No Timed Pop Notorious Monsters In New Expansion

[Trisscar]

What chamber/chambers and what's your setup?
Tier 1 chambers (we're trying to get a better feel for it before committing to higher tiers). Last time we went it was the land kings (Behemoth/Adamantoise/Wyrm) chamber. Three Paladins (with one kitting Adamantoise) and the rest mages, mainly Summoner and Black Mage, mana burning it with a couple support mages to assist the tanks (I was on White Mage, assisting the kite), full alliance. We go in, kill it from Behemoth, to Wyrm, to Adamantoise.

It starts out okay, but it gets hairy towards the middle. It doesn't get any better from there. So far we have had only one victory in this chamber.

As for the other two chambers I haven't been on for them but from what I have gathered it has not gone much better. Le sigh, and here I was hoping for an opportunity to learn Tourbillion. Just as well I suppose, the Khimeria probably doesn't even use it knowing my luck.

[Habu]

Hall of Muru:
Wave 1: Sandworm (CS) > Ixion (PD) > Amph
Wave 2: Sandworm (PD) > Ixion (PD) > Amph (PD)
Wave 3: Iron Giant (PD) >

for this can switch out anything for a RDm for CS

Hall of Ki:
Wave 1: Hydra > Cerb > Khim (PD)
Wave 2: Hydra (PD) > Cerb > Khim (PD)
Wave 3: Mantis (PD) >

Ideal Setup:
DDx5 WHM
SMN x5 COR
PLD SCH THF BRD CORx2 (1 COR + BRD rotated into main DD party)

Hall of An:
Wave 1: Behe + Ada (BLMs on Ada) > Jorm
Wave 2: Zilant (PD) > Behe (PD) > Tortoise (BLMs on from start probably)
Wave 3: Harpy (PD) >

Ideal setup: DDx3 WHM COR BRD
SMN x3 BLM x2 DD x1
PLD x2 WHM SCH RNG BLM x1

[Trisscar]

Hall of Muru:
Wave 1: Sandworm (CS) > Ixion (PD) > Amph
Wave 2: Sandworm (PD) > Ixion (PD) > Amph (PD)
Wave 3: Iron Giant (PD) >

for this can switch out anything for a RDm for CS

Hall of Ki:
Wave 1: Hydra > Cerb > Khim (PD)
Wave 2: Hydra (PD) > Cerb > Khim (PD)
Wave 3: Mantis (PD) >

Ideal Setup:
DDx5 WHM
SMN x5 COR
PLD SCH THF BRD CORx2 (1 COR + BRD rotated into main DD party)

Hall of An:
Wave 1: Behe + Ada (BLMs on Ada) > Jorm
Wave 2: Zilant (PD) > Behe (PD) > Tortoise (BLMs on from start probably)
Wave 3: Harpy (PD) >

Ideal setup: DDx3 WHM COR BRD
SMN x3 BLM x2 DD x1
PLD x2 WHM SCH RNG BLM x1

I see. Do you know of any place where I can read a more in depth and clarified strategy for these halls? My google search didn't turn up anything useful except that the low tiers are easier low man than full alliance.

Thanks in advance.

[Habu]

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/108713-Legion-info-and-strategies

is all I really know of. I know it's a long thread but most likely anything you need to know is in there.

[Trisscar]

Thanks. Hopefully I'll find what I'm looking for in that mess. If nothing else it gives kill orders (just by looking at the last two pages).

[Habu]

Other chambers:

Hall of Im:
Wave 1: Corse (PD) > Vampyr > Dvergr
Wave 2: Vampyr (PD) > Corse (PD) > Dvergr
Wave 3: Naraka (PD) >

Hall of Mul:
Wave 1: Mantis (PD) > Harpy > IG (PD) > Naraka (PD)
Wave 2: IG (PD) > Naraka (PD) > Harpy (PD) > Mantis (PD)
Wave 3: Ig-Alima (PD) >

Ideal Setup:
DDx5 WHM
SMN x5 COR
PLD SCH THF BRD CORx2 (1 COR + BRD rotated into main DD party)

[Trisscar]

What does PD mean in your examples? That those mobs have Perfect Deffense or that it's reconmended to have Perfect Deffense for them? If the latter why do you have instances of two to three PD reconmended but only one Paladin for ideal setup?

[Habu]

It means you use Perfect Defense for those mobs. In most cases a PLD(Aegis)+WHM can hold the other two mobs while DDs zerg down the third. This is true except for Mul where the PLD kites the mobs not being fought.

[Trisscar]

It means you use Perfect Defense for those mobs. In most cases a PLD(Aegis)+WHM can hold the other two mobs while DDs zerg down the third. This is true except for Mul where the PLD kites the mobs not being fought.

So you have one super tank occupy two mobs while the third gets ganked? No wonder why our strategy was no more than spinning our wheels.

[Nala]

Hi, my name is Kaerin, and Im a casual, and I hate world spawns, and I hate bots.

Today the LS I'm second in charge of did the final chamber in Legion, for the first time, our 5th run ever, and 75% of the LS is new, and we timed out right after Botulus and Ig spawned. Very few people have managed to defeat either of these mobs yet, and we would of killed one of them, if the ironclad didnt screw us over and kill our embrava mule so we didnt have that buff for the last mob in wave 2 or any of wave 3. I'm 15/15 on neo-nyzul gear, and I'm sure I finished this event before you. I'm responsible for creating the current 'best WAR TP set,' and I was probably the first person to have it, second at worst. Back in 2004/5/6 my LS was #1 on the BG Big Kills list, and I've always been better at this game than crap tier players who need to rely on bots and bad spawn mechanics to win at FFXI. Your attempt to degrade my opinion by calling everyone who is against world spawns a noob was a good try, but the truth is that I'm better than you at this game and I always have been.

Heh, though i usually agree with your opinions i've always thought you were overwhelmingly rude (without meaning to insult) however i wish i could like this statement an infinite amount of times.

[Rosina]

Hi
i'm a non casual and i do hate botting.... but i enjoy the concept of fighting hnm

just not have the spawn be once a rl day. :)

I love fighting huge bosses field and dungeon alike.

Oh and fighting kings was highly popular when ffxi was first starting. Just once ppl started getting black belt and drops, no one started to kill them.

i'm not after rewards, not asking for dumbed down content... just the ability to do the content. once a real life day even under a 20 hr playtime make it iffy to actually do the content. I perfer something that requires more machincs to it like in sky with kirin, or with hati in kon. Highlands. It makes it rare but doable by anyone. Cuz u still have to do the work of either getting the pop items, or understanding the spawn time. (not waiting around for a slight chance at it)

[Winrie]

Well as I'm seeing, no matter what's said no one can leave another to their own play style. A video game like this should fit both audiences or neither imho. There's nothing wrong with the casual style and there's nothing wrong with people desiring more than that, why do you farm gear? For the same reason that other guy camps fafnir, only difference is how you chose to do it and what you prefer to do. Casuals screaming at hardcores for their preference in content is like yelling at someone for their choice in a burger at your local joint that differs from yours, get over yourself people have their own wants and likes, is that burger going in your mouth? Is someone forcing you to eat it? No. Same to the hardcores, who are you to tell people they aren't entitled to get their crap cause they have less time to play? I've asked for diversity in playerbase but the end results should be equal honestly if you wish to appease both crowds.

That being said, for the people in support of HNM, you guys push the elite button too hard IMO and make us all look like f'n jackasses. Most of us, like me enjoyed fighting exotic rare mobs that could floor us, not so much the prestige if there was any Norte gear so much. It always felt nice to claim, I've felt the bite of botters as anyone else but I've never taken the mentality of "I have to bot to win QQ HNM for botters only" ect. As I said earlier in this, theres no hnms out ATM, so no point crying, if they add them, look at content and see if it's good for both sides, if it's HNM only then I could see all this upset crap going on, also this is a forum, opinions are supposed to be expressed and discussed, not troll fest bullshit, that turns off people from these forums. Also, how are opinions supposed to be taken seriously or even looked at if the reps ect have to shovel thru miles of troll shit to find the points and comments that matter to the topic?

