surefire way to get SE to drop ps2 support

[Doctrine]

now i dont really have an opinion on ps2 support, but i see a lot of people complaining about it holding back the game.

so i thought about SE's track record, and i figured out a bulletproof method of getting them to drop ps2 support

step1: get everyone in japan to STOP playing FF11 on ps2.

step2: get everyone in every other region to START playing FF11 on ps2

step3: ???

step4: ps2 support is dropped. im pretty sure you can figure out why

[Reiterpallasch]

Surefire way to drop PS2 support: Drop PS2 support.

[Camiie]

And once it's dropped then what? You really think they're going to fix all the game engine limitations?

[Gilraen]

I don't see that as working. I play on the PS2 and, really, don't see any reasons to stop.

[Kaisha]

It's still being supported in Japan as witnessed by the trailer on the Japanese Vana'fest stream last night.

Not sure what they'll do for over here. If they are doing it for PS2 over here, my guess is a digital download via the patch system, as slow as it is. No way they're licensing a new PS2 disc over here given you can't run XI on anything but those who own a PS2-fat and original copy of FFXI with a still operational harddrive and dvd-rom drive.

[Gilraen]

Well, if you have a first or second generation PS3 that will run FFXI, too. It's how I play nowadays, on a first gen 60g.

[Winrie]

Playing FFXI in 2012 on a Playstation 2 is like being 40 years old riding a bike to work.

[RAIST]

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/adoulin/index.html

scroll down to the bottom:


Title FINAL FANTASY XI® Seekers of Adoulin
Supported Systems Windows®　Xbox 360®
Release Date 2013

Someone in LS last night said they listed PS2 on the JP version of the site, but it's not listed as supported on the US site. Guessing this is how the ps2 support ends....slowly ween people off the console with future content releases?

[JiltedValkyrie]

Playing FFXI in 2012 on a Playstation 2 is like being 40 years old riding a bike to work.

You realize 40 is not that old, right? And riding a bike is not only cost-saving and eco-friendly, but also um healthy?

I am in agreement that the PS2 doesn't matter anymore. FFXI runs on 360 and just about every computer these days, even non-gaming laptops. None of these options are expensive.

[Mirage]

Playing FFXI in 2012 on a Playstation 2 is like being 40 years old riding a bike to work.

So... its healthy?

[Camiie]

Playing FFXI in 2012 on a Playstation 2 is like being 40 years old riding a bike to work.

Not all bikes are made for kids with bells, baskets, and tassels.

[Spiritreaver]

And once it's dropped then what? You really think they're going to fix all the game engine limitations?

Had this talk with a LSmate. Its easy for some to parrot "Drop PS2 now!" without actually addressing the actual issue, which is SE laziness.

[Mifaco]

Things to thank the PS2 for:

-Halfassed port to Windows complete with absent IME due to licensing issues.
-Terrible console-focused UI that is ages behind WoW or any other PC game.
-Horrible draw distance on the Windows version.
-50 model limit - thanks for shopping PJ, come again when you can see me.
-Auto-translate dictionary is full, we'll never get another auto-translate term added again.
-No visible capes.
-Absolutely horrible UI scaling for a UI designed for a 640x480 resolution. I sure do like having my alliance boxes disappear for no reason when I open my macro menu!
-Graphical DOWNGRADES - yes, DOWNGRADES - because the PS2 just can't handle it. Case in point: Aern bracelets and Avatar glows used to look much better before they were downgraded
-Endless corridor after corridor after corridor, even in outdoor areas. Notice how there are few really "wide open" areas in the expansion areas?

Face facts, supporting a dying platform is foolish. This game could have been so much more were it not chained to the PS2.

[Camiie]

Face facts, supporting a dying platform is foolish. This game could have been so much more were it not chained to the PS2.

Sure it could have been so much more, but it IS tied to the PS2 and that is NEVER EVER going to change. It IS a PS2 game sloppily ported to PC and 360 and it always will be.

