Abyssea should have cap entry or rules

[seallux]

okay hi everyone this is like my second time posting this (first time gotten bit of error so didn't go through my forum speech maybe bit sloppy) this will be my logical rant about how has abyssea has ruined and the game and how are we going to go about fixing this problem by adding a simple clean adjustment. nothing to crazy i mean a simple adjustment that can save this final fantasy XI community.

first of all i'll explain all 3 bad parts of abyssea that has caused the 3 key points that ruined this game and its moral and then i'll add 3 good points that can be done to fix this problem.

1. Shout Party or "Leeching" has now been the norm. of todays world and normally you would have to play your job properly in order to get invited to a party or have the right qualities to be part of a group for experience points. Because of Leeching (which means dropping what ever job you have 30 and above into a random shout party or joining a leech party. until your job has reached 99) on 1 side its a good thing you don't have to waste time grinding till your at your max job level. but in the other hands its really bad thing because you've gotten your job completed without lifting a finger or taking the time to learn your job, and it will effect the people you team up with especially people that are part of a linkshell event.

2. Abyssea and shout groups have also made it quite easy to obtain Empyrean armor or weapons by simply shouting for one.On one side its good thing it shortens the time to getting the gear + weapons but other hand it makes people incredibly spoiled and selfish to making them think they should obtain all empyrean type gears just because how easy it was to getting the gear and getting lv 99s
(making it incredibly hard Ls to exist with people who don't want to stay long term. when they can do it themselfs by simply shouting)

3.Abyssea helping boost bad moral in servers.because the game is so easy to get simple objective done solo players have tendency to act on solo mentality basis and or act like a complete ass on daily basis to people who simply asked for help or a simple question, without thinking about the consequences of they'r actions. (this is due to the fact that they don't care about making enemies as long as get what they want and the game stays easy. they can always shout for members to help them get what ever item they need without fearing of ls kicking them out or a bad rep. hurting them.)

Now the good things we can do to fix this.
1. fix problem 1. by setting a Lv restriction or getting rid of the experience points gained through alliance partys.

2. to fix this problem make the monsters that drop the so-called gears and empyrean weapons a bit harder and challenging so it would take a skilled group to get your seals ,+2s and empyrean weapon items. so people can appreciate the time you put into getting your gears and helping making people to stay to 1-3 jobs most. (this also gives reason to give an link shell to exist like Dynamis)

3. by fixing problem 1 and 2 you can simply solve this by having more new content and making it bit harder than normal, and adding more areas for experience party can exist. That way people can fear about getting kicked out of linkshells or about getting bad reps because how bad they mistreat others.


well that is my take on how to fix abyssea and its problem . please thumbs up if you like this idea or post your ideas too

[Jackstin]

I actually love Abyssea. I don't think getting jobs relatively good should be this intimidating climb. If you get +1 armour then you're suddenly able to take on many more challenges in the game, especially old content that would otherwise be ignored. And there are hundreds of players who have learned their job amazingly from abyssea. One of the best WHM I've ever played with is an Abyssea newbie, and the reason is that to get from say +1 gear to being able to take on Rani and Raja as part of a team still required work. It's awesomely balanced and its the reason why Abyssea is still popular for things other than levellng today.

Having said that, Abyssea has taken a lot of people away from the main world. On Asura I still see loads of people doing other content, but Abyssea definitely has th monopoly. I think the solution is far easier than you are suggesting.

Increase minimum level of entry into Abyssea to level 60.

I don't see any reason why somebody sub 60 would want to go into abyssea other than leeching. Copled with better fields of valor across the world encouraging exploration, and I think it would help.

[Mnejing]

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh242/KanorasDragon/239-oh-look-its-this-thread-again.jpg

[wish12oz]

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh242/KanorasDragon/239-oh-look-its-this-thread-again.jpg

I was gonna post something like this, but all I have to do is quote it, thanks for the help!

[hiko]

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh242/KanorasDragon/239-oh-look-its-this-thread-again.jpg

I was gonna post something like this, but all I have to do is quote it, thanks for the help!
same thing.
(keep the quote chain going!!!!)

[sc4500]

abyssea is fine. It is the content that we been getting after abyssea that lacking and not equal to it thats the problem. example Like why can't we help people on lower city missions an get a rewards like a seal for someone city rank 5 mission ect.

Level cap on abyssea isnt the issue you can book burn just as fast to 99 in some cases faster then abyssea exp on boyahda tree alliance party when get a few lv99 to pull entire zone repeatly.

Whole new three area abyssea that had super hard mobs with great gear would have been cool and lv99 requirement to get into area. and most of the stuff you needed 2 to 16 people to get the stuff for awhile. every yr make it easier as they would add more content.

[SpankWustler]

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh242/KanorasDragon/239-oh-look-its-this-thread-again.jpgI was gonna post something like this, but all I have to do is quote it, thanks for the help!same thing.
(keep the quote chain going!!!!)

This Abyssea Thread IX: Vana'fest Edition!

[Mirage]

Yeah no. You see, OP, it's too late. Adding requirements for abyssea *now* will only do one thing, and that is make it harder for people who are new or returning to the game. It will create a huge divide between the players that have everything maxed and those who just got back and can't get any of that stuff as easily.

If Abyssea were going to get capped, it must have been done within the first month of its release, not over a year later.

[Hachiiiiii]

A'int nothing "logical" about this rant, bro.

Seriously, at this point with an actual expansion on the way, there's no reason to want those who are just now returning or newly joining (these people actually exist) to have a harder time catching up.

[cidbahamut]

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh242/KanorasDragon/239-oh-look-its-this-thread-again.jpg
I was gonna post something like this, but all I have to do is quote it, thanks for the help!

same thing.
(keep the quote chain going!!!!)

This Abyssea Thread IX: Vana'fest Edition!

I was coming here to post this exact thing, but you all beat me to the punch. Good job guys.