[Demon6324236]

Winrie, can you please explain why, to anyone, extremely long spawns are, or should be, a good idea to put back in?

Before you answer, let me point out, as you said
Most of us, like me enjoyed fighting exotic rare mobs that could floor us, not so much the prestige if there was any Norte gear so much.if this is the mentality of most of the hardcore players then why are the times to these spawns get included in opinions saying to do it? Were it not for the HNMs being time spawn, or at least this long of a time spawn, I doubt I would have anything of a problem. Also if the gear is no problem, why do some say they want special gear? This is my biggest problem. I am all for fun, hard fights, but when restricted to such a small amount of players, and giving something that is rare not because of difficulty, but limitations, it upsets me.

Now that I have explained, can you please explain to me how these would be good for the game, and its players?

[Demon6324236]

To give another perspective.
Casuals screaming at hardcores for their preference in content is like yelling at someone for their choice in a burger at your local joint that differs from yours, get over yourself people have their own wants and likes, is that burger going in your mouth? Is someone forcing you to eat it? No.The problem is not that people do not want to do the content, rather they are unable to. We don't have the money for that burger you want us to eat. If the event were only hard, not 20 hours to pop, not 4 hours of camping to see if you get it, just a really hard fight, that you can do with friends and ls members when you have time, and want to give it a go, like legion, I think people would be ok with it. The problem is the restrictions the time gives people, that makes the content very undesirable.

[Tamoa]

1. How about a new hnm or 2 with spawn conditions like Sandworm and Dark Ixion? I.e. they can spawn in any of a set number of zones, which make them more or less un-bottable - and to make it even harder give them multiple possible pop areas in each zone (like Sandworm). That way they can't be claimbotted, would that be ok with everyone who's so against new hnms because they believe it will bring back the bots?

2. Ridiculous windows like Tiamat - no thanks. But once a rl day, like the kings and SW/DI, with maybe a reduced window - 2 hours or something? How does that sound?

3. As for drops - well it's been suggested already, and it seems that most people who want hnms back agree that it's perfectly fine if the drops also come from another source, like king abjurations from Odin. Let's say the new hnms drop the same items as Neo-Odin, just as an example. What's so bad about that? And yes, SE took their time adding content where you could obtain king abjurations without having to actually camp kings - that doesn't mean they'd do that this time around.


I know it's hard to believe for the majority of the players, but some people actually enjoyed hnms and miss that aspect of the game. The thrill of the hunt, of getting claim (with out without bots, please stop believing that botting = guaranteed claim), the drama that often unfolded when competition claimed and started to wipe etc - some people actually found that fun. Oh and please don't elaborate too much on the "drama" part - I'm not talking about mpk attempts and things like that.


So in short, if the gear is obtainable elsewhere, no Tiamat-like windows, and pop conditions similar to SW/DI - would that be ok for all of you who're opposed to new hnms?

[Demon6324236]

Gear obtainable via alternative source. 1~2 hour pop times. Yes, this is acceptable to me.

[zataz]

To give another perspective.The problem is not that people do not want to do the content, rather they are unable to. We don't have the money for that burger you want us to eat. If the event were only hard, not 20 hours to pop, not 4 hours of camping to see if you get it, just a really hard fight, that you can do with friends and ls members when you have time, and want to give it a go, like legion, I think people would be ok with it. The problem is the restrictions the time gives people, that makes the content very undesirable.

i understand your point of time limitations and i respect your opinion on hnms. but like i said before i personally enjoy camping. u all are like grade schooler's i mean who cares what person a has if there rude blacklist them and be done your argument is u might not claim the nm (assuming u really try) or it might not be up when u get on.. who's to say they won't do like speed belt there's like 3 versions of it. lol each come from a different source, they dont have to be 21-24 why not 2-8 ? i don't have a Empyrean Relic or mystic. i dont really need them i still manage to have loads of fun. a peice of gear or armor doesn't make or break u. if it does in "your friends eyes" then u need new friends. all i'm trying to say is u all are fighting over something that may or may not matter. and to anyone who says camping is a waste of time. playing a game is a waste of time.

[Tunasushi]

Gear obtainable via alternative source. 1~2 hour pop times. Yes, this is acceptable to me.

lmao.

"It's only acceptable if it fits MY playstyle!!!"

gtfo lol and lol@ur sig. Abyssea will never be endgame.

[Tyrion]

Just because I missed windows, doesn't mean I am ignorent to the inner workings...

You do realise hnm used to pop with in 24 hour cool downs based on last kill. In my experience outside server resets... said hnm typically poped around 12am-5am. That is how i missed spawn times i was sleeping, or doing sky or dynamis around then.

But in reality what does my missing spawns have anything to do with allowing or suggesting content be on such a large cool down timer?

Has nothing to do with it, just wish your story was a little consistent.

[Winrie]

Yeah I understand many can't do it due to time. I'm only in favor of of timed spawns again under certain circumstances, so you understand where I'm coming from:

Tiamat window length I can do without, this day and age I myself have a full-time job and a family to deal with among my rl. Idk what's a fair repop for everyone for a hard set of monsters with great gear.

I'm fine with timed spawns if there's alternate content that drops same stuff/alternatives that are just as good as HNM gear, appearance changes could be made between gear types to distinguish an avid HNM camper from a casual content dweller, which sates the desire for diversity in players IMHO.
Example: a hauberk with + 20 to stats that look like say an ebody that has some spikes or whatever on it and it glows drops off pink fafnir, while a similar hauberk drops off let's say a casual friendly dungeon boss and it has the exact same stats but doesnt have the same exact appearance. By looking at both ppl you see what guy time sinker HNM for his body and which one casually got. Idk, it's trivial tbh and serves no benefit other than to sate the diversity and wanting to look pro in your HNM gear. Cosmetic bullshit.

Personally I'd like a system of NM battles that actually gave me a
Need for a solid LS again that uses a win x times for x reward type of deal. Not like vw where it's all rng. NM can have low drop rates upon kill np but as long as veryone is guaranteed spoils ultimately everyone is happy.

To answer the question of whom it benefits to have HNM again: only the ppl who want HNM, it's one more thing for them to do, and it gives them somehinf they want too, and as I said, if alternate content grants equivalent to equal gear/same gear, no one loses and everybody wins, and in a business standpoint making the most people happy as best as possible is win win. But as with everything in life, not everyone will ve totally happy, and there will always be critics. Just a fact :/

[Winrie]

Someone who can't play as much shouldn't be punished with unobtainable gear therefore alternative content with just as good rewards needs to be there, it has to be, or HNM can't happen again.

I.e. A world were I can go up to someone and tell them grata on their gear they jus obtained in casual content, an just because they got it in a different playstyle didn't make them Gimp compared to his HNM buddys HNM set, everyones happy, everyones pimp, the HNM guy jus becomes subject to moms basement trolls :3

[Demon6324236]

lmao.

"It's only acceptable if it fits MY playstyle!!!"

No, simply the only time I will accept the content as good. When you make something most of your players will never see, or play, you waste your time and effort in my opinion. You want me to shut up? Agree, you want your hard fights, I'm ok with hard fights. You want time spawns, I'm ok with them if they are reasonable. You want rare drops, I'm ok with them if they are able to be gotten by more ways than 1 when the only 1 way is via a highly restricted piece of content.


gtfo lol and lol@ur sig. Abyssea will never be endgame.

I don't want abyssea to be endgame, I want endgame to be rewarding. I'm tired of wasting days and hours on a game getting literally nothing done on the game because every event is a massive dice roll to determine if I will get anything, or if I will get nothing. This is what endgame currently seems to be in most cases. NNI is a role of a die on so many levels, pathos, floor number, floor arrangement, floor contents, floor objective, so much luck involved. VW is much the same, role a die for procs, and for drops. Abyssea had a fair drop rate system, and was rewarding for time and effort, no other endgame I have seen since has lived up to it in that respect.

[saevel]

Someone who can't play as much shouldn't be punished with unobtainable gear therefore alternative content with just as good rewards needs to be there, it has to be, or HNM can't happen again.

