SMN Atmas

[Strife]

{Help me out!} what are the best atma combos for SMN?
I recently got back to the game and am missing a lot of atma this is something I'm looking to redress so I'd like to know what're the must haves & best combos for SMN. I guessing: (replacing an atma with MM if refresh is needed)

For MAB; Ultimate, Hell's guardian (lol how may people actually have this?), Beyond/ other MAB atmas or is it better to stack up on/ mix elemental attack + atmas?

For PC: RR, Sanguine Scythe (for crit hit dmg) & Stout Arm for att & str or a dex atma or scorp queen's for more crit hit rate?

& for solo tanking: 3x -DT atma (-30%?) or Mounted Champion & other regen atmas or what other combinations work best? Someone told me you could get your avatar with their native -DT to something crazy like -90% but they couldn't remember if this was -DT or -MDT the latter sounds more likely to me.

[Dallas]

Solo/duo tanking: Ducal guard + Mounted Champion + ???

If you are duoing, only one player needs to tank, the other can DD. The DD's pet will die but the player will be safe to resummon.

[radicaldreamer]

MAB atmas don't work for the avatars do they? Just for yourself right? I dunno if I've seen any pet enhancing atma. :-( Dallas' idea is a pretty good one though, just boost your def and refresh so you stay alive if smn dies.

[jeffanddane]

all atmas extend to your pets :D!

[Papesse]

MAB : Ultimate, Minikin/Hell's Guardian and Beyond/Any "Major" Elemental Dmg Atma if you have merited something else than Heavenly Strike.
PC : Razed Ruins, Voracious Violet and Gnarled Horn (I personally prefer Harvester)
Solo : Ducal Guard, Mounted Champion (if you fight a VERY strong/difficult NM)/Savior (I'm a lucky one lol and it's a great atma for Smn)/Voracious Violet/Beyond and Razed Ruins/Minikin depending on your preferances.

The Critical hit DMG from Sanguine Scythe or the Attack from Stout Arms don't add much power to Predator Claw.

[Infidi]

I use for MAB:Beyond(don't have ultimate) Minkin and Apoc(Auto RR3 and triple attack on avatar) when I'm duoing.
PC: RR MM and Apoc. From my experience if you dont have alot of Magic attack bonus gear RR alone does a crap ton more damage then Magic BPs. I mainly just use RR MM(For refresh mainly) and Apoc for 'zombie killing' an NM. lol Plus its always good so you dont gotta worry about /whm and casting RR1 over and over. :P

[Dallas]

Dallas' idea is a pretty good one though, just boost your def and refresh so you stay alive if smn dies.
All atma works on pets. My suggestion is pretty much standard now. Savior is better than Mounted Champion, but I'm not there yet.

In case you missed the hubbub, Ducal Guard was originally released with -50% DT on a successful guard. Avatars already had this ability, and DG made avatars immune to physical attacks.

Then it was "fixed with haste," and avatars no longer get more than 87.5% PDT. It's still crazy powerful, as our avatars last 4 times as long as before. That's where Mounted Champion comes into play. 20 regen = 400 hp/minute. Avatars can absorb 3200 damage a minute with these two atma alone. Some avatars get healing pacts, so this number climbs even higher.

Avatars are also near immune to the element they are strong against. Ramuh > water damage, for example. If an NM has a single element, the combo above means the strong avatar will likely never die. Certain painful NMs (namely Tunga) immediately became trivial.

The weakness of this build is poison/bio/death. Even so, the poison takes long enough to kill the avatar that you can resummon with ease.

If you can't kite with these two atma, you can't kite it. The downside is you will kill much slower than other solo jobs that don't need defensive atma.

[Zad]

I was thinking about getting savior. All you have to do is do every quest/dom op, including those quest from sapper (bastion)?

[Crisco]

I was thinking about getting savior. All you have to do is do every quest/dom op, including those quest from sapper (bastion)?

'All you have to do' ... lol. Anyway, I believe you're correct; complete all quests in all abyssea zones (I'm unsure about dom/resistance, but I would assume those as well).