[Muse]

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh242/KanorasDragon/239-oh-look-its-this-thread-again.jpg

I was gonna post something like this, but all I have to do is quote it, thanks for the help!

same thing.
(keep the quote chain going!!!!)

This Abyssea Thread IX: Vana'fest Edition!

I was coming here to post this exact thing, but you all beat me to the punch. Good job guys.



1234567890


EDIT: Fixed the Quote Chain

[Vivik]

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh242/KanorasDragon/239-oh-look-its-this-thread-again.jpg

I chose my first post to be about something already debated to death and easily searchable. Yay look at me!!!!

[Zerich]

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh242/KanorasDragon/239-oh-look-its-this-thread-again.jpg

bless you1

[wish12oz]

way to break the quote chain guys =/

[Winrie]

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh242/KanorasDragon/239-oh-look-its-this-thread-again.jpg

Too little too late

[Limecat]

I still giggle when I remember my last normal exp pt down at Ronfaure lolibris. The Abyssea alliance exping method had just become common knowledge, and one of the guys was semi-raging about how everyone was getting exp too fast. I think everyone else in the pt gave him a /slap.

[Eurell]

So you guys are saying you didn't like 5k an hour EXP parties that disbanded when the healer logged off 2 seconds after getting to the camp, that took an hour to get everyone to? pffft

[HimuraKenshyn]

So you guys are saying you didn't like 5k an hour EXP parties that disbanded when the healer logged off 2 seconds after getting to the camp, that took an hour to get everyone to? pffft


Dude I totally miss the 3k per hour parties back in my day before merits before the burns hell before the na ps2 release lol......

[seallux]

well me excuse for offering the idea, that could help everyone. I forgot this forum had nothing but children on it that happen to act like 4chan people. >_> this explains... a lot... now.

[Eurell]

This thread has been made 546342687965387 times. ITs not everyone else's fault that you haven't looked.

And how exactly is making things harder helping people?

[Zerich]

well me excuse for offering the idea, that could help everyone. I forgot this forum had nothing but children on it that happen to act like 4chan people. >_> this explains... a lot... now.

no need for name-calling just because people have organized to disagree with you bro.

[seallux]

well in my post i said i just joined so i wouldn't know any of that i just got attacked out of nowhere for posting something...for the first time,

and also yeah i know it makes things harder for new people who would just return but if something isn't done the problem would just stay there. thats all i'm saying

[Mirage]

Sure is a lot of false dilemma in here. Wanting caps in abyssea doesn't automatically mean you also want slow exp elsewhere.

EXPing everywhere else would be fine if the leveling speed outside was also significantly increased.

[seallux]

Sure is a lot of false dilemma in here. Wanting caps in abyssea doesn't automatically mean you also want slow exp elsewhere.

EXPing everywhere else would be fine if the leveling speed outside was also significantly increased.

thank you some else gets me ! ^^ yeah

[Eurell]

well in my post i said i just joined so i wouldn't know any of that i just got attacked out of nowhere for posting something...for the first time,

and also yeah i know it makes things harder for new people who would just return but if something isn't done the problem would just stay there. thats all i'm saying

If you just joined, take a second and look at some previous threads to make sure something hasn't been beaten to death. People also disagree with you that there's a problem at all with abyssea (in the way you stated), so no fix is needed to a lot of people.




Sure is a lot of false dilemma in here. Wanting caps in abyssea doesn't automatically mean you also want slow exp elsewhere.

EXPing everywhere else would be fine if the leveling speed outside was also significantly increased.

If EXP comes that fast, you still won't have time to learn your job any better than leeching it in abyssea, which was his main problem with abyssea exp. This has been stated before but, bad players have always been bad. Plenty of people made it to 75 before ToAU came out and still had no clue about how their job should be played. A good player can pick up a job, read up on it in forums, and be ready to go in a day.

[C50802160]

Honestly learning your job is not that hard, there's plenty of guides online and just because ur leveling normally doesn't mean you are automatically good at that job anyway, So that's not a valid point.

Next the only problem with abyssea partying is the rediculous amount of money people make you pay to be in one, lmao 1 mil per hour? no thanks I'll solo grind before that >.>

[Mirabelle]

well in my post i said i just joined so i wouldn't know any of that i just got attacked out of nowhere for posting something...for the first time,

and also yeah i know it makes things harder for new people who would just return but if something isn't done the problem would just stay there. thats all i'm saying

Since when does "being disagreed with" = "being attacked"?
Just because everyone took a contrary opinion to yours doesn't mean you are being attacked.

I still think Abyssea was largely the best designed expansion (without being an actual expansion) yet. While it was light on story it was fulfilling in a sense of progression to a goal. It's proc'ing mechanism could have been better designed so as not to be restrictive of certain jobs for sure. But it offered a bunch of great gears, varied NM's, proc'ing strategy, character building. And it never took 700 NM kills to get something useful (thank you VW).

There are two types of game players. Those that prefer the "fail-fail-fail-fail-WIN!!!" lottery style of game design (picture old ladies at Vegas slots) or those that prefer "minor victory - minor victory - minor victory - Eventual goal" steady progression style of game design. one style definitely gives a huge adrenalin rush but also has hours of failure whereas the otehr is less exciting but has numerous small satisfying moments along the way.

Abyssea, Einherjar, Limbus original Nyzul are the latter type events. Land Kings, VW, Nyzul 2.0, Legion, 24 hr spawn NM's are the former. Each has their proponents and detractors. I like gradual but steady progression to a goal rather than the hours of dreariness only occasionally punctuated by a lucky win. But that's me.

Leave abyssea as it is.

[svengalis]

well me excuse for offering the idea, that could help everyone. I forgot this forum had nothing but children on it that happen to act like 4chan people. >_> this explains... a lot... now.

