BYE TANAKA!

[Yugl]

From Team NA! Good luck with whatever you pick up next~

[saevel]

F*CK YEAH!!!

When are we throwing the wheels up party?

[Phafi]

Let's not have a thread to bash him more, there's been enough of them. It was said he was leaving for "health reasons."

[Yugl]

This isn't a bash thread.

[Llana_Virren]

Let's not have a thread to bash him more, there's been enough of them. It was said he was leaving for "health reasons."

So far not a single bash was posted. Let's read threads before we make remarks on them, shall we?

[saevel]

Let's not have a thread to bash him more, there's been enough of them. It was said he was leaving for "health reasons."

That's code for being forced into retirement.

Last year I said that by 2~3Q FY2012 Tanaka would be forced out of the game due to his inability to listen to players and poor vision for a MMORPG. He has proven to be very capable at making single player console RPGs, and completely inadequate at making MMORPGs. He treated FFXI and FFXIV as just another single player console RPG, but with many players, and look what it did to both of those games. Community members stated several times that things were broken and their "vision" of both games were flawed, he refused to listen, even to his own test server / beta players. They took him off FFXIV to get that game fixed, and so far it's worked extremely well. Now that he's messed up FFXI even more (since abyssea) their pulling him off to increase profitability.

His choice was retirement or being humiliated by being made the executive manager for archival of file 13.

[Phafi]

idk, there was a fuck yeah and it can attempt to prevent future posts doing it.

[Yugl]

Allow me to be clear then. I did not create this thread with the intention of bashing him. However, I cannot control the posts that follow subsequently. That is for other posters and mods to control.

[Zumi]

Can only hope his health gets better after his retirement.

[saevel]

Can only hope his health gets better after his retirement.

His health is perfectly fine. "Health Reasons" is the generic statement used in East Asia when someone is stepping down from a position of influence (Politician / Business) and they want to save face. SE can't publicly fire him as it would make them look bad, so instead they give you a choice, early retirement (all benefits of course) or be put into a position with a fancy title but absolutely zero responsibility or input into any decisions, executive director of a closet for example. Most take the retirement and live out their days doing hobby work, some cling on and refuse to leave.

[Puck]

I don't like what he did with XI and XIV, but he worked on some of the best single-player RPGs of all time. So, I hope he gets back on that and stays away from online games. He directed the DS remake of FFIII which was great, and was a producer on loads of great games I'm sure you're all fond of: Xenogears, Chrono Cross, Secret of Mana. Oh, and he was a programmer on one of my favorite games of all time: Final Fantasy Legend II (SaGa II in Japan).

So even though I think his policies were bad for XI and XIV, I wouldn't go so far as to condemn him entirely. He's done good work, but online games just aren't his thing and it's taken too long for SE to realize that.

[Monchat]

so the guy to replace him is Matsui. Isn't he the guy in charge of XIV atm, who is responsible for the remains of tanakardization over there (relic weapons, world NMs, bad drop rates, bad UI, grind etc). Lets not get the hopes to high.

[Llana_Virren]

so the guy to replace him is Matsui. Isn't he the guy in charge of XIV atm, who is responsible for the remains of tanakardization over there (relic weapons, world NMs, bad drop rates, bad UI, grind etc). Lets not get the hopes to high.

He went to FFXIV after it flopped to do damage control. Don't associate him with the flub that was FFXIV. He also was an underling in Tanaka's FFXI, so he's already familiar with both. Also, he will be in charge of both XI and XIV until a new head for XIV is appointed.

[Puck]

He went to FFXIV after it flopped to do damage control. Don't associate him with the flub that was FFXIV. He also was an underling in Tanaka's FFXI, so he's already familiar with both. Also, he will be in charge of both XI and XIV until a new head for XIV is appointed.
Wut?
Naoki Yoshida, better known as Yoshi-P, is in charge of XIV. He's both producer and director. As for XI, it's been Mizuki Ito more or less in charge for a while now.

[Mifaco]

Every log and ore I NPC from now on, I'll always remember Tanaka

[Evan]

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201206/24016883.html


ーーなぜ、勇退を決意されたのでしょうか？

田中　じつは難病を患っており、体調的な面もあって、今回の決断をさせていただきました。プレイヤーのみなさんやスタッフに迷惑をかけるわけにもいきませんし、どこかのタイミングでケリをつけなきゃとは思っていたんです。またひとりのクリエイターとして開発現場に戻りたいということもあり、退職をお願いしました。


Why, what has been decided to retire voluntarily?

Tanaka : Suffering from incurable diseases and Tanaka fact, there also aspects physical condition, I was allowed to make a decision this time. So it does not bother to go to our players and staff, and I have to put a buttoned at the timing is not somewhere I had expected. Sometimes it is you want to go back to development as a creator of one site, and asked to retire also.

/cheer to you Tanaka San

[hideka]

Let's not have a thread to bash him more, there's been enough of them. It was said he was leaving for "health reasons."
Because even if were not bashing tanaka we are all thinking this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2fQ4d89jXc

[MAXWINTER]

I have just resub to ff11 not because of this but because a new expansion is now set for next year , it is what i wanted to see to make me resub, this a few days after i almost left ff 14 for good so i have decided to give 14 another shot.

The direction the games go in will be if i stick with them or not.
Not trying say anyone style is better than another just that i know what style of game play i enjoy.

On tanaka, i wish him good health and respect the type of games he makes but they just not what i enjoyed, really i hate to see people in poor health and it would be great if he can recover and his family there for him because thats whats most important.

[Anapingofness]

I didn't agree with some of the decisions Tanaka made (in regards to FFXI and FFXIV) but I had no ill will toward the man. After all, business is simply business. Nothing personal.

That aside, I hope he gets better and enjoys his retirement to the fullest.

[Camiie]

Am I glad he's going to be gone from XI? Yeah, I am. I don't wish him any pain or suffering though and I'm sure most people don't. We can have it both ways on this. I think most of us can separate the professional from the personal.

[Mirabelle]

Well hopefully with Tanaka retired there's a chance the 1500 HMP requirement is adjusted. Preferably before the new expansion goes live and everyone abandons VW entirely.

[Monchat]

they won't change it due to many people having already completed. What could change is more ways to acquire them, which in the end amounts to the same.

[Sayomi]

they won't change it due to many people having already completed. What could change is more ways to acquire them, which in the end amounts to the same.
Yea but I don't know if you remember but when relic trials first came about they consisted of an insane amount of kills after slaving away I finally finished them just to have them severely lowered in the near future, they can do anything they want, they have shown this much, honestly they need to fix the Umbral issue, 20m+ a pop is ridiculous I could just make another relic and have them both 95 instead of having one 99 lol

[Oscar71]

Well hopefully with Tanaka retired there's a chance the 1500 HMP requirement is adjusted. Preferably before the new expansion goes live and everyone abandons VW entirely.

Everything in this game is doable. The way to get this is to get an LS that is willing to help one specific member to get the HMPs. If you really wanted to, it could be done in a matter of a month. The only things that really need fixing and balance are stupid events where its a PD + Embrava + Zerg fight. THat is where the balance issues are. When people see soloing as a triuphant feat, they need a new game. When people see an MMORPG as a place to generate a virtual income and base an economy on greed, they need a game. When people see not needing friends and only use them as tissue paper, they need a new game. This game isn't hard. Its just full of lazy, greedy, stupid people.

[Monchat]

Yea but I don't know if you remember but when relic trials first came about they consisted of an insane amount of kills after slaving away I finally finished them just to have them severely lowered in the near future, they can do anything they want, they have shown this much, honestly they need to fix the Umbral issue, 20m+ a pop is ridiculous I could just make another relic and have them both 95 instead of having one 99 lol

umbral marrow prices have diminished tremendously, due to demand droping. 20m a pop you're being cheated. on quetz they are 18m+ in bazar but do not sell for that price.

[Return1]

Tanaka gets so much UNDESERVED hate it's unbelievable.

If not for him there wouldn't have been a FFXI. You also have him to thank for getting us Seekers of Adoulin. Hindsight tells a different story. People were hating on the lack of content to VW and Legion and such, Tanaka gets the blame and is called shit all throughout, while this whole time they've been working on a relatively large expansion with all original areas, new enemies, new jobs, new gameplay, new guilds, etc. in secret. I guess he just grinned and took it like a man, since it seems the devs actually do like to participate in the community when no one's watching and I doubt he missed the massive shitstorm of hate and whining. He apparently loved FFXI.

Then come vana'fest, the man looked pretty damn ill. Seriously, look at a pic from a year ago or so, then watch his vana'fest footage. I was talking about it with my friend and wife, and at the end he retired due to "health problems".

Thank you very much Mr. Tanaka.

[BurnNotice]

I will pray for his speedy recovery on his health issue. In the corporate world, resignation due to "Health Issues" has been used and abused far too often, but we can never really imagine what challenges maybe facing. Mr. Tanaka, I "/solute" you on being a great innovator and producer/director some of SE's great single player games. Big shout out on Chrono Cross (I wish a direct sequel was made) Final Fantasy III & Final Fantasy Legends II. I am sure he has one heck of a demanding position with the company and at sometimes probably felt like it was overbearing. But, I give you thumbs up for stepping to the plate and trying to make a difference on FFXIV & FFXI. I say use that energy you have, Tanaka, and look into doing remakes and sequels to the games that in demand for the Chrono series and Final Fantasy franchise.

[Siiri]

Thanks to Mr. Tanaka for his service to Square since 1983. I didn't always agree with his design choices, but cannot deny his love for video games and contributions over the past 30 years. He was the driving force behind a lot of great single player games, and helped shape FFXI which has been around and much loved for 10 years. I wish him the best in his retirement and long happy life for his remaining years. He did look sick at the vanafest and hope retirement will agree with him.

[oliveira]

I'd like to mention that you guys are being ungrateful to an generous extent. The man did help make the Final Fantasy franchise what it was on the Final Fantasy VII days. Now, if you want to target someone for the games doing poorly, target the CEO Yoichi Wada. -_-;

[Gaspee]

Thanks to Mr. Tanaka for his service to Square since 1983. I didn't always agree with his design choices, but cannot deny his love for video games and contributions over the past 30 years. He was the driving force behind a lot of great single player games, and helped shape FFXI which has been around and much loved for 10 years. I wish him the best in his retirement and long happy life for his remaining years. He did look sick at the vanafest and hope retirement will agree with him.

Completely agree. I wish him well.

[Lastranger]

Thank u for the many game expieriences given to us by your hard work over the years, Hope your health gets better and that u enjoy ur retirement.

[Nala]

I don't like what he did with XI and XIV, but he worked on some of the best single-player RPGs of all time. So, I hope he gets back on that and stays away from online games. He directed the DS remake of FFIII which was great, and was a producer on loads of great games I'm sure you're all fond of: Xenogears, Chrono Cross, Secret of Mana. Oh, and he was a programmer on one of my favorite games of all time: Final Fantasy Legend II (SaGa II in Japan).

So even though I think his policies were bad for XI and XIV, I wouldn't go so far as to condemn him entirely. He's done good work, but online games just aren't his thing and it's taken too long for SE to realize that.

Eh i hated chrono cross from its storyline basis, while the battle system was somewhat innovative from a standard take turn RPG it felt like a step back from what chrono trigger was also via scraps and tidbits basically suggest that every main character from trigger was dead including robo (prometheus was integrated into mother brain and eliminated during the course of the story) that and it had far too many characters with little to now back ground story or direct story line involvement, having a few POWERFUL but baseless special characters is nice, but not 30+ (iirc 40ish total) non essential and normal playable characters.