To the OP, Dallas and Papesse pretty much nailed it on the head; not much more to say there. Good luck!

[Zad]

Lol yea..its gonna be awhile

[Strife]

Thanks everyone for the info I appreciate you all taking the time to respond.^^


MAB : Ultimate, Minikin/Hell's Guardian and Beyond/Any "Major" Elemental Dmg Atma if you have merited something else than Heavenly Strike.

This is what I'm confused about what's better a MAB major or an 'element' attack + major atma for 75 BP? Would 3 MAB be better than 2 MAB & an 'element' attack + or would 2 'element' attack + & 1 MAB do more damage?

So for PC it's just crit rate all the way over anything else & for avatar tanking DG/Savour/MC or a mix of those & DD or refresh kk thanks.

Thanks Dallas for clearing that up about DG for me I did miss it. ><

Avatars guard? I did not know this though I guess since their damage is H2H it makes sense. Out of curiosity do they do the guard animation because I have never noticed it lol.

“Enhances all status effects” on savour gives 30 to all your base stats (MND, STR etc.)?

[jeffanddane]

What if just what if

Atma of the GM= Turns you pet into 5 GM body guards that are as big as bahumut and can one shout gm's or gods!!!!!! But cant kill Mandies or rabbits o.o;;

[Nacht]

This is what I'm confused about what's better a MAB major or an 'element' attack + major atma for 75 BP? Would 3 MAB be better than 2 MAB & an 'element' attack + or would 2 'element' attack + & 1 MAB do more damage?


MAB supreme > element major > MAB major

[Papesse]

To my knowledge, an Atma with "Elemental ATK Major" (+40%) is better/stronger than an Atma with "MAB Superior" (+50 MAB). Thunderstorm does more dmg with Minikin + Lion + Blinding Horn than Minikin + Lion/Blinding Horn + Ultimate.

Savior gives +30 to all stats (STR, VIT etc... but not HP and MP) on both the player and pet. What makes it so good for Smn is the "Occasionally absorbs damage taken". When it procs (which is common), avatar take the full dmg : Something hitting an avatar (with Ducal Guard) for 30~ dmg will sometimes heal it for 300~ dmg. It's also very nice against NMs relying on heavy magical AoE (like Azdaja and his Cyclone Wing / aga IV) since your avatar has a small chance of surviving/being healed.
While Mountain Champion is a good atma, it sacrifices too much fire power for the sole purpose of having to recall our avatar the less possible. (in my opinion but it's still a great atma)

[Dallas]

Mounted Champion is an "easy" atma. That's its purpose. :)

[Nacht]

To my knowledge, an Atma with "Elemental ATK Major" (+40%) is better/stronger than an Atma with "MAB Superior" (+50 MAB). Thunderstorm does more dmg with Minikin + Lion + Blinding Horn than Minikin + Lion/Blinding Horn + Ultimate.


I personally tested Smoldering, Lone Wolf, and Beyond to be 30%. A source that I trusted tested Lion/Blinding horn to be 30%. Gales, many sources reported to be 30%, but I didn't verify myself. I had previously assumed that all major attack atmas were 30%, but another source reports that some may be 40%. I plan to go through and check all the atmas that I have once the servers come back up.

Assuming 30% damage increase, you'd need 66 MAB (without ultimate) for Lion/Blinding horn to be equal in damage. More MAB and Lion is better. Less and Ultimate is better.
Assuming 30% damage increase, You'd need 116 MAB (without ultimate) for Ultimate + 1 of (Lion/Blinding horn) to equal Lion+Blinding Horn.


Assuming 40% damage increase, you'd need 25 MAB (without ultimate) for Lion/Blinding horn to be equal in damage.
Assuming 40% damage increase, You'd need 30 MAB (without ultimate) for Ultimate + 1 of (Lion/Blinding horn) to equal Lion+Blinding Horn.

