Direction while crafting

[larrymc]

I always stand in a particular direction while crafting depending on the crystal. I can find no hard evidence that this helps significantly - but I figure that it cant hurt.

I find this statement about the new Geomancer job seems to favor the idea that SE could have put a directional component into the crafting system. At least the idea has been in their mindset.

Its under the section : New Job: Geomancer!

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/event/vanafest2012/


"Their job trait Polarity (temporary name) allows geomancers to receive different bonuses to their elemental magic spells depending on the direction they face when casting"

[Vold]

I always stand in a particular direction while crafting depending on the crystal. I can find no hard evidence that this helps significantly - but I figure that it cant hurt.

I find this statement about the new Geomancer job seems to favor the idea that SE could have put a directional component into the crafting system. At least the idea has been in their mindset.I think it's just a playful nod to the direction theory. We most certainly gave them the idea for it(although I don't put it past them for conceiving the idea of using direction for something due to the in game star chart, I think it is. But that could just be there for the sake of going with the elements and days. It could just be purely lore reasoning)

I'm relatively certain based on how SE folk have responded to questions about the theory that it's a bust theory. We basically got a lolareyouseriouslyaskingthat response. It seems good enough for me to say it's a bust theory but I don't know. I got tired of keeping up with it "just in case" and I can't really say anything has changed for me when crafting. Like I always say, if it's built into the system, it's barely barely BARELY worth the hassle. It's probably so little of a bonus/curse to your synth attempt that it's not even worth discussing.

[Raksha]

but I figure that it cant hurt.


I wonder why people think this.

How do you know you're not facing the wrong direction, and therefore are hurting your chances?

[Alistaire]

I wonder why people think this.

How do you know you're not facing the wrong direction, and therefore are hurting your chances?

Simple. Someone, years ago, figured out a theory of a pattern. So at that point either 1 of 2 things is right: 1. direction does affect crafting. or 2. it doesn't.

on #2 it definitely doesn't hurt.
on #1 it doesn't hurt unless they figured it out absolutely wrong. Considering the people who put the time into figuring out patterns do so with at least some sort of reasoning that's at least a little more likely to be right than wrong.

So without knowing for sure you'd have to say 50/50 on whether it helps or not, making it at least a bit more likely to not hurt since it's 50% + whatever # you'd put in for the quality of work of whoever figured out the pattern.

The only way to say it's more likely to hurt is if you're going to say the info was put out there wrong on purpose. There's certainly some history for JP doing that but not really a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

Edit: What would be great would be if someone from SE could comment on this. This is that other myth/theory that's pretty much right up there with treasure hunter as a mechanic the playerbase came up with ideas about but SE kept quiet about how it really worked. So, SE, does direction/moon phase/day of the vanadiel week affect crafting or not? And if so, did we figure it out right?

[Raksha]

on #1 it doesn't hurt unless they figured it out absolutely wrong. Considering the people who put the time into figuring out patterns do so with at least some sort of reasoning that's at least a little more likely to be right than wrong.



This is my point. If you believe that direction affects crafting you'd be much better off facing a different direction every time you synth. Let's say there are 8 different directions, and one of them will hurt you, choosing a different direction every synth gives you a 7/8 chance of not being negatively affected. The only way to know for sure if a particular direction affects crafting is to do controlled tests. And since no one has done any of those you have no way of knowing what affects what.

[Sotek]

People have tested crafting directions ad nauseum and never found a significant difference. The only basis I see for the theory in game would be the star charts, and iirc most of the common crafting directions are completely wrong when compared to that. SE has already answered the question of directional crafting though "Believe what you want to believe", thats either a resounding "No" or "We don't know", and given their history I'd assume the later. That said, people are welcome to believe what they want to believe, I imagine thats part of the fun of video games, but it wont change the fact that all the empirical evidence and a large amount of logic says the theory is bogus. I doubt they'd even leave such a thing as elemental directions up to crafting alone, if anyone believes in directional crafting they might as well believe in directional nuking.

