FINAL FANTASY XI® Seekers of Adoulin

[BST]

Hello!

A couple of questions about this new expansion:
Will this be released on disc like WoTG (5th expansion).
Why no mention of Playstation2 support on the site and in the video?

[Arcon]

The japanese version of the website does have PS2 listed as supported. Not sure where the discrepancy comes from.

[Limecat]

Most likely they just didn't feel the need to mention it in the trailer since the system is defunct, and anyone who still plays will already know it's on the PS2. Not to mention that it's not like a new player is going to watch it and think "Oh wow, that's on the PS2? I'd better go grab a used one from Gamestop and try to find the hard drive on eBay!" Though, I wouldn't be shocked to find out that they're doing it totally digitally. Not much sense really in making a disc for it.

[Edyth]

It's probably a disc-based expansion, and they probably aren't releasing it for PS2 in the U.S. because it wouldn't be profitable enough.

[Sydebeheln]

I think I heard last night it was a full disk based expansion. Not to say it won't be digital as well, but there will probably be perks to buying a retail version over a digital copy. Anyway, I don't blame SE for not mentioning PS2 support, partially because I think SE is trying to trim down the number of PS2 players as much as possible. If they can get the number of ps2 players down to a minimum, then maybe they can have an excuse to drop it, and benefit in more expansions in the future.

[Gilraen]

You may lament PS2 support but that happens to be the version I play on. Yeah, I do have a computer that can run the game fine but I already own all the PS2 version disks so why go out and buy a whole other version when I already have a perfectly good install already? I find the lack of a US PS2 release distressing as it does mean I will have to more than just buy the new expansion but also a full PC version as well. I feel like I'm being doubly penalized for a game that I've been supporting for the better part of 7 years. Are you saying I'm that much less a customer for play on the PS2? (Honestly I'm playing on the PS3, but I did play on the PS2 for the years preceding the PS3's release).

[Edyth]

You may lament PS2 support but that happens to be the version I play on. Yeah, I do have a computer that can run the game fine but I already own all the PS2 version disks so why go out and buy a whole other version when I already have a perfectly good install already? I find the lack of a US PS2 release distressing as it does mean I will have to more than just buy the new expansion but also a full PC version as well. I feel like I'm being doubly penalized, here, for a game that I've been supporting for the better part of 7 years. Are you saying I'm that much less a customer for play on the PS2? (Honestly I'm playing on the PS3, but I did play on the PS2 for the years preceding the PS3's release).

I switched from playing on PS3 to PC, and the only thing I miss is the immersiveness of playing on a TV screen. The graphics are better, you can watch TV while playing FFXI, there's less lag, and there are more options to reduce lag (it's insane that they don't let you turn off weather effects on PS2).

[Dragoy]

I find the lack of a US PS2 release distressing as it does mean I will have to more than just buy the new expansion but also a full PC version as well.

Would probably make most sense to wait until a cheap-o-collection with everything included in that case. ^^

[Gilraen]

Last time they did that it was from a download service... oh, wait, they're still offering that on the main site. We'll wait and see how they handle this new expansion.

[JiltedValkyrie]

I switched from playing on PS3 to PC, and the only thing I miss is the immersiveness of playing on a TV screen. The graphics are better, you can watch TV while playing FFXI, there's less lag, and there are more options to reduce lag (it's insane that they don't let you turn off weather effects on PS2).

Why play on a monitor? I have my desktop hooked up to a 42" HDTV with HDMI.

[Merton9999]

Why play on a monitor? I have my desktop hooked up to a 42" HDTV with HDMI.

This is what I do too. I stayed on PS2 for a while, despite always having a PC that could support the game, simply because I saw no good reason to go through the download and install process when PS2 was working fine. I finally switched when PS2 would freeze at every ToAU cut scene.

I don't give a flying fig one way or the other if PS2 support continues, but I can honestly say for the record that I don't miss anything about playing on PS2. I have the comfort of console in my recliner and a USB controller and an HDMI hookup to the TV. The game updates faster on PC, I never freeze on NPCs, it looks better, and man do I love being able to turn off weather effects. If I want to watch TV while playing I just unplug the HDMI, switch inputs on the TV and watch the game on a decent monitor.

[Arcon]

Are you saying I'm that much less a customer for play on the PS2?

Yes, because you're holding up the development and progress of the entire game, hurting SE and other players in the process, including yourself because you're settling for a much worse game than it could be. Shame on you.


I switched from playing on PS3 to PC, and the only thing I miss is the immersiveness of playing on a TV screen.

You can still play on a TV, with even better graphics.

[bungiefanNA]

You may lament PS2 support but that happens to be the version I play on. Yeah, I do have a computer that can run the game fine but I already own all the PS2 version disks so why go out and buy a whole other version when I already have a perfectly good install already? I find the lack of a US PS2 release distressing as it does mean I will have to more than just buy the new expansion but also a full PC version as well. I feel like I'm being doubly penalized for a game that I've been supporting for the better part of 7 years. Are you saying I'm that much less a customer for play on the PS2? (Honestly I'm playing on the PS3, but I did play on the PS2 for the years preceding the PS3's release).

Why would you have to buy PC install discs? They aren't copy protected, and don't require registration codes to log into an existing account, so you could just borrow discs from a friend that plays on PC, or get the installer from a friend that did a digital download purchase. You have to buy PS2 and Xbox discs because they have copy protection, but not so for PC. BlueGartr has one of many solutions for you.

As for playing on PS2, for years it was the most stable version of the game. If you don't run Windows, it's hard to play the PC version, and if you do, you have to deal with all the support programs that run in the background (antivirus, Windows update, and in the case of my system the server software since it's also my media server for the house). PS2 just boots right up into the game and isn't likely to crash on you except for stuff since WotG, because SE stopped fixing issues that would cause cutscenes to lock for that expansion.

When I tried to make the switch to PC, they didn't support my graphics card well, and after a patch I was getting 3-12 FPS outside the mog house. I couldn't do my mission set party without being on my PS2. No driver I could find for my card, which was more then capable of the game until that patch, would raise my frame rate, making my WHM useless for targeting and healing. I stayed on PS2 a good while longer because I didn't have to fuss with drivers, or spend more money trying to get a different graphics card. It had to wait until my next PC 3 years later before I wanted to try running PC version again. PS2 at least has consistent behaviour, because the system is standardized.

[BST]

Hmm... no official answer listed anywhere, though it seems like it will be business as usual.
Say, we did get forced to "Upgrade HDD space or be unable to play" etc.

There are people who play on playstation, i am one of them but i do also have this on Xbox 360 as well. What platform people play on should not matter. Remember this is a cross-platform game after all and supports many languages as well. :D

[Gilraen]

Why would you have to buy PC install discs? They aren't copy protected, and don't require registration codes to log into an existing account, so you could just borrow discs from a friend that plays on PC, or get the installer from a friend that did a digital download purchase.
Oddly, not everyone knows someone/is friends with/lives next to someone who plays FFXI, much less plays it on PC. Unless you're willing to send me your copy in the mail I'm still going to be forced to get the PC version along with the expansion just to play in the new area. It's best not to assume that everyone personally knows someone else who plays, it's just not the case nor has it ever really been so.

[Reiterpallasch]

I'm curious how it's possible to play an MMO and not have any friends.

[Gilraen]

I play a couple MMOs, I have several friends. Do you know how often those two lines cross? Not very. Change the first one to specific MMOs and those lines don't cross at all. It's not that rare a thing in the U.S.

[Finuve]

torrent the fricking ISOs

seriously, I have FFXI on 3 computers and never once have I had the install discs or purchased a PC copy

and nothing on PC makes it hard to play anywhere, hook an HDMI up and play on the couch with a PS3 controller, and at least then you can fix the massive blur the PS2 has on newer TVs, as well as inject some supersampling so you can make out what the characters look like

and so much less performance issues even with a mediocre PC

but seriously stop playing on PS2, or don't play Seekers of Adoulin, your choice.

[Zyla420]

like the above user said, just go download a torrent with the installation software in it. hell if nothin else, you can get the game and like every expansion + mini expansion with the abyssea collection for like $20. this is very affordable, as opposed to the xbox and ps2 versions of the game, which are so outrageously priced ppl just play on pc anyways. i'm broke as shit cause i have bills and shit to pay, car upkeep and maintenance, a cat to feed, and even with all that shit i still have an extra $20 to spare... even if you don't have $20 extra to spare, hell save up loose change in your couch for like 2 weeks or somethin >.>

[Anapingofness]

So basically, I'm glad that they're adding new content to the game because they needed it. Mind you, they still have to address the existing problems in regards to old or dead content.

I'm also glad that they're starting to think outside of the box. I'm really looking forward to the new expansion.

However, one thing I don't agree with is their decision not to try and attract brand new players. I feel that this is a critical mistake on SE's part.


http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=29967

[Spiritreaver]

Hmm... no official answer listed anywhere, though it seems like it will be business as usual.
Say, we did get forced to "Upgrade HDD space or be unable to play" etc.

There are people who play on playstation, i am one of them but i do also have this on Xbox 360 as well. What platform people play on should not matter. Remember this is a cross-platform game after all and supports many languages as well. :D


So basically, I'm glad that they're adding new content to the game because they needed it. Mind you, they still have to address the existing problems in regards to old or dead content.

I'm also glad that they're starting to think outside of the box. I'm really looking forward to the new expansion.

However, one thing I don't agree with is their decision not to try and attract brand new players. I feel that this is a critical mistake on SE's part.


http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=29967

From the second page of the same write-up (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=29967&storypage=2)


FinalFantasy.de: There is no version of Final Fantasy XI for the PS3. Are there any plans to develop one? In Europe, there are no HDDs available for the PS2.

A: At the moment, there are no plans to develop a PS3 version. They already have the PS2 game, and they plan to continue supporting the PS2. They don't feel it would be the best use of resources to work on the PS3. Unfortunately, Square Enix is not a hardware manufacturer. They would love to release a HDD, but there is nothing they can do.

[Dragoy]

Just wanted to mention for those who do not know, that it is actually a violation of the User Agreement to even borrow them discs, so this might not be the best place to suggest such means of acquiring the data. ^^;

Not pointing at, or giving the wag of any fingers to anyone!
Just sayin'~

Not that they enforce the particular rules much, if at all, but yeah, I think it's something good to know.


I do wonder what they will do with the outside of Japan PS2 support, as it would seem like an expansion that indeed warrants physical release, like with Wings of the Goddess for example. Nowadays there are digital options for all those as well, but I don't know if it would be possible for the PS2 in particular...

[Bearstar]

One thing that would be great if that more than one account could be linked to an xbox account. My brother had a xbox mule he deleted and if PS2 dies in america he doesn't want to spend another $50 for a new xbox account to link it to.

[BST]

From the second page of the same write-up (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=29967&storypage=2)
Okay so from that interview there, PS2 will continue for JP/NA (never had EU release) and there wont be a release for PS3 or PSVita.
Kinda funny Square would like to release a HDD for EU PS2 players(if i read that right) yet "They don't feel it would be the best use of resources to work on the PS3". :o

[Spiritreaver]

Okay so from that interview there, PS2 will continue for JP/NA (never had EU release) and there wont be a release for PS3 or PSVita.
Kinda funny Square would like to release a HDD for EU PS2 players(if i read that right) yet "They don't feel it would be the best use of resources to work on the PS3". :o

Of course it wouldn't in their opinion. If ppl had a souped up version that was made for PS3, they might not make that jump to XIV when its planned PS3 version hits.

Just me guessing, but the HDD comment was prolly in regards to how Sony handled the HDD everywhere except Japan.

[Bayohne]

Greetings,

I’d like to take a moment to clarify which platform Seekers of Adoulin will be available on for those that have been asking. We will continue to support North American FINAL FANTASY XI players on the PlayStation 2, Xbox 360 and PC (Windows) platforms. However, FINAL FANTASY XI: Seekers of Adoulin will only be available on the Xbox 360 and Windows platforms in North America when it is released in 2013.

[Dazusu]

Bookmarked this thread. Popcorn get.

[Benihana]

Bookmarked this thread. Popcorn get.
haha, laughing so hard RN.

I'm shocked they are seriously gonna do this.

especially since they giving the ps2 version to jps.

[Tsuneo]

It's hardly surprising. What retailers carry new PS2 games?

[Keyln]

Greetings,

I’d like to take a moment to clarify which platform Seekers of Adoulin will be available on for those that have been asking. We will continue to support North American FINAL FANTASY XI players on the PlayStation 2, Xbox 360 and PC (Windows) platforms. However, FINAL FANTASY XI: Seekers of Adoulin will only be available on the Xbox 360 and Windows platforms in North America when it is released in 2013.

Just out of curiosity, why will the new expansion not be available on the PS2 for North America? What will be done with customers who only play on the PS2?

[Tsuneo]

Just out of curiosity, why will the new expansion not be available on the PS2 for North America? What will be done with customers who only play on the PS2?
Nothing will be done. You'll have to suck it up.

[Zerich]

Just out of curiosity, why will the new expansion not be available on the PS2 for North America? What will be done with customers who only play on the PS2?

no/little profit

[Ophannus]

PS2 players have had about 6 years to upgrade. If you play on PS2(a 13 year old system, it's time to upgrade) -_-

[seya]

well thats a great bs , i understand that cds cant be made but u should give us at least the download choice ... for years now we been complaining about npc stucking , blackouts and freezes and the jp get all the support they need we get nothing i despise playing on pc i do it on ps2 version on ps3 i m seriously disappointed how SE did this ....

[Kunihiro]

well thats a great bs , i understand that cds cant be made but u should give us at least the download choice ... for years now we been complaining about npc stucking , blackouts and freezes and the jp get all the support they need we get nothing i despise playing on pc i do it on ps2 version on ps3 i m seriously disappointed how SE did this ....
Get yourself a usb controller and you'll never notice the difference, besides not getting stuck on npcs, black screens, and freezes, but I guess that's what is so great about ps2.

[seya]

Idk whats the worst SE for ignoring us or the people on this forum for not supporting theyr community , i say once i own a pc version i hate it , i been asking for a ps3 version like a lot people for a long time and yet this forum dont support that as well as far i m concerned you all pc loving people always blame all things wrong on the game on ps2 users , even if they really take ps2 out the picture you probally move to xbox next , seriously u just want a reason to complain ...
This game was coded for ps2 , Se wont change that no mater what

[SpankWustler]

well thats a great bs , i understand that cds cant be made but u should give us at least the download choice ... for years now we been complaining about npc stucking , blackouts and freezes and the jp get all the support they need we get nothing i despise playing on pc i do it on ps2 version on ps3 i m seriously disappointed how SE did this ....

If this helps you or anybody else, it is possible to obtain gamepads very much like PS2 controllers and the most basic one works well for lots of stuff and very cheap (http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-940-000110-Gamepad-F310/dp/B003VAHYQY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340761523&sr=8-1&keywords=computer+gamepad). For ten more bucks, there's a wireless option. (http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-940-000117-Wireless-Gamepad-F710/dp/B0041RR0TW/ref=pd_sim_e_2)

If it's some other part of the "playing stuffs on PC" experience that sucks for you, such as wanting to play on a big TV rather than a small monitor, odds are very good that there's also an affordable way around it. For all the stuff a technology-fearing caveman like me, a guy who actively does not want a facebook account or the ability to check his e-mail with his phone, hates about computers...I like how flexible and cheap a gaming medium a computer can be if a little work is put in.

It's surprising sometimes. This doesn't mean every problem that everybody has with playing on a computer can be fixed, of course, but there are a ton of options for how to play compared to a console.

[Insaniac]

I can't imagine what would cause someone to hate playing on a PC unless they were playing on a pentium II. If you need a controller and a big screen you can pick up everything you need to make that happen while you are buying the expansion for an extra 15-30 dollars. Anyone who doesn't have a PC hooked up to their TV at this point for any of the million other reason besides ffxi should burn their bugle boy jeans, unhook their laser disc player, and join the rest of us in the YEAR TWO-THOUSAND AND TWELVE *echo* *echo* *echo*

[Milva]

It would have been a great opportunity for SE to drop PS2 support and get rid of PS2 limitations alltogether have they not chosen to release new expansion on PS2 JP onry. Instead JP market gets special treatment, everyone else ends up being a second grade category.
It has very little to do with being able to assemble a FFXI-capable PC for $50. JP customers could've done that too, no? Just sucks being treated second-grade customer by Square Enix Co., Ltd.

[Tsuneo]

It would have been a great opportunity for SE to drop PS2 support and get rid of PS2 limitations
It would require SE to do something that they aren't going to do to get rid of limitations, and that something isn't dropping PS2.

[seya]

Se have lot options to give the Na ps2 players the expansion but they choose not to , they could make download content like abyssea , or even PSN because probally most of the NA ps2 players plays on ps3 anyways

[Spiritreaver]

Greetings,

I’d like to take a moment to clarify which platform Seekers of Adoulin will be available on for those that have been asking. We will continue to support North American FINAL FANTASY XI players on the PlayStation 2, Xbox 360 and PC (Windows) platforms. However, FINAL FANTASY XI: Seekers of Adoulin will only be available on the Xbox 360 and Windows platforms in North America when it is released in 2013.

