NEO Nyzul 2.0

[wish12oz]

this is 100% wrong, it is very luck based try telling that to a run where we probably jumped i think it was 21 times and was still on floor 62 with alot of 2-4 jumps. We cleared the floors fast like allways but if you cant get those big jumps it does not matter how good of a group it is unless your cheating hardcore you will not win. Last run we did again was luck based we got to floor 95 then jumped to floor 100 killed it with 1 min to spare if it landed on any other floor unless it was a really quick floor like 1 enemy in the next room we would have lost. That is again more luck based on what type and how big of a floor it is.

It's only luck based if you're bad at the game. If you can clear X number of floors you will win Y% of the time. Y will never be 100% unless you can clear 50 floors. Your 1 bad experiance does not mean the event is poorly designed, it just means that was your bad run. I'm sure youve had some where you won in 13~ jumps, which counters the 25~ required jump floors.


I have won 6 out of roughly 30-40 times

If you've done 35 runs and won 6, thats a 17% win rate, which is really good, and right where you should be if your group averages 16-18 floors per run. Good job to you for that, but seriously, you're complaining unnecessarily. If you had been doing the event since it was released, you would be done by now. And seriously, I would be willing to bet anything your average floor jumps per run is in the 17~ range.


I have won 6 out of roughly 30-40 times and your lieing to yourself if you think this is not luck based. Sure its not hard and it requires alot of attempts you just need to keep trying till you get that lucky run you need.

It's not luck based. If you can clear X number of floors on average you will win Y% of the time. Sure sometimes you will get really bad floor jumps, but sometimes you will get really awesome floor jumps too, and that will make up for the bad jumps when you look at the average after a long time. How lucky you get on 4 of out of 5 sets of floor jumps doesnt matter, because for your group, that 5th run will be amazing and you will get to floor 100.


That's what it is already, no ? Except the noobs are the ones claiming they are skilled when they have 100% cheats.

Sounds like someones jealous. But dont worry gchan, if you just try, maybe in like 6 months you can get that thaumas set for your monk and not be a gimp.

[Aisu]

I'm sorry you must not know what luck means sure you can do maths and work out averages like my group as you said is on average. But winning 2 100's is lucky in 3 runs then loseing 11 in a row is unlucky, you can work out averages but luck is the essence of how fortunate one is at a given time. Everything can be averaged out with a good sample size of data and i very well understand if i lose 1 run, chances of me winning are to go up if i keep at it. Jumping 22 floors and landing on floor 64, if that is not unlucky then i dont know what is and winning a floor 100 with more then 5 mins left is lucky. The event is not hard at all but if you can not get the average to large jumps then you will not win which was my point. you must not be able to read also i never said it was badly designed pls look again, i just quoted a bad run which was an unlucky run for my group. Please before replying again go look up what lucky and unlucky means.

[Camiie]

Sounds like someones jealous. But dont worry gchan, if you just try, maybe in like 6 months you can get that thaumas set for your monk and not be a gimp.

So if someone doesn't have a thaumas set they are gimp? Is this gear rare and special or just standard fare?

[MarkovChain]

Sounds like someones jealous. But dont worry gchan, if you just try, maybe in like 6 months you can get that thaumas set for your monk and not be a gimp.

It's ok Nyzlulz gear is only a sidegrade to abyssea (at least it's not a downgrade like legion/abyssea/lamebus/VW right ?), but I can understand why BG losers stress on Nyzul. Maybe it reminds them of when their forum actually meant shit ? When cheating was badass. Also salvage is coming out soon, we'll have a good laugh.

Also the devs need to say something about cheating. They have been acting like it doesn't exist so far yet the lamp dat numbers have supposedely been changed with the VU. Can you guyz stop being giant hypocrites already ?

[FrankReynolds]

So if someone doesn't have a thaumas set they are gimp? Is this gear rare and special or just standard fare?

Wish can't respond right now. he / she's busy over at change.org telling warren buffet to stop complaining about unfair taxes and be less poor.

[saevel]

Well, first off. Boss floors should never be a time waster for you. If they are, then you're fighting them wrong. Use Fanatic's against Floor 20/40/60/80 bosses and Fool's on floor 100. Your complaints generally make it sound like you need more damage. My group was WAR, THF (me), DRG, WAR, SCH, SCH. I probably should have been on WAR for more damage, but they liked me on THF for Collaborator when someone was dying and there wasn't a Scholar nearby. IMOP, it's not worth it for TH on the 99 boss especially as your group gets close to capping out.

That said, I wouldn't even venture in to NI on my PS2 with Order lamps as they are now. The odds of getting them are fairly low, but I'd still expect to see about one set per run on average and that's a little more rage than I need in my day-to-day playing.

This is just the standard "suck less!!!" argument. Damage is not the issue, not even close. WAR (Ukko) WAR (Rag) DRK (Rag) DRG (non-Relic) SCH SCH. Everything dies instantly. The floors are simply too big, splitting up helps but when your "kill all" includes two to three NMs that's not always wise, at least keep in pairs. Without those secret ninja techniques you use your not going to get from start to the back corridors, while killing everything, in the prescribed time limit. 100% isn't even fast enough.

It's just random luck, the game has far more ways to screw you over then just giving you bad jumps. Enemy Leader can be particularly evil, that custard comes to mind, or the "no WS" while fighting the bomb rat that runs away. Lamps honestly aren't that hard, just have vent / TS / skype and their pretty easy. Of course their only that easy with certain special ninja techniques.

I'm not for making it "Easier", I'm for removing the pure random crab. Remove the random "screw you" restrictions that can happen on floors. Make those random boss floors (20/40/60/80) able to be skipped with a small time penalty. And like someone else said, make lobby time not count and a small 60s extension after you kill the predetermined boss. None of these make it "easier" you still need to deal with the same lamps, kill all, enemy leader, and random jumps, you just remove the random middle finger SE gives you.

[hiko]

I have won 6 out of roughly 30-40 times and your lieing to yourself if you think this is not luck based. Sure its not hard and it requires alot of attempts you just need to keep trying till you get that lucky run you need.
grats your group got ~40 top items in 30-40 1/2h run. that's better than any event in ffxi .

and no, it's not only luck. A group getting exact same jump/floor than you got but with "weaker" DD's would time out on runs you cleared. even if nyzul is 75%luck 25%skill it's till better than VW that is 95%luck 5%skill
only "issue" with NIUR is that using 3rd pt tool lower the luck factor.

[Benihana]

It's ok Nyzlulz gear is only a sidegrade to abyssea (at least it's not a downgrade like legion/abyssea/lamebus/VW right ?), but I can understand why BG losers stress on Nyzul. Maybe it reminds them of when their forum actually meant shit ? When cheating was badass. Also salvage is coming out soon, we'll have a good laugh.

Also the devs need to say something about cheating. They have been acting like it doesn't exist so far yet the lamp dat numbers have supposedely been changed with the VU. Can you guyz stop being giant hypocrites already ?

lmao.

Delusional. haha

[Aisu]

grats your group got ~40 top items in 30-40 1/2h run. that's better than any event in ffxi .

and no, it's not only luck. A group getting exact same jump/floor than you got but with "weaker" DD's would time out on runs you cleared. even if nyzul is 75%luck 25%skill it's till better than VW that is 95%luck 5%skill
only "issue" with NIUR is that using 3rd pt tool lower the luck factor.

I never said it was 100% luck based and those weaker DD group could still win if they know what they are doing and had a lucky run. I dont win alot like i said im probably averaging about 1/5-6 runs, even if your the best group in the world you can't gaurentee a win getting 3-4 jumps alot because that is just pure unlucky. lucky and unlucky are just sayings to explain how fortunate one is, scientifically there is no such thing as luck since everything can be worked out mathimatically with probabilty and avergaes like wish said but people just dont seem to understand they are just sayings. Luck is what you make of it.

[detlef]

Getting one multiple job best-in slot piece of gear for every member of the group once a week is really good.

[FrankReynolds]

Getting one multiple job best-in slot piece of gear for every member of the group once a week is really good.

Which should lead to the obvious conclusion: This gear won't be best in slot for very long and spending all this time on it because of lame ass luck factor is a waste of time.

I'll reiterate my previous prediction: When all is said and done, this gear will be about as good as the old nyzul gear was at 75. The hassle and luck crap that goes into getting it is too much.

The gear will only stay best in slot for a very short time and as such should only take a very short time to get.

[MarkovChain]

Nyzul is not best in slot gear, it's situationnal gear.

[Aisu]

Which should lead to the obvious conclusion: This gear won't be best in slot for very long and spending all this time on it because of lame ass luck factor is a waste of time.

I'll reiterate my previous prediction: When all is said and done, this gear will be about as good as the old nyzul gear was at 75. The hassle and luck crap that goes into getting it is too much.

The gear will only stay best in slot for a very short time and as such should only take a very short time to get.

If you think of it lets say you average at 1 piece a week on a 30min a day event. That is 3 hours and 30 mins a week to get 7+ gear (including drops + the KI for 1 peice for each person) Thats 1 peice of very good gear every 30 mins and is alot quicker and better then aot of other peices of gear.

If thats also your attitude why bother with any gear cause chances are that most gear will be outdone by something. All gear takes effort to get also so why even bother playing this game if you think spending 30mins a day for currently the best gear for different situations then really what else you going to do in that time? I've seen people take alot longer for 1 peice of emp+2 gear.

[FrankReynolds]

If you think of it lets say you average at 1 piece a week on a 30min a day event. That is 3 hours and 30 mins a week to get 7+ gear (including drops + the KI for 1 peice for each person) Thats 1 peice of very good gear every 30 mins and is alot quicker and better then aot of other peices of gear.

If thats also your attitude why bother with any gear cause chances are that most gear will be outdone by something. All gear takes effort to get also so why even bother playing this game if you think spending 30mins a day for currently the best gear for different situations then really what else you going to do in that time? I've seen people take alot longer for 1 peice of emp+2 gear.

This would make sense if a significant number of (non cheating) players could get 1 piece every week, but the majority of players are not getting anywhere near that. The current event will take most players a long time to finish even 1 set. The sets will be overshadowed by other gear before most people finish getting it.

Any event where the rewards are outclassed before you even get them is a waste. That's why events die. It's also why it's dumb to make this event this hard (read luck based).

If the gear was OMFG good to the point where everyone knew that it wasn't going to be replaced in 6 weeks, then it might make sense to spend massive time getting it. But that is not the case at all. If you can cheat and get a full set of gear in a couple of weeks, then this event is worth doing. Otherwise, you are better off working on something that will last. Hence the distaste for the event.

Why spend hard earned money and time pulling a slot machine that dispenses coupons that expire before you can use them?

[Aisu]

This would make sense if a significant number of (non cheating) players could get 1 piece every week, but the majority of players are not getting anywhere near that. The current event will take most players a long time to finish even 1 set. The sets will be overshadowed by other gear before most people finish getting it.

Any event where the rewards are outclassed before you even get them is a waste. That's why events die. It's also why it's dumb to make this event this hard (read luck based).

If the gear was OMFG good to the point where everyone knew that it wasn't going to be replaced in 6 weeks, then it might make sense to spend massive time getting it. But that is not the case at all. If you can cheat and get a full set of gear in a couple of weeks, then this event is worth doing. Otherwise, you are better off working on something that will last. Hence the distaste for the event.

Why spend hard earned money and time pulling a slot machine that dispenses coupons that expire before you can use them?

for starters its not about getting the full set, of course its nice to have but each piece of gear is good in its own way and i find it hard to beleive how you can easily outclass a phorcys Korazin for any STR based Weapon skill especially. 16STR 50atk and 7% WS dmg, I could see it if our level was to rise further like alot of gear we got from abyssea was outclassed everytime the level cap increase. We are lvl 99 its not getting higher so i find it very hard to beleive anything you say.

It is very well possible to do this without cheating you just have to know what your doing and be well geared to begin with then you just have to keep trying. SE put other gear for those that are not able to do that at other floor levels they did not want the 100 peices to be easy to obtain since it is such amazing situational gear. Like they said if they made it easier they would have to nerf the gear. Just because some people can't do this event they believe everyone who is succeeding is cheating.

[Demon6324236]

The thing is, if proper changes are made to it, Embrava will not make it any easier that it is now. You guys need to understand that no one here is suggesting it be easier. We are saying the difficulty should be in the skill employed by players, not in the luck used in behind-the-scenes scripting.

You also need to understand that, unless SCH 2hr is adjusted, or Embrava is adjusted, any change made will obviously affect a SCHx2 setup as well. However, it is more important to fix a broken event, than it is to keep it broken for the sake of making it easier for those players who always do a hack+mod+schx2 setup.

The only reason to not fix NI is so that e-peens don't go flaccid. An honest, impartial assessment of the event can loan you no other perspective than that the event is broken as is, and needs to be adjusted.

I'm on your side of this incase you didn't know, all I was saying is in your idea of removing the necessity of 2 SCHs is not going to fix this event. It will fix a single problem and create another. Due to SEs creation of both Perfect Defense & Embrava along with their current mentality of luck being a great factor when determining if someone gets items, all events will in some way be broken.

Any event that is short, meaning it is a single fight or many very fast multiple fights, will be done with a SMN, Perfect Defense allows you to fight with mainly an army of DDs, with a few buffers and a SMN for each party, this is easy. Any NM not built to withstand this assault, or group of NMs, will not survive it, and will be labeld as to easy, however anything that requires Perfect Defense to win, will be labeled as to hard because it has to have a certain setup.

Any event that is long and time taking, meaning Nyzul mainly as there are currently no other real events like it in terms of time, will need a SCH. This is because if it is built without Embrava intended, kills will be much faster when a party uses it, and will have it to easy. However, the way it is currently, where Embrava is required for victory, is to hard, because you must have something specific to win.