I.e. A world were I can go up to someone and tell them grata on their gear they jus obtained in casual content, an just because they got it in a different playstyle didn't make them Gimp compared to his HNM buddys HNM set, everyones happy, everyones pimp, the HNM guy jus becomes subject to moms basement trolls :3

This wouldn't make the hardcore crown happy at all, if anything it would piss them off even further.

Their value isn't in the gear or even the accomplishment of killing the dangerous / "challenging" *cough* NM. The value is in other people not having the gear. They want it impossible for other players to obtain the gear, thus giving meaning to their no-job / school / social non-life.

[Trisscar]

lmao.

"It's only acceptable if it fits MY playstyle!!!"

gtfo lol and lol@ur sig. Abyssea will never be endgame.

You are a moron and here's why:
In Aby there's an VNM named Brulo, an evil Ifrit mob that will kill the entire alliance if you don't give it special handling. I doubt you ever fought him because your "I'm too awesome for this shit" mentality so let me explain this to you in a way that you'll understand. This Tier III VNM spawns in Aby Altepa once an hour, provided you have the pop for it. First you must, obviously, fight the Tier I and Tier II and have the abysites change color.

Now since fighting Altepa's Tier I VNM is a hassle, the typical way this is done is by sending the shell members to other zones to solo their own Tier I (with the favorite seeming to be Tahrongi, due to its high change rate and it's squishyness). Then everyone gathers in Altepa to fight a Titan mob.

This Titan isn't exactly the most challenging of foes, it could be fought solo with most damage dealers, but this isn't the issue. The issue comes from the fact that, like Brulo, the Titan has a long respawn time. To make maters worse it's also a common target for people farming Warrior seals, who camp it at the same time rather than go after easier to camp monsters. Also the Titan doesn't help change your Abysite colors very often (it's fairly uncommon, in fact).

You put all this together and then you have a situation where a dedicated camp of a full alliance spending 8 to 10 hours a day camping Brulo but only gets to fight it maybe four times, all for just one guaranteed magian trophy drop (for a trial that requires 50 said trophies) and a rare drop in the form of a highly coveted Black Mage scythe.

Yeah, sure. This isn't endgame. Moron.

[Tamoa]

This wouldn't make the hardcore crown happy at all, if anything it would piss them off even further.

Their value isn't in the gear or even the accomplishment of killing the dangerous / "challenging" *cough* NM. The value is in other people not having the gear. They want it impossible for other players to obtain the gear, thus giving meaning to their no-job / school / social non-life.


There might be a select few who feel that way, however for the majority of the pro-hnm players what you just said there is a load of bullcrap. Not only that, it's insulting aswell, and the rl card is reeeeeeally classy.

[Winrie]

I try not to troll anyone but the person who said that crap about the Titan being a long repop(it's 15 mins dude) and brulo bein hard, is a moron I'm sorry. Brulo is a tame child with a good ninja and whitemage. Same as a good pld wearing proper gear(not perle) same as with everything in abyssea.

And wtf @ 18 ppl camp brulo lol no indeed

[cidbahamut]

and a rare drop in the form of a highly coveted Black Mage scythe.


wat
are you serious?

[Trisscar]

I try not to troll anyone but the person who said that crap about the Titan being a long repop(it's 15 mins dude) and brulo bein hard, is a moron I'm sorry. Brulo is a tame child with a good ninja and whitemage. Same as a good pld wearing proper gear(not perle) same as with everything in abyssea.

15 minutes is a long time when you're competing against two or more other groups camping the same mob (for Warrior seals), especially if they're using hacks to do it. If they get it 3 times out of 5 that wastes 45 minutes of your camp. Didn't think of that, did you?

You also failed to address the uncommon chance of Titan's death changing your Abysite colors. I have personally spawned him around 30 times and got 2 changes from his death. If you have those same seal campers out camping you with their hacks that means I have spawned Brulo himself only once every three months. How is this that much different is this from HNM with overly long respawn rates?

As for Brulo I already said that it requires special handling (like you said, one Ninja or Paladin tank and a healer), rather just dog pilling on the damned thing otherwise it will turn nasty on you.

[Trisscar]

wat
are you serious?

It is coveted, amongst Black Mages that don't have it. Similar to that Great Axe that falls from that Hydra is for part time Warriors that don't aim for Empy. And since blue procs aren't usually exploited on Brulo the Scythe has a low drop rate (I think I've seen drop maybe 5 times). What part of this is hard for you to fathom?

[Habu]

I'm glad I stepped back from this argument so you guys could keep saying the same things over and over.

[Demon6324236]

I'm glad I stepped back from this argument so you guys could keep saying the same things over and over.

You did no different, no reason for you to comment.

[Rekin]

@Habu: So do you, but hey lets not derail.

HNMs with ridiculous respawn timers are a relic of the past. SE acknowledged this twice, first by having the KS99s so that others may have a shot at equipment of great value whilst skill experiencing the meat and bones of what it meant to fight those creatures. Yet the timed spawns still retained their unique loot as to keep meaning to their existence. Then later SE made those nms forced spawns that still hold a level of exclusivness while giving more an opportunity at fighting said mobs by buying the pop item. Overall the game was improved by this as players spent more time playing(good) and less time waiting(bad). A game that fails to entertain is a poor game. A game company that fails to entertain its customers is doomed to go bankrupt. There is no reason why SE would want to make content that is not entertaining.

[Habu]

Why is this topic still going with the same responses?

[Tamoa]

It is coveted, amongst Black Mages that don't have it. Similar to that Great Axe that falls from that Hydra is for part time Warriors that don't aim for Empy. And since blue procs aren't usually exploited on Brulo the Scythe has a low drop rate (I think I've seen drop maybe 5 times). What part of this is hard for you to fathom?

That scythe is a piece of trash and any blm using it should be ashamed.

[Hercule]

Why is this topic still going with the same responses?

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/41414_100001778400229_2858842_n.jpg

[Habu]

That scythe is a piece of trash and any blm using it should be ashamed.

^ ele staffs are still better than that garbage

[cidbahamut]

It is coveted, amongst Black Mages that don't have it. Similar to that Great Axe that falls from that Hydra is for part time Warriors that don't aim for Empy. And since blue procs aren't usually exploited on Brulo the Scythe has a low drop rate (I think I've seen drop maybe 5 times). What part of this is hard for you to fathom?

The part where people would actually want it.

That thing is absolute rubbish and anyone who equips it for anything other than town gear should be ashamed of themselves.

[Demon6324236]

Sorry to tell you if I'm not serious about playing BLM, I would rather 1 decent Scythe for nuking, instead of carrying around 8 staffs I use on rare occasion.

[svengalis]

My 2nd part was basicly to anyone with the same idealism as this fellow here

As for being handed gear you don't understand. You for some reason do not understand the stupidity that is the idea of a monster in a virtual world that if you wish to fight you will likely need to base your life around. Some people have jobs, need to sleep, have family and friends outside, the game should not punish people who have their priorities in check and know life>game.

Natenn is trolling bro.

[Habu]

Sorry to tell you if I'm not serious about playing BLM, I would rather 1 decent Scythe for nuking, instead of carrying around 8 staffs I use on rare occasion.

So you're ok with being extremely mediocre?

[Demon6324236]

So you're ok with being extremely mediocre?

If I play my BLM once a week or less, for procs or other worthless things I am not expecting to do much damage, yeah, I'm perfectly ok with that. I still haven't gotten BLM full+1 even, because I honestly don't care for the job, I used it for the time I was in abyssea, needed seals, and had no other seal party jobs. Now the only BLM I care about gearing up is my gfs, mine can rot.

[Habu]

I literally play my BLM the same amount of time but I have enough respect for it to gear it. Just because you barely play a job that doesn't mean you can just half gear it and think that it's acceptable.

[cidbahamut]

Sorry to tell you if I'm not serious about playing BLM, I would rather 1 decent Scythe for nuking, instead of carrying around 8 staffs I use on rare occasion.

You shouldn't have leveled Black Mage then.

