NEO Nyzul 2.0

[Ultrajake]

Is there any freaking way to finish this 1-100 and kill boss for armor without cheating. People online on forums are posting winning, but every single absolute one of them has to flee hack/lamp .dat hack/clipping hack/god mode hack!!! Is SE gonna fix this, or have they stopped banning people for doing this because the only way it seems to even get close to beating this right now is by cheating. ??? unless you have 6 char with 99 relics including 4 DD and 2 SCH that absolutely still even though they are geared well and play well fail if anyone dies, or if they get shitty floors...

[MarkovChain]

The amount of DD with 99 relic or SCh doesn't matter. It's pure luck you have to roll ~9 floor jumps 7+ times. To answer your question no it's not possible to reach floor 100 without cheating.

[Alkimi]

It's very possible but it's just really unlikely. Certain floors (lamp order, anything where you have to kill sky/GK NMs etc.) will eat up too much time and probably kill any chance of reaching 100.

On top of that you need a lot of luck with floors, without any form of mods/hacks a good group should be able to clear 15-16 floors or thereabouts so would need to average 6-7 floors per jump, taking into account that floors from 92+ will reroll if it puts you over 100 making that section normally take longer.

Probably been said before but yeah, 2xSCH and 4 well geared DDs is pretty much essential to give you any chance.

[MarkovChain]

It's impossible to clear 15 average floors without cheat. There is always a minimum running per floor, it's not farfetched to consider that you need to run as much as the distance from PJ "signet" to ¨PJ"guidestone" on average per floor which takes 50 second (yes!) so you spend nearly 15 minutes running, and then each floor requires specific action and you are allowed one minute per floor max ? That's impossible or I want proof of the opposite. A simple "code lamps" floor which may look like a quick floor will take more than a minute since you can't see through walls and when the lamp is found everyone has to cross the zone AGAIN. An order lamp is going to take 30 seconds per attempt and you 'll need probably at least 3 or 4. It's safe to say that anyone with a level 99 Nyzul gear has been cheating.

[MrPeet]

Did the development team play Nyzul Isle Uncharted before it was realeased? Was it on the test server? What was the feed back from the test server? Has the development team ever commented on NIU?

What could the development team do except make it extremely easy to get to floor 100 to resolve this issue. I can't see them changing it to be honest. Get to floor 80x125+ for a full set or get to floor 100 once or twice year if your lucky. Goodluck, Regards The Dev team.

[Demon6324236]

It just follows what this game has become. Everything is luck, not skill, not effort. VW drops, all luck, can take 1 kill or 300 to get the same item. Nyzul, can get screwed on random floors & on what you do each floor, if you get bad floors and bad randoms, thats to bad, you lose. Luck has become part of our world of FFXI, its what we get now, if your lucky, you get somewhere, if your unlucky, your doomed.

[Ophannus]

-Make it so that the timer does not start until a Destination Floor is chosen so that players can freely buff up, get items from the chest and get ready before starting.
-Add time extension chests randomly from mobs.
-Remove the Pathos thing or at least the restrictions because the event is already extremely difficult dealing with the luck factor of Jump floors. It stinks when we're making good floor jumps quickly then get stuck on a boss floor with weapon skills restricted and no matter how well you did before, you'll now lose because of the time sink.

Though I suppose all those things are meant to filter out as many people from winning 100 as possible to make the 100 floor gear 'rare' and they figured most people would achieve 80 gear and 100's through the 1/25 gold astrariums but didn't count on thousands of people cheating.

[Monchat]

It's very possible but it's just really unlikely. Certain floors (lamp order, anything where you have to kill sky/GK NMs etc.) will eat up too much time and probably kill any chance of reaching 100.

On top of that you need a lot of luck with floors, without any form of mods/hacks a good group should be able to clear 15-16 floors or thereabouts so would need to average 6-7 floors per jump, taking into account that floors from 92+ will reroll if it puts you over 100 making that section normally take longer.

Probably been said before but yeah, 2xSCH and 4 well geared DDs is pretty much essential to give you any chance.
The essential: 2xsch and 4 DD, flee boots, 1 stack of oils and powder, appropriate temps. But you cannot fight the random. What is goign to eat your time:

1 - lamp order: 2-3min since its goign to be 30s per attempt.
2 - kill all: even if there arent many mobs contrary to 75 nyzul (it seems) it still takes ~2minutes.
3- bad ???floor jumps.
you warp on average by 5 floors, so the chance of getting enough warps (~15) to reach 100 is already small. Say you get to 100 within 15 jumps. that's 2 minutes or less per floor. You need ot have almost no "lamp order" and "kill all" floors, and many "specified enemy". Cheats allow to clear "specified enemy(ies)" and "lamp order" in like 1mn but if you dont cheat you're fucked up.

Nyzul is impossible, winning it is like having 100% crit hit rate outside abyssea.

[Concerned4FFxi]

a good group can make it to 80 without cheating, hence to get to 100 you need luck AND skilled players. We've gotten to 90+ two times, the one time we could have gotten to 100 but the floor 80 boss killed a DD, then another died fighting a random nm agro on 92 or 94...point is it is possible just alot of luck is needed to win without cheating.

That said, yes, i've read about alot of cheaters getting temp banned and i'm not sure but SE must have stopped. I believe anyone with 5/5 niur gear has cheated. Someone who just has one or two peices may not have cheated.

[Sakima]

To say anyone that has 3 or more pieces of hq gear is cheating is completely ignorant. It is possible to beat ny isle without any forms of cheating just do no expect to accomplish it on a daily basis . The event does have a learning curve in order to succeed so i can see why people that are unfamiliar with mechanics are frustrated. Your already failing 100% by not trying the event so if you want the gear you might as well try, best advice i can say is practice makes perfect and even then you will run in to horrible jumps/floors. I am positive that none in my current group uses any form of tools like lamp order/wire mode/clipper as we are always splitting up to cover ground, still having deal with 5 order lamps by in the order they where found which i don't mind so much these days versus a huge kill all floor or a boss that feels they are 5 mins away from the start point. The event is very much luck based at times but there are ways to increase your chances without cheating that involves playing at a fast pace and concentration from everyone. Many times we have come across 90+ runs where using lamp order or knowing where everything was would of resulted in a win so i see the frustration, we get over and still plug away at the event since everyone in the group agrees that its not worth the risk in getting banned. Cant say my group has the best progression in gear but i am content in the gear we have achieved when the stars align on a winning run. Funny story about lamp orders had a run where i was the one using sprinters drink was a 3 lamp order since i was the one ahead with flee i hit 1st lamp > found 2 hit > found 3rd hit couple seconds later floor objective complete not even 1 minute used on the floor had we not been so lucky we still would of accomplished the order in a timely manner. Also if you have aggro around a lamp learn to turn it on even with a couple mobs hitting you instead of wasting your groups precious minutes/seconds fighting the mob. Wouldn't dare do nyzul without x2 sch x2 body boost. Good luck on coming across a winning floor jump layout as i call it.

[Divinius]

People in this thread really need to learn the difference between "impossible" and "improbable".

[larrymc]

If your not using 3rd party tools & dat mods - getting to floor 100 NIv2 is very much like getting one of the body pieces in VW that has a drop rate of less than 1%. You can do everything right in NIv2 - have 4 strong DD, 2 SCH, flee boots - and the vast majority of the time you will come up short. There was a video of a JP group to got to floor 100 without any extra tools or mods that I studied carefully - they ended the run with 9 minutes to spare.

The most important factor about the run was - they jumped 8 to 9 floors *every time*, and all of their lamp floors were "code", and they had many "1 enemy" floors.

So - the most important factor is luck.

NIv2 is working exactly the way SE wants it to work - they want groups to just spam it over, and over, and over, and over, and over, until they finally hit that lucky set of floors.

Its not like the old NI, where once you get a good setup your chances of clearing your set of floor was 100%.

It is designed as a time sink to keep you playing until you hit that "lucky" floor combination.

Many groups have just given the virtual middle finger to SE by using 3rd party tools to greatly reduce the luck factor - and I think it is fair to say that anyone with more than 2 pieces of 100 gear at this point is using 3rd party tools.

[hiko]

It is designed as a time sink to keep you playing until you hit that "lucky" floor combination.


then easy way to do so: make a weekly bonanza!

[MarkovChain]

We've gotten to 90+ two times, the one time we could have gotten to 100
Without seeing through walls ? Without changing the lamps names ?


It is designed as a time sink to keep you playing until you hit that "lucky" floor combination.


This event had been designed by someone that didn't think more like 1 minute. I mean serisouly did they never heard of the trick to see through wall and dat mods ?

[MarkovChain]

TFunny story about lamp orders had a run where i was the one using sprinters drink was a 3 lamp order since i was the one ahead with flee i hit 1st lamp > found 2 hit > found 3rd hit couple seconds later floor objective complete not even 1 minute used on the floor had we not been so lucky we still would of accomplished the order in a timely manner.

Yeah noone is seriously beileving you, I mean hey guys I found the first lamp ; how did you know it was the first lamp ? Dude there is absoultely no way to increase your success rate. I'm telling you your members have cheats they don't tell about.

[wish12oz]

When I was doing this event, I only saw order lamp floors once every other run, if not less. I don't know why so many people complain about them. This event is actually based entirely on gear and the people you're playing with. Better geared people who know what theyre doing will clear more floors on average than poorly geared players, and increasing your floor average, even by only 1 or 2 per run, vastly increases your ability to reach 100.

Saying it's all luck at this point just shows that you're a terrible player. Sure, having bad luck will screw you over, (I remember once jumping 7 times before clearing floor 20 lol) but good groups will win with average luck on floor jumps, and amazing groups win with below average floor jumps.

EDIT: And seriously, 2x SCH and 4x good DD is required. Going in with anything else is asking to not reach 100.

[MarkovChain]

I suppose this is where BG gimps show us a video of their awesome-cheatless skills. But obviously they won't.

[Sakima]

Yeah noone is seriously beileving you, I mean hey guys I found the first lamp ; how did you know it was the first lamp ? Dude there is absoultely no way to increase your success rate. I'm telling you your members have cheats they don't tell about.

All 3 lamps where on the same side. I hit the lamps in relation to the runic, so you understand it was the closest lamp to runic portal that i decided to hit first, then 2nd closest then 3rd which happened to be the order. I did not suck my thumb saying oh could this be the first lamp i just hit as soon as i came across them (sprinters drink) knowing the people behind me are smart enough to stand by on the lamps i left behind on the chance it would of been the wrong order. You obviously don't believe because your group has been incapable to clear it without tools? So because your group hasn't been able to beat it you makes you the standard? Ignorance is bliss. Do you even use x2 sch or is it a party of 6 monks? Ever think about taking a dragoon for angon, to improve your kill speed drastically on boss mobs or that horrible pudding that likes to spawn with pdt?

[MarkovChain]

The fact that you insist on killing speed in your argument against my statement proves my point. It's pretty obious that the killing speed is not what matters. The floors that matters are "code lamps" "order lamps" "enemies" the other are quick. The floors that don't matters are killall because each melee is unlikely to have more than 2 mobs to kill...

[Okipuit]

Hey everyone,

The new Nyzul was not designed in such a way that it is impossible to clear. We understand that it is a challenge to reach and complete floor 100, but please keep in mind that successful runs offers guaranteed rewards. In addition, the development team was able to introduce rewards with some highly beneficial stats due to the level of difficulty associated with getting to and conquering floor 100. That said, there aren't any plans to simplify the journey up to the top

[Raksha]

Hey everyone,

The new Nyzul was not designed in such a way that it is impossible to clear. We understand that it is a challenge to reach and complete floor 100, but please keep in mind that successful runs offers guaranteed rewards. In addition, the development team was able to introduce rewards with some highly beneficial stats due to the level of difficulty associated with getting to and conquering floor 100. That said, there aren't any plans to simplify the journey up to the top

Son, I am dissapoint.

[MarkovChain]

I promise we'll do our best to guess 1/1 on lamps and pretend it's all luck.

[Juilan]

Hey everyone,

The new Nyzul was not designed in such a way that it is impossible to clear. We understand that it is a challenge to reach and complete floor 100, but please keep in mind that successful runs offers guaranteed rewards. In addition, the development team was able to introduce rewards with some highly beneficial stats due to the level of difficulty associated with getting to and conquering floor 100. That said, there aren't any plans to simplify the journey up to the top

Can we Open Source the game?

[Nala]

if they decide to make any further changes to NI, it would be great if they could eliminate or greatly reduce the delay between failed lamp order or timed (jic non cheaters failed to locate all lamps)

[Luvbunny]

I think he/she was trying to word it that the new neo nyzul was designed so that it is impossible to clear without the help of cheating/hack tools and rotating door of scholars. Better get used to this guys, ALL upcoming contents after the "much reviled" Abyssea and Voidwatch is going to be in this direction. They are basically in the purging mode of all current subscribers to get us all ready for FF14 Version 2.0. And the attitude of the current group of developers is exactly the opposite of the FF14 groups. I guarantee that Legion, Neo Limbus, Neo Salvage, Neo Einherjar, dungeon crawlers, monster battler, etc.... are going to be in similar vein. Contents designed so bad with impossible difficulty that all you end up doing is replaying Abyssea, Neo Dyna and Voidwatch over and over since those are actually accessible.

[Cowardlybabooon]

Best gear in the game should be hard to get, sorry. A lot of people do have it too.

[MarkovChain]

I'm fine with the hardest gear being hard to get [and in this case I argue it's not possible until proven otherwise], I'm not fine when the event is so badly designed that undectable, and easily obtainable, cheats like changing lamp names to have the correct order 100% of the time or seing through walls is cutting 5 minutes per run at least.

The dev post is like saying HnMs were avaialble to anyone that wanted to claim them at 75.

[Hayward]

Best gear in the game should be hard to get, sorry. A lot of people do have it too.

Cut the BS with that old trope. Something is dreadfully wrong when you cannot win an event without cheat devices. I'll bet you've thrown out that talking point in the Salvage era before the crap hit the fan with so-called pros duping items.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Hey everyone,

The new Nyzul was not designed in such a way that it is impossible to clear. We understand that it is a challenge to reach and complete floor 100, but please keep in mind that successful runs offers guaranteed rewards. In addition, the development team was able to introduce rewards with some highly beneficial stats due to the level of difficulty associated with getting to and conquering floor 100. That said, there aren't any plans to simplify the journey up to the top

Get rid of the time penalty on Gears if nothing else...

[Monchat]

I want a video of the dev team clearing floor 100 with at least 5 "lamp order" floors.

[Raucent]

I want a video of the dev team clearing floor 100 with at least 5 "lamp order" floors.

Without pulling their AV Fade to black and Fade in at killshot

[Helel]

Remove order lamps. The fact that the dev team hasn't already done this is sad and disappointing. Maybe they'll fix it in the six months it took them to finally fix modus veritas/libra in VW.

[Sakima]

The fact that you insist on killing speed in your argument against my statement proves my point. It's pretty obious that the killing speed is not what matters. The floors that matters are "code lamps" "order lamps" "enemies" the other are quick. The floors that don't matters are killall because each melee is unlikely to have more than 2 mobs to kill...
The fact you insist killing speed has nothing to do with it leads me to believe you are not experienced with uncharted. Having well geared dds will save you seconds if not a minutes per floor that will matter in a winning run. Even the time it takes the porter to warp you up after a floor objective will matter overtime, time spent in the lobby etc. The reason i say every second matters is because we have come across winning runs that left us with only 10-30 secs remaining while other runs have felt so easy with 5mins remaining after the boss has been killed. Even in those 5 min to spare runs we where doing everything in the most efficient way in our knowledge without tool usage. For example dds splitting up every fork that comes up this is where kill speed/gear will matter since the dd will be left solo to kill possibly a formidable enemy so yes i will say setup/gear/player skill will matter in shaving off seconds/min you need. If you ask how is a dd surviving solo vs any mob that can pop up in a kill all/spec/family/boss then your doing it wrong, kinda hard to die with haste/body boost/embrava/regen/(pdt if needed for those massive body boost 1 enemy spec trains) for the full duration of the event. I can attest that 100 is possible without cheats i am not denying its a rare thing but it is possible, it does include some form of lucky randomness but also skill/experience within the group.

P.S. If you read this Okipuit anyway you could suggest to the devs if the Nyzul lobby could be worked out to be like the Legion lobby so the event timer wont start till we are warped to floor 1? I'm sure i am not the only one wanting this!

[Sfchakan]

I fear for the upcoming responses for my post, but I just wanted to say thanks for not dumbing down another event.

[Malthar]

O-kaaaaay...
How 'bout this, SE,
Two changes:
Increase the base for jumps as time runs down to 0
Increase the likelihood of hitting a boss floor when timer gets below 5 minutes.

Throw us a bone, even if it is a chicken bone, so that at least we'll have something to chew on.

[Daniel]

The only people I have herd of that have success doing the new Nyzul are those using hacks, even then 2X sch with 2 hour resets are required for any normal group to have much of a chance at floor 100. To make matters worse the floor 80 gear is worthless in comparison to AF +2 which most people already have.

If you want a real result on how many people can actually do this stuff perhaps you should exclude those who cheat.

[Raucent]

edyth floor 100 is a guaranteed reward as ya get a KI yo trade in for your choice of drop.. the entire problem is getting to and beating said floor 100 boss

[Demon6324236]

Hey everyone,

The new Nyzul was not designed in such a way that it is impossible to clear. We understand that it is a challenge to reach and complete floor 100, but please keep in mind that successful runs offers guaranteed rewards. In addition, the development team was able to introduce rewards with some highly beneficial stats due to the level of difficulty associated with getting to and conquering floor 100. That said, there aren't any plans to simplify the journey up to the top

Ya know, back in abyssea we had some good gear, like Zelus, a piece massively used by DDs everywhere due to high haste in a spot that for most DDs, doesn't come close to 8%. These were hard, not so difficult players went as far as to say impossible, and not so bad where many had to cheat to get it. Also we had real drop rates, and had the chance to get the gear we wanted.

Since abyssea you have screwed us every step. You made VW drops stupid, luck is all that matters, you will probably cap lights before you kill anything worth your time, so all it comes down to is, did you get logs this time? You have Neo-Nyzul, where you ask players to get lucky again, but not with drops, this time you want players to get lucky with a random button that can easily make you lose if you get bad jumps. You gave us things based on luck currently, yes, some skill is involved, but I do not want my game 50% skill and 50% luck. Luck should not be a high value at all, I pay to play your game, I spend my time to play your game, and I get no reward for playing your game. And why? Because I have no luck in your game, I get logs, I get rocks, I get bad jumps, and I'm getting tired of getting worthless wastes of time.

There is not one thing you can do to reverse the change you made to FFXI as it is. You want high end top of the line gear? You had it, you had Relics, but you made that easy and fast, people can make them so fast many events don't care about your gear. A Perle DRK with Rag will get in a VW party before a fully geared DRK, with great WS set for Reso5/5, great 5-6 hit TP build, and a decent GS. This is how you made it, you want things easy? Stick to your guns, make things easy, give them a challenge, give them a hard time, but you have made things in this game the way they are now.

With your current setting you have, lv1~99 in a day is possible, an Emp in a week is possible, in a linkshell for it, you can have a Relic in 1~2 weeks. A well geared job is possible in a few days if you work at it. So tell me, why after you have made everything so easy, do you choose to go from happy paying people, playing your game, to mad angry people, getting mad at your game, when you could just leave things alone, make it easy~decently challenging content, and most would be happy.

Legion is ok, its where the current challenge seems to be. Don't make hard content like this a 1 a day thing, or up to 4 if you wait 4+ days. That just means when you fail your even worse off, because now you have to wait days just to try again! When I lose something, I want the freedom to attempt it again, not just walk away and think it was a waste of my time.

I'm starting to hate this game more and more because of your luck dependence, you made both VW & NNI a bunch of luck with some skill throw in. Move away from this idea. Get to the idea of intelligence. Effort/Time spent=Reward. This is what abyssea had. I put in my effort camping my NMs, killing my VNMs, and killing 30~35 Bria and 30~35 Sobek, and now I enjoy my Almace. I put in effort and time with my friends Emps, and they have them now. You know how far Abyssea went to make sure we didn't waste our time? They made items always drop 1, so if we weren't lucky, you get something you wanted still, you always get one. If your lucky you get extra, but its not dependent on luck!

In short, go talk to the smart people who made abyssea, they understood Time/Effort should = Reward, you do not. You think if we smash the same thing over and over were having fun and we will do it happily for some items :D no, your wrong, not how we are. We want things for our time spent, not spit in the face and laughed at while our luck wasn't enough to get us through the event. As for you being able to make good gear because you made it so bad people cheat to win rather than waste time on your normal way of it being nearly impossible. Abyssea had good gear, really nice gear, and you know what? It wasn't nearly as terrible as this! Also it offers guaranteed rewards, but if I want a full set, I have to complete this 5 times?! This is terrible to complete once, let alone 15 times for all your gear.

[Yarly]

Nyzul is possible without cheating, stop complaining.

[Luvbunny]

You made good points, and very valid arguments, I seriously hope that the developers are listening to our feedbacks... The last year worth of contents are starting to rear its ugly head now that people are wizening up and seeing how hollow that said contents are, and see through the madness that the developers is trying to do. Which is doing the least amount of works and decided everything is based on luck and encourage people to cheat. While most of us do not realize this while we are playing the game due to abyssea crack doing its best to enthrall us, once you are able to step away from the game, you realize what a big massive failure the year 2011-2012 is. The only decent thing is Voidwatch, which they still willing to adjust. Everything else after is pretty much horrid fail. Let's hope our pleas are not going unanswered and the developers are actually doing some works!!

Personally, all they have to do is to increase time limit of Neo Nyzul to 60 minutes per run. Either by giving us additional 5 minutes per floor boss kill, or using some other ways. This will solve ALL the problems we are having without them having to adjust A SINGLE THING other than the timer.

[wish12oz]

Personally, all they have to do is to increase time limit of Neo Nyzul to 60 minutes per run.

This would solve the problem, if you think the problem is that 2 full perle bsts cannot duo neo nyzul to floor 100, every time they try. It's suppose to be hard, it's suppose to take more than 15 tags, get over it.


I suppose this is where BG gimps show us a video of their awesome-cheatless skills. But obviously they won't.

No, this is just the part where I laugh at you for being 0/15 on neo nyzul gear while I have all of it.


The fact that you insist on killing speed in your argument against my statement proves my point. It's pretty obious that the killing speed is not what matters.

Do you fight stuff ever in the event? If so, kill speed matters. Everything you can do to decrease time spent on floors helps. The more floors you can clear, the less luck you require with floor jumps to hit 100, how do you not understand this?

[Camiie]

Hey everyone,

The new Nyzul was not designed in such a way that it is impossible to clear.

