RIP RDM

[Lilia]

:(
before the event i was rly hopeful, but now..... T.T

So much good ideas and become rdm only one? no alltime other (new) jobs.
RLY SE for what you want rdm?

Geo and RFN is the last coffinnail for the rdm

[cidbahamut]

I didn't understand a word of that, but I assume you're complaining about Geomancer and Rune Fencer totally infringing on our turf and making RDM even more obsolete than it already was, in which case I agree wholeheartedly.

[lllen]

RIP Rdm, I spent a lot of hours when I started this game years ago getting my Rdm to be all that it could be, now it hasn't been out of the MH since Abyssea started except to level up to 99. I don't understand why they have done this to us. I wish they would just tell us why. I see new people who have just started the game talking about how much they love Rdm and not realizing that once you get to end game you are not wanted, except when you are with friends, its not fair to them. All that time spend leveling a first job.../cry.

[Quetzacoatl]

Sadly I have barely touched RDM, and soon I'll have an even better reason not to with GEO and RFN around.

RIP RDM. You were my pride and joy for a good while, but now I've moved on to DRK, and soon GEO. Maybe RFN too if things look right for me.

[Crimson_Slasher]

According to live feed speculations, Rune Fencer (more likely rune knight) Will not be as much a melee-mage as much as a magic tank, and its "En-Effects" could be misinterperited. Way it seems Geo is BLM+BRD sorta, a debuffer and nuker (on tier with us for nukes, sporting T4 nukes) and Rune Fencer seems to be more a JA popper (via strategem like charges as far as i gather) rather than a spell caster, but i could be wrong. In either even neither have native healing spells. While it is disheartening, im not too worried.

Oh no, someone can enfeeb like us, not like WHM/BRD/BLM/SCH/BLU/COR/NIN could do that.
Oh no, someone can nuke like us, not like theres jobs that do that.
Oh look, drk and pld have enspells, it is the end of days!
Oh dear, Runefencer is around (which name makes it seem dangerous to us BUT) Im sure they will be the death of us.

Sub rdm gave convert, refresh, fastcast, cure IV, stoneskin, phalanx, aquaveil, blink, yet theres still rdms around. Not to mention, whos gonna take a hybrid buffer GEO over a COR and BLM? Well we cant say they wont be used but leaked info doesnt say look well. And unless RuneFencer absorbs magic damage taken to heal, i doubt it will replace pld as a tank. So like i said, im not worried.

[Zerich]

It's been dead for a <<Long time>>

[Ophannus]

GEO is getting Elemental Magic up to Tier 4 and they have higher skill than us (B-). Additionally they get AoE sphere aura buffs and debuffs, something the developers told RDM a few months ago that platers would never get because sphere effects would be too strong.

[Llana_Virren]

It's been dead for a <<Long time>>

RDM was like a vampire. Sure, it was dead. It was undead. And people were still in fear when they saw one. (Normally, the fear was something like "omg, that guy still thinks RDM is relevant! Run away!"

This expansion just serves as the proverbial wooden stake.

[Elgorian]

whos gonna take a hybrid buffer GEO over a COR and BLM?

Well, if stuff continues to be the ZergFest that it is, GEO will easily replace BLM if the buffs will stack with COR and BRD. Outside of VW for procs, how often do you actually use BLM anyway?

[Crimson_Slasher]

My point is more that a cor is already a hybrid buffer that can inflict magic damage. And i actually use BLM quite a bit in various events, though i wont bother listing them because then the argument of "thats old content and doesnt count" comes up. The problem though is why take a geomancer for anything more than its buffs? And you have to hope its buffs are worth using. As for the skill rating, B- vs what? C+? Its not a huge gap and lacks native fastcast. So rdm will still be as good if not better as a nuker. Or are all the dnc just not as good as thf with them because their skill is one rank down? Lets face it, while these jobs will take some of the things people make rdm do, they arent taking everything, and even the things they do take, theres no evidence they will do it all better anyway. And they still lack heals in either event (atleast as been stated so far.)

But im sure we can assume the magic tank class, and the nuking buffer are out to hurt rdm most, not like there will be competition between GEO/SMN/BRD/COR or Between PLD/RNF right? Look deeper than the surface people. Even if rdm isnt relevent in content it doesnt mean it has been replaced. We just havent had events that cater to our abilities anymore. Id like more for rdm, but you guys are assuming it wont just be LOLGEO and LOLRNF upon launch.

So fret, panic, and throw tantrums if you like but im not worried about the skill difference, or the fact another job gets enspells.

[Demon6324236]

But im sure we can assume the magic tank class, and the nuking buffer are out to hurt rdm most, not like there will be competition between GEO/SMN/BRD/COR or Between PLD/RNF right? Look deeper than the surface people.

PLD vs RNF will never happen, reflect or magic absorption is required to make any job as good of a magic tank as PLD is due to Aegis. GEO is another buffer to the spot is the point, and also enfeebling, hurting RDM's need to even exist as that is actually all people use RDM to do anymore. Will it hurt other jobs? Yes, it will, but it will hurt RDM much worse seeing as while other jobs have been getting updates and events they can use, RDM has been left for dead. Case in point, thread a while back asked about our merits changing because other jobs were, we got told the enfeebling update would help us out. Enfeebling update effects enfeebling jobs, not just RDM, unless skill was made to have a major impact on these spells it will mean nothing, and rather than that being the case they are talking about enfeebling being unable to even be resisted at all? People are talking about RDM being dead for a good reason, this shows more than ever that RDM still has no hope because SE has turned their backs on us.

[Zerich]

RDM was like a vampire. Sure, it was dead. It was undead. And people were still in fear when they saw one. (Normally, the fear was something like "omg, that guy still thinks RDM is relevant! Run away!"

This expansion just serves as the proverbial wooden stake.

Affliatus Solace, Minikin Monstrosity, Convert for everyone, Refresh for everyone, temp items, and the irrelevance of enfeebles weren't final enough?

[Crimson_Slasher]

With the expansion easily 6-7 months away, im not worried period. Never know what will/wont be dont to enfeebles between now and then. My only worry is that their enfeebles lists as "Unresistible" but if you are only taking a rdm for enfeebling, its a lazy rdm. Geo still at best will enfeeble as good as rdm, argueably better, possibly worse. Will heal worse, nuke about as well (I doubt 10 skill will make or break the nuking argument and if it does, their polarity+/rdm+gear+traits better match a rdm's fast cast values to compete...) and they lack the, admittedly neiche but existant melee ability rdm has. Also no telling if their buffs will have special effect types (Nature's Embrace for regen? North Wind for haste?) making them mesh. Lets not forget option of using either as subjob. As for events, Theres plenty jobs that are neglected or at best fringe for events. Not to mention, like i said, these could end up being "Loljobs".

If rdm is already dead as a doornail, then why fret about a new job to replace it? Especially if replacing the buffer role that many of us didnt want. Nin didnt rep us as enfeeblers, and neither have any of the others, the issue is more enfeebling isnt needed. So as far as im concerned, rdm is in no more danger from GEO than it is from DRG or MNK. And even as an enfeebler it seems like Geo's ability will be of select use as it seems their effects being aura based around either themselves, or a location planted on the field, any mob moving about on a rampage will be randomly enfeebled then freed then enfeebled again where as a rdm may be more suited to enfeebling a target like that (like ones with hate resets, which is like...everything now?) So at best i can see a rdm being a boss debuffer, and geo a fodder hoard debuffer.

Granted the jobs arent out, and they very will could dismantle whats left of rdm, but with atleast half a year to go, and lots of possible updates along the way, i think its pretty damn early for people to go be so "Doom-And-Gloom" already. Not to mention those fun tags they love to sling saying "Finished product may differ from depiction" or something to that effect.

Ill say it every time, Im not worried.

Edit: Besides, i dont know why you are all worried, the world is supposed to end at the end of the year anyway. I guess if people can believe that, i suppose i can see why you're all scared!

[Llana_Virren]

Affliatus Solace, Minikin Monstrosity, Convert for everyone, Refresh for everyone, temp items, and the irrelevance of enfeebles weren't final enough?

Well, there was always hope. That's what this expansion kills. :)

[Jeubond]

I really don't understand all the negativity shown towards Rdm both in & out of Abyssea, I don't care about the new jobs due in 2013, when they arrive & have been tried & tested in battle we'll see exactly what they are made of !
Until then if I'm running a party wherever it may be you better believe I want a Rdm in my line-up.
Front-line or back their versatility is so useful I just cannot forsee when they would not be useful, the tide of battle can chop & change as we all know, Blm, Whm, Dd, Tank, Rdm can step in to all of these shoes & ok whilst not 100% up to the specialists they don't half do a very good imitation !
So . . . don't despair all you Rdm's out there, there's a full-time Bst here who really does appreciate what you can do & who has cause to thank you !
Up your various pipes !
Jon :)

[Crimsonwizard]

Jeubond wrote:

So . . . don't despair all you Rdm's out there, there's a full-time Bst here who really does appreciate what you can do & who has cause to thank you !

After the weekend i've just had, finding no PT on my lower jobs, and no invites on my mains, and how the new jobs seem to be taking everything suggested in these forums in the last two years for RDM but Amnesia spell, but to hear someone actually wanting RDM made my day.

Thank you very much Jeubond, may Altana bless you with a winning ticket in Goldie Gobbie.

[hideka]

RIP Rdm, I spent a lot of hours when I started this game years ago getting my Rdm to be all that it could be, now it hasn't been out of the MH since Abyssea started except to level up to 99. I don't understand why they have done this to us. I wish they would just tell us why. I see new people who have just started the game talking about how much they love Rdm and not realizing that once you get to end game you are not wanted, except when you are with friends, its not fair to them. All that time spend leveling a first job.../cry.

have you ever played a FF11 where RDM was any thing better than a support job by the time of end game?

[Llana_Virren]

have you ever played a FF11 where RDM was any thing better than a support job by the time of end game?

I remember a time when drk was only viable as a sj for RDM....

[Eric]

I don't usually pay too much attention to RDM, but I happened to come across this the other day, and I think it's extremely relevant to the subject at hand.

Click here for source: (http://bioandrunaway.tumblr.com/post/25824467342/boo-hoo-hoo-rdm-has-definitely-been-killed-by-the-two):

-Square specifically mentioned that GEO’s enfeebling gyve/fetter/whatever the fuck aura things DO NOT take up the same “slot” as a directly-casted enfeeble, meaning you can essentially have TWO OF THE SAME ENFEEBLES ON THE MOB AT THE SAME TIME.

If you are a red mage who wouldn’t give their left arm to have slow/para/whatever I and II stack, then I don’t even know where to begin.

-Unless your name is Rainemard or Kam’lanaut, your en-spells suck dick. If you think they’re a defining trait of red mage gameplay you’re wrong, and if you think they should be, then you need to turn in your RDM badge.

Yes we need fixing. No, GEO and RFR or RNF or whatever isn’t killing our job. They’re not even out yet. Stop being stupid.

[Llana_Virren]

I don't usually pay too much attention to RDM, but I happened to come across this the other day, and I think it's extremely relevant to the subject at hand.

Click here for source: (http://bioandrunaway.tumblr.com/post/25824467342/boo-hoo-hoo-rdm-has-definitely-been-killed-by-the-two):

Sadly it's not really relevant to the concern amongst RDMs (and former-RDMs):

--The comment was that the sphere/aura enfeebles would take their own "spot" was to answer the question of "what if it's a Paralyze proc and there's a paralyze aura in effect." As of right now, enfeebles are only relevant for procs, and WHM and BLM can both land them for proc, a RDM is not needed. RDM gains nothing from this statement.

--Slow I and II, Paralyze I and II and so forth do not stalk, so this comment is fluff at best. (As an aside, I frequently asked WARs to tomahawk or DRGs to Angon when I used Dia II/III because they did stack. But that's neither here nor there).

--The issue is that enspells were unique to RDM, not that they were game-breaking. The fact that only RDM had access to them made them a defining trait of RDM. You might want to figure out what "defining" means.

--Increasing the level cap took the uniqueness of Refresh and Convert away from RDM. SCH took away the usefulness of RDM capped Enhancing. while also blocking Refresh and Haste from working with Accession. Despite all of these, players continued to hope that with upcoming enhancements to the Merit Categories and spell effects that RDM might get a saving grace. Instead, the recommendations for enhancements to RDM were included in the development of two additional jobs.

Good or bad, effective or useless, prior to the level-cap increase, RDM was viable for, amongst other things, Enfeebliing (Dia III, Dispel), Enhancing (Refresh, anyone?) and Endurance (Refresh+Convert). This somewhat gave RDM relevance despite not having the higher tier magic spells of either White or Black schools of Magic.

--The melee aspect of RDM was already hindered due to the undeserved fear that everyone would become Avesta, and has been untouched since the dawn of time.

--The level cap, and subsequent enhancements made for WHM and BLM increased the gap between the "pure mages" and hybrid class, and by making Convert and Refresh sub-able reduced RDM to a "I wear it for looks" Chapeau class.

When a team of developers think think that creating two new jobs from "scratch" (read as: copy from existing jobs with some tweaks) is more important than fixing an irrelevent job, you will understand the genuine disappointment/sense of betrayal being echoed by the forsaken RDM masses.

[Demon6324236]

Well Ill reply as if that post were here to show where its right or wrong in my opinion.

Enfeebling from 2 jobs stacking does not effect the fact that enfeebling in itself is not being fixed for RDM, its being fixed for all jobs, everything will land enfeebling, so RDM will still have little advantage.

I would love 2 RDM enfeebles to stack, you see, that would make RDM special, because then we could stack 2 enfeebles not 1, but instead there will still only be 1 from RDM, and 1 from GEO, so RDM para will be just slightly better than WHM para and people still wont care.

Enspells are not godly, they are a unique form of damage, I can hit flans, slimes, TEs in Dyna, and more with both melee & magic attacks, so if the enemy resists my melee, my magic damage picks up the slack a little. They are not good nor great, however they were ours, now they are being given a way to a job more likely to do more damage, this does hurt RDM as it takes away a feature of the job.

Yes, we do need fixing, no, the other jobs arnt here yet, but they represent something. RDM has been ditched, but we could always look to the future for hope because we had no idea what was on the way. Now we do, 2 new jobs, getting things we have, enfeebling updates that could very well ruin certain spells like the enfeebling resist spells, and help every mage with an enfeebling magic skill land spells all the same, not only us or mainly us. The jobs themselves do not ruin us, and the fact they are not here yet does not effect us, it is what they seem to mean, that SE has chosen to give them things we have asked for, and use the few spots we could still fill.