Problem is this isn't going to help anyone. Most people are done with abyssea and only go back to farm emp or +2. You couldn't find parties b4 abyssea what makes you think you could after these changes? Honestly the only thing I think that would help new people explore more is if SE added experience points to all quest that way people would actually do em.

[seallux]

If you just joined, take a second and look at some previous threads to make sure something hasn't been beaten to death. People also disagree with you that there's a problem at all with abyssea (in the way you stated), so no fix is needed to a lot of people.




If EXP comes that fast, you still won't have time to learn your job any better than leeching it in abyssea, which was his main problem with abyssea exp. This has been stated before but, bad players have always been bad. Plenty of people made it to 75 before ToAU came out and still had no clue about how their job should be played. A good player can pick up a job, read up on it in forums, and be ready to go in a day.

umm no if there were partys that offered just as much exp. as much abyssea did i'm pretty sure you wouldn't get away with leeching because you would be forced to play your job and if you afk 3+ hrs you would get kicked.

[cidbahamut]

well me excuse for offering the idea, that could help everyone absolutely no one at all.
Fixed that for you.

[FrankReynolds]

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh242/KanorasDragon/239-oh-look-its-this-thread-again.jpg

123456789 This thread is friggin retarded. Abyssea is great.

http://i.qkme.me/3pshqs.jpg

[Eurell]

umm no if there were partys that offered just as much exp. as much abyssea did i'm pretty sure you wouldn't get away with leeching because you would be forced to play your job and if you afk 3+ hrs you would get kicked.


Engaging and doing nothing else for 99 levels doesn't teach you anything. You actually have to try to know what you are doing, which you can do even on a leeched job by spending an hour asking questions on a forum.

I'm also going to assume you have never hard of GoV, because it basically contradicts your entire response.

[seallux]

Fixed that for you.
Lol har har very funny,

[seallux]

Engaging and doing nothing else for 99 levels doesn't teach you anything. You actually have to try to know what you are doing, which you can do even on a leeched job by spending an hour asking questions on a forum.

I'm also going to assume you have never hard of GoV, because it basically contradicts your entire response.


umm no i have heard of GoV FYI, was thinking maybe they could atleast do something to help boost outside partys maybe that help increase player base to party outside of abyssea, and learn they'r jobs making you fight harder mobs (i know they'r aren't any stronger monsters outside of abyssea mean later if they update it to helping our situation)

[Twille]

Lazy players are still lazy players whether they leveled up in Abyssea, GoV or the "old fashioned" way.

[Muse]

umm no i have heard of GoV FYI, was thinking maybe they could atleast do something to help boost outside partys maybe that help increase player base to party outside of abyssea, and learn they'r jobs making you fight harder mobs (i know they'r aren't any stronger monsters outside of abyssea mean later if they update it to helping our situation)

So, you're saying that people that burn to 75+ in Gusgen mines are better then people in abyssea?

The players in gusgen are still "learning" nothing of their jobs except how to click on a monster and engage. And considering the party has to stay sync'd below level 30, you're not learning or gaining anything from it. So this point is moot now.

And they did do something to try to get people to party outside of abyssea. They increased the exp gained from monsters, but it will not compete with abyssea.



Lazy players are still lazy players whether they leveled up in Abyssea, GoV or the "old fashioned" way.

^ So true.

[Behemothx]

OP: You're a year and ten months too late on this thread man.

I just don't get what people have against leveling fast, it's not like the core of the game depends on you leveling up jobs.

[Zerich]

umm no i have heard of GoV FYI, was thinking maybe they could atleast do something to help boost outside partys maybe that help increase player base to party outside of abyssea, and learn they'r jobs making you fight harder mobs (i know they'r aren't any stronger monsters outside of abyssea mean later if they update it to helping our situation)

they did up exp outside of aby...you seem to not know the general make-up of people who are generally leeching.
the majority have played these jobs before and usually have gear waiting for them when they ding 89~90.
and why should it make a difference that they were burned?
you can easily argue that leeching began when level sync was implemented, and that someone wouldn't be able to enter x-area until they are y-level. (here's looking at you korroloka tunnel)

[cidbahamut]

It looks like the OP didn't learn his job terribly well, maybe he's hoping others will learn from his mistakes?
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Ragnarok/Bakura
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/261186

[Jackstin]

I don't see why levelling is such an issue.

So you see a level 99 in Perle Gear, do you automatically think, lets get him in our VW dynamis sky party!? No, you may let them but you know that they're still relatively inexperiences.

For them to get the +1 and + 2 they're going to have to learn their jobs. Either that or they're going to have to be on their second major job which would suggest they lready know the game quite well.

There's always going to be bad players, but to me, the idea that someone can just leech to 99 and somehow get a load of awesome non purchasable gear and still not know how to play the game at all is ridiculous.

I think its just bitterness at people who have had to do levelling the hard way, not liking that its become so easy for everyone else.

[wish12oz]

I don't see why levelling is such an issue.



http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/261186

I figured it out. He has a Maats cap and he's upset people can get it for way less effort than him.

[svengalis]

The only thing wrong with Abyssea is they need to get rid of this stupid 10-15- whatever time spawn NM. It's just so dumb. I can't even do what I want to do because I can't claim a NM because it is overcamped. They should make all NM spawnable by trading some kind of item to a ??? Doesn't SE see these kind of things do not make people play longer. These artificial time sinks do nothing but make people cancel their subscriptions.

[Vivik]

I figured it out. He has a Maats cap and he's upset people can get it for way less effort than him.

Hey now. He did it the old school way..... smn burning!

[Xantavia]

OP: You're a year and ten months too late on this thread man.

I just don't get what people have against leveling fast, it's not like the core of the game depends on you leveling up jobs.
What gets to me is when they level fast, but then don't bother spending the time to get skills up to cap (and then spend time complaining it takes too long to skill up) They hop on the flavor of the month job to get an abyssea invite, then don't have the procs they were invited to get. It used to be assumed that a 75 player would have their weapons close to cap and mages all their spells. Now it seems to be a crapshoot whether somebody leveled the job because they wanted to, or leveled it just because they could.

