (well i stated infront of my tv outside food and restroom while hunting moloburger for 24hrs. Now this was to get tod I had to get up @ 6am on a work day to claim the fker.

Asking for content to be avalable at DECENT times is not asking to be handed stuff.
how about this... WHY time based mobs fun? how are time based mob hunt putting in effort? any reply outside habu out side of what i'm asking can be seen as a troll reply and can easily report u for the insulting way you've been posting.

[Demon6324236]

They don't like being called casuals because deep down they wish they were hardcore.

If being hardcore means being like you... I would rather delete my account.

[Demon6324236]

I do play FPS TPS and I enjoy hearing others cry on there just as much as I do on here.

So you take pleasure in other peoples misery, no wonder you want this to come back.

[Rosina]

So you take pleasure in other peoples misery, no wonder you want this to come back.

in honestly ppl rarely got upset @ claim wars unless it was an abvious bot (which ya u can point out a bot easy by lack of gear, being under lvled and being a tarutaru.) which is a banable offence. Only time i sawdrama over an hnm is when my dynamis LS tried doing hnm and 2 of our members helped their hnm LS claim it for them. but really no one was all that upset... its just a game after all.

[Habu]

If being hardcore means being like you... I would rather delete my account.

By all means

[Shadowsong]

Because we all pay the same. Making content accessible to all who wish to try it is still no guarantee of winning or of getting the drops one wants.
But they do. They get things done faster.
LOL So, one event for the vast majority of players versus 4 events (since hardcores can do Abyssea too) for a small minority? You don't see the problem with this? I guess I can't blame you though. SE doesn't see the problem with it either.
Just because I have other activities or obligations I shouldn't have a way to progress?

Why must you take EVERYTHING to the most extreme?
Also the comment about people who play more often doing things "faster" literally makes no sense. Ill let you figure out why

[Shadowsong]

So you take pleasure in other peoples misery, no wonder you want this to come back.

Hey genius, can you explain to me why adding HNMs would mean they DONT add more community friendly options? Why is it one or the other?

[Demon6324236]

Hey genius, can you explain to me why adding HNMs would mean they DONT add more community friendly options? Why is it one or the other?

If they add HNM there is a 99% chance they will drop unique gear, this is the problem. SE has a tendency to add other methods of obtaining popular items such as BCNMs once RMTing or monopolizing of these HNMs starts to happen. This means there is a delay, yet another of my problems. Content should not be made that few people get to experience, it is a foolish investment. People already complain about how fast content we have been getting dies, isn't rewarding, or is just plain boring, this is why I think all content should be available to everyone, better longevity for the game, and more for people to do in the game. When you focus an entire piece of content on a small group of people wanting it, only 500 people will enjoy it, when if they spent them same time on something else but for everyone, 5000 people could have enjoyed it.

[Demon6324236]

Why must you take EVERYTHING to the most extreme?
Also the comment about people who play more often doing things "faster" literally makes no sense. Ill let you figure out why

Play the game 3 days a week, 4 hours a day, and make a relic, then play all day every day, and make a relic, I can assure you, if you are trying to make it, you will make the 2nd one in about a 4th of the time or faster. You can do things in less time if you play more because you will be playing more often, meaning more getting done in this larger amount of time. Its not that hard to figure out. The only problem with it is that if you go to fast with it you will run out of content to do, one problem the game is having due to DoA content.

[FrankReynolds]

Why must you take EVERYTHING to the most extreme?
Also the comment about people who play more often doing things "faster" literally makes no sense. Ill let you figure out why

You probably don't understand why people who work harder than you get paid more either. It's impossible to win an argument with an insane person, so I'll just laugh at you from here on out.



Hey genius, can you explain to me why adding HNMs would mean they DONT add more community friendly options? Why is it one or the other?

Because they already have HNM that drop stuff that you can get through other means and you don't do them. Why would they add more stuff that you won't do?

[Shadowsong]

Jeez not everything people talk about is relics and mythics

[Demon6324236]

Jeez not everything people talk about is relics and mythics

No, they are simply examples of content things that can be completed by everyone, only people with less time, will finish slower. Another example is seals, if you have more time, you can do seal parties back to back, and make sure you finish runs, where as with less time you might get 5/8 seals, then run out of time. You might do the same with +2 NMs, or with Emps, you can get KIs but sometimes it takes so long you never actually finish. Put these same people in the place with a timed HNM and they will do 1 of 3 things.