That said cross had some of the best music of its time, have a few of em in my mp3 player in fact good nostalgia music.

Heh kind of got off on a long tangent, he has really done some great works in the past but the fact that he will no longer be heading up 11 makes the future of the game seem brighter as such i will not miss him as director of this game, though am sad to know that SE had lost some good expertise in the single player world.

In reguards to the undeserved hate he had garnished while lack luster content was being released due to the new expansion being developed i can't agree that it was totally undeserved, only in the fact that if they were going to go through with this they could have been teasing us with tidbits and hints all the while much like how they use to when these forums first came out instead of letting people get pissy and subscriptions starting to lapse.

Would have kept peeps interested/excited through the bland parts.

tl;dr Disliked Chrono Cross' story line for killing off trigger's characters, will not miss tanaka where 11's concern but SE did lose a great man, he deserved any hate he got during the last year of lack luster content because he failed to hint/tease to keep us placated and or excited for things to come.

[Arciel]

Tanaka-san,

Thank you for 10 years with Final Fantasy XI.
All the best in future and take care of your health!

田中さん

このＦＦＸＩの１０年間に大変ありがとうございました！
お大事に　お疲れ様でした

[Sparthos]

Tanaka gets so much UNDESERVED hate it's unbelievable.

If not for him there wouldn't have been a FFXI. You also have him to thank for getting us Seekers of Adoulin. Hindsight tells a different story. People were hating on the lack of content to VW and Legion and such, Tanaka gets the blame and is called shit all throughout, while this whole time they've been working on a relatively large expansion with all original areas, new enemies, new jobs, new gameplay, new guilds, etc. in secret. I guess he just grinned and took it like a man, since it seems the devs actually do like to participate in the community when no one's watching and I doubt he missed the massive shitstorm of hate and whining. He apparently loved FFXI.

Then come vana'fest, the man looked pretty damn ill. Seriously, look at a pic from a year ago or so, then watch his vana'fest footage. I was talking about it with my friend and wife, and at the end he retired due to "health problems".

Thank you very much Mr. Tanaka.

He gets hatred as a developer, not as a person. It's totally fair to call Tanaka out on all the silly, poor, backwards and stubborn decisions that got him the ire of both NA/EU/JP players because so many of them could have been avoided had Tanaka stopped developing in his bunker and communicated with the base that would have been more than happy to nudge him in the right direction.

For all the mockery of balance and Tanaka himself most players would have liked the guy if he simply had been more vocal to the concerns of his customers. He may have been skilled at single-player games but it was clear that Tanaka was not the ideal choice for MMOs and he nearly killed two SE titles in the process.

You're right that time will tell if Tanaka was the sole reason this game suffered so much but as it stands:

Tanaka the developer = Bad.
Tanaka the person = Unknown.
Tanaka the ailing human being = Deserving of empathy.

[Raksha]

http://asecular.com/ran/0310/usslincoln_files/bush-mission.jpg

[Dragoy]

I was listening to/watching the stream at night/early morning (my time), and while I do understand quite a bit of Japanese, I wasn't quite certain that he was 'passing the torch' and leaving, but there we have it.

I'm sure there are people jumping for joy, but I for one do hope he will be OK, and am able to say thank you, and farewell with the best regards in mind.

さ
ら
ば
だ
。
。
。

[Zerich]

desu tanaka-san....desu

[ForeverZero]

I hope Tanaka will be ok and has a quick recovery. Thanks for all you have done for Final Fantasy XI and past games, Tanaka!

[saevel]

The reason there is so much hate for Tanaka is that he worshiped the status quo and used it as his guiding principle. Basically his design philosophy was that nothing should change. New gear, content and abilities, as long as nothing changes. Our relative power level and ability to accomplish goals must remain the same no matter what content is released, hence the years and years of side grades and "situational" gear. The fact that gear obtained in 2005 was still not only relevant but often the most powerful in slot in 2008 is testament to the problem. He didn't like Abyssea because it changed the status quo and allowed us to do things we couldn't do before thus forcing more work on the development team. He then spent the rest of the time after Abyssea trying to force the status quo of 2008 back onto us.

This isn't a bad idea for single player console RPGs, it's the absolute worst thing you can do for dynamic evolving MMORPGs.

[Dazusu]

This isn't a bad idea for single player console RPGs, it's the absolute worst thing you can do for dynamic evolving MMORPGs.

Considering Tanaka had no idea what he was doing - FFIX has done pretty well for its self being in its tenth year of service, with enough subscribers to warrant a new boxed expansion and thousands of people turning up to VanaFests whenever they're thrown. Not to mention the fact that all the same people who sit on the forums and cry about the game every day continue to be active subscribers, and by extension, players.

Remind me again why we're all still subscribed?

The fact you're still subscribed yourself makes your posts in this thread scream of hypocrisy.

Clearly the man was doing something right; and if you think he made all the decisions of every aspect of game play, then you're severely mistaken. Judging by how well written your posts are, I'm surprised that the content of them is as flatulent as it is. MMOs need teams and experimentation to get things right, and while I agree that FFXI (or any other MMO for that matter) don't always come up with the best ideas - to scream "zomg it's all tanaka's fault" is pretty short sighted.

[Nala]

As a counter point you cant tell me you noticed the day a night difference between Dev team response and willingness to work with the player base on the inception of these forums and the subsequent lack of both interaction (in part to staffing i will admit) and response to the players concerns (this i will not brush off however)

When these forums first started it felt (by no small margin due to dev team responsiveness) that our input was not only valued but taken to heart, but after a certain point (which i had discovered the return of a certain some one from XIV) that the dev team did a 180 (perhaps in part due to the "failure" of abyssea) in any case point is he had the final call on what should and should not be adjusted.

For an example at the beginning of these forums the rampant issues with RDM (that is their pure lack of job specific abilities traits and or spells) may have been addressed (and don't you dare call out gravity 2 or merit spells the damn job needs a sch esc overhaul), but as we all know even know that concern is a far cry from any Dev's care factor currently, considering its one of the few jobs that needs attention the most.

tl;dr Dev team used to listen, then something changed i'll let you figure out what, you can't deny that fact.

[Arcon]

As a counter point you cant tell me you noticed the day a night difference between Dev team response and willingness to work with the player base on the inception of these forums and the subsequent lack of both interaction (in part to staffing i will admit) and response to the players concerns (this i will not brush off however)

When these forums first started it felt (by no small margin due to dev team responsiveness) that our input was not only valued but taken to heart, but after a certain point (which i had discovered the return of a certain some one from XIV) that the dev team did a 180 (perhaps in part due to the "failure" of abyssea) in any case point is he had the final call on what should and should not be adjusted.

You're completely full of it. The forums weren't even made until several months after Tanaka left FFXIV. So you just basically admitted that was his doing that the dev team was listening to people in the beginning.


tl;dr Dev team used to listen, then something changed i'll let you figure out what, you can't deny that fact.

That's also your perception and is complete and utter bullshit. Throughout the existence of the forums, community interaction has not changed one bit, it's still as low as it ever was. RDM was never addressed, not now and not then. I don't know what you're talking about. When was that magical time that they showed any remote interest in RDM?

[Benihana]

if anyone thinks the endgame direction and vision is going to change with the departure of tanaka, you are going to be severely disappointed. I strongly suggest if this is your reason for coming back, prepare for a rage quit.

It wasn't TANAKA'S VISION, it is SQUARE ENIX's vision. They have a vision for endgame, and current direction it is going atm, is that direction or vision.

Tanaka was, 100% the producer and supporter of ABYSSEA. The statment issued by SE that stated "abyssea was a mistake" was NOT even a direct quote from TANAKA HIMSELF. It was ANOTHER MEMBER OF THE TEAM.(the CURRENT DIRECTOR, if im not mistaken. I could be wrong)

I was gonna post this on bg, but someone else hit the nail on the coffin: I cannot wait to see all you whining and blaming The new producer when he shells out content that is of the vision SE has always had for ffxi. That day is coming without a doubt, because if you honestly think Tanaka was calling the shots and that the current and past visions of the game were his and his alone, you are DELUSIONAL.


This is square enix's vision. And i assure you, all of you, the replacement for Tanaka is going to 100% continue to drive ffxi in the direction it has been going: Toward more LS or group orientated endgame content, with craptastic drop rates, luck gear/events and more grinds.

The new grinds might be fun, who knows. But SE not going to ever, ever, ever, ever make endgame abyssea level reward:difficulty ratio. A grind FFXI is the only ffxi ENDGAme you guys ever have,. Get over. Its a10 yr MMO and has always been this way. If you dont like it, quit.

Abyssea was never endgame, It was FILLER content designed to keep us busy and preparing for the return of an epic endgame. Tanaka OK'd it because he knew we would need great gear and weapons before they shell out new 99 endgame, and that's the reason abyssea was created. It was filler content, and they themselves stated, it was never intended to be endgame and the reward part of it was a MISTAKE, because it changed the mindset of the player base, and changing it back is going to take time. They are going to do everything they can to avoid abyssea level reward ratio in ffxi.

In short, There will never be abyssea-Endgame. Abyssea wasa filler content that was too rewarding to a playerbase that is otherwise very unspoiled. They are slowly trying to change the mindset of the players expectations and willingness, and trust me, theyre gonna keep trying.

The new producer isnt going to change anything in regards to the vision of ffxis endgame.

[saevel]

Considering Tanaka had no idea what he was doing - FFIX has done pretty well for its self being in its tenth year of service, with enough subscribers to warrant a new boxed expansion and thousands of people turning up to VanaFests whenever they're thrown. Not to mention the fact that all the same people who sit on the forums and cry about the game every day continue to be active subscribers, and by extension, players.

Remind me again why we're all still subscribed?

The fact you're still subscribed yourself makes your posts in this thread scream of hypocrisy.

Clearly the man was doing something right; and if you think he made all the decisions of every aspect of game play, then you're severely mistaken. Judging by how well written your posts are, I'm surprised that the content of them is as flatulent as it is. MMOs need teams and experimentation to get things right, and while I agree that FFXI (or any other MMO for that matter) don't always come up with the best ideas - to scream "zomg it's all tanaka's fault" is pretty short sighted.

You can attempt to blame shift all you want, ultimately he's directly responsible for the "nothing shall change" policy that set it post-abyssea. He as much as came out and stated it.

The reason we still subscribe is that while the games been severely damaged, there is still enough gameplay involved to warrant continuing it. Most importantly, I've got years upon years (since 2003) of effort put into my characters, starting over on a different game means starting from scratch, something that I no longer have time to do. For the record I also play DDO and have played WoW / DAOC / LoTR / ect.., I stuck with DDO and FFXI due to the effort I've put into both games.

The "no experience" excuse was fine for the first five years, then they created abyssea which was an amazing step forward in gameplay. Instead of learning what worked and didn't work they freaked out and decided to do everything in their power to send the game back into 2007~2008 era and halt all player progression.

[Benihana]

You can attempt to blame shift all you want, ultimately he's directly responsible for the "nothing shall change" policy that set it post-abyssea. He as much as came out and stated it.




You don't know what you are talking about, lol.

Get me the quote where he states, "NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE UNDER MY WATCH!".

How unintelligent of you to assume, his saying "Nothing will change" has anything to do with him personally and nothing to do with the team asa whole, let alone SE.