Thanks for the bit of info Bayohne.

I have this followup question though as a FFXI player who utilizes both PC and PS2 platforms: Why did SE decide to even bother with the HDD space increase on PS2s in the NA market in the first place if SoA isn't going to be available for that system?

Personally i wont be effected much by this move, i'll have 2 less instances of FFXI to update in my home. Just trying to get my head around you guys and gals' reasoning here. Despite the the sentiment that is everywhere on this and other FFXI sites, i know plenty of ppl that are solely playing the game on a PS2 or PS2 emulated environment on a PS3. Gonna be sad to see them go when a new expansion hits

Any more info you can share would be great.

[Antanias]

Greetings,

I’d like to take a moment to clarify which platform Seekers of Adoulin will be available on for those that have been asking. We will continue to support North American FINAL FANTASY XI players on the PlayStation 2, Xbox 360 and PC (Windows) platforms. However, FINAL FANTASY XI: Seekers of Adoulin will only be available on the Xbox 360 and Windows platforms in North America when it is released in 2013.
Toga party at my place in 10min, bring the chips!!! :D

[Arcon]

Why did SE decide to even bother with the HDD space increase on PS2s in the NA market in the first place if SoA isn't going to be available for that system?

I'm not entirely sure about this, but wasn't this a global move? Not just for NA? That's how I remembered it.

[Erics]

If this helps you or anybody else, it is possible to obtain gamepads very much like PS2 controllers and the most basic one works well for lots of stuff and very cheap (http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-940-000110-Gamepad-F310/dp/B003VAHYQY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340761523&sr=8-1&keywords=computer+gamepad). For ten more bucks, there's a wireless option. (http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-940-000117-Wireless-Gamepad-F710/dp/B0041RR0TW/ref=pd_sim_e_2)

If it's some other part of the "playing stuffs on PC" experience that sucks for you, such as wanting to play on a big TV rather than a small monitor, odds are very good that there's also an affordable way around it. For all the stuff a technology-fearing caveman like me, a guy who actively does not want a facebook account or the ability to check his e-mail with his phone, hates about computers...I like how flexible and cheap a gaming medium a computer can be if a little work is put in.

It's surprising sometimes. This doesn't mean every problem that everybody has with playing on a computer can be fixed, of course, but there are a ton of options for how to play compared to a console.

Dude.. Ew, no.
Here. (http://www.amazon.com/PS2-USB-Dual-Controller-Adapter-Converter/dp/B000F6BGXY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340772914&sr=8-1&keywords=ps2+pc+adapter) That's what I used when I switched over from PS2 to PC, I still use my PS2 controller. Best. Thing. I. Ever. Did.

[Belmonts]

This is outrageous bs, if they want to remove PS2 out of the scene, then don't do it half f way... I hate when they bring up segregation bs, and giving us the --Japan will get the PS2 expansion, everyone else no--.

If they are pushing/encouraging people into "upgrading" to PC what is many people is celebrating at, then don't give us half bs letting us know that Japanese version of PS2 will carry on, and for the w/e reasons NA version will be not released. Make the whole community change/upgrade to XBOX/PC. Not this uber crap in which Japan gets preference over other players.

My humble opinion.

[SpankWustler]

Dude.. Ew, no.
Here. (http://www.amazon.com/PS2-USB-Dual-Controller-Adapter-Converter/dp/B000F6BGXY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340772914&sr=8-1&keywords=ps2+pc+adapter) That's what I used when I switched over from PS2 to PC, I still use my PS2 controller. Best. Thing. I. Ever. Did.

Given this thingy only costs one cent and has a customer image from a Wild Snorlax, who must have liked it so much that he or she woke up just to take a picture of it, I wholeheartedly agree this is an awesome thingy.

Really drives home the point that there's all kinds of stuff out there for playing games on computers more comfortably and most of it is pretty cheap.

[Spiritreaver]

I'm not entirely sure about this, but wasn't this a global move? Not just for NA? That's how I remembered it.

Exactly, it was a global move. I'm just wondering why bother updating the NA PS2s at all. If they are going to withhold SoA from the NA PS2 market, why prep that market to begin with?

PS2 version is working fine(or as fine as it has for the last few years anyways) without the recent change. That could have been easily withheld as well.

Simple question that i hope the community reps have further info they can share with us.

[Arcon]

The way I see it they did what they did because it was the most profitable course of action. The number of PS2 users in Japan is likely a lot higher than in the NA region, and I think it'll eventually disappear as well. And the number of PS2 users in NA is likely not high enough to warrant distributing the game all across the continent.

As for their recent hard drive related efforts, what I meant by global is that they didn't care for NA individually, but that they just did it for the "PS2", independent of region. The NA PS2s being dragged into it may be a mere consequence of that fact. But that was just my assumption, I'm not good at politics and policies in that regard to know for a fact.

[Dsherman]

Greetings,

I’d like to take a moment to clarify which platform Seekers of Adoulin will be available on for those that have been asking. We will continue to support North American FINAL FANTASY XI players on the PlayStation 2, Xbox 360 and PC (Windows) platforms. However, FINAL FANTASY XI: Seekers of Adoulin will only be available on the Xbox 360 and Windows platforms in North America when it is released in 2013.

I am disappointed to see this, but I think I understand it.

Most likely, the porting of the Japanese version of each platform to the NA version of each platform is a separate process for each platform. The cost of doing that port for the Playstation 2 plus the cost and other factors involved with distribution of that disc after it's been made to North American Players is just too high for the quantity of players that will actually want to use it.

There are a LOT more Japanese players still playing the PS2 version than there are NA players on the PS2 version. Japanese players like playing on consoles. NA players tend to play on PC much more. That's not to say there are no PS2 players in North America. They do exist. But SE now believes the quantity of them is now low enough to not be worth the cost of porting and distribution of a new title for Playstation 2. (And Sony may not want them to either.)

I see it as a business decision. If it costs more to make and distribute that disc than the amount of revenue they can earn from those players, it's best to just let it go. They also do know that many of those players will get either a PC or Xbox 360 version somewhere along the line, so they won't lose all of them as customers. They will likely lose a few. SE doesn't think it's enough to be a problem.

I do believe it has nothing to do with "PS2 Limitations" or trying to get rid of them.

[Spiritreaver]

The way I see it they did what they did because it was the most profitable course of action. The number of PS2 users in Japan is likely a lot higher than in the NA region, and I think it'll eventually disappear as well. And the number of PS2 users in NA is likely not high enough to warrant distributing the game all across the continent.

As for their recent hard drive related efforts, what I meant by global is that they didn't care for NA individually, but that they just did it for the "PS2", independent of region. The NA PS2s being dragged into it may be a mere consequence of that fact. But that was just my assumption, I'm not good at politics and policies in that regard to know for a fact.

Again, all of that is why i'm asking. Them. As in a SE community rep, who will possible have more than an opinion that can be shared with us.

I mean its in the TOS that we agree to every time we log on that 'SE can do whatever SE want' and i'm good with that. I'd just like a little more info. Don't see anything puzzling or out of the question in that.

[Infidi]

Don't they still sell ps2 games consoles and the hdd in Japan ? Makes sense they would get on ps2 also. Big box retailers most likely don't have shelf space/ dont want ps2 games in NA anymore. SE probably thinks it Wouldnt make sense to just sell the ps2 disc version in online stores.

[bungiefanNA]

Thanks for the bit of info Bayohne.

I have this followup question though as a FFXI player who utilizes both PC and PS2 platforms: Why did SE decide to even bother with the HDD space increase on PS2s in the NA market in the first place if SoA isn't going to be available for that system?

Personally i wont be effected much by this move, i'll have 2 less instances of FFXI to update in my home. Just trying to get my head around you guys and gals' reasoning here. Despite the the sentiment that is everywhere on this and other FFXI sites, i know plenty of ppl that are solely playing the game on a PS2 or PS2 emulated environment on a PS3. Gonna be sad to see them go when a new expansion hits

Any more info you can share would be great.

Probably because the core program is the same, just the language files vary, so they tend to have to do the same updates to the shared files between the NA and JP versions. Remember, there are seperate DATs for JP and EN/DE/FR text in the game, for items and NPCs and menus. Everything else tends to be the same files.


Don't they still sell ps2 games consoles and the hdd in Japan ? Makes sense they would get on ps2 also. Big box retailers most likely don't have shelf space/ dont want ps2 games in NA anymore. SE probably thinks it Wouldnt make sense to just sell the ps2 disc version in online stores.

HDDs yes, non-slim PS2 no. Model 50000 new PS2s were finally removed from Sony's online shop in Japan in 2010 or 2009. However, Japan has an impressive used product market, electronics there tend to last a long time and be well taken care of, same with some other products. SO it shouldn't be too hard for someone to dig up a PS2 there. Also, AFAIK, computers are comparitively expensive there, as well as software like Windows, so consoles are the preferred gaming system.

As for why someone would detest playing on a PC compared to a game console, besides lack of a controller (USB solves this), or a large screen like a TV (HDMI solves this, which most graphics cards have, and most HDTVs have standard monitor plugins too and are really just computer monitors with more inputs and lower pixels per inch), the answer is the support software you have running in the background. You have driver issues, antivirus and firewall software conflicts, background programs popping up or crashing, etc. Consoles tend to not have that and only run one program at a time, though the current generation has kind of changed that with the dashboard you can call up at any time.

I have spent more time on PC troubleshooting issues that cause FFXI to not run or not run well than I ever have on PS2. SE even broke support for my graphics card on my last computer with the release of WotG, so I went back to PS2 for a long while. They told me to use a driver from 2004 for a card from 2007, and it only gave me a running rate of 12 FPS when it used to do 30 before the expansion.

There's also the matter that my PC tends to get purposed for work projects, and I can't shut off all the other programs that are in use when I'm gaming. I can't afford both a home server and a gaming machine, so my machine does double duty.

[Jackstin]

I realise it sucks that they're not releasing the new expansion on PS2 but they're not dropping support! You can still play the game, just not the new stuff starting next year. That gives you 6 months to save up and buy an Xbox 360 which will give you the same gaming experience as the PS2. You can get one for less than a hundred dollars now. I think its more of a shame they didn't drop PS2 support in Japan as well, that way its possible the new expansion could have been slightly prettier.

[Arcon]

That gives you 6 months to save up and buy an Xbox 360 which will give you the same a better gaming experience as the PS2.

Fixed that for you. Still not as good as the PC, but it's a start.

[Randwolf]

That's funny. "Up yours, Americans! We'll keep supporting PS2, we'll keep the limitations that ruin the game overall, we'll make a JP PS2 version, BUT, the rest of the world can suck it."

I don't play on my PS2, anymore. So, personally, I don't care. But, to make the version for one region in exclusion of others shows an incredible bias that is worse than any biased thing S/E has done to date. I know WoW ended up excluding people's systems that were archaic. But, I'm pretty certain that was a universal move, not aimed at a region. Or, is WoW a U.S. only game (sorry, I don't play it). Anyway, you probably didn't exclude a huge portion of your market. But, you did do so in a regionally biased way.

p.s. - Just to clarify. Since I started playing this game with the PS2 release, there has always been accusations of JP favoritism. Some of the things people pointed to seemed pretty sketchy. But, I wouldn't say they proved their case. I'm going to have to say, though, and although it may be a good short term financial decision, this move by S/E does seem to lock-down the notion that the US players (and other non-JP players) fall into a second class category.

[SpankWustler]

I'm sure the call made about the North American PS2 version is a good financial call for SquareEnix. That is why somebody made the call. I can understand that. Why release a product to an area with a highly limited market for that product?

Still, from my standpoint, I'd rather somebody poop or get off the toilet. That bro is just sitting there reading the paper, pushing out nary a thing, and I need to shower soon.

I have come to know it is a rare occasion when the Development Bros have the time and will and resources to do things that are not running around naked or painstakingly converting an old server into a working flamethrower. I severely doubt they could and would actually work on something as complex as adding more inventory space or creating new subligaria with lumpy and disturbing fabric effects.

Still, dropping PS2 support entirely might make such things possible if the Development Bros ever did have the time and will and resources to do such things. It would give me a feeling of optimism knowing that such things were possible, at least.

Conversely, I wonder how big a deal selling a North American PS2 version through only a few major North American online retailers would be. Or even the FFXI bit of the company's own online store. Or just selling it via (horribly long) download with no disc at all. Just making the thing may be a bigger deal than I'm imagining, and I'm sure any distribution model is more complex than I'm imagining, but I still wonder.

Much like dropping a two-hour deuce when I just need to wash under my fat rolls for fifteen minutes so I can go out, this course of action seems to both show and garner the least amount of good will possible while not actually doing anything wrong.

I don't know. This has been a pretty awful post because it's hard to put my really, really bland thoughts into any words other than, "Doesn't bother me, bro, but could have done better." I can't even work let loose with a good schizotypal hullabaloo over this, and those come more naturally to me than they probably should.


Or, is WoW a U.S. only game

Just in case this adds anything to the conversation:

What I gather is that World of Warcraft been released in most of Europe, Brazil, and obviously South Korea. It even has an official Chinese release that has some oddities due to some nations being weird about video-games. A friend of mine is really fond of killing imaginary stuff with Australians instead of sleeping, so I assume it's there too.

[Vivivivi]

Web developers and designers face a similar problem when it comes to supporting older browsers. It sounds like SE is taking the correct approach (in my opinion), by not disabling NA/EU players access to the game entirely, but at the same time moving forward with what I can only imagine is the vast majority of the player base. If you fire up a lot of popular websites in Internet Explorer 6, many of them will still work, but newer features like HTML5/CSS3 will only work for users on modern browsers.

I sympathize with the NA/EU players on PS2 who would like to see this expansion, but I can only imagine the return on investment wouldn't be profitable to create this for the PS2, localized, and boxed, and officially supported.

[RagingAvatar]

I would really like to hear a reason from Square-Enix rather than our speculation (that's not my way of saying 'SHUT UP COMMUNITY' - but you know what I mean, I'd like an official response.)

There really is no reason in my mind for not providing this content as a download for PS2 users.

EDIT: Especially given that PS2 users will have to receive the new equipment data for players or we won't be able to even see players with new expansion content(!). Again I say, there is really no reason for this not to be available as a download like Abyssea.

[FrankReynolds]

I think it's a good way to see how many of these hard core PS2 onry players will really cancel their accounts if PS2 support is dropped. If most of them go out and buy a 360, or swap to PC, then maybe they can consider doing the same thing in Japan. If they actually cancel, then we know why SE has to keep PS2 support.

[SleepStudy]

Im pretty sure the biggest reason is b/c the PS2 community is still thriving in japan, whereas in the states (and I assume Canada) the only place you are really finding PS2 games are in the dollar bin at used game stores, flea markets, and garage sales. It doesn't make sense to put all the effort into manufacturing a hard copy of the game if you have no real place to sell it. Now, as to why they don't make it a digital download? No clue.

[LittleXT]

Greetings,

I’d like to take a moment to clarify which platform Seekers of Adoulin will be available on for those that have been asking. We will continue to support North American FINAL FANTASY XI players on the PlayStation 2, Xbox 360 and PC (Windows) platforms. However, FINAL FANTASY XI: Seekers of Adoulin will only be available on the Xbox 360 and Windows platforms in North America when it is released in 2013.

Best birthday present - EVER

[Ang]

ive gotta say im really disappointed in SE over this....i have been playing FFXI on ps2 for almost 10 years now. Ive never cheated, used third party tools, always made payments on time, never switched to WoW when it blew up, never had a GM called on me among other things and this is the thanks us ps2 users get? Why shouldnt we get to enjoy the new content...we who never cheated, we who never bogged the servers down with third party tools...Come on SE dont discriminate...alot of people still play on ps2. We put up with enough with all the npc freeze, blackscreen stuff that has yet to be fixed. Please find a way to let ps2 users enjoy this new expansion.

[madrileno23]

Why play on a monitor? I have my desktop hooked up to a 42" HDTV with HDMI.

I concur,
I am playing on a 55" Samsung LED TV hooked up to my gaming comp. FFXI has never looked better.
Ofcourse, I'm running it rendered at 3840x2160 in 1920x1080 resolution monitor so I am getting 2x Supersampling.
Looks fantastic though, and I love sitting 8-10 ft away on my couch and being able to read everything clear on a large TV.

[Eric]

What SE failed to mention at VanaFest was that instead of MP, Rune Fencer and Geomancer's spells will be cast using the tears of PS2 players.

[Sephoroth]

PC > all.. I have PS2 and it sucks... Don't know why anyone would even care that its FINALLY not being dragged into things it cant handle properly anymore... You can find a torrent online pretty easily for the PC install, and there are drivers for the PS3 controller to USB OR Bluetooth into your PC... Hands down the PC wins, IF i ever was to install FFXI on a FailBox it would strictly be for the Achievment Points, other than that i see no reason to play on that system either... http://www.tigerdirect.com or http://www.tigerdirect.ca depending where you live, can find pretty cheap system to run FFXI... and this http://dl.qj.net/dl.php?fid=113518&new=1 is a basic driver for the PS3 controller.. Plug in the controller, run the exe, and push the PS button and your done! I could link the torrents to but I doubt SE would like that.. Anywho problem solved..