FFXI will never be modernized to any great extent. It can't be without far more work and money than SE is willing to put into it. There's not some magic switch in the code that turns off "PS2 Limitations." There's no "Infinite Storage" setting. There's no "HD Graphics" or "High Res Textures" button they can push. It's an old game and it's always going to look and feel like one even with the new UI. If people want a modern game experience then they need to find a modern game to play.

If every PS2 died tomorrow and every PS2 user switched to PC the day after it wouldn't change a damn thing.

[oliveira]

Things to thank the PS2 for:
-50 model limit - thanks for shopping PJ, come again when you can see me.
Face facts, supporting a dying platform is foolish. This game could have been so much more were it not chained to the PS2.

PS2 draws more players than PC version on crowd situations. Which is funny. The bottleneck is the way the game is being run ON THE PC which might be a argument for you, but still while on the PS2 I can see people dash past me as their models load faster than on the PC. Fun stuff...

Only complains that I consider valid are the console focused UI (FFXI is a Console game for all that matters) and I could rant how mouse support on the windows version suck to a point it even gets on the way of proper gameplay when you accidentally click inside the game window...

What binds and chains FFXI is the design, not the platform. And funny enough, the design is what made what it is today. So we're like dogs who are chasing their own tails.

[cidbahamut]

Who the hell uses a mouse with FFXI?

[oliveira]

Who the hell uses a mouse with FFXI?

They would do me a big favor if they added a option to DISABLE the mouse completely inside the game window. :D

[Gilraen]

Wow, people who understand FFXI's origins. So rare these days, really. Yes, FFXI was originally released on the PS2 to showcase Sony's HDD peripheral. The Beta release (in Japan only) and initial retail release had HDD pack-ins preinstalled with FFXI. Further, at the time, only the PS2 retail release had Zilart included. They did the PC version first in the US because the US had many more personally owned PCs than Japan (ironic, huh) making it easier to produce, though they also did not include Zilart in a bid to get more money on expansions. We still got the PS2 HDD bundle, complete with Zilart, over here and that's how I got into the game because, well, I couldn't afford a capable PC then. As has been pointed out, they won't change the game once the PS2 is ultimately left by the wayside. It's the very heart of the game, will be till the day the servers finally go silent as all MMOs must do.

Also, if you enable hardware mouse the game window won't hold the cursor hostage anymore.

[Diraco]

If you play on the PS2, you're doing yourself a disservice. The game looks plain terrible on PS2. Check out these example videos (same video as I linked to on ffxiah, move along if you already saw):

PS2, maximum possible capture quality (please select 720p resolution):
PS2 640x480 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d2j0k5V7ig)

PC, maximum quality on old ATI drivers,1x background (select 720p resolution):
PC 1280x720, lowest resolution that most would use on a PC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3-Q6DG-ji0)

One thing the PS2 does have going for it that you'll notice in the video, is the character models on PC load unbelievably slowly compared to the PS2, even though I used a very fast PC (5ghz i7) and XI installed to SSD.

[oliveira]

One thing the PS2 does have going for it that you'll notice in the video, is the character models on PC load unbelievably slowly compared to the PS2, even though I used a very fast PC (5ghz i7) and XI installed to SSD.

Well, PS2 uses a lightweight simplified POSIX (linux/unix like) kernel, extremely optimized I/O drivers (compared to the generic stuff Windows use to be compatible with anything) running on a dedicated I/O CPU and a ridiculously high video memory bandwidth (around 38 GB per second) ... You could probably have four veridical confluxes spinning close to each other and the PS2 would not slow down a single frame from all that effects being drawn.

But yes, it's resolution is even lower than 640x480. In fact it's 512x512. Put the PC version on 640x480 window size with 512x512 back buffer and you get exactly same graphics as the PS2 version

[Tsuneo]

Oh look, it's this thread again.

[oliveira]

Oh look, it's this thread again.

Missing the meme picture, man ... /facepalm

[Spiritreaver]

Put this in another "Drop PS2" thread, here it is again



FinalFantasy.de: There is no version of Final Fantasy XI for the PS3. Are there any plans to develop one? In Europe, there are no HDDs available for the PS2.