I know it must be nice that since he's gone, you seem so optimistic, telling yourself whatever you wanna believe.

Unfortunately for you, when the content for the next year comes around (you might be gone, idk) ill be sure to swiftly remind you that, it was never tanaka calling the shots in regards to the vision of ffxi. Thats a team effort, thats the companies baby. Tanaka was simply putting in his own input, giving his approval and checking with his superiors like any other producer.

All I got to say is, get ready for more grinds and low drop rates on the epic stuff. SE isn't going to change their vision for endgame, it's just now you have someone new to blame. lol...

Not trying to be cold here, I'm just sick of people blaming tanaka for what they didnt like, and not praising him for the things they did, like abyssea.. He was the producer of it..

Check credits people. Its listed publicly whos worked on what. Tanaka gave us alot of good stuff we all love. We got bad stuff too, but Tanaka shouldn't take the whole blame. ITS SQUARE ENIX, the teams vision.

And now that hes gone? Don't expect anything to change LOL. Nyzul? GOOD LUCK. HNMP? 1.5k sup
ADL? GOOD LUCK. VW? Fixed enough. ODIN V2? Start recruiting

FFXI endgame is GRIND, always has been, since day1, always will be. No matter whos producing. SE releases content in such a way that THE NEED THE BUFFER FROM HORRID DROP RATES, LONG SPAWNS OR COMPLICATED MECHANICS making it very luck based. Thats the way it is guys. Thios isn't new, It's just the slow return of the environment we had back at 75: you need a ls or group to get the best. You also need luck. Those are the factors for having the best in ffxi, and i truly dont think thats ever going to change.

[Habu]

The blame never solely rests with one person in a major company like this. How could anyone ever argue against that? I hope Tanaka recovers from whatever problems he is having.

[Behemothx]

The blame never solely rests with one person in a major company like this. How could anyone ever argue against that? I hope Tanaka recovers from whatever problems he is having.

Couldn't agree with this more.

Like I said in my FFXIAH post:

Seriously, some of you people should research how responsibilities are distributed in a game project before making all those negative comments. I have worked in a few games myself, MANY people take decisions, not just one person. Blame Hiromichi Tanaka all you want but the entire project team is to blame for what you hate or like, if you change the head of the team it's more than likely it won't change a thing.

On that note, I hope Tanaka-San will recover from his illness and enjoy his retirement

[Doctrine]

Abyssea was never endgame, It was FILLER content designed to keep us busy and preparing for the return of an epic endgame. Tanaka OK'd it because he knew we would need great gear and weapons before they shell out new 99 endgame, and that's the reason abyssea was created. It was filler content, and they themselves stated, it was never intended to be endgame and the reward part of it was a MISTAKE, because it changed the mindset of the player base, and changing it back is going to take time. They are going to do everything they can to avoid abyssea level reward ratio in ffxi.

In short, There will never be abyssea-Endgame. Abyssea wasa filler content that was too rewarding to a playerbase that is otherwise very unspoiled. They are slowly trying to change the mindset of the players expectations and willingness, and trust me, theyre gonna keep trying.
The new producer isnt going to change anything in regards to the vision of ffxis endgame.

in response ot the bolded: not gonna happen. they can try, and try, and try till the company is bankrupt, and it will never, ever change the masses minds.

we've had a taste of a fun, rewarding, and relativley grind free endgame, even if it was never meant to be endgame.
and ill wager that the community as a whole wants more.

the game is more accessible to the masses now that it has ever been, and no one, not even the games creators, will ever be able to undo that. no amount of money, tweaks, fixes, or expansions will reverse what abyssea did: making the game more accessible to the masses. even if the next xpac tries to reverse that trend set bet abyssea, it will not succeed. sure it may have its own draws and attractions, but far too many people enjoy the post-abyssea game. i guarantee that if the enxt xpac is more zilart, more CoP, more toau, more wings, people will stay away and content themselves with abyssea.

we've had a taste of the good life (in ffxi terms), pandoras box has been opened, and it can never be closed again.

[Nala]

Eh save for salvage i always thought ToAU was fairly rewarding, if it wern't for most gear added during 75 cap era were side grades that is.

[Nyerieri]

You can enjoy your Abyssea all you want to Arallielle, but some of us are still thirsting for the way FFXI used to be. I'll be heading west while you're in Abyssea.

[Tsuneo]

I think people might be exaggerating the impact that the producer has a little bit. I will admit that I have no idea what his duties were, but I seriously doubt he was the one "balancing" everything.

[JiltedValkyrie]

I hope you have a long life ahead of you Mr. Tanaka. Thanks for the memories!

[Enaula]

Thanks Tanaka for you great job since 2002 :)

[Jackstin]

I'd like to say Bye Bye Tanaka! Sorry to see ou go, you've made one hell of a game here. :D

[Benihana]

in response ot the bolded: not gonna happen. they can try, and try, and try till the company is bankrupt, and it will never, ever change the masses minds.



Sorry but, it kinda is happening.

Look at yourself for example. You're still playing, aren't you? What ENDGAME CONTENT isn't a grind? I assume you do endgame?


You either enjoy it, or hate it.

If you enjoy it, awesome. It worked!

If you don't enjoy it, IT STILL WORKED because you're still here, lol.

The masses are still playing ffxi, even while they throw really awful grinds at us. Now we have a new xpack coming, you think the grind is gonna stop? Lmao.

Abyssea is not coming to endgame, ever. As long as the masses keep playing, that's all that matters.

[Kluaf]

I lol at all the Tanaka LOVE since hes sick and gone... You wouldnt dare see a person write anything positive for him 4 days. But now all you see is admiration and almost worship to a man everyone would shit on 4 days ago lol its just like when michael jackson died hell we had country stations oldies stations playing a MJ song an hour and some stations were strictly MJ 24/7 for several days but youd been hard pressed to of found such things before his death. Hell they was people blasting MJ from their cars like it was the newest bestest songs out. I just dont understand why it always has to take a tragedy or death for people to express themselves if its not the status quo :((

Idk even know wth Tananka did that was so wrong myself all ive heard up to Japanafest was he ruined 11 and 14 ...

Neways hope gets well to many people work there asses off only to retire to a sub quality of life ...

[Arciel]

simple reasoning really..

some people didn't like him for his work, but have nothing against him as a person.

its all a matter of whether you know to draw the line between work and anything personal.

[Dazusu]

The funny part about this whole thread is people citing "Abyssea" as end-game. It was filler content until we hit 99. Now the real (grindy) shit hits. For those of you who thought there would be anything more, well, you're mistaken. For those who thought this wasn't planned in advance...

[Unaisis]

We may have had our ups and downs but..... /cry... I love you man ; ; <take care> Tanaka~~~

[Kitkat]

I've nothing personal against the guy, but the sway of content did progressively become more luck/random based after he returned as part of the staff. Certain issues never got addressed (rdm utility), other things were "re-balanced" in a way that is reminiscent of older "re-balancing" we've seen in the past (here have a stick of dynamite to play with (emp h2h/gaxe) now try to make do with this m80 instead). While they did adjust some of the difficulty in attaining gear of NI2.0, I'm still amazed at the fact they introduced legion like they did then made it less than worth the effort/difficulty in a small time limit. How getting gang raped by HNM's that require multiple waves be killed in 30min yet no "safe" area to rest in for weakened/low mp players due to roaming of mobs, AOE range, and aggro range is considered good content is beyond me.

I don't call this all one persons fault, but he did hold sway enough to say "No, this content is not yet ready. Adjust it in this manner and test it some more" instead of releasing it unfinished then having to go back and readjust it after release because the players have found significant flaws in the enjoyability of the content due to minor, but very visible issues.

So my problem isn't this whole "balance!" mentality...it's the fact that content seemed rushed out the door instead of going through proper QA before release, which oddly enough is the exact same thing that happened with 14. A game that shouldn't have gone live for at least another year and ended up flopping because someone was too afraid to say "no" before rushing it out the door. Had I been an investor I wouldn't have had an issue with this if the reason had been properly relayed as to a delay of release rather than see the aftermath of a bad product release. Not entirely his fault, no, but I highly doubt he had such a insignificant role that it couldn't have been avoided with proper information relay.

[Falseliberty]

Hes responsible for my awesome childhood and stands as one of the very best
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLK8IrYrZxA&feature=relmfu

This isn't about FFXI, Its about respect. Which people forgot about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAgti_2uziA

HAHA OLD PEOPLE!!!! THEY SOO OLD YA KNOW...

as for Tanaka... oldsolidsnakesalute.gif

[sc4500]

It nice square finally fired him, oops meant gave him a choice to get fired or retirement but old bones still smart enough to come up with the old health excuse. i once work for large company till went to china and these were the excuses that the upper te ups use to do to save public face.

Ill give him alot props for his direction on the story of the game , but the rest he was to proud of him self to listen to other people inside his organization. and what has he done in the last few yrs , messed up ff14 and also ff11 once he took over.

For those that have not notice just do a sea all on your world and notice now that he took over that a few the server or down to 1k to 2k on some there ready for new merger again , at abyssea peak was 4k to 5k on most the servers. the game been going down hill because his direction.

This biggest problem once done on abyssea or what not if were not in the rush to get void watch done your out of luck since no ones doing the lower tier ones. So time to quit, neo nyzul well see he brought the cheaters again.

instead of innovating something he just makes it a grind. Instead of using stuff that works on other mmos that you can improve on , he just make stuff time sinks to point that it becomes time to quit game, he need understand that people work and got lifes and other stuff to do. Healthy mmos need have a balance for hardcore and the casuals player and that why abyssea was so nice, but could have used some more improvement. instead wasting time on voidwatch stuff he should just made a new abyssea in wing of goddess area that was super hard.

[Dazusu]

For those that have not notice just do a sea all on your world and notice now that he took over that a few the server or down to 1k to 2k on some there ready for new merger again , at abyssea peak was 4k to 5k on most the servers. the game been going down hill because his direction.

I see you didn't do your research properly. Tanaka was in charge of FFXI while it was at its peak, and had its biggest number of subscribers. Incidentally, when he was moved off FFXI, player numbers slumped (and this started with Abyssea).

Thinking he makes every decision on 'balance' without hundreds of team meetings lots of testing / number crunching shows that you know nothing about the development cycle or large organizations. While the 'blame' will fall on his shoulders (as it publicly has) - he's certainly not solely responsible and to think he is.... well, it's just irrational.

The game went downhill because of 'Abyssea' and SE as much stated it when they told us "Abyssea was probably a mistake" in a public interview - still visible on Zam's website.

[Camiie]

I see you didn't do your research properly. Tanaka was in charge of FFXI while it was at its peak, and had its biggest number of subscribers. Incidentally, when he was moved off FFXI, player numbers slumped (and this started with Abyssea).

Subscription losses are generally a lagging indicator. If people were quitting around the heyday of Abyssea they were probably quitting for things related to pre-Abyssea. It's the post-Abyssea numbers you want.


Thinking he makes every decision on 'balance' without hundreds of team meetings lots of testing / number crunching shows that you know nothing about the development cycle or large organizations. While the 'blame' will fall on his shoulders (as it publicly has) - he's certainly not solely responsible and to think he is.... well, it's just irrational.


It's Japan. Anyone under him was more than likely going along with whatever he wanted. He's the boss and they generally have a strong respect for authority. I don't mean that to be offensive in any way. I'm not saying dissent is nonexistent in Japan or in SE's online division. I just think it's highly unlikely there was very much of it.