Just HIGHLY unlikely for a VAST majority of the players to even consider being able to clear, even with the best gear in the game that doesn't come from Nyzul. Don't act like having players bang their head against the proverbial wall and coming away with nothing but a headache but being so addicted that they keep coming back anyway wasn't the intent. If we go in and fail over and over and over again through no fault of our own the event is working as intended. We're supposed to get just enough success or just enough hope to make us think we can do it and that's it.


We understand that it is a challenge to reach and complete floor 100, but please keep in mind that successful runs offers guaranteed rewards.


You guys understand nothing. You don't understand the state of the community, human nature, the wants/needs of your current paying customers, etc. Instead of shaping events around what your playerbase is like, you want the playerbase to shape itself to fit your vision.

In the past that worked out for you all because we were just too ignorant and stupid to know any better. We've learned and grown and know better now. You guys have not. You're still trapped in the past decade of MMOs as far as endgame is concerned. The saddest part is there were times you all actually were smarter about endgame, and I don't just mean Abyssea. All that's been thrown to the side to support the Grand Vision of The Great Leader. I guess his enjoyment is more important than ours.


In addition, the development team was able to introduce rewards with some highly beneficial stats due to the level of difficulty associated with getting to and conquering floor 100.

And those items are worthless if there's no reasonable way to obtain them. If you can reach my house on top of Mount Everest then everything you've ever wanted is yours! I've literally parked heaven on the highest peak! You have 30 minutes to reach the top! GO!


That said, there aren't any plans to simplify the journey up to the top

Of course there aren't. I guess in Japan it's OK to be a failure as long as you don't admit failure. That's good to know.

[Concerned4FFxi]

To say anyone that has 3 or more pieces of hq gear is cheating is completely ignorant. It is possible to beat ny isle without any forms of cheating just do no expect to accomplish it on a daily basis .

This my friend is why i said what i said, that having more than two or three peices warrants the suspect cheater gaze. Of course there may be one or two statics that have 5/5 gear that did not cheat, there's also people who fall 30,000feet and live. It's just that, one of a million people will not die falling out of a plane. Please, don't argue about every little detail when I'm just trying to point out the facts that most people 5/5 cheated and we all know it. Yes, ther's people with 5/5 that didnt cheat, but to have 15/15 already really is "things that make you go hmmmm". Especially, as you said, it's rare for the luck combo to come into play so the odds of being 15/15 so fast are like winning the lottery or falling out a plane and living.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Without seeing through walls ? Without changing the lamps names ?



This event had been designed by someone that didn't think more like 1 minute. I mean serisouly did they never heard of the trick to see through wall and dat mods ?

dude if we cheated i wouldnt be on here saying we got to 90+, I'd be in town wearing my 100 floor gear and keeping my mouth shut.

[Concerned4FFxi]

I prefer the content not be nerfed, I just wish SE did more about cheating, why can't they just put a program in NIUR that always monitors players use of 3rd party tools and auto-temp bans players if they are using any 3rd party tools for NIUR. It's that simple, you know the area that needs monitoring, get it done. The content is alot of luck based but it's not impossible, just really hard and requires great team work and luck. Except the luck part, I really like the challenege and I don't want SE to spoon feed me more gear were I can AFK during an event and still come back to a win.

[Concerned4FFxi]

P.S. If you read this Okipuit anyway you could suggest to the devs if the Nyzul lobby could be worked out to be like the Legion lobby so the event timer wont start till we are warped to floor 1? I'm sure i am not the only one wanting this!

This right here, this is the best thing i've yet to hear about NIUR. I second, third, and fourth this, this wouldn't be game breaking for the DEV to perform and in my opinion is absolutely needed.

[wish12oz]

Of course there may be one or two statics that have 5/5 gear that did not cheat, there's also people who fall 30,000feet and live. It's just that, one of a million people will not die falling out of a plane. Please, don't argue about every little detail when I'm just trying to point out the facts that most people 5/5 cheated and we all know it. Yes, ther's people with 5/5 that didnt cheat, but to have 15/15 already really is "things that make you go hmmmm". Especially, as you said, it's rare for the luck combo to come into play so the odds of being 15/15 so fast are like winning the lottery or falling out a plane and living.

lol... seriously?

For my comments we'll be using some math about nyzul and your probability to reach floor 100 based on how many floors your group can clear on average that can be found right here:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/109245-Neo-Nyzul-Isle-%28CAUTION-GMs-have-been-banning-for-flee-tools%29?p=5097920&viewfull=1#post5097920

The basic thing to know is that if you can clear 16 floors, you will reach floor 100 13% of the time. 17 floors gets you there 30% of the time. If you're not horrible at this game, 16-17 floor average is pretty easy to accomplish, which means you'll be getting at least 1 win a week. How long has nyzul been out now? 4 months? whats that like 17 weeks? Looks to me like if you were using all your tags on nyzul with a competent group you'd already be 15/15.

Also: If you can clear 18 floors, you'll be on 100 52% of the time, 19 floors pushes it to 72%. Based on how good your group is at Nyzul directly impacts your ability to reach 100. Based on this you can see that very good groups will be able to finish much faster than average groups. Saying anyone with the gear is obviously a cheater just shows how misinformed about the event you are, and maybe even how bad at FFXI you are. Have you even gotten your friends together and done a few runs and seen what your average floor clears will amount to?

EDIT: Is there any particular reason you make 4 posts instead of multi quoting or editing your post to include replies to different things? Are you trying to up your post count a lot or what?

EDIT #2: @peechan
Just came across this video of some gimp JPs beating neo nyzul in 20 minutes without cheating!
http://nicoviewer.net/sm17623114

[Siiri]

I am not a fan of neo nyzul because it seems to require 2 scholars. If you want hard, like some of the people in this thread claim to, I think scholar's 2 hour should be massively nerfed to prevent this type of usage. Just think what SE did to drks with the haste cap and souleater nerf. Made their 2 hour much less useful. Let's do the same to scholar and win for real now with gimmicky broken 2 hours.

[Gokku]

PC user
12/15 100 gear * i do not have a job for the mage gear set but yea...*
Static is 17/25 on wins
Set up: war war war/mnk drk sch sch
We have taken ls members *one at a time* on runs with us to gear them up since the content is so unbalanced.

that all being said , SE put this content and the 25 floor 80 win gimic in as a huge time sink. the event could be fixed simply by removing lamp floors totally. they are hands down the #1 run killer for any and all groups and the sole reason most people cant even join pugs without pc/skype/vent etc.

Neo is not hard at all , prefect example I have an extremely well geared monk but during my statics initial 4 runs we ran into alot of flan floors / amorphs and i eventually ended up changing to my war. Now my war is not ridiculously geared like my monk is but it is well above average but what my war doesn't have is a relic/mythic/empy. Now even without the massive dps boost of a proper war wep (im using the crit+4% GA) and a pretty decent upheaval set , im more then able to keep up with our other relic/empy DD's. So if you are doing neo you dont NEED relic/empy etc but you do need smart players.

The reason most people on PC's are able to clear this content and console users cant is simply communication.
We do our runs on vent , the 2 cors are CONSTANTLY in synch with each other on spell rotations rune control buff wear and 2 hour timers. All dps are calling out mobs as they see them be it boss location or simply whos training a zone with move+ so the others can hit lamps agro free. From a dps stand point we have adopted a split bunny hop kill style with 2 groups of DD's 1war+drk 1 war +war/mnk calling out a mob and the next dps grabbing the nearest mob. From what i understand about our sch's they are both geared (1 in 490ish other in 506) enhancing skill sets, and the spells they keep up are , embrava enthunder haste regen regain phlanx.

Also PLEASE USE TEMPS your dd's and mages should all have temps and food up for this event youve no room for slackers, and if your going with anything remotely close to a sub optimal setup stop and get the right gear/ players for the event.Your friends may not want to hear "sorry but you need a better dps job" but until your groups getting wins you need to cut people out and take whats needed to win.

if that helps anyones runs i hope so, either way to console users keep trying.

Neo is 20%skill 10%gear and 70% luck i say this because no matter how much of the first 2 your group has a 1>4>6>8>12>14>18>20..etc run = you are not getting to 100.

[Ica]

I think scholar's 2 hour should be massively nerfed to prevent this type of usage.

This is a stupid, stupid idea and you should feel bad for even suggesting it.

[Raksha]

This is a stupid, stupid idea and you should feel bad for even suggesting it.

Don't mind him/her. He has a hardon for wanting SCH nerfed. He'll bring it up in every thread.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

This is a stupid, stupid idea and you should feel bad for even suggesting it.

It'd go from barely anyone winning, to no one winning. At least it might make SE look into how stupid it is.

Flee Hacks, .DAT Swapping and two SCH's SHOULD not be the only means to beat something.

Only the bolded can "occasionally" be removed for the win.

[Siiri]

It'd go from barely anyone winning, to no one winning. At least it might make SE look into how stupid it is.

Flee Hacks, .DAT Swapping and two SCH's SHOULD not be the only means to beat something.

Only the bolded can "occasionally" be removed for the win.

That is my point. It is stupid to design an event around one job's 2 hour to the point you need 2 to fully clear. Same reason Perfect Defense is flawed, if players think they are so awesome why do we need Perfect defense. Lets go straight up without gimmicks. Impossible? Then SE needs to adjust the event so gimmicks are not required.

Again, DRK was nerfed for the same reason, the 2 hour was too strong for events. Same thing here.

I freely admit I dislike scholar, maybe even downright hate it. That really isn't the issue though. The issue is bad game design disguised by an overpowered 2 hour to the point that 2 of the 6 members have to be scholar.

[scaevola]

He/she's actually right about Embrava, for the same reason Perfect Defense ought to be nerfed: it's so powerful that it trivializes any content not balanced around its presence, but balancing around the assumption that it's there (and utilized properly via strategems) makes content basically impossible without it.

Any potential balancing decisions made in light of this are bad for the game, no matter the result. As Hatcher mentions, hacks or not nobody would disagree there were deep and serious problems with Nyzul that needed to be addressed if Embrava were not in the game (or were at least limited, like not stacking with strategems or applying a debuff to prevent back-to-back casts like WoW's Bloodlust/Time Warp). It would be better for PD and Embrava to just not exist, but if they must, we would all be better off if they were nerfed.

[Gokku]

i fail to see the point in NERFING a job instead of ... idk spending 2-3 days in abyssea / sea/ sky gearing out a sch and being able to do the content.... the amount of time you guys have spent crying about embrava and PD you could have spent abusing them and had at least some of your NI2.0 gear.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

i fail to see the point in NERFING a job instead of ... idk spending 2-3 days in abyssea / sea/ sky gearing out a sch and being able to do the content.... the amount of time you guys have spent crying about embrava and PD you could have spent abusing them and had at least some of your NI2.0 gear.

My point is simply because as it stands the Dev's think it's ok since you can do it via hacks and 2 jobs (that are required)

By removing that at least they'd see it's not designed as well as they think it is.

[Siiri]

i fail to see the point in NERFING a job instead of ... idk spending 2-3 days in abyssea / sea/ sky gearing out a sch and being able to do the content.... the amount of time you guys have spent crying about embrava and PD you could have spent abusing them and had at least some of your NI2.0 gear.

How am I crying? I stated my opinion that an event should not be balanced around a 2 hour. I think Embrava/PD are gimmicky. Does that mean I do not use them? No, in fact I just used them last night for PW. I just acknowledge that I am using a gimmick, and not pretending a job's 2 hour makes me a great player or better than anyone.

[scaevola]

Because it leads to situations like Nyzul (but more to the point, situations like Legion) where unbalanced, stupid content gets to stay unbalanced and stupid for literally no other reason than that the ability exists.

Need I remind you that Embrava is still really new and this balance idiocy started almost immediately? This doesn't seem wrong to you on some level?

[Gokku]

they know damn well its not designed right, they put it in anyways. nerfing embrava is stupid you would ruin alot of fights *prov watcher* and set sch back to a subjob.

NI is luck based all embrava is doing is removing some of the RNG

better yet lets use VW

NI2.0 = VW without lights but floor 100 is getting your body.

now yes some people who never use cells never cap lights WILL get a body (ni floor 100 win) but 90% of the time your going to get more log drops then a porta potty @ the superbowl.

embava for this event is the equivalent of procing white on VW , does it get you your drops 100%? nope but it sure as fuck raises the chance of you getting A drop.

so if you have no issue with white procs being in VW then you should have no issue with embrava helping out in NI.

embava isnt the enemy here its , RNG floors and Lamps and the lack of a waiting room forcing people to rush as soon as they entered. you could have all the embrava and best players in the world shit floors and mobs will still cost you a loss.

[scaevola]

I actually agree with the idea that NI isn't dramatically different than VW in its reward structure; they have simply relocated the RNG in the process.

If people could use a third party program to increase their Red to 800%, I would bet Hard-Earned American Dollars they'd whine about how unfair voidwatch droprates are (and they are, don't get me wrong) to justify that, too!

[Luvbunny]

I freely admit I dislike scholar, maybe even downright hate it. That really isn't the issue though. The issue is bad game design disguised by an overpowered 2 hour to the point that 2 of the 6 members have to be scholar.

That statement.... You mad bro? Jealous? What? you leveled a dumb dumb job? Scholar 2 hours is by far one of the best 2 hours in the game, finally the developer did something right and created a 2 hours that is worth its title. Before you twisted your panty once again, and go crying, let me remind you the upcoming revision to existing 2 hours and some new meritable ones that is in the works. I bet you soon Neo Nyzul will require some of these potent new two hours to be used and it will make Embrava looks like a yesterday news. Then you can go back here hating several new jobs and complaint how unfair blah blah blah. Embrava is fine the way it is, not over powered, it's the right ability for scholar since to master that job you must be able to use things strategically, something you obviously have no experience.

Granted I agree with you that no events should be designed with certain jobs in mind to be able to complete it. But the players found out how to go around this so called "balance", it's too bad they also need cheat programs, and the fact that you need job xyz. What Embrava did is to let all the DDs go all out, and the fact that Embrava is extremely efficient with haste, regen, and regain. Same thing can be said for Corsair + Summoner combo but the fact that you do not get the same amount of duration and potency. But let's not derail the main problem here, this event is 100% luck based, if they added time extension so you can get up to 45-60 minutes, then all problems here will be removed and all jobs combination can work. The only factor would be getting lucky with the drops or the fact that you need to kill floor boss mob 15 times.

[scaevola]

let me remind you the upcoming revision to existing 2 hours and some new meritable ones that is in the works. I bet you soon Neo Nyzul will require some of these potent new two hours to be used and it will make Embrava looks like a yesterday news.

i am going to gloss over everything that's dumb about your post and focus on this, because it really underscores what's wrong with the rest of it

does a game full of super-powerful two hours that dominate the rest of everyone's skillset sound like it would be fun to play

like, do you think league of legends would be a better game if everybody just hung out in their base until R was back up again

EDIT: FTR I kind of hope (well, I really hope) the two-hour merits end up reducing the cooldown on the basic two-hours rather than strengthening them; the stronger ones don't need to be any stronger, and I think a lot of the weaker ones would gain a lot from shorter cooldowns, thus making them something you could actually rely on in a real-world situation. Just off the top of my head, if you gave Spirit Surge, Perfect Dodge, Blood Weapon, Trance, Invincible, and Benediction 20-minute cooldowns it would completely change the way each of those jobs play, I'd think. It's exciting to think about, really.

A lot more exciting than stuff straight-up better than Embrava, at least.

[Luvbunny]

LMAO, you should blame the developer. The new 2 hours will probably good ones, with some jobs getting the shaft as usual. The players will probably find out which ones is appropriate in helping clearing Neo Nyzul. The only thing good about Embrava is that the time duration and potency. Since NN is limited with time, Embrava helps a great deal. When time is no longer an urgency, you can replace Embrava with similar benefits from other jobs. While you are at it, the other 4 slots is actually for well geared DDs (Samurai, Warriors, Monk), may want to cry foul at this and start asking for nerf since it excludes Black Mage, Red Mage and probably a good amount of other jobs as well.

Beside, when you have 2 hours ability that is as powerful as Embrava, you USE IT when you deem is appropriate. You don't just prancing around trying to solve this so called challenge with your "skill". There is no skill involved here, just plain LUCK, and Communication. And if you get slammed with Lamp Floors multiple times, well there goes your Embrava. Kill one mob, kill all mob, or kill specific mobs family are not challenge.

[Siiri]

That statement.... You mad bro? Jealous? What? you leveled a dumb dumb job? Scholar 2 hours is by far one of the best 2 hours in the game, finally the developer did something right and created a 2 hours that is worth its title. Before you twisted your panty once again, and go crying, let me remind you the upcoming revision to existing 2 hours and some new meritable ones that is in the works.

Nope, not mad or jealous. I have many jobs at 99, same as most people in this thread. I have adapted my jobs and play style over the last 7 years, taking part in every event in game at one time or another. I will state again, my issue with scholar has nothing to do with my points in this thread. I think the existence of over powered 2 hour abilities is bad game design, whether they are SAM only Nyzul shouts at 75, Kclub drk AV fights (which was nerfed), Perfect Defense AV/Pandemonium Warden fights, or embrava fueled Nyzul 2.0, Legion and Provenance. I am not picking on scholar, I am calling out the game design. Sorry you feel the need to insult me to make your argument.

[Ica]

Why people advocate for the nerfing of jobs or abilities instead of adjustments to events is beyond me.

[Luvbunny]

Again, if you want to place blame, blame the developers for creating unbalanced contents. As for jobs xyz getting preferred treatment, that is just how the game works. After awhile the players will find out which jobs are the most efficient at clearing particular tasks. As for 2 hours being overpowered, perhaps you forgot other super powered 2 hours? Familiar is also extremely powerful, it lasts 30 minutes and longer when you have jug pets. There are many other 2 hours that is just as good as Embrava, albeit for different situations, and at this point not for Neo Nyzul. Save your hatred for something else. I don't hate any jobs in FFXI, each one is useful for certain situations, not one job is a solution for everything, well except White Mage, one of the best mage jobs in this game, PERFECT 10 - in case you are looking for another nerf this job case...

[Siiri]

Again, if you want to place blame, blame the developers for creating unbalanced contents. As for jobs xyz getting preferred treatment, that is just how the game works. After awhile the players will find out which jobs are the most efficient at clearing particular tasks. As for 2 hours being overpowered, perhaps you forgot other super powered 2 hours? Familiar is also extremely powerful, it lasts 30 minutes and longer when you have jug pets. There are many other 2 hours that is just as good as Embrava, albeit for different situations, and at this point not for Neo Nyzul. Save your hatred for something else. I don't hate any jobs in FFXI, each one is useful for certain situations, not one job is a solution for everything, well except White Mage, one of the best mage jobs in this game, PERFECT 10 - in case you are looking for another nerf this job case...

You are the one who sounds angry. White Mage's weakness is the same as it has always been, in that it is not desired for sustained low man events in which the action is continuous. No one takes a white mage to Nyzul 2.0. so there is an event it is not perfect for. Likewise white mage will probably be little used in Limbus 2.0 except for the boss fight, and Salvage 2.0. It was rarely used in those events at 75 in the original versions. I don't have a problem with this, I have many other jobs to use when white mage isn't needed. I also don't have a problem with scholar being a top pick for Nyzul. Seems a bit odd for Nyzul to require 2 scholars using their 2 hours though. I think I have said this all before though.

[wish12oz]

the time you guys have spent crying about embrava and PD you could have spent abusing them and had at least some of your NI2.0 gear.

lol, so true.

[MarkovChain]

that all being said , SE put this content and the 25 floor 80 win gimic in as a huge time sink. the event could be fixed simply by removing lamp floors totally. they are hands down the #1 run killer for any and all groups and the sole reason most people cant even join pugs without pc/skype/vent etc.

Hypocrite. Admit you fixed lamp orders by dat modding like everyone else.





I have an extremely well geared monk but during my statics initial 4 runs we ran into alot of flan floors / amorphs and i eventually ended up changing to my war.

What is formless strike.




The reason most people on PC's are able to clear this content and console users cant is simply communication.

Nope it's cheat tools that are undectable. You use them just like anyone else reaching the top floor.




We do our runs on vent , the 2 cors are CONSTANTLY in synch with each other on spell rotations rune control buff wear and 2 hour timers.

Man what a lot of work ! dude haste on warp up embrava when it wears off, console users totally can't do eeet.





Also PLEASE USE TEMPS your dd's and mages should all have temps and food up for this event youve no room for slackers,

It's funny because I fail to see what temps make the SCH more efficient.



Neo is 20%skill 10%gear and 70% luck i say this because no matter how much of the first 2 your group has a 1>4>6>8>12>14>18>20..etc run = you are not getting to 100.

Kay mister useless, you explained us that all your previous speech about strategy is useless, the only way to achieve FL100 is getting ~10+ 8 floors jumps, all of which belong to easy floors (aka no those requiring ofg1337 dps). Fail.

[Demon6324236]

Hypocrite. Admit you fixed lamp orders by dat modding like everyone else.






What is formless strike.





Nope it's cheat tools that are undectable. You use them just like anyone else reaching the top floor.





Man what a lot of work ! dude haste on warp up embrava when it wears off, console users totally can't do eeet.






It's funny because I fail to see what temps make the SCH more efficient.



Kay mister useless, you explained us that all your previous speech about strategy is useless, the only way to achieve FL100 is getting ~10+ 8 floors jumps, all of which belong to easy floors (aka no those requiring ofg1337 dps). Fail.

Short version:I can't do that! Your lying! You cheat, cheater!

Or at least, what it looked like to me... I think its possible, and talking to your partners helps obviously, tell them where your going and split up better, also means you can get people info faster, saves time typing... Many reasons.
As for what can temps do for SCH? Well if your getting mobs that are resistant to melee, they are gonna be weak to magic, meaning the SCHs can nuke them, meaning MP items and things to make your nukes stronger, thus improving speed & performance. How hard are things to understand?

[MarkovChain]

Except that if you are getting melee resistant crap and you are relying on SCH to kill them you are already losing the run because because of the time constraints ? Any time you are getting an unusal floor that implies losing time compared to the avergae floor you lose. A single order lamp means loss except if you cheat. Not sure why all the gimps are emphatazing on killing speed. You guyz should record a run and actually count the time you spend killing vs doing something else. Just for you info any time you are expecting 100%+ TP per mob on killall floors you lose because it takes 1 full minute to replenish TP from regain and mobs are one shotted by WS.

[Demon6324236]

Umm~ depends on the SCH? A full minute doesn't seem right by my math, 3seconds/tick 7tp/tick so thats 140tp/minute... You would need a SCH with 400 skill I think for a 5TP/tick. However I will say no, thats not going to get you far, but the haste with the regain will when you start hitting mobs, the mass haste+regain will make you WS every few seconds very easily... Making killing everything in your path simple and I would think fairly fast...