I also feel its bad to tell a brand new player to GoV in gusgen to 30, then leech in abyssea til cap. I think it hurts them from the standpoint of not exploring the world. Then when it comes time to do any missions, they have no OP warps, no tele crystals except dem, and don't have any idea where zones are located.

[nyheen]

what wrong with having a lvl cap 70 in abyssea? seriously if that place was lvl caped it would force people into pting etc in Conquest, white gate, would be way more people looking for pt and not just the leech/key bs. seems like the people that disagree just want to leech to the top. iam not saying abyssea a bad place but at lvl 30 yes.

[Anapingofness]

What gets to me is when they level fast, but then don't bother spending the time to get skills up to cap (and then spend time complaining it takes too long to skill up) They hop on the flavor of the month job to get an abyssea invite, then don't have the procs they were invited to get. It used to be assumed that a 75 player would have their weapons close to cap and mages all their spells. Now it seems to be a crapshoot whether somebody leveled the job because they wanted to, or leveled it just because they could.

I also feel its bad to tell a brand new player to GoV in gusgen to 30, then leech in abyssea til cap. I think it hurts them from the standpoint of not exploring the world. Then when it comes time to do any missions, they have no OP warps, no tele crystals except dem, and don't have any idea where zones are located.

Not necessarily true.
Gear/Spells mattered for two reasons, one being more important than the other.
1. Traditional Exp Setup
2. Endgame

Since leveling is so quick now most people don't bother to keep up with gear and spells until they're done leveling or meet personal goals.

However, that only means that the standards for endgame are still there. The players who do endgame have the same expectations of other players now as they did back in the day.

To be perfectly honest, I've ran into so many poorly geared or even naked people back in the day. Most notoriously were hot shot newbies who would play WHM naked. I knew a thf who simply refused to wear a SH. One of my old endgame shells had a blm who joined wearing melee gear, including ACC+ belt. Needless to say he didn't stay very long.

That's just the tip of the iceberg with how lazy people can be.


Lazy players are still lazy players whether they leveled up in Abyssea, GoV or the "old fashioned" way.

^ In the end, truer words were never spoken.

[SpankWustler]

what wrong with having a lvl cap 70 in abyssea?

If such a cap had been implemented when the first Abyssea expansion hit, nothing. That would be the normal thing. I'd be drinking twice as much just thinking about the kind of people I would meet while leveling Geomancer or Rune Fencer next year. That's just me, though. A lot of people would be cool with it. Some people would be happy with it.

If such a cap were suddenly implemented now? That would suck the biggest, oldest, droopiest, most vinegary balls to ever hang low. Good luck making several hundred parties with 2 Rune Fencers and 3 Geomancers and 1 Puppetmaster each next year because many jobs that have even a niche use were leveled by many people while they were at work.

Plus, a cap just would not do that weird thing many people want it to do. I don't know why anyone thinks it could do such a thing.

This is because nothing can make people who are dedicated to playing Final Fantasy XI badly into people who are dedicated to playing Final Fantasy XI well. That is a personal decision. At best, it would increase the bare minimum from "This horribly terribly horrible player is terribly horribly terrible at everything." to "This Dancer/Thief in AGI rings who uses only Hand-to-Hand weapons has surprisingly high Hand-to-Hand skill. I can really tell he's been honing this brand of gross incompetence for a while!"

[Tamoa]

Yeah no. You see, OP, it's too late. Adding requirements for abyssea *now* will only do one thing, and that is make it harder for people who are new or returning to the game. It will create a huge divide between the players that have everything maxed and those who just got back and can't get any of that stuff as easily.

If Abyssea were going to get capped, it must have been done within the first month of its release, not over a year later.


This. Abyssea has been out for almost 2 years, and while my views on its impact on FFXI has changed somewhat in the last year, and I'm more inclined to agree with those saying the cap should have been higher - it's far too late.

Also, as others have already pointed out - this subject has been beaten to death over and over and over on this forum.

[hiko]

umm no i have heard of GoV FYI, was thinking maybe they could atleast do something to help boost outside partys maybe that help increase player base to party outside of abyssea, and learn they'r jobs making you fight harder mobs (i know they'r aren't any stronger monsters outside of abyssea mean later if they update it to helping our situation)

People have never fight "harder mobs" for xp, they have always targeted the weakest mobs that give enough XP. Crabs before aht urghan, colibri after aht urgahn and it went worst with lvl sync :it became lvl sync qufim crab=>37(or just SMN burned) then lvl sync colibri (with 37/50ish/75 cap camp)

[hideka]

Sure is a lot of false dilemma in here. Wanting caps in abyssea doesn't automatically mean you also want slow exp elsewhere.

EXPing everywhere else would be fine if the leveling speed outside was also significantly increased.

FOV and GOV make leveling up a cinch outside of abyssea. i agree with level capping abysea to 70 for entry.

[Randwolf]

To implement this (raising Abyssea level cap) now is closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. Move on.

[Zerich]

It looks like the OP didn't learn his job terribly well, maybe he's hoping others will learn from his mistakes?
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Ragnarok/Bakura
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/261186

can anyone decipher when that set would ever be used?
because i am so confused.

[SpankWustler]

can anyone decipher when that set would ever be used?

Somebody who is super-serious about Blue Mage accidentally ingested a poisonous substance. Vomiting must be induced to save a life!

[Godofgods]

As iv said many times before.

Yes: aby should have had a lvl cap around 70 when it was first introduced. However it is far to late to add one now. In fact, it would probably do more harm then good now. We have become used to aby leveling. I don't think ppl will ever want to go back...