The game went downhill because of 'Abyssea' and SE as much stated it when they told us "Abyssea was probably a mistake" in a public interview - still visible on Zam's website.

"Mistake" is highly subjective. Developers are just as biased as anyone, and they certainly aren't infallible. To me, Abyssea is by far their best work and I'd gladly pay mucho dinero for more of it. In my mind the mistake is giving up on it too soon.

[Dazusu]

Subscription losses are generally a lagging indicator. If people were quitting around the heyday of Abyssea they were probably quitting for things related to pre-Abyssea. It's the post-Abyssea numbers you want.

Yes, people quit for problems over the previous 8 years just after Abyssea was released. Giving a massive slump in players over a 12 month period. That makes perfect sense. Or could it be that not everyone thinks Abyssea was the game-saver that you think it was?

I believe Subscriber numbers are even lower now than during Abyssea (or the same), so if your own argument is anything to go by - that doesn't look good for team-Abyssea.




It's Japan. Anyone under him was more than likely going along with whatever he wanted. He's the boss and they generally have a strong respect for authority. I don't mean that to be offensive in any way. I'm not saying dissent is nonexistent in Japan or in SE's online division. I just think it's highly unlikely there was very much of it.

Agreed to an extent, but I don't think he's arrogant enough to scream "BARANCE" at his team during every meeting about game development. He's been doing this long enough to know how it works.


To me, Abyssea is by far their best work and I'd gladly pay mucho dinero for more of it. In my mind the mistake is giving up on it too soon.

The joys of opinion. Abyssea seems to have very split opinion. I thought it was great, but in small doses. I wouldn't want any more of it though. Fortunately, the few details they did announce of SoA sounded good, specially the new battle/progress/zone systems.

[Camiie]

Yes, people quit for problems over the previous 8 years just after Abyssea was released. Giving a massive slump in players over a 12 month period. That makes perfect sense. Or could it be that not everyone thinks Abyssea was the game-saver that you think it was?

I believe Subscriber numbers are even lower now than during Abyssea, so if your own argument is anything to go by - that doesn't look good for team-Abyssea.


I didn't say it was a game saver, and I said look at the numbers because I wanted you to look at the numbers. Maybe a lot of people did drop because of Abyssea. If it's true it's true. I'd like to see the truth.


Agreed to an extent, but I don't think he's arrogant enough to scream "BARANCE" at his team during every meeting about game development. He's been doing this long enough to know how it works.

I doubt he screamed at all. I'm sure he was very polite in telling them how things were going to be done in his house.


The joys of opinion. Abyssea seems to have very split opinion. I thought it was great, but in small doses. I wouldn't want any more of it though. Fortunately, the few details they did announce of SoA sounded good, specially the new battle/progress/zone systems.

The best case would be if they had something like Abyssea along side stuff like VW or Legion or whatever it is hardcore people want. I'd be fine with that as long as I felt as though I had a comfortable path of progression.

[sc4500]

I see you didn't do your research properly. Tanaka was in charge of FFXI while it was at its peak, and had its biggest number of subscribers. Incidentally, when he was moved off FFXI, player numbers slumped (and this started with Abyssea).

Thinking he makes every decision on 'balance' without hundreds of team meetings lots of testing / number crunching shows that you know nothing about the development cycle or large organizations. While the 'blame' will fall on his shoulders (as it publicly has) - he's certainly not solely responsible and to think he is.... well, it's just irrational.

The game went downhill because of 'Abyssea' and SE as much stated it when they told us "Abyssea was probably a mistake" in a public interview - still visible on Zam's website.

I was on this game when he failed on COP and at the time on bismark server had only 234 low point amount people on the game and japanese time was 900 people peak this was avg, then when aht urhgan came out jump up to around 1100-2200 daily. then when xbox live version came on line went back to 3800avg since the ps2 people and pc got there friends come back to game and then the gil selling sites went through the roof inflated the populations , this all just from what i seen over the yrs, At his peak square was counting mules and all the websites that were out at the time creating accounts to sell gill to people then square started the banned hammers do legal reasons and tanka moved to ff14 at this time and when square had banned people it drop down to 1k to 200 avg on servers . then when abyssea was out it went back to pre COP 4000-5500 people mostly normal people. yea server were merged at this time abyssea.

square mistake was getting tanaka back he didn't see the future instead got stuck in his old ways and people below him listen and the people above him gave him to much respect that he did earn over the years.
Just look at void watch its a mess no new play can ever play it way it design now it take 2 yrs or some good friends hook them up to get access to the end and neo nyzul isle that a mess to. When he should have directed and made square more money and created a advance abyssea to sell us for 10$ so people didnt leave. alot people hate last 2 yrs content. It would kept more people still playing on there drop in and out play times. and then at same time work on the new add on disk.

As much as most people hate this casual people are ones that makes a mmos there money , hardcore are the only ones on the game forums. and casual and midcore players are the one that quit, and thats why a free to play mmo that done right can make more money in one year then a subscription base model in 10 years.

[Dazusu]

As much as most people hate this casual people are ones that makes a mmos there money, and thats why a free to play mmo that done right can make more money in one year then a subscription base model in 10 years.

Yes, most MMOs - but this MMO? No. Because this MMO was never designed as 'casual' from the start. So the majority of players (up until Abyssea) were not casual. Abyssea hits - the `hardcore` quit, and what's left is a dwindled population. Your theory might apply to new games, but this one that's 10 years old? Not so much.

Free to play making more than subscription in a decade? I'd have to see numbers to even contemplate believing that.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Yes, I consider most of the people playing this game as casual

That or a lot of people play the game and do nothing for extended periods of time

[Dazusu]

Read the posts properly. Now they are casual. Before Abyssea, No. Sorry, was I not clear enough the first time?

[Behemothx]

Anyone who had anything to do with Xenogears rocks in my book! :)

[Neisan_Quetz]

Read the posts properly. Now they are casual. Before Abyssea, No. Sorry, was I not clear enough the first time?

Even pre abyssea I would call a large amount of the playerbase fairly casual. That or you have a really broad definition of hardcore.

I mean, I thought it was fairly obvious when you consider the disproportionate amount of people back in the day that had say completed CoP versus number of subscrisers, for instance. Or you had to look no further than Kings/Groundspawns.

[Insaniac]

Agreed. Most people never even touched a king camp back in the mid-2000s. The "hardcore" players that did things like Tiamat and Kings made up maybe 2% of the population.

[Shotaro1]

inb4 a new abyssea zone in that large chunk of land in the SoA map they showed.

[Camate]

After receiving over 150 heart-felt posts thanking him for his hard work on FINAL FANTASY XI, Producer Hiromichi Tanaka took some time to write his thank you to all of the adventurers of Vana’diel.


Thank you all so much for the warm words. It was due to all of you that we were able to successfully put on VanaFest 2012 and I deeply appreciate all of you adventurers who have been supportive.

Despite my resignation announcement, the following day was the regular run of the mill busy day filled with preparations for the next version update and organizing data for succession and it all hasn’t really sunk in yet. I am sure that up until the last day of next month I will be working just as usual.

As for my illness which everyone has been so kindly concerned about, it is not something that is curable with modern medicine, but neither is it something that will worsen, so it’s an illness that I will have no choice but to deal with.

Finally, I would like to once again introduce my successor Akihiko Matsui and the rest of the development and operations staff who will be working hard together to develop the new expansion as well as the next version update.

Thank you all very much!

[Llana_Virren]

If do not mind me asking what is his illness?

This question would actually be considered extremely rude if you asked over here.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

As for my illness which everyone has been so kindly concerned about, it is not something that is curable with modern medicine(.)

His next project is seeking the Holy Grail.

[Jackstin]

This question would actually be considered extremely rude if you asked over here.

I think it would be considered rude everywhere o_O.

Best of wishes Tanaka. Thank you for 10 years.

[Kadian]

Good Luck Tanaka!! Thank You for all you do!! =)

[Zerich]

After receiving over 150 heart-felt posts thanking him for his hard work on FINAL FANTASY XI, Producer Hiromichi Tanaka took some time to write his thank you to all of the adventurers of Vana’diel.

i'm actually kinda sad now...:(

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Camte was there more of that post? That last paragraph is worded in such a way that makes it seem some was left out.

[Draylo]

Goodbye Tanaka

[Unaisis]

Awwww..... T_T now i feel bad for teasing him in the past ; ; Glad to know that his condition isnt going to get any worse.

[Kyte]

Thanks for all the good work you've done throughout your career. You have created games that have made millions smile, and will continue to be enjoyed for generations to come.

[Teraniku]

Thank you for all your hard work Tanaka-san. While I may not have agreed with everything you did with the game, it was clear to me that you cared about the game. Good Luck to you.

[Mirabelle]

I think it would be considered rude everywhere o_O.

Best of wishes Tanaka. Thank you for 10 years.

Really do people have a lot of problems telling others they have high blood pressure or diabetes? Unless we are talking mental illness and life threatening illnesses (or those involving the privates), it shouldn't be so terrible to talk about common human ailments.
I respect his privacy if he doesn't want to share, but I'm not sure it's overly rude to ask, if only to enhance our empathy. Of course if it turns out he is suffering from a wicked case of Athletes foot, that may backfire.

[Kitkat]

That is highly dependent on the social morals and practices you learn while growing up. Different cultures will see different things as offensive, rude, or disrespectful due to the communities, and era, they grew up in. Even though talking about health ailments might be common place for some cultures, it is considered selfish or disrespectful in others to speak of personal issues or ailments. In others it can be seen as a form of weakness to convey this type of information.

There shouldn't be a need to satisfy another cultures curiosity if the morals and social practices they have learned go against it. I believe it is a fairly big gesture just to state he has health problems at all to thousands of strangers, why can't it just be left at that and look back at what accomplishments he had during his time? While I don't idolize him, nor scapegoat him, for what he has done through his career I do believe he has earned the right to simply say "due to health issues I will be retiring," consider it good enough, and move on.

[Clou777]

would be totally ironic if the game achieves balance when he's gone

[Llana_Virren]

would be totally ironic if the game achieves balance when he's gone

Ironic? Remember, he helped lay the foundation, so in a sense, it could still be traced back to his framework for enabling true "balance" to be achieved.

Just saying.

[Scuro]

Tanaka, you made this the most difficult RPG game out there, and while it may have discouraged few, it encouraged the many that matter to this game and have become life time followers. Thank you.

[Powder]

Take care Tanaka. May you find some kind of comfort in this journey you are going on.

[Kraggy]

Tanaka gets so much UNDESERVED hate it's unbelievable.
Totally agree, it's disgusting how nasty and spiteful some people are round here.

[Kojo]

Tanaka worked on most of my favorite games, I'm not sure why everyone was so against him, though the "Balance" jokes I found kinda funny. I'm thankful for what he's done in his work on all the old FF games and I wish him well.

I'm sure by the time and page this is posted on this thread may be derailed, so.... I'm posting on the original topic.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Tanaka worked on most of my favorite games, I'm not sure why everyone was so against him, though the "Balance" jokes I found kinda funny. I'm thankful for what he's done in his work on all the old FF games and I wish him well.

I'm sure by the time and page this is posted on this thread may be derailed, so.... I'm posting on the original topic.

He's good in single-player games, he should, however, never be allowed near MMO's again.

That said: I wish him the best of luck with the rest of his life.