1:Never see the NM spawn, losing all of their little time they had by sitting in a spot waiting. 2:See the NM pop, however it is claimed before their party gets to it, losing their time once again. or 3:Get lucky enough to actually claim the NM, and be there when it pops.

The reason Relics, Mythics, Emps, seals, and things like them are more fair is because they are all progressive, you can do it over time, however HNMs are sudden, and on the spot. If you miss a HNM you get nothing, if you don't finish a seal party, or +2s, you get progress toward the final goal.

[Camiie]

Why must you take EVERYTHING to the most extreme?
Also the comment about people who play more often doing things "faster" literally makes no sense. Ill let you figure out why

Please tell me what I was taking to the most extreme. For your benefit, I'll amend "faster" to "sooner." When you play more per day you get things done sooner. You'll be done with new content in a month where a more casual player would take several months to a year to make the same progress. You're the first kid on the block with the cool new toy. That's your reward for playing more per day.


Hey genius, can you explain to me why adding HNMs would mean they DONT add more community friendly options? Why is it one or the other?

You understand they have rather limited manpower and resources these days don't you? The time they spend working on new HNM for the relative few people who want to do it is time they could spend working on content a larger number of people could enjoy.

[Verytus]

Hey guys,

I'm glad to see such a large thread dedicated to discussing the new expansion and I there are a lot of great points being made. While we value your opinions and encourage discussion though, I must ask you to refrain from personal attacks and inappropriate comments, or else we may have to lock the thread. I hope this discussion can remain productive and enjoyable for everyone.

Thank you.

[Winrie]

Hey guys,

I'm glad to see such a large thread dedicated to discussing the new expansion and I there are a lot of great points being made. While we value your opinions and encourage discussion though, I must ask you to refrain from personal attacks and inappropriate comments, or else we may have to lock the thread. I hope this discussion can remain productive and enjoyable for everyone.

Thank you.

YEH BE NICE

[Nala]

we're not the ones condescendingly calling people casuals for disagreeing with your half baked ideas of what good content may be.

[wish12oz]

I do play FPS TPS and I enjoy hearing others cry on there just as much as I do on here.

Do they cry louder than the people who get their gil stolen by "a friend" or do they not cry that loud?


Also:
Hi, I'm Kaerin, and I'm a casual.

[Rosina]

I have a question to those in favor of 24-48 hr+ mob spawn also known as hnm? How do they add to the game? How are they fun? What do they actually add to the game? And why do you guys want it?

I'm far from a casual player and casual gamer. I always put effort in to the things I do. Even going to the most extremes as to stay up 24hrs to get basic stuff. But really, I don't find staying up that long fun. I get sick, I get irritable, and my family more or less insults my gaming habits.

Items in this or any game are just digital property and in no way effect your real life outside a maybe happiness high that you have for maybe a week tops. Most of my memories of ffxi from past to present has always been about playing with my friends and meeting people. None are about drops I've gotten. Even such as Bounding Boots which I got after 5 years of hunting.

Maybe this is due inpart that i'm not, nor ever been one for material possessions. I tend to recall fondly of the friends i was with rather the item i've gotten

[Phogg]

I do play FPS TPS and I enjoy hearing others cry on there just as much as I do on here.

Maybe its time to ignore the self-professed sociopath.

[Rosina]

Maybe its time to ignore the self-professed sociopath.

already been doing that.

[Natenn]

Nothing beats the feeling of killing an HNM most ppl would be lucky to even see, thats why its good. Titles with meaning yes please.

[Krashport]

I have a question to those in favor of 24-48 hr+ mob spawn also known as hnm? How do they add to the game? How are they fun? What do they actually add to the game? And why do you guys want it?

I'm far from a casual player and casual gamer. I always put effort in to the things I do. Even going to the most extremes as to stay up 24hrs to get basic stuff. But really, I don't find staying up that long fun. I get sick, I get irritable, and my family more or less insults my gaming habits.




Casual, is how much time a person wants/has to invest into said "Video Game" with how much effort person puts in.
Hardcore, is how much time a person wants/needs to invest into said "Video Game" with how much effort person puts in.

Casual and Hardcore is not a playing "style" they're two different "terms" Used to differentiate the time-frame investing/invested into doing something. None of these terms are right or wrong, it all comes down to personal preference.

