[Dev] PS2 and the new expansion

[Natenn]

I only have a PS2 to play FFXI, is there no possible way for PS2 users outside of Japan to access the new expansion comming in 2013? I have no choice but to get a pc or im lrft out? Really hope to get an official response.

[Mirage]

What are you typing this post on?

[Monchat]

obious troll is obvious.

[Nakts]

It would be nice to have an official word on this since I know a few ps2 players.

[Sayomi]

Get an xbox its just like ps2 but with slightly better picture and .. well thats about it lol

[wish12oz]

Dear SE, can you please drop PS2 and xbox support? Now would be a great time to commit to not updating those systems anymore!

[Natenn]

Im on someone elses laptop i dont have 1 myself, just PS3 web browser

[RAIST]

Don't need a souped up PC to play FFXI....you can get one for around the same price as a PS2, if not less. Took me all of 30 seconds to find this deal online:

http://3btech.net/hpcodcsmfofa2.html

[Camiie]

Dear SE, can you please drop PS2 and xbox support? Now would be a great time to commit to not updating those systems anymore!

To what end? They're not going to overhaul the PC client to do away with all the "PS2 Limitations."

[cidbahamut]

Im on someone elses laptop i dont have 1 myself, just PS3 web browser

It is the 21st century. Get with the times.

[Zerich]

To what end? They're not going to overhaul the PC client to do away with all the "PS2 Limitations."

maybe we'll get a working auto- auto-translate...btw, that was one of the ps2 limitations.

[oliveira]

maybe we'll get a working auto- auto-translate...btw, that was one of the ps2 limitations.

Funny enough, the auto translate "ps2 limitations" issue concern only Japanese players, because for US PS2 players the auto translate feature is not programmable, meaning the auto-translate terms are hard coded on the game ...

Programmable ? Yes, on the Japanese PS2 POL there's a download page where players download the dictionaries for updating the auto translate. And there's a limit of "256" blocks in it. The most up to date FFXI set uses 97 blocks out of the 256 blocks. If you unload the PlayOnline specific terms you free 113 blocks of the dictionary. Since there's no longer Tetra Master neither the PS2 exclusive Mah Jongg game you can ditch their dictionaries too, leaving you with 159 blocks of memory for text. Remember that on the english version you don't even get the option to choose the dictionaries so ...

There's plenty of space for them to fix the auto translate now.

[Natenn]

Just looking for a reply from a dev, its a simple question -_-

[Llana_Virren]

Just looking for a reply from a dev, its a simple question -_-

The expansion pack is 12 months away from release, and not even complete yet. Might be waiting a while for any real answer.

[Camiie]

Just looking for a reply from a dev, its a simple question -_-

It's Sunday, I doubt you get a response until business hours.

[Nala]

Get an xbox its just like ps2 but with slightly better picture and .. well thats about it lol

Hmm havent played on ps2 in ages but isnt xbox version more crashy? then again from what i understand they are both pretty crashy these days.

[Gilraen]

I like how everyone early in the thread was calling this a troll thread in spite of the original post's very valid concerns. I, too, would like a real response to this oversight. I play on the P2 verson (on a 1st gen PS3) as well and don't want to have to get the PC version just to play one expansion.

[Zerich]

I like how everyone early in the thread was calling this a troll thread in spite of the original post's very valid concerns. I, too, would like a real response to this oversight. I play on the P2 verson (on a 1st gen PS3) as well and don't want to have to get the PC version just to play one expansion.

if you can't afford a shitty computer or laptop (or even have one) then you might have more important things to do than worry about PS2 support. that's what they're trying to convey.

[JouriStarz]

I am sure they will allow PS2 players to buy the codes online and download the content like the add-ons. There is no other reason for them to have been adding the new zones in the game except maybe for test server purposes. In all honesty though only a handful of people in the US still use the ps2 so you can't expect them to manufacture actual discs if they aren't gonna be sold.