[Crisco]

This is what I'm confused about what's better a MAB major or an 'element' attack + major atma for 75 BP? Would 3 MAB be better than 2 MAB & an 'element' attack + or would 2 'element' attack + & 1 MAB do more damage?


From my experience, 3 MAB atmas (beyond, ultimate, baying moon) is MAB overkill; either you hit the cap or there's seriously diminishing returns. It would provide the same damage, or less, as beyond, ultimate, minikin. Best bet is to go as much +% for the particular element, as that does not have a hard/soft cap; things like INT and MAB do, obviously.

My current Heavenly Strike cap with MM/Ultimate/Beyond is about 5.3k with 3/5 +2 (head,body,legs), rest AF3+1, and MAB+2 staff. That is, of course, aside the crazy random blood boon procs (ie: 7760 Heavenly Strike to a dhalmel in [A]Altep).

[MrButter]

Don't underestimate the power of Lion/Blinding Horn and Ramuh's Thunderstorm. You can get some very impressive damage off of it, especially with merits and mana cede.

[Papesse]

I will also check once the servers are back. I'm 99% certain MM + Lion + Blinding Horn beats MM + Ultimate + Lion or even Ultimate + Lion + Blinding Horn. (and 100% sure MM + Claw outdmg MM + Ultimate for Geocrush, with or without Baying Moon)

[Dallas]

Thanks Dallas for clearing that up about DG for me I did miss it. ><

Avatars guard? I did not know this though I guess since their damage is H2H it makes sense. Out of curiosity do they do the guard animation because I have never noticed it lol.

No animation at 100% guard rate. Now we know. :)

[Malamasala]

What is this talk about guard? They simply have 50% physical damage reduction. You know, like how you have damage reduction on slimes (unless slimes are awesome MNKs with guard).

I also do not understand the point of savior atma. Stats do nothing for us, and resist is pointless except for amnesia. The damage absorption exists on other atmas. Atma of Aquatic ardor for example. (And depending on what you are fighting, a physical absorption may be enough since avatars die fast if they are incorrectly nuked anyway)

I'm interested in hearing if it is 30% or 40% on majors though.

[Neisan_Quetz]

EDIT: True for the Smn not really benefitting from the stat increase unless you have Twilight cloak or something...

[Papesse]

Savior gives +30 to all stats (STR, VIT etc... but not HP and MP) on both the player and pet.

The "Occasionally absorbs damage taken" has a much higher proc rate than any other atma of the same kind. Atma of Aquatic Ardor or Luminous Wings have an abyssal proc.
Savior is simply a better tool than using a regen atma in my opinion but any Smn can live without. If I'm not soloing/avatar tanking then I take something else.

[Dallas]

What is this talk about guard? They simply have 50% physical damage reduction. You know, like how you have damage reduction on slimes (unless slimes are awesome MNKs with guard).

Look at Ducal Guard. You have to either convince yourself that:

1) SE accidentally coded DG so that avatars AND ONLY avatars are always considered to be at 50% health.
2) SE added a cap without fixing the error

Or

1) Avatars have always had 100% guard rate, -50% DT when guarding. DG stacked, working as intended.
2) SE added a cap

One requires a significant amount of fail, and the other is a simple oversight. Believe what you will, we've moved on.

[Strife]

I personally tested Smoldering, Lone Wolf, and Beyond to be 30%. A source that I trusted tested Lion/Blinding horn to be 30%. Gales, many sources reported to be 30%, but I didn't verify myself. I had previously assumed that all major attack atmas were 30%, but another source reports that some may be 40%. I plan to go through and check all the atmas that I have once the servers come back up.

Assuming 30% damage increase, you'd need 66 MAB (without ultimate) for Lion/Blinding horn to be equal in damage. More MAB and Lion is better. Less and Ultimate is better.
Assuming 30% damage increase, You'd need 116 MAB (without ultimate) for Ultimate + 1 of (Lion/Blinding horn) to equal Lion+Blinding Horn.