[FrankReynolds]

When I go to an event, I don't want to be in a party with the white mage who just spent 3 months curing a paladin and helping the thief pull crabs with dia. I want to be in the party with the white mage who burned his to 99 in 1 day and spent the last 3 months building out gear sets and fighting notorious monsters.

[Teraniku]

When I go to an event, I don't want to be in a party with the white mage who just spent 3 months curing a paladin and helping the thief pull crabs with dia. I want to be in the party with the white mage who burned his to 99 in 1 day and spent the last 3 months building out gear sets and fighting notorious monsters.

Personally, I'd rather have the WHM who learned the job doing old school Dynamis, than either of those. Gear is great, but give me someone who knows which Status Ailments are necessary to remove, knows how to Conserve MP and rest if necessary and can make the difference between winning and losing a Mission / Story fight.

[Kyuukyuu]

As a newer player on a console platform (360), I'm thrilled that SE has made it possible for me and other newbs to catch up on a decade of missions and allow us the option to level and use a wide breadth of jobs that we would otherwise not be able to do if we hadn't picked the game up Day 1 back in 2002. I'll be one of those "leechers" you speak of at some point, but I'm quite content to build a character to at least lvl 75 by normal means and enjoy what my jobs have to offer before diving headfirst into Abyssea. It's comforting to know that SE is still supporting the game for long-standing players while still making it accessible to newer crowds as well.

[Jirachi]

I think it is too late for abyssea level cap, but it should have had one maybe at 65 just like old school dyna, heres what ive noticed, i leveled WHM in old school parties and now do VW and Abyssea with aby leeched WHMs. ive noticed diffrences like:
1) They dont keep reraise up. and then tell the paladin or ninja they suck when they get 1 shot.
2) They dont keep buffs on correctly
3) Their buffs wear off after a short period of time due to bad skills.
4) They run out of MP and stand there like an idiot waiting for something to happen.
i AM not the best whm but i would much rather have one that at least partied until level 50 so they knew what the abilities were, and ied much rather have a PLD that knew how to play the job well, over a Ninja who leeched up slapped on Empy+2 and a Kannagi.

[Komori]

Implement the 75 cap; I don't mind exping either way. (My LS mates did EXP the traiditional way the other night and with rings and chains going, were getting 1k exp per kill)

But just remember that most people have all jobs to 99 or the jobs they want to play there already.

Only jobs that aren't at 99 for me yet is DRK, SAM, COR and RNG. But DRK, COR and RNG already have decent to generally ok gear. They just need a few days or so in the Boyahda Tree etc.

[cidbahamut]

I think it is too late for abyssea level cap, but it should have had one maybe at 65 just like old school dyna, heres what ive noticed, i leveled WHM in old school parties and now do VW and Abyssea with aby leeched WHMs. ive noticed diffrences like:
1) They dont keep reraise up. and then tell the paladin or ninja they suck when they get 1 shot.
2) They dont keep buffs on correctly
3) Their buffs wear off after a short period of time due to bad skills.
4) They run out of MP and stand there like an idiot waiting for something to happen.

These people were just as numerous if not more so before Abyssea came out.

Nothing has changed.

Stop using this argument. It has been so thoroughly debunked in so many threads that you just paint a target on your face by using it.

[Mirage]

Then why don't you just exp the old way then?

Doesn't matter for the others what you do.

[Zerich]

I think it is too late for abyssea level cap, but it should have had one maybe at 65 just like old school dyna, heres what ive noticed, i leveled WHM in old school parties and now do VW and Abyssea with aby leeched WHMs. ive noticed diffrences like:
1) They dont keep reraise up. and then tell the paladin or ninja they suck when they get 1 shot.
2) They dont keep buffs on correctly
3) Their buffs wear off after a short period of time due to bad skills.
4) They run out of MP and stand there like an idiot waiting for something to happen.
i AM not the best whm but i would much rather have one that at least partied until level 50 so they knew what the abilities were, and ied much rather have a PLD that knew how to play the job well, over a Ninja who leeched up slapped on Empy+2 and a Kannagi.

which buffs last longer with the appropriate skills leveled...i'm curious

[nyheen]

Then why don't you just exp the old way then?

Doesn't matter for the others what you do.
well you see the problem is there little to no people looking for pt cause they wanna leech abyssea. and why everyone keep saying abyssea didn change nothing. you guys saying that it was way more people leeching before that?

[Anapingofness]

well you see the problem is there little to no people looking for pt cause they wanna leech abyssea. and why everyone keep saying abyssea didn change nothing. you guys saying that it was way more people leeching before that?

The so called "problem" is that little to no people want to go back to the way it was. I sure as hell don't. It took too long to level, far too long. 5k an hr was what a decent pt could pull in. Parties with the best camp, rdm, and brd got 5k+ an hr of exp, usually around 10k unless they were something else.

Even as bad as that was back in the day you still had people who leeched. People leeching is nothing new and to be perfectly honest, Abyssea didn't change that fact. It's just more noticed now because you can see it happening with an alliance rather than noticing it in individual parties.

But you are right in one part, Abyssea did change things. It changed them for the better. The grind has been cut down considerably. It allowed players to get gear that is basically a middle ground between grinding and endgame. It used to be much harder to outfit yourself back in the day before trying to do endgame because of how things were. Lastly, it made things much more casual.

As much as people bitch and moan about how presently everything is "easy mode" they need to realize that time consuming does not equal more difficult. Very few things were difficult in the "good old days" but they sure as hell were more time consuming. People seriously need to stop looking at the "good old days" with rose colored glasses because they're only fooling themselves.

There is a new standard for the modern MMO and the way FFXI used to be is not it.

That being said, as others have mentioned it... it's too late for that level cap increase and even if it wasn't, I'd be totally against it for the simple fact that people who want to leech, will leech and those who don't want to, won't. People simply need to stop being lazy and look up information on the job they're playing.