Any event that requires neither SMN or SCH, is bound to have luck involved as a major point, it is SE's only way they have found to balance out the possible use of Embrava/PD to make things to easy. This is the reason behind the argument drop rates would be lowered for NNI if Embrava was no longer required.

No matter what, these 3 things apply to all events we have been given since abyssea. All of these 3 paths, Perfect Defense, Embrava, and Luck, are broken in their own way. Everything will either be to easy with these 2hours, or nearly impossible without them, and in the end create a broken and flawed system.


However, it is more important to fix a broken event

This is the difficult part, there is truly no way to fix this, without breaking it in a different way, to fix 1, is to break the other, and this is the real problem.

[Llana_Virren]

This is the difficult part, there is truly no way to fix this, without breaking it in a different way, to fix 1, is to break the other, and this is the real problem.

Agreed. I simply do not subscribe to the idea that "if it's broke no matter what, don't fix it" philosophy of Dev+Hax.

Considering not much isn't broken right now, I say to hell with it. They could fix RDM while they're at it, giving them AOE Haste/Refresh/SS/Blink/Bar, and AOE debuffs. Take Embrava down a notch (or two...) and allow any mob that cons as "Impossible to gauge" to be staggered.

Will that fix everything? No.
Will it un-stupify some of what they've done? Well, not like it can get any worse... <___<

[Demon6324236]

They could fix RDM while they're at it, giving them AOE Haste/Refresh/SS/Blink/Bar, and AOE debuffs.

This actually wouldn't do much at all, AoE buffs might but SCH/RDM gets that just the same other than Haste. Debuffs would be pointless as most events are currently 1 NM fights, (Neo-Limbus, Neo-Odin, VW) and the ones with alot of enemys are to fast paced for RDM to be acceptable.

Other than that I agree with you on the rest, fixing it would be great, I was only saying that fixing is still breaking which is why I kinda see peoples point on not doing it. Like I said before, its either make some people mad everyone can enjoy the game in good gear, or make alot more people mad by rejecting them because of BS reasons.

Staggering all NMs could be nice but myself I am tired of procing in general. Being said job to said event so said NM can drop said item at a higher rate or is terrored so it can be zerged while drops are slightly better. Just an excuse to get everything active basically so it seems like the half the job list that is unused can get some use again.

As for Embrava, while I think it is overpowered to all hell, I'm not sure how to nerf it without pissing off the entire playerbase that plays SCH. The spell gave SCH a real role to play rather than it being how RDM is but a lil better off, and many have went to the trouble of making Enhancing Magic sets for this reason, if it were nerfed you can only imagine the /rage from the people who spent hours/days going after that gear.

[Llana_Virren]

What I hope for is more "Dynamis-like" events (multi-party, multi-mob) so that AOE debuffs/buffs become useful, as well as a new dynamic strategy that really hasn't been used in FFXI. You could say beseiged was like this... but really the NPCs carried players, and the monsters were unrealistically strong, and that was a zone-borking event. I could talk at-end for this idea, but I'll save that for another time

Nevertheless, to hell with pissing off the community, lol! They gimped RNG way-back-when for being so overpowered a RNG party could kill anything, and that had people up in arms for months. Now, looking back, everyone had to admit that the nerf was necessary, but that didn't keep from pissing every RNG off....

Sometimes the cure isn't painless, but when the cancer of mediocrity and "one-job-onry" starts to spread, you gotta bring the chemo.

That's to say, let the gear still have its use, but not as potent a use. Let the job still have a use, but not to be a pocket Embrava. Let's not confuse the job with it's spell... RDM was necessary until other forms of killga came about. And with the lack of need for Refresh/Haste cycling, there was nothing left for the job. SCH is a borked job which offers nothing but chaos to FFXI, and without Embrava, what would it be but a slot-taker for RDM, WHM or BLM? Yeah, that's balanced... <_<

[Aldersyde]

As for Embrava, while I think it is overpowered to all hell, I'm not sure how to nerf it without pissing off the entire playerbase that plays SCH. The spell gave SCH a real role to play rather than it being how RDM is but a lil better off, and many have went to the trouble of making Enhancing Magic sets for this reason, if it were nerfed you can only imagine the /rage from the people who spent hours/days going after that gear.

1. This should be the only criteria in assessing whether an ability or spell should be adjusted. If the devs have purposely designed events to center around sch's 2 hour, it's pretty crappy design.

2. Maybe SE shouldn't have introduced an altogether redundant mage job then, aside from it's utility as a sub job (which was the stated purpose of sch and dnc when they were introduced).

3. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic here or not.

[Gokku]

Question for those currently not doing the event due to sch/ luck / not having xyz job.

if they removed the luck from the event 100% lets say by removing lamps added timer pause and adding a proper waiting room while also fixing some of the jump ratio's. So you need to clear 10-15 instead of 15-25 floors

BUT in response for doing so they crank the level off all the mobs up to 95-99 on trash and higher for bosses etc. The higher HP , def , dmg delt and overall kill time of mobs doubles and triples. The likelihood of getting a kill all floor raises sharply. Now for most groups this event now becomes a skill/gear check with the occasional run killers in place becoming more frequent.

Would players be more content with this content if it had such a high level of entry that 90% of the player base couldn't clear it? Because that's the kind of change you have to assume they will make. SE is not know for letting you have you cake and eat it to.

[Eric]

As for Embrava, while I think it is overpowered to all hell, I'm not sure how to nerf it without pissing off the entire playerbase that plays SCH. The spell gave SCH a real role to play rather than it being how RDM is but a lil better off, and many have went to the trouble of making Enhancing Magic sets for this reason, if it were nerfed you can only imagine the /rage from the people who spent hours/days going after that gear.

Why does Embrava need to be nerfed? Are you going to suggest that Perfect Defense be nerfed as well?

As for Enhancing Magic sets, even if the perfect set were as easy to get as you say it is, do you know how frickin' annoying and time-consuming it is to cap Enhancing Magic?


1. This should be the only criteria in assessing whether an ability or spell should be adjusted. If the devs have purposely designed events to center around sch's 2 hour, it's pretty crappy design.


This game has always had events/NMs/BCNMs/whatever that require very specific job setups. This isn't new.

[Demon6324236]

Why does Embrava need to be nerfed? Are you going to suggest that Perfect Defense be nerfed as well?

As I have said before, these 2 abilitys must be built around in all events made so they do not make the event easy when using them. NNI that is not requiring Embrava would mean everyone could kill at half the speed or slower and still get by, this means everyone WITH Embrava killing at twice the speed would fly through it with ease. Absolute Virtue was once a bitch, now he can die in 1minute with Perfect Defense, 1BRD, 1COR, and 1SCH for Embrava, 1SMN for each party, and the rest just DDs. Nerfing them is the only way to stop all events from having to be built around them, any event not built to withstand Embrava or PD used is easy, as I said before, I think Odin & Neo-Limbus are probably easy because of these zerg methods, I wouldn't know because I haven't fought them, but it seems likely.


As for Enhancing Magic sets, even if the perfect set were as easy to get as you say it is, do you know how frickin' annoying and time-consuming it is to cap Enhancing Magic?

I have capped Enhancing Magic, so yes, I know and understand it, honestly Martial Master with skillup food & spamming Bar-spells as a SCH/RDM or RDM/SCH for a few hours can get you very very far. Gear isn't all to bad in the end, you only need friends or money to get it all especially now that you can basically buy an Anhur's now. Just make and use this set (http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/262089) or a variant of it with small changes, if you really want the set and are willing to work for it, it will actually only take a few days or a week, not much more I would think unless your unlucky with VW.


Kirin's(+1~12) 500k
Fulcio(+3) 10k
AF3 Ammo(+4) Flan NM In Kon[A]
AF3+2 Head(+10) Abyssea Stuff
Colossus's Torque(+7/10) Beat ToAU and Alex SMN fight, easy now days, can solo final fight & Alex fight on certain jobs even.
Augmented/Aptus Earrings(+2/3) Augmented can be bought or from a BCNM, Aptus is from ASA missions, but these shouldn't be needed anyways.
Anhur(+12) Buy cells, or farm Celaeno, if lucky or you spam it all day I don't see this taking more than a week or so at most, boring ass week though.
AF3+2 Hands(Duration+25% if used with Perpetuance) Abyssea Stuff
Merciful(+5) Ix'aern MNK, ask someone farming Sea pops or ask a friend to come help and let them have extra drops to sell or use.
Olympus(+5) Buy or get from BCNMs
Portant(+15) Make a win party for Raja, bring a brew, and ask a friend or someone coming for win to try to proc blue while its blunt time, also bring a THF if possible.
Rubeus Boots(+10) Make partys and spam this NM, shouldn't take to long, seems to have a "decent" drop by VW standards.
Total(+73~90)

Cap is 404 without merits, if attempting to get enhancing magic above 500 I assume you have it at capped merits, this means your base skill is 420, with the smallest amount from this set and ignoring earrings, you will have only 493, with earrings 498, this is however with the Kirin's having +1, if its +7 or higher then you can still ignore the annoying earrings and be just as well off.


This game has always had events/NMs/BCNMs/whatever that require very specific job setups. This isn't new.

Yes, but it normally doesn't/didn't have a problem where 1 of 2 jobs had to goto every single event in the game for them to be winnable, or that can make them laughably easy as it is now. Embrava & PD do just that, Legion seems like its not gonna happen without PD, Odin & Neo-Limbus might be the same, I have no idea, ADL seems to need PD as well. This requirement of 1 of the 2 jobs is the problem, and why I said anything relating to nerfing them. When/if an event comes out that does not need either of these 2, it will be won by those using them very fast. If an event is made like NNI where 1 of them is so needed it is so far as to be a requirement, people will be mad when not wanting to conform to a single strategy using the abilitys of 1 job to make it through, especially when you need 2~3 of them to do it, not only 1 even.

[Demon6324236]

1. This should be the only criteria in assessing whether an ability or spell should be adjusted. If the devs have purposely designed events to center around sch's 2 hour, it's pretty crappy design.

2. Maybe SE shouldn't have introduced an altogether redundant mage job then, aside from it's utility as a sub job (which was the stated purpose of sch and dnc when they were introduced).

3. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic here or not.

1. As I have said, they have almost no choice but to design events around Embrava, if they don't then people using it will be done very fast.

2. Honestly the job in and of itself is good, if you look at it in 1 way the job makes sense to have anyways. WAR, WHM, and BLM are Red, Blue, and Yellow, WAR+WHM=PLD(Red+Blue=Purple) WAR+BLM=DRK(Red+Yellow=Green) WHM+BLM=SCH(Blue+Yellow=Green) and when you put them all together, WAR+WHM+BLM=RDM(Red+Blue+Yellow=Brown) thus there is a combo from each of the primary roles(colors :P) and it fits in. So far as the job itself goes, SCH has no use today outside of Embrava for the same reason BLM has no role today outside of procing, magic is dead in terms of damage, abyssea is the last place you see it used because everything is zerging now, and until there is Embrava but for magic with FastCast/Refresh/MAB, it will not return. Healing is still ruled by WHM however SCH can do alot on that subject, but loses procs, leaving it out of half the events along with no Stoneskin cures.

3.My other post above this one explains gear & skill acquisition for Enhancing Magic.

[Demon6324236]

Question for those currently not doing the event due to sch/ luck / not having xyz job.

if they removed the luck from the event 100% lets say by removing lamps added timer pause and adding a proper waiting room while also fixing some of the jump ratio's. So you need to clear 10-15 instead of 15-25 floors

BUT in response for doing so they crank the level off all the mobs up to 95-99 on trash and higher for bosses etc. The higher HP , def , dmg delt and overall kill time of mobs doubles and triples. The likelihood of getting a kill all floor raises sharply. Now for most groups this event now becomes a skill/gear check with the occasional run killers in place becoming more frequent.

Would players be more content with this content if it had such a high level of entry that 90% of the player base couldn't clear it? Because that's the kind of change you have to assume they will make. SE is not know for letting you have you cake and eat it to.

Other than making the "Kill all" floors more common than they already are, this would probably make it more skill based in the end so long as luck is knocked down enough for it to be balanced and winnable. I am however doing NNI still so if you want to ignore my input do so as your question was to those who are not.

[Demon6324236]

What I hope for is more "Dynamis-like" events (multi-party, multi-mob) so that AOE debuffs/buffs become useful

Honestly in terms of Dynamis-like events, I was looking forward to Limbus being at least somewhat like that, not exactly how its got many partys at one time, but where it would have many small mobs that are strong and on the climb to something greater. AF1+2 to give more gear to our jobs, maybe even augments with it that improve the abilitys/traits we have gotten since 75 rather than focusing on them & merits. This however was squashed when I was told its just Arch-blah blah and no new climb, AF1+2 or anything of the same would be given.



Something just came to mind actually, why do we call this Neo-Nyzul Isle? SE seems to be all Arch-blah blah now so I would think if anything it would be Arch-Nyzul Isle... idk, just an off topic thought. :x

[Dragoy]

Something just came to mind actually, why do we call this Neo-Nyzul Isle? SE seems to be all Arch-blah blah now so I would think if anything it would be Arch-Nyzul Isle... idk, just an off topic thought. :x

I dislike this naming that seemed to start with 'neo-dynamis' very much myself as I've probably mentioned too many times before.

While the game calls them all “new” things arch-things (which I don't like either), the english (mainly american, methinks) started calling the events neo-event. I don't like it, but I don't like many things the community went with. Such as calling relic af2, and empyrean af3, and that sort of things!

But that's me. I don't really care if people call them flowerpots! xd


Either way, they will likely adjust this content at some point. As they have stated, they like to start with an event that is challenging and hard (meaning stupidly random/luck-based, and just ridonkulous), and later adjust it so that more people can do it (example the latest Voidwatch adjustments).