[Psxpert2011]

Tanaka san, has kept his RPG style roots true even in MMORPG, so this new generation don't really care for that. It's kinda like saying goodbye to a hero but welcoming (with opened arms) a Client Care-provider Technician (http://www.pcihealth.edu/education/patient_care_technician.htm) (nurse/evaluator).

I'm going to miss Tanaka san and hearing all the positive influence he has had in the RPG world. Rock on Mr. T, we the true hard-core, veteran RPG gamers will miss you!

[Xilk]

I would find some ironic humor and satisfaction if Tanaka san starts working for Mistwalker Studio

[Dragoy]

I would find some ironic humor and satisfaction if Tanaka san starts working for Mistwalker Studio

Well the Mistwalker Corporation already has at least one Tanaka there - the producer of the PlayOnline system no less!

[RagingAvatar]

I will be praying for Tanaka-san and his health.

[Alistaire]

He gets hatred as a developer, not as a person. It's totally fair to call Tanaka out on all the silly, poor, backwards and stubborn decisions that got him the ire of both NA/EU/JP players because so many of them could have been avoided had Tanaka stopped developing in his bunker and communicated with the base that would have been more than happy to nudge him in the right direction.

For all the mockery of balance and Tanaka himself most players would have liked the guy if he simply had been more vocal to the concerns of his customers. He may have been skilled at single-player games but it was clear that Tanaka was not the ideal choice for MMOs and he nearly killed two SE titles in the process.

You're right that time will tell if Tanaka was the sole reason this game suffered so much but as it stands:

Tanaka the developer = Bad.
Tanaka the person = Unknown.
Tanaka the ailing human being = Deserving of empathy.

Perfectly stated. Wish him the best, but glad he's not involved in ffxi anymore.

[Meyi]

田中さん、ありがとうございました。ｍ（＿　＿）ｍ

I'm excited to see how the future of FFXI will unfold with a new person in charge.

[Okipuit]

Good morning, everyone!

Producer Hiromichi Tanaka wished to express his gratitude to you, The FINAL FANTASY XI community:




http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/attachment.php?attachmentid=2515&d=1343201852

I received all these messages from everyone. Thank you all so much!
I’ve read through this entire thread, and I cannot give enough thanks to everyone.

It has come down to the final bit of time before I retire. I haven’t even begun to start cleaning up yet, but I am sure everything will be fine.

Thank you all very much and please continue supporting FINAL FANTASY XI.


Thank you for all the great memories and we wish you all the best, Tanaka-P!

[Dragoy]

Good evening here. :b

Either way, once more again: thank you, and fare thee well, Tanaka-sama.
Best of luck with your future endeavours ! !! !

おつかれさまでしたー
さらばだ！

[Nalien]

Totally agree, it's disgusting how nasty and spiteful some people are round here.

People are absolutely retarded.

Some morons started the Tanaka hate train when they became butthurt because they're incompetent morons who can't achieve anything both in and out of game.
Then the next wave of people just jumps onto what's currently popular in whatever community.

tl;dr most of the world's population can't think for themselves and tries to get attention by just following others.


Anyone who actually played the game long enough knows that Tanaka did great work and that the game is getting killed off by the constant whining and bitching of people who don't want to put effort into a game. Unfortunately SE is forced to go with the trends because there's been no proper marketing of the FFXI title leading to constantly decreasing numbers.
The challenges are being taken out, all of the new content turns into grind fests for mentally impaired people, etc.
Hopefully the new addon will bring FFXI back to its old glory.

Also: Why do people play games if everything is too hard anyway? Watch a movie if you can't enjoy a challenge and just want to see moving pictures. (Not even talking about the grinds > see CoP)




Best wishes to Tanaka who actually made the game worth playing back in the days.

[Dekar]

Though I don't agree with all of his decision, he still helped shape the game we've all come to love. Thank for your years of service, Tanaka-san. Best of luck to you in life! Also, awesome view in your office!

[Washburn]

I wonder if he'll start playing the game now and as a player (not producer) see some of the issues and be like "oh, yeah... i should have done this/that". Perspective changes things.

[Infidi]

Wow he looks a lot younger then I thought he was or is. I was thinking late 30s early fourties, but he looks like he just TURNED 30 lol. Maybe working with FFXI makes you young forever . :D

[Fusionx]

Good to see him appear so happy during his final days at Square Enix. Tanaka's Smile had a pretty low drop rate over the years =P

As much as people may say they don't like him, let's remember that without Tanaka-san we may not even have a Final Fantasy XI. Wish him the best in whatever he does next.

[saevel]

I haven’t even begun to start cleaning up yet, but I am sure everything will be fine.


Don't worry, they'll clean it all up just fine once you've vacated the office. May take them awhile to fix things, but it'll be done eventually.

[Eric]

Wow, this makes me kind of sad. Just to think how long it's been.

[Kraggy]

Don't worry, they'll clean it all up just fine once you've vacated the office. May take them awhile to fix things, but it'll be done eventually.
People like you make me sick.

[Meyi]

D:... To be honest, I wasn't expecting him to respond to us. That's kind of touching... And he looks adorable when he smiles. :( He should have smiled more often in his business photos. Or is that a cultural thing? Okipuit, please let him know that we would like him to come play with us sometime! As an adventurer.

[Lollerblades]

Good luck take care o/

[RagingAvatar]

Community team, is there any method by which we can write to Square-Enix and our thank you notes etc. be passed on to Tanaka-san?

[Karbuncle]

People are absolutely retarded.

Some morons started the Tanaka hate train when they became butthurt because they're incompetent morons who can't achieve anything both in and out of game.
Then the next wave of people just jumps onto what's currently popular in whatever community.

I agree with the goodbye Tanaka and good luck to him and best wishes.

But by saying these sentences, You are being a hypocrite. declaring people retarded/Butthurt/etc for bashing on Tanaka is pretty much Banishing those people for the same reasons you're bashing them. Its not really productive. We all know/Think the same thing you said, But its hypocritical at best, and we shouldn't those people anger us!

I did my fair share of Tanaka bashing, But it was always... Mostly... sarcasm, Never hated the guy, He gave me some of the best FF Games i've played, I liked it... and its true, He's been in charge from the games introduction, and while he missed a lot, he got a lot right. Its a balance of good and bad, And it wasn't all too terrible.

Anyway, Rambling off, Don't get angry and call those people names, it just makes you look bad :(!

(P.S If it didn't come across clear. I agree with your reasoning for thinking the way you do, But the rage directed at those people are exhibiting the same emotions and reasons you are there bashing them for :X)

[Nalien]

Don't get me wrong, I am far from raging and I am perfectly calm when writing this.

To me this is just a rational look at clear facts which simply has not been expressed in a "political way" if you wish to say so.

Plus I fail to see the hypocrisy as I've never ridden mentioned train and I am most certainly not butthurt about anyone doing anything that I don't agree with. So in short: It's far from the same as I'm being rational about things while the people riding certain trains on the web are simply retarded.

[Camiie]

You know, folks, it's OK to feel sympathy for his health problems and still believe he made serious mistakes and poor decisions as producer of FFXI. Having something bad happen doesn't wipe the slate clean.

Do the comments go too far at times? Yeah, but some people are really just trying to be funny and/or venting years of frustration. Tanaka is a big boy and he knows full well that criticism is something you face being in a creative field.

[Zerich]

You know, folks, it's OK to feel sympathy for his health problems and still believe he made serious mistakes and poor decisions as producer of FFXI. Having something bad happen doesn't wipe the slate clean.

However, there is something called tact.

[Camiie]

However, there is something called tact.

Understood, and I certainly don't wish pain or death upon him. I do think FFXI will be better off without his involvement though. Some people are acting as if it's not ok to criticize his work at all now that he's sick. I don't think that's fair either.

[Zerich]

Understood, and I certainly don't wish pain or death upon him. I do think FFXI will be better off without his involvement though. Some people are acting as if it's not ok to criticize his work at all now that he's sick. I don't think that's fair either.

It's perfectly ok to criticize, even under the circumstances. Just do it in another thread.

[Ronin]

He has proven to be very capable at making single player console RPGs, and completely inadequate at making MMORPGs. He treated FFXI and FFXIV as just another single player console RPG, but with many players, and look what it did to both of those games.

He managed to make two of the best story based MMO's in existence. No other MMO has yet to even get close to blending MMO with epic storytelling like FFXI has.

FFXI has my favorite story out of all the FF games too.

[Dragoy]

Have to say that he does look a lot more healthy than during the Vana'Fest stream!

Could be due to the lighting I guess... in any case, I don't see why people need to bring their ill manners here. Whether or not one likes what he has or has not done, doesn't need to be heard (or read) here, methinks. :]

There's no denying he did lots of good, and should be granted the most well-mannered farewells.


Done.

[Aeonk]

Whether or not the blame for some bad decisions rests with him or his team, it's safe to say they put in a massive amount of work into trying to make FFXI the best it can be.

Take care Tanaka.

[Camiie]

It's perfectly ok to criticize, even under the circumstances. Just do it in another thread.

I don't think you get to decide that. Also the title is "BYE TANAKA!" That could be taken more than one way.

[Tunasushi]

U BUTTHURT MAD CASUALS, aren't gonna be saved with or wothout him.

The direction of the game and anything related to endgame is going to require dedication, team work and luck.

Neo Salvage and Dungeon crawling will cemet this standard in place.

If they add someone that doeswnt require team work, lil luck and dedication, the gear will not exceed that of Prov watcher/VW, let alone NI.

The days of getting the best gear via ABYSSEA level ease are dead, and gone. Forever.

This is endgame, with or woithout tanaka.

I look forward to seeing who you guys blame next, haha!

bye tanaka and thx for aspidochelone^^

[RagingAvatar]

Posting this again as the thread got derailed - play nice people!

Community team, is there any method by which we can write to Square-Enix and our thank you notes etc. be passed on to Tanaka-san?

[FrankReynolds]

U BUTTHURT MAD CASUALS, aren't gonna be saved with or wothout him.

The direction of the game and anything related to endgame is going to require dedication, team work and luck.

Neo Salvage and Dungeon crawling will cemet this standard in place.

If they add someone that doeswnt require team work, lil luck and dedication, the gear will not exceed that of Prov watcher/VW, let alone NI.

The days of getting the best gear via ABYSSEA level ease are dead, and gone. Forever.

This is endgame, with or woithout tanaka.

I look forward to seeing who you guys blame next, haha!

bye tanaka and thx for aspidochelone^^

I blame you. I hope Tanaka spends the first several years of his retirement going down a list of people who posted stupid stuff like what you just wrote, finding them, and slapping the snot out of them for bashing on his fans.

PS. finish leveling your whm, you "casual".


I wouldn't be surprised to see Tanaka working for another gaming company and / or doing some writing over the next few years. He could probably write some awesome stuff still.

[Behemothx]

Holy necrobump batman... on that note is it too soon to rehire him again? ;)

[Anjou]

Tanaka....p-please...come home...we miss you

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Tanaka....p-please...come home...we miss you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn-enjcgV1o

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVLfzYkM6Lo

[Genoxd]

Please yes. I want him back so bad. So so bad.

[Damane]

Tanaka....p-please...come home...we miss you

no please no

[nyheen]

no please no
once he left things became broken because of no balance

[casual]

Sad to say that I'd actually take Tanaka style FFXI back in a heart beat at this point. The model we're currently heading towards simply doesn't work with the skeleton crew we have updating FFXI.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Have we seriously reached the "drunk dialing" phase, at long last?