A: At the moment, there are no plans to develop a PS3 version. They already have the PS2 game, and they plan to continue supporting the PS2. They don't feel it would be the best use of resources to work on the PS3. Unfortunately, Square Enix is not a hardware manufacturer. They would love to release a HDD, but there is nothing they can do.


Link (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=29967&storypage=2)

[Doctrine]

it seems a lot of people's sarcasm detector is broken

this was, in essence, a joke/satire thread. a lot of people takin it seriously. can't believe i got away with that

[Arcon]

I play on the PS2 and, really, don't see any reasons to stop.

Let me give you some:
Better graphics (in several aspects)
Better controls
Less lag
Ability to multibox
Windower plugins
Have both TV and PS2 ready for use (there's many games worth playing on the PS2, FFXI is not one of them)


If every PS2 died tomorrow and every PS2 user switched to PC the day after it wouldn't change a damn thing.

Two days after it might. Announcing a proper expansion at this point is much more significant than many people seem to realize; it's a sign that they haven't given up on improving this game, something that many people already assumed after the last few disappointing updates.

As Spiritreaver said, SE's own motivation plays a crucial role in any further development, and as such killing the PS2 is not a magical fix. It is, however, a huge first step, especially since SE has shown that their motivation isn't completely gone.


this was, in essence, a joke/satire thread. a lot of people takin it seriously. can't believe i got away with that

Contrary to popular belief, people don't own the threads they start. I don't think anyone took your post seriously, but it did give fuel to a serious debate, which isn't surprising, considering the topic. This is something people will be arguing about for decades to come, even after the PS2 has been killed (I give it five more years, personally).

[Spiritreaver]

1) Let me give you some:
Better graphics (in several aspects)
Better controls
Less lag
Ability to multibox
Windower plugins
Have both TV and PS2 ready for use (there's many games worth playing on the PS2, FFXI is not one of them)


2)Two days after it might. Announcing a proper expansion at this point is much more significant than many people seem to realize; it's a sign that they haven't given up on improving this game, something that many people already assumed after the last few disappointing updates.


3)As Spiritreaver said, SE's own motivation plays a crucial role in any further development, and as such killing the PS2 is not a magical fix. It is, however, a huge first step, especially since SE has shown that their motivation isn't completely gone.


4)Contrary to popular belief, people don't own the threads they start. I don't think anyone took your post seriously, but it did give fuel to a serious debate, which isn't surprising, considering the topic. This is something people will be arguing about for decades to come, even after the PS2 has been killed (I give it five more years, personally).


@1 I struck though the ones that can be done regardless of what platform you run FFXI on. Better graphics and the ability to use plugins are the only ones that actually stand. And of those two, graphics are the only real one of note imo.

@2 Rebuild from the bottom up, code-wise or make what changes are possible for higher end platforms while not 'cutting loose' the lower end; those are the two choices SE had in relation to building the future FFXI experience. They chose the later, which is how i'd do it if i'd been faced with the choice. You keep your whole customer base and do your best to placate the higher end.

@3 A huge step forward...five yrs ago. If SE was ever going to realistically do a full on code rewrite, imo it should have been done before WotG hit. Going further i think MANY things should have been done before WotG went live, but SE was too busy overstepping(IE: FFXIV) when they should have been consolidating their resources behing XI...but then hindsight is 20/20.

@4 This isn't a serious debate. This is an old and tiresome argument that pops up every so often and always ends the same way. Both sides woulda, shoulda, coulda themselves to the point of absurdity; and at the end of the day Japanese players love their PS2s. And until THAT changes, SE isn't going to cut them off. And until they are cut off, SE isn't going to rip up the old carpet and lay in any new.

Graphical updates, UI changes for PC users, and any other nifty things they can throw in for PC users; i'm gonna take them and gladly. Until the root issue of a 10+ yr old game being still supported on a 12+ yr old system is addressed for real by SE, that is.