[Crimson_Slasher]

These jobs grasp at straws for some utilities we have, but neither is a huge threat. And if their future existence means our death, then im sure that spells doom for many other jobs, including bard for example (when was the last time they got a heavy adjustment? Dontcha think they mighta wanted some things geo may offer?)

Lots of jobs have gotten petty or few updates recently, our woes may be many but quite honestly i still use most my jobs a lot, if anything my RNG is my least used job at this point. With months before release, countless updates, and still many things we have over those jobs, yes, theres little threat from them. Also the fact that there are new jobs doesnt mean anything. Had the new jobs been say... "Berserker" and "Sniper" im sure the RNG and DRK and possibly sam/war forums would have been in an uproar! But instead, these are more flavors of non DD professions.

Lets look at the major facts so far, in response to geomancer, we still likely will have mp longevity, actual cure power to some degree, fastcast, effective defensive buffs, great damage mitigation tools and gear, as well as matching their nuke power, and having likely still more potent enfeebles. To get any/all of those they will require subbing us just as sch does, but sch hasnt totally replaced us either. Its just the fearful masses jumping to conclusions that because they are doing one thing, they cant possibly have any thoughts about working on something else ever.

This COULD be the death of rdm, maybe. But as we are still more flexible, even if rdm isnt wanted in EVERY DAMN EVENT like it was at 75, well, tough, not every job was wanted in every event then, ill take being accepted as a space filler or used for select events. Its been said, who doesnt have atleast 2 99 jobs these days?

Main problem here is people blowing things way the hell out of proportion! "Abyssea is over!" "Voidwatch is over!" "Dynamis is dead!" Well hate to break it to you all, but just because its not the new hot button making everyone wet their pants doesnt mean people arent still flocking to these and older events! Sorry if i dont shead a tear and feel left out of legion as rdm, but really if GEO or RNF are any more popular for these older, still vastly popular events, then i suppose we have a problem, but they already said they are designed to not be involved with them so i dont see a problem.

So SE, go ahead and make an event that Caters to GEO and RNF, because we can tell now, unless these jobs are truely, truely, truely broken, there is little chance it will put us out of a job. Dnc didnt, blu didnt, sch didnt. Hell whm only just recently took their job back.

There is a gigantic difference between "reading between the lines" and "Jumping the gun" or "Flying off the handle" or just plain over-reacting to this. Maybe the japanese players have capped all jobs to 99 and are demanding something else to level for all we know.

I am not worried, threatened, or upset at this news and look forward to the new jobs, zones, and possibility of these being useful for rdm/rng or rdm/geo play.

[Demon6324236]

These jobs grasp at straws for some utilities we have, but neither is a huge threat. And if their future existence means our death, then im sure that spells doom for many other jobs, including bard for example (when was the last time they got a heavy adjustment? Dontcha think they mighta wanted some things geo may offer?)

BRD is useful in current events and invited as such, RDM is at best a filler, and SCH normally takes its place instead because it is a better mage.


Lots of jobs have gotten petty or few updates recently, our woes may be many but quite honestly i still use most my jobs a lot, if anything my RNG is my least used job at this point. With months before release, countless updates, and still many things we have over those jobs, yes, theres little threat from them. Also the fact that there are new jobs doesnt mean anything. Had the new jobs been say... "Berserker" and "Sniper" im sure the RNG and DRK and possibly sam/war forums would have been in an uproar! But instead, these are more flavors of non DD professions.

Outside of procs I don't see people all to picky about DDs, normally it seems to come down to what your better as and what you have geared best, Berserker wouldn't really take DRK, SAM, or WAR down much unless everyone had it geared better and knew how to play the job well enough for it to be more effective. Mages are not the same, we all have many advantages and fields we are better in, except RDM, we get enhancing that WHM does, enfeebling that BLM & WHM or a SCH/RDM can do, we get worse healing than SCH, worse nukes than SCH or BLM, no native divine, and a single set of tiered dark spells.


Lets look at the major facts so far, in response to geomancer, we still likely will have mp longevity, actual cure power to some degree, fastcast, effective defensive buffs, great damage mitigation tools and gear, as well as matching their nuke power, and having likely still more potent enfeebles. To get any/all of those they will require subbing us just as sch does, but sch hasnt totally replaced us either. Its just the fearful masses jumping to conclusions that because they are doing one thing, they cant possibly have any thoughts about working on something else ever.

MP longevity hasn't been needed for some time, unless it comes back, this matters nothing.
Cures, the WHMs do cures, when was the last time RDM was an excepted healer? You take SCH before RDM in that case.
Fast Cast is cool, except SCH has little reason to not /RDM, and both WHM & BLM have either merits for -cast time of their respective types of spells, or gear for the same thing while RDM's main -cast time gear is~ enfeebling magic, which takes half a second to cast anyways!
Damage should not be taken if your a mage, if you are taking damage, its probably a NM, NMs, do enough Phalanx matters very, very, little, and thats our real protection you speak of I take it in defense, gear wise, many jobs can easily stack PDT gear.
Subbing RDM is required for as long as we don't see its gear, if it has AF sets that everything else does (which is how they made it sound) it will likely have -cast time gear built into its EmpAF set to cater with mage tradition in this case.
SCH has actually killed RDM mage wise. MP longevity=Sublimation, Magic acc gear+Strat=Enfeebling magic skill being high, higher black magic tiers, strats to boost effects of spells by 1.5 times or more. they even get heightened skill levels when in the correct arts so that gimps can use it as well/almost as well as people who actually skilled them up. I don't feel the need to go on, SCH/RDM, does beat RDM in basically every way when it comes to pure maging.
It has nothing to do with me being part of the "fearful masses" I look at the past, I look at the future, and I look at what SE is telling me, and when I add this all together it translates into "We looked at many suggestions on how to fix or help some jobs, however, rather than fixing or assisting these jobs, we thought it would be best to make 2 new jobs with these ideas, helping reason to buy our new expansion, return to the game, or forgive us for our past mistakes."


This COULD be the death of rdm, maybe. But as we are still more flexible, even if rdm isnt wanted in EVERY DAMN EVENT like it was at 75, well, tough, not every job was wanted in every event then, ill take being accepted as a space filler or used for select events. Its been said, who doesnt have atleast 2 99 jobs these days?

When you cant go into an event and know what your actually going to be doing in it, RDM's flexibility will matter, when you need a healer, you will bring a healer, when you need a nuker, you will bring a nuker, there is almost never a reason to bring someone who can do both but worse, especially RDM over SCH when SCH does both better anyways.
I don't mind not being wanted in EVERY event, I don't like being wanted in NO event as more than anything but a filler! Having more than a single job at 99 matters nothing, having more than a single job geared to the teeth, means nothing, no job should be left behind without a reason as RDM has.


Main problem here is people blowing things way the hell out of proportion! "Abyssea is over!" "Voidwatch is over!" "Dynamis is dead!" Well hate to break it to you all, but just because its not the new hot button making everyone wet their pants doesnt mean people arent still flocking to these and older events! Sorry if i dont shead a tear and feel left out of legion as rdm, but really if GEO or RNF are any more popular for these older, still vastly popular events, then i suppose we have a problem, but they already said they are designed to not be involved with them so i dont see a problem.

Again, if I was useful in these events I would be happy, lets look at them vs other jobs.
Abyssea:This world is ruled by procs, RDM has few blue procs, few red procs (dagger being the only ones I think) and only 2 of any magic proc at most unless you count a subjob. WAR has most red procs, NIN can cover whatever WAR cant, and NIN/WAR can even cover the same amount as a WAR can. MNK has 14/15 blue procs for a certain time frame, the person healing him probably has the last 1 of those 15 as well. WHM, BLM/BRD, BLU, THF/NIN, this covers all magic procs in a seal party, and treasure hunter. RDM is shown to be in none of these setups for procs, and has minimal support for any of these.
Voidwatch:RDM again, has few procs, enfeebling procs unique to the job have just been removed. Has minimal DD capabilities, has minimal need in general. BRD COR DDs BLMx2~3 BLUx1~2 NIN WHMx2, this is the gist of a VW party setup, RDM gets to be a filler for the BLM who just doesn't want to come, thats where it falls into this lineup most the time at best.
Dynamis:RDM has no Treasure Hunter and has lower damage output than other jobs, the end. THF can solo Dyna, BST can dominate Dyna, PUP can do Dyna WS mobs with their puppet procing for them, DNC can do Dyna with a locked subjob, RDM can... do subpar? Are you talking about other than farming? Ok, SMN, BRD, DDs, this is ADL setup, and thats about all there is to Dyna people do, so yeah, no use here either.


So SE, go ahead and make an event that Caters to GEO and RNF, because we can tell now, unless these jobs are truely, truely, truely broken, there is little chance it will put us out of a job. Dnc didnt, blu didnt, sch didnt. Hell whm only just recently took their job back.

DNC put in a new soloer, not nearly as effective as RDM however, so no, it didn't. BLU, does more damage with swords, does more damage with magic that casts as fast as we cast Dia, and has healing spells on par with our healing spells, they fall short in MP longevity, this job only losses in a single place, MP! SCH, I explained above, not saying it again...


There is a gigantic difference between "reading between the lines" and "Jumping the gun" or "Flying off the handle" or just plain over-reacting to this. Maybe the japanese players have capped all jobs to 99 and are demanding something else to level for all we know.

Yes there are differences, and funny enough, I know this, and do none of these except perhaps jump the gun. I sat down, calm minded, went over the info I was given, and got angry because after adding the facts together I was given, I saw that this was bad for my job. If Japanese players leveled all jobs to 99, that just means, they did what alot of people already have on this game. I wouldn't mind having new jobs, I just wish they would fix the problems they have with the current ones 1st, and namely not take away ideas that could help to fix these problems.


I am not worried, threatened, or upset at this news and look forward to the new jobs, zones, and possibility of these being useful for rdm/rng or rdm/geo play.

I am worried, new jobs are nice, but where do they fall? I see 2 more jobs to add to the other 19 that I am currently up against when an event comes out and it is chosen who is worth having, RDM is currently not very worth having, having a 1/22 chance makes me feel worse than my current 1/20 chance.

I like the idea of going to these new zones but I am faced with many problems, I'm RDM, group based things don't work for me well right now, unless this changes I will be alone out there. These new items to remove things in the way, build outposts and whatnot, will this only happen once? If so, partys will make this boring to me, because I will never really experience this. If it has to be done again, will it take up inventory space? My RDM already has alot of gear, I will be unable to really hold much of anything outside of my gear and a few items for this content if I'm alone.

I'm not upset about the news, I'm happy about it because it means this game will not die soon, most people don't make expansions to kill off a game shortly after, not to mention new interface and whatnot for the PC. And I'm excited to try new combos with the new jobs as subjobs, it will bring something interesting. But as much as I like this all, I still see problems with it as well. RDM dying or not is a past matter, the job is currently in a very poor state, this simply shows they have been putting alot of time into these new jobs, and ideas that were given for RDM even, it is driving people to lose hope RDM might change.



I'm sorry for such a long post, I'm done speaking my opinion.

[SpankWustler]

I've finally thought of the right disturbing metaphor for this situation!

Let's say a couple starts with one child. They neither love nor hate this child, they mostly ignore him and leave him to starve in a large cardboard box which slowly fills with his own filth.

Later, the couple has another child. Just a baby, right now. Another boy. Right now, they're feeding that child and showing it love. They must have loved the first child once.

Stuff happens and the first child dies of dehydration.

The second child has nothing to do with the first child's death. The first child's neglect is not a result of the second child's care. However, seeing that tiny thing all wrapped up and happy definitely hurts the first child on an emotional level. As the first child collapses into a cold and watery puddle of his own feces, I wouldn't be surprised if he gurgles, "I hope I get to haunt that little monster."

On a purely logical level, I think a lot of people know that all three jobs could live happily together like three hermaphroditic polygamists in kinda-gross union if all three jobs end up actually filling needed roles and being fun to play and not sucking horribly and stuff.

On a more emotional level, that might not matter. Stuff sucks for Red Mage right now and both new jobs seem vaguely similar to Red Mage on paper. That makes the suck, well, feel suckier. Basic suckology!

[hiko]

Sadly it's not really relevant to the concern amongst RDMs (and former-RDMs):

--The comment was that the sphere/aura enfeebles would take their own "spot" was to answer the question of "what if it's a Paralyze proc and there's a paralyze aura in effect." As of right now, enfeebles are only relevant for procs, and WHM and BLM can both land them for proc, a RDM is not needed. RDM gains nothing from this statement.

--Slow I and II, Paralyze I and II and so forth do not stalk, so this comment is fluff at best. (As an aside, I frequently asked WARs to tomahawk or DRGs to Angon when I used Dia II/III because they did stack. But that's neither here nor there).
-if enfeebling monster is useless geo doesn't take anything from RDM (you dont need rdm either geo exist or not)
-slow I & II doesnt stack with each other but thet stack with elegy, RDM debuff will stack with geo debuff (SE said they don't take same slot)
-we don't know how many aura a geo can put. RDM can stick all their debuff (minus element overwrite)



--The issue is that enspells were unique to RDM, not that they were game-breaking. The fact that only RDM had access to them made them a defining trait of RDM. You might want to figure out what "defining" means.

enspells have never been unique to RDM
-http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Rolling_Thunder (not worth using but it exist)
-sch/rdm can aoe enspells



--Increasing the level cap took the uniqueness of Refresh and Convert away from RDM. SCH took away the usefulness of RDM capped Enhancing. while also blocking Refresh and Haste from working with Accession. Despite all of these, players continued to hope that with upcoming enhancements to the Merit Categories and spell effects that RDM might get a saving grace. /cut/.

Good or bad, effective or useless, prior to the level-cap increase, RDM was viable for, amongst other things, Enfeebliing (Dia III, Dispel), Enhancing (Refresh, anyone?) and Endurance (Refresh+Convert). This somewhat gave RDM relevance despite not having the higher tier magic spells of either White or Black schools of Magic.

--The melee aspect of RDM was already hindered due to the undeserved fear that everyone would become Avesta, and has been untouched since the dawn of time.

--The level cap, and subsequent enhancements made for WHM and BLM increased the gap between the "pure mages" and hybrid class, and by making Convert and Refresh sub-able reduced RDM to a "I wear it for looks" Chapeau class.
not related with new jobs being added



Instead, the recommendations for enhancements to RDM were included in the development of two additional jobs

your recomandation are so balanced that SE had to create TWO jobs to implement them.

hybrid can' be strong in every domain, you want them to be strong in every domain, it won't happen deal with it



When a team of developers think think that creating two new jobs from "scratch" (read as: copy from existing jobs with some tweaks) is more important than fixing an irrelevent job, you will understand the genuine disappointment/sense of betrayal being echoed by the forsaken RDM masses.
yes because GEO and RUF will be available tomorrow!
hmm? no! they will be in 6-18 month with several job adjustment coming before

Well Ill reply as if that post were here to show where its right or wrong in my opinion.