[RAIST]

The problem is that the PS2 is simply extremely dated hardware, using extremely dated software/firmware. Eventually it simply becomes too much trouble with the legacy code to be worth supporting it anymore compared to the more efficient way of supporting it on newer platforms. If they are to keep this game alive and well for the future, they may very well one day have to scrap some of that problematic code and do some recompiling to keep it stable on the newer platforms. We've already begun to see problem with Win7 and video card driver support issues. There are some older i486 based games (written in the Win3.x and Win95 era) that throw up on themselves when you try to run them on today's systems. The same can potentially happen with the legacy coding/emulation going on with FFXI---eventually, it just isn't worth it to try to support that older code in newer environments, and some of it simply has to go.

Many companies don't want to incure the added expense of continuing to support platforms no longer viable in the marketplace. Sure, you may manage to still run the older version on the newer hardware/OS, or still have an older machine it runs fine on--but if you have problems, they won't help you fix them under their support agreements. Typically, they would rather spend the resources to put out updated versions geared for the more mainstream environments--often with some bonus features to encourage consumers to purchase the newer versions. We saw a lot of this happen fairly recently with older games (Re-releases of PC series games like Myst and Hasbro classics like Monopoly, older PS2 games getting HD revamps on the PS3, etc.) We may very well be reaching that point where attrition needs to take place and everyone sluffs off the 12 year old software/hardware and moves to some more updated code/machines. This 5th expansion could very well be just that, an opportunity for SE to get people to move away from PS2 environments onto more robust platforms so they can continue to advance development of the franchise. Vanadiel still has what, 4 or 5 other continents on it's map we have yet to explore?

[wish12oz]

To what end? They're not going to overhaul the PC client to do away with all the "PS2 Limitations."

The main reason I want ps2 and xbox dropped is because then SE wouldnt have to employ programmers to make sure the game works on ps2 and xbox, and those programmers could work on something else (like new content) If this expansion sucks and takes something dumb like 3 years for them to get out, like wotg did, I'm gonna be pissed. Though with Tanaka gone, there's lots of optimism for the future of FFXI.

[Nala]

Seriously that pc RAIST listed earlier in the thread its 79 dollars, most of you have to own a pc anyways to post in this thread, best thing about that PC it can run ffxi perfectly at max settings or at ps2 level graphics if you are really so damn attached, throw in a game pad you have no difference in how the game functions all you have done so far is thrown out half assed excuses as to why you can or cannot play on a PC.

Worse case go get an xbox its probably still cheaper then if you'd have to replace your ps2 or ps3 with HHD considering they no longer manufacture the original ps2 compatible with HHD or the HHD's themselves you people are being ridiculously ABSURD.

Like Wish said, if they droped ps2/xbox support altogether though, they'd have a few more programmers available to deal with content vice localization and bug fixing, rather they'd only have to worry about PC bugs at that point not to mention various restrictions (should they be willing to unravel the spaghetti code) they could lift on the game (if they were willing to give it a face lift)

[oliveira]

Haha I think it's easier they take any programmers that would be freed from XI and move onto any team for other console based projects. And you believe the fairy tale that the programmers who work on FFXI work full time on it ?

A example is their sound programmer Minoru Akao, which wrote sound programs for everything they sell since Super NES era well through PS2 era. So, really it's naive of the players believe that dropping anything will make them direct people into making contents.

Anyway, the message was sent already, they now know their money is best invested on keeping this title afloat hence the expansion announcement.

[Zumi]

We already know that SE will be supporting the JP version on PS2 so that's a given, so they are going to have to have programmers for it regardless if they support it in the US with a new download or whatever.

The community team is probably coming back from Japan now so there is really now way they could give an answer on the subject here on the weekend.

[Sayomi]

ppl still mad that ps2+provoke at HNM camps usually were the claimers lol

Edit: Thats all I used my ps2 for!