[Arcon]

You struck through what didn't appeal to you or which you refuse to believe, which is ok, but shouldn't be used as an argumentative tool.

You seem hung up on the "complete rewrite" argument, and I have two things to say to that:
1. It isn't needed. Even very simple things like increasing the inventory would be worth axing the remaining PS2 users to most people.
2. It is possible, and it doesn't seem too far-fetched. How else do you explain the complete UI revamp? PC users already have better interface options (like higher resolution) and now they're enabling a whole slew of new features exclusive for PC users. What indication do you have to suggest they wouldn't wanna push this further?

Whether or not it's a serious debate can't be decided by the topic itself but depends solely on the seriousness of the contributing posts, and at least mine are. I'm not bashing PS2 users, I'm stating facts. Playing on a PS2 is objectively worse than playing on a PC, for some of the reasons I stated above. And it is definitely a hindrance in development. Whether it's the only one or whether it's a bottleneck or not is a different issue.

And five years ago PS2 users were a lot more common than they are today, and at the same time the PS2 wasn't as close to its limits as it is now. Cancelling it sooner may have been better, but I wouldn't be entirely sure about that either, because there were a lot more people who could potentially be upset about it. These days however, the PS2 playing population is vanishingly small, and the PS2 itself is becoming more and more of a hindrance. As time drags on, games evolve. Saying "it's too late" makes no sense; the later it gets, the bigger the relative benefit would be.

[Spiritreaver]

Let me give you some:
Better graphics (in several aspects)
Better controls
Less lag
Ability to multibox
Windower plugins
Have both TV and PS2 ready for use (there's many games worth playing on the PS2, FFXI is not one of them)



Two days after it might. Announcing a proper expansion at this point is much more significant than many people seem to realize; it's a sign that they haven't given up on improving this game, something that many people already assumed after the last few disappointing updates.

As Spiritreaver said, SE's own motivation plays a crucial role in any further development, and as such killing the PS2 is not a magical fix. It is, however, a huge first step, especially since SE has shown that their motivation isn't completely gone.



Contrary to popular belief, people don't own the threads they start. I don't think anyone took your post seriously, but it did give fuel to a serious debate, which isn't surprising, considering the topic. This is something people will be arguing about for decades to come, even after the PS2 has been killed (I give it five more years, personally).


You struck through what didn't appeal to you or which you refuse to believe, which is ok, but shouldn't be used as an argumentative tool.

You seem hung up on the "complete rewrite" argument, and I have two things to say to that:
1. It isn't needed. Even very simple things like increasing the inventory would be worth axing the remaining PS2 users to most people.
2. It is possible, and it doesn't seem too far-fetched. How else do you explain the complete UI revamp? PC users already have better interface options (like higher resolution) and now they're enabling a whole slew of new features exclusive for PC users. What indication do you have to suggest they wouldn't wanna push this further?

Whether or not it's a serious debate can't be decided by the topic itself but depends solely on the seriousness of the contributing posts, and at least mine are. I'm not bashing PS2 users, I'm stating facts. Playing on a PS2 is objectively worse than playing on a PC, for some of the reasons I stated above. And it is definitely a hindrance in development. Whether it's the only one or whether it's a bottleneck or not is a different issue.

And five years ago PS2 users were a lot more common than they are today, and at the same time the PS2 wasn't as close to its limits as it is now. Cancelling it sooner may have been better, but I wouldn't be entirely sure about that either, because there were a lot more people who could potentially be upset about it. These days however, the PS2 playing population is vanishingly small, and the PS2 itself is becoming more and more of a hindrance. As time drags on, games evolve. Saying "it's too late" makes no sense; the later it gets, the bigger the relative benefit would be.

First i struck through what is preference or opinion. Better graphics and the ability to use plugins are the only 100% factiods on that list. I play on both a PC and console; controls are identical(you can go all kb or kb/controller either way), depending on area and whats going on-lag can be/is just as bad on PC as it is on a console, multi-boxing is controlling multiple characters(anecdotally, i remember when ppl i knew ingame ragged on RMT for doing this back in the day)-which has been possible forever, and having tv and console ready for use is just silly as you can easily reverse that point by having TV/console being used and a PC being freed up for other purposes.