[Zumi]

My question is why not release a downloadable version of the expansion for PS2. That way people can still play on their PS2. SE will have to make all the dat files for US PS2 anyway because they are still supporting it, all the armor and graphics will have to be made for PS2. Especially since the JPs get the PS2 version.

[Aldersyde]

I have to say, I'm disappointed in SE's decision, moreso because it seems to be regionally discriminatory. Now before someone assumes that I just prefer to dwell in the technological dark ages, this isn't the case whatsoever. I started using the the PC version about a year and half ago but I kept my PS2 so that my son could play with me as well. It is also used as a dual box character. This decision has me considering whether I should continue to keep playing at all after I finish what I want to finish (or whether I should even finish it all). Maybe I've spoiled myself by dualboxing but I am never going to a style of play where I only use one character. Dualboxing is just too convenient to give up. At the same time, I'm not buying another pc or laptop just to play one game. I remember before FFXIV crashed and burned, people on forums laughed at the very notion of others buying the ps3 for the sole purpose of playing one game and I can't help but agree with the sentiment. My PC is relatively new and there's no reason at this time to buy another, it does everything I need it to do. I don't play other pc games either. Buying a second for the sole purpose of playing FFXI is totally superfluous.

Xbox 360 could offer more utility in that I could play other games but I already own a ps3. Additionally, I feel that Xbox 360 is an inferior product, as I've known so many friends and acquaintances who have had them crap out on them in less than year or two while my own (and a good number of friends') PS2 keeps chugging and grinding along after nearly 10 years like a stubborn old ox. Complaints from people that I know who play FFXI on it concerning d/cs and blackscreens make me feel it's a worse experience than the ps2 version. Needless to say, I'm not going to buy an Xbox 360 either.

SE (and other players) need to realize that this decision will not only affect ps2 players. This game is supposed to be about social contact and friends. One player quitting, for whatever reason, has an impact on a number of others. If Person A decides to quit because they can't enjoy the new expansion that may induce Person B and C to quit as well, because the game isn't as fun without Person A, expansion or no expansion. When Person B and C quit, that gets others thinking as to whether the game is as fun and worth playing without B and C. And so on, and so on. People cheering this decision are extremely short sighted at best.

And I don`t know where people are getting their information about player numbers concerning the amount of players on each console. I haven't seen any recent official comment from SE concerning FFXI`s official population, let alone how they break down by platform. Most estimates on population size are inferred by FFXIAH or from eyeballing server populations, so If there's any actual hard information on the matter, I`d like to see someone provide a link. Unless I just have a very unique network of friends, I have a feeling people are badly underestimating the amount of ps2 players there actually is.

I haven't really made a decision on whether I want to stick around yet. I thought the information concerning the expansion was kind of lackluster (mainly because I can't get excited about two mage jobs that I ultimately believe are going to be redundant and unnecessary as far as roles go), so SE is going to have to really wow me with other facets of the expansion's game play in the coming months to convince me to go without my second character in expansion areas. It's pretty vague on how retaking the land and private islands will play out but personally, for me, if I wanted to play farmville, i'd go play farmville.

I hope SE seriously considers a downloadable version for ps2. I can understand if they don't want to distribute physical copies over a wide NA market but there's really no reason not to provide a downloadable one through Playonline.

[tyrantsyn]

For all of those curious about why they drop support, try and remember they did a survey and ppl are constantly calling for the axe on the PS2 here on the forum's. It's not hard to figure out why. 360 with 20 to 120 HD are pretty cheap these days not to mention labtop's and desktop's a few year's old that are more than capable of running the game. Save your penny's and upgrade already. I'll come over latter and help you out back to put your PS2 down.

[Randwolf]

Best birthday present - EVER


For all of those curious about why they drop support, try and remember they did a survey and ppl are constantly calling for the axe on the PS2 here on the forum's. It's not hard to figure out why. 360 with 20 to 120 HD are pretty cheap these days not to mention labtop's and desktop's a few year's old that are more than capable of running the game. Save your penny's and upgrade already. I'll come over latter and help you out back to put your PS2 down.
Somehow, a lot of people seem to be missing the fact that as long as the game supports PS2 IN ANY REGION nothing changes. All those complaints revolving around the PS2 would require support for PS2 to go away everywhere. Otherwise, all platforms will have to more or less conform to the PS2 limitations. Unless, S/E can and will let the PS2 have things like less item slots, and, I can't see that happening, we will all continue to be weighed down by the PS2. No one gained anything from a JP Only version of the expansion.

[Zerich]

Somehow, a lot of people seem to be missing the fact that as long as the game supports PS2 IN ANY REGION nothing changes. All those complaints revolving around the PS2 would require support for PS2 to go away everywhere. Otherwise, all platforms will have to more or less conform to the PS2 limitations. Unless, S/E can and will let the PS2 have things like less item slots, and, I can't see that happening, we will all continue to be weighed down by the PS2. No one gained anything from a JP Only version of the expansion.

silly NA/EU players, JP ps2's are transformers

[Arcon]

Somehow, a lot of people seem to be missing the fact that as long as the game supports PS2 IN ANY REGION nothing changes.

And this is a first step in that direction. Hence all this joy. A few years ago they wouldn't have thought about axing PS2 users in other regions either. This pretty much confirms that it's on their to-do list. Just need to wait for the remaining Japanese PS2 players to disappear, and hopefully this will extend to them as well. One can only hope they take a hint from this and switch to PC or the 360 sooner rather than later, to make this entire procedure go over quickly and painlessly.

[RagingAvatar]

I still want a PS2 download of the expansion and I've yet to hear a good reason why we can't have a download version made available through PlayOnline like the Abyssea expansions.

[SpankWustler]

Just need to wait for the remaining Japanese PS2 players to disappear, and hopefully this will extend to them as well. One can only hope they take a hint from this and switch to PC or the 360 sooner rather than later, to make this entire procedure go over quickly and painlessly.

I feel like there's a simple solution hidden somewhere in this post...

...maybe...

http://www.nerdlocker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/hitman.jpg

[Randwolf]

And this is a first step in that direction. Hence all this joy. A few years ago they wouldn't have thought about axing PS2 users in other regions either. This pretty much confirms that it's on their to-do list. Just need to wait for the remaining Japanese PS2 players to disappear, and hopefully this will extend to them as well. One can only hope they take a hint from this and switch to PC or the 360 sooner rather than later, to make this entire procedure go over quickly and painlessly.
That's a pleasant thought. And, I hope it's true. We're way beyond the time that people should be off the PS2. However, excluding the other regions from future PS2 content may be as far as this goes. Remember, we're talking about an expansion that is quite a ways off. If they were going to rip the PS2 band-aid off, doing it for all regions during this expansion would have been the perfect time to do it, giving all PS2 players plenty of time to shift to a new system. I see this as more of a "we really can't care any less about the non-Japanese players" rather than "we're moving away from PS2."

[Aldersyde]

I see this as more of a "we really can't care any less about the non-Japanese players" rather than "we're moving away from PS2."

That's how I see it. In isolation, I might be convinced that it's a ps2 issue but given that SE tried to enact preferential tendencies in fee payment for Japanese players not less than a year ago (which they have since had to back away from), I'm sensing a "screw you" vibe in this decision. Not a good move when the whole relaunching of FFXIV is going to hinge on people who didn't see how bad FFXIV really was, a la the console player, buying it for the ps3. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional; the game's already been more or less written off by the vast majority of PC players.

I'll certainly remember the slight the next time I have a choice of games to pick from.

[Nakts]

That's how I see it. In isolation, I might be convinced that it's a ps2 issue but given that SE tried to enact preferential tendencies in fee payment for Japanese players not less than year ago (which they have since had to back away from), I'm sensing a "screw you" vibe in this decision. Not a good move when the whole relaunching of FFXIV is going to hinge on people who didn't see how bad FFXIV really was, a la the console player, buying it for the ps3. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional; the game's already been more or less written off by the vast majority of PC players.

I'll certainly remember the slight the next time I have a choice of games to pick from.

The irony here is that this is the very same reason a lot of older fans wont be touching PSO2, the people in charge treated EU/NA like, I can't even say second class, it was worse than that during the life of PSU.

[Juilan]

I'm shocked PS2 still works, between me and my cousin we have like 15 dead ones being used as paper weights and book ends, it's not worth the cost to replace the board or disk drive to get them working again. I can up-sample the games on my mac to 1080i and a USB device to transfer the memory cards are 20$... on my mac I can play any PS2 game on my 52 inch tv and do web browsing without an issue or even play a game on dolphin on a sperate screen without issue. Granted this is a 800$ computer... 80$ (about the cost of a used PS2) can get you a computer with windows installed and an ethernet and graphics card that will play FFXI at any pre-built place.

On a side note, I have a friend who's been dumpster diving at best buy and he's built two computers that would play FFXI that way.

[Kuvo]

So a quick story that probably doesn't matter too much to anyone but a few years back (5-6yrs maybe) i had a business meeting in northern japan. A co worker that i was staying with for the few days had a PS2 but it had a ton of things attached to it that i have never seen in the states before. Large hard drive much larger then what is available here and it actually had HDMI port on the back but he told me it doesn't cast in HD at 1080p but it looks much better then the ones in the states. Also as we were walking down town and in the gaming district, which was funny to me that there actually was an area that had a ton of shops revolved around games, comics, anime, and so on. We found that the major gaming machines is still the PS2. Now that being said I haven't been there since then and could be wrong now but they do have a much higher player base and a much larger supply of upgradeables available to them for the PS2 so it doesn't surprise me that they kept the support there.

And to the PS2 users here, yes i loved the ps2 very much but it may be time to let it go. Either way there will always be elements out there that we don't want to get rid of but it is time. Just like the RDM job in XI, i say RIP PS2. Sorry folks.

[Jackstin]

And if they can make the game more cost effective its more likely to keep going and keep being supported generally.

[Granny]

who cares what platform it will be on, by the time it comes out the game will be dead. this is far too little too late for ffxi at this point.

[RagingAvatar]

No it's not! Far from it! I still love this game - I'm looking forward to what I expect to be a pretty hardcore expansion aimed level 99 players - hopefully with some fun content for new players too.

This game has a lot of life left in it. Grounds of Valor particularly has done a good job at getting people back into grouping in low level areas.

[Ritsuka]

Using a tv as a monitor wares ou the tv alot faster.

[Akutenshi]

People are failing to realize that JP PS2 support and games have just started to decline in the last few years, but not enough to stop them from warranting an expansion for the Japanese. There is still money to be made in Japan so that is why they do it. It's not that they are doing it to be vindictive for NA players. People that think that are just being silly. Japan is like the third or fourth in the amount of users that access the internet. Most people access the internet through mobile phones or PC's. Japanese pretty much only use PC's for school, information, and storing digital pictures. Barely anyone uses PC's for gaming, it's just not part of their culture.

A good amount of Japanese are taught English and they can play western PC games, but if you ever have been to Japan or know lots of Japanese, them playing games such as Mass Effect or new released PC games from big western companies is very rare. I still have many Japanese friends from my time there and we play Diablo 3 together, but besides big named games like that people don't play on PC's very much.

Consoles have been a big part of Japanese culture and will continue to be. There are tons of anime games and stories were still being released for JP PS2 recently and NA releases would never see the light of day. They sell in Japan and don't in the states. That's the bottom line. To take a chance and hope NA players update their hard drives to play an new expansion is a big risk. Anyone can see that. Yeah, it sucks for people that still play on PS2s, but serious Japanese have already done so already so it wouldn't be a big risk in Japan. If you didn't know, there are numerous Japanese games for PS2 with the option to load data on to the hard drives for faster loading. Most Japaneses updated their PS2's solely for this reason years ago.

Instead of localizing the new expansion for PS2, I would much rather have them spend those resources and time on the game itself to make it better. I can still hook up my PS2 and play FFXI, but I don't. I have a much better experience on PC and my Xbox. I have monster component cables for my PS2 to make the graphics look almost as good as my xbox, but honestly people just need to get with the times. At least they did not drop the support completely be thankful for that.

I feel for people that their only means is to play on PS2, but honestly, if you need your car to drive to work and it craps the bed, you either find other means to get to work or get a new car. Especially if you have an old clunker and it isn't worth investing more money into.

[Joslyn]

And yet if it wasn't coming out for PC many NA players would be in an uproar saying that its not fair that its only coming out for ps2 and xbox...Look the fact of the matter is we don't know if they are doing a downloadable version or not. It's all speculation at this point, they are releasing it only in Japan as a disc format because of the support they have for their consoles, ppl in america have no Idea what its like to live in an area were space is very limited, why do you think the original xbox failed so bad there. I personally prefer to play on console not because its better but to me pc runs to slow, and even when I resize everything I still have frame rate issues( cant get any higher then 10 fps and I have enough pc to run WoW flawlessly)If I truly wanted to play for graphics I'd get FFXIV or Rift but that's not why I play this MMO. I'm not saying they won't ever get rid Of ps2 support but by the time they do the game will be dead and ppl will move on to other MMO's, look at what happened to the original EQ, or UO for that matter, everything dies off after time or ppl get tired of the same crap over and over again. Would i love it to see them re tool the code and make the game better? Yes but that won't happen just like a remake of VII won't happen till just everyone just completely stops playing. If they truly did Optimize it for pc when it came out and only made it for pc then yes I would play it on pc but I cant bring myself to play it when I have less issues on console(even since I switched to 360) and futher more I think people forget that this is a Japanese based company and not an american one, they have a different look on how they handle game content, or for that matter if and when they decide if they want to re-release something.

And besides its still a year away, they might change their mind.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

And yet if it wasn't coming out for PC many NA players would be in an uproar saying that its not fair that its only coming out for ps2 and xbox...

Well duh, a lot more people play it on PC in NA and EU than they do on PS2/3 and XBOX 360.

[Joslyn]

Well duh, a lot more people play it on PC in NA and EU than they do on PS2/3 and XBOX 360.

But that shouldn't mean people who still wish to play on a console should be excluded, thats like saying you cant have the new IOS for your Iphone cause you have a Iphone 4 and not the 4S, look the game is old and on its last legs they could probably keep it going for another 5 years but after this exp i think they will start to wind down and cut back on everything including updates and have people move on to FFXIV or even another game or even make it free to play and that might send even more people away, they should release it to be fair, hell they don't even have to make it availible in a physical store I would be willing to buy it direct from the website so that way they can keep the cost down from producing a bunch that won't sell.

[Llana_Virren]

And yet if it wasn't coming out for PC many NA players would be in an uproar saying that its not fair that its only coming out for ps2 and xbox...

However, since PC > console (at least PC > a decade old piece of crap) they're gonna start dropping PS2. You can still play FFXI on PS2. You just can't slow down progress or hurt the capabilities of yet another expansion by playing on PS2.

Don't worry, JP PS2 support isn't going to last forever either; but in Japan they can do a lot more for PS2 (such as HDD) without having to go through Sony, which means, better cost : profit. It all comes down to cost : profit.

[FrankReynolds]

Using a tv as a monitor wares ou the tv alot faster.

LOL you have a regular old Tube TV still?

[Joslyn]

However, since PC > console (at least PC > a decade old piece of crap) they're gonna start dropping PS2. You can still play FFXI on PS2. You just can't slow down progress or hurt the capabilities of yet another expansion by playing on PS2.

Don't worry, JP PS2 support isn't going to last forever either; but in Japan they can do a lot more for PS2 (such as HDD) without having to go through Sony, which means, better cost : profit. It all comes down to cost : profit.

But if its all about profit then FFXIV would not be around, profit is not always the reason to keep something going, and you only make a profit after you make back what you spent in the first place to make said product, even with the declining player base for this game there is still enough ppl that play it to make it profitable since it uses 10+ year old tech, and for that matter they could have updated the game to play and run on current pc's without the hick-ups it has but they choose not too

[Aldersyde]

However, since PC > console (at least PC > a decade old piece of crap) they're gonna start dropping PS2. You can still play FFXI on PS2. You just can't slow down progress or hurt the capabilities of yet another expansion by playing on PS2.

What are you taking about? You do know that they are making it for the JP PS2 right? That means that there's going to be the whatever inherent limitations you think there are going to be with this expansion as if they had released it for the NA PS2 because they still have to code a PS2 version. All SE is doing is pissing off a section of their playerbase for no good reason at a time when they're console games aren't exactly gangbusters in the NA market (FFXIII-2 was a pretty mediocore performer compared to other FFs). Great plan. Are you sure that profit is their primary motivator because from a business standpoint, this is an incredibly stupid decision. When you're selling an already pretty niche product, it's stupid to alienate ANY portion of your clientele, especially when part of the enjoyment of the game comes social relationships formed within the virtual world SE has created. But hey, I guess people just don't understand this concept of interconnectedness. I've already explained it once and won't explain it again.