Personally, I tried the aby alliances and the gov alliances. I didn't like them. I didn't like not doing much to nothing so I opt to solo or duo GOV with a friend. Yes, it is a little slower to level that way but to be perfectly honest it is what works for me.

[Gingerhurricane]

The only fix i could possibly come up with to fix that so called gap of lvl'ing old school instead of abyssea, is for Adoulin expansion should have areas with mobs you can "exp" on at 99 and rewards you with a different set of "points" to go towards something like a new merit category that only those points can be used on. That or some type of different reward system so that people will get back to old school leveling. I for one am a leech in abyssea whenever i feel a need to play a new job, I then bring it to a couple of events, learn to play it correctly, maybe ask someone who's main is that job a couple questions, and thats it. 7 years later i do not have the time investment to level the old fashioned way anyways. But i could find time to kill 2 hours killing mobs EXP style in new areas if its remotely rewarding. Just saying

[FrankReynolds]

Personally, I'd rather have the WHM who learned the job doing old school Dynamis, than either of those. Gear is great, but give me someone who knows which Status Ailments are necessary to remove, knows how to Conserve MP and rest if necessary and can make the difference between winning and losing a Mission / Story fight.

That's what I'm talking about. Do people want the guy who has been doing Dynamis / VW / Sky / Sea / missions / quests (this is where gear comes from) on his 99 whm for the last 3 months? Or the guy who just dinged 99 by playing in parties that consist of tank, healer, dd X 4 (a set up that you will almost never use post 99) in his auction house gear? And what is he gonna learn about buffing and removing debuffs when he's fighting crabs and colibri anyways?

I want my DDs learning how to build out WS / TP / -DMG sets etc. and learning when to use them. I don't want them wasting time learning to line up so the thief can SATA the Paladin, or holding their TP for a awesome skillchain (weeee!) so that the red mage can magic burst thunder II.

[Arcon]

And what is he gonna learn about buffing and removing debuffs when he's fighting crabs and colibri anyways?

That is the major flaw in the whole "experience through leveling" argument. When people are EXPing, the goal is not to get actual experience, but to get experience points for their character. And that's done best on easy targets. That's why EXP parties almost always pick the easiest mobs that are available. That means no nasty status effects, no nasty AoE moves, no damage immunities, no terror moves, no hate reset, nothing of the fancy stuff that people will be exposed to constantly during actual endgame, which is actually meant to be challenging content, so in other words the exact opposite from EXP targets. Those are two conceptually entirely different contents, experience in the former will mean nothing in the latter.

[HimuraKenshyn]

If your not going to do your homework on your job it won't matter how long it takes to get to the cap. I knew plenty of bad players that took years to level they was bad back in the day they sucked then and suck now. Why they refuse to do the research and learn the job the truth is xp parties isn't the best teacher experience doing big things is having ur ass handed to you learning what to do and what not to do to win is that experience isn't learned in a old school xp merit party at all. Doing big events over and over is where the rubber meets the road.

[saevel]

People still make these posts .... damn thought they would of died out already.

Summary answer: NO we're not going to play the way you want to play. We don't want to be forced to play the way you want to play. And we most certainly don't want people with brains the size of kumquats telling us we're doing it wrong for level up so many jobs so fast.

[Avina]

Experience points should removed from the game. I'm dead serious.

I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here, since I personally I don't want experience points to go, and I don't like abyssea burning and never have, but from a practical standpoint there is utterly no point to experience points anymore.

The point of experience points was established in order to create a sort of gradual curve of progression, to lengthen the game and to highlight individuals who were able to make it to the top. A fully merited job at level 75, well geared, was a big deal, and they got extra props. Along the exp path you met people, you skilled up, it facilitated learning your job and in particular it taught players how to make quick decisions when faced with difficult scenarios (I say facilitated, obviously you can learn to play your job otherwise and its not only in exp party).

What we have now is level a job to 30, and jump into an abyssea party. The climb to level 30 is nothing more than a required step to get into Abyssea, you won't learn your job in that period because the abilities you get from 30-99 will vastly change how you play the job. People just burn in Gusgen and every job is a DD, then you go and you AFK in Abyssea while the rest of the exping is done for you.

Why should experience points be removed? Because the 1-98 block has become a waste of time. A game should not include so much content where it becomes "Okay, now go and sit in an abyssea party while we level you to 99." Why? It's unnecessary. Fix it, or cut it out. People should ding to 99 the moment they create their character, or unlock a new job. Because I cannot see how that would be any different in terms of how exping happens now with burning aside from it removing a massive waste of time.

[Xantavia]

Experience points should removed from the game. I'm dead serious.

Why should experience points be removed? Because the 1-98 block has become a waste of time. A game should not include so much content where it becomes "Okay, now go and sit in an abyssea party while we level you to 99." Why? It's unnecessary. Fix it, or cut it out. People should ding to 99 the moment they create their character, or unlock a new job. Because I cannot see how that would be any different in terms of how exping happens now with burning aside from it removing a massive waste of time.
I can kinda agree with this, but make it an option. When you create a character or unlock a job, you have the choice to either have it start at 1 or 99. However, if you start at 99, it is indicated on your player someway (star by the name or whatever). That way people have a better idea who they want to invite. The guy who started at 1 and worked his way up, or the guy who started at 99. (for whatever his reason was). That way, we can separate the 'smart' and the 'dumb' players, though nobody will agree which is which.

[Damane]

oh god why this again.... if you want to go make traditional pts, go make them. Noones forcing you to do aby exp pts, dont try to force somethign you WANT on other peoples

Besides they were plenty of peoples in the olde days that didnt know how to play their job either

[Twille]

Leveling to 99 the "old" way will have NOTHING to do with a player's skill at that particular job. Think of it this way, who do you want in your party,

A) the guy who just tagged 99 after 6 months of fighting in low-level parties, who has no ability/spell specific gear because they haven't had time during their rush to 99.

or

B) the guy who's been level 99 for the last 6 months, working on perfecting their gear sets for all the different abilities their job has.