[MarkovChain]

140 tp per minute dude that's fail seing as you cannot afford more than 1:30 per floor. You will always get TP on first mob, when you are on the second mob 1 min will not have passed so you are stuck and and TP gotten at this point from regain will go to trash because the next WS will not come regain so yeah. The only thing regain does is getting a WS on first mob on everyfloor.


So.... what ? Again ? No words on optimization on lamps floor and specifed enemies floors, because last I checked killall floors are the fastest floor so give us a break with your dps otimization when they clearly don't matter ?

[Demon6324236]

Ok, you said WS 1hit mobs, so, if I 1hit them with my WS, why not A:Attack a mob. B:WS a nearby mob so it dies. C:TP on 1st mob again. D:WS another mob nearby. E:If D is unable to be done, WS the 1st mob and move on. In the time you take to get 4 hits (in a 5hit build) with 2handers, you would get that other 21 from Embrava which gives you the 5th hit, saving time, seconds or not, thats time, and every second counts when your racing against a clock in an event you seem to think is impossible without cheats.

How to optimize your lamps & Spec enemys, well depends what your doing, are you communicating with your party correctly? If so, Lamps can be done well, there is also luck involved in some, like order lamps. Spec enemys are another where communication can help, if your talking to people, you save time typing to search or to kill. The time you could be killing, or looking for your enemy, you must now take a few extra seconds to type out to everyone that the mobs your after are... bunnys... not every other mob in the zone. Again, seconds count.

Many things can save you time, SCH Fast Casting spells, not a massive time save, but its there. Stronger DDs, temps for power, having your SCHs kill things as well as DDs (even if they die easily, more killing can not possibly hurt), cut corners, make improvements, and you can do it. Yes luck will make a difference, but thats just the FFXI we live in today, luck has become an even bigger role. If you roll bad in this or in VW, you will get nothing for your effort. This is better in that case because in here, you can improve and at least give yourself a better shot at it. Saving just 30 seconds can mean you get more done, and are closer to winning on a good run.

[Vortex]

140 tp per minute dude that's fail seing as you cannot afford more than 1:30 per floor. You will always get TP on first mob, when you are on the second mob 1 min will not have passed so you are stuck and and TP gotten at this point from regain will go to trash because the next WS will not come regain so yeah. The only thing regain does is getting a WS on first mob on everyfloor.

So.... what ? Again ? No words on optimization on lamps floor and specifed enemies floors, because last I checked killall floors are the fastest floor so give us a break with your dps otimization when they clearly don't matter ?


Obviously you have never met an all enimies floor full of HNMs and other time consuming nms like byakko who uses PD.

in fact, they can actually be the slowest floors, especially on higher, large floors. just because you're all enemy floors have 5 mobs total and 4 of them are imps dosn't mean they are all the "fastest"

[MarkovChain]

So what ? Your HnMs floors mean you lose anyway because if you rely on embrava to do TP spam it means that you are spending minutes on the floor, meaning you ARE losing.

I just enter 4 times on the test server to check what kind of time it takes to just "gauge" the floor.

*I had 2 killall floors (full of flan and slimes of course), It took me 1'29 and 1'02 just walking to count the mobs (no fighting).
* 1 enemy lear (a flan !!) and it took 1'02 to get to it (I followed the path it was straight forward).
* One lamp "same time" floor, took 27 second to find it.


For killalls : even if enemies are melee weak you are looking at ~1'15 running then ~10 seconds x 4 mobs per melee which makes it ~2 minutes.
For enemy leader : ~ 1'02 running and ~1' killing it total ~2 minutes.
For lamp order : 30 sec for each melee to find it's lamp, 30 sec per attempt and you need ~3 attempt to guess right so 3x30 sec wasted at least for a total of 2 minutes too.

So basically you can't afford more than 15 floors to win whatever your setup. Then you have to deal with the random floors and randomly long floors.

Cheating cuts down the time tremendously. Not for killall floors but for Enemy leader (you know quickly where the mob is : 30 sec instead of 1min to find it) or lamp order ( 2 min without cheats, 30 sec with cheat). Basically the above 4 floors example that would take 8 minutes to clear without undetectable cheats (that EVERYONE is aware of) will noow take 6 minutes. All of a sudden you went from affording 15 run max to 20 run max.

[Vortex]

So what ? Your HnMs floors mean you lose anyway because if you rely on embrava to do TP spam it means that you are spending minutes on the floor, meaning you ARE losing.

I see, interesting. and how many nyzul peices do you have again?

[MarkovChain]

Noone but I'll be getting a shiny in a few.

[Demon6324236]

Noone but I'll be getting a shining empy within a few days.

Cool, but this doesn't qualify you to make judgments on NNI when you don't have the gear, as such you saying its impossible without cheats is seen as only an outlet of rage and disappointment on your part, this argument/talk is over. The simple fact it is seen as impossible by a major amount of people should say there is a problem with its difficulty or we have yet to understand the true reason why we do not win. I say its a matter of luck, some skill, and that its upto the player to determine the ratio between them, more skill=less luck and so on.

[Vitus]

lol... seriously?

The basic thing to know is that if you can clear 16 floors, you will reach floor 100 13% of the time. 17 floors gets you there 30% of the time. If you're not horrible at this game, 16-17 floor average is pretty easy to accomplish, which means you'll be getting at least 1 win a week. How long has nyzul been out now? 4 months? whats that like 17 weeks? Looks to me like if you were using all your tags on nyzul with a competent group you'd already be 15/15.

Also: If you can clear 18 floors, you'll be on 100 52% of the time, 19 floors pushes it to 72%. Based on how good your group is at Nyzul directly impacts your ability to reach 100. Based on this you can see that very good groups will be able to finish much faster than average groups. Saying anyone with the gear is obviously a cheater just shows how misinformed about the event you are, and maybe even how bad at FFXI you are. Have you even gotten your friends together and done a few runs and seen what your average floor clears will amount to?

http://nicoviewer.net/sm17623114

You're full of it.
The animation lock and loading alone for 16 floor jump is ~7mins from the activation to finish. The numbers just don't add up.

And I think easing this event is a bad idea, everybody with cheat tools will clear this with high success rate. It will wreak the game balance.

I don't see they will adjust this anytime soon. We'll have to adapt. Safety in numbers!

[MarkovChain]

Yeah the lock animation is at least 15 sec, then if you just add the time from the intitial entry (~30s) plus the the ~5 min lock between floors plus the necessary 15x 1 minute running you are left with 9'30 to perform the action from 15 floors.

[Kaisha]

If they really want to make it viable without relying on powder boot spam in addition to getting only code-lamp floors as far as lamp floors go, they'd probably have to do one or ten of the following.

- 4 minute wait timer in the lobby independent of the 30min timer within the zone, like Legion already does

- Add an option in the starting lobby to make rune automatically select ??? floor jump upon objective completed (aside from when you hit the floor you lock your run to, in which case you manually exit).
The current system pretty much depends one of your party members (preferably a SCH) camping at the lamp since you cannot afford time to run back and hit one upon objective complete, especially with how big some of the generated floors can be

- Either remove order lamp floors or number them so legit players are on the same playing field as the cheaters for that since they're pretty much guarantee a run failure when aiming for floor 100

- Reduce cooldown on timed lamps, since your run is pretty much boned if you mess it up due to 30 second wait to retry

- Bump the ??? jump to 3-floor hops minimum so we can complain about back2back 3s instead of back2back 2s.


The first two notes alone would save you at least 3 minutes every run.

[Gokku]

This is for you pchan. ive been back on ffxi less then 2 months have full NI2.0 gear for both my DD jobs beat and cleared all of VW got every single body drop ive wanted from anything in VW and funded1/3rd of my relic weapon and ive done 3 dyna runs total. you have.... sat on a forum and cry'd about content you cant do 3rd party or not i got my 12.95$ outta FFXI ... have you?

anyone who has actually won NI2.0 will agree communication is a huge factor in winning.

[MarkovChain]

I'll be suggesting the following to the devs : do a statistical analysis by examining logs, and find out the number of successful F100 nyzul runs that had "lamp order floor" in the previous floor where people went 1/1 on guessing correctly. 100% ?

[Gokku]

I'll be suggesting the following to the devs : do a statistical analysis by examining logs, and find out the number of successful F100 nyzul runs that had "lamp order floor" in the previous floor where people went 1/1 on guessing correctly. 100% ?

or quit bitching and request they remove lamps?!

[Demon6324236]

or quit bitching and request they remove lamps?!

It would be nice to remove if nothing more than to take away cheating. If you do it or not I don't know or care. I trust you not to lie and cheat, so Ill say you don't cheat. However if people who DO cheat use this to get the upper hand on others, take it away, then everyones on even ground, or at least more so than today.

[wish12oz]

You're full of it.
The animation lock and loading alone for 16 floor jump is ~7mins from the activation to finish. The numbers just don't add up.

No it isn't, lol. My PC takes 8~ seconds total to click a lamp, zone up, and be able to start moving, which is just barely over 2 minutes for 16 floors. Maybe you should run FFXI on something thats less than 8 years old if you're taking so much longer than that.

[scaevola]

Maybe you should run FFXI on something thats less than 8 years old if you're taking so much longer than that.

If it came down to spending $500+ on a new rig to clear Nyzul I'd just pay somebody else to clear it for me~

[scaevola]

Cool, but this doesn't qualify you to make judgments on NNI when you don't have the gear, as such you saying its impossible without cheats is seen as only an outlet of rage and disappointment on your part, this argument/talk is over. The simple fact it is seen as impossible by a major amount of people should say there is a problem with its difficulty or we have yet to understand the true reason why we do not win. I say its a matter of luck, some skill, and that its upto the player to determine the ratio between them, more skill=less luck and so on.

He's saying it's impossible without cheats because people who've completed it openly admit to cheating, you doofus.

I encourage everyone saying Nyzul's fine, like I did Kaerin several weeks ago when she claimed a WAR could hit Floor 100 solo with full buffs (http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/30358/ninja-recap/5#1858454), to post videos of their dat-swapless, fillmode-less, multiple-attempts-to-figure-out-lamp-order Floor 100 clears that they're getting enough to be 15/15 on gear like six weeks ago.

Still waiting, Kaerin! (b^^)b

[Demon6324236]

Wait wait wait, I'm a doofus? If someone thinks an event can only be done via cheating because people who beat it said they cheated then ok. Saying you cheated to do something does not in turn make something impossible without cheating. It simply means people were to weak or unskilled to do it the correct way if it is indeed possible without them.

Do I think its possible to win without cheating? Yes, I do. Would I be stupid enough to think a WAR at any level of gear, skill, or luck, with any number of buffs, would be able to do this event solo? Hell... Fucking... No... People as are now, saying this is impossible without cheats, so the chances it can be done without them, is less likely. But saying that WAR can solo this is stupid, and stupider people might believe it. I need no proof to see this is false. Just as I need no proof to say no player in this game will be able to solo NNI. You could go in with 5 buffers, and I still think you would make it no where on any one job doing all work except buffing. But you want to know the main reason, 100% why that part makes no sense?... LAMPS! Yes, wonderful lamps, if you got nothing to do with lamps, time you spend searching every path for specific mobs would kill you, time walking back to go up would kill you. Time in general, would kill you!

I think it is very possible to win this event without cheats, if it wasn't, I don't think SE would have released it. In recent times we have been able to actually do everything they have given us even if it took us time to work it out. That being said, I also argue the ideals of what SE is doing now, they are not moving correctly, they basically flip us off and move with their ideas, which is as stupid as it is insane on their part. They have made FFXIV cheaper than FFXI so far as I know, so I don't think they want to kill this game, as it will make them more money from what I understand. But not listening to us is doing that, so if thats their goal or not, whos to say. If they released more unbeatable, or incredibly insanely difficult content, then they don't want to fix it, then we cant really do much. At this point they seem bent on ignoring us, we say to fix things, they leave them be and we can do nothing about it...

[MarkovChain]

I think it is very possible to win this event without cheats, if it wasn't, I don't think SE would have released it.

Even though initially they didn't allow stoppers ? Yeah they have totally no clue of what they are doing, legion is more proof of this. I swear nobody is doing legion or Nyzul and that's all they achieved year. At least you have to admit that in both cases the first release was plainly impossible.

We managed to completely change their mind about VW tickets ( tickets being r/e never came to their mind as being stupid, yet everyone pretty much agreed to this). Just have to complain more because everyone but a few cheaters (and we do know where they come from) that worry about their status gear is aknowledging the problem.

[Demon6324236]

Even though initially they didn't allow stoppers ? Yeah they have totally no clue of what they are doing, legion is more proof of this. I swear nobody is doing legion or Nyzul and that's all they achieved year. At least you have to admit that in both cases the first release was plainly impossible.

We managed to completely change their mind about VW tickets ( tickets being r/e never came to their mind as being stupid, yet everyone pretty much agreed to this). Just have to complain more because everyone but a few cheaters (and we do know where they come from) that worry about their status gear is aknowledging the problem.

What they did "solve" one of many problems we have with VW, and listened to 1 problem they had with NNI, neither actually fixes these 2 things, they are simply small adjustments they think will shut us up. Seems it worked in some cases, people seem happier tickets were "fixed" still doesn't help people after Athos, Rubeus, or the Ogier sets. Also doesn't help anyone with any part of their gear that DOESN'T glow. Nyzul they fixed some, yes, but still people complain, and still some do think its impossible. Point being they don't actually have this fixed... They only fix some of it. I also said SE wasn't being smart, they are killing the game making them more money, how is that in any way a good idea? You don't stop a good product or degrade it so that people will start picking up your other products, thats just stupid. I understand SE is messing everything up, I'm also saying their ignorance of the player base isn't helping them. I only say they wouldn't release content that is impossible to beat because with all the things they do now to give us power, I have to think we are doing something wrong.

For instance of this, how they broke VW. Enmity is where I have to think VW was broken. They don't want to change Enmity, so the tank, cant tank, so others have to tank, mobs hit to hard for the DDs to live, so they need temps. Temps will not last forever, so they need to add a way to recharge, procs in abyssea helped drops, use that as a reason for both, now you have temp refills & extra drop rates. You now have VW, this is what it is, any DD can tank, you use temps to live off of, and tada, its done. This is in my mind how VW went from normal battles against large NMs that were hard, into a TP/proc/temp spam that it is today.

On NNI, they looked at the old Nyzul, how can we make this harder?
Lets make them have to climb more than before with less stooping points.
No, thats to simple to call new, because they can already do 10-15 floors at a time now. Maybe we can make the mobs harder?
We cant do that though, then we have to add temps for people to live, and then things get to messy live VW did, and we know how much we get yelled at for that.
Maybe make them not have to stop, they have to do it all in 1 go.
Are you insane?!
Nah, just make it so they can hit a random button.
Random button? You mean like all the luck we had setup in VW?
Exactly, make it so they have to get lucky to hit good floors, like they did to get good gear. Then we can keep them playing longer too because of all the luck involved!
That... is brilliant!

And thus, NNI was born.



Obviously not exactly what happened, but seems like how it went to me, they couldn't really make new content so they make old content new again by painting it a different color, giving a new button, and taking away everything that made it doable in the first place.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Enmity was broken at 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, and 99. This is nothing new when it comes to enmity.

[Demon6324236]

Enmity was broken at 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, and 99. This is nothing new when it comes to enmity.

No but at abyssea stages we could live through the evil attacks of mobs hitting us for 300+ tank or not. Outside of abyssea, we get hit hard, and fast, you can easily be 1shot by some VWNMs if your without PDT/MDT gear. My point was coming out of abyssea it was more apparent that enmity would not save a party of DDs from the attacks dealing way to much damage. A PLD with Aegis or Ochain can survive nicely on them, however past that, you die.

My idea is just they went from the idea of the tank, tanking, to everything tanking, because they final noticed after all this time, tanking via enmity, isn't working anymore, because they fucked it up. Tanking via fantatics, works, and works better for them to be lazy on the enmity system in the end as well. Why fix PLD, when you can just make everything that can pop out nice numbers of damage tank, and let the PLD hold the pets.

[MarkovChain]

Tanking via enmity has never worked >_>.

[user201108211515]

I'm pretty sure sakima uses spell cast so to say hes not 3rd pt tools his way through NNI.. is not a stretch... But I do know for a fact people in his LS are hacking it.

I was in a run with his #2 sac holder watchn him speed hack, spot leader mobs from the rune when we pop up. calln out lamp orders.

So dont let his leet attitude fool you. He migh not personally be cheating nni but the people he groups with prolly are.

People love to deny reality because its "just a game"

The reality is. 98% of anyone with more then 1-2 floor 100 gear cheated or leeched off cheaters to do so.

All we can do as real players that dont cheat... Complain. File reports with special task force daily. Do not let SE think they can ignore us. Do not let the cheaters win.

Eventually SE will have to ban thease people like they did to the salvage dupers or else lose the respect and $ of the actual people that are keeping this game alive.

And bad news for the people "not cheating" but leeching off cheaters.

I knew people that never got salvage gear but got baned because they were in salvage runs where gear was duped.

Its over due though. The server trash has been piling up for a while now.

Time to take out the trash SE.

choco blinking to buy relics in 2 weeks

fish bot heaven in beaucedine

and now a brand new event as some sort of reward for the players that suck at the game and have to play on easy mode.

SE has things very backwards atm and its our job as real players to let them know they are making mistakes. Otherwise they wont care to do anything.

I dont think the event needs to be changed beyond requiring 2 schs or its a loss. Or 2 low floor jumps = no chance for floor 100.

The real issue is how people dont want to try unless they have hacks in some way.

Or more to the point.. the real problem with this game has always been PC players and how 98% of them refuse to play the game by the rules. May be they dont care cauz its "just a game" or just suck at this easy game but for what ever reason they feel the need to ruin the game in every way they can. They do not deserve to be here if they only wish to hurt the game in the long run.

Remove PC support and like magic the problem with cheaters will be a non issue.

Even PC only servers would be nice. Then they can have all the fun in the world being on even ground with all the other people that have to play on easy mode.

The game is going to die if the "best" players are all cheating.

With out rules to follow and put limitations on people. We have no drive to do better. It will be pointless to play when they are all the same toons with the same gear using the same 3rd pt tools.

What a weak game to play.

Thats why PC players are and have always been a joke to the people that play by the rules. Cheating to win makes you good how?

[Gokku]

im not going to quote the above post but im going to respond to it with 0 trolling.

first off your an idiot. the main reason most pc users became cheaters is SE took what 5 years to release an widower? that's unacceptable. The definition of cheating in ffxi is anything other then vanilla full screen / windowed mode. now lets break down the most commonly used cheats.

Dat swaps: originally used to make some of the coolest and simple changes to the game , "sick of seeing destroyers" BOOM now ive got relic hth on and my pants make moogles fly out my ass. Effect on others : NONE bitch its only on my screen

Macros: fuck all this gear and only 6 lines and i have to hit 2-3 buttons to do anything... but wait windower macros 1 line fits all... holy shit they STILL haven't fixed that fucking issue after 10 years.
Effect on others: arguable, since it lets me play with all my gear and out preform others.

Plugins to windower:
chatmon: tells me when shit involving me happens if i stand up to piss "your being talked about" or "incoming tell" lets me know to check my log. Effect on others : NONE
Distance: Oh frogs charm @ 20yalms? thats cool se to bad a fucking yalms a made up term and you gave us no way of knowing it. yet again shit they should have added to the game day 1 if they are going to base gimics around it. Effect on others: bet your ass whms love not getting 1 shotted by AOE's.

the big cheats people are bitching about
lamp dat mods are no worse then the salvage mods that saved most salvage groups 5-15mins in ZR runs.
Flee botters: people are idiots and a decent amount got caught enough to get people to clear it without fleeing, and i can gladly state my group doesn't flee bot the shit.

Remove PC support and like magic the problem with cheaters will be a non issue.

i love how people are more focused on screwing the player base then idk FIXING THE GAME SO WE ARE ALL EQUAL
the things most people running even base windower are getting should have been in this game at least 7 years ago.

[Dragoy]

Remove PC support and like magic the problem with cheaters will be a non issue.

Best -- idea -- ever ! !! !

Or not. :b

It might not even be profitable at all to keep the game going without the PC-users.

I, for one, never cheated and I only play on PC. Heck, I never even tried 'windower', nor any 'parsers' and yes, I am aware that many would say I will never be able to really get the best possible results without them. That's why they are called cheats: they give an unfair advantage.

Either way, I honestly think that the consoles are much more of a problem than cheating PC-users. Every game has cheaters, it's just how it goes. It's up to the developers and maintainers of a game to take care of them, preferably without means that affect the actual players in negative ways (sadly, most often the do).
They could also, I don't know, implement features that the players are requesting for (such as simple things them cheats do allow, which don't exactly break the game and so on). Granted, they are doing quite a bit in the near-future, which is fer sure interesting and highly anticipated. It's perhaps a little too late, though, and they are very much able to disappoint beyond all expectations.

Point being: please don't stack every PC-user into the same pile with them cheaters. ^^;


As for Nyzul Isle Uncharted Region particularly, it is way too luck-based indeed, and obviously this is where cheating provides quite a noticeable advantage. Sure, it probably is not impossible to clear it without cheating, but seriously:


time-sink/random != fun
random/luck != challenge

There are many ways it could be made more fun, and challenging at the same time without all that amount of stupid.


Blubb!

[user201108211515]

I said 98% lol I have to hope a few good eggs are among the rotten bunch...

To the other guy...

lol he says he wont troll n the very next line he calls me an idot. priceless lol

Justify it all you want. But in "reality" not following the rules is by default cheating.

its funny though. You say you "out preform others" when in reality it is a program that plays the game for you that is so awesome. It has very little to do with you. The fact that hiting 2 macros is hard mode for you. Sounds like you fail at an easy game. You need a crutch. A way to make the game easier for you. Hiting 1 button VS 2.. Just wow.. Thats lots of skill to hit 1 button.. And soooo hard to hit 2 buttons. Get real. The fact is people that rely on 3rd pt tools to play do it because they have to. They couldnt ever get anywhere by the rules. If you had to rely on your actual skill to play the game by the rules. You would have quit the game already. So dont be mad at me cauz you cant cut it.

[Gokku]

I said 98% lol I have to hope a few good eggs are among the rotten bunch...