I can't get it why they can't go with doing it right the first time. Everything does not need to be a time-sink only. Just make it interesting and profitable enough so that people keep doing it, instead of artificially prolonging the tedious procedure.

Make it fun, not some tedious grind that has no meaning.
Should be quite clear these days how to do these things.

Altana's tearing up...

[Xantavia]

Question for those currently not doing the event due to sch/ luck / not having xyz job.

if they removed the luck from the event 100% lets say by removing lamps added timer pause and adding a proper waiting room while also fixing some of the jump ratio's. So you need to clear 10-15 instead of 15-25 floors

BUT in response for doing so they crank the level off all the mobs up to 95-99 on trash and higher for bosses etc. The higher HP , def , dmg delt and overall kill time of mobs doubles and triples. The likelihood of getting a kill all floor raises sharply. Now for most groups this event now becomes a skill/gear check with the occasional run killers in place becoming more frequent.

Would players be more content with this content if it had such a high level of entry that 90% of the player base couldn't clear it? Because that's the kind of change you have to assume they will make. SE is not know for letting you have you cake and eat it to.
I personally think this would be the better way to do it. If you weren't good enough to clear 100 at the begininng, there would still be a glimmer that you could do it later. Maybe get to 60 on a consistant basis. Use that gear until you can reach 80. Get the 80 gear to eventually reach 100. I would see that as progress, though I bet a lot of others would see it as a waste of time.

The way I see it now is that there is no hope to win if you are not willing to cheat. It wouldn't be a matter of getting better gear, understanding the game better, having your group function as a better team. It would be about where you are willing to draw the line when it comes to following game policy. And I personally don't think players should get better rewards because they are willing to use a separate set of rules from the rest. (grumble, grumble, kids these days, always cheating and thinking nothing of it)

[DarkBass]

Been seeing a lot of uproars about things centering around a specific job setup or abilities, and I would like to point out that that these things make jobs stand out in certain areas than others and makes them more appreciated.

Without certain jobs having specific advantages in certain areas, nothing would be special or fun. You could have a Whm/war be your healer in nyzul isle and your bard be the DD and a smn is in charge of buffs. Certain things require certain jobs. That's why you can level more than one. That's why we all can't use every ability and spell at the same time.

Strategy plays a huge role in this game, if not the central fundamental aspect, but with strategy there are possible advantages and disadvantages. If not for that things get boring real quick and there is no challenge. No Uncharted Nyzul is not for run of the mill DD. I'm not gonna say you need specific DD's but you can't abyssea burn your way to 99 and expect to win this event. You gotta work hard and fine tune your job. Gear it VERY well, and you will be prepared to attempt this. Embrava shines in this event so much. Its part of a winning strategy.

Since the rewards are so amazing, the difficulty is as well. The fact that voice communication through skype or vent is kind of essential kinda sucks, but hey its not suppose to be easy. Its suppose to be something you work hard to prepare for and to win. Do all this and you can win without hacks and dat swaps. Hell even with dat swaps and no hacks, the playing field is a little more leveled, but you can still lose. Hacks takes the challenge away.

[MarkovChain]

This the offer I made in theother thread


Haha you lose. I'm giving 5 of my 171 marrows to anyone posting their own self made video of a cheat-less F100 Neo Nyzul clear. Come on, show us your mad skillz.

[Gokku]

I pose another question for anyone / everyone.

Examples : FFXIV2.0 / WoW

Now wow supports user created content interfaces etc to enhance player ability / information flow from the game to the player. Be it simple UI tweaks , in game quest help , loot tables etc. I do recognize that WoW is on PC only , hence me bringing up ffxiv2.0. It has been stated that 2.0 will allow PC users to experience that same kind of user created customizations, and that those will be unique to the PC experience. Both will have and DO have obvious rules to what the add ons can and cant do.

That being said , lets say the FFXI team realizes "hey its about time we caught up with the future and let the player base expand what we don't have time to" and they allow the same general idea of 3rd party addons to be ok'd on PC within a limited scope. so you would have , (cheat) windower and most of its basic plugins allowed , status timer, yarnball, timestamp , chatmon etc. those are all user based add ons that effect the game in no way. BUT fillmode , all bots ,etc are still banned.

For console players would you be mad at it, for pc users cheaters would you be happy, for none cheating pc users would you consider using add ons.

i guess im just curious if its the CHEAT factor or the fact of THEY CAN BUT WE CANT that has so many up in arms about this event. i mean ill be reactivating my account just for this mog shit in a week or so but still curious as to what is driving the rage machine.

[Demon6324236]

I pose another question for anyone / everyone.

Examples : FFXIV2.0 / WoW

Now wow supports user created content interfaces etc to enhance player ability / information flow from the game to the player. Be it simple UI tweaks , in game quest help , loot tables etc. I do recognize that WoW is on PC only , hence me bringing up ffxiv2.0. It has been stated that 2.0 will allow PC users to experience that same kind of user created customizations, and that those will be unique to the PC experience. Both will have and DO have obvious rules to what the add ons can and cant do.

That being said , lets say the FFXI team realizes "hey its about time we caught up with the future and let the player base expand what we don't have time to" and they allow the same general idea of 3rd party addons to be ok'd on PC within a limited scope. so you would have , (cheat) windower and most of its basic plugins allowed , status timer, yarnball, timestamp , chatmon etc. those are all user based add ons that effect the game in no way. BUT fillmode , all bots ,etc are still banned.

For console players would you be mad at it, for pc users cheaters would you be happy, for none cheating pc users would you consider using add ons.

i guess im just curious if its the CHEAT factor or the fact of THEY CAN BUT WE CANT that has so many up in arms about this event. i mean ill be reactivating my account just for this mog shit in a week or so but still curious as to what is driving the rage machine.

Actually~ If I'm not mistaken this is what you suggest in a way. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/22877-New-Windows-Version-User-Interface?highlight=User+interface) We are getting a PC-only UI update that will allow for players to addon to the interface due to SE giving players the coding and such to do so. Also we will be able to open many windows and have a very different and open interface if we choose it seems. From how people in that thread make it sound it is much the same as FFXIV is, however I don't know from experience. If this is the case its not so much a "what if" its more a question of "when the time comes" that we should be asking.

[Alpheus]

From how I understand the upcoming UI changes Demon they will only be accessible should you happen to play sans a controller. I'm not saying you aren't aware of this but rather just chiming in to possibly clarify (since what I'm saying is to my understanding) that these will not be blanket UI changes.

Then again perhaps details w/ the UI update and changes are up in the air.

[Demon6324236]

Yes but the question asked was about the UI changing for the PC, it is changing, not that everyone must use it but it will be given as an option to PC players. So far as controllers I am confused how they mean it, it could be where you can not use a controller at all with it, or just that the controller would not be able to move things or access certain parts of the change. In either way the change will still be made and some of the community will use it, it may even allow for changes people will make to how macros work & controller accessibility, I may be to optimistic in this though. In any case I was only pointing it out because PC is getting an update in UI and it will be legitimate either way while consoles will not have access to the option let alone function, which seemed to be who it was aimed at mostly (or at least those who think people with different interfaces are cheating, currently they are however later, they might not be.)

[Eric]

Portant(+15) Make a win party for Raja, bring a brew, and ask a friend or someone coming for win to try to proc blue while its blunt time, also bring a THF if possible.


Sorry, this is a bit of a late reply, and also an off-subject one, but why use Portent pants when the AF1 pants do the same thing (Enhancing magic +15 while under Light Arts)?

Is there something I'm missing here?

[Gokku]

Sorry, this is a bit of a late reply, and also an off-subject one, but why use Portent pants when the AF1 pants do the same thing (Enhancing magic +15 while under Light Arts)?

Is there something I'm missing here?

brewing is faster then doing the AF quest i think, esp since youll be int he zone farming af3+2 anyways

[Zerich]

SCH is a borked job which offers nothing but chaos to FFXI, and without Embrava, what would it be but a slot-taker for RDM, WHM or BLM? Yeah, that's balanced... <_<

i must introduce you to my dear friend, <<Stratagems>>

[Llana_Virren]

Sorry, this is a bit of a late reply, and also an off-subject one, but why use Portent pants when the AF1 pants do the same thing (Enhancing magic +15 while under Light Arts)?

Is there something I'm missing here?

Maybe the Dark skill on Portents? I don't know either :P

[Arcon]

Sorry, this is a bit of a late reply, and also an off-subject one, but why use Portent pants when the AF1 pants do the same thing (Enhancing magic +15 while under Light Arts)?

Is there something I'm missing here?

Because Portent are a clear upgrade if you have them. They may not be in any way essential, but if you have them, it's an inventory saver, because it does the same as the AF1, only the skill bonus is constant, they are equippable by several jobs and have Dark skill as well, which is actually useful, unlike Healing or Divine.

[Demon6324236]

Sorry, this is a bit of a late reply, and also an off-subject one, but why use Portent pants when the AF1 pants do the same thing (Enhancing magic +15 while under Light Arts)?

Is there something I'm missing here?

This was actually an oversight on my part, I am not familiar with all of the AF sets for SCH. As RDM I had to get Portent because while AF1 legs for RDM has Enhancing Magic Portent were a clear choice for Enfeebling as well. I use them on my SCH for this reason so I put em in it, however I'm sure AF1 SCH legs work just as well ^_^

[Camiie]

Do the devs see the extremely rampant cheating, and the fact that those who cheat feel more than justified in doing so, as a sign that this event needs serious adjustment? I know it probably isn't actionable, but people are feeling so justified and I guess untouchable that they are brazenly admitting cheating at Neo-Nyzul. It wasn't SE's intention to create an event where players felt cheating was necessary to even have a chance at winning was it? That does seem to be what's been produced, intentionally or not.

With all the complaints on this and other forums and the cheating, is that not a sign that everything isn't as fine with Neo-Nyzul as the devs seem to believe? It may fit their vision of a perfect event, but to the players it's a disaster of epic proportions. I've tried it and choose to ignore it, because I feel this event wasn't intended for a "normal" player like me. Others, some who wouldn't otherwise do so, cheat in whatever way they can to bypass what they feel are unfair design choices. Often their excuse is that the dev team has turned a deaf ear to their complaints and recommendations. I've urged some to come here and offer more complaints and more input, but they've given up hope for any sort of positive response from the devs. They're resigned to cheating their way through the event as their only recourse.

I think it would be very wise of the devs to set their own ideas aside for once and really listen to the players here before things get any worse. The cheating and negative feelings toward SE are growing and festering over the randomness and unfairness in this event. SE is often very slow to take action, and has obviously been far too slow in this case. The devs need to start acting now to save face and prevent player frustration from boiling over even more and to avoid having to do another mass ban as with Salvage.

[MarkovChain]

So apparently noone is able to make a video of themselves winning Nyzul, even though I offered 5 marrows.

[Demon6324236]

So apparently noone is able to make a video of themselves winning Nyzul, even though I offered 5 marrows.

For 1, I doubt you would pay real money to change servers so that you could hand me 5 virtual items on a bet. 2, its not worth time to go record a video of me doing it when I have to ask the other 5 to do it as well so you can see they arnt cheating either. I think this is the general idea on your offer, sorry to disappoint.

[FrankReynolds]

So let me get this straight... He's offering roughly 80 million gil to the first group to film a winning run without cheating, and people think it's too inconvenient?

[MarkovChain]

For 1, I doubt you would pay real money to change servers so that you could hand me 5 virtual items on a bet. 2, its not worth time to go record a video of me doing it when I have to ask the other 5 to do it as well so you can see they arnt cheating either. I think this is the general idea on your offer, sorry to disappoint.

Lol, I didn't ask for anything but a video and if you happen to come to quetz I'll give you 5 of my 200 marrows. Worse case scenario you post a video proving me wrong and it costs you zero. It's not like you lose anything.

[Demon6324236]

So let me get this straight... He's offering roughly 80 million gil to the first group to film a winning run without cheating, and people think it's too inconvenient?

Well really, offering what is equal to about 13mil per person being that it would be everyone in the group doing the run, and then everyone recording the run, so if your selling them, 13mil. Also as I said, I doubt someone would really pay 15 dollars to change servers, give someone some items, and go back for another 15.

[MarkovChain]

I didn't ask for everyone in the group to make a video, so it's 80M to the first guy of your group to make the vid. Your are trying too hard lol.

[wish12oz]

I ask people in my LS if anyone wanted to do it, but your reward is lacking in motivation to get us to go. How about you offer 5 marrows each and we'll do it. Then it would even be worth server transferring a mule to get them.

EDIT:::
Maybe I should point out that my LS as a whole makes like 70m a day, that might make people understand what Im talking about when I say we dont care enough about making an extra 50m as per gchans offer to go do some content we've already cleaered.

[Demon6324236]

I didn't ask for everyone in the group to make a video, so it's 80M to the first guy of your group to make the vid. Your are trying too hard lol.

Not really, if only I record then how do you know the other 5 aren't cheating? You ask for a legit win however with only 1 player recording you can not be sure it is a legit run.

[MarkovChain]

Maybe I should point out that my LS as a whole makes like 70m a day

I wonder who will get shining shinies the first. Your LS or mine ? Countdown D-7.

[wish12oz]

I wonder who will get shining shinies the first. Your LS or mine ? Countdown D-7.

We're not dumb enough to get afterglow on a weapon.

[MarkovChain]

Not really, if only I record then how do you know the other 5 aren't cheating? You ask for a legit win however with only 1 player recording you can not be sure it is a legit run.

It's funny. Instead of anticipating what my jugement on the video would be, why don't you post a clean clear first before we can start arguing. It's easy to guess if others are cheating or not just by showing any lamp floor order. If like wish12oz you think than lamp order are seldom, then go ahead and post win still.