[Camiie]

Nothing beats the feeling of killing an HNM most ppl would be lucky to even see, thats why its good. Titles with meaning yes please.

If you want titles with meaning try becoming a doctor, a military officer, a government official, or a legendary rock star. What you do in FFXI is nice and all, but it doesn't really mean a lot no matter how hard or rare it is.

[Rosina]

@ krashport...
Umm, I have no idea why you posted why you posted. I have a feeling you didn't understand that portion of my post. I know the different between the two as in "hardcore" and "casual" and in no way was saying "casual" do not put effort into their playing.

Casual player: enjoys gaming just doesn't play very often.
Casual gamer: Doesn't really play video games, maybe one or two in their lives. (see WoW community)

The refernce I was putting in is self proclaim "casual players" feel the "hard core" are the ones who want these timed based mob aka hnm. I'm just trying to establish I'm a "hard core player" who doesn't want said stuff.
Also, those are two different sentences. Which is a strong indication of two different points. stating that 1) i can play often and 2) i put effort in my character.

[Rosina]

Nothing beats the feeling of killing an HNM most ppl would be lucky to even see, thats why its good. Titles with meaning yes please.

That isn't a good enough reason to want it. Try actually thinking about what I posted and type a well thought out. Saying you want it because you want it doesn't serve to help your cause. If you wanted it bad enough you should come up with a good reason.

And also, what you propose isn't good for the community since everyone is paying to have this content. What your asking for is a waste to their money. Why put money into something you won't use or see?

[Waldrich]

Honestly new players > old players, imo.
Old players want more time sink, we already have enough time sink though >.>

we need more hard fights, yes, we all agree about that, but we all need to understand the game actually need to have more players, only 5-10% (max.) of the players into a server are hardcore players, but like I told before Casual players will always be 50%+++ of the servers, then they really pays the game, and Casual players will always envy Hardcore players cause they're hardcore, not everyone can keep "THE" hardcore way.

then you'll always have all gears that most of players ever dreamed to have and HQ'd.

We should know by now SE is planning to add a system that will create some sense of accomplishment, since you'll be able to increase its difficult in order to increase its drop rate.

[Rosina]

I just want content to do... that it. I care not for a reward i may or may not get.

I just don't see how making hnm type content once a day/week/mnth etc etc is good for the game or the community. That only allowes a small portion of each server able to do said content. Now this is actually doing the content... not about the reward you may or may not get because that is even fewer numbers in the community.

this is how hnm worked in ffxi back in 2004-2006. (when hnm was the thing)

18-36 people would stand around various zone from each hnm linkshell on each server. say about 4 hnmLS were present (thats 18x4-36x4.) 1 LS gets clam and fight the hnm maybe spwaming between 2 groups or swaping in and out of ppl. HNM dies... maybe 1-4 ppl actually get rewarded. so that is 1-4 ppl out of a large large group. (so reward should be a non issue since so few get rewarded each time)

I think most here just want to see the content their money goes into making it. I know I do.

[Rosina]

(text limit)

So reward aside... as my question has nothing to do wuth the reward but just of the content.

how is making hnm type content and setting it to a cool down to be once a day/week/mnth/year a good thing for the community? How is the making the game any more fun? People want to log into an mmo and have a massive list to do with friends. Having content be that limiting seems to be against the ideal of this.

[Tyrion]

in honestly ppl rarely got upset @ claim wars unless it was an abvious bot (which ya u can point out a bot easy by lack of gear, being under lvled and being a tarutaru.) which is a banable offence. Only time i sawdrama over an hnm is when my dynamis LS tried doing hnm and 2 of our members helped their hnm LS claim it for them. but really no one was all that upset... its just a game after all.

Ok you claim that you only ever got to see one behemoth and that even though you played 20 hours a day you always missed the windows, but here you are claiming you know the ins and outs of HNM's. Which is it?

[Rosina]

Ok you claim that you only ever got to see one behemoth and that even though you played 20 hours a day you always missed the windows, but here you are claiming you know the ins and outs of HNM's. Which is it?

Just because I missed windows, doesn't mean I am ignorent to the inner workings...

You do realise hnm used to pop with in 24 hour cool downs based on last kill. In my experience outside server resets... said hnm typically poped around 12am-5am. That is how i missed spawn times i was sleeping, or doing sky or dynamis around then.