Enfeebling from 2 jobs stacking does not effect the fact that enfeebling in itself is not being fixed for RDM, its being fixed for all jobs, everything will land enfeebling, so RDM will still have little advantage.


Hey everyone,

I have some interesting news from development regarding enfeebling magic and resistance adjustments:
A new systemfor resistance will be implemented. If we do not adjust this first, even if we were to add new or stronger enfeebling spells, the results would be minimal against enemies with high resistance. By adjusting the current resistance system, existing enfeebling spells will become more efficient. Moving forward, our next set of current and/or new spell plans will be based on the results of the resistance system revamp.

ITT: a new system of resistance = everybody will land enfeebling @ full potency

[Demon6324236]

-slow I & II doesnt stack with each other but thet stack with elegy, RDM debuff will stack with geo debuff (SE said they don't take same slot)

What makes RDM more desired than a SCH/RDM when casting slow? We can both only land 1 spell, RDM might be a little more potent but this makes little difference, chances of sticking are about the same. When presented this choice, it might not seem like a big enough difference to take RDM for the small bit of enfeebling. Now, imagine Slow I & II could stack, this would make RDM worth looking into, a single job stacking these would be amazing, but this isn't what were talking about. SE said, GEO can stack enfeebling, with other enfeebling, this means, RDM, still is just as useful as a SCH/RDM when it comes to slow, or anything like slow that it can duplicate.

The fact GEO enfeebling can stack with ours is cool and all but what does this mean for RDM? Nothing at all, RDM enfeebles do not stack on 1 another, if you could stack Slow I & II, RDM would be brought to do it, but sadly, this isn't the case I'm afraid.


ITT: a new system of resistance = everybody will land enfeebling

Let me explain yet again, I am going by the info, I heard, when I watched the Vanafest stream. They said enfeebling magic was being looked into and they were changing it, it was even being looked into that they would completely remove the ability to resist it, this makes no difference in the end anyways. Again I will say this as well, if enfeebling is easier to stick as one job, chances are, every job with enfeebling skill, will have an easier time. Not helping only RDM with this, but everything that is keeping RDM from actually joining events to cast enfeebling as well.

To help RDM they would have to make an update that only, or mainly, effects RDM, this is why I have said before they need to do what they did with Healing Magic, and make skill a very large factor in how this works, if enfeebling skill played a large role, then the job with the highest skill in it, would play an equally large role when using it.

[hiko]

if they remove resist enffebling skill become useless
they wont make a skill totaly useless

=> add enfeebling skill into potency formula

I know SE used to do some stupid stuff but that a very easy/efficient way to make skill usefull

[Demon6324236]

if they remove resist enffebling skill become useless
they wont make a skill totaly useless

=> add enfeebling skill into potency formula

I know SE used to do some stupid stuff but that a very easy/efficient way to make skill usefull

I said only what I heard them say, I agree its stupid, and I know how easy it is to fix it. As for "used to do some stupid stuff" this makes it sound like they don't do stupid things anymore... Yeah~... Either way, the changes they make to enfeebling magic has little chance that it will change things in a way that mainly or only benefits RDM.

[Doombringer]

enspells have never been unique to RDM
-sch/rdm can aoe enspells


to be fair, that pissed us all off THEN to... or me anyway <.<. rolling thunder is terrible enough to stay under the radar.


I've finally thought of the right disturbing metaphor for this situation!

Let's say a couple starts with one child. They neither love nor hate this child, they mostly ignore him and leave him to starve in a large cardboard box which slowly fills with his own filth.

Later, the couple has another child. Just a baby, right now. Another boy. Right now, they're feeding that child and showing it love. They must have loved the first child once.

Stuff happens and the first child dies of dehydration.

The second child has nothing to do with the first child's death. The first child's neglect is not a result of the second child's care. However, seeing that tiny thing all wrapped up and happy definitely hurts the first child on an emotional level. As the first child collapses into a cold and watery puddle of his own feces, I wouldn't be surprised if he gurgles, "I hope I get to haunt that little monster."

On a purely logical level, I think a lot of people know that all three jobs could live happily together like three hermaphroditic polygamists in kinda-gross union if all three jobs end up actually filling needed roles and being fun to play and not sucking horribly and stuff.

On a more emotional level, that might not matter. Stuff sucks for Red Mage right now and both new jobs seem vaguely similar to Red Mage on paper. That makes the suck, well, feel suckier. Basic suckology!


well this is practically science, so far be it for me to digress... but as a melee rdm i feel like i was actually allowed to GROW UP in the shitbox, subsisting on buckets of raw fish heads for years. until mommy and daddy finally look upon me, only to kick me in my recently dropped balls >.>



all that being said, i'm actually curious to play rune fencer... except that it's a tank.

[SpankWustler]

well this is practically science, so far be it for me to digress... but as a melee rdm i feel like i was actually allowed to GROW UP in the shitbox, subsisting on buckets of raw fish heads for years. until mommy and daddy finally look upon me, only to kick me in my recently dropped balls >.>

This would explain why Temper was okay enough for what it was meant to do, compared to significantly more horrid stuff like Scarlet Delirium or Run Wild added during the same period.

Temper was added to give hope to Red Mages who want to hit things with their things. To give them hope because it is impossible to take away something you have never given.

Or, to keep with the really gross metaphors, it was added because even the Development Bros know nothing hurts more than a critical hit to the protuberance.

[Godofgods]

Im wondering what exactly ppl expected when they all started complaining about wanting new jobs. With 20 jobs out their already, it would be nearly impossible to create another new job that doesnt step on someones toes heavily.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Exactly Godofgods, there was nearly no way for them to do it in a way to make it completely unique.

As for the "Dropping resistance entirely" you know how easily square puts their foot in their mouth, and going by all the other talk about it they were doing, im pretty sure its more akin to their plans to "Make it nigh-impossible for a monster to be totally immune to enfeebling effects, except situations where elemental resistances take priority (such as avatars)" not making every spell acting like dia. As for making GEO+SCH/WHM/BLM/ECT nearly as effective at double stacking enfeebles, i call hogwash on this. Situations where you may want to do this that id imagine would be similar to 2hour zergs, where you are fighting big big things that you dont want to act as much. In which situation, then you should certainly take a RDM because Saboteur SlowII or ParaII + aura slow/para will certainly be much more effective. But this is all a moot point because we were never taken to anything solely to enfeeble things, and i doubt we ever will be taken for just enfeebling.

Now looking to old events, how many times do you see sch be taken en-masse to voidwatch as a spacefiller? On my server atleast i usually see 2-3 rdms over 2-3 scholars for voidwatch. For dynamis, sure, thf can kill faster solo, blu can do more damage, bst is no question the king of dynamis, and ADL is just huge. But here we have an event where mp efficiency is more important for these lowman runs for coin farms, a event where temps arent being dropped every ten seconds, and while i tend to go NIN/DNC when solo, or occasionally MNK/DNC, i have gone RDM and gotten pretty close to my NIN's kill rate output. And what blu doesnt love some free Refresh II? Every time ive gone blu/dnc, even using 30-50 mp spells, with refresh idle gear, i find my stamina somewhat lacking at times.

For Limbus lowman, same deal, no instantly replenished mp every minute so this is useful on a lowman setup. Works well in old nyzul, for many of the same reasons. Einherjar i regularly go melee for rdm and a few times have been tanking the bosses for wings 2/3 over other jobs like mnks and such. No im not listing parses, the self-satisfaction i get from doing it makes me content enough. Rdm is great for lowman as it stands, and i have been asked to come it to atleast 3 events since monday. And this is with the leader knowing i have MNK/WHM/BLM/RDM/DRK/BRD/RNG/SMN/NIN/BLU/SCH all 99 with mostly +2 gear and other goodies for each.

Would i take and like more for rdm across the board? You better believe it, but i still cant see two new jobs being the straw that broke the cammel's back. If anything i see them promoting bring rdm more often. But neither of us are gonna convince eachother otherwise. But these jobs dont scare me, enrage me, or upset me. They are no threat to my rdm life and hell theres still rdms running around doing amazing things in and out of parties, it just means less cause nobody is watching it being done and throwing a hissyfit.

We will have agree to dissagree but i seriously cant see an entire expansion being added without any jobs being added, and i dont see an expansion as being evidence that they are choosing to ignore rdm specifically. Theres a lot of jobs that dont get tons of attention as of late and i dont feel rdm is a special case of this.

[tyrantsyn]

I'm happy about the new job's and the fact that there be using a lot of the same idea's that we have been talking about on the RDM forum's since most of us got here.

As for RDM, well....... IDK. It is what it is I guess.

[Camate]

Greetings everyone! I have finally returned from Japan and somehow managed to avert jet lag this time (I hope...).

As far as party support goes for geomancer, you can imagine it to be somewhat like the roles for bard and corsair. We would like players to utilize geomancy in conjunction with currently existing spells/songs/roles so that each effect supports the party more and more.

Also, there are some players who are concerned that by having enfeebles that are not resisted, red mage and other enfeebling magic will be useless moving forward. This is by no means the case since the development team is planning to make geomancy and currently existing enfeebling spells stackable. Instead of worrying about which one to use, players are encouraged to use them together to create a more powerful effect.

Additionally, in exchange for geomancers possessing an advantageous field that cannot be resisted, the effects themselves will be weaker than the effects of enfeebling spells from red mages and other jobs.

[Kalilla]

Welcome back Ca-ma-te (and Bayohne!) :)

[cidbahamut]

Also, there are some players who are concerned that by having enfeebles that are not resisted, red mage and other enfeebling magic will be useless moving forward. This is by no means the case since the development team is planning to make geomancy and currently existing enfeebling spells stackable. Instead of worrying about which one to use, players are encouraged to use them together to create a more powerful effect.


Pining Nocturne says hello.

[Vivivivi]

The more you know~

[Septimus]

Greetings everyone! I have finally returned from Japan and somehow managed to avert jet lag this time (I hope...).

As far as party support goes for geomancer, you can imagine it to be somewhat like the roles for bard and corsair. We would like players to utilize geomancy in conjunction with currently existing spells/songs/roles so that each effect supports the party more and more.

Also, there are some players who are concerned that by having enfeebles that are not resisted, red mage and other enfeebling magic will be useless moving forward. This is by no means the case since the development team is planning to make geomancy and currently existing enfeebling spells stackable. Instead of worrying about which one to use, players are encouraged to use them together to create a more powerful effect.

Additionally, in exchange for geomancers possessing an advantageous field that cannot be resisted, the effects themselves will be weaker than the effects of enfeebling spells from red mages and other jobs.

The main problem is that currently Red Mage is a waste of a party slot when enfeebles are either 100% resisted, spotty to land at best, or even easy to land. Why have a job that really cannot contribute anything of value beyond slightly more powerful enfeebles than jobs that are actually useful for fights? Fully merited Slow II with capped dMND is 39% slow (35% for 1 merit) compared to Slow I with capped dMND at 29%. (Especially when paired with 50% slow from Carnage Elegy.) Dia III is 15% defense down compared to Dia II with 10% defense down. Paralyze II can't even be compared to Paralyze I because they are so random. Blind II is... a waste of merits. None of these are worth another DD or BLM. Or a Geo when it comes out because they will be able to land their enfeebles that stack with the enfeebles that a WHM, BLM, or SCH can cast that are only slightly less potent than what a RDM can cast.

If the Development team wants Red Mage to be not in the trash pile, they are going to have to give Red Mage spells that are useful for how the game is played now- mainly enfeebles that deal with the horrendous TP moves that mobs hand out like beads at Mardi Gras. Enfeebles that reduce the power of TP moves, negate Auto Regain, lower mob Store TP, Amnesia, Paralyze-type effect for TP moves, Plague, removes additional effects (looking at you death and doom) from TP moves, etc. This would be a very good way to make Red Mage a viable and wanted job again, filling a unique niche that no other job fills.

(I fully expect all of these ideas to be added to Rune Knight.)

[Lilia]

hope....

but was is the most party form?
tank(mnk,nin,war),dds,1-2 buffer(cor and brd/whm, maybe later geo) and 1 whm or sch

i dont see the space for a rdm more, that have start with haste,cure4 from bard-
and when geo can buff and stack geospell and enfeebling and heal from sub- for what you need rdm?

is here rly 1 partyldr who can 100% say he want a rdm in party for a cor,brd or dd?

But bk to my startpost.
Is nice to see any good suggestion from rdm com. become other or new jobs....
-a ja for single spells turn in aeo spell > sch, blu
-a spere effect spell > geo
-a spell strength your off. > sounds like faith and might> rnf
- and...

[ffxititanplayer]

How about some new unique enfeebles you arent going to be giving to other jobs, so your going to give paralyze and slow to geomancer, what does that leave us with blind and addle? yippee, there are dozens of ideas strewn across the red mage forums how about you use some of that feedback you asked for and give the player what they want!

[Crimson_Slasher]

Assuming geo has a native enfeebling skill to use with /rdm or /whm.

[Llana_Virren]

-if enfeebling monster is useless geo doesn't take anything from RDM (you dont need rdm either geo exist or not)
Nor does it help RDM because enfeebles are useless outside of procs at the moment.

-slow I & II doesnt stack with each other but thet stack with elegy, RDM debuff will stack with geo debuff (SE said they don't take same slot)
See previous comment.

-we don't know how many aura a geo can put. RDM can stick all their debuff (minus element overwrite)
See previous comment.

enspells have never been unique to RDM
-http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Rolling_Thunder (not worth using but it exist) Bloodpacts do not an enspell make, the actual spells were RDM only, and definitely more potent than SMN's BP. Saying something is "not worth using" defeats the purpose of trying to show me another job that has the (same usefulness of an) ability.

-sch/rdm can aoe enspells
Another point for me, since RDM should have been able to do this long before SCH was even a twinkle in the developers' minds.


your recomandation are so balanced that SE had to create TWO jobs to implement them.
hybrid can' be strong in every domain, you want them to be strong in every domain, it won't happen deal with it
yes because GEO and RUF will be available tomorrow!
hmm? no! they will be in 6-18 month with several job adjustment coming before


You think I want RDM to be strong in every domain. Are you even playing FFXI anymore? The days of Avesta are dead! I don't care how well you can solo something on RDM, because right now, soloing is the only way you can play RDM. It has no role and no function in any group setting, and the "several job adjustments" planned have nothing to do with actually making RDM relevant.

You need to read the content, not just the headlines.


ITT: a new system of resistance = everybody will land enfeebling @ full potency
And at the peril of being a broken record: this helps RDM... how?

[SpankWustler]

Greetings everyone! I have finally returned from Japan and somehow managed to avert jet lag this time (I hope...).