[Llana_Virren]

So let me get this straight... He's offering roughly 80 million gil to the first group to film a winning run without cheating, and people think it's too inconvenient?

Cheaters think it would be a waste of time to try getting a floor-100 win in Vanilla mode for 80M gil, when they can just keep doing what they're doing. Yes.

[wish12oz]

Everyone who can make gil thinks it would be a waste of time to get a floor-100 win in Vanilla mode for 7M~ gil, when they already have all the gear, and would have to download and learn to use 2-4 programs and find somewhere to upload a video and pay $25 for a server transfer and everything else that comes with gchans offer, when they can just keep doing what they're doing. Yes.

Fixed your statement to reflect reality.

[Natenn]

I went 3/3 one day, TONS of 6-9 floor jumps, ppl actually knowing how to do lamps helps a ton. Nyzul comes down to your luck on floor jumping, you don't need to cheat at all. But i guess its hard for the "abyssea raised" generation to know how to do content when you can't crutch on weakness procs/atma to win.

[Natenn]

/point quetz person

[Demon6324236]

I went 3/3 one day, TONS of 6-9 floor jumps, ppl actually knowing how to do lamps helps a ton. Nyzul comes down to your luck on floor jumping, you don't need to cheat at all. But i guess its hard for the "abyssea raised" generation to know how to do content when you can't crutch on weakness procs/atma to win.

Atma/Weakness has nothing to do with not liking luck based systems in a game.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I went 3/3 one day, TONS of 6-9 floor jumps, ppl actually knowing how to do lamps helps a ton. Nyzul comes down to your luck on floor jumping, you don't need to cheat at all. But i guess its hard for the "abyssea raised" generation to know how to do content when you can't crutch on weakness procs/atma to win.

Seeing as without .dat swaps they're random, and have a stupid delay on a failure it's hardly capable of having "people knowing how to do them" unless you're referring to same lamp in which case a monkey could get that.

I know how to play Poker and Roulette doesn't mean it helps to guarantee me winning, well actually I can, but just like this it's not exactly legal.

[Natenn]

I love you guys lol so hard to accept you don't need to cheat to win, i meant abyssea lowered ppls IQ of how to funtion affectively in XI. The only REAL problems in new nyzul are the specific order lamp floors: cooldown between attempts and how many times you get that type of requirement in a run, 4 or more is bad for time. Can handle 3 and make it to 100. Other then that its just luck when jumping floors, ive done 12 jumps and hit 100 b4, ive also done 16 jumps and only made it to F50-60. Learn to do lamp order and your success rate will go up.

[Demon6324236]

I love you guys lol so hard to accept you don't need to cheat to win, i meant abyssea lowered ppls IQ of how to funtion affectively in XI. The only REAL problems in new nyzul are the specific order lamp floors: cooldown between attempts and how many times you get that type of requirement in a run, 4 or more is bad for time. Can handle 3 and make it to 100. Other then that its just luck when jumping floors, ive done 12 jumps and hit 100 b4, ive also done 16 jumps and only made it to F50-60. Learn to do lamp order and your success rate will go up.

--1------2-------3------4-------5-------6------7-------8------9------10-- ---11
(1+9)=(10+9)=(19+9)=(28+9)=(37+9)=(46+9)=(55+9)=(64+9)=(73+9)=(82+9)=(91+9)=100...
This is 11 jumps... your telling me you have went a run with an average of 8~9 floors a jump?
Sorry, yes, I call bullshit on this claim.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I love you guys lol so hard to accept you don't need to cheat to win, i meant abyssea lowered ppls IQ of how to funtion affectively in XI. The only REAL problems in new nyzul are the specific order lamp floors: cooldown between attempts and how many times you get that type of requirement in a run, 4 or more is bad for time. Can handle 3 and make it to 100. Other then that its just luck when jumping floors, ive done 12 jumps and hit 100 b4, ive also done 16 jumps and only made it to F50-60. Learn to do lamp order and your success rate will go up.

Again, you mean .dat swap.

Cover it in roses if you like but it's still s**t.

Lamp order is RANDOM, you can't learn to do Lamp order.

Having them show up as Lamp 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 is not how SE done it, that's a .dat swap dear sir.

[Arcon]

(1+9)=(10+9)=(19+9)=(28+9)=(37+9)=(46+9)=(55+9)=(64+9)=(73+9)=(82+9)=(91+9)=100...

My math teacher would kill you for that.

[Demon6324236]

My math teacher would kill you for that.

I put them in ()s for the reason it looks like shit when you put it as

1+9=10+9=19+9=28+9=37+9=46+9=55+9=64+9=73+9=82+9=91+9=100

Not meaning mathematical where you would add the numbers inside of the ()s before doing the rest of the equation, I have reasoning, not stupidity.

Also to make it easier to follow along with the numbers above the set of numbers for each jump.

[Natenn]

I'm not gonna debate with crybabys. I have 6/15 new nyzul gear, ive failed a good chunk of runs do to terrible floor jumps, be mad if you want, we didnt cheat and won, most ppl cheat and still lose, you mad.

[Demon6324236]

I'm not gonna debate with crybabys. I have 6/15 new nyzul gear, ive failed a good chunk of runs do to terrible floor jumps, be mad if you want, we didnt cheat and won, most ppl cheat and still lose, you mad.

Nothing to do with being mad, its about probability, I don't think that you actually averaged 8 & 9 jumps on a run to make it in 12 jumps. The probability of that is very low. It seems more likely you pulled some numbers out of your head real fast that would make you look like your point was valid. Instead I called you on your extremely unlikely claim and now all you can say is the good ol "U mad bro?" type of comment. Go away, don't need you trolling around here, have enough of those already.

Besides, you only state my problems with it as virtues even, getting 16 floors and getting no where or 12 and hitting the jackpot, funny thing is, that is entirely luck. Something I have been saying since I posted in this thread was that the luck factor is alot of BS. Basically when you do NNI you roll 20 dice, most dice must land on a 5 or 6, anything less and you lose. You roll every jump, 1 to determine your number of floors, 2 to determine the objective of said floor, 3 to determine the contents of the floor, 4 to determine the size and layout of the area in which you do this. 4 dice rolled every time you go up, your 12 jumps would be 48 roles might get lucky, might get alot of soulflayer floors and large areas with your targets half way across the entire place from you. Simple way to say it, to much luck involved in this event.

[Natenn]

ITS SUPPOSED TO BE LUCK BASED, 100% chance of getting at least platinum KI + boss drops up to 2 pieces of gear. JUst suck it up and deal with it.

[Shadowsong]

Natenn, you DO realize the "you mad" defense makes youseem like youre 9?
Ive seen you type it in like, 4 different threads

[FrankReynolds]

ITS SUPPOSED TO BE LUCK BASED, 100% chance of getting at least platinum KI + boss drops up to 2 pieces of gear. JUst suck it up and deal with it.

You suck. You just got lucky. You mad.

[Natenn]

You suck. You just got lucky. You mad.

you dont know me, this statement is invalid. Like i said: its supposed to be luck based, reward rate oh completion is 100%, they will not change it. Most that'll happen is they raise cap on # minimum/max floor jump. and yes made it to F100 with only 12 jumps once, ONCE, out of 13 or so runs total, lots of 7 8 & 9 floor jumps.

Also, you are the 1 who is mad.

[Zerich]

you dont know me, this statement is invalid. Like i said: its supposed to be luck based, reward rate oh completion is 100%, they will not change it. Most that'll happen is they raise cap on # minimum/max floor jump. and yes made it to F100 with only 12 jumps once, ONCE, out of 13 or so runs total, lots of 7 8 & 9 floor jumps.

Also, you are the 1 who is mad.

natenn, you slay me.
/dead

[Daniel_Hatcher]

ITS SUPPOSED TO BE LUCK BASED, 100% chance of getting at least platinum KI + boss drops up to 2 pieces of gear. JUst suck it up and deal with it.

SE gets wet for customers like you.

[Natenn]

If they did there would be real HNM, not instanced content for aby boomers.

[wish12oz]

I did some neo nyzul last night, theres new people in my LS and they want the gear so we took 3 people who never did nyzul before into the event and did it with 5 people. Four runs, 14 lamp floors, not a single ordered lamp floor. Remember before when I talked about how you don't get order lamps that often? Ya.... Also, we made it to floor 83~ repeatedly but never won. This is with 5 people, 3 of them having never done any nyzul before. In a few more runs we'll get our win rate up and be able to easily breeze through the event with a 20-30% win rate. Want to watch us not cheat and win? Watch my stream, I broadcast the whole thing:
http://www.twitch.tv/wish12oz

I got pretty much all the bugs worked out of streaming now, so the FPS is actually decent when I stream now, as opposed to before when it would stutter a lot.

[Dragoy]

Seeing as without .dat swaps they're random, and have a stupid delay on a failure it's hardly capable of having "people knowing how to do them" unless you're referring to same lamp in which case a monkey could get that.

http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/eMbwEAPc2aU/hqdefault.jpg


I did some neo nyzul last night

I actually watched some of that 'on the background'.
Was that three (3) 'register code' lamps on that one run? Hilarious!
Very nice luck indeed. :]

Do share!

Also, have you always been able to move during weapon-skills and other such ability animations? ^^;

[wish12oz]

Also, have you always been able to move during weapon-skills and other such ability animations? ^^;

Gear swap and you get stuck a little bit, if you remove the entire animation by swapping gear it goes away completely.

[saevel]

Well here's an example of "skill" and "suck less".

20 jumps to 100, 90s left and ....

WS RESTRICTED!!!

We timed out with it at 46%

Yeah F U SE.

[Dragoy]

Gear swap and you get stuck a little bit, if you remove the entire animation by swapping gear it goes away completely.

Yeah, I've noticed, and actually use that to my advantage though it doesn't always 'just work', heh.
But you didn't 'blink' on those occasions I speak of. ^^

I do vaguely remember there was something else to it, how to do it like that, without 'hax' but I can't remember...

Either way, meant to say nice job.
Not that I expected anything less.

[MarkovChain]

It's a windower feature. They also use JA delay 0 stuff.

[Arcon]

Yeah, I've noticed, and actually use that to my advantage though it doesn't always 'just work', heh.

It never works. You can't blink the WS or dance animations, only the standard animations for job abilities and magic.


It's a windower feature.

It's not.

[wish12oz]

You can't blink the WS or dance animations

lol.... you can remove any animation by changing gear [censored]

Edit, guess I shouldnt say that second part.

[Byrth]

You can't remove dances or WS animations by changing gear.

You can change both by messing with their .dats, but it's obvious if you run during Dances or while WSing and people have been GMed/temp banned for it. For a while my FFXI install was corrupted and Exenterator's animation wouldn't work at all. It just showed up as damage in my log until I reinstalled.

[Dragoy]

It never works. You can't blink the WS or dance animations, only the standard animations for job abilities and magic.

Ah, yeah, thought so.

In my case I was referring to job abilities indeed, like Meditate and Flee, which is probably how I first noticed it (obvious reasons for the gear change on Samurai, and Rogue's Poulaines for the extra flee duration ho ho ho!).

Whatever it is for dancing and such, the Campaign NPCs use it lots!
That's where I now remember seeing it before. Thought it was familiar, now I know for sure!

[Daniel_Hatcher]

It's a windower feature. They also use JA delay 0 stuff.

That's a Clipper feature.

[saevel]

In addendum to my previous post.

16 jumps to 100, got the 5min warning right as we were going up from floor 98. Dead boss and T.hands are now mine, also won lot on Nares feet.

Please tell me how this is a "skill based event"? I can see how there is some skill involved, we failed our first 5 runs while trying to get used to communication with each other and get a feel for it. After that initial period overcoming the steep learning curve it ends up being a rather simple event.

This is entirely luck based, not only the number of floor jumps, but also the type of floor and the stupid pathos it inflicts you with.

[MarkovChain]

No seeing through wall or modding ? That's the only thing I'm intersted in. I'm ok if cheat slighly increase the success at an invent but I'm not ok when it suddenly makes it impossible. My only choice is F80 attempts.

[Mirage]

Why is it supposed to be luck based, Natenn?

If it's supposed to be luck based, why doesn't the game just /random us all at the start of nyzul

1-300: you get nothing.
301-950: you get some mediocre shit
951-999: you get something good.

Thank you for playing and try again tomorrow!

[Dreamin]

Why is it supposed to be luck based, Natenn?

If it's supposed to be luck based, why doesn't the game just /random us all at the start of nyzul

1-300: you get nothing.
301-950: you get some mediocre shit
951-999: you get something good.

Thank you for playing and try again tomorrow!

Because that would only be 1min event vs a 30min event.

This is a LUCK based time sink event.

[FrankReynolds]

Because that would only be 1min event vs a 30min event.

This is a LUCK based time sink event.

Lol, they can fix that by just leaving you stuck at the gate for 30 minutes. :P

[Renromix]

I have a question do you guys think jp players cheats too?

[Demon6324236]

I have a question do you guys think jp players cheats too?

Hmm~ I would have to say probably, never know. I mean they told JPs about the /fume thing with VW, can see them tellin the JPs a secret way to do NNI better or easier that our reps forgot to tell us as well.

[Mirage]

My guess would be "yes". But who knows, right.

[saevel]

I have a question do you guys think jp players cheats too?

Most definitely without a doubt.

In all probability there are more TPA's being used amongst that group then the NA / EU groups combined. Due only to how much better they communicate between each other. *cough* *cough* "If you don't know about it then you don't deserve the gear" type mentality being what it is.

[Lojinxx]

If SE would consider changing the timer in the starting room and reprogramming the lamps to get rid of that horrible lag after u successfully complete them that would be fantastic. Otherwise, keep up the good work.