Elemental staves are the most basic and essential piece of equipment you can get for the job. If you're not going to invest in them then you shouldn't be on the job at all.

Alternatively you could free up a ton of your precious inventory slots by simply not gearing it at all and showing up to events butt naked on it.

[Camiie]

I literally play my BLM the same amount of time but I have enough respect for it to gear it. Just because you barely play a job that doesn't mean you can just half gear it and think that it's acceptable.


You shouldn't have leveled Black Mage then.

You guys sure are full of yourselves.

[Habu]

Because if I level a job I actually take some pride in getting decent gear for it so I'm not useless on it?

[cidbahamut]

Showing up on BLM without at least NQ elemental staves is like a Ninja showing up without any Ninja tools.

[Trisscar]

So you're ok with being extremely mediocre?

I (as a career Blue Mage) don't go into a VWNM expecting someone who leveled Blue Mage just to fill the niche of Proc exploit to have Almace level 90 and all the bells and whistles that I have or any other long time Blue Mage has. As long as they have the skills and the actual spells I don't see the problem with them not having it. And since I'm not leveling Black Mage as a career I won't be wasting my time and/or effort to get Black Mage's bell and whistles when the scythe is good enough to get me by.

Nor will I sneer at Black Mages that do have all the bells and whistles that a more dedicated Black Mage would.

[Demon6324236]

You shouldn't have leveled Black Mage then.

Elemental staves are the most basic and essential piece of equipment you can get for the job. If you're not going to invest in them then you shouldn't be on the job at all.

Alternatively you could free up a ton of your precious inventory slots by simply not gearing it at all and showing up to events butt naked on it.

Let me correct you, elemental staves are the most basic and essential piece of equipment you can get for the job IF, you want to do damage. I cared nothing about damage, I cared about procs, I wanted gear, +1 and +2, BLM is easiest job to do that with especially as RDM is and was my main job which gave me many of the spells already along with some gear for it.

To continue gearing my BLM when my gf is a BLM main seemed boring, because I have no want to do the same work over again for both of us, I would rather let her be better at what she likes, as such I took up SCH. I have been making damage staffs for my SCH, and RDM. Later I plan to make trial Magic Acc staffs if that matters much once enfeebling changes, I have been putting them off for the reason of waiting on the verdict on that subject.

[Demon6324236]

Showing up on BLM without at least NQ elemental staves is like a Ninja showing up without any Ninja tools.

Except, NIN cant cast any spells that way, and BLM only casts weaker, gimpier spells, yes, same thing.

[Habu]

itt: people who think that gimping their VW party is ok because it's not their main job. Hopefully they wont stick you on DoTs with that nice proc scythe you're wearing.

[cidbahamut]

Let me correct you, elemental staves are the most basic and essential piece of equipment you can get for the job IF, you want to do damage. I cared nothing about damage, I cared about procs, I wanted gear, +1 and +2, BLM is easiest job to do that with especially as RDM is and was my main job which gave me many of the spells already along with some gear for it.
So if you have RDM you already had access to the staves and have no reason not to make use of them. If as you say you were just using it for procs and absolutely nothing else, then you shouldn't have any gear for it at all, in which case you've no need for the scythe.




To continue gearing my BLM when my gf is a BLM main seemed boring, because I have no want to do the same work over again for both of us, I would rather let her be better at what she likes, as such I took up SCH. I have been making damage staffs for my SCH, and RDM. Later I plan to make trial Magic Acc staffs if that matters much once enfeebling changes, I have been putting them off for the reason of waiting on the verdict on that subject.

Oh sweet merciful Christ...Save yourself the trouble and don't bother with the magic accuracy staves. They are a terrible return on investment and won't be some silver bullet fix to NMs having stupid resist rates/immunities. As one Red Mage to another, take my advice and build yourself a couple nuking staves, they're so much more fun and useful to boot.

[Randwolf]

Let me correct you, elemental staves are the most basic and essential piece of equipment you can get for the job IF, you want to do damage. I cared nothing about damage, I cared about procs, I wanted gear, +1 and +2, BLM is easiest job to do that with especially as RDM is and was my main job which gave me many of the spells already along with some gear for it.

To continue gearing my BLM when my gf is a BLM main seemed boring, because I have no want to do the same work over again for both of us, I would rather let her be better at what she likes, as such I took up SCH. I have been making damage staffs for my SCH, and RDM. Later I plan to make trial Magic Acc staffs if that matters much once enfeebling changes, I have been putting them off for the reason of waiting on the verdict on that subject.

This response is most appropriate as long as you strive to gear your primary job(s) with the best gear. As a member of a shell, people know my best geared jobs, my decently geared jobs, and my "if the shell is desperate" jobs.

You also have a responsibility to pass on good gear for your lesser jobs to those who have it as their primary job.

[Trisscar]

Showing up on BLM without at least NQ elemental staves is like a Ninja showing up without any Ninja tools.

Why? They're a very minor improvement over the NQ staves, if that.

[Demon6324236]

So if you have RDM you already had access to the staves and have no reason not to make use of them. If as you say you were just using it for procs and absolutely nothing else, then you shouldn't have any gear for it at all, in which case you've no need for the scythe.

Scythe was actually a stoke of luck getting it, went to get my gf PUP body seals off Titan and teamed up with a PLD going for souls, dropped 2 Scythes in the time we were farming him, my gf got one, and I got the other. Other than that staffs were mostly sold because I had almost no use for them once abyssea nearly killed off RDM being useful, I figured if I wanted staves, I would just make the trial ones sometime.


Oh sweet merciful Christ...Save yourself the trouble and don't bother with the magic accuracy staves. They are a terrible return on investment and won't be some silver bullet fix to NMs having stupid resist rates/immunities. As one Red Mage to another, take my advice and build yourself a couple nuking staves, they're so much more fun and useful to boot.

lol k, I was probably just sticking to nuking anyways, like I said acc were mainly going to be made if the changes to enfeebling magic actually make them worth having, to much work unless there is a noticeable difference.

[cidbahamut]

Why? They're a very minor improvement over the NQ staves, if that.

NQ staves are a minor improvement over NQ staves? What? Perhaps you mistakenly thought I was refering to the higher quality counterparts, in which case you are still being silly because they offer a sizable performance boost. It's a straight percentage increase to damage, which is kind of amazing.

[Habu]

HNMs are dumb>so are Ele staves. Oh wise one.

[Demon6324236]

HNMs are dumb>so are Ele staves. Oh wise one.

Yes, thats exactly what was said.

[Suteru]

Oh yes we should have timed popped because we're all unemployed and play this game for 12+ hours a day. How dare someone with an actual job try playing this game and still lead a regular life outside the game! They're not the "real" players.

[Habu]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IHmZeGAA2pw/Tw9HHzmr2RI/AAAAAAAAB6I/wcW9a5I8Wk0/s1600/troll%2Bface.jpg

Too easy

[Rekin]

Looks like the topic was successfully derailed. Does that mean Timed HNMs deserve to return to the game? No.

[Demon6324236]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IHmZeGAA2pw/Tw9HHzmr2RI/AAAAAAAAB6I/wcW9a5I8Wk0/s1600/troll%2Bface.jpg

Too easy

Yes, we all know you are, I simply feel like replying to you because you like to twist words, I just like to restate that what your saying is false.

[Trisscar]

NQ staves are a minor improvement over NQ staves? What? Perhaps you mistakenly thought I was refering to the higher quality counterparts, in which case you are still being silly because they offer a sizable performance boost. It's a straight percentage increase to damage, which is kind of amazing.

I'm going to assume we're not talking about comparison of Light Staff to Apollo's Staff, as that isn't anything a Black Mage needs worry about unless they're assist healing, and for a more likely comparison of Fire Staff to Vulcan's Staff.


http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/1/10/Fire_Staff.png
Hidden effect:
Fire Magic Affinity +1
-2 Avatar perpetuation cost for Ifrit and Fire Spirit.

Versus:


http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/5/58/Vulcan%27s_Staff.png


Hidden effect:
Fire Magic Affinity +2
-3 Avatar perpetuation cost for Ifrit and Fire Spirit.