But in reality what does my missing spawns have anything to do with allowing or suggesting content be on such a large cool down timer?

[Trisscar]

They don't like being called casuals because deep down they wish they were hardcore.

Don't you just wish? I consider elitists/hardcores to be worse than outright noobs.

But hey let me relate a story of when I wasn't much better than a newbie myself: The year was 2006, and it was scarcely six months after I first started playing FFxi. My shell leader at the time asked me if I was interested in becoming useful for HNM runs, said they would spouncer my development (or something to that effect). Me, being the skeptical newbie that I was, asked them what a HNM was.

They explained it to me as monsters the size of buildings that can ruin your day if everyone wasn't On the same page. I must admit that I got stoked. Huge monsters and large groups of people aligning to fight against an unimaginable horror?! That's what I started to play FFxi for!

...

And then the other shoe dropped. He explained to me that the monsters in question only spawned about once every real time week. And then he explained that the gear the mobs dropped wasn't significantly better than anything outside of HNMs and they had terrible drop rates for what you had to do to get them.

At that point I heard enough. I turned them down expressing my disbelief that anyone would waste their time camping the HNM. It was a terrible idea then. It a worse one now.

[Dazusu]

If you want titles with meaning try becoming a doctor, a military officer, a government official, or a legendary rock star. What you do in FFXI is nice and all, but it doesn't really mean a lot no matter how hard or rare it is.

I thought this was funny.

[Habu]

So everyone here believes that the pop system for Behe/Faf/Ada was a good idea and more people are more likely to get what they want from said mobs? Righttttt

[Trisscar]

So everyone here believes that the pop system for Behe/Faf/Ada was a good idea and more people are more likely to get what they want from said mobs? Righttttt

Stop being contrarian For a moment and look at the bigger picture will you?

Before SE changed the way the three kings spawned pretty much no one camped them. I've seen more people camp and fight those three in the past month than the entire year before the change. Why? Because the old system was a terrible, horrible, moronic design. The players knew it, SE knew it, everyone knew it.

[Habu]

Oh because that's not going against the argument of "omg people only claimed because they botted" now it's "no one even camped them". Which is it? People complain about drops being low % oh cool now you have to get a KS99 orb, do that fight, go spawn the NQ, hope it drops the HQ, then hope that HQ drops the item you want. ftfy

[Tunasushi]

Habu,, im all for new world nms but you're an embarrasment.

You're the one who got this thread going with your really stupid coments.

Just be quiet and stop feeding the fire. CASUALS/WHINERS scream louder, even louder than an obnoxious brat like yourself..

You single-handedly turned an irrelevant thread to a screaming match between yourself and a bunch of whiners.

/disgusted

[Habu]

Anyone who does /disgusted or any other emote outside of the game probably has the intelligence and/or mindset of a 12 year old.

[Tunasushi]

Anyone who does /disgusted or any other emote outside of the game probably has the intelligence and/or mindset of a 12 year old.


dude you've been trying to out-argue people about game pixel mobs when you're clrealy out numbered by about 1:10 ratio and you've PERSONALLY ruined about 3 threads and started flame wars in two...

If you support world hnms why do you keep bumping this thread and giving it more hits?... You really think if you say the same thing enough times arguing with same people (although it's never the same cause you're outnumbered) is going to make some kind of difference?

It's mind boggling you could comment on anyones maturity or intelligence level.


You should know by now SE isn't listening to these whiners or cares about them, so idk what you're trying to prove. As I said in the other thread, these same people will never see neo nyzul gear, legion gear and probably nothing outside abys/vw gear.

[Habu]

You really think I'm taking any of this seriously? ANY of it? I already know nothing will change people's minds on this forum. There's no point in trying. So please continue telling me thing I already know.

Why do I do it? Because it's funny to watch people completely flip their lid.

[Trisscar]

Oh because that's not going against the argument of "omg people only claimed because they botted" now it's "no one even camped them". Which is it?

It's both, you reading impaired half wit.

Back when HNM were still all the craze you had to compete against bots, which made the already frustrating experience even more frustrating. And while I doubt it was as terrible as many of the more grizzled veterans make it out to be (people do love to over dramaticsize things), it was probably a considerable impediment.