Also, to all you people bitching, it seems like many of you have only done it a few times or do shout groups. It just sounds that way by the knowledge level most of you have about the event. You really need to have a static and do the event every week together for at least a month before u develop the amount of coordination it takes to efficiently navigate nyzul uncharted. Also, the amount of luck required with jumps is vital.

[FrankReynolds]

I have a question do you guys think jp players cheats too?

Yes. they are humans just like us.

[Natenn]

Because that would only be 1min event vs a 30min event.

This is a LUCK based time sink event.

Indeed it is.

[Llana_Virren]

Fixed your statement to reflect reality.

You meant to say that you broke my statement to reflect your delusion, right?
Don't change people's remarks; either quote them or do not quote them. Changing a quote is not only rude, but it shows that you do not have the basic understanding of quotation or journalistic integrity.

[wish12oz]

You meant to say that you broke my statement to reflect your delusion, right?
Don't change people's remarks; either quote them or do not quote them. Changing a quote is not only rude, but it shows that you do not have the basic understanding of quotation or journalistic integrity.

Well, maybe if you bothered to read what you were paraphrasing, I wouldn't of had to correct it. Your "journalistic integrity" is lacking.



This is a LUCK based time sink event.

Get better at the game and you require less luck to win. So much so that the event actually becomes doable, and finishable inside 2 months.

[Demon6324236]

More skill=Less luck, but luck is luck, and luck is bad.

[detlef]

More skill=Less luck, but luck is luck, and luck is bad.Well now, I think you'll want to rephrase that. Are you saying you luck can't play a factor in anything? After all, everything in the game is luck.

[Demon6324236]

Well now, I think you'll want to rephrase that. Are you saying you luck can't play a factor in anything? After all, everything in the game is luck.

What I mean is simply luck in events like this with the entire event based on luck it is bad. VW is highly luck reliant in the fact every drop can be as random as giving you a 1% drop on your 1st kill or you go 0/1000 and quit. NNI is not as bad in its luck at drops however it is similar in the fact luck plays a large part. As I have said before, floor, contents of floors, objective of floor, layout of floor, pathos, these are all things random when you move around NNI, and they can all hurt you if they are unlucky.

[detlef]

But it's not entirely luck. If you go with terrible players, you won't win no matter how lucky you get.

[wish12oz]

But it's not entirely luck. If you go with terrible players, you won't win no matter how lucky you get.

It would be funny if they switched this event to entirely being based on skill, so I could watch all of the haters still not try to do it and do nothing but complain about it. （´・ω・｀）
The simple truth is that if you try doing this event, and youre not terrible at FFXI, and you can find 5 other people who are not terrible at FFXI, you will win, and you will get all the gear.

[Demon6324236]

The same can be said of killing VWNMs, if you have a VW party and don't suck you can kill the NMs with ease, luck can screw you no matter your skill however with bad procs. Fight Kalasutrax where 5/7 NQ procs are jobs you don't have. 2/3 HQs are procs you don't have. And EV is Ice WHM. You can be skilled, but chances are you are going to die no matter what you do. There is a ratio between luck and skill, with most groups it seems to be 70%Luck/30%Skill how they talk, by my experience, its about 50%/50%. You sound as though it is 20%/80%, very different from everyone here. More skill you have less luck you need, luck will always matter in a way though because there are completely horrid floors, and terrible, terrible jumps.

[detlef]

Luckily you can /fume your EV ice whm away now eh? Also, I don't see how it's relevant to Nyzul.

Blame bad floors all you want. They suck, after all. Hate on gears, hate on pathos. We all hate them. But don't blame bad jumps. Bad jumps even out. One day you get terrible jumps. The next day you get incredible jumps. Have you done the event for any extended period of time? You should judge your run based on how many floors you cleared, not whether you hit 100. The more floors you clear, the more successful you'll be over time.

Luck is still a big factor of course. But one day, the gods will smile on you and it will all come together. You just have to keep at it so you can be there to answer the call when they do.

[Demon6324236]

Luckily you can /fume your EV ice whm away now eh? Also, I don't see how it's relevant to Nyzul.

Blame bad floors all you want. They suck, after all. Hate on gears, hate on pathos. We all hate them. But don't blame bad jumps. Bad jumps even out. One day you get terrible jumps. The next day you get incredible jumps. Have you done the event for any extended period of time? You should judge your run based on how many floors you cleared, not whether you hit 100. The more floors you clear, the more successful you'll be over time.

Luck is still a big factor of course. But one day, the gods will smile on you and it will all come together. You just have to keep at it so you can be there to answer the call when they do.

I was using the VW thing as an example of something else where you can be skilled, but luck can still kill you and leave you with nothing.

I know jumps even out somewhat, point is there are many things luck based in it, not just 1 or 2 but the entire thing from start to finish is influenced by luck at every turn. In my runs I have done of NNI best I have done is floor 97 with my old static, my new static only has done 2 runs so far only person with previous experience being me and we hit 67 on the 2nd go which I think is fairly good seeing as there was 1 person in the group with an Emp and great gear, everyone else being in +1/2 with AH or Abyssea weapons.

I don't plan on giving up the event because if I did would just mean I wasted my time up till then, same thing if I gave up with anything else, stop half way on something and you only wasted your time getting that far, make it to the end and at least you completed it.

[detlef]

What setup are you using?

[Demon6324236]

Old static was DRK, DRK, THF, SAM, SCH, SCH, I think. New one is DRK, WAR, SAM, BLU, SCH, SCH.

[saevel]

NNI is 80/20 for luck / skill. The only "skill" involved is the harsh learning (or relearning) period where you get comfortable with communication and boss / floor types. After that there is absolutely nothing skill will do for you anymore, its down to pure jumps, floor layout and objectives. 5 order lamps will kill your run dead unless your using secret ninja techniques. WS restriction on a boss floor or any floor other then lamps can kill your run. And there is nothing you can do about either of those.

[Natenn]

Best set up is 4 2hand DD with 99 relics(Not DRG), or Emp/Mythic, and 2 SCH.

[saevel]

Best set up is 4 2hand DD with 99 relics(Not DRG), or Emp/Mythic, and 2 SCH.

I'm breaking with my policy of not replying to blatant trolls. Seeing as this post wasn't a troll attempt then it's fair to reply.

What you said it horribly wrong, damage isn't nearly as big an issue as people make it out to be. It's communication and quick decision making skills that will win you (or secret ninja techniques) the run.

Our setup originally was

Rag DRK (me)
Rag DRK
Ukon WAR
DRG (level 99 AH lance)
SCH (good gear, not 500 enhancing though)
SCH (not that great gear, sat at the runic lamp to go up)

And we would struggle, not from lack of damage but from the stupid stuff SE would throw at you. Running around floors looking for lamps or singleing out the the monsters on special family floors gets you tons of adds that leech time, or with a random NM or two can actually kill your DD's. So we reformulated our strategy a bit, now our group is

Rag DRK
Almace BLU/WAR (me)
DRG (same as earlier)
Ukkon WAR
SCH
SCH

And our runs suddenly got much smoother. Myself having access to a good sang blade build along with my CDC set, physical spells and the occasional dream flower (pesky adds) actually sped up our event and raised our clear rate. BLU spells are not subject to WS restriction and having multiple sources of damage is a god send for flan, jelly and NM floors.

NNI is not a zerg event, throwing more damage will not get you more wins. Most of the monsters are trash EP-DC's, not IT+ juggernauts. Even the floor 80/100 boss's die ridiculously fast. Now don't bring a party of gimps or weak players, if they aren't at an above average gear level then their not going to be contributing much. You can't carry people through NNI, but you don't need relic DRG/WAR/SAM x 4 onry!! to win either. The only jobs I would think are absolutely restricted are PUP, SMN and the various support mages (sorry this event is SCH x 2 or bust, embrava is absolutely required). Otherwise SAM/WAR/NIN/BLU/DRG/NIN/DRK should all work ... and possibly a well geared BST who isn't pissing around. Obviously they can't be pink NIN's or pearl BST's, need better then average gear but otherwise they'll be fine. Thought at least two purely heavy DD at a minimum.

Communication and coordination is worth more then any amount of gear, calling out the location of lamps and having people rapidly move to them, being able to quickly MGS your way past mobs to get to a lamp in the back corner, or to get to a specified family monster (while avoiding unnecessary time sinks) is essential. You'll spend more time moving around then you do fighting.

[Renromix]

I see alot of player comes with kikugosaku widowmaker and most ppl dont wana spend gil to buy powder boots they dont have set of temp items and they dont listen most like "dont tell me what to do" type of ppl

[Neisan_Quetz]

You can't downplay the 'skill' involved then say perle/pink dds aren't winning it no matter how hard they try. Having skilled and well geared players is going to raise your chances of winning due to clearing kill all/specified floors faster. It simply doesn't help with lamps/pathos.

[saevel]

You can't downplay the skill involved then say perle/pink dds aren't winning it no matter how hard they try. Having skilled and well geared players is going to raise your chances of winning due to clearing kill all/specified floors faster. It simply doesn't help with lamps/pathos.

You made the classic mistake of confusing "skill" with "gear". An idiot with an augmented HQ Adaberk and a 99 Rag is still an idiot and will cause you to fail. You also made both straw-man and false dichotomy fallacies. Stop trolling for confrontation.

I never said there wasn't "any" skill, only that there isn't much skill once your past the initial learning curve. Once you get moving through floors down it's all luck. Moving through floors isn't hard, its just learning which NM is which and how to rapidly scan through mobs to determine the specified enemy / leader / family. Learning how to quickly move through rooms and identify lamps and call them out. Of course lamps in general suck, an 5-lamp order floor will pretty much instantly sink your 100 run (without ninja techniques).

I also said that you don't need extreme damage, aka 4 super relic DD's. The four melee's you do bring must be well geared as there is a damage threshold you must meet. Going beyond that won't help you much as your bottleneck becomes movement and not damage. See my above example, going from a Rag DRK to a Almace BLU is a step down in raw damage power. The additional utility and multiple damage types gained by doing that was worth more then the loss in raw damage. Bringing along a DRG is less pure damage then another DRK / WAR / MNK, yet it also brings a damage type that neither DRK nor WAR tend to have, piercing. Your single biggest damage block will be the multitude of flans and jelly's you end up having to fight. Those are the mobs that will slow your DRK's, MNKs and WAR's down but a DRG (or any piercing melee) tears them apart. Thus right when your two heaviest DD's lose their offensive edge, your lessor DD suddenly gains it which results in faster kills. Of course the damage increase from a 5/5 Angon with augmented relic +2 isn't to be trifled with on the NMs. That evil PDT flan everyone hates, our WAR chunks a 5/5 hawk with augmented +2 relic right as we engage, it dies within 10 ~ 15 seconds (depending on our TP).

Its those things that people need to learn to do. Adjust your tactics based on whatever F8cked up sh!t that SE throws at you.

[Neisan_Quetz]

No, I didn't really. Knowing how to gear oneself is apart of skill. It doesn't matter how much you believe in happiness and rainbows, you still acknowledge subpar dds are not clearing nyzul at all.

How is finishing the objective faster not helping... There is movespeed gear/powder boots/sprinter's for increased speed and many strats tend to leave a sch at rune or have one person with movespeed+powder on the ready anyway.

Drg still won't be very useful or desired for Nyzul, nor will Nin. Sam can bring piercing if you're that adamant about bringing it.

Both mnk and war can bypass the damage resistance of slimes.

EDIT: Please post this list of common monsters in nyzul weak to piercing that won't be felled in a matter of seconds from slashing damage. There isn't anything particularly special about piercing that warrants having to bring it.

[Fupafighter]

I think Pup can contribute about the same as a mnk lol. Don't go draggin them down haha. Pup destroy fodder mobs alot faster than mnk. I use both with all the best gear except thaumas, and pup destroys.

[Waldrich]

#1: Create a option to automatically go "up ??? after an objective is completed" that we can "turn off/on", then we can turn off when we're so close to a Boss floor. then this will become "the time" wherein we'll need to go back to Rune to active it. (Sprinter's drink)

#2: Remove order/same time lamps and their horrid 30sec cooldown.

#3: wake up Square Enix; we all (Company + players) need more players. Neo Nyzul is the kind of event that will make people take a break to wait for new gears. /waitforseekersofadoulin type of thing.

This is my input, we really need to do with 6 ppl and not with 5 :)

[Ophannus]

DRG is actually amazing in Neo Nyzul. I'm 15/15 on the gear and I went exclusively DRG. Jumps for instant TP, Stardiver does like 2.5-3k+ to most mobs, Angon is amazingly useful for Leaders or Bosses, can restoring breath for 1k-1.5k instantly when melees are in trouble and the SCH is out of range or silenced, Smiting Breath does almost 2k to Flans if you have Empathy/EXP bonus on the Wyvern, close to 3k with Deep Breathing, Ancient Circle rocks for Wyvern/Puk/Dahak floors, can Super Jump over Tribulation/Boss's Stun moves/Amnesia so when you land you'll be the only non-impaired DD to either finish the mob off or use a Cleric's Drink. Did I mention the Wyvern has pretty decent DPS on DC mobs? Hien was hitting for 100-120 to most mobs.

[Ophannus]

I advocate 3 two handers, 2 schs and a BLU. BLU is really useful for the following reasons:

1) With Almace they pull off 2-3k CDCs easy.
2) Dream Flower gears/adds on lamp floors or NMs that might be problematic(Waraxe Beak) without making the SCH have to shift Addendums(annoying/waste of strategem if Enlightenment isn't up)
3) Self SC CDC>Amorphic is like 6-7k burst of damage.
4) CA QC does like 4k
5) BLU can run up to a cluster of mobs and CA/Efflux Whirl of Rage for 2.5k aoe+long stun.
6) Sudden Lunge is like a 12 second stun, amazing for Soulflayers/Chariots
7) Delta Thrust's -10TP/tick plague is amazing for leaders/bosses
8) While other DDs are hitting for 80 and doing 500 dmg ws to Cardamom Custard, BLU can spam 4-5k Requiescats.
9) Can oneshot most trash mobs with a Heavy Strike or a few swings+Delta Thrust.
10) Winds of Promyvion is indispensable, 2 second cast AoE Erase for almost no MP, saves the SCH strategems. Amazing for removing Soulflayer's Bio or Chariot's Bindga.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I can't even begin on how wrong some of those statements are.