Oh yes, that's a staggering difference right there that makes it worth the old time expense of millions just to get the HQ staves.

Not.

Compare it to:


http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/1/1f/Maleficus.png

So yeah, even according to career Black Mages, Maleficus will cover your basic needs as a part time Black Mage. The Magian staves are for for those determined to make the most out of Black Mage (the career Black Mage) and the HQ staves are only good for posers like yourself.

[cidbahamut]

Oh lord, where do I even start...

Here, educate yourself instead of insulting me: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Magic_Affinity
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Magic_Damage
The flat 10% increase of a NQ staff is going to beat the pants off the Scythe. 15% if you buy an HQ staff.

By the way, HQ staves don't cost millions anymore and the NQ versions are dirt cheap (http://www.ffxiah.com/search/item?&level[0]=51&level[1]=51&skill_id=12#adv).

[Trisscar]

Oh lord, where do I even start...

Here, educate yourself instead of insulting me: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Magic_Affinity
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Magic_Damage
The flat 10% increase of a NQ staff is going to beat the pants off the Scythe. 15% if you buy an HQ staff.

By the way, HQ staves don't cost millions anymore and the NQ versions are dirt cheap: http://www.ffxiah.com/search/item?&level[0]=51&level[1]=51&skill_id=12#adv

Who says I don't already have the elemental staves? I have some (the NQ versions at least) because they're useful to have on Blue Mage to exploit procs on monsters that have high resists to that specific element (Akvan and Darkness element comes immediately to mind), due purely to fact that Blue Mage has no other options.

But just like I don't sneer at part time Blue Mages who don't have all the gear a full timer would, I don't sneer at part time Black Mages either.

Edit to add: Yes, I know that with a small investment on my part I can get the HQ staves. I just sneer at the huge price jump between NQ to HQ from ye olde tyme, there was never a justification for that.

[Demon6324236]

By the way, HQ staves don't cost millions anymore and the NQ versions are dirt cheap (http://www.ffxiah.com/search/item?&level[0]=51&level[1]=51&skill_id=12#adv).

All of them together don't cost even 1 mil(on Phoenix)

[Rosina]

This wouldn't make the hardcore crown happy at all, if anything it would piss them off even further.

Their value isn't in the gear or even the accomplishment of killing the dangerous / "challenging" *cough* NM. The value is in other people not having the gear. They want it impossible for other players to obtain the gear, thus giving meaning to their no-job / school / social non-life.

i'm hardcore and i'm not pissed....

its an mmorpg... ppl gonna get the gear eventually why you out so much stock in artifical value... and infact...

content id just about the reward... its about the content being fun to so.

ever knew timed mobs wasn't fun. it got tedious that even some hardcores got tired of it. Hence the change in kings.

[Rosina]

Has nothing to do with it, just wish your story was a little consistent.

i've been playing the game for years, all my friends and my ex did hnm. I asked questions about it and been to a few runs that i COULD do.
I seen 1 behemoth 2 admantious. almost got egg but family dc me.

but really tho what i said was consistent. it was rare for me to make a run cuz i put real life over a game i sleep when i need to, and when i sleep thats when most windows were open.

[Rosina]

Oh yes we should have timed popped because we're all unemployed and play this game for 12+ hours a day. How dare someone with an actual job try playing this game and still lead a regular life outside the game! They're not the "real" players.

life vs no life aurgument is grasping strwas on either side please stop. if u have nothing productive to say don't post.

ps this thread has nothing to do with gear, or ele staves. honestly tho fact rdm can use them is stupid since rdm has no natural staff skill...

[cidbahamut]

if u have nothing productive to say don't post.



honestly tho fact rdm can use them is stupid since rdm has no natural staff skill...

Hmmmm.......

[Trisscar]

ps this thread has nothing to do with gear, or ele staves. honestly tho fact rdm can use them is stupid since rdm has no natural staff skill...

Your argument here does not follow. That's not the reason most people who use staves use staves.

[Rosina]

Your argument here does not follow. That's not the reason most people who use staves use staves.

i jusr was sharing my opinion. it had nothing to do with ya current conversation. infact i said that to make a joke. To pretty much showcase ine idiocy of derailing threads because you have no counter arguement on what is being said.

also staves are not all that great i used both and tbh its not THAT high of a boost i will admit it does help a smn and on debuffs. but honestly if u need to over power ur nukes >.> u in the wrong parties.

Also what i stated wasn't an agrument just an opinion. All i said was you guys bringing in petty bs that has nothing to do with the thread and is subjective at best. No such thing as a 1 set of "the best gear" there are gear for any choice based on ur perfered style of play. If their style works for them who we to say otherwise... we don;t pay for their account.

[Rosina]

Hmmmm.......

read the above stament :)

[FrankReynolds]

Hmmmm.......

Rosina does not believe in gear swaps. That is why he / she doesn't understand why RDM can use them.

[Demon6324236]

Rosina does not believe in gear swaps. That is why he / she doesn't understand why RDM can use them.

That or its because its stupid that a job with no staff skill has been one of the most staff using jobs in the game since the elemental staffs. Take your pick, I know my reason for hating them well enough, I still use them, but doesn't mean I like it.

[FrankReynolds]

That or its because its stupid that a job with no staff skill has been one of the most staff using jobs in the game since the elemental staffs. Take your pick, I know my reason for hating them well enough, I still use them, but doesn't mean I like it.

I wasn't being mean or facetious. She / he doesn't think gear swaps are necessary.

[Demon6324236]

I wasn't being mean or facetious. She / he doesn't think gear swaps are necessary.

:x
(Stupid 10character thing -_-)

[Phogg]

This thread has become as boring tedious and pointless as camping timed NM.

[Habu]

Oh look how whitty you are

[RAIST]

also staves are not all that great i used both and tbh its not THAT high of a boost i will admit it does help a smn and on debuffs. but honestly if u need to over power ur nukes >.> u in the wrong parties.


http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/images/ffxi/thumb/6/6a/ApamajasI.png/256px-ApamajasI.png

http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Magic_Affinity

The bonuses associated with elemental affinity are:

■A Magic Damage bonus (or penalty), expressed as a percent modifier to spell damage that is calculated independently from other magic damage modifiers such as Weather and Magic Attack Bonus (see: Calculating Magic Damage). The Magic Damage bonus from Elemental Affinity also affects the damage dealt by the Corsair job ability Quick Draw.
■A bonus (or penalty) to Magic Accuracy
■A bonus (or penalty) to Avatar Perpetuation Cost for Avatars summoned by the player.
Bonuses are reported in tiers, rather than direct increases.

■NQ Elemental staves, such as the Thunder Staff, grant Affinity +1 as a hidden effect.
■HQ Elemental staves, such as the Jupiter's Staff, grant Affinity +2 as a hidden effect.

+6 damage affinity is a flat 35% boost applied seperately, vs 15% on an HQ elemental, more than double the boost. And let's not forget the casting time boost, which can become critical at times.

Yeah... that's "not all that great".....

Edit:
Sorry...but this statement was bugging me, so I just had to vet it with some actual numbers, so when I got back to town I changed jobs and grabbed some staves:

naked 99 BLM/RDM (102 INT), no food, using aquilo's since it's bonuses will make the damage a little closer to the Magian's. Bees right outside Bastok Mines, watersday.

Base damage of spells: Blizz IV: 506, Freeze II 710

no staff at all
Blizzard IV: 1047
Freeze II: 1353

Aquilo's Staff
Blizzard IV: 1221 (+16.61%)
Freeze II:1572 (+16.18%)

Vourukasha 1 (Magic Damage +6)
Blizzard IV: 1413 (+34.95%)
Freeze II: 1825 (34.88%)

That is 18% more output from Aquiilo's to Magian. That is bringing a magian Blizz IV to within 160 damage of an Aquilo's Freeze II (1413 vs 1572). Now, just for the heck of it...let's test that with Thunder IV vs Burst II when the day changes to Windsday:

Jupiter's, Burst II: 1555
Apamajas 1, Thunder IV: 1483

An even closer gap--only 72 damage difference, and they are TWO SPELL TIERS APART!!