[Tsuneo]

Though with Tanaka gone, there's lots of optimism for the future of FFXI.
I'll try to be nice as I can even though I really don't care for you. Your optimism is understandable, but remember that we know nothing about the new producer. Matsui has no real history to base an opinion of the future of the game off of. On top of knowing very little about Matsui, the extent of the producer's control over the game isn't something that is actually known to community. Unless we know how FFXI's hierarchy works, that possibility of nothing changing despite Tanaka being gone remains.

[krazykaz]

Funny enough, the auto translate "ps2 limitations" issue concern only Japanese players, because for US PS2 players the auto translate feature is not programmable, meaning the auto-translate terms are hard coded on the game ...

Programmable ? Yes, on the Japanese PS2 POL there's a download page where players download the dictionaries for updating the auto translate. And there's a limit of "256" blocks in it. The most up to date FFXI set uses 97 blocks out of the 256 blocks. If you unload the PlayOnline specific terms you free 113 blocks of the dictionary. Since there's no longer Tetra Master neither the PS2 exclusive Mah Jongg game you can ditch their dictionaries too, leaving you with 159 blocks of memory for text. Remember that on the english version you don't even get the option to choose the dictionaries so ...

There's plenty of space for them to fix the auto translate now.


actually the downloadable dictionaries are to add ffxi/pol words to the dictionary of the pc itself so you can easily use the kanji related to ffxi like redmage black mage etc... without it the pc when typing say warrior (senshi) it will try to use the kanji for KIA instead lol

til i found that out i always thought calling war KIA was some sorta joke>.>

[RagingAvatar]

Personally, I'm still hoping for US PS2 support for the new expansion, either as a download through POL or as a disc I can buy through mail order. (But for goodness sake Square-Enix, realise, a lot of people imported PS2s to play the game on a console back in the day. Don't just ship the disc to USA and Canada..)

[Tsuneo]

Also, for those wishing for consoles being dropped, have you ever considered the consequences of that? Sure that could free up some of the staff working with the consoles;however, the other scenario is the game takes a profit hit from losing a decent amount of players from stopping support for consoles. Now, let's assume a profit hit was large enough to the point that the current budget is no longer realistic. A scenario like that would surely cause a cut back on resources, and that definitely wouldn't be the desired effect of the people who are asking for FFXI to be a PC exclusive. Basically, the game is profitable for SE, and it would be a risk to do something like drop support for consoles. Why would a sane person risk their cash cow?

[Arciel]

I would like a response on this as well. The fact that PS2 is listed for the Japanese version and not NA/EU shows that it's not a uniform drop across all 3 regions.

I'd understand their reasoning behind it (because there are ton more PS2 users playing XI in Japan and PS2 HDD still receives some kind of support there), but I would still like an official announcement on discontinuing PS2 support for NA/EU if that is the case instead of the lack of any additional information at this point.

Another thing I'd like to know is what their action plan is. There will no doubt be some NA/EU PS2 players displaced by this change and left out of Seekers of Adoulin.
Will there be some kind of alternative implemented? or a direct download solution for the remaining PS2 users? This is what I'd like to know.

(n.b. i have FFXI on my ps3 but i don't play it unless i want to play in nostalgia mode.. still i think it affects enough players to be an issue that requires a formal statement of sorts)

edit: i am hoping that this foreshadows an imminent FFXI HD on PS3/PSVita release not unlike FFX, which will at least gives some ps2 users an alternative console to go to. i do think a number of "PS2" players are actually on PS3 already.

[Gingerhurricane]

There aren't enough ps2 players anymore, I being one of them from 2004-2008 when macbooks came with intel processors and able to load windows, and the rest is history. If 1/10 or even 1/20 players left on our servers on the NA side were just ps2 players, it is not cost effective to release a game into a market where it is limited supply of users.

Not everyone buys the expansion right away, as seen by people hunting online for xbox 360 wotg, which cost them more money than it was back then or some crap. Technically you borrow or buy a used version to install, then buy the pc version. Regardless, the expansion is not coming out until 2013. Even if it was released January 1st, you'd still have 6 months to save and buy up something that can run this game, whether its a 360 or a pc.