[Ica]

I can't even begin on how wrong some of those statements are.

Care to elaborate which?

[Ophannus]

Seeing as I've been doing Neo Nyzul for about 3 months for my LS and we always go with BLU I can attest to each and every one of those being true. BLU damage on DC mobs is outrageous. 2k CDC into 3k CAflux Amorphic into 3k Darkness is just rape against Frogs/Chariots. Dream Flower is amazing on lamp floors where you want to just sleep a cluster of mobs without wasting time to kill them, for SCH to do that they have to switch from Add:White to Add:Dark and then use Manifestation(total loss of 3 strategems, Add:black(1), manifestation(1), changing back to add white(1)) BLU is self sufficient with Sanguine Blade, and Requiescat is really the best for Mousses which Catastrophe/Ukko's Fury does like 800-1kish on but Req does over 2k against. We usually leave the Mousses to the BLU. And cardamom custard, the one NM that can cripple your group's time if not prepared, BLU makes short work of. We go with DRK DRG BLU SCH SCH WAR and though the DRK has Twilight Scythe, it's not enough since his WS is gimp against that NM. The BLU will pop a fanatics(since Amorphic Scythe can do well over 2k and kill the BLU) and spam Requiescats for 4-5k(Cardamom custard has massive resistance (75-80%) against blunt/slashing/piercing but for some reason requiescat/twilight scythe get a damage bonus against it, so you'll see Twilight Scythe hitting for 500-600 and Req hitting for 5kish.

[Arcon]

Care to elaborate which?

Some of the statements were a wee bit over advertised, but all in all Ophannus is correct. BLU is a very useful addition to a Nyzul team. The damage is nowhere near the same as for heavy DDs, but still more than enough for most of the trash mobs along the way. Combine that with its general usefulness and the overall lower impact of kill speed in the event itself (as most of the time sinks are not kill speed but running) and BLU is a very useful job for it. I've done all my successful runs with a BLU, though, so I may be biased in that regard. Then again, that could be taken as a hint towards its usefulness.

[saevel]

I advocate 3 two handers, 2 schs and a BLU. BLU is really useful for the following reasons:

1) With Almace they pull off 2-3k CDCs easy.
2) Dream Flower gears/adds on lamp floors or NMs that might be problematic(Waraxe Beak) without making the SCH have to shift Addendums(annoying/waste of strategem if Enlightenment isn't up)
3) Self SC CDC>Amorphic is like 6-7k burst of damage.
4) CA QC does like 4k
5) BLU can run up to a cluster of mobs and CA/Efflux Whirl of Rage for 2.5k aoe+long stun.
6) Sudden Lunge is like a 12 second stun, amazing for Soulflayers/Chariots
7) Delta Thrust's -10TP/tick plague is amazing for leaders/bosses
8) While other DDs are hitting for 80 and doing 500 dmg ws to Cardamom Custard, BLU can spam 4-5k Requiescats.
9) Can oneshot most trash mobs with a Heavy Strike or a few swings+Delta Thrust.
10) Winds of Promyvion is indispensable, 2 second cast AoE Erase for almost no MP, saves the SCH strategems. Amazing for removing Soulflayer's Bio or Chariot's Bindga.

Although his numbers are a bit overblown, in general these are valid reasons.

BLU/WAR with

DW III
5% TA
MAB I (Dream Flower + 1 pt)
Store TP
Auto Refresh (WoP + A.Burst)
Store TP I (SL + 1 pt)
Self Haste / Refresh and M.Fruit set (all emergency use spells)

Then all the goodies from /WAR and some Bison Steak. Makes for a powerful DD on trash mobs and a good DD on the boss's. BLU's strength is that it destroys trash mobs and can on demand put out extremely high spike damage, though at the expensive of blowing their MP. That spike damage has saved us on "WS Restricted" floors and on really stupid enemy leaders / boss's. SL's stun effect lasts a ridiculous amount of time and makes many NM's much easier to deal with.

Another interesting note is Diffusion Haste during initial embrava. Regardless of what the blowhards like to say, putting up haste is a PITA for SCH's, the spell has a long cast / recast and melees do not stand still. I found that doing an aoe diffusion wail when their doing their embrava allows everyone to immediately take off. Let the SCH's know when it's got 1min left and they'll start cycling Perp haste regularly on our four members without needing to blow a ton of stratagems for cast / recast down. It's really just a time saver. 6 Min aoe haste at 5/5, 7:15 aoe haste at 5/5 with augmented relic feet. Cast nearly instantly and during the time when everyone is together and the SCH is doing embrava.

[saevel]

The damage is nowhere near the same as for heavy DDs, but still more than enough for most of the trash mobs along the way.

I can argue against that. On anything T or less a BLU/WAR with CDC will hang with the big guys. Its only on VT+ when they leave the BLU behind. Seeing as NNI is populated almost entirely with DC mobs, that puts BLU near the big guns for most of the run, with the heavy guys blowing the boss's apart.

Of course this assumes your BLU's actually know what their doing and have decent gear sets.

[Kitkat]

Have to back the utility of blu also (and the fact that it was slightly overblown in output, but not laughably so). Where a Restricted WS floor will leave your 2handers at a disadvantage the blu (well geared and appropriate swapping of gear) will fill in for the lack of damage at the cost of mp, which they can then regain on other floors or by use of temp item should they get any at start. Most mobs are easily considered "trash mobs" due to conning DC with very few giving much of any trouble, but I would suggest you be sure the person playing the blu knows what is expected and is geared for it first.

[Stan64]

Platinum astrarium won't stack. Learned it the hard way!

[Demon6324236]

Platinum astrarium won't stack. Learned it the hard way!

...wow, that sucks >< lesson learned I guess.

[wish12oz]

Bumping this thread to say that I started doing Neo Nyzul for my mage mule, and to put my money where my mouth is I even live streamed it and recorded it. So now I have this awesome video from last night saved on my PC where I won 2 of the 3 runs we did without cheating. So now the question is: Will Pchan pay up? Do I need to do anything else? There were other people watching as I did it. Do I need to find an editing program and crop out like 6 hours of video so I can have the 3 nyzul runs together, then speeding them up so I can post them to youtube? (youtube has a 10 min video length max unless your videos get tons of views or something) So how about it Pchan? Wheres my marrows? Am I getting 10 instead of 5 since I won 2 in a row also?

My mage mule has also officially been inside neo nyzul 8 times now and won 3 times. But I dont really count 2 of those losses since they weren't with the people I normally go with.

[MarkovChain]

I don't see no video, also since the thread is bumped I encourage anyone to rate up nyzul related suggestion in the dev thread. Like on the first page, there is mdkuser's suggestion that has gotten 120 "likes" which is one of the most (+1) in the thread.

rate up this post : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26797-Let-Producer-Matsui-Know-How-He-Should-Catch-Up-on-2-Years!?p=352780&viewfull=1#post352780


I want 16 macro lines

I want some progression system for nyzul isle instead . Remove lamps all together and "penalities" for gear aggro

[wish12oz]

I don't see no video, also since the thread is bumped I encourage anyone to rate up nyzul related suggestion in the dev thread. Like on the first page, there is mdkuser's suggestion that has gotten 120 "likes" which is one of the most (+1) in the thread.

rate up this post : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26797-Let-Producer-Matsui-Know-How-He-Should-Catch-Up-on-2-Years!?p=352780&viewfull=1#post352780

You should of been watching my live stream, but you're saying you will give me 5 marrows after I upload the video?

EDIT, tell you what, I can stream the video right now for you if you want to watch it =3

[Llana_Virren]

Except I highlight the lamp in two or three of the runs, and even click one of them! You just havent seen those runs yet since it takes forever to crop them and stuff. You also didnt say what role was required to receive the marrows, and Im not sitting at the rune the whole time, and all lamps were same time the whole series of attempts, except 1 order, and 1 code, during all 3 runs. Keep making excuses for why you can't afford to pay what you said you would pchan.

Actually, fail2troll, if you read the thread entirely, it was said repeatedly to NOT be a pole-sitter. Of course, it was also said to "post" it, rather than stream it, but having to pay attention to details and not make up your own rules as you go along isn't really your forte.

[wish12oz]

Actually, fail2troll, if you read the thread entirely, it was said repeatedly to NOT be a pole-sitter. Of course, it was also said to "post" it, rather than stream it, but having to pay attention to details and not make up your own rules as you go along isn't really your forte.

One of the runs is already on youtube, another is uploading now, but then knowing whats going on was never your forte either!

[wish12oz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNaJxCQ1T8M&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7pA7QTGb1k&feature=plcp

Seriously. 3 runs of 3, 4 f100 wins, 5 pieces of gear for my mule. If you guys just go do the event, you can win pretty easily if you're not terrible and make the correct decisions.

I think next time I do some runs, rather than stream it, which basically forces me to use lower quality, I'm going to just record it in high quality. Then overlay it with myself talking and explaining in depth the thought process while playing and the correct way to do things.

[MarkovChain]

There is no lamp order floor in your video, which is something I asked. It's funny that an idiot known server wide to be the master of cheating is trying his best (while failing) to prove that you can win without cheating.

[wish12oz]

There is no lamp order floor in your video, which is something I asked. It's funny that an idiot known server wide to be the master of cheating is trying his best (while failing) to prove that you can win without cheating.

Ok, so let me get this straight. I posted 3 separate videos of runs of neo nyzul, all wins, all done within a 1 week time frame, all showing I'm not using anything you yourself do not use. And this is somehow me failing? Hi, I'm the one with 15/15 gear on my main, and 5/15 on my mule. You're the one who can't even get floor 80 gear.

And for the last time. Lamp order floors appear like once every 3 runs. Seriously, get over it already. They are not this huge mysterious limiting screw you over factor. They are not even something you need to care about. If you get them, just leave and start over. Only one of my wins on my mule has had an order lamp floor, and only 3 of my runs (out of 9) have even had an order lamp floor.

If you stop making excuses, and just go do the event, you will see its actually quite easy. Unless youre terrible. As for the cheating comment, you totally right, thats why I live stream myself playing the game, and post videos of myself doing Neo Nyzul on the OF, cause I cheat like crazy. CRAZY AMOUNTS YO.

[Demon6324236]

While I still think NNI is stupid on the level of luck it has in it. I will admit Wish did show videos, stop being a douche about it and admit for 1 second you got videos of what seem to be legit wins. Denying that any more is just pointless because it makes you look like your wishing you had never put up that offer, and wishing everyone had forgotten or never stepped up.

Saying that, I still disagree on the end that its not bad unless your terrible. I can tell you for a fact, good or not luck has everything to play with this event, as said in past pages, skill mitigates luck however it does not remove it! I still think the level of luck in this needs tuned down, that has not, and likely will not, change.

[saevel]

Just breezed over the vids' they were moving entirely too slow and got lucky.

[wish12oz]

skill mitigates luck however it does not remove it!

It removes it enough for it to not matter. If you watch my videos and count, we're clearing 20~ floors a run. Here's the most recent order:
1 6 14 23 29 31 37 44 53 56 58 63 70 77 84 91 96 99 100
19 floors before we won.
The first video was 22. At this type of floor clearing you would win 35-50%~ of the time according to the math. Which means it will take a month and a half to finish at most. That's pretty fast for something based on 'luck.'

Even if you only win 16-17~ floors a run, thats still 1 win per week. And I think that figure is pretty good for average players. And finishing this event in 15 weeks, is still not that bad, compared to old FFXI anyway. 4-5~ hours a week for 3-4 months for 3 very good complete sets is pretty amazing actually. Pchan use to scream about how amazing Salvage was, and Neo Nzyul has a much better effort/reward ratio than it does, he just refuses to see it.

[hiko]

And for the last time. Lamp order floors appear like once every 3 runs. Seriously, get over it already. They are not this huge mysterious limiting screw you over factor. They are not even something you need to care about. If you get them, just leave and start over. Only one of my wins on my mule has had an order lamp floor, and only 3 of my runs (out of 9) have even had an order lamp floor.

.
you're lucky with lamp. we did some old nyzul climb. got 8 order from 0 to 90(+ some code or same time), and 90-100 we had a lamp 1floor/2 (luckly only code and same time)

[Luvbunny]

So basically after 65 pages of complaints, they are pretty much refused to address this problem.... What else is new here?

[detlef]

So people are saying that Wish was lucky with lamps... That's fine, but that should mean that anybody should be able to get lucky with lamps.

[Demon6324236]

I got Heka's body on my 1st run of Akvan. That means everyone should be able to get Heka's on their 1st run of Akvan. No, luck is luck is luck, you can not predict it and you can not say everyone will get lucky all the same, doesn't work that way. In this past week I fought Hahava dualboxing my GF & PLD Mule, my Mule got the body on the 2nd kill of the 2nd run I did with her, the 4th fight of that same set, she got another, then the 1st kill of my 3rd run, my GF's character got yet another. No one else in the entire alliance got a body that day, only me, does this mean everyone could get one? Well yes, everyone could, however luck did not permit them to, if someone really wanted that body as a drop they may be there doing 100+ kills where I only did about 30 if you add up the kills between characters, and got 3 of them.