In the end, it's about being MORE EFFICIENT with your nukes.

[Modoru]

Oh man, she's still here. Please don't argue with Rosina about equipment, I tried arguing sense into him/her about choice vs. efficiency and apparently, a year later, they're still saying the same things. Just... let it be. They'll stop talking eventually.

[Trisscar]

I think they're arguing that there isn't that vast of a difference between NQ and HQ.

Could be wrong though. Their posts aren't exactly easy to follow.

[Rosina]

to be frank SE fully admitec gear swaping was not intentional and they don't switcjh it because it will tick ppl off. And from my personal experience a well timed nuke is more effective then a high powered one. I've seen this game before and after gear swaping. and in my personal experindce ppl goit WORST with gear swaping... and blame it on others.
but that is just my opinion. I'm not saying anything other then that. Oh and i did use staves both hq and nq as a rdm blm and sch tyvm i didn't see personally any real difference and tbh got killed from it. I've done basic gear swaping and i think its idiotic. but gear swap to your hearts content. Just don't cry if you die from pover powered skills that cause u to gain hate resulting in ur deatj. (which i seen more times then i can count )

I'm a firm believer in people playing how they wish. You guys have literally no reason or right to tell me how to play :) if u want that right pay for my account.

[Rosina]

just to clarafy it was an observational opinion and in no way saying anything of play style you guys summed that up urselves like the trolls you seem to enjoy acting like. I just did it to point out the sillyness of derailing a thread because u have no backbone in coming up with a goiod fight to why 24+ hr spawn rates for hnm is a good thing. I've asked a simple quest which has yet been answered. All i got was options or derogity comments as if i'm a new player (which i'm far from)

[Natenn]

this thread needs to get deleted, HNMs were the best thing to ever happen in this game.

[Rosina]

this thread needs to get deleted, HNMs were the best thing to ever happen in this game.

u know this thread isn't really about not having hnm... its about not having hnm be on a 24 hr pop. hnm are just giant mobs that typically tip around max cap. they are not hnm for their massive timer. u can still have hnm w/o the timer.

[Rekin]

this thread needs to get deleted, HNMs were the best thing to ever happen in this game.

Opinions don't become facts simply because its a truth in your perspective. HNMs were many things but were far from being the best thing that has ever happened to the game.

HNMs caused:
LSes to be formed for players to fight/obtain loot from said mob but also sparked up the greatest amount of drama between players as they fought for limited amounts of times caused by a bottleneck called time spawns.
It also helped gouge a rift between players in a game that was otherwise designed for cooperation. (Ex. "hardcores/pros" attacking novices, casuals for not dedicating more time to the game.) I'm not saying this wouldn't happen if HNMs didn't exist I'm saying that it helps create the rift due to the bottleneck that limited how often players had the chance to obtain gear.

Despite the amount of hate it gets Abyssea could be argued to be the best content released.

Abyssea allowed:
Players the chance to progress in both long term and short term goals within small/large groups. (Empy wep/armor)
Close the disparity between those who could and those who could get gear from the previous generation of content by introducing equipment that allowed players to give their jobs a decent standing when going against the new tougher content. (Perle,etc. gear)
Has the highest reward:effort ratio of any content before its inception.
And as much as players like to dismiss Abyssea as not being important it is still the source of some of the game's strongest equipment. (Ukkos,various empy armor, etc.)

My philosophy on good game design is for content to be enjoyable but more importantly fair. No one should be penalized for having limited play times. Timed spawns do not support my idea as what makes a good game. The only reason HNMs got their fame was because that was where the best gear could be obtained not because they were enjoyable. I won't say that everyone thinks this way but just because a vocal minority wishes for content that most will never have the chance to participate should it ever return.

SE is a company, a company that wishes to make a profit. It makes a profit from having many happy customers enjoying and spreading the word of how great their product is to their friends. When customers are left unsatisfied they leave, and with them comes the impression left by the product. The product then becomes a black mark on the company and it's image is besmirched in the eyes of the public, of which contain more potential customers. Time spawned HNMs do not provide the means nor the atmosphere for many happy people. Of my time camping them I remember spending the hours doing other things then actually being entertained by the game I was "playing". When a game fails to keep your attention by means of entertainment it is a failed product.

[RAIST]

Oh man, she's still here. Please don't argue with Rosina about equipment, I tried arguing sense into him/her about choice vs. efficiency and apparently, a year later, they're still saying the same things. Just... let it be. They'll stop talking eventually.

yeah.. I know...but when misinformation is blurted out, it needs to be countered. And even if she was discussing NQ vs HQ, the discussion was about optimal gear vs. sub-par gear. If I had an NQ to test with against an HQ, I could probalby show the breaking point where it shows the efficiency increase there as well.

That's what better gear is all about...doing what you do better. That's what farming a lot of these big NM's is about...obtaining the better gear. SE just likes to keep us on that virtual hamster wheel of futility trying to optimize our jobs....that is something that will never change. There will always be something coming out better, and more hills to climb to get to them. Regardless of the obstacle, there will be groups that opt in, and those that opt out. Those that opt out may have to find alternative ways to accomplish goals with less optimal setups....eventually, someone will work it out for their group of friends.

After all, that's what this game is really about....teaming up, making friends, accomplishing goals together (or die trying, regroup, try a different strategy....rinse/repeat until you get the win or new shiny object). I just would like to see them get more consistent with their implementations. Either make all the new stuff a royal pain in the arse, medium grade challenge, or give it the Abyssea Easy Button treatment---just be consistent with it.

[Tunasushi]

to be frank SE fully admitec gear swaping was not intentional and they don't switcjh it because it will tick ppl off. And from my personal experience a well timed nuke is more effective then a high powered one. I've seen this game before and after gear swaping. and in my personal experindce ppl goit WORST with gear swaping... and blame it on others.
but that is just my opinion. I'm not saying anything other then that. Oh and i did use staves both hq and nq as a rdm blm and sch tyvm i didn't see personally any real difference and tbh got killed from it. I've done basic gear swaping and i think its idiotic. but gear swap to your hearts content. Just don't cry if you die from pover powered skills that cause u to gain hate resulting in ur deatj. (which i seen more times then i can count )

I'm a firm believer in people playing how they wish. You guys have literally no reason or right to tell me how to play :) if u want that right pay for my account.
lmao....

just wow.

embarrassing!

[Reiterpallasch]

I'm a firm believer in people playing how they wish. You guys have literally no reason or right to tell me how to play :) if u want that right pay for my account.
You don't even pay for your own account!

[Secondplanet]

Good day everyone, Just want to put this out that i have been away from the game for some time and returning due to promise of new expansion.

Any hows, My view on this matter are that HNM's are a really neat and interesting idea of a MMO but as rich of an idea they hold i don't really like them. I have seen so many underhanded methods used that causes a great rift in the player community. I know its not a HNM but when i was helping a friend with SW and we got the claim a whole LS grabbed almost the entire zone and dragged it ontop of us so we couldn't see what was going on during the fight, If we tried to move our fight they would follow and block out entire view of what was going on. We lost the stole claim and yeah, friend was upset over the ordeal since they wanted the YYR.

I've heard stories like that for the longest time involving all 21hr pop NM's from multiple people and boards. I think for that reason SE should either eliminate them from future game design since it was a nice method but like most things ruined by the player for their own greed. The got rid of outside party damage since it was being used to MPK people as a higher level player dragged a mod parade through a low level camp area cause they were either vindictive or thought too highly of themselves.

Again it was a amazing idea and awesome for the people who have camped them who enjoy it but it in itself was ruined by the very players who want them. (Most time sorry for those who don't use underhanded methods i know some do exist)

[Tamoa]

to be frank SE fully admitec gear swaping was not intentional and they don't switcjh it because it will tick ppl off. And from my personal experience a well timed nuke is more effective then a high powered one. I've seen this game before and after gear swaping. and in my personal experindce ppl goit WORST with gear swaping... and blame it on others.
but that is just my opinion. I'm not saying anything other then that. Oh and i did use staves both hq and nq as a rdm blm and sch tyvm i didn't see personally any real difference and tbh got killed from it. I've done basic gear swaping and i think its idiotic. but gear swap to your hearts content. Just don't cry if you die from pover powered skills that cause u to gain hate resulting in ur deatj. (which i seen more times then i can count )

I'm a firm believer in people playing how they wish. You guys have literally no reason or right to tell me how to play :) if u want that right pay for my account.