[Demon6324236]

Tanaka had a shitty sense of balance too, just in different ways. Neither this nor how it was before is really how this game should be, nothing should take stupid amounts of time like Mythics, or be as annoying as some of the luck based events which were implemented by him such as NNI or VW. He did better in some respects, but that doesn't mean we should go back to it, we should get something better than both.

[Omegablue]

Tanaka had a shitty sense of balance too, just in different ways. Neither this nor how it was before is really how this game should be, nothing should take stupid amounts of time like Mythics, or be as annoying as some of the luck based events which were implemented by him such as NNI or VW. He did better in some respects, but that doesn't mean we should go back to it, we should get something better than both.


And that's the right perspective to take. Luck based sucked hard. VW NNI were and are terrible events. The jobs were really out of balance. Now the jobs are even more out of balance. The content, even just exploring the new zones is a drag. Instead of building an expansion around 99 they built it around Delve and ilvl119.

We've lost the intangible spirit that made FFXI FFXI somewhere between VW and now.

[nyheen]

Tanaka had a shitty sense of balance too, just in different ways. Neither this nor how it was before is really how this game should be, nothing should take stupid amounts of time like Mythics, or be as annoying as some of the luck based events which were implemented by him such as NNI or VW. He did better in some respects, but that doesn't mean we should go back to it, we should get something better than both.

sure some of his things was annoying but it kept people playing way longer. now it just a ghost town because everyone got bored with the only 2 easy events and cap out on almost everything, feels like we really just beat the game. they just pretty much throwing easy to get over power gear without even trying much.:(

[Spectreman]

I hope Tanaka never leads any other team for gaming purposes.

[Sparthos]

Things may be going to shit but if you want Tanaka back on the job, you're drinking something awfully strong.

[predatory]

Don't worry, they'll clean it all up just fine once you've vacated the office. May take them awhile to fix things, but it'll be done eventually.

Nope, you were wrong, as a matter of fact they just about destroyed the game

[Demon6324236]

They were cleaning it up till SoA happened. Before SoA things were fine, actually, cut out everything SoA related, or simply balance it, and the game would be doing fine. They made some of the other events like Salvage or Meebles better, they made fun side events like Monstrosity, they added inventory, broke some gear limitations, I mean, had SoA not had the horrible gear it does and changed the game's design, I think the game would be doing better now than when that post was made. The problem was, SoA changed everything, and made it crash.

[FrankReynolds]

iLevel for the loss...

[saevel]

They were cleaning it up till SoA happened. Before SoA things were fine, actually, cut out everything SoA related, or simply balance it, and the game would be doing fine. They made some of the other events like Salvage or Meebles better, they made fun side events like Monstrosity, they added inventory, broke some gear limitations, I mean, had SoA not had the horrible gear it does and changed the game's design, I think the game would be doing better now than when that post was made. The problem was, SoA changed everything, and made it crash.

SoA is several different sections so gotta separate them out. Skirmish sucks, it's just a voidwatch 2.0 loot system. Reives are hit / miss depending on the time of day and where your at. Lots of missions and quests to do that actually provide rewards. Delve loot system is amazing, the point buy + upgrade is definitely one of the best idea's SE every created.

What most of you are crying about is the iLevel system that rendered your RME's worthless. Your poured a ton of your free time into making what you thought would be the ultimate gear for your jobs only to have that investment wiped out and someone who didn't put near that much effort jumping ahead of you. That's what most of this hate is really about, not SoA but the obsolescence of RME's and the player reordering it caused. Mechanically the game is more balanced now then it was three years ago, and definitely more balanced then two years ago. The biggest problem is that MNK is a little overpowered due to SE's chosen battle mechanics (high physical / magical damage along with high HP and survivability). Second biggest problem is the delve MB's are essentially stun or die due to overpowered offensive moves, that's par for the course for SE though.

Otherwise I can't see any actual balance issues present in the game that weren't already present long before SoA. Hell SoA actually brought back jobs that had previously been near extinct, RDM and RNG are actually useful.

[Demon6324236]

That's what I mean though, besides the gear SoA brought with it, everything has gotten better, but the fact it brought that gear and the item levels makes it seem like its gotten worse. Remove that one simple change and you have a better FFXI than when you made your original post, but outdating nearly everything in the game with the expansion was the change that soured the whole thing.

[Spectreman]

SoA is several different sections so gotta separate them out. Skirmish sucks, it's just a voidwatch 2.0 loot system. Reives are hit / miss depending on the time of day and where your at. Lots of missions and quests to do that actually provide rewards. Delve loot system is amazing, the point buy + upgrade is definitely one of the best idea's SE every created.

What most of you are crying about is the iLevel system that rendered your RME's worthless. Your poured a ton of your free time into making what you thought would be the ultimate gear for your jobs only to have that investment wiped out and someone who didn't put near that much effort jumping ahead of you. That's what most of this hate is really about, not SoA but the obsolescence of RME's and the player reordering it caused. Mechanically the game is more balanced now then it was three years ago, and definitely more balanced then two years ago. The biggest problem is that MNK is a little overpowered due to SE's chosen battle mechanics (high physical / magical damage along with high HP and survivability). Second biggest problem is the delve MB's are essentially stun or die due to overpowered offensive moves, that's par for the course for SE though.

Otherwise I can't see any actual balance issues present in the game that weren't already present long before SoA. Hell SoA actually brought back jobs that had previously been near extinct, RDM and RNG are actually useful.

Couldn't agree more, i'm sick of these R/M/E ppl crying. Nobody forced them to waste their lives doing that and they demand to have that old content to be always the top gear of the game.

[Demon6324236]

If you spent 6 months of your life on a project only to have it taken away from you or rendered worthless, I am sure you would be 'crying' about it as well. Most people who made RMEs expected them to be around, especially after being upgraded 24 levels past their original forms in the case of R/Ms. Relics were the top weapons from the time they were introduced till Abyssea, they were then upgraded to keep up with weapons of the time, and were some of the best at 99, there was little reason for that to change when it worked, and especially when it was a goal many people still strived for. Now that is gone, and we see what good short term goals have brought us. I am not saying Relics held the game together, but they were a long term goal, and those goals are what did help hold it together, now, we do everything fast, get done, and have nothing to do, in my opinion.

[predatory]

I don't have either a relic or a mythic, but I would sure love an Annihilator for my Rng, and the now totally unreachable Burtgang for my PLD, but before I go jumping through the hoops of building any R/M/E, I want to see what happens in November with regards to the R/M/E fixes.

Those of you that think Relics should just remain relics from the past, you are so wrong. When someone spends that much time and hard work on any single project, ingame or irl, there reward should be a lasting one. R/M/Es were real accomplishments that spanned a period of years in some cases, and should not have been so carelessly tossed aside by game developers in the first place. Took me a total of 6 hours from KI to fully upgraded Speleogen bow, and it's kind of shameful that it's so OP over the relic

[Spectreman]

If you spent 6 months of your life on a project only to have it taken away from you or rendered worthless, I am sure you would be 'crying' about it as well. Most people who made RMEs expected them to be around, especially after being upgraded 24 levels past their original forms in the case of R/Ms. Relics were the top weapons from the time they were introduced till Abyssea, they were then upgraded to keep up with weapons of the time, and were some of the best at 99, there was little reason for that to change when it worked, and especially when it was a goal many people still strived for. Now that is gone, and we see what good short term goals have brought us. I am not saying Relics held the game together, but they were a long term goal, and those goals are what did help hold it together, now, we do everything fast, get done, and have nothing to do, in my opinion.



If the project of you life is in a game then perhaps SE was doing you a favor for making it worthless so you could rethink your life. But you won't do it. Like i said, nobody forced you to waste 5 months of your life for that.

It is pretty stupid to ask for an online game that should always be changing and evolving to be stagnant forever in terms of the most important item in a RPG, the weapon. But, of course, for people that puts their life projects into a game, that really must hurt.

No more checks to your naked character in town must really affect your ego.

[Camiie]

Couldn't agree more, i'm sick of these R/M/E ppl crying. Nobody forced them to waste their lives doing that and they demand to have that old content to be always the top gear of the game.

In their defense I'll say that in many cases if you didn't have an R/M/E there were no truly universally acceptable alternatives. You'd either be using a severely underpowered weapon with no aftermath or you'd be missing a game-breaking WS. It was essentially bring an R/M/E or don't come at all.

The real mistake SE made was making Empys just easy enough to make that the higher-end of the player base expected everyone to be able to get one in short order. They also made the alternatives either too weak or too hard/expensive to make in comparison.

They then repeated this mistake with delve weapons. They were too easy to get for the high-end players and too hard to get for those on the low-end.

[vienne]

Couldn't agree more, i'm sick of these R/M/E ppl crying. Nobody forced them to waste their lives doing that and they demand to have that old content to be always the top gear of the game.

I'm sick of the people crying about the people who are "crying", i'm also sick of the reference that people who care about their gear dont have lives, and you obviously have, although i dont know you. Its just an assumption and irrelevant.

[Demon6324236]

If the project of you life is in a game then perhaps SE was doing you a favor for making it worthless so you could rethink your life. But you won't do it. Like i said, nobody forced you to waste 5 months of your life for that.Did I say this was my lifes work? No, it was my ingame lifes work. I have a life and GF outside of this game which obviously rank much higher in priority than my Excalibur ever did. Just because it is only an ingame item or the fact I have a life outside of it does not make the fact it was outdated in the way it was any better. I spent about 6 months of doing Dynamis 3~4 times a week and spending any gil I made from Blinkers or VW on it. For what reason is it that my project I made in my spare time should be tossed aside in such a way?


It is pretty stupid to ask for an online game that should always be changing and evolving to be stagnant forever in terms of the most important item in a RPG, the weapon. But, of course, for people that puts their life projects into a game, that really must hurt.Its equally stupid to allow a weapon that takes months to build to fall to the side in the wake of other gear which takes significantly less time, even though the developers do not change the requirements to obtain it. By your incredibly condescending tone in this argument one can only assume you have no RME, and that it drives your misguided view on the subject.

Keeping them the strongest weapons made them a reward for a large amount of effort people put in, a reward people could count on to be the top and be worth the effort, it worked. It also kept long term goals in the game which were always worth the effort, how many others held that kind of weight? I could go out and get anything else in the game, but I would know it has a high likelihood of being outdated, which could drive me away from it. But with the past of RMEs, I would have no reason to think that, I could take on the long term goal knowing I will have a reward at the end which stays with me forever.


No more checks to your naked character in town must really affect your ego.If you really think I spent 6 months making my Excalibur so I could get checks or compliments, your incompetent.

I made Excalibur primarily for 2 reasons.

1. I have always been a RDM who melees and it is my main, as such, the first Relic and the first Empyrean I ever made were swords. I knew many people on Phoenix who did things like VW and because they knew I was a good RDM, they let me come, and I actually did good enough DMG on everything up to T4 that I was a viable DD. Excalibur only boosted that DD power more.

2. I wanted Excalibur as a sign of my determination on RDM to improve, and my dedication to that job rather than others. Many people now days question if anyone even really has a main job anymore, my way of showing my RDM was and is my main job was getting the best sword in the game for it. My PLD has no Aegis/Ochain, my BLU can not use Excalibur, I made it for RDM unquestionably, and proudly said that it was for RDM.