There's absolutely no reason not to offer the expansion as a digital download; it's not like PS2 players aren't used to long download times. It may be laziness but it sure looks from a NA perspective as regional discrimination. I think SE are a little complacent and under the impression that their flagship FF games are still must play games in NA. I'm here to assure them that they're not. You can go to most gaming forums discussing the franchise and find this to be true.

Stop pissing off your customers.

[Zerich]

And yet if it wasn't coming out for PC many NA players would be in an uproar saying that its not fair that its only coming out for ps2 and xbox...Look the fact of the matter is we don't know if they are doing a downloadable version or not. It's all speculation at this point, they are releasing it only in Japan as a disc format because of the support they have for their consoles, ppl in america have no Idea what its like to live in an area were space is very limited, why do you think the original xbox failed so bad there. I personally prefer to play on console not because its better but to me pc runs to slow, and even when I resize everything I still have frame rate issues( cant get any higher then 10 fps and I have enough pc to run WoW flawlessly)If I truly wanted to play for graphics I'd get FFXIV or Rift but that's not why I play this MMO. I'm not saying they won't ever get rid Of ps2 support but by the time they do the game will be dead and ppl will move on to other MMO's, look at what happened to the original EQ, or UO for that matter, everything dies off after time or ppl get tired of the same crap over and over again. Would i love it to see them re tool the code and make the game better? Yes but that won't happen just like a remake of VII won't happen till just everyone just completely stops playing. If they truly did Optimize it for pc when it came out and only made it for pc then yes I would play it on pc but I cant bring myself to play it when I have less issues on console(even since I switched to 360) and futher more I think people forget that this is a Japanese based company and not an american one, they have a different look on how they handle game content, or for that matter if and when they decide if they want to re-release something.

And besides its still a year away, they might change their mind.

it's an MMO...ppl play MMO's on PCs...deal with it

[bungiefanNA]

Using a tv as a monitor wares ou the tv alot faster.

No it doesn't, considering HDTVs are computer monitors, just with a channel tuner and a couple more video inputs. Some screen technologies have been susceptible to burn-in, but that's fairly rare nowadays. LCD and LED screens can't suffer burn-in.

[Llana_Virren]

What are you taking about? You do know that they are making it for the JP PS2 right? That means that there's going to be the whatever inherent limitations you think there are going to be with this expansion as if they had released it for the NA PS2 because they still have to code a PS2 version. All SE is doing is pissing off a section of their playerbase for no good reason at a time when they're console games aren't exactly gangbusters in the NA market (FFXIII-2 was a pretty mediocore performer compared to other FFs). Great plan. Are you sure that profit is their primary motivator because from a business standpoint, this is an incredibly stupid decision. When you're selling an already pretty niche product, it's stupid to alienate ANY portion of your clientele, especially when part of the enjoyment of the game comes social relationships formed within the virtual world SE has created. But hey, I guess people just don't understand this concept of interconnectedness. I've already explained it once and won't explain it again.

There's absolutely no reason not to offer the expansion as a digital download; it's not like PS2 players aren't used to long download times. It may be laziness but it sure looks from a NA perspective as regional discrimination. I think SE are a little complacent and under the impression that their flagship FF games are still must play games in NA. I'm here to assure them that they're not. You can go to most gaming forums discussing the franchise and find this to be true.

Stop pissing off your customers.

Yes, and I consider this a step towards that final goal of no more PS2. Even if this dream never comes to fruition, knowing that there are fewer retarded NA players on PS2 makes me happy.

I know this comes off rather trollish, and I apologize, but my god, NA players have complained the most in 10 years about how they "deserve more from SE."

[Aldersyde]

Yes, and I consider this a step towards that final goal of no more PS2. Even if this dream never comes to fruition, knowing that there are fewer retarded NA players on PS2 makes me happy.

I know this comes off rather trollish, and I apologize, but my god, NA players have complained the most in 10 years about how they "deserve more from SE."

If you think SE will cut off its JP PS2 player base, you are stupid or delusional and likely both, but more probably just stupid. It makes me happy to know that you are wrong, wrong, wrong and that you chase a fruitless dream. JP PS2 support will continue past 2015 or 16 when Sony decides they're not going to support the platform at all. SE doesn't have the cahones to do otherwise.

And I have no idea what you're saying yes to. Try to work on your specificity and answer in complete sentences. See, I can be trollish too!

[Llana_Virren]

If you think SE will cut off its JP PS2 player base, you are stupid or delusional and likely both, but more probably just stupid. It makes me happy to know that you are wrong, wrong, wrong and that you chase a fruitless dream. JP PS2 support will continue past 2015 or 16 when Sony decides they're not going to support the platform at all. SE doesn't have the cahones to do otherwise.

^and this is exactly why I'm glad NAs can't PS2 in the expansion. Thank you for ignoring the actual message and being butthurt. I appreciate it.

[Aldersyde]

^and this is exactly why I'm glad NAs can't PS2 in the expansion. Thank you for ignoring the actual message and being butthurt. I appreciate it.

Brah, I play on PC and keep another account on my old ass PS2. But if you would had read the entire thread, you'd know that. Thanks for coming out!

Your post had an actual message? I interpreted it as "I hate PS2" and just kinda zoned out.Sorry, when I get bored, I make up my own stories.

[Llana_Virren]

Brah, I play on PC and keep another account on my old ass PS2. But if you would had read the entire thread, you'd know that. Thanks for coming out!

Your post had an actual message? I interpreted it as "I hate PS2" and just kinda zoned out.Sorry, when I get bored, I make up my own stories.

I don't hate PS2 at all... I just get sick and tired of players thinking that it's somehow "unfair" that PS2 isn't going to be maintained forever. It's old technology, plain and simple. That's why I stopped playing on PS2 back in 2004.

[Aldersyde]

I don't hate PS2 at all... I just get sick and tired of players thinking that it's somehow "unfair" that PS2 isn't going to be maintained forever. It's old technology, plain and simple. That's why I stopped playing on PS2 back in 2004.

But JP PS2 will likely be continued "for ever", because PC gaming just doesn't seem as big as console gaming in Japan. So the only thing you're really supporting is regional discrimination. If someone can prove me wrong on console vs. PC numbers, than do so, because I don't think any of you can.

[Jackstin]

But JP PS2 will likely be continued "for ever", because PC gaming just doesn't seem as big as console gaming in Japan. So the only thing you're really supporting is regional discrimination. If someone can prove me wrong on console vs. PC numbers, than do so, because I don't think any of you can.

Discrimination is a very VERY strong word for what is going on here. Sony didn't release the HDD for PS2. Ooh its regional discrimination. Final Fantasy XIII was released a few months later in the west, OOH its regional discrimination. This is why people are calling you 'butt hurt' (although I hate that term); because you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

You are right, there are lots of JP PS2 players so it would be unfair to drop PS2 support and ask them to upgrade. In the West hardly anyone plays on PS2. A lot of those who do only do so on PS3. And here's the important thing. You can still play this game on your PS2/3 just not the new expansion. Its unreasonable to ask SE to release this expansion on another platform just for you and a couple of your friends who like to dual box. I think you are all underestimating how much that costs.

[Aldersyde]

You are right, there are lots of JP PS2 players so it would be unfair to drop PS2 support and ask them to upgrade. In the West hardly anyone plays on PS2. A lot of those who do only do so on PS3.

Christ almighty, PROVE THIS. Is a little empirical evidence too much ask? I don't give shit about your opinion, gut feeling or so-called educated guesses. Shit or get off the pot. When you do I'll shut up and let you go back to your totally irrational belief that by eliminating PS2 support, SE will somehow find the will and resources to vastly improve this game's player experience.

I'm not "butthurt" about anything. I play on PC for Christsakes. I may even convince myself to play the expansion without my PS2 dualbox character if SE convinces me its cool enough. When did elementary reading comprehension and following a conversation go from being a basic skill to a lost f*%king art?

[Llana_Virren]

Christ almighty, PROVE THIS. Is a little empirical evidence too much ask? I don't give shit about your opinion, gut feeling or so-called educated guesses. Shit or get off the pot. When you do I'll shut up and let you go back to your totally irrational belief that by eliminating PS2 support, SE will somehow find the will and resources to vastly improve this game's player experience.

I'm not "butthurt" about anything. I play on PC for Christsakes. I may even convince myself to play the expansion without my PS2 dualbox character if SE convinces me its cool enough. When did elementary reading comprehension and following a conversation go from being a basic skill to a lost f*%king art?

SE already proved it via their actions. SE is a business. Businesses do what is most economic. If there was enough of a player base on PS2 in NA, they'd still be getting support.

[Aldersyde]

SE already proved it via their actions. SE is a business. Businesses do what is most economic. If there was enough of a player base on PS2 in NA, they'd still be getting support.

Uh, FFXIV...?

Actions don't prove anything, people make bad decisions on faulty/incomplete/without regard to available information all the time.

[Arcon]

Christ almighty, PROVE THIS. Is a little empirical evidence too much ask?

Yes, because no one can provide such evidence. Sometimes best guesses are all there is to work with. And you're doing nothing else. You're screaming discrimination when you have absolutely zero evidence that that's what's going on. You say that PC gaming is not big in Japan, also with zero evidence (and which I believe to be wrong). Yet you condemn others for doing the same thing?

[Dazusu]

Christ almighty, PROVE THIS. Is a little empirical evidence too much ask?

No solid evidence, but I do recall a poll done by SE a while ago on what platform people were using to play. It's quite possible that this decision is based on the outcome of that. I mean, what other logical reason could they have not to publish it in the USA? 'regional discrimination?'...

Also, you're spewing mad. It's delicious.

[RagingAvatar]

If you think this game is going to get a lot of engine upgrades etc. if they drop PS2, you're wrong. It won't. There's still loads of ways they could push PS2 but that haven't.

There's no reason they couldn't have started using much better quality textures and lighting on 360/PC but they haven't.

360 and PC could be using a deferred renderer but it doesn't.

Don't kid yourselves guys that this game is going to get a whole bunch of upgrades - *that* wouldn't make economic sense.

Releasing (as a download) the PS2 content that a) will have already been made for Japan and b) has already been localised for PC and 360 has *nothing* to do with economics.

Releasing a disc version obviously does - but I can get over not having a disc version but asking for a download isn't asking for too much.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Uh, FFXIV...?

Actions don't prove anything, people make bad decisions on faulty/incomplete/without regard to available information all the time.

Which was worked on almost immediately by removing the "problem" that was killing it and putting it back in charge of FFXI, then hiring competent people.

FFXIV was a failure because they did a BETA and listened to NONE of it's BETA testers, they've learned from their mistake.



If you think this game is going to get a lot of engine upgrades etc. if they drop PS2, you're wrong. It won't. There's still loads of ways they could push PS2 but that haven't.

It wont because it's cost ineffective. PS2 really can't be pushed much further, it's on it's last legs as it is. Hello "Auto Translate" etc....

[RagingAvatar]

Removed - I was making a pointless argument.

[Vold]

Don't kid yourselves guys that this game is going to get a whole bunch of upgrades - *that* wouldn't make economic sense.Yet it is getting a whole bunch of upgrades for the windows version. People also said it didn't make economic sense to make another expansion. Have we not learned yet that we're not knowitalls and that SE can do whatever the hell it wants/can with what dev crew they have?

But there is one thing I'm certain of and feel perfectly confident to say without a shred of doubt: It makes perfect sense to give an aging MMO upgrades. It's not about bringing in new players. It's about keeping existing players for as long as possible. If someone can't grasp that simple concept then there's no hope for them. When it comes to MMOs it can do a whole bunch of good to update your game to whatever extent you can. It absolutely breathes new life into a game by keeping it interesting.

SE understands this perfectly as they are spending resources on updating the windows version, and that's all that matters. I question their wisdom at times with some of the choices they make, but they certainly do understand what I am saying. It's only a matter of what their opinion is on us the players - can we or can we not live with say, no graphical updates. Or whatever. That's all it boils down to. They still bring in a shitmillion dollars every month. To say they are limited with what they can do due to income is lol. They could afford hundreds of new developers to put on FFXI. We don't need hundreds. We just need one to start work on a face lift to the game.

Point is, if SE wants to do it then they'll do it, and no amount of "gamer wisdom" via us to prove otherwise will change that.


Now, as far as this expansion goes, to us it may be as simple as throwing the exp files up online for download but obviously something is stopping that. It costs a lot more money to go through the disc format than it does online(case of gamer wisdom there? SE can be the judge since they know for a fact if it's true or not) Either there are technical reasons the PS2 outside of Japan is getting the shaft(like the Japanese have access to super PS2s or something because Sony still supports it in their country due to ease of doing so)or SE is in the beginning phrases of giving the PS2 das boot. Start with the extremely small PS2 base outside of Japan as a clear message to those in Japan, better start saving up for that 100 dollar computer over the next 3 years 'cause you're next.

[Zerich]

Christ almighty, PROVE THIS. Is a little empirical evidence too much ask? I don't give shit about your opinion, gut feeling or so-called educated guesses. Shit or get off the pot. When you do I'll shut up and let you go back to your totally irrational belief that by eliminating PS2 support, SE will somehow find the will and resources to vastly improve this game's player experience.

I'm not "butthurt" about anything. I play on PC for Christsakes. I may even convince myself to play the expansion without my PS2 dualbox character if SE convinces me its cool enough. When did elementary reading comprehension and following a conversation go from being a basic skill to a lost f*%king art?

Someone's angry...

1) Walk into Gamestop.
2) Look at the walls.
3) Ask employee about new PS2 releases.
4) Open any videogame magazine (sans RETROGamer or Nintendo Power) and find the PS2 reviews and previews.

If you were able to find out about any new or relevant PS2 software information, then you are in a wormhole and have found a way to trascend time and space. And for that, I congratulate you.

[Twille]

1) Walk into Gamestop.
2) Look at the walls.
3) Ask employee about new PS2 releases.
4) Open any videogame magazine (sans RETROGamer or Nintendo Power) and find the PS2 reviews and previews.

Quoted for truth.

[Jackstin]

I'd like to ask a question, as well.

To those people who duel box. Have you bought both the PC and PS2 versions of all expansions, or have you bought the PS2 versions and torrented the PC versions.

I'm not accusing everyone of doing this, but I know that many do because they feel (incorrectly) that it is their legal right as they've bought the game once.

For this to be worthwhile for SE, they'd need to have a significant number of people willing to buy the game either just on PS2, or for both PS2 and PC. If people are just buying the game once, but taking advantage of SE releasing two versions, why would SE support that?

Clearly there aren't the numbers to do this, else they would release it. You may well argue that its just a stupid decision and stupid decisions are made all the time, but SE have far more information at their disposal than you or I do, so its pretty rich for you to criticise their business decisions,

[Gilraen]

Wow, people... way to overestimate the US market there. Reading some of these posts I have to cringe. You people DO realize that Japan is Square's home market, not the US, right? You DON'T piss off the home market. Do that and you're guaranteed to fail and hard. Dropping PS2 support would be shooting themselves in the head; not the foot, the head. Yes, I play on the PS2 version. Yes, I play it on a first generation PS3. No, I don't dual-box because paying $26 a month on one game is both crazy and beyond my willingness to spend (on a single game). And no, I don't run mules as I can't see spending another dollar on a character I'll rarely actively use.

I got into this game on the PS2 version (on a fat PS2 no less) and honestly, it's what I'm comfortable with. I'm not a huge game-o-phile so fancy graphics don't carry the same weight with me as it apparently does with most, and I don't feel I should be obliged as much as others. I didn't make the game, I don't really have any right to dictate how it's made or progresses. Nor does anyone else. Yeah, lack of PS2 release in the US has me miffed but most I can do is ask for a US release or, at worse, knuckle under and track down a PC version and the expansion.

[Aldersyde]

Yes, because no one can provide such evidence. Sometimes best guesses are all there is to work with. And you're doing nothing else. You're screaming discrimination when you have absolutely zero evidence that that's what's going on. You say that PC gaming is not big in Japan, also with zero evidence (and which I believe to be wrong). Yet you condemn others for doing the same thing?

1. Exactly, no hard evidence. Never been released. No, best guesses aren't good enough when you're basing your whole argument off of it. If you don't have evidence, you either have to (a) look harder for it or (b) back away from your position. I fail students for being unwilling or unable to do either. There's a lot of conclusive statements being thrown out without any evidence whatsoever and that drives me batty. I could tell people how to go about looking for it without using official SE sources but its not my position and I'm not doing work for lazy people.

2. I said, to me, it appears to be regional discrimination and it feels like a big screw you from SE. I stated my argument in two posts pages before and I did not present it as fact but as a subjective feeling. I feel that way because SE has tried to implement differential options based on region before, as when SE implemented its new payment system. Maybe discrimination is too strong a word because of its negative connotations, but they have, in fact, tried to treat its playerbase differently based on where they live. In the end, it turned out that they could accept credit cards directly the NA player base but just chose not to, until people made an uproar about it.