The bolded part: Please please PLEASE show me where SE said that. If you can't, please learn from your previous mistakes and stop spreading misinformation.

As for the rest of your post - wow, just wow. And wtf is a well-timed nuke???

Play how you like. Be gimp to your heart's content, nobody cares (unless you're so gimp you drag your whole group down). Just don't - please don't advocate a sub-par, gimp playstyle on this forum. Jeez. -.-

[Demon6324236]

to be frank SE fully admitec gear swaping was not intentional and they don't switcjh it because it will tick ppl off. And from my personal experience a well timed nuke is more effective then a high powered one. I've seen this game before and after gear swaping. and in my personal experindce ppl goit WORST with gear swaping... and blame it on others.
but that is just my opinion. I'm not saying anything other then that. Oh and i did use staves both hq and nq as a rdm blm and sch tyvm i didn't see personally any real difference and tbh got killed from it. I've done basic gear swaping and i think its idiotic. but gear swap to your hearts content. Just don't cry if you die from pover powered skills that cause u to gain hate resulting in ur deatj. (which i seen more times then i can count )

I'm a firm believer in people playing how they wish. You guys have literally no reason or right to tell me how to play :) if u want that right pay for my account.

No offense, but without gearswaps, RDM would never get anywhere with anything. Because there is simply no set of gear in the game that can effectively do everything, making RDM impossible.

[cidbahamut]

No offense, but without gearswaps, RDM would never get anywhere with anything. Because there is simply no set of gear in the game that can effectively do everything, making RDM impossible.

This applies for all jobs, but I'll second the notion that it's extremely important for Red Mage specifically. I couldn't pull off half the stuff I do on Red Mage if I wasn't able to make effective use of gear swaps.

[Habu]

Rosina....Pchan's wife.

[Neisan_Quetz]

The bolded part: Please please PLEASE show me where SE said that. If you can't, please learn from your previous mistakes and stop spreading misinformation.

As for the rest of your post - wow, just wow. And wtf is a well-timed nuke???

Play how you like. Be gimp to your heart's content, nobody cares (unless you're so gimp you drag your whole group down). Just don't - please don't advocate a sub-par, gimp playstyle on this forum. Jeez. -.-

Didn't you hear? They also win fights versus VT mobs with well timed 2 hours.

Oh, and seconding everything else, if you want to play bad do it on your own time. No one can force you to play a certain way, but they have no obligation to accept you either.

[Ica]

I'm a firm believer in people playing how they wish. You guys have literally no reason or right to tell me how to play :) if u want that right pay for my account.

So you solo most of the time, then, yes?

[Trisscar]

No offense, but without gearswaps, RDM would never get anywhere with anything. Because there is simply no set of gear in the game that can effectively do everything, making RDM impossible.

At the same time not every situation requires intensive gear swaps, either. Let's say you're a Mage-type character building Azure lights (for the purposes of this example, Blue Mage counts as an actual Mage). Sure, you can keep on doing those same gear swaps. But in the time it takes you to swap gears you can kill the monsters without the gear swaps.

Despite what macro junkies like to say, gear swaps aren't a panacea and it's something that needs to be done on a case-by-case basis.

[Habu]

You can't relate Abyssea content to content of olde that actually required you to gear swap.

[RAIST]

At the same time not every situation requires intensive gear swaps, either. Let's say you're a Mage-type character building Azure lights (for the purposes of this example, Blue Mage counts as an actual Mage). Sure, you can keep on doing those same gear swaps. But in the time it takes you to swap gears you can kill the monsters without the gear swaps.

Despite what macro junkies like to say, gear swaps aren't a panacea and it's something that needs to be done on a case-by-case basis.

Guess that depends on how your managing the gear swaps too....as in whether it's in the legit macro system or not. But even with having to use a swap macro first then fire the spell/WS/JA, you are only talking a split second. It doesn't take long to get your timing down in most cases. That's more an issue of paying attention and compensating.

[Demon6324236]

At the same time not every situation requires intensive gear swaps, either. Let's say you're a Mage-type character building Azure lights (for the purposes of this example, Blue Mage counts as an actual Mage). Sure, you can keep on doing those same gear swaps. But in the time it takes you to swap gears you can kill the monsters without the gear swaps.

Despite what macro junkies like to say, gear swaps aren't a panacea and it's something that needs to be done on a case-by-case basis.

I agree, in some cases gear swaps will not be needed, such as the one you speak, however this is only half true. You will likely do just as well as I if you had the same nuking set and such, but if I am quickly using a Fast Cast set with a proper amount of FC, my nukes will be better in the long run.

I do actually stay in my nuking set for the most part when building azure, just saying it is possible and better to use a FC set for pre-cast, then your nuking set stacked with MAB & INT for your actual cast itself.

RDM in and of itself in most uses it has in the game, is a very gear-centric job, thats why I said it, because without the ability to swap gear, RDM would be even more rejected than it is today due to losing much of its only trait it truly has left, flexibility.

[Trisscar]

You can't relate Abyssea content to content of olde that actually required you to gear swap.

Can't I really? A large part of Aby, despite what you like to believe, is an actual challenge and sometimes with monsters that can turn ugly at a moment's notice. In those situations I can see where gear swaps would be useful.

But let's assume for a moment that you're right, which you're not, how does that address my observation that gear swaps are better used as a case-by-case basis even in areas outside of Aby?

[Demon6324236]

Can't I really? A large part of Aby, despite what you like to believe, is an actual challenge and sometimes with monsters that can turn ugly at a moment's notice. In those situations I can see where gear swaps would be useful.

But let's assume for a moment that you're right, which you're not, how does that address my observation that gear swaps are better used as a case-by-case basis even in areas outside of Aby?

Because in abyssea you have atma and cruor buffs that can pick up the slack more than pieces of gear ever could. However I still don't agree with him, simply pointing out what I think hes getting at.

[Trisscar]

Guess that depends on how your managing the gear swaps too....as in whether it's in the legit macro system or not. But even with having to use a swap macro first then fire the spell/WS/JA, you are only talking a split second. It doesn't take long to get your timing down in most cases. That's more an issue of paying attention and compensating.

I might need help with the 'managing gear swaps' to be honest. I'm more or less new to swapping gear in for CDC. My current TP set gear has DEX +61 and my WS set has +80, it takes an agonizing six to seven seconds to macro in my WS set. Any advice on this for someone who isn't used to it?

My gear swap macros looks something like this:

/equip hands "pimp gloves" <me> <wait 1>
/equip ring1 "ring o' bling" <me>

[JiltedValkyrie]

I love Abyssea procs. Hm! I like Dynamis' more? Well, yes, yes I do. Don't care for VW.

[Dragoy]

[...]it takes an agonizing six to seven seconds to macro in my WS set. Any advice on this for someone who isn't used to it?

My gear swap macro looks something like this:

/equip hands "pimp gloves" <me> <wait 1>
/equip ring1 "Bling Ring" <me>

You do not need to add a 'wait' for those, neither do you need to wait for them to be actually visible on the character. ^^

You wouldn't need a <me> there either.

[Trisscar]

You do not need to add a 'wait' for those, neither do you need to wait for them to be actually visible on the character. ^^

You wouldn't need a <me> there either.

So remove the wait commands?

[Trisscar]

I love Abyssea procs. Hm! I like Dynamis' more? Well, yes, yes I do. Don't care for VW.

I don't see what people have against procs, to be honest. They're a good, tactical design that requires people to actually communicate in order to stand a reliable chance to have victory. I hope something like it makes a return in SoA.

At the same time, I wish Square would please reduce the absurd number of Blue Mage procs on Voidwatch. That would influence me to actually offer it outside of my shell.

[Dragoy]

So remove the wait commands?