Which brings me to the OP I guess, where did you get that quote about Polarity? It doesn't sound like what I took back from the VanaFest. They made it sound more like your position in relation to the monster gave different effects, rather than the direction you face. I'd back that up with the fact that they showed an image of a monster with the effects based around its position rather than a player character facing different directions, as well as the fact that Geomancer sounds to be based very strongly on your position for literally every other aspect of its play.

Unless I'm wrong on that, direction plays absolutely no part in this game what so ever and never will, position is the import factor. Sneak Attack is based on your position in relation to your target, as are Yonin and Innin, Polarity sounds exactly the same. I highly doubt there is anything in this game that tracks the direction you face.

[larrymc]

Which brings me to the OP I guess, where did you get that quote about Polarity?

I understand your doubt and disbelief - I shared the same until I read this directly from the FFXI web site - hence this post...

Its under the section : New Job: Geomancer!

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/event/vanafest2012/

[Raksha]

People have tested crafting directions ad nauseum and never found a significant difference.

Not that i'm surprised, but do you have any links to these tests? Would be nice to have bookmarked when people bring this up again.

[Sotek]

While that is an official channel, I'm always mindful of what they say simply because I know how terrible SE usually is when it comes to translation error. While the site may be official it has a pathetic amount of information compared to other community sites.

Literally everything about Polarity and the way they displayed it suggested it will work based on positioning, even then name though that can go both ways. The mechanics are already in the game for how I see it working, while directional bonuses would have to be entirely new. Conveniently they left the image I'm thinking of off that site, but here it is;
http://i.imgur.com/DJBjT.jpg
That really doesn't say "The direction you face will enhance your spells" at all, it says "If you're North of the mob... If you're South of the mob...", though maybe the fact that it isn't on the site means they decided to change the fundamental workings of the ability just days after announcing it, which I guess wouldn't be all that surprising.

Well, other than what I've already said I have nothing else to say, we can wait for Geomancer to be released to get a clear answer on how Polarity works to prove or disprove what I said, though everything about empirical evidence and logic still remains true for directional crafting. If I'm wrong and Polarity works based on the direction you face, they may just add directional crafting some day, if I'm right and it is based off your position, people can continue to argue about directional crafting till the servers shut down.


Not that i'm surprised, but do you have any links to these tests? Would be nice to have bookmarked when people bring this up again.

While I'd love nothing more than to go looking for old links, its been years since I've cared about the topic enough to, I'd imagine somewhere like BG has some though (and I imagine that instantly discredits my opinion on directional crafting for most). I really don't see much reason in arguing the point anymore though, people who want to believe will believe and I can't really blame them, it would be nice to have some sort of control over the results of synthesis.
The burden of proof really belongs to the individuals who believe in the theory though, until they test it for themselves they'll likely just discredit any data you present them or more likely not even know how to interpret it.
Ultimately directional crafting is just arguing for arguments sake, I don't care what direction people face when they're crafting because direction doesn't mean a thing. It would be nice for this argument to finally be put to rest, but I doubt even a direct "Directional crafting? What are you stupid?" from the death bed of Tanaka himself would resolve the issue.

[Theytak]

This is my point. If you believe that direction affects crafting you'd be much better off facing a different direction every time you synth. Let's say there are 8 different directions, and one of them will hurt you, choosing a different direction every synth gives you a 7/8 chance of not being negatively affected. The only way to know for sure if a particular direction affects crafting is to do controlled tests. And since no one has done any of those you have no way of knowing what affects what.

The basis of the theory was that the two directions that impact any given crystal both have a positive and a negative attribute; one direction increases the likelihood of failing, but also increases the chances of skilling up and/or HQing, while the other direction decreases the likelihood of failing, as well as decreasing the chance of HQing and/or skilling up; and/or's depend on which of the earlier theories you favor/follow. Either way, you're not really screwing yourself over by being cautious and playing the "it doesn't hurt" game. Besides, until SE flat out says "that's a load of nonsense" people will continue to believe it, and honestly, even if they do, people may continue just out of habit, or because they're superstitious.

[Godofgods]

Even if SE did come out and flat out say that the directional theory is false, ppl would still face the directions anyway. And I'm sure they get some amusement out of watching ppl argue over this still lol.