To the other guy...

lol he says he wont troll n the very next line he calls me an idot. priceless lol

Justify it all you want. But in "reality" not following the rules is by default cheating.

its funny though. You say you "out preform others" when in reality it is a program that plays the game for you that is so awesome. It has very little to do with you. The fact that hiting 2 macros is hard mode for you. Sounds like you fail at an easy game. You need a crutch. A way to make the game easier for you. Hiting 1 button VS 2.. Just wow.. Thats lots of skill to hit 1 button.. And soooo hard to hit 2 buttons. Get real. The fact is people that rely on 3rd pt tools to play do it because they have to. They couldnt ever get anywhere by the rules. If you had to rely on your actual skill to play the game by the rules. You would have quit the game already. So dont be mad at me cauz you cant cut it.

calling you an idiot does not make me a troll its a fact, your an idiot and have no idea what the hell your talking about. Also im far from mad , i have the gear its of no concern to me if you have or even get it, but i would love to see the player base as a whole move forward and succeeded at this event. were as you would rather crucify one aspect of the player base for your own convoluted reasoning. so that is why i state you are an idiot. your views are uneducated and your argument is counter productive.

[user201108211515]

I wouldnt have to say anything about PC players if they were not cheating.

You are a prime example of the bad PC players that honest players are forced to deal with on a daily basis.

Have fun pretending to be good ^^ The game sounds like alot of fun watching 3rd pt programs play for you.

Guess I should say grats on unlocking easy mode.

I'll be busy playn the game by the rules. Let me know if you ever step your skills up and decide to play the real game ^^

lol easy mode players.

[MarkovChain]

Dat swaps: originally used to make some of the coolest and simple changes to the game , "sick of seeing destroyers" BOOM now ive got relic hth on and my pants make moogles fly out my ass. Effect on others : NONE bitch its only on my screen

admitting cheating your nyzul gear.



lamp dat mods are no worse then the salvage mods that saved most salvage groups 5-15mins in ZR runs.


You are pretty ignorant as in each room was a group of 3 MMJ that always dropped what you needed.



i love how people are more focused on screwing the player base then idk FIXING THE GAME SO WE ARE ALL EQUAL
the things most people running even base windower are getting should have been in this game at least 7 years ago.

Asking to revamp nyzul so that it doesn't screw people not cheating is PRECISELY asking to fix the game.


You poped in the thread explaining us that we are retarded for not having Nyzul gear, even though you had it already after being back for only 2 months. You explained us that you didn't cheat your way to the top. Now you rage against us because we are complaining about windower, aka complaining about something that should be in the game. In other words you rage because we point out the cheats you were using. So why even come here post explaining us your that much superior to me for having nyzul gear already ?

[Monchat]

he is right though whn he says cheats (well light cheats like windower) were created to compensate the DEV's lack of playing the game. lol yeah, 10 year and still 6 macro lines, every year we get hundreds of gear.. come on..

[user201108211515]

Um.. just cauz you dont like the rules of the game... means you get to decide to change them?

SE decides the rules of the game. You either follow them.. or you are cheating them...

Complaining to SE about the problems is what should be done. Not breaking the rules cauz you feel like it or find ways to justify it.

I have played for 8 years on ps2/3 and xbox. The game works just fine. It is the PC players that ruin the game every chance they get.

[Gokku]

admitting cheating your nyzul gear.



You are pretty ignorant as in each room was a group of 3 MMJ that always dropped what you needed.



Asking to revamp nyzul so that it doesn't screw people not cheating is PRECISELY asking to fix the game.


You poped in the thread explaining us that we are retarded for not having Nyzul gear, even though you had it already after being back for only 2 months. You explained us that you didn't cheat your way to the top. Now you rage against us because we are complaining about windower, aka complaining about something that should be in the game. In other words you rage because we point out the cheats you were using. So why even come here post explaining us your that much superior to me for having nyzul gear already ?

Please find were i said i never used 3rd party. i do know ive done every run without a flee bot though.

actually floor 1 ZR 4 mobs 2 drop 2 don't per room that saved time on the 2nd floor 4 dropped 3 did more time saved.

and actually i poped in stating your retarded for trying to get sch nerfed instead of the zone itself fixed , then user pops in with nerf pc retardation. the people completing the event actually dont affect you at all, and thats something i dont think you get. But the RNG screwing you over has you so mad you'll take it out on anything but the people who are responsible for making NI2.0 shit and ridiculously hard to clear to console users.

and pchan , its only you who has been preaching from your high horse how useless VW is and now about how xyz is the issue with NI2.0. you dont seek to fix an issue you bitch about a complete irrelevant issue.

[Gokku]

Um.. just cauz you dont like the rules of the game... means you get to decide to change them?

SE decides the rules of the game. You either follow them.. or you are cheating them...

Complaining to SE about the problems is what should be done. Not breaking the rules cauz you feel like it or find ways to justify it.

I have played for 8 years on ps2/3 and xbox. The game works just fine. It is the PC players that ruin the game every chance they get.


ruin it how? please explain to me what having more macros and being able to see whats actually happening in the game does to ruin YOUR playing of it? or are you going to argue that gear swapping is cheating also.

[user201108211515]

You dont play by the rules. 3rd pt program of any kind is aginst the rules. If you cant understand that is cheating then you are just a waste of breath.

Again I say... Have fun pretending to be good. With out actual skill to play by the rules. That is the best you can do is pretend.

[user201108211515]

Really it shows how sad the game is and how little support honest players get.. When someone can come to the offical SE forums and brag about all the kewl cheats they use.

One would think that would be a good way to get baned.

[Gokku]

so your saying it doesn't affect you in any way and that your just bitching to bitch, thats what i figured.

ill give SE that , since everything is client side it really allows for endless expansion. much like ffxiv has stated they will allow user made content as long as it conforms to a set standard in version 2.0 , and that the content wouldn't be available to console users.

best part is you could report me to the task force until your blue in the face , nothing i use breaks game mechanics so i wont get banned ive got 0 infractions on my account and ive been using pc with cheats since idk 04? might have been 05.

[user201108211515]

lol easy mode player. You are in the way of real players with actual skill. You are a farse a pretender. You do not deserve to play a game if you cant follow the rules. That is how you affect other players.

You should go do something you are good at. Something you can take some pride in. Cheating to win is a failure no matter how you try to justify it.

[user201108211515]

Think of this as an amusement park ride. and 2/3 of the people in line are patiently waiting a turn as the rules dictate. but 1/3 of the people think they can just cut in line.

IDK about anyone else but I'm not gonna just stand there and watch it happen. I'm gonna call people out. I'm gonna complain to the management. And I'm going to tell the people cheating the rules that they should be ashamed of them selves.

Not even tryn to mention how your parrents failed to teach you right from wrong.

But the message you send to the kids playn this game is its ok to cheat to win.

The bad karma people like you spread is a plague. You cheat people and they feel the need to get even. get cheats too so they can compete. next thing ya know.. You cant find a LS or a group where some pretender is mocking people for not having the best gear and how only you and your 3rd pt tools are awesome cauz the parse says so.

You are a joke.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Why are people still arguing about this shit, is this 2007?

[user201108211515]

for the same reason they are still cheating since 2004. SE allows them to. Real players have to complain or else nothing gets done.

[Gokku]

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/2b99347eb8fd4891d194a43e7f1b6423.jpg
oh man look at all them hacks!

[user201108211515]

idk why you are so mad. You play on easy mode. what more do you want?

[Gokku]

could you please define your understanding of the term "mad"

[user201108211515]

idk you are the one posting pointless screen shots and changing the subject cauz you are afraid of the answer.

Why do you play on easy mode if you are so good?

[Nala]

eh... thought easy mode was abyssea, playing efficiently is not easy mode, not getting one shoted by NM's for being in aoe range is not easy mode its just sensible.

[user201108211515]

but you see it is. You should know ranges just by looking at your in game radar. Shouldnt need a program to tell you something so simple. But thanks for another example of how easy, easy mode, really is ^^

*edit: As a console player I forget all the cheat codes PC players get. For those that might not know this person is refering to a 3rd pt tool that tells you how far away you are from a target. Good for avoiding AoE as he stated and for bad rangers to know where to stand to not have crappy range attacks. AKA:easy mode ^^

[Dreamin]

so your saying it doesn't affect you in any way and that your just bitching to bitch, thats what i figured.

ill give SE that , since everything is client side it really allows for endless expansion. much like ffxiv has stated they will allow user made content as long as it conforms to a set standard in version 2.0 , and that the content wouldn't be available to console users.

best part is you could report me to the task force until your blue in the face , nothing i use breaks game mechanics so i wont get banned ive got 0 infractions on my account and ive been using pc with cheats since idk 04? might have been 05.


Thanks for the laughes. Someone coming to the OF and admitting that they are using 3rd party cheats and there's nothing SE can do about it. That take balls...

...okay and brainless too tbh. But seriously, I can't stop laughing at this post. Thanks for the entertainment.

[Gokku]

when you've got ls members flee boting around at 200% for 9months straight 24/7 with 0 jail time... yea SE's not really concerned with people 3rd party usage.

[user201108211515]

Wow did your parrents teach you to be proud of cheating at a kids game?

Do they know what you really do all day? Cheat people you never meet. Talk down to people you deem under you because you have the best cheats arround. Would they really be proud of you?

I would sure hope not.

[Neisan_Quetz]

In game radar, please stop killing me here

[Demon6324236]

he is right though whn he says cheats (well light cheats like windower) were created to compensate the DEV's lack of playing the game. lol yeah, 10 year and still 6 macro lines, every year we get hundreds of gear.. come on..

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is correct, Windower, and some things in or like it, have been made to fix SE's flaws in their game they will not do themselves. There is no reason not to give us more macro lines other than potential skilling up while afk, solvable via not actually giving us unlimited lines, 20 would work.


Distance: Oh frogs charm @ 20yalms? thats cool se to bad a fucking yalms a made up term and you gave us no way of knowing it. yet again shit they should have added to the game day 1 if they are going to base gimics around it.

Gokku is also correct in the fact of yalms. Do you want to tell me how the fuck you measure these? Can you eyeball the distance of yalms and say your 22.3 yalms from the mob? If to, I commend your attention to SE's system, at the same time, your lying out your ass more than likely.

They would have to get rid of to many players on the PC to get rid of people using windower. And PCs normally are the biggest MMO member supplier, because its where we have forums, we have to pay our billing, and its overall easier on us, let me just point this out though, you want PC people removed from you. Did you notice? They stopped making this game for anything EXCEPT the PC, also its only via digital download, they will not do this for Xbox either. What this means is if they did it, you would see almost no new players on your Xbox/PS2 servers you want. Soon as people leave, if they don't come back, your server just died a little more, and it wont get its life back.

Like it or not SE is lazy with this game when it comes to playing it. They do not care we want more macro spots and that they can do it they just make new content. I'm happy with this, if people using windower get this to help them, cool, less time on SE and more time on my new content. You said how hard is it to hit 2 macros. Being your on a console I don't expect you to know but from what I have ever seen with my PC, my Xbox is much easier to hit macros fast. PC I have to wait about a second for it to pop up my macros, then hit the button, after I do this though I have a problem, they take about 3 seconds before they will pop up, if I need 3 macros your talking about 10 seconds... no. My 360 gets that same 3 macros hit in 3-4 seconds at most because you can hit the trigger after hitting your macro and it pops up instantly.

You want to blame the PC players because you are not one, thats about as easy as I can say it, blame a different group because 1 did something in them so everyone must pay. If you don't like that people use windower, then bitch to SE to get off their ass and fix a 10 year old problem they have had no reason not to. I myself have never seen a use for Windower, because in the only time I have looked at it, it has many useless things to it that might be cheating in some form. Only thing I want from windower is macros. Call it an easy button if you want, but your wrong, its simply a user patch to a flawed game people cant get them to fix.

[user201108211515]

no i did it to show all the "drop console" players how stupid they sound. You did that nicely thanks.

You call things flaws then complain to SE about it. You have no right to change the rules as you see fit. That is called cheating. You might as well plug in your game genie while you are at it cauz where will a cheater really draw the line. You lack the morles to know right from wrong and I dont have 18 years to teach you where your parrents failed you.

[Neisan_Quetz]

You know using information outside the game is cheating right


Not to mention for there has been at least one contest you had to actively break the ToS to even enter the contest so it's pretty clear SE does not care.

[Aldersyde]

when you've got ls members flee boting around at 200% for 9months straight 24/7 with 0 jail time... yea SE's not really concerned with people 3rd party usage.

I remember, this one time, when people were duping salvage drops and there was a whole bunch of people on some forum saying that SE would never be able to catch all the dupers and even if they could, SE would never ban them because it was their mistake for having shitty code and it would destroy the game; then one day, a whole bunch of people got banned. A lot of laughs were had and one guy looked such a moron that he never showed showed his face under that name again. Good times.

Coming on to SE's forums and saying crap like that is just stupid. If people complain a lot, you can bet that someone will start looking in to it. And given their history with banning fishers and gardeners en masse and with little due process, i wouldn't hope for any kind of reasonable response on an issue like this when it happens.

[Dragoy]

You said how hard is it to hit 2 macros. Being your on a console I don't expect you to know but from what I have ever seen with my PC, my Xbox is much easier to hit macros fast. PC I have to wait about a second for it to pop up my macros, then hit the button, after I do this though I have a problem, they take about 3 seconds before they will pop up, if I need 3 macros your talking about 10 seconds... no. My 360 gets that same 3 macros hit in 3-4 seconds at most because you can hit the trigger after hitting your macro and it pops up instantly.

They actually did reduce the time for the palette to show up, but it brought up certain issues so I imagine it's put on hold fer now, if not discarded completely.

On another note, last time I checked, you can actually activate a macro without waiting for the palette to become visible. Sometimes they do not work even if they're visible, though, but that's a different matter altogether!

[Demon6324236]

no i did it to show all the "drop console" players how stupid they sound. You did that nicely thanks.

You call things flaws then complain to SE about it. You have no right to change the rules as you see fit. That is called cheating. You might as well plug in your game genie while you are at it cauz where will a cheater really draw the line. You lack the morles to know right from wrong and I dont have 18 years to teach you where your parrents failed you.

Actually no, see PC gamers could lose consoles and we would lose players, but we also have the only form of the game that is still able to be purchased, meaning our community wouldn't rot and die nearly as much because we can get new players. Consoles would because there is no ability for new players. Your ideals that cheating is anything and everything that is a 3rd party tool, is wrong, simple. If a company stops doing something for a game and people mod the game in a way that betters it, then the mod is not cheating, its infact fixing or adding to the game in question. Example, Star Wars:Empire at War. This game is never going to be touched by its makers, it has nothing coming to it, however people mod it and add content and fixes alot. Why is this the same? Because, SE has left us 10 years with this broken setup and they never fix it. So fans did what fans do, rather than watch a game we all love suffer because of this problem, we rise up, and we fixed it. Over these years all they have had to do is integrate some of what Windower has, and they would have been fine, you want to look for cheaters, look at people cheating via dat mods for lamps/NMs/Claim bots/flee shit. Windower is not your main problem your going to have, trust me.

[user201108211515]

people swore up n down that salvage duping was in the game for a reason and this is how SE wanted us to do it thats why the drop rates were so bad. Lots of lols later we saw how that turned out.

Who is willing to bet it wont happen again to NNI cheaters.

[Demon6324236]

people swore up n down that salvage duping was in the game for a reason and this is how SE wanted us to do it thats why the drop rates were so bad. Lots of lols later we saw how that turned out.

Who is willing to bet it wont happen again to NNI cheaters.

I'm sure it will, because they are cheating. My question is, after they ban this group, how many people will there be left who can do this content without it being a waste? And better yet, will this small number make SE reevaluate their ideas about this, or will they be ignorant as normal?

[user201108211515]

did you once in 10 years complain to SE about the problems you have? Or instead you took matters into your own hands. I'm sure it starts with windower. But consider it a gate way drug to cheating.

Deny it all you want but it is console players that keep this game alive. We are the one farming for the items you buy with exploited gil. With out us you would have to go farm things your self. Sure hope you can find a bot for that. Else you might quit the game cauz farming is hard.. Wonder if SE knows farming is hard. May be they will change it for you easy mode players and items you need will just be delivered via mog house.

get real man. You are only fooln your self. Breaking the rules is cheating no matter what excuses you have. You want things to change for the better how about being part of the soloution not adding to the problem.

Were here to complain about how the game is broken. You would prefer we take matters into our own hands and just cheat?

Its not ps2/3 or xbox players that cant play by the rules.

The best part about this is how so many people cried about how aby was sooo easy and the game is a joke now. So SE makes something hard and people just cheat it. They would cheat leigon too but is no where for them to speed hack away to.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Ahahaha, don't even begin to, ahaha, you think far too highly of yourself.

Think you got who is fooling themselves mixed up

[user201108211515]

sorry I have self respect. Guess you wouldnt understand.

[Neisan_Quetz]

It's okay, you clearly have no clue how people are making gil or gathering items in this game either.

[user201108211515]

clearly cauz you know everything. Or bothered to read any of this post before trolling.

Choco blinkers and fish bots is how "exploiters" are geting gil.

Guess you havent noticed the inflation. clearly have no clue how people are making gil or gathering items in this game either.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Voidwatch must be cheating too then, you get exp and cruor per fight
So is abyssea since that's where nearly everything gives you some form of cruor and you can burn it then turn it into gil

[user201108211515]

trolln on 1 liners isnt really proving your point.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Neither is trolling on level 1 mules

[user201108211515]

what difference does it make? I need to show off my gear to have my point be valid? Your troll attempt isnt very good.

[Dragoy]

What does NEO Nyzul 2.0 mean even.

New Nyzul the second?
Should it be NEO Nyzul 1.0?

This NEO-fad that has been going on (since the Dynamis changes?) is annoying me almost as much as calling monsters MOBs!

What were we talking about again?
Oh right, nothing!

Wait what? I think it was about the Nyzul Isle Uncharted Regions being planned in a poor, wrong, altogether messed up fashion, no?

For discussion about cheating this is not (methinks?), and it probably is borderline a violation of them so called guide-lines of the forum so...

(Yeah, I know that's funny.)

[Neisan_Quetz]

You're the one claiming I'm trolling, I just had to laugh at you thinking console players are holding up anything but updates.

Inflation, Neo Nyzul none of those affect anyone at level 1, hiding behind a mule is purely so you can troll

Then you have the gall to say I have no self respect while hiding behind a level 1 mule, hyprocrite much?

[Demon6324236]

did you once in 10 years complain to SE about the problems you have? Or instead you took matters into your own hands. I'm sure it starts with windower. But consider it a gate way drug to cheating.

There have been many times people have complained about 6 lines for a macro only. Seeing how far it has got us by now I have no reason to complain anymore, I feel like a lil kid yelling through the house I want more than the 6 legos I got. My parents don't give a damn I need more legos to actually build something, either I deal with it or I find a way of getting more outside of my parents because my parents are to busy with their soap opera to bother getting me more of them.


Deny it all you want but it is console players that keep this game alive. We are the one farming for the items you buy with exploited gil. With out us you would have to go farm things your self. Sure hope you can find a bot for that. Else you might quit the game cauz farming is hard.. Wonder if SE knows farming is hard. May be they will change it for you easy mode players and items you need will just be delivered via mog house.

I am quite sure console players make up a good portion of the game, I am also sure that a PC only game of FFXI would sustain itself better than a PS2/Xbox community would, not because PC people are awesome, like I said, PC can be bought still and thus has new players. I have been trying to get a friend of mine on this game for a long time, he has a bad PC that couldn't run the game so he needs it for 360, but outside of Amazon wanting $200+ for it we have had no real luck. If you can tell me where you would find it not only would it help me but I will retract the idea that PC can sustain an influx of new players better than either PS2 or Xbox can.


get real man. You are only fooln your self. Breaking the rules is cheating no matter what excuses you have. You want things to change for the better how about being part of the soloution not adding to the problem.

Then tell me, how long must a player wait for his/her game to be fixed by its creators before taking matters into their own hands. It is not hard to see where this game is broken or where they let us fix it ourselves, even in some cases doing so just to help themselves as well. A case of this would be inventory, I think they could probably fix the fact we run out, however they make money off of mules people make and transfer items, now they make money and we have more room. If they fixed this, we would still have more room but they don't get the extra $ for us paying to have more space, which we already do/did with their satchel.


Were here to complain about how the game is broken. You would prefer we take matters into our own hands and just cheat?

No, I don't want to cheat, I want to fix the game, I have no problems telling people where they are wrong. SE is wrong with VW drop, they are wrong for relying on luck for NNI as well. If it were possible yes, I would say "cheat" and give someone a Mekira body & their belt after their 100th Kaggen, you know why? Some people get it their 1st kill, now tell me how thats not broken. If this teaches you a lesson for life its "Try and try again, but sometimes life just fucks you in the ass while others get shit the easy way with no effort :D" not how it should be. If you agree with this you are wrong. Simple and true, its like saying people born into a rich family should have to do nothing, they are above you, while everyone else who has to work for things but make it no where are being treated fairly. Not true, its because the world is broken, cant fix the world, can fix a game, so no reason why we shouldn't.


Its not ps2/3 or xbox players that cant play by the rules.

Yep and they cant break them, give those same players the power to cheat and watch how long they play without windower once they look at it and see it makes things they way it should be. When you have the power to do something your much more tempted to. In other words, you follow the rules yes, but you also have no choice, you cant break them, so its an unfair role to play.


The best part about this is how so many people cried about how aby was sooo easy and the game is a joke now. So SE makes something hard and people just cheat it. They would cheat leigon too but is no where for them to speed hack away to.

I agree, people did this because they were to laid back by Abyssea, it made them forget how hard shit can be, but the thing is, its luck, luck should never be the idea where you place all your content, where lucky=win unlucky=failure. Effort=Reward & Laziness=Nothingness, thats how it should be, work should be rewarded while doing nothing will get you nothing. If Gokku in fact has done all these things he said in only 2 months he shows to a point that ideal still exists, I however think its more a matter of extreme luck if someone were able to get all of that as well. Because no matter of skill offsets VW, and only so much time can be saved in NNI, luck will always play a factor. I do not want luck entirely removed, it is a fundamental idea of what RPGs have, but the massive amount of luck needed for the content is outrageous. For this reason, I will say if I did 30 runs back to back of NNI where my group is doing 15 floors a run legit and we fail at floor 80 every time because of bad jumps... your damn right, Ill cheat at that point, because if I'm doing what people say needs done to win, and is mathematically correct, but luck is whats stopping me, at that point the game goes from being fair, to being full of shit.

[user201108211515]

Yea I'm level 1 lol. Why would you argue with me then if that is what you think lol.

Been playn for 8+ years and still only LV 1 lol

Like the guy said, stay on topic.

Were talkn about NNI and how the only people to get floor 100 cheated or leeched of people cheating.

[user201108211515]

lol yea and instead of being a good little boy you decided to steal some legos. Thats kind of a bratty move.