Indeed.

Check

http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Macro
or

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Macro
or whatever your favourite fan-site would be for more details if you haven't stumbled upon them yet. ^^

[Habu]

>2012 >still don't know how macros work

[Demon6324236]

I love Abyssea procs. Hm! I like Dynamis' more? Well, yes, yes I do. Don't care for VW.

Abyssea didn't have enough procs, WAR & NIN having all red, MNK having most blue of a time frame, yellow being the only diverse one,.Dynamis is to bland on requirements, anything with /DNC can proc during JA times, or you focus on WS & JA mobs if in city areas. VW has to many procs, BLU is a good instance of it, need 2 to do it, or WSs where you have to gimp your damage to look for the 1 WS of the entire weapon category that procs. A perfect balance of these would make me happy, and be welcome.

[Demon6324236]

I don't see what people have against procs, to be honest. They're a good, tactical design that requires people to actually communicate in order to stand a reliable chance to have victory. I hope something like it makes a return in SoA.

At the same time, I wish Square would please reduce the absurd number of Blue Mage procs on Voidwatch. That would influence me to actually offer it outside of my shell.

Agreed, procs are honestly the only thing keeping the game from being nothing but zerg fights. At least when you need to proc there is a reason not to kill it in 30 seconds with all of the DDs rushing it.

[Trisscar]

>2012 >still don't know how gear swap macros work, because they aren't used to it.

Fixed that for you.

[Tamoa]

At the same time not every situation requires intensive gear swaps, either. Let's say you're a Mage-type character building Azure lights (for the purposes of this example, Blue Mage counts as an actual Mage). Sure, you can keep on doing those same gear swaps. But in the time it takes you to swap gears you can kill the monsters without the gear swaps.

Despite what macro junkies like to say, gear swaps aren't a panacea and it's something that needs to be done on a case-by-case basis.

There is a lot more to this game than Abyssea, seems a lot of people have forgotten that. Try soloing Proto-Ultima as blu like Draylo on Leviathan has, without gearswaps. I guarantee you you won't last long. Or anything where you don't have the atma(cite)/cruor buffs crutch to rely on.

[Trisscar]

There is a lot more to this game than Abyssea, seems a lot of people have forgotten that.

Funny but I seem to recall not making the assumption that there isn't anything more to the game than Aby. I even made the qualifier "even outside of Aby" when I said "it's something best done on a case-by-case basis".

You fail at reading comprehension. Go back and read again, this time for clarity. Do not pass Gilgamesh, do not collect 200 Gil.


Try soloing Proto-Ultima as blu like Draylo on Leviathan has, without gearswaps. I guarantee you you won't last long. Or anything where you don't have the atma(cite)/cruor buffs crutch to rely on.

And why would I do that? Besides which, I admire Draylo but I don't aspire to be like him. Being at the pinnacle must be tough and exhausting work. And there's plenty within the game I couldn't do on my own, and I acknowledge that.

[Karbuncle]

Acknowledging your own limitations, and Ignorance, are two different things.

Knowing you don't have the gear or skill to solo Proto-Ultima, is Acknowledging your current limitations.
Ignoring Macroing gear in a game designed around the concept is Ignorance.

Not saying this applies directly to you, I'm simply using what you said as an example to support the point. Its not a "Case by case" thing, Even building Azure light, You would be better off swapping to a Nuke set, then idling in some MP refresh between mobs.

Once you cap Azure, there's also farming Boxes...

Swapping to a Enhancing Magic, MND/Stoneskin Build to put up your Stoneskin/Blink/etc/Phalanx.
Swapping to PDT/Movement Speed to train mobs.
Swapping to Magic Accuracy to Sleepga
Swapping to Nuke-set to Aga them.
Swapping back to PDT/Macc to Sleep.
Rebuffing If needed.
Swap back to Nuke set to kill.

Gear swapping is a fundamental part of the game, Which you're free to not use, but its not something you can just turn on or off and still be a good player. There's nothing in this game that is optimally done by maintaining a single gear set. There's plenty that can be done in one gearset with little trouble, But not optimally...

the only thing that is considered each time you contemplate gear swapping or not during an event is how much effort do you want to put into it.

[Winrie]

Funny but I seem to recall not making the assumption that there isn't anything more to the game than Aby. I even made the qualifier "even outside of Aby" when I said "it's something best done on a case-by-case basis".

You fail at reading comprehension. Go back and read again, this time for clarity. Do not pass Gilgamesh, do not collect 200 Gil.



And why would I do that? Besides which, I admire Draylo but I don't aspire to be like him. Being at the pinnacle must be tough and exhausting work. And there's plenty within the game I couldn't do on my own, and I acknowledge that.

You seriously just need to stop posting lol. . .
Aside from that i think a lot of you forget that people are the main problem with all the ranting of botting, underhandedness, greed, or that elite kid back in 2007 'Picking on you' Perhaps the solution is to associate with better people or dont be around them at all. I think everyone has forgotten that these EXACT SAME ACTS happened in not only HNMs, but sky, sea, ect, everywhere, Singling out HNM is ignorant, Greed is greed and it happens everywhere on games like these, and not in one part, but all. No one here can tell me Abyssea doesnt hold the same similar greed factor, if anything higher output of gear makes the greedy worse. In a perfect world for many our HNMs were the only problem with the game and Abyssea was perfect.

[Randwolf]

>2012 >still don't know how macros work

1) Getting a job to 99 takes no time
2) Getting a job to 99 requires nothing more than killing mobs over and over (with very little chance for a wipe and some people afk for half the time)
3) Many of the newer people have done little outside of Abyssea. And in Abyssea you are way overpowered
4) Very few people are in shells now. It's pick-ups to kill things. So, the older, experienced members in a shell teaching the newer members how to get the most out of their jobs, does not exist

It would be nice if S/E (and it's too late to implement this without completely screwing up the community) made people take up their very first job the old-fashioned way. Or, if that is too time consuming, at least force them to go through a newb program where they could get rewards for learning and applying the basics. I've watched people (takes just a couple in an alliance) who do not know the basics take down an entire alliance with simple, avoidable mistakes.

[Aldersyde]

It would be nice if S/E (and it's too late to implement this without completely screwing up the community) made people take up their very first job the old-fashioned way. Or, if that is too time consuming, at least force them to go through a newb program where they could get rewards for learning and applying the basics. I've watched people (takes just a couple in an alliance) who do not know the basics take down an entire alliance with simple, avoidable mistakes.

I still don't understand how sitting around jeuno/WG with their flags up for hours (if they're on a undesirable job), and then targeting the weakest, squishiest, least threatening mob for that level for hours and hours...and then more hours of repetitive killing teaches anyone anything about endgame tactics. The old school method of leveling was bullshit. You learn endgame tactics by finding, studying, and applying information by a trial by fire, then learning from mistakes. Being willing to learn and actually possessing a moderate degree of reading comprehension are the only tools you really need to become a good player at this game. Killing pussy mobs over and over again? No, you don't need to do that to learn anything about endgame.

Countless people on this forum have said stuff along these lines, why do so many other people so adamantly believe otherwise?

Your second idea may have some merit but everyone has different concept of what "basic" skills really are. If you leave it up to SE though, they're going to make more tutorials on skill chains and magic bursts.

[wish12oz]

I'm a firm believer in people playing how they wish. You guys have literally no reason or right to tell me how to play :) if u want that right pay for my account.

I'll pay for your account if you move to Odin and play with my LS and do as I say. It would be fun to see if I could turn you into a competent player and teach you what you're doing wrong so you could excel and see the difference for yourself. Can message me on BG (Kamugi) or FFXI AH (Odin.Kaerin Odin.Kamugi) for more information if you like.

Plus it would probably be fun for people to watch on my stream =3

[Verytus]

Hey guys,

Unfortunately, I keep getting reports about this thread, so despite the fact that I don't want to, I'm going to have to close this thread out. Thanks for all of your opinions, but if you decide to relocate the discussion, please keep others' feelings in mind when you post. Passion is fine as long as it doesn't become personal attacks on others. Thank you.