3. I practice what I preach. I had read articles about the state of PC gaming in Japan before and that it what I base my opinion on. I did a google search and found information pretty easily on it. Obviously, it would be better if I could find some good hard stats on the numbers but some articles are the best I can do without being able to read Japanese.

http://injapan.gaijinpot.com/live/tech/2011/08/08/pc-gaming-in-japan-and-the-west/
http://kotaku.com/5859162/the-country-that-loves-pc-gaming-so-damn-much/gallery/1
http://kotaku.com/5844588/why-japanese-developers-should-have-played-more-pc-games

I also found a couple of forums discussing the state of PC gaming in Japan, where the general consensus is that consoles are much more popular in Japan:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.253552-Japan-really-hates-PC-gaming-huh
http://www.capcom-unity.com/ask_capcom/go/thread/view/7371/27495273/Why_is_PC_Gaming_not_taken_seriously_by_Capcom_JP

History of gaming in Japan:
http://www.japaninc.com/cpj/magazine/issues/1997/aug97/0897pcgames.html (little old, but concise)

That's with a simple search. I'm pretty confident in my original assertion that console gaming is much bigger in Japan. Most of the information is from 2010-2011. Of course, I'm open to new information, which is a lot more consideration and respect than has been shown to me.

[Aldersyde]

Someone's angry...

1) Walk into Gamestop.
2) Look at the walls.
3) Ask employee about new PS2 releases.
4) Open any videogame magazine (sans RETROGamer or Nintendo Power) and find the PS2 reviews and previews.

If you were able to find out about any new or relevant PS2 software information, then you are in a wormhole and have found a way to trascend time and space. And for that, I congratulate you.

Exactly how does this method ascertain how many NA players are currently playing FFXI on the PS2, which is the whole crux of the matter?

[Siiri]

It is like some ps2 players are 3 year old children screaming and jumping up and down, "But I want the expansion on ps2!!!."

Ps2 were released in 2000. People using them have been very lucky to have had them working and supported this long. I do not wish anyone to lose access, but SE has made a business decision. I have had 3 ps2 friends in the past 6 months have their ps2 devices break down. 2 switched to xbox , one quit. Sorry ps2 players, those are the breaks. Sony doesn't support these devices in the US, it was only a matter of time before SE quit making expansions for them.

If you want a console try the xbox, if you don't care get a pc. If you want to quit, go ahead and quit. If you feel you don't have the money to buy a new console or pc, you have 6-10 months. Throw aside 50 bucks a month or whatever by the time the expansion comes out you will have plenty to buy something. Acting like a spoiled baby isn't getting anyone's sympathy. Perhaps a valid argument can be made for downloadable content, I don't' know. If one is to be made though try not sounding like an entitled brat.

[Caspin]

I look for Square Enix to have a DLC for Anyone still on PS2. They are not going to kill the Ps2 players. American, Europeon or Japanese. Square Enix really cant afford anymore bad PR, Square Enix isn't all stupid. Or least I hope there not now days. I think they learned there lesson.

[Arcon]

1. Exactly, no hard evidence. Never been released. No, best guesses aren't good enough when you're basing your whole argument off of it.

Exactly the same as you, no hard evidence. You only brought one article that even said that PC gaming wasn't strong in Japan, and that article also said the the largest portion of the recent PC market growth came from there. The only other article on the topic is from 15 years ago, and no matter how well it is written, it cannot be used as an argumentative tool, but only as a historical base. The rest was just some barely related articles and some anecdotes from random people on some forums, which I'm sure you agree is not evidence at all.

We don't have numbers, but we also have evidence, namely SE's reactions. Why do you think they did a quiz like that anyway? Why do you think they would dismiss a part of their userbase if it wasn't profitable to do so? It's a logical implication drawn from their actions. And it's not definitive, and we know that. But it's a good indication.

And one more thing you should consider is that "console gaming" does not implicate "PS2 gaming", as that's what this is about. The PS2 portion of the playerbase is dwindling, in Japan too. When a new player starts, they're not going to buy a game for a console that maybe even predates them. By today's standards, this game plays horrible. There is nearly zero incentive to buy this game on the PS2, unless you just discovered previous FF titles and wanna play this for completion's sake, and even then you're more than likely to get any other version you can unless you're a rabid Sony fanboy.


If you don't have evidence, you either have to (a) look harder for it or (b) back away from your position.

Firstly, I'm not trying to convince you. I was just commenting your misplaced craving for factual numbers, because no one can provide those, neither us nor you. Secondly, as I said before, there is evidence, just not hard evidence or proof. It is, however, enough to draw logical implications from it. And finally, if there's no evidence for either argument, there's still no reason to back away. That's when your position turns into a belief. And as long as you recognize that and don't defend it irrationally as a fact, you're free to remain there.


2. I said, to me, it appears to be regional discrimination and it feels like a big screw you from SE.

No, you said:

So the only thing you're really supporting is regional discrimination.

With that you dismissed our arguments and said we're supporting discrimination, which is not what anyone is doing here. I'm aware that you said "seems like discrimination" before, but this was the post this particular argument originated from, and it's the one where you forced that opinion on us instead of just SE. With that, you called us discriminating as well, not just them. Also, you weren't the only one who argued discrimination, so it was not solely directed at you.


Maybe discrimination is too strong a word because of its negative connotations, but they have, in fact, tried to treat its playerbase differently based on where they live.

That's my entire problem here. No one is denying the regionally biased treatment, but there does seem to be an underlying reason. Discrimination would mean prejudicial decisions, whereas this seemed like an economic one.

The reason why I support it is because it actually is a first step in the PS2-less direction. This decision on SE's part is not only a consequence of the dwindling NA/EU PS2 playerbase, but it's also a reminder to the JP folks, that this is in their future. This is a motivation for them to switch to another platform. Don't think that this will go unnoticed by the JP playerbase. It may actually help speed up their departure from the PS2.


Exactly how does this method ascertain how many NA players are currently playing FFXI on the PS2, which is the whole crux of the matter?

Because it shows that there's zero or negative population growth in that department, whereas new PC players emerge daily (even more so recently, as it seems judging by various threads on the forums and people I meet in the game), further shifting the ratio away from PS2 gaming.


I look for Square Enix to have a DLC for Anyone still on PS2. They are not going to kill the Ps2 players. American, Europeon or Japanese. Square Enix really cant afford anymore bad PR, Square Enix isn't all stupid. Or least I hope there not now days. I think they learned there lesson.

While offering the expansion as DLC would maybe not be economically bad in the short term, it may very well be in the long term, for the sake of phasing out the PS2 entirely. However, since I don't know when that would be, I can't really argue against you right now. It would, however, uplift the morale of the PS2 playerbase globally, which I consider to be a mistake. PS2 players should not be encouraged to keep playing on their outdated and outlived platform.

[Zerich]

Exactly how does this method ascertain how many NA players are currently playing FFXI on the PS2, which is the whole crux of the matter?

You have to be trolling. I don't want to believe that there are people out there ignorant enough not to understand that printing expansion discs (and SE's favoritism for their JP base(see: FF Agito)) for the PS2 in NA, would not sell well at all in NA.

But seriously, are all the PS2 players on food-stamps or high-schoolers, cause I am scared shitless if they're legit.

[Zeargi]

SE already proved it via their actions. SE is a business. Businesses do what is most economic. If there was enough of a player base on PS2 in NA, they'd still be getting support.

This is far from true. Business do stupid things ALL the time. I mean, look at Disney, they throw money way like it's water. Sony... we all remember the PS3 launch. Anyone remember Squaresoft? And how it tanked horribly after a certain 3D Movie endeavor, and as such had to be bailed out by another Video game company, which then proceeded to R*** the original company's brand title in multiple spin-offs and sequels?? I bought my 360 to play two characters at once, because I didn't have that great of a computer. My computer is pretty decent now, but I still don't want to play on the PC. I don't like the set up, and as it is, it's not really THAT much of an improvement for me, because I don't have a HD monitor. (and not that I play games because they have to have awesome graphics) SE made an easy 60 bucks off me on my PS2 alone with the release of the 6 mini-expansion, ALL of which were digital. They did almost next to nothing because they were in zones that already existed or cloned areas that were re-landscaped (And that was removing the Crags...). While it's most definitely difficult to program... They are already doing the work, and it's not THAT hard to make a disc that has a multi-region code that allowed for people to continue to play by buying the game from SE directly, after all they are also a distributor. (that saying a disc is the only option, but that cuts-out the middle man and maximizes the profits.) And of course, I can also point out all the Abyssea mini-expansion which did add "New zones" were again completely Digital. So if this is indeed the 2012 and blah, blah, blah that everyone keeps saying. Why is it so hard to make it DIGITAL...


it's an MMO...ppl play MMO's on PCs...deal with it

Now, I'm gonna let you know... THIS MMO was a PS2 original, it was designed and debuted on the PS2 in Japan.

[Zerich]

stuff



Now, I'm gonna let you know... THIS MMO was a PS2 original, it was designed and debuted on the PS2 in Japan.

Now I'm gonna let you know homegirl that the series premiered on the superfamicom. WHY CAN'T I FIGHT JENOVAH ON MY NES?!
^that's how you sound^

[Zeargi]

Now I'm gonna let you know homegirl that the series premiered on the superfamicom. WHY CAN'T I FIGHT JENOVAH ON MY NES?!
^that's how you sound^

I just like to keeps it real.


Also you might want to get your eyes cheek, I'm not your Home girl. ¬_¬

[Zerich]

I just like to keeps it real.

it's got to be reeeeeeeeeeeeal

[Zeargi]

it's got to be reeeeeeeeeeeeal

Oh yeah, Bon qui qui, You can have a coke.

[Zerich]

Oh yeah, Bon qui qui, You can have a coke.

dis levonisha

Who Bon qui qui...WHO BON QUI QUI?!?!

[Aldersyde]

Firstly, I'm not trying to convince you. I was just commenting your misplaced craving for factual numbers, because no one can provide those, neither us nor you. Secondly, as I said before, there is evidence, just not hard evidence or proof. It is, however, enough to draw logical implications from it. And finally, if there's no evidence for either argument, there's still no reason to back away. That's when your position turns into a belief. And as long as you recognize that and don't defend it irrationally as a fact, you're free to remain there

Your so-called evidence is actually a hypothesis, no matter how well thought out or reasonable it seems. Hypothesis is not proof, or evidence. The next step is to actually find and provide data to back up your hypothesis. That's how proper inquiry works. I didn't make up the system but flagrantly disregarding it just shows lazy/incomplete thinking. Obviously, we're going to have to agree to disagree because you and others just don't get that.

And you're quite wrong, I could go and obtain factual numbers. I could go ask every player on my server what system they play on via tells and compile a database reflecting the data. I could then extrapolate the data to reflect other servers and the game as whole using data already collected. Hell, If I was really ambitious I could make a mule on every server and do the same thing for more accurate results. Shit's not hard, just time consuming. But I'm not the one claiming that NA PS2 population levels are so low that it's not cost effective to release an expansion on NA PS2, nor that they are high enough to warrant it (just because I disagree with the former position, doesn't mean I support the latter one). I was just sick of people passing off a hypothesis as fact and started telling people to back that shit up. That's not unreasonable, from the perspective of my profession or on the burden of proof as it relates to western thought as a whole.

At least I attempted to bring evidence to support my belief that PC gaming is of much less importance in Japan (and I could go look through at least fifteen years of gaming and pc magazines that are piled up in my garage for more corroborating evidence). I invited you to bring contrary evidence but you'd rather just pick at mine without showing your hand. You must have a reason for believing what you believe, so please, at least provide a citation. I'm open-minded, if I'm wrong show me, but don't sit there with your thumbs in your ears shouting "la, la, la....I'm right, you're wrong".

[Aldersyde]

You have to be trolling. I don't want to believe that there are people out there ignorant enough not to understand that printing expansion discs (and SE's favoritism for their JP base(see: FF Agito)) for the PS2 in NA, would not sell well at all in NA.

But seriously, are all the PS2 players on food-stamps or high-schoolers, cause I am scared shitless if they're legit.

Dude, your response was no less trollish than mine. But if i was going for full-on troll, I would have said something concerning the wormhole and going back in time to tell your father to put on a rubber the night you were conceived, because it's not like you contribute more than trollbait on these forums.

[Merton9999]

I don't get why people are surprised by this. Leaving PS2 off a full expansion isn't that different than every other game company's games (and SE's other games) that are only released for new systems. For that matter, new versions of an ongoing desktop program eventually require new operating systems. The fact that FFXI started on PS2 is about as relevant as saying MS Office 2010 should be released for Windows 95.

Also, Zerich already said what I've been thinking the whole time more potently than I would. But, it's hard for me to imagine a financial situation where someone would be fine paying $13+ per month to play a game, but is going to complain about a relatively small one-time expenditure to play the upgraded version. It's obviously not my place to tell people how to spend their money, but I'm curious how you're justifying the monthly fee.

One example that makes sense to me is the people whose parents are reluctantly paying for FFXI and those parents would hesitate at bigger costs of enablement. In that case, Christmas is coming before the expansion so you know what to ask for. Put the add for the $20 Black Friday XBox on their pillow.

[Aldersyde]

Also, Zerich already said what I've been thinking the whole time more potently than I would. But, it's hard for me to imagine a financial situation where someone would be fine paying $13+ per month to play a game, but is going to complain about a relatively small one-time expenditure to play the upgraded version. It's obviously not my place to tell people how to spend their money, but I'm curious how you're justifying the monthly fee.

MMO subscriptions are simply one of the cheapest, most cost effective methods in which to game, or to entertain yourself for that matter. A new console game is at least $40-60 and usually doesn't have more than a 2-3 weeks of game time. MMO subscriptions are extremely easy to justify. A whole month of FF is less than a night at the movies, hell, it's less than a full year of public library fees. Of course, if you play more than 8-12 hours a day, your mileage may vary. I always have something to do ingame.

Buying a whole new computer when I already have one (and actually, I have 2 in the household so the wife doesn't have to compete with my pc time)? That's a little more tricky to justify.

[Merton9999]

MMO subscriptions are simply one of the cheapest, most cost effective methods in which to game, or to entertain yourself for that matter. A new console game is at least $40-60 and usually doesn't have more than a 2-3 weeks of game time. MMO subscriptions are extremely easy to justify. A whole month of FF is less than a night at the movies, hell, it's less than a full year of public library fees. Of course, if you play more than 8-12 hours a day, your mileage may vary. I always have something to do ingame.

Buying a whole new computer when I already have one (and actually, I have 2 in the household so the wife doesn't have to compete with my pc time)? That's a little more tricky to justify.

I would get that if by "whole new computer" you required it to be a top-of-the-line, all-or-nothing purchase. If your goal is just to play, this doesn't have to be one of those family financial decisions that cancels the kids' Disney vacation for the year. Super-low price options are available, and for that matter, a used XBox would suffice.

[Randwolf]

Yes, and I consider this a step towards that final goal of no more PS2. Even if this dream never comes to fruition, knowing that there are fewer retarded NA players on PS2 makes me happy.

I know this comes off rather trollish, and I apologize, but my god, NA players have complained the most in 10 years about how they "deserve more from SE."
Nice try at making an attack and...


^and this is exactly why I'm glad NAs can't PS2 in the expansion. Thank you for ignoring the actual message and being butthurt. I appreciate it.
then pretend you were attacked first. Jeez, the IQ of some people on these boards...

[Zerich]

Dude, your response was no less trollish than mine. But if i was going for full-on troll, I would have said something concerning the wormhole and going back in time to tell your father to put on a rubber the night you were conceived, because it's not like you contribute more than trollbait on these forums.

Oh look, someone who isn't a troll shares my point of view. Must be a troll.


I would get that if by "whole new computer" you required it to be a top-of-the-line, all-or-nothing purchase. If your goal is just to play, this doesn't have to be one of those family financial decisions that cancels the kids' Disney vacation for the year. Super-low price options are available, and for that matter, a used XBox would suffice.

Actually, read through the forums. Shop for computers from wholesale warehouses. Look up how much parts and labor would take to upgrade your computer to run this game on it. It's dirt cheap and runs better.

[Demon6324236]

Yes, and I consider this a step towards that final goal of no more PS2. Even if this dream never comes to fruition, knowing that there are fewer retarded NA players on PS2 makes me happy.

I know this comes off rather trollish, and I apologize, but my god, NA players have complained the most in 10 years about how they "deserve more from SE."

SE is somewhat unfair to NA players in general, not only this game. I would love to play the final mix versions of Kingdom Hearts games, or the international versions of FFX & Star Ocean, the version of FFXII with a different ability/spell/gear system. But all of these were never released in NA, people like me who love these games and played them alot have no choice but to buy JP consoles & get the game shipped over seas for the simple pleasure of playing a game you like with extra content never released in your country. As much as I love SE's games I hate how they are with that fact.