Assuming 40% damage increase, you'd need 25 MAB (without ultimate) for Lion/Blinding horn to be equal in damage.
Assuming 40% damage increase, You'd need 30 MAB (without ultimate) for Ultimate + 1 of (Lion/Blinding horn) to equal Lion+Blinding Horn.

Your maths confuses my poor maths incompatible brain. ><
Assuming the atmas you suggest where would you get the MAB from (assuming your not using the avatar of the day)? Pet MAB gear & cruor/ MM INT buffs? Also what are you comparing the combinations to when you say "to be equal in damage"?

The wiki page for magic damage calculation has been edited & no longer has an example equation >< I tried adding it up myself but I really don't have a maths brain. Maths & my brain are like binary stars, they may circle each other distrustfully but if they ever come together my head would probably explode.

Could someone with a maths brain do me a favour & maybe write out the equation & how each element is calculated (I mean how you add 1 & 2 together then floor it & add 2 & 3 and so on not how you work out what the weather bonus equals or ect. those parts I can work out I just seem to get turned around adding the whole thing up) so I could try & reverse engineer it to try & understand the benefit of MAB vs affinity, I'd really appreciate it. Also how are you supposed to work out a targets INT? Is there a page somewhere that lists INT by monster/ level?

[Malamasala]

One requires a significant amount of fail, and the other is a simple oversight. Believe what you will, we've moved on.

From my experience, "significant amount of fail" is a synonym for Summoner and has always been. Spirits anyone? Summoning skill over cap system anyone? +1 second to 30 second wards extension anyone?

I think siphon is probably the only thing SE ever got right.

[Dallas]

That's funny to me, seeing how quickly we were *slightly* nerfed. SMN is inches away from insanely powerful. SE has even converted my opinion on Favor.

[Malamasala]

I'd love to hear what made you change your mind about Favor. I haven't noticed anything different and only seen even less use now that I have more -perpetuation gear.

[Papesse]

Here's are my findings about our magical atmas. I have been somewhat surprised.

I was wearing Shareeravadi +2/Eidolon Pendant/Tiresia's Cape/Caller's Sash (Pet MAB+17), Caller's Doublet +2 (BP DMG +10%) and Caller's Spats +2 (50% TP bonus)
The target was Flame Skimmer. (who seems to have some form of strong MDB/MDT but whatever)


Thunderstorm (lvl 1)
Base DMG : 1007
Lion : 1310 (+30% confirmed)
Blinding Horn : 1310 (+30% confirmed)

Lion/Blinding Horn : 1611
MM/Lion : 1589
Ultimate/Lion : 1711

Lion/Blinding Horn/MM : 1956
Lion/MM/Ultimate : 2077
Lion/Blinding Horn/Ultimate : 2106


Geocrush (lvl 5)
Base DMG : 1464
Claw : 1903 (+30% confirmed)
MM : 1730
Ultimate : 1914

Claw/MM/Savior (total INT+80) : 2459
Claw/Ultimate/Baying Moon (total MAB+80) : 2836
Claw/MM/Ultimate : 2939


Grand Fall (lvl 1)
Base DMG : 1007
Noxious Fang : 1410 (+40% confirmed)


Wind Blade (lvl 1)
Base DMG : 1007
Gales : 1310 (+30% confirmed)


Meteor Strike (lvl 1)
Base DMG : 1007
Smoldering Sky : 1310 (+30% confirmed)
Lone Wolf : 1310 (+30% confirmed)


Heavenly Strike (lvl 1)
Base DMG : 1007
Baying Moon : 1193
Beyond : 1551 (+30% confirmed)


Lunar Bay
Base DMG : 975
Cosmos : 1366 (+40% confirmed)


Holy Mist
Base DMG : 699
Holy Mountain : 699 (???? bugged...)

Meteorite
Base DMG : 543
Holy Mountain : 543...