VW is luck on a lesser scale than this because this has not just random rewards, it has the entire events progression from when you go in as a massive die roll to determine what every floor is on a massive scale. I got lucky with VW a few times in my past, however I have had no such luck with NNI, not even close. If I ever start with 8~9s I end up with 2~3s, if I start at 4~5 I get that whole run, and so on. Not that you can not win with these numbers, but my groups tend not to suck so bad I think they couldn't do it if it were reasonably doable. On another note, saying you can clear 20 floors is somewhat pointless in my eyes seeing as its also what those contain that makes it a problem or not, as I said before, Soulflayer floors suck, kill all floors when they are big and spread out, suck. If you start a kill leader floor with the NM in the room right next to you, thats a great floor, takes 10~15 seconds at most.

As I said, skill mitigates luck, it does not remove it. Luck effects everything from floor jumps to what mobs are on the floor, to what your objective is. Killing 20 floors where most are fast easy floors, is nice, but saying killing 20 floors isn't so impressive when you notice it can be so simple. However you can say you only killed 14 floors with a great team, doesn't mean you suck, it means you had floors that were kill all, where the area took 2 minutes to walk from 1 side to the other, and Soulflayers were all over causing lovely para on your DDs so they take longer to kill, or got kill leader floors where its the Soulflayer NM, and it wipes your buffs, even the great Flan NM, but your WAR wasn't the 1 to find it, and instead went the other way, and takes a minute to get there to help with Tomahawk. There is much more than simply what number of floors you complete to account for, thats why I keep saying that, and you cant really tell me I'm wrong.

[saevel]

you're lucky with lamp. we did some old nyzul climb. got 8 order from 0 to 90(+ some code or same time), and 90-100 we had a lamp 1floor/2 (luckly only code and same time)

I've been doing a ton of NNI, typically you get 1 lamp floor per 8~10 jumps. Some runs they won't appear, other will have three of them.

I watched the videos and spotted a few interesting things. Either SE is being INCREDIBLY nice to wish's group and not giving them huge floors, or his/her melee's are doing "magic". Wish was moving entirely too slow to clear 16~17 floors, there is a reason he's the "lamp b!tch".

[wish12oz]

Wish was moving entirely too slow to clear 16~17 floors, there is a reason he's the "lamp b!tch".

Yo dawg, SCH mule is like a week and a half old, and I havent played a mage job seriously since RDM in 2004->2006. And I will openly admit I am effing terrible at it. I suck so bad at SCH it's not even funny. It takes me forever to notice people are dieing, find macros to cure people, use the right JAs before buffs, cast NA spells, sleep things, learn regen duration timing to recast it properly, etc. I can personally improve a ton, and that would greatly help my groups kill speed and increase our floor count. So I have been bringing my SCH to different stuff, like VW and whatever I see shouts for, to try and get use to playing it, but man, it's tough learning to do something new.

As far as luck goes, I had one run that seriously went awesome. 2 free floors, tons of good floor jumps, took us 15~ minutes to hit 85, then every single floor jump we got for second half of the run was 2-3 floors. hit 96 with 3~ min left, hit 98 with 2 minutes left, and it was the most massive floor I ever seen, and it was kill all. So we timed out. But you know what? Who cares. Our win rate is still 40-50%, which means we will lose half of them. This is expected.

When I say things like, a normal group should expect to clear 16-17 floors on average, and will win once a week, that means you will lose 6x in a week, due to 'bad luck' or whatever you want it call it. I call it expected, and not something to worry about. The number of floors on average your group can clear in a run is the only determining factor in how long it will take you to progress all the way through and get all 15 pieces of gear, if you want them. Because I go into the zone only expecting to win 30-50% of them, I don't find it surprising when I get completely screwed over half the time and time out on 95+.

[wish12oz]

Day before yesterday I did 2 neo nyzul runs, won one of them. Today did 3 more, won one of them. I'll be posting a new video of new runs on my youtube later tonight or, more likely, tomorrow and come back and post a link here too. The point of this post is to say that in 2~ weeks I have managed to acquire every piece of gear from this event my mule needs, while people like Pchan complain that it's to hard and impossible to win and wait for SE to "fix" the event. Good luck to the rest of you with finishing this event, if you want any tips feel free to ask.

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/18be6a7f0952af69310b4d0ac472e733.png

Edit: Just for refference- 7 wins, and only 1 win had an order lamp floor. lol

[wish12oz]

Part 1: http://youtu.be/zfSsZS60DjI
Part 2: http://youtu.be/4Pd4FDemLOM

This new video even has sound! Totally managed to not mess up the sound while editing this time. This run we only did 18 floors total, which isn't bad, but we only had like 1 minute left after we won, lol.

[Bojack]

The problem is with the 'easy' atmosphere Abyssea created. After the Abyssea Era people don't want to wait any longer than they have to to get what they want and that includes cheating to get it done faster if necessary. Not to mention the fact that after Abyssea it is likely that the majority of players has a job at 99 that can wear each of the NNI sets. So now you have people that want all 15 pieces who just got done with the ease of Abyssea being able to finish things in days. They don't want to wait 5 or 6 months getting 1 piece of gear every week or2 and they will cheat to make sure they get it all much faster.

[Phogg]

The problem is with the 'easy' atmosphere Abyssea created. After the Abyssea Era people don't want to wait any longer than they have to to get what they want and that includes cheating to get it done faster if necessary. Not to mention the fact that after Abyssea it is likely that the majority of players has a job at 99 that can wear each of the NNI sets. So now you have people that want all 15 pieces who just got done with the ease of Abyssea being able to finish things in days. They don't want to wait 5 or 6 months getting 1 piece of gear every week or2 and they will cheat to make sure they get it all much faster.

Because nobody cheated before abyssea......

[Demon6324236]

Abyssea simply added a better Reward/Effort ratio, now that it has passed people want to see more than the same since we saw that SE is not completely unable to do a good amount of rewards for effort. I am sorry to tell you but I don't find it fun or enjoyable, to do the same thing over and over again, without reward, or progress. NNI is not progressive, its luck, plain and simple. Each run I can get lucky, or unlucky, I get nothing toward a reward, if I do, its 1/25th of a single piece of gear a day. I see 1 piece of gear for a month of work/time, as a bad reward/effort ratio.

[saevel]

Abyssea simply added a better Reward/Effort ratio, now that it has passed people want to see more than the same since we saw that SE is not completely unable to do a good amount of rewards for effort. I am sorry to tell you but I don't find it fun or enjoyable, to do the same thing over and over again, without reward, or progress. NNI is not progressive, its luck, plain and simple. Each run I can get lucky, or unlucky, I get nothing toward a reward, if I do, its 1/25th of a single piece of gear a day. I see 1 piece of gear for a month of work/time, as a bad reward/effort ratio.


It's not so much progress as goal / game style. FFXI was designed in 2001~2002, people need to keep this in mind. The big MMO at the time was EQ and trust me, EQ SUCKED for effort / reward ratios. Just leveling to cap was considered an epic accomplishment on pre-abyssea Relic acquisition level. The game's primary content was focused on you leveling your character and their associated skills. It was more a social activity then a video game. FFXI was modeled more in this manor, that was Tanaka's vision.

Then Blizzzard released WoW and showed everyone that you don't need to be a social / grind focused game to be successful. Blizzard combined elements of FPS / Action Adventure games into MMO RPG character building. It made the game much more interactive, your primary source of fun game in running around killing murgs for their shinys. Leveling / skilling become something you did to get to the "real" fun.

That is what abyssea was to FFXI and why Tanaka hated it so much. The gear acquisition rate is a side effect of making battle focused interactive content. Abyssea wasn't about story or social interactions, it was about killing murgs for their shinys and getting enough shinys to allow you to kill faster to get even more shinys. That is why there is a portion of the community that absolutely hates Abyssea, their wanting a more social old-fashioned MMO experience while the rest of us want a more battle for rewards / goals focused MMO experienced. The new guy seems to be more of the later crowd and I'm thankful for it.

[wish12oz]

NNI is not progressive, its luck, plain and simple. Each run I can get lucky, or unlucky, I get nothing toward a reward, if I do, its 1/25th of a single piece of gear a day. I see 1 piece of gear for a month of work/time, as a bad reward/effort ratio.

It took me 2 weeks to finish Neo Nyzul for my mule. If you're not bad at FFXI, the event doesn't revolve around luck, and you finish it rather quickly. Getting 1 piece of gear a month is just pathetic. Neo Nyzul has an amazing effort to reward ratio. Two weeks, 10-15~ hours, 8 awesome pieces of gear. How is that even remotely bad for FFXI or any other MMO? I have said this repeatedly, and now demonstrated it in video repeatedly. Now stop calling it luck.

[Demon6324236]

It took me 2 weeks to finish Neo Nyzul for my mule. If you're not bad at FFXI, the event doesn't revolve around luck, and you finish it rather quickly. Getting 1 piece of gear a month is just pathetic. Neo Nyzul has an amazing effort to reward ratio. Two weeks, 10-15~ hours, 8 awesome pieces of gear. How is that even remotely bad for FFXI or any other MMO? I have said this repeatedly, and now demonstrated it in video repeatedly. Now stop calling it luck.

Not going to stop calling it luck when every bit of it yells luck in your face and skill simply mitigates it. You cant say that NNI isn't luck based on a level, because everything in the event is random from when you start. Floor jumps, objectives, mobs, layouts, pathos, size of floor, gears, all are nice and unpredictable. The amount of preparation, and the skill/communication of players, makes a dent in the luck factor, however it doesn't stop it, bad jumps, floors, and pathos, will always be the cause of losses given they are bad enough. Skilled group can go 20 jumps of 4 on average, and lose, other group can go do 15 jumps of 7 on average, reach floor 100, but WS pathos and 1 minute remaining isn't quite enough to win.

In either case the month long for 1 piece is off of the idea of doing 25 runs of floor 80 for a single 100 piece, which is much to long. Doing that is the only progressive style of rewards in NNI, as doing that is the only way you are nearly guaranteed some progress to getting a piece of gear, however if you lose trying to get to 100, there is no progress, only a loss, and when you try 100 more times, if you still don't make it to 100, there is still no more or less progress for a piece of gear.

Abyssea had progression for everything you did, Emps being a good example being that it always gave 1 item, with a chance at 2, you never killed a NM for an Emp and got nothing for it. This event is much more limiting on time, and much less rewarding for effort, as if you do not go all the way, you either wait a month for 1 piece of gear or you get nothing at all for attempting to make it to 100, and failing.

[Cymmina]

It's not so much progress as goal / game style. FFXI was designed in 2001~2002, people need to keep this in mind. The big MMO at the time was EQ and trust me, EQ SUCKED for effort / reward ratios. Just leveling to cap was considered an epic accomplishment on pre-abyssea Relic acquisition level. The game's primary content was focused on you leveling your character and their associated skills. It was more a social activity then a video game. FFXI was modeled more in this manor, that was Tanaka's vision.

Because EQ was totally the only MMOG on the market at the time? If you ask me, FFXI was designed by someone who had the concept of MMOGs described to them and they went ahead and made one based off of that.


It took me 2 weeks to finish Neo Nyzul for my mule. If you're not bad at FFXI, the event doesn't revolve around luck, and you finish it rather quickly. Getting 1 piece of gear a month is just pathetic. Neo Nyzul has an amazing effort to reward ratio. Two weeks, 10-15~ hours, 8 awesome pieces of gear. How is that even remotely bad for FFXI or any other MMO? I have said this repeatedly, and now demonstrated it in video repeatedly. Now stop calling it luck.

Good for your mule? The only videos I've seen you post were from the perspective of a character that mills a round at the start, who's only job is to cast buffs and use the Transfer. I suppose your idea of how easy it is would be pretty skewed if you're doing the easy job.

I don't know how you can call a system that can potentially give you 6 2-floor jumps in a single run anything but luck based. We had such a run just last week with a few 3-floor jumps thrown in for good measure. Guess what? We didn't win.

People who cheat their asses off don't even have a 100% win rate.

They clearly didn't intend for people to win that often, otherwise they wouldn't have given you a guaranteed item of your choice for winning.

[wish12oz]

LUCK LUCK LUCK LUCK LUCK the fact that I cant win isn't my fault because this event is all LUCK LUCK LUCK LUCK LUCK

This is all I see when I read your posts.
Math says if you clear XX number of floors you win X% of the time. That's how this event works. Suck less, get a higher floor clear average, finish the event faster. If anything this event is skill and gear driven.



Good for your mule? The only videos I've seen you post were from the perspective of a character that mills a round at the start, who's only job is to cast buffs and use the Transfer.




Part 1: http://youtu.be/zfSsZS60DjI
Part 2: http://youtu.be/4Pd4FDemLOM

Look more, I posted 4 or 5 different runs, this one being the best since I finally managed to learn movie maker enough to not delete the audio and cut videos correctly, and its not sped up, and blah blah blah. I just suggest watching this one.

[Demon6324236]

This is all I see when I read your posts.
Math says if you clear XX number of floors you win X% of the time. That's how this event works. Suck less, get a higher floor clear average, finish the event faster. If anything this event is skill and gear driven.

People go 1/1 on bodies in VW, others go 1/1000 on bodies in VW, % does not always mean it will definitely happen that much. You can read what you want, I know what the event is, its common sense.

I myself haven't done NNI recently because I am making a new static with better people, and have been taking the time to make sure we have the right gear to get it done as best we can. In either case it has nothing to do with my complaint, or statement on what it is, I simply tell it as I see it, and sorry, but when everything from start to finish is a roll of a die, luck is involved.

As I said, skill & gear mitigate the luck, but a group of skilled and geared players can still average 4 floor jumps, in a 20 jump run, and lose. The same with that group that jumps only 15 times, hits floor 100, and then gets WS Pathos, with only 1 minute or less remaining and ends up timing out. Its luck, good or bad, either way, luck.

[Nawesemo]

.......... Yeah, this thread wreaks of spite....


Co.grats on the clears.