If my laptop breaks within the next year by chance, i will just buy a mac mini for 579 cause i need the mac side for my business and use the windows side for my gaming. For something like that, you could even possibly play 14 with all the crazy requirements that has for that pricepoint. Just saying you're best bet is to save for a laptop and do not get your hopes up. I have an intel duo core 2.0 ghz. i guarantee those sell for like $300-400 these days. and it runs the game at full settings.

So goodluck, most of you already know the "answer" to this question, some people just don't wanna believe it.

[wish12oz]

I'll try to be nice as I can even though I really don't care for you. Your optimism is understandable, but remember that we know nothing about the new producer. Matsui has no real history to base an opinion of the future of the game off of. On top of knowing very little about Matsui, the extent of the producer's control over the game isn't something that is actually known to community. Unless we know how FFXI's hierarchy works, that possibility of nothing changing despite Tanaka being gone remains.

If you keep being a negitive nancy everyone is going to start calling you negitive nancy, negitive nancy.

[oliveira]

actually the downloadable dictionaries are to add ffxi/pol words to the dictionary of the pc itself so you can easily use the kanji related to ffxi like redmage black mage etc... without it the pc when typing say warrior (senshi) it will try to use the kanji for KIA instead lol

til i found that out i always thought calling war KIA was some sorta joke>.>

Dude I am talking about the PS2, not the PC. On the PC you go to PLAYONLINE website download the files and install them on the Microsoft IME (Input Method Editor) dictionaries database. And for PC there never been a 256 blocks limit, either... Windows does not even measure the dictionary size in blocks ...


Edit:

Oh and there's no such thing as EU PS2 FFXI players. The HDD was never released on PAL regions due to SCEE being strongly against it.

[ellehym]

i initially started playing ffxi on the ps2 back when it was released in NA, since then i have a copy of the game on ps2, 360, and pc. you can build a crappy computer for 100 dollars or less, although i'm pretty sure everyone who plays ffxi these days has a computer capable of running the game so i don't know why we have people here trying to suggest if SE drops ps2 support they wouldn't be capable of playing the game.

[Tsuneo]

I'm a PC player, and I can say it how it is. There's just nothing to be gained from dropping PS2. Whether people can move to another platform is irrelevant.

[Spiritreaver]

FinalFantasy.de: There is no version of Final Fantasy XI for the PS3. Are there any plans to develop one? In Europe, there are no HDDs available for the PS2.

A: At the moment, there are no plans to develop a PS3 version. They already have the PS2 game, and they plan to continue supporting the PS2. They don't feel it would be the best use of resources to work on the PS3. Unfortunately, Square Enix is not a hardware manufacturer. They would love to release a HDD, but there is nothing they can do.


Link to whole interview with SE and several community sites compiled by Elmer the Pointy (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=29967&storypage=2)


Taking into account the whole partition upgrade and FFXI folder-size increase, even if no disc is released for PS2s outside of Japan, i think its safe to say that there will be a digital download available at the very least when SoA arrives. And who's to say that a NA PS2 version won't be present on the PC game package?

This whole conversation reminds me eerily of the whole "Dancer will be a female only job" debate that rose up before WotG went live. Ppl then were saying that since there was no male depiction of the job present, SE didn't plan on letting male characters lvl the job. Ridiculous as it seems now, there were ppl that truly seemed to believe it.

Could development for FFXI be easier if the game was windows compatible only, of course. Only a complete idiot would say otherwise. But it is equally idiotic to assume that dropping PS2 support(which it has been said to death, yet ppl refuse to grasp, can't be done w/o some real work that isn't gonna happen) will suddenly make all software developing issues with XI magically disappear.

I write all of this from one of many PCs in my home that i have FFXI loaded on. Not forgetting my PS3 and my orginal brick PS2 that is STILL running like a workhorse. I like being able to play from w/e i happen to have setup shop in my house at the time.