[SpankWustler]

SE is somewhat unfair to NA players in general, not only this game. I would love to play the final mix versions of Kingdom Hearts games, or the international versions of FFX & Star Ocean, the version of FFXII with a different ability/spell/gear system. But all of these were never released in NA, people like me who love these games and played them alot have no choice but to buy JP consoles & get the game shipped over seas for the simple pleasure of playing a game you like with extra content never released in your country. As much as I love SE's games I hate how they are with that fact.

I wonder how easily a Japanese bro could download both Dragon Age games for ten bucks rather than paying sixty dollars or more.

Not meant as a snide response, I promise! I don't know either way and I seriously wonder about that.

[Apie]

When I first saw the new expansion trailer and there was no mention of PS2 at the end, I was extremely excited, wooo, the steps square should have taken 5 years ago, dropping the super limited ps2 so the game can look and function better. Then, just for the hell of it, I watch the Japanese trailer, with the PS2 support at the end of it. I was disappointed yet not even slightly surprised. Square has been screwing us since they skipped FFII for the NES in favor of FFIV. They are Japan first, second, third and the rest of the world is fourth and sometimes not supported at all. Check out all the International versions that they release in Japan and where is Before Crisis: FFVII or even the crappy FF:U cellphone game? What about all the Japanese only Moogle Rod? In Japan it dispense infinitely where the usa Nomad Moogle Rod is 50 uses ever, never refillable again. Simple things like that show that the decision makers in Square are racist. Plain and simple. If coca-cola ran a contest with that same mentality, white people get a years supply of coke if they win and black people get a week's supply if they win. Should coca-cola say, well our main target is white people so black people should just be happy with what we give them? They would declared racist by everyone and coca-cola would feel the impact of their negative contest. Well Square does the same crap and the ones from the country being screw are saying "good, who cares" instead of being pissed off for being seen as a lower form of life by a company that you support monthly. F*cking shameful and insulting.

[Zerich]

When I first saw the new expansion trailer and there was no mention of PS2 at the end, I was extremely excited, wooo, the steps square should have taken 5 years ago, dropping the super limited ps2 so the game can look and function better. Then, just for the hell of it, I watch the Japanese trailer, with the PS2 support at the end of it. I was disappointed yet not even slightly surprised. Square has been screwing us since they skipped FFII for the NES in favor of FFIV. They are Japan first, second, third and the rest of the world is fourth and sometimes not supported at all. Check out all the International versions that they release in Japan and where is Before Crisis: FFVII or even the crappy FF:U cellphone game? What about all the Japanese only Moogle Rod? In Japan it dispense infinitely where the usa Nomad Moogle Rod is 50 uses ever, never refillable again. Simple things like that show that the decision makers in Square are racist. Plain and simple. If coca-cola ran a contest with that same mentality, white people get a years supply of coke if they win and black people get a week's supply if they win. Should coca-cola say, well our main target is white people so black people should just be happy with what we give them? They would declared racist by everyone and coca-cola would feel the impact of their negative contest. Well Square does the same crap and the ones from the country being screw are saying "good, who cares" instead of being pissed off for being seen as a lower form of life by a company that you support monthly. F*cking shameful and insulting.

nationalism is segregation based on the country.

racism is based on race.

i never knew that eastern asian people living in the states could receive jp only items...

[FrankReynolds]

I would take the fact that he read your entire paragraph and had nothing to add, other than a gripe about your grammar as a sign that he agrees with everything that you said. Good job!

[Zerich]

I would take the fact that he read your entire paragraph and had nothing to add, other than a gripe about your grammar as a sign that he agrees with everything that you said. Good job!

Yes, I do agree that Japan gaming industry gives off a general nationalist vibe to the rest of the world. I just wanted to correct the improper vocabulary. This still doesn't mean that I support the PS2 anywhere. Coolcondecendingremarktomakemesoundcoolontheofficialforums. Gold star 4 u!

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Yes, I do agree that Japan gaming industry gives off a general nationalist vibe to the rest of the world. I just wanted to correct the improper vocabulary. This still doesn't mean that I support the PS2 anywhere. Coolcondecendingremarktomakemesoundcoolontheofficialforums. Gold star 4 u!

Racism in itself is wrong. We are "The Human Race" colour/language/religion doesn't define different races.

[Rionaheart]

Only way Se can stop all this bitching is release it for the Ps3 after all the ps2 is kinda obsolete now im a pc user I hate xbox 360 with a passion and have never liked xbox but each to there own but I would like to see this game on Ps3 that will also give anyone that has a ps2 or played the game on ps2 the chance to come back to the game as most ps2 users now have a Ps3 Se just should give the option or at least do a survey to help them make the right choice.

[Demon6324236]

nationalism is segregation based on the country.

racism is based on race.

i never knew that eastern asian people living in the states could receive jp only items...

Nationalism or Racism, both are just as bad, I live in NA no reason I should be denied a game because of that, some companies I might understand, they don't have the people to translate the games and put them out, SE however...

SE does it with many things, not just a small amount, they make games that take years to long to get to other countries, make special editions with added content(Not as much of a problem now that DLC exists) and just games in general that we will never see in stores. Its sad & pathetic in general, and its honestly why I am not surprised at this move by them, its just another company doing what everyone is doing these days, screw customers, make money, EA does it, Activision does it, and our lovely SE does it too.

[saevel]

nationalism is segregation based on the country.

racism is based on race.

i never knew that eastern asian people living in the states could receive jp only items...

Nationalism and Racism intersect whenever a nationalistic population is largely homogenous. In these case's the race is seen as the nation and vice versa. This happens in many places that maintained an anti-outsider attitude until the last century or so.

Ex: In South Korea, being ethnic Korean is culturally treated the same as being a citizen of SK. Someone being of non-Korean ethnicity yet having Korean citizenship, via immigration or being children of immigrants, is treated as a lower class citizen. Japan is a slightly better only because they hide their feelings behind a smile, otherwise the same behaviors exist. I can not speak for other countries as I've not yet been there, but I can speak for SK / Japan.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

SE does it with many things, not just a small amount, they make games that take years to long to get to other countries, make special editions with added content(Not as much of a problem now that DLC exists) and just games in general that we will never see in stores. Its sad & pathetic in general, and its honestly why I am not surprised at this move by them, its just another company doing what everyone is doing these days, screw customers, make money, EA does it, Activision does it, and our lovely SE does it too.It's our own fault for having crappy, gimmic only gaming companies. What do we make here? Wall crawller and FPS rehashes.

[Apie]

After I posted it, I re-read it and I agree, racism is the wrong word, but the meaning behind it is the same. It's not even that much extra work for a USA PS2 release. All the translations are done, since there are 360 and PC releases are coming out in the USA and the programming is being done for the PS2 since Japan is getting a PS2 release. So I fail to see where all the extra work would come in for them to do a USA release. If they want to play it safe, have the USA version only sold as pre-orders from the USA Square-Enix store. They print just enough to cover the pre-order cut-off date. That way they don't alienate the small handful of PS2 USA customers. Bam, extra profit with ZERO risk and happier customers. They aren't dumb, I'm very sure this idea of mine has crossed their minds, which makes this whole situation that much more offensive. The only thing I can think of is that Sony told them that they can't release it in the USA - since it's not going to have many sales...

Demon6324236 said:

>>>make special editions with added content(Not as much of a problem now that DLC exists)

I would almost agree, but for FFXIII, Square released a DLC patch to add Easy Type to the Japanese version so people can do speed runs, we never got that. So even in the era of DLC, Square is still giving Japan more than everywhere else. Not just FFXIII, also Dissidia 012, some of the DLC is also Japan only.

>>>EA does it, Activision does it, and our lovely SE does it too.

And don't forget Capcom, they are the kings of screwing customers, but that's a different topic. ;)

[Dazusu]

You seem to think its as easy as just producing the disks and shipping them to people. They need to license it with Sony and get permission. It's a lot more expensive than it is going to make them money in sales. Chances are they won't even make the expenses back with subs in 12 months across all US PS2 players, if the numbers are as small as anticipated.

I'm pretty sure this is purely an economical reason. No racism or discrimination intended.

[Anapingofness]

I'm pretty sure this is purely an economical reason. No racism or discrimination intended.

True that.
Why would people even consider racism/discrimination? It boggles the mind.

Look, SE runs a business, not a bloody charity.

Personally, I'd just nix the ps2 support altogether. However, at the end of the day it's SE's dime and if they think they can make money off of the JP market with the ps2 then they'll go for it. However, to attempt to produce the expansion for the rest of the world for a system nothing is being produced for is kind of silly. Not to mention that the large ps2's don't even read the disks anymore - for the most part.

Plus, it's not even just production and license costs that they have to take into account. It's the localization costs to boot. Those are just the first things that pop into my mind. I'm sure there are more things to work around.

[Apie]

Alienating a portion of their customers doesn't sound like a smart economical decision. Also, I checked online, the PlayStation3 licensing fee is $10 per game sold and the expansion will most likely be $19 to $29, plus since this is a PS2 title, I would imagine the licensing fee is even less than $10. Usually that would make the profit margin really low, but all the costs involved with programming and translating are already going to be done with the other releases. They have no additional licensing fees since they own the property and they are a publisher, so no outside costs with publishing. The manual will already be made for the PC and 360 version, so costs are very minimal there to make slight adjustments to the manual to make it for the PS2, or they could just translate the Japanese PS2 manual. So no, I don't see how it will be more expensive than it costs to release it here. If anything, it will be very slightly profitable, even with minimum sales. Plus Sony might have a special rate for expansions, since they aren't full games, they rely on another game to function, in which Sony has already made their profit on the original release.

Another option is making the Japanese PS2 expansion region-free, Play-Asia and eBay can easily handle that demand. This is just a suggestion off the top of my head, I'm sure there are plenty of other solutions.

Anapingofness Said:

>>>Why would people even consider racism/discrimination? It boggles the mind.

That part was already explained a few posts back, in detail, by a few different people. You really should read the full argument if you're going to criticize the comments of others.

>>>Look, SE runs a business, not a bloody charity.

When did PS2 owners ask for it for free? They want EQUAL treatment that others are getting, not special treatment.

>>>for a system nothing is being produced for is kind of silly. Not to mention that the large ps2's don't even read the disks anymore - for the most part.

Whether or not they are still making games for the PS2 is irrelevant cause people still play this game on the PS2 and it's these people who will buy it, no one else will, so the ones that want it already have working PS2s or at least a first generation PS3, so there are working systems to play the PS2 game on. I have 3 fully working PS2s (one old style, one new style and the Japanese FFXII collector's system.)

These people who are being denied access to the new expansion, just because they live in the "wrong" country or use the "wrong" system, are people who you may have had parties with or who may have walked by you and cured you when you were hurt. Why should they be excluded when others in the same situation as them aren't being excluded. You would feel a lot more butthurt if it was your system that was being denied access to what everyone else is getting.

For the record, I play on the PC, but I have it on the 360 and first generation PS3. So it doesn't really affect me, but wrong is wrong and this is wrong.

[Arcon]

Alienating a portion of their customers doesn't sound like a smart economical decision.

How can you qualify such a statement without determining the size of the portion? Sure, a large amount of people played on PS2, then it may not be, but if it's just a handful of people, alienating them at the benefit of preserving a sufficient sum of money can very well be worth it.

[Teraniku]

How is it wrong? The NA distribution / Manufacturing Companies don't even print PS2 discs anymore. You can't produce Region Free Discs for the PS2 Format. (In case you thought you could import the JP release) Even if you could find a manufacturer to do a print run for you, You have to print a minimum number of discs, usually a minimum of at least 3000. (I can honestly say there are less than 3k people in the NA region who play Exclusively on PS2 format) Then you have to schedule the run itself, Pay for distribution, etc.

Summing it up, it's not cost effective to continue to support NA PS2 players.

[Demon6324236]

Demon6324236 said:

>>>make special editions with added content(Not as much of a problem now that DLC exists)

I would almost agree, but for FFXIII, Square released a DLC patch to add Easy Type to the Japanese version so people can do speed runs, we never got that. So even in the era of DLC, Square is still giving Japan more than everywhere else. Not just FFXIII, also Dissidia 012, some of the DLC is also Japan only.

This I did not know, but thats even worse. My main reason for saying that is that now they have almost no excuse for not giving other countries extra content like in international versions & final mixs. Which has always been a problem to me so long as they do it because I know alot of people who love the games and would love to throw their money at SE for their extra content. I would hope due to the DLC availability we now have SE would stop this stupidity.


>>>EA does it, Activision does it, and our lovely SE does it too.

And don't forget Capcom, they are the kings of screwing customers, but that's a different topic. ;)

Yep, alot of companies are doing it more and more and its sad. Honestly I think in the end it might drive people away from gaming because of everything gamers get thrown at them at the same time as the cost it is on the players themselves to buy new consoles or upgrade PCs for newer games.

[Demon6324236]

It's our own fault for having crappy, gimmic only gaming companies. What do we make here? Wall crawller and FPS rehashes.

America is imo the FPS country of gaming, seems most of them or most popular ones come from here. Halo, Battlefield, CoD, and the like are all here. Japan is the RPG country, no country makes RPGs like Japan does, SE being one of the biggest names in the genre. So far as I know America games have had no problems going to other countries unless laws did not allow for it, however I doubt SE has been having this problem. For instance, I'm sure my Kingdom Hearts II:Final Mix+ had nothing the US government wouldn't allow. It just seems unfair to me in the end.

[Anapingofness]

Alienating a portion of their customers doesn't sound like a smart economical decision. Also, I checked online, the PlayStation3 licensing fee is $10 per game sold and the expansion will most likely be $19 to $29, plus since this is a PS2 title, I would imagine the licensing fee is even less than $10. Usually that would make the profit margin really low, but all the costs involved with programming and translating are already going to be done with the other releases. They have no additional licensing fees since they own the property and they are a publisher, so no outside costs with publishing. The manual will already be made for the PC and 360 version, so costs are very minimal there to make slight adjustments to the manual to make it for the PS2, or they could just translate the Japanese PS2 manual. So no, I don't see how it will be more expensive than it costs to release it here. If anything, it will be very slightly profitable, even with minimum sales. Plus Sony might have a special rate for expansions, since they aren't full games, they rely on another game to function, in which Sony has already made their profit on the original release.

Another option is making the Japanese PS2 expansion region-free, Play-Asia and eBay can easily handle that demand. This is just a suggestion off the top of my head, I'm sure there are plenty of other solutions.

Anapingofness Said:

>>>Why would people even consider racism/discrimination? It boggles the mind.

That part was already explained a few posts back, in detail, by a few different people. You really should read the full argument if you're going to criticize the comments of others.

>>>Look, SE runs a business, not a bloody charity.

When did PS2 owners ask for it for free? They want EQUAL treatment that others are getting, not special treatment.

>>>for a system nothing is being produced for is kind of silly. Not to mention that the large ps2's don't even read the disks anymore - for the most part.

Whether or not they are still making games for the PS2 is irrelevant cause people still play this game on the PS2 and it's these people who will buy it, no one else will, so the ones that want it already have working PS2s or at least a first generation PS3, so there are working systems to play the PS2 game on. I have 3 fully working PS2s (one old style, one new style and the Japanese FFXII collector's system.)

These people who are being denied access to the new expansion, just because they live in the "wrong" country or use the "wrong" system, are people who you may have had parties with or who may have walked by you and cured you when you were hurt. Why should they be excluded when others in the same situation as them aren't being excluded. You would feel a lot more butthurt if it was your system that was being denied access to what everyone else is getting.

For the record, I play on the PC, but I have it on the 360 and first generation PS3. So it doesn't really affect me, but wrong is wrong and this is wrong.

It appears that we have a misunderstanding, I apologize.

I will try to clear it up.

I do not support the segregated support of the ps2. As in, NA gets none while JP gets ps2 support. I think there hasn't been ps2 support for a while especially in light of the many issues ps2 players run into. Issues such as black screens, being locked while talking to an NPC or while in a cut scene- just to name a few. If we had actual support those issues would have been taken care of.

It's not that I don't sympathize with the NA ps2 players. I do. The ps2 exclusion hits pretty close to home- quite literally. My younger sister still uses a ps2 to play FFXI and she's one of the people that would end up getting excluded. She's also one of the people I routinely play FFXI with.

Computers are readily accessible today and even the cheapest PC that came out within the last five years can run FFXI. If someone is still playing on the ps2 then they should upgrade to PC. Not to mention that most people have a PC or a next gen gaming console. This should not be that big of an issue.

I want this game to keep growing. Keeping the ps2 around will do more bad than good.

In short, I support dropping ps2 support across the board.

In closing...

I don't see why they can't just update it the way they did with Abyssea. I do not mean in three mini expansions, what I mean is where everyone updates the game and has the files on their hard drive. Then, people would just buy the expansion code. That would make everyone happy and no disks are involved.

Alternatively, SE could add a FFXI collection to the PSN and let people play it on their ps3's without it being a first gen system.