[Dragoy]

I often face the opposite direction of the suggested, just because!

Meaning I never believed in it, and I think I was pretty much convinced already before reading the comment from them saying something along the lines of “if people believe it helps, then it helps!”, but not saying yes or no to it really.

I'd vote for no.

[sc4500]

Direction to crafting does matter to a point. but it is a myth to the rest of the people.

I have have spent two solid years back when the game came out on ps2 ver, and spent most of my time crafting back then while waiting for a party. I read every theory and had almost 500 pages of data from websites and did alot of private tests. I will not tell you all my findings, because i would be stupid to since it would drop the prices on stuff and I would not make gill. Yet i feel I can give you a little information , if you find out what i know then it will be up to you if you really want to tell the world. I spend most my time cooking, but over the years i have teached some people my ways and they are still amazed I was able to figure it out.

First off i do not believe at the time square even knew it , it might have just been a bug or what not, but now days every conquest total they seem to change some the information it sometimes will take you 5 real days just to find it then they scramble it back up.

There are 7-9 other parts that you need to know before you will notice the directions part then it will make a difference. i call it the sweet spot with enough practice you can find it. Most of the time it is off the yams system they use. I found this part out from one there events they had years ago was my missing piece.

My best hq result was 42/44 on mithkabobs hqs. when my cooking was only 74. And there has been a few other times on items that i made stuff were I went 20/20 and 30/30. and there have been times were i help friends go 1 out of 2 on hq +1 armor and weapons and times they went 4/5.

The 3 hq tiers each are different direction , you can tell this by the items you lost if you broke. just like when you find the sweet spot for skilling up you will get skill ups on breaks and should run a streak of .1-.3 6 times in a row or more under 70 skill . I have help a few my close friends lv up there craft 35 lvs in 6 hours ish. once you get over 75 on a craft it will take longer.

Yes there has been a time were i had to talk to a GM for like 2 hrs or so and explain every thing I knew about crafting and he was like WOW. Even he didn't believe me and when I did teach him he like WOW.

I got lazy and drunk years ago and was making some food items for a few friends and was HQing massive amount near a jueno AH and some people called a GM on me people thought i was cheating. Plus people were sending me tells saying i was cheating also , to the point I just did shouts and at that time and with the information I knew and learned I had them HQing, but 99% them had know clue how I figured it out just research and practice. All I needed to know was a few things from the random people and was able to HQ the stuff for them with my information, they were on there characters and craft , I just told them the direction and few other things.

Now for the conclusion, square has change some the stuff over the years. Even back then there was only a few dozen or so people that found all this out and for those years we just would never post how we knew there was no cheat codes or nothing just practice and seeing the pattern and would go on tons of websites to debunk anything or anyone that got close to it , since took alot of us back in the day alot of research and work and WHY should anyone else get the rewards. There is now enough misinformation out there. That i feel I can post this.

Good luck and happy crafting, once you figure it out, It will be up to you, do you really want to give up the information so you can't make gil?

[Lemoncloak]

Someone asked years ago.

The reply was "Hahaha, face the direction your heart tells you to."

Crafting takes money and time. It's random. Stop trying to look for shortcuts and patterns.

[Raksha]

Direction to crafting does matter to a point. but it is a myth to the rest of the people.

I have have spent two solid years back when the game came out on ps2 ver, and spent most of my time crafting back then while waiting for a party. I read every theory and had almost 500 pages of data from websites and did alot of private tests. I will not tell you all my findings, because i would be stupid to since it would drop the prices on stuff and I would not make gill. Yet i feel I can give you a little information , if you find out what i know then it will be up to you if you really want to tell the world. I spend most my time cooking, but over the years i have teached some people my ways and they are still amazed I was able to figure it out.

First off i do not believe at the time square even knew it , it might have just been a bug or what not, but now days every conquest total they seem to change some the information it sometimes will take you 5 real days just to find it then they scramble it back up.