As far as party support goes for geomancer, you can imagine it to be somewhat like the roles for bard and corsair. We would like players to utilize geomancy in conjunction with currently existing spells/songs/roles so that each effect supports the party more and more.

Also, there are some players who are concerned that by having enfeebles that are not resisted, red mage and other enfeebling magic will be useless moving forward. This is by no means the case since the development team is planning to make geomancy and currently existing enfeebling spells stackable. Instead of worrying about which one to use, players are encouraged to use them together to create a more powerful effect.

Additionally, in exchange for geomancers possessing an advantageous field that cannot be resisted, the effects themselves will be weaker than the effects of enfeebling spells from red mages and other jobs.


I'm glad you're feeling pretty good after the long flights!

It's cool to have this information. This is very detailed and very clear and it tells me a lot about Geomancer's enfeebling abilities.

However, what isn't mentioned is a single addition to Red Mage. That happens pretty often. I realize the topic itself has kind of a knee-jerk "Dey toork rr jorbs!" thing going on, but it also has a lot of sincere and thought-out talk about how lackluster Red Mage has become over the past year or so.

While not really surprised, I am a bit bummed out that the latter wasn't addressed at all.

[DaBackpack]

Well, no other job can wear the trademark pimp hat. That was my reason for leveling the job.

[Ophannus]

Well, no other job can wear the trademark pimp hat. That was my reason for leveling the job.

http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/f/f2/Athos%27s_Set.png

This sums up RDM completely: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZNkBmNJphc (THE DREAM IS DEAD)

[Demon6324236]

Greetings everyone! I have finally returned from Japan and somehow managed to avert jet lag this time (I hope...).

As far as party support goes for geomancer, you can imagine it to be somewhat like the roles for bard and corsair. We would like players to utilize geomancy in conjunction with currently existing spells/songs/roles so that each effect supports the party more and more.

Also, there are some players who are concerned that by having enfeebles that are not resisted, red mage and other enfeebling magic will be useless moving forward. This is by no means the case since the development team is planning to make geomancy and currently existing enfeebling spells stackable. Instead of worrying about which one to use, players are encouraged to use them together to create a more powerful effect.

Additionally, in exchange for geomancers possessing an advantageous field that cannot be resisted, the effects themselves will be weaker than the effects of enfeebling spells from red mages and other jobs.

Camate my worry is not that GEO will take RDM's place due to enfeebling not stacking. It is that the 2 magic fields RDM holds highest are its enhancing magic & its enfeebling magic, this is yet another job to do this job though. Also, RDM is getting no updates still, it seems as if these jobs have been taking away work that could have been done for RDM, and RDM is actually giving up its rule over enspells as being a job specific type of spell.

Can you also elaborate on how enfeebling magic is being thought to change? I am curious, because I see few ways this could be changed to directly enhance RDM while not enhancing WHM, BLM, and SCH's ability to enfeeble as well, and keep them as the real blocker from us being needed for such a thing.

In general, Camate, can you please at least give RDM's hope and tell us, are there any changes planed or even being considered for RDM directly? Or are we to place our hopes in the update to enfeebling magic which could easily benefit the other enfeeblers just as well?

[Eric]

I still don't understand why people are worried about GEO killing the RDM, when it's already been destroyed by post-75 BLM WHM and SCH.

[Sunrider]

I'm about as worried for GEO as for RDM, they're coming into a game where enfeebling opponents still isn't a preferred strategy over simple zerg rushes--they may well wind up languishing aside RDM.

As it is, I'm the introduction of yet more (and potentially more powerful) specialists has never meant well for hybrid classes. I just can't understand what the devs are playing at.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I'm about as worried for GEO as for RDM, they're coming into a game where enfeebling opponents still isn't a preferred strategy over simple zerg rushes--they may well wind up languishing aside RDM.

As it is, I'm the introduction of yet more (and potentially more powerful) specialists has never meant well for hybrid classes. I just can't understand what the devs are playing at.

I'm not, they''re getting potent buffs which in itself could be reason enough to be invited.



Camate my worry is not that GEO will take RDM's place due to enfeebling not stacking. It is that the 2 magic fields RDM holds highest are its enhancing magic & its enfeebling magic, this is yet another job to do this job though. Also, RDM is getting no updates still, it seems as if these jobs have been taking away work that could have been done for RDM, and RDM is actually giving up its rule over enspells as being a job specific type of spell.

Can you also elaborate on how enfeebling magic is being thought to change? I am curious, because I see few ways this could be changed to directly enhance RDM while not enhancing WHM, BLM, and SCH's ability to enfeeble as well, and keep them as the real blocker from us being needed for such a thing.

In general, Camate, can you please at least give RDM's hope and tell us, are there any changes planed or even being considered for RDM directly? Or are we to place our hopes in the update to enfeebling magic which could easily benefit the other enfeeblers just as well?

The fact they said for RDM and other jobs is proof enough this'll be a much greater bonus for BLM, WHM and SCH than it ever will RDM.

Granting them more use in a party than RDM will ever have.

[tyrantsyn]

Greetings everyone! I have finally returned from Japan and somehow managed to avert jet lag this time (I hope...).

As far as party support goes for geomancer, you can imagine it to be somewhat like the roles for bard and corsair. We would like players to utilize geomancy in conjunction with currently existing spells/songs/roles so that each effect supports the party more and more.

Also, there are some players who are concerned that by having enfeebles that are not resisted, red mage and other enfeebling magic will be useless moving forward. This is by no means the case since the development team is planning to make geomancy and currently existing enfeebling spells stackable. Instead of worrying about which one to use, players are encouraged to use them together to create a more powerful effect.

Additionally, in exchange for geomancers possessing an advantageous field that cannot be resisted, the effects themselves will be weaker than the effects of enfeebling spells from red mages and other jobs.

Really??? So I'm going to be able to stack para on top of para or slow on top of slow?



Won't that cause the Balance to explode tho?

Edit: Sorry for the sarcasm, thing's coming for this job just seem way over due at this point. I'm just tried of talking about them. Better melee gear tailor toward's a mage fencer/fighter type, enfeebling tweak's and some new spell's are sorely needed...... at least the healing thing got fix ^^

[Llana_Virren]

I still don't understand why people are worried about GEO killing the RDM, when it's already been destroyed by post-75 BLM WHM and SCH.

No one is worried. They're pissed because several abilities that were shown as going to GEO and RNK were based (in no small part) on various recommendations for RDM improvements on these forums.

We already know RDM is dead. This killed the faith a lot of people had that the ideas and recommendations made on these forums would actually be used to help RDM.

[Llana_Virren]

Really??? So I'm going to be able to stack para on top of para or slow on top of slow?



Won't that cause the Balance to explode tho?

Edit: Sorry for the sarcasm, thing's coming for this job just seem way over due at this point. I'm just tried of talking about them. Better melee gear tailor toward's a mage fencer/fighter type, enfeebling tweak's and some new spell's are sorely needed...... at least the healing thing got fix ^^

He means that "Para sphere" can stack with Paralyze, or Slowsphere with slow, not that Slow/Slow II, or Para/Para II, will stack.

[tyrantsyn]

He means that "Para sphere" can stack with Paralyze, or Slowsphere with slow, not that Slow/Slow II, or Para/Para II, will stack.

Yea, I get that part. But that's not really what I'm referring too. We've actually been told in the past that certain mob's resistance to enfeebling "let's say para" was because being able to land the spell on a mob would cause a unfair advantage and make the battle's too easy. If I can find the post I'll do a link to it.

[Llana_Virren]

Yea, I get that part. But that's not really what I'm referring too. We've actually been told in the past that certain mob's resistance to enfeebling "let's say para" was because being able to land the spell on a mob would cause a unfair advantage and make the battle's too easy. If I can find the post I'll do a link to it.

I know what you're referring to, and the concern was on spells such as Silence and Slow, which had static values. The counter-suggestion was to give enfeebles more of a dynamic value based on skill, stats and mob level, in exchange for lifted immunities, however as you can see, no changes have been made as of yet.

[tyrantsyn]

Yea I was just going threw some older post, saw one from last year talking about looking into enfeebling resistance value's. Was dated from Nov 14th of last year. Pretty much 7 month's ago.

[Llana_Virren]

Yea I was just going threw some older post, saw one from last year talking about looking into enfeebling resistance value's. Was dated from Nov 14th of last year. Pretty much 7 month's ago.

And you can see that they went the route of creating a new mage with enfeebling spheres, rather than fix RDM enfeebling. :P Oh well, maybe in another 7 months, eh?

[Creelo]

Pining Nocturne says hello.

My thoughts exactly. X_x

Would really love to be able to freely use Pining Nocturne in VW without fear that "Fire White Magic" (Addle) shows up as a weakness...

[tyrantsyn]

The enfeebling tweaks should be done way before the expansion comes about. Of course if I'm wrong I'm not going to cry about it. I'm mix on the GEO thing. For one I'm happy to see all of our idea's being used, and a little upset that there not going to the job they were suggested for. But you have to remember RDM is just a mix bag of every one else trick's. And SE seem's like that's the way they want to keep it.

[Llana_Virren]

The enfeebling tweaks should be done way before the expansion comes about. Of course if I'm wrong I'm not going to cry about it. I'm mix on the GEO thing. For one I'm happy to see all of our idea's being used, and a little upset that there not going to the job they were suggested for. But you have to remember RDM is just a mix bag of every one else trick's. And SE seem's like that's the way they want to keep it.

For the past few years, RDM has been the crumbs at the bottom of the bag of everyone else's tricks, lol.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

The enfeebling tweaks should be done way before the expansion comes about. Of course if I'm wrong I'm not going to cry about it. I'm mix on the GEO thing. For one I'm happy to see all of our idea's being used, and a little upset that there not going to the job they were suggested for. But you have to remember RDM is just a mix bag of every one else trick's. And SE seem's like that's the way they want to keep it.

Which is the exact reason it's now the job that's least played compared to it's previous standing. In fact it's only use is soloing slower than 95% of the other jobs.

[tyrantsyn]

Which is the exact reason it's now the job that's least played compared to it's previous standing. In fact it's only use is soloing slower than 95% of the other jobs.

And I agree with you, I got so bored with RDM after abyssea came out that I started to actually pass out while playing. It's a sad thing, we sit on our A+ skill and get JS to do with it.

[Koren]

They said GEO will be like BRD and COR so we're probably looking at 2, maybe 3 spheres with certain gear. So 2 debuffs, or 2 buffs or one of each is not so overpowering compared to jobs that can cast all their spells. Not to mention, unless these spheres have ridiculously huge ranges, GEO had better be pretty hardy or their spheres will be limited to mage buffs to keep out of range of danger.

The reason RDM is played less is because everyone have a plethora of jobs at disposal. When we only had one or 2 jobs to use, RDM had an advantage. If there was no healer the RDM could perform their duties reasonably. No tank, and RDM could do a decent job. If for some bizarre reason there were no DD, a RDM could also perform this role. Now everyone has a job for a particular role. Too many DD? Almost all of them have at least one mage in their job list leveled and geared. Practically no one is WHM only or WAR only anymore. In a game where players focus on efficiency, hybrid jobs like RDM which are designed to fill any role are left behind. Would you pick a RDM when you could have them switch to WHM when you need a designated healer? You wouldn't want to pick a perle WAR over a Empy WAR either.

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with RDM, when you look at it compared to other jobs, RDM is really quite powerful. But there are no events tailored to benefit a RDM. Fights are too short to really benefit from enhancing or enfeebling spells. Temp items are actually cutting down our need for healers. Each fight is isolated and people can go change jobs to benefit most from a battles weakness. One fight is magic resistant? Change to DD and zerg it down. Next battle is physical resistant? Everyone change to mage jobs and burn it down. Dangerous AoE moves next? Switch to 2-3 DD and buff the hell out of them and everyone else hit it from a distance or heal.

If you had an event that was built for the benefit of hybrid jobs things would turn around. Say a 1 party series of 3 battles. The monsters come one at a time but each monster will randomly be immune to all damage except either elemental/dark magic, melee, ranged, or holy/healing. You could get 3 melee weak mobs or one magic, one ranged and one healing weak mob. You can't warp out to change jobs or you have to start all over again with quite possibly a different set of 3 mobs. Suddenly hybrids are not looking so bad anymore compared to a WAR or a BLM who have a 1/4 chance of having use per fight.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Enfeebling Magic job trait for Rdm

Please give rdm this job trait SE, it would be similiar to thief where they get enhanced evasion job trait so that there evasion stands out among all jobs. This is needed for rdm bvecause, even with the re-make of enfeebling, rdm's rank is only slightly better than other jobs. And lets face it, there's a ton of enfeebling gear out for all mage jobs. If rdm is the primo enfeebler, having +15-20 skill over the competetion is not worth bringing a rdm. Please give rdm this job trait which gives rdm enhanced enfeebling. Perhaps it can increase the proc rate of enfeebling magic effects on a mob, or its like blm's native magic attack bonus trait, where it gives a specific amount of enfeebling magic skill/potency plus the job's superior rank.

[Badieh]

They said GEO will be like BRD and COR so we're probably looking at 2, maybe 3 spheres with certain gear. So 2 debuffs, or 2 buffs or one of each is not so overpowering compared to jobs that can cast all their spells. Not to mention, unless these spheres have ridiculously huge ranges, GEO had better be pretty hardy or their spheres will be limited to mage buffs to keep out of range of danger.

The reason RDM is played less is because everyone have a plethora of jobs at disposal. When we only had one or 2 jobs to use, RDM had an advantage. If there was no healer the RDM could perform their duties reasonably. No tank, and RDM could do a decent job. If for some bizarre reason there were no DD, a RDM could also perform this role. Now everyone has a job for a particular role. Too many DD? Almost all of them have at least one mage in their job list leveled and geared. Practically no one is WHM only or WAR only anymore. In a game where players focus on efficiency, hybrid jobs like RDM which are designed to fill any role are left behind. Would you pick a RDM when you could have them switch to WHM when you need a designated healer? You wouldn't want to pick a perle WAR over a Empy WAR either.

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with RDM, when you look at it compared to other jobs, RDM is really quite powerful. But there are no events tailored to benefit a RDM. Fights are too short to really benefit from enhancing or enfeebling spells. Temp items are actually cutting down our need for healers. Each fight is isolated and people can go change jobs to benefit most from a battles weakness. One fight is magic resistant? Change to DD and zerg it down. Next battle is physical resistant? Everyone change to mage jobs and burn it down. Dangerous AoE moves next? Switch to 2-3 DD and buff the hell out of them and everyone else hit it from a distance or heal.