[wish12oz]

People go 1/1 on bodies in VW, others go 1/1000 on bodies in VW, % does not always mean it will definitely happen that much. You can read what you want, I know what the event is, its common sense.

There's nothing you can do to directly change the drop rate in VW and make it drop what you want 100% of the time. The difference with Neo Nyzul is that once you win, you get the item you want.

If there was an option in VW like, kill this mob in under 2 minutes and everyone gets a drop of their choice, it would be skill based just like Neo Nyzul is.


I myself haven't done NNI recently because I am making a new static with better people, and have been taking the time to make sure we have the right gear to get it done as best we can. In either case it has nothing to do with my complaint, or statement on what it is, I simply tell it as I see it, and sorry, but when everything from start to finish is a roll of a die, luck is involved.

Luck is not involved when you look at the big picture. If you can clear 20 floors a run, that means you will win 40%~ and lose 60%~ It's not luck that you do 100 runs you will have won around 40 and lost around 60. Luck would be if you won 60 or lost 80. Unfortunately for you that doesn't happen. It's expected that you lose 60% of the runs. So it's not luck that keeps you from winning every single run, it's the expected result. Expected results are not luck.

However, if you gear better, bring better jobs, work better as a team with your group, use voice chat, etc. You can directly impact the amount of time it takes to finish this event by substantially increasing your average # of floor clears per run, which increases your win percentage. No amount of luck in the world would give a group of people who clear 15 floors/run my groups win rate when we're in the 22~ range.


As I said, skill & gear mitigate the luck, but a group of skilled and geared players can still average 4 floor jumps, in a 20 jump run, and lose.

Again, you're only suppose to win 40%~ of the runs at 20 floors. You think those other 60% of runs are just going to stop you when you reach 100 and tell you that you're not allowed to win? No. Theyre going to give you crap jumps and crap objectives the whole run. It's not luck because it's something that is expected to happen, 60% of the time. When it occurs more or less often than this, it would be luck. Unfortunately for you, by the time you finish getting 15/15 in Neo Nyzul your average win percentage will be exactly what the predicted estimate will be. So you can't call it luck. I don't know how many more ways I can say this.

[Fupafighter]

I think he still isn't winning lol. This is the guy that wants to bring red mage to nyzle. ANd red mage can keep on par with damage with a blue mage. Kaerin is right. I'm a prime example. I went with a group that knows what they're doing, and they do excellent at it, and they win. I went with my other 3 nyzle groups, and let's just say, it cannot be done with the way they play. It's not luck, it's skill. Luck is only a part of how the floors jump, as expected. Learn how to gear your jobs, hope to avoid order lamps if you are like me and play xbox, and hope to win. Keep trying and get better gear to compensate until you get your nyzle gear.

[Afania]

In either case the month long for 1 piece is off of the idea of doing 25 runs of floor 80 for a single 100 piece, which is much to long. Doing that is the only progressive style of rewards in NNI, as doing that is the only way you are nearly guaranteed some progress to getting a piece of gear, however if you lose trying to get to 100, there is no progress, only a loss, and when you try 100 more times, if you still don't make it to 100, there is still no more or less progress for a piece of gear.

Abyssea had progression for everything you did, Emps being a good example being that it always gave 1 item, with a chance at 2, you never killed a NM for an Emp and got nothing for it. This event is much more limiting on time, and much less rewarding for effort, as if you do not go all the way, you either wait a month for 1 piece of gear or you get nothing at all for attempting to make it to 100, and failing.

Luck based for NNI doesn't mean it's "bad", considering everything in MMO, or at least everything in FFXI are 99% luck based.
If you don't like luck based, then you may as well not play an MMO.

Say if 17 floor jump has 30% chance to win, and it's possible to do 100 17 floor jump run and still didn't hit F100 cuz you're extremely unlucky and get nothing, that's just same as doing dyna-xarc for 40 times and no RDM hat/THF hands drop and get nothing, or doing salvage 150 times and can't get that bee NM to pop from rampart, or killing HQ behemoth for 100 times and no Dring drop. NNI is not the only event that you get nothing when you have bad luck, so does VW, salvage, dyna, HNM, legion, limbus, Ein, and every single event that involved drop or nothing.

Does that means you make "no progress" when it doesn't drop? I'd say no, since every run you attempted that doesn't drop, you should treat it as an investment for a chance to get it. If you can't view it this way, then you may as well not to play drop based MMO since you will feel bad if it doesn't drop and you get nothing.

If the 17 floor jump has 30% win rate, then avg every 3 17 floor jump run you will get an 100. If Qilin dagger has 0.1% of drop rate, than avg 1000 Qilin kill can get you the dagger. So your goal is to do it as many times as possible. That's same as doing abyssea X amount of time to get the empy. Except the difference is you can't see your "progress" when your item doesn't drop. But every no drop run, it should be treated as a progress too. The difference between an empy farm and doing NNI for F100 gear is really only visible difference and that's it.

If you don't like invisible progress, doesn't like to invest a run for no drop, then all I can say is majority of game content in this game probably isn't for you, and you may as well play other MMO or just do Abyssea only. And gl finding a MMO that has 0 luck factor in it. Last time I checked, majority of popular MMO/RPGs are still luck based for everything.

[saevel]

I think he still isn't winning lol. This is the guy that wants to bring red mage to nyzle. ANd red mage can keep on par with damage with a blue mage. Kaerin is right. I'm a prime example. I went with a group that knows what they're doing, and they do excellent at it, and they win. I went with my other 3 nyzle groups, and let's just say, it cannot be done with the way they play. It's not luck, it's skill. Luck is only a part of how the floors jump, as expected. Learn how to gear your jobs, hope to avoid order lamps if you are like me and play xbox, and hope to win. Keep trying and get better gear to compensate until you get your nyzle gear.

Most of the "skill" involved is communication and coordination. Once your past that it's down to pure luck on how many 2~3 jump floors you get, or how stupid your objectives are.

Wish is talking out their 5th point of contact, he's the pole SCH, the one without secret ninja magic. Without secret ninja magic your talking less then 5% win rate, heck I'd say somewhere in the 1~2% win rate. Many floors are too big and running around with powder boots won't much help due to their activation time. When your talking ~80s or less average per floor, your not winning unless you get absolutely no c8ck blocks along the way.

So now only do you need a "perfect" run where you get nothing but 6+ jumps, you also need to not hit more then 1 floor boss while also not getting order lamps or any large floors.

... Yeah that ~could~ happen in theory. In all my NNI time I haven't seen it happen once, secret ninja magic just allows you to sustain a few c*ck blocks without blowing your run.

[Demon6324236]

I think he still isn't winning lol.
I myself haven't done NNI recently because I am making a new static with better people, and have been taking the time to make sure we have the right gear to get it done as best we can. In either case it has nothing to do with my complaint.
This is the guy that wants to bring red mage to nyzle. ANd red mage can keep on par with damage with a blue mage.This again... Heres an old post of mine from this thread a good... 25 pages ago.

Once again, if this event required skill, they would make the drops luck based like they used to be. Then we would be bitching our skill isn't giving us reward (VW). NO NO NO red mage CANNOT melee even close to as efficient as a heavy DD or a dnc nin thf mnk pup blu. They're an enfeebling master. That's what they're designed to do. So stop saying it can. I had a melee rdm, it didn't work. What do you seriously want them to do to this event? How the hell would they make it "skill based"? How would they make it "skill" based without making it extremely easy for the current setups of sch x2 4 heavy DD? YOu want them to make it so you can go in with 6 bst and clear content no problem and get the best gear in the game, using said "skill" of pressing 4 buttons. Or 6 red mages "meleeing" fodder mobs. So much skill right. Give me good suggestions and the dev team good suggestions on how not to break the event and make it too easy on 2 SCH 4 heavy DD setups while making it managable for other random job setups to do the event and I will be satisfied.

READ THIS


I am not saying necessarily my RDM should be able to do NNI (Don't get me wrong, I would like it to be able to, meleeing I tend to out damage most other LDDs and some HDDs and none of my other jobs beat it in damage) I'm saying something other than just 4HDDs & 2SCH should be able to. The fact they made it so limited is just flat out stupid, your excluding what is basically 75% of jobs from participation, I know everyone has the ease of getting anything they want to 99 in 1~5 days, but that doesn't make it right that everyone is be limited to 5 choices they might not even like or enjoy just to get some gear for a different job.

Lets look at that again...


I am not saying necessarily my RDM should be able to do NNI

Get your head out of your ass for 10 seconds and read my post and you might actually understand something! I said, many times, I do not expect RDM to do NNI, I understand it can't, you want to know 1 main reason above all else?Its not hard to read. Its fairly simple, not hard to grasp. It gets annoying that you take my words out of context every time this subject pops up and you feel like speaking out. In either case, I know how to do NNI, and already said I made a new static and am making sure the people in it are geared up for it. The point still stands, I could go win 15 runs in a row, starting today, and I wouldn't think any different, I would say I was lucky. I could go with a perfect 40/60% win/loss rate, still would say its luck.

If anyone can explain how the layout & contents of a floor, along with pathos, does not effect your run because your skilled, by all means, do. I however think that no matter how skilled you are, large floors, soulflayer floors, and bad jumps, are a massive screw over, not to mention when WS pathos pops up at the worst times, like NM floors, or boss floors.


Luck based for NNI doesn't mean it's "bad", considering everything in MMO, or at least everything in FFXI are 99% luck based.
If you don't like luck based, then you may as well not play an MMO.In most cases, luck is simple, its only 1 thing that is random that reflects your rewards, and the battle itself is normally put down to skill alone. NNI for you to win, you go through the luck part and will definitely get something if you win. The major difference here is skill doesn't pop up except to mitigate the luck, more luck, more floors you complete, more jumps you make, and thus better odds of winning because bad jumps or floors have less of a chance of stopping you cold.

[wish12oz]

Wish is talking out their 5th point of contact, he's the pole SCH, the one without secret ninja magic. Without secret ninja magic your talking less then 5% win rate, heck I'd say somewhere in the 1~2% win rate.

No, no, no, no, no. Did you even watch videos I posted beyond the first? 75% of the time I am not the rune SCH. My group has a 40% win rate without secret magic or any other BS excuse you're trying to claim. This event is simple: Good players win, Bad players don't. Become a good player and you will clear this content in a few weeks. My group clears 20 floors on average and won 7 and lost 9 or 10. Suck less, quit making excuses, etc.

Part 1: http://youtu.be/zfSsZS60DjI
Part 2: http://youtu.be/4Pd4FDemLOM

And Demon, youre just bad, I dont even care, suck less and you'll win, that simple.

[saevel]

I've already seen your vid's wish, their just you running around by yourself most of the time. Your group is running incredibly slow, at least on camera. The floors are so large that it takes ages to run to the bottom and get the last specified family, and god help you if you get kill all and it's that big. There are a number of things that spell instant fail. It's rather strange, of all the crying about NNI the ~ONLY~ "video" is a pole SCH running around by themselves claiming that their simply "better" then everyone else. Only way you have a 40% "win rate" is your melee's have attended the azure underwear school of secret ninja techniques.

Now what's really happening, your melee's are using secret ninja magic and lots of it. As one of the SCH's you don't need any of it, just powder boots. For lamps they will plant you at one and tell you when to fire it off cause they know the order.

You may be able to BS the pleebs out there, but having done a metric f*ck ton of NNI to get members of my LS gear I know your BSing. Most others who regularly do NNI know your BSing. We realize you don't want it nerfed as you and our group are most likely using it for mercing, and that would be bad for business.

[Sp1cyryan]

No, no, no, no, no. Did you even watch videos I posted beyond the first? 75% of the time I am not the rune SCH. My group has a 40% win rate without secret magic or any other BS excuse you're trying to claim. This event is simple: Good players win, Bad players don't. Become a good player and you will clear this content in a few weeks. My group clears 20 floors on average and won 7 and lost 9 or 10. Suck less, quit making excuses, etc.

Part 1: http://youtu.be/zfSsZS60DjI
Part 2: http://youtu.be/4Pd4FDemLOM

And Demon, youre just bad, I dont even care, suck less and you'll win, that simple.

Meh, it does not matter how good you are. Bad jumps will fuck the run up probably every one out of four or so runs regardless. There is too much luck involved. Nothing like clearing four two or three floor jumps in record time only to know you could have been at floor 20+ in shorter time with better jumps instead of floor 8 or 12.

That being said my group (SAM DRK WAR BLU SCH SCH) has about a 50%+ win rate with no movement cheating, powder boots, or any of that annoyance. In fact one member does not even have w legs for his DRK. Only had one night we did not win any runs. Lately it has been 2/3 wins with the loss always being in the 90s. We have lost on floor 99 more than any other floor.

I think most of the problem with people who can not win is that they have bad strategy, ordinary gear, and a lack of coordination. I save a lot of time by taking a room on all floors and AoEing it to death on BLU while everyone moves on to more mobs. IMO you gain more from VOIP than anything else. Being able to call out dead ends early, telling people to keep going because you will solo this mob, and verbally notifying direction for NMs, singles, and lamps shaves time off everywhere. Even for (dare I say it?) calling out skill chains. The WAR and I go one way on boss floors and the SAM and DRK the other way. When we find the NM I set up light with CDC and the WAR rape closes it with Ukon.

Nyzul is actually really easy even if the lamps could use adjustment IMO.The difficulty is solely in the random floor jumps.

[MarkovChain]

Only two right things in your post are the following :
*lamp floors completely suck
*being able to talk to others while playing increases your success rate.

So basically you are agreeing with all the comlaints so stop defending it. When the devs did post about nyzul they did say they wanted people to reach F80 if not too unlucky anf F100 if extremely lucky. Turns out this is not what is happening by any means. They also ajusted it so that you can either get F80 or 100. If at least we had the possiblility to go up after F80. You could easily imagine F80 being forced.