There are 7-9 other parts that you need to know before you will notice the directions part then it will make a difference. i call it the sweet spot with enough practice you can find it. Most of the time it is off the yams system they use. I found this part out from one there events they had years ago was my missing piece.

My best hq result was 42/44 on mithkabobs hqs. when my cooking was only 74. And there has been a few other times on items that i made stuff were I went 20/20 and 30/30. and there have been times were i help friends go 1 out of 2 on hq +1 armor and weapons and times they went 4/5.

The 3 hq tiers each are different direction , you can tell this by the items you lost if you broke. just like when you find the sweet spot for skilling up you will get skill ups on breaks and should run a streak of .1-.3 6 times in a row or more under 70 skill . I have help a few my close friends lv up there craft 35 lvs in 6 hours ish. once you get over 75 on a craft it will take longer.

Yes there has been a time were i had to talk to a GM for like 2 hrs or so and explain every thing I knew about crafting and he was like WOW. Even he didn't believe me and when I did teach him he like WOW.

I got lazy and drunk years ago and was making some food items for a few friends and was HQing massive amount near a jueno AH and some people called a GM on me people thought i was cheating. Plus people were sending me tells saying i was cheating also , to the point I just did shouts and at that time and with the information I knew and learned I had them HQing, but 99% them had know clue how I figured it out just research and practice. All I needed to know was a few things from the random people and was able to HQ the stuff for them with my information, they were on there characters and craft , I just told them the direction and few other things.

Now for the conclusion, square has change some the stuff over the years. Even back then there was only a few dozen or so people that found all this out and for those years we just would never post how we knew there was no cheat codes or nothing just practice and seeing the pattern and would go on tons of websites to debunk anything or anyone that got close to it , since took alot of us back in the day alot of research and work and WHY should anyone else get the rewards. There is now enough misinformation out there. That i feel I can post this.

Good luck and happy crafting, once you figure it out, It will be up to you, do you really want to give up the information so you can't make gil?

TL;DR: Trust me gaiz.

[geekgirl101]

If facing a certain direction doesn't affect crafting chances, then what is the elemental wheel for?

[Arcon]

If facing a certain direction doesn't affect crafting chances, then what is the elemental wheel for?

What "elemental wheel"?

[RAIST]

If facing a certain direction doesn't affect crafting chances, then what is the elemental wheel for?

That's for stacking magic to avoid resists and what not... look at the descriptions of elemental NIN spells or BRD songs, it lays out the wheel for you. Think you're confusing the wheel with the compass that pops up on all the sites telling you which direction is best---that's all part of the theory/myth behind it all, and based on the star chart.

[Raksha]

The "Elemental wheel" does affect crafting.

If you are using a wind crystal you will have better HQ rates under certain conditions during Iceday and Darksday, and worse HQ rates during Earthsday and Lightsday.

And unlike the "direction matters" people I have data to back up that claim:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=24&mid=1093897190388898652&h=50

In order to go from "elemental wheel matters" to "Direction matters" you have to show evidence that a link exists.

[sc4500]

One helpful hint , just look on your floor of the mog house and look at the hidden wheel. Then start asking your self why? and why would they have level ones characters lv through the roof? Last each day of the week the direction will change, and now days sensitive spot and it moves with the time. The rest you can just research. Also all three hq are in a different spot from the skill ups ones.

I got the data but will never show it, it all in my memory nowdays I burn all paperwork on a drunken bonefire party 4 yrs ago. , but all the info is out there just need find out what is wrong and what is right. It would be up to someone to stupid to give it all out to the masses , and also square will just change it like they do all the time.

I will tell you that on lightning day at certain moon phase under 50% but over 50% not the 90% over or the !0% under ones , bug broths back in the day, if went SE with 2 items, you would hq 90% the time at only 12 lvs above then once you got 51 above it was hq 3. It no longer works so moot point.

[Arcon]

One helpful hint , just look on your floor of the mog house and look at the hidden wheel. Then start asking your self why? and why would they have level ones characters lv through the roof? Last each day of the week the direction will change, and now days sensitive spot and it moves with the time. The rest you can just research. Also all three hq are in a different spot from the skill ups ones.