I did not make my Excalibur so I could afk and have others look at me in awe. I made it for other reasons, if you don't approve of them, oh well. All of this doesn't give you the right to act like you know me or anyone else who does when your talking about us all as though we are all the same jackass who just wants to flaunt their fortune or has no life and plays nothing but this.

Perhaps, if I was a person with 15 RMEs sitting in my inventory, and I constantly bragged about how my opinion mattered more than yours because I had them, you could say that, and it might be true. But that isn't the case, I own 2 RMEs, I probably will only ever own 3, and that's if I stay long enough to finish my RDM Mythic I am working on right now, my 3rd and final weapon.

[saevel]

Ok this is an MMORPG not a console RPG, so expecting any accomplishment to mean something long term is both ignorant and stupid.

That being said, Tanaka did create a patter of constant side-grades while leaving the ultimate weapons, well ultimate. The entire player base came to expect that as par for the course and when new leadership changed that, well you have the hate. Your anger isn't that they changed it (expecting no change in an online RPG is stupid), it's that SE had you expecting one thing while doing another. Thing is, we've gone through this exact set of issues before, during Abyssea. When SE released the crour sets and the +2 armor it obsoleted a lot of old gear. Futher then emp weapons beat out many of the previous super weapons (anyone remember Hagun) including relics. There were riots as relic holders moaned that Empy's were too easy and too powerful, it made many relics obsolete (not that many where that powerful to begin with).

Anyhow be glad Tanaka is gone, otherwise Delve would be 6,000 plasm for beating all six NM's with weapons costing 500,000 plasm. Or better yet individual randomized loot from each MB kill with only one slot for an item and the rest being logs and ores. Change is needed for MMO's to continue, especially in a game like FFXI where you can gear / level all jobs on one character.

[Demon6324236]

Except it wasn't needed in the case of weapons, the game did just fine with RMEs being on top at all times, we had plenty of gear to use which we constantly went out and got to improve our characters, but RMEs were still the top, and there were never issues. Expecting things never change is stupid, and like I said before, its equally stupid to have things that take months to build yet are not even half as strong as other weapons in the game. Relics & Mythics lived for a long time at 75 till, 90 came along, and RMEs as a whole lived from Abyssea till the day before SoA hit, there was no reason to expect that to change. FFXI is not every MMO, it was different, the fact they are moving to change it to be like every other game is bad, not good, and it was yes, unexpected.

[Twille]

As long as it doesn't turn things into "REM" only, I don't care what they do.

[Anjou]

If the project of you life is in a game then perhaps SE was doing you a favor for making it worthless so you could rethink your life. But you won't do it. Like i said, nobody forced you to waste 5 months of your life for that.

It is pretty stupid to ask for an online game that should always be changing and evolving to be stagnant forever in terms of the most important item in a RPG, the weapon. But, of course, for people that puts their life projects into a game, that really must hurt.

No more checks to your naked character in town must really affect your ego.

The problem with your way of thinking Spectre, is that you're too hurtful in what you say. Why would anyone on God's green earth would ever take -you- seriously? You only make yourself seem more and more ignorant by saying people have no lives, aren't you playing the same game? But oh wait that's right, you haven't tried committing to anything so you won't know what it's like to have an accomplishment stomped into dust right in front of your eyes. These people took time, effort, and gil to make their weapons, and whether it was for e-peen or to just do the challenge, that's what gaming is all about. It's to give you a sense of accomplishment, it's the reason we as a whole collective of players continue to play this game. If it wasn't a challenge (A grindy challenge, but a challenge nonetheless) then you know what'd happen?




FFXI will die. What will you do with yourself then?

[saevel]

As long as it doesn't turn things into "REM" only, I don't care what they do.

That's the thing. The only way to make these people happy is to make REM the absolute best which in turn makes them required by groups looking for members. The MB's in this game are ridiculously hard, stat wise, compared to most other MMO's. Other games compensate for that by creating battlefield mechanics, things moving or some form of dynamic interaction required to beat the Big Bad Evil. FFXI lacks that so instead just jacks the BBE's stats up so high that the players require near best gear to have any chance of getting the near best gear. It becomes a catch 22, you can't fight Tojil on MNK unless you have Oatixers, ect. You see this mentality with DD's more then anything because of how accuracy works in this game. The formula is so linear that either your smacking the NM around easily or your whiffing, very little room for the middle anymore.

[saevel]

Except it wasn't needed in the case of weapons, the game did just fine with RMEs being on top at all times, we had plenty of gear to use which we constantly went out and got to improve our characters, but RMEs were still the top, and there were never issues.

Is in direct contradiction to


Expecting things never change is stupid, and like I said before, its equally stupid to have things that take months to build yet are not even half as strong as other weapons in the game.

That's cognitive dissonance for you.

Now we can all agree that the requirements for RME's were entirely too high anyway. I'm a firm believer that no piece of gear, in any game, should require that much time to be used. This is because in order for a MMO to continue it needs to grow and locking that much time into a single piece that, by definition, must eventually be outclassed is stupid. Further players requiring that other players have something that requires that level of time is equally stupid. In essence RME's should never have existed in the form they did. SE is currently trying to remedy that design flaw by introducing easily acquirable alternatives. Of course they didn't fully understand the community's emotional attachment to the digital product of their wasted hours. RME's will be outdated, it's an eventuality and it must happen.

[Byrth]

What makes Saeval posts similar to Beethoven's 5th? Highlight for answer: They both have a lot of dums!


It's not impossible to make RMEs near-equivalent to the present "best weapons" under optimal buff conditions. SE has access to the damage equations and server logs that could be analyzed to tell them player reaction times, typical TP overages, etc. They have all the information that they need to make the damage output of different weapons mathematically identical for the average player. Perhaps which weapon players should use will vary based on their skill level, but RMEs could be left as a valid option for everyone under the right conditions.


It is also not impossible to make a more complicated state of play where other high-end, current gear is required to make RMEs usable. Shouting for RMEs in this situation would be futile and RME holders could not avoid new content because that would make their RME useless. Doing something like adding base weapon damage to armor would fulfill this condition. Any time RMEs too far ahead with an ideal set (say 5% better than the common alternative), SE could just release a new common alternative and match them.




Considering the huge blowback that SE got regarding RMEs and the ensuing erosion of the FFXI community, I think they'd have to be pretty dumb to continue down the vertical progression path. I'm not saying they're smarter than that, but it's very obviously not the right choice for FFXI.

[Spectreman]

Ok this is an MMORPG not a console RPG, so expecting any accomplishment to mean something long term is both ignorant and stupid.

That being said, Tanaka did create a patter of constant side-grades while leaving the ultimate weapons, well ultimate. The entire player base came to expect that as par for the course and when new leadership changed that, well you have the hate. Your anger isn't that they changed it (expecting no change in an online RPG is stupid), it's that SE had you expecting one thing while doing another. Thing is, we've gone through this exact set of issues before, during Abyssea. When SE released the crour sets and the +2 armor it obsoleted a lot of old gear. Futher then emp weapons beat out many of the previous super weapons (anyone remember Hagun) including relics. There were riots as relic holders moaned that Empy's were too easy and too powerful, it made many relics obsolete (not that many where that powerful to begin with).

Anyhow be glad Tanaka is gone, otherwise Delve would be 6,000 plasm for beating all six NM's with weapons costing 500,000 plasm. Or better yet individual randomized loot from each MB kill with only one slot for an item and the rest being logs and ores. Change is needed for MMO's to continue, especially in a game like FFXI where you can gear / level all jobs on one character.



This x 10000. I understand these guys effort and tears but honestly, you can't ask in a MMORPG for an item to be always the best in slot. That's just ridiculous.

[Anjou]

This x 10000. I understand these guys effort and tears but honestly, you can't ask in a MMORPG for an item to be always the best in slot. That's just ridiculous.

How is it ridiculous if there's upgrades to it? A lot of old technology irl is upgraded to be able to be compared to the new technology we have today. For instance they could have just used a completely different design, but the F-35 uses the main look of the F-22, but slightly upgraded.

The fact is: Upgrades aren't hurting anyone, why are you so dedicated to your stance that these kinds of things should just be tossed? It's Excalibur, one of the most famous swords in folklore and especially FF, it and its other relic weapons deserve to be on that podium, otherwise they do not deserve their titles.

[FaeQueenCory]

How is it ridiculous if there's upgrades to it? A lot of old technology irl is upgraded to be able to be compared to the new technology we have today. For instance they could have just used a completely different design, but the F-35 uses the main look of the F-22, but slightly upgraded.

The fact is: Upgrades aren't hurting anyone, why are you so dedicated to your stance that these kinds of things should just be tossed? It's Excalibur, one of the most famous swords in folklore and especially FF, it and its other relic weapons deserve to be on that podium, otherwise they do not deserve their titles.
I propose that the divisor might be something as simple as having.

For those that didn't have a REM before Adoulin, there was a long road ahead of them.
This is actually really good for the game because it means there is something for them to do.
But this also is a deterrent for some who just don't want to do THAT much work. (which is why ppl don't make mythics... cause... dear GOD... all that Alexandrite....)

But then Adoulin hit and it gave them a much easier and smaller goal.

And I, who has no REMs, appreciate that... however, I am firmly on the REM camp.
The upcoming update will make Mythics equal to Delve Mega Boss drops (so 119ish) and Relics and Empys equal to the 113 delve and skirmish+1 weapons.

And I think that's great. Because having things be like this means that everyone is on equal footing.
A mythic has always been more prized than an empy or relic because they usually give you more.... but they also take FOREVER to make... so there's always going to be fewer players who have them.
But with the proposed update, Mythic and Delve Mega Boss weapons will be roughly equal.
Meaning all the ppl who didn't want to spend a year making a mythic won't be shut down (which is what I get from everyone who is against the REM update... they all seem to be afraid of loosing their spotlight...) because they have an Oats/Koh/whatever and those are comparable to the Mythics.

If there's one open spot and it's a mnk slot and you have two mnks who want in, one with an Oats and one with a rank15... who gets in and who gets told "i'm sorry"....

The Oats monk.

Always.

BUT after the update... More ppl will be considered for those free spots... though it will always be an Oats or Mythic mnk being favored over a r15DRES... But how is that any different than an Oats mnk now being favored over a rank15D/skirmish+1 mnk now?

It's not.

It's the same thing.

Making REMs back to being the top is one of the best choices made.
And making Mythics the top of the top with the Mega Boss drops is also superb.
It will allow more people to play together on equal footing.
And in ANY MMO.... that is always a good thing.

[saevel]

And I, who has no REMs, appreciate that... however, I am firmly on the REM camp.
The upcoming update will make Mythics equal to Delve Mega Boss drops (so 119ish) and Relics and Empys equal to the 113 delve and skirmish+1 weapons.


Did I miss something, when did SE state that Mythic would be iLevel 119 and R/E iLevel 113 (fairly useless BTW).

Also for those still attached to their RME's, I'm merely stating the obvious. The game is not shrinking over RME's, not remotely. It's shrinking because SE isn't attracting new players while older players leave due to RL time shortages and other, more competitive MMO products being available. MMO's are a service market not unlike entertainment TV series, they are not a single product production market like other games. They need to attract customers then keep those customers by providing the service the customers are seeking, in this case entertainment. They're first and foremost focus should be the entertainment value provided by the product, also known as content. If RME's were left as "the absolute best" then there would be no carrot to actually do SoA content. That being said, they should not of obsoleted them so fast. iLevel 117~119 gear shouldn't of been introduced so soon, it should of been something that came out later on with an option to *upgrade* current REM's.