If you had an event that was built for the benefit of hybrid jobs things would turn around. Say a 1 party series of 3 battles. The monsters come one at a time but each monster will randomly be immune to all damage except either elemental/dark magic, melee, ranged, or holy/healing. You could get 3 melee weak mobs or one magic, one ranged and one healing weak mob. You can't warp out to change jobs or you have to start all over again with quite possibly a different set of 3 mobs. Suddenly hybrids are not looking so bad anymore compared to a WAR or a BLM who have a 1/4 chance of having use per fight.

Well said.

[Luvbunny]

That's the problem with RDM, it's a hybrid job with no exclusive defining magic or job ability. Scholar is a hybrid job but it has some really awesome abilities that really define the job and make it shine, the healing capability trump RDM skills. Blue Mage is also hybrid job, with damage, enfeebling and buffing capabilities that dwarf RDM skills. On the soloing part, many other jobs pretty much destroyed RDM capabilities to solo now, namely: ninja, dancer, thf, blm/rdm, sch/rdm. SE has not update RDM on par to all these other jobs past 75. Adding a few crapy spells and job abilities are not what you call good update and balancing this jobs. And now the 2 new jobs basically taking away things that could have been RDM's slew of possible unique capabilities. What a sad turn out from one of the best job pre abyssea and 99.

[CapriciousOne]

Greetings everyone! I have finally returned from Japan and somehow managed to avert jet lag this time (I hope...).

As far as party support goes for geomancer, you can imagine it to be somewhat like the roles for bard and corsair. We would like players to utilize geomancy in conjunction with currently existing spells/songs/roles so that each effect supports the party more and more.

Also, there are some players who are concerned that by having enfeebles that are not resisted, red mage and other enfeebling magic will be useless moving forward. This is by no means the case since the development team is planning to make geomancy and currently existing enfeebling spells stackable. Instead of worrying about which one to use, players are encouraged to use them together to create a more powerful effect.

Additionally, in exchange for geomancers possessing an advantageous field that cannot be resisted, the effects themselves will be weaker than the effects of enfeebling spells from red mages and other jobs.

Is it just me or this read like: " Red mage will now be dependent on Geomancer to do the job it was intended and designed to do at average proficiency" ? LOL

[Kristal]

Is it just me or this read like: " Red mage will now be dependent on Geomancer to do the job it was intended and designed to do at average proficiency" ? LOL

To sum it up:
RDMs wanted more melee power, so SE added BLU.
RDMs wanted more magic power, so SE added SCH.
RDMs wanted more unique enfeebles, so SE gave RDM unique spells to WHM and PLD.
RDMs wanted real aoe enfeebles, so SE added GEO.
RDMs wanted better enspells, so SE added RNK.

[Luvbunny]

Perhaps the new man in charge can do something better in positioning RDM in the current game state and do the big revision similar on how they revamped WHM, SCH, DRG and PUP in the past. It is about time he does this and overturned the crappy legacy of the unmentionable who no longer in charge. Hopefully the new direction will be far better than the old school crap that has been shoved down our throats...

[CapriciousOne]

To sum it up:
RDMs wanted more melee power, so SE added BLU.
RDMs wanted more magic power, so SE added SCH.
RDMs wanted more unique enfeebles, so SE gave RDM unique spells to WHM and PLD.
RDMs wanted real aoe enfeebles, so SE added GEO.
RDMs wanted better enspells, so SE added RNK.

I couldn't put it better myself LMFAO. I swear what I wouldn't give to be able to put my foot up somebody at SE arse.

[CapriciousOne]

Perhaps the new man in charge can do something better in positioning RDM in the current game state and do the big revision similar on how they revamped WHM, SCH, DRG and PUP in the past. It is about time he does this and overturned the crappy legacy of the unmentionable who no longer in charge. Hopefully the new direction will be far better than the old school crap that has been shoved down our throats...

Well I certainly hope so because every since I started playing the offline versions from 7 to 12 I have been pretty happy overall with the series, storylines, jobs, pretty much everything. Now that I played this MMO however, if I knew they was going to do the game like this I might not ever been bothered with this game at all. Maybe my expectations were too high. In any case, since there is new management I guess I will give the new guy his fair shake and see what he is going to do about the current situation. I would say that he can't do much worse than the last guy but history has a way of making me eat those words so I wont say it.

[zataz]

i enjoy playing on my rdm. i personally dont see any issues with the job. but at the same time im not big on large group events. i just have fun with it for what it is. and how i feel about geo lol i hope it kills rdm so less people will be on my job mwhahaha. but seriously ive been rdm since 2003 its ups and downs ill just ride it till this game goes away and love the job for what it is.

[cheyrn]

I also enjoy playing on my rdm. The phrase "playing on my RDM" is meaningful. Most of this thread talks about RDM as if it is your identity. I can relate to that partly (I am certainly a mage). And I am fond of my rdm job. From the perspective of someone who isn't a this or a that though, is it more interesting to learn to play a new job or have new abilities added to an existing job? Probably, if you were a game developer it would be more interesting to create new jobs than augmenting existing ones.

Why does it matter how RDM compares? If you've invested a lot of time into developing your RDM, for a moment, it's frustrating to see a new shiny thing that you could have invested time in instead, if it had existed. A video game probably shouldn't be thought of as work though. Developing a job is fun fun fun, except because of the influence of other players it's work.

I don't think of FF as a sport. I think most people do, which can get really unpleasant when it's taken to extemes. The story and environment is what I spend time in the FF series of games for. I'm here for the NPCs mainly, not for other players, though I've liked nearly everyone I've met in this game, including the competitive players.

In terms of game play, I like learning the nuances of a job more than winning contests. It's too bad that it matters so much how RDM compares in terms of the super-mundane aspects of game playing. As someone else said in this tread, RDM is what it is. Parties could be fun if people wanted that instead of having a contest. Why, we could form a conga line from Windurst to Bastok, if only.

My choice of RDM as what I spent most of my time on was because it wasn't a specialist and allowed me to be more independent in exploring this incredibly great game. It sounds like it will still be that. The other jobs are interesting too.

[Trangnai]

I also enjoy playing on my rdm. The phrase "playing on my RDM" is meaningful. Most of this thread talks about RDM as if it is your identity. I can relate to that partly (I am certainly a mage). And I am fond of my rdm job. From the perspective of someone who isn't a this or a that though, is it more interesting to learn to play a new job or have new abilities added to an existing job? Probably, if you were a game developer it would be more interesting to create new jobs than augmenting existing ones.

Why does it matter how RDM compares? If you've invested a lot of time into developing your RDM, for a moment, it's frustrating to see a new shiny thing that you could have invested time in instead, if it had existed. A video game probably shouldn't be thought of as work though. Developing a job is fun fun fun, except because of the influence of other players it's work.

I don't think of FF as a sport. I think most people do, which can get really unpleasant when it's taken to extemes. The story and environment is what I spend time in the FF series of games for. I'm here for the NPCs mainly, not for other players, though I've liked nearly everyone I've met in this game, including the competitive players.

In terms of game play, I like learning the nuances of a job more than winning contests. It's too bad that it matters so much how RDM compares in terms of the super-mundane aspects of game playing. As someone else said in this tread, RDM is what it is. Parties could be fun if people wanted that instead of having a contest. Why, we could form a conga line from Windurst to Bastok, if only.

My choice of RDM as what I spent most of my time on was because it wasn't a specialist and allowed me to be more independent in exploring this incredibly great game. It sounds like it will still be that. The other jobs are interesting too.

RDM has a big issue when it comes to endgame, basically at this point to develop your RDM you need to have another job leveled/geared in order to advance your rdm. Its upseting to say the least. I love my RDM to death. But noone needs it. Meaning you will not be chosen because the gap is too wide and you don't fill the void that is required to be filled. Which means your RDM doesn't get any better toys to play with.

Outside of that pretty much all hybrids are great for exploring solo content and past content. anything that's soloable is normally done by a hybrid class that has enough understanding, gear, atmas etc. to be able to preform the needed task. But in the end it is a game, enjoy it and have fun. As long as you do that it doesn't really matter what RDM becomes as long as you have fun with it.

[Demon6324236]

RDM has a big issue when it comes to endgame, basically at this point to develop your RDM you need to have another job leveled/geared in order to advance your rdm. Its upseting to say the least.Agreed, I myself hate this aspect of how you have to gear RDM.

[ManaKing]

RDM has a big issue when it comes to endgame, basically at this point to develop your RDM you need to have another job leveled/geared in order to advance your rdm. Its upseting to say the least. I love my RDM to death. But noone needs it. Meaning you will not be chosen because the gap is too wide and you don't fill the void that is required to be filled. Which means your RDM doesn't get any better toys to play with.

Outside of that pretty much all hybrids are great for exploring solo content and past content. anything that's soloable is normally done by a hybrid class that has enough understanding, gear, atmas etc. to be able to preform the needed task. But in the end it is a game, enjoy it and have fun. As long as you do that it doesn't really matter what RDM becomes as long as you have fun with it.

My RDM is lvl 99. I didn't start working on other jobs until after I got my Excalibur, which was after I made an Almace. It's about persistence and the job being rewarding, not the rewards being rewarding. Also, I have and always have been a Melee RDM. I just started building tougher and tougher until I could solo almost anything that doesn't require a group anyways.

More recently, I made a couple of friends that I play with almost all the time. Why? Because we like each other's company, not because we use each other for gear.

Is what I did too much work for most players, since there are easier paths? Sure. But it's not impossible. You just have to be annoyingly stubborn and not cave.

RDM lacks an easy button. It's not there, so don't look for it. It's a good job. It's not a well balanced job and needs work, but it's still good.

[cheyrn]

I thought of an analogy. Imagine that you that you are among a group of vanilla ice cream fans who are complaining:

"We have been asking for chocolate for years and instead of giving it to us they've made chocolate ice cream. Now we'll never have any chocolate."

Vanilla is not the only flavor that you can experience ice cream through. It's a peculiar reaction that nearly all the comments are from the point of view that RDM is your identity and you are being denied something. I understand it but it's not the only type of reaction that could be had. I think I would be somewhat suprised if I were one of the squeenixes. We can view our place in the entire game as our identity, instead of seeing RDM as our identity. We could think that we like the way that enfeebling magic fits into a battle, and oh look these types of characters use it, I will explore enfeebling magic via these types of characters.

It sounds like I would have a hard time finding people to play with for end game stuff at lvl99 as a RDM. Luckily I don't have to be a RDM for all the roles that I might want to explore. If it is not RDM I'm on for those roles, I don't think it would make me any less fond of the RDM job. RDM is not dead, it's still RDM. Other roles are on the horizon.

[Trangnai]

My RDM is lvl 99. I didn't start working on other jobs until after I got my Excalibur, which was after I made an Almace. It's about persistence and the job being rewarding, not the rewards being rewarding. Also, I have and always have been a Melee RDM. I just started building tougher and tougher until I could solo almost anything that doesn't require a group anyways.

More recently, I made a couple of friends that I play with almost all the time. Why? Because we like each other's company, not because we use each other for gear.

Is what I did too much work for most players, since there are easier paths? Sure. But it's not impossible. You just have to be annoyingly stubborn and not cave.

RDM lacks an easy button. It's not there, so don't look for it. It's a good job. It's not a well balanced job and needs work, but it's still good.

I must say, I'm rather impressed by that. Can I meet your friends? lol But then again, relics, emps etc are not really endgame anymore. But the job done is impressive none the less.

I never said don't enjoy the game or what it has to offer, RDM is great and fun. however due to being overused pre-abyssea its now never used post sense SE decided the job didn't need buffs when the rest got them. now they are throwing out excuses for why they can't do the things we want. even thought we try to provide a explanation of how said things would work, how it could be overpowered, underpowered, or need to be nurfed to work within the game only to be ignored or told "oh, X isn't possible because of Y". Thought they cannot provide proof. But then again they also can't just go showing us the source code of the game, SE would give the full dev team a boot quicker then Bill Gates makes a million dollars.

I really only complain about rdm needing buffs because its showing its age, everyone else has something new, rdm still has 75. We may have gotten a few new spells here and there and a couple tiers of Fast Cast.... and.... pfft Shield Mastery.

While its understandable for a Hybrid to be a little behind specialist classes. The gap is far wider then it needs to be and it makes rdm alot less potent then it needs to be in most endgame roles. Most people in this thread don't want to be a white mage, or a black mage or a warrior or a paladin. They want to be a red mage. But it seems like SE doesn't want red mage to be. That is why we want buffs for rdm. Not because it isn't a good hybrid but rather, if it stays this far behind while others continue to advance it will eventually reach a point where RDM isn't wanted at all because it will be so impotent it won't even be worth filling a slot with.

[Luvbunny]

Well guess what? another nail just being put in RDM coffin, as if there are not way too many to begin with. Now embrava is giving player refresh effect.....instead of regain. It would be nice to give regain TP spells to RDM and others party buffing spells as well, as it is now, between WHM and SCH, there is really no need for any alliance to bring RDM to any events whatsoever since the role of the job can be covered with those two other jobs and do a much better than any RDM can possible bring to an alliance.

[ManaKing]

It sounds like I would have a hard time finding people to play with for end game stuff at lvl99 as a RDM. Luckily I don't have to be a RDM for all the roles that I might want to explore. If it is not RDM I'm on for those roles, I don't think it would make me any less fond of the RDM job. RDM is not dead, it's still RDM. Other roles are on the horizon.

Somewhat true. Is a RDM the same as a BLM in VW? Depends on how many you already have and who you are with. Other fun fact, you can actually land enfeebles for procs.

RDM is actually pretty cool in most low man content, SO LONG AS YOU ARE GEARED TO THE TEETH. I hope everyone realizes why I bolded and underlined that. It's really, really, ridiculously important to be geared on RDM. Why? Because we slide into mediocre really fast. I take mine to meebles, I've 3 manned goldwing. Everything else, I believe will require a full party though.


Well guess what? another nail just being put in RDM coffin, as if there are not way too many to begin with. Now embrava is giving player refresh effect.....instead of regain. It would be nice to give regain TP spells to RDM and others party buffing spells as well, as it is now, between WHM and SCH, there is really no need for any alliance to bring RDM to any events whatsoever since the role of the job can be covered with those two other jobs and do a much better than any RDM can possible bring to an alliance.

You are completely incorrect. Embrava is now 90 seconds. MATH!!!!

[Demon6324236]

Embrava is going to be a Refresh II SCH can cast 1 time every 30min, with some added bonus. Thats about all it means for mages. I agree RDM is good in lowman stuff. One of my friends actually convinced me I should go to NNI as RDM, after thinking about it its not such a bad idea, RDM should work fairly well especially if I get my PDT set upto par by then, and most buffs that need cast can be cut down on by the SCHs. For Meebles RDM is awesome, go in, buff up, shouldn't have to rebuff before the end, potent healing & DDing with the added fun of survival & extra buffs. The one thing I'm starting to hate is now I have got my LS starting to do higher level stuff, like Neo-Limbus & Meeble Burrows, and still everything is immune to Grav... I would like to be able to Grav Goldwing & Pyrrhn, make them much less annoying.