Personally i am just flabbergasted at some of you ppl(not just on this forum either, on others and ingame) dictating how a person should access this game. Every single one of us knew this was a multiplatform game when we signed up. All of us. And as such, the game as a whole is going to have to at some points bow to the 'bottom end' in terms of what it can do.

Now that the devs are making graphical updates and other changes under the hood for the systems capable of enjoying them, really who gives a damn what system the next guy is on? Its childish and petty. By all means, continue going on about how the "PS2 is at fault for <insert gripe>" 'til you are blue in the face, however. That's your right-this has just been my 2 cents.

[RAIST]

Think you're missing a bit of the bigger picture on the PS2 support issue. Eventually, the console WILL die out. Sony is only commited to continued production through FY2015, after that it's future is uncertain. The point is, at SOME POINT the PS2's market share for this game may naturally just drop off--whether from consumer demand, or lack of availability of the console due to stopped production. PC's and MAC's will be around for a considerably longer time--and even though the Windows environment is continually evolving, it is still Windows and Microsoft still cranks out the tools for porting software to it's newer API's, so there will ALWAYS be a path for migration in that environment (unless Microsoft topples over...highly unlikely).

Knowing of this pending obsolescence for the PS2, the sooner they can start preparing a migration path off the dated platform and into a Windows centered environment, the better. Remember, PS2 is 12 years old...hard to find a high percentage of home users still running ME/W2K, and the XB360 is a Microsoft product and does incorporate some Windows components into it's development and such. It would greatly benefit them for future survival of the franchise to take steps as soon as possible to encourage users to migrate away from the PS2 so that when it does finally slope off the radar, they can have a smooth transition.

New content and feature adjustments that are limited release only to the non-PS2 platforms is just the start of this process. As time goes on, we may very well see more such changes taking place. And let's face it...it's not like it's expensive to get a copy of the game for the PC. They've routinely released collections as far back as 2005 with the Vana'Diel Collection (I nabbed one of those ROTZ/CoP Gold box editions back then for like $30). They've consistently released new all-inclusive versions of the game each year for the past 4 years, the last few of which were sold as DLC packages for $20USD, $10USD periodically on sale....wouldn't surprise me at all if they released another collection in 2014 that had everything for it.

Their desire to maintain PS2 support has a stranglehold on progressing beyond certain limitations in development. So long as that support must be maintained in the core code, certain much needed/wanted changes will be restricted. We have no choice....SE has no choice....they HAVE to keep those limits in place BECAUSE of the existance of the PS2 on the support list. It likely just isn't deemed cost effective at this point to run a seperate develpment cycle that is purely PC/XB360 compliant....yet. But...what happens when there is no longer a NEED for that legacy PS2 support to be maintained? Then SE will have the freedom to move past those limites IF (and that may very well be a BIG IF) they are willing to make the core changes at that point in time. Until that PS2 is removed from the equation, their can be no progress in those matters unless SE is willing to break off and start a seperate development schema for the non-PS2 platforms. At this point, it likely is not seen as financially sound to do so.

So in summation, SE needs to start planning for the eventual loss of the PS2's marketshare for the game. Whether they will plan to take steps to dramatically capitalize on the benefits of running it strictly on non-PS2 platforms is a great unknown---but one thing we can be fairly certain of (unless Sony changes it's mind) is that eventually, the PS2 WILL fall out of the picture IF this game is still in further development past 2015. IF it is still going strong at that point, people may very well push doubly as hard for SE to move past the PS2 restrictions at that point, as it will obviously no longer be a viable excuse to maintain legacy support for a platform no longer in production and no longer supported by it's manufacturer. SE would be wise to prepare in advance for that eventuality.

[Camiie]

Knowing of this pending obsolescence for the PS2, the sooner they can start preparing a migration path off the dated platform and into a Windows centered environment, the better.

In their mind, that migration is FFXIV. They've already said, granted in relation to a possible FFVII remake, that it's better to just make a new game than try to rebuild an old one. Yeah they royally screwed XIV up, but for those wanting a modern FF MMO that's the only answer you're going to get out of them.