Old school parties make no difference in skill level. Period.

[nyheen]

so in other words people just wanna leech now? so it much fun leeching and afk 30-99? how is that challenging?
i remember having fun lvling in Bibiki Bay dying to bomb toss and trying to deal with 3+ IT links,
Kazham pts mandys spaming sleep and that 1 gob always seems to kill me first near the zone><

Garlaige Citadel pullers falling in holes and bat links to deal with

sky/moon (Ro'Maeve) was a pain but fun

Kuftal Tunnel good pt spot till wyvern NM pop his head in>.>

King Ranperre's Tomb bone burn pts! but watch out for the hp low

Bhaflau Thickets bird pts! once in while links happens:)

Caedarva Mire imp/toad pts! was fun and bit challenging at time when mages/tanks not watching what they doing>.>

etc list goes on. with all the exp boost updates that happen over the time it alot better, but now since abyssea came out and 30+ can enter THAT when the leeching being. not saying abyssea bad but that lvl 30+ hurting it alot.
oh well iam happy i had my fun before people started to leech

[svengalis]

which buffs last longer with the appropriate skills leveled...i'm curious

The bar spells are the only ones I can think of.

[svengalis]

well you see the problem is there little to no people looking for pt cause they wanna leech abyssea. and why everyone keep saying abyssea didn change nothing. you guys saying that it was way more people leeching before that?

Nope its just that you couldn't find the right party set up before abyssea either no whm or no tank.

[Zerich]

The bar spells are the only ones I can think of.

i was under the impression that enhancing magic only enhanced the potency of the intended bar-effect of the spell.

only time i can think of a spell wearing early is if the mob has a stronger slow than your haste, or if you cast a high level spell on a low level character.

[svengalis]

Those parties were awesome if you could actually find a party. You guys just fail to understand the game is not the same anymore not enough people still play for those parties to work anymore.
so in other words people just wanna leech now? so it much fun leeching and afk 30-99? how is that challenging?
i remember having fun lvling in Bibiki Bay dying to bomb toss and trying to deal with 3+ IT links,
Kazham pts mandys spaming sleep and that 1 gob always seems to kill me first near the zone><

Garlaige Citadel pullers falling in holes and bat links to deal with

sky/moon (Ro'Maeve) was a pain but fun

Kuftal Tunnel good pt spot till wyvern NM pop his head in>.>

King Ranperre's Tomb bone burn pts! but watch out for the hp low

Bhaflau Thickets bird pts! once in while links happens:)

Caedarva Mire imp/toad pts! was fun and bit challenging at time when mages/tanks not watching what they doing>.>

etc list goes on. with all the exp boost updates that happen over the time it alot better, but now since abyssea came out and 30+ can enter THAT when the leeching being. not saying abyssea bad but that lvl 30+ hurting it alot.
oh well iam happy i had my fun before people started to leech

[Avina]

I can kinda agree with this, but make it an option. When you create a character or unlock a job, you have the choice to either have it start at 1 or 99. However, if you start at 99, it is indicated on your player someway (star by the name or whatever). That way people have a better idea who they want to invite. The guy who started at 1 and worked his way up, or the guy who started at 99. (for whatever his reason was). That way, we can separate the 'smart' and the 'dumb' players, though nobody will agree which is which.

Why bother to differentiate when there is no difference? Why set one apart? Is the guy who gusgen burns to then and then Abyssea burns to 99 really going to be any different at all compared to the guy who started his job fresh at level 99? There's no smart and dumb and that equation. There's a player who wasted time to get the same effect. Remember though, I miss old school parties. But there is no logic to experience points anymore with the game is currently set up. And I disagree that players take nothing from the old school ways of leveling up with the rampant abundance of untalented 99s I see running around. I'm not saying it makes 100% the difference, or even 50%. But it did something.


Leveling to 99 the "old" way will have NOTHING to do with a player's skill at that particular job. Think of it this way, who do you want in your party,

A) the guy who just tagged 99 after 6 months of fighting in low-level parties, who has no ability/spell specific gear because they haven't had time during their rush to 99.

or

B) the guy who's been level 99 for the last 6 months, working on perfecting their gear sets for all the different abilities their job has.

Old school parties make no difference in skill level. Period.

That argument is nonsense. Of course, any player dinging to 99, no matter how they got there, isn't going to be as good as someone who got to that level six months earlier and has had the time to perfect their gear. Would you invite someone who just spent 24 hours getting BLM from level 1 to 99 because they burned their way? No, of course you wouldn't. You'd pick the guy who has been the job longer. That has nothing to do with how they chose to exp. You are trying to skew the debate to somehow say "Because this guy just leveled to 99, because he exped slow, he sucks" when all you are really saying is "He got the job to 99 six months ago, so he's better than a newly dinged 99." Well, YEAH. He should be.

[FrankReynolds]

so in other words people just wanna leech now? so it much fun leeching and afk 30-99? how is that challenging?
i remember having fun lvling in Bibiki Bay dying to bomb toss and trying to deal with 3+ IT links,
Kazham pts mandys spaming sleep and that 1 gob always seems to kill me first near the zone><

Garlaige Citadel pullers falling in holes and bat links to deal with

sky/moon (Ro'Maeve) was a pain but fun

Kuftal Tunnel good pt spot till wyvern NM pop his head in>.>

King Ranperre's Tomb bone burn pts! but watch out for the hp low

Bhaflau Thickets bird pts! once in while links happens:)

Caedarva Mire imp/toad pts! was fun and bit challenging at time when mages/tanks not watching what they doing>.>

etc list goes on. with all the exp boost updates that happen over the time it alot better, but now since abyssea came out and 30+ can enter THAT when the leeching being. not saying abyssea bad but that lvl 30+ hurting it alot.
oh well iam happy i had my fun before people started to leech

What does me leeching have to do with you? Your welcome to make old school 6 man parties with the 5 other people who think that is fun, if they really exist. I'm pretty sure people say they like the old methods, then go and burn their jobs just like the rest of us. I personally found leveling the first job to be a fun experience. The second job got a little tiresome. The third, fourth, fifth............. screw that.