Second A) You should know, since you seem to have a firm grasp of this, that FFXI has crazy 'spaghetti' coding. We've seen it in action tons in the past, i know you have examples that pop to mind. You are gonna sit there and tell me that just ignoring the PS2 coding and layering heavy changes on top of it isn't gonna cause huge problems down the line? No if they aren't going to maintain it, it should be removed.

and

B) I explain it by saying they are NOT ignoring the PS2 coding. They are adding in stuff that can be utilized by a windows based OS, but you best believe they are also paying attention to the PS2 coding(support?) so as to not impede its functionality. See aforementioned 'spaghetti' coding.


Thirdly, playing FFXI on a console can very well be worse than playing on a PC. But that's not the point. The point is SE is still supporting FFXI on a console.

No, you personally aren't bashing console players. And yes, you might be stating fact(i say might because you have no more numbers than me or anyone else NOT SE). The overriding fact of the matter is that until Japanese FFXI players get tired of their PS2/3's, SE isn't cutting the PS2. And until that happens, its workarounds for everyone, which makes all these types of threads 'old and tiresome' as the end result of them is known going in.


And lastly, no. Five years ago FFXI was in a much better position that it is atm. Then would have been the best time to 'strike while the iron is hot' and to have at LEAST started migrating players away from consoles. What went down is pretty well known now, resources were diverted from XI(which was pretty much left on life support) and funneled into XIV instead of building that game up on its own. SE missed the mark there and the price they pay is they lost much ground in building up XI in the form of lost subs, loss of face, and plain old momentum as a company, in the MMO market anyways.

Me personally, i'm just content to play the game at this point. I'm getting too old to be constantly obsessing about what the guy next to me is working with or not working with. I was in my early 20's when FFXI hit the scene and was in the industry(PC hardware as if it matters now); i knew what i was getting into when SE said the game was going to be multiplatform-with all the issues that could entail down the road. If i wanted superflash of substance i would have quit long ago.

[katoplepa]

months ago, wehn abyssea was losing of interest, all the people said : to keep this game alive, we need another expansion! we need another continent! another capital! we need another.... etc.

SE heared and they done the survey, remember? "what system you use to login in the game?" well... I don't know the results, but now the answer is here : drop ps2 support, and release of a new expansion, with a new continent, a new capital, etc.

without new expansions, with new zones and new things to do, the game die, so SE needs to drop the ps2 support to keep this game alive.

you will play this game forever on ps2 even whitout no more expansions, no more new things to do?

[Calamity]

Look, I just wanna know if there are any plans to develop ffxi for my atari 2600. I think it's still a viable console.

[Diraco]

Well, PS2 uses a lightweight simplified POSIX (linux/unix like) kernel, extremely optimized I/O drivers (compared to the generic stuff Windows use to be compatible with anything) running on a dedicated I/O CPU and a ridiculously high video memory bandwidth (around 38 GB per second) ... You could probably have four veridical confluxes spinning close to each other and the PS2 would not slow down a single frame from all that effects being drawn.

Pretty silly thread at this point, but I can't help myself! The PS2 was fairly impressive back in its day, but c'mon. It's using a 5400rpm hard drive on a UDMA66 connection. Even if it has an infinitely fast IO subsystem, it grabs textures and models off a drive with a random read speed of ~0.5MB/s. Also, the video memory bandwidth wouldn't matter for model loading speed; only the speed of its DMA controller would matter (said to be ~133MB/s when reading through the IO processor, 2.4GB/s from main memory).

The PC I used for that video has an SSD with random read speed of ~80MB/s. Even if windows' notoriously lousy threading and IO scheduling slow the drive down by 100X, it should be at least as fast as a PS2, but in reality it's 10X slower! Seems impossible that it could be that slow from a harware perspective -- I suspect that XI intentionally throttles model loading rate on the PC...