[bungiefanNA]

Oddly, not everyone knows someone/is friends with/lives next to someone who plays FFXI, much less plays it on PC. Unless you're willing to send me your copy in the mail I'm still going to be forced to get the PC version along with the expansion just to play in the new area. It's best not to assume that everyone personally knows someone else who plays, it's just not the case nor has it ever really been so.

So you don't chat with anyone you play the game with, or read BlueGartr? Ever thought of using your internet connection to solve the problem instead of the postal service...? And why send you my copy? Why not a copy of my copy for you to keep? No copy protection on the discs, remember? You are already a paying subscriber, and the game doesn't require original discs.

[Gilraen]

Why should I support piracy? And how would knowing people online equate to my being able to borrow a legal copy of the game? I'd have to know them in real life, thus knowing where they live and how to get in touch with them outside of the internet to arrange the exchange. I think it's best to drop this 'copy of a copy' talk now before this thread gets locked.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Why should I support piracy? And how would knowing people online equate to my being able to borrow a legal copy of the game? I'd have to know them in real life, thus knowing where they live and how to get in touch with them outside of the internet to arrange the exchange. I think it's best to drop this 'copy of a copy' talk now before this thread gets locked.

It's NOT piracy.

Piracy is when you illegally obtain a copy of something you did not pay for, you already own a copy of the game and are using a means to install said purchase. They are completely different.

Technically SE themselves should provide a means to download the game for free as it's a paid for MMO.

[bungiefanNA]

Every multiplatform player I know, in-game or out, has bought the console version, and otherwise obtained the PC version. Local friends are saved the update process by me keeping my install backed up on an external drive, and just copy/pasting it over their base install (which can be done from the free trial version), since expansions don't have to be put into the Windows registry, their ROM folders just need to be present.

There is no moral objection from anyone I've offered this to. They bought the game, paid for the registration codes, and pay for their account. Buying a second copy for a second platform would give them an extra registration code they'd never use. It's like Windows, you pay for the registration code, not the install media. I can make as many copies of the ISO files Microsoft puts up on their site as I want, but they are useless without a registration code for each install. I pay for the registration codes when I buy from MS or DreamSpark, but I don't need a registration code to do the download.

[Gilraen]

No, I don't think you understand what piracy is. Making a copy of something, like a movie or a game or OS, then giving that copy away is piracy, therefor illegal. Money doesn't have to change hands for it to be piracy, though it does change how much money in reparations the suing party can get if it ever goes to court. Nor does prior ownership of either individual involved as then it comes down to proving that you own the copied material, and in the case of games with codes and OSes only one person will be able to make that claim. I'll not be a party to such behavior.

[Zerich]

No, I don't think you understand what piracy is. Making a copy of something, like a movie or a game or OS, then giving that copy away is piracy, therefor illegal. Money doesn't have to change hands for it to be piracy, though it does change how much money in reparations the suing party can get if it ever goes to court. Nor does prior ownership of either individual involved as then it comes down to proving that you own the copied material, and in the case of games with codes and OSes only one person will be able to make that claim. I'll not be a party to such behavior.

sorry to say, but it's you who doesn't understand piracy and videogames. if you have purchased a copy of the game, it is legal to run any version of the game as if you were playing it for that one purchase. it becomes pirating when you've purchased 1 copy of the game and are running the same "copy" on two or more different clients at the same time.

[Demon6324236]

No, I don't think you understand what piracy is. Making a copy of something, like a movie or a game or OS, then giving that copy away is piracy, therefor illegal. Money doesn't have to change hands for it to be piracy, though it does change how much money in reparations the suing party can get if it ever goes to court. Nor does prior ownership of either individual involved as then it comes down to proving that you own the copied material, and in the case of games with codes and OSes only one person will be able to make that claim. I'll not be a party to such behavior.

They are not saying to copy the disk. Let me explain from something in my experience. When I got Fallout 3:Game of the Year Edition I had a disk with it for all add-ons. Now I used this disk for myself, my younger cousin & my best friend who lived right down the street both had this game, and played it alot, however they had no DLC. I let them borrow the disk, no copying, no piracy, simply handed them the disk from my case as I no longer needed it. After this, they both downloaded the DLC, and happily had it, then returned the disk to me. This is what they speak of, nothing illegal unless its illegal to let my family & friends borrow games, if thats a case I am a horrible human being.

[Arcon]

No, I don't think you understand what piracy is. Making a copy of something, like a movie or a game or OS, then giving that copy away is piracy, therefor illegal.

That "definition" would make xerox machines as illegal as heroin. Thankfully it's nonsense.

The game itself is not what you pay for, which would be ironic anyway, as it is entirely useless on its own. You pay for the codes to unlock content IDs, which are bundled with each purchase. Exchanging game copies is not illegal in any way, therefore not piracy.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

No, I don't think you understand what piracy is. Making a copy of something, like a movie or a game or OS, then giving that copy away is piracy, therefor illegal. Money doesn't have to change hands for it to be piracy, though it does change how much money in reparations the suing party can get if it ever goes to court. Nor does prior ownership of either individual involved as then it comes down to proving that you own the copied material, and in the case of games with codes and OSes only one person will be able to make that claim. I'll not be a party to such behavior.

Companies dictate that as Piracy simply to try to trick you into purchasing another copy, the law however does NOT.

If you own a copy of software, movies etc you can legally view/use them in whatever means you wish to so long as you do not sell them or supply them to people who did not previously, legally purchase them.

[Jackstin]

Companies dictate that as Piracy simply to try to trick you into purchasing another copy, the law however does NOT.

If you own a copy of software, movies etc you can legally view/use them in whatever means you wish to so long as you do not sell them or supply them to people who did not previously, legally purchase them.

It's not as clear cut, it is definitely a legal grey area. Technically you are buying the license, so some argue that you are only allowed to use the product as intended. On the other hand you have physically bought a thing, so another strong argument is as that thing is yours, you can do with it what you will.

However, if you give that thing away, then using a digital version is completely illegal. As is downloading a digital version from illegal sources, of a game you bought physically.

[Gilraen]

... so long as you do not sell them or supply them to people who did not previously, legally purchase them.
And that is the point right there. Thank you for making it yourself so I didn't have to. Just because I own a copy of a version (in this case the PS2) of FFXI doesn't mean I own a copy of all versions of FFXI.

[Suteru]

You don't buy software itself, you buy licenses. Your license is attached to your POL ID, not the physical copy of the disk.

[Arcon]

However, if you give that thing away, then using a digital version is completely illegal. As is downloading a digital version from illegal sources, of a game you bought physically.

What are "illegal sources" in this case? The FFXI black market? I admit I'm not fully up to date on US law, but here as well as in other countries I know of it's perfectly legal to possess a digital copy of something you physically own (such as backing up a DVD to your hard drive, or rip songs from your music CD to your MP3 player). And that still doesn't compare to what's going on here, because as people said, you're not buying games, you're buying licenses. Registration codes with which to access the game, not obtain the game, as is normally the case when buying offline games. You can't just obtain a copy of the game from a random source and play it, not if you don't have your own license. And for that you need to purchase the game once for yourself, through any means you want (PS2 discs, PC discs, Steam download, whatever).

It makes perfect sense from a logical view. Think about it, what are game companies trying to sell? Games? No, they want people to pay for playing a game. And selling the games is usually the best way to achieve that. However, this doesn't apply here, because even if people have it they can't just play it. That's because SE aren't selling games, they're selling licenses to the one game that they are running, on their servers.


And that is the point right there. Thank you for making it yourself so I didn't have to. Just because I own a copy of a version (in this case the PS2) of FFXI doesn't mean I own a copy of all versions of FFXI.

Sure, skip over all the post lecturing you and reply only to those against which you can come up with something. And no one is saying you own a copy of all versions, but you own access to all versions, because there only is one version of FFXI, namely the one that runs on SE's servers. When you install FFXI, you're not installing the game at all. You're using a client-side interpreter to access the game that the server feeds you. It's like a web browser. Just because you have a browser, doesn't mean you can access the web. For that you need an internet connection. Browsers are free, internet isn't (unless you're leeching off someone, and I'm sure you can find a FFXI analogue to that situation as well).

[Llana_Virren]

It's not as clear cut, it is definitely a legal grey area. Technically you are buying the license, so some argue that you are only allowed to use the product as intended. On the other hand you have physically bought a thing, so another strong argument is as that thing is yours, you can do with it what you will.

However, if you give that thing away, then using a digital version is completely illegal. As is downloading a digital version from illegal sources, of a game you bought physically.

The only thing you are technically "buying" is the license. By this, you can use your disc to download the contents (ie. the expansions) on as many computers as you want; however, the license is registered to a single content ID. Once that registration is completed, as far as SE (and the law is concerned), the license is a redeemable item, and by registering it with a content ID you have effectively "redeemed" and forfeited ownership of that item. In essence crossing the territory between physical and digital property.

The content of the discs can be shared indefinitely, however the registration code cannot. At least, not without breaking the law.

[Gilraen]

The thing people are missing is that EULA talks about what your rights are in using the software on the disks, not the disks themselves. The disks are only intended to deliver that software then, well, sit on your shelf collecting dust until you need to reinstall or sit in your disk drive as an archaic form of DRM. It's governed by different rules that most corporations expect people to know without having to be told. Your freedoms with the disks are extremely limited in regards to sharing, they're intended for one owner and only one owner. Why do you think game companies hate Gamestop? There is a grey area in regards to backing up disks in case of damage but it's possible that laws have changed that makes that illegal, too.

A fine example of this lack of freedom is EA's Project Ten Dollar. If someone gives you their old copy of an EA game, say Battlefield II, you can't just install it an expect to be able to play online without hassle. They will require you to 'buy' the game from them (for $10) just to be able to play online. Only then do you actually own that install of them game, but those game disks still belong to the person that gave you the disks. At least they do in EA's eyes, and that's the crux of the matter. And hope you don't have to reinstall, cause I doubt that code EA gave you will work more than once.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

The thing people are missing is that EULA talks about what your rights are in using the software on the disks, not the disks themselves. The disks are only intended to deliver that software then, well, sit on your shelf collecting dust until you need to reinstall or sit in your disk drive as an archaic form of DRM. It's governed by different rules that most corporations expect people to know without having to be told. Your freedoms with the disks are extremely limited in regards to sharing, they're intended for one owner and only one owner. Why do you think game companies hate Gamestop? There is a grey area in regards to backing up disks in case of damage but it's possible that laws have changed that makes that illegal, too.

A fine example of this lack of freedom is EA's Project Ten Dollar. If someone gives you their old copy of an EA game, say Battlefield II, you can't just install it an expect to be able to play online without hassle. They will require you to 'buy' the game from them (for $10) just to be able to play online. Only then do you actually own that install of them game, but those game disks still belong to the person that gave you the disks. At least they do in EA's eyes, and that's the crux of the matter. And hope you don't have to reinstall, cause I doubt that code EA gave you will work more than once.

You're really going to use EA as an example, it's one of the worst companies around when it comes to little care for it's customers.

[Gilraen]

EA is the easiest example that everyone can relate to... so yeah.

[Demon6324236]

The thing people are missing is that EULA talks about what your rights are in using the software on the disks, not the disks themselves. The disks are only intended to deliver that software then, well, sit on your shelf collecting dust until you need to reinstall or sit in your disk drive as an archaic form of DRM. It's governed by different rules that most corporations expect people to know without having to be told. Your freedoms with the disks are extremely limited in regards to sharing, they're intended for one owner and only one owner. Why do you think game companies hate Gamestop? There is a grey area in regards to backing up disks in case of damage but it's possible that laws have changed that makes that illegal, too.

A fine example of this lack of freedom is EA's Project Ten Dollar. If someone gives you their old copy of an EA game, say Battlefield II, you can't just install it an expect to be able to play online without hassle. They will require you to 'buy' the game from them (for $10) just to be able to play online. Only then do you actually own that install of them game, but those game disks still belong to the person that gave you the disks. At least they do in EA's eyes, and that's the crux of the matter. And hope you don't have to reinstall, cause I doubt that code EA gave you will work more than once.

The example that you give of EA is exactly why I think they got the worst company in America award (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/04/05/ea-wins-worst-company-in-america-golden-poo-award/), or at least part of the reason. What your saying makes some sense, but I'm going to tell you this now, its stupid. I myself do not like stupid rules, or people.

If I buy a game, I spent my money on it. If I go to my friends house, I should be able to play it on their console, if I play on PC & Xbox but spent money on the PC version of FFXI, I should be able to play it on my Xbox all the same, not buy 2 of them. If I buy a disk with half of the games true content on it, I should be able to share it with my friends using my disk, I paid for it, its my item, and so I should be able to do what I see fit with it within certain bounds.

If this is truly the way the law is, I am sorry to tell you, but I am sure many, many people break this if they buy these kinds of things, and can let their friends use them as well. I myself have done something similar, I split costs of these types of things with friends, so that when we get the full content for us both, we pay half the price.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

EA is the easiest example that everyone can relate to... so yeah.

EA is a company that breaks the law repeatedly and one of the first ones to go "We hate people that sell games after they played them, which legally they're allowed to do so lets include a code in any of our games that go online so we can make more money, but supply subpar games that are usually the exact same except a slight difference in our storylines"

FFXI is the same software, so you can legally use that software on any format. Just as you can use a PSX game in an emulator on a PC if you want to, you just need to own a version of the software.

The only time this is different is if they released a game that was once out on the PSX and remade it, such as Resident Evil (which they did PSX>GameCube.) Then you need to buy the game on the Gamecube before you can use other means to play it.

[Gilraen]

I think you're still missing the point here. The ONLY aspect of FFXI that's cross-platform are the accounts we play on and the network they operate from. The PS2 is not the PC is not the 360. Each is it's own version, with it's own disks and it's own registration codes. I can no more say I own the PC version than you can the PS2 version UNLESS we just happen to also own the disks to said versions. It's that bloody simple.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I think you're still missing the point here. The ONLY aspect of FFXI that's cross-platform are the accounts we play on and the network they operate from. The PS2 is not the PC is not the 360. Each is it's own version, with it's own disks and it's own registration codes. I can no more say I own the PC version than you can the PS2 version UNLESS we just happen to also own the disks to said versions. It's that bloody simple.

The PC and XBOX versions are both ported from the PS2, so they are.

There is no UNIQUE registration code, if you can't see that then you're one of the people EA as a company thrives on.

[Gilraen]

If there is no code, then how did you register the expansions to prove you own them? I mean, unless I imagined inputting each and every one into POL...

[Daniel_Hatcher]

If there is no code, then how did you register the expansions to prove you own them? I mean, unless I imagined inputting each and every one into POL...

You put in UNIVERSAL codes, that is codes that work on ANY version of the installation software, NOT system specific ones.

Do what you want, but just be aware that the software is NOT unique to the systems, they all use the same data, the same files, and the same POL viewer. Just optimised for that system. (that is to say, crap on consoles)

[Mirage]

Hey guys

If you registered SoA on your PC, then went to your PS2 and performed a "file check", wouldn't the file check find that lots of files were "missing", and attempt to download what's missing?

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Hey guys

If you registered SoA on your PC, then went to your PS2 and performed a "file check", wouldn't the file check find that lots of files were "missing", and attempt to download what's missing?

Nope, it'd just disable the EP while on that platform.

[Dragoy]

Hmmm.

Methinks discussing about piracy is quite redundant when the User Agreement prohibits even merely borrowing the install media. ^^;

KB Article: 12688 (http://support.eu.square-enix.com/faqarticle.php?kid=12688&id=455&la=2&ret=faq&pv=10&page=0&c=0&sc=0&so=4&q=borrow)
Then again, it prohibits 'dat-mining' and all sorts of other stuff that don't really seem to be acted upon at all...

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Hmmm.

Methinks discussing about piracy is quite redundant when the User Agreement prohibits even merely borrowing the install media. ^^;

KB Article: 12688 (http://support.eu.square-enix.com/faqarticle.php?kid=12688&id=455&la=2&ret=faq&pv=10&page=0&c=0&sc=0&so=4&q=borrow)
Then again, it prohibits 'dat-mining' and all sorts of other stuff that don't really seem to be acted upon at all...

It prohibited recording in any form also, they changed that recently when they wanted users to record something.

The point isn't what SquareEnix says is legal and illegal, it's what actually is.

SquareEnix is a company, as a company it'll do anything and everything to get you to line their pockets more.

[Zerich]

EA is the easiest example that everyone can relate to... so yeah.

it's not a legal thing with EA, they're just selling the online multiplayer as a separate content.

yeah, that's what much of the videogame industry now (see FF XIII-2)

[LCofPandy]

To all of those who say "switch to PC" it's really getting annoying. I started out on PS2 and then got a 2nd account for my PC. So "switching over" isn't really an option unless I delete an account which aint happening. It's funny how all you say how terrible the graphics are. I have zero problems with mine. Crystal clear and looks pretty good. I'm actually very disappointed in SE for this move. They could sell it themselves if they truly wanted to. But to completely shut out a good many players...well lets just say I probably won't becoming back.