Just because we complain about it wont mean SE will change it. 6 line macros is not ruining the game to an extent that you have to use spell cast or else you cant play the game. The game works just fine as is in reguards to macros. That you have issues hiting 2 macros to do things and have to use a 3rd pt tool to make the game easier for you.. is your problem. You wana cheat.. cant stop you but I sure can complain about people that cheat. If you happen to be in that boat. sorry. IDC what your excuses are. You are breaking the rules. You dont like the rules of the game then dont play. But cheating and then lookn at me ugly cauz I say it causes problems. Thats just your issues with reality.

I agree too its anoying to have a luck event like this but cheating the rules wont make it better. You have to do what were doing now.. complaining. Attacking me a LV 1 noob wont make the content any easier.

The fact that people have to hack to win should say it all to SE. But we are still waiting for a fix. So we have to continue to complain.. our options are to be part of the problem or part of the soloution? Or rather... risk it and break the rules and hope no ban hammer falls.

[Demon6324236]

Yea I'm level 1 lol. Why would you argue with me then if that is what you think lol.

Been playn for 8+ years and still only LV 1 lol

Like the guy said, stay on topic.

Were talkn about NNI and how the only people to get floor 100 cheated or leeched of people cheating.

No, you misunderstand, we were talking about how NNI is unfair and unbalanced, not how everyone cheats & leeches to win. But that it is unbalanced for that reason. We went off topic when we went to the idea of everyone cheating to win and that being the only way and it only went on from there.

My opinion on this topic is that we are basically going to have to wait till SE bans the cheaters, if they ban all cheaters at some point, then we will be able to watch as nearly no one has the gear from it, and that will be either good, or bad. And then SE will either leave it, or fix it, I'm hoping the fix it idea, but we know SE, fixing isn't something they do well, they are like a plummer who comes out to fix your pipes, but while they are fixing them they cause 3 more leaks they don't notice, and your calling em back out the next day, and again, because they are the only plummer in the next 100 miles.

[user201108211515]

pretty sure thats what I said but ok.. What you said instead. The game will be just fine after the ban hammer falls. People said it would be the death of FF when salvage bans hit. we are still here. Pretty sure we will survive just fine with out them. And odds are no one will even remember them when they are gone.

Salvage is much easier now btw VS when it 1st came out so odds are NNI will get easier too after they ban people.

SE likes to do that.. its like a double insult to injury. If people would have just waited they would have had a fair chance.

[Demon6324236]

lol yea and instead of being a good little boy you decided to steal some legos. Thats kind of a bratty move.

Well not a perfect example, point was you cant do much you should be able to with 6...


Just because we complain about it wont mean SE will change it. 6 line macros is not ruining the game to an extent that you have to use spell cast or else you cant play the game. The game works just fine as is in reguards to macros. That you have issues hiting 2 macros to do things and have to use a 3rd pt tool to make the game easier for you.. is your problem. You wana cheat.. cant stop you but I sure can complain about people that cheat. If you happen to be in that boat. sorry. IDC what your excuses are. You are breaking the rules. You dont like the rules of the game then dont play. But cheating and then lookn at me ugly cauz I say it causes problems. Thats just your issues with reality.

Like I said, tell me how long it is a maker of a game can leave something broken before the players are allowed to fix the game. If the players truly care about the game they will try to fix or improve it with or without the makers because we want the game to be better, we dont want to leave it for another game because of its simple minor flaws. I love this game, I play this game everyday, I know many people on it and talk to alot of them every day. I have no intent to leave it, but I am also not the kind of person that deals with broken things. If its broke fix it, but SE isnt, thats my problem with them and why I think Windower works. And I dont think Windower is cheating, its 3rd party which is against the rules, yes, but its also an improvement that fans of this game have asked and begged for, for a long time, and without any help from them fans will do what must be done to improve the game.

Edit:Example of this is I'm 100% sure there will be a mod for ME3 someday (if it allows for mods, not sure, never saw all to many for ME2 like we did with KotOR or DA:O) to fix the ending, people have raged up and down at that ending, and people want it changed, Bioware says they will fix it, if they don't, I am 100% sure that fans will do what they can to take it into their own hands and do what the makers were unable to do, which was satisfy the player base.

Side note: I know I keep talking about other companys and their games but they are what mostly comes to mind as my examples. Like with now, not fixing their game, I think fans will do it themselves if possible, in FFXI it was possible, and thus, it was done.


I agree too its anoying to have a luck event like this but cheating the rules wont make it better. You have to do what were doing now.. complaining. Attacking me a LV 1 noob wont make the content any easier.

I dont care what level you are or who you are, that matters to me about as much as who you are in real life, you could be a dev for all I care, Ill tell you all the same, we are complaining, and we have been complaining, and we are getting nothing done by complaining, because this company does not care to change its ideas around its customers, they are doing the wrong thing, but this doesnt matter to them.


The fact that people have to hack to win should say it all to SE. But we are still waiting for a fix. So we have to continue to complain.. our options are to be part of the problem or part of the soloution? Or rather... risk it and break the rules and hope no ban hammer falls.

This is partially correct, it should say it all to SE, but it apparently doesn't. And were not waiting for a fix, because they came here and told us were not getting one, we continue to complain and seem to be making no ground. As for our options, you make it sound as if cheating is helping the solution because it shows them its that damn bad, we are cheating just to beat it. However I know your saying cheating is the wrong thing, I understand your point of view on this and I agree with everything NNI related.

I will not however say at any time I think Windower is cheating the way I have ever used it. By this I mean I removed every single app on the thing. I use it for either 1, running scripts as macros thus I am not limited to only the 6 lines, I can use 16 line macros to change my entire set of gear in 1 press, as it should be. If you saw my old way it was a mess, my RDM macros alone, I had 1 row, TP/WS/TP/Enhancing/TP/Enfeebling/TP/Healing/TP/Nuking. I had all these copys of TP macros because I needed to have 5 of them, 1 for every set I changed to it from, because they all had different pieces I had to change, this was a mess and I will never think the game should be run like that, its messy, crazy, and generally not how a company working on its 10 year old MMO should operate, they should be better than this by now. My 2nd reason is I play my gfs character as well when needed. Now I only have 1 copy of this game for Xbox, so I can have my 2nd account on there, but my gf I couldn't get on and play all 3 at the same time. Now my problem with this is Windower very easily allows you to open more than 1 FFXI window, which the original FFXI will not let you do. Thats the only 2 reasons why Windower isn't cheating, if you use all its apps, yes, by all means I will call it cheating. Afk skilluping is cheating. Knowing where NMs will pop before they do is cheating. But giving us more macro spots, no, I think that is perfectly fair game.

[Demon6324236]

pretty sure thats what I said but ok.. What you said instead. The game will be just fine after the ban hammer falls. People said it would be the death of FF when salvage bans hit. we are still here. Pretty sure we will survive just fine with out them. And odds are no one will even remember them when they are gone.

Salvage is much easier now btw VS when it 1st came out so odds are NNI will get easier too after they ban people.

SE likes to do that.. its like a double insult to injury. If people would have just waited they would have had a fair chance.

True but part of why its easier now is we are 24 levels higher, not sure if you just meant it got easier at 75 after they were banned, I wouldn't know, never paid much attention because I was never into end game content at that point.

[user201108211515]

really not about to read all that nonsence when you still dont understand that no ammount of time is enough to say you have the right to change the rules.

You do not have the right to change the rules just because you dont like them.

The game is not broken just cauz you say it is.

The game does not need you to fix it.

The game does not need 3rd pt tools to work properly.

The lies you tell your self. Leading you to beleive you are not doing wrong.. again.. your problem.

You dont like the rules. Go find a game that you do like the rules. Play that game.

Having a million excuses about it wont make you any less of a cheater.

[Arcon]

Wow, did this thread get derailed.. it's beautiful.


lol he says he wont troll n the very next line he calls me an idot. priceless lol

Insulting is not trolling, and his insult was quite fitting.


Justify it all you want. But in "reality" not following the rules is by default cheating.

No justification needed, using Windower is definitely cheating and no one's arguing that. But cheating isn't necessarily bad. There's a clear difference between (most of) the plugins Windower offers and flee/pos hacks or bots. Pretty much everything Windower has should have been in the game from day one. Without Windower most people wouldn't consider the game worth playing at all. And don't tell me that it is, because that is clearly your opinion, and you've shown everyone that your judgment cannot be trusted.


its funny though. You say you "out preform others" when in reality it is a program that plays the game for you that is so awesome.

This is yet another line that proves you have no clue what you're talking about. Windower does not do anything at all for you. It is not a bot and doesn't allow botting (unless used by very skilled people, and still only in a very limited way using timers, similar to the <wait> feature in macro lines). Windower is basically just a better user interface.

It's funny you're arguing about not knowing right from wrong but insist on following the rules blindly. A few hundred years ago slavery was legal. Does that make it right? As long as it's not illegal, you'd beat your wife? Is that your line of reasoning? If that's what your parents taught you, shame on them and shame of you for being so gullible to believe the bullshit they were feeding you.

Using Windower is neither good nor bad. There are people who use it who don't cheat at all, no plugins, just the ability to fix the game crash or prettier graphics. Are they bad? A tool doesn't make anyone bad, only how they use it. And Windower severely limits someone's ability to automate the game, even with AutoExec and SpellCast. The Windower team is actually quite vigilant about that, which is also why they don't tolerate any flee/pos hacks or similar programs. It all depends on where you draw the line. You obviously think everyone possessing a knife is a murderer, even if they use it for cooking. And if you feel comfortable with that line of thinking, good for you. But don't go telling others what right or wrong is, because you obviously don't have a hint of a clue on the subject.


Been playn for 8+ years and still only LV 1 lol

Judging by the intelligence of your posts it wouldn't surprise me.

[user201108211515]

"Pretty much everything Windower has should have been in the game from day one."

Says who? you? I didnt realise you were the game creator.

"A few hundred years ago slavery was legal. Does that make it right? As long as it's not illegal"

And look people complained and things were changed for the better. People didnt get a bot to make black people white and the problem was solved that way.. Do you think before you speak?

Another bad troll attempt from someone that thinks they have the best excuse for the use of cheats.

Nothing you can say will make the use of 3rd pt tools anything less then cheating. It is aginst the rules.

If you dont like the rules. Dont play or complain untill the rules are changed. But cheating and then acting like I'm the problem. You have reality issues as well.

You dont make the rules.

"Judging by the intelligence of your posts it wouldn't surprise me. "

I have to explain right n wrong to you yet you think you can question im intelligence. GL with that. You are more likely to wake up tomorrow with the skill to play this game with out cheating.

3rd pt tool users are a joke. You play on easy mode. You lack the skill to play the game by the rules.
Be mad about the truth, I'm sure it hurts. Make excuses all you want. It wont change anything.

[Arcon]

"Pretty much everything Windower has should have been in the game from day one."

Says who? you? I didnt realise you were the game creator.

Says the gaming standards across the board. Every game features most of these features now, and almost every game featured them back when FFXI was released.


"A few hundred years ago slavery was legal. Does that make it right? As long as it's not illegal"

And look people complained and things were changed for the better. People didnt get a bot to make black people white and the problem was solved that way.. Do you think before you speak?

Do you read before you reply? We are complaining. Or didn't you get what this entire thread was about? Also, the bot analogy is off, breaking the rules in that scenario would have been to integrate different races in social groupings.


Another bad troll attempt from someone that thinks they have the best excuse for the use of cheats.

Nothing you can say will make the use of 3rd pt tools anything less then cheating. It is aginst the rules.

Again, do you read before you reply? I stated bluntly that Windower is cheating and that no one is arguing otherwise. I'm not and I never was. I'm saying that cheating isn't necessarily bad. There are different stages of cheating. There are cheats of convenience, cheats for your own profit and lastly cheats at the expense of others. Windower falls into the first two categories. There is no flee/claim botting possible with Windower, so no one else suffers from other people using it. The fact that you're upset about it is evidence that the only thing hurting in your context is your ego.

[Nala]

Wow... i don't even... i mean... what? how's this for you, i've played on console up untill the last year and am among the few people who even understands how to fully utilize the /macro set command to legally "expand" gear swap macros (or macros in general)

I recently made a switch to windower, mostly for the improved graphics and the ability to KNOW how far i am from mobs, even without windower macros i can (and with some jobs i still do) swap out 15 pieces of gear in seconds (triple tapping the same macro chaining via /macro set x) but honestly this process was cumbersome, and if i made errors it could lower my efficiency, only thing windower macros do for me is eliminate that potential of error.

Also you have no pride in your own character if you can't post as yourself, i care not to hide, i take responsibility and ownership of my opinion, as such the character you see posting is who i play as, you on the other hand dare to mask yourself while demeaning others for lacking that which you are most devoid of.

Finish graduating high school before you come onto a forum and hormone rage at everyone else.

[user201108211515]

As if it would make you feel better to know all the gear I have. I dont need to show off to win an arguement about what I know is right. But do feel free to use that over and over as a way to make your self feel better.

I get it i really do people are tryn to say that cheating isnt so black and white. that some how you all are special and live in some grey area where rules and morles dont apply to you. some could say.. no where in reality.. but online where its ok to act like a scum bag and cheat at a kids game with out fear of bad karma.

And a special shout out to the grammar police. Gotta love em. when they cant win the arguement.. time to nip pick your spelling. That will prove how you are right and I'm so wrong. As if everyone on the planet has english as a main language.

[Dragoy]

I'm saying that cheating isn't necessarily bad. There are different stages of cheating. There are cheats of convenience, cheats for your own profit and lastly cheats at the expense of others.

Your posts usually are such that could be mine, but with this part I do disagree. While I probably understand your point and your view, it's not how it works. SqEX determines what is good and what is bad, more and less loosely in the User Agreement and Terms of Service.

Sure, there are levels to it, like, modifying the files of the game, or using something that simply 'parses' the data the game already provides. It's not about which is more bad than the other, it's just not allowed and that is it.

SqEX is more at fault than any player here though, really...


Just my thoughts~


I get it i really do people are tryn to say that cheating isnt so black and white. that some how you all are special and live in some grey area where rules and morles dont apply to you.

Funny that you mentioned grey areas, as I used that in my initial reply here, but I accidentally closed that tab so blubb...

[Demon6324236]

3rd pt tool users are a joke. You play on easy mode. You lack the skill to play the game by the rules.

Your right, I'm a shitty player, I suck at FFXI because I think instead of having to hit 2~3 macros to do something, I want to be able to only hit 1 macro. I show that I have so little skill in playing this game because of this. Technology does not prevent them from from making it only 1 macro, as fans, with our lesser knowledge, have been able to do just that... But ok, I'm done fighting with you, I play on both the 360 & PC, I know and understand what you have with the consoles, and what your missing, you don't it seems because you think Windower is bad. If next update they said they were giving us 16 rows a macro, you would shutup and be happy. We make due with what we have, simple as that, don't like it, goto PC and do the same. I don't care what you say, you can not call someones "skill" into question because they don't want to waste time hitting more buttons for a game to do the same thing. You play inefficiently, I cant blame you, your on a console, its how they are built, but you cant say people suck because they want to play the game in a way that works better just because the devs choose not to change it.

Let me give you one last parting gift as an example of their ignorance to change things though, this is a post I made in the Tanking area, in a thread about fixing tanking for PLD.



SE will not adjust enmity caps and they have already said they have no plans to adjust that.

End of the thread is here, because this means SE already said...


PLD is a job we no longer care to have used in content we create, as such, your enmity is fucked up, and shall remain as such. We are sorry to all PLDs out there who disagree with this, but we just don't care about your job anymore, or any idea of tanking, we would rather everything be a bunch of zergs and weakness procing. That is all.

So there you have it people, PLD is screwed, its use has been lived out and shall not be brought back due to SE not wanting to change their amazing Enmity system/cap that was flawed since we got our level cap higher than 75...

As it was said before, Enmity has been broken a long time, so tell me, why is it they are so ignorant they can not bother to change a flawed system that has no use anymore? It has made tanking die completely in this game. The reason is simple, SE does not want to fix their problems, they will give us new things, and they will leave us with the old problems. I would love to watch your attempt to tell me we fans have no right to say SE is wrong, and the Enmity system is fine how it is, just because of the stupidity needed to make that claim.

[Arcon]

Your posts usually are such that could be mine, but with this part I do disagree. While I probably understand your point and your view, it's not how it works. SqEX determines what is good and what is bad, more and less loosely in the User Agreement and Terms of Service.

And I disagree with this. SE determines what's allowed and what isn't, but that bears no implication on what's right or wrong (or good or bad). That would imply that rules are perfect, but they very rarely are. Rules are designed for a reason, and people usually like to assume that it's for a good cause. However, the rules were set up by normal humans. Whoever thought of it at SE headquarters wasn't infallible. Third party tools are banned, but why? Why do other games allow them freely? SE thinks it's a good way to prevent botting/hacking, but nothing could be further from the truth. Hacks and bots have a much easier timer working around the rules and restrictions than normal humans have, hence it's just making it easier for the people abusing such exploits, while regular players suffer.

The real way to approach this would be to address the actual problems, not the means people employ to exploit them. One very right thing they did was randomize the claim timer on spawn. While that alone was not enough to stop the botting, it made it a lot harder for most of them (even rendered some of them ineffective), while giving casual players a fighting chance.

Similar to this, they shouldn't flat out ban third party applications when trying to get rid of flee/pos hacks. There's some semi-easy way to find out if someone is hacking positions or increase their movement speed that they could employ in most cases. Instead they discourage an entire market that many other games employ to strengthen the game's community. Which still wouldn't be too bad, if they were able/willing to implement these changes themselves.

Again, for the slowpoke above:
No one disagrees on the fact that Windower is against the rules. It even says so on the Windower main page. People don't have a problem with being called cheaters, people have a problem with the rules themselves. And they are complaining. They have been for almost a decade now and some things still aren't fixed. People will keep informing SE of things to change, and I for one hope that one day Windower will be completely obsolete. But in the meantime, most will use whatever tools they have available to make the game more enjoyable to them.

[user201108211515]

Sure I can. You cheat at a game. How can we cant call your skill into question. Babe ruth was never taken to court for cheating. So no one can argue his greatness. But barry bonds cheated at a game and got cought and will forever be a joke. But I'm glad to be done arguing with you barry. Your denial of reality is very tiring. If tomorrow SE did give us 16 line macros that still wouldnt chage the fact that people are hacking to win at NNI.

You fail to ever make a point that some how says its ok for you to cheat cauz you say the rules dont apply to you. Again that is your issue with reality.

The enm topic is something you might want to take to pld forums where people might care. Get a thread going, complain, get others to complain. I never said SE makes good decisions.. Actually I dont like 90% of what SE has done to help ruin this game. But I cant do anything about it my self. I have to get other people to complain as well.

I play by the rules. For 8+ years I have watched as cheaters get everything handed to them and SE rarely if ever did anything about it. So no. you are mistaking me for someone else. I feel SE is just as much to blame for allowing people to cheat as the cheaters them selves. It shouldnt have taken 7ish years to fix HNM but it did. Does it anoy me sure.. but its been changed so that no longer can PC players prevent honest players at a chance to play by the rules.

That is all we want for NNI a chance to play by the rules. But no one wants to go unless the hacks are there too. So our options are to never go or get hacks of our own and that is not fair. So how else can we weed out the bad eggs?

[user201108211515]

Just because you dont like the rules does not mean you can break the rules.

Just because you complain and it is not changed right this instand if ever.. does not mean you can just break the rules.

If you dont like the rules then dont play. Go play a game that you agree with the rules.

You act as if you ca just change the rules of life as you see fit. You going to start muging people because you dont want to go to work anymore? I mean where do you draw the line? When are you held to a higher standard in life? Where rules apply to you. Or was I missinformed and the universe does infact revolve arround you. Get real. Get with reality.

[Demon6324236]

Its fairly simple, as I said, there are smart, logical rules, and stupid, illogical rules. "No botting, no flee hacking, no creating gear out of thin air." these are logical, in real life "No killing, no fighting, no stealing" again, logical. "No improving our game in places we refuse to make changes due to the fact we do not wish to change old and out dated systems." This, is illogical, improvement is good, never bad, thats why it is called improvement. In real life, you have "You can not marry someone you love because to bad for you, they have a penis just like you do" again, illogical, some rules are smart, some are not. Yes, I have every reason and right to my opinion on these rules. And I will openly break any rule of which has no true reason to exist.

To say I cannot improve means I am supposed to leave it in a worse state, however this is foolish, that is to say rather than put in extra support on a building that is slowly falling apart, I should just let it fall and break into lil tiny pieces. Using mugging someone as an example is stupid, mugging someone I am taking something they earned away from them, and giving it to myself. I am not asking take macros away from Xbox & PS2 players, and then give all the PC players all 18 slots to ourselves >:D no, I am saying I want everyone, yes, everyone, to have more spots. Now, this is something SE does not want to do, like Enmity, (which you failed to see my point on) they see it as an old system they want to leave alone. That is bad, you should fix problems, not let them go and get worse. Should I leave myself without extra spots for macros because PS2 and Xbox players cant have it? No, just like if me & a friend go buy 2 icecream cones and they drop theirs, I'm not just gonna throw mine on the ground and say "whoops" and move on, I already licked mine so I doubt you want to do anything like share it or take my cone, so Imma eat mine. I cant give you more spots, if I could, rest assured I would, but I cant, I can give myself more though, and Ill be damned if Imma play by some rules that make no sense so if anything SE will try to shut us up with a lame excuse like...


We are unable to give you more macro spaces due to limitations brought on by the Playstation 2s unable to run that many lines of code in a short time.

You can play by your flawed rules in the reality that your doing the right thing. I will be enjoying my game how it should be, improved, in the real world where sometimes rules, are bad, and those rules, can, and should be broken, and broken things, are improved upon.

Edit:Sorry, I feel obligated to reply to people when I feel they don't understand something I say and when they seem ignorant to the truth of things, I was hoping you would understand my words and leave it alone rather than reply in a manner that I find stupid and or insulting.

[MarkovChain]

Please find were i said i never used 3rd party. i do know ive done every run without a flee bot though.

I know all the idiots from BG (like you) that comes HERE and the DEVs think "flee hacks" when I say "you cannot win without cheating". But no, I explicitely explained that I was targetting "seing through walls" and "changing lamp names to win 100% as well as to know how many lamps there are". So you are admitting you cheated you nyzul gear, but yet you come to the thread throwing random "you suck, I'm back for 2 months and I already have it", so what was your point again ? Mr Troll. I see you already reported the thread into the internet police lol. Point is you are agreing with me so stop arguing against. The thread might end up fixing the lack of windower for the game or at the very least fixing nyzul which we all would like.


If the devs don't clearly answer on the 2 cheats I explained above ( there are probably others like seeing mobs from very far), we will all conclude that this event is expected to be cleared with windower and dat mods.

[user201108211515]

"No improving our game in places we refuse to make changes due to the fact we do not wish to change old and out dated systems."

but I cant, I can give myself more though, and Ill be damned if Imma play by some rules that make no sense so if anything SE will try to shut us up with a lame excuse like...