[oliveira]

In their mind, that migration is FFXIV.

Was, I suppose. Now that they had a change of mind, instead of trashing FFXI they decided to resume working in it... ;)

+1 to you Cams

[Gilraen]

No, XIV is still their idea of the next great MMO given how much work they're still pointing into it. XI's still around because if it's raw staying power and loyal fanbase in Japan. Playing XIV myself I have to say that it stands to gain just as much staying power with it's still unrivaled writing and decent game mechanics (now that they're no longer kowtowing to the old director).

[Tsuneo]

I like XIV, but I don't know if it can ever be great after its launch. It can definitely be moderately successful, but I doubt it will reach greatness after that launch.

[oliveira]

No, XIV is still their idea of the next great MMO given how much work they're still pointing into it. XI's still around because if it's raw staying power and loyal fanbase in Japan. Playing XIV myself I have to say that it stands to gain just as much staying power with it's still unrivaled writing and decent game mechanics (now that they're no longer kowtowing to the old director).


When I said "was" I referenced how they intended to scrap FFXI and force everyone on going to FFXIV. Now they know if they scrap XI, they will even finish killing XIV and putting to waste all time and money they put on both games, not to mention both SquareSoft and Enix legacy.

[Gingerhurricane]

The migration has to happen naturally from 11 to 14. Someone has to go out and buy the pc version or play the ps3, and when they are bored of 11 will be play 14 and vice versa. Without a successful launch that i believe is the only option of where 14 will get most of their players. A decent influx of people wanting a mmo and only having a ps3 will give it a shot when it comes around, and people who play on pc will follow friends over. Otherwise, you have another couple of years of content from 14 if they release the expansion and don't give everyone everything in one shot. CoP was done well in my opinion of gradually working itself up to sea, with limbus being tossed in as a side event for those who had access. People screwed around in miseraux coast and lufaise for a long time before they were able to get further, then people camped and did events in riverne, ect... It will be well worth the wait if they put the time an effort into any expansion they put out minus WoTG but even then, that expansion opened doors to a way of solo leveling not seen before. especially blm since the melee burns.

[Laraul]

I only have a PS2 to play FFXI, is there no possible way for PS2 users outside of Japan to access the new expansion comming in 2013? I have no choice but to get a pc or im lrft out? Really hope to get an official response.

If they are supporting the Japanese PS2 platform, i would assume the NA version would also be supported. There aren't many Japanese players still using the PS2 client. Possibly the same percentage of NA players still using the PS2. If it's not going to be supported outside Japan, then that client probably best avoided regardless which region you play in.

[Laraul]

The problem is that the PS2 is simply extremely dated hardware, using extremely dated software/firmware. Eventually it simply becomes too much trouble with the legacy code to be worth supporting it anymore compared to the more efficient way of supporting it on newer platforms. If they are to keep this game alive and well for the future, they may very well one day have to scrap some of that problematic code and do some recompiling to keep it stable on the newer platforms. We've already begun to see problem with Win7 and video card driver support issues. There are some older i486 based games (written in the Win3.x and Win95 era) that throw up on themselves when you try to run them on today's systems. The same can potentially happen with the legacy coding/emulation going on with FFXI---eventually, it just isn't worth it to try to support that older code in newer environments, and some of it simply has to go.

But today's PCs are completely compatible with Windows 3.1 and earlier. Intel CPUs now support 64bit and have twice the number of registers but completely backward compatible with any PC that conforms to IBM's original specs for it's PS/2 line. And the PS2 CPU is quite a bit more sophisticated than Intel's processors.

[Zerich]

I'm a PC player, and I can say it how it is. There's just nothing to be gained from dropping PS2. Whether people can move to another platform is irrelevant.

lol, no you aren't. good try though.