And even before the advent of Aby, the number of people who camped these HNM was so low as to be neglible. Them changing the spawn conditions changed all that.



People complain about drops being low % oh cool now you have to get a KS99 orb, do that fight, go spawn the NQ, hope it drops the HQ, then hope that HQ drops the item you want. ftfy

Right then, now I know you're just trolling. Because everyone knows that the trophy items went from %100 drop to somewhere between less than uncommon and more than rare.

[Trisscar]

You should know by now SE isn't listening to these whiners or cares about them, so idk what you're trying to prove. As I said in the other thread, these same people will never see neo nyzul gear, legion gear and probably nothing outside abys/vw gear.

As for you, saying that people aren't skilled for not having neo nyzule/legion gear.. Really? Those two events are some of the least skill oriented events to reward ratio of all time.

[wish12oz]

You should know by now SE isn't listening to these whiners or cares about them, so idk what you're trying to prove. As I said in the other thread, these same people will never see neo nyzul gear, legion gear and probably nothing outside abys/vw gear.

Hi, my name is Kaerin, and Im a casual, and I hate world spawns, and I hate bots.

Today the LS I'm second in charge of did the final chamber in Legion, for the first time, our 5th run ever, and 75% of the LS is new, and we timed out right after Botulus and Ig spawned. Very few people have managed to defeat either of these mobs yet, and we would of killed one of them, if the ironclad didnt screw us over and kill our embrava mule so we didnt have that buff for the last mob in wave 2 or any of wave 3. I'm 15/15 on neo-nyzul gear, and I'm sure I finished this event before you. I'm responsible for creating the current 'best WAR TP set,' and I was probably the first person to have it, second at worst. Back in 2004/5/6 my LS was #1 on the BG Big Kills list, and I've always been better at this game than crap tier players who need to rely on bots and bad spawn mechanics to win at FFXI. Your attempt to degrade my opinion by calling everyone who is against world spawns a noob was a good try, but the truth is that I'm better than you at this game and I always have been.

[Habu]

If you read BG and pay attention to the Legion thread then you would know that they have been beat.

[Trisscar]

Hi, my name is Kaerin, and Im a casual, and I hate world spawns, and I hate bots.

Today the LS I'm second in charge of did the final chamber in Legion, for the first time, our 5th run ever, and 75% of the LS is new, and we timed out right after Botulus and Ig spawned. As far as I know, no one has managed to defeat either of these mobs yet, and we would of killed one of them, if the ironclad didnt screw us over and kill our embrava mule so we didnt have that buff for the last mob in wave 2 or any of wave 3. I'm 15/15 on neo-nyzul gear, and I'm sure I finished this event before you. I'm responsible for creating the current 'best WAR TP set,' and I was probably the first person to have it, second at worst. Back in 2004/5 my LS was #1 on the BG Big Kills list, and I've always been better at this game than crap tier players who need to rely on bots and bad spawn mechanics to win at FFXI. Your attempt to degrade my opinion by calling everyone who is against world spawns a noob was a good try, but the truth is that I'm better than you at this game and I always have been.

[Insert slow clap here]I wish I were as accomplished.

[wish12oz]

If you read BG and pay attention to the Legion thread then you would know that they have been beat.

I dont pay attention, lol. But I edited it.

[Habu]

18 or 36 people?

[wish12oz]

18 or 36 people?

18 (we brought 14 people, 4 mules)
http://www.twitch.tv/wish12oz/b/324173715
Skip to 10~ minutes in.

[Demon6324236]

You should know by now SE isn't listening to these whiners or cares about them, so idk what you're trying to prove. As I said in the other thread, these same people will never see neo nyzul gear, legion gear and probably nothing outside abys/vw gear.

Doubt SE is spending any more time paying attention to the minority of people wanting HNMs vs the majority of people not wanting them. Also Neo-Events & Legion make no point, as many of the people opposing your idea are people who do these events, win these events, and get gear to walk away with from these events.

[wish12oz]

I decided this was to cruel, so I deleted it.

[Habu]

If you want a few tips that might help your runs out let me know. For the most part is was spot on.

[Trisscar]

If you want a few tips that might help your runs out let me know. For the most part is was spot on.

I would like to hear any relevant advice, too. The last time my shell went to Legion we just barely scraped on by with a win, with 5 seconds to spare.

[Habu]

What chamber/chambers and what's your setup?