I've leveled white mage on three characters now. There is no way in hell I am gonna learn anything new about it by being in a level 40 beetle party when I level it on my fourth character.



That argument is nonsense. Of course, any player dinging to 99, no matter how they got there, isn't going to be as good as someone who got to that level six months earlier and has had the time to perfect their gear. Would you invite someone who just spent 24 hours getting BLM from level 1 to 99 because they burned their way? No, of course you wouldn't. You'd pick the guy who has been the job longer. That has nothing to do with how they chose to exp. You are trying to skew the debate to somehow say "Because this guy just leveled to 99, because he exped slow, he sucks" when all you are really saying is "He got the job to 99 six months ago, so he's better than a newly dinged 99." Well, YEAH. He should be.

Yeah, he should be better... so... why would you pick the guy who just dinged?

The bottom line is this: you either spend you time in xp parties, or you spend your time doing things on a 99 character. If you like not being 99, then by all means... stay at a lower level as long as you want.

[Anapingofness]

I can kinda agree with this, but make it an option. When you create a character or unlock a job, you have the choice to either have it start at 1 or 99. However, if you start at 99, it is indicated on your player someway (star by the name or whatever). That way people have a better idea who they want to invite. The guy who started at 1 and worked his way up, or the guy who started at 99. (for whatever his reason was). That way, we can separate the 'smart' and the 'dumb' players, though nobody will agree which is which.

I can see where Avina is coming from, oddly enough. However, I see no point in marking people for choosing the level 99 option since Avina makes a good point.

What would be the purpose of marking players who choose lvl1 over lvl 99 starting character? Marking those people would just create unnecessary drama in the game and divide the already divided community even more. There is nothing "smart" about the person who (in this scenario) would have picked the level 1 character. Likewise, there is nothing "dumb" about a player who picked the level 99 character. You're right, people won't agree on which is the more practical choice but that's none of my concern at the moment.

Leeching exp and afking for hours while doing so is equivalent to doing nothing. Even those who are not afking in exp alliances aren't learning much since they're restricted by level or by the monotony.

Don't get me wrong, exp parties did serve a role but they did not make or break a player. Each player is responsible for themselves, you cannot blame an outside force such as exp party, lack of exp party, or abyssea/gov alliances for that matter. That being said, it really doesn't matter how a person reached level 99 if they're not willing to do some research on how to play their job correctly.

Mind you, I'm not saying go give people level 99 characters.

[Scuro]

If you don't like Abyssea Burns, don't use them, there are still many ways of solo, duo, trio, static'n to get exp, just people prefer to do the most fast and efficient way possible, so if it isn't your way, DON'T DO IT, nobody says you have to do Abyssea.

[Koren]

I had written a post which would have bridged this rift between players, creating a new age of enlightenment and understanding wherein the gods of SE would come down weeping tears of joy as they embraced their playerbase and we all worked together to build a utopia in which the hardcores and casuals would join hands as brothers for a millennium. But the internet done et it, so back to our usual antics.

Go ahead and let players choose if they want all their jobs at 1 and no merits or 99 with full merits, uncapped at creation. It's reasonable. Some people just do not enjoy the leveling experience and we really should focus on enhancing a player's enjoyment. However, the players who choose to start at level 1 and no merits should have their moogle dispense all possible gear that is sold/dropped/quested/crafted for free. While some players do not like having to level to play in endgame, I do not enjoy grinding for gear to play in endgame. It's only fair. Why should my enjoyment be lessened doing something I do not find fun? Oh, I enjoy fighting things, I can even enjoy fighting things multiple times, but to keep plugging on with no guarantee the next one will reward me, or worse, it goes to someone else, isn't fun. So this should be a reasonable balance for all players. We can choose if we want to grind for gear or grind for experience.

[Camiie]

It's like I've said before. Neither SE nor the community is responsible for producing players who meet the standards of anyone else. If you want someone to meet a specific standard then that's on you to vet them or put forth some effort to help get them where you want them to be. If you end up partied with someone who's not up to snuff then kick them if you're a leader or leave the group if you're not. No changes are needed to Abyssea or any of our leveling systems.

[Avina]

However, the players who choose to start at level 1 and no merits should have their moogle dispense all possible gear that is sold/dropped/quested/crafted for free.

If you could get all possible gear pieces handed to you... what WOULD you play the game for?

[Koren]

If you could get all possible gear pieces handed to you... what WOULD you play the game for?

Killing things, quests and missions, storyline, leveling jobs, killing big things, achievements such as titles, challenges for events such as speed or solo kills, crafting, collecting things, exploration, spell hunting, social contact, did I mention I like killing things? More or less what I play for now. I'm fairly simple.

I, like many players now, have gotten older and no longer have as much time to devote to the game and so I try to pick what I would like to do with my limited time while playing. Most of it consists of doing things for friends to reach their goals, killing things in a variety of places by myself, and recently joining VW shouts regardless if the drops are particularly useful to me. Certainly if I get a rare drop so much the better, but I hardly go with the intention of getting anything but NPCables or the occasional item worth bazaaring. I don't get much of an adrenaline rush from gear dropping.

However, my previous post was more of a satire because I was getting tired of people complaining "I think leveling is boring so get rid of it" so I poked fun saying I would like to have a part of the game removed that I also did not enjoy. Certain circumstances have made me somewhat jaded at the gear acquisition process, so I play with the mindset of "I want to do this event" rather than "I want this item from the event."