I got the data but will never show it, it all in my memory nowdays I burn all paperwork on a drunken bonefire party 4 yrs ago. , but all the info is out there just need find out what is wrong and what is right. It would be up to someone to stupid to give it all out to the masses , and also square will just change it like they do all the time.

I will tell you that on lightning day at certain moon phase under 50% but over 50% not the 90% over or the !0% under ones , bug broths back in the day, if went SE with 2 items, you would hq 90% the time at only 12 lvs above then once you got 51 above it was hq 3. It no longer works so moot point.

I don't know what hurts more, reading the bullshit you post or your broken and mutilated language.

[Dragoy]

I don't know what hurts more, reading the bullshit you post or your broken and mutilated language.

I like to imagine it's all true, and that this is how mankind evolves and is able to progress (that is, hiding information and never sharing it with other than death)...

Hmmm, perhaps that's what happened to the Abyssea people!

[Raksha]

One helpful hint , just look on your floor of the mog house and look at the hidden wheel. Then start asking your self why? and why would they have level ones characters lv through the roof? Last each day of the week the direction will change, and now days sensitive spot and it moves with the time. The rest you can just research. Also all three hq are in a different spot from the skill ups ones.

I got the data but will never show it, it all in my memory nowdays I burn all paperwork on a drunken bonefire party 4 yrs ago. , but all the info is out there just need find out what is wrong and what is right. It would be up to someone to stupid to give it all out to the masses , and also square will just change it like they do all the time.

I will tell you that on lightning day at certain moon phase under 50% but over 50% not the 90% over or the !0% under ones , bug broths back in the day, if went SE with 2 items, you would hq 90% the time at only 12 lvs above then once you got 51 above it was hq 3. It no longer works so moot point.

Obvoius troll is obvious.

[Frost]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

I love this shit.... Hear it all the time:

"I always craft on/facing X day/direction and I get X results."
If you always do it... Then how do you know if it works when you don't?

"I got X HQ in a row on a <element> synth and it's <unfavorable day/direction to craft>! must be a freak accident. That's funny cause I didn't HQ even once on <assumed favorable crystal day>."

Or the inverse:

"That's wierd I just critical broke/nq'd a <element> synth X times in a row, and it's <favorable element day/direction>, must be a fluke."
Yeah, that must be it...

People see what they want to see.
Does it hurt to do it? Naw. Preaching it as fact when it's been proven in the more negative light as "bullshit" and the more positive light as "Not significant enough to produce results", is dumb.

[Kristal]

Does it hurt to do it? Naw.

Actually, it can. If your understanding of directional crafting is wrong, then it could be having exactly the opposite effect.
Only when you know that it has NO effect, can you say that it doesn't hurt to do so.

[Continuity]

Meh. I've looked into all of it years ago, followed it for a while, but I never really felt like it helped much.

Now here's the thing... I don't think it matters whether it's real or not. If direction had an impact on synth results, it would most likely be a small impact, for a couple of reasons... game balance for one, and also because if it were actually a big factor, it would NOT be a secret with how big the player base was. I don't believe much of what sc4500 wrote either...

So really, who cares. Either it exists and it barely helps, or it doesn't exist. I think I'll just face what ever way I happen to be facing. :P

[Godofgods]

Or the inverse:

"That's wierd I just critical broke/nq'd a <element> synth X times in a row, and it's <favorable element day/direction>, must be a fluke."
Yeah, that must be it...

Nothing is quite as annoying in game as when that happens. One time when i was at 100ww i was doing a lvl 60 synth for GP. Limited mets, and i fail three times in a row!

[Kristal]

Nothing is quite as annoying in game as when that happens. One time when i was at 100ww i was doing a lvl 60 synth for GP. Limited mets, and i fail three times in a row!

Try crit failing 3 of 4 arrowwood lumber synths at WW 100... I'm more inclined to believe that the RNG favors similar results within a short timeframe (due to a bad seed routine) then direction. Sometimes it's good, sometimes bad.. (usually the bad for me, and the good for the guy next to me, but that's Life in Vana'diel for you...)