[Luvbunny]

You are completely incorrect. Embrava is now 90 seconds. MATH!!!!

Embrava should not give refresh effect, they should keep the regain effect. It is now last 90 x2.5 with AF3+2 hand, exactly 3 minutes, 45 seconds, MATH!!!!

They should add something new for RDM, revamped their spells so that RDM can buff the entire party or even alliance, isn't that one of RDM uniqueness - enhancing and debuffing the mobs plus crowd control?

[Demon6324236]

3.75min still isn't very long when a RDM can give you a longer refresh easily... and much more often.

Debuffing is... kinda RDM I suppose... Buffs is really COR, BRD, & WHM, not RDM, it may have included RDM in the past a bit but that went south as soon as all RDM spells were self only, and lol at crowd control. Crowd control is BLM Sleepga, BRD Sleepga, BLM Breakga, SCH Manifestation, RDM has very little for crowd control, and none of it really unique except our wonderful Gravity which sticks to nothing.

[Luvbunny]

LOL so what can RDM contribute to a party or alliance now other than refresh 2 spells? It seems that SCH is taking over our buffing capabilities, and they can nuke way better and heal way better than RDM. Blm, Sch and Brd takes care of crowd control. And Blu is the uber melee mage jobs. I wonder what is the definition of RDM now?

What I am trying to get across is why SE is giving refresh effect to embrava? It seems that all things that used to be in RDM repertoire is given away to other jobs and rendering RDM moot to end game events.

[Demon6324236]

A well geared RDM can give you a DD with the power to heal & access to magic damage if needed while providing some buffs to your other members, keeping your mages MP up if they do not have MP temps, and debuffs on mobs. Given, this is not often very helpful right now, but sometimes you can make it work, DDing can be done if you have good enough gear in VW, as I said in the other thread, I was 2nd & 3rd 6 fights in a row against Aello excluding 1 with a bad start.

[Trangnai]

A well geared RDM can give you a DD with the power to heal & access to magic damage if needed while providing some buffs to your other members, keeping your mages MP up if they do not have MP temps, and debuffs on mobs. Given, this is not often very helpful right now, but sometimes you can make it work, DDing can be done if you have good enough gear in VW, as I said in the other thread, I was 2nd & 3rd 6 fights in a row against Aello excluding 1 with a bad start.

And sadly, you will still be outpraised by miles on any of the properly geared melee classes, still be out cured by miles by anything that can cast a cure outside of subjob, out buffed by miles on anything except refresh. If you're high in a priase it means one of two things, plyer doesn't know there job or there job isn't geared properly. granted you had a relic, which is a huge boost to any class. But it could also be the main DDs you had were holding back on fear of getting hate or something stupid.

Granted RDM is great for general peroprse roles, where they can preform everything at once. but people don't want that. they want a scapegoat, where they can grab a rdm to fill a role that isnt fillable. But the payer has rdm allowing them to fill role effecently without looking into other classes. Then again all i'm saying could be thrown out the window really, I haven't done much voidwatch as rdm. the ones i did do there wasent really a need for rdm. Maybe RDM is more capable on praises in VW then I assume, but it feels as if a little bit behind has become miles behind. Its something doesn't sit right with me, and justifying it by one persons achivements (for the good and the bad of rdm) is the heart of the problem.

[Demon6324236]

Well to be perfectly honest imo there are not many good RDMs around. RDM is fairly good or bad, depending on the work put in and the level of your gear, if most people look at RDM & see it as subpar for most things then yes its going to be poorly geared by them & its not getting much of anywhere, but if you gear it up well enough it can put out. RDM is the 3rd best healer atm, SCH 2nd thanks to Rapture & Regen, WHM 1st thanks to Cureskin, and I suppose Cure V if its needed. DD power for RDM is not uber amazing, but Req has given it good numbers, Dia 3 does not only increase the RDM's DD, but anyone meleeing, which makes it more valuable, and buffs admittedly RDM loses in basically every way to any other job except in the case of Phalanx & Refresh if needed.

Imo RDM's don't get praise when another job is doing bad, but rather when the RDM is doing good. Often times you can see looking at the party as a whole if the party itself is whats sucking, or if the party is good and the RDM is simply keeping up. If everyone is bad & the RDM is keeping up then the RDM is doing nothing special, I mean yes, they are keeping up with bad DDs, but thats nothing, however if the party is doing well, and the DDs are DDing properly, and the RDM is able to keep up still, then the RDM is doing something right, rather than the others doing something wrong imo.

I may have taken what you said wrongly, idk, I admit I'm tired & I took sleeping meds about 3 hours ago so I wouldn't be all to surprised if they are fuckin with my head atm, but I hope that came across right. In the end when it comes down to it, RDM can offer very little that no other job can do, and in Alliance situations like VW or Legion, that does hurt the job, but thats why lowman things like Meeble Burrows make it shine, it can fill a healer role & a DD role in 1, it can even play crowd control a bit if need be, it can do none of this as well as other jobs, but it can fill them still, and when your party only can consist of 6 people it helps to have 1 player fill 3 roles instead of only 1.

[ManaKing]

Embrava should not give refresh effect, they should keep the regain effect. It is now last 90 x2.5 with AF3+2 hand, exactly 3 minutes, 45 seconds, MATH!!!!

They should add something new for RDM, revamped their spells so that RDM can buff the entire party or even alliance, isn't that one of RDM uniqueness - enhancing and debuffing the mobs plus crowd control?

Which is still not 5 minutes x 2.5 which is why you wouldn't waste a 30 minute ability on refresh unless you actually had a mage party that would need more MP. The reason RDM isn't everyone's mana battery anymore is they don't need it to be. They aren't replacing us with SCH, because that's not really our spot anymore, they are just putting SCH in it's place.



What I am trying to get across is why SE is giving refresh effect to embrava? It seems that all things that used to be in RDM repertoire is given away to other jobs and rendering RDM moot to end game events.

Yeah we know, we were nerfed before abyssea ever came out, we aren't the ones crying about nerfs because it's not happening to us. Go make another thread about how you deserve nice things for minimal work and reinstating chocobo blinkers prices so we can have a bloated economy. You'll get no sympathy from us since we never got any help from anyone else when our job was destroyed multiple times and you just stood around and watched.

[Luvbunny]

Yeah we know, we were nerfed before abyssea ever came out, we aren't the ones crying about nerfs because it's not happening to us. Go make another thread about how you deserve nice things for minimal work and reinstating chocobo blinkers prices so we can have a bloated economy. You'll get no sympathy from us since we never got any help from anyone else when our job was destroyed multiple times and you just stood around and watched.

LMAO, RDM + SCH + SMN are my favorite jobs when the level cap was at 75. When they nerf RDM to oblivion, giving addle to Whm, convert + refresh to everyone that sub rdm, and yet giving the job minimal gain, SMN + SCH ended being the two that are still good. Then the proposed nerf happened to those two jobs. I still fail to see why they ignore the RDMs thread, and refuse to give us a clear definition of what the job can and should be. I still think those youtube videos of RDM soloing everything at lvl 75 cap is to blame. When a job is working as intended in the hand of capable players and they can do the impossible, aka finishing contents, the nerf bats will swing.

FYI: don't really care much about blinkering fiasco, never really did it at all, it affect me none the slightest. But must they also make the cruor abysea gears non sellable to vendors?? I am not here to complaint about these. I am here to wonder why they keep giving RDM spells to every other jobs out there but not giving the job their own exclusive spells that make it stand out from the rest. When VW was introduced in its first few months, people actually bring out RDM again for tier 2 paralyze, slow, blind, bio 3 and dia 3 being one of the proc spells. And some mobs you want to chainspell stuns them. Then we pretty much dropped down and no longer needed once the zerg strategy is formulated and our spells no longer proc anything.

[Trangnai]

Well to be perfectly honest imo there are not many good RDMs around. RDM is fairly good or bad, depending on the work put in and the level of your gear, if most people look at RDM & see it as subpar for most things then yes its going to be poorly geared by them & its not getting much of anywhere, but if you gear it up well enough it can put out. RDM is the 3rd best healer atm, SCH 2nd thanks to Rapture & Regen, WHM 1st thanks to Cureskin, and I suppose Cure V if its needed. DD power for RDM is not uber amazing, but Req has given it good numbers, Dia 3 does not only increase the RDM's DD, but anyone meleeing, which makes it more valuable, and buffs admittedly RDM loses in basically every way to any other job except in the case of Phalanx & Refresh if needed.

Imo RDM's don't get praise when another job is doing bad, but rather when the RDM is doing good. Often times you can see looking at the party as a whole if the party itself is whats sucking, or if the party is good and the RDM is simply keeping up. If everyone is bad & the RDM is keeping up then the RDM is doing nothing special, I mean yes, they are keeping up with bad DDs, but thats nothing, however if the party is doing well, and the DDs are DDing properly, and the RDM is able to keep up still, then the RDM is doing something right, rather than the others doing something wrong imo.

I may have taken what you said wrongly, idk, I admit I'm tired & I took sleeping meds about 3 hours ago so I wouldn't be all to surprised if they are fuckin with my head atm, but I hope that came across right. In the end when it comes down to it, RDM can offer very little that no other job can do, and in Alliance situations like VW or Legion, that does hurt the job, but thats why lowman things like Meeble Burrows make it shine, it can fill a healer role & a DD role in 1, it can even play crowd control a bit if need be, it can do none of this as well as other jobs, but it can fill them still, and when your party only can consist of 6 people it helps to have 1 player fill 3 roles instead of only 1.

You're entirely right on this. Red mage is great when it comes to low-man content. The problem comes when a rdm wants get into EG such as voidwatch or legion or any of the new Alliance based End Game. Its especially difficult to get into said content when you can't get your gear up to par. This is relitively harsh for newer rdms and new players of all types, other classes however have abilities and traits that relieve that strain a little bit. where rdm does not.


LMAO, RDM + SCH + SMN are my favorite jobs when the level cap was at 75. When they nerf RDM to oblivion, giving addle to Whm, convert + refresh to everyone that sub rdm, and yet giving the job minimal gain, SMN + SCH ended being the two that are still good. Then the proposed nerf happened to those two jobs. I still fail to see why they ignore the RDMs thread, and refuse to give us a clear definition of what the job can and should be. I still think those youtube videos of RDM soloing everything at lvl 75 cap is to blame. When a job is working as intended in the hand of capable players and they can do the impossible, aka finishing contents, the nerf bats will swing.

FYI: don't really care much about blinkering fiasco, never really did it at all, it affect me none the slightest. But must they also make the cruor abysea gears non sellable to vendors?? I am not here to complaint about these. I am here to wonder why they keep giving RDM spells to every other jobs out there but not giving the job their own exclusive spells that make it stand out from the rest. When VW was introduced in its first few months, people actually bring out RDM again for tier 2 paralyze, slow, blind, bio 3 and dia 3 being one of the proc spells. And some mobs you want to chainspell stuns them. Then we pretty much dropped down and no longer needed once the zerg strategy is formulated and our spells no longer proc anything.

Yes, but thats not our falt. There are plenty of MMOs that ensure that kiting tatics are more difficult on boss monsters of any type. SE failed to consider that and instead saw it as a tactic that wouldn't be abused.

They didn't consider future buffs to the job and how they would allow rdm to solo content, but to nerf the enfeebling directly would break rdms ability to fill its role in other areas where they wanted it to be able to do such. So they ended up giving complete immunity to NMs over curtain enfeebles, however they fear buffing rdm due to the fear of omg rdm can solo stuff.

Its rather stupid when you see people constiantly soloing/low-maning content anyway. SE just needs to give up the ghost and buff rdm. there is nothing wrong with it being capable of soloing content at this point.

[ManaKing]

RDM isn't dead, as the post seems to over-exaggerate. It's just a job that gets almost nothing for free and is beginner friendly, but has nothing to get it to end game except hard work. The job may or may not get buffs in the next couple of months and it may or may not be relevant to new content in the new expansion.

It is relevant to low man setups and becomes more relevant when abilities like Embrava and PD get nerfed because they are crutches that people use when they want to Zerg and Zerg more. RDM offers cushioning with enfeebles so long as the mob isn't completely immune to enfeebling and can do things like Haste and Cure as well as contribute to DPS in one form or another. To SEs credit, there are more and more NMs that you can land enfeebles on.

Will people ever appreciate what RDM can do instead of just write it off? Who cares anymore, people are stupid. So long as RDM can be useful, people will play it and like it. So long as people play RDM well, other people can appreciate having a good RDM around.

[Demon6324236]

My current problem with enfeebling is that 1 I want to use, which I have currently actually had a use for, is still unable to stick to anything I come across I actually need it on!

[Llana_Virren]

RDM isn't dead, as the post seems to over-exaggerate. It's just a job that gets almost nothing for free and is beginner friendly, but has nothing to get it to end game except hard work. The job may or may not get buffs in the next couple of months and it may or may not be relevant to new content in the new expansion.

It is relevant to low man setups and becomes more relevant when abilities like Embrava and PD get nerfed because they are crutches that people use when they want to Zerg and Zerg more. RDM offers cushioning with enfeebles so long as the mob isn't completely immune to enfeebling and can do things like Haste and Cure as well as contribute to DPS in one form or another. To SEs credit, there are more and more NMs that you can land enfeebles on.

Will people ever appreciate what RDM can do instead of just write it off? Who cares anymore, people are stupid. So long as RDM can be useful, people will play it and like it. So long as people play RDM well, other people can appreciate having a good RDM around.

2005 called, they want you to know that this kind of RDM is the kind that's been dead, reanimated and now roams the world of vana'diel as a corse.

[Trangnai]

RDM isn't dead, as the post seems to over-exaggerate. It's just a job that gets almost nothing for free and is beginner friendly, but has nothing to get it to end game except hard work. The job may or may not get buffs in the next couple of months and it may or may not be relevant to new content in the new expansion.

It is relevant to low man setups and becomes more relevant when abilities like Embrava and PD get nerfed because they are crutches that people use when they want to Zerg and Zerg more. RDM offers cushioning with enfeebles so long as the mob isn't completely immune to enfeebling and can do things like Haste and Cure as well as contribute to DPS in one form or another. To SEs credit, there are more and more NMs that you can land enfeebles on.

Will people ever appreciate what RDM can do instead of just write it off? Who cares anymore, people are stupid. So long as RDM can be useful, people will play it and like it. So long as people play RDM well, other people can appreciate having a good RDM around.