More lame excuses indeed. This is you demanding something and then throwing a hissy fit when you dont get your way. Then you take it a step further and just take what you feel you are owed. When in fact you take away from the integrity of the game. Untill such time that everyone has access to 16 line macros. anyone not using 6 line macros would infact be cheating. You do not live in some magical grey area where rules you dont like dont apply to you.

[Zerich]

When did this thread go from a conversation about nyzul, to Gimpswhowanttonerfeverythingbuttheirjobs v. Sanepeople?

[Demon6324236]

This is you demanding something and then throwing a hissy fit when you dont get your way. Then you take it a step further and just take what you feel you are owed.

I feel everyone is owed content and interface that is equal to the money we are putting into this game, we pay for it each month, and so far we keep getting told they will fix nothing, add small things that hardly matter because of things like this thread. A thread to say "Hey look SE, this shit ain't working!" because content you cannot complete might as well not exist, its like putting in a boss fight you literally cant win, whats the point? You want me to die a bunch just to prove a point? But thats what they did, I don't like it, I complain about it, and I wont cheat to beat it because I don't care, Ill give them time. Macros however, are 10 years old, and need fixed, you don't leave a broken down car that can drive some, but only at 30miles a hour and with 2 flat tires in your drive way, you get that shit fixed, you take a few weeks or months? Thats understandable, but 10 years? Come on, at that point you just say fuck it and you know your not fixing it.


When in fact you take away from the integrity of the game. Untill such time that everyone has access to 16 line macros. anyone not using 6 line macros would infact be cheating. You do not live in some magical grey area where rules you dont like dont apply to you.

No, I don't, rules apply to me just as much as you, and I admit yes, I am doing something you can't, so yes, by your meaning I guess I'm cheating. You want to call fixing a 10 year old problem with the game cheating, do it, its still fixing it. You don't seem to get it, these rules are here to stop botting, .dat cheating, and yes, some of the shit found in windower plug-ins. But I am sure it was never meant to block players from fixing up something in this game. Thats just the player base helping to fix some of the problems the game has, working together with SE in a way to help them, and help ourselves. I don't do anything I think of as cheating in this game, I play it the same as everyone else, as I said, I removed everything from Windower. It looks like yours and everyone else's FFXI normally does, my only difference is, instead of having my macros limited to 6 lines, its got 1 line that says to look in a folder on my PC, and do that, which has 16 lines of text saying what my macro should, but cant.

When you convince SE to stop ignoring the player base for 10 years about a simple problem that would probably take little effort to fix other than it would make people playing have to redo some macros (Oh noes I have to redo some macros because they made them better D:) Ill stop "cheating", till then, get off everyones back. Cheating is breaking a rule to a game, in most cases a bad thing when it is detrimental to the other players, this isn't, its advantageous to some, and meaningless to others, which means it isn't hurting you, it is only helping me. If you have 6, and I have 6, then someone walks over and gives me 10, I have 16, this does not take away from your 6. You still have 6, thus you are not hurt, however I have 16, I am assisted. When this game becomes PvP savvy, yes, I will be cheating because I will have a competitive advantage, (not really because the majority of macros are 100% worthless in PvP due to gear swap restrictions) till then, me having a better macro setup is no different than saying you use macros, some people don't know how to use macros, so until you teach every player on this game to use them, don't use them, its cheating!



And just to say, as I said before, you cannot say I suck at a game or I am unskilled because I choose to improve my performance or my interface of a game. You can call me lazy, that would be the correct term I think for someone who would rather only hit 1 button instead of 3, or you can call them efficient, which ever you choose. The fact I wish to use a better system doesn't mean I'm worse at the game, simply that I do something that makes me do less work to do simple actions, such as weapon skill, you want me to get 100% TP, hit 3 macros, hit 2 buttons to WS, and then hit 3 more to go back to TPing, do you realize how stupid that is and sounds?

[Demon6324236]

When did this thread go from a conversation about nyzul, to Gimps/who/want/to/nerf/everything/but/their/jobs v. Sane/people?

(Edited quote so it doesn't make my head hurt trying to read it ;>_>)
I think it was page 7 post 70, seemed to be when the arguing over cheating started if thats what you meant, just job nerfing was about pages 6~7 but didn't last very long.

[MarkovChain]

Banning cheaters in nyzul will never happen except for flee hacks. Lamp name changing is undetectable, and fillmode is undetectable. So the hypothesis of "salvage ban"-like mass bannings can't possibly happen. Also the discussion derailed a bit on windower and windower macro. I think they are a good thing that the game should have had for long BUT this clearly doesn't affect Neo Nyzul 2.0, because as I explained most problems were changing lamp names (doesn't require windower but only a text editor..) and fillmode (does require windower).

To the DEVS reading the thread, that are not convinced people cheat their way to Floor 100 I reiterate my suggestion :

Analyze all F100 winning runs, and out of all those run examine the number of runs that had a "lamp order" objective. Out of all those run, calculate the proportion where people went 1/1 on guessing the correct order. I'll promise I'll shut up if you don't find out 100%. That means two things

* Either guessing all "lamp order" floors on the first time is required to win a NEO-Nyzul 2.0, in which case you all should be fired for suggesting such a trash event.
* Either everyone cheats.

Up to you to guess which it is, I think it's the second explanation ^^

[wish12oz]

I encourage everyone saying Nyzul's fine, like I did Kaerin several weeks ago when she claimed a WAR could hit Floor 100 solo with full buffs, to post videos of their dat-swapless, fillmode-less, multiple-attempts-to-figure-out-lamp-order Floor 100 clears that they're getting enough to be 15/15 on gear like six weeks ago.

Still waiting, Kaerin! (b^^)b

I never said I would post a video, and there's no need to, math will tell you all you need to know.

The truth is if you can clear floors with an average time of 2 minutes, this gives you a 15 floor per run average, you only need to average 6.6 floors per jump to reach 100 and win. Any half decent group will easily meet that standard. Considering the average is 5.5, this is actually just a bit above average, but it will really only happen maybe 5-10% of the time. But seriously, even at 5-10% win rate, or you can still get this gear. That's still at least 1 piece of very good gear every other week, that only requires 30~ min of effort every day.

If you can push your average floors from 15 to 16-17, which is just under 2 min per floor average, which is amazingly easy to do, you will get that one piece of gear every week. By FFXI standards, that's absolutely amazing, and you should all be ashamed of yourselves for not trying to get it.

And seriously, people are still complaining about windower? Didn't SE just come out and say they were redesigning and completely overhauling the entire PC user interface for the game and letting people basically make windower plug ins that will function inside the actual game without windower?

[Demon6324236]

Banning cheaters in nyzul will never happen except for flee hacks. Lamp name changing is undetectable, and fillmode is undetectable. So the hypothesis of "salvage ban"-like mass bannings can't possibly happen. Also the discussion derailed a bit on windower and windower macro. I think they are a good thing that the game should have had for long BUT this clearly doesn't affect Neo Nyzul 2.0, because as I explained most problems were changing lamp names (doesn't require windower but only a text editor..) and fillmode (does require windower).

To the DEVS reading the thread, that are not convinced people cheat their way to Floor 100 I reiterate my suggestion :

Analyze all F100 winning runs, and out of all those run examine the number of runs that had a "lamp order" objective. Out of all those run, calculate the proportion where people went 1/1 on guessing the correct order. I'll promise I'll shut up if you don't find out 100%. That means two things

* Either guessing all "lamp order" floors on the first time is required to win a NEO-Nyzul 2.0, in which case you all should be fired for suggesting such a trash event.
* Either everyone cheats.

Up to you to guess which it is, I think it's the second explanation ^^

Actually I wouldn't say 100%, there are actually lucky times, or if everyone is cheating, people can be stupid and fuck it up, not that it would or wouldn't break the run just that I would say you might want to make that an 80~100% or so, seeing as that is still incredibly unlikely.

[Demon6324236]

I never said I would post a video, and there's no need to, math will tell you all you need to know.

The truth is if you can clear floors with an average time of 2 minutes, this gives you a 15 floor per run average, you only need to average 6.6 floors per jump to reach 100 and win. Any half decent group will easily meet that standard. Considering the average is 5.5, this is actually just a bit above average, but it will really only happen maybe 5-10% of the time. But seriously, even at 5-10% win rate, or you can still get this gear. That's still at least 1 piece of very good gear every other week, that only requires 30~ min of effort every day.

If you can push your average floors from 15 to 16-17, which is just under 2 min per floor average, which is amazingly easy to do, you will get that one piece of gear every week. By FFXI standards, that's absolutely amazing, and you should all be ashamed of yourselves for not trying to get it.

And seriously, people are still complaining about windower? Didn't SE just come out and say they were redesigning and completely overhauling the entire PC user interface for the game and letting people basically make windower plug ins that will function inside the actual game without windower?

I wouldn't know, I never saw it, but if so thats cool, so long as they don't screw it up it might be the 1st thing SE has done smart since making Abyssea have Effort=Reward ^_^

[Mahoro]

I know all the idiots from BG (like you) that comes HERE

Give it up. You have as much admitted on two separate occasions that you read BG for information, so you gain no cool points for comments like these.

[MarkovChain]

They are idiots because they come here explaining us that they got their gear cheatless. At least Gokku admitted otherwise but he still trolled a good 2 pages arguing against anyone pointing out the cheaters. If you cheat I don't care, you cannot remove cheats from the game. In Nyzul it's different than cheating for say, macroing faster, because this time you have no other alternative than doing it. I mean, windower macro are barely a cheat because you can do 2 macro about as efficiently, it's just slightly more annoying, but this time it's hit or miss. It proves that the event is very badly designed.

[user201108211515]

again.. the game is not broken just cauz you say it is. Keep lien to your self about the situation I dont really care. It wont change the fact that you cheat to win. No ammount of essays full of excuses you write will change the fact that you cheat at an easy game. You have no real reasons to cheat other then you lack the skill to play the game by the rules. Pushing buttons is hard. Pushing 1 button is easy mode.

[Mahoro]

They are idiots because they come here explaining us that they got their gear cheatless. At least Gokku admitted otherwise but he still trolled a good 2 pages arguing against anyone pointing out the cheaters. If you cheat I don't care, you cannot remove cheats from the game. In Nyzul it's different than cheating for say, macroing faster, because this time you have no other alternative than doing it. I mean, windower macro are barely a cheat because you can do 2 macro about as efficiently, it's just slightly more annoying, but this time it's hit or miss. It proves that the event is very badly designed.

I admit the event is badly designed, although I see the original intent. Instead of 1-5% gear drop rates, they designed an event where you only have a 1-5% of actually reaching the end floor, but in which the gear "drops" 100% of the time. Unfortunately, the execution is horrible because there are holdovers from Nyzul 1.0 that are archaically designed, such as lamp floors. Then you have mobs that have Terror/Stun moves with long duration, which are incredibly frustrating in a 30-minute event.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Not to mention lobby time counts against you, while it doesn't in legion.

[MarkovChain]

They designed it approximately when it was out on the test server, but since the test server is useless for testing battle content, noone guessed so. They were aware of it so they released it and waited to see how many people were succesful before an ajustement. Now the last dev post seems to imply that they are satisfied with the amount of people getting gear. I bet they are even considering too many people are getting the gear. That's what I'll reproach them ; not considering an event from the content point of view but the balance point of view . If you only consider the amount of people actually reaching F100, then it means you are satified with it, in other world you are ok with cheating. I don't think you constumer are going to forgive you this one.

[Concerned4FFxi]

lol... seriously?

For my comments we'll be using some math about nyzul and your probability to reach floor 100 based on how many floors your group can clear on average that can be found right here:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/109245-Neo-Nyzul-Isle-%28CAUTION-GMs-have-been-banning-for-flee-tools%29?p=5097920&viewfull=1#post5097920

The basic thing to know is that if you can clear 16 floors, you will reach floor 100 13% of the time. 17 floors gets you there 30% of the time. If you're not horrible at this game, 16-17 floor average is pretty easy to accomplish, which means you'll be getting at least 1 win a week. How long has nyzul been out now? 4 months? whats that like 17 weeks? Looks to me like if you were using all your tags on nyzul with a competent group you'd already be 15/15.

Also: If you can clear 18 floors, you'll be on 100 52% of the time, 19 floors pushes it to 72%. Based on how good your group is at Nyzul directly impacts your ability to reach 100. Based on this you can see that very good groups will be able to finish much faster than average groups. Saying anyone with the gear is obviously a cheater just shows how misinformed about the event you are, and maybe even how bad at FFXI you are. Have you even gotten your friends together and done a few runs and seen what your average floor clears will amount to?

EDIT: Is there any particular reason you make 4 posts instead of multi quoting or editing your post to include replies to different things? Are you trying to up your post count a lot or what?

EDIT #2: @peechan
Just came across this video of some gimp JPs beating neo nyzul in 20 minutes without cheating!
http://nicoviewer.net/sm17623114

I like your math but it doesnt support the facts, and the facts are NIUR is much more random. On floors were its lamp code, or kill every monster, or its a boss with healing magic restricted, etc, bad luck puts a serious negative impact into the equation. Your math doesnt account for this. The math you describe is that of a vacuum, now I did say not evberyone 15/15 cheated, I just said alot of people 5/5+ cheated. And the truth is in the pudding, I'm sure you've read the ffxi forums and seen many a player that has admitted to having cleared 100 by cheating in some form or another, and these players are top tier players, so you do the math and tell me then what I'm supposed to think. Like I said, and I'm not trying to be persoanal, but alot of people cheated to get their 100 gear, and your math is way off because it only accounts for a perfect environment, and NIUR is anything but.

[saevel]

The basic thing to know is that if you can clear 16 floors, you will reach floor 100 13% of the time. 17 floors gets you there 30% of the time. If you're not horrible at this game, 16-17 floor average is pretty easy to accomplish, which means you'll be getting at least 1 win a week. How long has nyzul been out now? 4 months? whats that like 17 weeks? Looks to me like if you were using all your tags on nyzul with a competent group you'd already be 15/15.

He's factoring in the TPA / hacks when he says ". If you're not horrible at this game, 16-17 floor average is pretty easy to accomplish". 16 floors is 112 seconds per floor, not accounting for lobby time nor for the floor 100 boss battle. 17 floors is 105 seconds average, 18 floors is 99s. What dramatically cuts down on the floor clear time is knowing the exact order of the lamps, knowing which enemy is the enemy leader or specific enemy, and knowing all this from the floor entry point. Being able to see exactly where that enemy leader / specific enemy is or where the lamps are from the very beginning is what allows you to clear so many floors so fast. It removes the random floor layout and the wasted time spent searching in far away corners. Its exactly how those people got so many Nyzule Isle 100 items. Double embrava, double body boosts and movement *gear* *cough* are all well and good, but none of them provide the advantage that removing the unknown does.

A group of 6 well geared skilled players, all on XBOX's might make it to 100 occasionally, given their lucky enough with floor jumps to only need to clear 13~14 floors, a little over 2min average per floor, which is entirety possible.

This event was designed for players to farm floor 60 and 80 for gear, and to use floor 100 as the carrot to keep you playing. As someone above mentioned, all SE did was move the RNG from the treasure box so the floor advancement. The overall gear acquisition rate is designed to be the same. Only difference is no amount of text modifications will effect what appears in your treasure coffer.

[Kaisha]

I mean, windower macro are barely a cheat because you can do 2 macro about as efficiently, it's just slightly more annoying, but this time it's hit or miss. It proves that the event is very badly designed.
The built-in macros are slow to execute and you can't just mash your gear-swaps since you'd cancel one macro half-way through its swaps as you press the next. So I'd argue even windower macros are a level above what you can do in the game in addition to the lack of 6-line limit.

Becomes extremely noticable when I play my SCH since you have 8 JA macros per Arts to worry about, and hitting all the gear-swap macros to accomodate each one pre and mid-cast without cancelling each other out in the process.

[Nala]

Actually that is not true, at least for the xbox, been ages since i played on ps2, you can execute gearswap macros in rapid succession, the only time you have to worry about canceling is if you tie a JA into the gear swap macro if that is what you are referring to then never mind.

In that case yeah windower allows you to quickly change gear and still execute ja's without interruption however for the really complex if then type stuff only spell cast really covers that aspect and is the real advantage windower has over in game macros.

[wish12oz]

I don't think you constumer are going to forgive you this one.

The best part about this thread is that pchan is arguing against cheating and third party tools with a holier than thou attitude. But then if you follow the link in his sig about pDIF, you can see he gathered a lot of data for the things he said there, using a third party tool called a parser, which requires using windower to use. Hypocrite much?


I like your math but it doesnt support the facts, and the facts are NIUR is much more random.

That's right, its really random, but the average will be what the math says. Stop argueing against the idea of averages, you're just making yourself look foolish.


He's factoring in the TPA / hacks when he says ". If you're not horrible at this game, 16-17 floor average is pretty easy to accomplish".

Actually I'm not, hackers can do 25+ floors easy, and basically have a 100% win rate. 16-17 is where decent not hacking groups fall. Learn to read the things I say before you comment on them.


16 floors is 112 seconds per floor, not accounting for lobby time nor for the floor 100 boss battle. 17 floors is 105 seconds average, 18 floors is 99s.

A minute and a half is a LONG TIME. It's very easy to have an average floor clear time in this range.


What dramatically cuts down on the floor clear time is knowing the exact order of the lamps,

Order floors don't actually happen all that often, for me it was 1 order floor every other run. Stop complaining about them like they happen 3-4 times every run and instantly make you lose. Use skype/vent/whatever and you'll be fine.


knowing which enemy is the enemy leader or specific enemy, and knowing all this from the floor entry point. Being able to see exactly where that enemy leader / specific enemy is or where the lamps are from the very beginning is what allows you to clear so many floors so fast. It removes the random floor layout and the wasted time spent searching in far away corners.

Ap radar is cheating and I agree with you, but its not required to reach the 16-17 floor average.



Its exactly how those people got so many Nyzule Isle 100 items. Double embrava, double body boosts and movement *gear* *cough* are all well and good, but none of them provide the advantage that removing the unknown does.

You're retarded if you think everyone with nyzul f100 gear cheats. Did you not see the video I posted of the JP who doesnt cheat and is terrible and has a bunch of it and wins nyzul in under 20 min?


A group of 6 well geared skilled players, all on XBOX's might make it to 100 occasionally,

Which is the way SE designed it to be, occasionally, time sinks, stuff to keep doing, etc. Cheats give you a 100% win rate, they're not required to win.


given their lucky enough with floor jumps to only need to clear 13~14 floors, a little over 2min average per floor, which is entirety possible.

Do you even know what an average is? 13-14 floors per run is where full perle DDs get. You should work on your other gear, your groups gear, and your ability to work together if you can only get 13 floors.


This event was designed for players to farm floor 60 and 80 for gear, and to use floor 100 as the carrot to keep you playing.

It was designed so competent players who are good at FFXI could get 100 gear, and scrubs would be locked out of it. Unfortunatly SE is bad at implementing this sort of content as cheaters always have a huge advantage. It's no different than kings before Abyssea.

[Monchat]

The best part about this thread is that pchan is arguing against cheating and third party tools with a holier than thou attitude. But then if you follow the link in his sig about pDIF, you can see he gathered a lot of data for the things he said there, using a third party tool called a parser, which requires using windower to use. Hypocrite much?
.

the best part about your posts is that you cant read?

[Gokku]

wish just gonna state 25 floors is pretty damn hard to pull even with cheats, most close wins we have are either in the 20-22 range or 19-20 with shit floors. but even then there are some run killer floors like, mamool boss with 4 2handed DDs and WS's locked on the floor as he spams status fuckga = run killer , or more 1 mindpurge soulfucker floor , or just shitty shitty gangbang floors.

shit happens even the best groups are at about 70ish% clear rate total.

the 2nd biggest issue with NI2.0 is it has almost 0 replay value, if they added linen pouches as a turn in for plat's my static would be kicking down doors to get people to log in for runs, but as it stands now we got our gear got our ls members some gear and havent gone back.

[Camiie]

Which is the way SE designed it to be, occasionally, time sinks, stuff to keep doing, etc.

Working as intended doesn't make it right. I don't know about anyone else, but it's not only the implementation I have issues with. It's the intentions.


It was designed so competent players who are good at FFXI could get 100 gear, and scrubs would be locked out of it.

It seems like one has to be a bit more than simply competent to clear this content. Really what is the measuring stick to get to floor 100 on as consistent a basis as possible without cheats? I know you say "clear floors in X seconds and jump up Y floors at a time." Where's the gear threshold? What do I NEED to be ready? Where does Neo-Nyzul 100 stand in the FFXI progression? Does it come after Abyssea? VW? Legion? What level R/M/E do I need if any? Hopefully you'll offer more than "just don't suck." Sadly too many people respond that way and it makes it harder for the rest of us to step up to where we want to be.


Unfortunately SE is bad at implementing this sort of content as cheaters always have a huge advantage. It's no different than kings before Abyssea.

Truer words were never spoken.

[Chimerawizard]

It seems like one has to be a bit more than simply competent to clear this content. Really what is the measuring stick to get to floor 100 on as consistent a basis as possible without cheats? I know you say "clear floors in X seconds and jump up Y floors at a time." Where's the gear threshold? What do I NEED to be ready? Where does Neo-Nyzul 100 stand in the FFXI progression? Does it come after Abyssea? VW? Legion? What level R/M/E do I need if any? Hopefully you'll offer more than "just don't suck." Sadly too many people respond that way and it makes it harder for the rest of us to step up to where we want to be.


I don't think it was ever meant to be cleared on a consistent basis, unless by consistant you mean 1-3x a week IE they want you to NOT get to floor 100 every time or even 1/2 the time for that matter. Why do you think they added the KI you get to exchange for a piece of gear EVERY time you actually clear f100?

As for weapons, friends who do it have (relic99/empy90-99)DDx4, 2sch's. they had a good win rate though and have gotten all f100 items now.
progression: after abyssea & VW, no one has done enough Legion to get any killer augment hexed gear so definately not after that.

[saevel]

It seems like one has to be a bit more than simply competent to clear this content. Really what is the measuring stick to get to floor 100 on as consistent a basis as possible without cheats?

The "measuring stick" is you read BG web forums and follow their guides on how to modify your client. The content is designed to not be cleared except in exceeding rate circumstances (lucky jumps and floors). BGers have discovered a way around SE's RNG based difficulty, they maximize their floor count by minimizing the time per floor. They do that by removing the unknown element so that you can immediately clear the floor the moment you enter it rather then running around looking for lamps / that single ITG monster in the pack with the same name as the rest.