[Zeargi]

months ago, wehn abyssea was losing of interest, all the people said : to keep this game alive, we need another expansion! we need another continent! another capital! we need another.... etc.

SE heared and they done the survey, remember? "what system you use to login in the game?" well... I don't know the results, but now the answer is here : drop ps2 support, and release of a new expansion, with a new continent, a new capital, etc.

without new expansions, with new zones and new things to do, the game die, so SE needs to drop the ps2 support to keep this game alive.

you will play this game forever on ps2 even whitout no more expansions, no more new things to do?

But they are continuing to support it. This game IS a console game. Plan and simple, you only have this game because it was released on the PS2 first.


Things to thank the PS2 for:

-Halfassed port to Windows complete with absent IME due to licensing issues.
-Terrible console-focused UI that is ages behind WoW or any other PC game.
-Horrible draw distance on the Windows version.
-50 model limit - thanks for shopping PJ, come again when you can see me.
-Auto-translate dictionary is full, we'll never get another auto-translate term added again.
-No visible capes.
-Absolutely horrible UI scaling for a UI designed for a 640x480 resolution. I sure do like having my alliance boxes disappear for no reason when I open my macro menu!
-Graphical DOWNGRADES - yes, DOWNGRADES - because the PS2 just can't handle it. Case in point: Aern bracelets and Avatar glows used to look much better before they were downgraded
-Endless corridor after corridor after corridor, even in outdoor areas. Notice how there are few really "wide open" areas in the expansion areas?

Face facts, supporting a dying platform is foolish. This game could have been so much more were it not chained to the PS2.
Well, You CAN go play FF14, right now it's still a PC only game and looks amazing... Oh, but it's launch didn't do so swift... hmm. Maybe because graphics aren't everything, and PC exclusive UI doesn't always meet what you're looking for either. This game is amazing in the aspect that it has broken the boundaries. To my knowledge, there has never been a game that allowed True Multi-platform interaction. There a few games like Call of Duty that has some PC/XBox, but never A Sony machine and a Windows Machine. I like my friends on PS2, and welcome people from XBoxes and PCs. Why is it just so freakin' hard for people to enjoy what they have? Yes, things need to be tweaked, but Graphics are not on my high points of selling things. Play Minecraft looks like trash, but it's awesomely addictive!

Also: Roadmap (http://dl.square-enix.co.jp/ffxi/US/2012roadmap.jpg) They're looking to update the UI...

[Gilraen]

Pretty silly thread at this point, but I can't help myself! The PS2 was fairly impressive back in its day, but c'mon. It's using a 5400rpm hard drive on a UDMA66 connection. Even if it has an infinitely fast IO subsystem, it grabs textures and models off a drive with a random read speed of ~0.5MB/s. Also, the video memory bandwidth wouldn't matter for model loading speed; only the speed of its DMA controller would matter (said to be ~133MB/s when reading through the IO processor, 2.4GB/s from main memory).

The PC I used for that video has an SSD with random read speed of ~80MB/s. Even if windows' notoriously lousy threading and IO scheduling slow the drive down by 100X, it should be at least as fast as a PS2, but in reality it's 10X slower! Seems impossible that it could be that slow from a harware perspective -- I suspect that XI intentionally throttles model loading rate on the PC...
Actually, I think I read that it does just that because when the PC version was released PCs weren't exactly as capable as the PS2 when it came to graphics. Square's solution was to treat PCs as being less capable. Of course, it's a non-issue now but then we're back to the argument of rebuilding the game, only this time the PC version.

[sc4500]

It be nice if they slowly start to get to get rid the ps2 support, but the problem is microsoft owns the rights to this game on this current generation of consoles til 2016 i think. and xbox not selling to well in japan so those in japan on ps2 or pc or portable system the ps3 version game is hacked version that microsoft or sony not really dealing with it at the moment.