[RAIST]

But today's PCs are completely compatible with Windows 3.1 and earlier. Intel CPUs now support 64bit and have twice the number of registers but completely backward compatible with any PC that conforms to IBM's original specs for it's PS/2 line. And the PS2 CPU is quite a bit more sophisticated than Intel's processors.

Selective reading?


Knowing of this pending obsolescence for the PS2, the sooner they can start preparing a migration path off the dated platform and into a Windows centered environment, the better. Remember, PS2 is 12 years old...hard to find a high percentage of home users still running ME/W2K, and the XB360 is a Microsoft product and does incorporate some Windows components into it's development and such. It would greatly benefit them for future survival of the franchise to take steps as soon as possible to encourage users to migrate away from the PS2 so that when it does finally slope off the radar, they can have a smooth transition.

The older OS's from the 80's/90's are no longer mainstream for some specific reasons.....PS2 suffers in the same way. You can't find win 3.x drivers for newer hardware. Aside from maybe recovery and a short list of various maintenance utilities, you'd be hard pressed to find practical use software or games that boot into a DOS environment and use VESA graphics (think the last game I had that did that was Wing Commander, Heart of the Tiger or something like that). There are simply other platforms that superceed the PS2 much in the same way newer OS's superceded Win3.x and Win9x.

[Shotaro1]

Find a 360 on craigslist or something that is RRoD or something for like 10 dollars. Look on youtube for fix solutions. You dont need an electronics degree to do this. Fix the problem. Move to 360 if you are on ps2. Simple.

Or get with the times and get a PC for like 50 bucks and be pro.

[Tsuneo]

lol, no you aren't. good try though.
I'm not a PC player? You're an idiot if you think PS2 holds the game back.

[Wolfjorg]

It all comes down to JP onry.

[Natenn]

Man, still no reply from a dev? why wont they come out and just say: You have to get a PC/Xbox or it will be downloadable to PS2 users in NA? Or that they're still working out a way to get the expansion to PS2 users? Id like to know what the deal is so i can start sorting out my options.

[RagingAvatar]

I agree, we actually deserve an answer from the devs on this one.

[Camiie]

As horrible as their update system is I seriously doubt it could handle the traffic of such a hefty download.

[lowkey]

But today's PCs are completely compatible with Windows 3.1 and earlier. Intel CPUs now support 64bit and have twice the number of registers but completely backward compatible with any PC that conforms to IBM's original specs for it's PS/2 line. And the PS2 CPU is quite a bit more sophisticated than Intel's processors.

Windows 7 64 does not natively support 16 bit programs. Most new PCs come with the 64 bit version to make use of 4gb+ RAM If you want to run Win 3.1, or DOS programs, on a 64 bit machine, then you need an emulator to do so. Even getting older 32 bit programs running properly can be tricky.

[Zerich]

I'm not a PC player? You're an idiot if you think PS2 holds the game back.

woah bro, no need to start with the name-calling. if you have used your "context-clues" you'd realize that your undying defense for the ps2 console would lead anyone who can read to believe that you play on the ps2-version.

[Tsuneo]

woah bro, no need to start with the name-calling. if you have used your "context-clues" you'd realize that your undying defense for the ps2 console would lead anyone who can read to believe that you play on the ps2-version.
I don't play on PS2. I don't support ignorance, nor will I ever support ignorance. If I have to defend PS2 to combat ignorance, I will do just that.

[Laraul]

Windows 7 64 does not natively support 16 bit programs. Most new PCs come with the 64 bit version to make use of 4gb+ RAM If you want to run Win 3.1, or DOS programs, on a 64 bit machine, then you need an emulator to do so. Even getting older 32 bit programs running properly can be tricky.

Windows 7 includes a copy of Virtual PC which will run any version of Windows. That's all you need.

[RAIST]

Windows 7 includes a copy of Virtual PC which will run any version of Windows. That's all you need.

Then you are kind of doing what FFXI does....you are emulating another operating environment inside a virtual machine. In other words, (as lowkey pointed out) you are not running it natively.