This content is not gear biased, you can have the absolute best gear and be amazingly *skilled* *cough* yet be on 360's and not have a snowballs chance in hell of seeing floor 100. Not to say it's impossible, but you'll fail 8~10 times for every time you succeed. Yet a group of weenies who've modified their client can get a 25~30% clear rate. If their experienced in nyzule runs then they can get a 50% clear rate. If their experienced and use TPAs they can get a 80%+ clear rate.

[wish12oz]

wish just gonna state 25 floors is pretty damn hard to pull.

My record is 28 before winning. w



It seems like one has to be a bit more than simply competent to clear this content. Really what is the measuring stick to get to floor 100 on as consistent a basis as possible without cheats?

My group was 2x SCH 2x WAR and whoever in my LS/friends list wanted to come fill in the last 2 slots. We had COR, SAM, BLU, MNK, THF, DNC lots of random different stuff in the last spots.
SCHs had 480~ enhancing skill (this is actually gimp, 500 is what you should have, lol)
WARs had this: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/217122 first 2 runs.
WS sets starting run 2, Avant legs+1 though: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/217120 and slightly different stuff for fell cleave.
my TP set starting run 3: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/254511
other WAR starting run 3: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/255456 cause Valk body is hard to get, but she has it now, so its all good.
Other people didn't matter cause we didn't really need them honestly.

EDIT: Oh, my Ukon was 99, other WARs was 90.



This content is not gear biased, you can have the absolute best gear and be amazingly *skilled* *cough* yet be on 360's and not have a snowballs chance in hell of seeing floor 100. Not to say it's impossible, but you'll fail 8~10 times for every time you succeed.

Failing 8-10 times for every time you succeed is still fine, thats a better 'gearing up' rate than if you did old kings+salvage+einherjar every chance you could with an LS at 75. At this point, admitting you could win 10% of time, and continuing to complain is counter productive for you. You could be 15/15 by the time it gets changed, even if SE announced they were going to change it today.

And yes, it's gear based. Better gear = better kill speed = higher average floor jump per run. Even voice chat increases floor jumps by at least 1. Everything you can do to increase the average amount of floors you can clear per run with this event will help tremendously. Skipping any 1 thing will hurt you as a group. For instance, you should make sure everyone has run speed shoes, and knows how to put them on/take them off to remove engaging/disengaging animation, as that is also a huge time saver, and this is just 1 example outside the norm of 'hitting harder' where having good gear really helps.


maximize floor count by minimizing the time per floor.


This is how you win.
Whatever means you deem acceptable to accomplish this goal is on you, I dont really care either way. I'm just pointing out its entirely possible to do it without any cheats, I even did it with bad jobs a few times. Cheating just makes you finish faster at the risk of your account. Without cheating the best groups will still have a 30-50% win rate, and decent groups will have a 10-30% win rate. If your group can't hack it, read the BG thread, and ask for advise, it's really not hard once you have decent gear and learn a lot of the tricks for reducing time on floors, like leaving a SCH at the rune, using fell cleave, double body boost+regen+phalanx so no one needs healing, run fast shoes and the ability to macro them on/off to remove engage/disengage animation, setting specific lamp orders before entering, using voice chat programs, using good attack food, etc. Everything you can do to decrease your time spent on floors is useful, even if its only 1 second.

[MarkovChain]

a parser, which requires using windower to use. Hypocrite much?

No you can even run a parser on the Test server, lol...

[wish12oz]

No you can even run a parser on the Test server, lol...

So you're admitting to using a third party program now? Thats not much of a denial on your part.

[MarkovChain]

Yeah I admit watching youtube while playing FFXI, is that a problem ? Go back to clearing 28 floor without cheat moron. Are the devs that naive ?

[wish12oz]

Yeah I admit watching youtube while playing FFXI, is that a problem ? Go back to clearing 28 floor without cheat moron. Are the devs that naive ?

You also admitted to using a parser, which is a third party program and against the TOS as much as everything you're advocating so strongly against, take your double standard and get lost moron.

[Registeel]

Yeah I admit watching youtube while playing FFXI, is that a problem ? Go back to clearing 28 floor without cheat moron. Are the devs that naive ?
I wouldn't be so hasty as to call someone who's cleared this content a moron.

Sadly my friend and I don't really have anyone to do Nyzul Uncharted with at the current time. My friend might have to level SCH, then we'll have to hope good people are looking for a BLU + SCH, since I don't have high hopes for a good turnout via Jeuno shouts.

[Gokku]

actually jeuno shouts will get you a ton of tells its a matter of shifting though the trash players finding the good ones setting up times and everyone showing , best bet get 3 schs and 8 DD total take them first come first serve for whos on time with the date set post shouting.

[Afania]

Honestly though, those who complained about Neo Nyzul, have you ever even try to do it a few times with proper setup/strat and see how many floor you can clear? By proper setup I mean using jobs like DRKx4 SCH x2, powder boot rotate, double body boost/sprinter, and no death nor d/c in entire run etc. Or you just randomly come here and complained because it seems impossible? With proper setup/gear/skill and aggressive use with powder boots, it is still possible to clear 16 floor with 0 3rd pt tool, just that majority of player would rather use it since 80% of player base already been using windower, so turning on fillmode is just something ppl can do easily without crossing another line.

And those talks about cheats is pretty hilarious, ppl been *cheating* in FFXI all the time, ppl *cheat* in VW, *cheat* in dyna, *cheat* in abby, I'm not even talking about old HNM camping/botting. Parser, extended macro, spell cast, unless you only pt with maybe 3 ppl in this game, it's near impossible to avoid pt with someone who *cheats* in every single event including easiest abby. Those who claim they don't cheat and don't use 3rd pt tool, can you also claim that you never pt with another player that uses windower?

So why suddenly double standard? Fillmode is just same thing as extended macro and parser, nothing more, nothing less. However compare with other events from 75 to nowadays(which ppl still use cheat in), Nyzul uncharted certainly has best reward/effort ratio, look at how many ppl 15/15 already, no other event in this game gives gear this fast except maybe Abby, which ppl still cheat with extended macro regardless.

[scaevola]

Even if you're going suggest there's no difference between extended macros/spellcast, which don't actually let you do anything you couldn't already, and fillmode/dat-swapping, which very much do*, merely acknowledging that stuff like fillmode and dat-swapping is straight-up cheating doesn't mean the people saying so in this thread begrudge the people using them; it's just setting up the premise of the main point of all these Nyzul threads: if people can't or won't clear Nyzul without cheating, there is something wrong with Nyzul.


*and there may indeed not be a difference; certainly I'm not interested in arguing about it

[Vortex]

Honestly though, those who complained about Neo Nyzul, have you ever even try to do it a few times with proper setup/strat and see how many floor you can clear? By proper setup I mean using jobs like DRKx4 SCH x2, powder boot rotate, double body boost/sprinter, and no death nor d/c in entire run etc. Or you just randomly come here and complained because it seems impossible? With proper setup/gear/skill and aggressive use with powder boots, it is still possible to clear 16 floor with 0 3rd pt tool, just that majority of player would rather use it since 80% of player base already been using windower, so turning on fillmode is just something ppl can do easily without crossing another line.

And those talks about cheats is pretty hilarious, ppl been *cheating* in FFXI all the time, ppl *cheat* in VW, *cheat* in dyna, *cheat* in abby, I'm not even talking about old HNM camping/botting. Parser, extended macro, spell cast, unless you only pt with maybe 3 ppl in this game, it's near impossible to avoid pt with someone who *cheats* in every single event including easiest abby. Those who claim they don't cheat and don't use 3rd pt tool, can you also claim that you never pt with another player that uses windower?

So why suddenly double standard? Fillmode is just same thing as extended macro and parser, nothing more, nothing less. However compare with other events from 75 to nowadays(which ppl still use cheat in), Nyzul uncharted certainly has best reward/effort ratio, look at how many ppl 15/15 already, no other event in this game gives gear this fast except maybe Abby, which ppl still cheat with extended macro regardless.

As it's been stated, it requires alot of luck, but you also need skill at some point, peopel having bad luck are getting mad. frusration is not uncommon.

[saevel]

As it's been stated, it requires alot of luck, but you also need skill at some point, peopel having bad luck are getting mad. frusration is not uncommon.

*Luck* is an understatement. It's all time dependent, you get in order poles and not only must you determine how many poles there are but then sift through multiple attempts to find the correct sequence. You get specified enemy, you must then run around /checking the mobs to find the ~1~ that is ITG. Enemy leader isn't that hard but you still must run around looking for them. All at once poles you must run around look for, and kill all requires you to find every mob on the floor. When your talking 60~90s or less to clear each floor (you waste some time in lobby and you must still kill the boss and cast lots) all that running around adds up quick.

Notice a repeating pattern, lots of running around looking for stuff. The level layouts tend to be large and maze like, without any form of in-game map to guide you. You waste tons of time just running around the mazes, much less going all the way to that back corner that requires you to go three rooms over just to reach. Those "cheats" people keep mentioning remove large amounts of that wasted time, no need to look for anything, just do a quick 360 and note everything's location. You can tell which specified enemy is it, where the enemy leader is, where all the mobs are, and where all the poles are and if their order / same time or check point. You can also immediately discern the proper order and have someone at each pole without needing to waste time running around.

Even with all that, an experienced skilled group (with no other TPA) will have a 50/50 win / loss rate due to random BS. People without those are looking at a 5~10% clear rate, or about one in 10~12. At that point in time it might be faster to just farm floor 80's, which is how the event was designed anyway.

[Afania]

Even if you're going suggest there's no difference between extended macros/spellcast, which don't actually let you do anything you couldn't already, and fillmode/dat-swapping, which very much do*, merely acknowledging that stuff like fillmode and dat-swapping is straight-up cheating doesn't mean the people saying so in this thread begrudge the people using them; it's just setting up the premise of the main point of all these Nyzul threads: if people can't or won't clear Nyzul without cheating, there is something wrong with Nyzul.



A lot of reason why there aren't many pt reported to clear with completely legit pt is because majority of player base already been using windower, so fillmode on is really just one key away. It's actually harder to find 6 completely legit player than a few windower user pt nowadays. It's not because it's not possible to clear without windower, but because many ppl would rather go for the easy route with higher success rate when majority of players uses windower. Say if a completely legit pt has 10% win rate on F100, this win rate may be what's intended and nothing wrong with it....1 month for 1 god tier armor, which is just right for a MMORPG. Using cheats just makes it faster.

Also a completely legit pt can still clear F80 easily, after 25 clear times you can get F100 armor too.

Honestly though, completely legit pt still has a chance to get F100 gear, just because 3rd pt tool user get it faster, doesn't mean there is something wrong. The difficulty of Nyzul V2 is just fine, it's already one of the fastest gear capping event in FFXI's history. Or you won't be happy until all gears are handed to you in your dbox in 5 days?

Also I can't do what extended macro/spellcast user do without windower(since I don't use windower). Extended macro user swap gear with 1 button, I can't unless I click 2~3 times. Spellcast user doesn't shoot their QD bullet, I do if I forget to click ammo macro.

[saevel]

A lot of reason why there aren't many pt reported to clear with completely legit pt is because majority of player base already been using windower, so fillmode on is really just one key away. It's actually harder to find 6 completely legit player than a few windower user pt nowadays. It's not because it's not possible to clear without windower, but because many ppl would rather go for the easy route with higher success rate when majority of players uses windower. Say if a completely legit pt has 10% win rate on F100, this win rate may be what's intended and nothing wrong with it....1 month for 1 god tier armor, which is just right for a MMORPG. Using cheats just makes it faster.

Also a completely legit pt can still clear F80 easily, after 25 clear times you can get F100 armor too.

Honestly though, completely legit pt still has a chance to get F100 gear, just because 3rd pt tool user get it faster, doesn't mean there is something wrong. The difficulty of Nyzul V2 is just fine, it's already one of the fastest gear capping event in FFXI's history. Or you won't be happy until all gears are handed to you in your dbox in 5 days?

Also I can't do what extended macro/spellcast user do without windower(since I don't use windower). Extended macro user swap gear with 1 button, I can't unless I click 2~3 times. Spellcast user doesn't shoot their QD bullet, I do if I forget to click ammo macro.

Umm no, just no.

Of the "windower" users I know of, only about a dozen actually knew what "fillmode" even was, most are clueless. Most of them don't even know how spellcast works nor how to write XML, extended macros seem to be a pretty universal thing, still many screw that up too.

The reason so few wins happen without TPA / hacks is the content was designed to not be won. You are supposed to farm floor 60/80 for gear, all the while whispering about how great it would be to get floor 100 and standing in awe at those players who had the random luck to get floor 100 once out of ten tries. Of course players being players, we'll ALWAYS find the fastest way to maximize loot acquisition. Why run the risk of wasting 10~12 runs, or about 2~3 months to get 1 piece, when with little effort you can guarantee at least one piece per month (1/4 for a weekly static) and with a little more effort you can guarantee one piece per week if not more.

There is no magic strategy, no super secret ninja skills that can only be learned in the hollow halls accessed to only the few who know the secret handshake. It's plain RNG based, mind as well have a goblin outside that you can talk to once per day and rolls a dice. On a 1~19 you get nothing, on a natural 20 you get a piece of Nyzule 100 gear. Of course persistent players can't modify the goblins roll, they can modify the client.

[Ophannus]

Meh I did Nyzul the other day with MNK MNK WAR WAR SCH SCH, didn't win but got to floor 90-98ish three times(but we were slow on lamp floors) probably could have gotten to 100 if we invested in sprinter drinksx2 and powder boots.

[Monchat]

Be careful guys only positive feedback, negative feedback is not accepted. Oh and the devs are always right, and if they ever touch nyzul they explicitely said they'd nerf the gear.

[FrankReynolds]

Be careful guys only positive feedback, negative feedback is not accepted. Oh and the devs are always right, and if they ever touch nyzul they explicitely said they'd nerf the gear.

<devs> After careful review (1 year of complaints) we have decided to lower the difficulty of Neo-Nyzul Isle. However, in the interest of Barance... we have decided to make the gear suck. We think that doing this will maintain the current lack of reward to effort ratio nicely. Your feedback is greatly appreciated on this matter as it gives us something to laugh at.

[Camate]

I’d like to put the two different Nyzul challenges into perspective a bit.

The original Nyzul was a lot easier to clear, but the drop rates were not very high. On top of the drop rate, you would only get one piece of equipment as well, which could possibly be something different than what you were after.

The new Nyzul might be a bit more difficult to reach floor 100, but if you are able to successfully get there and defeat the boss, each party member has a 100% guaranteed item, and what’s even better is that you can select the item of your choice.

Based on the above, though it might be more challenging to reach the higher floors, when you get there you will definitely be rewarded.

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

[Alhanelem]

The only way to improve lamp floors is to get rid of them. The "lamps in a certain order" is far worse than "all the lamps at once" though. If someone messes it up, you've just wasted a huge amount of time. About the only thing I could imagine is limit the number of lamps, or put all the lamps near eachother in a single room so you can see eachother.

[Fupafighter]

I’d like to put the two different Nyzul challenges into perspective a bit.

The original Nyzul was a lot easier to clear, but the drop rates were not very high. On top of the drop rate, you would only get one piece of equipment as well, which could possibly be something different than what you were after.

The new Nyzul might be a bit more difficult to reach floor 100, but if you are able to successfully get there and defeat the boss, each party member has a 100% guaranteed item, and what’s even better is that you can select the item of your choice.

Based on the above, though it might be more challenging to reach the higher floors, when you get there you will definitely be rewarded.

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.
The current system is perfect. I'm starting to see plenty of people with floor 100 gear. The dedicated are getting their gear. People just feel they should be able to reach floor 100 without having to deal with a silly order game that takes a chunk of time in an event that EVERY second counts. Lamps aren't skill. They're just a blocker. I suggest maybe just lowering the appearance of order lamp floors. That is all. Otherwise, I love the event. People just aren't utilizing the tricks given to us by the game.

[Radec]

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

Show numbers on the lamps - sure it removes the challenge of figuring out the order, but helps you figure out how many to look for on same-time floors, and you still need to leave someone at each lamp to hit them in order. It'd still be a long floor, compared to family, single monster, code lamp, etc - but it's not a run-ender.

[Raksha]

I’d like to put the two different Nyzul challenges into perspective a bit.

The original Nyzul was a lot easier to clear, but the drop rates were not very high. On top of the drop rate, you would only get one piece of equipment as well, which could possibly be something different than what you were after.

The new Nyzul might be a bit more difficult to reach floor 100, but if you are able to successfully get there and defeat the boss, each party member has a 100% guaranteed item, and what’s even better is that you can select the item of your choice.

Based on the above, though it might be more challenging to reach the higher floors, when you get there you will definitely be rewarded.

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.


Suggestion: Remove all lamp floors. (except code floors, they tend to be very fast)

[detlef]

I would suggest to remove all the unnecessary delays. This includes time spent:

-Loading into starting room.
-Obtaining temp items in starting room.
-Porting up after each completed floor.
-Waiting for lamp delay, either for all lamps to light up or for cooldown after a wrong order/missed "same time" lamp.

[Washburn]

How about start the timer on floor 1, and not the staging room.

As far as lamps, how about limiting the number of lamps to a maximum of 3.

Have the timer freeze on each floor once the objective is completed.

The only other thing i can think of is, introduce the purchase of a revitalizer in the temp chest. That would allow for more diverse groups instead of being tied to 2 scholars and 4 heavy DD's.

[Camiie]

I’d like to put the two different Nyzul challenges into perspective a bit.

The original Nyzul was a lot easier to clear, but the drop rates were not very high. On top of the drop rate, you would only get one piece of equipment as well, which could possibly be something different than what you were after.

It wasn't perfect, but it was a fine system. One of the best pre-Abyssea systems SE had ever developed really. The gear, however was generally lackluster. The rewards were random and the floors were random, and that's about all the layers of random we really needed. It could be frustrating at times, but never discouragingly so. It was never really that big a hardship to try again if you didn't get your drop.


The new Nyzul might be a bit more difficult to reach floor 100, but if you are able to successfully get there and defeat the boss, each party member has a 100% guaranteed item, and what’s even better is that you can select the item of your choice.

A bit? Really? If it were only a bit, I doubt you'd see any complaints and you'd have constant lines of people at the entrance. Using the term "a bit" just shows how horribly out of touch and inattentive the devs are. They're being blinded by their own vision so to speak.


Based on the above, though it might be more challenging to reach the higher floors, when you get there you will definitely be rewarded.

But it's not when it's IF. I realize it's always technically an IF with every form of battle content, but this is a really really big IF that's far too big for most of us to bear and keep our sanity intact. Yeah you keep your uber gear rare, but you also scare a lot of players away from the event entirely. Is an event really a success in an MMO if hardly anyone spends time on it?

I think the real problem goes deeper than the structure of Neo-Nyzul. I would be absolutely fine if it were essentially off-limits to me, if I felt as though there were current content that was intended for me. Post-Abyssea you guys are just striking out left and right with most of the playerbase. You only seem to be appealing to a rather limited segment of the population. You either don't see that this is what's happening, or you're fine with whatever happens as long as the dev's vision of the game is maintained. It's obviously more important for the devs themselves and the few players who completely appreciate their vision to be happy than the rest of us who want something "a bit" different from that.

[Kaisha]

Show numbers on the lamps - sure it removes the challenge of figuring out the order, but helps you figure out how many to look for on same-time floors, and you still need to leave someone at each lamp to hit them in order. It'd still be a long floor, compared to family, single monster, code lamp, etc - but it's not a run-ender.
This. Lamp floors are the most stressful since they're a guaranteed time waster (aside from Code), which are can't afford at all in Nyzul2.0. Every other type of floor takes at most 1-2 minutes depending on your setup, your kill speed, and hopefully isn't one of those giant empty floors where you spend a minute alone searching for that one final monster to clear the objective.

Would be more fun to search out a numbered order than to have people sit still for 3-4 minutes figuring out the order and waiting on the long cooldown between tries.

[Behemothx]

Get rid of lamp lighting order altogether, I don't think anyone will miss them.

[saevel]

Meh I did Nyzul the other day with MNK MNK WAR WAR SCH SCH, didn't win but got to floor 90-98ish three times(but we were slow on lamp floors) probably could have gotten to 100 if we invested in sprinter drinksx2 and powder boots.

You wouldn't of had time to kill the boss and lot / pass the gear.

This is an ever where seconds count and why the random BS that can happen on floors screws you.

[Insaniac]

Remove lamp order floors or label the lamps 1 through 5. Order floors destroy any chance a group has of getting 100 unless they guess right on the 1st or 2nd try and the chance of that on a 5 lamp floor is extremely low and it seems like the chance of hitting order floors is pretty high.

P.S. I made a list of pretty universally supported ideas for NI2 HERE (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/22545-Nyzul-Isle-Revamp-Praise-and-Lamentation) that never got any comrep attention.

[saevel]

This. Lamp floors are the most stressful since they're a guaranteed time waster (aside from Code), which are can't afford at all in Nyzul2.0. Every other type of floor takes at most 1-2 minutes depending on your setup, your kill speed, and hopefully isn't one of those giant empty floors where you spend a minute alone searching for that one final monster to clear the objective.

Would be more fun to search out a numbered order than to have people sit still for 3-4 minutes figuring out the order and waiting on the long cooldown between tries.

2min is too long for any floor. Assuming 5 min total for final boss / lot / pass and lobby entry, that leaves you 25m to do the actual run. For needing 17 floors you need to clear each one is 88s or less.

The two biggest time wasters are lamps and kill all. Floors tend to have NMs on them, and kill all means you gotta deal with this NMs, some of them have extremely annoying abilities or take long times to kill (Flan / Quirin). That is time that you've effectively flushed down the toilet. Its all the running around that wastes time.

[Kaisha]

I said at most. You aren't guaranteed to always have 1min floors, but you're still allowed to have a couple 2min here and there in the offchance you get a good floor jump, or you just get a floor that's time consuming, like a kill-all on a maze floor, or a family floor with Soulflayers.

[Chamaan]

Make all the neo lamp floors register or remove them, like people are saying. Also might I suggest letting the mission leader (guy who issues order to begin mission at start) select via a popup prompt to move up floors? It's a waste of time and resources to either leave someone at a lamp or have them leave the battle early to hoof it back to the runic lamp just to make the party jump floors.

[Renromix]

some floors are really huge

[saevel]

I said at most. You aren't guaranteed to always have 1min floors, but you're still allowed to have a couple 2min here and there in the offchance you get a good floor jump, or you just get a floor that's time consuming, like a kill-all on a maze floor, or a family floor with Soulflayers.

Every 2min floor is a 30s floor you need to have. The odds are in favor of longer floors not shorter. There are too many ways the RNG can screw you over. Kill all on a floor full of flans and puddings, guaranteed game finisher.

[FrankReynolds]

I’d like to put the two different Nyzul challenges into perspective a bit.