Microsoft gave square a emulater that can play any console game up to the xbox360 in the agreement. reason the xbox version seem so weak because being emulated , if they just support pc and xbox and slowly start to update the engine dont need do it in a day it be crazy for pc and xbox users and make it so ps2 version game cant go those areas with enhance graphics just there ps2 ver , and any new areas if on the ps2 cant go to that area need update system pc or xbox. xbox 360 can handle a ton stuff, just pc able to tweek stuff.

[Aiyame]

I honestly think it's a crock of crap for SE to drop Sony players from being able to play with the new expansion they could at least work with Sony to make PS3 workable with FFXI format and what not, I am a PC player granted but my husband and brother in law are not, so it's not fair -_-

[Laraul]

Microsoft gave square a emulater that can play any console game up to the xbox360 in the agreement. reason the xbox version seem so weak because being emulated , if they just support pc and xbox and slowly start to update the engine dont need do it in a day it be crazy for pc and xbox users and make it so ps2 version game cant go those areas with enhance graphics just there ps2 ver , and any new areas if on the ps2 cant go to that area need update system pc or xbox. xbox 360 can handle a ton stuff, just pc able to tweek stuff.

The 360 version is a rapid port from the Windows version. It's not run on anything that's being emulated.

Take a look at all the remastered ports of PS2 games for the PS3 or 360. The God of War collection, Shadow of the Colossus, MGS 2 and 3. These all are games where a large amount of effort and work went into "improving the graphics" and other aspects of each game. They don't look anymore radically improved than the 360/PC versions of FFXI over the PS2 ones. All dropping the PS2 version would do is loose players.

[Laraul]

The PC I used for that video has an SSD with random read speed of ~80MB/s. Even if windows' notoriously lousy threading and IO scheduling slow the drive down by 100X, it should be at least as fast as a PS2, but in reality it's 10X slower! Seems impossible that it could be that slow from a harware perspective -- I suspect that XI intentionally throttles model loading rate on the PC...

Your 5Ghz PC is being smoked by a 300Mhz console? Ouch... And Windows threading is fairly efficient. You shouldn't just say "the one thing that's slower MUST be made to be slower" it doesn't work like that. The hardware specs does not matter. How you use the hardware does.

[katoplepa]

But they are continuing to support it. This game IS a console game. Plan and simple, you only have this game because it was released on the PS2 first.

...

yes but 10 years passed by ... world's changed and playerbase too... now the playerbase is on PC, and we are glad to continue paying monthly fee if SE release new contents, new expansions and new things to do... and to do this, SE need to drop ps2 support... drop ps2 = chances to develop new expansions = keep this game alive = playerbase continue to pay

[Mirage]

The 360 version is a rapid port from the Windows version. It's not run on anything that's being emulated.

Take a look at all the remastered ports of PS2 games for the PS3 or 360. The God of War collection, Shadow of the Colossus, MGS 2 and 3. These all are games where a large amount of effort and work went into "improving the graphics" and other aspects of each game. They don't look anymore radically improved than the 360/PC versions of FFXI over the PS2 ones. All dropping the PS2 version would do is loose players.

They do, actually. 4x AA, progressive scan instead of interlacing, and stable 60 fps add up to a significant improvement over how the games ran on the PS2. Additionally, this is done with hardware that is significantly weaker than current PCs, especially in the GPU department.

I also think you greatly exaggerate the amount of work that making a HD port of a PS2 game takes.

[Zeargi]

yes but 10 years passed by ... world's changed and playerbase too... now the playerbase is on PC, and we are glad to continue paying monthly fee if SE release new contents, new expansions and new things to do... and to do this, SE need to drop ps2 support... drop ps2 = chances to develop new expansions = keep this game alive = playerbase continue to pay

And the PS2 players pay that monthly fee just the same. They've add ToAU, WotG, and 6 mini-expansions. I think that pretty good amount for unit that has "limitations." There's no reason to drop support if people still use. They've proven they can install stuff to improve the the UI for the Xbox and PC without impacting the PS2 people. This should be no different.

[Arcon]

There's no reason to drop support if people still use.

Here's a reason: it's not profitable. All the reason there is and all the reason they need to have made this choice.