I think you are ove exaggeratting what people ae saying, No, RDM isn't dead. But it is dying. Due to lack of a real update to the job. If RDMs role doesn't eveolve with the rest of the game people will eventually write it off entirely. RDM is still a fun, playable job. But I know I at least feel like not much has changed from the 75 days, except monsters now being immune to my enffebles even more and everyone else getting a slowing increasing gap on the job from where it stands with the rest of the jobs in the game.

[ManaKing]

I think you are ove exaggeratting what people ae saying, No, RDM isn't dead. But it is dying. Due to lack of a real update to the job. If RDMs role doesn't eveolve with the rest of the game people will eventually write it off entirely. RDM is still a fun, playable job. But I know I at least feel like not much has changed from the 75 days, except monsters now being immune to my enffebles even more and everyone else getting a slowing increasing gap on the job from where it stands with the rest of the jobs in the game.

My RDM is very much alive, I was pointing out that people talk sideways about things they don't play anymore because it requires too much work for them. Case in point:


2005 called, they want you to know that this kind of RDM is the kind that's been dead, reanimated and now roams the world of vana'diel as a corse.

I can land enfeebles in Meebles and VoidWatch. Gain-INT is 25 free INT just waiting for you. It's not hard if you actually use your head a little bit. I'm landing Blind on Pil right now, first try, no elemental seal. Does Blind do anything against Pil? Obviously not, but at least you can land proc spells.

RDM didn't get a lot of upgrades, this is true. But most people don't have decked out RDMs anyways. What's the point in listening to a bunch of people who aren't willing to gear the job? RDM requires more gear than almost any other job. We still need updates, sure, but most people's RDMs need work too. It's not fair to blame SE entirely for the state of RDM, since I don't know of almost any other RDMs on my server that are as well geared as I am.

I'll tell anyone first hand that RDM becomes increasingly powerful as you start to get closer to being well geared. Get an Excalibur, or Almace to 95+ and see what kind of a difference having weapons with actual damage on them does for your kill times. Don't have a good MAB set? What's stopping you? PDT, Enhancing, and Stoneskin sets. Start filling those out and suddenly your shitty RDM can actually do things and take hits to the face in plenty of situations.

Yes we still need updates, but we also need people to actually play RDM like they are serious about playing it. You can get into VWs as 2-4 + enfeebles if people need another BLM. I wouldn't suggest you go as a WHM replacement, but I hate healing anyways. You can even Melee some of the things so long as your TP and WSs don't look as crappy as 90% of all RDMs are. You can't half ass this job and expect good things. That's not how it works.

[Demon6324236]

I don't know of almost any other RDMs on my server that are as well geared as I am.I wonder if you count me in there... >_>

Yes we still need updates, but we also need people to actually play RDM like they are serious about playing it.

You can even Melee some of the things so long as your TP and WSs don't look as crappy as 90% of all RDMs are. You can't half ass this job and expect good things. That's not how it works.This is so very true, and yet so few seem to understand or accept it!

[Llana_Virren]

Yes we still need updates, but we also need people to actually play RDM like they are serious about playing it. You can get into VWs as 2-4 + enfeebles if people need another BLM. I wouldn't suggest you go as a WHM replacement, but I hate healing anyways. You can even Melee some of the things so long as your TP and WSs don't look as crappy as 90% of all RDMs are. You can't half ass this job and expect good things. That's not how it works.

The problem is that even the serious RDMs, as I used to be, got sick of a job that was being left behind. Congrats on landing Blind on Pil... but the issue isn't the accuracy of our spells on mobs it can land on... its that the monster is either immune to the spell, or the spell carries negligible, if any effect.

Spending 2 years as a Hastebot for ToAU parties didn't help either, and having been overlooked on both Enhancing and Enfeebling spells (which we were championing through our prime years) further distanced players from the job.

What many people chose not to see, is that having a "well geared RDM" was the argument in 2005/2006 against letting a RDM do things outside of the typecasted role. This is 2012, going on 2013, and the job is not being played in anything other than solo (or tight-knit lowman groups) because the job has nothing to contribute to the game.

This is the cold honest truth about it, and anyone who thinks otherwise truly is living in the past.

[Psxpert2011]

:(
before the event i was rly hopeful, but now..... T.T

So much good ideas and become rdm only one? no alltime other (new) jobs.
RLY SE for what you want rdm?

Geo and RFN is the last coffinnail for the rdm

I'm so sorry about this. :(

Being a Monk and all, I think there's times we need to be concerned with our role and how we'll stack up to other jobs. Maybe SE is just throwing new jobs out there from new ideas and the community it labeling it "new XXX job" substitute.
Hopefully when adventurers get to learn the news jobs, it'll be clear no one is being replaced and forgotten.

Good luck to all you Musketeer RDMs! ;)

[Afania]

The problem is that even the serious RDMs, as I used to be, got sick of a job that was being left behind. Congrats on landing Blind on Pil... but the issue isn't the accuracy of our spells on mobs it can land on... its that the monster is either immune to the spell, or the spell carries negligible, if any effect.

Spending 2 years as a Hastebot for ToAU parties didn't help either, and having been overlooked on both Enhancing and Enfeebling spells (which we were championing through our prime years) further distanced players from the job.

What many people chose not to see, is that having a "well geared RDM" was the argument in 2005/2006 against letting a RDM do things outside of the typecasted role. This is 2012, going on 2013, and the job is not being played in anything other than solo (or tight-knit lowman groups) because the job has nothing to contribute to the game.

This is the cold honest truth about it, and anyone who thinks otherwise truly is living in the past.

The honest truth about RDM, and every "left behind" job in general, is the way FFXI job system is designed. If you really really NEED a job, that's due to certain job has 1 aspect makes the event goes MUCH better. Otherwise you don't need it. And whether that 1 aspect of the job is needed or not, depend on most optimal strat currently discovered by players.

You don't need debuff in VW with temps zerg fest with little problem on time, thus if you only do VW, then you don't need RDM.

You need CS stun and Dia3 in legion(not necessary for the win, but makes shit much easier), thus if you do legion, you need RDM.

There's a set of most optimal setup for VW, and for legion. And RDM just happened not be in optimal setup for VW, and be in optimal setup for legion.

This also apply to many other jobs. Before players discover SCH Embrava Nyzul strat, it was an unwanted mage job. Then they discover SCH makes NNI a lot easier, and that's how it become a must have mage job for NNI due to 1 aspect of the job.

I'd say it's too early to say GEO RNF is useless or not, or if it will make RDM even less useful or not. Because this completely depend on what game content coming after SoA.

If player found pt setup with RDM DRK WAR MNK best setup for SoA content, then RDM will be needed. If players found best pt setup is RNF GEO WAR SAM, then RNF and GEO will be needed. However, we can't really predict what's next game content looks like, nor what kind of optimal setup playerbase will tend to use, so it's hard to say.

[ManaKing]

I wonder if you count me in there... >_>
This is so very true, and yet so few seem to understand or accept it!

Yeah, you're in there. You made not just 1 prestige weapon, but 2, you clearly aren't half assing your job. I'm not sure what your other sets looks like, but if you put as much effort into them as your melee sets then they are probably well off. If you haven't yet, you probably can rectify it pretty quickly, since you've at least learned how to do at least 1 part of RDM well. The rest take just as much time and are equally annoying to perfect.

[ManaKing]

its that the monster is either immune to the spell, or the spell carries negligible, if any effect.


Really because in VW, Pil was just sitting their drooling on himself because I landed Blind. Previous to a couple patches ago, you couldn't land enfeebles in VW about 1/2 the time. RDM got left out because enfeebles couldn't contribute to playing the same proc games as other jobs could. Now they can. RDM isn't fixed, but at least the newer content isn't specifically made to exclude RDM.

Once again, offer 2-4 and enfeebles. Get invited to VW on RDM. A couple of months back, not so much.

Do our enfeebles do anything? Not really. Dia 3 against most. Against some things, they will cripple NMs, but not against anything you would bring more than a party against. Still better than not even being considered in the game at all.



Spending 2 years as a Hastebot for ToAU parties didn't help either, and having been overlooked on both Enhancing and Enfeebling spells (which we were championing through our prime years) further distanced players from the job.

What many people chose not to see, is that having a "well geared RDM" was the argument in 2005/2006 against letting a RDM do things outside of the typecasted role. This is 2012, going on 2013, and the job is not being played in anything other than solo (or tight-knit lowman groups) because the job has nothing to contribute to the game.

This is the cold honest truth about it, and anyone who thinks otherwise truly is living in the past.

Have fun not playing your RDM. Don't gear it. And certainly never let anyone know you ever liked it. That way everyone thinks that no one plays RDM.

I'll keep gearing my other jobs on my RDM and full-timing my RDM. Why? Because it's possible and fun.

[Llana_Virren]

Really because in VW, Pil was just sitting their drooling on himself because I landed Blind. Previous to a couple patches ago, you couldn't land enfeebles in VW about 1/2 the time. RDM got left out because enfeebles couldn't contribute to playing the same proc games as other jobs could. Now they can. RDM isn't fixed, but at least the newer content isn't specifically made to exclude RDM.

Once again, offer 2-4 and enfeebles. Get invited to VW on RDM. A couple of months back, not so much.

Do our enfeebles do anything? Not really. Dia 3 against most. Against some things, they will cripple NMs, but not against anything you would bring more than a party against. Still better than not even being considered in the game at all.

Spending 2 years as a Hastebot for ToAU parties didn't help either, and having been overlooked on both Enhancing and Enfeebling spells (which we were championing through our prime years) further distanced players from the job.



Have fun not playing your RDM. Don't gear it. And certainly never let anyone know you ever liked it. That way everyone thinks that no one plays RDM.

I'll keep gearing my other jobs on my RDM and full-timing my RDM. Why? Because it's possible and fun.

Even retired my RDM is better geared than most for magery. But inviting a RDM for 2-4 and enfeebles can easily be accomplished by me going on blm, subbing rdm (or sch) and covering MORE procs.

And if you landing Blind on Pil debilitated it as adequately as you say it did, I'd tell you to lay off the crack.

[Babekeke]

With the new system and enough casts, you can probably land Blind on Pil as smn/rdm lol.

[ManaKing]

Even retired my RDM is better geared than most for magery. But inviting a RDM for 2-4 and enfeebles can easily be accomplished by me going on blm, subbing rdm (or sch) and covering MORE procs.

And if you landing Blind on Pil debilitated it as adequately as you say it did, I'd tell you to lay off the crack.

Proc = locked in VW, or do you somehow not know that?

Also get off your high horse, if you think your retired RDM is up to par then maybe you need to lay off the crack. Sure you can gear your RDM by gearing your SCH or BLM, but if you're not going to play your RDM, then why are you even here? You copped out and now you are trying to condescend on people that are willing to stick it out and play what they like instead of what is easy. Here's a slow clap to see you out you classy, classy gentleman/lady.

[Daydreamer]

Redmage should be allowed to ARISE. I think these spells would give redmage new life.:cool:

"RefreshJA" Cast it more times on the team members to enhance its affect based on enhancing magic skill and gear.

"HasteJA" Cast it more times on the team members to enhance its affect based on enhancing magic skill and gear.

"PhalanxJA" Cast it more times on the team members to enhance its affect based on enhancing magic skill and gear.

"Potency aura" Increase Physical and Magical critical hit rates. critical hit rates will increase with enhancing magic skill and the number of times the effect is casted on the group up to cap.

They can be as expensive as you want them to be for balance but it would be a fun way to give redmage haste II in a sense, and it would be better overal by making it AOE just have to use MP to build its haste powers vs targeting 5 people to give haste II .

The same can be said about the rest and Phalanx II is just never going to really be very awesome. Fix Diablos phalanx and give redmage a phalanxJA that starts at the same dmg taken down and increases 3 points of damage for every recast up to maybe 12~18 points more of damage mitigated. still going to eat up alot of mp but RDM has a lot of MP to eat up.

RefreshJA, I think its fair and balanced even without talking about the final number values it will hand out. The redmage would still have to keep on top of the refresh powers, can still use refresh II for the party members you want to single out.

Despite the Hydra hat from a long long time ago. There is almost no other way to get the effect of potency besides abyssea / VW / brown casket items. Also I dont think potency effects Magical critical hit rates, let this one effect both of those. Its a fun and fair way to up the critical hit rates on players.

Overall I believe this set of Spells would increase the use of redmage and hopefully bring it back from the dead. While still maintaining balance and maybe even tipping the scales back in the players direction so long as you bring your redmage along.

[Luvbunny]

Agreed, Arise and Meteor should have been given to RDM, and so is Embrava. Heck if they do not want to share Embrava, RDM should get Mighty Guard :P

[Mageoholic]

RDM would be better served by adjusting the mechanics of enfeebling and enhancing magic to actually affect potency, not new spells or abilities. You can't build a house without a foundation, and presently RDM's foundation in enfeebling and enhancing is decaying. When a BRD/RDM can do everything a RDM main can do just as well, in addition to all of its BRD stuff, there is a problem, and that problem isn't the abilities or spells RDM has access too. It is how those abilities and spells potencies are determined. A BRD/RDM gets a full 15% haste, it can cap a 29% Slow I and the ACC to land it!, fix the mechanics, then add to the job.

[Llana_Virren]

Proc = locked in VW, or do you somehow not know that?

Also get off your high horse, if you think your retired RDM is up to par then maybe you need to lay off the crack. Sure you can gear your RDM by gearing your SCH or BLM, but if you're not going to play your RDM, then why are you even here? You copped out and now you are trying to condescend on people that are willing to stick it out and play what they like instead of what is easy. Here's a slow clap to see you out you classy, classy gentleman/lady.

I retired my RDM because being an MP battery was not fun, or advantageous to my time spent in the game. And despite your sensitive response, the fact of the matter is that RDM is not dying. It is dead. It has been dead for years, and will continue to be so.

Suggesting that RDM is "fun" is misleading. It is fun if you like to play solo, or low-man with close friends.
RDM has and continues to offer nothing to end-game content, and for that reason I stopped having fun playing it.

[Demon6324236]

I have fun playing my RDM, but then again I play it as a DD and a mage in one as few do. I do good damage and have no problem getting in parties with those who trust me to do my shit well. RDM is only dead if you either play it bad, or if you let it stay that way, I let my RDM live and gear it well, getting better each day. You cant expect RDM to just be a Refresh/Haste whore like before, play the job the way I have been and I can assure you, it will give you something worth playing.

[ManaKing]

I retired my RDM because being an MP battery was not fun, or advantageous to my time spent in the game. And despite your sensitive response, the fact of the matter is that RDM is not dying. It is dead. It has been dead for years, and will continue to be so.