The original Nyzul was a lot easier to clear, but the drop rates were not very high. On top of the drop rate, you would only get one piece of equipment as well, which could possibly be something different than what you were after.

The new Nyzul might be a bit more difficult to reach floor 100, but if you are able to successfully get there and defeat the boss, each party member has a 100% guaranteed item, and what’s even better is that you can select the item of your choice.

Based on the above, though it might be more challenging to reach the higher floors, when you get there you will definitely be rewarded.

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

So basically: "the old event was easy enough, but the gear / drops sucked. So we decided that this time around, the event part would suck, but the drops / gear would be good. We can't ever make an event that is just all around good because we don't want to raise the bar. There has to be some "suck" in there someplace. Enjoy!"

As far as lamps go... these would be great in an event that wasn't timed. Best recommendation I can come up with is to either remove them, or limit it to 1 instance of lamps per run.

[Gokku]

just so people know even if you time out on floor 100 as long as you KILL the boss you get the KI for your gear of choice , ive had a few runs were we killed the boss and had under 3 secs to lot / pass / exit and it just didnt happen in time.

also remove lamp floors
remove lobby time
and add a stopper to the timer upon floor objective completion

[Monchat]

make the intermediate bosses useful:

killng floor 20 boss X times removes "code lamp"
killing floor 40 boss X times removes "activate together"
killing floor 60 boss X times removes order
killing 80 boss floor X times gives ???floor +1 (so 3~10).
killing floor 100 once already gives something.

Or something along those lines. I think that would add a "sense of progression" to the event...

Or just get rid of the lamp fllor, they are the very reason evryone that has floor 100 win is cheating.

[wish12oz]

You wouldn't of had time to kill the boss and lot / pass the gear.

This is an ever where seconds count and why the random BS that can happen on floors screws you.

Take your pants off your head and read what I type, and try to understand it. When you kill the floor 100 boss in neo nyzul, immediately upon it's death everyone in the party gets a key item. You then exchange that key item to the NPC next to Nyzul mission giving NPC in whitegate for any piece of floor 100 gear you want. Lotting and passing dont actually matter, time remaining after you win isn't important, all that matters is getting the kill.


EDIT:
@Camate
Start the timer when people go to floor 1. It's weird that time starts when you enter, and not when you move to floor 1, that's the only change I would make. If you want to make the event slightly easier, I suggest not starting on floor 1, but having the first jump be a ??? jump. Or just add that and let the timer start when you zone in, either way would accomplish about the same thing, +1-2 minutes.

[Killvearn]

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

I think the delay after clearing the lamps floors is one big problem, they take to much time to activate the rune of transfer. I don't know if this is possibile, but if you can't shorten that delay, could you make at least an option for automatic "travel to the next floor" or "travel to ??? floor"? I mean setting preferences with the npc like for temporary items. Maybe that could be a good idea even for all floors, if you set floor 100 as goal you probably are going to select "travel to ??? floor" anyway.

[Economizer]

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

Lamps are the primary reason I avoid Nyzul. No other part of content has gotten such a constant stream of misery and dread, and even the shear amount of ill will to whomever had the initial thought that led to them.

If lamps must stay, then they should only be "Activate all lamps at the same time" or "Each party member activates the same lamp." and the floor should indicate which.

Content doesn't have to be easy, but it has to be fun. As I've heard from researchers with extensive experience in the ruins, for years they couldn't find the power source of the lamps until one day a breakthrough came through that showed in no uncertain terms that lamps are powered by sucking out the hopes and dreams of those who try to light them.

[Mittenz]

The only thing I would like to see changed is the 15s lockout on lamps if you make a mistake and the 10s it takes to register success. The code lamps don't need it none of them should and it would save probably 2-3mins a run. Outside of this the event is fine, most groups once used to it should not be in the lobby more than 20s so I don't see that being a huge time saver. This change would make floor 80 a lot more realistic and floor 100 for the stronger groups a 1 in 100 chance instead of a 1 in 100000 chance.

As for making this an event so easy any group can make it to 100 all the time with little risk I don't hope for that simply because of how SE works. If that happened they would probably take away the ki that lets you choose a piece or remove the Alex from the event or even lower the stats on the gear "for balance".

[Dragoy]

And I disagree with this. SE determines what's allowed and what isn't, but that bears no implication on what's right or wrong (or good or bad).

Agreed; I did word it badly. They can not say what is right and what is wrong, but I what I meant was simply that as long as this is their game, we should play by their rules. I often put myself into the position of a game maintainer when I think about this kind of stuff, and how I would like people to play my game(s) (I've been a Gamemaster for some small games in the past, so that might be one indication of my nature when it comes to things like this).

There are things that are so obviously 'broken' in this game, that I can not understand why the developers would not want to fix them, and instead, kind of force the players who have no patience to take the law into their own hands, so to speak.


That would imply that rules are perfect, but they very rarely are.

They probably never are, so yeah, I do agree but the wording probably got me thinking what you said in a bit twisted way. I personally just don't think that there can ever be “good kind” of cheating. It is indeed the job for the company to fix stuff that require cheating so that it would simply become unneeded, or obsolete, as you mentioned, too.


I doubt we will ever see SqEX fix the issues that are the main cause for the issues issued here, in a tissue. They could be going somewhere with the User Interface change, but that is yet to be seen...

Blubb.


The words 'force' and 'require' are being used very loosely within this post.

[Godofgods]

Based on the above, though it might be more challenging to reach the higher floors, when you get there you will definitely be rewarded.

I say make it harder. Everyone here complains about things being to easy, or everything being low-manable. Now that they have something harder that takes more ppl, they just sit around complaining about how hard it is.

[FrankReynolds]

I say make it harder. Everyone here complains about things being to easy, or everything being low-manable. Now that they have something harder that takes more ppl, they just sit around complaining about how hard it is.

congratulations! This is the one stupid quote that will get translated for Tanaka & co. back in Japan. For this you win 1,000 rotten squid, a pack of dental floss, a car bed frame with a CB radio and a blanket made of cactus farts.

[Dreamin]

I’d like to put the two different Nyzul challenges into perspective a bit.

The original Nyzul was a lot easier to clear, but the drop rates were not very high. On top of the drop rate, you would only get one piece of equipment as well, which could possibly be something different than what you were after.

The new Nyzul might be a bit more difficult to reach floor 100, but if you are able to successfully get there and defeat the boss, each party member has a 100% guaranteed item, and what’s even better is that you can select the item of your choice.

Based on the above, though it might be more challenging to reach the higher floors, when you get there you will definitely be rewarded.

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

You're absolutely talking nonsense here. The 2 are so much different. One has progression and the other has ZERO progression. Your climb is resetted every single week. That makes the 2 absolutely different and cannot be compared. Let's have a look:

Old ways - you can pretty much FARM every single day after you climb there one time only. And with selectable floors, you can decide which pieces you farm on any given run. Each run is just a quick climb. As bad as drop rate as you and some others might make it out to be, it's nothing like VW or the old HNMs. All bosses are easy to handle even back in the old 75 days. Everyone in a static can get full gears within a very reasonable time frame. I dont think anyone in my static ever had to wait longer than 2 weeks (2x run per week for 8 tags total) for their desired pieces. [Even before the 100th disc that gets erased].

New ways - your chance of ever reaching 100th without using hacks/tools is like your chance of getting Toci off Pil [Side note: I'm >> 0/400+ and has stopped doing Pil altogether. I can get more ROI by selling Voiddusts/Cells then all the Logs/Ores that I just npc/drop]. It's purely on luck. There's absolutely no progression AT ALL what so ever. Yeah, there's a big shiny carrot at the end of this stick but with the crap of pure luck based system. Most people like me and my set who doesnt' want to trash the system by cheats has decided that our time is better served elsewhere then to slave over to 80 only from now until the end of summer just to get some of the pieces that we wanted.


And my big questions to you:

1. Have you been able to get to Floor 100th with any sort of consistency without the use of any 3rd party tools and hacks?

2. What are you and SE going to do about all the people who has openly admitted to be using Tools to win this event? Because SE and your silence to this is maddening. It also becomes a silence admittance of SE's acceptance on the use of these tools.

Frankly, I dont expect an answer from you or SE, but surprise me.

[Arcon]

I personally just don't think that there can ever be “good kind” of cheating.

I never meant to imply it that way. To rephrase it, let's call it the "harmless kind". The kind that doesn't alter the gameplay experience and that doesn't interact with other people in a negative way.

Arguably it could still be good for SE, because I'm sure that without some of these tools, quite a few people would not be playing their game anymore.

[Ophannus]

To clarify the most annoying thing about "Activate in a specific order" lamp floors is that once the lamps have been activated, there's about a 5-10 second window while the order is being checked to see if it's correct. So even through trial and error, if you've done the order correctly, you have to wait an excruciating 10 seconds to get the "Objective Complete" message, whereas on Register Lamp and Same Time Lamp floors, the "Objective Complete" message appears instantaneously.

[Ophannus]

To fix order lamp floors:

Maximum lamps should be lowered from 5 to 3 on these floors. The processing/calculating speed in which the order is verified as correct and an "Objective Complete" message appears needs to be DRASTICALLY reduced.

[Camiie]

I say make it harder. Everyone here complains about things being to easy, or everything being low-manable.

Not everyone. I'm not complaining at all about things being too easy or being done with low numbers. I'd rather have too easy than effectively impossible. If I had to choose, and I shouldn't have to, I'd rather be bored from winning everything than bored from feeling like I can't win at all.

[Mindi]

I’d like to put the two different Nyzul challenges into perspective a bit.

The original Nyzul was a lot easier to clear, but the drop rates were not very high. On top of the drop rate, you would only get one piece of equipment as well, which could possibly be something different than what you were after.

The new Nyzul might be a bit more difficult to reach floor 100, but if you are able to successfully get there and defeat the boss, each party member has a 100% guaranteed item, and what’s even better is that you can select the item of your choice.

Based on the above, though it might be more challenging to reach the higher floors, when you get there you will definitely be rewarded.

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

1.) make 30 min time starts when entering the 1st floor, not the lobby (so ppl can buff and get their temps for the event)
2.) Reduce the Lamp delay... after finishing for example a "same time" there is like 5 sec where nothing happens.. remove that and make it like instant "floor cleared" when all lamps switched on in right way.
3.a) Rename Lamps - So anyone who finds it know whats up without klicking it.. 1 Name fore Code, one fore same time and Order Lamp 1, 2...
3.b) or/and remove order lamps.
4.) Stop timer while having the warp up Animation.. its only like 3-5 seconds, but those x 17 (lets say) thats like 1 floor.

If Devs would make those TECHNICAL changes to NN i think it would be great and make it a better event. Its not like it would change much on the randomness of the event, but it would cut away all those unnecceary wasted times (especially 1, 2 and 4)

[Fupafighter]

Get a proper setup and win 50% of the time, how is that hard?... You all want 100% clears on an event designed not to let you get your wins every day. It would take a max of 15 days to get all 15 pieces. The gear is amazing, it shouldn't be given to us. The event is fine now. You are GUARENTEED a piece when you win 100...

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Get a proper setup and win 50% of the time, how is that hard?... You all want 100% clears on an event designed not to let you get your wins every day. It would take a max of 15 days to get all 15 pieces. The gear is amazing, it shouldn't be given to us. The event is fine now. You are GUARENTEED a piece when you win 100...

You ain't getting 50% without .dat swapping or flee hacking.

[wish12oz]

You ain't getting 50% without .dat swapping or flee hacking.

Amazing groups can get 50% win rate without hacks, stop trolling and speaking nonsense just because you can't do it.

[FrankReynolds]

Amazing groups can get 50% win rate without hacks, stop trolling and speaking nonsense just because you can't do it.

LOL your hilarious.

[Camiie]

Amazing groups can get 50% win rate without hacks, stop trolling and speaking nonsense just because you can't do it.

First of all, prove it. Second of all "amazing" groups are an aberration. Content shouldn't be created with exceptionally good or exceptionally bad players in mind. If Harry Hardcore finds it too easy, Durwood McDerpington III finds it too hard, and the majority of players finds it just right then you have a well balanced event. This isn't it.

You may just have to accept being in the "Too Good For Your Own Good" category. Congratulations for being there. Take some pride in that Just don't act like anything should revolve around your ability, or that someone who isn't as good as you is inferior to you. There's a big difference.

[saevel]

First of all, prove it. Second of all "amazing" groups are an aberration. Content shouldn't be created with exceptionally good or exceptionally bad players in mind. If Harry Hardcore finds it too easy, Durwood McDerpington III finds it too hard, and the majority of players finds it just right then you have a well balanced event. This isn't it.

You may just have to accept being in the "Too Good For Your Own Good" category. Congratulations for being there. Take some pride in that Just don't act like anything should revolve around your ability, or that someone who isn't as good as you is inferior to you. There's a big difference.

No such thing as "amazing groups". Neo Nyzule is just old Nyzule with floors resetting and a random jump, mechanic wise there is nothing new to it. This event was never "hard" just random as hell. What Fupa means is that groups who use the basic hacks can get 50% clear and any additional TPAs further enhance that win rate.

The people getting the gear don't want it changed. As is it's a very exclusive system, only those willing to do "what needs to be done" will be walking around PJ with Neo-Nyzule 100 gear. And with the majority of players not knowing about BG nor the "super secret ninja techniques" enshrined within, this makes that gear exclusive to them. It's what they've been asking for all this time, content just hard enough that only they (with ninja techniques) can beat it, but too hard for all the other scrubs to beat. SE changes it and one of two things happens, either the gear becomes just as hard for those with "ninja techniques" to obtain, or the gear becomes just as easy for those without "ninja techniques" to obtain. The prospect of the first one has them all getting 15/15 ASAP before any changes can be made, the second has people pissed because their gear is no longer exclusive and bragging rights.

[Benihana]

im all for mass bannings on nyzul ala salvage! but u people are delusional if u think u cannot win w.o tools.

PLENTY of people are winning 100 at a decent(25% or higher) without tools.

IM SO SORRY THERES CONTENT THAT REQUIRES A LEVEL OF SKILL AND FOCUS YOU JUST DONT HAVE AND IM SOP SORRY THE REWARDS ARE JUSTIFIED FOR AN INCREDIBLY RANDOM/LUCK BASED/DIFFICULT EVENT AND YOU CANT HAVE EVERYTHING!

Nothing is morelaughable to me than some players who think all gear should be so easy for them to get. Noobs didnt deserve salvage gear, they didnt deserve hnm gear (could use best tool u could buy but a noob group still raged fafnir) and noobs dont deserve neo nyzul gear.

If u cant gear swap, bring appropriate meds, focus hard, have great to amazing gear setups, know your stuff and be on the move,YOU DO NOT DESERVE THIS GEAR. Period, get over it. I'm in the opinion that the only people who truly want neo nyzul gear, work at it and keep at it and have what it takes to attempt and conquerer this event.

Not everyone who wins this is a cheater and not everyone who loses it doesn't have what it takes. It's a luck based event, but you have to be good and keep at it.

Some of you just do not have what it takes, and it's not cause you don't resort to cheating., It's cause you would rather complain and give up, then try. The same people who are complaining, more than likely have never done neo nyzul isle at all, and thats a fact.

In short, theres laays going to be people with better gear than you, deal with it. Thats ffxi. Not everyone has the same stuff. The idea that your entitled to it, is extremely laughable.

[Byrth]

^ This is not what most of the people who post on BG and in this thread sound like ^

Fact of the matter is that "ninja techniques" do dramatically increase your success rate. If you are going with less than a perfect setup, no voice communication, no "ninja techniques", etc. then your success rate is probably so low that you're best off aiming for 80.

[Llana_Virren]

im all for mass bannings on nyzul ala salvage! but u people are delusional if u think u cannot win w.o tools.

PLENTY of people are winning 100 at a decent(25% or higher) without tools.

IM SO SORRY THERES CONTENT THAT REQUIRES A LEVEL OF SKILL AND FOCUS YOU JUST DONT HAVE AND IM SOP SORRY THE REWARDS ARE JUSTIFIED FOR AN INCREDIBLY RANDOM/LUCK BASED/DIFFICULT EVENT AND YOU CANT HAVE EVERYTHING!

Nothing is morelaughable to me than some players who think all gear should be so easy for them to get. Noobs didnt deserve salvage gear, they didnt deserve hnm gear (could use best tool u could buy but a noob group still raged fafnir) and noobs dont deserve neo nyzul gear.

If u cant gear swap, bring appropriate meds, focus hard, have great to amazing gear setups, know your stuff and be on the move,YOU DO NOT DESERVE THIS GEAR. Period, get over it. I'm in the opinion that the only people who truly want neo nyzul gear, work at it and keep at it and have what it takes to attempt and conquerer this event.
Not everyone who wins this is a cheater and not everyone who loses it doesn't have what it takes. It's a luck based event, but you have to be good and keep at it.

Some of you just do not have what it takes, and it's not cause you don't resort to cheating., It's cause you would rather complain and give up, then try. The same people who are complaining, more than likely have never done neo nyzul isle at all, and thats a fact.

In short, theres laays going to be people with better gear than you, deal with it. Thats ffxi. Not everyone has the same stuff. The idea that your entitled to it, is extremely laughable.

The issue is that even WITH those things, that accounts for 20% of the chance you'll finish 100. The other 80% comes from luck and luck alone.

[Mittenz]

^ This is not what most of the people who post on BG and in this thread sound like ^

Fact of the matter is that "ninja techniques" do dramatically increase your success rate. If you are going with less than a perfect setup, no voice communication, no "ninja techniques", etc. then your success rate is probably so low that you're best off aiming for 80.

I would like to point out that SE said that 60 or 80 should be what you expect and 100 would be a risk

If all you do is aim for 100 I do agree with the post by the person (though not as much in a jerk way) for this to be even imaginable you need to bring your A game, and no I don't mean these ninja techniques. Voice chat is widely used you can Skype and ventrillo for free (I know some don't like this idea but let's face it with the new ui stuff coming its clear they don't give a toss about consoles anymore) the key to this event is first and foremost communication and typing won't cut it. Proper playing (gear swaps optimal gear not just perle and proper setups ie no smn pup bst) the floor 100 may seem unrealistic unless you go in prepared for it. If you are not carrying remedies holy waters echoes if you are not saying what direction your going if your not Recieving the proper buffs your going to fail.

Realistically shoot for 80 unless your going in with your a team and a game because if it was as easy as the first nyzul the gear would probably be adjusted to be as useful then no one will be doing this event and then it's useless to everyone lucky or not.

[Demon6324236]

I would like to point out that SE said that 60 or 80 should be what you expect and 100 would be a risk

If all you do is aim for 100 I do agree with the post by the person (though not as much in a jerk way) for this to be even imaginable you need to bring your A game, and no I don't mean these ninja techniques. Voice chat is widely used you can Skype and ventrillo for free (I know some don't like this idea but let's face it with the new ui stuff coming its clear they don't give a toss about consoles anymore) the key to this event is first and foremost communication and typing won't cut it. Proper playing (gear swaps optimal gear not just perle and proper setups ie no smn pup bst

If they didn't care, they would drop PS2, possibly add PS3, reform the games graphics a bit, redo the game somewhat like with idk, the game that was/is FFXIV? And we could have our FFXI 2.0 as well, this is the one Final Fantasy game that exists where once its gone, its gone, its majestic world will never be returned to, however they rather pour more money into a world we have seen crumble already, in hopes to rebuild it but better. FFXI was left for dead with a small team, small choices, and an extremely large reliance on time sinks to give it life until they pull its plug for hopes FFXIV will take off.

[Fupafighter]

If a great group with no hacks has a 20% win rate, thats 1 piece every FIVE days. That's 2.5 HOURS a week to get AMAZING gear. I personally wouldn't F-in care if I had a win rate of 5-10%...that's still freaking great reward for time/effort. Get over it. Stop trying to bring nin thf pup and crap to neo nyzle. If your group can't clear the content, you probably shouldn't be aiming for neo nyzle gear, and you should be aiming to better yourself and then try again. The event is perfect. Yeah order floors are a great @($@ blocker....just try again the next day. It's only 30 minutes. No reason to be complaining this is still too hard. 2 SCH 4 heavy DD...that is all you need. And no, you may not be mediocre geared. You better be able to pump out ws of 3k consistantly, or you're doing it wrong. This is getting exhausting hearing everyone call this event hard... or too luck based. Flat out, it has great reward/effort ratio.

[Demon6324236]

If a great group with no hacks has a 20% win rate, thats 1 piece every FIVE days. That's 2.5 HOURS a week to get AMAZING gear. I personally wouldn't F-in care if I had a win rate of 5-10%...that's still freaking great reward for time/effort. Get over it. Stop trying to bring nin thf pup and crap to neo nyzle. If your group can't clear the content, you probably shouldn't be aiming for neo nyzle gear, and you should be aiming to better yourself and then try again. The event is perfect. Yeah order floors are a great @($@ blocker....just try again the next day. It's only 30 minutes. No reason to be complaining this is still too hard. 2 SCH 4 heavy DD...that is all you need. And no, you may not be mediocre geared. You better be able to pump out ws of 3k consistantly, or you're doing it wrong. This is getting exhausting hearing everyone call this event hard... or too luck based. Flat out, it has great reward/effort ratio.

And its getting exhausting hearing its not too luck based, it is, simple, luck on what floors are, luck on what spawns on said floors, luck what jumps you get, luck effects what amount of things you have to kill, luck basically rules it, kill speed, teamwork, many things do help, but they do not fix it as you think. If you have to kill 5 soulflayers that are spread out and take 5 minutes to kill, yes, your fucked, not only are they a bitch to deal with already but when they are all spread out, you can easily take much to long to do things. If some do it, cool, you can do it, luck still matters alot, to much for me to call it "balanced" because of that luck dependence.

[Fupafighter]

Yes....so is everything newer in FFXI at the moment. You could get a free floor after the soulflayer and a specified enemy after that floor and rebound from a shitty soulflayer floor too btw...the run isn't automatically over. Just shut up and enjoy the fact that it's easy and not that time consuming. It took me like 220 kills to get toci, I consider this a $$#%# gift.

[user201108211515]

I’d like to put the two different Nyzul challenges into perspective a bit.

The original Nyzul was a lot easier to clear, but the drop rates were not very high. On top of the drop rate, you would only get one piece of equipment as well, which could possibly be something different than what you were after.

The new Nyzul might be a bit more difficult to reach floor 100, but if you are able to successfully get there and defeat the boss, each party member has a 100% guaranteed item, and what’s even better is that you can select the item of your choice.

Based on the above, though it might be more challenging to reach the higher floors, when you get there you will definitely be rewarded.

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

seriously.. a "rep" posts here but sayn not 1 word about people cheating... or about the people admiting to cheating in this thread. This is a complete joke. Way to have 0 intergrity SE. Way to let people know its ok to cheat.