Also, you may have to actually download that copy of Virtual PC (does not always come installed (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/compare)), and....depending on your system, it may not have hardware supported virtualization, which can open another can of worms. Sounds even a bit more like what goes on with FFXI, eh?

[Tamoa]

Naten, here's your reply:



Greetings,

I’d like to take a moment to clarify which platform Seekers of Adoulin will be available on for those that have been asking. We will continue to support North American FINAL FANTASY XI players on the PlayStation 2, Xbox 360 and PC (Windows) platforms. However, FINAL FANTASY XI: Seekers of Adoulin will only be available on the Xbox 360 and Windows platforms in North America when it is released in 2013.

Sorry. Time to get a pc!

[Tsuneo]

Their wording doesn't say there will never be PS2 release. I don't know if it was intentional or not. They should have just been blunt about it, so we can get the whining done with now.

[Aldersyde]

Only today's SE could take such a momentous occasion in the history of the game and turn it into such a controversy. They must be looping Benny Hill through their offices 24/7 to produce this level of derp.

[Mirage]

Windows 7 64 does not natively support 16 bit programs. Most new PCs come with the 64 bit version to make use of 4gb+ RAM If you want to run Win 3.1, or DOS programs, on a 64 bit machine, then you need an emulator to do so. Even getting older 32 bit programs running properly can be tricky.
32bit programs run natively on x64-windows though, so older 32-bit programs are incompatible with win7 because it's win7, not because of 32/64 bit differences. As a side note, however: Some 32bit games use 16bit installers, such as need for speed 2 and 3 (i wanted to play you and I hate you :((((( )

Anyway, talking about hardware, all x64 CPUs actually have the sufficient instructions and modes needed to natively run 16 bit programs. That's why running a 16-bit program inside a 32bit Windows Virtual machine on a x64bit windows isn't *really* emulation, but virtualization.

The difference might not be obvious, but there is a distinction between the two. Emulation generally involves "translating" instructions from one system to instructions that the current system's CPU understands. In the case of 16-bit on 64bit via virtualization, I am pretty sure the CPU executes the 16 bit program's instructions without them being translated to other instructions.

Likewise, WINE on Linux in order to run Windows applications isn't emulation in the same sense as (for example) zsnes, because these Linux systems run hardware that is more or less 100% compatible with the hardware Windows systems run on. That's why WINE usually sees far less performance loss compared to emulations of entire hardware systems.

Although, if someone who is actually really hardcore at virtualization comes in here and tells me I'm wrong now, I won't feel insulted.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I'm not a PC player? You're an idiot if you think PS2 holds the game back.

No PS2 doesn't hold it back, but Yes, PS2 can't handle much, to anything new. Heck it couldn't even handle small UI changes, let alone the big ones coming.

It also is Outdated junk, just an FYI.

[Zerich]

I don't play on PS2. I don't support ignorance, nor will I ever support ignorance. If I have to defend PS2 to combat ignorance, I will do just that.

Ignorance of what? What am I void of understanding and knowledge from that you are well versed in?

[RAIST]

@ Mirage: Clarification noted. Kinda the same thing with FFXI--not really emulation, but run in a wrapper. Kinda the same thing with the XP environment in Win7. The real point though is that the older software doesn't run natively within the scope of Win7--you have to inject that extra layer of code in there to make it run in the newer environment, and for most people that got win7 Home on the more affordable systems, they don't get the virtualization piece (has to be Pro or Ultimate). FFXI has to go through more or less the same thing--without the wrapper, it won't run in Windows.

It all boils down to the PS2 is legacy hardware/software that eventually will no longer be supported by it's designers, and will eventually be dropped, whereas even though Windows/*nix/Apple will continue to provide a means to "upconvert" existing software to the newer OS environments with far less impact than what you deal with when converting a to a newer console (in the case of the PS series, as they are always vastly different components in play). Oftentimes, the only way to justify porting to the newer console is if you plan to do a relaunch of the title---ie: Shadow of the Colossus/IQO HD re-release.