Suggesting that RDM is "fun" is misleading. It is fun if you like to play solo, or low-man with close friends.
RDM has and continues to offer nothing to end-game content, and for that reason I stopped having fun playing it.

And cop out. See ya. Seriously, get out of here. RDM is still fun. You're just a quitter.

Sorry you can't figure out how to play RDM in end game content. It's already been discussed. You clearly don't like playing RDM. Stop posting here.

[SNK]

And cop out. See ya. Seriously, get out of here. RDM is still fun. You're just a quitter.

Sorry you can't figure out how to play RDM in end game content. It's already been discussed. You clearly don't like playing RDM. Stop posting here.

No offense but she's right. It's a dead job. I can't even remember the last time I was asked to gear up my RDM. For anything.

Ever.

[Demon6324236]

Because people don't specifically ask for it, its dead?

[saevel]

Because people don't specifically ask for it, its dead?

It's dead because there is nothing RDM can do that another job can't do better. Healing is for WHM, magic damage is for BLM, meleeing is for the pure DD's, White + Black magic is for SCH, hybrid DD / healing / crowd control is for BLU. All of them above can "enfeebled". Buffing / Party Support is for WHM, BRD, COR, SMN, and SCH, all can do everything RDM provides are more. Hell BLU/RDM can do everything RDM can do, while also doing AoE Haste most of the time (ST haste in between).

Seriously, no reason to use RDM ~ever~. It's a direct result of SE totally ignoring the job for years and giving it weak gear options combined with weak magic / JA / JTs.

[ManaKing]

No offense but she's right. It's a dead job. I can't even remember the last time I was asked to gear up my RDM. For anything.

Ever.

Because a job is not asked for, it is useless. Excellent we have some more geniuses in here tell us the definition of what it means for a job to be dead in video game terms.

It can still be played and be useful, but hey because no one shouts for one, they must be non existent.

[Demon6324236]

See it as you will then, I don't see the job as dead, I see it as underused, because people don't understand how to use the job anymore to be effective. It is not more effective in any of those fields than the job that is supposed to be better in those fields, because its not meant to be. It can still do what it needs to, the only thing that needs improved is the ability to use Brave/Faith to focus our power on what we are doing the most of at the time, as well as fixing our shit merits and fixing our spell list by adding new tiers and buffing old spells which were broken with the cap going up, not to mention the spells like En-IIs that were broken to start. Past that, job is fine, which is why I still play it and recently have almost been playing RDM exclusively on Demonjustin.

[SpankWustler]

Arguing that a job is valid because it "is useful" is just as extreme as arguing that the job is dead. Any game in FFXI can be useful, but there are 20 of the darn things, so it's a matter of which is more useful or most useful.

Even though combining Chainspell with Stun might come back in vogue once Embrava and Perfect Defense are adjusted, there's the counter-argument that two Scholars would have low enough Stun recasts for the entire event rather than a 120 (140) second burst of TONS'O'STUNS. Or, depending on the monster, the new Paladin or Thief SP might be a better solution by then.

Red Mage might be really great for that one thing, eventually, but it looks from a distance like the job has competition for a niche it doesn't even have yet.

Things like "useful" and "dead" are very strong terms and very subjective. "Fun" is even more subjective. Objectively, Red Mage is one of the least useful jobs in FFXI currently and it needs tools it does not have.

[Ordoric]

what do you rdm elites want?

[Llana_Virren]

See it as you will then, I don't see the job as dead, I see it as underused, because people don't understand how to use the job anymore to be effective. It is not more effective in any of those fields than the job that is supposed to be better in those fields, because its not meant to be. It can still do what it needs to, the only thing that needs improved is the ability to use Brave/Faith to focus our power on what we are doing the most of at the time, as well as fixing our shit merits and fixing our spell list by adding new tiers and buffing old spells which were broken with the cap going up, not to mention the spells like En-IIs that were broken to start. Past that, job is fine, which is why I still play it and recently have almost been playing RDM exclusively on Demonjustin.

The problem is not that RDM isn't "as good" as the non-hybrids. RDMs aren't supposed to heal better than WHMs or deal more damage than BLMs or melee better than WARs. But that isn't the problem.

At 75-cap RDM was better than WHM because it could suspend its MP pool long enough to maintain haste and refresh cycles without losing the ability to also Cure. Once WHM regained its proper role as a master healer, RDM had no other "niche" to fill; for procs, a BLM/rdm can cover more procs than RDM/anything; for any high-intensity battlefield WHMs and SCHs could provide more survivability and enhancements than RDM.

So, the problem is really that RDM never had a niche to fill. Up until the 75-cap was raised, RDM was simply a glorified Pink Mage; used in place of WHMs due to MP management tools. Yes you could enfeeble things, but we're not in 2006 any more. The events that we do now do not need enfeebles, and if they do, BLM/rdm or WHM/rdm or SCH/rdm can still handle it.

RDM has nothing that it can offer to the game. To say that it is "fun" is OK, but just because something is fun for you does not mean it is relevant to the game. I'm sure some people have fun playing PUP, but you're rarely, if ever going to find someone going PUP to end-game events.

[Calatilla]

Yes you could enfeeble things, but we're not in 2006 any more. The events that we do now do not need enfeebles, and if they do, BLM/rdm or WHM/rdm or SCH/rdm can still handle it.


Here-in lies the problem, enfeebles need to be made relevant and tiered by skill, adjust enfeebles like they did with cures. Do that and RDM becomes relevant again.

[ManaKing]

RDM just needs some buffs to any one of the many places it has become deficient since 75 to be more attractive and useful.

The list of what we want has already been made probably 50 or 60 times on the NA forums. Honestly, it's just negligence at this point that RDM is still in such obvious, bad shape.

Just because it's not anywhere near the strong side of the job list doesn't mean it's dead. It still has uses. It still has tactics to be used. PD/Embrava are going to be less effective. Which means CCS is going to be more useful for extremely dangerous situations. Dia III is still 5% more defense down than Dia II. If you have 33% less time in PD immunity, you better hope that you are maximizing your Zerg.

[saevel]

Even though combining Chainspell with Stun might come back in vogue once Embrava and Perfect Defense are adjusted, there's the counter-argument that two Scholars would have low enough Stun recasts for the entire event rather than a 120 (140) second burst of TONS'O'STUNS.

CSS is good and dead for 90% of things you need them on. RDM only has an E in dark magic skill and due to the way skill caps raised after level 76 RDM's dark magic is so low that even stun's magic acc bonus isn't enough. SCH's on the other hand have B+ in dark magic with DA up, that is before their gear and staff options.

RDM @99 = 300 base Dark Magic Skill
SCH @99 = 404 base Dark Magic Skill

A level 110 monster had 450 base magic evasion, and gains another 7 for each level. This doesn't take into account any natural resistance to thunder nor any resistance (natural or accumulative) to the stun status effect.

So yeah two x SCH/BLM's can stun lock pretty much anything.

[SNK]

Because a job is not asked for, it is useless. Excellent we have some more geniuses in here tell us the definition of what it means for a job to be dead in video game terms.

It can still be played and be useful, but hey because no one shouts for one, they must be non existent.

Because the last time a PLD asked for Refresh was how long ago?

Oh wait yeah Phalnax II for the tanks.... shit PLD can cast it now.

It's a job that went from being one of the most in demand jobs circa 2004/2006 to a job that is flat out worthless now outside of the bitter amusement from those who still cling to the false hope that SE will do something to make it stand out like it used to.

I would have thought this would have sunk into more people's heads after the last annoucement regarding RDM's new.... and pretty much worthless JA.

It was a fun ride but thankfully my other main job is still viable for stuff outside of Dynamis.

[Pebe]

I believe that rdm can still have a nitch as an enfeebler they just need to give rdm enfeebles that are worth a damn and that cripple the mob.

What enfeebles we currently have that cripple the mobs:
Silence, Sleep, Bind, Blind, Paralyze, Dia III and Bio III(not really enfeebles), Addle, Gravity ( I know I am missing something)

So going over the enfeebles: We have ways to hinder the mobs spells(silence and addle), and attacks(everything else). What we are lacking are enfeebles that hinder a mobs tp moves, this is the real killer. Thus I propose this:
Give rdm Amnesia and Stop and/or Terror. Now everyone will say oh thats to overpowered blah blah blah. SMN gets 60 seconds of invincibility and an instant death move(doesn't work on NMs I know). Blu gets a 15 second terrorize on a 5 min timer. Technically they could terror lock something for 60 seconds with their new 2hr. All that is important is how these enfeebles are implemented.

For instance: Amnesia - sticks well on normal monsters, make its last 60 seconds max, most normal monsters die in 5 seconds anyway. It should be able to stick well on normal NMs and lower lvl HNMs but grow in resistance fast. For High lvl HNMs, like chamber of Mul, it should be extremely resistant. People will say oh but this is then useless. I will explain why it is useful later.

Terror - Should be a glorified dark based stun that can last as long as shock squall. Shock squall is still better because its AoE and thats fine. Give the smns some sort of niche XD. It should stick well on normal monsters and NMs, should stick also moderatly well on HNMs with a very good enfeebling build(makes rdms have a reason to pimp out their enfeebling). I see nothing wrong with this because it will operate the same as shock squall. Perhaps make HNMS have a shorter duration of terror max, like 7 seconds instead of 15. Balance and all that jazzz.

Stop - Should only be able to use this under RDM's new enfeebling 2hr. This new 2hr guarantees an enfeeble will land regardless of resistance.(If the mob is immune it should make it land as well >.>, it is a 2hr....well soon to be 1hr... after all. This also where amnesia gets it usefulness on HNMs. If for some reason you needed an HNM to keep moving and casting but not do TP moves. Like a kite fight or something, or something where the mob changes damage types when it casts etc) So basically stop will be the end all be all enfeeble for rdm(I gave up hope on time mage q.q). If you think about it combines all other enfeebles. Enfeebles are meant to hinder the mob in any way shape and form, Stop is the epitome of that.This ability should last a good 30 to 60 seconds, preferably 60 because that is how long PD will cap close too on a fully decked out smn. Actually you can have duration be based on enfeebling magic skill. More incentive to gear rdm the best as possible.

As an aside, a new enfeeble I just thought up:
Phase - prevents and enemy from changing their "stance" (IE: Amphatrite and Lusca with their damage type changing BS). When this is on the mob it will prevent one occurence of stance change and then wear off. Keep it on a long timer like 2 mins so it can't be abused. Also forces more bringing of rdms if you want to use this for strategy.

Edit: As I was writing the phase enfeeble i forgot to mention that Stop should hinder stance changes as well. The mob should literally be frozen in time. The reason I say this is because countless times when thigns were red staggered in Abyssea they would still change their damage type resistances even though they weren't actually doing anything... soo annoying.

Edit 2: New enfeeble
Name pending - Nullifies an enemies Physical and magical resistances for 60 seconds. (IE botulus,slimes, etc) This should also be on the 2hr. You should have to choose between nullifying the offensive or defense capabilities of a mob. Also, they should not be stackable.

TLDR - Give RDM the enfeebles it deserves!

Edit 3: Holly Hell Grammar errors, My typing fails

[Ordoric]

make moss less squishy so you need debuffs

[Glamdring]

@ Pebe

I'm on board with all you listed, although I think at best we could hope for an either/or on Stop or Terror. I also think a castable Plague wouldn't be out of the question. Granted, with mob TP gain rates-especially in todays "Zerg or GTFO" strategy world Plague might be a bit underwhelming, not to mention SE would probably nerf the player version to something like the strength of Break, i.e. a spell that is only useful for proccing magic in neo-Dynamis.

Still, way to brainstorm man, keep it up. If they ever actually make enfeebs useful again you might just have given rdm a breath of life if SE uses any of your ideas.

[Calatilla]

I wouldn't say paralyze cripples a mob, 90% of the time it doesn't even proc before it wears off. Unlike a mobs version.

[Pebe]

Are you sure Calatilla? What are you using it on. With a full mind/enfeebling potency build it should proc a good amount from my experience. Are you sure you are not using it on things like Botulus, ig alima, hapries, mantises etc whose regular attacks count as tp moves? That would be the reason you are not seeing a lot of procs, all their melee swings are tp moves. So the only thing paralyze can proc on on those mobs is spells...so paralyze kind of acts like the silence because most are highly resistant/immune to silence... its stupid. Although immunobreak does help that.

[saevel]

Are you sure Calatilla? What are you using it on. With a full mind/enfeebling potency build it should proc a good amount from my experience. Are you sure you are not using it on things like Botulus, ig alima, hapries, mantises etc whose regular attacks count as tp moves? That would be the reason you are not seeing a lot of procs, all their melee swings are tp moves. So the only thing paralyze can proc on on those mobs is spells...so paralyze kind of acts like the silence because most are highly resistant/immune to silence... its stupid. Although immunobreak does help that.

Most NM's have flat paralyze effect reduction outside of the dMND calculation. Saboteur Para II might get some effects but that only stops it's attack rounds not it's super aoe death moves. Its in the same category as Slow, fine on paper until you realize that the threat comes from their special moves and unblockable fast cast magic.

Plague won't mean sh!t on a NM. With more then two people hitting it the monster is getting 100Tp every few seconds, reducing it by a bit won't change anything. Monster TP moves are limited by it's AI's and whatever timer it's set to. Silence and Sleep will never be allowed to land, neither will Gravity nor bind (newer NMs). This is cause a bunch of RDM's went around soloing everything and posting youtube videos which in turn got the devs really REALLY pissed off.

Your best bet is for enfeebled that reduce the monsters base stats, things like Def Down, Magic Acc Down, Magic Attack Down, Attack Down, Critical Hit Down and even TP inhibition. Those are fairly straightforward and can be fit into many strategies without becoming overpowered. Remember anything remotely OP gets the entire job hit with a sledge hammer.

[Sarick]

I believe that rdm can still have a nitch as an enfeebler they just need to give rdm enfeebles that are worth a damn and that cripple the mob.

What enfeebles we currently have that cripple the mobs:
Silence, Sleep, Bind, Blind, Paralyze, Dia III and Bio III(not really enfeebles), Addle, Gravity ( I know I am missing something)

You are missing slow, poison and break.

I've been trying to say most of what your saying. I've explained this before. It seems SE wants to keep the enfeebles weak so they aren't one man armies. They can't figure out boosting the RDM's current capabilities by linking them to the number of party/alliance these issues wouldn't exist solo/low man. It would beef the job up for alliances and still have balance.

No they're waiting to introduce GEO/RDM pair like the new SCH and SMN where paired up. Apparently RDM will be viable again when paired with a GEO. It'll be nice for a few months maybe a year to grab players attention then SE will nerf the crap out of it like they're doing with SMN and SCH.

The developers did say something about weakening SCH and SMN to balance changes for the new jobs.