Conclusions (or Confirmations I should say) :
- MAB Superior > Element Major > INT Superior (my apologies, you were right Nacht)
- Noxious Fang and Cosmos have +40% DMG element.
- All others atmas with Element Major have the same potency (+30%). Beyond is of course above everything because of the MAB+30.
- Holy Mountain do not have any DMG bonus on Light.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Did you test Beyond? It also has light MATK, would confirm whethr or not it's holy mountain that's bugged, or Carbuncle.

[Malamasala]

I was thinking that myself. Beyond should also add damage to Light attacks, though if my memory is right I always felt it was lackluster as well. (Like doing 700-800 damage holy mist, and that it had 30 MAB as well so it seemed way too low)

But if you think about it holy was nerfed back in the days, so it could just be SE's old nerf kicking in that is in place to make WHMs less powerful. Perhaps Holy is simply "unmodifiable" since then.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Holy Mist is lackluster because Carbuncle's job is Whm really, he has no natural MAB traits. Not to mention it's coupled with low base damage in the first place last I checked.

[Karbuncle]

The combo i use for Magical BPs is Beyond/Minikin/Ultimate (Cause I use Shiva almost exclusively, But i change it up sometimes based on Mob Resistance (To Ice, or to Magic in general) and mix things up with Garuda.)

That isn't the "Best Damage" combo, But i Use Minikin cause it does offer 50INT (about 25MAB) and 10mp/tic Refresh which i would never give up XD.

For Physical BPs i usually do VV/RR/Mini for Damage/MP conservation. again, not the best in terms of raw damage... but 10mp/tic Refresh I find hard to give up.

But I'm usually low-manning so i don't get Ballad III/II, refresh II, most of the time =x, with those theres more leniency :D.



Also, As far as Holy mist/Meteorite Goes, I'm 99% positive its effected by Beyond/Ultimate/etc. Holy Mountain is probably just broken.

I thought Holy Mountain gave light Resistance though? Not Light Elemental Attack? its been a long time since i checked it.

[Neisan_Quetz]

It says it gives both but it might be a mistranslation, or broken.

[Karbuncle]

It says it gives both but it might be a mistranslation, or broken.

Most "Gain Full Benefits of XXday/weather" don't come with the Elemental:Major, Maybe it is a glitch. I could go check it out easily on SMN right now, Just pop Carby, Hit something in the face with Holy Mist, Then put on the Atma of the Holy Mountain, Repeat, then Atma of the Beyond (Same :Major Value) and check the 3.

Would be pretty obvious in that light. I'll go do that.

[Karbuncle]

Okay. Test is Finished. For the test i wore Carby-Mitts, Fay Crozier.
Atmas that stayed on: Minikin.
Ability Used: Holy Mist

Test1: Atma of the Holy Mountain
Target: Manigordo
DMG: 925

Test2: No Extra Atma
Target: Manigordo
DMG:909 (could be mob level variation)

Test3: Atma of the Beyond
Target: Manigordo
DMG: 1436


my Conclusion, even discounting the 30MAB from Beyond, Its enough to see that Atma of the Holy Mountain is broken, and does not give any Benefits to light Elemental Damage (At least to Avatars)

[Dallas]

I'd love to hear what made you change your mind about Favor. I haven't noticed anything different and only seen even less use now that I have more -perpetuation gear.

24% DA with Ifrits Favor and somewhere around 440 SMN magic, per wiki. I still haven't figured out how to abuse it, but I want to.

[Malamasala]

Hot numbers. Though I've never noticed any awesomeness from using it when I tested. Perhaps most people have too much haste for it to really be noticable? Constant attacks vs constant attacks with extra attacks added.

Should you get some 50% DA with WAR sub? Or am I just wishing too much bonus on the DA part of WAR?

[Dallas]

I suppose you could use it on yourself, but you'd be wearing all +smn magic gear, which sucks, and losing the benefit of stacked haste which sucks more. 23% gear + Hasso + Hastega is as good as 92% double attack.

I'm thinking the practical application of Ifrit's favor will be in a Emp Weapon WS situation that does not normally get the aftermath bonus. I'm guessing Myrkr doesn't double attack though. 120% MP anyone?