Guys REM's can not be the best forever for melee's. At some point in time they must be left behind. Next expansion or after the next content release (CL 21+) you will go through this all over again. And I say this after spending a stupid amount of time making a 99 Rag, Bravura and Almace. I really don't want to see my Almace get trashed but I understand that it must eventually be eclipsed in order for the game to progress. Vertical progression is a requirement for MMO's to succeed.

[Demon6324236]

Also for those still attached to their RME's, I'm merely stating the obvious. The game is not shrinking over RME's, not remotely. It's shrinking because SE isn't attracting new players while older players leave due to RL time shortages and other, more competitive MMO products being available.You say this, while at the same time, I know quite a few people who I played with, as well as many people I have seen on various forums, all of which said their reason for quitting was the fact that RMEs had been outdated in the way they were. You can say its not the cause or reason the game is shrinking, but even if its not the entire reason, I can 100% assure you, it didn't help make anyone want to stay, I am sure it alone was not the only cause for most, but it was easily a big factor for most of those I know. The fact of the matter is, when you put weapons into a game which act like a project you have to pour a ton of work into like these are, if people make a large number of them, then you outdate them without a way of making them truly worth it still, people are gonna get pissed. That, is simply what happened here, may not be the only reason, but surly didn't make anyone want to stay more cause of it really.

[predatory]

It wasn't just the fact that the RME's were outdated, but that the new stuff was far easier to upgrade, if it needed upgrading at all. My Spelegeon bow took 6 hours from the time I got the KI off Nerrivik, and 3 airlixers +2 to complete, and it far outshines the RME bows that took people far longer to build, and if that wasn't a big enough slap in the face, how about the highest damage dealing bow in the game coming from a synth, and a pretty common one at that? So why wouldn't someone with an RME be pissed off and quit after all the time, effort, and gil they wasted on their weapons?

[predatory]

My input to the OP goes something like this

Goodbye and fond farewell to you Hiromichi Tanaka, I thank you for the wonderful game you brought me that I enjoyed for so many years. I loved the original areas, I loved Rise of the Zilart, and Chains of Promathia, and all the amazing content,
equipment, and new jobs those expansions brought brought with them, I loved Treasures of Aht Urghan, and Wings of the Goddess, and the jobs, equipment, content, and new types of battlefields these two epic expansions brought with them, and I loved the add-on scenarios you added in 2009, followed by the Abyssea battlefields in 2010.

Looking back at your illustrious time while producing FFXI the only mistake I saw that you made was not upgrading the content you had made pre-abyssea before you retired, but then how could you have known that your successor was going to erase all your hard work in such a short time?

As far as I'm concerned you will be sorely missed

[Mefuki]

Post #163

Indeed, I and 2 friends of mine stopped playing as a direct result of the REM fiasco. The only thing that brought me back was Monstrosity (which is really awesome and getting better all the time. Effort based progress, who'd have thought, eh?)

See, after all the work we were putting into our ultimate weapons (I was 1024/1500 HMP and 10 Riftcinders for Almace, someone else working on gathering currency for Excalibur, etc) when those Delve weapons came out we just kind of said to ourselves, "So, what do we do now...?". We lost our motivation to do anything because we kept thinking, "What's the point if next update it's not going to matter." Granted, the others had more reasons why they quit but this was a huge contributor.

[Psxpert2011]

/inbeforelock


Holy necrobump batman... on that note is it too soon to rehire him again? ;)

You gain an ACHIEVEMENT: NECROPOSTER (ta-daa)

This is a year old thread and full of irrelevant post. Shut it down!

[Behemothx]

/inbeforelock



You gain an ACHIEVEMENT: NECROPOSTER (ta-daa)

This is a year old thread and full of irrelevant post. Shut it down!

I suppose I should've created a new thread, right? ;)

[predatory]

I suppose I should've created a new thread, right? ;)

Nope you put it in just the right place, I keep bumping it too

[Dazusu]

The game is not shrinking over RME's, not remotely. It's shrinking because SE isn't attracting new players while older players leave due to RL time shortages and other, more competitive MMO products being available.

SE have not been trying to attract new players for about half a decade, after a certain point in an MMO's life "retention" becomes more important than attracting new players to an archaic system. The biggest problem with this game, and this has been said again and again, is lack of fresh content coming in at a consistent and acceptable rate.

In its simplest form: We get new decent end-game (even casual end-game) content once every 6-9 months; the problem is people on forums like this complaining/petitioning for it to be made easier or more accessible or more immediately rewarding. People cap out on said content within 3 months; then we have a gap of 6 months while we wait for the next iteration; and during those 6 months we stand in town bored, or cry on the forums about how people are quitting and there's nothing to do.

For those of you struggling to keep up: We complete content much quicker than SE add content.

We all know this to be true, yet each time new content is released, within a week we have people asking for it to be nerfed or become more rewarding immediately (with less effort or grind)... knowing full well that nothing else new is coming for at least 6 months. Each time this happens, a chunk of people quit -- and most of the time, they don't come back. The majority will hold on until the next iteration, but each time this happens, the people willing to wait reduces.

I've not played since August, do we have more than 3 Delve bosses yet? I'm going to guess no. So glad I didn't stick around to kill Tojil for the 4,734th time.

As much as we like to complain that we don't want "Relic grinds" or "Mythics grinds" - the truth is that there would be nothing to do in the game if these things were trivialised; because its not like SoA content is going to keep you busy for long... is it?

[Vold]

The game is not shrinking over RME's, not remotely. It's shrinking because SE isn't attracting new players while older players leave due to RL time shortages and other, more competitive MMO products being available.
Just getting in my 2 cents before this thread bites it.

I'm not sure what "more competitive MMO products being available" means. Let's take a trip through memory lane. When did FFXI's pop start to seriously decline? I imagine it was around the time just after ToAU release. Some people left because the game turned into zerg for exp groups and jobs started getting left out making it nigh impossible to level up without a ton of invested wait time until someone only took you as a last resort. Not such a bad hit to pop but it left a small dent.

THEN, SE started to dismantle their FFXI dev crew to slap people on other projects because of the "disappointing" subscriber performance of FFXI, which anyone who has been around long enough and did just slight research would know that while it's not a known fact straight from their mouths, it's pretty much the truth with how quickly they started work on concepts of FFXIV not 2 years after XI release.

THEN, the ever increasingly smaller FFXI team released WotG. It was a copy/paste job most of the way and took them three years to finish the main story missions, otherwise known as "we finished two years ago but we're stretching it all out because we ain't got shit for you after it's done" There goes alot of subscribers. It became obvious where the game was headed and people decided to bail out of boredom. If I recall we were down 150,000 players by this time through my best guesstimates.

THEN, we got the three- whatever.

THEN, FFXIV was about to be released. DOOM WAS COMING! Thousands quit FFXI in preparation for FFXIV: The Second Coming. Then the rest of us caught wind of it sucking. Minimal losses in the end BECAUSE of....

THEN, FFXI got a level cap raise and Abyssea as a possible last hurrah at same time as 14 release. Plan backfired as everyone stuck around and SE was suddenly like oh shit we shouldn't have done this. As time passed many got pissed and quit, and even quit before ever touching the new era of FFXI. We took big losses. Pop down to half of what it once was. Not because of age but because of content and direction decisions, and an overall lack of content due to smaller dev crews working on the game. SE was giving up on the game and so was the players as a result.

THEN, Tanaka was fi.. Tanaka left. Everyone was like omg finally FFXI will see the light now.

THEN, finally, Adoulin makes it's long awaited arrival. 6 long years of no expansions and finally... due to directional decisions for end game content and that content being repetitive, and with FFXIV ARR having been released which is enjoying at the least short term success, FFXI took massive blows to it's population. Servers that averaged 2000 to 3000 during prime time and 1200-1500 during off peak hours suddenly have 6-800 on during prime time and 4-500 during off peak hours. Bazaar spots are ghost towns. Trillions of NPC lives have been lost due to the lack of adventurers to protect them.

Long story short: Age typically gets blamed as always for a MMO's downfall. But it that really the case for FFXI? Perhaps it's not the fault of age. Perhaps it's SE's fault. I said it 8 years ago. I said it a lot since. And I'll say it again today. Nothing can kill this game off except for SE. And pushing away your most loyal paying customers is how you do it. And how do you manage to do that? By choosing to go the route they did since 2005 up to today with adoulin and not having a clue in the world what it means for a player to wield relics and mythics. Apparently the latest dev crew figures obtaining this stuff is nothing special and that 100 million + gil does grow on trees and not a chore whatsoever to make. And those people are just the minority. What hurt them so much was the casual players with their emps. Oh you doing this to me after allllllll that work I did for my 90 emp? Well screw you, I quit. I ain't going through the trouble of replacing my gear every 3 months. What is this? WoW? I quit!

See what I mean?

They took a gamble to make FFXI into a more friendly solo experience and a more friendly casual gamer experience. And it was an okay idea, and frankly the right idea after Abyssea as people who stuck around wanted a new, more forgiving direction like Abyssea. But they started fiddling with a new system of end game and totally messing up it's implementation, too. You can slap AGE tag on this game if you so desire, but it's obvious why it has taken such a huge hit on gamer support. FFXIV ARR merely finished the unfinished deed, and even though I have recently said that I believe people will return once they quickly get bored in ARR, I do understand there's a chance they give up for good here once they realize there isn't much point in returning to a system of gameplay they don't particularly enjoy anymore because they had been doing it for 5-10 years. Right now, for many, all they got to entice them to play FFXI anymore is 'the good ole days' it's like your virtual home and where you feel the most comfortable at. That can only last for so long.

[FrankReynolds]

SE have not been trying to attract new players for about half a decade, after a certain point in an MMO's life "retention" becomes more important than attracting new players to an archaic system. The biggest problem with this game, and this has been said again and again, is lack of fresh content coming in at a consistent and acceptable rate.

In its simplest form: We get new decent end-game (even casual end-game) content once every 6-9 months; the problem is people on forums like this complaining/petitioning for it to be made easier or more accessible or more immediately rewarding. People cap out on said content within 3 months; then we have a gap of 6 months while we wait for the next iteration; and during those 6 months we stand in town bored, or cry on the forums about how people are quitting and there's nothing to do.

For those of you struggling to keep up: We complete content much quicker than SE add content.

We all know this to be true, yet each time new content is released, within a week we have people asking for it to be nerfed or become more rewarding immediately (with less effort or grind)... knowing full well that nothing else new is coming for at least 6 months. Each time this happens, a chunk of people quit -- and most of the time, they don't come back. The majority will hold on until the next iteration, but each time this happens, the people willing to wait reduces.

I've not played since August, do we have more than 3 Delve bosses yet? I'm going to guess no. So glad I didn't stick around to kill Tojil for the 4,734th time.

As much as we like to complain that we don't want "Relic grinds" or "Mythics grinds" - the truth is that there would be nothing to do in the game if these things were trivialised; because its not like SoA content is going to keep you busy for long... is it?

So TLDR version: SE doesn't put out enough content.

[MeohmymeandI]

F*CK YEAH!!!

When are we throwing the wheels up party?

Saevel go buy some more gil and stop using speed scripts. Emomost emo conformative noob ever!

[Arkitan]

Figures he would retire after he ruined the game! O.o Health reasons is just an alternate excuse!