[Demon6324236]

I think of it as an amputation. Doctor tells us they are cutting off our legs, we don't like the idea, we are against it even, but they say it must be done, and we already gave them permission to do whatever needed done to save our lives. Life will still go on, and we might even be happy with it in time, but for now it seems terrible and we dread the thought of it. We have had our legs all our life, we have grown used to them, and don't want to lose them, but it has to happen for our own good, and so we must accept it.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

To all of those who say "switch to PC" it's really getting annoying. I started out on PS2 and then got a 2nd account for my PC. So "switching over" isn't really an option unless I delete an account which aint happening. It's funny how all you say how terrible the graphics are. I have zero problems with mine. Crystal clear and looks pretty good. I'm actually very disappointed in SE for this move. They could sell it themselves if they truly wanted to. But to completely shut out a good many players...well lets just say I probably won't becoming back.

You still playing it on the big huge old boxes of a TV because that's the only time PS2 graphics look good.

PS. Bravo on NOT knowing how consoles work. You can't just make, sell and market a game for a console you did NOT make.

[Mirage]

To all of those who say "switch to PC" it's really getting annoying. I started out on PS2 and then got a 2nd account for my PC. So "switching over" isn't really an option unless I delete an account which aint happening. It's funny how all you say how terrible the graphics are. I have zero problems with mine. Crystal clear and looks pretty good. I'm actually very disappointed in SE for this move. They could sell it themselves if they truly wanted to. But to completely shut out a good many players...well lets just say I probably won't becoming back.

What would require you to delete an account?

Do you play both at the same time?

[Demon6324236]

What would require you to delete an account?

Do you play both at the same time?

Better question is why delete one at all? Use 1 character when you want to, play the other when they are needed, if you cant dualbox you can still play both characters, or alternate between them when you are bored playing as 1 of the 2.

[Dragoy]

I started out on PS2 and then got a 2nd account for my PC. So "switching over" isn't really an option unless I delete an account which aint happening.

You should be able to use the “PS2-account” just fine on a PC as well, if that's what you are referring to?

And no, you don't need 'cheats' to use both at the same time on one computer. You can set up multiple windoze environments by using Linux, or VirtualMachine(s), so you don't necessarily need another computer, or use 'h4x' to manipulate the client and violate the User Agreement either.

[Gilraen]

You still playing it on the big huge old boxes of a TV because that's the only time PS2 graphics look good.

PS. Bravo on NOT knowing how consoles work. You can't just make, sell and market a game for a console you did NOT make.
Actually, From Software self-published their recent title Armored Core V in Japan. Been self-publishing for a while now and they're nowhere near as big or influential as Square. There's really nothing stopping Square from doing the same.

And what do you have against CRT-style televisions? Sure, they make terrible computer monitors (I know, I used to use one as such, made games look awesome but text not so much) but is that any reason to hate them? As for his talk of deleting accounts, he clearly dual-boxes and if he can't play both characters at once then that's an obviously wasted $13+ a month. Even you have to agree that that'd be a waste of money.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Actually, From Software self-published their recent title Armored Core V in Japan. Been self-publishing for a while now and they're nowhere near as big or influential as Square. There's really nothing stopping Square from doing the same.

And what do you have against CRT-style televisions? Sure, they make terrible computer monitors (I know, I used to use one as such, made games look awesome but text not so much) but is that any reason to hate them? As for his talk of deleting accounts, he clearly dual-boxes and if he can't play both characters at once then that's an obviously wasted $13+ a month. Even you have to agree that that'd be a waste of money.


Japan is the better country for PS2 full-stop, different rules too.

I do agree with it, but that is SE's fault, with how good Graphics Cards are now, and how low the GPU FFXI takes up is, SE should allow multiple instances of FFXI.

They said they were allowing multiple instances of something, I can only hope this is it. Besides most people have an XBOX 360 now.

I understand the annoyance, but it is what it is.

[SpankWustler]

Actually, From Software self-published their recent title Armored Core V in Japan. Been self-publishing for a while now and they're nowhere near as big or influential as Square. There's really nothing stopping Square from doing the same.

Self-publishing console games in Japan is a whole other animal compared to most countries, although I have no idea if this is due to differences in law or simply large differences in how the markets operate.

I do know it is a whole other animal. An animal that often reproduces via its own younger sister after selecting the correct text options. Never the older sister, though! It is a very persnickety animal.

[Teraniku]

And what do you have against CRT-style televisions? Sure, they make terrible computer monitors (I know, I used to use one as such, made games look awesome but text not so much) but is that any reason to hate them? As for his talk of deleting accounts, he clearly dual-boxes and if he can't play both characters at once then that's an obviously wasted $13+ a month. Even you have to agree that that'd be a waste of money.

CRT TVs rule for Picture Quality, especially the HD ones. The only thing that comes close to it is an LED TV. (You don't need to be in "Optimal view zone" for an LED TV, unlike an LCD.

-The Huge Negatives of a CRT TV is their Bulk and weight. For example my 22" LCD monitor i use weighs in at about 10 pounds (4.5kg) at the most. an equivalent CRT monitor would weigh in at about 50-75 lbs (22.7kg - 34kg) and you'd need 2 people to carry it due to the size of its picture tube.

(I use to work for a CRT manufacturer )

[Dragoy]

-The Huge Negatives of a CRT TV is their Bulk and weight.

What about the eye-strain inducing flicker? =¯=

Of course experiences vary from user to user.

[Gilraen]

You must have really sensitive eyes to notice the refresh rate of a CRT-style TV. Usually, to see that you have to view a TV through a video camera... unless you have video cameras for eyes!

[deces]

I cant wail till when hexbox is on SE's chopping block.

[Dragoy]

I'm not saying I can see it like it can be seen through a camera, but that does not mean that it isn't affecting our eyes!

Though actually, I haven't been watching the TV for months (still have a tubey TV yeah!), and only been staring the LCD instead. Just some days ago, as I looked at such a TV, the picture did seem quite annoying, flickering, and another person who has been watching it, instead of only LCD, did not really notice anything.

I'd first imagine it's just my eyes going, but after I mentioned it to a friend who also has been more or less only looking at LCDs, he'd have the same sort of experiences so we'd conclude it's a bit of a matter of getting used to them.

That's of course an uneducated conclusion, but I can say for sure, that once I switched from a CRT monitor to LCD, my eye-strain levels definitely decreased.

[bungiefanNA]

No, I don't think you understand what piracy is. Making a copy of something, like a movie or a game or OS, then giving that copy away is piracy, therefor illegal. Money doesn't have to change hands for it to be piracy, though it does change how much money in reparations the suing party can get if it ever goes to court. Nor does prior ownership of either individual involved as then it comes down to proving that you own the copied material, and in the case of games with codes and OSes only one person will be able to make that claim. I'll not be a party to such behavior.

Install doesn't ask you for registration codes. Logging in to an existing account doesn't ask for registration codes. Registration codes to make accounts aren't even platform-specific, just region-specific. If the game is installed and you have an account (which would mean you are paying SE for the game), you can log in, regardless of how it was installed. I know of nobody that has been confronted about this, and SE could easily make the game require a means of proof of ownership of the installation media for each platform. PS2 only requires it because of the mandatory region designation on discs which can't be copied, and Xbox 360 requires the disc to launch the game because of MS rules.

Most PC software can install from borrowed media, but some sort of registration code verification makes it useless unless you bought a unique code. FFXI is not such software. It acts like a web browser, it grants you access to servers you have an account with. As such I don't see it as unethical or immoral to install the client with whatever resources I have, when I'm being billed for access to the game. SE apparently doesn't either, seeing as they aren't prosecuting or banning people for doing so.

[IBHalliwellJR]

Greetings,

I’d like to take a moment to clarify which platform Seekers of Adoulin will be available on for those that have been asking. We will continue to support North American FINAL FANTASY XI players on the PlayStation 2, Xbox 360 and PC (Windows) platforms. However, FINAL FANTASY XI: Seekers of Adoulin will only be available on the Xbox 360 and Windows platforms in North America when it is released in 2013.

I find the lack of future Sony Game Console support very disquieting. I fully recognize and understand the aging Sony PS2 console line is coming to an end, YET, Square Enix for Final Fantasy XI isn't offering any Sony Game Console support.

My Son and I recently returned to Final Fantasy XI after being away for a year and our recent investments are in Sony Playstation 3 (with PS2 game support). While I started FFXI with two (2) PS2 systems and later expanded to three systems (for my daughter), those are the system of old. Recently, I started replacing those three systems with PS3 systems, which when you include PS2 support is NOT cheap.

PS3 with FFXI support (e.g. PS2) runs around $400 used in good condition to $1,000 brand new (and yes you can still find the 80 GB PS3 with PS2 support for sale brand new and never registered). It does blow the Sony support mind when you call up to register a "old" PS3 system as brand new, but they do it.

I find it very sad that SE obviously has the PS2 code done, tested, and ready for release but won't give it to non-Japanese. I'm wondering if there is a bias or racial reasoning behind this decision. I don't take this feeling lightly, as I realize from spending time in Japan of the cultural aspect non-Japanese hold and it is NOT a stretch to see where non-Japanese support is simply not considered important or vital.

NOTE: I wouldn't feel this way if the PS2 version didn't exist at all, but it does . . . Also I'm just not understanding why there isn't PS3 support for FFXI, after all PS3 has been out long enough and is still the main gaming console of Sony.

BTW, to those who ask ... well, why not Xbox 360? Before going to the PS3 system, I closely considered the Xbox 360 systems, but choose the PS3 over the 360 for two reasons:

1) Square Enix statement of continued FFXI expansion creation, as long as there were customers. Obviously this is still the case even for PS2!!!!!
2) I saw many YouTube Videos of Xbox 360 having disc eating situations, as well as the unit turning itself into a brick for what sounded like no reasonable reason.

I guess there is a third reason: My Son and Daughter have many PS2 video games, while I don't they do and I didn't want to look at the cost of replacing them (well, some are only on PS2 or PS3 - I think).

At this point, I don't know what to do ... one thought is to go with the Xbox 360, but hey, Square Enix might only support the 360 in South America in 2014 or who knows what ... Once burned one does become shy and by burned I mean .. HONESTLY, I did believe SE when they said they'd continue future expansion support for FFXI, which they're not doing completely / 100%!!!!

Those of us outside Japan are still paying our monthly fees (for me - 3 POL accounts and over 28 characters).

[FrankReynolds]

I find the lack of future Sony Game Console support very disquieting. I fully recognize and understand the aging Sony PS2 console line is coming to an end, YET, Square Enix for Final Fantasy XI isn't offering any Sony Game Console support.

My Son and I recently returned to Final Fantasy XI after being away for a year and our recent investments are in Sony Playstation 3 (with PS2 game support). While I started FFXI with two (2) PS2 systems and later expanded to three systems (for my daughter), those are the system of old. Recently, I started replacing those three systems with PS3 systems, which when you include PS2 support is NOT cheap.

PS3 with FFXI support (e.g. PS2) runs around $400 used in good condition to $1,000 brand new (and yes you can still find the 80 GB PS3 with PS2 support for sale brand new and never registered). It does blow the Sony support mind when you call up to register a "old" PS3 system as brand new, but they do it.

I find it very sad that SE obviously has the PS2 code done, tested, and ready for release but won't give it to non-Japanese. I'm wondering if there is a bias or racial reasoning behind this decision. I don't take this feeling lightly, as I realize from spending time in Japan of the cultural aspect non-Japanese hold and it is NOT a stretch to see where non-Japanese support is simply not considered important or vital.

NOTE: I wouldn't feel this way if the PS2 version didn't exist at all, but it does . . . Also I'm just not understanding why there isn't PS3 support for FFXI, after all PS3 has been out long enough and is still the main gaming console of Sony.

BTW, to those who ask ... well, why not Xbox 360? Before going to the PS3 system, I closely considered the Xbox 360 systems, but choose the PS3 over the 360 for two reasons:

1) Square Enix statement of continued FFXI expansion creation, as long as there were customers. Obviously this is still the case even for PS2!!!!!
2) I saw many YouTube Videos of Xbox 360 having disc eating situations, as well as the unit turning itself into a brick for what sounded like no reasonable reason.

I guess there is a third reason: My Son and Daughter have many PS2 video games, while I don't they do and I didn't want to look at the cost of replacing them (well, some are only on PS2 or PS3 - I think).

At this point, I don't know what to do ... one thought is to go with the Xbox 360, but hey, Square Enix might only support the 360 in South America in 2014 or who knows what ... Once burned one does become shy and by burned I mean .. HONESTLY, I did believe SE when they said they'd continue future expansion support for FFXI, which they're not doing completely / 100%!!!!

Those of us outside Japan are still paying our monthly fees (for me - 3 POL accounts and over 28 characters).

Get the PC version. There are a lot of reasons why most MMOs are on the PC. Too many to name them all. Do yourself a favor and make the switch. You won't regret it unless you really want to hate it.

[Arbalest]

I find the lack of future Sony Game Console support very disquieting. I fully recognize and understand the aging Sony PS2 console line is coming to an end, YET, Square Enix for Final Fantasy XI isn't offering any Sony Game Console support.

My Son and I recently returned to Final Fantasy XI after being away for a year and our recent investments are in Sony Playstation 3 (with PS2 game support). While I started FFXI with two (2) PS2 systems and later expanded to three systems (for my daughter), those are the system of old. Recently, I started replacing those three systems with PS3 systems, which when you include PS2 support is NOT cheap.

PS3 with FFXI support (e.g. PS2) runs around $400 used in good condition to $1,000 brand new (and yes you can still find the 80 GB PS3 with PS2 support for sale brand new and never registered). It does blow the Sony support mind when you call up to register a "old" PS3 system as brand new, but they do it.

I find it very sad that SE obviously has the PS2 code done, tested, and ready for release but won't give it to non-Japanese. I'm wondering if there is a bias or racial reasoning behind this decision. I don't take this feeling lightly, as I realize from spending time in Japan of the cultural aspect non-Japanese hold and it is NOT a stretch to see where non-Japanese support is simply not considered important or vital.

NOTE: I wouldn't feel this way if the PS2 version didn't exist at all, but it does . . . Also I'm just not understanding why there isn't PS3 support for FFXI, after all PS3 has been out long enough and is still the main gaming console of Sony.

BTW, to those who ask ... well, why not Xbox 360? Before going to the PS3 system, I closely considered the Xbox 360 systems, but choose the PS3 over the 360 for two reasons:

1) Square Enix statement of continued FFXI expansion creation, as long as there were customers. Obviously this is still the case even for PS2!!!!!
2) I saw many YouTube Videos of Xbox 360 having disc eating situations, as well as the unit turning itself into a brick for what sounded like no reasonable reason.

I guess there is a third reason: My Son and Daughter have many PS2 video games, while I don't they do and I didn't want to look at the cost of replacing them (well, some are only on PS2 or PS3 - I think).

At this point, I don't know what to do ... one thought is to go with the Xbox 360, but hey, Square Enix might only support the 360 in South America in 2014 or who knows what ... Once burned one does become shy and by burned I mean .. HONESTLY, I did believe SE when they said they'd continue future expansion support for FFXI, which they're not doing completely / 100%!!!!

Those of us outside Japan are still paying our monthly fees (for me - 3 POL accounts and over 28 characters).

MMOs are on PCs for a reason. In this day and age, with decent computers EXTREMELY cheap, there's no reason to not have one or two in the house. Besides, FFXI is so old you can basically run it on a toaster.

PS2 is what limits the game's true potential, and I for one think they should drop support for PS2 entirely.

[Tickmeoff]

BTW, to those who ask ... well, why not Xbox 360?

Nobody is asking this.

Everyone is asking "why would you spend several thousand dollars on THREE PS3s in order to play the inferior PS2 version of a game?" You could have picked up 3 half decent PCs for significantly less money.

I hope we see PS2 support dropped completely at some point. It's only holding the game back.

[hideka]

I find it very sad that SE obviously has the PS2 code done, tested, and ready for release but won't give it to non-Japanese. I'm wondering if there is a bias or racial reasoning behind this decision. I don't take this feeling lightly, as I realize from spending time in Japan of the cultural aspect non-Japanese hold and it is NOT a stretch to see where non-Japanese support is simply not considered important or vital.



please break your keyboard and never post in another online forum again if all your going to tout off is stupid Americanized logic like this. People like you are the reason people like me have no faith in the american society anymore. i bet your one of those people who cant miss an episode of american idol or *inster any random other horrible reality tv show here*. please stop being a tool. thank you.

[JackDaniels]

please break your keyboard and never post in another online forum again if all your going to tout off is stupid Americanized logic like this. People like you are the reason people like me have no faith in the american society anymore. i bet your one of those people who cant miss an episode of american idol or *inster any random other horrible reality tv show here*. please stop being a tool. thank you.

Speaking of tools, I think your signature could be at least twice as large, it only takes up one screens length.

[hideka]

meh im stuck with this untill i can figure out a way to incorporate both SE MMO's into one snazzy signature.

[Limecat]

SE, I dare you to add a foot armor for the city in Adoulin that works like the national aketons, called Sneakers of Adoulin.